Forum: gent
Page 132
Subject: Poker Part V

  Posted by: ChicagoTRS - Leader [566152116] Wed, Feb 22, 2006, 15:47
General Poker discussion...(continued)
 
1DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Wed, Feb 22, 2006, 22:17 		Well, I have just entered the world of big-time (ha!) online poker. Had been playing play money for a while, and actually found a site that buys play money chips for real cash (albeit not much). So I'm slumming in the 1c/2c games for now.

Did I do anything horribly wrong on this hand (other perhaps than being in the hand in the first place)? I realize counting on the flush draw for outs was probably questionable, but since I did actually have the big flush draw, I had to be right on this one, yes? No?? (I was a little steamed from the hand before, where I got rivered out of both halves of about a $25 pot.)


PokerStars Game #4065934711: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2006/02/22 - 22:04:32 (ET)
Table 'Oceana V' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Redram ($1.61 in chips)
Seat 2: jimmydents ($0.70 in chips)
Seat 3: MsFixer ($0.48 in chips)
Seat 4: trueair ($13.13 in chips)
Seat 5: DWetzel ($5 in chips)
Seat 6: D3vil_Ang3l ($4.31 in chips)
Seat 7: LuckieRiver ($14.59 in chips)
Seat 8: Da_Bear1 ($1 in chips)
2oECKOo5 will be allowed to play after the button
Redram: posts small blind $0.01
DWetzel said, "bah, river"
jimmydents: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DWetzel [2s Th Jd Qh]
DWetzel said, "big time river"
MsFixer: calls $0.02
trueair: folds
DWetzel: calls $0.02
D3vil_Ang3l: folds
LuckieRiver: calls $0.02
Da_Bear1: calls $0.02
Redram: calls $0.01
DWetzel said, "for both halves"
jimmydents: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h Kh 9s]
Redram: checks
jimmydents: checks
MsFixer: checks
DWetzel: bets $0.10
LuckieRiver: calls $0.10
Da_Bear1: folds
Redram: calls $0.10
jimmydents: raises $0.52 to $0.62
MsFixer: folds
DWetzel: calls $0.52
LuckieRiver: raises $2.08 to $2.70
Redram: folds
jimmydents: calls $0.06 and is all-in
DWetzel: calls $2.08
*** TURN *** [8h Kh 9s] [4d]
DWetzel: checks
LuckieRiver: bets $6
DWetzel: calls $2.28 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8h Kh 9s 4d] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DWetzel: shows [2s Th Jd Qh] (HI: a pair of Nines)
LuckieRiver: shows [8s Kc Jc 4c] (HI: two pair, Kings and Nines)
DWetzel said, "lol"
LuckieRiver collected $8.20 from side pot
jimmydents: shows [9d 9h 5h 6c] (HI: four of a kind, Nines)
jimmydents collected $2.16 from main pot
No low hand qualified
DWetzel said, "whifffff"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.86 Main pot $2.16. Side pot $8.20. | Rake $0.50
Board [8h Kh 9s 4d 9c]
Seat 1: Redram (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: jimmydents (big blind) showed [9d 9h 5h 6c] and won ($2.16) with HI: four of a kind, Nines
Seat 3: MsFixer folded on the Flop
Seat 4: trueair folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: DWetzel showed [2s Th Jd Qh] and lost with HI: a pair of Nines
Seat 6: D3vil_Ang3l folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: LuckieRiver showed [8s Kc Jc 4c] and won ($8.20) with HI: two pair, Kings and Nines
Seat 8: Da_Bear1 (button) folded on the Flop
 
2R9
      ID: 181192220
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 00:52 		Seems like you had a ton of outs, what with the 9 out straight draw and 9 out flush draw. It was a weak hand to see the flop with though. No low draw, and the flush draw would never be the nut flush, so really the only draw you had was the straight, which you happened to hit.

This is why I dislike pot-limit omaha though, and Hi/Low even less. 2/4 Omaha Hi is probably my most profitable game, when I can find a juicy table at Pacific.
 
3ChicagoTRS
      ID: 531551213
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 01:06 		uggghhh...i hate this game sometimes...running terrible right now...tilted off a lot of $$$$ monday after a few sick beats...and then tonight same crap...
 
4ChicagoTRS
      ID: 531551213
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 01:31 		Just started reading Barry Greensteins book "Ace on the River"...hoping it will help me with the mental part of the game. I can stay focused and play my best probably 98% of the time but if I take 3-4 bad beats in succession or end up with a very bad session it seems to effect my play/confidence for awhile...I really respect players that can take sick beats and not let it phase them. Hard to deal with the grind...highs and lows of the game.

I will write up a review when I complete the read...so far have basically got through the biographical part of the book...pretty interesting...did not realize how much of a gambler he was in his life.
 
5R9
      ID: 181192220
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 02:06 		I'm not too good at handling bad beats either, but I am good at recognizing when I'm off my game. Whenever I take a bad beat I usually close the tables and stay away for a couple of hours at least. Probably why I'm not as good in tournies, as you can't really walk away after taking a horrible beat. (Not to mention that bad beats happen more often in tournies.)

I've ordered the Psychology of Poker from Pokerstars' FPP store and am probably going to order Sklansky's tourney book too. Both are aspects of my game that could use some help.
 
6Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 13:29 		Did I do anything horribly wrong on this hand (other perhaps than being in the hand in the first place)?

Ummm... yeah!

Four people in a limped pot and you're putting $2.70 into the pot after the flop with 2nd nut flush draw, the possibility of someone out-straighting you if it comes runner paint, and you've got no shot whatsoever at any low if it comes runner low. And even if you hit your flush or straight, if the board pairs, you have to know you're beat.

And yes, even calling the 2 cents is foolish with that hand. You're only playing for half the pot to begin with (okay, so maybe 2/3 of the pot if you consider how often the board doesn't allow a low) with a hand that isn't even that strong for a high. Even double suited, I fold that to the 2 cent blinds.
 
7Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 13:30 		so really the only draw you had was the straight, which you happened to hit.

No he didn't.
 
8Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 14:13 		On a different note, does anyone here ever play in re-buy tourneys. I have played a couple($3 buy-in) in the last week and it is tough to believe the action in re-buy period. People are all-in with anything and re-buy every other hand. Last night in the first 15 minutes there were 2500 re-buys vs. 1500 total entries. I finished in 300th place 2 nights ago and won $30 with a 1 re-buy. I got KK beat by a flush QJ unsuited and the board had 4 of a suit.

I was watching a couple of guys chat who admitted that they had spent $20+ on re-buys, idiots
 
9biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 15:05 		I play in a rebuy tourney (max 3) on Sundays sometimes. $33 buy-in for 400 chips, $10 for an extra 200 chips, max 600. Some people rebuy before the cards are even in the air, and there certainly is a lot more pushing during the first 3 rounds when you know going broke doesn't finish you.

I came in 4th Sunday (even though I was big stack when we went to final 4), when (after I had lost 2 other hands) my QQ got beat by A9, with aces full of nines. I lost to J10 who was knocked out on the same hand, but had 1 100 chip more than me. I wish I'd rebought as it cost me $120.

I think that's rare, however. The benefit is having a bit more weight to throw around in the middle rounds, and being able to take bigger chances in the early rounds to try and double-up.
 
10FRICK
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 21:22 		One of the reasons why I don't enjoy online poker.

Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/02/23 Seat 1: l_mac91969 (10965 in chips)
Seat 2: Mojito Marty (9880 in chips)
Seat 3: mightycc (8605 in chips)
Seat 4: adfrick99 (6995 in chips)
Seat 5: Al Carmo (6900 in chips)
Seat 6: Sillimuti (8580 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: Mendenhall18 (2620 in chips)
Seat 8: X__victor__X (2850 in chips)
Seat 9: Ogelthorpe (2850 in chips)
adfrick99: posts small blind 50
Al Carmo: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to adfrick99 [7d 7c]
Sillimuti: folds
Mendenhall18: folds
X__victor__X: folds
Ogelthorpe: raises 2750 to 2850 and is all-in
l_mac91969: folds
Mojito Marty: folds
mightycc: folds
adfrick99: calls 2800
Al Carmo: folds
*** FLOP *** [2h 9h 4s]
*** TURN *** [2h 9h 4s] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [2h 9h 4s 3c] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
adfrick99: shows [7d 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Ogelthorpe: shows [5s 6d] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
Ogelthorpe collected 5800 from pot
Mojito Marty said, "unreal"
 
11R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 21:42 		so really the only draw you had was the straight, which you happened to hit.

No he didn't.

His starting hand had straight draw possibilities, and he flopped a straight draw. I didn't say he hit the straight, just the draw.
 
12R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 21:47 		Frick, that happens in real life poker too. ;) Was he being an idiot in previous hands? Because while you do have him covered over 2:1, 77 to an all in with those small blinds would have me folding there. He could easily have a pair higher then yours.

As far as rebuys, people play that way to get a big stack so they can push people around in the middle rounds. Unless you get a nice run of cards in the first hour, you'll be going into the next stage of the tourney with a medium sized stack if you're playing tight. This is especially true in the 3$ rebuy tournies at Pokerstars, and its fairly common in their 11$ rebuys too. Its a legit strategy, but you have to be the kind of player who takes full advantage of a big stack.
 
13FRICK
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 22:23 		It was the last hand before the first break in a $3 w/rebuys tourny. I had him on a crap hand or at best a Kx or Ax.
 
14Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 22:27 		Intruder Alert - Doesn't Understand Poker

Question about the WSOP. Why is every poker show I see on ESPN is called the "World Series of Poker" - is it always that no matter what the event is? hmm... is it an ongoing thing and not just one single final event?
 
15DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Thu, Feb 23, 2006, 22:55 		The "World Series Of Poker" is a roughly month-long event, with various forms of poker being contested (though mainly no-limit holdem, including the main event).

Think of it as the Olympics, with a bunch of different events, and you've got the idea. Of course, with the WSOP you get 95% track and field and 5% other stuff. ;)
 
17ChicagoTRS
      ID: 531551213
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 00:17 		There are roughly 40 events in the WSOP every year culminating in the 10K no limit hold'em event...that is sort of the true championship.

The olympics is an accurate analogy.
 
18Stuck in the 60s
      Dude
      ID: 274132811
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 07:45 		Actually, the WSOP bought the rights to a number of events that it created in order to stir up interest. Seems to have been a decent bet!

I'm about ready to start playing for real. Have read some of the books, followed this board religiously and want to (pause for triteness sound effects) take it to the next level.

Have any of you experimented with the various poker software suites and are they any better than the reports posted here from the various poker sites?

 
19Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 10:49 		so i was playing poker the other day and i flop a straight, the highest possible!!!

The guy next to me flops a 2 pair!!

He bets 5 dollars to open out the round. there are 4 of us. someone else calls. I then bet 15!!! dollars to try to knock at least one of these guys out of round. The guy who raised 5 dollars goes reraises again for another 40 dollars. I then just go all in... ON the river he gets a full house..

Did i screw up? I lost about 200 dollars on that hand and it ruined my night.
 
20DWetzel from work
      ID: 10932298
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 10:56 		So, let's see... you got all your money in with the other guy basically having 4 outs?

I'm not very good (see above), but... that seems like a good idea.
 
21Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:01 		Yes.. but everytime I go all in i never ever win and usually I am ahead big time after the flop.

I am wondering if I should wait longer and just raise little increments until I can see all 5 of the cards...

So unfair.
 
22Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:04 		Oh ya i went all in the night before for another 300 dollars. I was up 100 i had trips on the flop

the flop looked something like this

J 8 5

I had trips of 888... the guy calls and has JJJ
and wins.. (lost 200 of my 300 or so)

ABout a week ago the same thing happens I go all in on trips and the guy as QQ... and catcches a Queen either on the turn or the river...

And of course I lose again another 200.

Now sometimes I win but usually at the end of the night I end up losing the biggest hand of all on bad lcuk. Should I lower my bets and wait???
 
23Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:05 		That would probably be classified as a bad beat.

Here's my stab at the actual math.

He has 4 outs, assuming that you were at a 9 player table that you have 18 cards dealt. 3 up for the flop so he has a 4 in 31 or approximately 1 in 8 chance of winning on both the turn and river.

I'll take those odds in most cases.
 
24biliruben
      ID: 531202411
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:19 		If you never win, you are playing with a rigged deck.

If you replay that same situation 100 times, you should win it around 83 out those hundred after the flop.
 
25Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:24 		maybe it is just that i never win after the other guy calls. or I never can get a willing participant of ALL in...

that is why i am saying that maybe it is just better to bet conservatively and not too much...

What poker sites do you guys recommend?
 
26Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:36 		He has 4 outs, assuming that you were at a 9 player table that you have 18 cards dealt. 3 up for the flop so he has a 4 in 31 or approximately 1 in 8 chance of winning on both the turn and river.

You always include unseen cards in the denominator.
 
27beastiemiked
      Leader
      ID: 03531815
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 11:59 		Online poker is rigged. Everyone knows that.
 
28DWetzel at library
      ID: 291162412
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 13:25 		Well, won a whopping $3.50 or so last night (hey, it's a 20% improvement on my previous bankroll, don't knock it) playing 1c/2c NLHE. Considering that during that entire time (roughly 2.5 hours), playing 2 tables at once, I literally had zero pairs above 88, and had AK twice, I think that was pretty decent. The 88 and AK both busted someone of their whopping $1 or so.

(Yes, I know playing more than one table isn't always very smart, but I find it cures some of my mini-ADD as far as playing hands I shouldn't).


Dumb question for the day (don't worry, I've got millions of 'em): What's considered a "good" though not spectacular, winning rate at no limit (expressed in terms of buyin, BB/hour, whatever you want)?
 
29R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 14:57 		Deadeye, if you bet conservatively, you'll more then likely give a weak draw pot odds to correctly call. Example:

You have QQ on a flop of QJ2. Someone else has 9/10. He'd love to see the turn and river for cheap, to try and catch his straight. If the pot is at, say, 25$, and you only bet 5$, he's getting odds to call. If you bet 25$ and he calls, he's making a negative expectation bet, and when other players do that you win in the long run.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but the more often they do that the more you'll win over the long haul. It will increase your variance though, as instead of winning lots of small pots you'll lose a couple big ones and win more than a couple big ones. You just need to remember that you had the best odds at the time the money went into the pot, and you can't ask for better then that.
 
30rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 15:41 		DWetzel at library RE: #28.

I don't know if this is good or bad, but I do track my winnings per hour and I can break it down in terms of BBs. At micro limits, you will have a MUCH MUCH higher ratio that this (as demonstarted by your own post). The ration falls off as you go up in limits, but the gross winnings go up.

Based on my personal stats (I play mainly $.50/$1 blinds NL-$100 buy in) I have earned about 8.5 BBs per hour per table. I play 1 to 4 tables at a time depending on my attention span and other activities. Keep in mind, there are plenty of time I finish way up (+$200) or way down in a session (-$300). What I am quoting you is an average based on about 180-190 hours of MT play this year, but rarely do I play 1 hour and go from $100 to $108.50 The variance doesn't work that way.

