Forum: foot
Page 5097
Subject: Gurupie 24 2008 Pre-Season Discussion

  Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 17:49
Last Thread

I know it's early, but many of you have asked to run our lottery in reverse pick order in conjunction with the actual NFL Lottery. I've sent the info to Guru so he can set it up if he has the time.

At some point this summer/fall we need to look and see if there are any tweaks we need to make to our first year of IDPs. There have been some suggestions, but instead of things dragging on like they did last summer, let's wait until closer to the season to discuss those.
 
1Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 22:49 		For those unfamiliar with the draft lottery process, here is a brief recap.

1. The bottom 16 teams are each assigned selection probabilities for the lottery, defined as chances per 1000. The last place team has a 25% chance of being selected; the team 16th from the bottom has a 0.3% chance (3 per 1000). For the upcoming lottery, here are the selection probabilities (chances per 1000) assigned to each team:

24. SW's Chiefs 250
23. Yokel's Jaguars 200
22. AF's Falcons 147
21. PD's Browns 108
20. CCR's Bears 80
19. Toral's Saints 59
18. Promize's Seahawks 43
17. mjd's Chargers 32
16. bmd's Texans 23
15. GO's Jets 17
14. sj's Packers 13
13. Coyotes' Broncos 9
12. Twarpy's Giants 7
11. Pete's Cowboys 5
10. Slizz's Bills 14- 4
9. DS' Eagles 16- 3

2. The lottery is conducted as three sequential random "draws". The first draw will be for the top pick, then the 2nd pick, then the 3rd. All teams not selected for one of the top three picks will be assigned the 4-16 positions in reverse standings order.

3. The process for each draw is to simulate the random selection of four balls from a total of 14 balls, numbered from 1-14. There are 1001 such possible combinations that can be selected. One of these is predetermined to represent a "do over", and the other 1000 combinations are each pre-assigned to one of the 16 teams, in the proportions listed above. I have done this in the linked spreadsheet: http://rotoguru1.com/foot/G24-Apr08-14x4_balls.xls

There are 1000 rows. Columns B,C,D, and E list the four-ball combos. Columns F&G list the team that is assigned to each combo. Once a four ball combo is drawn, it is a simple matter to look up the team that is represented by that combo. (2-7-9-12 is the "do over" combo.)

3. If the second or third draw results in a duplication, then it is tossed out and done again.

4. The program for selecting the 4 ball combinations is derived from the random.org website. Here is a sample (the top 4 numbers are the only ones that matter): http://random.org/cgi-bin/randseq?min=1&max=14

The version of the program that we use sends an email confirmation to several people, so the results can be audited and verified. I wrote the program, but Ref will run it and post the results here.
 
2Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Apr 22, 2008, 23:45 		Actually for this league we have four random draws and the remaining 12 teams are assigned 5-16 in reverse order of finish.
 
3Great One
ID: 233541511
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 09:10 		This sounds fun... really gives the league a big time "real" offseason feel. It starts at 3 PM on Saturday I believe and I think the first 5 picks should be done within an hour (since Miami essentially already picked) so it should be fairly quick (and dramatic!).

Thanks for the extra effort Ref.
There will be a trade announced Saturday as well... the league is buzzing already. I can feel it.
 
4Slizz
ID: 27319199
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 00:09 		bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 
5Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:13 		Slizz reminded me today that there were some trades in the lottery and GO has a couple of them. So obviously he is pulling for a couple guys to come up #1 or 1-2.

When I post the draft order in reverse order, it will start to become apparent when a team is skipped that he is in the top 4--if in fact there is anyone that moved up at all. The order that Guru posted in #1 should be your guide.

Here is the final standings:

Playoff Results (Reverse For Draft Order)
1st bj21's Rams
2nd Ref's Colts
3rd CT's Cardinals
4th TB's Ravens
5th thk's Vikings
6th Doug's Raiders
7th mbj's Bengals
8th Cards' 49ers

Regular Season Standings
1. Cards' 49ers 20-6
2. CT's Cardinals 19-7
3. thk's Vikings 17-9
4. bj21's Rams 16-10 2930.5
5. Ref's Colts 16-10 2541.1
6. TB's Ravens 16-10 2346.3
7. mbj's Bengals 14-12 2547
8. Doug's Raiders 14-12 2349.1

9. DS' Eagles 16-10 2701.5
10. Slizz's Bills 14-12 2278.5
11. Pete's Cowboys 13-13
12. Twarpy's Giants 12-14 2550.4
13. Coyotes' Broncos 12-14 2531.4
14. sj's Packers 12-14 2303.4
15. GO's Jets 12-14 2252.7
16. bmd's Texans 12-14 2217.7
17. mjd's Chargers 12-14 2202.9
18. Promize's Seahawks 11-15 2454.1
19. Toral's Saints 11-15 2259.3
20. CCR's Bears 10-16 2422.2
21. PD's Browns 10-16 2223.8
22. AF's Falcons 9-17
23. Yokel's Jaguars 7-19
24. SW's Chiefs 7-19 2060.3
 
6Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:15 		Draft order for bottom 8 (non-lottery) teams:

17. Cards' 49ers
18. mbj's Bengals
19. Doug's Raiders
20. thk's Vikings
21. TB's Ravens
22. CT's Cardinals
23. Ref's Colts
24. bj21's Rams
 
7Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:24 		XIV Traded Draft Picks:

11-28-06 Ref gets from TB a conditional 2nd round draft pick for Ref's 6th round draft pick if Tiki Barber plays 6 or more games in 2007. (Tiki Barber/Bell,Houston)
8-21 Doug gets GO's 3rd rounder for his 6th (Winfield)
8-24 PD gets GO's highest 2nd round pick. GO gets PD's highest first rounder. (Frye and 07 picks)
9-8 Slizz gets Ref's 3rd rounder for his 8th (Favre/Bell)
10-14 ds' Eagles get Dougs 1st for his 4th rounder. (VY/AJ).
11-2 SW Chiefs get GO's Jets 1st Round pick for his 1st Round Pick. (S. Moss,Coleman/Porter,Freeny, Fargas)
11-9 GO acquires Toral's 2nd rounder for his 8th. (Cutler et al/Brees, KJ et al)
11-27 Twarpys Giants receives StL Cards' 49ers second rounder for his fifth rounder (Colts D)
11-27 SW's Chiefs receives Ref's Colts 2nd rounder for his 4th (Fargas/Rhodes)
11-27 Slizz Bills get CT's Cardinals 1st rounder (Grant/White-Branch)
12-1 Twarpy's Giants receive bj21 1st rounder for his 6th (K.Smith/R.Williams)

The conditional pick will be removed from the rules as Tiki did not play last year.

So, GO has PD's and SW's balls in the lottery and SW has GO's balls. ;) Sounds like a personal problem to me.
 
8Promize
ID: 8857295
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 03:34 		slightly confused, are we actually making our picks tomorrow?
 
9TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 12:15 		Not even. They are announcing the draft order for our league today as teams make their first round picks in the real NFL draft. It was a fairly lengthy discussion in the last thread so not sure how you missed it.
 
10Promize
ID: 8857295
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 13:20 		Well... when football season is down, rarely come on to the website.

Playing golf, going to masters, takes precedence. :)

But sounds cool, thanks.
 
11Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:05 		OK, I'll do my best...here goes...


Good Aftenoon Football Fans. Welcome to the 2008 Draft Lottery. We appreciate your enthusiasm and hope you enjoy our new format for announcing it.

