Forum: gent
Page 198
Subject: Poker Part IX

  Posted by: ChicagoTRS - [249542719] Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 21:24
Poker discussion continued...
 
1ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 21:29 		Found out today I will be in Vegas during the WSOP...will definitely play an event...not sure which...either 6/29 2K NL or 6/28 5K NL short handed...

I would prefer the shorthanded event as I play 95% of the time at shorthanded tables...plus with 5K in chips you get a little more of an opportunity to play...I think it will be a more loaded field. But not sure if I want to take 5K out of pocket...I might take backers for up to 40%...I know a few people who would likely be willing to back me.
 
2Dr. E
      ID: 29161022
      Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 21:52 		how does backers work? if i gave you 1000 what would it mean?
 
3ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 22:09 		$1250 would give you 20%...I am looking to get $2500 in backing for the 40%. I am selling % at a slight premium to help cover expenses and frankly I feel like I am a decent investment. I do not know that I will take backers from online...I think I will have enough local interest...will probably have to turn people away. Would only take backing from people I know could afford to lose it and understand in the end it is still a tournament that will likely draw ~400 players (507 last year) so the chances of cashing or making it to the final table are slim no matter how well I might play.

I might not even take any backers if I keep rolling like I have been...2007 so far in 46 sessions I have booked 40 wins and 6 losses...with no huge loss nights...
 
4KnicksFan
      ID: 551391816
      Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 22:43 		Do the Producers plan. Get like 30 backers for $1000 each, and then just bust out really early!
 
5Dr. E
      ID: 29161022
      Tue, Feb 20, 2007, 22:50 		you must be a professional and you must be the best there is aroudn here...how long have you been playing and what made you good?
 
6ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Wed, Feb 21, 2007, 00:17 		I am not a pro...and I do not claim to be the best around here...there are a few players on here that are very good. I would expect that as I think being a very good fantasy player involves many of the same skills as playing poker.

At this point I think I could make a very good living playing cards but I also hold down a very good job and with the uncertainty that is online poker would never make that jump. I play with some players that I feel are better...I always feel like I still have a lot to learn...feel like I mostly feed off the poor players...but likely I am in the top 10% or so of cash game players at the levels I play.

I started playing jan 04...and really have won from the beginning. I am not sure why...comes naturally I suppose...my father was/is a very good card player...always supplemented our families income playing cards. I did read a few books, have always been good at games, mathematic/analytical inclined, very competitive. Plus I love money so after some initial success the love of poker came easily. I worked my way through the ranks...starting at .25-.50 9 handed tables to the levels I play today 5-10 & 10-20 NL 6 handed.

I think my next challenge will be tournaments...I have played my share...but I have probably played 98% of my time on cash tables...I like winning every day rather than losing a lot and waiting for a big score every once in awhile. I have won a few decent tournaments...considering how few I have played I think I have probably performed well. I just know I have a lot to learn...especially when it comes to the end game...when the blinds are escalating. I think sometimes I gamble too much in tournaments...I like to show some gamble in cash games because I can always reload and it helps me get paid off on big hands...kind of a Doyle Brunson super system philosophy.

 
7JCS
      ID: 5001784
      Wed, Feb 21, 2007, 07:03 		Hi guys,

I'm a long time lurker on this thread, I actually discovered poker because of you guys last summer, when bmd and rfs had won entries to the Main Event. Since then I became completely hooked.

Anyway, just wanted you guys to know I enjoy reading your threads. ChicagoTRS I hope to see you one day playing with Sbrugby and Luigi at the 300-600 tables ;-)
 
8Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Feb 21, 2007, 17:30 		I, too, am a lurker and love reading everyone's posts. I got interested in NL Hold'em about a year and a half ago and have picked up some great tips from these threads. I don't play for money, it's not in my blood, I'm too cheap, ask Biliruben. But I do enjoy playing at Party Poker dot net. I realize that the vast majority of people playing are idiots and by limiting my playing to free games I am not really learning skills that would help me in cash games, I'm actually reinforcing poor play most of the time.

That said, I am quite proud of myself today. I have found that the quality of people playing their multi-table mega-tourneys is a considerably higher than their cash games and sit-and-goes. I like to play in these tourneys when I have the time.

Well, today I actually won a tourney of four thousand people. My previous best was 142nd. It was great fun.

Playing for money on-line is a felony in WA, so I steer clear and I don't like playing in person, so this was really the pinnacle of my poker universe.
 
9wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Feb 21, 2007, 17:47 		i had a good poker night last night.
Played in a 65 dollar buy in at turning stone casino in NY. I feel like I played perfect poker except for 2 mistakes, which isnt to bad see as the tourney lasted over 10 hours and 1 ridiculous bad beat.

1st mistake was a big one, blinds were 500 1000 ante of 200 (i believe, might have been 150) I get dealt QQ on the button and throw out 10000 chips, we had 4 callers so there was a nice pot already built up, but when I said raise I guess I said it pretty quiet and the dealer didnt hear me and didnt allow my raise. Flop came out AK3 rainbow and I had an all in and call in front of me so I put it down, 1 guy had k4 and the other A2. Doubt either would have called 10000, so that was a big blunder on my part. I play with my ipod on and am always afraid of talking real loud, from that point on I took it off or paused it when I was involved.

mistake 2- I got dealt AJ suited UTG and raised 3 times the big blind, all folds to big blind, flop was J99, he checked I bet out pot sized bet he thought for about 2 minutes and called, turn was a 2 of diamonds, check check, river was an Ace giving me 2 pair, he checked and I should have just checked knowing he only calls with something that beats me, but I bet anyways, and he reraised me a snall amount, almost making me call so I did, and he turned over his 94 trips. I just couldnt get away from it even though I wanted to 2 different times.

Bad beat story

final table up against the short stack I get KK 1st to act. I limp and Short stack goes all in for 27000 (blinds 3000 6000 with 1000 ante) and I called, he goes got me, and shows q4 offsuit. Flop brings all blanks, turn 4 river queen and Then I became short stack and was blinded and anted down to the point I had to go with any ace, caught A9 but ran into A10 and lost to a straight.

Good tourney though, I won 567 dollars on a 65 buy in.
 
10Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Feb 21, 2007, 18:19 		but when I said raise I guess I said it pretty quiet and the dealer didnt hear me and didnt allow my raise

That's one of my pet peeves.....the chips placed out for a raise are just as binding as an audible call of raise. It ticks me off when dealers aren't paying attention or are in such a rush that they don't notice my action. I usually prefer not to audiblize my raise so as to not give away any tells of the true strength of my hand with the veracity of my audible announcement. Paranoid perhaps but I just like it that way.
 
11ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Thu, Feb 22, 2007, 00:03 		Typically the only time I will make an audible call of raise is if I am going to raise with one chip. If you put 10K in chips in the pot you should not need to make an audible call. If it was a single 10K chip then you definitely need to make sure they hear your raise.
 
12wiggs
      ID: 60103021
      Thu, Feb 22, 2007, 00:05 		it was 2 5000 chips
 
13Species
      Leader
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Feb 22, 2007, 00:15 		......indeed, TRS. In every tourney I've played any single chip without an audible call is automatically considered a call.
 
14ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Thu, Feb 22, 2007, 00:21 		That was a bad ruling...as long as you are putting out more than one chip you should not need to make an audible raise declaration. That is just standard...is there a house rule that states you must audibly declare all action? I would have called the floor.
 
15R9
      ID: 361421923
      Thu, Feb 22, 2007, 00:25 		Had a hand in Vegas where the dealer didn't hear my call. I had Ax of hearts, flop brought two hearts. There was a bet, I raised, and the guy called. The turn brought a 3rd heart, I checked, other guy goes all-in, and I immediately say call and flip my nut flush over. The dealer for whatever reason didn't hear me and mucked my face-up cards. The whole table beat me to it and practically took the guy's head off. ;)

They called the floor manager over and sorted it out. The other player was a good sport about it and had no problem accepting my nut flush. (He had a lower flush)

I understand dealers are human, but when someone is all-in and another player flips over the nuts, automatically sending them to the muck is a clear sign that not only were you not listening (the other side of the table heard my call just fine) but that you weren't really paying any attention either.
 
16wiggs
      ID: 60103021
      Fri, Feb 23, 2007, 14:37 		I went back to the TS casino last night and talked to on of the guys who works the floor, he told me my raise should have been allowed and if something like that were to happen again to stop play and call the floor immediately.
 
17beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Fri, Feb 23, 2007, 16:10 		Dealers making mistakes is inevitable. The key is to know the rules so when they make a mistake you aren't afraid to speak up. I would've definitely argued until the dealer gave in or he called the floor. I'm surprised nobody at the table backed you up about your raise.
 
18Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 18:07 		was this a bad call? HEADS UP.

> >1 great play I made the other day was I have Qs 10s and the flop was
> >As Qc 4s... the guy raises 6 I bet 18 and he goes all in.. I call he
> >has 2 pair and I miss my flush draw... lost 100 on that one... I was
> >on tilt against that guy. He took about 250 on me before I gave up...
> >He wasn't good he just got really luck on some of his calls because
> >he did river me a lot when I was ahead and betting. He was a fish but
> >I got too frustrated to finish him off
 
19wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 18:34 		in my opinion you need to call the 6 and see the river. If you miss you can get away, but if you hit you can hope he pushes. I never like to put my money in on a draw.
 
20ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 21:04 		Dr E... 60% vs 40% you were behind on the flop...once you make the 18 raise you probably priced yourself into the call...IMO bad raise...call the 6...see another card...

currently on a 20 day win streak...best month ever...I wish they would sort out online gaming...legalize and regulate!
 
21ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 21:05 		(60/40 if he had A4...worse if he had AQ)
 
22R9
      ID: 361421923
      Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 21:46 		People love to overvalue their mid/low pair w/ flush draw on the flop. If you have AKs and the flop comes A92, with the 9 and 2 of your suit, you have a very powerful hand. But middle-pair, with a middle-kicker, and a non-nut flush draw is just a decent hand. No need to be raising that, call and hope you hit your flush or make trips/two pair. (And even then, trips/two pair is played rather slowly too.) If you don't improve and someone else has been betting, how is your pair of queens any good vs. his obvious ace? You want to see the turn and river cheaply.

I was on tilt against that guy. He took about 250 on me before I gave up... He wasn't good he just got really luck on some of his calls because he did river me a lot when I was ahead and betting. He was a fish but I got too frustrated to finish him off

Can't tell you how bad this is. Major, major leak. If you're on tilt, you need to quit. If he truely was a fish, he didn't beat you, you beat yourself.
 
23Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 09:34 		I found fulltilt and it's a great site. I just play 1 v 1 or heads up. i put in 300 and I got up to about 1500... Now i am back down to 1100... because of the tilt. How do you handle when you are playing bad? Sometimes i feel unbeatable and sometimes i feel that i am playing horrible.

So was the call bad or not??? I know the bet wasn't bad but he had been betting so much on me that I had to try to steal the pot with those cards. He was betting 3 6 18 everytime...
 
24Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 09:34 		Chicago what site do you play on? I want to observe you!
 
25Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 09:48 		how do you beat a fish heads up btw? Seems to be my biggest problem. You can't bet them out, so every hand you don't have something you lose because they'll bet you out, and every time you have a decent hand they'll catch something and then try to bust you on the river?

 
26Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 09:51 		Sorry for the multiple postings:

but what does brunson mean that if someone reraises him he'll push all in and usually be behind???

I have read this like 10 times and it makes no sense to me how he can be a winning player? I guess ineed someone to tell me what he means by this?
 
27ChicagoTRS
      ID: 19020214
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 09:53 		I play on fulltilt..."mactantrs" generally every night 9pm-11pm
 
28Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 10:30 		Nice do you ever play heads up? I was watching the big tables the other day and I say someone named Vera11 or something win 200k in about 2 hours. It was unreal..
 
29Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 10:33 		Vera called an all in of about 50k after a guy flopped a flush on the turn and with 2 over cards he had 10 10. The guy had 3 6 and on the river a 4th flush card appeared and vera had the higher flush! It was pretty strange I tell you...That same guy went on to lose to Vera another 150K afterwards. Probably was on tilt and vera i hope was playing better than that... Do you think the players on higher limits are a lot better than lower limits or do they just have more money to waste (rich gambling addicts?)!
 
30ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 11:01 		I think the overall skill level improves as you go up higher limits...but there are still terrible players at every limit. I also think there are excellent players at every limit...some .5 - .10 players would probably be big winners at 10-20 if they had the bankroll and will to compete at those levels.

I play headsup occasionally...typically I play multiple tables 2 to 4...and when I play headsup I only like playing one table or maybe one headsup and one regular.
 
31R9
      ID: 361421923
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 13:32 		You can't bet them out, so every hand you don't have something you lose because they'll bet you out, and every time you have a decent hand they'll catch something and then try to bust you on the river?

The way you say that makes it sound as though they win the hands where you have nothing, and win the hands where you have something. That just isn't the case. They'll be dealt the same amount of winning hands as you will, over a decent sample size. The difference between them and you should be that you minimize your losses when behind (by not betting big with junk) and maximize when you are ahead (by betting your good hands strongly.)

Fish wont call with nothing. But they are willing to call big bets with mediocre holdings. (Like K10os on a K-high flop.) So you punish them by betting big when you hold strong hands. Don't let them call for cheap. Make them make the mistake they make over and over again, and definitely make sure you aren't doing the same thing.

If you aren't confident in your hand, try to play a small pot. My friend questioned me the other day when I played my KK rather weak post-flop. The flop came all unders and I got check-raised on the flop by a solid player. I flat-called, and then we checked it down. Other player had QQ. My friend (who loses regularly) berated me for not winning a big pot. What he didn't realize is that more often then not, if I get in a raising war there, I lose a big pot far more often then I win a big one. I'd much rather keep that pot small, and jam pots where I'm in better shape.

So to answer your question: Fish call way too often. That means they call with mediocre holdings alot. Punish that by betting big with big hands, and keeping the pot small on hands where you aren't sure if you're ahead or not. You keep it small by flat-calling small bets instead of raising (so as to not give your opponent a chance to re-raise), folding if the bets are too big, and by betting small amounts when you do decide to bet. Since fish tend to call when in a marginal decision, it can be better to lead out for, say, 5$, and have them call, then it is to check and let them bet 10$. Against aggressive players, you'll get that 5$ bet raised alot, but vs. fish they'll just call far more often.
 
32R9
      ID: 361421923
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 13:41 		but what does brunson mean that if someone reraises him he'll push all in and usually be behind???

For starters, trying to emulate Doyle is a tough, tough task. I don't think thats something you should be trying. But to explain what he means:

Doyle wins alot of small pots by betting and stealing pots where nobody really likes their hand. He often leads out, even with junk, if he thinks everyone else is weak. Since hold'em is a game where more often then not the flop helps no-one, (especially at higher limits where fewer people see the flop) the other players fold to him time and time again. All these small pots add up. (Lets say in this case he makes 10,000$ in small pots over one hour.) By the time he gets into a big hand, all those small pots pay for his gamble. He'll get into a big pot (say, all-in for 10,000$) with a weak hand (say a gutshot straight draw and bottom pair) but because he won 10,000$ uncontested from small pots, he's freerolling with the money he won previously. He's only maybe a 25% favorite to win the hand, but since the 10,000$ is already paid for, its a 25% chance to win 10,000$ that costs him nothing.

Also, because the other players know he's willing to move all-in with such weak hands as gutshot straight draws, middle-pair with a backdoor draw, etc. they avoid playing pots with him unless they love their hand. That helps Doyle pick up even more small pots. So his strategy reinforces itself.

With that said, I question how successful his game would be in today's ultra-agressive online world, especially 6-handed tables. I just question it; I certainly don't condemn it. ;) Doyle's had enough success to earn the benefit of the doubt. I just wonder if enough ajustments can be made to the strategy for it to work against people playing a similar style.
 
33Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 15:30 		i see him being a big loser online too.

this guy at my work had won thousands and thousands of dollars (older guy)... used to be a professional gambler.

he told me that most professional real life players are mediocre online... And it's impossible to compare the two.

To even play a hand in real life you have to expect about half the table jumping in and most the time the raises are at least 10 times the blinds...

I don't know if this is true or not but do you know any great players like phil ivey that actually win online?
 
