Forum: foot
Page 4841
Subject: Super Bowl Discussion

  Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 11:26
Even if it rains, it's not like the Colts are going to be throttled.

And the Colts D didn't get run over one time that Bob Sanders played this year. Of course, he's not the only key guy that has been (and is) out this year. Harper's injury is problematic as it doesn't look like he will be able to play today.
 
1Boxman
      ID: 211139621
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 13:20 		It's hard to be objective about this game because I've been a Bears fan as long as I can remember.

The Bears do create a lot of pressure on the QB and have a deep rotation of D-lineman to cause problems. The front four are going to have to be the ones to get to Manning because they can't afford to blitz 1 or 2 guys consistently and leave Harrison, Wayne or Clark open. They have been able to create a lot of pressure using the front four so it would not surprise if they are able to get to Manning.

There's been a lot of talk about the Colts D lately, but two playoff games don't really constitute a turnaround in my book. I still think their run D is suspect, even with Sanders, and that could be the death of them. Their greatest weakness is the Bears greatest strength. I don't see how that bodes well for Indy.

The Bears are extremely good at creating turnovers and Manning is extremely good at creating turnovers in the playoffs. Not a good combination for the Colts.

The best way for the Bears to lose this game is for Grossman to go out and throw 3 picks. That'll do it. If the Bears are able to run Jones & Benson like they did against the Saints I don't see how the Colts can win.

I don't think there will be a blowout either way. The Bears are only designed to blow people out when Grossman is on like he was for the first six weeks or so of the season. The Saints game was an aberration blowout in that it was a total team effort that dismantled them. The nature of the Bears is to create turnovers on defense, run the ball, and pass after the run is set up.

My bottom line for this game is that if the Bears are successful at running the ball, game over. They will win. They will drain the clock and score points and it won't matter what the Colts do.

I've also heard the Colts special teams aren't that hot. Of course they've got Vinatieri, but I'm referring to them as an overall special teams unit. The Bears have outstanding special teams play between Gould, Hester, and their coverage. That probably will weigh in here somewhere.

The Colts can win this game by denying the Bears the ability to run the ball by getting them down early. If the Bears get down 10 points early on I don't see Jones & Benson getting a lot of carries which means Grossman will have to win it. The best thing the Colts can do is to force Grossman to win a game.
 
2Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 13:26 		The Bears play in the NFC.

The Colts play in the AFC.

There is no comparison. The Bears would not have won a single AFC division.
 
3Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 13:39 		Nice post Boxman.

I have been able to watch every Colts game and almost every Bears game this year. I try hard to always remain objective in my analysis--though a HUGE Colts fan.

The Colts D has been great in THREE playoff games. Sanders didn't play much until the playoffs. The Defense is based around Sanders. The Colts run stopping ability isn't the greatest in the league, but most of the injuries are gone now. Besides Sanders several Colts players were banged up this year and unable to play. Many of those guys are back now--including Sanders. The Colts haven't had one bad game since they've been back (playoffs). Playing against three playoff teams--can't say it's just luck.

As a Colts fan, I am not as worried about the run defense as much as I am special teams coverage. That is the Colts biggest weakness and the Bears biggest threat in Hester. The Colts responded for the playoffs by adding some skill players on ST coverage and they've been better--though still not great.

The Colts O-line is one of the best in the league. They are facing a front 7 in the Bears that is one of the best in the league. That's going to be a war. Still I trust in Manning's ability to tire out that defense and audible out. Still need the Colts D to keep the Bears D on the field to help out.

A key I think will be the Colts' ability to put pressure on Grossman. When Gross man gets rushed, he panics and forces things. He's been better lately about thrwoing the ball out of bounds, but that wasn't the case most of the year. He also takes chances and just throws the ball up and hopes that Berrian can run under it--which they've been successful at times--but also has had a few picks doing that as well. Pressure on Grossman will lead to picks and poor decision making and keep the Bears D on the field to wear down against the Colts O.

The Colts must catch their passes. Along with the bad rushing D they had for a stretch this year, their receivers had a major case of the drops--every one of them. That kept the colts tired (backups) defense on the field to get destroyed even more.

The Bears RBs are too good to totally shut down or so one would think, but look what happened to LJ and Lewis, etc. If the Colts can score early, the Bears are going to get out of their game plan and be forced to pass more--causing more poor decision making by Grossman.

If the Colts can keep the Bears from scoring on D or getting great field position via turnovers or ST return, it will be very tough for the Bears to be in the game, let alone win.
 
4Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:09 		Harper is going to get an injection in his ankle and test it out before the game. He is expected to be active and at least try to play now. Not sure how effective he will be.
 
5Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:17 		Personally, I think that the best run D for the Colts is Peyton and the offense. I think that teams got away from their game plan because of them. The most Attempts from everyone except qb's they got was 20, and they still averaged 4.6 yds per carry. The next is 19, and it was 4.05 per carry. And Lewis averaged 4.1, I don't call that shutting down. The only one they shut down was KC and LJ.

The Bears ran 34 and 44 times in each game. I expect somewhere between that. With the Avg. of 3.85 ypc of the Colts, that would give the Bears 150. But without the KC game, it is 4.3 ypc, and 170 yds. That takes time off the clock, and less time with the ball in Peyton's hands. Plus, the Colts ST aren't that good as a group, and it is a Bears strength. That should give them good field position, which should lead to points.

