Forum: hoop
Page 10697
Subject: 2004-05 Sartibles

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 16:04
I just loaded the sartibles with the new TSN prices. It's pretty easy to see how TSN priced everyone this year (aside from rookies). With very few exceptions, prices are proportionate to TSNP/G.

I did this fairly quickly, so let me know if you find any errors. I'll provide stats for preseason games once they start (Oct 10), but until then, points will be from last season.
 
1Logan47474
      ID: 508412712
      Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 16:58 		Thanks, Guru. I've been looking forward to this most valuable tool, and I'm grateful that you're providing it again this year.
 
2Dunkenstein
      Sustainer
      ID: 039541913
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 01:00 		Thanks, Guru. Are you going to input preseason stats into the Sartibles like you did last year?
 
3Mike D
      Sustainer
      ID: 041831612
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 07:31 		I'll provide stats for preseason games once they start (Oct 10), but until then, points will be from last season.
 
4Dunkenstein
      Sustainer
      ID: 039541913
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 13:27 		Oops.
 
5Pacers Rule
      ID: 55114748
      Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 14:54 		Cool, Guru. Can you believe we're a week away from training camp!
 
6Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 13:18 		The sartibles now have preseason stats. Ditto for the player pages and the Assimilator.

If you prefer to work with last season's stats (particularly the last 15 or 30 day splits), you can choose that as a separate game option. For now, both the Ultimate and Basic games have the same prices, so instead of duplicating the stats for the two game options, I simply set up one to have preseason stats, and the other to have last year's detail stats.

I'll also get the preseason points updated daily in the "yesterday's points" page, but I haven't got that set up yet.

Let me know if anything looks out of whack.
 
7Dunkenstein
      Sustainer
      ID: 039541913
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 14:19 		Thanks, Guru.
 
8MadDOG
      ID: 4092755
      Mon, Oct 11, 2004, 14:21 		Dwayne Wade with the nice 33.5 TSNP right out of the gate.
 
9Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:44 		Just a heads up, but appear to be some glitches in the sartibles. Players from the first day of preseason no longer have minutes and Sixers' stats seem way off. Might be more, but I just thought I'd let this be known.
 
10 Kevin Kills
      ID: 2759239
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 11:51 		SNP/G = Total SNP ? :)
 
11Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:04 		No, I think those are right. They're preseason stats.
 
12 Kevin Kills
      ID: 2759239
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:19 		Of course I know total SNP not= SNP/G. However, for example Larry Hughes has played 2 games, one 36SNP & another 21SNP, his total SNP is 57. Shouldn't his SNP/G be 28.5?
 
13Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:26 		It is...
 
14 Kevin Kills
      ID: 2759239
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:39 		Thanks!!

I was using 'point period = last 7 days'. Since the preseason is only 3-days old, last 7 days should be the same as full season. But it turns out otherwise.
 
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:52 		Either way should work. Obviously a glitch in there somewhere. Ditto for the lost minutes.

Should have those fixed shortly.

 
16MadDOG
      ID: 109411213
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 12:57 		Why do you have to kill Kevin? Is that right?

How would you like to be the person you're killing? What about their families?

Do unto others as you would like done unto yourself dude.

Just despicable.

I'm calling the cops.
 
17Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 13:01 		The 76er anomaly seems odd. I pulled the stats off of the ESPN boxscore this morning, since the NBA.com boxscore wasn't yet posted.

There are a lot of significant differences. This will require some more research.

 
18Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 13:05 		Think ESPN's off, unless someone can tell me how to get 40 steals in a game with 11 turnovers. :)
 
19 Kevin Kills
      ID: 2759239
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 13:05 		"Kevin Kills" not = "Kills Kevin"

Is "calling the cops = the cops calling" ?

:)
 
20Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 15:22 		I think everything is fixed now. Let me know if it's not.
 
21Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 15:28 		Sorry to be a spoilsport, but I think Nick Collison is getting TSNP for his personal fouls. :)
 
22Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 15:30 		Actually looks like a mixup between which player is which on the Sonics.
 
23WonderB
      Sustainer
      ID: 241053812
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 15:39 		ya. nick collison looks like he got the same numbers as allan. collison should have 14 snp
 
24Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 17:22 		[stupid computers...]

Perhaps now it is correct.
 
