Forum: foot
Page 3888
Subject: RIFC - Regular Season Discussion #1

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Wed, Sep 08, 2004, 12:54
The season is almost upon us, and we might as well open up a new thread for in-season discussion.

I already swapped kickers, with Nedney getting injured prior to his opening game. I added Tynes.

I'm still worried about my RB situation. Suggs' status seems murky, but hopefully he'll be ready to play by Sunday. Also, my backup, Kevin Faulk, is already out for this week, although I wouldn't have started him anyway, since I would have to commit to that on Thursday.
 
1TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 08, 2004, 13:22 		I was just reading the news on Suggs:
News story
 
2Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 08, 2004, 13:34 		TB, in my draft last night I finished up by taking Gannon (I have Favre and Brad Johnson). I really wanted to keep him, but I didn't take a kicker so I waived Gannon this morning and also picked up Tynes. I have too many good bench players to drop anyone else. Hated to do it.

Incidentally, Tynes went to high school and lives about 30 minutes away from me, in Milton, FL. I had no idea there were any good kickers from this area. We've had WR's (E.G. Green), QB's (Danny Wuerful), and RB's (Emmitt Smith). Kind of funny actually. He was born in Scotland (I'm not making this stuff up).
 
3TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 08, 2004, 13:56 		You have got to get over Brad Johnson, even though I have to admit he is a safer pick than Gannon. Let me ask, how many roto style teams do you have this year? How many of those teams have either Henry or B. Johnson? How many have both?
 
4Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 08, 2004, 14:09 		Hahaha.

I have Henry on 3 of 4 (almost got him on the 4th, but he got swiped 2 picks before my second round choice).

I also have Brad Johnson on 3 of 4. He is the backup on all 4 teams. Tom, go look at his numbers last year. He was the 10th best QB in Exit42. I have him backing up Garcia on one Exit42 team (more like co-starters) and he's backing up Favre on the other. And in RIFC he's backing up Pennington. Tell me you wouldn't love him as a backup. Come on.

The same 3 teams have Henry and Johnson. Obviously I had them ranked higher than many people did.

In my money league, I have neither, which I believe is to my detriment. But in that league I have LT, Martin, Dunn, Barber, Fargas, William Green, and Onterrio for RB's and Trent Green and Garcia for QB's. I think I'll survive.
 
5TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 00:40 		I am a little concerned with Fanball accurately tracking IDP scoring. Doesn't look they have it together for this first game. It has bugged me that they list Cato June as a DB. When you click on any IDP's name, it doesn't list available defensive players on their team like it does if you click on an offensive player. I wonder if this is their first season scoring IDP?

Culdeus and Taxmen in a regular Texas shootout.
 
6Challenger
      Donor
      ID: 481126818
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 01:45 		Yup, IDP points have disappeared from live scoring. During the game they were there and accurate. Is TSN involved in this?!!?
 
7Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 10:36 		This is their first year scoring IDP. I'm sure they'll get the bugs worked out.
 
8TB
      Leader
      ID: 31811922
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 11:13 		I noticed they had some IDP scoring during the game, but it was not accurate. They never did have any scoring for June, not that he had a lot, but he did have a couple tackles.
 
9Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 13:59 		Crap! I had thought I'd set my lineups after the draft, but in checking for interim scoring I find I'm going to start 0-2. There goes my season.
 
10Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 14:00 		PD - you can still set your lineups. You have up to 5 minutes before game time for each slot.
 
11Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 14:07 		Ah, OK. I was not seeing an option for moving bench players to starters (hence, my despair), but I've found it now. Thanks.
 
12Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 14:38 		For the first week, I decided to simply start my top three receivers (by draft pick) for each of the doubleheader games, even though I do consider Wayne(#3) and Branch(#4) to be similarly susceptible to on and off weeks. After last night, I'm already wishing I had split those two. Wayne didn't get as many looks in the 2nd half, although he did have one thrown to him in the end zone that resulted in pass interference against the Pats. Had he hauled that one in, he'd have essentially matched Branch in points.

Going forward, I'll probably be inclined to split those 2 receivers unless I have a strong opinion.
 
13Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 14:52 		Guru, I have Wayne in another league, so I was watching him intently last night. I counted many passes thrown in his direction. I belive it was about 9. I was so bummed when he didn't come down with that TD in the first half (Assante Samuel played great on that play).

I just looked up the gamebook on NFL.com. Manning threw to Wayne 8 times last night. If he catches half of those passes, we're talking about what a great night he had. Plus, those were some of the longer throws. Harrison was getting the underneath stuff. Stokley looked like a pinball last night. He was bouncing all over the field.
 
14culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 18:16 		Not sure if anyone saw my post on the site earlier today. Looks like fanball is allowing for blind bidding, a great (IMO perfect) solution to all the waiver issues.

From earlier post

I know it's late but the more I started looking at the WCOFF system the more I fell in love with it. It solves all the problems of waiver order problems easily and everyone has a shot at the players the first week.

Plenty of people have bad first weeks and then get a shot at the Boldin's of the world only to come on strong late with the extra juice they picked up by having a bad week at the right time (Week1). If the spare teams need an extra guy they just know they'll have to bid more to get them.

In my pay league last year a 2-12 team every week would pickup the backup RB du jour after injuries or whatever happened try to trade them to the injury recipient and then drop perfectly servicable backups to have them snatched up as FA. Instead of making this automatic it makes you think about what you are doing and how valuable it is to you.

It's probably too late but we really haven't had a waiver period yet.

If someone could move this to guru's site I'd appreciate it.
 
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 21:27 		I'm amenable to the change, but it needs to be approved by a majority of the rest of the managers.
 
16Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 21:31 		Guru, I just noticed this on the site:

Your league's trial period ends on Wednesday 9/22/2004.

fyi
 
17Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 21:35 		Yup. I have to pay by then. No problem.

We have until 9/22 to use the site for free, so I took advantage of it.
 
18The Beezer
      Leader
      ID: 191202817
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 23:19 		Question for the RIFC and RQFL #2 since they are using doubleheaders...

How is the total points calculation being done to determine the #7 and #8 playoff seeds? If it's just starters, then since a different lineup can be set for each game of the doubleheader, is this the highest of the two scores, or is there a different rule used here instead? Hopefully I just missed something that makes this obvious. Thanks.
 
19Ender
      ID: 0442215
      Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 23:29 		Fair question and perhaps Guru will give the authoritative word, but I took it to mean the cumulative score of each game. It seems like the simplest way to do it and accounts for different lineups for each game. You simply get the combined score of both games for the week. Your total points is then the sum of your weekly scores.
 
20Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Sep 11, 2004, 09:23 		Yes, total points for all 26 games.
 
21The Beezer
      Leader
      ID: 191202817
      Sat, Sep 11, 2004, 09:43 		Thanks - that is a good solution that I hadn't thought of.
 
22TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Sat, Sep 11, 2004, 19:38 		IDP scoring still iffy.
C. June: 2 tackles and 2 asst should be 3 points
R. Harrison 3 tackles, 4 asst should be 5 points

Didn't check any others, but whoever has Zach Thomas is probably pretty happy. =)
 
23Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Sun, Sep 12, 2004, 08:51 		They seem to have alot of IDP scores up now, TB. Have you checked back in?
 
24TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Sun, Sep 12, 2004, 10:43 		Yeah, they show Cato with 2 points and Harrison with 9 points....lol
 
26Ender
      ID: 0442215
      Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 00:51 		The IDP thing is a tad aggravating. I know it's iffy on Sundays because that has been my past experience, but NFL.com's stats seem to be pretty safe so how come they don't use them?

