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| Posted by: ChicagoTRS
- [51828221] Thu, Dec 22, 2005, 18:20
General Poker discussion... |
| | | 1 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Dec 22, 2005, 21:12
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SNG's used to be my bread and butter on pokerstars, and I usually was quite happy to take a 2nd or 3rd place instead of a 1st. Imho they differ from the big multi-table tournies in that thought.
A big multi-table tourney you want to finish on the final table, to take home the huge prizes there. Especially after playing for at least 3-4 hours in most cases. To do that, you often have to be willing to coin flip and push to steal big pots. Playing tight will usually only get you to the early money, with a small stack.
However, in a SNG (that I would usually play at least 2 or 3 of at the same time) the goal was placing in the money. Quite often, by just playing tight and being willing to let two others tangle, I'd move up in the money order and finish 2nd or 3rd instead of 5th by 'trying to win it all'. Too, I feel that once I get heads up with a guy I still have a good shot at winning (even if I'm a 2:1 underdog in chips) and so survival until then is my goal.
So in bmd's example I'm folding, more then likely moving into the money and going from there.
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| | | 2 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 17:57
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One of the best hands I ever played (luck? or instinct? )
$10+1 SNG. I am 2nd bigest stack at table with 2 of 9 already gone.
***
Dealer: Hand #351840329
Dealer: CRD Money posts the small blind of 30
Dealer: skankboy posts the big blind of 60
Dealer: You have been dealt [Ah Ad] <-- NICE!!
Dealer: Judicium folds
Dealer: Silver_rs folds
Dealer: smashin222 folds
Dealer: REVENGE I SEEK folds
Dealer: He-Gone4 folds
Dealer: CRD Money calls 30
Dealer: skankboy raises to 120
Dealer: CRD Money calls 60
Dealer: The flop is [As 8s Th] <- figured I'd semi-slow play and he'd call me since he bet into me
Dealer: CRD Money bets 60
Dealer: skankboy raises to 120
Dealer: CRD Money calls 60
Dealer: The turn is [Ts]
Dealer: CRD Money checks
Dealer: skankboy checks I have no idea, but I thought he made a set 10s here and I have the big boat, so i am planning to come over top of him on the river for all-in as I think I am feighning weakness here.
Dealer: The river is [Tc]
Dealer: CRD Money checks If he had bet any amount (even all-in, I'd have been obligated to call- no way I lay it down.
Dealer: skankboy checks I felt "the trap" and checks as I figured I'd be happy with my small pot at this point in the SnG
Dealer: skankboy shows a full house, Aces full of Tens
Dealer: CRD Money shows four of a kind, Tens <- WOW WOW I avoided a catastrophe
Dealer: CRD Money wins the pot (480) with four of a kind, Tens
***
OK, this was only a $10 SnG, but this could have easily been a $10/$20 NL game for me with 4 figures in my stack. I feel lucky. Any feedback? I can't imagine (with the benefit of hindsight) that I could have bet him out of the pot at any point except pre-flop and I was happy to get a small call with AA heads up VS the SB.
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| | | 3 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 18:05
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Nothing wrong with slowplaying, except that slowplaying can also be called "letting my opponent make a 2nd best hand so he'll give me money for my better hand." With a set of aces, this certainly qualifies, but its always important to remember to dump the hand if you feel you let him make a better hand. Quite hard to do with a boat of AAA1010, so definite props to you on that. You felt you were beat and made the right play.
Me, on a flop like that, I'm probably betting out in case he's on a spade flush draw. I'll rarely slowplay a big hand that can be beat by 9 or more outs on the turn. However, nothing wrong with slowplaying either, as long as you are able to get away from the hand later if unfavorable cards come.
How did you finish?
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| | | 4 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 18:24
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playing final 3 spots right now. 2nd high stack
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| | | 5 | mMoses
ID: 51115143
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 18:30
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R9:
any new updates on the site you've been trying? paradise I think you said it was.
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| | | 6 | wiggs
ID: 5311122318
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 20:48
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RFS, Still waiting to see you at a table. I stopped into a multitable tourney to see you once, but you didnt respond. Hope all is well.
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| | | 7 | wiggs
ID: 5311122318
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 21:05
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Anyone fimiliar with FTP, I am trying to download poker at my wifes parents house, but some reason I am going getting it to load for play money. Am I doing something wrong, or is there a problem with the computer?
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| | | 8 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 21:36
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Does anyone know of a cursory chart that gives %s for good hands hot-and-cold?
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| | | 9 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 23:22
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#5, Pacific Poker is the site, and its going great. I put in 50$ last Thursday, and I'm up to 880$. Even cashed out my original 50$ too, so 880$ profit in 8 days. Been able to play about 3 hours a day while I'm on xmas break, though none in the last day or so.
I play mostly 100$ NL now (.50/1$ blinds) and occasionally the 2/4$ limit tables when the view flop %'s hit over 60-70%. (Usually during peak hours on the West Coast.)
A few notes on the site: The table interface is actually nice, but any extras you are used to at other sites aren't present. Such as:
- The hand history isn't viewable from the table your on, you have to exit to the lobby to see it. It loads the table screen and replays the entire hand as if you were replaying it, which is kindof nice... except that it doesn't let you get any email reports like every other site.
- You can only play one table at a time.
- The chat box is very clumsy.
- Cashouts take 3 days.
However, in a sort of wierd twisted way, I think all of those are strengths. (Except for the cashout delay.) All of those features enable players to get better and play better, so without them the fish stay fish and never really improve.
On sites where you can play multiple tables, the urge to play weak holdings is far less; Just load up another table if your getting cold cards, and the urge is gone. Here though, people get sick of waiting for a good hand and play alot more.
Also, with no hand history worth speaking of, people definitely can't input their hands into pokertracker and see how they're doing and where they need help.
So I wouldn't recommend it to those looking to improve their play, as any feature to help you is not there. Its definitely full of very weak players however, so if you feel your decent at poker (I don't even think I'm all that good yet, just better than a rookie) its a nice site to make money at.
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| | | 10 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 00:27
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bili, are you looking for a preflop hand chart, or a site that will compare the odds of two hands vs. each other?
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| | | 11 | mMoses
ID: 51115143
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 00:54
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R9:
sounds pretty good. I'll look into it after boxing day, and if I get bored of one table - I'll just loadup another site at the same time so I can play 3 extra tables elsewhere. The one table thing would definitely make lots of people impatient... It's the main reason I play 4 tables.
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| | | 12 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 14:25
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I'm thinking of perhaps some sort of hand ranking, pre-flop all-in. Maybe even a chart of odds against h-to-h against calling hands.
Why I ask is that I played a tourney yesterday:
Final table, 5 players left, all more experienced, better players than me, except maybe 1 guy.
Blinds 200-400.
I'm small stack, 1300.
I'm dealt A7 under the gun. I pushed and ran into QQ big blind.
Usually I don't play A7, but I was trying to adjust to the gap concept and the number of players left. I was hoping to steal the blinds, and maybe have a decent shot heads-up if called. A7 heads-up seems like a decent hand, but I'd like to get a little more analytical.
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| | | 13 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 14:28
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Also, at the time, I was pretty convinced I should either push or fold, but maybe that was wrong. I figured if someone had a calling hand, I would end up all-in anyway, with the small number of chips I had.
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| | | 14 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 14:56
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bili...I think you were probably right to push with A7...with such a small stack you would only go through the blinds 2 more times (and really you would like to double up before you go through the next blinds)...when you are that short you just have to pick two good cards and get your money in and hope to double up. The one reason you might pass is if another player has an even smaller stack than yours and you will get paid more for finishing 4th vs 5th.
You are correct when you are a short stack in most cases you should either fold or go all-in...if you just call the big blind you are probably pot committed whatever flops anyway.
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| | | 15 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 16:24
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Yeah, I was the short stack, though it wasn't all that uneven. Probably ranged 1500-3500, with two relatively even big stacks. Only 3 table tourney, so the prizes ranged 1-5, $300-$20. 4th was $40. I got my buy-in back. I was playing to win.
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| | | 16 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Dec 25, 2005, 22:17
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This is kinda what I was looking for, though I don't know their assumptions regarding what hands you would be playing against. You can't just calculate vs. all possible hands. Sure, with an A7 my chances of winning are 59% heads-up to the river, but they aren't 59% against the hands that anyone would call with in that situation. If I'm called, I would be lucky to get 25%.
Also, here's an online odds calculator at twodimes.
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| | | 17 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Mon, Dec 26, 2005, 15:44
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bili -
In your position, first rocket I see, I'm going all-in. First pair I see, I'm going all-in. First suited connecter I see, I'm going all-in. First high connectors I see, I'm going all-in. First paint-paint hand I see, I'm going all in. First time I see two people betting more than my stack, I'm all-in trying to triple up. And I'm praying for two live cards. You can't wait for the big blind to commit you with some random cards. With barely 3x the big blind in your stack, you can't wait for a premium hand. A7 off IS a premium hand in that spot. You are overstating the chances that you'll only get called with premium hands. Odds are better than you think that you'll get called by someone with a non-premium hand just trying to knock you out, especially if it doesn't impact their stack that much. You just got unlucky that you ran into the ladies.
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| | | 18 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 10:43
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Yeah, that was my philosophy too, and I appreciate the reassurance that you think it's correct. I would still like to see some sort of hand rankings, or odds against typical calling hands h-to-h all-in to the river, if anyone knows of someone who's done any similuations.
I don't see a description of how the table in the first link in 16 was generated, so I am not sure how to interpret it.
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| | | 19 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 12:28
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I don't see a description of how the table in the first link in 16 was generated, so I am not sure how to interpret it.
If it's generated as these tables usually are, it would be interpreted as everyone turning over their cards and seeing which hand is best after the river. E.g. nobody folds. So the first line is AA vs. X random hands, where all X+1 random hands are played to the river.
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| | | 20 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 12:36
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That's my guess as well. That's only marginally useful.
You are overstating the chances that you'll only get called with premium hands.
Really? That's not my (admittedly limited) experience, and these guys were playing quite tight. Not many chances taken vs. a raise, but more liberal hands are played if they are the first to raise.
The philosophy of the better players (who tend to be the ones that end up at the final table) is avoid the horse-races, steal as many blinds as possible and let someone else take the chances, except with premium hands.
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| | | 21 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 15:20
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bili...I think it depends on the respective stack sizes. Generally one of the blinds if they have a decent stack is getting proper odds to make that call with any two cards.
In your example where you have 1300 and go all-in UTG. It is only 900 for the BB to call for a chance to win 1900 (your 1300, SB 200, BB 400). Has to be worse than a 2 to 1 dog before the flop for it to be a bad call..as long as the big stack has two live cards and you do not have an overpair he is most times getting the proper odds to make the call.
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| | | 22 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 15:35
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Here is a pretty good odds calculator...can calculate odds at any point during a hand. Not really useful to use while you are playing but good for inputting hands and seeing/understanding odds...just running different scenarios. Nice GUI.
Odds Calculator
Hands chart...seems pretty reasonable...
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| | | 23 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 15:42
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I see your point, but don't you generally want to avoid going broke or significantly hurting your chances to win, even if you may have slight EV+ but are potentially the underdog to win? I.e skip the 47-53 horse-races if you can avoid it?
The BB that called, he was a middle stack (around 2500, iirc), so maybe it would make sense for him to call with less than queens, given that he's already committed 400, but he's probably not going to call with K9 or 98s, even if his pot odds dictate he should. If he loses he's just turned himself into short stack on a gamble, and he's now 1 more gamble away from going broke.
So if that's the case, I want to know what sort of chances the top 30 or so hands have against K10 or better (as opposed to all possible hands).
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| | | 24 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 17:21
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Just a matter of playing style whether you play in all cases where the odds are potentially in your favor. In your tournament where to me it sounds like everyone has a low amount of chips relative to the blinds...with 2500 and the blinds at 200-400 I would start feeling shortstacked. He is only going through the blinds 2 more times before he is in desperation mode...so maybe a coin flip is not such a bad proposition. Minimally I would expect the BB to call you in that spot with most of the hands listed as early postion (red) in the chart I linked minus some of suited connectors (J10, Q10, QJ...KT) and maybe add 99...
I guess in that case it just depends on his read on you...whether to lay down a hand like K-10...I think K-10 is marginal could go either way. Once the blinds start eating significant parts of your stack you just have to basically put your money in with any decent cards. I think it makes it more likely someone would be willing to gamble on a coin flip or to play if they have a slight edge because the blinds are expensive and you are not going to be able to see enough hands to sit and wait until you have the nuts or are sure you are in great shape.
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| | | 25 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 17:29
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bili, that's an auto push. In that situation I'm probably pushing with 22+, Ax, Kx, Q7+, and most connectors. With a short stack and no other players close to you in chips you have to push almost any 2.
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| | | 26 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 17:53
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bili, that's an auto push. In that situation I'm probably pushing with 22+, Ax, Kx, Q7+, and most connectors.
I think I agree in general, beastie. Though do you have justification for that list?
What I've been trying to get at is that the typical hand rankings that I've more or less memorized from Sklansky and Miller could potentially be not all that good for heads-up against calling hands. Drawing hands like high connectors and suited connectors in particular seem like they would lose quite a bit of value, and high card hands like Ax Kx seem like they should gain quite a bit of value against calling hands (K10+). Suitedness itself seems to be significantly less important (2% advantage or so).
What I am hoping to find is some sort of quantified alternate ranking, based on something more than intuition for this situation, which seems to come up quite a bit in no-limit tourneys.
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| | | 27 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 18:04
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TRS' chart in 22 might be an attempt at such a ranking, though I couldn't find it, or a description for it's application in the link.
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| | | 28 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 21:35
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Heads up, small suited connectors lose alot of value. Their value is usually in limping into a multiway pot. Heads up late in a tourney, Ax is all you can hope for when you have ~ 4-5 hands left to push. Your A-high will hold up more often then not. Thats the same thinking with Kx, although obviously a dog to any calling A. When its just you vs. the blinds though, Kx looks decent. Suitedness isn't a factor at the end of NL tournies imho. Those hand charts of Sklanksy (you talking about Small Stakes Hold'em?) are for limit poker as well, things do change quite a bit with the switch to NL. Suited hands are far more valuable in limit ring games.
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| | | 29 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 22:07
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"Suited hands are far more valuable in limit ring games."
Suited connectors are generally more valuable in NL vs Limit...strong drawing hands with the potential to make a big hand are generally more valuable in NL. Full game not shorthanded.
I found that hand chart at some random site...the site was pretty worthless...chart is good but probably a little loose IMO especially facing any raises or on aggressive tables but gives a good idea of how you should change values of hands with position etc...
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| | | 30 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 22:22
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"Suited connectors are generally more valuable in NL vs Limit...strong drawing hands with the potential to make a big hand are generally more valuable in NL. Full game not shorthanded."
I agree, I should've clarified my statement. Suitedness is more of an increase in value in limit vs. NL. A KJos is unplayable in early position in limit, but suited it can be limped in with.