25C. Bird
      ID: 22346919
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 18:05 		Could someone review how the sartibles work? Thanks in advance
 
26Blooki
      ID: 50731320
      Wed, Oct 13, 2004, 22:22 		I'd be more than happy to volunteer to, but I don't really know what you're asking. What specifically do you want to know?
 
27Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 12:30 		I'll start.

There are two input sections. The one at the top of the page is pretty intuitive, I think. Select the option in each window, and click on go. The last option for "Column B" simply allows you to display PTS/game for a second time period. It also allows you to see minutes per game. If you choose that, the same time period is used as the regular point period.

During the preseason, you have two game options for TSN. The first shows preseason stats. The second shows stats as of the end of last season, but still uses this year's prices. Both the Ultimate and Basic games use the same prices for draft activity, so you don't need to discriminate based on that. After the regular season starts, the prices for the two games will move independently, and then you'll have separate options for the Basic and Ultimate games.

The menu box at the bottom of the page allows for a lot of additional filtering. Again, I think most of the options are intuitive. Try them out, as see if the results make sense to you. The last option box - Schedule Filter - is a bit more complex. Look at the three choices at the bottom of that box. The first offers traditional, historical stats. The second offers a projection capability. If you choose this, the PTS/game used in the primary point period will be multiplied by the number of games scheduled during the specified schedule period. The third option simply combines the actual historical points with the projected future points. It isn't used much, but at the beginning of the year, it can be useful as a way to project what the overall point rankings will look like a few days hence.

Here's a projection example. Suppose you want to use TSNP/game for the year to date (preseason), and project total points over the 14 days starting on November 2, showing average minutes per game in column B. Click here to see the resulting table, and scroll down to the bottom so see how it was set up.

Note that there are also some definitions just above the filter menu, which help to explain some of the output coding.

With that as background, if you have specific questions, I'm sure many of us can help provide answers.
 
28WonderB
      Sustainer
      ID: 241053812
      Wed, Oct 20, 2004, 16:29 		the charlotte boys prezec and gerald only have two games registered but have played three. their points are missing. in a quick check i see other teams players are correct up to yesterdays games.
 
29Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 20, 2004, 17:03 		I've got 'em now. Thanks.
 
30Blooki
      ID: 449292712
      Thu, Oct 28, 2004, 13:21 		Hi Guru,

I was wondering if you were aware that the previous season histories for some players (like Garnett and Duncan) seem to be missing all box score links for games beyond mid-November.
 
31Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 28, 2004, 15:41 		I am now. It's been fixed.
 
32Blooki
      ID: 449292712
      Thu, Oct 28, 2004, 15:52 		Thanks!
 
33deraynman
      ID: 36822250
      Thu, Oct 28, 2004, 22:18 		Is there any way to get guys like Brevin Knight or Eddie Griffin the sartibles without them being in the game? Knight is tearing it up.
 
34Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 28, 2004, 22:27 		For what purpose?
 
35deraynman
      ID: 36822250
      Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 00:38 		Good question Guru. I was thinking that a 25-30 TSN/game player shouldnt go unnoticed. I was hoping that if everyone knew there was a roster-worthy cheapie not in the game there might be a push to add him. It would probably not be worth it, just an idea.
 
36Blooki
      ID: 449292712
      Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 01:05 		I like how they're cheapies even though they don't have prices. And you can see their stats if you go to their player pages directly.
 
37MadDOG
      ID: 40105534
      Thu, Nov 04, 2004, 13:01 		Is the Minutes/Game messed up in the sortibles?


Looks like some guys have over 90 minutes per game.
 
38Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Nov 04, 2004, 15:06 		minutes/game are now corrected.
 
39Swish City
      Dude
      ID: 0931275
      Fri, Nov 26, 2004, 20:00 		Hmm, when i select Atlanta from the position selector at the bottom, and then run the sartibles, its showing Guards and Forwards instead of Atlanta players. It seems ok when using the top filter, and its just Atlanta as far as i can see. I tried with IE6 and Firefox and got the same thing.
 
40Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Nov 27, 2004, 15:01 		I think the "Atlanta" issue is now fixed.
 
41MadDOG
      ID: 41143108
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 09:53 		Guru, I was wondering if it would be possible to change the sortibles from a "plain text/proportional/monotype" font (there's alot of names for it) to a "web page" font.