I'll withhold any further comments until I know exactly how I did this week ;) There were some truly studly performances to start the season.
 
27TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 01:47 		Yes, there were. Too bad none of them were on any of my teams. =)
 
28Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 10:24 		Some of the IDP scores I have checked appear to be OK, although many are not, and they all seem to be due to incorrect stat reporting. I can't detect any pattern. And obviously, I don't know whether the problem is with their feeds (from Stats, Inc.) or with their processing.

I did find a formula problem. I had neglected to change the fumble scoring for IDPs to include 1 pt for a forced fumble and 1 pt for a fumble recovered. I just made that correction, and it seems to be reflected properly now. Hopefully, there aren't any other commissioner input errors.

Some players are still not being detected. For example, my kicker is Tynes, who is being shown with zero points. If I click on the game link, I can see his stats listed, but he doesn't appear to be properly linked to the guy on my roster. Does anyone else have players on their roster who appear to be missing stats altogether?

Are there any other apparent glitches that we need to be aware of?
 
29culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 13:36 		Yeah, it didn't have my kicker every time either. But it appears to add the score in anyway, hand add your points up and compare it to the total. Mine was higher by what my K should have had. It's showing my K now so I think they have fixed it.
 
30culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 22:31 		One thing I'm starting to dislike about the doubleheaders.


I know now I'll have 33% more chance of caring about the outcome of the MNF game.
 
31Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 11:12 		Week 1 standings are now posted at Fanball. Please check you player totals and report any apparent errors.
 
32Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 11:44 		Also, just to clarify - waivers are scheduled to be processed at noon ET tomorrow (Wednesday). Free agent pickups become available at 1pm.

All dropped players go on waivers for a 48 hour period. All other unclaimed players should be free agents at 1pm.
 
33Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 12:15 		Guru,

I am going in to set my waiver request list, and I get this message:

Waiver Wire
There are no players currently on waivers.
 
34Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 12:20 		nevermind

Working fine now.
 
35culdeus
      ID: 26856146
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 15:56 		What did you do to see the list MC?
 
36Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 16:05 		I haven't yet figured out how to submit a waiver claim. Can anyone help?
 
37leggestand
      Sustainer
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 16:11 		1. Go to "Claims" in the transaction box on the left of the screen
2. Go to "Create/Edit Your Claiming System Requests"
3. Click on "Go to Claim list A" in the drop down box
4. Pick the player you want to add/drop

I think that should be it.
 
38Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 14, 2004, 16:18 		Aha!

Technically, I guess we are not really placing a waiver wire claim, we are placing a free agent claim.

If a player is dropped, he goes on waivers, and is then subject to a separate waiver wire claim.
 
39TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 15:46 		Do we have an IR slot?
 
40Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 15, 2004, 15:47 		Nope.
 
41leggestand
      Sustainer
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 10:04 		This question could have a very simple answer, but I don't have a clue where to find it:

On the "Set Lineup" page, in the place where you put active or bench, there is a column called:

Vs P/R

Does anyone know what this means?
 
42deepsnapper
      ID: 15843714
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 11:17 		leggestang - vs P/R = Opponent defense vs pass/run

I'm on a short leash for the next couple of months with my eyes and the PC, I'm scheduled for surgery next Thursday (Vitrectomy). Right eye in May, Left one now. Glad I've run out of eyes for the doc to poke holes in! lol

Watch out after Thanksgiving though` ;)
 
43leggestand
      Sustainer
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 11:26 		Thanks deep, and good luck with your surgery.
 
44Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 19:49 		I've assembled a basic page of league standings and roster data. While those of us in the league can see all of this info (and more) at the game site, this page provides a public snapshot of our results. My plan would be to update this several times per week, after the standings are updated, after waiver claims, and shortly before game time.

I want to do a little more cosmetic touch up, but I think this provides the basic info that I want to make available. Let me know if you think of anything I should add or adjust.

I'd also plan to archive weekly snapshots, so that we can look back to prior weeks as the season progresses, if desired.
 
45Challenger
      Donor
      ID: 481126818
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 21:56 		Looks good Guru


Interesting schedule this week - There should be 2 less undefeated teams this week, barring tie(s).

Guru vs Sludge
culdeus vs Challenger

(The only current undefeated teams)
 
46Sludge
      ID: 278591212
      Thu, Sep 16, 2004, 22:06 		Great page, Guru.

It looks like the lightbulb is growing out of the football player's head, though. At first I thought it was intentional. :)
 
47GoatLocker
      ID: 128491910
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 18:16 		Anybody able to get into FanBall Commissioner this afternoon?
All I keep getting is a message saying it is down for maintenance.
Can get into Exit 42 okay, just not commissioner.

Cliff
 
48Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 18:21 		No good for me either--getting the "regular maintenance" page.
 
49GoatLocker
      ID: 128491910
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 18:23 		Just got in for the first time in about 5 hours or so.
Just kept refreshing.

Cliff
 
50culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 20:22 		Man I need Bennett back, and fast.

Looks like no undefeated teams will be left after this week.
 
51Challenger
      Donor
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 20:38 		I managed to get into the scoring page about once every 30 minutes or so. Wish I hadn't this last time as PD somehow piled on alot of points in those 30 minutes.

Btw, my rationale of Keyshawn's attitude was right on! Last week 9 catches, no tds. This week 2 catches only as he disappeared in the 2nd half. On his 1st catch he was stopped at the one yard line and the next play was a pass td to a TE. Tv cameras showed Keyshawn not celebrating the TE's td pass reception, but with a not so happy face as they went off the field, IMHO. (maybe Key was tired already)
 
52Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 21:58 		Culdeus...

How could Graham have 2.1 points after scoring 2 touchdowns??
 
53culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 22:05 		Good question, I just noticed that on the FBG main page.

I don't think any FFL site is devoid of problems, we had lots of issues last week in my ESPN league with the mis-timed waiver wire.
 
54culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Sun, Sep 19, 2004, 22:15 		You missed some key, key things probably. I was at the game and watched him virtually break down crying as he came off the field before the TD was thrown to the deepsnapper. He was slinging his helmet and shouting loudly and did not watch the next play.

Then later in the game he caught a ball at the 10 or 15 and was late hit. This was on 3rd down and he was shy of the first by 2 or 3 yards, got up and shoved the guy a little too long even though a flag was thrown right between them for the late hit which would be a first down. Offsetting penalties, Field Goal. Thanks jerk.

Of course he spends the next 2 minutes pleading his case to the disaffected tuna.
 
55Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 00:44 		They played Tuna's talking to Keyshawn. Basically, it boiled down to "FU" and "Shut. Your. Mouth."

Went with Carson over Hasselback this week, which might just cost me the game against Culdeus.

pd
 
56TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 01:05 		I am not having the best luck with injuries so far. I think I might go 1-1 again this week, but need to stay away from the injury bugs for a while.
 
57culdeus
      ID: 26856146
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 07:25 		Graham still at 2 points.....
 
58culdeus
      ID: 26856146
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 07:43
Posted on FBG


This is on RTSport's home page:

"Unhappy with Fanball or CBS ? You don't have to stick it out with a service you don't like. Give us your fantasy football account ID from a competitor and we will convert your league! Its not too late to switch, we will compute your scores and stats back to week 1. Call us up, we will take care of you!"

Looks like the word is out...
 
59Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 09:02 		Where do we stand with Fanball then?