As you can see, at $0.01/$0.02 you will win more than $0.16 per hour, but if you were playing $10/$20 NL, I don't think you could expect to earn $160.00 per hour. But at those limits, if you earned 3x BB per hour, you would far and away out earn me gross.

Two points, I'm not sure my explanatioin is any clearer than mud!
And, those are real number based on my actual stats... perhaps ther e are tose here better than me that experience a better return.

Oh, and third point, I count rakeback and bonuses in my rate/hour I didn't break it out, but I'll be 25% of my profit comes from those 'extra' sources.



 
31Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 16:03 		Skank and R9,

I realize that pot limit is actually A LOT more loose.. IT HAS TO BE in order to win the BIG HAND!!! I think this is something that I need to look into because when i get beat i lose a TON of money...

POT limit players will call bets and raise just to increase the value of the pot if they HIT that huge HAND on the river.

I don't know but I am just thinking about it because i started off on a 10 dollar pot limit table and got up to about 170 in 2 hours... I like no limit but Pot limit might actually show an increase in Values. YOu got numbers on the 2?
 
32R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 16:13 		I only started my spreadsheet at the start of January. I had a poor month, actually losing 40$ over the course of the month. I mostly played 25$ NL and 100$ NL. Febuary has been the polar opposite, as im up 1,080$ in about 10 days. I played mostly 100$ NL with some Omaha Hi 2/4 Fixed dabbled in.

Its a much smaller sample size then rfs, but interestingly, my hourly rate is $8.80, which is about 8.8 BB's per hour on a 100 NL table. In Febuary I'm averaging a nice $26.50 an hour. I just signed up for rakeback and started going after bonuses, so that $8.80 is from just playing.
 
33R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 16:15 		Deadeye, I don't think I've ever played a pot limit game in my life. I'm a decent limit player, especially limit tournies, and have gotten much better at NL, but Pot limit isn't something I've tried. Given that Fixed and NL are practically two different games, I'll go out on a limb and say that pot limit likely is a different game as well. Different strategies, betting patterns, theories, etc.
 
34Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 16:20 		very interesting that you play limit.. I am assuming VERY VERY VERY TIGHT!!

I have friend who started out winning a free 5 dollars and now he is up to about 7000... I find limit just too boring myself and I thrive on doubling my money fast... Maybe that is why bad beats seem to hurt so much.. Either way Bluffing is a very bad thing on online poker...

 
35Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 16:22 		HE plays extremely tight and will never play anything but a pair or AJ and UP..

He will even fold AJ if they are not suited and is a late player....

I just don't have the patience..
 
36swami
      ID: 44111111
      Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 19:32 		I have racked my brain and I can't see how I get away from this hand after the Jack shows up. Should I have folded the hand before the flop? Any advice is more than welcomed.

PokerStars Game #4085073355: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) -
2006/02/24 - 18:35:55 (ET)
Table 'Theodora III' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: DaSwam ($24 in chips)
Seat 2: njaa ($48.50 in chips)
Seat 3: myhighlandpr ($20 in chips)
Seat 4: DANGIE704 ($15.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Table41 ($54.70 in chips)
Seat 6: tsw92 ($19.45 in chips)
Seat 7: Big Lenny T ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 8: BeatUpCivic ($102.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Johnthestraw ($50 in chips)
Big Lenny T: posts small blind $0.25
BeatUpCivic: posts big blind $0.50
myhighlandpr: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Jh Jd]
Johnthestraw: raises $1.50 to $2
DaSwam: calls $2
njaa: folds
myhighlandpr: calls $1.50
DANGIE704: folds
Table41: raises $4 to $6
tsw92: folds
Big Lenny T: folds
BeatUpCivic: folds
Johnthestraw: folds
DaSwam: calls $4
myhighlandpr: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c Kd Ks]
DaSwam: checks
Table41: checks
*** TURN *** [8c Kd Ks] [Js]
DaSwam: bets $4
Table41: raises $8 to $12
DaSwam: raises $6 to $18 and is all-in
Table41: calls $6
*** RIVER *** [8c Kd Ks Js] [Qh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DaSwam: shows [Jh Jd] (a full house, Jacks full of Kings)
Table41: shows [Kc Kh] (four of a kind, Kings)
Table41 collected $50.20 from pot
DaSwam said, "vnh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $52.75 | Rake $2.55
Board [8c Kd Ks Js Qh]
Seat 1: DaSwam showed [Jh Jd] and lost with a full house, Jacks full of
Kings
Seat 2: njaa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: myhighlandpr folded before Flop
Seat 4: DANGIE704 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Table41 showed [Kc Kh] and won ($50.20) with four of a kind,
Kings
Seat 6: tsw92 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Big Lenny T (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: BeatUpCivic (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Johnthestraw folded before Flop
 
37ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 00:34 		swami...I would not even sweat that...you are going to get hands that are impossible to get away from, if you are not putting your stack in you are losing money in the longrun because most times you are ahead.
 
38R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Feb 25, 2006, 04:49 		I'm a big fan of calling preflop raises with pocket pairs (as I'm sure alot of players are.) A set is huge the vast majority of the time, so I don't think you should've folded JJ preflop to a re-raise. I've also seen people re-raise preflop with hands like AK, AQs and 10/10, just to see where they are. For example, by just calling the preflop raise here, Table41 likely put you on something other then AA, as most people re-re-raise aces preflop.

He easily slowplayed his pocket kings on the flop, but once the J hits your screwed. You can't lay that down to a re-raise, because he easily could've been slowplaying AK. One of those times where your just going to go broke.

-------------------------------------------------

In the same vein but twice as silly, last night I went broke on a 10/9/2 flop with a set of 9's, the other guy had set 10's. Three hands later I'm back heads up with the same guy, and we're both all-in on an AK5 flop. We both turn AKs over, but the 5 is of my suit. I runner-runner a flush and get my money back. Sometimes this game can be really stupid. :)
 
40DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Sun, Feb 26, 2006, 17:16 		Today's stupid question of the day:

What's the recommended bankroll (in terms of number of buyins) for NLHE or pot limit games? I know that for limit games it's like 300 BB or so.
 
41FRICK
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Sun, Feb 26, 2006, 22:30 		Is there anyway you get away from this hand? I was in a position that if I folded I could have probably limped along and finished in the money in another 30 minutes or so. I finished in 600th and top 450 paid.

PokerStars Game #4112221560: Tournament #20002628, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/02/26 - 22:23:50 (ET)
Table '20002628 219' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: hiddengopher (3173 in chips)
Seat 2: Blazed3x1 (13508 in chips)
Seat 3: HOTWOP (1385 in chips)
Seat 4: adfrick99 (4520 in chips)
Seat 5: Mickbob76 (7630 in chips)
Seat 6: dnfdon (6410 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: Phillips D. (6045 in chips)
Seat 8: burnormal (1420 in chips)
Seat 9: PHLEUS (5965 in chips)
Blazed3x1: posts small blind 100
HOTWOP: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to adfrick99 [Kc Ks]
adfrick99: raises 200 to 400
Mickbob76: calls 400
dnfdon: folds
Phillips D.: calls 400
burnormal: folds
PHLEUS: folds
hiddengopher: folds
Blazed3x1: calls 300
HOTWOP: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Qh 3d Th]
Blazed3x1: checks
HOTWOP: bets 400
adfrick99: raises 2600 to 3000
Mickbob76: folds
Phillips D.: calls 3000
Blazed3x1 said, "bout to be a bit pot"
Blazed3x1: raises 4000 to 7000
HOTWOP: calls 585 and is all-in
adfrick99: calls 1120 and is all-in
Phillips D.: calls 2645 and is all-in
dnfdon has returned
*** TURN *** [Qh 3d Th] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [Qh 3d Th 9c] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Blazed3x1: shows [3s Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Threes)
Phillips D.: shows [As Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Blazed3x1 collected 3050 from side pot-2
adfrick99: shows [Kc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
Blazed3x1 collected 9405 from side pot-1
HOTWOP: shows [Jh 9h] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
Blazed3x1 collected 5940 from main pot
miss39red is connected
Checkbook is connected
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18395 Main pot 5940. Side pot-1 9405. Side pot-2 3050. | Rake 0
Board [Qh 3d Th 9c Qd]
Seat 1: hiddengopher (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Blazed3x1 (small blind) showed [3s Qc] and won (18395) with a full house, Queens full of Threes
Seat 3: HOTWOP (big blind) showed [Jh 9h] and lost with two pair, Queens and Nines
Seat 4: adfrick99 showed [Kc Ks] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 5: Mickbob76 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: dnfdon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Phillips D. showed [As Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 8: burnormal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PHLEUS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
42weykool
      ID: 60552122
      Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 02:58 		Frick on the turn you had 5 outs from 47 cards(2 kings and 3 10's)with 2 cards to come.
Once you put in your 3000 you were pot commited and you were getting pot odds on your last 1120.
After the turn you had 12 outs with 46 cards remaining. (add 3 9's and 4 J's).
Perhaps a bet smaller than 3000 might have been different odds, but pocket kings against that ugly flop is certainly justifiable.
 
43R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 08:19 		Your one small mistake was only raising the minimum pre-flop. I know you want a caller, but a pair is just a pair, and with AA, KK or QQ what you really want is just one opponent. By only raising the min you let the blinds call for cheap, and with KK thats never a good idea. 600 would've been the least I raise, but I probably make it 5x to go.

The guy with AA made a far more horrible play, by calling and letting another 2 people into a pot that already had 3 people in it. With AA there I at least raise to 1200. All-in isn't a bad play either. I'd be happy take down the pot right there, and the only likely caller is the original raiser. (Which you probably would've done, but c'est la vie.)

With 4 other players in the pot, a two-suited and two broadway card flop has to be bet strong with KK or let go. You can't let a flush or straight (like J9) draw for cheap, so your bet is fine. (Or you could've checked and folded.) You got unlucky in that everyone hit this flop. You were going broke here no matter what you did though, as heads up vs. AA you still lose. I don't second-guess myself in those situations, sometimes the cards just play mean tricks on you.
 
44DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 22:03 		(sigh) I'm going to have to get used to these, I guess. Anything seriously wrong on this one, or did I just get randomly sucked out on by an idiot? (I'm guessing mostly the latter, but I figured I'd ask anyway.)

PokerStars Game #4133643762: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2006/02/28 - 21:55:42 (ET)
Table 'Arethusa V' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: BillyGirl3 ($1.78 in chips)
Seat 2: bigwavdave ($4.36 in chips)
Seat 3: skeletor33 ($4.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Barri Cuda ($1.71 in chips)
Seat 5: buduman ($2.17 in chips)
Seat 6: BasilHayden8 ($1.59 in chips)
Seat 7: DWetzel ($2.47 in chips)
Seat 8: jmooresy ($5.09 in chips)
Seat 9: Sooner8184 ($5 in chips)
bigwavdave: posts small blind $0.01
skeletor33: posts big blind $0.02
Sooner8184: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DWetzel [Kc Kh]
Barri Cuda: calls $0.02
buduman: calls $0.02
BasilHayden8: raises $0.02 to $0.04
jmooresy said, "i nealy doubled up last night"
DWetzel: raises $0.06 to $0.10
jmooresy said, "nearly*"
jmooresy: calls $0.10
Sooner8184: folds
BillyGirl3: folds
bigwavdave: folds
skeletor33: folds
Barri Cuda: folds
Sooner8184 said, "nice"
buduman: folds
BasilHayden8: raises $0.06 to $0.16
DWetzel: calls $0.06
jmooresy: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [Th 2h 6d]
BasilHayden8: checks
jmooresy said, "i caught aces when someone else had queens and jacks"
DWetzel: bets $0.40
jmooresy said, "****"
jmooresy: folds
BasilHayden8: calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Th 2h 6d] [9d]
BasilHayden8: bets $1.03 and is all-in
DWetzel: calls $1.03
*** RIVER *** [Th 2h 6d 9d] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BasilHayden8: shows [9h 9c] (four of a kind, Nines)
DWetzel: mucks hand
BasilHayden8 collected $3.28 from pot
DWetzel said, "wow, nice catch"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.43 | Rake $0.15
Board [Th 2h 6d 9d 9s]
Seat 1: BillyGirl3 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: bigwavdave (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: skeletor33 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Barri Cuda folded before Flop
Seat 5: buduman folded before Flop
Seat 6: BasilHayden8 showed [9h 9c] and won ($3.28) with four of a kind, Nines
Seat 7: DWetzel mucked [Kc Kh]
Seat 8: jmooresy folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Sooner8184 folded before Flop
 
45weykool
      ID: 81151511
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 08:19 		I dont see that as getting sucked out by an "idiot".
You made a pot size bet and he called with a pr of 9's and a possible runner-runner flush and straight draw and he called.

After the turn he made a decent size bet and you called when you might have been looking at a possible straight and it was clear that you were probably behind at that point.

My guess is if you caught an ace on the river he would be posting the hand on a message board somewhere complaining about some "idiot" who called an all in bet when he had trip 9's and you only had 2 outs.

Its all a matter of perspective.
 
46DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 08:43 		My thought was that if he'd hit a straight, then he would have:

a) Minraised before the flop with 87,

b) Called a reraise, and

c) Called a pot sized bet after the flop with an inside straight draw and that's it.

I guess if he had specifically 87h, and chose to raise with it, I was in trouble. Honestly, I thought he might have something like AT, or some sort of flush draw (that obviously didn't connect).

Maybe somewhere around the river I should have thought that maybe he had a set (or quads, haha), with a pocket pair like tens or sixes, but I would expect him to make that bet with a lot of hands that an overpair has beaten.

Then again, that's why I'm playing .01/.02.

(Update for those who care, or especially those that don't: we're up to $35 from $16. Yay. I figure if I can just keep doubling my money once every week, I can turn in my resignation letter in about 8 months, hahaha.)
 
47ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 09:52 		I think his call on the turn was a little loose but can't blame him...with that flop there is probably a good chance his 99 is good without help.
 
48DWetzel from work
      ID: 10932298
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 10:42 		Good point.

Any reason I should be thinking I'm beat here, though? Or is this just "one of those things"?
 
50Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 10:50 		re 39: thanks guys!

No need to be a smartass in this case. Nobody here deserves it. Obviously nobody's had to deal with this problem before. Would a string of "Sorry, can't help" messages have made you feel better? Would it have gotten your cash back?
 
51R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 10:53 		Any reason why you didn't re-raise his pre-flop raise? With KK and AA its far better to be heads up then 3-way, so I'd likely have re-raised again just to make calling a bad proposition for jmoorsey.

You might take down the pot right there, and its also likely that a strong post-flop bet would get more respect. If he's dumb enough to think 99 is good after a preflop raise and re-raise and then a big post-flop bet, then the money is going into the middle no matter what, and it turns into 'just one of those things'. But by just calling, he might've put you on AK or AQ, and thought his 9's were good.
 