In NL, a suited connector like 78s is surprisingly not that much better then a 78os. I realize I'll probably get some disagreement there, but the main value of 78 is making the nut straight from a 456 board, not from making a flush. A non-nut flush is just a decent hand, and you have to add in the times you lose to a higher flush. (Which obviously costs you alot when it happens.)
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| | | 31 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 22:52
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The beauty of mid suited connectors in NL is the hidden strength and that generally they are easy to get away from if you do not hit on the flop or only catch partial. Low straights are a beautiful thing.
They are monsters vs hands like AKo and even sometimes against big overpairs if you can hit a good flop. Have won some of my biggest pots with mid suited cards.
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| | | 32 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 23:16
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Agreed. People get way too attached to their big pair or AK. Still, I find I take pots with 78os as much as I do with 78s. Usually by spiking two pair or a straight. The figure if I called a 4x raise preflop, there's no way a 458 flop helps me.
Do you have stats on your weekly and monthly winnings TRS? Whats an average week like for you?
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| | | 34 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Wed, Dec 28, 2005, 10:17
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What is your average week? Time spent playing?
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| | | 35 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Wed, Dec 28, 2005, 10:20
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I keep full records of my play...been playing regularly now for 2 years. Average week is ~+400.
1200+ hours (majority of it multi-tabling)
best day +1862
worst day -2801 (tilt is not your friend)
session win 75.1%
My resolution for the beginning of the year is to cleanup/complete my stats spreadsheet. Will offer out a blank version when I complete.
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| | | 36 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Dec 28, 2005, 10:37
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I kept a rough spreadsheet when I played this summer, mostly on Pokerstars and then later on Partypoker. I 'averaged' a whopping ~ 50$ a week profit, though most of that came from my one big tourney finish that netted over 400$. I quit once my semester got pretty heavy, and picked it back up on Thursday, Dec 15th. Since then, I've turned 50$ into 1075$ over at Pacific Poker, playing mostly 100$ NL. (Had it up to 1200$ last night, but hit two set under sets to drop ~ 150$. That sucked.)
I've probably played about 2-3 hours a day on average, with none on the 24th or 25th as I was drunk/celebrating with family. ;) I'm going to start setting up a more detailed spreadsheet, so I can keep track of my progress. Would love to see yours though, to see what your columns/rows are.
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| | | 37 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 01:13
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Good night tonight...decided to play 3 shorthanded tables just to keep things interesting and destroyed all 3...at least doubled...and had 5x max buyin on one table. Seemed like every time I semi-bluffed with a draw I got there...and then got payed off to top it. Noone was reraising my semi-bluffs (which helps immensely) but then when my card would hit invariably someone would try to go to battle with me.
Took ~350 from the player on my left (which is not easy)...he was the chip leader when I sat down...he ended up having to rebuy a few times...not a bad player either...every time I was bluffing he seemed to fold and when I made a hand he made a strong 2nd best and would bet and call aggressively. I know towards the end he had to be steaming.
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| | | 38 | Micheal
ID: 1010242320
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 06:19
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In 15 hands I had 4 sets. K,8,6,3 and lost all 4 to flushes. Very frustrating. Cost me about $100 on those 4 sets.
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| | | 39 | Micheal
ID: 1010242320
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 06:21
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All on the river too. Makes it sting even more.
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| | | 40 | Micheal
ID: 1010242320
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 08:16
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Somedays I really hate this game. Tournament and heads up. All in pre flop. My A7h to his A4o. Flop is 6c 9s 7c. Turn is 3s and you guessed it- river is 5.
What a horrible day.
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| | | 41 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 12:17
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Read up Doyle's NL section in Super System, and put it to work on a 50$ NL table. Helps that I got a couple hands (one set and a K-flop with AK) but was able to pull in a ridiculous amount of uncontested pots, and left with 200$ after about an hour. I can see this being quite the bankroll swinger though... A couple of calls and my 50$ would've been gone unless I got lucky on my draws.
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| | | 42 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 15:52
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i just hit a royal flush on FTP, is there a way to post it on here?
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| | | 43 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 15:55
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Full Tilt Poker Game #358865975: Table Dancing Leaf - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:50:01 ET - 2005/12/29
Seat 1: sabchez ($96.75)
Seat 2: pkrnutt ($26.70)
Seat 3: flowjoe ($55.75)
Seat 4: renee0501 ($21.90)
Seat 5: reflux ($51)
Seat 6: nws103 ($48.50)
Seat 7: wiggs ($15)
Seat 8: bighooter ($50.05)
Seat 9: Chokko ($0), is sitting out
flowjoe posts the small blind of $0.25
renee0501 posts the big blind of $0.50
wiggs posts $0.50
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wiggs [Kc Tc]
Chokko stands up
reflux calls $0.50
nws103 folds
wiggs checks
bighooter folds
sabchez folds
pkrnutt folds
flowjoe calls $0.25
renee0501 checks
*** FLOP *** [3h Qc Ac]
flowjoe checks
renee0501 bets $1
reflux folds
wiggs calls $1
flowjoe folds
*** TURN *** [3h Qc Ac] [8d]
renee0501 bets $1
Cerberus1 sits down
wiggs calls $1
*** RIVER *** [3h Qc Ac 8d] [Jc]
Cerberus1 adds $28
Cerberus1 is feeling angry
renee0501 checks
wiggs bets $6
renee0501 folds
Uncalled bet of $6 returned to wiggs
wiggs shows [Kc Tc] (a Royal Flush)
wiggs wins the pot ($5.70)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6 | Rake $0.30
Board: [3h Qc Ac 8d Jc]
Seat 1: sabchez didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: pkrnutt (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: flowjoe (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: renee0501 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 5: reflux folded on the Flop
Seat 6: nws103 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: wiggs collected ($5.70)
Seat 8: bighooter didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Chokko is sitting out
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| | | 44 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 16:02
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Congrats, Wiggs! Sorry it wasn't more of a payday.
Cerberus1 is feeling angry
Does the software automatically detect that by how he's betting? ;)
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| | | 45 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 16:07
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you can change your avitar to how you are feeling.
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| | | 46 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 16:15
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Nothing like playing poker with an angry 3 headed dog-creature. Almost as scary as Samoans.
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| | | 47 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 17:04
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I've never had a problem at a poker table, but something funny happened at my local cardroom a couple of weekends ago:
Some dude is playing at an adjacent table (he'd actually started at my table but moved) and acting a little funny - may have been drunk or just spaced out, but nothing bad. He loses all of his chips in a hand and the dealer asks if he wants more while beginning to deal a hand. The dude responds "yes" so the dealer gives him his first card and continues dealing. The dealer asks the player to clarify how much he wants as the 2nd card is dealt in front of him. Not until he checks his hand does he state he wants $100.00 in chips.
Someone calls the floor man over because the guy got to look at his cards before stating how much in chips he was gonna buy. If he had a lousy hand, maybe he only would've bought $40, but since he liked his hand, he said $100. The floor man admitted that the dealer should have waited to find out how much in chips he wanted before dealing, but since he didn't he killed the guy's hand and he started to get agitated and talked back to the floor man, asking for a Manager. The floor man directs him to the manager on duty who is in the cage.
Words are exchanged (I'm not paying that close of attention in the middle of a hand), and the dude yells "Well F*CK YOU! Treating people this way!!" and tosses his cup of coffee onto the manager's shirt through the cage and starts to storm out. The floor man, upon hearing the words, says "Buddy, you'd better calm down or you'll go to jail" - but the floor man hadn't seen the loser throw his coffee.
The manager storms out of the cage, follows the guy out of the club as the security guards (who are packing, btw, ignoring for a moment their size and their nightsticks) close in and he (the manager) cold-cocks the guy in the back of the head!! I didn't see the impending melee, but I think the patron got a small beat-down. lol
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| | | 48 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 17:05
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lol......or, you could say that the patron got a "bad beat"
Bada rump bum bum
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| | | 49 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 17:57
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Congrats on the royal...I have had only 3 in my time playing...didn't get paid much for any of them...one was an all-in preflop.
------------------------
"bad beat" rotflmao
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| | | 50 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 18:36
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wiggs- I'll be playing some $10+$1 SnG's tonight on FTP. Might see you around.
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| | | 51 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 18:46
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I once had 2 royal flushes (online) within 30 mins. The first one paid nada, but the second one was kind of a "cheap" royal flush but paid off big. Can't reacll the exact details, but the basics were:
Flop:
Kh, Qh, Jh
Turn:
10x
River
10h
Only 2 of us in the pot and they other guy was betting into me aggressivly in a $1/$2 NL game.
He ends up going all in after the river and turns over Ax9h for a king high straight flush.
I am holding 9xAh for the royal flush.
We both flopped a huge flush draw and straight draw. We both turned a straight and both rivered a straight flush. No where for eitehr of us to go except to the wall.
I won about $250.00 from him.
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| | | 52 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 21:04
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Here is a funny little sequence...I don't normally verbally spar with people but I was having a little fun with this guy, seemed like an easy mark.
Dealing the Flop(7¨Q©2§)
> iamjay checked
iamjay> q's
> MactanTRS bet for $10
> iamjay folded
> MactanTRS mucked
> MactanTRS wins $20.95 (think I had AK here...)
> ronkan111 posted small blind ($0.50)
> Domidanne posted big blind ($1)
> longdam91 posted to play ($1)
> Game # 629,162,218 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> iamjay raised for $2
> MactanTRS called for $2
> longdam91 raised for $4
iamjay> Q A
> 79ste09 folded
> ronkan111 folded
iamjay> what re raise?
> Domidanne folded
iamjay> A Q
longdam91> oh * my bad
> iamjay called for $3
> MactanTRS called for $3
> Dealing the Flop(2©A¨10§)
longdam91> split pot
longdam91> then
> iamjay checked
> MactanTRS checked
> longdam91 bet for $2
> iamjay called for $2
iamjay> meh
> MactanTRS raised for $6
> longdam91 called for $4
iamjay> might as welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
> iamjay called for $4
> Dealing the turn(7¨)
> iamjay checked
longdam91> pocket tens
longdam91> u got
iamjay> maybe?
> MactanTRS bet for $20
> longdam91 folded
> iamjay folded
> MactanTRS mucked
> MactanTRS wins $52.80 (I had A-10)
> Domidanne posted small blind ($0.50)
> iamjay posted big blind ($1)
> Game # 629,163,586 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
iamjay> *
> longdam91 folded
iamjay> I THINK HE A GOOF BLUFFER
iamjay> FK HIM
iamjay> I FKING HATE HIM
***edited out inconsequential hand***
iamjay> YOUR A BITH!
iamjay> U *
MactanTRS> should have called p u s s y
> iamjay posted small blind ($0.50)
> MactanTRS posted big blind ($1)
> Game # 629,164,790 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> longdam91 folded
iamjay> whatever not calling a guy with pkt 10s
> 79ste09 called for $1
> ronkan111 folded
> Domidanne folded
> iamjay called for $0.50
> MactanTRS checked
> Dealing the Flop(4©Q§6¨)
> iamjay checked
> MactanTRS checked
> 79ste09 checked
> Dealing the turn(10ª)
iamjay> u bluff me i'll bluff u back
> iamjay bet for $1
> MactanTRS called for $1
> 79ste09 folded
> Dealing the river(4¨)
> iamjay bet for $1
> MactanTRS raised for $41 (figured that bet might piss him off enough to do something stupid)
iamjay> omg
MactanTRS> haha
iamjay> wtf?
longdam91> mactan what did u really have
> iamjay went all-in for $99.11
> MactanTRS called for $59.11
> iamjay shows Three of a Kind, Fours
(4©4¨4§K©Q§)
> MactanTRS wins $202.22 with a Full House, Fours full of Tens
> iamjay cannot enter this game because he/she is out of money
MactanTRS> haha
> longdam91 posted small blind ($0.50)
> 79ste09 posted big blind ($1)
> Game # 629,166,230 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
Domidanne> :P
> ronkan111 folded
iamjay> omg
> Domidanne raised for $4
iamjay> omg
iamjay> omg
iamjay> omg
> MactanTRS folded
> longdam91 folded
> 79ste09 folded
> Domidanne mucked
> Domidanne wins $5.50
> 79ste09 posted small blind ($0.50)
> ronkan111 posted big blind ($1)
> Game # 629,166,615 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> Domidanne raised for $2
> MactanTRS folded
> longdam91 folded
> 79ste09 called for $1.50
> ronkan111 called for $1
> Dealing the Flop(J§4¨9§)
> 79ste09 checked
> ronkan111 checked
> Domidanne checked
> Dealing the turn(4§)
iamjay> omg
> 79ste09 checked
iamjay> wtf
iamjay> was
MactanTRS> now THAT WAS FUNNY
iamjay> that
> ronkan111 bet for $3
> Domidanne called for $3
> 79ste09 folded
> Dealing the river(Aª)
iamjay> wow
> ronkan111 checked
iamjay> omg
MactanTRS> rotflmao
iamjay> :(
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| | | 53 | FRICK
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 21:30
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I nice play into a player obviously on tilt.
That hand is a prime example of why you don't ant to let players limp into a pot. Would it be fair to say that you would never have been in the pot if you had to call any type of raise as the BB?
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| | | 54 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 21:46
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Very true I would not even call a minimum raise with 10-4 from BB.
He had cried for about 10 minutes about 20 hands earlier when another player called a big bet with an inside straight draw and caught it on him. Started sparring with him at that time because I figured he was going to scare away an obviously bad player.
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| | | 55 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 22:30
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RFS, I am on now, look for me, I tried to write you, but you didnt respond. I dont know if you didnt see it or what.
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| | | 56 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 23:41
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Just pissed away 100$ of that 200$ I made on the 50$ NL tables trying to play like Doyle. After playing like that for a bit now, I understand the actions loose idiots take a bit more. They've obviously read the book, but aren't good enough to employ the strategy properly. Also, the other players at the table aren't good enough to understand what they're trying to do, so they call with top pair/shitty kicker for more often then Doyle would expect in his high roller games.
The easiest way to make money is to sit at a table with these guys and let them try and steal a pot from you when you get a monster. At least at the limits I play now.
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| | | 57 | Micheal
ID: 811181822
Sat, Dec 31, 2005, 05:48
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Here's a question that I have. How to play bottom pair in a multi way (at least 3 others) pot when you're first or even second to act?
I know that their are a lot of variables, but a small pre flop raise (1-2x BB) and flop is something like 59J rainbow, what is good play if you're first or second to act and you're sitting with the 5?
Bottom pair after the flop is the hardest for me to play and I find myself not wanting to bet it with 3 or 4 others to bet after me. I know that their is no one way to play it but their has to be a successful way (most of the time) to play.
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| | | 58 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sat, Dec 31, 2005, 06:12
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That hand is virtually worthless to me. Besides hands like A9 or AJ that have you dominated, hands like Q10, 10/8, etc. will all call/raise you on straight draws, leaving you with no idea where you stand. Why put yourself in that situation?
