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Subject: Lost ---Season 4

Posted by: angryChair - [100501014] Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 14:56

When is the premeire?

Any idea how they will do the episodes this year? Similar to last
year?

Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 15:07

There won't be any new episodes until February 2008, I think.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 4110481415
Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 15:26

Heard today because of the writers strike that next season could be delayed until 2009...depends how long the strike lasts and it looks like Lost will definitely be delayed from Feb...

Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 15:30

ooof. that really, really, sucks.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 15:32

Of course there is this ...

ABC to Air Partial Season of Lost

ABC said that as of now, it is sticking with its plan to air the eight episodes it has of Lost -- this coming on the day that Fox announced that it will bench its own serialized midseason thriller, 24.

Lost executive producer Damon Lindelof said Wednesday that the final episode that has been written ends in a cliffhanger that will not be resolved for viewers until after the strike.

Rendle
ID: 449391213
Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 15:32

They have 8 of the 16 episodes written and the producers have said they're not airing a mini run like the one in the fall of '06. They'll have to come to a resolution soon(which isn't likely) or they'll be no more Lost until 2009 at the earliest.

Rendle
ID: 449391213
Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 15:38

Maybe what I read was wrong. Either way this is pretty disappointing. Every show is gonna be messed up except for Jericho.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, Nov 14, 2007, 15:56

Lost: Missing Pieces

Hadn't seen this. Looks like they are going to have 13 of these.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 18:13

The next one came out "Hurley and Frogurt"...man, Frogurt is a crappy actor.

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 20:09

Who is Frogurt? I do not remember him?

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 20:20

Because you've never seen him until now. He has only been mentioned briefly, seemingly mostly in jest.

Tree
ID: 5811311819
Tue, Dec 18, 2007, 20:33

now THIS is how a preview oughta be done...

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Tue, Dec 18, 2007, 20:43

Holy sh!t, got chills towards the end.

bobo
ID: 13944256
Wed, Dec 19, 2007, 10:46

yeah...that was just an excellent preview and it's got me excited for this next season to get into full swing!

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Wed, Dec 19, 2007, 12:19

thanks for trailer

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 21:42

I look FWD to the the LOST chatter tomorrow. I live on the West coast---I am waiting impatiently!

Welcome back LOST!!!

Bobo
ID: 3002340
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 22:18

w/o any spoilers...an incredible opening episode!

I too look forward to discussion once most have watched it tomorrow.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 22:34

Ha! I couldn't resist looking in here...thank you for not spoiling my addiction. :)

Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 23:07

I'm gonna be honest.... I said it for an hour straight.... I hate this show. I watch it every stinkin weak for 3+ years and each week I say "none of this makes any sense. And it will continue to make no sense for 38 more episodes until the series finale in 2010."

That is just beyond frustrating. Yeah, I sorta mildly get some of it. But do I? Or is everything I'm seeing a dream? Or something that isn't real.

Its just absurd and to wait 39 more episodes to know what happened is going to tick me off. I almost want to say heck with it, watch the series finale in 2 years, and then go back and watch all 6 seasons so it makes sense.

Tree
ID: 520153120
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 23:17

Farn - when you're reading a good book, do you skip ahead to the end and read the finish?

Lost is something with a definite end. it takes time to get there.

a LOT of things happened tonight. for example, we learned how many people got off the island. we know the names of half of them.

and that's just for starters.

Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 23:25

Tree, I sort of agree. Although I'm still not convinced those 6 get off the Island. Heck, I'm not sure what I'm convinced of. Every time I think I understand something it turns out its a fake.

Are you really convinced that those 6 get off the Island, and then after leaving their "friends" behind they decide to somehow get back to the island to rescue them? That's just crazy after Jack spent all that time trying to get everyone saved.

Tree
ID: 520153120
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 00:09

i think that the six are Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, and Sun.

i think that Jack is doing fine, but then Hurley dies, and that sends him off the deep end, and we get to what wrapped up season 3...

katietx
ID: 4911141721
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 00:25

I was really glad they did the 1st hour of "catch up" - my fella hadn't watched all the prior episodes so it helped update him.

ps - to Tree - I got a new toy!!!!!! Will try and post some pics soonest.

bobo
ID: 13944256
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 09:51

tree...so are you saying Hurley was in casket at the end of season 3's finale?

I wanna know what the "deep, dark secret" that Jack, Hurley, and likely at least the other 4 of the Oceanic 6 are holding on to...could that be the mystery of the season?

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 11:57

I think its hard to say who the 6 are. Yes, Jack, Kate and Hurley are obvious. I wonder if Michael and Walt ever made it back and are considered 2 more. Sun needs to get off the island to live, but I would think Ben, Locke, jacob, "the island" needs her to be there. And Claire should be off the island. I would hate to have Desmond's vision to be Charlie drowns and then 1 year later claire gets off the island. That's a pretty far fetched vision. I would think it would be right away that Claire gets off the island. We already know that it doesnt matter which side you chose last night as at least 1 of each has left the island.

Upset Naomi's dead.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 11:58

I dont think it can be hurley in the coffin. Not to be mean, but the coffin to me didnt seem big enough.

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 12:45

katie - sounds cool!

bobo - i do think it was hurley in the casket. and i think the secret is that there are plenty more survivors still on the island.

taste - we already know michael comes back this season. in what capacity, we are unsure.

desmond's vision was that claire gets into a helicopter, not that she gets off the island. i think with charlie dead, she is as dead as a doorknob as well. what better way to get heel heat then to kill a mother (and child)?

the coffin didn't seem big enough. but i think if they did that, it would have made it painfully obvious who was in the coffin, and ruined one of the big mysteries...

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 12:58

Very solid season premiere and it's kinda sad that we're only getting 8 episodes. Not a hell of alot happened by they got through most of the fallout from the very involved 'Through the Looking Glass' finale. Things are now set up to get right back into the thick of things.

The Oceanic 6 have already been confirmed online. You can send me an e-mail if you want to know. I love how Lost solved it's biggest mystery that some get off the island while effectively bringing up 100 more questions - Who's in the casket? What is the secret?

I'm also happy about Lance Reddick's addition to the cast. He played a more than solid role on Oz and The Wire. I read some people speculating that he was the smoke monster they way he snuck out on Hurley and the way he talked(kinda sounded like Yemi before Eko was killed).

Farn, it sounds like you're hooked. You can say you dislike but you gotta find out how this thing ends.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:22

tree, actually i didnt know that Michael came back. I dont watch the previews and have not read anything about it as i like to be surprised. I did see Michaels name in the credits but did not know in what capacity he was on the show. Unless this was mentioned on the show could you please refrain from talking in absolutes about things that havent happened yet?

Thanks.

Heres the transcript from the 2nd to last show from last season

CHARLIE: So, you ready to tell me what you saw this morning?

DESMOND: Aye.

CHARLIE: Right. So how's it happen this time?

[Pause]

CHARLIE: Come on, Des. You can tell me. I can take it.

[Pause]

DESMOND: What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off--leaves this Island.

CHARLIE: Are you sure?

DESMOND: Aye.

CHARLIE: A rescue helicopter on this beach?

[Desmond nods]

CHARLIE: This Island--that's what you saw?

[Desmond nods again]

CHARLIE: We're getting bloody rescued! I thought you were gonna tell me I was gonna die again!

DESMOND: You are, Charlie.

CHARLIE: Wait, what?

DESMOND: If you don't, none of it will happen. There won't be any rescue. I'm sorry, brother, but this time--this time you have to die

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:40

tree, actually i didnt know that Michael came back. I dont watch the previews and have not read anything about it as i like to be surprised. I did see Michaels name in the credits but did not know in what capacity he was on the show. Unless this was mentioned on the show could you please refrain from talking in absolutes about things that havent happened yet?

there was no spoiler there on my part. i even said we don't know in what capacity. his name was in the credits for everyone to see.

i'm very careful to not discuss things that haven't happened - but the fact remains he is coming back, because his name was in the credits.

something that is going unmentioned here that is huge is that Jack pulled the trigger on Locke. he was ready to kill him, and if that gun had been loaded, he would have. you can't go back from that. he was set to kill a fellow survivor. that is the point of no return.

What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off--leaves this Island.

right. that says nothing about being rescued.

we know from Desmond that he left the island numerous times on a boat, but somehow kept ending up back there.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:40

my apologies tree,

I reread your post and noticed you didnt say he was or was not one of the oceanic 6. I had originally read it as he was NOT one of the 6 we already know this.

sorry.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 14:00

right. that says nothing about being rescued.

I agree that this does not necessarily mean she gets rescued and only gets on the helicopter. Nodding in agreement to someone saying a rescue helicopter and saying there wont be any rescue unless you die would imply to me that people are being rescued. I would think its pretty irresponsible of Desmond to stress to Charlie you HAVE to die for claire and imply rescue and then have her not be rescued...well ouch is all i can say.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 14:08

I remember you posting something about what jacob looked like but did he not look a lot like Christian this time? I will have to watch again to check but it looked like he was clean shaven and looked like Jacks dad as opposed to scruffy faced last time.

So did Hurley see him? And if so does that mean Hurley has a special connection to the island like Locke or is Jacob just making himself known. are the whispers jacob?

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 14:14

I would think its pretty irresponsible of Desmond to stress to Charlie you HAVE to die for claire and imply rescue and then have her not be rescued...

Desmond might have felt it implied her being rescued. that doesn't mean she was necessarily rescued.

I remember you posting something about what jacob looked like but did he not look a lot like Christian this time?

he looked just like Jack's Dad...

boikin
ID: 59831214
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:19

i am so happy to have this thread back up and running and i think building one what farn said Its just absurd and to wait 39 more episodes to know what happened is going to tick me off. I almost want to say heck with it, watch the series finale in 2 years, and then go back and watch all 6 seasons so it makes sense. it will be great to watch the complet boxset when it comes out, i mean going back through and watching it all over again an knowing what is going to happen and seeing how it all tied in.

Uptown Bombers
Donor
ID: 035616416
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 16:48

I do not believe that Hurley could have been in the coffin. Why would no one have bee there? His character is very likeable, and I can't imagine not one single person besides Jack showing up.

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 16:55

The casket was way too small for Hurley.

Also, Kate might not be part of the 6 since she was a fugitive and when she meant with Jack it was definitely a "secretive" meeting spot.

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:26

Tree==thanks for the photo. I was just about to review that on my DVR. It does look like Jack's dad--but WHY????? Why him?

The scene where Hurley did a cannonball was powerful. You felt his relief--which immediatly ended with him rising from the water to find out Charlie was dead.

That was so much like Lost: the ups and downs come in rapid fire.

Also, I like how Locke is staying strong with his convictions.

Nice to have the show back!!

Anyone see the fake commercials during the new show that followed? Any insight?

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:35

Also, the man who visited Hurley in the Mental Institution was creepy. Was he one of the drug smugglers?

Tree
ID: 2133118
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:45

I do not believe that Hurley could have been in the coffin. Why would no one have bee there? His character is very likeable, and I can't imagine not one single person besides Jack showing up.

we have NO idea what went on on the island after the two groups split into one following Jack, and one following Locke.

we DO know that Hurley regrets making the decision to follow Locke, and i don't think that can be overlooked.

The casket was way too small for Hurley.

i don't find that to be a relevant point. if it was a large casket, it would be too obvious, and thusly, no mystery.

Also, Kate might not be part of the 6 since she was a fugitive and when she meant with Jack it was definitely a "secretive" meeting spot.

so she got back from the island some other way? she's GOT to be one of the 6.

i think it was a secret spot because after everything that happened, Sawyer (who i think she is refering to as "him" basically forbade her from ever seeing Jack)...

Anyone see the fake commercials during the new show that followed? Any insight?

is that the one that drops hints about the website find815.com?

Also, the man who visited Hurley in the Mental Institution was creepy. Was he one of the drug smugglers?

nah, i don't think so. he sounded A LOT like Eko's brother when he first started talking. i think he either works for the company that is landing on the island now, or, i think it's another manifestation of the smoke monster.

angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:47

How about the man who peered thru the whole in the window when Hurley was peeking in the home (where Jack's Dad (?) was?

Was that Locke?

