Forum: foot
Page 4733
Subject: Gurupie 24 2006 Regular Season Discussion II

  Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Tue, Oct 10, 2006, 15:51
Last thread

It has always bothered me that there were some eroneous doubling of team scores in week 2 of our first year. Twarpy made a SS after year three to make things sortable but there was a flaw with the formula for some of the sorts. Still we were able to figure out every game score of every week. I've wanted to figure out overall franchise records for a long time but I knew it would be a time killer since I'd have to go through twarpy's list and compare it to the first year and figure out once and for all which teams doubling changed them from a win to a loss and so forth. (What may have happened was that when rfs went in to make adjustments he accidently put what the score should be instead of deducting. We fixed it but after the season it got messed up again. I can't remember exactly what went wrong as CBS assisted him in fixing it.)

Anyhow, using the weekly matchups and comparing it to the stadings, I figured out there were 4 games that were changed eroneously.

These teams were given wins that should have been losses: Bears, Bengals, Chargers and Jaguars. These teams were credited with losses that should have been wins: Colts, 49ers, Giants and Cardinals.

I have now made a ss up and I will put it on the G20/24 football web site we have. I have all the records through last year. While I could have easily added this year in too, I didn't wnat to have to update it every week. We can add some records based on this in the record books and I could just add that in on there. I'll post the chart in here as well.
 
2StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 17:33 		Walter is available as a QB bye week fill-in. I don't have anything specific in mind, so make me an offer. I could use a WR though. His numbers actually got me a win in week 4 during my QB's bye.
 
3Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 19:17 		I asked StL Cards to help me re-work my SS above so I could keep it updated. May not get posted on our site all the time, but trying ot determine top 5 wins and losses manually by addin this year's ongoing records was a pain. Also, I wanted to see winning % and other stuff. Cards took it a step farther and it looks really nice. Nice to have history documented. Im going to input this year's records in there and I'll post it. I'll also post it on our web site.
 
5TB
      ID: 448553012
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 19:59 		Baltimore Ravens: TB, 05-current *APerfect10, 02-04

I think it would look better if it didn't have our names after the team name or if it just listed the current team manager.
 
6Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 20:08 		Like TB's Baltimore Ravens? and just take out the former managers and franchise names? That can be easily done.
 
7TB
      ID: 448553012
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 20:28 		Sure. We already have some historic stuff at the web site that lists previous owners and records. I think it will clean up your format and look a bit more snazzy.
 
8TB
      ID: 448553012
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 21:31 		I just dropped "recently acquired" kicker Joe Nedney for unknown Brad Smith. I don't think "on the block" works very well. It might be because some people list their whole team and others don't bother to look at it.

Hey Joe, thanks for the win last week. I don't have room for you on the keeper list and tried to trade you, but it seems as though your best chance to land a starting gig is from the waiver wire. If people will use their waiver priority for Peterson, I am sure you will get picked up. Good luck.
 
9Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 23:31 		I edited it, but left the names at the end for now.
 
10Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 11, 2006, 23:34
G24 Franchise Win-Loss Records
2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 Totals
AFC East Division W L W L W L W L W L W L GP Win %
Baltimore Ravens: TB 10 6 7 7 6 9 6 10 2 3 31 35 66 0.470
Buffalo Bills: Dan 5 9 4 10 8 6 4 10 3 2 24 37 61 0.393
Cincinnati Bengals: Myboyjack 6 8 11 5 9 6 6 8 4 1 36 28 64 0.563
Indianapolis Colts: Ref 12 4 14 2 9 7 12 4 3 2 50 19 69 0.725
Jacksonville Jaguars: Slackjawed Yokel 8 7 8 7 3 11 5 9 1 4 25 38 63 0.397
New York Jets: Great One 10 6 9 7 13 3 3 11 3 2 38 29 67 0.567
East Division Totals 51 40   53 38   48 42   36 52   16 14   204 186 390 0.523
AFC West Division
Cleveland Browns: Perm Dude 7 8 8 8 3 11 4 11 1 4 23 42 65 0.354
Denver Broncos: coldwater coyotes 5 9 8 8 11 5 8 8 4 1 36 31 67 0.537
Houston Texans: beastiemiked 6 8 2 12 8 6 10 6 4 1 30 33 63 0.476
Kansas City Chiefs: smallwhirled 4 10 8 8 2 12 11 5 3 2 28 37 65 0.431
Oakland Raiders: Doug 8 8 5 10 9 7 10 6 2 3 34 34 68 0.500
San Diego Chargers: GoatLocker 5 10 5 10 7 9 7 8 1 4 25 41 66 0.379
West Division Totals 35 53   36 56   40 50   50 44   15 15   176 218 394 0.447
NFC North Division
Arizona Cardinals: Craig Turley 9 6 8 7 6 8 8 7 3 2 34 30 64 0.531
Chicago Bears: CCRider 6 10 7 9 11 5 9 7 5 0 38 31 69 0.551
Green Bay Packers: skinneej 6 8 2 12 10 6 4 10 2 3 24 39 63 0.381
Minnesota Vikings: TaRhEElKiD 7 7 6 8 6 10 10 6 1 4 30 35 65 0.462
New York Giants: Twarpy 8 8 10 6 11 5 7 7 1 4 37 30 67 0.552
Seattle Seahawks: Promize 12 4 8 6 5 10 6 10 2 3 33 33 66 0.500
North Division Totals 48 43 0 41 48 0 49 44 0 44 47   14 16   196 198 394 0.497
NFC South Division
Atlanta Falcons: Action Figures 5 11 11 5 9 7 7 7 2 3 34 33 67 0.507
Dallas Cowboys: Peter N 11 5 11 5 10 6 10 6 2 3 44 25 69 0.638
New Orleans Saints: Toral 6 8 2 12 6 8 7 7 3 2 24 37 61 0.393
Philadelphia Eagles: deepsnapper 9 7 7 7 3 11 6 9 1 4 26 38 64 0.406
San Francisco 49ers: StLCards 8 8 11 5 9 6 14 2 3 2 45 23 68 0.662
St Louis Rams: blackjackis21 9 7 10 6 8 8 8 8 4 1 39 30 69 0.565
South Division Totals 48 46   52 40   45 46   52 39   15 15   212 186 398 0.533
* Former manager of the franchise
# Left the league during the season
% Took over the franchise during the season
League Champion
Regular Season Best Record
 
11StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 09:38 		Unknown Brad Smith? LOL, not if you follow the Mizzou Tigers. He was the star QB and before his last year some thought he had a shot at the Heisman Trophy even. I looked at him myself, but I have too many part time players already + I already have 1 Jet too many as it is!
 
12Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 14:01 		I looked at him as well. He's a converted QB as Cards said but the coach likes him and will play him esp in blowouts as he did last week. I took Jones over him just because he was so hyped before going down with an ACL tear last year. With 8 Keepers, it severaly hinders keeper candidates it seems, but who knows?
 
13TB
      ID: 448553012
      Thu, Oct 12, 2006, 20:52 		LOL Cards, we might be the only two who do follow the Tigers in this league and I only do because of proximity. Ref, I almost claimed Jones with waivers but figured he was a one week start and thought I might be able to trade Nedney. I probably could have eventually, but didn't really have the patience for it.
 
14Peter N.
      ID: 178122816
      Fri, Oct 13, 2006, 09:16 		TB, I follow them some with them being in the Big 12 and me enrolled at Texas Tech University. I definitely watched them whoop our asses last week. And I remember Brad Smith well.
 
15Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Oct 13, 2006, 16:15 		TB Re: Nedney...