Preflop, if I'm going to be in early position postflop (like the small blind) and there's a raise behind me (even a small one), the only hand I'll be playing that has a 5 in it is 55, trying to catch a set. MAYBE A5 suited if the table is real loose, but even that is iffy, as the only reason to play it is the nut flush draw and I won't have position to chase it or have it pay off if I get 2 of my suit on the flop.
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| | | 59 | beastiemiked
ID: 481116721
Sat, Dec 31, 2005, 11:45
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Bottom and middle pair are virtually worthless at a full table. Only exceptions would be if you are heads up or have like bottom pair and flush draw.
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| | | 60 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 13:12
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RE: 35 - TRS
When do you think your spread sheet will be done? I am playing much more seriously now and would like to know what stats to keep track of...currently a session looks like this:
Minutes Played
Starting $$$
Ending $$$
Flop %
Showdown %
Pots won w/o showdown
+/- $$$/hr
Obviously very elementary...but I find it keeps me playing my tight and aggressive game instead of getting bored and varying from what I want to accomplish...What else should I be looking at?
Also, anybody see the upgrades they are going to make at the pokerdb.com? Does anyone use this tool? It is a great thing to use for tournament play on PokerStars and the upgrades are going to be even better!
THK
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| | | 61 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 13:20
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Thats about what my spreadsheet has THK, although I don't have flop or Showdown %'s, as Pacific Poker doesn't offer those stats for individual players. (Partially sucks, but it also means the fish there never get the tools they need to improve... lol)
A question for you guys. In a ring game, say you limp with a hand like JQos 2 spots from the BB, and the BB raises to 4x. Obviously alot depends on the player doing the raising, but do you guys regularly fold these hands? Regularly make the call? Or just play each situation by ear? (How your feeling, your read on the guy, etc.) Obviously if everyone folds to me and I'm the only other guy who'd be in the pot, I generally fold. But if there's at least 2-3 other people who call, I generally want to see the flop. I wish I could see my stats so I could know what my +/- money is in these situations.
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| | | 62 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 15:27
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Give me a couple days on the spreadsheet. It is basically there...I just need to make updates for 2006 and make some updates to the statistics section.
My spreadsheet just tracks time and earnings. Statistics like: hourly rate, win %, monthly averages...
I do not really track flop %, showdowns, etc... Prima tracks that stuff and I look at it occasionally, used to pay attention more when I first started playing but now I feel like I play so many situations and different games (vs 1-9 other players) that the stats become sort of muddled by the varied situations. I have thought about trying pokertracker. I would be very interested at looking at what pokerttracker would say about my longterm play but at this point I am not willing to take the time that it takes to import the data daily.
I think daily stats are nearly worthless, you really need minimally 2-3 thousand hands before you are seeing a minimum meaningful sample. Really I would want to see the stats after like 100K hands or more.
The only stat that really means anything to me in the longterm is the bottom line profit so I focus on that result.
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| | | 63 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 15:48
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R9...(NL) The most important things to me in that situation is my opponents stack size (at least ~25x the bet) and my read on the opponent...specifically how aggressive he might play something like 2 pair, TPTK, or an overpair...willing to put all of his money in? If there were a few callers with largish stacks I would be more apt to call. If the BB or I had a smaller stack I would fold...or if the table is very tight I would probably fold...in fact if the table is playing very tight I would probably not even limp with that hand in early position.
I would figure my QJ is an underdog going in and would be hoping to flop something big...straight...two pair...trips. If I only flop a pair I would know I will lay it down to any aggressive betting...I might take a stab at the pot but would back off quickly. Against the BB you have position so that is a positive. You will lose a lot of small pots with that hand but hopefully will win 1 every 20 or so that will double you up...plus you should win a couple small pots bluffing or with a pair.
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| | | 64 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 20:19
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Ok...what do you guys do here? Background: I've play near 500 hands today and had Pocket As 4 times before. Raised to 12 or 16 all times and never got a call. This time I limped...Do you make the river call? I felt bad about it but still made the call just because the sheer beauty of my hand...ARGH...stupid me...
PokerStars Game #3503165755: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/01/01 - 20:14:01 (ET)
Table 'Silvretta' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Nicolai ($384 in chips)
Seat 2: dinael ($148.35 in chips)
Seat 3: iMTHaDoCTA ($536.25 in chips)
Seat 5: fumbo420 ($371 in chips)
Seat 6: $DW12$ ($240.65 in chips)
Seat 7: PWhinney ($109.10 in chips)
Seat 8: AllTheWay33 ($483.65 in chips)
Seat 9: roachpole ($425.70 in chips)
roachpole: posts small blind $2
Nicolai: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to $DW12$ [Ad As]
dinael: folds
iMTHaDoCTA: folds
fumbo420: folds
$DW12$: calls $4
PWhinney: folds
AllTheWay33: folds
roachpole: calls $2
Nicolai: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Qs Ah]
roachpole: checks
Nicolai: checks
$DW12$: checks
*** TURN *** [8d Qs Ah] [4s]
roachpole: checks
Nicolai: checks
mackadooo joins the table at seat #4
$DW12$: bets $8
roachpole: calls $8
Nicolai: folds
*** RIVER *** [8d Qs Ah 4s] [Jc]
roachpole: bets $20
$DW12$: raises $48 to $68
roachpole: raises $345.70 to $413.70 and is all-in
$DW12$ said, "2 hands beat me..."
$DW12$: calls $160.65 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roachpole: shows [Ts Ks] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
$DW12$: mucks hand
roachpole collected $482.30 from pot
$DW12$ said, "that was one of them"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $485.30 | Rake $3
Board [8d Qs Ah 4s Jc]
Seat 1: Nicolai (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: dinael folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: iMTHaDoCTA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: fumbo420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: $DW12$ mucked [Ad As]
Seat 7: PWhinney folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: AllTheWay33 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: roachpole (small blind) showed [Ts Ks] and won ($482.30) with a straight, Ten to Ace
:-(
Still up today though! ;-)
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| | | 65 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 20:38
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you called a $345 raise on a pot that was $68?
Yeah, that was an awful call. I wouldn't make that call for anything near $345.
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| | | 66 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 20:50
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Well I didn't actually call that much...but your conclusion is still correct. I know it was the awful play and should be irate and on tilt because of my stupid plan BUT i am still up on the day which keeps me sane.
Anyway, the new PokerStars FPP store is amazing. I doubt anyone on here could acheive this feat, but for 3 million FPPs you get a porsche! Many other very cool prizes...
THK
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| | | 67 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 21:34
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#64 I will limp with AA from early position sometimes but most times I am going to make at least a standard opening raise.
On the flop with you having position most times I would come in with a pot size bet...because it really does not say anything about the strength of your hand because most people expect a bet out of the player with position...many times you might get a reraise back at you if anyone caught anything.
On the turn you have to bet at least the pot or more. If someone is going to chase you down make them pay for the pleasure. You made it very cheap for someone to get lucky and take all of your money.
You kind of let the K-10 follow my advice in post #63 to the letter except he did't even have to pay to see the flop.
With position I rarely play sets or below slow just because they are always vulnerable. A set is generally ahead when you flop it but if you let people draw cheap sometimes they will catch their draw and get all of your money. I would rather make them pay to try and then if they do call bigger bets they are making a mistake that you will profit from in the longrun.
So you were calling $160 on the river to win $320...you probably have to make the call with set aces but you should have never got in that position.
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| | | 68 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 21:51
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I'll usually slowplay a set if the flop is raggedy, but if the turn brings a straight or flush draw, I'll bet it strong.
Today I got pretty fortunate, I had JJ on a J42 board (2 hearts) my 1/2 pot bet from the button (looked like a steal attempt, just what I wanted) got called quickly (put the guy on a draw) and the turn brought the 4 hearts. Gave me the boat, and I was hoping gave him a flush. He had position, so I made a 'weak' 1/4 pot bet to sucker him in. He went all in for about 150$, sweet. He had the nut flush of course. :)
I'll bet any strong nut-like hand for the pot if there is 4 or more river outs that can ruin my hand. Its amazing how many people will call it anyway, hoping to catch their lucky card. Sometimes it happens, but what a payoff when they don't catch. Especially when they try to salvage the situation by bluffing all-in on the river. Also amazing how many people that think that'll work...
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| | | 69 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 22:17
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I am still amazed with the steps PokerStars has made with the new levels and FPP uses.
Also, thepokerdb (for those that use it) will soon be a premier tool to scout opponents in tournament settings.
THK
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| | | 70 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 23:23
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This was a decent one.....figured the bet on the river was an ace only and not the 9. I raised the flop with the 2 spades on the board, and the guy to my right had the ace-high flush draw.
***** Hand History for Game 3299837590 *****
3/6 Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) - Sun Jan 01 23:13:17 EST 2006
Table Bad Beat Jackpot 1106348 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: RamblinBum ( $219.50)
Seat 2: Sirius68 ( $198.34)
Seat 3: wrigsjc ( $53)
Seat 4: pumasee ( $47)
Seat 5: dsmith3622 ( $410)
Seat 6: manopao ( $81.75)
Seat 7: bigox555 ( $111.25)
Seat 8: ledsad ( $123)
Seat 9: beanheads123 ( $42.50)
Seat 10: wonst1 ( $97)
ledsad posts small blind (1)
beanheads123 posts big blind (3)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sirius68 [ Ah, Ac ]
wonst1 folds.
RamblinBum calls (3)
Sirius68 raises (6) to 6
wrigsjc folds.
pumasee calls (6)
dsmith3622 folds.
manopao calls (6)
bigox555 folds.
ledsad folds.
beanheads123 calls (3)
RamblinBum calls (3)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ad, 9s, 2s ]
beanheads123 bets (3)
RamblinBum calls (3)
Sirius68 raises (6) to 6
pumasee folds.
manopao folds.
beanheads123 calls (3)
RamblinBum calls (3)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
beanheads123 checks.
RamblinBum checks.
Sirius68 bets (6)
beanheads123 calls (6)
RamblinBum calls (6)
** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]
beanheads123 checks.
RamblinBum bets (6)
Sirius68 raises (12) to 12
beanheads123 folds.
RamblinBum calls (6)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $87.50 | Rake: $3 | Jackpot Contribution: $0.50
Board: [ Ad 9s 2s 9c 9d ]
RamblinBum balance $189.50, lost $30 [ As 5s ] [ a full house, Nines full of aces -- As,Ad,9s,9c,9d ]
Sirius68 balance $255.84, bet $30, collected $87.50, net +$57.50 [ Ah Ac ] [ a full house, Aces full of nines -- Ah,Ac,Ad,9s,9c,9d ]
wrigsjc balance $53, didn't bet (folded)
pumasee balance $41, lost $6 (folded)
dsmith3622 balance $410, didn't bet (folded)
manopao balance $75.75, lost $6 (folded)
bigox555 balance $111.25, didn't bet (folded)
ledsad balance $122, lost $1 (folded)
beanheads123 balance $24.50, lost $18 (folded)
wonst1 balance $97, didn't bet (folded)
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| | | 71 | Vilica
Leader
ID: 01771653
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 23:25
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I'm bored and I just came off a session so I thought I'd toss out this hand for discussion.
Background: 2/5NL game in AC, table seemed to be both loose and capable, no real big fish, but there were lots of opportunities to make money. My friend had about 300, which isn't large but was one of the smaller stacks. Hand started off with utg+1 raising to 15, mp1 calls, folds to my friend in the sb with Q9o and he calls as well. Stack sizes for utg+1 is about 175, and mp1 250 or so.
Flop Q98 rainbow, my friend checks, pfr leads 35, and mp1 doubles to 70. MP1 is a lady, but tendancy to be aggro and has history of minraises on the flop. My initial read as an observer was a ten, straight draw. I see 2 lines here that one can take, and it's basically 50/50 between them. What are some other thoughts, particularly on the two lines obvious now?
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| | | 72 | Uptown Bombers
ID: 35616416
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 23:43
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re:71
I'm a poker novice, but the way I see it with that hand, it's either all-in or fold. I'll leaning strongly to the fold because of the bet and raise. It could be a draw, but J10 is a fairly popular hand to start. Could also be someone flopped a set. I am fairly cautious when I play, so I would fold. Too many hands have you beat. Two pair isn't all that strong to me with that flop. I'd prefer to fold this one and wait until they bet and raise again when I have the monster. Had there only been one bet to me, I would raise to see where I stand in the hand.
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| | | 73 | Vilica
Leader
ID: 01771653
Sun, Jan 01, 2006, 23:52
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Wow my brain is fried I've been thinking about the hand for 2 days and I never occurred to think that Q98 is not the one-gap straight I'm describing. The flop was in fact QJ9 rainbow, giving my friend top and bottom pair. Thus you now have the one-gapper and not a 2-gapper.
Also, the lines I'm describing are not folding in any case (we both felt we had the best hand). The first one is flat-call the flop, and move in on any non-K 8 or J turn, and the second is to just move in now.
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| | | 74 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 00:19
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Villica...If you felt you had the best hand I would reraise all-in...let the draws pay to beat you. Calling the 70 bet is getting close to committing you anyway...might as well push and get some fold equity (likely will get at least one person to fold)...make the draws pay...plus you are out of position so you are not going to get another chance to show real strength.
But...I would not be so sure I was good there. A lot of hands out there beat you. Personally I fold that Q9 preflop...that is a real trouble hand when you flop 2 pair...into a straight board.
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| | | 75 | Uptown Bombers
ID: 35616416
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 00:40
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In that case, then I would push on the flop. If you are looking to avoid K,8,J, that's presumably 10 outs, which means you are about 60% to win the hand. If you call, I think the first player calls as well, unless it was a complete bluff. I'd like to push out the draws now and take the pot if I can.
The more that I think of it though, even if they are only on the draw, if you put them all in, the pot odds for either of them with only 8 outs would probably dictate a call no?
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| | | 76 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 02:14
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A little background. This same scrub went all in earlier with an open ended straight draw when I had AA and sucked out for a huge pot. I berated him and we went back in forth for about 10 minutes until this...