Uptown Bombers
Donor
ID: 035616416
Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:56

katietx
ID: 4911141721
Sun, Feb 03, 2008, 11:31

re:26 - no pic yet...maybe today. 2003 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Anniversary Edition, silver & black. Not red, but what a freakin' sexy truck!!! lol

Tree
ID: 912339
Sun, Feb 03, 2008, 11:43

Regardless of the island members not coming to his funeral, do you not think anyone that Hurley knew from home would have gone to his funeral? Based on what we've seen in his flashbacks, he makes friends everywhere. I find it highly unlikely that not one single person shows up.

he also pissed people off, even if unintentionally - look no further than the episode where he won the lottery, didn't tell his best friend (DJ Qualls), and they had a falling out because of it.

he also had bad luck abound after winning - family members were injured or they died, personal property was destroyed, etc etc. people might have stayed away because he was "bad luck"...

he was also bat$hit crazy, and that drives people away too...

katietx
ID: 4911141721
Sun, Feb 03, 2008, 21:04

Tree - zip me an email, did you change your cell #? Tried to text you today...came back????? *snif*

Tree
ID: 8113322
Sun, Feb 03, 2008, 23:37

myspaced ya...

katietx
ID: 4911141721
Mon, Feb 04, 2008, 02:07

got it...thanks!

boikin
ID: 59831214
Mon, Feb 04, 2008, 11:58

I wonder if all the talk about the show and the possible outcomes effect the writers of the show, especially when it comes to continunity the writers could have come up with some idea see someone writing about a similiar idea and then it gets pionted out that there are continutity problems. I think that if was writing for the show i would see what others were saying.

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Mon, Feb 04, 2008, 14:05

Jorge Garcia (Hurley) has said that if the strike isn't wrapped up by Valentines Day, they won't be able to film the final 8 episodes.

The strike *should* be settled sometime this week.

angryChair
ID: 100501014
Mon, Feb 04, 2008, 14:56

boikin : I have always wondered the same thing.

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Tue, Feb 05, 2008, 17:24

Lost filming has resumed. Here's a few articles about the strike:

Strike just about over

Tree
ID: 3212518
Tue, Feb 05, 2008, 19:06

I wonder if all the talk about the show and the possible outcomes effect the writers of the show,

well, we know that Heroes changed direction after the writers heard a lot of complaints during the first part of season 2.

Senator Urine
ID: 141130310
Tue, Feb 05, 2008, 19:16

Hopefully the Lost writers don't listen to the people complaining. I think the show's been perfect.

Tree
ID: 4110717
Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 21:05

five minutes in i have NO clue what is going on, but i have already had several "holy $hit!" moments...

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 21:21

It was DarkUFO that reported Lost had resumed filming. It turns out that report was incorrect.

It was a Lifetime Channel made-for-TV movie that was using the same production equipment.

Tree
ID: 4110717
Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 22:40

wow. just wow.

one of the most critical episodes in the history of the series, imho.

Tree
ID: 4110717
Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 22:40

wow. just wow.

one of the most critical episodes in the history of the series, imho.

bobo
ID: 13944256
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 09:38

tree...I couldn't agree more.

I find it absolutely amazing that a show like this continually asks/presents questions that as a viewing just keeps you hooked in the show and story.

Last nights episode set up so many questions and directions the show can go in now.

I really liked the flash backs to the 4 new characters lives and how they are so how connected as well to Flight 815.

The most interesting one for me was Naomi and the creepy black guy talking about their mission and the recruitment of the 4.

And next week we get another announcement of one of the Oceanic 6...

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 10:20

The most interesting one for me was Naomi and the creepy black guy talking about their mission and the recruitment of the 4.

Lance Reddick (from The Wire). his character is named Matthew Abbadon.

tastethewaste
ID: 239161113
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 10:45

What was the connection of Miles to Oceanic. Whose house did he 'ghostbust" I didnt see the picture.

So do you think they are in a time warp? Seems like the bermuda triangle that brought them to the island...is the island the garden of eden? Does that explain why Walt is "taller" now. Walt gets off the island, comes back 3 years later but comes back to the island in the losties time? I dont know how that works with Dharma, but in 2004 Tunisia Dharma is being excavated?
Will miles find Jacks dad and talk to him and if jacks dad is jacob then will he be talking to Jacob.

and oh what was the deal with the cabin, when sawyer asked locke why they are going east, locke said he had to go to the cabin and then Hurley was like, oh the cabin is that way, and locke said what were you saying hugo?

Didnt get that at all.

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 11:12

Hurley is recently out of a mental institution. I don't think anyone on the island knows about that (maybe he told 1 person) but I think he wants to keep it that way. It's consistant with the theme that these survivors lives are actually better on the island (Sawyer, Locke, Rose, Jack)

54, Tosh, that's pretty depressing. Hopefully they can still film the last 8 episodes successfully.

I thought it was a pretty damn good episode. A couple of introuduction episodes but it was neccessary to slow things down with so much going on at the end of season 3. Things should really pick up in the next few weeks.

A few notes:
-Zoe Bell was listed in the credits and I think she answered one of the freighter crews calls. She was Uma Thurmon's stunt double in the Kill Bill movies and was in Death Proof.
-No Desmond
-C.S. Lewis is part of the freighter crew.
-Sayid is a badass and still underutilized.
-Any guesses on who the next Oceanic 6 person will be?

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 12:02

looks like the strike might be ending..

-No Desmond

pretty sure we saw him in the background of a few scenes.

C.S. Lewis is part of the freighter crew.

actually, she's part of the crew that parachuted onto the island. That's Charlotte, the woman Ben shot.

Boxman
ID: 337352111
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 13:07

What was the connection of Miles to Oceanic.

The new group said they were there for Ben because Ben is holding someone of theirs. I think that person is Jacob. Which means to me that Miles is sent to speak with him and free him.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 13:16

I enjoy Lost and appreciate it's complexity and it's subtleties. But most of me agrees with Farn's post #18. It's just so damned cryptic. Maybe it's my hectic lifestyle (work, kids, friends, etc) that makes me too 'lazy' to get into it enough to decode all of the hidden meanings behind everything.

Perhaps in the end when I look back I'll realize how brilliantly everything was woven together.....but while always having a boatload of new questions to answer every episode does make you long for more, having half-answers or no answers to most things is frustrating sometimes.

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 13:37

63, I agree that the show is very frustrating. 40 minutes a week just doesn't give you enough. It's the ultimate DVD show. I watched the first 2 seasons on DVD (season 2 in 2 days) and then 3 was tough on regular tv-especially the first 6 episodes that were pretty weak.

Here's something interesting about the ghost house:

Link

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 13:52

When the black guy went to see Hurley in the first episode he asked "Are they still alive". I'm guessing he's referring to the crew that arrived on the helicopter.

angryChair
ID: 100501014
Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 15:22

The first of the four was named Daniel Farrady.

Michael Faraday, the famoius scientist, instantly came to my
mind because of his studies with magnetism. Who knows.

Locke's bullet wound seemed a little biblical. Similar to Jesus'
wound with the spear. Who knows, again.

I enjoyed the episode and will rewatch this weekend.

I am curious of who's house he did the "ghostbusting" in as well.

Seems like the reference to the Captain not having his wedding
ring on might imply that that is all a hoax to cover up
something BIGGER!?

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 12:40

#65 - I assumed he was either referring to the rest of the Losties (since, apparently, only 6 actually got off the island) or to The Others/Benjamin/whoever else they'd be interested in.....I'd assume it's The Others, because....

As has been noted, the helicopter crew wants Benjamin. In the flashbacks, the anthropologist was thrilled to find a Dharma link to the polar bear excavation. This would lead one to figure that whatever/whoever is behind the Crew of 4 landing on the island have been tracking/researching/searching for Dharma sites all over the world, and they finally found the island. So, when the dude asks Hurley as to whether they are alive, I wonder if he's more interested in the big picture mission to unlock the mysteries/energies of Dharma/the Island than he would be the Crew he put together.

I think Boxman is onto something in Post 62 about Jacob and the reason Miles is there. Daniel, the physicist, should be interesting as he researches the islands energies....his comment about (paraphrasing) "the light not bending right" on the island sure seemed like something with more behind it.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Tue, Feb 12, 2008, 11:12

Watched it again last night. Two questions come to my mind:

1.) How long was C.S.Lewis hanging upside down? I thought they crashed at night, but it was daylight when she flipped out of that tree.

2.) Where did they get that photo of Ben? I mean, I would doubt Ben ever leaves the island, but perhaps he has.

Bond, James Bond
Sustainer
ID: 04352469
Tue, Feb 12, 2008, 16:07

68...Those are two very valid questions but I think we'll only get the answer to the latter one at a different time.

I had posed on another site if it was possible for a person to hang upside down for a long period of time without becoming disoriented but I haven't heard of suitable answer for that yet.

I do have a few of other questions however:

1)We know Daniel was in Essex, Massachusetts when he saw the news of the supposed finding of 815. But when Ben mentioned some history about Charlotte, didn't he say that she was also from a town called Essex? I believe Essex England. Now that can't be coincidence can it?

2) When Miles was in Mrs. Gardner's house, didn't it seem that we saw the picture on her wall of what may be a young Eko and if so, why did we seen it in two different frames?

3) Also, in that same house, whenever Miles was "ghostbusting" or whatever he does, when he found the cash and drugs, it seemed to me that the cash was not American. Maybe Nigerian?

4) What was the deal with Seth Norris and his wedding ring? Was he actually wearing it in season 1 when the monster killed him? I can't remember. And since Frank believes the television report to be false, who would gain the most by implying that Flight 815 had been found with no survivors and providing visual "proof" of such?

Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Feb 12, 2008, 16:34

1. Charlotte was indeed born in Essex, England. good catch!

4. yes, he was wearing his wedding ring!

now THAT is some pretty great writing...

Tree
ID: 23181419
Thu, Feb 14, 2008, 22:27

holy. crap.

Uptown Bombers
Donor
ID: 035616416
Thu, Feb 14, 2008, 23:01

Yeah, for me, the last two episodes have really been about as great as I can remember for the whole series. I am loving these flashfowards. Just makes me crazy wondering what part of the story we have yet to find out.

katietx
ID: 4911141721
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 09:39

I only caught the last 40 min or so - my sweetie is in the hosp - and I FORGOT to DVR it. grrrr

But wow...I agree.

holy. crap.

angryChair
ID: 100501014
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 10:40

Not a bad episode.

BUT man were there a lot of commercials!

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 12:33

I love Thursdays again...and Fridays for the re-watch and further discussion of the show.

Don't know if I'm digging flash-forwards. Cool information, but now just more ends to tie. Of course, thats the draw of the show.

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 12:54

Someone said it earlier in the thread about Sayid being underutilized. It was nice to see that change. Great character, and well acted. Very surreal to see him in that copter taking off.

angryChair
ID: 100501014
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 13:42

RSF----I agree on the many loose ends. I found myself for the
first time feeling as if there are way too many, and why add
more for awhile?

I understand the appeal, but it's also nice to tie some loose ends
every now and then.

Seeing Ben as "a controller" of others was not much of a suprise.
I am starting to think he has a twin or more of himself????

What is the "list"? Why are people on the list? Are these people
that threaten Ben's goals?

I also enjoy everyone's ideas in this thread. KEEP 'em coming.
The more I hear from you all, the more I am intrigued by the
show.

Does anyone know of a flow chart on the net where fans can
review all the many connections within the show?

aC

Rendle
ID: 91291512
Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 13:46

75 - Flashforwards are definitely a good thing. Flashbacks of original characters were becoming very stale. Their before the island story was already pretty clear. The only good original character flashback of season 3 was Locke's because we found out how he got in the wheelchair. I was hoping by season 4 they would just cut flashbacks altogether so this is perfect.

76, that was me. Sayid is a solid character that seems to disappear from time to time. The scene where he found Ben's money and passports was pretty cool - it kinda implied he can and has been leaving the island whenever he wants.

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Sat, Feb 16, 2008, 13:49

The rocket/payload test that Farraday did was pretty cool. Kinda proves that the island is running on a different time than the real world. Probably should help explain why Walt turned into Greg Oden.

Really digging the last 2 episodes. I thought the start of the season was a little slow but these last 2 had a ton of "no way!" moments.

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Sat, Feb 16, 2008, 13:51

Also, really enjoyed some of the asian guys comments. "She was hot and I dug her accent" and calling Hurley tubby and then Hurley say something like "great, another Sawyer."

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sat, Feb 16, 2008, 14:20

"Walt turned into Greg Oden" LOL! Really!

You know, thats the one thing that has still bothered me...those Dharma food drops. Who was dropping those?

boikin
ID: 59831214
Wed, Feb 20, 2008, 12:39

i may be mistaken but i thought in an earlier episode they had found out that the wrekage of flight had allready been found. it would make sense since clearly they could not mount the expedition to the island as soon as the flight was found.

bobo
ID: 13944256
Fri, Feb 22, 2008, 08:55

where is the episode 4 chatter?