I'll be honest, I CAN'T STAND the interface. NOTHING is as simple as it could be. The live scoring link takes you to a page where you have to choose live scoring again! If that's not what I wanted then why did I click the link the first time?
 
60Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 09:15 		Also, Taxman added Bryce Fisher (DL, STL) at 12:27. Is that EST so it was before games started? Is that why he was able to do it? If it was not EST then how was it possible?

I'm sure it must be EST and that explains it, I'm just double-checking our free agent/waiver process and timing. All players go on waivers at kickoff of the first game, correct? (Or is it kickoff of their respective games?)
 
61Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 09:49 		I had a similar problem with D. Davis last week. He was missing his TD points for awhile on the live scoring page, but they finally returned.

Anyone else notice any scoring errors so far(other than Graham)?
 
62Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 09:57 		Ender - I'll agree that the interface is not ideal, but I'm certainly not going to switch sites because of an annoying interface.

All times seem to be reported in Eastern time, so the pickup was OK. When a game starts, players from that game are frozen. They are not technically placed on waivers, but they cannot be added at that time, and are subject to the free agent claiming process the following Wednesday.

I have not yet paid for the league, but must make a decision by Wednesday. At this point, I haven't seen any issues that would make me want to go to the hassle of switching services. I think the headaches would be significant, and I suspect we would have trouble finding a "safe" alternative that offered all of the same features.
 
63Toral
      ID: 22731114
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 09:59 		A question -- how much time elapses in RIFC between making a trade and having it be official? In RQFL#1 it is 48 hours, and I wonder if we have the same setting.

Toral
 
64Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 10:12 		It can be as much as 48 hours. Managers have 24 hours to challenge a trade. If there are not at least 3 objections within 24 hours, then the trade can go through at that time. If there are three or more objections. then the league votes over the following 24 hours, and the trade (if not rejected) would be approved after 48 hours from inception.

I suppose we could require that all trades (including those without objection) would still be in stasis for 48 hours, but this was never explicitly discussed. So, as it stands now, trades without objection go through in 24 hours, trades subject to a vote require a 48 hour wait.
 
65Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 12:41 		No problem then (on either count).

I wouldn't switch simply because of the interface at this point either. I was wondering if anyone had any other problems since we are getting close to the time to fully committ. I'll tough it out, but won't recommend the site for future leagues.
 
66culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 13:36 		They seemed to have fixed Graham, I need McNabb to go <8pts to go to 4-0. I can dream can't I?
 
67Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 15:39 		Just posted at the Fanball site:
Live Scoring Update

Last Sunday, Fanball Commissioner suffered its first significant live scoring failure since the first week of 2002—34 NFL regular season weeks. We recognize the important role that live scoring plays in the enjoyment of fantasy football, and apologize for the technology failure.

Fanball Commissioner has grown dramatically in the past year, and we’re working hard to meet the needs of our growing clientele. Between now and next Sunday, Fanball’s technical team will be focused on delivering a great game day experience for your league.

The trial period for your league has been extended by one week so you can be assured that our Live Scoring component has returned to the stability our customers are used to experiencing.
 
68Sludge
      ID: 278591212
      Mon, Sep 20, 2004, 23:45 		I need an Onterrio Smith or Wiggins fumble returned for a TD! C'mon Philly!
 
69Sludge
      ID: 278591212
      Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 00:22 		Oh well. I feel very fortunate to be 3-1. Given that points scored may be important for returning last year, I'm glad I broke 100 on both teams, especially with my WR having a sub-par week (understatement).

PD 117.68 to Challenger 117.80. Wow! That's going to come down to stat adjustments.
 
70Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 12:19 		So who has the worst injury problems? I'm going to be without Heap and Cowart for a few weeks, but I suspect there are others with bigger holes to plug.

On the surface, TB seems to have the biggest impact, with both McAllister and Steve Smith. Can anyone top that?
 
71TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 12:29 		I also cut Galloway and his hamstring problems. Losing my #1 RB and #1 WR (two of my first three draft choices) is enough misery. I would like to apologize to family, friends, and fans of both of those players. I should have never posted my projected point stuff in the recap thread. I really hexed my team.
 
72TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Tue, Sep 21, 2004, 13:05 		I played fanball last year and loved their site. I still like the interface that it uses for exit 42 leagues, but am not a fan of this fanball commissioner interface. It is taking forever to set up my waiver claims too.
 
73Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 12:46 		15 claims processed this week. Lots of activity.
 
74Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 14:34 		Man, what a pain that system is. I went in this morning and tried to set up a claim for Caldwell and was told I couldn't. I wish the setup was the same as for Exit42. They really ought to simplify things a little on the Commsioner website.
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 14:40 		I didn't have any trouble setting up claims. I actually thought the process was pretty simple.
 
76culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 17:48 		Considering my 1st and 2nd round picks are both probably out this week I think I pretty much win.

 
77culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 17:52 		How come the waiver claim order stays the same during the week even though some people didn't get in the first round of claims? This is pretty irregular. I've never been in a league where the order didn't roll up at least after the first claims are processed.
 
78Sludge
      ID: 54692111
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 18:07 		Considering my 1st and 2nd round picks are both probably out this week I think I pretty much win.

Considering my history of fielding teams that seem to seriously underperform when going against a short-handed team (either due to injuries or byes), you'll probably win at least one of your games.
 
79Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 18:09 		It is supposed to roll up. Evidently, I can override the current order, and I'll try to figure out how to do that before the current waiver players clear.

Then I'll file a trouble ticket.
 
80Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 18:12 		It looks like the waiver claim is the same as the original free agent claim listing. I noticed that last week in RIQFL#2 and set it so that it matched the free agent claim listing and am planning on doing so throughout the year. I don't know why the two are different.
 
81Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 18:58 		It appears that the free agent claim priority system and the waiver claim priority system are not integrated. So movement in one does not translate to the other. Rather odd.

So I just reset the waiver order to manually integrate the two. As Trip mentions, I guess I'll have to diary myself to do this each week after free agent claims are processed.
 
82TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 19:48 		The standings show me 6th from the bottom and claims said I was 6th for the week when I was setting it up. I look at the order the claims were processed and they were all processed worst to first. Some of us had more than one claim and they stayed in order.

Fanball resets the waiver claim order weekly based on current standings.
 
83culdeus
      Leader
      ID: 43105818
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 19:55 		So that could mean I missed out on one of my two claims I submitted, great.
 
84TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 20:45 		I don't see any claims made by your team ,but I do not see how fanball resetting the waiver priority for the worst teams would prevent you from setting up a claim.

This week I had an A, B and C claim.

A claim listed 6 RB's for Smith.

B claim listed 3 players for Cato June. The first choice was taken by someone else. Pittman was my second choice and Dawson was my third choice.

C claim was Dawson for Foreman.

I set it up this way because A) I need RB help and Smith had to go. With a WP of 6, I knew I would get one of the backs I wanted by making 6 choices. B) Only 3 more players I wanted after my first claim. C) I had Dawson as my third choice for June and the only choice for Foreman. If Pittman was already gone, it would have grabbed Dawson for June and would have cancelled my C claim.
 
85Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 22, 2004, 23:05 		culdeus [83] - I don't understand what you think went wrong. As far as I can tell, all free agent claims were properly processed. The only issue was that I had to resequence the priorities for any subsequent waiver claims this week. But the claim processing priorities worked as I expected.
 
86culdeus
      ID: 588262316
      Thu, Sep 23, 2004, 17:29 		Looks to me the 1st guy got all his claime, then it cycled down one by one instead of resetting the order. I'm not sure if it would have made it to me but I'm suspect of it running them right.