PokerStars Game #3507190811: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/01/02 - 02:11:05 (ET)
Table 'Eurybates V' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: $DW12$ ($118.25 in chips)
Seat 2: willybeer22 ($1062.70 in chips)
Seat 3: topdawggie ($148.65 in chips)
Seat 4: millhouse32 ($145.40 in chips)
Seat 6: BOOKA ($709.75 in chips)
BOOKA: posts small blind $2
$DW12$: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to $DW12$ [Ah Ac]
willybeer22: folds
topdawggie: folds
millhouse32: raises $8 to $12
BOOKA: folds
$DW12$: raises $20 to $32
millhouse32: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [3c Jd 8h]
$DW12$: bets $26
millhouse32: raises $82 to $108
$DW12$: calls $60.25 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [3c Jd 8h] [Js]
*** RIVER *** [3c Jd 8h Js] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
$DW12$: shows [Ah Ac] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
millhouse32: shows [Jh 6d] (three of a kind, Jacks)
millhouse32 collected $236.50 from pot
millhouse32 said, "boom"
$DW12$ said, "OMG, lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $238.50 | Rake $2
Board [3c Jd 8h Js 5d]
Seat 1: $DW12$ (big blind) showed [Ah Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 2: willybeer22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: topdawggie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: millhouse32 (button) showed [Jh 6d] and won ($236.50) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: BOOKA (small blind) folded before Flop
What am I suppossed to do? What luck...unreal
THK
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| | | 77 | Vilica
Leader
ID: 01771653
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 02:57
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Chicago and Uptown,
That's exactly why I'm rethinking the push on the flop because a draw gets to see both cards, and their equity goes up correspondingly. However, if you flat-call the flop, you still have 200 behind. 50+35+70+70=205, plus whatever the pfr does. If mp1 has like 200 behind, and the turn bricks, and you move in first, they'll have to call a full pot bet with 1 to come with most likely just a straight draw. I mean sometimes the turn fills something and you check-fold, but somebody with JT or QT has a pretty easy call on that flop, and a much harder one on the turn with only one to come.
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| | | 78 | Vilica
Leader
ID: 01771653
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 02:58
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Also THK, just keep playing AA like that. If you got your money in with them drawing to five outs twice everytime, you'd be rich in no time flat.
Variance sucks, but it happens and you just soldier on.
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| | | 79 | weykool
ID: 34932210
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 05:16
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Just finished a $109 MT tournament and finished 2nd out of 686 players.
The payout was $10,590.
Looks like I will finally have the funds to make a Guru patron donation.
I won a 7 card ($5 or $10) tourn and took away $600 and finished 7th in another tournamnet for $1400.
Other than that I've not had too much luck (probably has to do more with lack of skill)
Has anyone else won big money like that?
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| | | 80 | THK on vaca
ID: 2510332316
Mon, Jan 02, 2006, 13:37
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Very nice finish weykool. My top placing is 4th in a cheaper tournament and it paid out just 1/10th of your finish. Congrats on your big win!
THK
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| | | 81 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 09:44
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Nice payday...personally never won that much in a tournament. Do not play many tournaments though. I have won 2 500+ player tournaments and one ~250 player tournament...but much smaller paydays as they were freerolls or low buy-ins.
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| | | 82 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 09:47
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I've finished 1st in two small limit tournies and top ten in a bunch more, (limit tournies are a cakewalk) but never had a payout over $1,000, let alone $10,000! Very nice weykool.
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| | | 83 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 11:39
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weykool, that finish is way cool! Congrats.
Played 2 MTT's this weekend: 20th in a 400 man tourney, 120th in a 1100 man tourney. "Cashed" both times, but not big dollars compared to buy in. Tripled up in the 400 man tourney and barely covered the buy-in on the other one.
Best finish was 7th in a 108-man live tourney that netted $700.00.
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| | | 84 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 14:02
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Nice job, Weykool!
Lost 3 tourneys yesterday all with AQ. First one AcQc all-in gets called by KcJc (looked very pretty when we turned them both over). Of course he catches a K on the flop and another on the turn. I was just trying to steal and get back into the tourney, as I had already been crippled when my TPTK got nailed by a straight draw on the river. I was SB, early in the tourney, and 5 hands had called 3X BB.
Second, raised 4X BB (about a fifth of my stack) on the button as a blind steal (1 limper in front of me) AdQd. AK re-raises all-in out of the BB. I think I should have folded, but I called as I was an alternate who just sat down and hadn't gotten a bead on the table yet. Only hand I played in that tourney.
Finally I get to play some hands. I'm big stack, 5 folks are left at the final table, and they pay top 3 ($150, 300, 450). My buddy is barely alive, though there are two smaller stacks. I resist calling him twice with decent hands that would have won, end up getting hammered 3 times taking one of the other small stacks all-in with:
-pocket-jacks (run into KK),
-when I hit my set of sixes (he river-rivers a flush), and
-when my buddy calls my semi-bluff K-9 all-in (bastard).
At this point I can't even pay the now huge blinds, and go all-in AQ, and get beat by 74 when she hits the straight. Fortunately my buddy won, and got to buy me a couple beers to drown my sorrows. If I had gotten crappy cards, I would have easily ended up in the money. Stupid rationalization alert: It was a really fun, jovial table, and $35 was a bargain for the 2 hours of entertainment.
Not a good way to begin my New Years Resolution to keep track of my wi... er, losings.
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| | | 85 | weykool
ID: 34932210
Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 22:57
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Thanks for all the positive feedback.
I debated in making the post because I didnt want to sound like I was bragging.
Okay...so maybe I was a little... but I was just understandably happy about it I just needed to share.
A couple of observations.
I'm still learning and I have a long ways to go.
I'm hoping it isnt a case of catching lightning in a bottle and never seeing a final table again.
It seems to me that anyone who wins a tournament does so in spite of making a bad play or two.
In my case the turning point was when I called an all-in when I shouldnt have.
I had raised 2X the BB preflop and the BB called.
He had been making several all-in bets with what I sensed were marginal hands (I think he tried to bluff me out of a pot earlier that I had called and my hand held up). At the time the chip leader had 45K and I had 37K and the BB had 35K.
I had KJ os and the flop came xK5. He went all in and I called. I hit a J on the river and beat out his K-5.
If I lose that hand I'm on life support and almost zero chance.
Every other tournament where I have done well it seems like I have made similar plays and come out ok.
Of course I have also made many similar plays and been given my exit papers.
I just think that it is impossible to play a whole tournament absolutly perfect.
I just trying to limit my bad plays as much as possible.
Patience, Patience, Patience.
I enjoy all the strategy discussions and try to learn as much as I can from the better players on here.
Keep the posts coming.
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| | | 86 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 15:27
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2 ridiculous losses last night on FTP and I lost 230 dollars. With that I am pulling the rest of my money out of there and will be looking for a new site.
.50/1.00 NL table
Very loose table I get
Pocket aces jn the big blind a guy in 1st position raises 2.50, 2 callers and then a raise to 7.50, 2 folds and then an all in 25.50 from the the button, a call from small blind. I go all in for 110 into about a 60 dollar pot. I get 2 callers 1 guy had more money then me, he turns over 34 of spades, 1 guy has KQ of diamonds, 1 had A9 of clubs and 1 had pocket 3s.
Flop is A 3 9 rainbow, 1 spade.
turn 8S
and River 4S
he hit his flush calling 110 dollar raise with 34.
That pissed me off, but the one that burned me the most was
I get kq of hearts and call the 2 dollar raise, 4 players
Flop kq3 rainbow ( cant remember the suits) Bet of 12 to me, I call other 2 fold. Turn 9, no flush draw, bet of 26 to me, I raise to 52 he puts me all in for 130 I call, he turns over 3 9 for 2 pair.
River was a 9 and he hit his full house. 2 hands in a row I am burn when I was dominating. That isnt supposed to happen.
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| | | 87 | swami
ID: 46851118
Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 22:15
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Help! Did I play this one wrong at all?
*********** # 49 **************
PokerStars Game #3545115620: Tournament #17590550, Hold'em No Limit -
Level IV (50/100) - 2006/01/05 - 21:43:57 (ET)
Table '17590550 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: Snaillik9 (2060 in chips)
Seat 4: genxpunk (3215 in chips)
Seat 7: wtmaniak (3005 in chips)
Seat 8: DaSwam (3670 in chips)
Seat 9: ken7777 (1550 in chips)
wtmaniak: posts small blind 50
DaSwam: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [4s 7h]
ken7777: folds
Snaillik9: calls 100
genxpunk: folds
wtmaniak: calls 50
DaSwam: checks
*** FLOP *** [4c 8h 7s]
wtmaniak: checks
DaSwam: checks
Snaillik9: bets 200
wtmaniak: folds
DaSwam: raises 300 to 500
Snaillik9: calls 300
*** TURN *** [4c 8h 7s] [7d]
DaSwam: checks
Snaillik9: bets 500
DaSwam: raises 2570 to 3070 and is all-in
Snaillik9: calls 960 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [4c 8h 7s 7d] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DaSwam: shows [4s 7h] (a full house, Sevens full of Eights)
Snaillik9: shows [8s Ac] (a full house, Eights full of Sevens)
Snaillik9 collected 4220 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4220 | Rake 0
Board [4c 8h 7s 7d 8d]
Seat 2: Snaillik9 showed [8s Ac] and won (4220) with a full house,
Eights full of Sevens
Seat 4: genxpunk (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: wtmaniak (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: DaSwam (big blind) showed [4s 7h] and lost with a full house,
Sevens full of Eights
Seat 9: ken7777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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| | | 88 | tommyd7878
ID: 16728922
Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 23:30
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You know the answer to that.
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| | | 89 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 02:55
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Help! Did I play this one wrong at all?
Did you make a bad read? Did you get all of his money in the pot when he had the worst hand? No and yes. He fell in love with top pair in a limped pot and barring a miracle would have paid for it after you hit your big blind special. He hit his miracle on the river. Your objective after hitting the boat on the river was to get all of his money into the middle of the table, which you did. Just a bad beat. He had 2 outs.
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| | | 90 | swami
ID: 75542011
Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 08:47
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Only thing I could think of was that I didn't push harder after the flop. I never really recovered from that hand and wound up 5th out of the 9 that started.
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| | | 91 | tommyd
ID: 46928248
Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 10:05
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Well you put a pot sized reraise in there on the flop which should have told him that you had a hand. I guess i can see his call with top pair and top kicker after that the hand was played fine. The question is if you don't fill up on the turn how much do you bet bottom two pair is a hand you want to play quickly although doesn't matter what you bet I guess he's calling here.
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| | | 92 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 11:19
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Just got unlucky...it happens.
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| | | 93 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 12:02
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Your objective after hitting the boat on the river ...
On the turn, rather.
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| | | 94 | wolfer
Sustainer
ID: 18639422
Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 22:47
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I do not know if anyone else saw this yet, but this years National Heads-Up tournament has a twist of sorts. The 64th entrant will be an online qualifier. Details
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| | | 95 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 02:28
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I hate poker sometimes:
> Game # 642,212,794 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> pisak84 raised for $14
> Roma0 folded
> MactanTRS raised for $24
> gabbar went all-in for $119.70
> a1exjet folded
> rudecrue folded
> pisak84 folded
> MactanTRS called for $95.70
> MactanTRS shows (K K)
> Gabbar shows (K J) offsuit
> Dealing the Flop(10 K Q)
> Dealing the turn(A)
> Dealing the river(4)
> gabbar wins $256.40 with a Straight, Ace high
> MactanTRS> mf
especially hurts after a multitude of other beats and when I see the cards thinking...ok I got this one...get me close to even
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| | | 96 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 02:35
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ugggh what a screwed night...going to bed...taking a few days off...just lost another big pot...good play by the other player...set a good trap and I fell right into it...probably partly because I am half tilted but probably had me regardless...left the table so no history but slow play pocket aces and I had JJ...low flop and the rest was history...
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| | | 97 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 13:57
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Ouch. Why would you push with KJ when two folks have already raised?
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| | | 98 | weykool
ID: 56050913
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 14:29
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I think Chicago had the KK vs the KJ.
Something similar happened to me last night had raised 2x the BB with decent hands (KJ and KQ) and the BB had come over the top with All-in bets.
I of course folded both times.
So I got AK and just raised 2X BB and the same guy goes all in and I call.
I'm AK vs A10 the board ends up with 2 pair and we split the pot.
Was so pissed I knew he was over betting his hand and I suckered him into a bad bet and ended up with jack.
Two hands later he hits a flush on the river and my JJ gets loses.
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| | | 99 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 14:41
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Yeah, I know. Just commiserating, saying the guy was an idiot.
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| | | 100 | tommyd
ID: 52021014
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 15:03
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I had KK vs JJ all in after the flop for a 240$ pot only to see the board go runner runner straight and split. ALthough later on last night went all in for about the same amount with a set on the flop and the other guy had flopped a straight but I rivered the boat so all is good.
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| | | 101 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 51828221
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 17:52
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KK vs KJ preflop = 90.53% win 8.23% lose 1.24% tie
Don't think you can do much better than that preflop.
So 9 out of 10 times I should have won…boohoo.
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| | | 102 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 21:06
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I spent 4 hours tonight making a 200$ profit, and lost it all on this hand:
QQ on the button, everyone folds to me and the blinds. I still bet out 8x the BB (8$), no free rides from me. The small blind calls quickly. Flop comes 4Q4. He checks to me, I check back. Turn is a 7, putting 3 suits on the board. He checks to me again, so I decide to make it look like I'm making a play at the pot. I bet 4$, a ridiculously low amount for a $17+ pot. He moves all in for ~150$ with a ridiculous overbet. I call faster then you can say Money!
On this site we don't flip until the river is shown, even if everyone in the hand is all-in. So the river comes, A. The second I see it I know I'm beat.
Sometimes, this stupid game... :(
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| | | 103 | swami
ID: 46851118
Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 22:33
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I feel ya R9. I've been drawn out on more lately than I care to think about. Maybe I should play Bridge...
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| | | 104 | Hans Gruber
ID: 05131515
Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 08:47
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Here's a funny one I played yesterday:
PokerStars Game #3594685388: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/01/10 - 17:28:24 (ET)
Table 'Canopus III' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Steve McNair ($47 in chips)
Seat 2: starcop ($12.60 in chips)
Seat 3: MGM_GUY ($15.85 in chips)
Seat 4: Bison41 ($21.90 in chips)
Seat 5: MrOrangeNeon ($42.85 in chips)
Seat 6: jseid22 ($20.20 in chips)
Seat 7: carlms ($30.15 in chips)
Seat 8: pdk01 ($46.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Kringle66 ($118.45 in chips)
Steve McNair: posts small blind $0.25
starcop: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Steve McNair [As Ad]
MGM_GUY: folds
Bison41: calls $0.50
MrOrangeNeon: calls $0.50
jseid22: folds
carlms: folds
pdk01: folds
Kringle66: folds
Steve McNair: raises $2 to $2.50
starcop: folds
Bison41: raises $19.40 to $21.90 and is all-in
MrOrangeNeon: folds
Steve McNair: calls $19.40
*** FLOP *** [Tc Jc Td]
*** TURN *** [Tc Jc Td] [5d]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Jc Td 5d] [Kc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Steve McNair: shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
Bison41: shows [Ac Qc] (a Royal Flush)
Bison41 collected $42.60 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $44.80 | Rake $2.20
Board [Tc Jc Td 5d Kc]
Seat 1: Steve McNair (small blind) showed [As Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 2: starcop (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: MGM_GUY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Bison41 showed [Ac Qc] and won ($42.60) with a Royal Flush
Seat 5: MrOrangeNeon folded before Flop
Seat 6: jseid22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: carlms folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: pdk01 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Kringle66 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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| | | 105 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 421042110
Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 09:49
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Hans...exact same beat I sufferred in post #95 cept he did ya one better getting a royal flush on you...