A nice forwarding episode...with more questions raised (won't allude to them to avoid spoilers)

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Feb 22, 2008, 17:39

Just got done rewatching it. For some reason, this was the first time I connected Aaron as being Jack's nephew. I just had never previously clicked on that. Can't wait to get the backstory on why he doesn't want to see the kid.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Feb 22, 2008, 17:39

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 22, 2008, 17:42

What is bizarre to me is that neither of the contingents have really questioned the 'rescuers'. There was more than enough information to know that there is a lot more than meets the eye....why on earth aren't these guys grilling them for more information?!?!?

Locke hopefully set the table to get that going with the grenade thing (nice touch!)......but it is just completely nonsensical for Jack, after hearing Miles' mouth and then Farraday's "rescuing you is not our PRIMARY objective" comment, to not see that something stinks to high heaven and that these saviors are up to something.

aC
ID: 561401810
Fri, Feb 22, 2008, 19:21

I wonder if Ben is one of the Oceanic 6?

I thought the episode was a average----not much that was helpful in solving mysteries. I felt the Aaron--"Freckles" connection was predictable.

I did like Locke's "grenade" move though.

Tree
ID: 371252416
Sun, Feb 24, 2008, 19:33

just got done watching it myself. i'm confused by some of the comments here.

1. Aaron is actually only Jack's half-nephew, but you're right, i never made that connection before...

2. Ben can't be one of the Oceanic 6. He wasn't on the plane.

3. Presumably, Aaron is the 5th of the 6th survivors. That means whomever is in the casket is number 6. Locke? Sawyer? Michael? gotta be one of those three, no?

4. what *did* happen to the helicopter?

5. Why 3.2 million dollars?

C1-NRB
ID: 5932328
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 10:17

Re:88-

1. Me, either.

2. I don't think he's one of the Oceanic 6, unless he stole someone's identity. And if he did that "they" would be after him, too.

3. I don't think Aaron is one of the 6, but I can't really say why. Depending on how far in the future last season's finale was (the casket), I don't think that person was one of the 6, either. If it was the "near" future, there would've been a media circus about it. If it's the distant future it could be anyone. I'm leaning towards Ben after the Sayid episode.

4. My bet is that Sayid winds up back on the island since he self-identifies as one of the Oceanic 6. That leads me to believe that the 6 all return at the same time (another reason it could be Michael or Walt in the casket.)

5. Miles knows exactly how much Ben can get his hands on. "They" are very familiar with Ben and the The Others, so it stands to reason he wouldn't make a demand he didn't know couldn't be met.

Boxman
ID: 337352111
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 13:52

Tree:

1) Correct.

2) True.

3) Is Aaron REALLY one of the 6? Not to be political here, but he was an unborn human life when the plane crashed. Also, I've believed that the Oceanic 6 refers to Americans, or a marketing slogan that the USA uses to celebrate the six American survivors. Just a theory.

4) We'll find out this week. I saw a preview showing Sayid on the chopper.

5) Is 3.2 one of THE numbers? I don't recall. Is 32 or 6 or 5 or 1 one of THE numbers?

katietx
ID: 201411622
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 14:33

I'm so damn confused I can hardly stand it.

So, if Kate has Aaron...where is Claire??????

Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 15:17

um. dead? or back on the island?

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 15:20

I'm in with "jettisoned into another time period when the helicopter veers off course". I'm not sure the show didn't forget the "Land of the" in front of its "Lost" title sometimes.

DB
ID: 291462213
Mon, Feb 25, 2008, 15:24

I have read that in one of the next 3 episodes Sayid and Desmond meet the captain of the freighter and learn the real mission the freighter people are in.

JCS
All-Star
ID: 020102934
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 05:32

About Episode 4 with the Kate trial : maybe I misunderstood, and I don't remember the exact words, but basicall Jack mentions during the trial that Kate was trying to save everybody's life, and that without her he wouldn't have attained the shore, etc. What retained my attention was that he mentioned that she tried to save "all 8 of us" or something like this, and that it was unfortunate that 2 of them still died.

Now did I dream this sequence, or does that mean that 8 people actually escaped from the island, apparently by air (plance? helicopter?), that they crashed not far from another island, and that they were rescued from that other island? I really think he mentioned "8 persons" and "2 of them dying", which really sounds like the Oceanic 6 and thus he's not talking about the original Oceanic crash, but actually about another crash where they flew from the island.

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 06:26

Now did I dream this sequence, or does that mean that 8 people actually escaped from the island, apparently by air (plance? helicopter?), that they crashed not far from another island, and that they were rescued from that other island?

You weren't dreaming. I heard the same thing. Now with the whole time rift story line going on, what if a lot of them do get off the island but go bats#it crazy and wind up dying like the guy last night? It would be kind of hard to explain to the mass media and public about that whole story.

I still think we haven't seen Jack's darkest side yet. With the progression of his character I wouldn't be surprised if he just rips Aaron out of Claire's arms in an episode and puts him on a plane.

Donkey Hunter
ID: 521392112
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 08:13

I think that the two people (8 living - Oceanic 6) that survived the crash but then died have to be Charlie and Claire. Charlie made contact with Penny and Claire had to survive to have Aaron.

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 08:46

JCS, Jack was lying. He made up the story to get Kate off on the charges. That is why Kate couldn't listen to him anymore. The circumstances surrounding them leaving the island (and some not leaving?) is really intriguing at this point. Maybe they'll reach that part of the story at the end of season 4.

Last night's episode was ridiculously good. Looks like there will be 3 more episodes and then a one month break before they air the final 5 episodes.

aC
ID: 561401810
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 10:27

If I am correct that was the first time on the show that a successful "outside" contact was made with someone close to a character. (Desmond to Penny on the phone). Wait! Charlie, by accident, also made contact with Penny.

Desmond is my favorite character on the show and I have always felt that he holds a lot of answers to what is "really" going on.

The fact that he is/was Farraday's control variable was excellent writing. The connections were flawless.

100

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Feb 29, 2008, 17:43

Last night was "Awesome!".

101

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, Mar 02, 2008, 08:48

I love desmond episodes. A couple of questions though. At the end of season 2 in desmonds flashback, penny finds him in LA training for his boat race around the world. Wouldnt this meeting now be different since a meeting in 1996 may have altered the chance to meet in 2001?

How did Naomi have the picture of Penny and Desmond? Did Desmond travel through time and give the picture to Naomi? I cant imagine the photog who took it made copies and distributed them.

How long have the crash victims of 815 been on the island? If time works different on the island (i.e. took sayid and desmond 20 minutes yet was almost 2 island days then why are they both still around christmas?

Loved the episode though. And i really think the writers were paying homage to Back to the future when farraday takes des back to his lab and is running around and writing on chalkboards. I was waiting for him to say 1.21 Gigowatts!

102

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Mar 07, 2008, 12:29

AARGH!!!! F'n dish went on the fritz during half this epi. Gonna have to watch online, I guess.

103

aC
ID: 561401810
Fri, Mar 07, 2008, 20:31

RSF--Do you have DirectTV? Mine went nutz too.

104

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Mar 07, 2008, 22:01

Yep.

105

aC
ID: 561401810
Fri, Mar 07, 2008, 23:30

Maybe it was the EM waves? :)

106

Tree
ID: 242231217
Wed, Mar 12, 2008, 21:53

EM Waves? Elizabeth Mitchell? who played Juliet?

the same Elizabeth Mitchell who did a fully nude lesbian sex scene with Angelina Jolie in the movie Gia?

yea, it's hawt.

107

Tree
ID: 442541318
Thu, Mar 13, 2008, 22:08

this was a double "holy $hit!" episode...

with 15 minutes ago, i thought the episode was over, with that one big reveal...

but noooooo, 10 minutes later, we get an even bigger one, and one that had my jaw on the ground for 5 solid minutes...

108

Uptown Bombers
Donor
ID: 035616416
Thu, Mar 13, 2008, 22:43

No doubt. Tonight was a great, great episode. Did I mention great?

109

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Thu, Mar 13, 2008, 22:45

I thought it was ok. Some crappy writing when Sun yelled Jin's name during the birth. They keep on trying to give the audience the "OMG" moments at the end of the episode.

110

katietx
ID: 201411622
Thu, Mar 13, 2008, 23:11

OMG indeed. I knew "Michael" was coming back...but wow.

111

Tree
ID: 442541318
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 00:19

Some crappy writing when Sun yelled Jin's name during the birth.

Why was that crappy writing? it was crucial to the plot of the episode, and weighs heavy on where the series goes from here.

They keep on trying to give the audience the "OMG" moments at the end of the episode.

and more often than not, it pays off.

do you not think it's a very key plot point that not only is Jin dead, but his death date on the headstone is the date flight 815 crashed?

112

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 00:36

Great episode and I usually don't like the Sun/Jin centrics.

Crazy ending and where does this leave us for the Oceanic 6? Original reports were that Jin was one of them but that looks pretty unlikely right now. Aaron could be one but that one will have to come with a crazy explanation. It's pretty cool when a show can kill a character off and they don't have to leave the show.

Anyone catch Nikki on Sun's TV?

Next week has to be good as it's followed by a 4 week break.

113

Tree
ID: 442541318
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 00:39

Aaron could be one but that one will have to come with a crazy explanation.

i think the explanation is simple.

his birth mother died on the island, so Kate either adopted him legally, or "adopted" him and claimed him as her own.

114

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 01:16

Why was that crappy writing? it was crucial to the plot of the episode, and weighs heavy on where the series goes from here.

They didn't need her to say "Jin" for us to fall into the trap of thinking Jin was running to the hospital. It was over the top and a little corny.

do you not think it's a very key plot point that not only is Jin dead, but his death date on the headstone is the date flight 815 crashed?

Yeah, it is. I'll be pissed though if he's alive on the island. Hurley and Sun going to his grave would be pretty stupid if he was still alive.

115

Tree
ID: 33246146
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 09:01

Yeah, it is. I'll be pissed though if he's alive on the island. Hurley and Sun going to his grave would be pretty stupid if he was still alive.

why would you be pissed? i'm guessing that Jin, realizing his wife had to get off the island to survive, sacrificed his own opportunity, for her.

and it wouldn't be stupid if:
a. they have to give an appearance that the other people on the island are dead.

b. to them, the other people on the island ARE dead, since they feel like they will never see them again.

based on how the puzzle pieces seem to be falling into place, i feel like those that got off the island (Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sayid, Hurley, Sun) knew they were leaving the other survivors behind and had no choice but to do so.

We've already seen at least two of those six begin to descend into madness, and a third become an assassin for someone who we presume he hates tremendously.

Whatever they are involved in, it is heavy.

116

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 11:14

i think the explanation is simple.

his birth mother died on the island, so Kate either adopted him legally, or "adopted" him and claimed him as her own.

This is Lost. There's no way it's that simple.

I thought it was ok. Some crappy writing when Sun yelled Jin's name during the birth. They keep on trying to give the audience the "OMG" moments at the end of the episode.

Yeah, that was a reach to misdirect the audience kinda similar to Jack saying his dad was upstairs in "Through the Looking Glass". Lying to your audience to create shock value later is not always the best way to go.

One thing that was annoying was Desmond's reaction to the captain telling him that it was Charles Widmore's boat going after Ben. Shouldn't that have just blown his mind?

117

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 12:20

We've already seen at least two of those six begin to descend into madness, and a third become an assassin for someone who we presume he hates tremendously.

The fates of those who remain on the island is going to be amongst the most fascinating stories to eventually be told. Sayid working for Ben has to do with Sayid trying to protect the survivors who remained on the island. I can't remember the exact quote, but Ben said something to the effect of (to Sayid) "But you must do this to protect your friends"

.....and then you have the guy from The Wire asking Hurley (in the asylum) "Are they alive?" --- so obviously the Widmore people, who presumably staged the found wreckage, know there are survivors still on the island.

Also interesting but subtle was Rose's husband (forget his name) noting that Rose's cancer is supposedly under complete remission while on the island.

118

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 12:45

One of the biggest mysteries of the show involves Bernard. If he's a dentist, why the hell can't he take care of his teeth?

119

angryChair
ID: 100501014
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 15:12

Who do you all think the blood stains were from on the ship?
Another stir crazy shipmate? That seen with the girl jumping
over was odd! A litlle too "Jacob Marlet" for me! :)

I still feel Juliette, in the end, will be ONE of the most evil in the
entire show. Her emotionless face is creepy like Ben's.

I like that Michael is finally back. I thought it eas Eko at first
while he was in the shadows. a little wishful thinking on my
part, I suppose!

120

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 16:10

why would you be pissed? i'm guessing that Jin, realizing his wife had to get off the island to survive, sacrificed his own opportunity, for her.

I'd be pissed because going to his grave to "talk" to him when they know he's not dead is pretty stupid. I guess I should wait for it to unravel to judge it.