Will the order be corrected for the second cycle this week?
 
88Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Sep 23, 2004, 18:03 		culdeus[86] - I was able to audit the entire claim process, and the reported sequence of claims worked as it was supposed to. According to the records, you submitted no claims. Did you think you submitted a claim?

If you look at this page, you can see the sequence that claims were awarded. Once a team had a claim filled, it moved to the bottom of the priority list, and the next team was up. After all teams had a chance to have one claim process, the cycle repeated.

Why do you think the processing was done incorrectly? I certainly don't have any evidence to support this.
 
89Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Sep 26, 2004, 16:41 		I evidently forgot to activate Reggie Wayne and bench Deion Branch (byw week) for my second lineup. Ugh. What a doofus!
 
90GoatLocker
      ID: 128491910
      Sun, Sep 26, 2004, 17:42 		Couple of really close games this week.

Cliff
 
91culdeus
      ID: 588262316
      Sun, Sep 26, 2004, 21:31 		I was in doubt, I did submit an "A" claim for a couple of guys and I guess I didn't do it right. I was suspect that if it didn't rotate the order at the end then it wouldn't have done it while it processed the claims.

Ugh, this week was horrible for me. No claim would have pulled me out of the gutter.
 
92Sludge
      ID: 54692111
      Mon, Sep 27, 2004, 13:47 		Re: 89

Looks like the bye week bug bit PD as well.
 
93Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 27, 2004, 14:00 		The sad thing is that I was attentive to getting my other bye week players addressed. I simply thought I had switched Wayne with Branch earlier in the week, and evidently neglected to pay attention when I was working on the other slots. At least I was blown out in the game I screwed up, so it's not too harmful. I'd have lost anyway, even with the extra 25 points from Wayne. Hopefully, that point deficiency won't keep me out of the last playoff slot at the end of the regular season.

I had a similar issue on another team this weekend, where I thought I had benched Rudi Johnson in favor of Thomas Jones, but evidently didn't complete the move. Again, that oversight turned out not to matter in this week's W/L result. But it still troubles me.

Finally, in a survivor pool, I selected Arizona this week instead of Atlanta. I think I had "Pick the Loser" on the brain.

I suspect that dementia cannot be dismissed as the explanatory factor.
 
94Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 12:58 		I pulled out a squeaker this weekend. Thanks to Mötley for leaving Wheatley on the bench instead of Green or Barlow. That was the difference maker. (Sometimes, I guess it helps to be short-staffed and have no choices!)

I paid for the league this morning. I couldn't see any reason not to continue, in spite of some irritations. We'll revisit the whole site issue again next year.

So far, doubleheaders have hurt me. If we had used a standard schedule without DHs, it would have been the game 1 schedule. I'm 3-0 in those games, but 1-2 in the 2nd game.

Frankly, I don't think my team is a 3-0 team, and in that regard, the DH scheduling is probably producing a more deserving record. Even so, I wouldn't mind being 3-0.

Next week I'm in trouble. Culpepper has a bye, so I get to start McCown. Aye carumba! Early congrats to Ender and Challenger, who can probably coast this weekend.
 
95Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 13:07 		So far I like the doubleheaders. I took it on the chin this week due to serious bye week issues that I created for myself. I could have drafted differently to prevent it, but I'll stand by my team and now I don't have to worry about the bye at RB the rest of the season (barring injury).

I won't take anything for granted, Guru, but I gotta like not facing Culpepper.
 
96Sludge
      ID: 54692111
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 13:44 		It would be an understatement to say that I'm happy with the performance of my team thus far. It's only 3 weeks, though, and I can't count any chickens yet. Having said that, however, my WR corps has been dissapointing, but Thomas Jones has picked up the slack. (I'm not regretting passing over Owens... yet.) I've also finally had some luck with TE, which is rare for me.

This week might be brutal, though, going up against Challenger. I just wish he was one short on RB instead of WR. On any given week, Bruce and Muhammad can do the work of 3 decent WR by themselves.
 
97TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 14:01 		MC and Deepsnapper, I sent out a trade offer. If you counter, I don't think I will be back online until Thursday.
 
98Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 14:43 		TB, thanks but no. I may get around to a counter this week. God knows why you want to trade with the 0-6 team, but anyway...

I lost both games this week by a combined 2.3 points. That is the definition of the word "suck".

My reward? I get to play sludge and culdeus this weekend. Joy.

If someone wants to trade me a Top 15 WR for Tony Gonzalez, I will seriously consider it right now. That is, Top 15 draft status, not points (no, I don't want Stokely for Gonzo).
 
99TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 14:46 		I sent another one.
 
100leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 15:21 		MC, Tough luck man. I knew that Coles needed 44 yards for you to beat me, and he ended up with only 42 (out of Brunell's 325 passing yards!).

Garcia is killing my team, and it looks like Delhomme will be my starter now. My RB's have performed well (really Alexander carries my team), but I am still waiting on Porter and Price to wake up at WR.

The next six weeks should be interesting as people have to play their bench players, and hardly anyone has a deep bench.
 
101Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 15:58 		legge,

I know. I was listening to the game while surfing the net and I kept hearing them say "Pass intended for Coles--bounced off his chest."

Boy, what a louse.
 
102Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 22:34 		A trade has been agreed to by the two parties.

TB offers:
RB Ron Dayne, NYG
WR Amani Toomer, NYG

To receive from Flower Mound Cowboys (deepsnapper):
RB Aaron Stecker, NO
WR Plaxico Burress, PIT

If three managers object within the next 24 hours (by 8:24 ET Wednesday night), then the trade will be put to a vote. Otherwise, it will be automatically approved.

 
103Challenger
      Donor
      ID: 481126818
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 01:44 		Objection - Dayne has a calf injury to unknown extent at this time.

Dayne worried over calf injury
 
104TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 02:24 		I didn't know there were any issues with Dayne, other than he has sucked. =)

If Roy has a concern over this or if it even comes up to a vote, please just cancel the trade and I will offer Toomer for Stecker straight up or replace Dayne with A-Train. Dayne was just a toss-in for some RB depth so he wasn't down to 3 RB.

I will call Roy tomorrow and have him post his thoughts.
 
105Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 08:22 		Yeah, well Dayne sucking gets cancelled out by Burress really sucking. And Plaxico is on the field for 70% of the offense's plays.

This seems fair to me. I mean, it's a couple of bottom feeding players, really. The only player I can see having any impact at all is Toomer, and TB is giving him up. Of course, we all know how my powers of prognostication work out...
 
106Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 12:24 		19 free agent claims today. Every team except for Perm Dude picked up at least one player. Six teams picked up two players.
 
107Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 13:19 		Yeah, I'm slow on the draw in the FA market! Just made a move a few minutes ago.
 
108Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 13:25 		legge,

I just offered you a trade. Let me know what you think.

Guru,
So have you completely lost interest in Hollings and Green?
 
109leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 14:00 		MC, counteroffer sent (via email).
 
110Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 14:30 		Hmmm, I'll have to think about this a little more, leggestand.
 
111leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 14:36 		Sounds good. I don't want to scare you off with my offer, since it did have quite a few big names involved. But, with a little elbow grease, we may be able to work out a deal dreams are made of.
 
112Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 09:02 		legge,

I just made another offer.

//MC
 
113deepsnapper
      ID: 15843714
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 09:47 		I agreed to the 4 player trade with TB and accepted Dayne knowing he was an insurance pick in the event I needed a 4th RB down the road. Dayne isn't a big deal in any event. I thought it balanced out the Toomer/Stecker trade more as Stecker won't be fulltime once Deuce comes back and Plaxico has more value than Dayne in the long run.