The reason is that the choices for "plain text" fonts are very limited. And we are forced to use a serif font like "New Courier" Personally, I like to use Arial. It's the cleanest and easiest to read font. I noticed that when you click on a players name and go to their history that I am able to use Arial on that page. So it seems like this would be possible.

Or if you can't do this, could you just explain why some pages have the "plain text" fonts and some pages have the "web page" fonts.

Thanks.
 
42Winston
      ID: 119543011
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 10:18 		Guru, I always encounter the invalid reference error (i.e. #REF!) when I make any selection other than last change under the price change selection. Would you mind have a look when you have a moment? Or my problem is PC/browser specific?
 
43Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 12:22 		MadDOG[41] - the sartibles do not use a table format. Instead, they use fixed formatting, and therefore require the use of a fixed font (like courier). If you used arial or any other proportional font, the columns would not align properly.

When I originally programmed the sartibles, I did it this way to conserve bandwidth. My outgoing bandwidth was more limited, and a lot of users were still using dial-up connections, so making pages smaller was important. That's less of an issue now, but I'm reluctant to reprogram it now. If it ain't broke...


Winston[42] - I can't replicate that problem, nor can I imagine what would cause it. Can you supply a specific URL (including the complete query string) that produces this error for you?
 
44MadDOG
      ID: 41143108
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 12:29 		Well, I consider having to read a serif font somewhat broke...... but that's just me.

:)

Thanks Guru
 
45Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 14:08 		I believe that most browsers allow you to override the document-specified font. If you have a sans serif monospace font that you find more appealing, you should be able to use it. I tried a few, and frankly, I think the current font is superior.
 
46MadDOG
      ID: 41143108
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 14:14 		My sans serif monospace choices are,

Lucida Console
New Courier
MS Mincho
MS Gothic


I don't like any of them. I know there is some other sans serif monospace fonts out there. Does anybody know where I can find them on the internet? And how to get them into the right folder on my hard drive?
 
48MadDOG
      ID: 41143108
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 14:21 		If you were able to see the sortibles in Arial you would probably agree with me Mr GMoney.
 
58Winston
      ID: 119543011
      Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 18:01 		Guru, I refreshed the bookmark link for sortable from drop down menu here and the invalid reference error now gone. Thanks Guru.
 
59youngroman
      ID: 298482214
      Sat, Dec 11, 2004, 06:07 		Guru - I just figued that Travis Best (NJN) can't be found in the Sartibles for both TSN games.
 
60youngroman
      ID: 298482214
      Sat, Dec 11, 2004, 19:19 		Best is also missing on the "yesterdays TSNP"-page.
 
61Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Dec 11, 2004, 19:33 		Do you find Best listed in the TSN game? When I go the TSN site, I don't see him listed.
 
62youngroman
      ID: 298482214
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 05:24 		I am only playing Basic and he is listed there for a few weeks now (Travis Best)

I noticed him because the leader in the 500k league has him and he was not on my radar because he can't be found in the Sartibles. I think he did the better job and that is why he is 1st and I am only 7th.
 
63Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 07:45 		Must be a TSN glitch that they failed to list him in both games.
 
64deejay
      ID: 201021308
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 09:15 		T. Best is in the basic game, NOT in ultimate , how ridicilous
 
65MadDOG
      ID: 41143108
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 10:07 		Ridicilous?



Ha Ha, At least TSN knows how to spell.
 
66samuli
      ID: 81110311
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 10:25 		TSN being a part of Paul Allen's business imperium, I very much doubt "it" can spell worth damn... Not in any languages other than British, anyway. Can you?
 
67Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 12:52 		Turns out there is also one player in Ultimate but not Basic: Horace Grant.
 
68Logan47474
      Donor
      ID: 421021139
      Fri, Dec 17, 2004, 14:28 		Guru,

This is somewhat off-topic, but I'm having trouble finding the Guru Patron directory, and I'm pretty sure I saw one a while ago. Do you have a link to that thread?

Thanks,
Logan
 
69Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 17, 2004, 14:30 		Do you mean this? It's linked at the top of almost every page heading.
 
70Logan47474
      Donor
      ID: 421021139
      Fri, Dec 17, 2004, 15:13 		Thanks, Guru. I was actually looking for a post I thought I remembered seeing which had a lot of the contact information for GuruPatrons. Does such a thing exist?

Thanks again...
 