52R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 10:55 		Didn't see post 39, but if its about that Full Tilt fraud thing, I'd call their customer support number. E-mail isn't the best way to communicate imho.
 
53DWetzel from work
      ID: 10932298
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 11:48 		Re: 51...

Dealt to DWetzel [Kc Kh]
Barri Cuda: calls $0.02
buduman: calls $0.02
BasilHayden8: raises $0.02 to $0.04
jmooresy said, "i nealy doubled up last night"
DWetzel: raises $0.06 to $0.10


Not enough?
 
54Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 11:58 		It's another 6 cents for him to call into an 18 cent pot. Easy call especially with the other guy calling in front of him. With a re-raise and a caller, I don't quite understand why he was re-re-raising, unless he wanted to set you two up for an all-in move regardless of the flop, but that obviously wasn't the case. But this is the 1/2 cent table, and I haven't quite figured out what most people are thinking at these tables. (Actually, I have: They aren't.)
 
55R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 12:07 		That was fine, I was refering to after Basil re-raised it to 16, and you just called. I'm likely re-raising there to at least .30, maybe more.
 
56R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 12:08 		Well, there's no getting away from the fact that its only pennies. ;)
 
57DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 13:13 		There definitely is the whole 1c/2c problem, yes. However, until someone decides to donate a significant bankroll to me, I'll have to scratch it out this way for a little while, and hoping I'll learn a little bit along the way. Soon, I may move up to the always-intimidating 2c/5c tables. Look out world!
 
58R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 14:29 		Just finished hand that put me on tilt, and I didn't even participate. I usually don't second-guess myself too much, but I was wondering if any of you make this call preflop.

I have pocket 10's in middle position at a .50/1 NL table. (100$ buyin) A guy in early position raises to 4$, and someone else, a reasonably tight/agressive player raises to 10$. I fold, mostly because I figure I'm behind and that the original raiser is someone who could easily re-raise, maybe even all-in. (Loose/Agressive type, but not stupid.) Flop comes J102, they both end up all-in with QQ and KK. Turn/river are blanks, and I would've taken a big pot for just a 10$ call.

I've been going over the logic in my head, and what it comes down to is that my desire to see flops with PP's is contrasting with the obvious need to fold preflop to a 10x bet from someone who rarely makes those bets, and thus probably has me dominated. (He had the KK) Do you easily make the call? Easily fold? Play it differently each time?
 
59biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 14:52 		Raise and re-raise tells you that you likely only have 2 outs pre-flop. You have to look at the implied odds, however. If the A doesn't come on the river, you are probably seeing two all-ins ~200, so you are getting 20-1, which is enough to make the $10 call, if you are pretty confident that's all it will be, which you aren't.

Then you have to worry about pushing with your set, and then 1 of the 4 outs that kill you coming after the flop, but I guess you can't worry too much about that.

Toughie, but if you are confident that the first raiser won't re-raise again, I think it makes some sense to call.

I don't play NL, and I this is a good example of why. It's complicated.

In a flash, you have to figure odds of an A coming on the flop (which means your implied odds go way down), the odds of 10 coming on the flop (which is the only way you are going to win), while not seeing a J-A (which would likely force you to fold, even with a 10).

On second thought, folding was the way to go, I think.
 
60Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 14:56 		You made the right play as did he. If you have a high pocket pair you want to geta H2H match-up.

If you call reraises/large raises with mid to low level pairs often you are going to lose more hands than not, you only really would have had 2 outs in that hand. If you had the KK get cracked by pocket 10's wouldn't you put it down as a bad beat, if you were betting 10x the pot pre-flop?

I often won't call with low PP in a tournament, because it all to often leads to a big loss, at least more often than big win. If I do call I'll limp in and will fold to almost any bet after the flop unless I hit my trips. The problem though is you can just as easily get beaten with someone with higher trips or someone who has straight or flush draws.

You made the right play, banging your head on the wall for a 2-outer isn't going to help.

Just my opinion
 
61rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 14:57 		a) if the last 2 cards came 8-9 you wouldn't be tilting, would you?
b) I make the same lay down
c) You can't look at what did/didn't flop as a basis for 2nd guessing or the next time you fold 7-2 and flop comes 7-7-2, you'll tilt again.

I had a similiar lay down today. I raised early poistion (.50/$1.00) NL to $1.50 in early position with 77. I get a call to my left and the button. Blinds fold. I'm out of position, flop comes Ac-10d-7d. I bet $5.00 and the guy to might right calls quick, button folds. turn is a 2s. I bet $12 and get called quick. River is 6d. I bet $12 again and get re-raised +$90.00. I figured he drew out the flush and I folded. he flipped A-10hearts. (rfs reminds himself this is such a sgame of position).

 
62Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 15:02 		WHy don't we talk about some good books. I have read 2 and they are both good..

Hold em poker for advanced players by sklansky- good but doesn't really discuss no limit

and Tournament NL poker by harrington- Pretty good too.

both talk about different things and both have some differences of opinion..

what books have you read and what do you recommend.

I am thinking of buying tells by caro.
 
63R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 15:44 		Looking at it again:

1) I definitely agree that its a two-outer. If I don't hit a set, I consider any PP to be marginal holdings at best. I'd only continue on an all-under flop vs. 1 opponent that had only raised average preflop. (So a possible AK or AQ) In this case, no ten and I'm folding.

2) I guess it comes down to the implied odds. I'm an 8 to 1 underdog to hit my set, but if I think I'll get more then that if I hit (in this case thats an obvious yes, as one of the raisers will be betting out) then I have to call. That really is the whole reason to call with a PP. The implied odds here say I should've called.

3) The specter of a re-raise from the early raiser is really what made me fold, and in hindsight it was the right play. He easily could've pushed all-in, leaving me with 10$ out there wasted.

So, in formula form: Implied Odds < Possible large re-raise, because the re-raise would make the Implied Odds unfavorable. Even a 1/4 chance of a 50$ re-raise makes my call unprofitable, no? (Sludge-the-statman could probably work out the exact numbers there.)

Thanks for helping me talk that out guys.

-------------------------------------------------

Deadeye, Super System 2 is a great read as well. Doyle teaches a very agressive style that certainly doesn't appeal to every player, but its still worth reading. Its helped me to understand the actions of players who play like he advocates. They don't do it nearly as well of course. ;)

I just received my copy of The Psychology Of Poker by Schoonmaker from the Pokerstars FPP store, and it looks like a great read. Caro's book of tells is another I need to get soon too, although I assume it deals far more with live play then online.

David Sklansky books I've read:

- HE for Advanced Players
- Small Stakes Hold'em (SSHE)
- The Theory of Poker

All worth the time and money to read. TJ Cloutier's Championship Hold'em wasn't as useful, but still decent.
 
64R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 15:48 		You can't look at what did/didn't flop as a basis for 2nd guessing or the next time you fold 7-2 and flop comes 7-7-2, you'll tilt again.

Definitely. I certainly don't second-guess hands like that. I guess I was tilting because part of me thought I should've been in the hand with a hand like 10/10.

I often won't call with low PP in a tournament

Especially in the mid-to-late stages of a tourney, low PP's aren't too valuable unless you move all-in preflop on someone you know only has overcards. The implied odds aren't there to gun for a set, since it usually costs so much to just see the flop.
 
65Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 16:14 		i have super system the first one. I haven't read it yet but i doubt it is as good as the second one.

I have come up with a method that I think will work online and that is to play about 5 tables all at once and fold pretty much 95% of the time... I tried it last night with 5 10 dollar tables and came out with about 110 dollars (NL) 60 dollars ahead in about 2 hours!! I only played AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AQs, Ajs, and once in awhile i would limp in with 67s as a gamble...

it worked out pretty well but i am too loose sometimes so this really tightened me up and then i would play aggressive. I found that with 5 tables the most hands i had action in was 2 at one time...

Not sure if this is a godo strategy for online but it seemed to work, better than just sitting there at one table. It was low stakes so many suckers come and go.
 
66Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 16:21 		oops i mean i would raise with a 67s and i would limp in with an A-xs once inawhile if i wasn't playing any other hands.
 
67Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 16:29 		i don't play a lot in person but i do play with some friends once inawhile and this is what i did:

Which they said was illegal (i thought i read this somewhere that you could do this)

I had AA and the guy went all in and there were like Q 10 J on the board or something...i can't remember. It was jsut me and him playing in the hand. SO i never called and i flipped over my AA because i wanted to see his reaction before i put my money in and he had a said that i had to call because i showed my cards and that it was not legal to play like that. I conceded because no one new the rule and he won with a straight but I am just curious if this is legal.

Does anyone know?

sorry for the multiple posts.
 
68R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 16:46 		If you expose your cards without verbally stating call/fold to an all-in, your cards are as good as mucked and the other guy take the pot. It certainly doesn't force you all-in.
 
69rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 16:49 		It's very legal and is a bona fide strategy to get a read.
 
70R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 17:00 		Serious? I always thought exposed cards were folded.
 
71R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 17:01 		How was Vegas rfs?
 
72beastiemiked
      Leader
      ID: 03531815
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 17:05 		They are not dead in most casinos but there are plenty of stories out there where a player flips over his cards and his hand is considered dead. I would be 100% sure that the casino I'm at considers it "legal".
 
73rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 17:19 		Yes. It's legal. I like to use the tactic of exposing one card and betting on the river (sometimes to bluff, sometimes to trap).

My Vegas trip wasn't as good as yours. Made enough to cover expenses only. MGM was a nice card room, but I ran into som of the tightest tables I have ever played at. No action. I consider myself TAG and I was the guy with the loose table image!

I never got up big or down big. I had 2-3 bad beats for around $100 each and caught a few hands for a couple hundo each.

I also experinced something i had never felt before. I went 4 hours (no lie) and didn't win a hand. I played only 3 hands (seeing flop). Those three hands were 99, JJ, and KK. KK broke my stack ($200) when the big stack at the table flips a 6 high straight and I think my KK is good over the rags (he'd been bullying all day). I saw a long series of 9-4, 7-2, 3,4, etc... I didn't even get to play my blinds!

Quick report: no fish to be found (maybe I need to be there M,T,W for drunk conventioneers?). MGM was nice, Ballys was bad cards, and we checked out Hooters <--- save yourself the trip. Terrible.


 
74R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 17:47 		Thats a shame. Everyday I was at MGM it unbelievably loose, especially from ~6 pm to 2 am. During the late morning/early afternoon, it was pretty tight, but even then I've seen tighter online. By night time though the teenagers and convention-types were at every table. It was pretty easy running over them. I suppose as a TAG its harder to do that. I'm a Loose-Agressive type, so a table full of tightwads is easy to crack anyway.
 
75ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 19:01 		Depends on house rules but typically...In a tournament purposely exposing your cards is an automatic fold of the hand and possibly a timeout penalty...in ring games most places allow this tactic.
 
76ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 19:04 		#58...I probably would have foled the 10s there with the raise and the reraise if I thought there could be another reraise behind me. That is a close call for $10.

But typically I will call raises without the correct odds with any pocket pair preflop especially if I think I am facing a big overpair. The implied odds if you hit your set justify loose preflop calls. Taken many a stack hitting a set vs AA or KK. Typically I want ~15x the bet left in mine and the opponents stack to justify the call.
 
77ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 02, 2006, 19:28 		The risk of a set vs set loss with a small pocket pair...my experience has been it is pretty low...probably only lost that way a handful of times and have doubled my stack in that situation many times. Probably 10 to 1 that you will win if you hit your set...I will slow down facing an obvious flush or straight though but will rarely fold a set unless the board is 4 suited or 4 to a straight.

Last night I had pocket 9s and called a 20 raise (2-4NL)...typical maybe a little high raise...a smallish stack went all-in behind me for $80 and the original raiser went all-in...folded and the flop came A-9-x...glad the small stack was there because the original raiser did have AA...would have definitely went broke.

Had another fun hand a little later in the evening...busted an Ace high flush with a straight flush.
 
78ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 13:39 		"High Stakes Poker" on tonight on GSN...9-11 eastern...best poker on TV IMO...
 
79ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 13:44 		Got my ass handed to me this weekend...Saturday feel like I am playing very disciplined and then take two sick beats...KK vs AK...all-in preflop...of course river is an Ace. Then AK vs AQ...ace on the flop...both all-in...two running clubs gives him a flush and beats me. Sunday...start the day off tilted and blow through a little bit...quit and then start playing later in the evening...feel like I am back playing well only to get in some very bad spots losing a couple big pots with fullhouses to bigger fullhouses.

Back to .50-1.00 NL for awhile so I can rebuild the bankroll.
 
80DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 14:38 		Ouch.

One advantage of having basically no money: you can't lose much.
 
81Davis
      ID: 42735218
      Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 17:38 		Guys I'm looking into playing some blackjack online, i've fared better with it in casinos than holdem

wondering if you guys played or if you knew the best/most reliable sites for Blackjack online
and if the online game is any different than casino

thanks

davis
 
82RebelFan42
      ID: 2723389
      Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 18:04 		Check out http://wizardofodds.com/ he breaks down a number of online websites which either are good or questionable. Pretty good website all in all
 
83biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 18:29 		I second that emotion. The website rocks for blackjack.

If you spend the time poking around, I think he even points you to the sites with the smallest house edge.

Also make sure to use the site to play perfect blackjack.

One thing about blackjack, however, is that even playing perfect, there is no way to win in the long run. You will simply lose slower.

Live, you can count cards and get a very slight edge, but it takes research, practice, hard work and concentration at the table, and a large bankroll. And after all that, they can just toss you out if they think your counting.
 
84swami
      ID: 27230818
      Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 20:53 		Any thoughts on this one from the peanut gallery? I simply thought I had the best hand. He had me covered and had pushed me off a pot earlier in the tourney. I thought he was repeating this move.

PokerStars Game #4290054495: Tournament #21184573, Hold'em No Limit -
Level VI (100/200) - 2006/03/14 - 20:34:25 (ET)
Table '21184573 20' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: B Town Poker (5525 in chips)
Seat 2: trble44 (7692 in chips)
Seat 3: jazzboken (5991 in chips)
Seat 4: Roggybogey (8165 in chips)
Seat 5: DaSwam (2735 in chips)
Seat 6: Ebayfan1212 (5969 in chips)
Seat 7: clot1968 (3455 in chips)
Seat 8: TRAWICK (5510 in chips)
Seat 9: B.WILL (530 in chips) is sitting out
DaSwam: posts small blind 100
Ebayfan1212: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [2s Ts]
clot1968: folds
TRAWICK: folds
B.WILL: folds
B Town Poker: calls 200
trble44: calls 200
jazzboken is connected
jazzboken: folds
Roggybogey: folds
DaSwam: calls 100
Ebayfan1212: checks
*** FLOP *** [2h 2c 5h]
DaSwam: bets 400
Ebayfan1212: raises 1200 to 1600
B Town Poker: folds
trble44: folds
DaSwam: raises 935 to 2535 and is all-in
Ebayfan1212: calls 935
DaSwam said, "damn"
*** TURN *** [2h 2c 5h] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [2h 2c 5h 6h] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DaSwam: shows [2s Ts] (three of a kind, Deuces)
Ebayfan1212: shows [2d Js] (three of a kind, Deuces - Jack kicker)
Ebayfan1212 collected 5870 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5870 | Rake 0
Board [2h 2c 5h 6h 9s]
Seat 1: B Town Poker folded on the Flop
Seat 2: trble44 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: jazzboken folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Roggybogey (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: DaSwam (small blind) showed [2s Ts] and lost with three of a
kind, Deuces
Seat 6: Ebayfan1212 (big blind) showed [2d Js] and won (5870) with
three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 7: clot1968 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: TRAWICK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: B.WILL folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
85beastiemiked
      ID: 12043123
      Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 21:25 		Fold preflop. Other than that it looks fine.
 
86Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Wed, Mar 15, 2006, 11:34 		I wouldn't have called the big blind. You probably should have bet more after the flop, granted you would have been called and raised anyway, but the pot was 800 when you bet 400 and the minimum bet was 200. Without knowing the exact situation in a tourney, were you trying to hang on for a seat in the money, other wise I think you go all-in here.
 
87swami
      ID: 75542011
      Wed, Mar 15, 2006, 17:22 		Why wouldn't you see a flop for 1/2BB?

Any greater chance he folds to an all-in by me on the flop? I don't know if I would if I had the opponent covered almost 2-1 and had flopped trips.
 
88ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Wed, Mar 15, 2006, 17:28 		once that flop came you were dead...neither of you would fold no matter who bet what/when.

that is just the risk of playing poor starting hands...sometimes they pay off...if you hit that same hand and he slow played a big pair or something...sometimes they put you in impossible spots to get away from.

Only you win that hand is to raise instead of limping preflop.
 
89RebelFan42
      ID: 2723389
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 02:14 		Going back to the wizard of odds website, the guy who developed it is an interesting gent. Durning my time at unlv he taught a mathmatics of casino gaming class, man was that thing complex, but also oh so imformative. Never would have thought if two people played roulette and one bet on number three the whole time, and the other bet on black the whole time, statisticly they would both lose exactly the same amount of money. But the guy sure knows what he is talking about, most of those house edge numbers he has memorized, and can compute in under a minute.
 
90Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 10:18 		Should I of FOLDED???

6 Players

I was Big Blind and he was Dealer

My cards were

A6 Offsuit

I call 2 dollars to play the hand
4 players:

The FLop

A 5 5

I bet 6 everyone folds but the dealer.

The next card

A 5 5 7 Rainbow no flush

I check he raises 6 dollars and I reraise 6 dollars

River
A 5 5 7 9

I check and he bets 26 dollars!!!

I think about it for a minute and FOLD.

Pissed me off.

 
91beastiemiked
      Leader
      ID: 03531815
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 10:43 		Easy fold, unless the guy was a complete idiot there's no way you are ahead.
 
92leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 11:04 		I wouldn't say the bettor was ahead...

The check raise on the turn probably scared him, but then you checked again on the river. If you check raise on the turn, and he calls, you probably need to come out firing on the river as well. Like him, I would of semi-bluffed as well after you check to me on the river if I had a pair of 9's or 7's. If he honestly had three fives, he probably would try to suck you into a callable bet by betting $10-$15.
 
93R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 11:06 		Why play ace-rag offsuit at all? That is exactly the type of situation where it sucks... leaving you with top pair and putting money in the pot, and still likely behind. You were in the BB and had to call a raise to see the flop, was the raise from this guy? If not, he still called a raise to see the flop... was he a loose-passive/agressive player who would do that with anything, or a tight-passive/agressive type who would only do that with a solid hand? (Like A10 and up?)

In ring games A-rag is junk, and the rare times that I play it I'm hoping to flop two pair or trips to my undercard. Which are both big longshots, and why I don't play A-rag at all. ;)
 
94Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 11:42 		My bad.. I just called. There was no extra money in because i was big blind.. With 3 players I figured he didn't have an ace.
 
95Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 11:43 		I figured he might of had AA.
 
96Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 11:46 		I didn't want to come out firing after the river card because I figured he was scared that i had a 5 or at least cards equal to him. However, he may of had an ace as well and thought that I did so he just put in 26 to scare me off, i suppose i should of just bet another 6 dollars on the river and see what he would of done.

 
97ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 12:18 		You were likely behind the entire way...A-rag is a terrible hand and will get you into more trouble...typically you will win a small pot with that hand or lose a big pot.

If you are in the BB...no problem with a limp but any other place when deciding to call you should really think: "am I willing to raise with this hand? no = fold" ...now that is not always the case, sometimes you should just call but for the most part if you are not willing to reraise just dump the hand especially if looks likely you will be facing one other opponent.
 
98ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 12:22 		Headed to a casino this weekend (Trump Gary, Indiana)...will be the first time I have played poker in a casino in like 5 years and I really did not know what I was dong back then.

Plan on playing 2-5 or 5-10 NLHE. Kind of excited...hopefully it will be a positive experience. Trip report will follow.
 
99Khahan
      ID: 411211610
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 13:47 		Avid amateur poker fan/player here. Been semi-following this thread and thought I would throw out my own scenario.

5 players.

I've got QD 10S and am last to act before small blind. At this point the player to my left folded. The first to act called (10). Potentially 2 other players in. I call, sb and bb call.

I'll be last to act after the flop.

Flop:
8S 2D KD

I'm up and 2 people still in for 10. Even if I pair a Q or 10, I may not have high pair. But i'm chasing a flush or straight. Do you fold raise or call?

I raised by 15. 1 person folded, 1 stayed in.

Turn is JH (8S 2D KD). All flushes are gone but I have 2 shots at a straight (A or 9). 1st to act puts out 10. I could all in (probably only way to definitely chase him out...but then I get nothing else from him and believe at this point he has nothing), or I could call. Do you call or go all in (simple raise won't chase him out).

I called.

Last card flips and its 9H (8S 2D KD JH). He drops 10 I raise 15 and re-raises another 20!

There are no flush possibilities and no full house possibilities. Best he can have is 3oK or Straight.

I call. He's got K 2.

My question: Did I act properly between the flop and the turn? Even though I won this hand, I'm not sure staying in was 'proper' given I was chasing....
 
100Dec
      ID: 200262011
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 14:31 		The betting numbers (10-15-20) are strange. Anyways, after the flop you had nothing, you raise the initial bet, I would have got out of the hand now, but you have position so why not.

On the turn, you got it cheap $10, you have open draw for the nuts, the call is correct.

On the river, you caught your runner-runner miracle, you have the nuts and you call the re-raise? I think you miss a final bet here.
 
101biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 14:46 		Not knowing your opponent, but given that he bet into you after the flop, you have to assume he has at least top pair.

You, on the other hand, have two backdoor draws - maybe worth 2 outs.

You're last to act and your getting, what, 6-1 on your call, around 3-1 on your raise?

Regardless, unless you are confident that you have a good chance to bluff and take the pot right there, it wasn't a good call and it was a worse raise, as you have less than a 10% chance of going river-river and catching one of your draws.

Once you catch your open ender on the turn, however, you have sufficient pot-odds to remain in the hand.

If I were K2, I'd be a bit annoyed at you not folding on the flop with little more than a wing and a prayer.
 
102ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 17:10 		I would say either fold or raise preflop...most likely fold as Q-10 is weak...after the flop you really have nothing...when you need two cards to make a draw I would not really even consider it a draw. Chasing miracle - miracle draws is a good way to go broke...sure you might catch it once in a great while but it will not pay to chase it in the long run.

The best piece of advice I would give any beginning player is to play tight preflop...wait for premium cards...but when you get a good hand play very aggressively.

Someone posted this in another forum I frequent and it is good advice: "Always play your best and select good games. Study your opponents, play tight, don't chase, wait for good hands then get aggressive and value bet
the hell out of them."
 
103Khahan
      ID: 411211610
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 17:47 		Regardless, unless you are confident that you have a good chance to bluff and take the pot right there,

That's what I was looking at. The guys in were pretty conservative players. Both had folded often to raises throughout the evening. I guess at that point if I'm looking to just steal the pot, I should go all in or make a more significant raise (though most raises were only by 5...we don't use the rule that raises must be equal to the bb).

I guess its worth noting that I had the big stack (adding together the stacks of boths guys who were in, I would still have them by a significant amount) and I was trying to push my stack around.

But, if I want to play over the net or at a casino where I don't know the other players at the table, I just fold. If I want to bet though, is this an all in or nothing bet to try and force the bluff?
 
104R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 17:49 		Any reason why you didn't re-raise the river? Gotta push when you have the nuts.
 
105R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 17:56 		For many, a solid re-raise looks more dangerous than an all-in. An all-in is trying to show strength, but in truth can show weakness. Afterall, if you have a very strong hand, why would you move all-in and scare off all your opponents? Thus, an all-in often looks like the bluff your trying to make, and almost certainly gets called here by the K2.

On the other hand, a solid re-raise looks like a strong hand, AND looks like you're trying to get value. (Or protect your big hand against a weak draw.)

I often see weak players sit down with 30-40$ at the 200 NL table, and go all-in post-flop into a pot of only 5-10$. More often then not when they get called by someone with top pair (or even middle pair) the weak player is holding nothing. The all-in is to try to scare people off, but quite often it can display weakness.
 
106Khahan
      ID: 411211610
      Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 18:00 		Any reason why you didn't re-raise the river? Gotta push when you have the nuts.

I was tired? It was pretty late in the game and I simply missed the obvious, just happy to have the money thrown into the pot, I took what he gave me.

Thanks for post 105. Very helpful with this situation.
 
107DWetzel at library
      ID: 332381712
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 13:44 		Well, doing rather well overall.. my initial $16 is up to about $110 right now. I'm pretty happy with that for basically 4 weeks of play.

Had a very fun Stud Hi/Lo (my new favorite game) hand last night... had quad 4s by 4th street, and everyone was betting/raising away. We ended up with over a $13 pot playing .10/.20 limits (I split with someone getting the low). Also found out what happens when 7 people get to the river, which was interesting (even if I was freaked out enough by it to not keep raising at the end). ;)

I'll have the hand history sent to me and post it tonight. Should be fodder for amusement.
 
108ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 14:04 		community card...
 
109wiggs
      ID: 20291713
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 14:27 		I had a interesting hand last night at the turning stone casino.

I have about 330 dollars in chips, (cash game. There are 10 players, 1 2 no limit table. I am in the big blind I get dealt A7 of clubs. There are 5 callers and I check- 6 total players. Flop comes out AK7 rainbow. I lead out with 10 dollars, knowing I would be called because this is a loose table. I get 4 callers and a lady with about 300 chips raises to 30, I reraise to 60 and everyone folds except her. She goes all in for an 205 on top. What do you do if you are me? I will tell you how it went down later, just wanted to see if you think i did it right.
 
110biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 14:31 		It's solely how well you read her.

Since she only called pre-flop, that would typically mean she probably doesn't have AA, KK or AK. 77 would be the big worry, but pretty unlikely given you have one. A would maybe put her on K7.
 
111wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 17:41 		bili, that was exactly what I put her on. Turned out she had kings and i lost everything on 1 bad hand. Still pretty angry about that one. 2 hands later she went all in for 520 dollars with 10 5 offsuit and was called and lost it all back to my buddy. Why couldnt she have 10 5 when I have 2 pair?
 
112biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 17:56 		Bummer.

I don't play no limit, but I would guess you see a lot more limping pre-flop with monsters for this precise reason. I do it in tournies sometimes.
 
113R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 20:19 		At a loose table, if I know my preflop raise will be called by 5-6 people anyway (even if its as much as 5 or 6x) I'll usually play my QQ, KK or AA as if it was any other PP. No set, no bet, unless I can continue for cheap. The whole point of a raise pre-flop with those hands is to end up heads up with someone, so if thats not going to work and your one pair on the flop will be against 5 other hands, why bother? By limping you can throw it away cheap when you miss, and get paid in a big way when you hit. Mostly because the table is loose, but also because nobody puts you on a monster set.

-------------------------------------------------

Crappy hand for me last night at the 200 NL tables. I had KK on the button, everyone folds to me. I raise it to 5x, expecting to just take the blinds from the two rocks beside me. The BB re-raises it to 10x. From other types of players it might not have seemed too scary, but this guy played a whopping 5% of his cards preflop according to pokertracker. (Based on over 400 hands, a solid sample size.) So I just called, fearing the AA this rock would probably need to re-raise here.

Flop comes out K95. W00t! He comes out firing for 50$ (pot is ~ 20$), and I re-raise it to 100$. He only has 70$ left but for some reason only calls, keeping his 20$ in his stack. Turn is an ugly, ugly Ace, and he quickly throws his last 20$ in. Bah. :( I'm cursing even before I call.

And because he's a rock, he proceeds to sit there for another two hours, folding almost everything. Against a maniac I always know I have a chance to get my chips back, but a rock? Not gonna happen. :(
 
114R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 23:11 		#Game No : 28968131
***** Pacific Hand History for Game 28968131*****
$1/$2 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 03 17 22:52:02 2006
Table Gorilla Sweat (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 10: leblanc1 ( $324.04 )
Seat 1: trsalpha ( $68.3 )
Seat 2: RNiner ( $570.2 )
Seat 3: al37 ( $200 )
Seat 5: Leeeski ( $230.6 )
Seat 6: duchvstr ( $198 )
Seat 7: thnxalot ( $176.85 )
Seat 8: DHeise72 ( $94 )
duchvstr posts small blind [$1].
thnxalot posts big blind [$2].
al37 posts dead blind [$1].
al37 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RNiner [ Ks Ad ]
DHeise72 folds.
leblanc1 calls [$2].
trsalpha calls [$2].
RNiner raises [$10].
al37 calls [$8].
Leeeski folds.
duchvstr folds.
thnxalot calls [$8].
trsalpha calls [$8].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, Kd, 7h ]
thnxalot checks.
trsalpha checks.
RNiner bets [$20].
al37 raises [$40].
thnxalot calls [$40].
trsalpha calls [$40].
RNiner raises [$100].
al37 calls [$80].
thnxalot raises [$126.85].
trsalpha calls [$18.3].
RNiner calls [$46.85].
al37 calls [$46.85].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
RNiner bets [$23].
al37 calls [$22.15].
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
** Summary **
leblanc1 shows [ 10c 9d ].
trsalpha shows [ 9h Jh ].
RNiner shows [ Ks Ad ].
al37 shows [ 3h Ah ].
Leeeski shows [ 4c 8h ].
duchvstr shows [ 3s Qd ].
thnxalot shows [ 10d Kc ].
DHeise72 shows [ 7d 8s ].
RNiner shows [ Ks Ad ].
RNiner collected [$273.2].
RNiner collected [$325.65].
RNiner collected [$44.3].
RNiner collected [$0.85].

Serves them right for calling a raise preflop with K10os, A3s and J9s. ;) Helps obviously that the flush draws had 2 of each other's outs.
 
115ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Sun, Mar 19, 2006, 15:52 		Played my first live casino poker in like 6 years last night. Played 2-5 NL 200max buyin. Did alright and doubled my buyin. The rake was a $7 fee every half hour.

Ended up playing a lot tighter than I normally do online. Just trying to adjust to the live game...I could tell the table was recognizing I was playing like a rock and was adjusting to me so I did manage to start pushing some people off hands later in the evening. Felt like I made a couple mistakes early...had a loose player raise $50 preflop when I had 10-10 on the button...I called along with another player. Flop came 4-4-2...The preflop raiser led out with $100...thought a long time and ended up folding...knew I should have called but I had just sat down and did not have a full read on the player yet...I think online I would have pushed in and I should of in this case because he showed 6-7 suited...so I had him crushed and he said he would have called an all-in. Lost another big pot with 5h-8h on an all heart flop...bet the whole way but another player was sitting with Jh-2h...he almost folded at the end but made the call saying he knew he was beat.

Made another mistake when I woke up with AA in the big blind...raise(15) and a reraise(30) before it got to me...I looked at the raisers stacks and I didn't think they had much left so I just pushed in...did not realize the one guy had a stack of green kind of hidden...he thought a long time and folded two Ks face up...that would have been a great opportunity to double...if I would have known he had a couple hundred hidden I would have just reraised 60...oh well...took the pot down without risking anything.

My best hands were aces full vs a flush...and a my last two hands of the evening when I was dealt back to back AK...and got a K on each flop...once vs KQ and another vs JJ.

By the end of the night I felt pretty comfortable and think I could make regular money at this level at this casino...lot of poor players making goofy moves...I really did not feel like I was catching great cards...there was a lot of money to be made if I would have caught a few more good hands. A lot of people were making big moves on draws and other hands where they were behind...just a matter of waiting for a big hand and letting someone bet into you.

The poker room was nice...~20 tables...pretty much packed all night. No wait. Biggest game spread was 5-10 NL...and some larger limit games...
 
116biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 16:13 		Played 2-5 NL 200max buyin

Interesting. So no-limit really isn't no limit, it's 200 bucks?

I guess I could play it, if that were the case. There aren't any NL games around these parts. I think state law precludes any individual bet being $25 or more.

There is, however, a game on the res about 20 minutes north.

If it's pretty close to the only game in town, would I expect it to be loose or tight?
 
119ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 16:37 		It is real NL...just a max buy-in of $200...by the end of the night I had $600 in front of me and I could bet it all in one hand/bet if I chose to...there was a pot or two where ~$1000 changed hands. Typically NL games have a max/min buyin unless it is very high limit...don't really want someone sitting down with 10K in a 2-5 blind NL game as most people would get up as they don't want to play vs that large a stack...there were a few poeple with $1000+ sitting in front of them at times during the night.

I would say in most cases lower limit and NL holdem games are loose...but it depends on the table and the players.
 
120R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 21:09 		The max buyin really decides what kind of game its going to be. I played 2/5 NL at Bellagio and 1/2 NL at MGM, but both were 200 max buyin. Thus, both games had the same 'risk' factor to it (I.E. 200$) and the preflop raises and such were similar given that both games used 5$ chips and 1$ chips. Since both games were very loose and blind stealing was unneccessary (and not very likely to succeed) I didn't find much difference at all between the two.

The MGM 2/5 NL game had a 500 max buyin, and thus was a ton more different then the Bellagio 2/5 NL.

Sounds like you had a fun trip TRS. I too found that the live tables were more loose/weak then the online ones I play at. I attribute that to the fact that 1/2 NL (or 2/5 NL at Bellagio) is the lowest limit at the live casinos, while 1/2 NL online is about 5-10 levels ahead of the lowest at most sites. If you assume the rookies will usually start at the lowest level, that means 1/2 live and .05/.10 online...
 
121swami
      ID: 60391022
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 21:43 		This one gave me a laugh. Only cost me $.05 since the guy with the 6 high straight went all in. Anyone else besides me think I was nuts for calling both of them?

PokerStars Game #4358377178: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) -
2006/03/20 - 21:35:28 (ET)
Table 'Thalpius IV' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: SAGE1975 ($1.93 in chips)
Seat 2: Big Uno ($1.96 in chips)
Seat 3: Edd60 ($2.70 in chips)
Seat 4: anthont123 ($1.87 in chips)
Seat 6: ASH'S ACES ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 7: OPE11 ($3.64 in chips)
Seat 8: DaSwam ($2.10 in chips)
Seat 9: CIGARDOG ($1.98 in chips)
anthont123: posts small blind $0.01
ASH'S ACES: posts big blind $0.02
DaSwam: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [5c 5h]
OPE11: folds
jakeripper71 leaves the table
DaSwam: raises $0.06 to $0.08
CIGARDOG: calls $0.08
SAGE1975: folds
Big Uno: calls $0.08
Edd60: folds
anthont123: folds
NewportSmoov joins the table at seat #5
ASH'S ACES: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [5s 4s 3h]
anthont123 leaves the table
ASH'S ACES: checks
AceManClub joins the table at seat #4
DaSwam: bets $0.12
CIGARDOG: folds
Big Uno: calls $0.12
ASH'S ACES: calls $0.12
*** TURN *** [5s 4s 3h] [3s]
ASH'S ACES: checks
DaSwam: checks
Big Uno: checks
*** RIVER *** [5s 4s 3h 3s] [2s]
ASH'S ACES: bets $0.06
DaSwam: calls $0.06
Big Uno: raises $1.70 to $1.76 and is all-in
ASH'S ACES: calls $0.72 and is all-in
DaSwam: calls $1.70
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Big Uno: shows [Jh 6h] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
DaSwam: shows [5c 5h] (a full house, Fives full of Threes)
DaSwam collected $1.91 from side pot
ASH'S ACES: shows [8h As] (a straight flush, Ace to Five)
ASH'S ACES collected $2.88 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.99 Main pot $2.88. Side pot $1.91. | Rake $0.20
Board [5s 4s 3h 3s 2s]
Seat 2: Big Uno showed [Jh 6h] and lost with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 6: ASH'S ACES (big blind) showed [8h As] and won ($2.88) with a
straight flush, Ace to Five
Seat 7: OPE11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: DaSwam showed [5c 5h] and won ($1.91) with a full house, Fives
full of Threes
 
122ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 22:31 		It is so hard for me to judge hands playing for $2...first thought I would say of course you have to call. Now if you take away the decimal and added a few zeros to the dollar amounts that hand gets very interesting and you would have to seriously consider folding with the straight flush so possible.
 
123biliruben
      ID: 531202411
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 23:17 		Shouldn't have checked the turn. Push and you lose the As, I would think.
 
124DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 23:28 		$2 game? You're in my world now. ;)

I would have called them both, every time. You get idiots that push with a lonely 6 in that game (or worse, like A5 offsuit)... odds were decent you could have had two of them instead of one. Or, someone playing an overpair with a spade could have thought they got lucky.

(Well, OK, I would have been betting the turn--it's not like people are smart enough to figure out that a flush/straight draw is no good on a paired board at this level.)
 
125swami
      ID: 75542011
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 13:54 		My thinking was that there is no way they saw the potential full boat on the board. I thought someone would overbet the flush or flush draw on the turn, but they all checked. I was hoping someone would make a hand on the river, but not that hand!

I shouldn't have given them that much credit. After looking back on this one, they probably and wouldn't have folded to a 1/2 pot or full pot bet anyway. Anything more than that looks like a huge overbet, right?
 
126Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 15:35 		i play no limit online and I play about 4 tables.

I usually play the .50/1.00 tables or less and I have made quite a litlte bit of money on it.

I start off small at 10 dollars per table and I go all in whenever i think i have the best hand. The more you go all in the more people call. By the end of the first half hour i am usually sitting at about 40 dollars at each table because people are calling my all ins with High pair and even less!!

however, when i reach 40 i usually try to start over at a different table or I tighten up big time and rarely do all ins after that....

You gotta love all-in because you can make money fast if you know what you are doing. However, the more money in the pot the more likely you are to lose your all in... Hence that is why i start off as small as possible!!! It's fun.
 
127R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 16:22 		You keeping a spreadhseet Deadeye? I would love to know how your strategy works for you in the long run.

I see lots of people playing like that with small stacks, and I love seeing it. ;) More often then not these guys go broke quickly by moving all-in at an unfavorable position, or go broke by playing properly but getting blinded off.

At a 200 NL table, a person who buys in with 20$ and moves all-in is doing the same thing as someone who just raises to 20$. While he is limiting how much he can lose on the hand, he's also limiting his ability to win the hand. When I raise 5x the BB with AA (to 10$) I have a stack to bet with post-flop, which means I have muscle. I can push out a flush draw or straight draw by betting the pot (or more). If I just put 20$ in preflop and 'hope for the best', they're drawing for free.
 
128rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 18:16 		Deadeye,

What is your screen name on Absolute Poker? I play every night on the $0.50/$1 NL tables.

I, too, see people starting with small stacks. But, I think there is something wrong with your math. You can't bring ONLY $10 to a $.50/$1 NL table. The min/max buy ins are $40/$200

 
129DE
      ID: 372322117
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 18:41 		i am on hollywood poker....
My bad on my math.. It's the .25/.50 table that i like to start off at. The way it works is pretty simple actually...

i only play the hands I am confident i am winning. Not all-in right away unless of course i have AK or better. Bluff a couple times, show your cards, then go all in on a hand where you are ahead on the flop even high pair. Many guys will call and you double your money.. Do this 2 times per table and you are up to 40ish dollars. Sometimes you lose the 10 and have to start over but overall it works out pretty well.
I just started to do this and started out on the .10/.20 tables where it is even easier to do starting at 2 dollars. It's not safe but if you play it right i think in the long run you can win. You just have to get good at it. OF course once i get up to a large amount of chips I stop playing like that and just play normal..

I find playing at a table of 5 works best because the hands are not ever as good.

About 3 nights ago i started off at about 5 dollars per table of 4 tables and ended up with about 45 at one, 28, 60, and around 10 at the other in the first half hour.. I think i busted 2 or 3 times total.

It's not poker it's gambling. It's a system that has worked so far in the short run.
 
130 Dedey14
      ID: 390142811
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 18:43 		First time poster here but I've frequently browse this thread. Since I from L.A., I usually visit the Commerce Casino about twice a week. Humungous poker room w/ all kinds of games. I usually play the 2/3 $100 buy in NL game. Just wanted to know if there's anyone here from L.A. that plays at Commerece or the other card clubs in the area.
 
131DE
      ID: 372322117
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 18:43 		Spreadsheet??? Please tell me how you keep a spreadsheet of each hand?
 
132R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, Mar 21, 2006, 19:46 		I don't keep one of every hand, but I do keep an entry for each session. I have columns of:

A) Table type and blinds (NL 200 1/2)
B) Buyin
C) Cashout
D) Profit/Loss
E) Time Started
F) Time Finished
G) Time Played

When I buyin to a table I fill in columns A, B and E. When I cashout I fill in C and F, and columns D and G are completed automatically by Excel using formulas.

Then I can sum every column and work out my total profit, total profit per session, per hour, per table type, etc. I'd love to see how your strategy works in the longrun.

At first glance, I'd say you're playing a smart Tight/Agressive style, that would work with whatever your starting stack size is. Your success likely isn't based on your small stack size as it is the TA style you employ. However, if its working for you there's no real reason to change things up.
 
133DE
      ID: 372322117
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 08:09 		Well that's probably a smart thing to do!
I'll have to set up 2 types then becuase I usually only do this strategy until I run out of tables and I cash out after each big hit.

I'll let you know. BEsides I only play this way at the cheap tables, because players are more likely to jump in with nothing.
 
134Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 11:47 		PS.
Screen name = 99maverik99
 
135 DWetzel from work
      ID: 10932298
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 11:50 		R9 (and TRS),

Would you mind emailing me a copy of the spreadsheet you use to track game results? I have a really rudimentary one (read: crap), but something better would be smart.
 
136Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 12:09 		I am kind of interested!!

R9 do you cash out everytime you play? I used to do that was more methodical and I definitely had a nice winning streak!! IE i was mastering 5 person tourneys and making some cash and would cash out. Eventually I just started to not cash out and I would find myself in playing the 50 dollar buy ins and ended up losing at most of what i won! Cash games I just leave my money in the site but I realize that even though I am winning i usually will go off the path and take some dumb risks. Like the ohter day i was playing 2/4 tables and was doing well until I busted a big hand..

I don't know, maybe a spreadsheet would help to secure my dumb moves here and there.
 
137ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 13:00 		DWetzel...sent you a spreadsheet.

Deadeye...I don't know if a spreadsheet would really help you with your issue. It is really just a matter of self control and bankroll management. It is probably the most common problem gamblers have...playing in games where they do not belong...chasing losses...taking risks...kind of the nature of the animal. I surely struggle with it myself at times...though I have never lost my bankroll...have come close.
 
138Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 13:08 		my problem is this. I usually get WAY up. I mean I have been up 500 in a night and then I'd get a bit careless and go for higher end tables. Definitely self control must be a major problem of mine. Hey I am glad that I am not the only one. It's important to set limits.
 
139biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 13:12 		Limits? Bah.

That's what Home Equity Loans are for.

Just think of your third bedroom as your bankroll.

Fortunately I only have a two-bedroom place, so I have to be a bit more cautious.
 
140R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 22, 2006, 23:37 		I made the mistake of jumping limits too soon back in late December. Went from 100 NL to 200 NL with only 1000$, after seeing how juicy the 200 tables were. I played way too cautious because I only had 5 buyins. I broke even for about 3 weeks before returning to NL 100, where I eventually earned a good enough br to jump to 200 NL for good in early March.

When you play at the higher limits without a sufficient br, you just end up playing scared and waiting for the nuts. That kind of tight/passive game can be a longterm winner, but not a very big one. Far better to play tight/agressive at a limit you can afford. If pushing all-in with an overpair vs. a loose cannon seems at all too dangerous to you, you're probably playing too high a game. Gotta be willing to toss your stack in there in favorable situations, and accept the times you lose it without tilting. And if you lose 1/5th of your bankroll when your QQ gets busted by a flush draw, well... I know I'd have a hard time not tilting.

DWetzel, TRS's sheet is solid, so that'll probably be fine for you. Let me know if you want mine anyway.

Anyone have a good book to recommend for playing short-handed games? (6 or less people?) A few of books have reffered to it occasionally, but never really got in depth in a way that I'd like. SH play is definitely one of my weaknesses. I see lots of juicy 200 NL 6-handed games at Pacific, but know I'm not solid enough with that format yet to jump in.
 
141FRICK
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 00:43 		I just busted of out a $3 with re-buys on PokerStars. I had a larger stack, 25th out of 145 and I realized that I had to get some sleep. I end up going all-in with KJos. I get 2 callers, both with similar stacks. Flop comes up K8J, turns a 4 and the river is a 10, giving one of the callers trip 10s. He is now the chip leader by a 3-1 margin over 2nd place. First place in the tourney was paying about 5k.