Guru can cancel it out and we can make it a Toomer for Stecker if that's what everyone wants. Tom and I don't really care. We were just trying to balance the overall trade value long term.

Sorry I've been offline. I had the Vitrectomy eye surgery last Thursday and between the stitches from the incisions, the eye drops and all the pain pills, I can't do any "close" vision work for another week or so. Everythings a pretty big blur at the moment. TV viewing fine though so I get to watch all the games. lol
 
114Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 09:57 		We had only one objection registered, so I see no reason to not to allow the trade to go through.

Motley, I'm not totally disinterested in Hollings or Green, but so far our conversations have given me no reason to suspect that we can find a middle ground. If I give up a starting WR, then I'm hurting there. I think I may simply need to throw caution to the wind and hope that I can continue to find two healthy bodies at RB from within.

 
115leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 14:38 		I don't know if you're around MC, but I have sent you another offer. Haven't heard from you in a while, so, I am just making sure you got it.
 
116Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 15:14 		I was out all day. I got it, and countered just now.
 
117Challenger
      ID: 29914120
      Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 10:16 		Guru,

I was going over the rules looking to see if we set trading deadline, we did, and noticed this:

Starting Playoff Week

Your league does not have a starting playoff week.

 
118Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 02, 2004, 10:25 		Good catch. I just set it.
 
119Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Fri, Oct 08, 2004, 00:23 		Very quiet league so far, so here are some idle (shallow) thoughts...

It is often better to be lucky than good.
The Guru took a double loss last week by 7 and 12 points changing a 6-2 record to 4-4.


Several of us have consistantly avoided games against other managers who have put up high scores in our matchs. It is as important for your opponet to not score big as it is for your team to rack up the points.

CanEHdian Pride, Sludge and Ender join me in poaching activities with the lowest PA (points against)to date. For me that changes with games against the grumpy old navy guy and CanEHdian, #1 and #5 in PF (points for). Ender catches the other CanEHdian game and Sludge, but Sludge's other game is with Legstand, who may have bye week problems and not be able to put up a big score.


It should be very interesting to see how the next few weeks play out as byes and injuries start shaping the league standings.


 
120GoatLocker
      ID: 128491910
      Fri, Oct 08, 2004, 01:39 		Grumpy old navy guy.
Now I think I've been called just about everything.

Should be a good week.
Lots of important games that will drive the standings.

Cliff
 
121Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 09, 2004, 17:19 		culdeus - I noticed that you don't have a DL in your starting lineup for tomorrow, which makes your current lineup invalid. Your only DL is on your bench.

Don't get caught invalid!
 
123Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Oct 10, 2004, 07:44 		Sorry, not getting involved in another league's brouhaha.

(Actually, I'm not sorry at all!)
 
124leggestand
      ID: 56811718
      Sun, Oct 10, 2004, 08:41 		Hey MC, I have been on vacation for the past 5 days, so, I just saw your trade offer (and subsequent cancellation). I actually would probably make that trade, and, if the offer is still available next week, let me know. Sorry to not get back to you sooner.
 
125Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Sun, Oct 10, 2004, 16:39 		Guru...would you please review my roster next week also. I see where I started Onterrio Smith in my 2nd game this week :(
 
126 deepsnapper
      ID: 15843714
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 13:37 		I'm back from the world of the cane tappers. I'm happy to say I'm off the steroid sauce and Limbaugh cocktail too which helps for a more normal day. ;)

The left eye's going to be a little blurry for a while, but everything looks great, so I'll be keeping my eyes on you guys for the rest of the way. lol
 
127Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 14:03 		The left eye's going to be a little blurry for a while, but everything looks great, so I'll be keeping my eyes on you guys for the rest of the way.

Sounds like a metaphor for John Kerry....

:)


Looks like I came from behind (way behind in one contest) to go 2-0 this week. I really needed it after my lineup fiasco last week.
 
128GoatLocker
      ID: 427272213
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 23:10 		Need a good 2nd half from McNair and Bennet to get me by Tax and help me go to 2-0 for the weekend.
Go Tennessee.

Cliff
 
129TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 23:22 		I have been struggling to catch a break. Zereoue killed me last week and it looks like the Ravens D and Culpepper are the chief culprits in the two beatings I took this week. The good news is that it looks like Deuce is back.
 
130GoatLocker
      ID: 427272213
      Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 00:52 		Guess I'll take the 1-1.
Oh well, that's what happens.

Cliff
 
131Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 10:43 		deepsnapper, glad to hear the rough part is over. Do they expect your left eye to return to normal vision?
 
132culdeus
      ID: 469351211
      Tue, Oct 12, 2004, 13:42 		Ugh, an invalid lineup wouldn't have helped any more. I was waiting for the second round waivers to clear to try to get another DL.

When is this season over with?
 
133Taxman
      ID: 34919127
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 01:08 		Old grumpy guys shouldn't get so far ahead.

With 6 minutes left in Monday night's slaughter you had our match by 3 points, but then GB went back to Ferguson and McNair started handing off. Whew.
 
134Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 08:46 		GoatLocker was apparently very shrewd by skipping his first round draft pick and then letting us stick him with Tiki Barber after the first 2 rounds were done.
 
135Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:23 		I was thinking about that other day. And Terrel Owens, too!!
 
136leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:27 		MC, Trade offer sent your way again.

Trade talks part deux.
 
137 Motley Crue
      Leader
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:31 		legge,

New rules here at work: no more Fanball access or webmail.

If you want to e-mail me at the linked address, we can talk that way.
 
138leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:41 		Sounds good...email sent.
 
139GoatLocker
      ID: 427272213
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:22 		I was thinking exactly the same thought also on the draft.
Of course, I would like to think that the rest of my draft also has had something to do with how things are going.

Tax,
The moment the Titans got that far ahead, I figured I was in trouble and you would win it.

Oh well, we will meet again.

Cliff
 
140TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:13 		Are defensive players getting points for return yards in our league?
 
141Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:14 		No.
 
142TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:29 		I didn't think so, but am wondering how defensive players (mainly DB's) have odd scores like 12.76 or 7.10 for a week?

I am looking at the top scorer, Terrence McGee, who has 25 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack, and 3 passes defensed. That should be 30.5 points but he has 49.94. Where did he get the rest of his points from?
 
143TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:32 		He has 366 yards in kick returns which would be 13.44 points and a kickoff return TD which would be the other six points.
 
144TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:46 		Phillip Buchanon has 18 tackles, 7 assists, .5 sack, 3 pd, 2 int, 1 td, and 1 fr. That equals 36.5 points. His total points value is 41.70. He has 52 yards in punt returns which would be the other 5.2 points.
 
145TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 00:56 		Four posts in a row for me, but this one is about offering a RB for trade. With Rudi Johnson past his bye week, Duece healthy and having Stecker handcuffed in case he goes down again, I can afford to trade Pittman. He has knocked the rust off and should be a good 2nd RB for teams that find themselves lacking two good starters. I looked at teams to see who had a need and where I could improve my team. I even thought about the possibility of trading Deuce and keeping Pittman. The only problem with me trading either player right now is their perceived value/selling low.

I guess I just wanted to post this to see if their was any interest and maybe working a deal from there.
 
146Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:09 		Hey, TB, thanks for calling out my player. Let me see if I can dig up any dirt on your players now. ; )

leggestand and I just agreed to a trade, and I wanted to announce it here in case people aren't checking e-mail. Need it to go through in the 24-48 hour window so we can set lineups for Sunday.