34R9
      ID: 361421923
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 15:35 		Not really. But then, Ivey (and many others) are used to playing in big, big games. The biggest online is a chump-change game to them, so thats a moot point.

To even play a hand in real life you have to expect about half the table jumping in and most the time the raises are at least 10 times the blinds...

My experience with live play is very limited, and your line defined the games I was in well... but my guess would be that this is the norm only at the low levels like 1/2, 1/3, 2/5 and maybe 5/10. Just like the games at .01/.02, .05/.10 and .10/.25 online.
 
35Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 15:46 		Hey R9,

What's the history of these big online guys that play huge games? I mean if they all play huge games and they are just playing against the best then how do any of them make money? I mean if all the best guys who have all this money to gamble with are playing against each other then how do they all win?? ETC?
 
36R9
      ID: 361421923
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 16:10 		Every level has its fish. The biggest game will still see rich rookies eager to gamble, or guys like that Chicago restraunteur who played on High Stakes Poker, someone happy just for the chance to play against the top players.
 
37Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Feb 27, 2007, 16:45 		R9 what site do you play on and what levels. I'll see if i can find you if youare on full titl.
 
38R9
      ID: 361421923
      Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 05:54 		Pacific, at the 2/4, 3/6, 5/10 and occasionally the 10/20 games. There is usually only one or two games at each level at off-peak hours, so I'll sit at whatever tables are juicy, as a juicy 3/6 game is far more profitable then a semi-tough 5/10 game.

The action is still decent at Pacific, and moving my roll around would be a pain (maximum 10,000$ per month cashout from Pacific) so I've never gotten around to playing at Tilt.
 
39wiggs
      ID: 41152287
      Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 09:04 		is there a site out there that accepts echecks? I hate waiting the 2 weeks for epassport and my credit card does not allow deposits to gaming sites. I pulled all my money when all the bs went down with the shutting down sites, now i cant get it back in.
 
40 ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 09:30 		wiggs...if you have an account on fulltilt where you have already deposited I might have a solution...
 
41wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 12:06 		wow, very poor night. I was either drawn out on or beat set v set atleast 5 times last night. A2 v AK hit his 2, Set of 6 v set of 8s, Aces cracked by a set of jacks on the river. It was a very poor night. I need to reload and hope for better results tonight.
 
42swami
      ID: 430281319
      Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 19:16 		Just sat down, my 2nd hand here. What is your play in this type of a situation?

PokerStars Game #8690586141: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/01 - 19:11:13 (ET)
Table 'Sextans III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: jamesr ($53.50 in chips)
Seat 2: mexicanjr ($24.30 in chips)
Seat 3: DaSwam ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 4: PassTheSug06 ($56.25 in chips)
Seat 5: _Pfa ($52.50 in chips)
Seat 6: bluffenough ($59.60 in chips)
Seat 7: SpaceofAids ($58.60 in chips)
Seat 8: kjl211 ($34.80 in chips)
Seat 9: Dick Hertz ($26.25 in chips)
DaSwam: posts small blind $0.25
PassTheSug06: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Kh Kd]
_Pfa: folds
bluffenough: calls $0.50
SpaceofAids: folds
kjl211: calls $0.50
Dick Hertz: folds
jamesr: raises $53 to $53.50 and is all-in
mexicanjr: folds
DaSwam: ???
 
43Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 21:05 		I think you gotta call.

Very few people play Aces that way.
The odds say you are a strong favorite.
Of course it would make it easier if you had some sort of history on the guy but without that you have to go with the overwhelming percentages that he is overbetting a lower Pair or AK.
 
44ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 01:50 		easy call on a cash table...double up or reload...

it could be AA...but I think you are ahead well over 50% of the time...add in the fact that even if facing AA you have a 20% chance...gotta call.
 
45R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 12:05 		I'd call as well. I've rarely seen a solid player play AA this way. (Though I have seen it.) Far more often its someone tilting, or someone getting bored, or someone who decided to make a bluff move with the intent of showing it for image reasons, etc. For those reasons I say 'wth' and call.
 
46Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 12:11 		I'm in the "call" category as well. If someone played AA like that right off the bat you tip your cap and reload.
 
47ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 12:15 		If the above case was a deep stack tournament...I think a case could be made for folding KK to a move like that...but in a cash game I can never see folding...
 
48swami
      ID: 75542011
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 13:42 		I called he had AA and I abused his preflop raises for the rest of the night. Earned almost half of the $50 I gave him back.
 
49rockafellerskank
      ID: 49136120
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 19:54 		A question I post of curiosity for those who have poker tracker (or some such program). What hand has won you the most money? What hand has cost you the most? (cash games only)

for me AA is most profitable, AKs (with AKo following in 4th) is most expensive ---- me thinks I overplay these a bit.
 
50R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 20:07 		AA, followed by (in order) KK, AKos, JJ, 99, 1010, KTs, QQ. AKs and AQs are still profitable, though mid-pack for some reason. K10s is propped up by two huge hands, otherwise its mid-pack as well.

My worst hands (in order), all due to 1 or two big hands that I was on the wrong side of: K10os, J6os, KQos, 54s, AJs, QJs.
 
51R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 20:09 		KQos is by far my worst hand though. Of all 6 of my big losing hands, it has earned the most of my 'wtf was I doing' comments.
 
52ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 22:17 		Question about poker tracker...how much work/time does it take you to import hand histories? Does it do it all automatically?

I have kind of avoided the program in the past because it was a PITA to get histories from my previous site but FT histories are pretty automatic.

I am interested in this data.
 
53rockafellerskank
      ID: 49136120
      Fri, Mar 02, 2007, 22:25 		Pretty much automatically. Minimal set up. you can get a trial version and you don't have to pay until you reach X hands. Very worth while. I don't play without it.
 
54ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Sat, Mar 03, 2007, 12:47 		Purchased PT...

KK, AA, QQ, TT, T7s, KQs, 22, AJs, A10s, 77, AKs...in order have been my most profitable...

87s, AKo, A9o, KTo, K9s, QTs, 72o...are least profitable.

Kind of interesting stuff...have 11K hands imported at this point...think I need a lot more before I read too much into the numbers.

+23BB per 100 hands at 10-20NL...which seems sick. +8BB per 100 hands at 5-10NL. Those are the two levels where I have a majority of my play.
 
55R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Mar 03, 2007, 14:35 		Interesting that AKos is so unprofitable for both of you. Where is JJ for you rfs? I assmume its mid-pack for you TRS? AKos and JJ are definitely two of the harder hands to play properly, and I was thinking that I miss some +EV opps by playing them safer, but now I'm not so sure...
 
56ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Sat, Mar 03, 2007, 17:00 		I have a couple big losses with AKo...but my biggest losers are not even close in dollars to my biggest winners. Like a tenth.

JJ is mid pack...would be higher but I took one sick beat after flopping a set.

The position stuff is also interesting...I am profitable in every position except the BB...I was surprised to see how profitable I am in the SB. Seems like I overplay one pair often as that is a big loser. Win only 33% when I go to showdown.
 
57rockafellerskank
      ID: 450122417
      Sat, Mar 03, 2007, 19:52 		BB and SB (slightly) are unprofitable. JJ is 10th best. I have a few big wins with JJ. Perhaps I defend too much in BB?
 
58ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Sat, Mar 03, 2007, 21:30 		BB is just a losing position...the blind bet and having to fold it often just adds up.
 
59Dr. E
      ID: 29161022
      Sun, Mar 04, 2007, 18:32 		i have a question why is 44 super high in the russian hand rankings?
 
60Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Mon, Mar 05, 2007, 15:55 		Do you guys know what i am talking about

the swartzkof rankings? I can't remember but i do remember 4 4 being up there with AA.. i thought it was strange.
 
61KnicksFan
      Sustainer
      ID: 030815418
      Mon, Mar 05, 2007, 16:03 		Maybe you were tilting your head a few degrees to the left when you looked at it.
 
62ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Mar 05, 2007, 22:55 		Tried to make the jump to 25-50 this weekend...bleh...not ready for that...definitely felt it was a different class of player. It is bad when you can google a player name and you come up with a bio and the player is considered a pro. Definitely the major leagues. I did not do horribly...took one beat that really hurt...back to triple A for now.

I think the jump from 5-10 to 10-20 tricked me a little as I immediately had a lot of success...tried to push my luck and found the resistance at 25-50 to be much greater. I think I should be happy at 5-10 and 10-20 for six months or longer. Money is good enough there.
 
63ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 02:15 		party on....my biggest winning hand ever:

The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MactanTRS [9d 9c]
Ph1LLeD1NGUE folds
IRULEALOT calls $20
MactanTRS raises to $90
TheMasterJ33 folds
Martine23 calls $80
McMaaaaath raises to $380
IRULEALOT folds
MactanTRS calls $290
Martine23 has 15 seconds left to act
Martine23 calls $290
*** FLOP *** [6s 9s 3h]
Martine23 checks
McMaaaaath checks
MactanTRS bets $600
Martine23 raises to $1,600, and is all in
McMaaaaath has 15 seconds left to act
McMaaaaath raises to $4,623, and is all in
MactanTRS calls $4,023
McMaaaaath shows [Kh Kd]
MactanTRS shows [9d 9c]
Martine23 shows [Jh Js]
*** TURN *** [6s 9s 3h] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [6s 9s 3h Td] [6c]
McMaaaaath shows two pair, Kings and Sixes
MactanTRS shows a full house, Nines full of Sixes
MactanTRS wins the side pot ($6,046) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
Martine23 shows two pair, Jacks and Sixes
MactanTRS wins the main pot ($5,957) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
Martine23 adds $2,000
McMaaaaath is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12,006 Main pot $5,960. Side pot $6,046. | Rake $3
Board: [6s 9s 3h Td 6c]
Seat 1: IRULEALOT folded before the Flop
Seat 2: MactanTRS showed [9d 9c] and won ($12,003) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
Seat 3: TheMasterJ33 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Martine23 (small blind) showed [Jh Js] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 5: McMaaaaath (big blind) showed [Kh Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 6: Ph1LLeD1NGUE didn't bet (folded)
 
64wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 02:21 		awesome TRS, you keep winning and you can keep me active. I think i might need to improve my bank roll. I will probably email you again tomorrow night. Congrats man.
 
65Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 09:24 		do you guys have some kind of strategy for bank roll...

I started with 300 and decided to limit my games to .5/1 no limit hold em and only playing heads up...

anyways i am up to about $1500 and I am scared that if i take money out i'll lose it all the buy ins are 100 dollars so that's 15 times buy in.. but i really don't want to have to put more money in. Say i take 1200 out and it leaves me with 300. I don't want to have to to deposit another 300... i'd rather try to get up to 3600 and try to keep 1000 in but i just don't know what the correct thing to do is? what do you guys normally do?
 
66ChicagoTRS
      ID: 19020214
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 09:42 		bankroll...if you are playing NL and you are generally a winning player at minimum you should have 20x the max buyin...2k if you are playing .50-1 I would say is the absolute minimum and if you go on any kind of losing streak you may have to drop levels.

Your plan of witdrawing 1200 and leaving yourself with 300 is suicide...you would have to be lucky to not go broke.
 
67Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 11:08 		hmm that's pretty interesting... Wow you must a ton of money in?

I guess that's what i have been doing wrong all along...

So i'll get it to 2000 and then just continue on...

Heads up is a lot more skill and manipulating then the tables. I feel that if you get great at heads up you can make more money than at the multi player tables. A lot more bluffing and it's more like chess... 1v1... you get to know the other person and if you are really good you can read them well.. I suggest you try it chicago.
 
68ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 11:35 		I play heads up some...I like to play the heads up tournaments if I am bored or just feel the need for action. Agreed it is definitely a different game...more trapping...more bluffing...more just dominating the opponent...a lot less about the cards...definite mental game/battle of wills.

I could see why heads up might suit you well...definitely the game to play if you have patience problems or just like action. The most difficult opponent heads up is the ultra aggressive.
 
69Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 11:50 		Nice hand TRS!

Wanna pick your brain on strategy there. You raise a smidge over 4x BB.....small blind calls and then the raise to $380, which was twice that pot at that time.

- Certainly you had to feel your mid-pocket pair was not the best hand when you make that call....
-.....thus, was the thought with your stack that you gamble a bit, realizing if you hit your set (and especially top set!) you are going to get paid off huge?

I am not implying at all that the call was a bad call.....just want to understand your thought process on how you played it.
 
70Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 12:09 		YES I AM ULTRA AGGRESSIVE...

like yesterday the guy raised me with A 9 i bet 3

he raised me to 9 i called...

He bet 15 I raised him to 30 when the cards were a
x x K

the guy then moves all in on me and i call...

he has nothing.. But hit his ace on the river...

but i lost about 100 on the first hand to this one guy because he called all of my bluffs with only a pair of aces.. I did the same thing to him 3 more times with hands and took about 300 from him before he quit...

I usually bet about 4 dollars when i am the D and fold unless i have a raising or godo chasing hand when i am not the dealer...

Works out pretty well. I love play the short stacks and i can raise every hand 2 dollars then i just raise 1 dollar and they fold if they have nothing... so i bet 1 to win 5 or if they call and don't reraise i'll raise 8 the next card and usually they'll fold but it depends on how you feel the guy out.

I won a 50 with 5 5 when i felt a guy bluffed on the river and he had nothing but was chasing his flush draw.
 
71Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 12:10 		oops i had K 10 on the that hand.
 
72ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 12:16 		Species...my thoughts: First I had a good read on McMaaaaath...he was a tight player and his screen name definitely described his play...my $90 raise was a standard pot raise...his $380 was a standard pot reraise. (if you use the FT quick bet buttons.)

I do not really like his reraise but...#1 I KNOW he has AA or KK...I realize I am behind and will shut down if I do not flop a set. #2 he has 5K in front of him and I have him covered. 8 to 1 to hit my set...I figure if I hit it I have a chance at his stack...if either of us only have 2K in front of us I fold preflop. The SB was just a bonus along for the ride.

When the flop went check-check...I debated checking but I wanted to make a feeler bet...give them the rope to hang themselves...obviously my goal is to get all my money in. I thought McMaaaaath might fold after the SB pushed in...he took almost his entire clock...when he pushed in I could not hit call quickly enough...hated sweating the last two cards.
 
73Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 12:43 		Chicago if roles were reversed and you bet with KK. would you of called?
 
74ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Mar 06, 2007, 13:01 		Roles reversed...With the KK I would lead out with a bet on that flop ~900...then it just depends what happens...if the 99 immediately went all-in and the SB called I would like to think I could fold the KK. There is definitely a chance I go broke with the KK it just depends how the action develops. I would have a hard time folding the KK unless I face extreme pressure...there is probably nothing the SB could do that would cause me to fold...but if the 99 who has me covered makes a big overbet I think I could fold. I have folded overpairs on occasion especially when facing pressure from two opponents or a very tight opponent...
 
75ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 01:30 		Another nice little hand...playing a little too big...got off that table quick...

FullTiltPoker Game #1943990692: Table York (6 max) - $50/$100 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:25:01 ET - 2007/03/08
Seat 1: MactanTRS ($9,350)
Seat 2: LucLongley ($9,950)
Seat 3: Layne Flack ($12,390)
Seat 4: MUCKEMSAYUHH ($24,037.50)
Seat 5: Genius28 ($10,197)
Seat 6: NotMeNoWay ($6,273)
MactanTRS posts the small blind of $50
LucLongley posts the big blind of $100
The button is in seat #6
MactanTRS: flol
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MactanTRS [Kh Kd]
Layne Flack folds
MUCKEMSAYUHH folds
Genius28 folds
NotMeNoWay raises to $350
MactanTRS raises to $900
LucLongley has 15 seconds left to act
LucLongley folds
NotMeNoWay calls $550
LucLongley adds $150
*** FLOP *** [Qh 6h Kc]
MactanTRS bets $1,000
NotMeNoWay calls $1,000
*** TURN *** [Qh 6h Kc] [Ts]
MactanTRS bets $2,400
NotMeNoWay raises to $4,373, and is all in
MactanTRS calls $1,973
NotMeNoWay shows [Qd Td]
MactanTRS shows [Kh Kd]
*** RIVER *** [Qh 6h Kc Ts] [Ks]
NotMeNoWay shows two pair, Kings and Queens
MactanTRS shows four of a kind, Kings
MactanTRS wins the pot ($12,643) with four of a kind, Kings
NotMeNoWay is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12,646 | Rake $3
Board: [Qh 6h Kc Ts Ks]
Seat 1: MactanTRS (small blind) showed [Kh Kd] and won ($12,643) with four of a kind, Kings
Seat 2: LucLongley (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Layne Flack didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: MUCKEMSAYUHH didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Genius28 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: NotMeNoWay (button) showed [Qd Td] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
 
76swami
      ID: 430281319
      Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 19:00 		Yikes! Huge hit there. The turn made you golden. He was probably done with the hand if the turn didn't help him.
 
77Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 19:34 		Next time you sit down with LucLongley and he is shortstacked, put him all in and tell him to throw in one of his championship rings ;)
 
78Rob J
      ID: 49214821
      Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 00:55 		How would you play hands like bottom two pair and top and
bottom pair in an NL cash game?
 
79ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 10:21 		bottom two pair and top and bottom pair in an NL cash game?

Depends on the texture of the board...flush draws...straight draws...what street...preflop action...what are the cards...K-J-7 is a lot different than 10-6-3 is a lot different than A-6-2...opponents...

I would say typically I am playing 2 pair pretty aggressively...I want to protect against draws or make them pay to draw on me. I am probably not looking to push all-in and I do not want to face a lot of pressure/reraises...I want to keep the lead and keep my opponent calling. I want to control the size of the pot. If there is a single high card on the board...I may be willing to put more money in hoping the opponent has something like TPTK.

Typically I err on the side of aggression...and am willing to play more aggressive with the risk of getting stacked. I do not worry too much about losing a buy-in on a cash table...reload and try again. You cannot fear the nuts every time you have a strong holding...folding or playing small pots with strong hands is not a recipe for winning cash game poker IMO.

To me that is the big difference between tournaments and cash games...tournaments are finite....cash games are infinite. You do not need to be as cautious in cash games. If you make a mistake or get a "cooler" you can reload and try again. If the buy-in is important to you or you can't stand losing it you are playing too big or do not have a sufficient bankroll.
 
80wiggs
      ID: 60103021
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 01:09 		played in a big tourney tonight, 80+ players, had an interesting hand and would like to see what you think about it. they pay top 8 were down to 10 players. I was 2nd short stack with 21000 chips, blinds were 4000 2000 I was on the button with pocket 7s. short stack went all in for 5000 total 3 callers. Then I was up. What do you do here?
 
81Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 01:57 		I think you need to fold.
With 4 players in the pot already your chances of having your 7s hold up is very slim.
You are probably going to lose a quarter of your stack.
Heads up 7s are at least 50-50....but in a multipot you either hit your set or lose.
There is a good chance the short stack will get eliminated and a decent enough possibility that someone else goes with him.
I know it is tempting but you need to stick with the safer odds.
Once you get in the money you can take more risks....you have come too far to leave with nothing.
 
82Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 11:31 		I agree with Weykool. The odds that 77 holds up in a 5 sided hand aren't enough to over come the fact that sitting out could put you into the money.

Isn't there a possibility that someone behind you raises, thus leading to an all-in decision before the flop for you?
 
83wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 11:42 		I probably should have also mentioned that I had an extremely tight rep at the table, which I had been working on all night for a moment just like this.

I decided to push all in causing the other 3 to fold, 1 guy folded 46 offsuit or so he said, 1 guy pocket 9s and the other AQ offsuit. I went heads up with the small stack for his all in, he turned up K7 and I took him out. Flop was AQ4 rainbow, then 7 river 2. The whole table went nuts as to why i wouldnt just check it down and get the small stack out. My thoughts were I needed to isolate the small stack or I would be the next small stack and they would do the same thing to me the next time I pushed. AQ went nuts saying he would have flopped 2 pair and I said that is exactly why i pushed, I didnt want you in the hand with your over cards. It worked out because I went on to finish 3rd in the tourney winning 784 dollars. Thanks for your advise though, it will help me for the future. I appriciate it.
 
84wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 11:45 		Oh yeah, my other thoughts about the all in were I knew everyone was folding to get to the money so I figured it was my shot to steal some blinds and the original calls.
 
85Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Sun, Mar 11, 2007, 12:08 		The whole table went nuts as to why i wouldnt just check it down and get the small stack out.
I always like it when they get mad for getting them out of them pot.
Im always wanting to say: "excuse me....this isnt a team thing......to win...I need ALL the chips".
I understand when your stacks are about equal and the player is all in on a very short stack.
But in this situation if you can get the others out and only have 2 or 3 in the pot your odds are much better.
 
86ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 01:28 		After reading your initial scenario...my question would be...are you there to make the money (7th-8th place) or do you want to win?

I think if you are playing for first you push in...if you want to try and get in the money you fold. Your stack was just large enough that you still had enough fold equity (and it worked for you even better than I thought...I would have thought you would get at least one more caller)...but another time or two through the blinds and noone would fear you. I think it was a good play.
 
87wiggs
      ID: 47228127
      Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 09:32 		I was definately playing for the win. The way the money was broken down you needed to finish top 5 to make any money.

This AQ guy was so mad, I said to him, I could give a crap if I finish 10 or 9th, I want to win this thing and if we knock out the small stack I become the small stack and I get the target on my back. I simply wanted you to fold, because I knew you would and it worked out for me. Funny thing is AQ ended up finishing 9th, just out of the money. I think i put him on tilt because he pushed in the next hand with K8 preflop.
 
88R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 19:29 		I decide to make a play preflop, get a half-decent flop to it, and look what my 3 callers flop. lol! Oh, how I wish that flop betting had been different and allowed me to get pot-committed somehow... ;)

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 10736117 *****
$2/$4 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 03 13 05:18:53 2007
Table La Estrella Cubana - Rosado (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 10: Gianni67 ( $432.2 )
Seat 3: Smoske ( $319.7 )
Seat 6: grinded ( $393.1 )
Seat 7: kenalpa ( $430.4 )
Seat 8: MartenL ( $755.5 )
Seat 9: RNiner ( $400 )
Smoske posts small blind [$2].
grinded posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RNiner [ 7c 9h ]
kenalpa folds.
MartenL folds.
RNiner raises [$16].
Gianni67 calls [$16].
Smoske calls [$14].
grinded calls [$12].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 7d, 6d ]
Smoske bets [$12].
grinded raises [$36].
RNiner calls [$36].
Gianni67 raises [$76].
Smoske calls [$64].
grinded raises [$341.1].
RNiner folds.
Gianni67 raises [$340.2].
Smoske calls [$227.7].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 10c ]
** Summary **
Gianni67 shows [ 8h 8c ].
Smoske shows [ 7s 7h ].
grinded shows [ 6h 6c ].
Gianni67 shows [ 8h 8c ].
Gianni67 collected [$1007.1].
Gianni67 collected [$146.8].
Gianni67 collected [$39.1].
 
89ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Thu, Mar 15, 2007, 13:58 		wow I have never seen a three set flop...

You might have been getting odds to make that call especially if you knew all three were going to push in.

You were 30% to win if you call...8s were 63%...7s were 0% (doh! flop a set and no chance)...6s were 5%.
 
90wiggs
      ID: 41152287
      Thu, Mar 15, 2007, 16:07 		bad tourney for me last night. Live tourney 55 players pays top 6. We get to the final table I am 3rd in chips and cruising to a pay day. I get dealt queens on the button, we had 6 limpers blinds were 6000 3000 so I pushed all in thinking people would just fold and I would take down about 4400 in blinds and limpers. I got called by big stack with qj offsuit and he flopped the straight. Not good. After that I jumped in a cash game and lost 3 straight hands for 200 dollars.

1st hand I have KQ offsuit limped in, flopped broadway with 2 hearts. Guy goes all in for 54, I beat him to the pot, he turns over 22 1 heart catches runner runner hearts to win the pot.

next hand I have AK hearts flopped the flush guy goes all in for 87 dollars, i call immediately and he turns up 2 pair and catches a river boat.

Last hand I get AQ raise to 12 got a call. Flop AQ7, I go all in called by j10 and catches his king. 3 hands -200 dollars. I then took a walk.
 
91Weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Thu, Mar 15, 2007, 19:51 		I was in a 3 set flop once A-7-5.
I had the friggin 7's.

 
92Donkey Hunter
      Sustainer
      ID: 916288962
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 11:01 		You guys didn't watch the Rob and Amber poker show? First hand of a WSOP circuit event Rob flops trip 9s I think on a Q-9-4 flop, everybody ends up all in with trips and he catches his case 9 to triple up on the first hand.
 
93Species
      ID: 532261411
      Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 12:41 		Sounds like my night in Phoenix on Wednesday wiggs. 170 player tourney, down to 40 and blinds are 400-800. I have roughly 8500 in chips (maybe 20% above average) and the blinds are about ready to go up to 500 - 1000.

Someone goes all in and I have 10 10 in middle position. This player had gotten away with some marginal all-ins (IMO) so I called for about half my stack. Behind me a lady goes all in for less than the original bet. Original all in has AQo and the other lady has AJo.

Flop gomes K 10 9 giving me a set and them each with a gutshot - but they each have their outs so there are 6 total outs to beat me....while I of course have the same 6 outs for the full house. Turn is an ace, which is a blank. River J so the original jackass triples up and I have only 4000 left just when the blinds go up to 500-1000. Went all in with A9s one hand before the BB and lost to 77.
 
94Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 09:26 		I just got back from my trip to Vegas and I don't feel that I was out of my league playing at a 1-2 table. There were obviously some people who had only seen poker played on TV and dumped money and left, but I ended up down for the trip.

2 key reasons why I ended up down were.

1. Know when you should walk away. Playing when you are extremely tired, is a good way to lose money. 2 of the 4 sessions I played I stayed to long and lost some hands that I made dumb mistakes from being tired.

2. Know if the house has any special rewards. I didn't know the first night, but I got busted twice when I lost to sets. I think I lost with bot AK suited and QQ suited when I made agressive bets before the flop and got a couple of callers. The house has special jackpots, normally between $250-$500 if you hit a 4 of a kind with 2 in your hand. You couldn't push people off of any pocket pair. After I realized this, I learned to watch out for it.


Probably the most interesting hand I had was getting dealt Jx in the BB blind and having 4-5 limpers (fairly normal) and having the flop come up JJJ. I had just ordered a RedBull and I thought my heart was going to explode. So with about $12 in the pot someone bets $60.

I couldn't decide between calling and or reraising. I went with the reraise and reraised $180. I was hoping to get a call, he thought I was trying to buy his bet, but he folded. I might have gotten a little more with just a call, but I was hoping he would go all-in trying to come over the top.
 
95wiggs
      ID: 47228127
      Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 09:53 		Awful day of poker yesterday. I was sitting at a 1 2 no limit game, 200 max buy in. Played flawless for about 4 hours, was up to 590 total when I got dealt J 10 of spades. Flop came out 89 spades q hearts. I bet 17 into a 17 pot, got a caller, then a raiser went to 100, followed by an all in to 249, I called immediately, next guy thinks for a little bit and calls last guy reraised to 400 total putting him all in. I call. I show my straight, next guy shows AQ (top pair) 100 raiser shows q of spades 3H, and 249 raiser shows 2 medium spades. Turn was a 6 of spades and river was an A of Spades giving him a queen high flush and me a j high flush. I lost the whole pot after flopping the nut straight.

Very next hand I get AK hearts raise to 12 got 1 caller. flop came out q62 hearts, I check he bet 25, I raised to 75 he went all in, putting me all in for 190ish total. I called. He turns 2 pair and rivered the boat.

I rebuy for 200 more, 3rd hand I get jj, I forget exactly how it went, but flop was j66, I check, button raised to 25 i think, I called, turn was a 2, I check he raised 50 or 60, I called. River was a 3, I check, he puts me all in, I call with confidence. He had pocket 6s for quads.

More people told me to shake it off then I wanted to hear. I had an awful feeling the whole ride home. It was awful.
 
96Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 10:17 		wiggs, you playing at Turning Stone?

and yeah, I've had more than enough awful feelings lately.

I'll be in Vegas for 36hrs starting Friday morning. Can't wait to take my share of river beats.
 
97wiggs
      ID: 47228127
      Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 10:34 		yeah TS, I have been going about 2 days a week. I have done very well there, but I have had some tough beats.

I was supposed to go to vegas this week with one of my buddies, btu the trip was cancelled because his GF is real sick and in the hospital so it has been delayed.
 
98Rob J
      ID: 49214821
      Wed, Mar 21, 2007, 00:50 		Tony- curious how you'd play a strong top pair or over pair with
the board paired? (ie: a hand like AK when the flop is KTT or AA
when the flop is 55x) Also lets assume you have 3-4 opponents. I
know position (obviously) is a big factor here too. I guess I'm just
trying to weigh the odds of being up against the trips and how to
play such hands because it's something I think I can improve upon.
 
99ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Wed, Mar 21, 2007, 11:01 		I have a hard time letting go of over pairs...and I think it is right to play them strong in most cases.

In your examples...with AK on a KTT board I am going to play very cautiously and try to limit the size of the pot as best I can...check call or make a weak lead...I will probably fold to very aggressive betting. Depends on position...if I am on the button and it gets checked to me...I would make a pot size bet and try and take down the pot...if anyone calls or gets aggressive back I am going to fold or really slow down. I am learning I flippin hate AK...I either win small pots or lose big pots with that hand...a bad combination.

With the AA and a 55x board...I am not getting away from that hand. I am likely playing a big pot and if he has a third 5 so be it he takes my stack. I rarely play AA weakly preflop so hopefully I am not facing multiple opponents because I would have either raised or reraised preflop or maybe cold called if it is already isolated to one raiser (caught a guy with QQ yesterday using this tactic...if I would have reraised him preflop he could have put me on KK or AA but since I just cold called from the button with AA when the flop came all under he was willing to commit his stack). Looking at my stats I win like 95% of the time I hold AA and 88% of the time I go to showdown so most times I think it would be a mistake to play small or even think about folding unless it is a very ugly flop and you face betting from multiple opponents or betting from a known tight player with a scary board or obvious flush/straight boards...
 
100tommyd7878
      ID: 16728922
      Wed, Mar 21, 2007, 15:44 		Agree with the AK comment TRS it is becoming my most hated hand.
 
101swami
      ID: 430281319
      Tue, Mar 27, 2007, 23:23 		Sick beat here. I was hoping he just had the nut flush and not the 8. I was a little surprised to see 86o as an open limp on the button. The reason for the post is to pose the following question:

Do you call if the bigger stack shoves the river or check/raises here?