It's going to be interesting see why the people that left, left. Kate found out she'll still be a criminal once she gets off, Hurley doesn't really have much to go back to, and Sayid would never leave everyone on the island unless he had to.

121

MBT
ID: 24221149
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 16:45

Just a few thoughts about the recent weeks:

- We know there is an Oceanic 6, but we don't know how many people actually got off the island. Who's to say there aren't more people who came back, but out of the spotlight.

- Why did the "6" go public, after all everyone thought they were dead? How did they go public?

- Michael being Ben's "man on the boat" was a little too obvious in my opinion.

- I like the whole time warp feel to the show lately, but it's been difficult keeping up with who's where/when, especially the last episode.

122

beastiemiked
ID: 65112917
Fri, Mar 14, 2008, 21:00

2+ weeks without Miles is way too long. The guy must have dropped that grenade by now.

123

boikin
ID: 59831214
Wed, Mar 19, 2008, 16:54

has anyone else noticed that the charcters allways seem to appear in pairs in flash forwards? you never seem to see more that to charcters together in future. And they never seemed surprised that they are the only one to show up to something.

124

Tree
ID: 10292015
Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 22:07

wow.

125

aC
ID: 561401810
Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 22:31

Is that WOW for tonight's episode? I live on the West Coast.

126

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 22:54

aC, yer as bad as me. I live spoiler free, but damned if I can't stop myself from cracking this thread mere hours before the show...I'm weak and I know it... :)

127

Tree
ID: 10292015
Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 23:09

yea, that was for tonight.

let's just say a lot of questions got answered. some great, some small.

and then, the episode got even better.

128

Bond, James Bond
Sustainer
ID: 04352469
Fri, Mar 21, 2008, 23:43

My gawd! Now THIS is how a television show should be! Great writing, great acting, believability, awesome undertones, recognition of their audience, etc....

I have loved every one of the eight episodes thus far this year and am actually astounded of how many complexities can be satisfactorily revealed and still maintain Lost's wide sense of purpose.

You can say what you want about previous shows, Lost, IMHO, is about as good as it gets. I think its operating at peak condition right now and although I know we all want answers to all of our queries, it'll be a sad, sad day when they turn out the lights on this great series.

We've come a long way since Charlie so aptly described what we were feeling in declaring "Where are we?" and I feel there is so much more that'll be revealed yet to come that'll knock our socks off.

Any other Lost lovers out there?????

129

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 00:42

Now that The Wire is over, Lost is probably my favorite show on.

Maybe it was high expectations but I was a little disappointed by the last one. That would have been a tough one to end the season on. Good thing there's more on the way.

Looks like Karl is done. I doubt Rousseau is dead. There has to be a flashback for her at some point.

130

beastiemiked
ID: 402141714
Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 19:25

Yeah, no way Rousseau is dead.

131

katietx
ID: 201411622
Sat, Mar 29, 2008, 17:35

I know the next "new" episode is supposed to be on a different day and time? At least that's what I remember hearing.

But when? I know Tree's gotta know. ;-)

132

Bond, James Bond
Sustainer
ID: 04352469
Sun, Mar 30, 2008, 00:15

As I understand it, Lost will return on April 24th and will air at 10 eastern.

133

C1-NRB
ID: 551212915
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 00:07

Wow.

134

Tree
ID: 57332254
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 06:33

post 133 says it all.

the carnage was amazing. and, well, good to see Smokey back.

135

katietx
ID: 201411622
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 22:22

Try explaining smokey to someone who hasn't been watching the show.

136

Tree
ID: 16312818
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 22:59

"it's a smoke monster."
"a what?"
"a smoke monster!"
"what's a smoke monster?"
"that thing you just saw."
"Yea, but what is it?"
"a smoke monster?"
"right. i get that. but why's it a smoke monster?"
"as opposed to some other kind of monster?"

137

katietx
ID: 201411622
Tue, Apr 29, 2008, 19:45

um, yeah. that's pretty much how the conversation went. He then asked if there wasn't a basketball game on? ;-)

138

MBT
ID: 34410914
Fri, May 09, 2008, 15:12

More "Wow" last night. Glad to see they didn't leave us a big cliffhanger ;)

139

MBT
ID: 10448168
Fri, May 16, 2008, 09:49

Two weeks and no comments other than mine? Is nobody else watching this season?

140

Mike D
ID: 124271622
Fri, May 16, 2008, 23:52

Alrighty, I'll chime in with some thoughts of mine and maybe we can get some discussion going.

After "There's No Place Like Home (part 1)" ended last night, I found myself sitting on the edge of my seat, with paper and pen in hand, and my mouth wide open just staring at my TiVo screen saying "Do you want to keep or delete this recording?" It took me a couple minutes to regain my composure. No, the episode didn't throw me for a loop like THE CONSTANT (although where it's leading may do so!) but I couldn't help but marvel at the sheer AWESOMENESS of this show. The amazing gift that we have been treated to this great combination of writing and acting for 4 years now. And I couldn't help but wonder "How on earth do they manage to write Finale after Finale that are so engaging and suspenseful and how on earth is any TV show ever going to match up to the brilliance of this show in the future?" The crazy thing? We're only an hour in and have 2 more to go! Yeah, that's one obsessed Lost Fan's reaction! But man, you put aside all of the mysteries of the show that we analyze to death, and you still have a fantastic drama with a whole slew of wonderfully portrayed characters in which we're all invested. You think the stakes can't get any higher each season, but they do! The fate of the island, the fate of their rescue are at stake. Lots of people are in harm's way. Adding to that the crazy LOST mythology with the mysterious Orchid Station? Well, that's the icing on the cake folks! Quality quality stuff!

Tonight's episode was pretty much a setup episode for the final 2 hours, very similar to season 1's Exodus Part 1. But they revealed a slew of good stuff about the Oceanic 6.

Also, characters that haven't seen each other for the majority of the season are reuniting, most are trying to get OFF of the island while Ben and Locke are still working towards saving it from the likes of Keamy (supposedly working off of Charles Widmore's Plan B orders).
Right now our Oceanic 6 are scattered all across the Island. Jack and Hurley are about to be paired up. Sayid and Kate are together. And Sun and Aaron are aboard a freighter that is basically a ticking time bomb. Not to mention Locke and Ben are literally trying to "change the course" of the Island forever! What's in store in the final 2 hours? We'll see the circumstances in which the 6 get off the island. We'll find out who is in that coffin in the future. We will see Sawyer make a decision to stay behind. Will we find out what's up with Claire? Will we see the Oceanic 6 in a further future time working together to get BACK to the Island? Are we ready for the big SECRET Cliffhanger this season entitled "THE FROZEN DONKEY WHEEL?" Will the frozen part have something to do with the Parka that Ben was wearing in the Tunisian desert? Lots of Questions folks and just 1 more 2 hour episode this season.

Phew!!!!!!! It's been a great year so far and I'd hate to see Lost leave us until next January. But as far as I am concerned, this is the best show going on TV today!

141

Tree
ID: 504291619
Sat, May 17, 2008, 00:09

this is the best show going on TV today!

i'm at the point where i honestly believe that Lost is the best television program ever. nothing has ever been as riveting as this show, while maintaining the ability to be smart, funny, deep, and though-provoking throughout.

MBT - to me, it's almost becoming too difficult to discuss this show episodically. it's a broad, sweeping, epic adventure and it's elements of sci-fi, action, mystery, comedy, and even cheesy romance make it something that just...i dunno...i just doesn't break down into episodic discussion so easily anymore.

it's like...one of those hourglasses you flip upside and the sand pours from one chamber to the next...except that instead of two chambers, there are three, and somehow, both the top and the bottom chamber pour into the middle, even though it's impossible for the the sand to be moving from the bottom to the middle....

and then you turn it upside down, and the sand pours from the middle...even though it's impossible for the sand to move from the middle to the top...

and you just keep doing that over, and over, and over again, trying to wrap your brain around it.

142

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sat, May 17, 2008, 06:17

Mike D and Tree are absolutely correct. This is the best show, bar none, on television today. Once we have the completed work in front of us we'll be able to definitively say that this is the best show of all time.

There are three seasons left including this one correct?

How are they going to keep it going for another two seasons once they are off the island? Will they continue flash forwards and flashbacks? How did Jack's dad and Charlie's "spirit" get off the island? Did this mysterious Jacob hitch a ride with them off the island and that's why we're seeing Jack's dad and Charlie?

Then there's the whole time travel element. When Ben says they are going to move the island, I don't think it's a place. I think it's a time.

I love this show. Assuming the acting and the storyline continue to be top shelf material, the fact that all the major characters stay together from start to finish will cement this show as the greatest of all time.

143

Tree
ID: 15444176
Sat, May 17, 2008, 07:56

There are three seasons left including this one correct?

i believe so.

How are they going to keep it going for another two seasons once they are off the island? Will they continue flash forwards and flashbacks? How did Jack's dad and Charlie's "spirit" get off the island? Did this mysterious Jacob hitch a ride with them off the island and that's why we're seeing Jack's dad and Charlie?

i think they continue the flash segments. why fix it when it ain't broke, and the show really kicked into hyperdrive when they switched from the flashbacks to the flashforwards. i will say this - after last year's cliff hanger, i have NO IDEA how they will top it, but i'm definitely reminded of the end of season 2 when they were getting ready to go to motherf*cking war.

and yea, i think that's what we are about to have. When Ben used the mirror, i'm pretty sure he was communicating with Richard and the Others, and it is about to be on!

speaking of Richard, i love how he worked for Mittelos BioScience. yep, check that. M-i-t-t-e-l-o-s becomes l-o-s-t-t-i-m-e.

Then there's the whole time travel element. When Ben says they are going to move the island, I don't think it's a place. I think it's a time.

no question. that's why they have to take EXACT coordinates. it's like a rip in the fabric of time. a worm hole, if you will.

I love this show. Assuming the acting and the storyline continue to be top shelf material, the fact that all the major characters stay together from start to finish will cement this show as the greatest of all time.

if Michael Emerson does not win an Emmy for his portrayal of Ben Linus before this show ends its run, it will be one of the greatest travesties in the history of award shows.

144

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sat, May 17, 2008, 09:07

i think they continue the flash segments. why fix it when it ain't broke, and the show really kicked into hyperdrive when they switched from the flashbacks to the flashforwards.

I would love to see the continuance of that. Yet the main connection right now between "island time" and the flash forwards/backs replies primarily (There have been some Others related flashbacks that have occurred on the island.) between them being on the island versus off. When they are completely off, what will the connect be? Their linkage together? Or will they split the show between those left behind on the island and those rescued?

after last year's cliff hanger, i have NO IDEA how they will top it, but i'm definitely reminded of the end of season 2 when they were getting ready to go to motherf*cking war.

That's the GREATEST thing about this show. Just when even the most faithful fans like us think they simply CANNOT top what they did before, they do so with ease. Remember how big a deal it was when the hatch was opening for the first time? That looks like nothing compared to what we've been spoiled with thus far.

speaking of Richard, i love how he worked for Mittelos BioScience. yep, check that. M-i-t-t-e-l-o-s becomes l-o-s-t-t-i-m-e.

Beautiful comment. I've always believed that Richard is more of a time traveler than someone who simply doesn't age. We may be seeing his prevalence very shortly.

if Michael Emerson does not win an Emmy for his portrayal of Ben Linus before this show ends its run, it will be one of the greatest travesties in the history of award shows.

100% pure correctness. It's one of those roles that the actor seems to be born to play. Emerson may not do much with the rest of his career, but he may not have to. His portrayal of Benjamin Linus indicates his ability and would be remembered even if the show stopped today. Without a solid Ben Linus character portrayal this show could have very well fallen on its face.

145

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Sat, May 17, 2008, 11:06

Image from the pilot

If that's the same baton, I don't know if I'll be able to wait 2 more seasons to see the rest of the story unfold.

146

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Sat, May 17, 2008, 11:11

Solid episode but it did feel incomplete. A 2 week wait at this point is brutal.

Mike, I can't wait to see what the 'frozen donkey wheel' is. I assume you're right about Ben's parka as well as time travel and the orchid. Hell it might even have something to do with polar bears.

They called the big moment in last season's finale they called the 'snake in the mailbox' which turned out to be Jack and Kate in a flashforward.

147

Mike D
ID: 124271622
Sun, May 18, 2008, 00:49

I've been thinking about this whole Island moving business and the parka even more now. What IF...the island DOES move physical locations, not just in time itself and moves to a colder climate? Remember Hurley said the bad guys will move with the island too.....and maybe that's how the polar bears got on the island in the first place???? Now, this doesn't mean that it might not move in TIME also....but for the moment I'm thinking that maybe Ben's leap to Tunisia October 2005 may not happen until season 5 sometime... And with the island in a brand new colder climate, perhaps wearing the PARKA is just a way of life...someone shoots Ben and he transports off the island to Tunisia or something.