I'm giving him TE Tony Gonzalez KAN.

He's giving me WR Porter OAK and WR Peerless Price ATL.
 
147Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:10 		Regarding IDP getting points for kick and punt returns.

The rules state that they do not get those points. In fact, when I set up the league, I wanted IDP to earn return points, but there was no option for that. When I inquired at the site, I was told it was not an option.

However, based on TB's analysis, it seems that they are, indeed, earning those points - and apparently have been since week #1.

So, we have a dilemna.

Should I simply allow the continued awarding of these points? Frankly, it may require manual intervention to remove them - especially for prior weeks.

Or should we simply allow them to continue?

On one hand, since the draft was based on the understanding that these points were not going to be included, then they clearly should not be.

On the other hand, since they have been, and since roster decisions have probably been based on the status quo (since all reported points have included them), then to change this - prospectively or retroactively - is not particularly fair either.

I need feedback.
 
148Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:32 		Since I have McGee, you know which way I'm going to vote. He's pretty worthless if not for his return yardage.

Honestly, the draft is over, and we are all on a level playing field. NO ONE took any defensive players expecting to get return yardage points for them in the draft, so we all started at square 1 in that respect. Once the season started, even I didn't notice it was happening until 2 weeks ago. And I wasn't even sure of the rules at that point (this league uses different rules for many things compared to my usual leagues). This whole time, all of these return specialist defensive players have been available, since no one drafted any of them. So we were all in the same boat. Anyone could have picked them up.

My other argument for keeping the points is that there is no logical reason to give return yardage to offensive players, and ignore it for defensive players. Guys should get points for everything they do that earns points under our scoring system. That just seems obvious to me. Depriving IDP's of return yardage points would be like ignoring passing yardage for RB's and WR's (Drew Bennett the other night).
 
149Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:34 		I just did some more digging.

It appears that there are only two impacted IDP players who are on rosters in our league.

One is Darren Sharper, who earned 0.9 punt return points in week 2. He was on culdeus' team that week, but was on the bench.

The other is Terrence McGee, who earned 2.76 kick return points in week 5 for Motley Crue. He was active that week. Removing those points would not influence the W-L results of week 5, but they could have ultimate implications, since the last 2 playoff teams are based on total points, not W-L record.
 
150Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:40 		London Fletcher had some unusual points, too. In Week 2 he had a 10.68
 
151Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:47 		I'll give it more thought, but my initial impression is that allowing it is the equivalent to an in-season scoring change. I am categorically against that and do not want it to continue and want ir retro-actively fixed.

That is my impression at face value. I would be willing to take other factors into consideration, but it would take a lot to change my opinion. There are a couple of thiings that I feel re-enforce my feelings:

1) MC picked up a player with the intent of benefitting from the error. I'm not calling him a cheat, I know him too well to even consider that possibility. What I am saying is that whether it's an honest mistake (which I 100% believe it to be based on what he said) or deception, the fact remains a decision was made to take advantage of the points being awarded.

2) It would be an easy retro-active fix if I understand Guru's last post correctly.

I don't know if it's easy to change the scoring to prevent this going forward. If it's not I don't think we can just say "Don't pick up IDP's who return kicks" That just doesn't sit well with me either.

This is clearly a miscommunication between Fanball and Guru with Fanball obviously to blame. IF (big if IMO) the league wishes to simply live with it then I still think it should be retro-actively fixed. I don't believe the points should be awarded until we clear another waiver period (basically until Week 7 after everyone has a fair chance to make claims following Week 6).
 
152Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 10:56 		Motley is correct in post 150. London Fletcher had 42 KR yards (1.68 points) for me in week 2. Again, it did not make a difference in the W/L results. I wish I had been alert to that back when it happened, however.
 
153Sludge
      ID: 54692111
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:01 		There's just no really good solution that's going to make everyone happy, I think. Personally, I'm ambivalent as to which would be the better course. On the one hand, I'm not above arguing over trivial scoring matters (safeties), but on the other hand, I don't like undoing what's already been done (even if it doesn't impact past wins and losses in games). If I were forced to pick, I would lean slightly towards going to the rules we thought we were using all along, and retroactively adjusting those scores that were impacted. But I also know how much of a pain in the arse that is likely to be. So officially my vote is to abstain.
 
154Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:02 		There are very few IDP's that return kicks, now that I've had a chance to review the rankings. I honestly thought there were several.

I'm willing to drop my objection. I felt that there would be a scrum for the few, but it's not fair that I am the only one to derive the benefit. McGee clearly is the only one who is consistently returning kicks.

I admit that I picked up McGee to take advantage of his extra scoring potential. You have my word that I was fuzzy enough on the rules that I assumed everything was on the up-and-up. I haven't played many games where the auto-scoring feature just plain works incorrectly. So when I see the points, I assumed they were legitimate. I mean, if anyone else searches for FA's the way I do, which is to look at the available players ranked from best to worst, you all saw McGee's name on top of the DB rankings for weeks. I didn't feel like I was doing anything dishonest by picking him up. Maybe the sketchy move was not raising the IDP return yardage scoring issue, but as I stated before, I assumed it wasn't an issue. I mean, there are 14 of us playing in here, and I know others noticed it. No one said anything until TB and I were talking last night. He pointed out to me that things weren't like we originally contemplated when drafting.

I am willing to give back the return points for McGee, if that is what Guru decides to do. Since my 2 wins last week won't be affected anyway, I have no problem dropping the points.

I want to thank Ender for his confidence in me. I want to make it clear that I was not intending to pull a fast one or be dishonest. I genuinely believed (and still do) that the owners in this league are of a sufficient caliber to observe irregularities, and that when an error is made, someone will point it out. It just took 5 weeks in this case. Honest mistake.
 
155Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:07 		We obviously need to reach some consensus quickly, since it will impact Motley's decision whether to continue holding McGee. I suspect it will not affect culdeus decision on Sharper (though I could be wrong). It will certainly not impact my decision to continue to hold Fletcher!

My initial inclination is to agree with Ender on this. The issue was specifically raised pre-draft, and we specifically stated that return yardage would not be awarded to IDP, but that I would manually adjust for any return TDs.

When Motley noticed this regarding McGee, he could have checked the rules. The rules page still states that "Offensive Players get [return yardage points]".

I agree that it makes sense that all players should get all points, and that is what we wanted at the outset. But we were told by Fanball that this was not possible (without a manual adjustment). So, the fact that it makes sense now is not a compelling argument, IMO.

I have not yet broached the issue with Fanball, because I want to know what our resolution will be. If we simply decide to accept the status quo, then I am reluctant to ask them to fix something that we do necessarily not want fixed.
 
156Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:24 		Since time is of the essence, here is my proposal:

1. I will concede my KR points from Fletcher in week 2. This was clearly a scoring error, according to the rules, and I did not own Fletcher with any expectation of receiving return yardage points.

2. I will allow Motley's return points for McGee to stand in week 5. Although they are contrary to the stated rules, his decision to own McGee was based upon faulty data provided by Fanball, and he would not have owned McGee if the selection data had been properly presented.

3. No IDP return points will be allowed for week 6. If I have to manually adjust, I will. This assumes that Motley will have ample time to swap out of McGee if he wishes.

4. I will report the discrepancy to Fanball.

Step 5 is dependent on the reply from Fanball.
5. If Fanball says they cannot change anything, then we allow return yardage for IDP's starting in week 7. We will know this prior to the next claiming period, and everyone will have an opportunity to claim with proper understanding.