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| | | 106 | Hans Gruber
ID: 05131515
Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 12:58
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It really is a cruel game sometimes. You can have days where you play without any major mistakes, and still lose big. I lost $100 (2 buy-ins) in an hour yesterday. Had two set-over-sets, and also the hand above. Just gotta keep plugging away...
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| | | 107 | swami
ID: 60391022
Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 20:36
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Does anyone have any good advice for how to play heads up correctly? Obviously you must loosen up, and I feel it is more about reading your opponent as opposed to playing your cards.
Are there any good resources out there on how to play correctly once you reach this stage of a tournament?
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| | | 108 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 00:14
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Heads up...I have never read any literature on heads-up play...but obviously it is more of a mental game and playing off of your opponent. Probably one of the best ways to improve is to simply play a lot of heads-up against different opponents. A lot of the sites have heads-up single table tournaments for very low buy-ins.
Personally I try to play off of my opponent...if they are playing excessively tight I will pretty much raise every hand and try and steal every pot possible and if they play back at me I will get out of their way. I look for the least I can raise to get them to fold.
If someone is playing excessively loose...I will mix it up more and still play aggressive but tighten up with weaker hands but be willing to push marginal situations more.
If I get in against someone who is using all-ins as a weapon too often I will sit back and wait for the opportunity to trap...I will still raise aggressively early but then show weakness and give the player the idea that whenever I show weakness they can overbet the pot and steal it...until they fall into a trap.
Use position to your advantage...especially against timid players and people that will call anything preflop but quickly release their hands if they miss. Release some weak hands preflop when you are out of position and up against someone who is constantly raising with position...don't even call the blind.
A good player can probably play heads-up without even looking at their cards. You just put the other player on patterns.
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| | | 109 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 02:16
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Also depends on the blinds vs chips in play...if the blinds are very high I would be willing to just push with two good starting cards.
I think the heads-up tournaments are a great place to practice. Or even play money headsup is good practice...if you can find a person on the other end that takes it somewhat seriously.
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| | | 110 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 09:28
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My only advice for heads up is either raise from the small blind or limp. Giving up the button by folding your crummy hands without even trying to limp in is a sure fire way to give your opponent the edge.
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| | | 111 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 14:02
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Heads up is definitely one of my weaker aspects. When I'm at a ring table I usually leave if the table drops to 4 or 5 people, so playing even vs. 2 people is a rarity for me. I don't play SnG's anymore, ever since most of the fish left that scene. I actually think my last heads up was over 6 months ago, in a limit tourney final table. I lost of course. ;)
Given how 1st place is usually significantly more then 2nd in any tourney, I should probably work on improving my heads-up play. My main tactic is to try and force the issue by raising a ton, and being willing to go all-in with any ace. This of course sets me up for a trap, and is basically saying 'ok, lets flip or race 60/40 for the money'. Probably not the best idea, although most of my heads up battles have happened when the blinds were huge, and thus 'creative' moves were pretty tough.
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| | | 112 | swami
ID: 46851118
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 11:54
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Well, I got into a heads up final of a 45 player SnG. I used the advice here, and lost the tourney on the river. We went back and forth for a few hands. Thanks for the advice, on to the next tourney!
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| | | 113 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 20:21
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anyone on Full Tilt tonight?
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| | | 114 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:45
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Let me walk through this with you guys, to see how badly I screwed this up.
6 players left of 45.
Top 5 guys get paid: 565,365,210,140,70.
Blinds are 4000, 8000, I'm big blind, and have 29K beyond my blind.
UTG raises 20K (of 40K),
big stack folds,
medium stack all in for 23K,
small stack pushes for 10K,
small stack pushes 5K in the SB.
You have crap (106s). What do you do?
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| | | 115 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:52
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Easy fold.
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| | | 116 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:57
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fold...why is that a question? Someone will get eliminated in that hand and you are in the money and still have an ok stack.
Book that supposedly has a very good headsup section:
Harrington on Holdem 2
Have heard a lot of great things about Harringtons books...probably will be the next ones I read...
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| | | 117 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 02:00
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You are right, I'm sure, but I'm in the money regardless. We already have 3 all-ins with smaller stacks than me, so the worst I can do is 4th.
If I call, I'm betting 15K into to close to an 80K pot. If I fold, I'm small stack to the big stack and the winner (who turned out to be the mediums stack).
As it was, because the blinds were so huge, everyone was playing crap. I caught a 6 on the flop for middle pair, and a spade. At that point I'm all-in. I had them until the river, when medium stack caught his jack. So I get 4th.
It seemed at the time that I would rather be in this pot, even with danky, and give myself a chance to come out big stack, than sit it out, and likely be significant short stack to 2-3 others and likely end up 4th anyway.
If I'd folded, I might have given myself a good shot at 3rd, but I would have been a signficant longshot at 1st, my main goal.
Harriman's sitting on my shelf, but I play so few tourney's that I'm still reading limit books. I'll move to Harriman soon... but not soon enough, I guess! ;)
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| | | 118 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 08:50
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You do make a valid point for calling.
With the blinds that large you would have only gotten 2 or 3 hands, depending on who won the current hand, left to get your money in. I think one of the keys is knowing what other people had been playing. If the short stacks were going all-in with crap hoping to steal a pot and make it past you then it isn't as easy to say "FOLD"
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| | | 119 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 09:28
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Why not fold and be left with enough to have some fold equity when you push? I'd much rather blindly push any 2 cards next hand than be involved in a 4 way pot in which I'm going to be a significant underdog to win the pot.
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| | | 120 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 09:49
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If you make the call and win you have a chance at fighting for 1st. If you don't make the call and 2 players are knocked out you are looking at a couple of all-ins just to move up a position. If only 1 player is knocked out you are probably headed to 5th place looking at having to double up several times to move up a position.
Don't forget that in the next 10 hands you are going to have to make the blinds twice and possibly not have enough left for the 3rd round of blinds.
I guess part of the decision is if you want to be a grinder or you want to be a gambler and take what money is being offered.
A very distant possability is 5th and 6th place tie and now have larger chip stacks.
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| | | 121 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 11:22
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You are probably right, Beastie. The better move was to likely to limp along and hope for a few big hands in the next 10 (about all I had left).
As it was, top three chopped, and I had a reasonable chance to be one of those 3, even short stack. If I'd known that they were leaning that way, I may have played it differently. Of course, top 3 were all relatively even (around 60-90K). Who knows if they would have played it out with a short stack. There was some contention about chopping, and two had to pressure the 3rd to do it.
I generally would want to play it out, but if offered an even chop short stack, I would have to take it.
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| | | 122 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 19:20
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I hope its not considered spamming. Just posting it cause I found it a couple of days ago and it actually does work.
You just signup at this site and a day or two later you really do get a free $50 at Partypoker.com
Only catch is you can't have already had a Partypoker account.
Register at this site and click on "Join now" and fill in the info. Then go to Partypoker and download their software and register for that site. When you download their software and open it click on Cashier and (I think) deposit and fill in your mailing info and such. (No real deposit required.) Go back to the original site and put your Partypoker username in so they know where to send the cash.
This isn't a scam and isn't my site. Just a good deal I found. Apologies if this is considered spamming but its legit for anybody who wants a free $50 to get started.
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| | | 123 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 22:45
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$50...that could be enough to fund a bankroll if you play it right (or get lucky I suppose)...my first and only deposit was $50.
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| | | 124 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 22:50
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If anyone is interested in a poker tracking spreadsheet email me...finished cleaning it up and added all kinds of new stats and graphs...pretty happy with it. Mainly tracks session profit/loss and all of the stats that can be extrapolated from those figures. Just finished making a blank copy...left a few figures in it for examples. If you play seriously probably very important to make an honest record of your play...
After you complete a session of playing the only thing that needs to be updated is #hours played and end account value/bankroll. Takes less than a minute.
Would probably help if you have at least a little knowledge of excel...simple formula and how to drag formuls and such.
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| | | 125 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 00:28
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Email sent. I've put together a basic one myself:
date, limit, card room, profit/loss, time of day played, amount of time played, and notes on type of player/outing. Number of players and finish for tourneys.
But no graphs! That would be cool.
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| | | 126 | kev
Donor
ID: 043111845
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 00:31
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Hey guys- looking for advice.
I have never ventured into real money online play. I play at the casino once to twice a week, and end up usually making a profit for the week.
I tend to be an aggresive player. I tend to bluff though if in position- is online usually full of callers, or is it pretty easy to get a read on players the same as in a casino? I tend to get good reads on players being tight/loose live, and just wonder if it is harder online. Most people with free money are obviously loose, so I am just wondering if anyone has good advice for me on what sort of tables to start on and whatnot. Thanks.
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| | | 127 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 07:49
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I joined the party poker site last night using the info from Farn. It worked and I got the money in about an hour.
about the 3rd or 4th hand I was dealt pocket Kings raised 5 dollars preflop 2 callers.
Flop was 8 10 4 rainbow I went all in for 25 more, 1 fold 1 caller. The caller called with 23 of diamonds and caught runner runner 22 to hit trips. I said how do you call that for 25 dollars and he said "hey dork, they were suited connectors" Needless to say I was quite pissed off. I did however stick with the table figuring sooner or later this strategy will burn him and finally it did. I ended up winning about 33 dollars on top of my original 50.
Thanks for the info Farn.
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| | | 128 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 09:31
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Everyone else who requested the spreadsheet...I will send it this evening when I get home from work...
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| | | 129 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 11:12
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Has anyone gotten into Omaha? I started playing about 2 weeks ago, and it's going well. It seems like a lot of people go play with little to no experience, and it's relatively easy to figure out who is playing draws and when they are hit.
Up until last night, I had been playing for 30-45 minutes per sitting and winning about $20-$25 on average. And last night I had a lot of time and played for two hours trying to really get acclimated to the game, and ended up winning more than $400 on 0.50/1.00 PL. I think I may be dropping hold 'em for a bit, as it seems more beginners play Omaha. I have also noticed how often people go on tilt in Omaha because you will get out drawn due to the nature of the game.
I also capitalized on a four of a kind last night, which netted me $150 ($290+ pot) in one hand. If I had the other guy's hand, though, I would of been in a world of hurt, as he was:
My hand: 5d, 5c, Ad, 6c
I am the big blind. Four people call, I check. Flop is: Kh, 5d, 10h. Since I hit my set, I figure I'll bet the pot ($5) to find those who are playing for the flush. One guy stays. Best card possible comes on the turn: 5h. I check, figure he hit a flush and may bet, but he checks as well. River: 3h. Now I am worried that he didn't hit the flush with four hearts out there, so, I just try and make a little money and bet 1/2 the pot ($10). He comes over the top for the pot ($30), and I come back over the top for $60 more. He goes all in, I call. I show four of a kind. He had pocket kings for a full house.
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| | | 130 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 15:01
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Lowest set in Omaha can be a bankroll breaker. Quite often you'll want to stay in, but it really is quite weak holdings. More often then not you'll get outdrawn by a straight or a flush, and also often enough you'll lose to a higher set or to a higher boat when the board pairs. For example:
You have 8/h/8d/Ad/Kh and the board comes 8s/9s/Kd. Far too many people play this hand like its gold. Besides being a huge dog to any 99 or KK, there are very few turn cards that help you. Any low card means your splitting the pot in H/L, and any high card makes a straight possible. Too, if the turn/river come, say, Js/Jh, you can lose to any KJ or J8. While in Hold'em that isn't as big a worry, in Omaha someone can run into this hand while drawing to something else. On that 89K flop of two suits, say he has As/3s/Kc/Jc. Worth seeing the flop, he stays in for the nut flush draw and ends up with a runner/runner full house. Doesn't happen every hand, but happens more often then you think. And when it does, it'll cost you huge. So I don't put much value on a lower set, and even a medium set is iffy.
In straight Omaha (no High/Low) I won't even play any pocket pair below JJ. Just not worth all that much. Your starting hand was obviously from the BB, but just for arguements sake the only reason I'd play that hand preflop is the nut flush possibility. The 55 and 56s are worth very, very little...
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| | | 131 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 15:17
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That guy should've definitely repotted the flop. Way too many draws. His top set would've been a dog to a hand like, Qh Jh Ad 9d.
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| | | 132 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 17:38
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I play some Omaha but play more H/L O8...I agree the play is terrible at every level. Much of the play is far to loose. I have come to the conclusion I am not a particularly great player at Omaha either...I can beat up on fish but if I get up against someone who I recognize as solid (aggressive) I feel outmatched.
The one time I do like to play Omaha is against novice opponents/home games...it is a good game to play against people who do not understand what it takes to win with in Omaha...it is a good game because usually everyone catches at least a small part of the flop or have some sort of draw to chase. People do not realize that top pair, two pair, sets, low flushes, ass end straights most times are basically worthless.
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| | | 133 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Jan 19, 2006, 01:26
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In Omaha I usually avoid tangling with established players, and just prey on the fish. It also seems like that is the mentality of the other experienced players at the tables as well, as Omaha is a game where bluffing is rare. Unlike Hold'em, if a good player is betting he's probably got the goods and without pot odds I'm folding pretty easily. Since Omaha is all about the nuts, if someone is betting too often odds are very good he's not betting all nut hands, and thus is not a good player... So the average Omaha table is a few solid players preying on the suckers. Fun stuff. :)
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| | | 134 | kev
Donor
ID: 043111845
Fri, Jan 20, 2006, 21:37
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Kind of felt bad for the guy, slow playing his aces, then getting knocked off by them the next hand.
Dealer: Your cards 8c 8s
Dealer: PalmerN calls $0.20
Dealer: chuck20 folds
Dealer: SIGMA1205 folds
Dealer: BPC413 folds
Dealer: wessyde raises $0.95
Dealer: Balabanov folds
Dealer: PalmerN calls $0.85
Dealer: Dealing Flop
8d Jd Ks
Dealer: wessyde checks
Dealer: PalmerN bets $1.20
Dealer: wessyde goes All-in $3.40
Dealer: PalmerN calls $2.20
Dealer: Dealing Turn
8d Jd Ks 5c
Dealer: Dealing River
8d Jd Ks 5c Qc
Dealer: wessyde shows Three of a kind
8c 8s
Dealer: PalmerN shows One Pair
Ac As
Dealer: Winner is wessyde with Three of a kind
8d 8s 8c Qc Ks $8.65
Dealer: Winner is wessyde with Three of a kind
8d 8s 8c Qc Ks $8.65
Dealer: wessyde is the dealer
Dealer: Starting a new hand (#360440530)
Dealer: Starting a new hand (#360440530)
Dealer: Balabanov posts Small Blind $0.10
Dealer: PalmerN posts Big Blind $0.20
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards Ah Ac
Dealer: chuck20 calls $0.20
Dealer: SIGMA1205 folds
Dealer: BPC413 folds
Dealer: wessyde raises $0.50
Dealer: Balabanov calls $0.40
Dealer: PalmerN goes All-in $2.60
Dealer: chuck20 folds
Dealer: wessyde goes All-in $8.15
Dealer: Balabanov folds
Dealer: Dealing Flop
Js 9h 9d
Dealer: Dealing Turn
Js 9h 9d Kc
Dealer: Dealing River
Js 9h 9d Kc Qd
Dealer: wessyde shows Two Pair
Ah Ac
Dealer: Winner is wessyde with Two Pair
9d 9h Kc Ah Ac $11.85
Dealer: Winner is wessyde with Two Pair
9d 9h Kc Ah Ac $11.85
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| | | 135 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 05:27
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Anyone using Pokertracker, care to share your auto-rate rules? I've been using the defaults, but in all honesty I haven't been using the feature all that much. I prefer to make my own reads on people, but before I head to vegas in early Feb I'd like to compare my reads (in player notes) with some actual data to see how right/wrong I am. I'm assuming the default rankings aren't too acurate.