PokerStars Game #9124542271: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/03/27 - 23:07:08 (ET)
Table 'Lucifer' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: HelmutK8 ($23.05 in chips)
Seat 2: ace523 ($89.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Dofr ($99.80 in chips)
Seat 5: 1tuffcall ($57.60 in chips)
Seat 6: goodlayydown ($140.65 in chips)
Seat 7: DaSwam ($124 in chips)
Seat 8: KarlSpakler ($117.10 in chips)
Seat 9: rebuyer ($65.85 in chips)
goodlayydown: posts small blind $0.50
DaSwam: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Tc 3c]
KarlSpakler: folds
rebuyer: folds
HelmutK8: folds
ace523: folds
Dofr: folds
1tuffcall: calls $1
goodlayydown: calls $0.50
DaSwam: checks
*** FLOP *** [5c 7c 6c]
goodlayydown: checks
DaSwam: bets $3
1tuffcall: calls $3
goodlayydown: calls $3
*** TURN *** [5c 7c 6c] [4c]
goodlayydown: checks
DaSwam: bets $7
PokerPro218 joins the table at seat #4
1tuffcall: calls $7
goodlayydown: calls $7
*** RIVER *** [5c 7c 6c 4c] [4h]
goodlayydown: bets $13
DaSwam: raises $22 to $35
1tuffcall: raises $11.60 to $46.60 and is all-in
goodlayydown: folds
DaSwam: calls $11.60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
1tuffcall: shows [8c 6d] (a straight flush, Four to Eight)
DaSwam: shows [Tc 3c] (a straight flush, Three to Seven)
1tuffcall collected $136.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $139.20 | Rake $3
Board [5c 7c 6c 4c 4h]
Seat 5: 1tuffcall (button) showed [8c 6d] and won ($136.20) with a straight flush, Four to Eight
Seat 6: goodlayydown (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 7: DaSwam (big blind) showed [Tc 3c] and lost with a straight flush, Three to Seven
 
102ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Fri, Mar 30, 2007, 00:03 		Here is a sick hand for you to digest...
Full Tilt Poker Game #2098992740: Table Oakmont (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:58:53 ET - 2007/03/29
Seat 1: E Tyme ($2,060)
Seat 2: A-DO-GA101 ($2,597.25)
Seat 3: 6 feet under ($2,000)
Seat 4: dukeblows333 ($1,000)
Seat 5: MavFish ($3,490.25)
Seat 6: MactanTRS ($2,628.50)
E Tyme posts the small blind of $10
A-DO-GA101 posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MactanTRS [9c Td]
6 feet under folds
dukeblows333 folds
MavFish raises to $70
MactanTRS folds
E Tyme raises to $230
A-DO-GA101 folds
MavFish has 15 seconds left to act
MavFish calls $160
*** FLOP *** [3s 7c 2s]
E Tyme bets $380
MavFish raises to $820
E Tyme raises to $1,830, and is all in
MavFish calls $1,010
E Tyme shows [Ks Kh]
MavFish shows [2h 3h]
*** TURN *** [3s 7c 2s] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [3s 7c 2s 2c] [6s]
E Tyme shows two pair, Kings and Twos
MavFish shows a full house, Twos full of Threes
MavFish wins the pot ($4,137) with a full house, Twos full of Threes
E Tyme is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4,140 | Rake $3
Board: [3s 7c 2s 2c 6s]
Seat 1: E Tyme (small blind) showed [Ks Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Twos
Seat 2: A-DO-GA101 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: 6 feet under didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: dukeblows333 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: MavFish showed [2h 3h] and won ($4,137) with a full house, Twos full of Threes
Seat 6: MactanTRS (button) didn't bet (folded)
 
103Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Mar 30, 2007, 01:19 		Man that is F'd up!
 
104rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Fri, Mar 30, 2007, 10:27 		I dunno. He could have gotten away from KK when raised to $820. Maybe thought we was against 777 set. Certainly don't expect 2-3 (but it was suited!)
 
105R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Apr 01, 2007, 23:53 		I love it. 23s may be a small s-connector, but for 160$ preflop for a chance at his stack, wth not?
 
106R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 04:34 		Anyone else planning on being in Vegas during the WSOP? I'm probably going to be there ~ mid-june, looking to play in one of the 1,500 or 2,000 NL 3-day events.

Also, just so I'm informed, how would I go about getting an ITIN as a foreign player?
 
107ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 11:52 		I will be playing in NLHE Event #47 $2000 buy-in June 29th... Headed there for a bachelor party that weekend and planned on paying to play in that event...did one better...yesterday on a lark I entered a satelite on FT and won a 2K WSOP buyin...so now I will be playing in the event for $75 :-)
 
108beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 19:52 		I plan on playing in at least 3-4 events plus the main event. I wanted to stay out there the whole time the WSOP was going on but I have 3 weddings to attend in June.
 
109ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 00:53 		Here is a sick little hand...I guess that is what I get for getting a little frisky:

FullTiltPoker Game #2220797331: Table Larson (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:04:32 ET - 2007/04/15
Seat 1: gotdenutz11 ($884)
Seat 2: MactanTRS ($1,786)
Seat 3: washout2006 ($803.80)
Seat 4: GhostRideIt ($2,171)
Seat 5: MUCKEMSAYUHH ($2,150)
Seat 6: Storkdelamork ($7,327)
washout2006 posts the small blind of $10
GhostRideIt posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MactanTRS [6s 4s]
MUCKEMSAYUHH folds
Storkdelamork folds
gotdenutz11 folds
MactanTRS raises to $70
washout2006 folds
GhostRideIt raises to $230
MactanTRS calls $160
*** FLOP *** [4h 4d 6d]
GhostRideIt bets $300
MactanTRS calls $300
*** TURN *** [4h 4d 6d] [Ks]
GhostRideIt bets $1,641, and is all in
MactanTRS calls $1,256, and is all in
GhostRideIt shows [Js Jc]
MactanTRS shows [6s 4s]
Uncalled bet of $385 returned to GhostRideIt
*** RIVER *** [4h 4d 6d Ks] [Jh]
GhostRideIt shows a full house, Jacks full of Fours
MactanTRS shows a full house, Fours full of Sixes
GhostRideIt wins the pot ($3,579) with a full house, Jacks full of Fours
MactanTRS: no
MactanTRS is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3,582 | Rake $3
Board: [4h 4d 6d Ks Jh]
Seat 1: gotdenutz11 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: MactanTRS (button) showed [6s 4s] and lost with a full house, Fours full of Sixes
Seat 3: washout2006 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: GhostRideIt (big blind) showed [Js Jc] and won ($3,579) with a full house, Jacks full of Fours
Seat 5: MUCKEMSAYUHH didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Storkdelamork didn't bet (folded)
 
110R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 19:20 		What a terrible turn bet. Brutal game sometimes, but vnh TRS.
 
111R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 06:54 		bmd, you planning on playing any non-NLHE events?
 
112beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 14:25 		Most likely. I think I'm going to make 2 trips out to Vegas during the WSOP. The first weekend of the series is going to have a ton of dead money so I plan on flying out for events 3,4 and 6(all $1500 holdem events). After that I'd like to come back on the June 24th and stay until the I bust out of the main event. There are a couple of Omaha and 7 card stud events during that time that I want to play.

Hopefully, we can have some sort of gurupie meet up out there.
 
113beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 19:33 		So I was bored with my normal routine of SNG's so I decided to enter the same WSOP satellite, the 30+3 rebuy at 15:00 ET, that I won last year to get my seat. I hadn't played in any cash satellites for the world series yet this year. Well after winning a few key coinflips and having all my big hands hold up I took down 1st and the main event package.

Here's the last hand of the tourney. I totally dominated heads up play and had my opponent very flustered. Notice how many big blinds were in play, the final table played extremely fast.

PokerStars Game #9506897248: Tournament #47667361, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (2000/4000) - 2007/04/19 - 18:47:17 (ET)
Table '47667361 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: 1spursfan (116038 in chips)
Seat 7: beastiemiked (499962 in chips)
1spursfan: posts the ante 200
beastiemiked: posts the ante 200
beastiemiked: posts small blind 2000
1spursfan: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to beastiemiked [9d Kh]
beastiemiked: calls 2000
1spursfan: raises 8000 to 12000
beastiemiked: calls 8000
*** FLOP *** [7d 7c 9c]
1spursfan: bets 12000
beastiemiked: raises 28000 to 40000
1spursfan: raises 63838 to 103838 and is all-in
beastiemiked: calls 63838
*** TURN *** [7d 7c 9c] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [7d 7c 9c Td] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
1spursfan: shows [2c Ah] (a pair of Sevens)
beastiemiked: shows [9d Kh] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
beastiemiked collected 232076 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 232076 | Rake 0
Board [7d 7c 9c Td 4c]
Seat 1: 1spursfan (big blind) showed [2c Ah] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 7: beastiemiked (button) (small blind) showed [9d Kh] and won (232076) with two pair, Nines and Sevens

 
114Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 19:54 		Congrats bmd. That is beyond sweet. Nice afternoon's work.
 
115R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Apr 21, 2007, 15:05 		Pretty sick bmd, congrats!

I'm booked at Bellagio from the 29th May to June 8th, and I'll be playing events 3 and 10 with some 2-5 and 5-10 nl in between. Can't wait!
 
116ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 22:18 		nice job...congrats...
 
117R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 06:56 		#Game No : 12362965
***** Pacific Hand History for Game 12362965 *****
$2/$4 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 04 23 06:43:16 2007
Table VS Primeros (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: MugOfAle ( $774 )
Seat 1: Rexx1234 ( $66 )
Seat 2: jambo246 ( $381.4 )
Seat 3: ade1124 ( $481.6 )
Seat 4: RNiner ( $393.6 )
Seat 5: Aran ( $444 )
Seat 6: Pummi81 ( $400 )
Seat 7: zigza6 ( $132 )
Seat 8: Varghane ( $400 )
Seat 9: stinkyb ( $413.5 )
Rexx1234 posts small blind [$2].
jambo246 posts big blind [$4].
Varghane posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RNiner [ 7h 8h ]
ade1124 folds.
RNiner calls [$4].
Aran calls [$4].
Pummi81 raises [$16].
zigza6 folds.
Varghane folds.
stinkyb folds.
MugOfAle calls [$16].
Rexx1234 calls [$14].
jambo246 folds.
RNiner calls [$12].
Aran calls [$12].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 6h, Jh ]
Rexx1234 checks.
RNiner ???

How would you guys play this one?
 
118R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 07:01 		A bit of player info.

Pummi is a 41/9 loose-agressive.
MugOfAle is a solid 24/6 T/A.
Rexx is a typical fish and Aran is a semi-rock (11/2 but agressive when in).
 
119rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 10:49 		I think hands you have to worry about are a bigger flopped flush (if that happens, tip your cap and you probably pay off unless 4th heart comes and you realize your dead), a set of jacks, and a solo Ah or Kh and someone willing to draw on you.

I'd bet $60 (75% of pot) and see what happens. Can't say what my next step is until I see who folds/flat calls, raises.

I'd be prepared to bail out of the board pairs or any 4th heart comes. At least check and try to play a smaller pot.

You're out of position, but I'd keep firing on the turn (100% of pot) unless the turn brings one of those danger cards.

Of course, you run the risk of not getting full value for your flopped flush if everyone folds. But, if they are paying attention, perhaps a $60 bet is how one would play a set trying to protect or a huge draw AhKoff
 
120beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 12:31 		I think you have to lead out as having it checked through really sucks. Your hand is too vulnerable for a C/C and a C/R folds too many weaker hands out.

 
121R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:20 		I agree with leading out. I was debating how much, and decided to lowball it hoping preflop raiser Pummi would be his usual L/A self and raise my weakness.

RNiner bets [$35].
Aran folds.
Pummi81 calls [$35].
MugOfAle raises [$125].
Rexx1234 folds.
RNiner ???

Not what I was expecting from either player. What weight do you give to these options?

1) Shove
2) Re-raise, maybe ~250
3) Call
4) Fold

I gave thought to just about all of these, realizing I had no idea where I was.
 
122ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 15:00 		I would make a pot to near pot lead...when you get reraised realistically if I am playing 2-4NL in your spot I shove and expect to see a set(15%) or big flush draw(40%) or maybe I am beat by a higher made flush (30%) and the last 15% would be overpair/2pair/bluff-fold. Just find it very hard to get away from a flopped flush and am all for getting all of my money in...now if Pummi reraised and MOA pushed all-in then I consider folding but it is still a tough fold.
 
123beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 15:48 		Eww, I hate the small reraise by Mug. There's no way he's got two pair and I really doubt he does this with a naked A or K of hearts. However, I think he has a set or pair + flush draw here enough to make shoving a must. If we had position or we were deeper I wouldn't mind calling.
 
124R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 19:54 		Was thinking along the same lines.

RNiner raises [$342.6].
Pummi81 raises [$349].
MugOfAle calls [$259].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2c ]
** Summary **
MugOfAle shows [ 5h 4h ].
RNiner shows [ 7h 8h ].
Pummi81 shows [ Kh Ah ].
MugOfAle shows [ 5h 4h ].
RNiner shows [ 7h 8h ].
Pummi81 shows [ Kh Ah ].
Pummi81 collected [$1216.8].
Pummi81 collected [$12.8].

Not much I could do, but I wanted to post the hand because:

1) I was partially lost on the flop, and wanted a 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. :) opinion;

and

2) I was wondering if the way others played the hand would've let me get away from losing my stack. Doesn't look like it so far. Thanks for the replies!
 
125tommyd7878
      ID: 16728922
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 22:47 		Online poker is rigged!!!! LOL (BTW I'm just kidding.
 
126ChicagoTRS
      ID: 249542719
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 23:19 		Just the nature of NL...sometimes you are going to lose your stack. You are going to have hands you simply can't get away from unless it is very deep stacks. Set over set, flush over flush, fullhouse vs higher fullhouse or 4 of a kind, flopped set vs flopped straight, etc...if you are not losing your stack in those situations you are probably playing too tight.
 
127swami
      ID: 75542011
      Wed, Apr 25, 2007, 13:48 		I think you go broke with your position on the hand. You played the aggressor on the flop twice

Another angle to take is what do you do with Mug's hand with two allins in front of you? I guess he was the only one with an out (only 2h, but he has to think he's beat there, no? He only has about 20% of his stack invested and now has two people coming over the top all-in at him.

I don't see that as an easy fold, but one that could be made. Thoughts?
 
128R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Apr 25, 2007, 17:18 		I was surprised to see Mug call with a baby flush. I figured he had a set when he called. But, when Pummi quickly stayed in the pot after my all-in I put him on a big flush or set. His M/O is to raise raise raise, so his call was slightly abnormal to begin with, and his quick all-in should've signified to Mug that he was against a monster.

Mug had to have put one of us on a higher flush though, IF he was paying attention properly. He's a regular multi-tabler, and I find many MT players miss out on alot of info like this, and play very mechanically.
 
129rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Sun, Apr 29, 2007, 12:26 		Question:

What is your preference? Let's say your going to join an online 6-handed NL game where the buy is is $100 to $800. And, you are going to sit with the $800 max. Knowing nothing more would you prefer:

A) 5 short stacked players ($100-$200 stacks) VS your $800?

or

B) 5 big stacks ($800 to $1500+ meaning they have won to chip up) VS your $800 stack?

Of course there are obvious pro's and con's, but I'm curious what you guys like? bmd, TRS, R9, etc.. ?
 
130R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Apr 29, 2007, 16:10 		I would lean towards B, especially a deep-stacked table, as being more fun, but A being more profitable and boring. Most short-stacks I play against are terrible players who play until they lose their stack. As such, I just sit back and wait for a hand. Very mechanical, boring play. Against the deep stacks, usually a table like that is full of solid players which requires deeper thinking to be a winner. Bluffing, representing hands, image, etc. all take over and make the game fun. Of course there are exceptions to both, as there are dumbass full stackers and some solid short stackers, but overall the generalization holds.

So to answer your question, whichever mood I'm in. If I'm going to be playing while writing a paper, watching a game or in front of friends, A. If I'm playing for fun with no distractions, and I'm in my best frame of mind, B. On top of that, sometimes the only game or two going is a majority of one type, and I don't really have a choice.
 
131ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Apr 30, 2007, 10:14 		Personally I would always sit down at table B...I want to play at a table where I have a good chance of doubling up. Plus just because a player has over the buyin does not mean they are good. Playing against shortstacks limits your options.
 
132beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Mon, Apr 30, 2007, 13:17 		I'd personally prefer to play as the short stack. Since I play mainly SNG's I feel I have a much better feel for short stack play than regular cash game players. Obviously, if the blinds are still low in A, say .5/1, or high in B, 4/8 than the relative stack sizes really aren't a factor.
 
133rockafellerskank
      ID: 450122417
      Mon, Apr 30, 2007, 14:22 		Until recently, the criteria I used to select my tables was:

a) known fish & donkeys
b) avg pot size (wanted large)
c) % seeing flop (wanted high %)

But, this past week, I experimented with playing small stack tables regardless of other factors (at my level). As players came/went and earned or brought bigger stacks. I left to find more small stack tables unless the game was really juicy.

I'd have to check to make sure, but I think last week was the single most profitable online week I've ever had. 7 winning days, 85+% of table sessions winners.

I agree with R9, that the game was dull/basic/boring, and had a lot of tournament style all-in short stacks which were easy to pick off, but I do actually play to make money. I was just interested in your thoughts.
 
134R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 30, 2007, 15:13 		I should expand on the 'fun' part. Sometimes, especially after having spent alot of $, making $ is the most fun thing I can do. Other times, especially if I've been hot or playing alot of boring poker, playing against better (and more challenging) players is more fun.

So if you're at a point where making $ is fun, then more mechanical play is just a side effect of having fun. Nothing wrong with that at all, and is a mindset I have have a high % of the time.
 