5. If Fanball simply fixes the problem and does not provide IDP scoring for return yardage in the future, then we will continue as we had originally planned.

5. If Fanball allows for either option going forward, then we will vote prior to the next claiming period.

If you agree with my plan, please say yes. If you disagree, please indicate which element you would want to change.

 
157Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:42 		BTW, I just notified Fanball of the problem. I will post their response when I get it.
 
158Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:50 		Yes

I'll give up McGee's return yardage points from last week. Seems kind of ridiculous no to, in light of your forfeiture of Fletcher's from week 2.
 
159Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:07 		Motley, the difference between your situation and mine is that I never expected return points for Fletcher. It sounds like you would not have taken McGee without the expectation of return points. Had the point situation been accurately reflected, you would probably have selected some other player.

So I do think there is a material difference in our situations.

Fortunately, the point implications are rather immaterial. In week 2, though, the game that I won was by a margin of only 2.32 points. Giving up Fletcher's 1.68 makes it a victory by less than a point. But still a victory. [phew!]

But even if it had turned a win into a loss, I would recommend making the change. I cannot conjure up a good rationale for keeping Fletcher's points.
 
160Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:11 		Yes, but regardless of what I believed, my feeling is that all rules ought to be applied uniformly throughout the league.
 
161GoatLocker
      ID: 427272213
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:30 		Looks like Guru and MC have sorted things out.
Just now looked at this.
Will be on very little this weekend since we are on vacation.

Best of luck to all this weekend.

Cliff
 
162Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:41 		I guess that was a yes vote.

In any event, unless we get some no votes quickly, I'll simply apply my proposal via Commissioner fiat.
 
163Ender
      Donor
      ID: 013443221
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:44 		Yes

I'll let Guru make the final decision on MC's Week 5 points because he is the Commissioner and I'll accept whatever decision he makes. I would like to say that I agree with MC himself on this one though. The rules were available. I feel we are all culpable on this because we all had equal opportunity to catch the error. It just so happens that he and Guru are the only ones that received a material benefit from the rules (one with knowledge, one without). I understand what Guru is saying, but I don't see any reason why MC (again, no disrespect) should still receive the points. He had the same opportunity to read the rules and see that he should not receive those points as we all did to realize that it was happening.
 
164Trip
      ID: 478261310
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 12:51 		Guru -

When I did the setup for fanball it did not appear that there was a way to allow return points for offensive and not defensive players. Therefore I have been making scoring adjustments each week. Through 5 weeks I have only had to make an average of 4 adjustments per week. It is not a difficult task as the return yardage gained by player is listed on the results page at the end of the weeks game as well as on the live scoring page.
 
165Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:13 		Trip - does this mean you are actually deducting the return points for IDP? Or are they not being automatically applied, and you are manually adding them in?

From your post, it sounds like you have been manually deducting those points. Am I interpreting that correctly?
 
166Trip
      ID: 478261310
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:23 		I am manually adding in offensive returns.

I post them in our discussion thread for review.
 
167Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:28 		So they are not automatically included for your IDP? I wonder why they are for our league?
 
168Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:30 		Or do you have no points awarded for anyone, and then you are adding them in for the offensive players only?
 
169Trip
      ID: 478261310
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:50 		They are not included in our IDP scoring at all.
 
170Trip
      ID: 478261310
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:52 		Post 168 is correct - they are not included at all. I thought that this was how you were doing it and after reading the rules, I assumed that this was how you had it set up. After re-reading, it appears that you didn't think it was an option to include IDP return yardage.
 
171Perm Dude
      ID: 2343587
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 13:56 		I'd always wanted the "all players get points" strategy, but I agree that the Guru plan is fine.
 
172TB
      Leader
      ID: 031811922
      Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 18:37 		I voted to allow defensive players to get return yards and wouldn't mind seeing it included, but I will go with whatever is decided. It makes no difference to me.
 
173I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 227221220
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 01:47 		RE: #123... too bad you didn't pay enough attention to the matter that I brought up... maybe you would have noticed that it affected your division too?! That's what you get for for not paying attention to the "lower" Qualifier leagues questions.
 
174Motley Crue
      ID: 181650
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 07:50 		Wow, you told us so!
 
175deepsnapper
      ID: 15843714
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 10:08 		Rock the vote - Yes

#127 PD - Whatever, but it was George W that needed to pee in a bottle after the final debate wednesday night. He must have slipped a couple of his daughter's "party poppers" in as his toes were sure tapping 9000 mph. lol

#131 Ender - It's doubtful I'll get 100% back. I'm an early candidate for cataracts so thats the biggie to watch out for besides blindness of couse. The surgery cleared out all my "floaters" though. :)
 
176Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 10:57 		I have not yet heard back from Fanball.

Since I have received no objections to my proposal, I will implement it. The consensus seems to be to remove the points for both me and Motley, so I'll do that.

No KR or PR yardage points will be counted this weekend. I will manually back them out. Set your week #6 lineups accordingly.

Our stance for weeks 7 and beyond will depend on the response I get from Fanball. We may need a vote early next week.

Meanwhile, I have received no objections to the recent trade between Leggo and Motley, so I just processed it.
 
177Ender
      ID: 0442215
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 14:39 		Re: 173

It should be up to the commissioner and players of each league to solve their own disputes. I don't blame Guru for not getting involved.

I did read the thread thoroughly and understood what the problem was. I did not realize at the time that the same problem affected us. I suppose that's par for the course since none of us noticed it anyway until now. I didn't think it impacted us. I focused more on the dispute itself rather than the actual scoring issue when I read it.

 
178Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 16:11 		Here is the response I received from Fanball:
"There was apparently some confusion on your question the first time and the previous responder gave you the wrong information. What happens is that anytime a player touches the ball on a kick or punt return the system recognizes them as being an "offensive" player, regardless of whether or not they are an offensive or defensive player. Sorry for the confusion, and any inconvenience this may have caused, please let us know if you have any further questions."
So, our options are as follows:

Option 1: Allow return yardage points for all players starting in week 7.

Option 2: Continue to exclude return yardage points for IDP. I will need to manually adjust them out each week, which is not difficult, but still a manual step that will need to be applied after the fact.

The arguments in favor of #1 are
  • that we orignally wanted this approach,
  • that the impact on actual IDP results looks to be fairly marginal,
  • that it would not necessitate a manual adjustment each week,
  • that the points calculated by Fanball would be accurate as published (in both the live scoring and player listings),
  • and that by implementing the change after week 6 but before the next claiming period, the change can be applied in an open and controlled manner.


    • The argument against it is that it is a mid-season change in a scoring rule.

    I'm willing to go either way on this, and want the rest of the league owners to vote. However, since including return yardage for IDPs is a rule change, I will require a majority affirmative vote before implementing option 1. Thus, any abstentions or non-votes will be construed as a vote to continue with option #2.

    Thus, please vote now. Option #2 will be applied unless I get 8 votes for Option #1 prior to 1pm ET on Tuesday, Oct. 19. The deadline is to allow sufficient time for everyone to consider possible free agent claims in the event of a change.

     
    179Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 16:12         		I'll vote for option #1.
     
    180GoatLocker
          ID: 427272213
          Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 16:19         		Option #1 is fine with me.

    Cliff
     
    181Ender
          ID: 0442215
          Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 19:24         		As I said before I despise midseason rule changes, but this strikes me as totally different for the reasons stated by Guru above.