With that said, we will start with pick #16 and I have it right here.

Pick #16 belongs to:

16. DS' Eagles
 
12Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:12 		#15 belongs to...

Slizz's Bills
 
13Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:20 		#14 belongs to...

Pete's Cowboys
 
14Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:28 		13. Twarpy's Giants
 
15Peter N.
ID: 212122712
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:35 		Wooohooo, I got the 14th pick.
 
16Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:38 		12. Coyotes' Broncos
 
17Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:44 		11. skinneej's Packers
 
18Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 15:55 		10. GO's Jets

Which has been traded to Smallwhirled's Chiefs
 
19Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:01 		9. bmd's Texans
 
20Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:07 		8. mjd's Chargers
 
21Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:13 		7. Promize's Seahawks
 
22Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:19 		6. CCR's Bears
 
23Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:26 		5. Yokel's Jaguars
 
24Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:31 		So the remaining teams have had their ping pong balls drawn.

Breaking it down...

Toral's Saints are in the top 4 as a result of them being skipped in the order. And Yokel's expected #2 pick obviously didn't come up as he is at #5. GO is now guaranteed two of the top 4 picks.
 
25Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:38 		4. PD's Browns

Which has been traded to Great One's Jets
 
26Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:45 		3. AF's Falcons
 
27Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:58 		2. SW's Chiefs

Which has been traded to Great One's Jets
 
28Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:59 		And the Lottery Winner is TORAL's SAINTS!!!

1. Toral's Saints
 
29Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 16:59 		1. Toral's Saints 59
2. SW's Chiefs 250
3. AF's Falcons 147
4. PD's Browns 108

5. Yokel's Jaguars 200
6. CCR's Bears 80
7. Promize's Seahawks 43
8. mjd's Chargers 32
9. bmd's Texans 23
10. GO's Jets 17
11. sj's Packers 13
12. Coyotes' Broncos 9
13. Twarpy's Giants 7
14. Pete's Cowboys 5
15. Slizz's Bills 4
16. DS' Eagles 3
 
30Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 17:08 		1st Round Order as of Today

1. Toral's Saints
2. SW's Chiefs GO's Jets
3. AF's Falcons
4. PD's Browns GO's Jets

5. Yokel's Jaguars
6. CCR's Bears
7. Promize's Seahawks
8. mjd's Chargers
9. bmd's Texans
10. GO's Jets SW's Chiefs
11. sj's Packers
12. Coyotes' Broncos
13. Twarpy's Giants
14. Pete's Cowboys
15. Slizz's Bills
16. DS' Eagles

17. Cards' 49ers
18. mbj's Bengals
19. Doug's Raiders DS' Eagles
20. thk's Vikings
21. TB's Ravens
22. CT's Cardinals Slizz's Bills
23. Ref's Colts
24. bj21's Rams Twarpy's Giants
 
31Great One
ID: 2241519
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 17:09 		Congrats to Toral for jumping up to #1

And now to the much anticipated trade as part of these draft lottery procedings
TRADE
Slizz's Bills acquire Greg Olsen, TE, CHI
GO's Jets acquire Tony Scheffler, TE, DEN
 
32Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 17:54 		Lottery Draw:

1st Draw: toral
2nd Draw: sw
3rd Draw: af
4th Draw: sw repick
5th Draw 4th pick: sw repick
6th Draw 4th pick: pd
 
33Great One
ID: 2241519
Sat, Apr 26, 2008, 21:55 		Lord... got drawn so many times and yet couldn't get #1.
 
34Toral
ID: 575542418
Sun, Apr 27, 2008, 00:34 		This is April 26 guyz not April 1st.
 
35Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Apr 27, 2008, 14:20 		I'm sure there are some people who wish this was an April Fools joke and that we ran it again! ;)
 
36TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sun, Apr 27, 2008, 15:50 		Congrats on the top pick Toral. My son had a rugby game yesterday so I ended up skimming draft highlights via DVR last night. I still think this was a fun idea announcing picks this way.

I think there are going to be a lot of future contributors in this years draft so it will be interesting to see how it plays out a couple years from now.
 
38Toral
ID: 575542418
Sun, Apr 27, 2008, 23:00 		With my luck this'll be the year where there's 8 guyz of equal talent who could be the first pick!
 
39Great One
ID: 233541511
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 08:57 		I agree, there are about 6-8 RB's and couple QB's worth taking so I think anyone in the top 10 is gonna get a decent player worth picking.
And thats just the rookies.
 
40Great One
ID: 233541511
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 09:01 		for example, somebody off the radar.. although Slizz hates the guy and wished his team picked somebody else there.

Bears GM Jerry Angelo considers second-round pick Matt Forte a "three-down back."

Beware Cedric Benson, your job is in great danger. "I felt like our running game obviously was one of the weak spots on our football team," Angelo said, referring to last year. "He gives us a big back, a three down back." Forte is going to compete to start right away, and he just may be the favorite.
 
41Toral
ID: 575542418
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 14:53 		Cedric Benson's job is in danger from players not signed in the CFL draft. And I say that with the greatest of respect.
 
42Slizz
ID: 21733916
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 16:47 		At first I was like WTH when we went with Forte with our pick!!!

But the more I read about this Forte guy, the more I dont mind the pick. While I dont think he'll ever be confused with LaDanian Tomlinson, I think he is a guy who will be productive for the Bears. He is a runner who can hit the gaps and get those tough yards which Cedric Benson couldnt do. Forte might be in a timeshare, but I wouldnt be surprised to see him get the goalline carries.

I think drafting from the 1st 8 is a wash...pending on your need (QB or RB) you'll have (in draft order):

Matt Ryan (starter from day 1, assuming no holdouts)
Run DMC (timeshare, but he'll get PT b/c of draft status)
Stewart (STUD, gonna rack up 10+ TD's and will be carolina's feature back in the redzone)
Joe Flacco (Only held back by Boller/Smith)
Felix Jones (Julius Jones type #'s with an occasional special teams TD)
Mendenhall (tough to project with fast Willie as the incumbent)
Dustin Keller (Jets need a TE...Redzone Target?)
Devin Thomas (Redskins lack a big redzone target)
Matt Forte (see above comments)
Chad Henne (John Beck wont be starting for long, this guy might just win the job outright in camp)
Kevin Smith (Detroit didnt trade up for no reason)
Steve Slaton (Ahman Green? Healthy? HA!)
Ryan Torian (wait till training camp to see what Shanahan does), etc.
Mike Hart (Addai is gonna get knicked up one of these games and Kenton Keith had a fumbling problem...good spot starter).

Not to mention players who didnt make final cuts that are still roster worthy to a team picking in the top 10.

And my apologies in advance to the Gurupies if I am spoiling hopes of players falling :)
 
60Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Wed, May 14, 2008, 11:45 		Bump bump

I'm taking a look at upgrading my defense from the Jets... possibly. So if you have an extra defense I might want to take a look at, let me know. I wouldn't go nuts cause I think the Jets D is on the rise, but if I got an offer of a top D for mid round pick, I might make the move. Especially if you aren't keeping them anyway. Everybody wins.
 
61deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Sun, Jun 08, 2008, 08:32 		Does Cedric have a PPL? I was wondering if he'd go for the triple crown. Can you see him buzzing the cops while on a buzz.......
 
62Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jun 09, 2008, 15:56 		2007 Football Plaque
 
63 Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 15:56 		I wanted to kind of float it out there that the #4 pick will likely be for sale. And you are guaranteed a good rookie RB in that spot so its not gonna come cheap. But I will certainly entertain offers with players, to move up, to move down, for high picks in next years draft etc. Any type of package will be looked at.
 