I will admit that I shouldn't have been in the hand, but I wanted get to sleep, but a 2-outer. Someone else at the table claimed they folded AQ. Oh well, I still won $35 for a $3 buy-in.
 
142Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 09:06 		i only play the shorthanded tables. You just get to play more hands, but you have to be a lot more cautious when it comes to lower cards flopping.
 
143Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 09:07 		can anyone recommend a good web site where people talk about poker?
 
144beastiemiked
      Leader
      ID: 03531815
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 09:10 		twoplustwo

Active forums for all types of games(shorthanded, Omaha, stud, single table tourney's, etc).
 
145rockafellerskank
      ID: 49136120
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 09:34 		the pokerforum.com
 
146Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 09:35 		Thanks. That is what i am talking about!
 
147Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Mar 24, 2006, 09:06 		do you guys ever set traps.

I have been making bets 4 to 5 times the blind when in a favorable position with weak hands...

and when players call and i get the crap cards to show up and sometimes get a 2 pair.. i'll go all in and get called. doubled my money from 20 to about 100 in an hour last night trying it. Seemed to work.. I get players to make all sort of crazy bets.
 
148Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Mar 24, 2006, 09:08 		i especially like to bet with suited cards like

5 7 or 6 8.. I have been showing my weak hands a lot more frequently then coming up with AA and doubling my money as well.
 
149kev
      Donor
      ID: 43111845
      Fri, Mar 24, 2006, 18:25 		I think most people here, as well as me, will play the button aggresively with weaker cards, if the situation deems it favorable. If both blinds are tight, you can steal the blinds. If the blinds are loose, you could get raised...that's what I find at least. Most of these guys are more experienced than me though.
 
150ChicagoTRS
      ID: 150452015
      Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 10:11 		Book Review: Finished reading Barry Greensteins "Ace on the River". Book really did not offer much...the biographical information was interesting. There was little to no poker information. The poker information consisted of a few key hands from tournaments Barry was in...interesting reading his thought pattern on the hands but really did not offer much. Book is not recommended...putting it up on ebay. Best I can say for the book is there are some nice pictures.
 
151Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 09:01 		poker is an odd game. I was up a lot but then lost most of it the last 2 weeks. I am wondering if i am playing differently than before. does this happen to you guys?
 
152Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 09:16 		I would say that most players go through those types of swings. That is one of the reasons to track your winnings, it helps you analyze those swings and see if your betting habits have changed.

I will also note that playing the hands that you mentioned above, 86 suited for example, are hands that you will, IMO, lose money on in the long run. Unless you hit a great flop, full house, you have to be worried about someone having a higher flush, higher straight, or higher pair.

Again just my opinion.
 
153Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 09:44 		just the other day i had

67 suited and i raised about 1.50 where the BB was .25

and the flop was 6d 6 5d

then i bet 4 dollars

the guy calls and i can't remember the card but it was like a 10 of clubs or something

then I bet another 4 dolalrs and the guy calls.

the next card is a diamond and he bets a dollar and i have like 10 dollars left so i go all in..

He has a Kd9d...

ridiculous.
 
154Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 09:48 		what made me most mad though was this play..
I have AA and i bet about 1.50 and someone calls with KJ

the flop was ridiculous like 4 5 K rainbow

he checks. I bet 5 dollars

he calls and the turn is a 9

I bet again 5 dollars and he goes all in.. he'd been going all in all the time so of course i call..
he flips over KJ and i have AA.
A J hits on the river and i lost about 50 dollars. Ridiculous.
 
155Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 10:38 		153 - I wouldn't have bet 1.5 into a .25 pot with 67 suited, limped in maybe, because you want to see the flop cheap witht that hand IMO. Granted I play mostly tournaments at the moment, so the theory is a little different. Your bet after the flop probably looked like a move to buy the pot to the other player, especially if you had been playing this aggressively. After the river you have to be worried about the flush as well as someone having a full house, without knowing the last card there could also be straight possabilities to worry about.

As for 154, if your betting habits are loose like you described in 153, no bet is going to really scare the KJ hand, he has probably thinks he has you beat after the flop.


Here's my cracked AA story from last night. I'm in a $10 buy-in 45 seat tourney. The blinds are 100-200 and I have a middle position. I raise to 800, get a caller after me, SB folds BB goes all-in with a short chip stack, I raise to all-in, medium size chip stack and the other guy calls my all-in and leave me with 10 in chips.

I have AA, against 77 (Big Blind) and 33. Flop comes up empty, turn is a rag, and the river is a 3.

I was pissed at the hand, but I feel that I played it correctly.
 
156Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 11:07 		i am much better at tourneys. I have won about 1000 dollars on them. but they take forever and I can only do super well on them if i have the time and if i am not in the groove.

I came in first or second in 6 consecutive 1 table tournaments. Won a five card draw tourney of about 500 people about a month ago by accident. after that i haven't had much luck in the super large ones.
 
157ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 11:59 		Swings are part of the game...sometimes people get lucky...of course you want them to call you down or go all-in with inferior cards...that is how you make money in the longrun. Of course it sucks when they get lucky on you especially when it happens multiple times in a short period. The key to looking at any hand or any bad beat is to understand that poker is one looooong game...especially cash/ring poker...as long as you are getting your money in ahead consistently in the long run you should be profitable.

Like someone else mentioned that is why it is important to keep accurate records so you understand if you are a longterm winning player. IMO until you prove you can consistently win over ~500 hours or so you are still just beginning...need a good amount of data to really expect trends to continue. Also very important to keep a sufficient bankroll if you plan on playing for profit regularly...the best players go through losing swings. If you are playing NL you should have at minimum 25 maximum buy-ins...so if you are playing 50NL tables you really should have $1250 in your account at minimum to deal with some occasional losing swings. That also means if you have $1250 in your account and take a few beats and are down to $800 don't go to the 200NL tables chasing your losses...that is a sure way to lose everything in your account (I personally have a bad habit of chasing losses to higher tables..never lost my bankroll but has put me in spots where I have to play lower limits than I would like to recover my bankroll).
 
158ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 12:04 		Playing more hands...like suited connectors...playing marginal hand out of position...etc...also will cause you to have more variance/swings. I would not say it is wrong to play these hands and I think it is possible they can be played for profit if you play well enough but just understand playing these type hands will lead to more swings and unless you are very experienced these are likely losers in the longrun. Maybe they help you get paid off on your bigger hands. My first advice for most beginning players would be to only play very solid starting hands and learn to play those well before before venturing into playing garbage cards.
 
159rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 14:25 		DE -- As I have played at tables with you this week, my observation is you play way too many marignal hands (like the 8-6 example). Just because you won with it in the short run, it's a sure loser prop in the long run. Any beginning poker book will tell you that. My $0.02 take it or leave it.

I find I tend to lose when I forget about position. I get caught up and play hands the same way whether I am UTG or on the button which is VERY bad. I'll post this quite embarrasing example from last nite.

I had A-5o UTG at a 0.50/$1 NL table with $200 in my stack. I NEVER should have played this hand, but limped for $1

Fold to buttom who raised to $2. SB and BB call.

Flop 3-10-5.

check, button bets $2, fold fold. Next brain fart. I call the $2 with only bottom pair.

Turn = A. Bingo, right, 2 pair. I decide take it down and bet $15. I get raised to $30. Huh? next mistake, I call even though there were lotsa hands that beat me.

River is 5. Bingo again, right? Full hous 5's over A's. I bet $75. I get re-raised all in. I call. He flips pocket 10's I'm an idiot.

Why do I post that embarrasing hand? To illustrate 2 points. 1) Don't play mariginal hands and 2) the improtance of position.
 
160Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 15:09 		Tough hand to lose RFS, I'll agree that I probably wouldn't have played that hand either, but when you hit the full house, I would have made the same play.

There are many factors to consider, position at the table, betting habits, chip stack of your opponents, tournament play adds some different complexities such as knowing when you are in the tourney.

I also think that ChicagoTRS made a great point, don't play marginal hands, see how often you are playing a hand. I don't know about every site, but most sites have a spot that tells you what percentage of hands you are playing. If I am playing at a full table, it is rare that I play more than 20-30% of the hands.
 
161R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 19:59 		The one thing that has really turned my play around is figuring out what kind of player my opponents are. Against a loose/agressive maniac, I prefer being in early position as I can check-raise my big hands knowing full well he'll bet out. Vs. a tight/agressive player though, position is everything. It also helps me put my opponents on certain hands, and that helps me know if my mediocre hand is leading or not. I always knew this was important, but for the last month or so I've really been applying it with more and more success.

My view flop percentage has dropped to ~20%, but my agression has climbed as I play these hands more forcefully. I'd strongly recommend you guys buy pokertracker (I know rfs already has) as it tells you so much about your game that you probably don't know. It costs 50$ US, but it has payed for itself dozens of times over, similar to a good poker book.
 
162Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Mar 31, 2006, 08:54 		It's true i do play marginal hands too often, but yesterday i won about 50 doing so.

I had 89 clubs at a .25/.50 table and this guy had been raising and going in with nothning all night. he bets 3 dollars and I call, noing i could take all of his money if he's being an idiot again.

The flop was something like this:
4 7 10. All CLUBS!!!

His next bet is 5 dollars and of course i am debating on what to do so i just call knowing that he's going to make another huge bet on the next card.
The turn is like a Q of diamonds

He then bets another 15 dollars and I only call.

The next card scared the crap out of me a 10 of diamonds..

He goes all in and I call and win about 50 on the hand but I almost got screwed if he had a full house.

I find that i make most of my money after about 2 hours of playing when i become super tight and only play the best hands...

Honestly, I start at with the minimum of 10 dollars and after a few all in's with what i believe is the best hand (they call because i don't have many chips) I usually end up between 20 and 80 by the end of the night.

I don't win very consistently and really I am about even overall maybe marginally ahead. So ya i need a lot of practice.
 
163Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Mar 31, 2006, 08:56 		The great thing about play crap cards all the time is that when i have a really good hand like AA or KK i can bet like 3 dollars and get at least 1 or 2 callers 50% of the time. I need to be more selective and i never play position because i really don't know how.
 
164swami
      ID: 27230818
      Sat, Apr 08, 2006, 15:21 		My first decent finish in an on-line tourney. Netted $61.99 for a $3.30 buy-in at Stars. Finished 8th out of 1033. Here's the key hand that got me to the final table.

PokerStars Game #4553652597: Tournament #22380122, Hold'em No Limit -
Level XVI (3000/6000) - 2006/04/07 - 20:13:04 (ET)
Table '22380122 59' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: 1bettyboops (72148 in chips)
Seat 3: FishnChips69 (96774 in chips)
Seat 4: Tufro (20585 in chips)
Seat 6: Ivankaffe (28240 in chips)
Seat 7: DaSwam (82166 in chips)
Seat 8: Daywalker82 (150185 in chips)
Seat 9: miss39red (111663 in chips)
1bettyboops: posts the ante 300
FishnChips69: posts the ante 300
Tufro: posts the ante 300
Ivankaffe: posts the ante 300
DaSwam: posts the ante 300
Daywalker82: posts the ante 300
miss39red: posts the ante 300
DaSwam: posts small blind 3000
Daywalker82: posts big blind 6000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [9d 8d]
miss39red: folds
1bettyboops: calls 6000
FishnChips69: calls 6000
Tufro: folds
Ivankaffe: folds
DaSwam: calls 3000
Daywalker82: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jd Th 6h]
miss39red said, "nh chips"
bpolcin is connected
DaSwam: bets 18000
Daywalker82: folds
1bettyboops: folds
FishnChips69: calls 18000
*** TURN *** [Jd Th 6h] [4d]
DaSwam: bets 30000
FishnChips69: calls 30000
*** RIVER *** [Jd Th 6h 4d] [As]
DaSwam: bets 27866 and is all-in
FishnChips69: folds
DaSwam collected 122100 from pot
DaSwam: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 122100 | Rake 0
Board [Jd Th 6h 4d As]
Seat 2: 1bettyboops folded on the Flop
Seat 3: FishnChips69 folded on the River
Seat 4: Tufro folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Ivankaffe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: DaSwam (small blind) collected (122100)
Seat 8: Daywalker82 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: miss39red folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I put him on top pair from the flop, but asked later if I had two pair. Not sure why he didn't call. There were about 40 people left at the time. Thoughts?
 
165weykool
      ID: 15339116
      Sat, Apr 08, 2006, 16:47 		My thoughts are that you got very lucky he didnt call.
He had already put in over 54K in chips and he doesnt call another 29K?
I find I can make a similar play when i have position and the player I'm up against bet and i just call until the river when I can move all in.
The only problem is when they have the nuts and you get called with king high.
Very risky.....but sometimes it is worth it if you can sell it properly.
 
166beastiemiked
      ID: 12043123
      Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 20:34 		Two hands from my last set that light my eyes up with dollar signs. It's amazing the way some people play.


#Game No : 3941294139
***** Hand History for Game 3941294139 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:21945005 Level:3 Blinds(50/100) - Monday, April 10, 19:53:08 EDT 2006
Table Speed #1185418 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: pipestizzle ( $1760 )
Seat 4: rosekto ( $1700 )
Seat 5: speedwhiz ( $2060 )
Seat 6: rustam111 ( $3400 )
Seat 8: mannythemule ( $2910 )
Seat 10: str8_flush82 ( $3840 )
Seat 7: smashed12332 ( $4330 )
Trny:21945005 Level:3
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to smashed12332 [ Kc Ks ]
rosekto folds.
speedwhiz folds.
rustam111 is all-In [3400]
smashed12332 is all-In [4330]
mannythemule folds.
str8_flush82 folds.
pipestizzle folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 3s, 4s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
rustam111 shows [ 6c, 6s ] a pair of sixes.
smashed12332 shows [ Kc, Ks ] a pair of kings.
smashed12332 wins 930 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of kings.
smashed12332 wins 6950 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.
rustam111 finished in seventh place.

#Game No : 3941452571
***** Hand History for Game 3941452571 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:21945095 Level:6 Blinds(300/600) - Monday, April 10, 20:09:55 EDT 2006
Table Speed Bad To The Bone (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 6: Horongi ( $12770 )
Seat 2: smashed12332 ( $7230 )
Trny:21945095 Level:6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to smashed12332 [ 4d 6d ]
Horongi calls [300].
smashed12332 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Jd, Kc ]
smashed12332 checks.
Horongi checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
smashed12332 checks.
Horongi bets [600].
smashed12332 calls [600].
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
smashed12332 bets [1289].
Horongi is all-In [11570]
smashed12332 is all-In [4741]
smashed12332 shows [ 4d, 6d ] a straight, four to eight.
Horongi shows [ As, Ac ] a pair of aces.
Horongi wins 5540 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
smashed12332 wins 14460 chips from the main pot with a straight, four to eight.
 
167DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Sat, Apr 15, 2006, 15:20 		Well, I have my nominee for "worst river play ever". Happily, I wasn't involved in the hand. Enjoy.