That being said, the Colts will have to have a performance like that against KC, and put the ball in Rexs' hands.
 
6Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 14:33 		Here here to MBJ in post two. I think the Colts will expose the Bears as the worst team to play in the Super Bowl. Blow out by over 20 points.
 
7Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 16:21 		Electro, you're talking like you've watched the Colts all year and you're obviously just hearing some things second hand. While the Colts ST coverage team isn't strong, their overall ST unit is pretty good from their K/P in Win-atieri and Smith to their own punt/kick return teams. Smith has a great ability to cough and corner or even kick it into the end zone if he wants to try and keep it out of Hester's hands.

The Colts TOOK those other teams out of their offenses and the Pats, well they could have won the game with one more first down and the Colts refused to let that happen.

Electro, the key to your post is your first word as everything you seem to post about is personal and it's that bias against Manning and the Colts.

Leading to points? Even when the Bears have good field position they often have to put it in the hands, err rather foot, of Gould. It's funny when the Bears score more points from their D than their O. So if the Bears DST doesn't score, or doesn't score a lot, they could get blown out.

On the other hand, as a Colts fan I don't take anything for granted. I mean they should have beaten the Steelers last year too and their O-Line had their worst day ever. You just never know what's going to happen. So as good as I feel about the Colts today, I know things can go wrong really quick and you're fighting that the rest of the game. It happened that way with the Pats though and the Colts still manages to overcome and beat a very good team.
 
8Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 16:24 		As I posted in the playoffs thread:

Including playoffs contests, the two Super Bowl XLI franchises had five common opponents (Patriots, Jets, Giants, Bills and Dolphins) in 2006.

The Indianapolis Colts, who played New England both during the regular season and in the AFC Championship Game, posted a 6-0 record against common opponents. The Chicago Bears fashioned a 3-2 mark.
 
9Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 16:45 		I actually watched a lot of the Colts games this year.
You repeated what I said in different words. The Colts TOOK those other teams out of their offenses.... I said: I think that the best run D for the Colts is Peyton and the offense.
I saw the Colts coverage team let the Pats get excellent field position after scoring drives. Hester did not return his punts and kick offs with Dazling moves like Dante Hall, he followed good blocking for the most part. If the Colts play like they did a couple of weeks ago of ST, that will be a big problem.
And so what if the Bears score a lot of points with the D, they still count. And with the way Peyton has been coughing up the ball, that could be true in the SB too.

 
10Boxman
      ID: 211139621
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 17:49 		Keep in mind I'm 4 tequila shots and 4 beers into my Super Bowl extravagaza.

A key I think will be the Colts' ability to put pressure on Grossman. When Gross man gets rushed, he panics and forces things. He's been better lately about thrwoing the ball out of bounds, but that wasn't the case most of the year. He also takes chances and just throws the ball up and hopes that Berrian can run under it--which they've been successful at times--but also has had a few picks doing that as well. Pressure on Grossman will lead to picks and poor decision making and keep the Bears D on the field to wear down against the Colts O.

That's exactly it Ref. Grossman will be the determining factor in this game. Win or lose.
 
11Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 18:28 		Oh yeah Ref, those Colts ST are great.
 
12Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 18:35 		Now Manning throws a pick.
 
13Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 18:47 		yawn....
 
40RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 19:18 		Some nice thumps laid so far.
 
41Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 19:58 		We've just seen history, Vinny misses a FG in the SB.
 
42Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 20:16 		Best half-time show ever.
 
43Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 20:18 		If anyone ever outdoes Jimi Hendricks it will be Prince.
 
45Pancho Villa
      ID: 37154320
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 20:23 		It will be if Prince gets electrocuted. I've always liked him, but his Hendrix-tribute guitar work is lacking. And what's with the 1999 intro tease, then we get Proud Mary instead? Purple Rain was fitting.
 
46Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 21:01 		Amazing that the Bears are still only one td and 2pts convert to tie. One of the Worst SB's I have ever watched.
 
47Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 21:13 		Could someone correct me if I am wrong. If you catch the ball, and you hit the ground and it bobbles, it is not a catch right? Seems to me the ball can't move, no?
 
48Tree
      ID: 43133321
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 21:34 		I've always liked him, but his Hendrix-tribute guitar work is lacking.

that goes without saying. NO ONE was as good as Jimi Hendrix, but Prince is one of the top 5 living guitarists.
 
49Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:03 		As much as I don't like the Colts, I have a soft spot for Dungy. Peyton is one of the greatest, and it is hard to keep someone like that without a championship. They didn't win like most thought that and Indy team would win. They won somewhat ugly, but effecient with solid D and running game. Manning made mistakes, but managed to offense and put them in a position to win. Congrats to the fans. It has been a long time coming, with a lot of heartache along the way. Sometimes it is sweeter like that, you can savour it more. Have fun celebrating.
 
50Texas Flood
      ID: 40342614
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:11 		Joe "The Satch" Satriani is #1!

Amazing that the half time show got more positivie posts than the game itself. What a crap fest that game was. I was actually flipping channels the entire game.