64 Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Thu, Jun 19, 2008, 09:44 		Jonathan Stewart - I want him, I have the picks and some leftover players to make a significant push for him...so if GO doesnt take him @ #2, give me a holla and lets talk.
 
65TB
      ID: 395122110
      Mon, Jun 23, 2008, 21:09 		Stweart over Forte? I think both will prove to be reliable fantasy players, especially for our league, but think Forte is in a better position right now.
 
66Slizz
      ID: 565112116
      Mon, Jun 23, 2008, 22:19 		TB, long time no talk! hope you're doing well.

Saying Forte is in a better position is like saying "i'm the tallest midget". As a staunch bears fan, I dont think we have much to look forward to this upcoming season. I think watching the Raiders will be a treat for sore eyes :) (Sorry, I had too!)

I think Peter Schrager (foxsports.com), a Giants homer, accurately sums the Chicago Bears up:

Are the Bears the worst team in football?

Crazy, right? Less than 18 months ago, Chicago was playing in a Super Bowl in Miami. Now the Bears are being picked as the last-place team in the NFC North by just about everyone. It's been an interesting few months to say the least. In a bizarre turn of events, the Bears signed their two longtime underachieving quarterbacks, Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton, to one-year deals on consecutive days, failed to select a quarterback with one of their 12 picks in the NFL Draft, and didn't bring in any significant signal callers from the free-agent market. Mushin Muhammad and Bernard Berrian each signed elsewhere, and Marty Booker and Brandon Lloyd were brought in as replacements. Yep, Marty Booker and Brandon Lloyd are Chicago's No. 1 and No. 2 receivers this season. That's heinous.

Chicago also released Cedric Benson, a top-five draft pick from just three seasons ago, and squabbled over dollars with defensive leaders Brian Urlacher and Tommie Harris. Though the offensive line should be improved with the addition of rookie Chris Williams, there's not much else to rally around in the Windy City. Are they the worst team in the NFL? Probably not. But they could be pretty darn bad.
 
67TB
      ID: 395122110
      Sat, Jul 12, 2008, 04:18 		Hey Slizz, sorry I missed your post until now. I'm extremely optimistic about the Raiders near-term and long-term future. I believe we have most of the pieces in place and even if this year is still a season of growth for the younger players, I expect to see marked improvement on both sides of the ball.

I don't follow the Bears as closely as you do, but Berrian was the only "playmaker" they lost that I would consider for fantasy value. Sucks about Benson, but I never cared for the guy and read nothing but good things about Forte. I am a little lost on the WR situation, but maybe they figure Hester will be more involved. Lloyd is junk and Booker saw his best seasons the last time he was a Bear. They do have a couple good offensive weapons at TE with Olsen and Clark, but this is a team that has historically relied more on the running game than the passing game. Well do I know how much the uncertainty at QB sucks for you as a fan. I know you have to have your fingers crossed that one of them steps up and lives up to some potential. Grossman has been too inconsistent, but maybe he can put it all together.
 
68TB
      ID: 395122110
      Tue, Jul 15, 2008, 16:17 		I see they signed Kevin Jones (congrats on that) so might have to drop Forte down a few pegs until we see what preseason brings as it looks like RBBC.
 
69Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 17, 2008, 14:18 		There were several ideas about possible tweaks to our setup from last year--specificlaly IDP. If those ideas still hold true, we need to start discussing them soon.
 
70Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 15:00 		Camps open today. First exhibition game is Aug 4. First game is Sept. 4. Last year's Keeper thread went up on Aug 13 and was due on like the 24th or so. Will try to come up with a rough schedule for this year soon.
 
71Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 16:11 		Invites will be going out asap.

Before the subject is broached, CBS has refused to add the possibility to allow for 6 divs. so there will be no realignment.
 
72Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 17:15 		We will have more rounds this year so my guess is that the keeper and draft dates will be moved up accordingly.
 
73Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 22, 2008, 11:53 		Smallwhirled has informed me that he'd rather let someone else take his team, but he would continue if there were no qualified players out there. Well that never seems to be the case with football or baseball for our leagues...

JTSERB will be taking over his team.

Still haven't heard back from everyone yet, but in the interest of getting JT up to speed asap, we went ahead and assigned him the team.
 
74smallwhirled
      ID: 256432212
      Tue, Jul 22, 2008, 13:49 		Yes, I'm backing out of G24. I let Ref know months ago that I was considering getting out of the league. It seems like he's found a viable candidate in JTSERB.

My heart just hasn't been in it lately, and I feel like I've held the league back. The few moves that I have made generally backfired, and I've never been able to turn this team around.

Good luck to everyone this season, and thanks for letting me join a few years ago.
 
75TB
      ID: 395122110
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 02:07 		Bummer to see you leave the league, smallwhirled. I've enjoyed being in the same league with you for the last couple years.
 
76Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 21:08 		TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Toral's New Orleans Saints acquire:

GO's 2008 #4 overall pick (1st round)
GO's 2008 5th Round Pick
GO's 2009 1st Round Pick
GO's 2009 2nd Round Pick
Pierre Thomas, RB, NO

Great One's New York Jets acquire:

Toral's 2008 #1 overall pick (1st round)
Toral's 2008 8th Round Pick
Toral's 2009 last and third last round pix (believed to be 8th and 10th round pix)
Garrett Wolfe RB, Chi [fodder to even up number of players in trade, if this is required]

Check this over GO, to make sure I have everything. This one has been a while in the making....

Toral

 
77Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 21:11 		Looks good to me, trade confirmed.
And I love how such a big deal is all in caps AND bolded :)
 
78THK
      ID: 476132323
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 00:15 		I am looking to move draft picks to upgrade Steve Smith to a top-tier WR or a solid RB. Let me know if anyone is interested.
 
79JTSERB
      Donor
      ID: 481020120
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 09:14 		Thanks for the invite Ref. Looks like we have a good group of managers. Looking forward to the challenge of such a deep league. Hopefully I can turn these Chiefs around :)

JT
 
80Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 13:38 		SW - Sorry to see you depart.
JTSERB - Welcome to the club.

Everyone else... no other commentary on a manager change and the BLOCKBUSTER trade of the #1 overall draft pick?
I mean the draft is under a month away, lets kickstart this mother! :)
 
82Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 14:16 		The trade in '76 is approved and I will trade the players manually forthwith.

Please make sure I have the picks documented correctly:

XIV 2008 Traded Draft Picks:
7-23 GO's Jets receive Toral's 1st and 5th rounder for his 1st and 8th rounder (P.Thomas,09 picks/Wolfe,09 picks)

XV 2009 Traded Draft Picks:
7-23-08 Toral's Jets receive GO's 1st and 2nd rounder for his 3rd to last and last rounder (currently 8th and 10th) (P.Thomas,08 picks/Wolfe,08 picks)
 
83Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 14:17 		Well obviously should say Toral's Saints etc...
 
84Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 14:22 		Updated draft order:

2008 Draft Order
1. Toral's Saints GO's Jets
2. JT's Chiefs GO's Jets
3. AF's Falcons
4. PD's Browns GO's Jets Toral's Saints
5. Yokel's Jaguars
6. CCR's Bears
7. Promize's Seahawks
8. mjd's Chargers
9. bmd's Texans
10. GO's Jets JT's Chiefs
11. sj's Packers
12. Coyotes' Broncos
13. Twarpy's Giants
14. Pete's Cowboys
15. Slizz's Bills
16. DS' Eagles
17. Cards' 49ers
18. mbj's Bengals
19. Doug's Raiders DS' Eagles
20. thk's Vikings
21. TB's Ravens
22. CT's Cardinals Slizz's Bills
23. Ref's Colts
24. bj21's Rams Twarpy's Giants
 
85Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 14:30 		Looks right to me.
 
86Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 14:34 		While not everyone has specifically replied to their invite, I am not comfortable with the fact that those who haven't will be returning based on conversations, posts since last season, etc.

Slizz is on vacation. I know he was working on ideas to add on to out IDP. I don't reember exactly what his idea was though. I had some ideas too, but I didn't write them down, so I'm going to have to go back and try and remember. I know several posted stuff in previous threads so perhaps I can find them. Adding IDP positions would be a MAJOR change and thus require a 2/3 vote to change. It would also add rounds to our draft (hence the foresight Toral and GO had in their trade). Obviously this neds to be discussed as soon as possible because if it goes in, we'd have to move up the draft date. We already have to go earleir than before since we added IDP players for this draft. We currently keep any 9 players and will have a 10 round draft.
 
87Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 15:27 		It should read that I am comfy that everyone else will be returning...so much multitasking that I lose my train of thought!
 
88Slizz
      ID: 58622821
      Sat, Jul 26, 2008, 20:36 		TB - I love it when the Bears stink and can possibly overachieve (the 13-3 season circa '01 and the 11-5 season en route to a Carolina playoff loss). I lost some interest with their recent success over the past two seasons b/c it was easy to be a fan. Call my contrarian-style fandom weird, but going back to the drawing board always makes me excited!
 
89Slizz
      ID: 58622821
      Sat, Jul 26, 2008, 20:45 		Ref (& League): As for the whole IDP debate, I believe we should add another "flex" position to our starting rosters. There were way too many “quality” IDP's floating on the waiver wire, at some point in the season, which had no business being there: Adrian Wilson, Will Witherspoon, Adewale Ogunleye, & Aaron Schobel among others.

The reason for that is quite simple: There was too much supply and not enough demand. Nobody would consider making a trade for an impact defender to help their team b/c they could just go right on the wire for a quick fix. In short, because of the starting roster setup, we didn’t have to load our benches up and it made the focus on defense secondary to offense.

Currently, G24 has the following structure on offense:
-RB
-WR
-TE
-FLEX
-FLEX

I don’t see why we shouldn't do the same on defense:
-DL (like your tight ends)
-LB (like your RB’s)
-DB (like your WR’s)
-FLEX
-FLEX

It would most certainly impact the upcoming draft by giving a GM the option of taking an impact defender that would help on day one instead of debating if they should choose James Jones or Jacoby Jones (random two names that came to mind) with their first pick and hope they pan out in a season or two.

I've been torn between the suggestion of increasing the keeper limit from 9 to 10 (believe me, I'd benefit from the 10 rule), but than that would keep the rich richer and make the franchise turnaround time on the lesser-quality squads longer. In turn, that would take away from the fun and spirit of what this league is all about.

If G24's goal is to closely mimic the NFL from a GM standpoint as much as possible, we want to give those teams a legitimate shot to go from worst-to-contender in a season or two, just like the real NFL: (Saints, Bucs, Browns, etc.) Increasing the roster size by 1 (or two) and limiting keepers to 9 would be a step in the right direction.

Let me know your thoughts!
 
90Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 00:01 		I was reading back over the threads from last season.

Some concerns raised:

-If we add another IDP Flex then we're going to need another bench spot. If we add aanother bench spot then we'd have to add to flex spots to make it work

I don't remember the reasoning there. I must be getting old, but I'll try to look at the setup to see if I can remember. I do remember some very nice IDPs on the WW and the inability to trade even decent IDPs.

--Doug, Go and others were concerned with the inability to pick up players during the playoffs. Go made a proposal then withdrew it because of the ramifications...i.e. unfair for playoff teams to be able to make pickups and tehn be able to keep them. Some ideas were to revert roster back to freeze, to disallow teh ability to keep anyone you picked up while also losing anyone you dropped, and to leave things as they are.

It would be so complicated to change things, but if it will make the league better then we need to discuss it.
 
91Perm Dude
      ID: 586372716
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 22:46 		Why would we have to add a bench spot if we add a flex IDP?
 
92Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 23:41 		I'm thinking the reason was because not enough bench players to cover bye week issues. I'm geting old. CRS lately.
 
93Perm Dude
      ID: 586372716
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 23:51 		Hmm. Having an extra D flex position might cover some of that anyway.
 
94THK
      ID: 476132323
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 00:40 		I think our attempt at IDPs has been half-hearted thus far. I would agree with adding another FLEX IDP spot to downgrade the studs on the waiver wire.
 
95Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 00:53 		Half-hearted shows that you weren't around for all the discussions last year. One of the proposals we were working with had us with another IDP flex. In the end the legue decided to go conservative to make sure the WW wasn't too thin for IDPs--knowing full-well that we could add to it if need be.

Slizz shares my thought process when he talks about making IDP players important enough to make them trade-worthy and even keeper-worthy. I'm still wading though posts trying to find things. Perhaps I should look through old emails too...Want to find our possibilities and reasonings behind them...
 
96Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 01:13 		Reading though some old emails: The final two options were 4 active 1 reserve and 5 active 2 reserve spots when it came to adding IDPs. We ended up adding 4 active and added one bench spot and added a round to the draft.

Definitely don't want to cut the WW down anymore than it already is--esp. on the offensive side.

StL Cards actually suggested we go 5/1 as an option and that's what we'd effectively be doing if we added an IDP flex. He stated to the competition committee last year:

Maybe a better alternative is to use 5 IDP and 1 bench slot. We could have 1 DL, 1 LB, 1 DB, 2 flex. 5 starters with only 1 bench slot together with bye weeks gives a pretty good chance that the 4th WR/RB might be waived to pick up a starting IDP for the week. With a 4/2 situation it is too easy to put joe stud on the bench for a bye week and add joe so-so to cover it without having to sacrifice anything. The thing that makes this league interesting is having to make tough choices. We want active in season management and not a draft and start-em league. The decisions should be tough to make and not easy, at least in my mind anyway.

I think that about sums up my mind on all of G20/24 leagues. My mind is starting to function again--just needed to re-read some things.

Therefore, I tend to agree with Slizz that a single active IDP Flex should be added. Of course this would add one more round to the draft. If this becomes a proposal, it would take a 2/3 vote to pass since it would be deemed a major change.

Reading through the competiton threads also discussed a lot about return yards, etc. The league chose not to add those last year and frankly I didn't miss them.
 
97Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 10:15 		I don't see why we wouldn't make it a proposal. That extra bench spot is likely 36 less IDP's (factoring in 50% will use their backup on a offensive player and 50% on defense) on the waiver wire, which would put us more in balance with what we are trying to accomplish.

Like Ref, I believe IDP's should be equally as important. We have the scoring for the IDP's right (as evidenced by the Keith Bulluck MNF monster game), now lets get the positional breakdown right!

As for Return Yards: While I did not miss it, I dont see how it would take anything away from the league. GO utilized Return Yard scoring in all of his leagues and it adds extra strategy during the bye weeks. We have used the following format:

1 point every 25 yards
Normal TD scoring (6)
Account for fumbles lost (-2)

At most, its a bonus for people needing to start a guy on a bye week (i.e. Josh Cribbs, Devin Hester) to get 5-6 points. It also puts emphasis on drafting a guy like Terrence McGee of Buffalo who will not only start, but get the extra return yardage.
 
98Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 13:07 		I don't see why we wouldn't make it a proposal. That extra bench spot is likely 36 less IDP's (factoring in 50% will use their backup on a offensive player and 50% on defense) on the waiver wire, which would put us more in balance with what we are trying to accomplish.

huh?

An extra idp flex is 24 less players. If we added another bench spot, that's another 24 less and will also undoubtedly take away even more O players.
 
99Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 14:11 		Sorry if that came off as somewhat confusing as I generally dont proofread most of my posts :)

I'm figuring that the extra proposed bench spot would be utilized by 1/2 the managers in drafting/signing an IDP instead of a offensive player, and estimated that the total would be 36 additional IDP's off the waiver wire that likely would've been there last season.
 
100Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 16:15 		There isn't an extra proposed bench spot.

The only opinions thus far--including yours--was to add an IDP flex position. This would add one active player on the team for which we would create an extra player per team and one additional round of drafting--meaning 24 less players on the WW--most of them being IDPs.

Hence the confusion...
 
101Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 19:07 		Slizz is just getting warmed up....Shortly he will get to going to 2 QBs, adding a fullback position, requiring 3 cornerbacks, and adding 2 punters....
 
102Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 19:28 		OK, so let's sum this up into a proposal:

We add one more player to our teams in the form of another IDP Flex position.

Total 13 active 7 Reserves

Everything else stays the same, including Keeper #.
 
103Slizz
      ID: 58622821
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 19:33 		Ref - for formality reasons only...i vote "For"

Toral - we have the flex position for fullback. and 2 flex positions for 3 CBs, problem solved. (yes i know you're breaking balls). As for the punter, average punts baby. Give me Shane Lechler and Brad Maynard anyday. All BS, aside, i think the IDP will definitely help out
 
104Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 19:48 		Damn, I was kind of hoping to add a fullback...
 
105Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 21:16 		Don't know if this the right thread (I always believe in a separate voting thread), but

I vote "Yes"

Toral
 
106Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 21:23 		I'll send an email out to make sure we get full participation.

Just want to be sure there are no other proposals out there and wait for any other discussion on this first.

Need to start hammering down a tentative timeline as well. Looks like we will need to start almost a week earlier this year.
 
107TB
      ID: 395122110
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 01:55 		I vote yes too.

When will we be declaring keepers and how many is it? Also, did we ever say that a certain amount had to be IDP?
 
108Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 11:16 		RE 107

See 106 ;)

9 Keepers. You keep whoever you want.

I know Promize won't be around until Saturday, but I do have a phone number to get his vote. Just waiting for any discussion on this proposal or for any other proposals. Some members haven't even seen this thread I'm guessing.

Adding another round won't change the timeline significantly, so I'll try to get something tentative up by today as far as possible keeper/draft dates.
 
109Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 11:27 		Now about the waiver pickups during the playoffs... could we simply make the proposal say - rosters would be frozen after the last day of the regular season for purposes of determining keepers, but the teams still playing could add/drop and those moves would not impact the list of players they are choosing from for keepers the following year? That way, your kicker breaks a leg, you can at least pick up his replacement? It just seems so silly that we can't make moves such as that.

Perhaps Ref can condense that into something that makes sense, but I figure if we are putting things up to a vote anyway, no harm in throwing in second vote along with it.
 
110Perm Dude
      ID: 12614299
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 11:38 		In the NFL, are you able to add players during the playoffs? If not (and I don't know either way), I'd say we freeze rosters and if players are injured that's too bad.
 
111Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 11:41 		Well let's discuss this some more. Last year you proposed something similar then pulled it. As I said before, DOug had an idea and others weighed in.

Let's say, you have 2 or 3 youngsteers you are storing. With this rule, the first thing I'd do in hte playoffs is dump these guys and find guys who could help me now in the playoffs. IOW, there is no penalty (taking up rosters spots) by holding this rookie QB and the stud who is out for the year, etc.

Another thing to think about--and for some--or even most--it may not matter, but this is the playoffs. Just seems to me that if you're picking up a player during the playoffs, then he really isn't part of the team who made it there. *shrug* That may be a weak point, but this league is so difficult, that if someone found a stud backup RB during the playoffs, that could instantly change things. Regular season is different to me.

If we were going to institute this idea, perhaps whoever you pick up AND whoever you drop are both ineligible to be kept? Also, I'm guessing only top 8 teams would be eligible to do this?
 
112Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 12:31 		OK...

I think we can still get through two preseason games before we do keepers and draft. It will be tighter. Studying last year's schedule and our draft from last year and our time consumed on c clock, It takes less than a day per round. So if we made keepers due on the last day (CBS could run it at day changeover the night of the last game of that week August 18. So keepers due by 11:59 PM ET that day.

Then the draft could start the next evening (Commishs have to get stuff set up) of the 19th or around Noon on the 20th. Yes it would be cutting it close as we'd be getting done around Sept 1st. But even if we don't get the Waivers started until Sept 2nd, with one full day (plus) of Waivers, we'd still have time to get at least one full run of waivers before week 1.

I think we could still get it done by the end of August, but Sept 1st is realistic even if we add that extra round as proposed. The cumulative clock really helps keep the timeline and that will have to be adjusted as well.
 
113Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 12:37 		SO let's do this to make it easier to see quickly...

Tentative Timeline:

Keepers due Mon Aug 18th by 11:59 PM ET
Draft Starts Tues Aug 19th Approx 6PM ET
 
114Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 13:58 		No I don't think NFL teams can add players during their playoffs, but some of these last weeks can get tricky with people resting players etc and those are the weeks we are having our "Super Bowl" - so thats not exactly playing it the way that we have all season either.

i.e. Peyton played great for me all year so he's locked into the playoffs for me... oh but wait, Dungy wants to play him only the first half the last two weeks so I'm screwed. And having his backup handcuffed isn't doing me any good either. But Phil Simms broke a leg and and Hostetler is available and I could add him, drop Sorgi and start Hostetler cause I know he's actually gonna play all game. Why not? Why be forced to play someone that isn't gonna play, or got hurt, or they are protecting from injury cause he was on your team at some arbitrary date 2 weeks before?

And its not like you can handcuff for your TE or your kicker especially either, cause real NFL teams don't (other than an emergency backup) do they? they would sign someone off the street for the next week...
What do they do in that scenario anyway? Can somebody think of a kicker who got hurt during a teams playoff run? did they sign someone off the street?

Guess its because this is the only league I've ever had transactions frozen in the playoffs so it baffles me. If you said teams out of the playoffs can't make moves, I can see that... if you said you can't keep guys added after that deadline, I can see that... but to just be locked in to a group of guys and be forced to used them when so many things can change seems crazy to me. It would pretty much come down to luck. A game of - hope my guy doesn't get hurt or rested for the playoffs, cause it'll cost me the whole season which we played in a completely different manner...
 
115Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 14:20 		GO, several teams intentionally handcuff players right before a playoff run. I figured I wasn't going ot keep this 3rd string RB, so I dumped him for an IDP backup before the playoffs. It's a lot of strategy. I'm open to change.