Yeah..lots of holes in that one...but come on FROZEN DONKEY WHEEL? Tying the polar bears in would be absolutely awesome, wouldn't it??? I like it!!! No more Tropical LOST next year. Let's go for Frozen Lost!!!

148

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, May 18, 2008, 01:11

Post 140 can be summarized with "Lost, yeah...I kinda like it."

149

Tree
ID: 94481722
Sun, May 18, 2008, 01:17

What IF...the island DOES move physical locations, not just in time itself and moves to a colder climate?

my thinking is that the island doesn't move, but the rip in the fabric of time does.

150

Mike D
ID: 124271622
Sun, May 18, 2008, 02:10

We now know that the Orchid will be used to move the island (I think) but this episode has also left me wondering about a few other things.

Namely:
1) It is FINALLY settled. Jack DOES know Claire is his half-sister, and Aaron is his nephew, because Mrs. Littleton tells him so. We know this for sure now.

2) Hurley's Camaro. The numbers being in the odometer like that make me think that the numbers were a tool to get Hurley to the Island. Now they are trying to bring him back I think. Is this the beginning of Hugo losing his mind or has he always been sorta loopy?

3) Ben ALWAYS has a plan. That statement, along with the INSANE amount of detail in his instructions to Locke, are really making me feel good about good ole Ben again. We know that Ben and Widmore are seemingly tangled in a game of course correction although we're not exactly clear if Sun's daddy is truly involved.
4) Sun. There are some things that struck me as...off...about Sun. First, if we are about 2 months after they got off the Island, her baby bump just did not look right to me. I can't put my finger on it yet, but something is off. Also, the way she spoke to her father...totally uncharacteristic. Now I can see her being angry with daddy, but really, for her to go to that length to make him miserable is extreme. I think something more will be revealed here. Also, with Sun now having a controlling interest in Paik, maybe we will start to see some confidential documents that may shed some light on Dharma and the Island.

5) Richard! I love that he is back but why why why why why was he following Sayid and Kate? Why did he take them, and is he taking them to the Temple? WHY???
(6) Scattered O6. Kate and Sayid: in the jungle with Richard and Others...destination unknown. Jack: in the jungle with Sawyer. Sun and Aaron: on the Freighter with Desmond, Jin, and Michael, fearing a bomb. Hurley: Orchid station with Locke and Ben. So, HOW are these the Oceanic 6? Is something going to happen that will bring them all together, or are we now supposed to realize that the rescued WERE chosen? If they are in all different places, some with others who don't get off, why are they a group? Will they be picked out to be saved...or come together?

151

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sun, May 18, 2008, 06:34

Mike D: Your contributions (Tree's too) are awesome. Please keep it coming.

(6) Scattered O6. Kate and Sayid: in the jungle with Richard and Others...destination unknown. Jack: in the jungle with Sawyer. Sun and Aaron: on the Freighter with Desmond, Jin, and Michael, fearing a bomb. Hurley: Orchid station with Locke and Ben. So, HOW are these the Oceanic 6? Is something going to happen that will bring them all together, or are we now supposed to realize that the rescued WERE chosen? If they are in all different places, some with others who don't get off, why are they a group? Will they be picked out to be saved...or come together?

Every show or movie that deals with time travel has their own rules. Whether its Terminator where nothing material can come thru or The Time Machine where you and the machine go back and forth. You just have to KNOW that the Lost writers will come up with their version of this.

I think the O6 are "chosen" because when something moves in time in Lost, the "island" will remain but perhaps some chosen contents will not. None of the O6 have a commune with the island like Locke, Linus and the Others so I believe they mean nothing to the island and aren't worth "saving". So, when/if Linus moves the island I think THE island will indeed move (whether its in time and/or location) but A island will remain.

IIRC, during the O6 press conference this past episode, the Oceanic PR person refers to them being on a specific island. Perhaps that is A island, but certainly not THE island.

Certainly Charles Whidmore knows about the O6 after they are rescued. If the Oceanic description of where they were is accurate, then Whidmore knows where the island really is. Otherwise, either somebody is lying or Linus pulls off a switch-a-roo like I described.

We also know that part of the O6 are people on the freighter. Imagine a whole island moving. That would cause such a seismic and oceanic upheavel such that this freighter (along with parts of Southeast Asia) would be annilihated. I'm guessing it would make the asian tsunami look like a bad day at the beach.

152

Tree
ID: 5425189
Sun, May 18, 2008, 10:42

Is this the beginning of Hugo losing his mind or has he always been sorta loopy?

he spent time in an asylum before the plane crashed. that was where he first heard the numbers, by another patient who kept repeating them. for a little bit of background on the numbers, where they came from, and well, everything about them actually, go here to Lostpedia...

We know that Ben and Widmore are seemingly tangled in a game of course correction although we're not exactly clear if Sun's daddy is truly involved.

i have little doubt that the reason ben and widmore can't kill each other is that they are each other's constant in the whole time travel mythos of the show.

i also have little doubt that the involvement of Paik Industries. They are an industrial company that at the very least makes automotive equipment, and my thinking is that they provided some of the key pieces for the building of the various Dharma buildings. i mean, we do know that Paik shipped stuff in large ships for Hanso Corp, who were also involved in the Dharma Initiative.

4) Sun. There are some things that struck me as...off...about Sun. First, if we are about 2 months after they got off the Island, her baby bump just did not look right to me. I can't put my finger on it yet, but something is off. Also, the way she spoke to her father...totally uncharacteristic. Now I can see her being angry with daddy, but really, for her to go to that length to make him miserable is extreme. I think something more will be revealed here.

she lost her husband. she lost the father of her child. the things her father forced Jin to do during their marriage changed him into a different man - he went from the tender, kind-hearted son of a fisherman to an angry, bitter, killer. it wasn't until he got away from her father, that he went back to his "old" self on the island.

she has EVERY reason to be very angry at her father. additionally, i believe that the Oceanic Six know a lot - that they are hiding the fact many of the survivors are still on the island. although, i sincerely believe that Jin does die.

5) Richard! I love that he is back but why why why why why was he following Sayid and Kate? Why did he take them, and is he taking them to the Temple? WHY???

he was on his way to the Orchid, per Ben's mirror message. Sayid and Kate were just in the wrong place at the weong time.

(6) Scattered O6. Kate and Sayid: in the jungle with Richard and Others...destination unknown.

Orchid.

Jack: in the jungle with Sawyer.

Orchid.

Sun and Aaron: on the Freighter with Desmond, Jin, and Michael, fearing a bomb.

I think somehow, something sends Sun and Aaron to the Orchid. Jin and Michael, and possibly Desmond, die on that boat.

Hurley: Orchid station with Locke and Ben. So, HOW are these the Oceanic 6?

Is something going to happen that will bring them all together, or are we now supposed to realize that the rescued WERE chosen? If they are in all different places, some with others who don't get off, why are they a group? Will they be picked out to be saved...or come together?

Like i said, i think something brings them all to the Orchid. Jack and Sawyer are going after Hurley. so that's two, plus Sawyer.

Kate, Sayid, and Aaron are being led to the Orchid, by Richard. that's 5.

Sun is the only wildcard. my thinking is that there is an explosion on the boat, and that Desmond gets Sun off the boat, and they survive. perhaps the explosion temporarily rips the fabric of time, and some how, they both end up in the Orchid.

like i said, i believe Jin and Michael die. i think Locke and Sawyer survive, and remain on the island. i believe Desmond gets off the island with the Oceanic 6, and lives in isolation with Penny somewhere.

to me, the love story of Desmond and Penny, a tale of loss, betrayal, and a love across all time, is the "heart" of this show.

153

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sun, May 18, 2008, 11:10

What can we derive from this?

154

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sun, May 18, 2008, 11:16

In the video he refers to the Casimir Effect.

Casmirir Effect

In physics, the Casimir effect is a weak force exerted between separate objects, which is due to neither charge, gravity, nor the exchange of particles, but instead is due to resonance of all-pervasive energy fields in the intervening space between the objects. This is sometimes described in terms of virtual particles interacting with the objects, due to the mathematical form of one possible way of calculating the strength of the effect.

Wikipedia

Casimir effect and wormholes

Exotic matter with negative energy density is required to stabilize a wormhole.[15] Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever[16] pointed out that the quantum mechanics of the Casimir effect can be used to produce a locally mass-negative region of space-time, and suggested that negative effect could be used to stabilize a wormhole to allow faster than light travel.

155

Rendle
Donor
ID: 014815714
Sun, May 18, 2008, 14:46

Another related idea for the frozen donkey wheel besides polar bears, the orchid, and Ben's parka is those arctic guys at the end of season 2 who called Penny. It is really strange that they haven't revisited anything related to that scene since it happened.

156

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, May 18, 2008, 15:58

I agree that Paik Industries has something to do with the island. We know they are connected with Widmore. I wonder if Sun has found this out as well. Who was the 2nd person she was referring to responsible for Jin's "death"? I would assume it is widmore. Once she takes over her dad's business she can dethrone her father and take on widmore. (Maybe even work for Ben against her father and Widmore)

I dont buy the fact that Widmore and Ben are constants for each other. We dont know if Widmore even time travels but why would ben need a constant. We saw him travel to October 2005 and go find Sayid. So wouldnt sayid be his constant in that instance?

From the Constant:

Dan: Something familiar in both times. All this, see this is variables, it's random, it's chaotic. Every equation needs stability, something known. It's called a constant. Desmond, you have no constant. When you go to the future, nothing there is familiar. So if you want to stop this, then you need to find something there...something that you really, really care about....that also exists back here, in 1996.

DESMOND: This constant...can it be a person?

DAN: Yeah, maybe. But you have to make some kind of contact. Didn't you say you were off on a boat, in the middle of nowhere?

So if its something you need to really really care about why would Ben be widmore's. Unless care can be equated to hate as well as love. I wont completely rule it out as something is keeping each of them from killing each other. I just imagined it was useless to try as the island wont let either die a la Michael.

I agree, unfortunately I think Jin is dead which really bums me out.

I agree Michael is dead too, but he better do something worthy of "saving the island" because if the island is keeping him alive to fail on the freighter, well that is pretty stupid.

desmond cannot die. he has to be reunited with penny to fight off whoever ben sends to kill penny (sayid?)

very upset so far with how theyve treated the charlie, claire, des flashes this year. IMO they need to either say des was lying about that flash or claire needs to be on some helicopter. maybe (if shes not already dead) she is one of the 2 that is part of the oceanic 6 cover story, i seriously doubt this however.

Kate, Sayid, and Aaron are being led to the Orchid, by Richard. that's 5.

aarons on the freighter not with kate.

one problem with the flash forwards it leaves little suspense with the going ons on the island. why do i care that jack had to get his appendix out? i know he will be fine...why do i care that juliet is worried he will bleed out. i know he will be fine. i dont care that ben is "captured" by keamy. i dont care that sun or aaron are on the freighter, i dont care that sayid and kate were caught by the others. theres no suspernse on what could be suspensful events.

I do have a question on Ben. Earlier in the season he seems to send Harper ("the therapist") to give juliet a message. She then vanishes after whispers etc. She also delivers the message that Ben is exactly where he wants to be. Now if Ben can send someone to communicate to anyone on the island AND he can travel through time, why is there any need for flashing mirrors and secret codes like 14J?

As for this being the best show ever, i tend to agree but I guess I just hold the show to an impossibly high standard. I would love if everything added up from beginning to end. I just feel like theyve left a lot of storylines unfinished or tried to go a different direction but it went another way that doesnt add up completely. Still think its great but there are a lot of problems I have had with it.

157

Tree
ID: 5425189
Sun, May 18, 2008, 16:27

very upset so far with how theyve treated the charlie, claire, des flashes this year. IMO they need to either say des was lying about that flash or claire needs to be on some helicopter. maybe (if shes not already dead) she is one of the 2 that is part of the oceanic 6 cover story, i seriously doubt this however.

i don't see it being an issue. we've got a LONG ways to go until the end of the show, and that's a hole they won't leave unfilled.

aarons on the freighter not with kate.

i stand corrected. even so, my theory still holds true. however Sun gets to the Orchid, so goes Aaron.

one problem with the flash forwards it leaves little suspense with the going ons on the island. why do i care that jack had to get his appendix out? i know he will be fine...why do i care that juliet is worried he will bleed out. i know he will be fine.

do we? on this show, i don't take things like that at face value. never the mind it could even be a plot device to get Juliet in the line of fire, getting her killed as she thinks she's saving jack, or something similar.

i dont care that ben is "captured" by keamy. i dont care that sun or aaron are on the freighter, i dont care that sayid and kate were caught by the others. theres no suspernse on what could be suspensful events.

i don't even know how you can say that. we have no idea what sort of things could come out of the above. yea, we "know" five of the six you mentioned above end up off island. but we don't honestly know what happens between now and then.

i mean, by your logic, the show is over. we know who got off the island, and we know who didn't.

but the show is so much more than that. SO much more.