    The initial vote was to include return yards for all players and we were misinformed by Fanball. There for I vote for:

    Option 1
     
    182TB
          Leader
          ID: 031811922
          Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 20:50         		Option #1
     
    183Taxman
          ID: 34919127
          Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 22:37         		Option 1


    Guru...you have no kicker active in Gold Member for Oct 17
     
    184Perm Dude
          ID: 2343587
          Sun, Oct 17, 2004, 01:28         		option #1.
     
    185MikeV
          SuperDude
          ID: 25924115
          Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 17:54         		option #1
     
    186Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 19:52         		That brings the tally to 7 votes for option 1, none against. But I need 8 votes to approve it.
     
    187Motley Crue
          ID: 181650
          Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 22:01         		I vote for Option 1.
     
    188Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 22:34         		All right, it's settled. Plan your free agent claims accordingly for this week.
     
    189Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Tue, Oct 19, 2004, 10:29         		For week 6, I made return-related scoring adjustments for two teams:

    RotoGuru.com was reduced by 0.92 (for each game) to eliminate KR yardage for London Fletcher.

    Motley Crue was reduced by 1.88 (for each game) to eliminate KR yardage for Terrence McGee.

    None of these impacted the winners of the games. Fantasy point totals should be updated within the hour.
     
    190TB
          Leader
          ID: 031811922
          Wed, Oct 20, 2004, 00:32         		I shot out a couple trade offers tonight. I am looking to upgrade at Team D or TE. I feel pretty good at every other position, unless Guru wants to make me some kind of offer for Culpepper (like Deuce and Plummer...hint hint)

    30.57 points a game. Wow.
     
    191Ender
          Donor
          ID: 013443221
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 11:55         		PD, here's hoping Putzier is good for less than 7.5 pts tonight :)

    I'll be watching intently as I need a good game from Rod Smith (and a bad one from Kaesviharn).

    100 yds and a TD will work nicely.
     
    192Motley Crue
          ID: 181650
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 18:48         		PD started 4 IDP's against me this week. Talk about opening a Pandora's Box.

    I'm wondering how the game is going to score that. Currently, the Live Scoring feature has included the extra player's score.

    If that doesn't change, what happens next, Guru?
     
    193Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 19:39         		Penalize him 5 yards for too many men on the field?

    I wonder how he managed to do that?

    I guess I'll have to deduct some points. I'd like to hear from PD what the "manager's intent" was, since there are no hanging chads for me to inspect.

    In any event, it doesn't appear that any point adjustment will impact the winner of the game - unless I declare it a forfeit!
     
    194Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 22:43         		I decided to use my Commissioner powers to bench the highest scoring IDP in Perm Dudes' lineup. Now his lineup is valid.
     
    195TB
          Leader
          ID: 031811922
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 23:45         		Are transactions allowed on Sunday nights? I noticed a late transaction last week and another one this week.
     
    196Ender
          ID: 0442215
          Mon, Oct 25, 2004, 23:50         		Indeed! Last nights at 6:00p EST is significant to my game.
     
    197Perm Dude
          ID: 2343587
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 00:03         		As I mentioned in my email to Guru, I'm not at all certain as to how I got 4 idp's. Didn't know you could start an invalid number of players. I picked up Anthony Henry for this week and made moves to start him and thought I had made the same moves for both games (my game against Challenger reflects the lineup I wanted).

    Luckily it doesn't change the score for me, but it's very odd that I was able to get 4 idps in game 2. Maybe it doesn't check the lineup validity for game 2 if game 1 is OK?
     
    198Ender
          ID: 0442215
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 00:16         		Currently I am down by 6.22 points.

    The player in question, Kevin Kaesviharn, has scored 7.5 points.

    I want to know what's going on. How was Taxman able to add him after games began yesterday?
     
    199Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 00:27         		Players can be added or dropped until 5 minutes before their game time. The add/drop transactions at 6pm Sunday were both Cincy players, who did not play until Monday.
     
    200Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 00:30         		Copied from the rules page:

    During the regular season, league members are allowed to make their own free agent acquisitions:
    Weekly starting Wednesday 01:00p EST and players lock 5 minutes before kickoff of their game.
     
    201Ender
          ID: 0442215
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 00:34         		Well, duh. Always doublecheck the rules. Sorry, I was too concerned over the margin of victory and the player in question.
     
    202Taxman
          SuperDude
          ID: 029463114
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 05:17         		Seems to me there is a not so veiled unjustified attack on attorneys here .. but of course in PD's case, it is justified. I was only an innocent bystander.
     
    203GoatLocker
          Sustainer
          ID: 060151121
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 09:09         		Sure hard to win without a QB.

    Cliff
     
    204Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 09:28         		...but possible.

    In another league that requires 2 QBs, my team was 0-6 going in, but I managed my first win this week with the studly QB duo of McNair and Quinn, who managed to complete about 3 quarters of play combined.
     
    205TB
          ID: 59933268
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 10:34         		I planned on grabbing the Colts D during the waiver period for this week, but when I went in to set my claims they were gone. I know I saw them available Sunday morning so I was confused. Knowing what the rules are now it makes sense on what happened.
     
    206Ender
          Donor
          ID: 013443221
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 11:10         		I put a claim in on the St. Louis D thinking it was a great matchup. Guru outranked me in the waiver process and took the beating for me. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good as they say.
     
    207Taxman
          SuperDude
          ID: 029463114
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 12:05         		I would like to think the genius of my last minute move between Cincinatti DB's was the winning move in match with Ender, but the DB dropped scored 3.5 points which still would have proved me a win, but with a margin of just 2.22 points.

    Guru, that was a masterful use of mirrows in breaking through in the Golden Member competition.
     
    208Ender
          Donor
          ID: 013443221
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 13:23         		Rub it in :P
     
    209Guru
          ID: 46962416
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 13:26         		I'm not sure what mirrows are, but I'm glad to know I was masterful with them!
     
    210Motley Crue
          Leader
          ID: 439372011
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 13:53         		Those are the aisles they have on the Russian space station.
     
    211Taxman
          SuperDude
          ID: 029463114
          Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 14:26         		Dave, if it is any consolation, Miami won last week also. Something comes to mind about blind hogs and acorns.
     
    212Guru
          ID: 330592710
          Wed, Oct 27, 2004, 08:44         		Perm Dude - or anyone else with more than 3 IDPs:

    Try setting your lineup with 13 players, including an extra IDP, and see if the system allows it, and/or if any error message flags the problem.

    When I try to overload my roster with a non-IDP, the system prevents it. But since PD was able to do this last week (indavertantly), I suspect the bug may relate only to IDPs. I only have 3, so I can't test the issue on my roster.
     
    213GoatLocker
          Sustainer
          ID: 060151121
          Wed, Oct 27, 2004, 13:27         		Dave,
    The system let me add the 4th IDP for 13 players, but comes up with a huge red box below my lineup that says:

    - Cannot start more than 12 total players. Selected: 13


    Cliff
     
    214cEHp
          ID: 39943123
          Mon, Nov 01, 2004, 00:06         		That sucks.

    I guess my changes for my 2nd game didn't go through successfully. I made them and end up losing by 9 points. Krenzel and Duce scored around 20 combined. Oh well........
     
    215TB
          Leader
          ID: 031811922
          Mon, Nov 01, 2004, 00:54         		I have made at least one wrong choice the last 3 weeks that has caused me a couple losses. I will split this week, but starting Leftwich over Plummer (which I should have done the previous two weeks) wasn't such a great idea.
     
    216Ender
          ID: 0442215
          Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 08:48         		Wow, they left CuMar in just long enough.