Drop me an e-mail if you can help! Thanks.
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| | | 136 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 10:35
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R9, I'd go over to 2+2 and check out some of the auto rates there. Personally, I don't think auto rates help that much in NL but they are vital in limit.
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| | | 137 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 10:36
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What's auto-rate?
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| | | 138 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:57
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Nice hand last night...2-4 NL 6 handed.
I am in dealer position and get dealt K-10 clubs...gets raised to $12 by an early player plus one caller...I call...both blinds fold. Flop: A clubs - J clubs - 8 clubs
My immediate thoughts are how should I bet to extract money out of these two players? While having that thought...the original raiser goes all-in for $220...the other player calls leaving himself with ~$60...I raise to put him in, has to call with that much money already in. They both show A - J...for two pair...leaving them with 2 outs in the deck...the case A and J. Nothing comes on the turn and river and I pick it up =)
Always a good feeling to be holding the nuts and have a couple players stick all of their money in the pot.
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| | | 139 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:07
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Nice. I suppose the first was trying to knock out a single club, but it $75 would have probably gotten out all but the Kc, wouldn't it?
The caller should have made the heroic laydown, though I probably wouldn't have.
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| | | 140 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:08
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Was an odd night last night...doubled twice more holding or catching nut flushes...what was odd is that typically I have found I do not make much at these higher NL tables when I catch a flush...seems most players are so cautious of the flush that once the board three suits people slow down or are willing to lay down hands...not last night...maybe it was the fact that I was catching good cards most of the night and playing very aggressive...also got caught on one or two big bluffs and also showed one or two bluffs. I know one of the players that paid me off caught me on one of the bluffs earlier.
That hand: end of the night...I am pretty happy...up a good amount...just about to quit and I say WTF one more time through the blinds. In small blind...get dealt A-4 diamonds. $12 raise preflop that I call. Flop: A spades - 2 diamonds - 3 diamonds...gives me a weak pair of aces...nut flush draw...straight draw...BB bets the pot everyone folds...I call. Turn: 4 spades...gives me two pair...BB bets ~1/2 pot...I reraise the pot...he calls....at this point ~$300 in the pot...river the beautiful 7 of diamonds...I do a quick all-in ~320...knew I had bluffed this person the same way earlier (less money at the time) and he had caught me...timer goes nearly all the way down...don't think I will get the call...and here comes the call...he had A-3 for two pair...nice double up before the end of the night =)
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| | | 141 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:12
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In that first hand both those players were donkeys...playing really odd. I really think they were partners...they were doing a lot of small raising between them trapping other players into calling many small raises and then one or the other would get out of the way...was very happy to take them both out. One of the first time I thought I was seeing genuine collusion.
No way he could fold...~$800 pot at that point...and it was only $60 more to him...he probably would have had to call even if he knew he was looking at two outs.
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| | | 142 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:14
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Before you took him all-in, I meant.
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| | | 143 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:14
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Of course, if he knew he had a chop...
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| | | 144 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:18
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You are correct absolutely no reason to raise that much...though that play will work once in awhile...I see people call that bet on a draw all of the time.
Had another hand where I had 44, tried to limp in and the one player at the table that I fear (probably the only player on the entire site I avoid when possible)...raises to $30...a smaller stack calls...and I fold getting out of the way...flop comes 4-4-8. The small stack gets very aggressive and the other player stays in with AK and picks it up with A high. I would have flopped 4 of a kind...would not have gotten much money off the AK as he would have gotten out of my way...I have played 100s of hours with him at tables and he is capable of making the best laydowns I have seen (not that this would have been a hard laydown)...but would have taken the small stacks money.
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| | | 145 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:21
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Of course making that bet with the flush already possible is ridiculous...that bet is reasonable (probably not optimal) when holding a set and two suited cards showing.
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| | | 146 | Seattle Zen
ID: 91152620
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 15:17
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I've been a lurker on these threads for a while now. I enjoy watching the poker games on TV and reading about strategy when I can, but if I play, it is only with friends.
I'm curious to learn about the on-line poker that y'all talk about. From what I can gather, it's rather easy to get involved, just use a credit card and give them money. What I don't understand is how one takes money they have won "home". People have eluded to complicated formulas these sites use regarding pay outs. Could ChicagoTRS, Skank, or some of the other regular on-line players briefly explain how the sites they use pay players who want to cash out?
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| | | 147 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 15:21
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Neteller, Firepay, check via mail, plus other ways. Pretty simple normally takes a few days but other than that it's pretty straightforward. Now the real problem comes when filing your taxes, gambling winnings are a pain in the arse.
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| | | 148 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 15:29
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I ventured online the other day, when my wife wanted to find a free way to play and learn.
Got her a partypoker.NET (.COM is the pay side) acct, and she's been digging it. More social than she thought.
I opened one for myself so I could more easily lurk from my PC and watch how badly she plays. I was also hoping to play along with her, but even on the free side, they wouldn't let me (the same IP, I guess).
I figured I'd check out the link in 122, and see if I could fund a pay acct that way. It worked out; 2 days later they had funded $50 into my acct. Thanks, Farn.
I'm growing it, but because of the small bank roll, I'm having to play .50/1.00, so it's slow going. I am surprised how tight the "beginners" are. Much tighter than most local games around here. Where are the loosest tables on Party Poker?
It is, however, a good learning tool. If I need to refer to starting hands, and whether I should raise or simply call if I've forgotten, I can't do it at a real table, but I can online.
I don't plan on ever putting my cc info or any of my own money online, but hopefully I will never have to if I play and manage my bankroll well.
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| | | 149 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 17:15
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Seattle...payouts are pretty simple...like BMD mentioned. Probably the preferred way of funding an account is to open a free checking account (seperate from your regular checking...just to be safe) and then linking your new account to neteller. Can easily transfer money back and forth. Neteller is kind of like paypal if you are familiar with that. Most credit cards do not work as the US government pressured most of the big credit card companies to block transfers to online gambling sites. But...if your credit card does work that is the easiest way to quickly deposit money.
I would recommend signing up with one of the sites free sections...like partypoker.net or fulltilt.net...and play some games with free money. Not quite the same as real money but will give you an idea of how the interface works.
bili...Party Poker and Pacific Poker are always mentioned as the loosest sites. Probably very true that the local home game is often looser...playing online you quickly learn that seeing every flop and calling down to the river chasing cards is a losing strategy. Personally I only made one deposit and really only made that to take advanatage of a sign up bonus...I already had turned $15 free money into quite a bit more than that before I made my first deposit...so it is possible if you have skillz to build your bankroll from that meager amount...just take your time and build your bankroll slowly and you may be all set.
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| | | 150 | Seattle Zen
ID: 91152620
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 17:35
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Thanks guys
I'm not interested in creating an account, its just after reading so many cryptic posts in these threads that I thought there were some strange shenanigans you had to go through to get your money.
Good luck one and all.
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| | | 151 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 19:19
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Just cashed out $1,000 last night from Pacific for my trip to Vegas in two weeks, so I'm ready to suffer through some cashout curses. :(
As far as time to wait on cashouts, depends on the site. Partypoker has always processed mine within a few hours, the longest being 6 hours. At Pacific, I've only made two cashouts (3 now) and both took over 3 days. I'm not holding my breath on this cashout being done before middle of next week. Add to that the time it takes to go from Neteller to my bank account (another 6-7 days, but that may just be because I'm in Canada) and cashing out can take a while. It always arrives though, so no worries there.
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| | | 152 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 20:50
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Anyone want to play some .25/.50 $50N/L or some $10+$1 SNGs on Noble, Paradise, or Bodog tonight?
I could be convinced to play on Stars, PP, FullTilt or Doyle I suppose....
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| | | 153 | beastiemiked
ID: 481116721
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 22:32
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Whatever happened to our tourney we were talking about?
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| | | 154 | swami
ID: 60391022
Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 01:00
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A painful Aces loss. Can't see that I did anything wrong here, but I'll take any feedback offered.
PokerStars Game #3779421333: Tournament #18764936, Hold'em No Limit -
Level X (400/800) - 2006/01/28 - 00:40:12 (ET)
Table '18764936 5' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: sdk468 (12510 in chips)
Seat 3: DaSwam (19928 in chips)
Seat 5: dreinbo2 (8196 in chips)
Seat 8: j4ckp0t (26866 in chips)
sdk468: posts the ante 50
DaSwam: posts the ante 50
dreinbo2: posts the ante 50
j4ckp0t: posts the ante 50
j4ckp0t: posts small blind 400
sdk468: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Ah Ac]
DaSwam: raises 800 to 1600
dreinbo2: folds
j4ckp0t: calls 1200
sdk468: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [8s 9d As]
j4ckp0t: checks
sdk468: checks
DaSwam: bets 1200
j4ckp0t: raises 24016 to 25216 and is all-in
sdk468: folds
DaSwam: calls 17078 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [8s 9d As] [3s]
*** RIVER *** [8s 9d As 3s] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
j4ckp0t: shows [Ad Ts] (a flush, Ace high)
DaSwam: shows [Ah Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
j4ckp0t collected 41556 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 41556 | Rake 0
Board [8s 9d As 3s 2s]
Seat 1: sdk468 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: DaSwam showed [Ah Ac] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 5: dreinbo2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: j4ckp0t (small blind) showed [Ad Ts] and won (41556) with a
flush, Ace high
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| | | 155 | beastiemiked
ID: 481116721
Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 03:10
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My only advice is don't post hands like this asking for advice. You know it's a bad beat, warn people before they read it.
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| | | 156 | Chris
ID: 1410141221
Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 18:03
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I'm down for any tournament on PartyPoker...
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| | | 157 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 00:02
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I wonder how you would have played this...
I am playing live a casino. $3/$5 blinds and spread limit max bets of $150.00 per card with raises capped at 4. Kind of like no limit.
The table was good action. A $25 raise preflop was nothing. You'd have to raise $50 preflop to move weak Ace out.
I've got $400, Big Stack has $1300. The table is full of 9 players.
There were 4 players in this pot. I'm UTG and have been playing TAG all night but about 5 minutes earlier got caught trying to steal blinds (4 @ $5 each). Big Stack is loose-aggressive all night. Fish1 in fron of button is TAG (good plyer) and has $350. Button is loose-passive and has $600.
I get dealt 7-7 UTG. I limp in for $5. Big Stack is my imemdiate left and limps too. Folds the rest of the way until last 2 players linp for $5 each. Pot = $20.00.
Flop comes Ad 7d Kd so I have a set. Obviously a BIG 3flush is sitting there.
I bet $35.00
Big Stack takes about 2 minutes to raise me to $125.00 to go ($90 raise). Fish1 & Bitton fold to the $125.
So, it's back to me.....
What would you do?
I'm intersted in some feedback then I'll post what I did and the outcome.
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| | | 158 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 00:43
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rfs...well all of the diamonds on the flop hurts...I put the big stack raiser on two low diamonds...or one high diamond and a semi bluff attempt...can't really put him on a big ace or AK...if he is an aggressive player he would raise those preflop.
Big stack made a good raise which makes your decision tough...smaller bet and I call looking to fill...but calling that raise really commits you unless a 4th diamond falls...then you have to fold to any worthwhile bet...or if you have balls you could jam a 4th diamond and hope he is able to fold a small diamond.
I am not one for folding a set but in this spot I seriously think about it...easier fold if you have the player tagged as tight...if the opponent really is LAG my most likely play would probably be to call and then jam the pot on the turn if no diamond comes...take my chances knowing full well I could be beat...I know I still have outs if he does have the flush...should be some As and Ks still in the deck with no preflop raising. Some other things I take into account: how much am I up or down for the night?...what does the $400 mean to me?...am I willing to reload and play some more hours?...
Probably the right move is to fold...since you have not much invested...but would be a tough fold vs a LAG type...me I double up or go broke there knowing I will reload and probably have a decent chance of getting my money back.
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| | | 159 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 00:54
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I buy in was $350. I was only up $50 for for the night at this point playing from 8p to 3a. part of the reason i asked tis question is I am wondering how cloudy my judgement was as I was tired.
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| | | 160 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 11:31
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Since this was spread limit, I began stacking chips quickly trying to portray confidence. I quickly gatherered up the $90 call in one stack and the $150 potential raise in anotehr stack. I did need time to think about my decision so I tried to represent my need for time as whether to raise or just call.
When I made the decision to raise, I rearranged my last $300 from stacks to $100 each to $150 each so he knew I was prepared to jam another max $150 after the turn.
I moved in $240.
I really put him on AK. To him it wasn't going to matter if I had a set or the flush, if he wasn't holding a diamond, he was going to have to hit one of the remaining A or K to beat me (16%). We tie with runner runner diamond. I know he can't possibly put me as a TAG player on this kind of bet with a draw, so he knows I've a mde hand.
Outcome: He took a loonnnng time to decide. He even called my hand out load. He folded and tossed AK face up.
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| | | 161 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 11:53
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Sweet, ballsy move there rfs. I'd like to see you make THAT play when I'm down there in March!!! ;-)
Is the moral to the story 'you have to trust your reads' (and make good reads in the first place)?
Is one of the conclusions you can come to is that overbets are often trying to represent the hand you're worrying about vs. the hand they have?? Why bet $90 into that pot if you have the flush? Wouldn't a normal 'good' player (and yes, I'm assuming here that you have enough info to make that determination), if they've hit the flush, not overbet so much to get as much $$ from you as possible? etc
rfs makes a good comment here too about other players' reads on HIM. If he's shown himself to be a TAG, then either he's making a ballsy (perhaps out of character) move over the top to buy the pot, or as shown he has a made hand. Knowing what characteristics you have shown to others is a key point too.
That hand, decision, move and fold is a great example.
UNLIKE this c*nt I played with Saturday who busted my KK with 8-5o in a capped limit pot by catching a miracle straight on the river. omg I was steamed.