135Donkey Hunter
      ID: 1444646
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 08:59 		Anyone have any idea why I would be able to play on full tilt on my laptop but on my desktop it is "unable to connect to server"? Searched the web and could not find anything saying what settings I may need to change.
 
136rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 09:10 		1) Did you log off on your laptop first?
2) Does your desktop have a firewall (or is it a work PC)?
3) try to remove and re-download the software.

Those are the only 3 things I can think of....

 
137R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 14:31 		Cant think of anything client-side that would be affected, so it must be something with your desktop. Those 3 things rfs listed as well as ISP, internet connection or router issues, are likely the culprit.
 
138R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 14:32 		Forgot to ask, is the laptop and desktop side-by-side when you try? (Meaning the same connection is being used?) Or is the laptop at work/friends house while the desktop is at home?
 
139Donkey Hunter
      ID: 45428417
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 19:56 		Got it working. Not sure how but turned the computer off and unplugged the modem and router. Something in there must have been causing a problem but I can't imagine what.
 
140R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 20:02 		I have to do that about twice a day. I think my router is starting to go...
 
141Donkey Hunter
      ID: 45428417
      Sat, May 05, 2007, 03:20 		Ok I have a question for you frequent players. When do you get up from the table? Most of the tables I have been sitting at lately have been overall pretty solid. No obvious donks (excluding myself). Do you get up when you hit a certain dollar amount? After a certain length of time? Do you determine that length of time before you sit down? I always have trouble getting up if I am winning at a table but hate taking a big loss and feeling like I sat too long. On a related note, I sometimes want to get up immediately after winning a big pot but feel that is kinda rude. Do you guys take offense to the hit and runners?
 
142rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Sat, May 05, 2007, 13:40 		I don't pay attention the dollar amount I am up/down. If the table is good (rich with fish, donkeys), I'll play as long as I can. If the table is troublessome with too many good players, I leave. I'm more interested in evaluating my play at the end of the day.. good, bad, ugly.

I could care less about hit and runs. I leave when I leave. Sometimes I play 5-10 mins before work to "relax" and if I win $100 on first hand... oh well, I'm going to work.

I'd say, do what makes YOU comfortable, but I'd advise look for games that are good for you style and stay as long as the make-up is the game, win, lose or draw.

 
143R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, May 06, 2007, 00:33 		I believe my state of mind is the single determinant of how long I play. If I start getting tired after 1/2 hour, I'll leave. If my head is wandering to the movie on TV, I'll quit and go watch that. I only play when I'm in my best frame of mind. If that lasts 3 hours, thats how long I play. It its 15 minutes before a class, so be it.
Being up or down never factors in for me, as I'm always even at the start of every hand.
Other then that, I generally leave a table if I don't feel I can beat a game, or if the effort required to beat it isn't justified. (I table hop alot, as game selection is hugely important.)

I never worry about hitting and running. About a week ago I sat down at a 3/6 NL, 6 handed table with two big fish. I got dealt AA the 2nd hand dealt to me and ended up all-in preflop vs. both fish. (Up against AQos and JJ.) My hand held up, they both left, and thus so did I after only 3 minutes. I had no interest in playing 4 handed with 3 other solid players... Hit and run? I suppose so. Is it rude? Tough. Its a factor in online play, and anyone whining about it is going to be real disappointed when nobody gives a ****. ;)
 
144Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 10:52 		Check out this hand:

I have 9h 10h

NL 1/2

I started with 100 and was up to 370. playing crazy and jumping tables:

I limp in 2 dollars

another guy limps in with 2 dollars

the Button Raises to 12 dollars and has a stack of 400.

I think i can bust him so i call and the other guy only has 14 dollars left so he goes all in...

The flop was:

Qh Jc 4s

my turn. I bet 27.50.

He calls...

The next card is Kd...
So i am thinking all along he has some high pair maybe trips and is slow playing....

Guess what he has?

I bet another 25 and he raises 50... What do i do?
what would you do?
 
145rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:21 		I'd say there is a good chance he on AK and wants to see where he is at. I just can't see playing A-10, but stranger things have happened.

If he had KK, he'd have likely raised you on flop.
A JJJ or QQQ is possible.

I smooth call.

If you push and he has AK, you may let him think he is good. And you only fear a 10 or paired board. You can't push him off a big set anyway, so why not wait for the river for that decision?

If the river is not a 10 or pairs the board, push.
If the river is a 10, check and hope to check it down. If he pushes, you have to fold. If the board pairs, I think same thing.

If he actually played A-10 here, you're toast.
 
146rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:29 		It's also possible he could over-play AA in this situation as he cannot possible put you on 9/10. If so, i say let him overplay it and check raise him if the river is safe.
 
147rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:30 		Now, since you posted this, I will assume this is a beta story, yes? I'll bet he played 44 and the river turned the case 4?
 
148Dr. E
      ID: 520321717
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 18:53 		I go all in and he has A 10 offsuit...


Bam!!
 
149rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Mon, May 14, 2007, 23:55 		Useless stat of the night. I just got around to lading PT on my new laptop so I was checking some stats. I bought PT last August 06 and had some hands stored, but most hand histories had been deleted. Anyway, I have 151,510 hands played. I was curious how often I saw AA as it should be 1/220. I assume 150,000 hands is a large enough sample?

686/151510 = 0.452775%
1/220 = 0.454545%

I should have 688! Online poker is rigged, I tell you! Or, maybe I'm due to AA, AA in the next 2 hands :)

As I said...useless. But, next trip I'm gna skip the movie on the plane and mess with the data base. Do some self assessment. Anyone have any favoirite indicators you like to see?


 
150xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Wed, May 16, 2007, 23:17 		Wow...That is a lot of time spent gambling...What is the average # of hands per hour? 50? If so that translates into 3030 hours or 126 continuous days....Since Aug 06 ?....

I wish I had that much free time!

Seriously though, can your PT track the average time it took the winning and loosing hand in a showdown to act?
 
151rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Wed, May 16, 2007, 23:28 		895.32 total hours averaging 2.31 tables = 152,824 hands as a time, updated through today. (this does not include tourneys, but I only play maybe 1-2 hours per week in tourneys) So, each hand takes on average = 0.351510234 minutes = 170.692 hands /hour divided by 2.31 tables = 73.89265934 hands per hour per tables.

Poker is fun
Numbers are our friends.

 
152R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, May 17, 2007, 02:36 		The stat that I most commonly find myself checking up on alot is the frequency that people continuation bet after a pf raise. Every now and then I find a guy who's at 90-95%, and that is just so exploitable that my brain freezes up at the joy of the potential winnings. :)

Another trend that I've spotted is my VP$IP is rising and my overall aggression is falling, while many of my opponents are going the other way in both. In recent months, I've seen way too many TAG's with over 2.5 aggression posting overall losing totals. (Some are losing quite a bit too.) I've toned down on my aggression and my results have been skyrocketing. Mostly due to better pot control (calling instead of raising to keep the pot small) and disguising my hand (calls, let them bet, etc.). I used to believe the 2+2 hogwash that a 2.00+ aggression factor with a < 20% VP$IP was ultra important. Not so, imho. Poker is much too complicated to adhere to such strict guidelines.

So what I'm mostly trying to say, is definitely evaluate your game, but don't read too much into any set of specific stats. I'm a stathead too, and checking out all the #'s is fun, just for sh!ts and giggles... but I don't let them dictate my play. Sometimes playing 40% VP$IP/1.00 Ag is the best way to win, even if your tracker calls you a fish.

Some fun/wierd stats I have:

- AQos (a hand I despise, especially at full ring) is a bigger earner for me then AKs, one of my favs. Go figure. (only by a smidgen, but I'd have thought AKs was way ahead)

- Pocket 7's is my 6th highest earning hand, while 88 and 55 are barely treading water. After 80,000 hands, that's just downright bizarre. (All other PP's are showing a nice profit, with the bigger pairs earning more of course)

- My BB/100 is inversely related to my total aggression. (True for all levels from 10/20nl down to 2/4nl, and true when I do samples of various days/weeks/months)

- My total rake paid makes me want to puke. ;) (Especially since I have no rakeback deal with Pacific!)

- I'm a net loser in the SB/BB, but in the 'Diff w/o blind' column, the total there is higher then the total in the 'Net Amount' column. That seems rather ridiculous, but haven't given it much thought. Whats yours look like rfs?

- With all the nuts I play with, my blind defending is abysmally low.

- I have yet to be dealt a Royal Flush, even amongst all the hands I've folded. The only one I've 'been a part of' was when it was all on the board, and I had folded pf.
 
153xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Thu, May 17, 2007, 02:36 		My bad. I usually play live games and overlooked the possibility of playing in multiple games simultaneously online.

Poker is fun , but I'll be lucky to get a in a game once a month even though the Bike and Commerce casinos are a short drive away.
 
154tommyd7878
      ID: 16728922
      Sat, May 19, 2007, 15:50 		R9 can you get a rakeback deal with Pacific? I have not signed up there yet but was going to go through Boogster for their promo.
 
155R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, May 20, 2007, 10:43 		I've tried with a number of rakeback sites to get rakeback for my existing account, without any success. I haven't found any site offering rakeback for new accounts either, though I haven't looked too hard as I have an account already.
 
156swami
      ID: 75542011
      Mon, May 21, 2007, 10:12 		How deep and at what level ($50NL, $100NL, $200NL?) do you need to be to get away from a set? I stacked off 125BB at $200NL this weekend when I flopped a set of 5's. He hadn't been at our table long when this hand hit.

I limp/called 4BB pre flop from MP. He checked behind on an Ad9c5h flop and we were all-in on Kd turn. I put him on slow playing AK with no real draws out there on the flop. I felt like his betting patterns were protecting the flush draw that hit the turn. I thought his KK may have hit for a second before I shoved as a check behind makes sense on an A high flop. He showed AAA and I was stuck for $250.
 
157rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Mon, May 21, 2007, 10:21 		I'd have lost my stack there too.
 
158R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, May 21, 2007, 11:23 		Totally read dependent. If you know your opponent well you might have been able to get away from that hand. (Some guys continuation-bet big when they miss, and slowplay flopped monsters. So a check on a A-high flop would seem suspicious, as they would c-bet KK.) But, since you had no read as he was new you're probably not folding a set there, though it could be close with a decent read. If he's a nit, his range is AA, KK, AK, AQ, 99, and maybe a big flush draw played dumb. If he's dumb, his range could be any ace, any flush draw, K9, or a bad bluff.

Set over set though, nothing alot of us do there. Just take note that this guy slowplays monsters.
 
159ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, May 21, 2007, 14:03 		I have never folded a set vs a non straight/flush board...unless you have a ton of history against someone I do not know how you could fold against random internet opponent (in a cash game)
 
160xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Tue, May 22, 2007, 02:17 		#115 R9,

I'll be in Vegas from the 27th till the 31st. The first 2 days I'm entertaining an old friend :) , but the next 2 I plan on getting in some games. I'll be staying across the street of the Bellagio at Planet Hollywood (paid for 2 nights got 2 for free)

What events were u talking about? I can't find a WSOP events on 29-31 of May in LV.
 
161R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, May 22, 2007, 09:34 		WSOP Schedule

I'll be playing in Events 3 and 10, starting on June 2nd and June 6th respectively. I'll be giving some thought to the 1,000$ rebuy on June 5th (event 8), instead of Event 10, in the unlikely event I somehow don't make the final table of Event 2.

Unfortunately, it looks like the events start the day after you leave. :/ Doh! We should still meet up when we're there though, would be nice to meet a few of the RG poker gang. bmd I think will be in town ~ this time as well.
 
162beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Tue, May 22, 2007, 19:55 		I don't think I'm getting out there until the 5th but I'll be there until late July(won't be there June 20th-24 as I'm flying back for a wedding). Might go sooner if I hit some big multi in the next few days. As of now I plan on playing in at least Events #12, 15, 21, 23, 25, and 27. Will most likely be playing some of the 2nd chance events and other tourneys at the V, Bellagio, and the Wynn.
 
163 xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Tue, May 22, 2007, 23:07 		R9

It would be great to meet up in a game or for a brew. I usually play for entertainment when I have nothing else to do. I might not be as experienced or skilled as some here, but I consider my play solid when I have the patience.

My play now-a-days is limited to to 4 to 6 local nl tournaments a year or the occasional 9-18 limit holdem at the Commerce. Out of the 6 tournaments I played in the past year ( $30,$50 and $100 buy ins) I placed on the final table 4 times( 1st, 3rd and 2 5th place finishes out of 150-180 player fields) and got knocked out in the first 30min twice :)

Shoot me an email. We'll exchange cell #'s if you like.
 
164Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, May 23, 2007, 02:24 		xp - with finishes like that at a huge locale like Commerce, you are probably being a bit modest. I've driven past it a dozen times but haven't gone in. How many tables? What games do they spread? Is it nice in there or old and dingy? What kind of crowd does it attract?
 
165RebelFan
      Sustainer
      ID: 014833716
      Wed, May 23, 2007, 13:50 		Commerce is an entertaing card hall. It has everything from 1-2 limit on up. Although the last time I was there the 1-2, 2-4, and 40 no limit were upstairs to a meeting hall like setting. One thing commerce has going for it is its bad beats are very attainable. I think it is aces full of anything losing to any quad. You get less but it pays more often. My only complaint about the place is you get a lot of riff raff at the lower limit games who like to blame the dealers or the other players when they lose so security gets called fairly often. That and a good amount of fights do tend to break out. Still with all of the I certainly enjoying the times I have played there and would reccomend it to others, if for no other reason than the size, which helps in getting a seat even with a good size board
 
166xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 00:22 		Species,

I only played a few nl tournaments at the Commerce since the buy in is usually higher, and they allow multiple rebuys. It can end up costing you upwards of $600. I prefer the Bicycle club casino down the street since the buy in is usually $50 with no rebuys. Like I said, I now prefer to play for entertainment since that is when I do best. I can't afford to part with $300-$600 often. I frequented the commerce when they first openened in the early 80's. They let you deal your own cards for the $0.50 draw and lowball games. There was no Holdem games at the time.

In any case, The Commerce has changed quite a bit since the old days. They claim to be the largest card casino in the world. There at least over 200 tables. Commerce has never been old and dingy. The crowd is a rainbow of social, economic and fashion mix.

With the Hotel addition, the main floor now hosts only the 15-30 limit Holdem games and below, and the $400 NL holdem games and below with your usual assortment of 7 card stud, omaha and pineapple games. The higher limit games are hosted in the hotel lobby now. It is nicer and newer there. The tournaments are usually held in one of the hotel's conference room(s) on the 2nd floor. They also have sit and go's on that level before or during major tournaments. The hotel rooms are decent, nothing special. And if you plan on staying the night there, you can get a discounted rate if you're gambling by asking the floor manager.

As RebelFan noted, you do have a lot of riff raff on the lower end tables, but also a lot of fish. You'll also get your share of Donkeys. So If you plan on playing anything lower than 9-18 limit you might as well plan on having your trips beat on the river by someone chasing the inside straight. But if you go there, Valet park. Forget about parking in the boonies. The few bucks are worth it, but depending on when you leave it might take them 10-15 minutes to get your car. And depending on when you go and unless you know a floorman or a manager,you might have to wait to get in a game.
 
167ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Wed, May 30, 2007, 17:58 		I do not post many bad beat stories but this one got me...

I was playing in this Sundays FullTilt 400K guarantee...~2600 players ~520K prize pool.

We are down to 125 players...I have been as high as second place deep into the tournament...pretty much stayed around 10-25th place throughout. I am currently around 20th with 65K in chips. 1st place had a little more than double my stack but I am still way above average.

I have a very aggressive player to my right with a big stack and I have been waiting patiently to pick him off. Blinds were ~1500-3K with ante...not to sure on the blinds. He raised to 9K and I call his raise with AKs. Flop comes King high...like K-6-4...he immediately shoves all-in. I think for a sec but against this player this is what I have been waiting for and I call all-in. He flips AJ and I am jumping for joy...will move me to 2nd in the tourney...Turn J...River J...WTF!...went and kicked my dog (j/k)...98% favorite on that flop. ugggggh!