Now if Ben can send someone to communicate to anyone on the island AND he can travel through time, why is there any need for flashing mirrors and secret codes like 14J?

because if Ben is the only who can do that, what good is it? he still needed to communicate with the Others somehow. and the 14J code was Alex telling HIM something was up - not the other way around.

158

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sun, May 18, 2008, 16:34

i mean, by your logic, the show is over. we know who got off the island, and we know who didn't.

This show has already had a much deeper meaning than simply getting people off an island after a plane crash. I believe the show is called Lost because these people are lost themselves; physically, spiritually, and emotionally. Lost in their purpose in life, and lost in just how connected they all are to each other all the while thinking the only thing they have in common is that they were on the same flight.

The question is, how do they go from Lost to Found?

Getting off the island means nothing on this show in terms of being Found. Where else would Locke rather be right now?

159

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, May 18, 2008, 16:45

i don't even know how you can say that. we have no idea what sort of things could come out of the above. yea, we "know" five of the six you mentioned above end up off island. but we don't honestly know what happens between now and then.

i mean, by your logic, the show is over. we know who got off the island, and we know who didn't.

everyone I mentioned gets off the island as we have seen all of them in Flash forwards not 5 of the six. Im not saying its not dramatic or suspensful. The explosives on the boat still leave jin, michael and desmond exposed. But we know that Sun and Aaron will be fine. Therefore them being on the freighter and in jeopardy is not suspenseful.

Imagine how suspensful it would be to see Richard and an army of others with guns pointed at Sayid and Kate wihtout knowing Sayid and Kate will be getting off the island in the next episode. Now we know the others are not going to hurt sayid and kate.

This doesnt mean the show is over but it does end any suspenseful moments of peril any of these characters are in for the time being.

I like the flash forwards and i think it is a refreshing break from some of ths stale flashbacks we were being given. But I just wanted to point out the problem in the flash forwards.

As for Bens communication, even if he is the only one able to do that, he could send his message that way instead of sending a secret mirror message to Richard.

160

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, May 18, 2008, 16:49

This show has already had a much deeper meaning than simply getting people off an island after a plane crash. I believe the show is called Lost because these people are lost themselves; physically, spiritually, and emotionally. Lost in their purpose in life, and lost in just how connected they all are to each other all the while thinking the only thing they have in common is that they were on the same flight.

The question is, how do they go from Lost to Found?

Getting off the island means nothing on this show in terms of being Found. Where else would Locke rather be right now?

I agree. that wasnt my point at all. Island story now loses suspense when people we know will be ok are currently in peril.

Jack-appendix taken out--no need to worry we know he will be fine from appendictomy.

Sayid and Kate---attacked by hostiles.---no need to worry, we know they will be ok because we know they get off the island.

Ben---surrenders to keamy---no need to worry, we know he will be ok, he talks to sayid in 2005.

Sun---on freighter loaded with C4 with Aaron---no need to worry, she gets off the island.

This doesnt mean end of story by a long shot. It just ruins suspense of these moments since we know they will be ok.

161

Mike D
ID: 124271622
Sun, May 18, 2008, 17:33

Ok, since you asked for it, here some more convoluted thoughts. Go ahead and hammer me tree, I know I deserve it. ;)

I don't think we'll ever see the real Jacob. I'm basing it on my belief that Jacob is not a physical being, but a spiritual one. He inhabits the island, whatever the island IS, but does not inhabit a physical body. Rather, Jacob speaks through others (Others?): Christian, Claire, Walt, Abbadon, and other messengers.
How about the radical idea of Ben and Locke as being brothers. Ben and Locke maybe possible alternate versions of one another, with Ben stepping into Locke's shoes when Locke was deemed not ready; both would be driven to murder in name of the island. Then there's the already oft-mentioned issue of them both being born to women named Emily. Strange. But let's delve even further shall we?

Here's another theory, revisiting Jewish scripture, Buddhism, and the names. As potential Dalai Lama, which is what the item selection test was clearly directing us to consider IMHO, Ben and Locke (and Walt in the tests he was doing with Bea Klugh) were being evaluated as potential reincarnations of the Dalai Lama. We've been told that Jacob's name is important. Jacob/Israel is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel, one of whom is led by Benjamin. Sounds simple, but maybe not.

Locke was born before Ben, but they're competing for the same inheritance and are functioning, especially in this episode, as sibling rivals. Sounds more like Jacob/Esau to me, where Esau is the firstborn and seemingly rightful heir -- heir, successor, Dalai Lama. Esau is the hunter, and is a simple man, which in Hebrew has a more complementary meaning than it does in English. Ben is born next. Both want to be loved. But Ben more clearly wants power. In the Jacob/Esau rivalry, Jacob is the younger, more manipulative brother. Sound like Ben?

Flash to 2005 and onward. We don't know what Locke is up to, but Ben certainly seems back in control. Looks like, as with the original Jacob, he won his inheritance from his older brother. Widmore could be Esau, rather than Locke. Or perhaps both could be evoking an Esau idea, for the purpose of making us think about how Ben is trying to be Jacob.

Back in 2004, a hairy (Esau was hairy) Locke-type man in a rocking chair called to Locke, pleading "help me." Ben was freaked and tried to kill Locke.

Let's try this theory on for size: Jacob is a spirit and we will never see him in actual human form. But what we saw in that first appearance was supposed to be some version of Locke or Locke's spiritual father, stuck in time, and feeling frustrated at having been manipulated out of the proper destiny.

We all know destiny has played and will continue to play a huge part in the revelation of the rest of this show. How it plays out is anybody's guess.

162

Mike D
ID: 124271622
Sun, May 18, 2008, 17:49

Also, has anyone thought a lot about this?:

I believe the Oceanic 6 are strongly connected in a way that many may have forgot from season 1..... They all weren't meant to get on the 815 plane!
Jack - wasn't meant to get on because the problem with his dads coffin
Kate - didnt have a passport
Hurley - had a crash on the way to the airport and had to run and beg to get on the plane
Aaron - wasn't born
Sayid - was being questioned by security as they thought he was a terrorist thanks to Shannon who told them about his baggage being left just so she could get into VIP. (Just laughing thinking about that whole scene...)
Sun - was going to leave Jin and had a car already waiting for her outside the airport.

Strange how these six became the 06. Fate? Maybe? Destiny? Perhaps. Ben and Widmore's involvement? Highly doubtful. Just interesting to me.

163

Tree
ID: 5425189
Sun, May 18, 2008, 18:32

This doesnt mean the show is over but it does end any suspenseful moments of peril any of these characters are in for the time being.

how many times have we seen a character die, only to not see them die, on this show? i believe they are still very much in peril - and, again, you're seeing flash forwards. you're not seeing the end of the show.

considering the downward spiral Jack and Hurley hit when they get back to the main land, i think there is plenty of peril to go around.

As for Bens communication, even if he is the only one able to do that, he could send his message that way instead of sending a secret mirror message to Richard.

what? teleport himself to Richard? Ben is right now protecting John, who he believes is the new "chosen one" by Jacob. he ain't abandoning John.

Jack-appendix taken out--no need to worry we know he will be fine from appendictomy.

Sayid and Kate---attacked by hostiles.---no need to worry, we know they will be ok because we know they get off the island.

Ben---surrenders to keamy---no need to worry, we know he will be ok, he talks to sayid in 2005.

Sun---on freighter loaded with C4 with Aaron---no need to worry, she gets off the island.

in an isolated story, you're right, the suspense is minimal. but these aren't isolated stories - these are complex storylines where what affects one could have a butterfly affect on someone else.

in lesser series, i'd agree with you. but the complexities are much more than the singular "what will happen to kate and sayid?"

I believe the Oceanic 6 are strongly connected in a way that many may have forgot from season 1..... They all weren't meant to get on the 815 plane!
Jack - wasn't meant to get on because the problem with his dads coffin
Kate - didnt have a passport
Hurley - had a crash on the way to the airport and had to run and beg to get on the plane
Aaron - wasn't born
Sayid - was being questioned by security as they thought he was a terrorist thanks to Shannon who told them about his baggage being left just so she could get into VIP. (Just laughing thinking about that whole scene...)
Sun - was going to leave Jin and had a car already waiting for her outside the airport.

that's good stuff Mike. wow. i like.

164

Boxman
ID: 571114225
Sun, May 18, 2008, 19:23

Yeah, Mike D's find with the O6 and the reason for being on the plane is a bombshell. That's too coincidental even for Lost. That had to planned from the get go by the writers.

Does anyone envision the show catching up to 2008 somehow?

I was doing some chores and reran this episode on the DVR while working and I noticed that Hurley tried to start his new car with keys that had a rabbit's foot keychain. Didn't the keychain he used on the island to start the VW bus also have a rabbit's foot?

Is it coincidence or not that the Black Rock pirate ship had a bunch of dynamite on it too? Just like the freighter.

165

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, May 18, 2008, 21:05

how many times have we seen a character die, only to not see them die, on this show? i believe they are still very much in peril - and, again, you're seeing flash forwards. you're not seeing the end of the show.

Im not entirely sure what youre getting at. Have we seen someone die to not see them die? Weve seen plenty of people die, shannon, boone, ana lucia, libby, charlie, eko, tons of extras, arnst, paulo, nikki, goodwin, ethan, countless others, naomi, danielle, alex, carl. I can think of 1 was left for dead and didnt die and that is mikhail. Locke was left for dead but didnt die.

Jack, Sayid, Kate, Sun, Aaron and Hurley may be very much in peril. But not on the island at this time. That is my point. I am aware that seeing the flash forwards does not mean they are safe for good. But it does guarantee that as of right now on the island they will not die. We know jack wont die in surgery or bleed out from going to get Hurley because we know jack is one of the oceanic 6 and therefore cannot die. Therefore there is no suspense in Jack dying from his appendectomy or dying from bleeding out.

This is all im saying. In the short term we know jack as well as the other members of the oceanic 6 are not in mortal danger this season because we know they get home. Once they are home we know some of what happens. we also know they will probably come back to the island (some, if not all) that being said that has nothing to do with my point.

considering the downward spiral Jack and Hurley hit when they get back to the main land, i think there is plenty of peril to go around.

Just to reiterate, this is not what im talking about.

in an isolated story, you're right, the suspense is minimal. but these aren't isolated stories - these are complex storylines where what affects one could have a butterfly affect on someone else.

again this has nothing to do with what im saying. Sure, richard finding kate and sayid will present a ripple effect of the others involvement, how the oceanic 6 (at least 2 of them) meet up with the rest and on and on. If we did not know kate and sayid would be off the island we would be a lot more worried right now about kate and sayid. this is what im saying.

Mike, I like the idea, but out of all the original losties I would think you can make vague cases for all of them not being on the plane. Didnt they tell Locke that there was no handicap seat so they had to carry him on the plane?

Kate not having a passport I dont think qualifies as not supposed to be on the plane. She was arrested and taken on the plane. The writers made it a point to tell us Jack mustve been meant to be on the plane because not only was his half sister on that plane but he was a spinal surgeon and ben needed spinal surgery. The ticket taker at the airport actually tells Hurley he mustve been meant to get on this plane.

I cant see the writers seeing this far into the series. I wish they did. I wish this was all thought out prior to writing the whole show but it cant be. From what ive read they had no idea Ben would be a central character and we know the actor who played Eko wanted off the show and he was supposed to be a central character according to the producers.

166

angryCHAIR
ID: 561401810
Tue, May 20, 2008, 00:12

Lost is spectacular.

It seems that for a few seasons the X-files was a decent 2nd to Lost!

167

Tree
ID: 31429205
Tue, May 20, 2008, 06:39

Im not entirely sure what youre getting at. Have we seen someone die to not see them die? Weve seen plenty of people die, shannon, boone, ana lucia, libby, charlie, eko, tons of extras, arnst, paulo, nikki, goodwin, ethan, countless others, naomi, danielle, alex, carl. I can think of 1 was left for dead and didnt die and that is mikhail. Locke was left for dead but didnt die.

Mikhail, Locke, you already mentioned. Charlie was hung, and died. but he didn't die. that's what i'm remembering off the top of my head.

heck, we have NO CLUE what's up with Christian, or, for that matter, Claire. Dead? Alive? what is up with that???