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| | | 162 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 12:00
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rfs....good play...I would have done about the same...but if you can strongly put him on AK might as well let him bury himself and give him a free look at the turn and another chance to bet. Facing AK I probably take my time and end up just calling...try to represent a draw and then hope the 4th diamond does not show on the turn...let him bet the turn and then reraise there...you probably get another $150 plus he probably has to call the reraise for the river even if he knows he is beat since there would be ~$570 in the pot and it would only cost him 150 to see the river...plus you would be nearly all-in and could only jam another ~100 at the river.
The diamonds really killed your hand...if the LAG is facing the same reraise with a rainbow board you probably double up.
Personally I still have a hard time putting a typical LAG on AK with no preflop raise...
Always good to pick up a decent pot at any point...but once I decided I am putting all of my money in with the hand I would have taken a risk and slowed down to try and extract more. Definitely a risk though because if another A or K hit the board filling us both I definitely would not get away from the hand.
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| | | 163 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 12:04
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Species...if the LAG has a baby flush...something like 5-6 suited...that would definitely call for an overbet...don't want someone with a high single suited card drawing out on you cheap. That is definitely how I initially read the hand...trying to protect a baby flush...
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| | | 164 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Wed, Feb 01, 2006, 15:21
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gosh I love Donkeys...had a guy just giving me money last night...would raise every hand ~10x the blind preflop...would call any reraise preflop...and would call or bluff off his stack after the flop.
Example...1-2 NL...I get dealt JJ...donkey raises to $20...I reraise to $60...he calls...flop 10-10-10...I bet $35 (trying to show some fear...not that it probably mattered against this player)...he reraises all-in ~$175...I call...he has 5-8 offsuit. I double up.
If it was that easy every night I would quit my job.
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| | | 165 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Feb 01, 2006, 22:16
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Every now and then one of those types shows up, and you just have to wonder where they get their money and motivation to play like that. My first instinct is that a former gf found their ex's poker account, or the youngin' found the computer on when the father's poker table was loaded... lol
Early last week some guy was raising everything big preflop (5-15x, but different every hand, he like variety) check/calling to the turn, then pushing everything on the river. Every hand, without fail. The table was experiencing some turnover, with new people coming in at a fast rate, so it was pretty funny watching new players to the table (who hadn't seen his act yet) folding to the river bet over and over. They built up a nice stack for Mr. Idiot, and I took it all (~250$) when I flopped the nut flush. Felt very weird checking the nut flush on the turn and river, and I wondered if he'd check behind me just to spite me... but he wasn't that smart. He reloaded twice more, but alas I didn't catch even a starting hand worthy of playing. Can't complain though, I guess I got my fair share. ;)
Unlike most donkeys he was very active in the chat box, and let me have a real earful when I took his stack. Too funny. My guess is he was drunk or high.
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| | | 166 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Thu, Feb 02, 2006, 00:09
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Had another chance at one tonight....but sat and waited for 45 minutes...1st on waiting list...of course noone getting up. 2-4 NL...everyone at the table had more than $1000...except for one player giving away his money...finally someone gets up but it is donkey boy....bleh...still sat down and won some money as everyone was feeling a little frisky from the rush they were all on from santa claus passing out cash. Average pot size was ~$200 which is huge for 2-4 NL.
Another thing I like about loose crazies is sometimes it can get the rest of the table playing down to the nuts level especially after the nut puts a couple beats on people. Nothing better than seeing a maniac double up a few times on lucky hands...except when it is your money cause you know you will only have a half dozen or so hands to get it back or it will be lost to the rest of the table.
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| | | 167 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21431823
Wed, Feb 08, 2006, 01:19
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Gotta love hands like this...
2-4NL 6-handed
> Game # 678,082,910 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> mrmanota folded
> MactanTRS raised for $12
> bearings folded
> fletcher73 called for $10
> Lison called for $8
> Dealing the Flop(2cKh4d)
> fletcher73 checked
> Lison bet for $20
> MactanTRS called for $20
> fletcher73 folded
> Dealing the turn(5d)
> Lison bet for $40
> MactanTRS called for $40
> Dealing the river(9h)
> Lison went all-in for $324
> MactanTRS went all-in for $304.17
> Extra chips returned to Lison, $19.83
> Lison shows a high card, King
(Kh9h8s5d4d)
> MactanTRS wins $762.34 with Three of a Kind, Kings
He had 8-3 offsuit...picked the wrong time to make a play...
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| | | 168 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:10
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Just got back from Vegas yesterday. What a trip! A few quick observations:
There seemed to be alot of what I'd call 'decent tourists' at the tables. Players who knew the odds, knew proper play, and had played online/local before, but didn't know how to mix up their play or get away from top pair/top kicker (which they would take to the river for all their chips vs. another tight player who obviously had something big.)
There were a few total donkeys too, who would sit down to a 200$ buyin table with 50$ and have to have the rules explained to them, or who would sit down with 500$ in a 2/5 game and play like it was play money. They messed me up more then they helped me it seemed. More on that later.
My first day I played 11 straight hours at an MGM 1/2 table, and took my 200$ to 1650$. Mostly from being paid off for slowplaying my 3 sets and 2 nut flushes, but also from taking pots nobody else wanted. Amazing how tossing in 3 red chips into a 40$ pot can take it down without a fight at least 3/4 of the time. Everyone knew what I was doing, and nobody tried to stopped me unless they had a big hand. (Which I easily folded to.) I even taunted them by saying "re-raise me and I'll fold", and still they all folded. They seemed to think they could 'catch' me with a big hand, not realizing I was actually playing pretty tight and would just fold to a re-raise everytime.
2nd day I played a bit more at MGM and at the Luxor (where I was staying) but just wasn't feeling it. Was feeling jet-lagged and hadn't slept too well, so after losing 350$ in one hand (flopped a set on a 3-spade flop, and didn't get away from the guy who flopped the flush) I decided to spend the day touring the city with my father and his business group. Took in the strip, ate at some fancy restaurants (with his company footing the bill :) and at night took a helicopter tour of Vegas. Never been in a 'copter before, so that was pretty cool.
The 3rd night I played at MGM and Caesars, and it was unreal how many donkeys were out. Half of my table was filled with calling stations and drunk idiots. A chance for easy money, but I was also risking my chips more often then I wanted to. For example:
I saw a juicy 2/5 NL table at MGM and sat down. 5th hand in, I get dealt AA in early position. UTG raised to 20$, but at this table that really meant nothing. I decide to just move all my 500$ in, figuring either some sucker will call or I'll take in 27$. Either works for me, and I had seen plenty of flops at this table with 5-6 people in it, even with 50$ preflop raises, and I didn't want that. I get FOUR callers. First caller had KK (fine), second was a drunken idiot who afterwards said he had 99, and the third was utterly clueless. He first tried to limp in for 5$, then when told the bet was 500$ he put in 50$, then after being told 500$ again he put it in without a thought. LOL! He ended up mucking so I had no idea what he had. Had a smile on his face the entire time though, just happy to be there. The fourth caller had 78s, and I can't really blame him for calling at that point. Huge pot (~1400$) laying him solid pot odds, and he had a big stack already. He ended up catching two pair on the turn to take it. I've been replaying this hand for a while in my head, wondering if the 78s would've dumped his hand to an all-in post-flop bet instead of preflop, given the Q76 board. Wouldn't mind your opinions on this one, although I'm weary to second guess a play where I moved all-in with the best hand.
Anyway, I finished that night down another 700$. Was up 500$ at one point and down ~1200$ at another, so that was a real roller-coaster night. Lots of fun, but not really the kind of poker I had come to play. I talked with a couple of the decent players there about where I could get a solid game, and they all recommended Bellagio.
So my last day in Vegas I played 2/5 NL there for ~8 hours, and finished up 550$ without ever having a monster. There were a few calling stations at the table who came and went, but no donkeys. There was also alot of solid players who knew what they were doing. Check/raises and re-raises were quite common, or at least more common then at the MGM tables I sat at. It was definitely an action table, but action that had thought behind it. Playing back at these guys, trying to get reads on their play and trying to think what they were thinking I was thinking was just awesome. Easily the most fun I had in Vegas, even if the profit (and potential profit) was smaller then my other nights.
A few other highlights:
- Watching a drunk sucker at MGM muck a nut straight flush. Board was 8/9/10/J of clubs, someone turned over the A, and he mucked his Q thinking his Q-high flush was beat. He realized it immediately and actually reached back into the dealer's fold pile to expose his Qc. Spent a good 5 minutes berating the dealer for not giving him the pot before being asked to leave.
- Watching a ~3000$ pot I could've won be carted away, and still was left more amazed at the actual hands involved. I had 9/10s on the button in a 2/5 NL game at MGM. Flop of JK6, 4 other players in the hand. It got raised and re-raised all-in before it even got to me, so I had no choice but to fold; even with all that money in the pot I wasn't getting pot odds. All 4 ended up all-in, not a rarity at this psycho table... except in this case there was justification for all of them, even if some of us here would've gotten away from a few of them. The hands: AA, KK, JJ and 66. A Q hit at the river, giving me the straight had I been as crazy as the rest of the table. Even in all my online playing I've never seen 3 sets off the flop. Any probability whizzes care to take a shot at the odds of that?
- Watching one maniac tell a tight player he was wrong to raise all-in post flop with AJ on a Jh/5c/4c board. The tight player correctly put the maniac on a flush draw. There was 50$ in the pot, and the maniac raised it 25$ on the flop. The tight player re-raised it to 200$, and the maniac calls with 10c2c, saying "I got odds and have no choice but to call. Wrong play buddy." He gets his flush and has the audacity to berate the tight player for a bad move. LOL!
Just an awesome trip, and I can't wait to go back. Probably try and plan something during the summer with my friends.
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| | | 169 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:42
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Sweet recap R9. No mention of Studio 54 and that great bar next to the MGM poker area though? ;-)
Can't really blame you on the AA hand. As you said, either take it down now or maybe get one idiot caller. What sucks is that the 78s guy probably folds if there weren't 3 other callers already in! One caller? Probably folds and you take it down.
There are many times I walk away frustrated after a night of idiots calling with hands they have no business being in and I'm down for the night.....then I remind myself that over the long haul those people are where I make my money, and sometimes that's just how the cards go....
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| | | 170 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:49
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lol! I did check out the club of course. ;) After playing at Caesars and Bellagio though, I'll likely skip MGM the next time I go. MGM is outrageously loud, between the club and the directors talking to each other over their microphones. Someone really needs to buy them a set of walkie-talkies.
I wasn't even upset on the AA hand, although that might've just been because of the jovial nature of the table. I knew I was a dog going in (even though I had the best individual odds) so it wasn't all that surprising, and I was actually happy that I had the best chance at a huge pot. I was just a bit annoyed at the kind of poker being played, as I was looking for a more challenging and interesting game, since I was there for a short time. If I was a regular and was looking to make serious money, the MGM is THE place to be any day after 6-7 PM. The conventions let out and the tourists are done touring for the day, and they all sit down and think free beer is a great idea. ;)
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| | | 171 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:02
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Of note, the glass between the bar the poker room was non-seethrough, probably because everyone in the pokerroom would be distracted by the hourly 'dance on top of the bar' they do there. ;)
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| | | 172 | Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:20
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R9, your AA play was fine. probably 9/10 you'd take that pot.
I have to say though that maybe I'm the only one but I'd have folded that 78. Pot odds are good but you know you are way behind at least 1 hand and probably more. I'd have folded and waited for a better day, pot odds or not.
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| | | 173 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:22
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Even in all my online playing I've never seen 3 sets off the flop. Any probability whizzes care to take a shot at the odds of that?
What? Nobody stood up and declared: "This place is a joke. This is so rigged! Now I see why I never play here anymore!" ???
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| | | 174 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 16:02
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R9, was everyone else at the table all-in when the big stack made the call? I could see making the play due to pot odds when you won't have to put any more money into the pot.
I probably wouldn't make that 78 call though. You have to figure that you have a least 2 pocket pairs that are higher than 78.
Glad you had a fun time.
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| | | 175 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 21:49
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Frick, yeah the 78s was the last to go all-in, and he took a little while to do it. My quick calculations are that he didn't even have pot odds, but he had to figure that his 7 and 8 were live, as was likely mosts straights combining a 7 and 8. He looked like a gambler who had been having a lucky night (you'd have to at that table) so I wasn't too surprised.
Sludge, I think everyone at the table was too stunned. The 66 and AA guys immediately left the table, and the woman with the JJ didn't look like she would know the probability of flipping a coin. Another one who was just happy to be there, playing that 'game thats on TV'. She also only lost half her stack, which was going up and down faster then a rollercoaster. Definitely didn't know what hit her. I think a few of us realized it was pretty unreal, but the actual odds of that happening seem to be outrageous. Is it less or more likely then flopping a Royal? My instinct is less, but not my area of expertise.
Ironically enough I had a stats test 1 hour after stepping off the plane in Montreal on Sunday, and hadn't slept in 30 hours, so I'm sure the test result will confirm my lack of expertise there. ;)
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| | | 176 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Feb 14, 2006, 01:37
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention the coolest part of the trip! I was cruising around Caesars with my dad, and we noticed the tourney room behind the main poker area. We decided to check it out, and took three steps in before almost walking into none other then TJ Cloutier. Beside him is Antonio Esfandari, and Phil Helmuth is on the microphone, going from table to table giving updates. Turns out we walked in on a charity tourney they were all promoting. Mike the mouth Matusow showed up later also. Got a pick of Mike talking with Phil, and my dad even chatted with TJ for a bit while watching one of the tables. Just small talk about how Vegas had grown since he started there, but pretty dang cool nonetheless!
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| | | 177 | weykool
ID: 60552122
Tue, Feb 14, 2006, 10:16
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R9:
Got knocked out of a tourny @ PP when the flop came 7-A-5.
Needless to say the rockets knocked out my set of 7's and the set of 5's.....but I agree with you it has to be very rare.
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| | | 178 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 590172314
Wed, Feb 15, 2006, 11:17
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Nice trip report...I think I need to make my way to Vegas soon...
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| | | 179 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 09:28
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I was in a tournament last night and the blinds were around 100-200. I call and everyone folds except the blinds who both call. Flop comes up 2J7 rainbow. I have AJ and go all-in. Small blind folds and big blind calls. I was lucky that I had about 1500 more in chips than the big blind otherwise I would have been out of the tournament. Big Blind had 72 os. Turn and River don't help anyone and the big blind doubles up and I lose about 7k in chips. I got very luck on a couple of hands and ended up winning the tournament, but a quick reminder, don't let the BB play for free.
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| | | 180 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 13:50
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...but a quick reminder, don't let the BB play for free.
I think the more important lesson is never assume or believe that your top pair with top kicker is worth a damn in any limped pot. Also, why the hell are you going all-in off the bat like that? All you're doing is shopping for two-pair or better. At best, you're going to take down the $600 pot, and you already know what the "at worst" is. A $300-$600 bet would have been more than enough to discover if you were beat.