Some people have bye week issues and they can't afford to give up someone until their bye week K gets here. I've talked to several via emial, and sent out feelers to a few others who have DST bye weeks this week or upcoming. Everyone that emailed me back was interested. Some, however, can't afford to make a deal until next week. There has been less trading this year as there are less bye weeks and more teams having bye weeks in the same week. Combine that with a shorter keeper roster and some just don't feel like they can make that move until they absolutely have to. Some have had or chosen to go without. I think if you'd have held onto him until next week you may have had some takers. The way DSTs and Ks go in the draft, you'd think at least some decent draft picks would have come your way if not a 3rd or 4th Flex player, etc.
 
16 StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Fri, Oct 13, 2006, 16:31 		TB - I sent you an email, but if you respond to it over the weekend probably best to use this email instead.
 
17Promize
      ID: 141018197
      Fri, Oct 13, 2006, 16:37 		Brad Smith actually was one of the top 5 leading Heisman picks the start of the 2004 season? Until he had a dismal game against Troy University on a Thursday night nationally televised game on ESPN... That game was probably his worst ever.

Holds the NCAA Div. I-A career rushing record for QBs, with 4,289 yards, and became the first NCAA Div. I-A QB to throw for 8,000 yards and rush for 4,000 yards in a career ...

Ended his career ranked 4th on the alltime NCAA career total offense chart, with 13,088 yards.

1st player in NCAA Div. I-A history to achieve the 2,000/1,000 mark twice in his career.

Is one of only 3 players in Div. I-A history to have 4 seasons of 2,500 yards of total offense, and is one of only 6 players to have 3 seasons of 3,000 yards of total offense.

Became only the 6th player in NCAA Div. I-A history to rush and throw for at least 230 yards each in a game.

Became only the 4th player in NCAA D-I history to throw for 200 points and score 200 points in a career.

I love my Tigers! 6-0 after tommorow I hope... climbing up those standings quickly.
 
18 StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sat, Oct 14, 2006, 00:46 		I'm looking at the trade page and I see a trade between the Broncos and the Colts. The trade is Ladell Betts for the Jets DST. The message says max. objections met.

I'm not sure why it would say that as we aren't using an objection system in G24, rather we are using commish approval and then a league veto if people don't like it.

I'm guessing that somehow the settings weren't done right or something?

Bottom line is that if people don't like this trade then they better email me at this email address and let me know the problem.

If ref and Coyotes want to post their rationales then that would help as well. I'll check for responses tomorrow.
 
19StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sat, Oct 14, 2006, 01:00 		I guess it could be that the site always says that and I just don't see it as that is not where we approve trades from. I usually get a pending trade notification email which I haven't even gotten yet, so who knows. I was actually just checking on a trade I offered to see if it was accepted or rejected yet and I noticed that other one.

Personally I see no problem with it. Betts is nothing but a backup to Portis and the Jets DST are just a bye week replacement.

Again though, if peopel have issues then send me your concerns to my aol account so I can see what they are.
 
20Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Oct 14, 2006, 09:57 		Yeah, he offered that to me last night as he doesn't have a team D and instead of wait until next week for the people who needed it, I just traded them now and coyotes can deal them and the browns to those guys next week.

Every trade has said that this year. There is no trade vote in G24. It's commish approval with an appeal process. We offered to go to a trade vote but there was no support in this league--I'm guessing because of the timliness issue of the weekly games. In past years it never said objections met so not sure why they changed it, but we didn't change any settings.
 
21StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sat, Oct 14, 2006, 12:31 		OK, trade approved.
 
22Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Oct 14, 2006, 13:46 		I"d like to get another QB sometime in the next couple weeks just in case. My luck with QBs has cost me having a dynasty in this league. Every single year, all my QBs have gone down. Trading away my future every time. So if you have two QBs and get through your bye weeks, lets see if there is a fit.
 
23Perm Dude
      ID: 50931415
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 11:29 		GO, trade accepted. Good luck with him.
 
24Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 11:32 		Trade Approved.

10/15/06 09:55 am ET New York Jets ·Baskett, Hank WR PHI for Cleveland Browns ·Porter, Jerry WR OAK

 
25Perm Dude
      ID: 50931415
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 11:34 		wow, that's fast. thanks ref.
 
26Promize
      ID: 141018197
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 11:56 		Ok, I usually have a big upset each year... So I'm going with this week! My Seahawks over Bears... :)
 
27Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:01 		Yeah luckily i was around to process it being gameday and all. It's funny, I was just logged on for a minute when I got the email notification of the trade. 5 mins later and I wouldn't have gotten back in time to process it.
 
28Great One
      ID: 523121411
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:07 		Hopefully he screws his head on one of these days.

Not sure what I am seeing here the last hour or so, I also couldn't get anything to refresh on the site so I may have a missing roster spot. Getting a "we are receiving technical difficulties" message.
 
29Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:27 		Yeah, GO, it's down. go figure. I'd love for us to find a site more consistent where we could save all of our previous stats and load them into another site. I mean I like CBS and all, but for what we pay each year, I get really tired of the ads and the site going down a few times a year.
 
30Great One
      ID: 523121411
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:47 		Well if anything can be done after the fact, I believe I would have thrown Roscoe Parrish in the starting lineup(my other options were on bye anyway).

No big deal either way, I was likely to lose this week anyhow.
 
31Great One
      ID: 523121411
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:49 		I type that and he just scored lol... what are the chances!?!
 
32Perm Dude
      ID: 50931415
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 13:57 		I'm getting the same error message. But I can get into my other CBS team without a problem.
 
33Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 14:14 		I obviously can't even contact them when I can't get in.
 
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 15:16 		i just got in. been trying repeatedly the past 2 + hours.
 
35Promize
      ID: 141018197
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 15:19 		Yep me too, and look at my Lions D lead my team...

 
36Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 16:28 		Graham's 62 yd FG try actually had the distance! That would have been huge points for us.
 
37Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 16:52 		I try to make my pickems early in the week so I do'nt forget them. Well I picked the Jets over the ravens because I was sure GO would get a K. Then after today's trade that left him w/o a WR, I said to myself I've got to go in and change my pick to TB's Ravens. But when I got back to do it, I couldn't get in the site--so was hopeful that it was fate--but looks like TB should win.
 
38beastiemiked
      ID: 36428317
      Sun, Oct 15, 2006, 19:26 		Clayton gets two TD's off deflections. Maybe they should be looking to throw to him more.
 
39Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:00 		The longer the season goes in one of these RIFC leagues, the more i think IDPs could work in our league. I've talked to a few people who play in the various RIFC leagues and thus far they seem to agree. Obviously, there would have to be a lot of work done to try and research how it would be done with scoring to make it fair. Obviously that would all need to be done and discussed since there are so many variables to add to such a deep league.

Here are some ideas and potential problems we'd need to discuss.

Obviously, adding positions would perhaps skew positions we currently have. But I'd recommned keeping it simple. Perhaps a DL, LB and DB with a IDP flex. If we did that, we'd probably also need to add at least one additional bench spot for bye weeks. You can see how this could affect things already in this deep league. We could even make a couple IDP flex players w/o a positional requirement the first year.

Next, I don't know if anyone would want to even consider keeping a IDP, but if there are any keeper worthy--then perhaps for the 2nd year we could up the keepers back to 9. But, again, not sure many, if any would keep any and in that case, it would do no good.

Scoring: we'd need to come up with a formula that would co-exist with our current format. What we have is pretty darn good. But I can see some frustration building with less trading for bye weeks this year. TEs have been horrid across the board. With 24 teams, most can't get a QB for the bye week. Ks and DSTs are the same way--though easier to get than a QB. Conversely, IDPs seem to be pretty easy to get--esp. if we started with a couple flex spots. They can be crapshoots, but they at least should score points for you.