I cant see the writers seeing this far into the series. I wish they did. I wish this was all thought out prior to writing the whole show but it cant be. From what ive read they had no idea Ben would be a central character and we know the actor who played Eko wanted off the show and he was supposed to be a central character according to the producers.

they have a definite ending in mind, and always have. Ben Linus was supposed to die off, but Michael Emerson was so amazing in his role, they kept him, and made him central. a different Other - my guess is that it was Tom - was supposed to have the role that Ben Linus does. the role was always there - just for another character.

i hadn't heard that about Eko, but i do know that Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, the actor who plays him, was arrested for DUI on Hawaii. along with the actors playing Ana-Lucia, Libby, and Jin, several of the Lost actors have had that happen, and so far, all but Jin, had their characters killed off.

168

tastethewaste
ID: 2452198
Tue, May 20, 2008, 11:10

Tree,

I dont think you get what im saying. Yes people have come close to dying or appeared dead for the moment, but this has nothing to do with Jack for example getting his appendix taken out. He may have been close to dying but we know at that moment he does not die. We know this because we know he gets off the island after his appendix is taken out.

I know they now have an end in mind, and I am sure it has been outlined since they know now exactly how many shows are left, but they have rewritten plenty on the show and my problem is that some things do not add up because of the rewrites. I could just be being nit picky about certain details but I just wanted this show to have a predetermined story from beginning to end. Of course this has been made impossible with Eko leaving. From what I read Eko didnt like a lot of what the writers were doing with his character and then either one or both his parents passed away so he wanted out of the show to go back to London. The writers granted this to him.

I am well aware of the DUIs.

Lost star asked to go home

6th article down.

169

MBT
ID: 184282015
Tue, May 20, 2008, 16:48

A theory that my wife came up with:

In the preview for next week's finale there's a scene when Frank says they are running out of gas in the helicopter. Sawyer's going to jump and sacrifice his life for Kate. Once again, just a theory but they always like to kill off somebody big in the finale and we know he doesn't get off the island.

170

boikin
ID: 532592112
Fri, May 23, 2008, 10:45

I kind of duobt that story line sense we know that kate is doing favors for sawyer in the future.

171

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, May 23, 2008, 10:58

I kind of duobt that story line sense we know that kate is doing favors for sawyer in the future.

we do????

172

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, May 23, 2008, 11:20

Nope. Only been insinuated so far.

Watched the previous weeks episode last night to make up for none on. Funny thing I thought similar things to that MBT. Must have been subliminal message from previously reading your post. :)

173

boikin
ID: 532592112
Fri, May 23, 2008, 11:55

What IF...the island DOES move physical locations, not just in time itself and moves to a colder climate?

this would probably explain why they find things from different places and times, like the large statue.

to me, the love story of Desmond and Penny, a tale of loss, betrayal, and a love across all time, is the "heart" of this show.

i totally agree with statement and if they killed of Desmond i think my likeing of the show would go way down.

Lost is spectacular.

It seems that for a few seasons the X-files was a decent 2nd to Lost!

Lost may go down atleast in my book as the best alltime tv show but on stand alone epidsodes the X-files had better shows. I think that is what makes this show interesting is that it does not have any stand alone episodes, minus maybe the epidsode where the kill off nikki and paulo, even in japan where tv series like this are more common they usually have stand alone episodes. I do worry that the show end up like X-files where at the end you look back and are like man they just have been just jerking me around for years now.

174

beastiemiked
ID: 402141714
Fri, May 23, 2008, 12:57

No way the kill Sawyer, most people favorite character. Desmond is pretty big key to the story so I don't he bites it. Jin on the other hand...

175

tastethewaste
ID: 514342313
Fri, May 23, 2008, 14:35

Nope. Only been insinuated so far.

Kate is definitely doing at least 1 favor for Sawyer, whether he is dead or alive is debateable. I would think hes alive just from the last line of the following scene.

Transcript:

JACK: I wanna know where you were. I wanna know who you were with.

KATE: It doesn't matter, Jack. Please.

JACK: No, tell me. Tell me!

KATE: (Sighs) I was doing something for him.

JACK: For who?

KATE: For Sawyer. I made him a promise. It... (sighs)

JACK: (sighs) What?

KATE: It doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with us.

JACK: Then why won't you tell me?

KATE: Because--because he wouldn't want me to.

JACK: But he's not here, is he? No. No, he made his choice. He chose to stay. I'm the one who came back. I'm the one who's here. I'm the one who saved you.

176

tastethewaste
ID: 514342313
Fri, May 23, 2008, 14:37

Lost is the best show I personally have ever seen, just ahead of Freaks and Geeks and Get a Life. I have heard great things about Battlestar Galactica (the new one) that it is better written and acted than Lost but I have never seen it. I guess that would be next on my list.

177

angryCHAIR
ID: 561401810
Fri, May 23, 2008, 22:59

My top Five of ALL time:

1. Northern Exsposure
2. Lost
3. X-Files
4. MASH
5. The Shield

178

beastiemiked
ID: 402141714
Sat, May 24, 2008, 12:12

Get a Life? That's seriously your 3rd favorite TV show of all time? It was pretty good back in the day but from what I recall, it had 2 seasons and the 2nd season was pure crap.

179

angryCHAIR
ID: 561401810
Sun, May 25, 2008, 18:51

Hey miked--simmer down!

X-files was on tv for 9 years. The first 4-5 were outstanding.

180

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Sun, May 25, 2008, 22:55

if you thought that 2nd season was pure crap you need to have your head checked!! That season was pure genius. I dont really know if its my 3rd favorite show of all time, but ive always loved it and felt really disappointed when it got cancelled.

Non comedies I would have to go with Quantum Leap and Northern Exposure after Lost.

181

C1-NRB
ID: 551212915
Mon, May 26, 2008, 00:51

The last 3 weeks have been torturous for me. I was unable to watch the show and kept seeing this thread pop up on the main forum page. I finally had a chance to catch up tonight.

Just a few thoughts about what's been said so far.

Who's to say the O6 get off the island this season? With three left to go, they could all finally get away next year. I'm sure someone can refute me and we'll know for sure Thursday night, but it could very well be another half-season away.

Lost makes my Top 5, easy.

/thread hijack
When it comes to lists like this, though, it's hard to define "All-time." My parameters will be, "In my lifetime, so far."

In alphabetical order:

Cheers (I know, I know... but it's my list; make your own list)
Lost
M*A*S*H
Twin Peaks (very Lost-like)
WKRP in Cincinnatti
/hijack off

182

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, May 29, 2008, 17:53

Monday's holiday has be completely thrown off...LOST TONIGHT!!! Woohoo!

Funny, I've been watching the season 1 disks this week. Great stuff still.

183

Tree
ID: 9452917
Thu, May 29, 2008, 21:58

ok. i've said fuuuuuuuuuuuuck about 3000 times already, and we're only halfway through the finale.

seriously, if this is not the best television show ever, then tv simply has never existed.

184

Tree
ID: 9452917
Thu, May 29, 2008, 22:47

yep. i cried.

185

Tree
ID: 9452917
Thu, May 29, 2008, 23:00

Jeremy Bentham, anyone?

186

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, May 30, 2008, 01:40

My F'n DirecTV locals all just died 15 minutes ago...during freaking LOST...MOTHER F'ERS!!!

187

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 06:18

188

Tree
ID: 17420305
Fri, May 30, 2008, 06:30

tree, did you get what I mean yet about less tension in certain situations. Sayid's fight with Keamy = no suspense. Jin, Desmond and Michael on freighter with C4 - not knowing what will happen to them = suspsense.

sorry, i disagree entirely. the entire show was tension-packed.

Sayid's fight with Keamy was bad ass. at no point did i think to myself "oh, whatever. we know Sayid's not dead. i think i'll go fix myself a scone."

instead, i was sitting there yelling for Sayid to f*ck him up.

Jin, Desmond, and Michael. that's an even worse example. we STILL don't know for sure what happened. how can you say there was no suspense!!?? there still *IS* suspense that i have to wait until January to find out about!

you're telling me there was no suspense as Locke was trying to keep Keamy alive so the bomb wouldn't blow? you're telling me there was no suspense as they were trying to find a way to diffuse the bomb?

that was there no suspense when Desmond was out cold? was there no suspense when Sun was screaming they had to turn back?

how on earth do you watch ANY television show week in and week out, or any major motion picture, when you KNOW the lead character(s) isn't likely to get killed????

189

chode
ID: 43411177
Fri, May 30, 2008, 07:56

Take your meds and re-read what he said.

190

MBT
ID: 35431308
Fri, May 30, 2008, 09:31

Re: 169

Glad to see my wife was at least partially correct!

191

MBT
ID: 35431308
Fri, May 30, 2008, 09:40

Hey Tree, why don't you tell the rest of the story about that picture? From everyone's favorite Wikipedia! Kind of a creepy story actually.

"As requested in his will, his body was preserved and stored in a wooden cabinet, termed his "Auto-icon". Originally kept by his disciple Dr. Southwood Smith, it was acquired by University College London in 1850. The Auto-icon is kept on public display at the end of the South Cloisters in the main building of the College. For the 100th and 150th anniversaries of the college, the Auto-icon was brought to the meeting of the College Council, where he was listed as "present but not voting". Tradition holds that if the council's vote on any motion is tied, the auto-icon always breaks the tie by voting in favour of the motion.

The Auto-icon has always had a wax head, as Bentham's head was badly damaged in the preservation process. The real head was displayed in the same case for many years, but became the target of repeated student pranks including being stolen on more than one occasion. It is now locked away securely."

192

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, May 30, 2008, 09:45

MBT - good call from your wife.

funny thing about Bentham - when i was a kid, i was really into a book series called The Book of Lists...

one of the lists was called something like "10 incredibly well preserved body parts". along with Anne Boylen's little finger and Napolean's penis. was Jeremy Bentham's body. so, i was familiar with Bentham, and his fate, well before this episode of Lost.

that being said, Bentham's story regarding his wax head, makes you wonder whether Locke really is in the coffin...

193

katietx
ID: 201411622
Fri, May 30, 2008, 10:07

Yeah, IS that really Locke and if so - why Jeremy Bentham? But then if he came back from the island to tell everyone they HAD to go back, he couldn't very well come back as John Locke who supposedly died with everyone else. sigh. That one went right over my head - but then a bunch of things on this show go over my head.

And when Sun confronted Whitmore she didn't appear pregnant anymore.

I agree with Tree...this is absolutely the best show on TV. I'm going to watch again tonite 'cuz I know I missed something.

194

tastethewaste
ID: 514342313
Fri, May 30, 2008, 10:54

tree, can you at least acknowledge your mistake in post 188?

Katie, sun wasnt pregnant when she confronted widmore. she had already given birth...im guessing probably 3 years prior.

195

boikin
ID: 532592112
Fri, May 30, 2008, 10:56

did anyone see the alternative endings?

196

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, May 30, 2008, 11:04

tree, can you at least acknowledge your mistake in post 188?

yes. i mis-read something you said.

doesn't change my belief that there was plenty of suspense and tension in the fight between Sayid and Keamy, and that knowing the characters are alive off island has no effect on any of the suspense.

did anyone see the alternative endings?

nope. but heard about them.

197

tastethewaste
ID: 514342313
Fri, May 30, 2008, 11:22

Excitement and suspense are not the same. Sure, I still watch the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas because it makes me smile and I still get excited watching it. but there is no suspense as I know the outcome, Tyson down in the 10th!

198

C1-NRB
ID: 551212915
Fri, May 30, 2008, 11:39

My F'n DirecTV locals all just died 15 minutes ago...during freaking LOST...

We had the same problem, only different. Our VCR (I know, I know...) went nuts and we only got the last 45 minutes. Trade ya' mine for yours. ; )

And when Sun confronted Whitmore she didn't appear pregnant anymore.

The phone call she took was from her Mom. Her mom put a little kid on the phone briefly; she already had the baby.

199

katietx
ID: 201411622
Fri, May 30, 2008, 12:19

Totally missed the one on Sun...thanks.

200

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, May 30, 2008, 12:27

a theory i'm working on. i'm not sure exactly what my conclusion is, but i believe that Charlotte Lewis, Emily Linus (Ben's mother), and Annie (Ben's friend on the island when he was a child) are all related or, the same person, just in different incarnations.

first of all - the literary link, which Lost seems fond of. Charlotte, Emily, and Anne were the names of the well known Bronte sisters, who between them wrote several well known novels.

second of all - the similarities in their looks. it's actually quite astounding.

Emily
Charlotte
Annie

nothing in this show is a coincidence.