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| | | 181 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 14:39
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The table was really loose and I wanted to take down the pot at that point, I didn't want to see any more cards.
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| | | 182 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 15:01
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Raise 3x preflop. Bet 2/3-3/4 pot on flop. Gross overbets like that are never recommended unless you have the goods and you know a lesser hand will call you. Congrats on winning.
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| | | 183 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Thu, Feb 16, 2006, 15:45
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If you're ahead with top pair-top kicker you want a caller. If you're behind you want to fold. Going all-in ensures you'll get called when behind and that you'll get no callers when you're ahead.
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| | | 184 | Davis
ID: 8041210
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 07:00
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So guys get this, i'm playing a 25 dollar sit and go tourny online at Pacific Poker..
I get AA, medium stack but the blinds are real high for the situation. I go all in after first guy raises it up. Everyone folds but he calls, turns out he also has AA.
Now for the beat? a flush
He gets 4 clubs to beat me...
rotten
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| | | 185 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 07:08
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Has anyone played at vippoker.com? That 100% deposit match up to $750 looks enticing but I don't know anyone that has played there. I'm sure the 2+2 forums have plenty about it but I thought I'd check here first.
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| | | 186 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 08:25
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Davis, I had a similar situation last night. I was short stacked and went all-in with A4 suited. The BB called and we flip over. A4c for me A4h for him. 1 heart on the flop and then turn, river hearts to give him a flush.
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| | | 187 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 09:43
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Anyone playing at party beware of their new update, Party Poker upgrade problems
Because of the latest issues I think I'm going to stay away from Party for awhile. Unfortunately, I have no money in any of my other accounts and want to get started somewhere else asap. Anyone interested in a Party to Stars money transfer swap? I'd transfer you the agreed upon amount(hopefully $300+) on Party and you'd return the favor on Stars. It's a little risky for me since I'd transfer first but I trust most of you all. Email me or post here if interested.
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| | | 188 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 11:56
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Anybody been following any of the Andy Beal vs The Corporation? (Brunsons, Greenstein, Harmon, Forrest, ...)...Beal just took them for 10 million playing headsup limit hold'em.
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| | | 189 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 11:58
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Recommendation...check out the new poker show on GSN (Game Show Network)..."High Stakes Poker" best poker on TV IMO. Cash game no limit holdem with all big name players. So refreshing to see cash poker on TV instead of final table tournament style poker...bet...all-in...race...repeat. Good to see players actually play. On Monday nights...161 on Comcast digital.
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| | | 190 | tommyd
ID: 46928248
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 13:17
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Yeah the High Stakes Poker is very interesting. That Sheiky guy was being a real a-hole and getting on everyone's nerves. Nice to see some post-flop play though like you said unlike the tourneys.
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| | | 191 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 18:35
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Davis, had a similar situation as well in the later stages of a tourney. Bout 600 started, down to 150. Moved all-in with a top 1/3 stack, and got called by the #2 overall stack with AKs on a flop of K52, one of my suit. He has AKs as well, with both of us 1 card to our suit on the flop. He turns/rivers the flush to take me out. Ugh...
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| | | 192 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Feb 17, 2006, 21:56
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Ah yes, something I wanted to ask you guys who've played live before... what is the strategic point of straddling? The guy to my left did it for every one of my BB's at one table, not that I minded all that much. It just didn't seem to payoff for him very well, and the idea of putting in twice the money as the BB for no good reason, in an early position, seems kindof stupid to me.
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| | | 193 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 02:31
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$20 SNG. Heads up. Couldn't help but rub it in a little before I called ;-)
***** Hand History for Game 3573967168 *****
600/1200 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 20264147) - Sat Feb 18 02:27:41 EST 2006
Table Still Going (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 7: Sirius68 (14290)
Seat 10: mfflmore (5710)
mfflmore posts small blind (300)
Sirius68 posts big blind (600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sirius68 [ 7h, Ks ]
mfflmore raises (900) to 1200
Sirius68 raises (1200) to 1800
mfflmore calls (600)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, Kh, Kd ]
Sirius68 checks.
mfflmore bets (3910)
mfflmore is all-In.
Sirius68: bad time to bluff
Sirius68 calls (3910)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Js ]
Creating Main Pot with $11420 with mfflmore
** Summary **
Main Pot: 11420 |
Board: [ 2h Kh Kd 4s Js ]
Sirius68 balance 20000, bet 5710, collected 11420, net +5710 [ 7h Ks ] [ three of a kind, kings -- Ks,Kh,Kd,Js,7h ]
mfflmore balance 0, lost 5710 [ 5s 6d ] [ a pair of kings -- Kh,Kd,Js,6d,5s ]
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| | | 194 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 11:05
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I would have been a little worried about a flush draw or K better kicker.
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| | | 195 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 12:06
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I suppose....but I wasn't impressed with this guy, and I had him covered almost 3 to 1.
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| | | 196 | Davis
ID: 42735218
Sat, Feb 18, 2006, 22:17
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Guys, I'm just wondering a little something about the referral bonuses on PACIFIC POKER.
I've referred two people now, so i get 100$ deposited to my bank account. How long/many hands do i need to play in order to be able to cash out that money, or what is the deal??
I don't plan on stopping playing, i'm doing well and liking it but i'm just curious.
anyone know, or know where to find out?
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| | | 198 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 01:21
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192
From what ive gathered and learned playing live, straddling serves to beef up the pot, and give the straddler benefit of being last to act on all preflop betting.
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| | | 199 | Davis
ID: 42735218
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 08:54
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still not real clear, can anyone make sense of that??
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| | | 200 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 09:48
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I don't think it confers an advantage, unless perhaps you are an extremely loose aggressive player (and your post-flop play can support that), and would be in your element in with large pot, regardless of what hole cards you have.
General it isn't done to gain an advantage, it's done to make the game more interesting, and perhaps confer an impression of looseness.
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| | | 201 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 13:07
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Alright, I've jumped in, playing with play money at Party Poker. Let me tell you, it is great, but I'm not sure the lessons I'm learning right now are ones I'm going to want to remember :)
I signed up yesterday and got my initial $1000 play money. I join one of many $5/$10 tables. There are two players with huge stacks - one had $31,000 another $16,000. I'm amazed at what I see, the blinds are so tiny that everyone sticks around to see the flop. I immediately realize that this is nothing like I have been reading about or watch on TV. These people are loath to fold.
I lose my first $1000 fairly quickly, but I see how easy it is to get another, you hit a button. I win a pot or two and quit.
I come back and see that you can create a huge "bank account", but you are only allowed to bring in $2000 when you sit down at a table. In order to get those big stacks, you have to invest some time at an individual table, the first of the "hooks" they try to implant.
I start winning right off. People come and go from this table and I'm soon the big stack. There are a few players who play at the emotional age of 14 and I feed off these guys. They call everything and once in a great while they win a large pot that a bunch of other clowns feed. With the big stack, I wait until I have a great hand and relieve him of his play money and interest in this table.
I am not a gambler in general, biliruben can testify to that, but I was jumping up from my chair and pumping my fist on more than one occasion yesterday. In about two and a half hours, I was up to $28,000. I realize that the halfway decent free players are not wasting their time in these penny-ante games, but you've got to remember, I don't have a feel for this game yet. I've not seen many flops, haven't sat there with my fingers crossed waiting for that fifth suited on the river. One of the drawbacks of having seven or eight people watching the flop is the dreaded 2s over 4s full houses. These are the potential pitfalls that just don't seem to happen in real life.
One thing that struck me was how fast the game goes. You really have to be paying attention to see what the winning hand had. I'm sure most of you are so used to this pace that everything else in life is glacial. I recognize the rush I was getting and I'm going to play some more today, but like computer games, this will be a temporary fad for myself.
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| | | 202 | Sludge
ID: 14411118
Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 14:19
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With the big stack, I wait until I have a great hand and relieve him of his play money and interest in this table.
You've just stated the winning philosophy in micro-stakes poker. Good on ya. But you don't have to have the big stack to make it work. Once you realize that raising preflop does nothing at these tables, you understand that limping in with decent to premium hands and only getting aggressive when you hit a monster (or, even better yet, let someone else get aggressive that doesn't understand the value of their top pair with deuce kicker) will be a winning strategy in the long-run. I know there are other strategies out there that will net more in the long run, but they will have more variability associated with them. You will take some awful beats and you have to accept that. But I'm not sure that there's a strategy with a lower risk to reward ratio out there.
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| | | 203 | beastiemiked
Leader
ID: 03531815
Mon, Feb 20, 2006, 09:28
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Species, reraising the minimum with those blinds is pretty bad. Do you expect him to fold a better hand? You are giving him huge odds to call with any 2 against your mediocre K7. Unless the guy was a complete jerk before this hand there's no reason to rub it in his face.
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| | | 204 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:37
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Until this weekend, I'd been having a miserable February. But turned it around and placed 5-4-3-2 in four tourneys I played. Now I just need to find a big tourney to finish the trend!
The tourney ($35 buy-in, pay top 5 - $550 for 1st) I played in last night got completely crazy at the final table. Very very tense, and two big guys started sniping at each other about card protection. Big stack told the small stack to stop showing his cards to the people behind him, that he smelled and to take a bath and then basically called small stack out. Small stack, (who I've played with before - very intense, but very good player), came right back and started telling him he would happily kick his ass, and started pointing his finger right in the guys face, and may have brushed big stack's nose. Big stack, though in cammo gear and a big guy, I think started realizing too late that he might be on the losing end of things in more ways then one if this continued down this road, demanded we stop the game and that the house call the police and file assault charges.
A bit of background before I ask you a question:
This is probably one of the largest, newest and most opulant private casinos in town, with higher stakes games, 3 high-end restaurants, and generally well run, but I think the poker manager really dropped the ball on this one.
How would you have handled that situation, if you were the manager?
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| | | 205 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:47
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Ideally, they would have both been removed from the table for a few minutes before it had escalated to that point. I don't know if you saw it, but they showed a couple of scenes from the World Series of Poker where players were given 10-15 minute "time outs" for cursing. It gives the player a chance to cool off.
I have not played in a casino, but I would assume that most have policies regarding what is or is not allowed and that sort of behavior, possible violence, is going to lead to other customer's not coming back, which what the casino doesn't want.
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| | | 206 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:49
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Signed them both to contracts and pitched a TV pilot to the inevitable Poker TV 24-hour cable station!
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| | | 207 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:51
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That would have been nice, but it got passed that point quickly.
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| | | 208 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:52
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lol
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| | | 209 | biliruben
ID: 531202411
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:56
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Zen - would he have any case on assault charges, presuming that the cameras picked up contact?
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| | | 210 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 10:59
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Unfortuntately, yes. I've represented people who have been charged with assault who merely tossed a brush at someone and it hit them harmlessly in the ass.
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| | | 211 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 11:36
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bmd #203 - you know how it goes heads up. Half the time you raise with absolutely nothing to steal the other blind. I made this play often as he would often fold if I came back at him. That was definitely a "play the man, not the cards" kind of raise. So yes, he did fold quite a few times even at a minimum raise.
Heads up action is certainly the loosest I get. As we've all discussed you can't wait for your usual starting hands and you play most every hand depending upon your stack. I was nearly 3-to-1 on this guy so there was hardly a hand I let go.
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| | | 212 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:15
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Okay, I won't leave you in suspense any longer. ;)
This is how it played out:
The police were called and both parties were escorted away from the table and out to the lobby. At one point if finally dawned on big-stack the implications of his escalation, and he came running back in and starts hollering "you can't penalize me for this!" and pointing at his chips, and is grabbed by two security goons and yanked back out.
What did he think we were going to do, stop the game and wait for him to fill out a police report that someone had tried to pick his nose?
The manager initially does the right thing, I think, and just allows the stacks to remain, and slowly blinds them off. The main beneficiary is the guy to my left (who's a penis, btw, lecturing me on proper pot odds or telling me to go buy a lottery ticket and such whenever I call or raise his shriveled self - which is fine, except he didn't know what the hell he was talking about, giving me lots of information about how to take advantage of him.), who rightly steals the blinds whenever the ghosts are in them and I don't have a hand to do it first.
This goes on until their are 4 people left (and 6 stacks) at the table, and then the manager (who turns out to be new) inexplicably comes over and says "They've left for good" and picks up their stacks. Whuh?!?
He proceeds to pay off 7th place as if he won 5th (who wisely high-tails it out of there, pronto), and 8th place a 6'6' big black dude who's been hanging around, starts howling up a hissing fit, and rightly so.
In middle of this the game continues, I knock out penis with a check-raise push two-pair (that was sweet), new big stack knocks out the other guy, HTH I have my shot at 1st place with a pair of Qs, but he rivers a straight and it's over.
The upshot of this is that I wait around drinking comped Stolis for an hour while they review the tapes and confer, focusing mainly on how the new poker manager's a bonehead, and finally give me my $330 for second so that I can get out of there and walk my dog.
It turns out they refunded the testosterone twins their entry fees, so that some how justified making the horrible decision to liquidate their stacks in the middle of the final table.
How do you think this should this have been handled?
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| | | 213 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:37
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Continue to let the blinds eat away their stacks.
I was in an on-line tournament the other night and someone finished in the money even though they had been "sitting out" for the last hour.
It would have been a long night if you were left with heads-up against the dead stack, but you could probably knock out the dead stack pretty quickly.
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| | | 214 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:41
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So then what? Technically, one or the other of the ejected guys won at least 5th, and maybe better.
Do you pay them off? If so, how? They are gone.
Do you redistribute their winnings to the other 3-4 winners?
I dunno the answer to these questions.
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| | | 215 | Sludge
ID: 11042612
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:43
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How do you think this should this have been handled?
Blind 'em out and let them finish where they finish. I would imagine the casino has some policy regarding their winnings in a situation like this (e.g. they forfeit them). If not, that's pretty short-sighted. If the table agrees to play nice and keep the short stacks alive until the two morons are blinded out, great. If not, too bad for the short stacks. I wonder if the two players, realizing what might happen to their stacks and winnings, didn't try to kiss and make up right then and there but the cops were having none of it.
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| | | 216 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 13:56
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I don't know for a fact, but I would be willing to bet that the casino has a policy in place for unclaimed winnings. They probably go to the state's unclaimed property department after they aren't claimed.
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| | | 217 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 14:12
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Yeah, I guess that's how it should have played out. It would have been interesting to see whether or not they could have cooled their hatred when, you know, the figured out actual money was at stake. ;)
They have only been hosting this game for about 6 months, and it only recently has gotten popular, as they dropped the entry fee (used to be $105) and it's the only evening tourney in the area.
It's possible that they do not have any set policy in place for unclaimed winnings, but I hope they give some thought to this for the future.
The previous poker manager ran a pretty tight ship, and I'm sure he would have known how to work it out, but perhaps he didn't disseminate the rules very well.
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| | | 218 | ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Wed, Feb 22, 2006, 15:48
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Started a new discussion thread...
link
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