You guys are right Prince was the most interesting and exciting part of the whole deal tonight.

Nice to see coach Shula too!
 
51tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:16 		How does peyton win MVP? Addai won that game.
 
52Texas Flood
      ID: 40342614
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:16 		IMHO the MVP should have been the "O" line and Rhodes/Addai. Those guys sealed the deal.
 
53tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:24 		Still no team in the superbowl has scored 28 points. When is that going to happen!
 
54allhair allstars
      Sustainer
      ID: 50902421
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:47 		re: 51 I don't think they could give it to Addai with Rhodes sitting there with a fine performance as well...

Also, I'm surprised a guy with the handle "Texas Flood" wouldn't pick Stevie Ray Vaughn over Satriani... ah me... :)
 
55tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 22:58 		Yeah but Addai had the "more important yards" Rhodes sort of piled on late. Dont forget Addai did catch 10 passes which is 1 short of a superbowl record to go along with his 77 yds rushing. I thought it was a no brainer. Manning had a good game but certainly not MVP. I wouldve rather seen co MVPs for Rhodes and Addai then Manning getting it.
 
56Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 45022307
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 23:05 		Not one good commercial.
 
57tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 23:11 		I found the commercials not only not good, but violent. Maybe im getting old but it seems every commercial was going for slapstick comedy that wasnt funny. I.E Paper rock commercial for the Bud. Car crash commercial for doritos and it went on and on. Very weird.

Useless stat #2. Teams are now 2-6 when returning a kickoff for a TD.
 
58Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 23:33 		The only commercial I liked was the K Fed one. Easily the best thing he's ever done.
 
59Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 00:10 		WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
60Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 00:17 		Re: 11 Please see post 4. I think I called this game pretty well there.

3 big plays accounted for all of the Bears' points: Hester return, Jones run, Personal Foul for hit out of bounds.

As much as the Colts dominated the Bears, they didn't score as many points as they could or should have. Still as long as they win, who cares? (Well outside of the people who bet on point spreads, etc.)
 
61Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 00:20 		MVP: Rhodes had some HUGE runs and a TD. It wasn't all late. Addai was big too but I think they cancelled each other out. Without a clear cut alternative, Manning gets it for his overall game I guess. It really was a team effort and several could have shared that MVP trophy.
 
62Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 811371220
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 00:56 		Yeah, I think they gave it to Manning because he's Peyton Manning - he's been the MVP of this team for 9 years, but there were good performances all around for the colts. Heck, Bob Sanders could have got it too with a forced fumble, pick, and several key stops.

Hard to believe it though that the Colts finally won it. Growing up in Indy, and seeing the Pacers get close time and time again, and now the Colts the last few years, this is amazing.
 
63Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 01:05 		Yeah, first championship in Indy since the ABA Pacers won it in 70, 72 and 73.
 
64sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 07:39 		Yeah but Addai had the "more important yards" Rhodes sort of piled on late. Dont forget Addai did catch 10 passes which is 1 short of a superbowl record to go along with his 77 yds rushing. I thought it was a no brainer. Manning had a good game but certainly not MVP. I wouldve rather seen co MVPs for Rhodes and Addai then Manning getting it.

My thoughts precisely.

Not one good commercial.

The one I saw and laughed hard over, apparently wasnt even a Superbowl commercial. (Though IIRC, it aired after kickoff...) Cant recall who it was for...but there was an animated shot through a petshop window of a rabbit and a gerbil. You could hear a "squeak-squeal" and the camera pans back and the rabbit is pushing down on a mouse as he says to the gerbil..."You sure pushing this thing will get us online?"
Gerbils says, "I dunno. Maybe oyu gotta drag it."
So the rabbit drags the mouse through the wood shavings you'd have at the bottom of a gerbil/hamster cage.
At the end, the gerbil picks the mouse up by the tail and says, "Aha! It isnt plugged in!"
Whereupon Bobcat Goldthwaite (as the mouse) screams, "Dont you dare!"
 
65sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 07:41 		by far IMHO, the worst commercial was the Garmin Navigation commercial...just plain stupid in my book.
 
66TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 07:54 		"What a crap fest that game was."
"One of the Worst SB's I have ever watched"

I don't know what some of you are looking for in your perfect superbowl game. I thought the first half was quite possibly the best 1st half in the superbowl, ever. Prince was great in the half-time show. The Ref's got all the big calls right throughout the game. Yeah, Grossman was a disappointment in the 2nd half, but the outcome of the game was still in the balance until midway through the 4th quarter.

In the last 20 years, the only other two superbowls that I've enjoyed as much were the Rams/Titans and Giants/Bills. As far as MVP goes, it was a tough call. Rhodes had the best stats (100 plus yards and a TD), but Addai was key on some of the early drives and had the most combined rushing/receiving yards. I was hoping to see Sanders get it. Several key defensive plays in this game and the real heart of the team through-out this playoff run.
 
67sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 07:59 		agree with ya TB, that it was far from a "bad" game. Despite Indy outplaying Chi for the first 50 or so minutes, Chi wasnt out of it honestly, until they were down to 5 mins to play.

(btw, the commercial I refer to above..someone on another forum had commented about as well. It was a Blockbuster commercial aired very early on in the game.)
 
68Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 08:08 		If you go to Break.com you can see all the commercials.
Really bad this year.
2.5 mil for that crap?
There are more than a few companies that will have openings in their VP of Marketing positions today.
 
69Texas Flood
      ID: 40342614
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 08:10 		#66, I'm not sure what I was expecting either. I just found the game to be very anti climatic after watching the play off's. Perhaps it was the weather, crowd or the usual terrible announcers, but the game just did'nt hold my interest.

I'm sure that Peyton was the pre ordained MVP if Indy won the game.
 
70TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 08:13 		There were some crappy commercials during the SB, but again I wonder how high the bar has risen and what everyone expects?

Ones I thought were funny:
Robert Goulet's Emerald Nuts
K-Fed The Rollin VIP
Doritos Car Crash
Taco Bell Lions
Bud Light Slapping
Bud Light Rock, Paper, Scissors
Bud Light Language Class with Carlos Mencia
Bud Light Auctioneer
Fed Ex Don't Judge a Name (Bob, Joy, Eileen, Mr. Turkeyneck)
Sierra Mist Beard Comb Over
Doritos Checkout Girl
Bud The Beer Stealing Crabs
Fed Ex on the Moon (well, the end when the guy got zapped...lol)
The careerbuilder and godaddy ones were okay.
Sure, there were some stinkers but overall there were plenty of funny ones.
 
71TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 08:31 		http://www.ifilm.com/superbowl/

I forgot to mention the Ultraman commercial. Yeah, it was silly but what a flashback. My friend's son and my son both thought he was supposed to be a power ranger.

I kept expecting to see somebody get wasted in the Coke Grand Theft Auto commercial. Like when he pulled the guy out of his car, but only to give him a coke.
 
72Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 08:43 		My views on others' views...

re 56 MITH,...not one Great commercial, but a few good ones. I have to acknowledge that i was watching on antenna -- which is the only way Canadians can see the same commercials Americans see. All Canadians watching on cable don't see the American commercials; when they come on the network cuts to a feed of Canadian commercials. I usually watch on cable, but this year watched on antenna. So I haven't seen as many SB commercials as Americans have. The classic commercial-provider, Budweiser, was weak this year. Coke commercials were ok. Good commercials: the Goulet commercial. Extremely clever...unless you're too young to know who Robert Goulet is.... Have to say no commercials were memorable.

I'm glad TB piped in to defend the quality of the game, against the critics. I can't go all the way with him. The first half wasn't the best first half ever, and Prince's half-time show wasn't the best ever. BUT they were both well above average.
The rain kept it from being a great SB. We didn't get to see either team at its best (and what a different game it would be if Rex Grossman had the skill of handling a wet ball).

The game in quality was easily in the top quarter of SBs.

Peyton Manning was unquestionably the MVP; an absolutely clear choice IMO.

Toral
 
73tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:27 		Unquestionable? Really?

Mannings stats are probably most similar to non MVP Jeff Hostetler of Super bowl XXV.

Hostetler 20-32 222 yds 1 TD 0 Int.

Manning 25-38 247 yds 1 TD 1 Int.

Ottis Anderson got the MVP with a 24 carries 102 yd 1 TD performance.
Rhodes 21 carries 113 yds 1 TD.

The giants had the ball for 40 minutes.
The Colts had it for 38 minutes.

3rd down efficiency
Colts 8-18
Giants 9-16.

The only difference between Manning and Hostetler is a name.
 
74Perm Dude
      ID: 5013158
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:31 		Unfortunately, in this "So So Bowl," somebody had to get it. Manning was the best of the bunch.

 
75tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:35 		Nope, he wasnt.
 
76Perm Dude
      ID: 5013158
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:39 		ROFL! OK, I guess you have been rooting for Jeff Hostetler to get it? Or are you using previous, bad MVP selections to try to justify another bad MVP selection?

It was a bad SB. Let's just do away with the award this time. Or give it to Prince.
 
77WiddleAvi
      ID: 4356159
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:42 		I thought Bob Sanders deserved it. 1 Interception, 1 Forced Fumble and some very nice tackles.
 
78sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:44 		7 players deserved it...

The Indy O-line, Addai and Rhodes. THOSE, are the players who took the game away from the opponent and secured it for themselves.
 
79GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 09:51 		Surprised nobody mentioned the Snickers commercial.
Was laughing so hard, I almost fell out of my chair.

Agree with the group that says it was a good game overall.

Weather had a lot to do with it.

Bottom line was that the Colts stepped up as a team and did what they had to do.

And not a bad call for me on the Hester KO Return for a TD to start the game. (In the other Thread)

The Colts wised up quicker than I thought they would on not kicking to him.

Cliff
 
80tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:00 		PD,

I say if you give to OJ Anderson, instead of Hostetler. Then why give it to Manning over Rhodes? The only thing that is different is name recognition. Regardless, I think Addai shouldve gotten it. He had 10 catches and did all of mannings work for him.

Snickers commercial was funny if they didnt go all homophobic at the end.
 
81Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:17 		Homophobic at the end? Funny at the end. Wasn't having the characters pull out tufts of their chest a mocking of heterosexualism, rather than an affirmation of it?