Obviously, I don't want to mess up a good thing, but discussion can be a good thing to see if it could make it better. If it won't work or many others don't want it, then that's fine, but I'd rather have the idea out there to be kicked around then not mention it at all.
 
40smallwhirled
      ID: 408271610
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:20 		I'm for it, if we can incorporate it the right way.

Scoring
Keepers
Flex

all need to be taken into account for sure.

I haven't played in IDPs that much, but the league that I'm playing in right now, I never hold more than my minimum number available, and I always use those other bench spots for other players. Not really sure how all the details would be ironed out.

Smarter people will definitely need to chime in.... ;)
 
41Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:28 		The main premise behind this is to open up the player pool and add more possibilities to all 24 teams. Perhaps 2 or 3 IDP flexes is the way to go. It's not like there are just one per team like QBs, TEs, K and DSTs. But flex players would open things up even more. But if positions were required like a DL, LB and DB and a flex then perhaps more trading could happen. Say a Peppers or Zach Thomas could even be traded for Offensive players and/or perhaps a bye week player.
 
42Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:41 		People that have top D's like the Bears, Steelers, Chargers and um, the Ravens are going to be asked to give up a position of strength that they have either drafted or traded for. It's no different than saying we're going to stop using TEs or RBs.

I can't imagine a more radical change to the league rules than this. Taking away a bargained for competitive advantage from some managers. That needs to be taken into consideration.
 
43Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:46 		mbj, Team D could continue to be a position. RIFC uses both.

Toral
 
44Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 19:46 		I don't understand? How would people be giving up a position of strength? You'd still have your DSTs as well. IDPs would be in addition to what we have now. The RIFC uses a similar scoring system that we do offensively and perhaps the IDP scoring system could be similar to theirs. I don't know. But no one would be giving up anything. This would be a major change and not one that I'd want a 13-11 vote on, but I don't view it as radical.
 
45Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 20:11 		You'd still have your DSTs as well. IDPs

I did not understand that.
 
46Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 20:15 		This would be a major change and not one that I'd want a 13-11 vote on,

Yes, a mere majority for this kind of rule change would not be right.

Understanding that we'd not be dropping a position, just adding IDP's - I'd be for the change. I love IDPs
 
47StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Mon, Oct 16, 2006, 23:55 		A long TD pass to Pope and Promize could still win this week.
 
48Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 00:11 		If live scoring holds up, CT scores 98.6 points and still loses by .7 points. WOW!
 
49GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 08:36 		I'm for adding IDPs, but it would sure take some work.

I'm not so sure about going DL, LB, DB.
Might be better to go with an LB and 2 flex slots to begin with.
Something we would all need to discuss and then make decisions about.

We have been tweaking IDP in RIFC since the very beginning.

There are a handful of IDPs who would be keeper worthy, but that would be about it.

Would really need to look at bench numbers and keeper numbers with the addition of 3 or 4 starters.

Cliff
 
50Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 11:14 		Only found three adjustments. Still amazed by CT's high score that resulted in a loss. Same stuff happened to him last year. Bad timing on his scheduling. Anyhow, that knocked thk's earlier game this year out of the top 5. I tweaked the overall w/l record grid. May or may not post it again on here, but it won't be getting posted weekly. Would rather have this year's standings up as I do get a few people that are following he league who'd like to see what's up.

As far as the record book goes, I'm trying to find different records to incorporate that will include as many managers as possible. Obviously teams like mine, Pete's and Stl Cards and lately CC Rider will be found more in soem of the "good" records and the ones who've had some bad breaks will be found more in the "dubious" records, but I find it entertaining to include as many as possible. Hopefully most of the rest of you do too.

Here are the records that I've changed after this week:

Most Wins Overall (thru 06 wk 6)
1. 51 Ref's Colts
2. 46 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 45 Peter's Cowboys
4. 39 CCR's Bears
4. 39 bj21's Rams
5. 38 GO's Jets
5. 38 Twarpy's Giants

Most Losses Overall (thru 06 wk 6)
1. 43 PD's Browns
2. 42 GL's Chargers
3. 40 SJ's Packers
4. 39 Yokel's Jaguars
5. 38 DS' Eagles
5. 38 Dan's Bills
5. 38 sw's Chiefs
5. 38 Toral's Saints

Most Points Scored Week and still Lose:
1. 109.48 Twarpy's Giants (02 Wk 11)
2. 104.56 GL's Chargers (04 Wk 10)
3. 98.60 CT's Cardinals (06 Wk 6)
4. 97.90 Twarpy's Giants (02 Wk 1)
5. 97.68 CCR's Bears (04 Wk 5)

Consecutive Weeks w/Win:
1. 13 Ref's Colts (02 Wk 10 - 03 Wk 6)
2. 12 StL Cards' 49ers (05 wk 6 - 06 Wk 1)
3. 10 CCR's Bears (05 Wk 13 - current)
4. 9 AF's Falcons (03 wk 2-10)
5. 8 CCR's Bears (04 wk 7-14)
5. 8 Twarpy's Giants (04 wk 5-12)

Skinneej still leads pick-ems with 51 correct.
 
51coldwater coyotes
      ID: 31554112
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 14:42 		I support adding IDPs
 
52Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 15:28 		RE: 49, before even thinking too much about scoring, we'd need to consider the active/bench roster ramifications.

If we added 4 starters like a DL/LB/DB/Flex then how many bench spots do you add? 1? 2?

If we added 2 or 3 IDP flex players, then my guess is that we'd add no more than one bench spot.

I think the possibilities would be opened up more if we went with the DL/LB/DB/Flex options as the top players in each position would have more possibility to be traded as they'd have more value, whereas if they are all flex, it would be easy to go find a random IDP to replace a bye week or injury.

Once we figure that out, we'd want to look at scoring formulas that will fit into our current system. One that makes the top players valuable as we've done with our Kickers and DSTs. But on average it should be probably below the avg. WR. I'd think they'd need to be attractive enough that several teams would be forced to keep at least one of them. If we can make that work then perhaps we can then consider going back up to 9 Keepers for the following year (2008). Some might even feel they need to keep two IDPs perhaps.

The best thing is that even if we use the 4 IDPs, we should'nt have a problem of not having an IDP to find if we need one. Might not find one that scores a lot, but should be able to find positive points to cover your bye if you so choose--creating more strategic elements. This also would extend the draft and perhaps lower the round in which people feel they have to get that horrible DST or Kicker. I'd welcome other Pros and Cons to these ideas or other input.
 
53StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 15:33 		I would rather not have IDP's but I could live with them. Part of the reason I enjoy this league is its simplicity. Some of the other leagues I am in have so many players that I start forgetting who I even have on my team.

We also have tried to come up with scoring that at least attempts to create a balance among positions. That would be something that would require some careful thought beforehand. I also agree that another bench spot would be required to cover bye weeks, and if people opted to throw another RB, WR, QB in that spot, then the already shallow pool gets even more diluted.

My experience agrees that there are a few top IDP players that can make a difference in a league over a season, but mostly it is a crapshoot. The main stat for consistency is the tackle. Other stats like fumbles, blocked kicks, interceptions, and even sacks are much more random. It also seems IDP's are hurt much more often so more depth is probably needed as well.

Another reason I don't really favor IDP's is that it is not something really tracked during game broadcasts, so it is hard to know how you are doing during the games. With offense you usually get a game break or running stat line showing you the offensive leaders, but rarely do you see that such and such linebacker has 8 tackles in the first half or something.

Because of that I don't know most of the IDP players other than the big names, whereas with the offense I could tell you almost all the starters of each team as well as their backups. I would be surprised if I were the only one like this.