71J
      Leader
      ID: 049346417
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 18:16 		Hey Guru, it seems like whenever I'm in the sartibles and click on a players' page, then hit the back button...I get the "The page cannot be displayed" screen. Is there some kind of setting on my computer I need to mess with? Or is it something else?
 
72Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 18:31 		I dunno. It works OK for me.

You might try opening a new browser window for the player page. (right click on the link, and select that option) Then , when you want to go back, just close the player window.
 
73J
      Leader
      ID: 049346417
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 18:33 		yeah, it works normal for me on my computer at work, but my home computer is doing this. I guess I'll just open in a new window...but I keep forgetting to!!!! Then I have to start over with the filters :(
 
74Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 19:27 		Check your cache settings. If you use MSIE, go to Internet Options/General/Settings. If it is set to refresh "every visit to the page", try changing it to "Automatic". That might solve the problem.
 
75J
      Leader
      ID: 049346417
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 23:31 		its already on automatic :(
 
76Gmoney
      Donor
      ID: 5810561615
      Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 23:38 		Guru,

I get the same thing, and not all the time I may add at work and at home. I checked my settings on both and they are on "automatic" so it isn't just J. Basically if I do a sort that involves changing the amount from 99999 down to a specific amount( say 6000 but that doesn't matter). ABout half the time whe I click on a player and then click back I get a "cannot be displayed message" My next step is usually to "refresh" and the page appears but it always appears with the settings in "Basic" and my original search was "Ultimate"

I have just dealt with it but since J mentioned it I thought I would just share my experience also.
 
77joe suspect
      Leader
      ID: 35916821
      Thu, Dec 23, 2004, 00:09 		I don't know if this is related, but if I run the sortibles using the filters, the first time "http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/hstats.cgi" shows up as the new url. If I click "GO" again, then the url with the info that I chose as my filter is displayed as the new url.

so...workaround = change filter settings and click GO twice??

 
78Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 24, 2004, 07:31 		It probably is happening only when you use the filter settings at the bottom of the page. Those settings produce a "post" command URL, meaning that all of the selection data is contained in a hidden post string rather than being embedded in the URL. I did it that way because the URL string would otherwise be prohibitively long with all of the extra variables. When you use the filters, go forward to another page, and then hit the back button, your browser is evidently balking because of the post operation. However, I don't know why it works sometimes and not others (or for some people and not others).

I think this is one issue that you're just going to have to learn to adapt to. I've gotten into the habit of opening all player pages in a new window anyway, otherwise maybe it would happen to me on occasion as well. I'll never notice it because I never need to back page.
 
79Gmoney
      Donor
      ID: 5810561615
      Fri, Dec 24, 2004, 09:39 		Cool thanks - yes the "filter setting" is when it happens. Thanks for the suggestion and Merry Christmas.
 
80MadDOG
      ID: 15040116
      Sat, Jan 01, 2005, 18:25 		Guru, ever thought about adding a 5th week to the Sartibles schedule?

I use 1280 x 800 resolution or something like that and there is plenty of room for another week on the right side of the sartibles. There is at least an inch and half of blank space to the right of the sartibles.
 
81Tee Off
      ID: 91031810
      Tue, Feb 08, 2005, 14:40 		I totally support MadDOG's proposition.

Also, Guru, do you intend to add Basic Season 2 prices in Sartibles? Would be _great_ for all of us Gurupies not playing the ultimate game this year.
 
82Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 08, 2005, 16:01 		Season 2 prices are now offered as a separate game option in teh sartibles. The price change shows the current difference between the Season 2 draft prices and the current Season 1 prices.

I noted one position eligibility discrepancy. Jermaine O'Neal is currently listed only as a forward in Season 2. All other position eligibilities seem to agree with the other games. I imagine they'll fix Jermaine someday. But the sartibles show him as a FC already, since they presume that position eligibilities are identical.

The Assimilator does not yet have Season 2 prices. Once Season 1 concludes, Season 2 prices will take the place of Season 1 prices in that program.
 
83Tee Off
      ID: 91031810
      Tue, Feb 08, 2005, 16:51 		Thanks a bunch. What a great response time...
 
84gummitarzan
      ID: 30154280
      Thu, Mar 03, 2005, 16:42 		"Guru, ever thought about adding a 5th week to the Sartibles schedule?"

I'd also like the idea of a 5th (and why not 6th) week.