I thought Manning controlled the short-pass/run offence of the game. Addai and Rhodes ran well because the Bears were determined to prevent the long pass. (A good strategy, BTW. It kept the Bears in the game until Rex began throwing interceptions.)

Toral

 
82StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:21 		I thought it was a good game. Certainly it would have been better had the Bears been able to mount a drive and score in the 4th quarter. The key play to me was the INT return for a TD.
 
83J
      Leader
      ID: 049346417
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:23 		I thought Grossman should've been the MVP :)
 
84sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:27 		Well, as far as Indy fans are concerned...thats prolly not a bad call J. ;)
 
85tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 10:42 		Toral,

I dont want to debate a snickers commercial.

I think under your logic regarding manning, any winning qb should get the MVP for managing the game correctly. How can you give him pts for the run offense. He is just handing off the ball. Is he calling all the plays? I know he audibles a lot but I couldve sworn him say that the coaches were calling the game and Manning was upset after every series because they were too conservative.
 
86Tree
      ID: 43133321
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:18 		Toral's right on the Snicker's commercial.

the fans in attendence, who had to sit in that downpour watching a mediocre, error-filled game, should have been named the MVPs.
 
87Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:23 		Manning confided to Chris Mortenson after the game that the team doctor told him that his thumb was so badly bruised that he wouldn't be able to grip the ball tightly. In the rain, that could have turned out to be a blessing as you don't want to grip a wet ball too tightly.

I said early in the game with some of those odd passes that his thumb was bothering him, but he also made some tremendous passes with tight spirals. But what do you expect from a 6'5" QB with a laser rocket arm? ;)

I agree with Toral that Manning controlled the game. He called the plays and took what the Defense gave him. He could have passed for over 300 yds or forced it, but why? I agree that Addai, Rhodes, Sanders individually played well. As a group the O-Line and the defense played very well as well. So with so many MVP "candidates", Manning seemed to me to be the right one to get it. Don't discount Rhodes' contribution. Same goes for Sanders. Without either of them, the game could have been very different. The INT TD for the backup DB Hayden who was in for Harper probably got some consideration too as that one play was HUGE! Also liked that Matt Giordano got the last lick that knocked the ball out of Clark's hand to virtually end the game after he was the only one to get a hit on Hester on the opening kickoff--though it was too late. So many players did well. That's not a MVP, that's a great team.

The Colts game back to win from 8 down, the third biggest comeback in Super Bowl History. Like others said, after that the Colts simply dominated the game, yet they didn't put the Bears away. I agree with TB, what more do you want? I was wanting a MORE boring game being a Colts fan! ;)

Wonder if the Colts' defense and especially their Run Defense will get a break now? Maybe people can finally see that injuries were a big part of that. They had the #1 ranked Defense and Run Defense in the playoffs against four of the best teams in the NFL.
 
88Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:24 		86: You go play in a downpour for four hours and see if you can hang onto the ball with those slick gloves.
 
89Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:45 		Saw last night that ESPN had the same poll that they had prior to the season. Then Manning was the 12th best QB in NFL history. Now they've got him the 3rd best behind Montana and Elway. Guarantee you he wouldn't have been that high had he just not been on a team that won the Super Bowl.
 
90Perm Dude
      ID: 5013158
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:46 		It was always a knock on him that he couldn't win big games. With that out of the way it is no surprise he shoots up the rankings.
 
91tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:47 		Wonder if the Colts' defense and especially their Run Defense will get a break now?

They were the 7th worst run defense of all time. Not this year. All time! I think they deserved every bit of criticism they received. Since the playoffs started they have overcome injuries, and they played well. Critics have said nothing but that since they shut down LJ.

Did Manning call the plays? I thought he didnt. Addai was 1 catch away from a superbowl record and rushed for 77 yds on 19 carries while sharing the ball. He was involved in half of the Colts offensive plays.

Manning played fine. He threw an INT early and was at least partly responsible for the fumbled handoff. He was no Rothlisberger, but to say he was the unquestionable MVP is absurd.

I think my Hostetler comparison still stands. Addai or at worst co MVP addai and rhodes.

Jim Kelly in that same superbowl with Hostetler was not going to win MVP. The giants schemed by playing 2 down linemen and 9 playing the pass. He handed to Thomas and made short passes to other receivers. If the bills won that game, Thomas is winning MVP, not Kelly.
 
92tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:50 		Oh and Thomas Jones rushed for 112 yards on only 15 carries and Benson got hurt, so what did they prove?
 
93Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:51 		TTW, they said last night that they don't give co-MVPs away. What are they going to do, give them a time-share on the Caddy? ;)

I am not saying their run defense was horrid for awhile. But they got Sanders and others back for the playoffs. They weren't that same team anymore. Yet many continued to decry thier "horrible" defense coming into the game when they had the best defense in the playoffs. It was apples and oranges.
 
94Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 11:54 		TTW, yeah they proved they couldn't stop the run because Thomas got 112 yds (about half on one carry). They proved they weren't very good. Yeah, the Colts won IN SPITE of their horrible defense. But even if you do believe that to be the case, what it comes down to is that the Colts won the Super Bowl. Keep thinking they were horrible. I don't care and neither do any other Colts fans.
 