Another consideration would be how to distribute the IDP players initially. Would it just be make them all available in the supplemental draft or would there be an IDP draft for the initial population of rosters? In the first case, the better teams are probably helped more as the teams with the high first round picks are probably still going to go with the hot rookie RBs and WRs which would leave the top IDP players to the better teams. If a separate draft were held, then the lower ranked teams get helped yet again if it is reverse order, so maybe a random drawing of draft order with a separate IDP draft would be better. I don't know.

I haven't thought about it a whole lot, but I can definitely see some issues.
 
54GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 16:01 		Stl Cards
Go to www.nfl.com and follow the games there.
You will see everything every player is doing.
Including all of the IDPs.

If you're going to go DL, LB, DB, flex, the odds are real good that one additional bench slot would not be enough.
Just my opinion.
Would think you would want to add two.

Now, that said, one would potentially open up the FAs at other positions a little more.
Hard to tell, but could be benificial in the long run for the league.

Cliff
 
55Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 00:15 		I've went through every game ever played in our league. I've compiled a great deal of info and added it to the grid I had last week. In doing so, I was able to fix not only the records of the 8 teams in question in 2002, but their PFs and PAs for that year and two of our records will need to be changed (one is mine) because of it. I've been able to gleen all the high point totals for the weeks (actually need to relook at 2002 Week two as I forgot to adjust for the doubling of scores--but that shouldn't take too long).

Anyhow, the result is a cumulative grid that allows you to see a lot of info about your team and allows me to keep it update it and make it easier for me to update many of the records that are manually kept. I also found some other mistakes that I will start to correct asap. This has all been checked and entered by a human so please check your team for errors. Because it is so wide, I've posted it in the test forum for now. I still want to clean it up and add some bells and whistles and already got a suggestion of breaking it down into pages or what have you but I'm not that advanced yet.

If we ever leave CBS or I have to leave the league, I want to have something to pass on to the league.

There are some interesting observations, but the first thing that jumped out at me is that through 6 weeks, scoring is down for us. I'm thinking that will raise again after these bye weeks, but who knows.

Here is the cumulative standings grid. I'd appreciate any and all feedback and suggestions for improvement.
 
56Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 00:19 		As I look, I also found a couple other scoring errors in 2002 Wk 2 where teams scores were doubled but didn't cost them a loss. That week is very problematic for us as we try to fix things. That will all be fixed once and for all soon. Thought I had it done already--but nope.
 
57Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 01:05 		OK, hope I found them all. Am going to go back and double check all of the 100 point games too for every year to make sure I looked on both the home and road sides. All told there were six scores that were inadvertently doubled, five resulted in wins being changed erroneously. The win/losses were already corrected, I just had to adjust a couple more PF/PA scores and had to award thk the High Points for the Week instead of Doug. I put it up on our web site but no promises that it will be updated on there weekly.
 
58Promize
      ID: 141018197
      Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 19:07 		I'm am definitely 100% for adding IDP's... with a big BUT!!!

How we do the draft for them? I personally can only see having a totally seperate draft for the first year to make it fair... Probably a random pick draft just like if we was doing a new league all over for just defense... Of course for time purposes might have to run both these drafts simutaneously...

Why two drafts?
I don't see why teams who are probably going to finish in the lower tier this year and will have a chance for rookie studs should be penalized for a equal chance at getting defensive studs.

Just my 2cents
 
59TB
      ID: 448553012
      Thu, Oct 19, 2006, 19:20 		I like the idea of IDPs, but don't see a fair way to "realign" the league. Promize brought up an interesting point about the draft, but personally I think if IDP is added then you have to choose between drafting the 3rd best rookie RB or LB Urlacher.

MJB brought up a concern about losing team defense, which wasn't discussed, but I personally dislike having IDP AND team defense in the same league. We don't have team offense so why have team defense?

I like my core players, but am not oppossed to a complete redraft. I am sure there are plenty of owners who wouldn't want to redraft.

As far as IDP starters, there are more of them than offensive starters. Offensive linemen make up 5 of the 11 offensive players on every play, so at most there are 6 offensive scorers on the field on any given play. There are always 11 defensive scorers. If we are going to add IDP, I say jump in with both feet and add a significant amount of them, like 5-6 starters, 3-4 more bench, and raise keepers to 12.
 
60Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Fri, Oct 20, 2006, 09:00 		I like that idea, totally seperate, randomly ordered snake draft for IDPs (for the first year).
 
61Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Oct 20, 2006, 11:19 		These are some of the issues I was talking about. It will take a lot of work. I think we need to see things objectively and I'm going to try to keep an open mind as well. When I came up with this idea, I didn't think about a separate draft. I figured we'd throw them all in the hat together and the worst teams get a shot at them with the other prizes. Like TB alluded to, what will help your team more, that backup RB who might help you if the #1 goes down, or the stud IDP? The 2nd K or 2nd DST or a big IDP scorer? I Think it opens up our game more and after this year's bye-week constriction, I think we need it more than ever.

I have had a great deal of positive feedback via IM and email with some excellent points, but I'd much rather these people post and share those ideas, comments, suggestions or concerns.
 
62Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 15:22 		I'm pro IDP in general, but I don't think it's a good idea for this league. It's hard to explain why. I think we already unintentionally damaged the leauge by reducing the keepers (I didn't have a strong feeling on it before, but it's pretty clearly a negative to me at this point). I think we're meddling for the sake of meddling. Just my .02
 
63Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 15:48 		If people are interested in this moving forward to the next step where we start looking at some possible scoring formulas along with roster/bench additions, then I think we would then look at least adding one keeper the following year. That would give teams w/o enough starting Os or young O players, the opporutnity to keep a top IDP or even two rater than some scrub.

The trick is to make the IDPs valuable enough w/o hurting the balance of the league overall.
 
64StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 17:34 		Twarpy-

Don't know what's up but you left two bye week players in your lineup this week, while leaving a starting RB (Droughns) and a WR (McCareins) on the bench. It's very possible those non-moves will affect the outcome of your game this week.
 
65Perm Dude
      ID: 479292312
      Mon, Oct 23, 2006, 22:43 		Bledsoe dives for a TD, putting me ahead by a couple of points. He tosses an INT just before the half, putting me down by 1.24 points. But I've got a half to go, right?

WRONG! Parcells pulls Bledsoe for Romo, who promptly throws a tipped INT which the Giants turn into a TD. But Parcells is sticking with Romo. Apparently it'll now take a death to get Bledsoe back out there.

Argh!!
 
66Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Oct 23, 2006, 23:48 		That long TD in garbage time just put the Texans over the top against the Ravens.
 
67Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 11:39 		Could only find one adjustment.

If the season ended today, playoff teams and seeding would be:

AFC
1. Broncos
2. Bengals
3. Texans
4. Colts

NFC
1. Bears
2. Rams
3. 49ers
4. Cardinals
 
68Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 11:52 		New trade approved.

PD offered Lundy for Huard.
 
69Perm Dude
      ID: 19948247
      Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 12:58 		Fast response--thanks GL.
 
70Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 15:19 		The grids in #55 have been updated.