201

boikin
ID: 532592112
Fri, May 30, 2008, 12:33

good investigation there tree, and we know that it is atleast hinted at that charlotte has been to the island before.

do we have any idea what happened to the people on the inflatable boat when the island disappeared. did they disappear with it?

202

tastethewaste
ID: 514342313
Fri, May 30, 2008, 13:01

Last we saw they watched the island disappear. We know they dont get back to the mainland since over the next 3-4 years there is no mention of more oceanic survivors returning. Gotta think Farraday is not dead, he seems too important a character. Maybe know he will re check his notebook and somehow call on desmond to help him out since he is his constant. His notebook says if anything goes wrong desmond hume will be my constant.

Nice catch tree on the sisters. I sometimes think the writers are just being pretentious when coming up with names for their characters (its not as if the french woman had philosopher Rousseau's name for any reason) but this theory really seems plausible.

Though wouldnt that mean Ben had a crush on his aunt?

203

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, May 30, 2008, 13:36

Thank you ABC...the epis are online already.

204

Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, May 30, 2008, 15:57

Last we saw they watched the island disappear. We know they dont get back to the mainland since over the next 3-4 years there is no mention of more oceanic survivors returning. Gotta think Farraday is not dead, he seems too important a character.

not exactly true.

at the very least, we know Faraday gets back to the mainland. we already saw him on the mainland, sobbing uncontrollably at the news report regarding the discovery of the crash site of Flight 815.

he KNEW the island was moving by how he was acting with Juliet. he knew he wouldn't be back on the island to pick her up.

(its not as if the french woman had philosopher Rousseau's name for any reason)

actually, i'm going to disagree with you here again.

Rousseau the philosopher had a belief that man was good when alone with only nature, but was corrupted by society. Rousseau the Lost character saw her friends all die/disappear, then, for more than 15 years, chose to live alone than live with the society she saw as corrupted (the Others).

i think her name, along with all the other names that have real life connections, are not accidents or instances of simply being clever.

205

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 17:39

at the very least, we know Faraday gets back to the mainland. we already saw him on the mainland, sobbing uncontrollably at the news report regarding the discovery of the crash site of Flight 815.

huh? i was under the assumption that report came out the same time michael saw the report, which is before the freighter.

206

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Fri, May 30, 2008, 19:07

I agree with ttw. Frank saw the bogus report too and disagreed because he saw the pilot. I think those flashforwards when we saw the scenes with the 5 from the freighter (Naomi, Frank, Miles, Charlotte and Daniel) were between the original crash and before the Oceanic 6 were rescued.

207

Tree
ID: 324393019
Fri, May 30, 2008, 20:47

i stand corrected. in fact, i knew Faraday on the mainland was prior to his time on the Kahana, but i confused myself.

i had it in my mind that he was kind of stuck in a groundhog day scenario, so i ended up just confusing myself.

208

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 21:36

Michael not happy with writers

I actually have to agree with Harold, its a bad stereotype that black men are not there for their children. In season 2 he would do anything for Walt, but this season he was selfish and didnt care. I also felt his character this season was a waste of time.

209

C1-NRB
ID: 551212915
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:19

I actually have to agree with Harold, its a bad stereotype that black men are not there for their children. In season 2 he would do anything for Walt, but this season he was selfish and didnt care.

They could've handled this better by having the Others- Tom, Richard, whoever- "convince" Michael by threatening Walt. I was never comfortable with why Walt wouldn't have anything to do with him once they got back.

I also felt his character this season was a waste of time.

I don't think so. Since Michael and Walt had left the island, someone had to be an example of the far-reaching power Ben and the Others have over, well, pretty much everything and everybody associated with the island. By sending Michael back the writers have shown that what Ben wants, Ben gets. It established the power and influence that he has over anyone that he's ever been in contact with no matter how far removed they become.

210

Tree
ID: 324393019
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:33

In season 2 he would do anything for Walt, but this season he was selfish and didnt care.

wait. what?

remember, it was Walt who wouldn't even see his own dad this season. and Michael was hardly selfish - he sacrificed his life for others!

211

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:36

well he wasnt that far removed, what had it been 2-3 weeks?

Michael was told he couldnt die, he had work to do. He was told by Ben he was to kill everyone on the boat, well everyone but the innocent people. This would work as some sort of redemption for killing Ana Lucia and Libby. Yet in the long run, Michael held out just long enough to not kill any freighter people and really only ended up killing more losties indirectly. He also indirectly aided the Oceanic 6 off the island to a life of pain and misery (with the exception of Kate and Aaron), the same oceanic 6 that allegedly the island wants back anyway. He also tried to kill himself about 6 times and finally got his wish leaving Walt parentless and never reconciling with the person he cared for the most.

So what exactly did Michael do to redeem himself?
We knew Michael was a good person who would do anything for his son. Now, he was just a person who wanted to die and was only thinking of himself.

212

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:40

yes tree, a 10 year old boy was upset that his father was a killer and was maybe scared for the time being. Trying to kill yourself is not the correct solution in that situation. It certainly isnt redeeming in any way.

He sacrificed his life for others because as he stated "I came here to die." Thats also hardly redeeming.

213

Tree
ID: 324393019
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:51

a theory i'm working on. i'm not sure exactly what my conclusion is, but i believe that Charlotte Lewis, Emily Linus (Ben's mother), and Annie (Ben's friend on the island when he was a child) are all related or, the same person, just in different incarnations.

following up on this theory, i'm now thinking that Annie - who's whereabout are unknown - died on the island, giving birth to Charlotte.

Charlotte left the island sometime thereafter - within the first two years of her life. i haven't figured out why, or how, but i think it's akin to why Aaron should not be going back to the island.

as a result of Charlotte leaving, Ben took Alex Rousseau, and made her his daughter.

214

tastethewaste
ID: 911431318
Fri, May 30, 2008, 22:59

you would think ben wouldnt have tried to kill her then, no? shouldnt ben know this?

215

Tree
ID: 324393019
Sat, May 31, 2008, 01:21

you would think ben wouldnt have tried to kill her then, no? shouldnt ben know this?

not necessarily. it's been 25 years.

216

Mike D
ID: 385341214
Thu, Jun 12, 2008, 16:03

Finally back from vacation. Here's a few thoughts:

The Lost season 4 finale was a bit like the preparation for a game of chess. All the pieces were placed on the board, the rules were agreed upon, but the opening gambit has yet to begin. There weren't nearly as many answers as you may think there were (unless you wanted to know more about time traveling bunnies). LOL Yes, we found out who's in the coffin, but think for a second about how season 3 and season 4 ended.

Season 3 left us with Jack needing to go back to the Island. Season 4 ended with…Jack needing to go back to the Island, with everyone else. While the story on the Island may have progressed, the story off the Island is still where we left it, just with some missing pieces filled in. The chess pieces were already on the board, season 4 just spent 14 episodes fidgeting with them, making sure every piece was perfectly in the center of the square.

I ask you to think about all the set-ups in the finale. Sun met with Charles Widmore, though it was just to set up the real meeting. Charlotte suddenly became interesting when Miles (in a scene proving Ken Leung was tragically underused as comic relief this season) let it slip that she is more connected to the Island than we first thought. Locke was installed as the new leader of the Others, Daniel and many 815ers were seemingly left on the Zodiac halfway between the sunken freighter and the vanished Island, Sawyer and Juliet were getting drunk, Sawyer pulled a Lost in Translation ending with Kate, and Jin was lost at sea after an explosion on a boat…just like at the end of the first season.

Where season 5 will begin, I have no idea. Will we follow the Oceanic 6 off the Island and the adventures of Locke and Sawyer on the Island? What would be the point of spending an entire season showing us the bad things Locke apparently described to Jack when we already know the outcome? Sadly, I suspect this is what we're in store for, and that in one year's time, the big final reveal in the season 5 finale will be the Oceanic 6 (and the corpse of John Locke) returning to the Island.

I’ve often said there’s nothing more useless than a Philosophy major (which is why I only have a minor). But when it comes to Lost, viewers who know their philosophers have a distinct advantage. In the opening scene of the finale, we learned that the man in the coffin was Jeremy Bentham. Though it took me about 15 minutes to make the connection, the Philosophy majors most likely identified that name immediately as belonging to the famous utilitarian philosopher.

The historic Jeremy Bentham was a proponent of the greater good, someone who believed the ends justified the means. Combine this love for ignoring individual liberties in favor of the bigger picture with the knowledge that the character was named directly after a famous philosopher and you quickly realize that if you only majored in Philosophy in college, you would have known long before that final scene that John Locke was in the coffin.

Sometimes the Lost writers and producers do something so clever that it makes me laugh, even if it’s not funny. Such was the case with the scene in the finale when Sayid murdered the man lurking outside Hurley’s asylum. Sayid asked the man what time it was, and his response was, “Eight fift…” He didn’t get to finish because of the bullet in his head, but we got it, and it was pretty clever.

Upon arriving at the real Orchid Station, John Locke takes one look at the Vault and asks if it’s the “magic box.” This is a nice and rather funny callback to Ben’s statement in the third season that the Island has a magic box that can produce whatever you want. Ben’s flat denial that the Vault is the magic box sort of implied (to me at least) that the magic box is actually real, in some way, shape or form. I know that the creators have stated the box is a metaphor, but I suspect there’s still more to the metaphor than just what we’ve seen.

While I wasn’t a huge fan of the episode, I do appreciate that the Lost writers don’t entirely look down on their audience. As soon as Ben said he was putting on a jacket because he was going some place cold, every diehard Lost fan immediately knew he was putting on the Edgar Halliwax parka he was wearing when he landed in the Sahara Desert in “The Shape of Things to Come.” Cutting his arm on the way down the stairs was a nice touch.

The show didn’t need to put in a flashback (or flash forward) to that episode to remind viewers what was happening, they respected us enough to figure it out. Also, this might have larger implications regarding the location of the island. We saw it vanish (or “move”), but to where? To answer that, let’s look at Ben’s time travel. The actions on the island take place around the end of December 2004. Then Ben pushed the donkey wheel, let out the glowing yellow light and caused what I will assume was something like a Casimir Effect. That jumped him to the Sahara Desert, where he learned the date was October 25, 2005. Ben time traveled nearly 10 months, so maybe the island did as well, which might help to explain why it vanished.

In Kate’s freaky dream sequence, she received a garbled phone call. Well, not garbled so much as a clear cut message. When played backwards, the message says, “The Island needs you. You have to go back before it’s too late.” This would seem to contradict what creepy dream Claire said about not wanting Aaron to go back. Given everything we’ve seen of Kate on the Island, the biggest question is why she’s important. She never really had any big connection to the Island, so it’s unclear what role she plays or what “too late” means.

Though the episode sadly didn’t feature an appearance by Adewale Akkinuoye-Agbaje (though it’s possible that was him playing Giant Walt), Mr. Eko was invoked, as Hurley decided to play a little chess with the deceased priest/drug kingpin. The mere fact that Mr. Eko was referenced isn’t particularly noteworthy, but it might be if you look at the entirety of season 4.
In the first episode of the season, Hurley ran into Ana Lucia’s partner after he was arrested.In the mid-season cliffhanger “Meet Kevin Johnson,” Michael had several run-ins with an imaginary Libby. Now the season ends with an Eko shout out. So not only did we get references to all three series regular Tailies, but they were referenced in the order of their deaths. Is this a coincidence, or something bigger? Does it possibly mean that next season we’ll hear about Nikki and Paulo or Boone and Shannon?

Ok, tree, et al...it's time for you to take my thoughts/theories apart. I know Season 4 was absolutely critical in order for us to know more of the future of this great show, but was Season 4 the best we've seen. I think not!

For all the hubbub it created, the interesting interaction between the pivotal role players and for its setup of science v fate; right v wrong; black v white; physics v reality, etc., I propose that Season 1 is still the highlight of any of the four seasons...thus far.

I can only hope that the Lost writers and producers end this amazing show with the finality and integrity it deserves and doesn't morph into some idiotic soap-opera ending that will leave us grasping at straws and throwing our newly paid for
plasma screens out of our 43rd story windows.

217

Fairplay
ID: 331163022
Tue, Dec 30, 2008, 23:55

I had to re-read this whole thread to catch up on what I may have missed in season four. I can't believe nobody commented on Mike D's last comments.

Personally, I loved season four and although I have no idea what is really meant by things such as "Casmir effect" and "wormholes", etc., I try my best to suspend disbelief just enough to be entertained.

Now, I do have two questions: 1) What is the point that Risk and Backgammon are mentioned so much? and 2) Why can't Ben, Widmore, Michael, Locke, Richard, etc. die?

Forum: gentPage 262Subject: Lost ---Season 4

Forum: gent
Page 262
Subject: Lost ---Season 4