First place was like 95K...not that I was going to win the tourney but I liked my chances to get real deep with that stack...would have had the time to be patient and at least move into the top twenty and with a little luck the final table and made a big pay day out of it...oh well.
 
168beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Wed, May 30, 2007, 19:04 		That's rough.

You were in 20th place and only had 20 bb's? That doesn't seem right. If it is the case, I think you need to shove preflop. You miss the flop way too much with AK to be only calling. The ~15k already in the post would look great in your stack.
 
169beastiemiked
      ID: 3101646
      Mon, Jun 04, 2007, 22:05 		R9 and xpdurmind how is/was Vegas? I'm headed out there Wednesday. Currently stranded in Denver as my transmission brokedown on my car. Hopefully, that's not a sign of things to come.
 
170xpdurmind
      ID: 48312323
      Mon, Jun 04, 2007, 23:48 		Vegas was a blast. The gf left a day later than I had planned so I didn't get to do as much poker playing as I had hoped. I called R9 on Wed when I was headed for the Bellagio's poker room around midday, but I didn't hear back from him. I had missed their 11 Am $540 tournament. The place was packed and I didn't want to wait for a game, so I headed for Caesars'. Caesars had a 1-3 NL hold em and a 5 NL 1/2 holdem 1/2 Omaha going. I didn't want to keep changing gears so I got in the 1-3 game. Bought in for $200, left with $600 3 hrs later.

Players were mostly playing tight. Once I established a solid image with a few good hands with showdowns, I was able to push people out with pot sized bets! At least on 5 occasions, 2 different players showed their hands before they mucked it. And each time it was the winning hand :)

I tried the Bellagio poker room again around 8-9 pm it was still packed; spend the rest of the night playing BJ and craps there. I'm not a high roller, If I was I could've walked away with some serious $$$. I was playing at the $15 BJ table when a group of lawyers from Wisconsin in town suing a drug manufacturer sat down and started betting $100 to $1000 a hand. I should've increased my bet more than $50 a hand I started betting out of embarrassment.

The whole table was lucky. We were loud. We were wasted (some more than others).The drinks at the Bellagio were the best; full glasses of premium alcohol were flowing all around. I can't drink in LA because you have to drive anywhere you go. I think I drank more in one day than I did the whole year! One of the lawyers was tipping the dealer $100 a hand. His buddies were taking $500 chips from his stack and hiding it for him.( At least that’s what they told me). The shuffling machine broke down 3 times while we were there. I thought that was weird! Were they trying to slow the game down? Who knows? No one cared as long as we were winning. I was up ~ $1600 when I walked away. They followed suite and while at the cashier's cage I overheard the guy next to me cash out $14,000. And I'm sure the totally wasted lawyer had more chips.

By this time it was around 1 AM and I had missed Caesars' 11 PM NL tournament, so I found myself in one of Bellagio's lounges/clubs where a live band was playing the best rendition of "You Shook Me Baby" I have ever heard. Met more interesting people at that club. Didn’t hit the sack until 7:00 AM.

Without a doubt, my best Vegas experience. It sure beats doing the couple's thing: going to shows and dinners like I did the first 3 days. I guess my next trip I will have to go to the extreme and not hold back. As long as you’re having fun you’re already ahead.

 
171wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Wed, Jun 06, 2007, 09:22 		In September me and 3 of my buddies are going to Vegas for a bachelor party. I am extremely excited about this. We are staying in the bellagio. Anyone have any plans to be out there september 19-24?
 
172rockafellerskank
      ID: 450122417
      Thu, Jun 07, 2007, 12:54 		In case anyone has an account at GamesGrid or any other skillgames network... GO GET YOUR MONEY OUT:

link

They are closing their poker rooms.
 
173swami
      ID: 33432818
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 22:46 		What's the play here? I saw this guy make the min raise preflop earlier and showed JJ, I popped him on the flop using that read. When I hit my magic card he shoves. I tank and fold. Anyway this is not a flush? I laid it down thinking he wouldn't risk his tourney life vs the only stack that could bust him. Thoughts?

PokerStars Game #10341296892: Tournament #51838197, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2007/06/08 - 22:35:52 (ET)
Table '51838197 134' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: SoapyPapoose (30249 in chips)
Seat 2: Marathonfly (19613 in chips)
Seat 3: Qunofhrtz (2387 in chips)
Seat 4: LuckyOB (27640 in chips)
Seat 5: why play (5163 in chips)
Seat 6: puntnko (29406 in chips)
Seat 7: gambler65 (49688 in chips)
Seat 8: Lacey81 (25345 in chips)
Seat 9: DaSwam (57555 in chips)
SoapyPapoose: posts the ante 50
Marathonfly: posts the ante 50
Qunofhrtz: posts the ante 50
LuckyOB: posts the ante 50
why play: posts the ante 50
puntnko: posts the ante 50
gambler65: posts the ante 50
Lacey81: posts the ante 50
DaSwam: posts the ante 50
Qunofhrtz: posts small blind 400
LuckyOB: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [As Kh]
why play: folds
puntnko: folds
gambler65: raises 800 to 1600
Lacey81: folds
DaSwam: calls 1600
SoapyPapoose: folds
Marathonfly: folds
Qunofhrtz: folds
LuckyOB: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [Tc 6h Qc]
LuckyOB: checks
gambler65: bets 2400
DaSwam: raises 4800 to 7200
LuckyOB: folds
gambler65: calls 4800
*** TURN *** [Tc 6h Qc] [Jc]
gambler65: bets 40838 and is all-in
DaSwam: ???
 
174ChicagoTRS
      ID: 344311322
      Sat, Jun 09, 2007, 15:27 		I think that is the right play...I think the best you could possibly hope for is a split pot...and most likely you are beat by a flush or possibly he has AK with a club and a free roll on you. It is an odd play to lead out with a huge overbet...almost a scared bet but I am not sure...I do not think I could call for my tournament life.
 
175wazaaap_guy
      ID: 25530719
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 19:09 		Just wondering if anyone can help me out with putting money into FullTilt. Would anyone be willing to accept a Paypal transfer, and then transfer that money to me on FullTilt? Thanks in advance.
 
176rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 19:24 		I can prolly help. How much are we talking about?
 
177wazaaap_guy
      ID: 25530719
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 19:28 		Only 100
 
178 rockafellerskank
      ID: 51281619
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 19:36 		I can do it. Will take a few hours. I have to move money from AP to e-passport and can then fund FT and transfer to you. I may take several hours. Is that OK
 
179wazaaap_guy
      ID: 25530719
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 19:39 		rfs, that would be fine, and i appreciate it very much. i will email you and we can communicate further then?
 
180swami
      ID: 33432818
      Wed, Jun 13, 2007, 22:23 		rsf is a solid guy, he'll do you right
 
181wazaaap_guy
      ID: 25530719
      Sun, Jun 17, 2007, 23:04 		Thanks again rfs, and thanks ChicagoTRS for also having agreed to help out. I have a question: I won a seat to the 500k tourney next Saturday through a 3+R sngo tourney. Is there any way to unregister from the tourney and pocket the 216? I thought you could do something like this on PokerStars but don't see an option to do it here.

Also for some reason I got a 300 bonus, provided I play the required amount of hands. Is this standard? Like if you don't play for a while, offer the bonus to try and lure you back? Whatever the reason is, I'm not complaining!
 
182Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jun 18, 2007, 13:45 		In the wake of all of the online poker funding/withdrawing hubbub, I don't play for money online any more, preferring to stay on the felt. But recently I started playing PokerStars freerolls just for fun. I had usually stuck with hold 'em but have found myself enjoying Stud and Omaha, and found myself doing very well in Razz during HORSE tourneys.....I assume this is mainly due to people's ignorance of the game.

Anyway, I got sucked into this Limit Stud event and placed in the top 24 out of 4600 to earn an entry into the Round 2 freeroll tourney. It's a fun way to stay sharp and get some experience in new games.
 
183ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Jun 18, 2007, 16:06 		I have been playing a lot of Razz and Omaha lately...I have been playing NL Holdem so poorly that it has been a nice break playing other games. Razz has been especially good as I think the play has to be poor...just a matter of patience and waiting for good starting cards and hope you draw well. I can see how Razz could quickly become a grind and wear on you mentally though...because you are basically always drawing and too many times the draws go bad.
 
184swami
      ID: 75542011
      Fri, Jul 06, 2007, 10:46 		Anyone besides BMD playing in the Main Event this week?
 
185R9
      ID: 21721142
      Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 07:10 		When I run bad, I run bad... :(

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 2076272576 *****
$10/$20 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 08 14 06:17:39 2007
Table Last Mango in Paris (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: RNiner ( $2000 )
Seat 3: josh1879 ( $1106 )
Seat 4: Shatter4 ( $170 )
Seat 5: Kurator ( $1407 )
Seat 6: magpe ( $5888 )
Seat 7: alttek17 ( $476.5 )
Kurator posts small blind [$10].
magpe posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RNiner [ 10s 9s ]
alttek17 folds.
RNiner raises [$60].
josh1879 raises [$140].
Shatter4 folds.
Kurator folds.
magpe folds.
RNiner calls [$80].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, 8d, 6s ]
RNiner checks.
josh1879 bets [$160].
RNiner calls [$160].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
RNiner checks.
josh1879 bets [$320].
RNiner raises [$1700].
josh1879 calls [$486].
** Dealing River ** [ 10d ]
** Summary **
RNiner shows [ 10s 9s ].
josh1879 shows [ Js As ].
RNiner shows [ 10s 9s ].
josh1879 shows [ Js As ].
josh1879 collected [$2238].
RNiner collected [$894].

This was about 4 hands after I had a 3-hand run of JJ, QQ, QQ, all 3-bet preflop, that got flops of QKA (all one suit, neither of my jacks suits of course), KAx and KAx. Both QQ had 2 opponents too. Ok, I'm ready for August to be done!
 
186 KnicksFan
      ID: 551391816
      Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 18:28 		Hey RFS (or someone else with accounts on FT or Absolute), can you help me out with a transfer from Absolute to Full Tilt? The amount is $530. I'm annoyed with all of the BBJ tables Absolute added, so I wanna get outta that site. It would be great if you could help me. I didn't wanna go through twoplustwo to ask for a transfer because I don't trust those guys like I trust everyone here.

Thanks!
 
187wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 22:06 		R9, What are you raising for on that. Unless i am missing something, there is a straight on the board, he already bet the pot, i doubt he is going to get off the hand. all i can figure is you were bluffing the flush.
 
188swami
      ID: 35433017
      Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 22:15 		I hear ya R9. I'm hurtin this month after a huge last month. Tilt sucks...
 
189R9
      ID: 21721142
      Wed, Aug 15, 2007, 03:29 		wiggs; huh? I raised the turn because I knew I had the best hand. ;) I don't want him folding, I want him calling off all his chips. With Ace-high. Which he did. I loved everything that happened in that hand until the river card showed its awful, awful self. :(
 
190wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Wed, Aug 15, 2007, 07:47 		R9, sorry, I misread how the hand was played. I thought you put the money in after the river. Sorry bro.
 
191swami
      ID: 35433017
      Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 15:23 		Just a vent post. How am I supposed to stay off tilt here? I doubled off this retard two hands earlier. Then these two beauties within a few hands:

Full Tilt Poker Game #3290847017: Table Brooks - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:06:59 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 1: i_win_your_cash ($138)
Seat 2: DaSwam ($803)
Seat 3: bansung588 ($386.80)
Seat 4: zeynex ($68.90)
Seat 5: LawmakerDonk ($306.55)
Seat 6: FlyinHawaiin ($400.90)
Seat 7: chislodc ($492.40)
Seat 8: peeeedor ($80)
Seat 9: buddyboy2007 ($160), is sitting out
FlyinHawaiin posts the small blind of $2
chislodc posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Kh Kd]
DaSwam: by A8
i_win_your_cash folds
DaSwam raises to $14
bansung588 folds
zeynex has 15 seconds left to act
zeynex: yer wel my wife just came home n bugged the hell outa me
zeynex raises to $68
LawmakerDonk folds
FlyinHawaiin folds
chislodc folds
DaSwam raises to $803, and is all in
zeynex calls $0.90, and is all in
DaSwam shows [Kh Kd]
zeynex shows [Qs Ts]
Uncalled bet of $734.10 returned to DaSwam
*** FLOP *** [2c 9s 3s]
*** TURN *** [2c 9s 3s] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [2c 9s 3s 4s] [Tc]
DaSwam shows a pair of Kings
zeynex shows a flush, Queen high
DaSwam: LMFAO
zeynex wins the pot ($140.80) with a flush, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $143.80 | Rake $3
Board: [2c 9s 3s 4s Tc]
Seat 1: i_win_your_cash didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: DaSwam showed [Kh Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: bansung588 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: zeynex showed [Qs Ts] and won ($140.80) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 5: LawmakerDonk (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: FlyinHawaiin (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: chislodc (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: peeeedor is sitting out
Seat 9: buddyboy2007 is sitting out

and

Full Tilt Poker Game #3290874110: Table Brooks - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:10:21 ET - 2007/08/18
Seat 2: DaSwam ($730.10)
Seat 3: bansung588 ($445.30)
Seat 4: zeynex ($140.80)
Seat 5: LawmakerDonk ($306.55)
Seat 6: FlyinHawaiin ($398.90)
Seat 7: chislodc ($436.40)
Seat 8: peeeedor ($80)
Seat 9: buddyboy2007 ($154)
DaSwam posts the small blind of $2
bansung588 posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaSwam [Ad Kc]
zeynex calls $4
LawmakerDonk folds
FlyinHawaiin folds
chislodc folds
peeeedor folds
buddyboy2007 folds
DaSwam raises to $18
bansung588 folds
zeynex has 15 seconds left to act
zeynex raises to $140.80, and is all in
PawanPatel sits down
DaSwam calls $122.80
zeynex shows [Js Qd]
DaSwam shows [Ad Kc]
*** FLOP *** [2c Th 5s]
*** TURN *** [2c Th 5s] [9c]
PawanPatel adds $350
*** RIVER *** [2c Th 5s 9c] [8c]
zeynex shows a straight, Queen high
DaSwam shows Ace King high
zeynex wins the pot ($282.60) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $285.60 | Rake $3
Board: [2c Th 5s 9c 8c]
Seat 2: DaSwam (small blind) showed [Ad Kc] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 3: bansung588 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: zeynex showed [Js Qd] and won ($282.60) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 5: LawmakerDonk didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: FlyinHawaiin didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: chislodc didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: peeeedor didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: buddyboy2007 (button) didn't bet (folded)
 
192R9
      ID: 21721142
      Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 04:46 		Just be glad people like him still play poker, and choose to play at your tables. :)
 
193swami
      ID: 466151915
      Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 15:18 		Agreed. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find him since.
 
194R9
      ID: 21721142
      Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 17:14 		Gotta wait for Fri/Sat when people get their paychecks. ;)
 
195swami
      ID: 466151915
      Tue, Sep 04, 2007, 13:58 		Finally some justice. My first big tourney score!!

This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Full Tilt Poker Tournament #25880863 Daily Double - B NL Hold'em
Buy-In: $10.00 + $2.00
1290 players
Total Prize Pool: $12900.00
Start Date: September 3 9:02 PM ET

Dear DaSwam,

You finished the tournament in 1st place.
There has been $2451.00 added to your account.

You have earned leaderboard points for this tournament.
To view your current leaderboard points use the link in the Cashier window.

Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.
 
196ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Sep 04, 2007, 14:28 		Nice win...congrats...
 
197ChicagoTRS
      ID: 344311322
      Sat, Sep 08, 2007, 12:13 		Had myself a decent tournament place last night. Long heads up battle and I had the guy on the ropes a half dozen times but he got cards when he needed them.


Full Tilt Poker Tournament #26178732 $15,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) NL Hold'em
Buy-In: $10.00 + $1.00
459 players
Total Prize Pool: $15000.00
Start Date: September 7 22:31 PM ET
You finished the tournament in 2nd place.
There has been $2325.00 added to your account.

You have earned leaderboard points for this tournament.
To view your current leaderboard points use the link in the Cashier window.

Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.
 
198tommyd
      ID: 326243012
      Sun, Sep 09, 2007, 13:42 		How many buy-ins did you make TRS.
 
199Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Sep 09, 2007, 14:06 		Nice playing, swami and TRS.

BTW - Pro Jean-Robert Bellande is part of Survivor: China. Should be fascinating to see how he does.
 
200ChicagoTRS
      ID: 344311322
      Sun, Sep 09, 2007, 21:30 		I probably had ~7 buy-ins. Just the way I play small buy-in rebuy tournaments...I am seeing ~75% of the flops and I am pushing on any draw and do not mind losing a few just to get some chips on the table. Right before the end of the rebuy I hit a few big hands and I had ~18K in chips and was 2nd at my table...probably top 50 in tourney. But the main thing it did is I had 0 respect at my table and got paid off with some big hands by marginal type hands later. Had the chip lead at the final table for a majority of the time.
 
201wolfer
      ID: 247581719
      Mon, Sep 10, 2007, 22:36 		At least it's a start:

PokerStars Tournament #60512080, No Limit Hold'em
Freeroll
2143 players
$5000.00 added to the prize pool by PokerStars.com
Total Prize Pool: $5000.00
Tournament started - 2007/09/10 - 21:20:00 (ET)

Dear wolfer001,

You finished the tournament in 190th place.
A $5.50 award has been credited to your Real Money account.


Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.

 
202 Erick Griffin
      ID: 331011135
      Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 06:11 		9rjkybs7h52ihp7o
 
203fugazi
      ID: 46750221
      Sun, Nov 30, 2008, 21:41 		Anyone else watch the 60 Minutes segment on online poker tonight? Just google it. Part of it involved a PokerStars employee playing an account and ripping people off of $20 million (if I remember right). There should be plenty of news articles about it by now.
 
204beastiemiked
      ID: 5310301021
      Mon, Dec 01, 2008, 04:14 		Part of it involved a PokerStars employee playing an account and ripping people off of $20 million (if I remember right).

Ugh, no. There were multiple parties "involved" in the cheating. Russ Hamilton and a few unnamed people. Cheating happened at Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker.

I roomed with the Australian guy they interviewed. He works for Stars security team now.

 
205Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 19:38 		I watched the piece and thought it was well done even though I was quite familiar with the case from this thread. I think they could have made a stronger case in favor of legalization. Once Congress legalizes on-line gambling, all the shady Indian Rez and Caribbean Island operators vanish because smart people would only play at US licensed and regulated casino sites.

60 Minutes also could have pointed out the hypocrisy of the Federal government criminalizing an activity that millions of people enjoy watching on television. Hell, I'm a civil libertarian who believes in decriminalizing drugs, but even I know that people aren't going to gather around the television to watch some sort of methamphetamine tournament. The criminalization of on-line poker is asinine!
 
206ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Wed, Dec 03, 2008, 15:53 		Watched it last night...can find it on the CBS web site.

They did not do the hatchet job against online poker that I expected...was relatively fair even though they did not really go into legalization or making online poker legitimate. You would think online poker/gambling would be a great vehicle for additional tax revenue...it is really great for the government since it is electronic and every penny won/lost can be tracked.

Waiting waiting waiting for the day the government gets on board and allows everyone to play...maybe the games would get good again. Online has been really tough lately IMO. I am not losing money but not winning much either...most of my profit seems to be from rake...which does not make a great hourly rate.
 
207R
      ID: 20537222
      Tue, Dec 09, 2008, 02:02 		Been lurking around here and would love some help with these questions...

Been playing on Full Tilt for a while and put together a decent bankroll. Looking to take a check withdrawal, but a little worried. Okay, make that very paranoid...

What do the checks look like? Ive heard poker sites do their cashiering through a 3rd party and the poker site names are not on the check. Is this true?

Do i need to worry about the bank declining the check if they realize its gambling related? And if so, do they file a report with some authority?

Do any of you pay taxes on online poker winnings? Is it traceable by the IRS? Do poker sites even submit paperwork to government agencies?

Appreciate any feedback, just really worried here.

R
 
208ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Dec 09, 2008, 11:37 		Answers to your questions...

Checks...look like checks...absolutely no reference to gambling or the poker site. Typically they are issued from Bank of America or some other bank. You should have absolutely no problem cashing. I would suggest staying under $5,000 for each cashout.

Taxes...you should pay taxes on your winnings...but the poker sites do not report anything to the government. The poker site does not have your social security number so nothing is reported to the government. Kind of on your honor whether you report the income or not...the only way you would likely get caught is if you are audited. If your return is pretty standard (W2, regular deductions, etc...), your chances of getting audited are very slim (like 1 in a few thousand). If you have your own business or an otherwise non-standard return you will need to reevaluate your risk of facing an audit. The IRS simply does not have the manpower to audit many standard returns. Typical audits these days are just because the IRS found an error or has a question...they rarely audit standard returns.

If you do pay taxes on your wins...you need to do some research. You need detailed records of all of your play. Typically: date, amount of time played, games played, amount won/lost. You need this info for each session. Then you must report all your winning sessions as income and all of your losses as gambling losses. You CANNOT just report how much you cashed out. You also need to research your state and if they allow gambling deductions for losses.
 
209R
      ID: 351122214
      Wed, Dec 10, 2008, 17:07 		ChicagoTRS-

Appreciate your feedback.
 
210ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 09:30 		Anyone still playing?

Online has been tough lately...at least for me...can't get any traction...basically just maintaining my bankroll at this point...no profit.

B&M is good when I get a chance to play...have played around a dozen times in the last year and have won 11 of 12 visits.
 
211Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 11:56 		I'm still playing. January was my first month where I made more than I did at my office job. I've been playing on Stars and Full Tilt.

I try to change up what I'm playing to keep things interesting. I've been playing PLO8 MTTs, cash games from 50NL to 200NL, SNGs up to the $36 level and been playing a little of the 45 man turbos on stars. With Rakeback and Bonuses there's still money to be made online. Hopefully the new adminstration can get the UIGEA repealed.
 
212R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 13:34 		Yeah, I've been 24 tabling on Stars since the Fall, making FPP's hand over fist in their VPP program. I only win at about 2 BB/100 at FR 100NL and 200NL, but going for Supernova Elite is worth over 100,000$ a year just from bonuses, so there is still lots of money to be made. :)
 
213wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 13:37 		I have been avoiding online for a while- I took a few bad bad beats and havent played since.
 
214wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 13:46 		I just got home from Vegas on monday- won a couple nice pots- Paid for my whole trip- went to the UFC fight-Stayed at Bellagio 4 nights- lots of buffets- and malibu and pineapples :) and still came home up 1100 dollars.


About the 12th hand at Venetian 500 max table I get pocket Jacks- Preflop to 35 4 callers and a raise to 70. My initial thought is that I could be in trouble, but i make the call to see what happens- its only 35 more dollars into about a 300 dollar pot. 2 more callers.

FLOP jack of hearts 7 of Spades 2 Clubs- Fireworks go off in my heads. I check guy after me goes to 100 other 2 call- I raise all in for about 330 more- now there is over 600 in the pot 1 initial bettor folds- other 2 call- 1 for alittle less.

We all flopped sets and nothing hit- I took down about 1700 dollars on that pot- Then I got alittle more aggressive and ended up, up 2200 for the day.

i didnt really do a whole lot after that a few ups and a few downs, but that night made the whole trip.
 
215Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 13:47 		R9, that's pretty badass. Did you get over 80,000 VPPs in January?
 
216Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 14:13 		Nice hand wiggs. What a dream flop for that hand. Rainbow....no overcards. No reasonable draw of any kind. Congrats!
 
217Donkey Hunter
      Leader
      ID: 916288962
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 15:24 		Nice hand wiggs. What a dream flop for that hand. Rainbow....no overcards. No reasonable draw of any kind. Congrats!

And most importantly, he still managed to get paid off.
 
218weykool
      ID: 2842717
      Wed, Feb 04, 2009, 18:38 		Wiggs nice had.

I was involved in one of those hands once.
When the flop came 7-A-5 I was the unlucky holder of pocket 7's.

I had another hand where I had the pocket aces and the other player had pocket 9's.
We both hit our sets.
4th street was another 9 giving me aces full.
I couldnt get my money in fast enough when I was raised all in.
I hit the case ace on the river.
 
219beastiemiked
      ID: 40155223
      Thu, Feb 05, 2009, 12:09 		There's still a ton of money to be made online. Anyone that plays a lot should definitely get Holdem Manager. It's 100x better than the original pokertracker and apparently better than pokertracker's new software, PT3.
 
220Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Thu, Feb 05, 2009, 15:26 		Decided to go home 'sick' from work today to play in the FTOPS PLO8 event. After the first break I'm above average in chips and it's amazing how bad the play is. So far it's played like a regular $5 or $10 tournament.

I'm just hoping to get a t-shirt for knocking out a pro. So far no pros at my table. The $61,000 first place prize would be nice too.
 
221R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 04:44 		Rendle, made a little under 70k VPP. So I'm a bit behind pace, but nothing I can't catch up on later.

To be honest the games were really tight during the 7am - 7pm stretch, and apparently January has been like that the last two years, so its not the worst month to fall behind on. Its one hell of a grind though...
How'd you finish in your tourney?

bmd, agreed, HEM is great. I still use PT3 as I bought it months ago and tweaked it a ton. I actually think PT3 can do more, but you really have to get in there and learn about custom queries, stats and reports, and to anyone new to trackers I'd just get HEM. It does 99% of what every player should need, with about 99% less hassle than PT3.
 
222Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Feb 06, 2009, 12:37 		Meh, finished 400/1400, 200 out of the money. I had an average stack and got it in with 2 pair + the nut flush draw vs some droolers, weak low draw + gutshot. Of course the gutshot hit and I was done. I had one KO, didn't get to play with any red pros, but was at Kevin Saul's table who had a custom avatar. I actually shoulda KO'd him but my freeroll couldn't hit and we split.

Good luck with the chase for SNE. It's amazing you can make that much in just rakeback. Doesn't it equal 65%?
 
223JCS
      All-Star
      ID: 020102934
      Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 05:31 		I'm also still playing. Actually I used to play TSN Hoops, discovered poker via you guys' posts, rfs, beastiemiked, ChicagoTRS, on this forum about 2.5 years ago, being curious to see why rfs had kinda given up on TSN Hoops since he was quite good at it. Deposited a few bucks online. Long story short, I'm now playing 2/4 and 3/6 mainly on Everest, some on Party too. I'll probably try my 2nd shot at 5/10 next month, already have 100 buyins online for that limit. If I ever win the WSOP main event I'll make sure to give rotoguru a shoutout in my post-win interviews ;-)
 
224ChicagoTRS
      Leader
      ID: 566152116
      Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 09:54 		Poker is definitely an outlet for a lot of good fantasy sports players...requires a lot of the same skills and if you find you are good at it can be a bit more lucrative.
 
225rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:22 		RE: #223.

I found online poker changed and I either didn't adapt or the games got tougher. I play regularly in Vegas and at AZ casinos and make a nice profit in "live" poker.

As far as fantasy sports, there's a relationship. but I got bored and prefer to follow "real" teams. Plus, my job involved too much time away from teh PC at r near freeze time. :0

 
226R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 01:19 		Rendle #222, rakeback % will flucuate based on play style (LAG vs. TAG vs. NIT-TAG) and even the level that you play at (its possible to get over 100% rakeback at 1/2 limit as a SNE) but 65% is a reasonable ballpark guess for .50/1 NL and 1/2 NL.

Anyone playing regularly enough to reach 600k VPP (about 1.5ish million hands at .50/1 NL) is missing out on alot of rakeback by playing at FTP. Stars really doesn't reward the occasional player very well though, and FTP's flat 27% makes far more sense for those types of players.
 
227Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 13:39 		Interesting stuff R9, keep us updated on your progress.

When Full Tilt offered me rakeback last April I only played there until December when Stars offered a reload bonus I threw some money on there to play more PLO8 MTTs. My winrate has been much higher on Stars and with another reload bonus I've played 80% of my poker on there.

Stars new SCOOP tournament series looks insane. Last night I played in one of their ANTE UP tournaments where the blinds stay at 5/5 the whole tourney but the antes start at level one and increase every 10 minutes. I ended up finishing 4/350 in a NLO8 tourney but it was just bizarre becauase no one knew what they were doing.
 
228barilko6
      ID: 331161121
      Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 13:48 		How would you all rate the poker sites?

I play on Full Tilt and PokerStars, and would say I enjoy PokerStars much more.

Thoughts?
 
229Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 14:34 		For Tournaments:
Stars has bigger fields, more SNG tournaments
Tilt has better payout structures, usually around 10%

SNGS: Stars has more running, better rake structure

Cash Game: Stars has a better filter, both now have auto top off which is clutch

Rakeback and Bonuses: Tilt has flat 27%, Ironman bonues are lame but are something
Stars has the VIP program which doesn't come close to 27% unless you are a Supernova and hit like 600k vpps, they've had 2 reload bonuses in the last 2 months

I like both although I'm running horribly on Tilt now so most of my play is going to Stars even with the lower rakeback.
 
230barilko6
      ID: 331161121
      Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 14:39 		The thing I don't like about PokerStars, is even if a player mucks his hand at the end, you can still check the previous hand to see what they had.

I do like the filters on Stars...and the choice of different tourneys.
 
231Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 14:50 		On Tilt you can also check the hand history to see what the other players have.

One thing that pisses me off about Stars is in cash games they don't flip over the cards if 2 players are all in before the river.
 
232R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 02:10 		Actually Rendle, I'm pretty sure just getting to 200k VPP's makes Stars VIP program better than 27% rakeback. Not by much, but I think 200k to 300k level equals ~ 32% rb.

Its harder to reach 200k than you'd think though.
 
233R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 02:29 		Chart for rakeback at each VIP level

This chart was created by pokerstars and placed on 2+2 with their consent. The general consensus is that the numbers are higher than what we really get. They are inflated by as much as 10% at some levels, as the calculations PStars uses is sometimes outdated.

For example, at 9-max 100NL, I've received on average 3.2 VPP per hand. At peak times that can reach 4 VPP per hand, and as low as 2.4 VPP per hand during odd hours. It seems like PStars took the highest potential earning rate, rather then an average of all earning rates, for each level.

That said, the chart shows you that by Supernova you should be fairly close to FTP's 27% (which itself is inflated a bit) and by 200k Supernova you will be ahead of FTP.

The Silverstar, Goldstar and Platinum levels all seem very inflated, but PStars will be reducing the amount needed to reach those levels starting in March (Silverstar goes from 1,500 needed to 1,200, Goldstar is 4,000 -> 3,000 and Platinum is 10,000 -> 7,500) so those %'s will be closer to the grid once that happens.
 
234R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 03:53 		All that said, Pokerstars is the only site that really lets you earn a ridiculous rakeback if you put in a very high volume, so if you plan on playing a ton it makes no sense to play anywhere else. (Unless you are crazy like that Belok guy and play 40 tables at once - 24 on stars and 14 on Tilt.)

If you only play occasionally (12 hours or less each week) you will make more rakeback with Tilt. However, depending on your volume the difference might be as little as 50$ a month, so other factors might play a bigger role in choosing your site. Rendle's breakdown for Tournies and SNG's is accurate, and the cash games at anything lower then 2/4 NL are pretty juicy at either site if you are aggressive enough.

A weakness of Stars is that the 'rakeback' is paid in FPP's, and you then cash them in for bonuses, but you must clear those bonuses first by playing. (The 250,000 fpp bonus for 4,000$ requires you to earn another 28,000 before it clears.) Not an issue for me really because my bonuses clear fast because I play a ton, but FTP just deposits your rakeback weekly or monthly.

Getting fpp's instead of straight rakeback might seem beneficial because of Stars' large fpp store, but most of the items are hideously overpriced, especially the electronics. You are far better off to take the money and go to BestBuy and just buy what you want.
 
235Rendle
      ID: 528422314
      Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 09:45 		R9, I don't know how you can play 24 tables at once. I can play 12 at a time for SNGs/hold em tournies and up to 8 for cash games. I play extremely laggy so I guess that's one thing. What kind of stats do you have 24 tabling?
 
236R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 14:17 		Its definitely tough to play laggy on 24 tables. I run around 15/13/4, but use notes and my HUD for most reads. Table selecting is also key; avoid having tough regs on your left.
 