Records revised:

Most Wins Overall (thru 06 wk 7)
1. 52 Ref's Colts
2. 47 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 45 Peter's Cowboys
4. 40 bj21's Rams
5. 39 CCR's Bears

Most Losses Overall (thru 06 wk 7)
1. 44 PD's Browns
2. 43 GL's Chargers
3. 41 SJ's Packers
4. 39 Yokel's Jaguars
4. 39 Dan's Bills
4. 39 sw's Chiefs
4. 39 Toral's Saints

Most times to score 100 points/Overall: (Corrected)
1. 16 Ref's Colts
2. 9 BJ21's Rams
2. 9 StL Cards' 49ers
4 8 CCR's Bears
4. 8 CT's Cardinals
5. 7 Twarpy's Giants

Consecutive Weeks w/Win:
1. 13 Ref's Colts (02 Wk 10 - 03 Wk 6)
2. 12 StL Cards' 49ers (05 wk 6 - 06 Wk 1)
3. 10 CCR's Bears (05 Wk 13 - 06 Wk 6)
4. 9 AF's Falcons (03 wk 2-10)
5. 8 CCR's Bears (04 wk 7-14)
5. 8 Twarpy's Giants (04 wk 5-12)

Most Points Scored Against Season: Corrected
1. 1275.6 Baldwin's Rams (04)
2. 1243.0 Peter N's Cowboys (05)
3. 1229.6 THK's Vikings (05)
4. 1216.5 Twarpy's Giants (02)
5. 1214.7 Promize's Seahawks (04)

Pick'em Perfect Score (12) Week:
Skinneej's Packers (04 Wk 9)
Ref's Colts (04 Wk 9)
Doug's Raiders (06 Wk 7)

Grats to Doug on the perfect Pick-ems week. Skinneej still leads with 61.
 
71Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 6742221
      Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 20:26 		Maybe I should've paid attention to all those discussions in the preseason about setting the schedules, as I find myself with the third highest point total but only 2 wins.
 
72smallwhirled
      ID: 496259
      Wed, Oct 25, 2006, 11:58 		Great One,

I see the trade proposed, I've been thinking about it for a couple of days. I'll try and get back to you soon to figure out if I wanna do this.
 
73Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 25, 2006, 18:20 		Trade approved...

Arizona Cardinals
·Bruce, Isaac WR STL

For

Baltimore Ravens
·Herron, Noah RB GB
 
74TB
      ID: 448553012
      Wed, Oct 25, 2006, 18:25 		Thanks Ref.

Anyone want to trade me a better defense for some next year draft picks?
 
75Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 10:02 		New Trade Approved:

Baltimore Ravens
·Smith, Brad WR NYJ

Offered to:

New York Jets
·Dolphins, DST DST MIA
Offer: And for my 2nd round pick for next year.

 
76TB
      ID: 19425813
      Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 15:55 		Thanks again, Ref. Maybe a little too late, but if I can get a streak going and make the play-offs it's anyone's game from there.
 
77Action Figure
      ID: 329282621
      Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 23:31 		I keep gettting e-mails that say trade offer withdrawn. I am not seeing these offers before they are withdrawn.

Any advice?

Is there a way to let me know when I am offered a trade?

AF
 
78TB
      ID: 448553012
      Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 00:08 		After you log onto the league site click the tab OPTIONS which is to the right of pick'ems and scroll down to EMAIL ALERTS. Make sure the block is checked for "trades offered to me".
 
79Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 00:23 		Also there should be a yellow flag on your home page when you have a trade offer to you.
 
80Perm Dude
      ID: 37955267
      Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 00:34 		And your seat will be alternatively hot and cold. Clammy hands. Difficulty breathing until you can actually look at the trade in question. Then relief. Then anxiety kicks in, a bit of self-doubt perhaps. Difficulty sleeping while you "think about it."

Finally, the trade is cancelled and you are wracked with guilt. You try forgetting about it with drink but that only is a temporary fix...
 
81StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 11:22 		RE: 77
Yeah AF, I was a bit surprised when you didn't accept my Brian Westbrook for Matt Schaub trade, but I've changed my mind now ;)
 
82coldwater coyotes
      ID: 31554112
      Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 12:51 		Cleveland for sale.
 
83Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 12:49 		Great One and Action Figures... 15 mins to kickoff and you still have bye week players in your lineups (with suitable replacements on the bench).
 
84Great One
      ID: 523121411
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 12:50 		I don't but thanks anyway.
 
85Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 13:04 		My bad... it was Peter N (Dallas Cowboys - Roy Williams and Randy McMichael) instead of you... not sure how I got that mixed up. Apologies GO.
 
86Action Figure
      ID: 329282621
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 14:21 		I adjusted my line-up earlier in the week but didn't notice the bye for DET.

I had trouble logging into the CBS site to do a final check at about 12:45EST. I screwed up, I'm not perfect, hopefully it won't matter.



 
87Action Figure
      ID: 329282621
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 19:09 		Bulger to Curtis late should solidify my win.

It would help if LT could get another touchdown. I would take a rushing, receiving or even a passing.

 
88StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 19:46 		Tough to win when 1 player outscores my whole team by himself. LJ with over 40pts alone, and I see LT did the same thing. Wow.
 
89Action Figure
      ID: 329282621
      Sun, Oct 29, 2006, 23:26 		Tough to win when 1 player outscores my whole team by himself. LJ with over 40pts alone, and I see LT did the same thing. Wow.


Yea but your team won the World Series 2 days ago, so life is good.
 
90Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Oct 30, 2006, 23:38 		Might consider trading tiki, rhodes and others to a contender trying to win this year. Looking for a keeper QB/RB with potential.
 
91Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 31, 2006, 00:58 		The feedback about using IDPs has been overwhelmingly positive. There has been some debate on whether or not to use a draft that would simply add round onto the end of it or a quick 4 round snake draft right after keepers are announced and add any bench spots to the end of the current draft. Thus far more people seem to want one extra bench spot instead of two to keep the WW deeper.

So based on this the proposal is looking to be that we'd add 4 active IDP slots, a DL, LB, DB and an IDP flex. And we'd add one bench spot. We can get input or a vote on the bench spots or how we deal with drafting of IDPs. Hopefully we can get input from the league to frame this so we know what is wanted before the vote.

As far as scoring goes, here is what CBS currently offers:

Assisted Tackles (ID only)
Defensive Fumble Recovery TD (ID/DT/DST)
Defensive Points Against
Defensive TD
Defensive/ST Fumble Recovered (ID/DT/DST)
Defensive/ST Fumble Recovery Yards (ID/DT/DST)
Forced Fumble
Interception TD
Interception Yards
Interceptions
Net Passing Yards Against
Pass Defensed (ID only)
Passing Yards Allowed
Points Against Defense/ST
Points Against, Total Points Scored
Rushing Yards Allowed
Sack
Safety
Special Teams Points Against
Tackle (ID/DT/DST)
Total Defensive and Special Teams TD
Yards Allowed

It seems as some of the categories once checked apply to anyone on defense--like INTs etc. It appears that they have to have the same scoring. So if the DST gets -2 for an INT, an IDP would have to get the same amount.

As a comparison, RIFC has this scoring configuration for IDPs:

- Solo Tackles
Award 1.00 point for each 1 solo tackle.
- Assisted Tackles
Award 0.50 points for each 1 assisted tackle.
- Sacks
Award 3.00 points for each 1 sack.
- Half Sacks
Award 1.50 points for each half sack.
- Pass Defensed
Award 1.00 point for each 1 pass defensed.
- Interceptions
Award 3.00 points for each 1 interception.
- Touchdowns scored on Interceptions
Award 6.00 points for touchdowns scored on interceptions in the range of 0 to 110.
- Forced Fumbles
Award 2.00 points for each 1 forced fumble.
- Fumbles Recovered
Award 1.00 point for each 1 fumbles recovered.
- Touchdowns scored on Fumbles Recovered
Award 6.00 points for touchdowns scored on fumbles recovered in the range of 0 to 110.
- Safeties
Award 3.00 points for each 1 safetie.

Obviously we need to do what is best for our league. For instance, if a team DST and an IDP have to get the same amount for a sack--that's a big difference of the current 1 for DST and 3 for IDP. Hopefully CBS can differentiate there but doesn't appear so at first glance.
 
92Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Oct 31, 2006, 10:27 		Not going to have time to do the records or update the cumulative standings etc. right now. Adjustments are done. Turns out that Pete's Cowboys would have won if he'd replaced his bye week players. We shall see how the affects the league moving forward. If the playoffs were to start today AF's Falcons will now have moved into the last spot. Since he'd get in with the PF tiebreaker, let's see how teh 7.9 points he left on the bench leaving bye week players in his lineup affects him when it comes time to determine playoff teams.
 
93Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 01, 2006, 11:51 		Updated Records:

Most Wins Overall (thru 06 wk 8)
1. 52 Ref's Colts
2. 47 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 45 Peter's Cowboys
4. 41 bj21's Rams
5. 40 CCR's Bears

Most Losses Overall (thru 06 wk 8)
1. 45 PD's Browns
2. 43 GL's Chargers
3. 42 SJ's Packers
4. 40 Yokel's Jaguars
4. 40 Toral's Saints

Most times Highest Points For the Week -- Overall:
1. 11 Ref's Colts
2. 9 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 6 Peter N's Cowboys
3. 6 TB's Ravens
5. 5 Twarpy's Giants

Most times to score 100 points/Overall:
1. 16 Ref's Colts
2. 9 BJ21's Rams
2. 9 StL Cards' 49ers
2. 9 CCR's Bears
5. 8 CT's Cardinals

Pick'em Perfect Score (12) Week:
Skinneej's Packers (04 Wk 9)
Ref's Colts (04 Wk 9)
Doug's Raiders (06 Wk 7)
Yokel's Jaguars (06 Wk 8)

Top current streaks: BMD's Texans W7, PD's Browns L6

Grats to Yokel with a perfect Pick'ems. Skinneej still leads with 71.
 
94Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 01, 2006, 12:14 		Overall Standings have been updated on our football page.

Some observations:

Scoring is at an all-time low this year (67.29) and getting worse. Hopefully that will come up a little after all teh bye weeks.

The AFC East and NFC South has dominated our league, having winning records and owning all four of the championships (AFC-E 3, NFC-S 1). They also have dominated the high points for the week. However, the NFC-N has now taken the lead with number of 100 point games.

 
95deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Fri, Nov 03, 2006, 12:45 		Hey all, mind & body not cooperating at the moment. FWIW, I really like the idea of IDPs on defense. Goes back to my Sandbox roots I guess.

I tried to post an "On the Block" message in CBS to put Roethlisberger and Joey Harrington up for trade, but it got the best of me.

They're both available for different reasons....
 
96StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Sat, Nov 04, 2006, 00:25 		At least cbs is acknowledging their pitiful performance in fantasy football this year.
 
97Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Nov 04, 2006, 11:41 		New Trade Approved:

Minnesota Vikings
·Garrard, David QB JAC

For

Oakland Raiders
Offer: in exchange for your 3rd rounder next year
 
98Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 11:43 		Doug, you have an illegal lineup. You need to drop someone before the freeze since there were no instructions to us before the trade and you didn't drop anyone yourself.

There is an issue that we are aware of as far as SW's lineup. (He brought it to my attention). In other leagues Colston is TE-eligible. So he put in 3 RB and two TEs with Colston to see if CBS would count Colston as a TE too and it did. I've looked all through the site and all the info I have at my commish disposal and can't fine anything relevent to why CBS is doing this when it isn't listed as being multiple-position eligible. I've went through all the news I can find on Colston and from what I can gather he's always been a WR in the NFL. My guess is that he was drafted as or played a TE previously and Elias, or whoever the NFL stat source is, listed him originally as a TE. I have emailed CBS for clarification, but don't expect them to get back to me before gametime.

So here is what I've decided to do. I've asked SW for an alternative lineup in case we (StL Cards and I) ultimately decide that it is illegal. He says that if he has to choose an alternate TE, he will put Troupe in and put Fargas on the bench. StL Cards is not around right now, though I've emailed him.

So as of now, I have to make a preliminary decision to allow sw to keep his lineup as is. CBS says it's legal and that is our official stat site. Obviously, we can make changes, but based on other sites saying Colston is TE-eligible and CBS allowing this move, I don't have enough info. to say otherwise at this point.
 
99Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 12:39 		Ref... I know... gonna give THK 10 more mins. to see if he checks into the site (to accept a VERY minor trade which will correct the problem)... otherwise I'll drop a player in advance of kickoff (you already know who).
 
100Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 12:51 		thk is online and on AIM. If it is minor, you've got a couple mins for me to approve it. I just got your email reply.
 
101Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 13:08 		I got email confirmation of the trade. THK couldn't get into the site. The confirmation was made well before the deadline. Therefore, I allowed the trade of a 5th rounder to Doug for Moats.
 
102Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 16:46 		Here is the CBS response of my inquiry of Colston:

Response (Commish Paul) 11/05/2006 11:19 AM
Originally Colston was listed as a TE but we corrected this before the season, however if he was on the team before the change was made he would still have TE eligibility...To correct this you must drop him and add him back...

So Colston should not be eligile as a TE. I will correct sw's lineup now and we will take care of the drop and adding him back to sw's team next week.
 
103Perm Dude
      ID: 38105759
      Sun, Nov 05, 2006, 23:45 		Wow, looks like I pulled off the upset of the season so far.
 
104StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 09:56 		I'm looking for a solid Flex player for a 3rd round draft pick. Only 8 keepers next year, so might as well upgrade your draft position for that older non-keeper. Other ideas welcome. Basically I'm looking to upgrade over Lloyd and/or Barlow.
 
105Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 13:00 		This year has been the least amount of input and dialogue ever for this league.

I have had three teams inquire about Tiki. He could be the rare example of an expensive rental that could tilt the balance for a team to win it all. None have made a formal offer but after the loss this week and more injuries, I am pretty much toast this year.

I need a RB for next year and possibly a QB. I'd also consider upgrading one of my current keepers. I've been asked about a first rounder and may consider that in addition to a player to make it work, but it will be like a 2nd rounder if the team wins it all.
 
106Myboyjack
      ID: 27651610
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 13:19 		Tiki sure would look good on my team....
 
107 blackjackis21
      Dude
      ID: 034837521
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 13:44 		If anyone's looking to next year and interested in Charlie Frye, Jamal Lewis, Randy Moss, maybe Matt Jones, heck even Donovan McNabb if the price is right, I'd be wanting to do a 2-fer or 3-fer upgrade (hugely for D. McNabb) at RB or WR. Not necessarily just looking for this year - hoping to improve on my 8 keepers for next year too.
 
108Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 15:52 		I'm not a good promoter like Species is, but if you don't get Tiki, not only will it not help you, but whoever does get him will hurt your playoff chances or title shot.
 
109Perm Dude
      ID: 141053613
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 16:15 		Clearly you're not Species, ref. You forgot to throw in references to obscure foreign players who aren't (yet) even draftable.
 
110StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 16:52 		You mean like Kinoshita Noriaki ?
 
111Doug
      ID: 361412812
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 20:10 		One idea that we discussed about this time last year but never implemented was the notion of every team dropping their lowest score in pick 'ems. The reason for this is, if you mess up a single week and forget to submit your pickems (or to click "submit" after picking them)... then boom, you're basically out of the running. You'll notice that some teams will pick consistently the first 2-4 weeks of the season then have all zeros... I speculate this is no small part that after the first zero, what's the point? Whereas if you could drop the zero, then you'd at least still have a shot.

For example, here is the current point tally (not including this weeks games) followed by what the point tally would be if everyone dropped their lowest game (I've omitted teams with two or more zeros so far this season)...