We scrap week 17 because of the rest issue. Injuries have hurt me and others in the playoffs every season. Fargas going down last year cripled me, but even if I could have replaced him--with whom? Is it fair for me to be able to dump him adn others and still retain their rights just so I can get a backup? What would stop other teams from getting his backup even though they didn't have an injury? Is it fair to have a pre-existing injury or osmeone who just gets hurt then? Can they be D2D or do they hav eto be out for the reg. season? Just so many things to complicate matters. Any proposal should be simple to understand and incorporate. Lord knows we have so many complicated things already! ;)
 
116Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:11 		I know you are just playing devils advocate... more thoughts from the other side -
How do you handcuff a scenario when they plan to play the starter only the first half? and this has happened prior to Week 17 before.
I guess the answer is make sure your players are on crappy teams... cause in a league this deep there aren't enough starting QB's out there to give everyone 2 starting QB's as insurance.
Did you have a backup TE last year then I guess? or just pray he didn't get hurt?
 
117Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 13:25 		Any other opinions on anything that's being discussed?

Any other ideas?
 
118Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 14:09 		Bueller? :)
 
119TB
      ID: 395122110
      Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 01:32 		I am cool with whatever we do. I prefer to keep it simple, but will adjust to whatever changes you decide to make.
 
120Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 15:34 		Well with little discussion, there isn't a lot to go on. Thus far the only proposal out there (that also has enough support for a vote) is the IDP addition.

The Keeper boxes were turned on to your team page last week.
 
121deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Fri, Aug 01, 2008, 21:09 		So as it stands now, we're going to have a vote on adding a flex IDP position and also an additional round to the draft.

Will there be any limitations on the extra round of the draft or can you select anyone?
 
122Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 00:37 		Will be able to draft whoever you want.
 
123deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 19:29 		roger that :)
 
124Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 04, 2008, 23:38 		Well seeing that there is no further discussion and only one proposal that has enough support for a vote, we will have to send out what we have. So last call before vote goes out...
 
125Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Tue, Aug 05, 2008, 09:44 		Playoffs waiver issue - did that gain any traction?

RE: GO Post #109: "Now about the waiver pickups during the playoffs... could we simply make the proposal say - rosters would be frozen after the last day of the regular season for purposes of determining keepers, but the teams still playing could add/drop and those moves would not impact the list of players they are choosing from for keepers the following year? That way, your kicker breaks a leg, you can at least pick up his replacement? It just seems so silly that we can't make moves such as that."
 
126Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 05, 2008, 13:42 		Just what you see here...not much.
 
127Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 13:32 		Well I've tried to hold off so there'd be more discussion or more support for another proposal...to no avail. Vote going out...
 
128Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 13:35 		GO: Now about the waiver pickups during the playoffs

Sorry, I don't understand. What is this thing you call "playoffs"?
 
129Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Aug 07, 2008, 14:06 		Still awaiting votes from Doug, skinneej and Peter N.
 
130Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 01:24 		Here will be our schedule for this year 2008 G24 Schedule.

It's based on the program that Twarpy and Doug came up with last year. Doug made it so all we have to do is fill in the standings in each conference after the end of the regular season and it automatically sets the schedule for us under the parameters we set up. I just checked and I'll finally get to play Philly and GB for the first time ever. I haven't looked to see the two teams I don't play yet.

Figured you'd rather not have that big schedule in this thread so you'd have to scroll all over the place to read stuff.
 
131Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 01:40 		I've tried multiple times to contact Doug and skinneej to get their vote in but for whatever reason they've failed to respond.

So the final vote tally for the proposal is:

Yes: 18
No: 4

The proposal is implemented and I will edit the rules to reflect this.

 
132Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 10:50 		Good job Ref...glad we were able to pass the ruling.
 
133Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 11:23 		I think I remember Doug saying has been travelling, working on a political campaign for a good part of this year... so perhaps his internet access is sporadic.
 
134Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 12:25 		Nah, I was able to get him on AIM after posting this. He's been around and saw the emails, but hadn't been to the thread so he wasn't sure what the vote was for, etc. We could have waited another day or so if need be.

Doug is very busy and on thre road through Novemeber, but he has been able to get online enough to touch base for the most part. So we know everything is good with him. Skinneej did respond that he was back for this year--so not sure why he failed to vote. Let's hope he's out of town on business or something w/o access to email...or out of the office since the only email I have for him now that works is his work email.
 
135Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 14:27 		RE: Trading Deadline

There are three games on the Thursday of week 13. Obviously those players would need to be traded before the freeze of the individual games that week--jsut like any week. (Remember CBS allows us to trade and add/drop players who still haven't been frozen for that week as of last season)
 
136Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 14:36 		To clarify:

The deadline for all other trades for week 13 is Saturday night as we've always had it anyhow before the Thursday night games started three years ago or so. For the first 12 weeks you can trade on Sunday morning--but be sure there is a commish around to approve it.
 
137skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 10:02 		Sorry for not getting back sooner. I've been on the road for business most of the last few months, but this trip was for fun! I was travelling since Wed to catch the 2 Skinnee J's reunion Tour in DC, Raleigh, NC and Norfolk, VA. Didn't make it to NYC this time, but I will be there next month for the last regular season series at Yankee Stadium.

 
138Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 17:26 		Thanks for the email, sj. It's good to know that everything is fine. He said he would have voted yes.

Now some bad news. JTSERB, was just informed of a change in his job. He now is on call 24/7 and is having to ditch some fantasy leagues to compensate. Since he hasn't really started here yet and this one takes quite a bit of time and he's trying to rebuild, he' decided that it might be best to replace him here. So, I am going to go through that now and hope to have a new manager in place asap.
 
139Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 18:12 		My gmail is down...sorry if I don't get back to anyone promptly. I tried to send a group email long ago to G20 leagues but don' think it went through.
 
140Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 22:01 		It did go through, I got it 4 times. Do you want a response to all 4 e-mails? ;)
 
141Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 22:30 		Yeah, I'm taking some ribbing from several of you. GMail said it did not go through, but I got 4 emails myself too. It went through a LONG time after I tried to send it though.

I'll try and get the keeper thread up asap since they are due in a week.
 
142Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 10:22 		Hi Ref - I have a guy who recently joined my team @ work who is really into fantasy football. Would anyone have an objection of nominating him for SW's old squad?
 
143gshade
      ID: 43725129
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 10:53 		Hey guys, jay (slizz)has informed me about a possible opening in the league. He has been pumping up this FF format for the past week or so and has me really interested. I am a huge redskins fan and penn state grad, and when i play madden or NCAA it is always dynasty mode. I understand I may not be starting with the best team in the league, but that's no big deal---i really enjoy those kinds of challenges and will certainly uphold the integrety of the league.
 
144Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 11:07 		I'm still talking to interested parties. There will definitely be a qualified person to take this team. I'm always amazed of the people outside our league who pay attention.

Really stressing to these potential replacements how much research and time this could take--esp. while in rebuilding mode. Thing is that Slizz was in rebuilding mode last year and just barely missed out on the playoffs. Another move (or non-move) or two and he'd have been there. The cupboard isn't bare for the Chiefs--just lacks depth.

Ideally, we will have a replacement named today.
 
145Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 11:24 		I can assure you that he would be an asset to the league. My experiences with him leave me with the impression that he is a very knowledgeable fan and experienced Fantasy Footballer who would embrace the challenge and active posting that this league warrants.

After going over his keepers, he definitely has 4 studs (Russell/AGonz/Willis/Bulluck) for this type of league, 2 guys who could be really good (Jerry Porter & LaMont), and the chargers defnese...