95tastethewaste
      ID: 239161113
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 12:05 		I didnt see that they couldnt give CoMVPs. I say give to one of them then. Why do they cancel each other out?

Right, I didnt hear the press saying The Colts run defense hadnt improved. Since the Chiefs game, all Ive heard is that they are fully motivated, they have overcome injuries, etc.


112 yds on 15 carries is still 112 yds on 15 carries. Big runs are part of football and they count against stats. He still averaged 4.2 if you take away his biggest gain. The Bears also didnt have the ball very long and didnt rush it enough. I would say the superbowl was pretty inconclusive to how good or bad the Colts run D was. Were they much improved during the playoffs? yes. Could you see it in the Superbowl, i dont think so.
 
96sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 13:38 		C'mon TTW...Chi had 1st and goal at the 5, and after 2 runs were 3rd and goal at the 4. Grossman to Moose, on 3rd down, counting for the TD.

The Indy D, after the injured players returned, showed that they are a more formidable defense than they could muster w/o those injured players. I mean afterall, they didnt face and stifle for the most part, any meaningful RBs in the playoff run (ie once the D was healthy) now did they?
 
97Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 14:49 		call Larry Johnson and ask him!
 
98Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:01 		What surprised me was how the rain really affected the Bears. I would have thought that it would have had more of a negative impact on the Colts. The Bears D should have tackled better. That is what killed the Colts in the reg. season, and it killed the Bears in the SB. Why didn't they put more pressure on Manning? They were getting close, then all of a sudden, they played conservative.
Just wondering, does Grossman have smallish hands? Manning had no trouble with the rain, but Grossman had no control on most of his passes. The Sanders INT was a td most likely if it was thrown in the right spot. We have seen him make the throw before.
BTW, what do the Colts do if they want to repeat. Seems that Freeney and June and Morris and others are FA. They have 4 million in cap space I have heard. Should they shed some offense to keep the D?
 
99Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:07 		The Sanders INT was a td most likely if it was thrown in the right spot. We have seen him make the throw before.

The morning guy on the Sportstalk show out here in CA had a good analogy to Grossman's throw there.....

....remember when you played football at recess in Elementary School? Instead of 'kicking off' you would just lob a throw as far and high as you could? THAT's what Grossman's throw in the Sanders INT looked like.
 
100Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:08 		BTW Ref, we haven't seen eye to eye on a lot during these playoffs, but I just wanted to say congrats.
 
101tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:24 		every team has injuries. That should not cause a team to be the 7th worst rushing D of all time. That is worse than some expansion teams. some 1-15 teams. It was the 7th worst of all time.

I said they were improved. They did a great job against LJ. They did a good job against the ravens, they did a good job against NE who didnt run the ball much but still did not play like the 7th worst rushing D of all time.

The superbowl, 19 total carries by the Bears 111 yds with a terrible QB. Its not as if the Colts really needed to honor the pass until it was late in the game. Hats off to the Colts, they were definitely improved in the playoffs then the regular season. All i was saying was the criticism was warranted and the accolades for the D were there after every game during their playoff run. Ref stated "Wonder if the Colts' defense and especially their Run Defense will get a break now? Maybe people can finally see that injuries were a big part of that. They had the #1 ranked Defense and Run Defense in the playoffs against four of the best teams in the NFL. "

I was responding to that. Not to mention I dont know where he sees they were #1 against the run. The chargers gave up 51 yds on 21 carries. They were a playoff team.

I still havent heard one valid argument for Peyton to win MVP. Ive heard he called the plays, but I dont think he did. And I really havent heard any QB winning an MVP for calling a run or passing short. Take away a breakdown in D on the Bears with the TD pass to wayne and Mannings game is no TD passes and less than 200 yds. After all, ref is asking me to neglect a 52 yd run as is sarge since that same run set up the only offensive TD all game for the bears but its not the run defense fault since the bears passed on 3rd and goal.
 
102Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:40 		ESPN Poll:

Who was the MVP?

42.8% Peyton Manning (25-38, 247 yds., TD, INT)
33.3% Dominic Rhodes (21 rushes, 113 yards, TD)
14.7% Joseph Addai (77 yds. rushing, 66 yds. receiving)
7.8% Bob Sanders (INT, forced fumble)
1.4% Adam Vinatieri (11 points: 3-4 FG, 2-2 XP)
 
103tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:46 		well if an ESPN poll says so...That vinatieri received even 1 vote is astonishing.
 
104Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 16:54 		Take away a breakdown in D on the Bears with the TD pass to wayne.

Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
 
105tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:01 		Toral, I dont get it. My shot was in reference to Ref and Sarge saying if you take away the Bears big run then the Colts did well against the run. So take away Mannings big pass, he was below average.
 
106Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:06 		Well, I can see how you arrived at your moniker!

FWIW, we weren't saying to tkae away Jones' run. We're saying that he had a 52 yard run and only ended up with 112 yards. Less than Rhodes. Then you add in Addai's damage and...well enver mind. Can't reason with irrational people.

Take your shots and spew your crap, but the Colts are teh Champs and you can't take that away from them.

Nice Post Toral. Classic.
 
107tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:15 		ref, he only had 15 carries. The bears only had the ball 20 minutes. The colts massacred the Bears. I thought the closeness of the game did not tell the story. Once the colts took the lead i thought the bears only hope was a turnover. The issue isnt who rushed for more yards. The colts handed the ball off 42 times, the bears 19. The issue is the Colts run D was not that good yesterday. You are discounting Jones' yds because half came on one carry, so i did the same thing with mannings pass.

There are 2 different issues.
1) The Colts Run D got slack all year because it was the 7th worst of all time. Even with injuries, the criticism is warranted. Yes they improved in the playoffs and were healthy and the press has mentioned that nonstop.

2) Manning did not deserve the MVP. Addai did. 10 catches 66 yds and 19 carries for 77 yds is better than Mannings #s. Why does manning get MVP for handing the ball off. Addai is doing the work. If Manning gets MVP then why dont all winning qbs get MVP. Why didnt Brad Johnson, why didnt Jeff Hostetler, etc.

Congrats to the Colts. They won. I thought they massacred the bears. Im not trying to take anything away from the colts. I just think their run d wasnt great yesterday nor was manning deserving of the MVP.
 
108Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:23 		Finally a well-written, rational post. Thanks.

I've been watching several different channels, both local and national since the game was over and no one has mentioned that Addai should have gotten the MVP. The NFL Network said Rhodes should have gotten it. Rhodes appeared on there today and said he was told that it was a close vote and he was narrowly edged out. Point is, if Manning doesn't get it, Rhodes gets it.

I thought that there were four individuals up for the award. All were deserving but none stood out as the clear-cut favorite. If there was, there wouldn't be this discussion. My hypothesis was that because there was no clear-cut then they voted for Manning because everything went through him and, he's Peyton Manning.
 
109Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:28 		I agree with you TTW. Ref is a believer in the myth of the Colts run D. If the Ravens would have stuffed the ball in Jamal Lewis' hands 25-30 times, the Colts would not be SB champs, they would have lost to the Ravens. I say the Ravens because the game was in control, and the Ravens did not let the Colts get out to a big lead. It was a late FG that put the game away. But Billick had a bad game plan, thought that they could win through the air, and well the rest is history. But anyways, the point is moot, the Colts won.
 
110tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:32 		you should re read my posts. They are all rational. This one just said Congrats to the Colts. Im not hating on the colts. I think youre reading into it that I am and then are thinking im bashing you.

I was actually just watching Around the Horn, 2 said Manning shouldve won it. 1 said an OLineman shouldve won it and 1 said Addai and or Rhodes shouldve won it.

You did state my point however. Manning is Manning and they gave him the MVP because he is marketable. That is why your ESPN poll shows him as the MVP. He is coca cola to Addai's Royal Crown Cola.

If mannings name was Peyton Majekowski, Addai wouldve won the MVP. We have seen Mannings performances twice already, Brad Johnson and Jeff Hostetler. Neither won the MVP award. Rhodes stats are so similar to Ottis Anderson's (in fact a little bette) and Addai nearly tied a superbowl record for receptions and also rushed for 77 yds. They shouldnt cancel each other out so manning steps forward to get a car.
 
111Electroman
      ID: 44651412
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:44 		It seemed that Manning looked a little shocked that he won the MVP. Addai should have won it, he made big plays to keep drives going. Many times it looked like it would be third and long, but Addai broke tackles to make a first, or make it third and short.
 
112Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 17:54 		I was rooting for Peyton Manning, and perhaps that affected my certainty re the MVP vote. I can see the case for Addai or Rhodes. Their interchangeability weighs against either being MVP, though, doesn't it?. (I was happy to see Rhodes have a big game...it had been 5 years.)
I still think Peyton wins it outright, and if Rhodes gets the title he is a chump champ like Otis Andersin in XXV (when the MVP was unquestionably Thurman Thomas.

Beg pardon, Hall-of-Famer Thurman Thomas

Maybe we weren't watching the same game. Did you see how many times Rhodes got stuffed early?

Anyway, I am happy to be among the football-dense majority that voted for Peyton Manning. I also like higher minimum-wage laws, caps on CEO salaries, and, like Hillary said ;) excess profit taxes on oil companies.

Toral
 
113Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 49848118
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 18:00 		The issue is the Colts run D was not that good yesterday.

Bears ran the ball 6 times for 62 yards in the 1st quarter.

Rest of the game they were held to 13 carries for 49 yards. Colts rushing D was fine. Dominating? No. They didn't need for their rushing defense to be dominating against such an overall inferior opponent.


I don't think there's a very strong case for Addai as MVP. He played significant roles in 2 scoring drives, the first possession of the 2nd quarter (started with :09 left in the 1st) and the first possession of the 3rd quarter. Both drives ended in FGs and neither kick was a game-breaking score.

In the first of those drives, Addai carried 3 times for 11 yards and caught two passes for 17 yards. In the other, he carried 5 times for 25 yards and caught two passes for 7 yards. Not bad, but note that Addai got the ball twice in each series that failed to convert.

Really, it was a team victory and I agree that Peyton does not particularly stand out. But since you cant give it to the defense (which regrouped after the 1st quarter and held Chi to 3 points the rest of the way), Manning is as good a choice as any.
 
114tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 18:03 		ive said from my first post onward it shouldve been addai and if this was a problem because of rhodes getting 100+ yds Co MVPs. Since Ref informed me that there cannot be co mvps, then addai gets it, not rhodes. you also said manning was unquestionably the mvp so i took issue and now you are backing off.

Thomas wouldve won the MVP if the Bills won. Cant see a losing player getting the MVP in the Superbowl. 1986 NLCS maybe. Could you imagine if Kelly had won the MVP? He saw the Giants playing 2 down lineman and Kelly, who actually did call the plays, audibled handoffs to Thomas. So Kelly gets it because of his management of the game? Thats the reason ive been hearing why Manning wins the MVP.
 
115tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 18:08 		Bears ran the ball 6 times for 62 yards in the 1st quarter.


Doug Williams passed for 4 TDs in the 2nd qtr of superbowl XXII. After that the Broncos pass D was fine. Now thats an extreme but a quarter is 1/4 of the game. Consider the bears only had the ball 20 minutes, i would say the colts run d didnt necessarily regroup. Then again, they didnt have to.
 
116Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 20:51 		If mannings name was Peyton Majekowski, Addai wouldve won the MVP.

Not if Peyton Majekowski had played as well as Manning.
 
117Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 20:57 		Since Ref informed me that there cannot be co mvps

Did Ref say that? I find that hard to believe since any football fan knows that Randy White and Harvey Martin were co-MVPs in XII.

Toral
 
118Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 21:04 		Cant see a losing player getting the MVP in the Superbowl.

Guess you can't have watched V. Chuck Howley, MVP. Now THAT may have been the worst SB that wasn't a blowout ever. Even if you didn't see it...when they pick an LB from the losing team as the MVP, you may surmise that it was a choppy, ugly game.

Unlike IV, in which Hank Stram allowed himself to be wired for sound and famously gloated that the vaunted Minnesota defence was running around as if an....

Anyone?

Toral
 
119TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 21:15 		Chinese Fire Drill?
 
120tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 21:25 		I knew dallas had co mvps. But ref said something about not being able to cut the car in half so no co mvps.

I forgot about that, was that super bowl V? I guess they couldve given it to thomas, but its not as if a guy who rushes for over 100 yds and scored a TD for the winning team didnt deserve it.

As for weykool, see Jeff Hostetler or Brad Johnson.
 
121Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 21:27 		10 points for TB.
 
122Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 45022307
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 21:37 		ttw

Addai's contribution weren't significant enough to warrant an MVP award. You're just looking at numbers. You say that Addai's numbers justify it. They don't, not when you CONSIDER WHAT HE ACTUALLY DID IN THE GAME. The bulk of his contributions came during two drives that ended in FGs.
 
123tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 23:13 		Why would the opening drive count against Addai because Indy didnt score, but Manning who got the MVP gets rewarded at the same time for ending that drive?

2nd Drive, Addai was involved in 5 of the 9 plays. Granted some were not very productive but when you go to Addai 5 times in 8 tries maybe that was the reason Wayne was left so wide open for the TD.

3rd drive, Manning fumbles.

4th Drive, Addai doesnt get the ball, Colts go 3 and out.

5th Drive, Addai doesnt get the ball, colts go 3 and out.

6th Drive, Addai gets the ball 5 out of 7 times. FG

7th Drive, no Addai, TD

8th Drive, Addai 5 out of 7 plays has the ball. The 7th, (a play he doesnt get the ball, Colts fumble). Addai gets penalized for that too?

9th Drive, 2 minute offense, addai gets 1 carry 0 yds, missed FG.

10th drive, Addai gets ball 9 times out of 12 play drive. FG

I would say he was the center point of the offense. Considering offensively they only got 1 more FG, I dont know how any other colt could get the MVP.

Defensively they just werent on the field enough to give it to anyone on that side. Addai and ball control much like ottis anderson and the giants was the most valuable to the Colts victory. Add in impressive #s, Addai gets it.
 
124Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 05, 2007, 23:21 		The announcers last night said there could not be co-MVPs.
 
125Tree
      ID: 43133321
      Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 09:24 		i really think Rex Grossman - or maybe Lovie Smith for sticking by him all season - should have beenthe MVP. he is the worst QB to ever play in a SB, and if he's their starter next year, the Bears need to fire Smith.
 
126barilko6
      ID: 3912867
      Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 09:32 		I think the entire Colts Offensive line should have shared the award. They created holes for the backs to get through and kept the Forehead standing almost all game. One sack and maybe 2 hurries is pretty awesome against the best defense in the league.

5 OL, maybe they each get the Escalade for 2 months and have random draws for the final two months?
 
127Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 11:04 		Three guys on one of the ESPN show said that Sanders should have gotten the MVP. Cold Pizza had Rhodes on this morning as they felt he should have gotten it. Rhodes said that he felt that Manning deserved it and if not him, the OLine should have gotten it and him third. He said he just wanted the Escalade. ;)
 
128tastethewaste
      ID: 42017617
      Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 18:58 		looks like the snickers commercial was homophobic... its worse than we think?

Snickers pulling the ad due to protests.