Current
71 Green Bay Packers
68 Indianapolis Colts
68 New York Jets
65 Jacksonville Jaguars
65 San Francisco 49ers
63 New Orleans Saints
62 Baltimore Ravens
58 Cincinnati Bengals
57 Seattle Seahawks
56 Oakland Raiders
52 Philadelphia Eagles

With Drop-1-Game
64 Green Bay Packers
63 Indianapolis Colts
62 New York Jets
60 Jacksonville Jaguars
59 San Francisco 49ers
57 New Orleans Saints
57 Baltimore Ravens
57 Seattle Seahawks
56 Oakland Raiders
55 Cincinnati Bengals
48 Philadelphia Eagles


As you can see, the ordinal team rankings don't change much... but the spread tightens considerably. I think this keeps the game a lot more interesting for a lot more teams... I've been submitting pick'ems since my "zero" week sort of out of a sense of duty, but I can't say I really enjoy it since I know I'm out of the race completely. Even with Drop-1-Game I wouldn't be doing so hot, but making up 8 points at least seems doable... whereas 15 points is laughable.

I realize it may be too late to implement this change for this year, but rather than let it slip again and find ourselves in the same situation AGAIN next year, I'd like to propse we vote on it now for implementation next year... that is, unless Green Bay really wants to sacrifice their current lead! ;)
 
112GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 22:07 		Ditto what Doug said.
When I missed the one week while on vacation I just quit from there.
And, I did have a chance until then.

Cliff
 
113blackjackis21
      Dude
      ID: 034837521
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 22:28 		Yep - forgot about it one week and figured why bother. Of course, there's no guarantee I wouldn't forget a second week...
 
114Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 22:47 		Yet when we broached the subject preseason, we didn't get people to back it. I wanted this implemented as well. But we can't call for a vote over every single proposal. There has to be some people that say yeah, that's a good idea, I'll back it. I honestly didn't think it had a prayer based on the lack of support it garnished.
 
115Perm Dude
      ID: 141053613
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 22:54 		Well, by now I think there are enough people concentrating on it to make the proposal worthwhile. In the preseason I'm guessing more people are doing draft research than pick 'ems rule changes.
 
116 StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 23:25 		Actually I was planning on implementing that next year without calling for a vote. Just seems to make sense. The other option seems to be to not do it at all. I don't really think a vote is necessary for something like this, but if there are objections, then please send them to me and we'll consider a vote on it.
 
117THK
      ID: 42917269
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 23:45 		.04? Are you kidding me? I hate this game.
 
118Doug
      ID: 361412812
      Mon, Nov 06, 2006, 23:56 		Someday you'll be on the winning end of a close call. Unfortunately, I have no idea when that day will be.
 
119Peter N.
      ID: 581018320
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 02:52 		CC - offer is on the table for you. Let me know what you think when you get a chance.
 
120TB
      ID: 448553012
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 19:10 		THK, that is rough. I don't know if losing by .04 or losing by 50 is worse. I was looking at the playoff rules and noticed the historical records. That score will go into the league record books as the 2nd smallest margin of victory ever.
 
121THK
      ID: 42917269
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 19:33 		It would not hurt near as bad if my team preformed the first few weeks. Falling back to 4-5 hurts badly though, especially when I came into the season thinking Super Bowl possibilities. CJ hasn't really helped me out too much...
 
122TB
      ID: 448553012
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 19:46 		I was looking at your roster (Palmer, Barber, Jones, CJ, Steve Smith, etc.) and in a league this large that is a very good team. You could go on a tear and score 100+ points a week from here on out. It sucks that Chad is having an off year.
 
123StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Nov 08, 2006, 09:20 		I approved a trade yesterday between Coldwater Coyotes' Broncos and Pete's Cowboys which sent Brunell and a 3rd round pick to the Cowboys for Antwaan Randle El and Pete's 2nd round pick.
 
124Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Wed, Nov 08, 2006, 10:04 		Anyone interested in Anthony Thomas for a playoff push for the next few weeks let me know. I would move him for a draft pick or perhaps combined with Chambers to upgrade my #1 WR slot some or possibly turn him into a low end starting RB.

Rotowire says 2-4 weeks on McGahee. And don't forget this week... The Bills' opponent, Indianapolis, allows the most rushing yards per game in the NFL (165.4).
 
125Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 08, 2006, 19:22 		as if my season couldn't get any worse...:)
 
126Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 08, 2006, 20:27 		Not sure how many people enjoy this or even look at it, but here it is again--at least for this week.

Updated Records

Most Wins Overall (thru 06 wk 9)
1. 52 Ref's Colts
2. 48 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 45 Peter's Cowboys
4. 42 bj21's Rams
5. 40 CCR's Bears
5. 40 mbj's Bengals

Most Losses Overall (thru 06 wk 9)
1. 45 PD's Browns
2. 43 GL's Chargers
2. 43 SJ's Packers
4. 41 Toral's Saints
5. 40 Yokel's Jaguars
5. 40 sw's Chiefs

Most times Highest Points For the Week -- Season:
1. 6 StL Cards' 49ers (05)
2. 4 Ref's Colts (02)
3. 3 TB's Ravens (06)
3. 3 Ref's Colts (04)
3. 3 Peter N's Cowboys (04)
3. 3 Ref's Colts (03)
3. 3 AF's Falcons (03)
3. 3 mbj's Bengals (02)

Most times Highest Points For the Week -- Overall:
1. 11 Ref's Colts
2. 9 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 7 TB's Ravens
4. 6 Peter N's Cowboys
5. 5 Twarpy's Giants

Smallest Margin of Victory:
1. .02 PG's Chiefs over Coyotes' Broncos (03 Wk 8)
2. .04 Coyotes' Broncos over thk's Vikings (06 Wk 9)
3 . 06 thk's Vikings over Promize's Seahawks (05 Wk 3)
3. .06 Promize's Seahawks over StL Cards' 49ers (04 Wk 1)
5. .08 AP10's Ravens over Ref's Colts (02 Wk 7)

Most times to score 100 points/Overall:
1. 16 Ref's Colts
2. 9 BJ21's Rams
2. 9 StL Cards' 49ers
2. 9 CCR's Bears
5. 8 CT's Cardinals
5. 8 TB's Ravens
 
127THK
      ID: 42917269
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 16:28 		Ref-
I like it and appreciate the record keeping...
 
128Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 10:11 		New trade approved:

New York Jets
·Thomas, Anthony RB BUF
San Francisco 49ers
For
·49ers, DST DST SF
Offer: GO's Jets acquire 2nd Round pick in exchange for 49er's 5th.
 
129Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 11:30 		Anyone with interest in Jerry Porter - or possibly Aaron Rodgers (perhaps you have an older QB, Rodgers seems like a great keeper candidate)... I would like to pair either one up to upgrade either my Houston D or SF Defense.
 
130Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 11:37 		Also, in the draft pick notes, I believe this one is worded wrong as I traded the Dolphins D for the 2nd rounder.

10-26 TB's Ravens receive GO's Jets 2nd round pick (Smith/Dolphins DST)
 
131Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 11:48 		Thanks GO. Think it's fixed now. Pretty expensive trade to get a RB for a couple weeks, but if he beats bj21 because of it, it was worth it. Could be more than a couple weeks as a bonus.

I fixed the Colston issue by dropping him off sw's roster and adding him back.
 
132Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 12:03 		That trade makes Tiki's value worth even more. ;)
 
133Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 02:59 		Dunno if anyone cares but me (just for amusement's sake), but here's pick-em's results under "next year's" system.

With Drop-1-Game
72 Green Bay Packers
72 Indianapolis Colts
68 New York Jets
67 Jacksonville Jaguars
65 San Francisco 49ers
64 New Orleans Saints
64 Baltimore Ravens
62 Oakland Raiders
61 Seattle Seahawks
60 Cincinnati Bengals
54 Philadelphia Eagles
 
134Perm Dude
      ID: 1110231210
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 12:47 		Sportsline down. Nice timing.
 
135Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 14:36 		It was down for a minute but came right back.
 
136Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 15:33 		Hey THK, looks like ocho-cinco is having an ok week for ya this time. ;-)
 
137Doug
      ID: 31655290
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 15:38 		...which tends to mean the same for Palmer. ;-)
 
139Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 11:08 		No the deadline is on that Thursday, the day of the first game of week 13, before the freeze.
 
141StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 11:25 		OK, that is what I thought it should be, but the wording didn't seem clear. It is basically allowing trades on Thursday since it is a night game.

So correction, the trade deadline is Novemeber 29th, but trades will be allowed up to the start of the game on Thursday November 30th IF a commish is around to approve it prior to the start of the game. ie. no retro active moves to accomodate a late trade if no commish is around.
 
142blackjackis21
      Dude
      ID: 034837521
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 11:54 		Nice win this weekend StL - here's to a good stretch run.
 
143StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 12:00 		Thanks BJ21, I wanted that one badly :)

I would like it better if it showed me ahead of you in the standings though ;)

Good luck to you down the stretch also as we need another winner from the South Division!
 
144Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 13:32 		Adjustments have been made.

I had a deal via email that I accepted last week for Tiki, but after further review, the other team decided to hold off for a couple more weeks. So having the league's leading rusher on my squad for another week was the difference in winning or losing this week. I had several deals for Betts for starting WRs. While those offers were certainly fair, I gambled and decided to decline those in the hopes that Portis got hurt. Betts is a big scoring threat when he's the starting RB. Now I suddenly find myself with Tiki and Betts. And the Colts' decision to split the RB backfield with Rhodes and Addai, suddenly Rhodes is going to get 7-10 points again even w/o a TD.

Now if I can get Berrian and Gonzo and the Cincy D healthy, my team might be able to compete again. Might be too little too late as I'm way behind in points, but we shall see. It's not surprising that my email box is blowing up this morning for Betts, but the offers aren't even close. If I truly feel I have no chance to make the playoffs based on record or moreover the tiebreaker, then I'll once again consider moving them then--unless I get an offer I can't refuse in the meantime. Since Betts is not only likely to the RB for the rest of the year but may be a #1 RB next year with some team, obviously his value has skyrocketed.
 
145Peter N.
      ID: 581018320
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 13:54 		Well, my team has officially hit the sh!tter with the benching of Brunell and Portis out for the year with a broken hand.

If anyone has a QB they'd be willing to spare for a 3rd rounder, send me an offer. I'm not going to go any higher than that and am not going to trade a keeper player either. My only alternative is to hope Leftwich gets his job back and while that doesnt look promising, its still better than me overpaying again for a QB just to have him benched.

Good luck to bj21 and cards! Represent the South fellas. Wish I could be up there too, but this just wasnt my year.
 
146Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 15:41 		Updated Records:

Most Wins Overall (thru 06 wk 9)
1. 53 Ref's Colts
2. 49 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 45 Peter's Cowboys
4. 42 bj21's Rams
5. 41 CCR's Bears

Most Losses Overall (thru 06 wk 9)
1. 46 PD's Browns
2. 44 GL's Chargers
3. 43 SJ's Packers
4. 41 Toral's Saints
4. 41 Yokel's Jaguars
4. 41 sw's Chiefs

Most points Scored Week:
1. 149.80 Ref's Colts (04 Wk 8)
2. 140.82 AF's Falcons (06 Wk 4)
3. 140.77 Baldwin's Rams (03 Wk 14)
4. 140.31 Coyotes' Broncos (04 Wk 13)
5. 138.15 thk's Vikings (06 Wk 10)

Most times to score 100 points/Overall:
1. 16 Ref's Colts
2. 10 StL Cards' 49ers
3. 9 BJ21's Rams
3. 9 CCR's Bears
5. 8 CT's Cardinals
5. 8 TB's Ravens

I'll have the franchise standings updated on the G20/24 website shortly.
 
147Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 15, 2006, 14:57 		Current playoff look:

AFC
#1 broncos 8-2 808.4 #1 West
#2 bengals 8-2 747.2 #1 East
#3 texans 8-2 717
#4 ravens 6-4 770.6

In the hunt: colts 6-4 661.7, raiders 5-5 752, bills 5-5 694.4

Longshot: jets 5-5 610.8

NFC
#1 bears 8-2 728.6 #1 North
#2 rams 7-3 780.5 #1 South
#3 49ers 7-3 750.9
#4 falcons 5-5 767.3

In the Hunt: vikings 5-5 749.8, cardinals 5-5 724.8, eagles 5-5 631.4

Longshot: saints 4-6 642.3
 
148Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Wed, Nov 15, 2006, 16:05 		Jets in the playoff hunt!!! whohoo!!! lol...
 
149Great One
      ID: 539581613
      Wed, Nov 15, 2006, 16:08 		Strange how fantasy is imitating reality with the Jets and.. the Jets. Seen as a bottom feeder, no expectations, new coaching staff, lottery pick (I think we both even had the #3 pick, right?) and borderline in the playoff hunt right now.

Who would have thunk it?!?!
 
150Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Wed, Nov 15, 2006, 18:49 		So McNabb and Buckhalter have been given credit for a 55yd TD Pass after a scoring change. Did this impact anyone?
 
151Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Nov 15, 2006, 18:56 		CBS is not showing that--though only McNabb was in the starting lineup and it would not change the outcome if it is added.
 
152StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Nov 16, 2006, 00:37 		Do you have a link for that scoring change? I don't see anything about it on cbs or yahoo or anywhere I've looked so far. Last I heard was they ruled it was a fumble returned for a TD.

Are they now saying it was a deflected pass? Did they change the rule that the ball had to be touched by a defensive player first before another offensive player could catch it?
 
153Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Nov 16, 2006, 11:16 		From CBS:

Occasionally the NFL will make an official scoring change a day or more after games are played. If we receive their scoring change by the end of the day on Tuesday, we will update the site (anything we receive after that will not be included).

In Football Commissioner leagues, the commissioner can include scoring changes that are made on Wednesday or later by using the “Adjust Scoring” feature at the bottom of the Scoreboard/GameCenter page. For commissioners that wish to adjust the scoring to include the NFL’s change on Wednesday for the Eagles/Redskins game, the official information is as follows:

The Elias Sports Bureau reviewed film of the Redskins-Eagles game and changed the ruling on a TD by Correll Buckhalter from a 37 yard Offensive Fumble Recovery TD (off of a reception and fumble by Reggie Brown) to a 55 yard passing TD from Donovan McNabb. The following stats have changed as a result:

• Donovan McNabb: from 222 passing yards to 257 passing yards.
• Donovan McNabb: from 1 passing TD to 2 passing TDs.
• Correll Buckhalter: from 1 own fumble recovery for 37 yards and a TD to 0 fumble recoveries.
• Correll Buckhalter: from 0 receptions to 1 reception for 55 yards and a TD.
* Reggie Brown: from 2 receptions for 38 yards to 1 reception for 18 yards

So I manually deducted 2 points from AZ Cardinals for Brown and added 5.4 points to StL Rams team for McNabb. Buckhalter was not in the starting lineup. No outcomes were affected.
 
154Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Nov 16, 2006, 16:00 		Response (Commish Roger) 11/16/2006 02:38 PM
Randell Williams position will be updated tonight to show him as a TE. If he is already on a roster you will need to drop the player and then add them back (do this tomorrow after players’ position has been updated.)
 
155Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Nov 17, 2006, 09:50 		Time for a new thread.