Throw in Derrick Mason, you've got 8 viable keepers on that squad where it is a solid draft away from a playoff spot. Also, if i'm correct...he has #1 waiver priority as well.

Either way, keep us posted Ref!
 
146Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 11:29 		Slizz, I've never even talked to your boy yet. Ordinarily, I prob wouldn't even consider him, but after how great of find you've been--I'll be happy to speak to him, but as I said in my email to you--he needs to contact me asap via email.
 
147Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 14:51 		Great find Slizz. I think we have it narrowed down to 2 now. We just want to be sure we have an active manager who has the time, knowledge and energy yo get this team "fixed." I mean the team did win 7 games last year so it's not like it was run into the ground. Some bad breaks-esp at RB hurt.
 
148Perm Dude
      ID: 19751117
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 15:43 		Tell your friend to start posting on RotoGuru, slizz. He needs to build up some board cred!
 
149Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 17:52 		Keeper thread is up!

Let the wheelin and dealin begin!
 
150Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 00:03 		Make sure you list the keepers and the guys you're going to drop. If you're not sure, that's fine you can change them. But, it's better not to list them yet then to list too many names.
 
151 skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 15:31 		Looking to package a few players for draft picks or combination of picks/players:

Champ Bailey
Zach Thomas
James Farrior
KGB
TJ Duckett
Reggie Williams (JAX)
 
152Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 17:11 		After many discussions, we've decided to give Shade the Chiefs team. We are lucky to have a very qualified guy who can jump in--in a moments notice--if needed.

So Congratulations Shade!
 
153Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 08:43 		Congratulations and good luck.
 
154Great One
      ID: 497221412
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 13:28 		G-Shady has already chimed in more than 75% of the G24 league has this offseason.
Everybody else keeps hitting the snooze button on their 2008 NFL season alarm clock or something.

Thats ok, cause while they are sleeping... GO is taking over! :)
 
155Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 15:38 		Yeah, it's been a slow pre-season in terms of discussion. Never been this slow before.
 
156THK
      ID: 157231417
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 18:24 		Will trade picks or package players to upgrade Steve Smith and/or Chris Chambers if anyone is interested...
 
157Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 18:59 		TB: Thanks for positng your keepers and dropped players. One year we went to just listing Keepers only and the league protested saying it really helped them with trading ideas and drafting possibilities.
 
158Great One
      ID: 207431418
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 19:48 		Those not listing dropped players really are saying they don't have an interest in improving their team or are just too lazy to do it... cause seriously, if you just take 5 seconds to write them there, somebody might offer you a mid round draft pick for your leftovers and you just got something for nothing.
 
159 Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 23:35 		I want to explore putting up the #2 overall pick up for sale. I plan to do the trade AFTER keepers are declared and the draft starts, but can begin discussions in advance... so if you want your pick of all these good young rookie RB's, offer me an under 25 keeper level RB/WR paired with a lower pick.

i.e. if I were making this offer to myself... I would offer up somebody like Santonio Holmes plus say a 2nd-3rd rounder to jump up into the #2 spot.
I will be in Boston over the weekend and mostly out of touch from tomorrow afternoon through Monday morning, but throw some offers out there for me to review prior to draft day.
 
160Promize
      ID: 8857295
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 07:21 		1- It is obvious I haven't made my final decision on my keepers. Hence the two players.

2- It is just as easy to go to CBS webpage and see my roster as it is to list who I think I might be dropping right now. I also have who is up for trade in the "On the Block" section.

To much un-necessary drama before the season has even started gents. :) Let us have fun!

Closer to monday I'll fix my post. I just made a new move to Atlanta, so wanted to atleast have something on paper so to speak.
 
161Great One
      ID: 497221412
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 08:51 		1 - Yes, at least you put something down to cover yourself while you figure it out, and thats a smart move. But its just funny that 3 people post their keepers without who they plan to drop - after the commish specifically asks everybody to list those players.
I can imagine how annoyed that must make Ref, so I am just trying to support that thought so he doesn't always look like the bad guy.

2 - Unfortunately there are several of us who can't get on the CBS website for large parts of our day which makes browsing the website a bit difficult. Also, we have no idea who your extras our based on staring at your team on the CBS site. We'd be guessing on the fringe guys cause its not locked in. If you state your intentions here (even if they are tentative) they only benefit you by giving other teams that are trying to fill out their 9 keepers, ideas of who they can offer up a pick for.
 
162Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 10:43 		1. Many of us haven't figured out their keeps--hence why more haven't posted. But, if you want to have something down on paper to cover yourself, post nine. This is the official thread. Having 10 listed is invalid. You can always change it by Monday.

2. What GO said.

Personally I could care less if you have dropped players listed, but many other managers do. Also, I am the one getting the messages from managers complaining about it.

Also, I want to comment that if you have a suggestion or proposal, please post in in the thread. I will rarely post it for you. I understand the sensitive nature of things at times, but please put your own name behind ideas/suggestions, etc.
 
164Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 10:54 		Good idea GO, here is what I am looking at right now:

Definite Keepers
QB - Tarvaris Jackson
RB - LenWhale White
WR - Andre Johnson
WR - Jerricho Cotchery
TE - Greg Olsen
DST- Jacksonville Jaguars
LB - A.J. Hawk

Tenative Keepers (I will keep 2 of the below-mentioned guys) **OPEN TO TRADE IDEAS!!!**
QB - Kyle Orton
QB - Kellen Clemens (do i hold for Favre's 1 and done?)
WR - Deion Branch
WR - Marty Booker
K - Rob Bironas
DL - Mario Williams
LB - Will Witherspoon

Non-Keepers
RB - Mike Bell
RB - Brian Leonard
WR - Maurice Stovall
DL - Adewale Ogunleye (could make a case, but I have super mario!)
 
165Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 13:28 		Also remember that the Keeper thread is kept for historical documentation. (To remember keepers and who dropped players). I know that when I see players in the draft, I sometimes go back to see who dropped them. So I guess for that reason, having dropped players listed is also good for me as well. CBS doesn't document players who get dropped when the keepers run.
 
166Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 14:14 		CBS has defaulted your e-reports and notifciations to OFF. Be sure you go in and turn those on in your personal options and set them to what ones you want to see. I've gotten several notificatins--including trading block, trades made, etc. because I turned mine on.
 
167Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 15:34 		Had some inquiries/offers for a few of my players who are on the cusp--including Barnett, Crosby and Graham. Depending on which cheat sheet you look at, Crosby and Graham are rated #3/4 respectively. Barnett is also a top tier LB. I'd still liek to keep at least two of them but don't think it's possible. So I need to upgrade an existing player in a multi-player deal or perhaps get draft picks out of them. I have a couple other players who may interest a few of you who can be had for cheaper--but these are the top 3 thus far.
 
168blackjackis21
      ID: 417571518
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 20:18 		Keepers
Tony Romo
Reggie Wayne
Jamal Lewis
Chester Taylor
Josh Brown
Bears D
Jared Allen

I can keep 2 of (i.e. will take picks for)
Ernie Sims
Kevin Kolb
Kolby Smith
DJ Hackett

Trash Bin:
Bo Scaife
Reggie Nelson
Bart Scott
Kyle Boller
Cecil Sapp
Andre Davis
Terry Glenn
S. Janikowski
 
169Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 22:42 		Schedule has been input into CBS. Please check them as I haven't yet. It's easy to make mistakes with the CBS dropdowns and trying to keep the rows matched-up. Here is the schedule I used for input.