PokerStars Game #4634569848: Tournament #23125612, $1.50+$0.25 Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/04/15 - 15:07:24 (ET)
Table '23125612 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: nando555 (1459 in chips)
Seat 2: DWetzel (1435 in chips)
Seat 4: wthhpe78 (1230 in chips)
Seat 6: nchilbilly (1168 in chips)
Seat 8: Migggy (3424 in chips)
Seat 9: bugasuga (3359 in chips)
Migggy: posts small blind 25
bugasuga: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DWetzel [6d Td 7h 6h]
nando555: calls 50
DWetzel: folds
wthhpe78: calls 50
nchilbilly: calls 50
Migggy: calls 25
bugasuga: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad Tc Js]
Migggy: checks
bugasuga: checks
nando555: checks
wthhpe78: checks
nchilbilly: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad Tc Js] [Qc]
Migggy: checks
bugasuga: checks
nando555: checks
wthhpe78: bets 100
nchilbilly: folds
Migggy: folds
bugasuga: calls 100
nando555: folds
*** RIVER *** [Ad Tc Js Qc] [Kh]
bugasuga: checks
wthhpe78: bets 200
bugasuga: calls 200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wthhpe78: shows [As 9s 9c 8d] (HI: a straight, Eight to Queen)
bugasuga: shows [2c 4d 5d 7c] (HI: high card Ace)
wthhpe78 collected 850 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 850 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Tc Js Qc Kh]
Seat 1: nando555 folded on the Turn
Seat 2: DWetzel folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: wthhpe78 showed [As 9s 9c 8d] and won (850) with HI: a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 6: nchilbilly (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 8: Migggy (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 9: bugasuga (big blind) showed [2c 4d 5d 7c] and lost with HI: high card Ace
 
168DWetzel
      ID: 30353118
      Sat, Apr 15, 2006, 15:33 		Oh, and saw this evil concoction earlier today as well:

PokerStars Game #4632148182: Tournament #23111420, $1.50+$0.25 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2006/04/15 - 08:56:07 (ET)
Table '23111420 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: duffdev1 (2890 in chips)
Seat 3: Bano1000 (3630 in chips)
Seat 4: CHIp_AHoYA (1575 in chips)
Seat 6: crogers7 (7250 in chips)
Seat 7: DWetzel (8205 in chips)
Seat 9: littleman067 (3450 in chips)
duffdev1: posts the ante 50
Bano1000: posts the ante 50
CHIp_AHoYA: posts the ante 50
crogers7: posts the ante 50
DWetzel: posts the ante 50
littleman067: posts the ante 50
crogers7: posts small blind 300
DWetzel: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DWetzel [9c 4d]
littleman067: calls 600
duffdev1: raises 2240 to 2840 and is all-in
Bano1000: folds
CHIp_AHoYA: calls 1525 and is all-in
crogers7: folds
DWetzel: folds
littleman067: folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 6c 6h]
*** TURN *** [6s 6c 6h] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [6s 6c 6h Ts] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
duffdev1: shows [Tc Th] (four of a kind, Sixes)
CHIp_AHoYA: shows [Ah 9s] (four of a kind, Sixes - Ace kicker)
CHIp_AHoYA collected 4850 from pot
DWetzel said, "WOW"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4850 | Rake 0
Board [6s 6c 6h Ts 6d]
Seat 1: duffdev1 showed [Tc Th] and lost with four of a kind, Sixes
Seat 3: Bano1000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: CHIp_AHoYA (button) showed [Ah 9s] and won (4850) with four of a kind, Sixes
Seat 6: crogers7 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: DWetzel (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: littleman067 folded before Flop
 
169Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 16:01 		So I lost about 300 dollars on one hand last night!!

I had pocket 5 5

the flop

5 K Q

He bets like 5 and i raise and 2 players call

then the next card is

5 K Q Q

I raise 15 and he raises me to 30, I go all In with 400

the guy calls and turns his cards over A Q

he only had about 300 dollars

the next card is a K
and i lose

what the hell... happens to me all the time.


 
170rockafellerskank
      ID: 180352016
      Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 21:34 		He actually had a 1 to 6.5 chance of beating you. Tough beat, but by definition, it will happen from time to time.
 
171Frick@Work
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 10:45 		You didn't say how much you raised, but to have 3 people call, either the table is extremely loose, or people are calling because you are known to be a loose player and they think you are bluffing. When the 2nd queen comes up you have to wonder is someone is holding KQ for a higer boat. If I hit that hand, I am going all-in or making a huge bet. You don't want to see anymore cards, you didn't say if a flush was a possability, but someone with A10, AJ, or even J10 has a straight draw after the flop, which would have beat a set.
 
172wiggs
      ID: 18338267
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 15:08 		I have a question, which I think I already know the answer to, but I would like reinforcement on it.

If player 1 bets and player 2 wants to raise, can player 2 say "I call and raise all in 1 breath" or once you say call is it simply a call?
 
173R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 15:17 		Pretty sure thats an all-in wiggs, though my live experience is limited.
 
174wiggs
      ID: 18338267
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 15:21 		sorry, that wasnt worded correctly should read
"I call and raise" all in 1 breath.
 
175Dedey14
      ID: 390142811
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 15:41 		It would be a call only
 
176Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:30 		I would imagine it would depend on the dealer and players involved, but it's a stringer, and I would expect it to often be treated as such.

String bets

It shouldn't really matter if it was all in one breath. Then you'd have to argue and bicker of the definition of "one breath".
 
177wiggs
      Donor
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:42 		i agree it is a string bet, I was playing at turning stone casino last night. I was involved in a big hand and I raised 20 dollars after the river, my opponent then called and raised 200 more. There was 180 in the pot and I folded my straight, fearing he hit a flush. After agruing with the dealer and the floor manager for 20 minutes I was told that was a legal play. To make matters worse he showed off his hand and it was simply a bluff. Needless to say I left there VERY angry.
 
178biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:45 		Playing live limit poker around here, it would be string bet only if it was accompanied by two seperate motions, one to bet and one to raise, I think. If he said "call and raise" and put out the call and raise in one motion with all the chips in his hand, nobody would bat an eye, I don't think. Even with true string bets (two separate sets of chips crossing the line), if no other player calls him on it, the dealer won't (and can't in most houses.). They watch the chips.

It's a bit different in tourney play, where words trump actions. It would probably be called a string bet if you said call then said raise in that circumstance.

Moral: ask the dealer at whatever house you are playing in.
 
179Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:46 		You wuz robbed.
 
180Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:52 		Even with true string bets (two separate sets of chips crossing the line), if no other player calls him on it, the dealer won't (and can't in most houses.).

If verbal declarations are accepted as binding, then they're both "true string bets". In tournament play, words don't trump actions in any way, shape, or form. If a player makes a forward motion with all of his chips and a split second later says "call", then he'll be all-in regardless of his verbal declaration. If the action and the declaration are reversed, then it's a call.

If he said "call and raise" and put out the call and raise in one motion with all the chips in his hand, nobody would bat an eye, I don't think.

I wouldn't disagree. It's all a matter of how rigid the players, dealers, and bosses want to be. Frankly, I would prefer they be really rigid. If you give an inch to poker players, they'll take a mile and push it as far as they can.
 
181biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 16:59 		In tourney play around here words do trump actions with regard to string bets. If you say "raise", and first put in a call bet, then follow it with more chips, it's perfectly legit.

Your example is a bit different, Sludge, and I agree. Any chips that cross the line are committed to the pot, but that has little to do with string bets.
 
182Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 17:54 		In tourney play around here words do trump actions with regard to string bets. If you say "raise", and first put in a call bet, then follow it with more chips, it's perfectly legit.

Because that's not a stringer anywhere.
 
183beastiemiked
      ID: 12043123
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 19:21 		I wouldn't say he was robbed. The guy obviously meant to go all in but maybe was not familiar with string bets. If it was all in one breath then I wouldn't be aggressively headhunting the guy down for string betting. The reason string bets are illegal is so people don't use them to gain an edge, in this case the guy was obviously not using it to gain an edge.
 
184Sludge
      ID: 14411118
      Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 22:25 		bmd -

Broken record alert. Please apply this to your posting as well:

I wouldn't disagree. It's all a matter of how rigid the players, dealers, and bosses want to be. Frankly, I would prefer they be really rigid. If you give an inch to poker players, they'll take a mile and push it as far as they can.
 
185ChicagoTRS
      ID: 50333110
      Thu, Apr 27, 2006, 08:28 		That is a string bet...probably an honest mistake but you simply cannot say "I call and raise"...should just be "raise".
 
186Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Thu, Apr 27, 2006, 15:33 		here is my dilemma i have been having a lot lately of:

I'll go all in with the best hand a lot of times before all 5 cards are on the table and I'll lose a few of them on the river or turn etc...

So my question is:

1.) should i not go all in until all 5 cards are on the table in case for instance that K comes up on the river, then i can fold???

2.) or if i think i can get the guy to call me all in with me ahead should i try to go all in!?

I could of just called all the way to the end before i go all in, but it seems good to go all in before..

ADVICE!?
 
187Dedey14
      ID: 390142811
      Thu, Apr 27, 2006, 17:56 		It all depends on what the situation is(chips stacks, position, etc) But if you feel you have the best hand and make your opponen tcommit all their chips w/ the worst hand you've done your job. Of course you'll lose every once in a while(that's poker) but in the long run you will make money.
 
188ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 10:03 		If you can get all of your opponents money in the pot when you have the odds to win the hand you should do it nearly every time...the only case where this might not be the right play is in a tournament situation where you will be eliminated if your opponent catches his draw.

Try not thinking about the results of one hand...think about the longterm results of a play...if you are constantly getting your money in as a 70% favorite...sure you are going to lose 3 out of 10 times but in the longrun you should be up a lot of money. Waiting for all the cards to be dealt before putting your opponent all-in is a mistake because if the person was on a draw they will likely fold on the river if they missed their draw and you are losing out on money you could have collected if you bet the turn.
 
189Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 11:08 		last night it happened to me 2 times lost about 400

I have A 9 he has A Q

I put him all in on the turn after he kept reraising me

A 4 9 7

ALL IN for about 130 and he the river is

Q and i lose..

Then a minute later i was on tilt

I had 4 5 same guy has Q 10

nothing. i was big blind

the flop 4 10 5 rainbow

he raises me like 2 dollars and I was mad and i go all in

On the turn he gets another 10 on the river and I lose another 240...

not sure why this keeps happening. is online poker rigged?
 
190Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 11:11 		luckily i had one big break last night

when i hit a flush and the guy hit a lower flush and i won a big pot...

but a minute later i lose it all when i have a nuts straigth on the guy calls my all in with flush draw and gets the flush...

now if i were to wait until all 5 cards are on the table each time i could fold...

oh well.
 
191Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 11:15 		oh ya and i lost about 100 on another hand where i had AA

i am playing .50/1.00 tables

5 guys are in for about 2 dollars apiece and so i go all in with about 100.

2 people call

1.) AK
2.) 44

the 2.) gets trips.. lol throughout last night i only ended up losing 200 dollars but damn so many chances to come up big and I lost them all.

 
192Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 11:22 		Now those are the some of the numbers but feeling seems to have a big effect on me.

Does anyone else feel like crap after they lose and they don't want to tell anyone about it. Everytime i lose money i feel depressed and I don't tell any of my friends that i lost money, especially the girl i am dating.

It's a strange feeling afterwards.. Does anyone else get like this. I bent my crappiest golf club in half.
 
193ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 16:53 		That could turn into a huge hole in your game...going on tilt after losing on a bad beat or two can cost you a lot more money than just the money lost on that hand. You would be best to forget the hand(s) and continue to play your best poker. I understand it is easier said than done...I struggle with it myself at times...it really is just a matter of understanding that when you have the best hand and there are cards to come sometimes you will lose even when you are a big favorite...if you are a 80/20 favorite when you get your money in that still means 1 out of 5 times you are going to lose the hand...when it happens understand it and put it out of your mind and realize you did the right thing getting your money in the pot when you did...the other person just got lucky. Avoid thinking that you need to try and get lucky or it is your turn to get lucky. I would say most players struggle with this so your are not alone...

The reason you are depressed is probably because you realize you played like a jackass and lost money because of it...or you are playing with money you can't afford to lose. Simple solutions...don't tilt...do not play with rent money...establish a bankroll to play with. You need to realize the best poker players in the world still lose sometimes...but the best players don't give away any more than they have to when they are losing...they still continue to play great poker. Sometimes the cards just deal you a few "coolers" or bad beats and there is nothing you can do about it except lose your money. If you know you cannot control yourself after a bad beat force yourself to quit the game.

So you were down $200 on the night...how much did you lose because of tilt? If you didn't tilt you probably would have ended up a winner even after the bad beats. There are a few players I play a lot of hours with that early on in a game I will chase and pay to chase against on purpose because I know if I give them a bad beat their game completely changes and I have a good shot at a lot more money...don't be one of those players...thinking in baseball terms try to have a Closers mentality...forget about the last game where you blew the save got to go in there the next game with your best stuff.
 
194R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Apr 28, 2006, 17:10 		You need to roll with the punches. Last night I had:

AA vs. QQ Raise preflop, he calls. Flop of J92 rainbow, I bet, he moves all-in, call. He hits a Q on the river, I'm down 100$.

AA vs. 44 (44 was a real loose-agressive type too, view flop over 50%) I raise, he re-raises preflop, I re-raise, he calls. Flop of 7/4/2. (ugh) After the preflop raising, no way I'm putting him on pocket 7's or 4's, so I lose another 100$ in a raising war on the flop.

But I kept my head, and won 150$ of it back by just playing solid. No one big hand (think my biggest was 50$ on a flopped flush), just taking pots nobody wanted, taking a small 20$ with top pair, etc. You just can't tilt. Pokertracker has me at +1,798$ with AA still, despite those two losses.

Longterm, getting your money in while ahead will pay off. Which is probably why I dislike tournies. Not every hand is equal, so a set early on isn't nearly as valuable as a set late in a tourney. A bad beat in the 1st half-hour is just a 'meh' to me. A bad beat with 20 people left is just devastating. I'm not quite ready to live with that yet.
 
195Deadeye
      ID: 481032311
      Mon, May 01, 2006, 08:56 		what is poker tracker?

I won about 300 dollars the last 2 days.

took this one guy out of 70 after i chased a flush... he usually is pretty rock solid but i gave him a huge beat....he left the table and every table i tried to play with him and get in position he would leave.

 
196Sludge
      ID: 11042612
      Mon, May 01, 2006, 11:34 		Did you have odds, or was it really just a chase?

If it was an actual chase, seems odd that he wouldn't be chomping at the bit to play more with you. I love when people chase out their flushes and straights heads-up for pot-sized bets. Bring 'em on, I say!
 