237DWetzel at library
      ID: 372401311
      Fri, Mar 13, 2009, 13:56 		So I'm finally getting back into the poker thing, both online and live.

Online report: after cashing some out a couple years ago and busting off most of the rest, I had about $7 and 1700 FPP in my account. Came back, promptly managed to bust down to 0.85 or so. Used some of the FPP to enter some of the Sunday Hundred Grand satellites, got about $30 in T$, played some sit and gos, managed to get about $30, bust that down to 81 cents. (Playing above BR and running like absolute ass is a bad combination.)

Then I remembered how god-awful people are at stud8 (not that I'm God by any means, but I can crush low limit stud8). Took the rest of the FPP, cashed in a couple satellites, and after a good few days (and playing in some $1 stud8 and HORSE tournies) I've got it up to about $70. Now that I remember where my bread and butter is and how variance works I should be okay and not go busto. (Famous last words.)

Live report: Last weekend I played my first casino live NL (1-2, of course) at the Par-A-Dice boat in Peoria. They added four poker tables to the boat in February. I got there about 11:00 AM (good thing!) as they were about to start a 1-2 NL game on the last table available. Perfect. They ran two 1-2 tables and two 3-6 limit tables.

I bought in for $200 (table max). Won a modest pot of about $70 early on which took some of the jitters away. Meanwhile, an old farmer type was running over the table with the raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn, bet river line (rest of the table was playing pretty passively). Raked in four pots in a row without showing his cards and had about $450 in his stack.

A bit later I pick up AcKc in early position and raise to $12. Farmer calls from the BB. Flop Q65 rainbow. Check-C-bet $15, call. Turn J, check-check. River 6, he bets $15 and I call. He shows 42o. Thanks.

I picked up garbage for the next couple of orbits as the farmer continued to build up his stack. Rivered a flush one hand, hit a double-gutter on a paired board to rack in another nice pot. I think he had about $650 in front of him when (cue triumphant music) I pick up AA in late position. EP raises to $12, farmer calls $12, I decide that one of them has something and make it $50. Farmer calls.

Flop A74 rainbow. That's nice to see. As I contemplate how I'm going to get all the money, he bets out $50. Oh, okay, that simplifies things. I throw out a tester-looking scared raise to $110. He raises $100 on top. I push for my last $80 or so over the top of that, and he calls. I never did see what he had; after the K turn and 9 river, I had the nuts and a roughly $700 pot. So that was nice.

Played about another hour (about 3.5 hours total) donking around a bit trying to get the rest of the farmer's stack, then cashed out for $636. A nice first trip. The wife'll let me go back now. ;)

Very friendly bunch, dealers seemed decent. (What do I know, but I've heard horror stories. The worst I saw was a dealer trying to give someone a "missed blind" marker when they got up while on the button.) Floor staff was nice. They need more tables; by the time I left there were at LEAST a dozen names on the waiting lists, and I don't think many seats were opening up very quickly.
 
238ChicagoTRS
      ID: 591302518
      Sun, May 03, 2009, 23:02 		bmd...congrats on winning a seat in that tourney today...was railing a friend who ended up coming in 34th...
 
239rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Mon, May 04, 2009, 21:23 		PokerStars is requiring an update tonight. It's been downloading for over 30 minutes. Anyone else having a problem getting on PS?
 
240rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 21:41 		record roll

While, not as impressive as this record breaking roll, I had been vaguely aware that I hadn't flopped a set in a "long time" so i went back and reviewed.... I was dealt 120 pairs and saw the flop 101 times and didn't flop a single set. Today I get dealt 3 pairs inside of 5 minutes and flop set, set set.
Poker is odd.
 
241R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, May 27, 2009, 10:45 		Be careful what you wish for; yesterday in my first hour I had 6 sets, 5 of which were undersets! :p
 
242Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, May 27, 2009, 17:05 		.....but that was on 12 tables at a time. Big whoop! ;)
 
243R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, May 29, 2009, 14:03 		24 actually. ;) The 6 sets was standard for an hour. The 5 undersets not so much! ;)

rfs, you at pokerstars these days? What limit? I remember you used to play 100NL.
 
244Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 13:03 		R9, have you deposted any checks lately?

I deposited 2 Monday and 1 today and just there's been some problems with the processers who handle poker checks. Many people on 2+2 have reported their checks have bounced.

Hopefully some good news will come out soon.
 
245R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 13:06 		Yah, I've been following it with some interest, as poker players not getting their monies is not cool. I use direct bank transfers though, usually takes 2 days tops and saves the hassle of cashing cheques. I don't think thats an option for you US doods though, is it?
 
246Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 13:12 		Oops, forgot you were Canadian. You probably have alot less to worry about. As far as cashouts all I have is checks and Echecks for Stars and Full Tilt.

It sounds like one of the processors for Stars is fine so hopefully the deposits go through.
 
247R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 13:59 		Definitely not a worry for players, Stars will right things. Just might take a little while. One poster on 2+2 said Stars support sent him an email saying they'd cover any bank fees as a result of the bounced check (he needs to send in a photocopy of his bank statement as proof), and that their other processor would send a new check.

From reading a couple threads, it seems like one of the big check processors might have gone belly up. An article on them from May 26th said they owned Stars and FT over 30 million, and now this... doesn't look good for them. Stars has other processors though, so some checks are going through. You might get lucky and have no problems...
 
248Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Mon, Jun 08, 2009, 09:53 		It took 12 hours to get a response from Stars which is 11 1/2 hours longer than usual but they said there shouldn't be any problems with the checks I deposited so I lucked out there.

R9, what do you think about Harrah's starting an online gaming division? The prospect of the UIGEA getting repealed and Harrahs, MGM, Bellagio starting their own sites is very exciting. Whenever someone talks about how soft the games used to be I get frustrated that I started playing poker so late.
 
249R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 06:19 		Well, alot of players think the UIGEA has made the games really bad but in truth, the real reason the games have gotten worse is the average player is getting alot better. Cardrunners, Stoxpoker, Deucescracked, etc. are all available to make players better, and just simple experience makes even bad players slightly less bad.

If/when the UIGEA gets repealed, it will probably have a decent effect on making the games better, at least for a bit. But the games will never go back to being as 'good' as they were in the aftermath of Moneymaker. There will never be that many completely clueless fish about, just because the game is not nearly as new, and not nearly as difficult to learn as it was in 2003+.



As far as big name brick-and-mortar companies getting into the online world, I think its great. More companies competing for the same player base means more competition for our rake. That means better rakeback, support, player programs, etc. The VPP system I love so much at Stars came about from serious rakeback competition from other sites (Tilt mostly).

I'm also not worried about them wiping Stars and Tilt out with big-business tactics. Online poker is a very overhead-free business, so companies like Stars and Tilt will always be able to compete with big-name corporations. Injecting massive amounts of capital can only do so much for an industry like this.
 
250R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 06:27 		Also, on the checks deal, its really worrying how some lawyer guy in NY can just ask a bank to freeze an account, with no judge order or anything. 30 million frozen, based on his word that the money frozen somehow violated the Wire Act. (Not even the UIGEA...)

The US is a great country, you guys just seem to have a hard time figuring out what to do about vices. Prohibition doesn't work too well, yet you try it on everything. :p
I'm sure someone will eventually figure out that its better to regulate and tax it, I just hope it happens soon!
 
251Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 12:36 		Solid posts, R9.

The training site thing is funny how much they're growing. I joined deucescracked for 6 months for $150 when I first hit a wall. Now I get Stox and Cardrunners free every month for getting so many points at Full Tilt.

What's your VPP count at currently?
 
252ChicagoTRS
      ID: 1550160
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 01:50 		I agree the average online player is getting tougher and tougher. Education, experience has a lot to do with it. But I also think the poor economy has had a significant effect. Losing players can't afford to continue to donate. The bar is continually moving up as the worst players fall out of the game.
 
253R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 06:26 		Sitting around 280,000 VPP's right now. Not anywhere near pace, but school really put a dent into that. Just had my last exams on Friday and I'm done for the year. No fall classes for me. :) I'm also going to be spending the next two weeks trying to qualify for the WSOP ME, as Stars is offering 100k VPP's to anyone who wins a seat and actually goes. Barring winning a seat, I'll probably buy my way in, as that counts too.

I might still scale back making a SNE run though. After almost 900,000 hands, some clear trends are emerging. My winrate on days where I don't play more than 3 hours is significantly larger than days where I grind like a madman. Its also much more relaxing. So I'll sit down with Excel on Monday and calculate which earns me more $; going to 600k while playing 3 hours a day, going to 800k or making a 1M SNE run.

And ya TRS, I would love to see the UIGEA repealed before the recession ends. Those two things hand-in-hand might make for a nice short-term boost. You still playing PLO? I know the VPP rates there are sick... ;)
 
254Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 19:56 		R9: I would highly suggestion going for the 1M run and ignoring your G20 baseball team ;)
 
255R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 23:26 		lol! Actually, I negotiated those two deals while I was 24-tabling.

Insert 'that explains how you got taken twice' joke here.
 
256Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 01:35 		Insert 'that explains how you got taken twice' joke here.

Deliverance and Pulp Fiction come to mind, for sure! What's French for "f**k me up the ass"?? ;)
 
257R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 10:45 		Maudite tabernac caulis, ca fait aucune espèce d'allure!

:p
 
258ChicagoTRS
      ID: 3218189
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 14:33 		I have pretty much quit playing...did not cash for about 6 months...and my bankroll went down accordingly. I had been playing pretty much nightly for over 5 years straight and honestly right now I do not miss it. I do not have the drive to play unless I am cashing checks. It seems like no one is cashing checks right now with the government meddling again.

Just not going to put any of my own money back online...I started with $50 out of my pocket and never deposited after that...

I still am playing live once a month or so as I am winning there.

Mostly just bored with the game and the last year or so has been a grind...have not enjoyed playing and I think it made my play suffer. I have enough left in my account to mix it up a little...playing one or two nights a month...if I work my bankroll up I am sure I will play more.
 
259beastiemiked
      ID: 34556262
      Fri, Jun 26, 2009, 03:56 		R9, if you win your seat hit me up in Vegas. I'm flying back out there on the 3rd and playing 1d on the 6th.
 
260beastiemiked
      ID: 29640423
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 00:48 		Switched to day 1c. I think we are only playing 4 levels so there's a good chance that I will make a day 2 in a 10k event(currently 0-4).
 
261R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 02:40 		Ended up not buying in, after I had a hard time cashing out to my USD bank account. In the end they said I couldn't cash out in USD to a Canadian bank, even if the Canadian bank account is in USD. My $ was held in limbo between Stars and the bank for over a week, so I just said screw it. Now I have to figure out what to do with my 9,500$ in W$.

Between that and Stars trying to change the VPP formula on us to save $ (would've been a 25% cut for me) it hasn't been a great week.

GL bmd! Alot of the 2+2 guys are already out. I think its a good thing to bust early. ;) Gotta play it to win.
 
262beastiemiked
      ID: 29640423
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 16:25 		Made day 2 with 15.4k. Had a really shitty table draw and lost 30k pot with AKs vs JJ aipf in the last level.

Made a pretty ridiculous laydown. Something I'd never do online but it felt right at the time.

150/300 a25. Effective stacks 30k. Non spewy 3/6 cash game player limps utg, HJ limps, I see 77 in CO, think about raising but have raised limpers twice already and got butt raped on flops so I decide to limp, sb and bb limp and check option. Flop 973 2 diamonds. Bingo. BB leads for 1k, sb doesn't take much time to rejack to 2.7k. HJ folds. I haven't really been out of the line and BB has only 11k total so there's a chance he reships so I just flat with middle set. He calls the 1.7k raise.

Turn is 6d, completing flush draws and T8. **** card. Check, check. I check behind since no worse hand calls besides maybe 33.

River 3s. So final board is 97363 3 diamonds. BB leads for 5k of his 11k stack, utg thinks for a bit before putting in a big pile of chips that have me covered. I hollywood a bit but really can't put him on anything other than 99 or 33. End up folding, BB folds as well claiming he had the flush. UTG doesn't show but tells me had 99 which I'm 99.9% sure he wasn't lying since I talked with him on a few breaks and after the day was over.

A lot of people gave me shit for laying it down The kid that said he had 99 was really nice and he'd have to be a pretty big jackass and a great actor to lie to my face multiple times if he didn't have 99.

My day 2 table doesn't look much better. Have Devilfish on my direct left and at least 5 other "pros" at my table. Still confident that I'm better than these guys. With 30 bbs, I'm still in decent shape and don't necessarily need to force anything too quickly.

 
263Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 17:58 		Nice recap bmd. Wow that's a tough laydown.....but as you said this is LIVE, and when you are actually touching felt sometimes you just have to go with your gut.

I have to imagine guys like Devilfish and other pros really try to run you over. Actually having a guy like that to your left could be advantageous. Good luck. When is day 2 for you? Kick some ass!
 
264Seattle Zen
      ID: 14637710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 18:41 		Great story, BMD. I'm pulling for you.
 
265beastiemiked
      ID: 29640423
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 20:17 		I play tomorrow at noon.
 
266Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 20:27 		good luck BMD
 
267GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 23:52 		Good Luck BMD
 
268wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 00:50 		congrats man- GL
 
269Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 10:44 		good luck bmd, very sick laydown
 
270JeffG
      Leader
      ID: 01584348
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 11:23 		We're rooting for you bmd! Keep the updates coming.
 
271Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 18:58 		Grrrrrrrrr.....would try to get some live updates on bmd's chipstack but my work has anything with poker in it blocked!
 
272beastiemiked
      ID: 29640423
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 19:02 		No need. I busted with AA << QQ all in preflop. Always next year.
 
273wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 22:56 		good run bro
 
274Rendle
      Donor
      ID: 014815714
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 10:10 		Live poker is rigged. Good game.
 
275Rendle
      ID: 563401521
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 00:03 		100 left in the main event and alot of huge names left over. Ivey, Eastgate, or Phillips would all make great stories if they made the November 9. Esfandiari, Tom Schneider, Joe Sebok, Prahlad Friedman, Kenny Tran, and a bunch of 2+2ers are also still in.
 
277beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 00:32 		Sorry guys. Posted a very small spoiler of the ME. Since been deleted.
 
278Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 21:19 		Just a quick blurb about the ME. Don't click if you don't want to know about players who are left.

I am stoked to see Ivy in the November 9. Easily my favorite player. I hope after years of amateurs winning that the pros will finally grab the bracelet behind one of the games absolute elite.
 
279Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 21:20 		and yeah, I spelled his name wrong.
 
280Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 12:49 		Anybody watch "The Amazing Race"?? Tiffany Michelle and Maria (don't know her last name) are on it. After Tiffany getting outed on the ESPN broadcasts in 2008 for being mouthy and full of herself, one would think she would have learned her lesson. I for one am not surprised that on the show she is already talking about using her charms to flirt with the guys (of course, they didn't realize at the time she made that comment that they were gay) and using her looks to get ahead in the game.

Beyotch.......you aren't that hot. Not even close.

PS - Tiffany and Maria decided to lie to the other contestants, saying that they work for a non-profit in LA helping homeless kids. They figured that the other teams would want to help them more if they did that instead of being successful poker professionals.

Oooooops. They have already been recognized in an airport and one of the teams overheard a "fan" talking about seeing them on TV or whatever.
 
281wiggs
      Leader
      ID: 04991311
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 13:06 		Its Maria Ho- I would guess not many people that are not big poker fans would recognize either of them. Maybe Michelle just because she was so rude last year.
 
282 rerlu898
      ID: 71115186
      Fri, Dec 18, 2009, 07:15 		It Cool.,
 
283 enjj675
      ID: 01171810
      Fri, Dec 18, 2009, 11:07 		Very Super.,
 
284weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 14:34 		Has anyone tried the new "Rush Poker" on FTP?
For those who have not played: when you fold your hand you are immediately sent to a new table and dealt another hand.
I cant keep track of multi tables and playing one table can get very boring when you are not getting any cards.
 
285ChicagoTRS
      ID: 550421116
      Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 16:15 		Rush poker...yeah love it...very addicting...no wasted time. I can't even play regular tables any more.
 
286 Mukakugi
      ID: 31736922
      Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 23:36 		phone spy telephone recording system,