This is a template that Doug created last year and all we have to do is input the regulear season standings for each division and it creates the schedule with these rules:

1. Play every team in your division twice… once during a bye-week, once during a non-bye-week
2. Play every team in the other division in your conference once
3. Play every team in the other conference once… except that 1 seeds don't play 6 seeds (based on previous season finish)… same for 2/5 and 3/4… a VERY MINOR strength of schedule adjustment for a 26-game schedule
4. 2 conference games to kick off the season week 1, and closing out the regular season weeks 12 and 13
5. 1 conference game and 1 non-conference game per week for weeks 2-11
6. If you play an opponent who was 1st in their division the prior season, your other opponent that week should generally be 4th-6th… with a few exceptions
 
172Slizz
      ID: 21733916
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 08:36 		Keepers as of 8/18 @ 8:30am EST
QB - Tarvaris Jackson
RB - LenWhale White
WR - Andre Johnson
WR - Jerricho Cotchery
WR - Deion Branch
TE - Greg Olsen
DST- Jacksonville Jaguars
LB - A.J. Hawk
LB - Will Witherspoon

Could be Keepers
QB - Kyle Orton
QB - Kellen Clemens
RB - Brian Leonard (could play if steven jackson continues to hold out!)
WR - Marty Booker
K - Rob Bironas
DL - Mario Williams

Non-Keepers
RB - Mike Bell
WR - Maurice Stovall
DL - Adewale Ogunleye (could make a case, but I have super mario!)

I am still entertaining offers for Deion Branch & Will Witherspoon...
 
173gshade
      ID: 43725129
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 09:22 		Chiefs keepers:

QB- jamarcus russell
RB- Lamont Jordan
RB- dominic rhodes
WR- Anthony Gonzalez
WR- Derrick Mason
K- Robbie Gould
Def- Chargers
LB- Keith Bulluck
LB- Patrick Willis


 
174deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 13:28 		this is the wrong thread for keepers guys....

Keeper declarations are over here
 
175Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 15:07 		As far as the chart is concerned, I probably would say copy the baseball format with the 2 rows. gets a little messy with the scrolling.
 
176Slizz
      ID: 517361522
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 18:49 		TRADE NOTIFICATION:

Slizz's Bills sends Kyle Orton & pick 11.15 to CCR's Bears for Trent Green & pick 4.05.

CCR please accept on sportsline and confirm that the trade is good to go.
 
177Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:00 		TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT:

Shade's Chiefs recieve:

Jason Campbell, QB, Redskins
Draft Pick 1.18
Draft Pick 2.18


Myboyjack's Bengals recieve:

Jamarkus Russel, QB, Raiders
Draft Pick 1.10
Draft Pick 3.01

Shade please confirm here.
 
178gshade
      ID: 357551320
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:00 		Shade's chiefs send J Russell & picks 1.10 and 3.01 to MyBoyJack's Bengals for J Campbell & picks 1.18 and 2.18

 
179gshade
      ID: 357551320
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:01 		lol, You beat me to it. confirmed.
 
180ccrider
      ID: 477321720
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:18 		trade with slizz confirmed: orton & 11.15 for green & 4.05.
 
181Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:19 		176 and 177 approved.

Still several not marked keepers on cbs site. A few not marked in our thread and a few not posting drops.
 
182Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:21 		Hmmm...mbj has some secret plan here, but damn if I can figure it out.
 
183gshade
      ID: 357551320
      Mon, Aug 18, 2008, 21:41 		if you need to get in touch with me please email me at gps5000@psu.edu or greg.shade11@gmail.com

my yahoo account is not active for some reason
 
185gshade
      ID: 43725129
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 08:48 		Ref, just a heads up on the new draft table...

the chiefs will have pick 1.18 and the bengals will have 3.01.

I also believe that 3.18 belongs to the bengals
 
187Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 14:06
  Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6
1 GO's Jets Shade's Chiefs mbj's Bengals Ref's Colts Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs
2 GO's Jets Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars
3 AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons
4 Toral's Saints PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns
5 Yokel's Jaguars CCR's Bears CCR's Bears Slizz's Bills CCR's Bears CCR's Bears
6 CCR's Bears GO's Jets Toral's Saints Toral's Saints GO's Jets Toral's Saints
7 Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks
8 mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers
9 bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans
10 mbj's Bengals PD's Browns Doug's Raiders GO's Jets GO's Jets GO's Jets
11 sj's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers
12 Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos
13 Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Cards' 49ers bj21's Rams
14 Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys
15 Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills
16 DS' Eagles ds' Eagles ds' Eagles Doug's Raiders ds' Eagles ds' Eagles
17 Cards' 49ers Twarpy's Giants Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers
18 Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals
19 DS' Eagles Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders GO's Jets
20 thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings
21 TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens
22 Slizz's Bills CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals
23 Ref's Colts Shade's Chiefs Slizz's Bills Ref's Colts Ref's Colts Ref's Colts
24 Twarpy's Giants  bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams
           
Round 7 Round 8 Round 9 Round 10 Round 11
1 Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs Shade's Chiefs
2 Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars Yokel's Jaguars
3 AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons AF's Falcons
4 PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns PD's Browns
5 CCR's Bears CCR's Bears CCR's Bears CCR's Bears CCR's Bears
6 Toral's Saints Toral's Saints Toral's Saints Toral's Saints Toral's Saints
7 Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks Promize's Seahawks
8 mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers mjd's Chargers
9 bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans bmd's Texans
10 Toral's Saints Toral's Saints GO's Jets GO's Jets GO's Jets
11 SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers SJ's Packers
12 Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos Coyotes' Broncos
13 Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants Twarpy's Giants
14 Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys Pete's Cowboys
15 Slizz's Bills Ref's Colts Slizz's Bills Slizz's Bills CCR's Bears
16 ds' Eagles ds' Eagles ds' Eagles ds' Eagles ds' Eagles
17 Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers Cards' 49ers
18 mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals mbj's Bengals
19 Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders Doug's Raiders
20 thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings thk's Vikings
21 TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens TB's Ravens
22 CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals CT's Cardinals
23 Ref's Colts Ref's Colts Ref's Colts Ref's Colts Ref's Colts
24 bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams bj21's Rams
Picks Altered Due to Draft Lottery
Pick Traded
Pick Traded Twice
 
188StLCards
      Dude
      ID: 31010716
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 16:23 		I posted the payment info on the league message board. You should get that message via email if you have the site configured that way. If not, then you can get the relevant information from the message board post itself.
 
189Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 17:12 		I know some are getting anxious. Have just a few more things to do.

Cards and I are trying to decide on the cumulative clock (post 277). Added rounds. Only had one time out last year and no one else was even close. WIth four more rounds and roughly the same schedule--we're going to have to boogie--but have to blaance that with enough wiggle room so we can minimize skipped picks. I forgot all about this until just now.

Here is last year's draft for historical perspective. Could be much different this year with all the IDPs, but if it can help you decide...there you go.

As Cards and I have both mentioned, please go to options on CBS and turn on notifications of your choosing.

The draft will start as soon as we get the threads up. GO already has a heads up that it could be before 6:00 and he is ready.

Remember that the draft and discusion during the draft will be in the Football Leagues Forum under separate threads.
 
190Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 052347519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 18:01 		I someone available to take a queue? I pick 5th and have to head to back to school night here for a couple of hours.
 
191Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 19, 2008, 18:03 		Draft Thread

Draft Discussion

Please move our discussion to the Draft Discussion thread.