197rockafellerskank
      ID: 49136120
      Sun, May 07, 2006, 14:51 		Such a fun hand earlier today against another Gurupie. (I'm skankboy1)

*******
Stage #355475113: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2006-05-07 14:42:32 (ET)
Table: MIDVALE DR. (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - PACK32 ($63.75 in chips)
Seat 9 - 99MAVERIK99 ($313.36 in chips)
Seat 1 - SKANKBOY1 ($197.50 in chips)
Seat 2 - VLACO ($96.90 in chips)
Seat 3 - RAST ($96.20 in chips)
Seat 4 - FR0B0YZ0R ($50.80 in chips)
99MAVERIK99 - Posts small blind $0.50
SKANKBOY1 - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SKANKBOY1 [4s As]
VLACO - Folds
RAST - Folds
FR0B0YZ0R - Folds
PACK32 - Folds
99MAVERIK99 - Raises $4.50 to $5
SKANKBOY1 - Calls $4
*** FLOP *** [6d Ad 4c]
99MAVERIK99 - Bets $8
SKANKBOY1 - Raises $16 to $16
99MAVERIK99 - Calls $8
*** TURN *** [6d Ad 4c] [Ac]
99MAVERIK99 - Checks
SKANKBOY1 - Checks
*** RIVER *** [6d Ad 4c Ac] [10c]
99MAVERIK99 - Bets $55
SKANKBOY1 - Raises $110 to $110
99MAVERIK99 - Calls $55
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SKANKBOY1 - Shows [4s As] (Full house, aces full of fours)
99MAVERIK99 - Mucks
SKANKBOY1 Collects $259 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($262) | Rake ($3)
Board [6d Ad 4c Ac 10c]
Seat 1: SKANKBOY1 (big blind) won Total ($259) HI:($259) with Full house, aces full of fours [4s As - P:As,B:Ad,B:Ac,P:4s,B:4c]
Seat 2: VLACO Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: RAST Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: FR0B0YZ0R Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: PACK32 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: 99MAVERIK99 (small blind) HI: [Mucked] [5c 7c]
 
198swami
      ID: 60391022
      Mon, May 08, 2006, 19:47 		The worst hand of poker I've ever seen.

PokerStars Game #4874222048: Tournament #24233249, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/05/08 - 19:39:39 (ET)
Table '24233249 10' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: CoachMoss (710 in chips)
Seat 2: duncsharp (770 in chips)
Seat 3: tihswa (1665 in chips)
Seat 4: DaSwam (1105 in chips)
Seat 5: MadMat^222 (2565 in chips)
Seat 6: DA H.N.I.C. (1200 in chips)
Seat 7: Dagoepampan (980 in chips)
Seat 8: cotton318 (3190 in chips)
Seat 9: saint75 (1950 in chips)
Dagoepampan: posts small blind 25
cotton318: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [7h 6h]
saint75: folds
CoachMoss: calls 50
duncsharp: folds
tihswa: raises 50 to 100
DaSwam: folds
MadMat^222: calls 100
DA H.N.I.C.: calls 100
Dagoepampan: folds
cotton318: calls 50
CoachMoss: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [7c 8d 3s]
cotton318: checks
CoachMoss: bets 200
tihswa: calls 200
MadMat^222: folds
DA H.N.I.C.: folds
cotton318: folds
*** TURN *** [7c 8d 3s] [Qh]
CoachMoss: bets 410 and is all-in
tihswa: calls 410
*** RIVER *** [7c 8d 3s Qh] [3h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CoachMoss: shows [Js 9c] (a pair of Threes)
tihswa: shows [5h Ts] (a pair of Threes - lower kicker)
CoachMoss collected 1745 from pot
DaSwam said, "???"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1745 | Rake 0
Board [7c 8d 3s Qh 3h]
Seat 1: CoachMoss showed [Js 9c] and won (1745) with a pair of Threes
Seat 2: duncsharp folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: tihswa showed [5h Ts] and lost with a pair of Threes
Seat 4: DaSwam folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MadMat^222 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: DA H.N.I.C. (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Dagoepampan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: cotton318 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: saint75 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Anyone seen worse?
 
199DWetzel
      ID: 563201922
      Mon, May 15, 2006, 21:54 		*sigh*

I hate poker. I'm swearing off the heads up matches for a while after this one. Guy likes to stab at a lot of pots when he senses weakness, hence the flop check:

PokerStars Game #4948010280: Tournament #24814502, $5.00+$0.25 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Match Round I, Level II (10/20) - 2006/05/15 - 21:42:48 (ET)
Table '24814502 1' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: DWetzel (1390 in chips)
Seat 2: carolinakyle (1610 in chips)
carolinakyle: posts small blind 10
DWetzel: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DWetzel [6s 2d As Kc]
carolinakyle: raises 40 to 60
DWetzel: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [Ad Kh Kd]
DWetzel: checks
carolinakyle: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad Kh Kd] [4c]
DWetzel: bets 40
carolinakyle: raises 200 to 240
DWetzel: raises 260 to 500
carolinakyle: raises 1050 to 1550 and is all-in
DWetzel: calls 830 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Ad Kh Kd 4c] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DWetzel: shows [6s 2d As Kc] (HI: a full house, Kings full of Aces)
carolinakyle: shows [4s 4d 2c Ah] (HI: four of a kind, Fours)
 
200ChicagoTRS
      ID: 15372923
      Tue, May 16, 2006, 00:03 		Fun little hand...almost folded preflop...

Game: 794162849: Table: Crazy For You
Normal Table No Limit 5.00/10.00
Rake: 3.00
Seat: 1 bengali1
Seat: 2 _The_Rake_ (Dealer)
Seat: 3 JACOBBENJ
Seat: 4 Wilbur45
Seat: 5 tuffnutts
Seat: 6 MactanTRS

------------------
OpeningBetRound
------------------
JACOBBENJ : Posts small blind 5.00
Wilbur45 : Posts big blind 10.00
tuffnutts : Calls for 10.00
MactanTRS : Raises for 40.00
bengali1 : Calls for 40.00
_The_Rake_ : Went all-in 331.75
JACOBBENJ : Folds
Wilbur45 : Calls for 321.75
tuffnutts : Folds
MactanTRS : Calls for 291.75
bengali1 : Folds
------------------
Flop: QD, 6S, 7S
------------------
Wilbur45 : Bets 75.00
MactanTRS : Raises for 150.00
Wilbur45 : Calls for 75.00
------------------
Turn: QD, 6S, 7S, JH
------------------
Wilbur45 : Checks
MactanTRS : Went all-in 386.91
Wilbur45 : Calls for 386.91
------------------
River: QD, 6S, 7S, JH, 7D
------------------

------------------
Showdown
------------------
_The_Rake_ [ 7S, 7D, AD, KH, QD - One Pair ]
Wilbur45 [ 10S, 10D, 7S, 7D, QD - Two Pair ]
MactanTRS [ QD, QH, QC, 7S, 7D - Fullhouse ]

------------------
Result
------------------
JACOBBENJ Mucked Cards
Wilbur45 Showed Cards
tuffnutts Mucked Cards
MactanTRS Showed Cards (Winning) 2121.07
bengali1 Mucked Cards
_The_Rake_ Showed Cards

------------------
Community Cards
------------------
[ QD, 6S, 7S, JH, 7D ]

------------------
Players Cards
------------------
JACOBBENJ [ -, - ]
Wilbur45 [ 10S, 10D ]
tuffnutts [ -, - ]
MactanTRS [ QH, QC ]
bengali1 [ -, - ]
_The_Rake_ [ AD, KH ]
 
201RebelFan42
      ID: 183552718
      Thu, May 18, 2006, 17:42 		Don't know if anyone here uses any rake back calculators but I just wanted to give a heads up to all in case you do

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1963649,00.asp
 
202Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sat, May 27, 2006, 14:34 		Washingtonians beware, play on-line for money and you are a FELON!

Well, this is aburd beyond measure. Welcome to the world of the marijuana smoker.
 
203THK
      ID: 244532623
      Sat, May 27, 2006, 16:50 		Pocket Ks are my favorite hand live.............definitely not anymore online.
 
204beastiemiked
      ID: 18301915
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 11:14 		Brag Post:

I'm in, baby! Yesterday I played in the Stars 33 rebuy 1 seat WSOP guarantee tourney. I weaved through the field of 240+ and took down the whole thing. I'll be one of the 8000 or so degenerates looking to take down the 2006 WSOP Main Event.

Stars is hooking up all their qualifiers with free accomodations from 7/27-8/4. If any of you are out there during that time we'll have to get together for a drink, assuming I don't luckbox my way past day 3+.
 
205weykool
      ID: 44211612
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 11:30 		Congrats Beast.
Well done.
 
206biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 12:01 		Sweet!

Good luck, Beastie.

There are a couple of local houses around here that offer a seat. My recent run (2 1st and a 3rd in my last 4 tourneys) is starting to get me pondering taking a shot at 2007. That said, I need a lot more practice and need to do a lot more reading to even have a slim shot.
 
207R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 12:15 		Nice beastie! We'll be rooting for ya. Any memorable hands in the qualifier? You win lots of coin flips? Or just real solid play?
 
208THK
      ID: 2510332316
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 12:23 		Great bmd! You will have to keep us updated throughout and after the tournament. My eye is on 2008! ;-)
 
209Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 12:28 		Congrats bmd!!

I can't wait for Norman Chad to punk you out on the ESPN telecast ;-)
 
210beastiemiked
      ID: 18301915
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 15:49 		Nice beastie! We'll be rooting for ya. Any memorable hands in the qualifier? You win lots of coin flips? Or just real solid play?

About 120 players left, I have an average stack. Pick up JhJs in MP, raise 3x BB. BB calls. Flop comes AsQs7d. He checks, I cbet(about 2/3 of the pot) hoping to fold any hand worse than a pair of aces, he calls.

Turn Ts, giving me the royal flush draw. He checks which to me is a big sign of weakness as the only way he's checking here as a trap is if he has the Ks. I bet again leaving enough behind where I have to call a push but can fold if he just calls and the river bricks. He calls.

River Ks, my gin card. He checks and I bet about 2/3 of my remaining chips hoping he has a lower spade. He calls. I flip over my royal flush and he goes ballistic. Come to find out he called me with KhKd. Pretty well confirmed my suspicion that the tourney was soft.

After that, nothing too memorable happened(picked up 2 decent sized pots with AK and had AA hold up against another big stack's all in) until the final table bubble. With 11 left(places 2-10 paid $650), I'm UTG and am #2 in chips, pick up AhQh. I raise 3x BB, folded around to SB who is #1 in chips, he calls. BB has about half as many chips as me and reraises. The SB and I had been pretty active stealing blinds so I knew BB wasn't only making a reraise here with monsters, so I shoved and SB folded but BB instacalled. He flips over KsKh so I'm in pretty bad shape. Flop comes Jd Kd 4c. The ten comes on the turn giving me the straight and the river blanks. I take down a monster pot and have a nice chip lead going into the final table.

Final table wasn't too exciting. Had a pretty bad beat with 6 left when I had AK and got all my chips in on a AK7 flop only to see my opponent runner runner a flush with AT. Other than that my hands held up against the shorties and I did a fair number on out playing the other big stacks.

When it finally got heads up I had a huge chip advantage and my opponent was playing way too weak with only around 12 BB's. I whittled his stack down to about 5 BB's and open pushed from the SB with 4d7d(the guy was playing way too tight and was probably only calling with top 20%), he called with KdJh. Flop comes 356 rainbow and boom I'm headed to Vegas.
 
211Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 17:34 		Congrats, BMD

That said, I'm surprised that there wasn't more said about the fact that playing poker on-line in the state of Washington is about to become a felony. Is it a felony in the states you live in? Do you not care?

Where is the outrage?
 
212Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 17:45 		Sweet story bmd.

I can see the CardPlayer.com updates now:

beastiemiked just crushed tournament favorite Phil Ivey when his KK held up against Ivey's QQ to take a monster pot and 2/3 of Ivey's chips.
 
213biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 17:47 		I saw a bit on Saturday, when I brought the PI with the headline to a tourney up at Goldies, Zen. The old guys shrugged it off, but the young guys were in disbelief. Most hoped that off-shore bank accounts will mask their location, and they may be right.
 
214R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 18:20 		It doesn't personally affect me being a non-US citizen, so I guess I just thought it ridiculous and shrugged it off. But it sets a horrible precedent. Its just about the stupidest law to uphold that I've ever seen, and the reported penalties are just outrageous. Equal to child pornography and animal torture?
 
215biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 18:50 		Some State Senator probably had to bail-out little Johnny, who ran up 10K at Party Poker on his gold card that was only "to be used for emergencies".

Instead of using it as a life-lesson and making him pay back at least a portion of it, they decide to do what we always seem to do in the US -

PROHIBITION! The solution to all our woes!

I don't really give a twit's nose hair, because I fortunately found playing online boring, but I can see where some folks would be up in arms.
 
216biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, May 30, 2006, 19:14 		Ah....

I see now that Sen. Prentice, who was the Bill's sponsor, represents Tukwila, Burien and Renton.

This district just happens to be the home of about a dozen brick and mortar casinos, of which the cities skim approx. 10%.

It all becomes clear.
 
217ChicagoTRS
      ID: 15372923
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 00:06 		Very true some of the largest opposition to online casinos have been the B&M casinos...most of the money spent lobbying against online has come from B&M.

Biggest problem is enforcement...$$$
 
218ChicagoTRS
      ID: 15372923
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 00:07 		B&M is pretty short sighted...where do they think 90% of their new players are coming from...online junkies wandering into the real world...
 
219swami
      ID: 75542011
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 15:25 		Congrats BMD! I think a rotoguru.com shirt is appropriate to wear during the tourney. Especially WHEN you make the final table.
 
220R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 16:08 		I'm pretty sure he has to wear Pstars gear, though I'm not sure if that includes t-shirt or is just the hat.
 
221beastiemiked
      ID: 18301915
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 16:29 		Well I don't have to wear their stuff. If I choose to, I get 9 nights free at either the Monte Carlo or Treasure Island or $1000. Also, if I were to make the final table and chose the "sponsership deal" I would get $100,000 for 4-9, $250,000 2-3, and 1,000,000 for first.
 
222biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 16:58 		Guru can match that, I'm sure.
 
223THK
      ID: 2510332316
      Wed, May 31, 2006, 22:52 		9 nights free for wearing a t-shirt. NIIIICE. haha. good luck man...you better keep us updated on your preformance!

anybody heard how many are going to be in the WSOP this year?
 
224beastiemiked
      ID: 36428317
      Thu, Jun 01, 2006, 01:06 		As of now they have it broken up into 4 different day one flights, each one they show having 2000. So around 8000 I'm assuming. I just checked Stars and they already have 800+ qualified through them.
 
225ChicagoTRS
      ID: 564292610
      Thu, Jun 01, 2006, 09:09 		btw bmd congrats...going anywhere in this tournament is like winning the lotto but it can be done...I play all the time with a guy that came in 14th place last year...and work with another guy that has made the money 3 out of the last 4 years. Just play solid poker.
 
226ChicagoTRS
      ID: 564292610
      Thu, Jun 01, 2006, 09:15 		New thread started... Poker Part VI