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Forum: hoop
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Subject: Gurupie 20 '06 Season Discussion II

Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 11:32

Previous Thread

Time for a new thread...

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 11:49

Gentlemen,

The commishes have been discussing some possible scenarios with the league in light of some recent developments.

One of them involve contraction of the league from 20 to 18 teams following this season. Before we can even consider this as an option, we'd have to have a plan for the dispursement draft of the two teams' players being contracted.

Guru, Tosh and myself have thrown out some ideas how we'd handle this, if in fact, we felt compelled to go this route. Some of them include:
A draft--PRE-KEEPER ANNOUNCEMENT--that teams would draft and have to be included as part of their six keepers; Paying a penalty for drafting these players that may include forfeiting a draft pick or using say their first round pick in order to draft this player; having a committee consisting of the commishs and the top three teams from the year before (who don't have a high pick in the draft) to assign how much each player should cost in the form of compensation for taking each player in the draft; To just throw all players in the SUPLEMENTAL DRAFT and then assigining a cost to draft one of these players deemed KEEPER WORTHY if one of them are drafted.

Again this is just one of the options we are considering. It's obvious that the FA wire seems too thin again. It got better the year the Bobcats came in, but this year seems worse than ever. Perhaps it's just a matter of bringing in better managers. Obviously, if we were to decide to do this (which we haven't done at this point), two teams would be eliminated. GL has already resigned his team at seasons' end as stated previously, so we'd have to also determine the other team not returning. We'd like thoughts and input on this topic and other ideas/suggestions to make the league better.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 11:52

I meant that we have brought in better managers and perhaps that is why the FA wire is even thinner than before. ;)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 12:34

Here's my general concept for a "contraction draft"

1. One round only
2. Held before the supplemental draft, and before keepers are declared.
3. The only players in the draftable pool are players from the contracted teams.
4. Draft would be in the same order as the first round of the supplemental draft (i.e, subject to the lottery)
5. Each player in the pool would have a "cost" assigned. The costs would be determined in advance of the draft, and would be determined by a small committee of league managers - either commissioners, or perhaps the top three teams from the prior year standings, or some combination. Costs would be in the form of forfeited draft picks in the current year and possibly subsequent years' drafts.

As an example, suppose that drafting any player who was deemed to be a top-20 caliber would have the following costs:
(a) forfeiture of 1st and 2nd round picks in the current year supplemental draft, plus
(b) forfeiture of 1st round picks in each of the next two years' supplemental drafts

Drafting a player in the next tier (say those ranked 21-50) would forfeit 1st and second rounders in the current year, and a first rounder in the next year.

Drafting a player ranked in the next tier (say 51-100) would forfeit the first two round picks in the current year only.

Drafting any other player would only forfeit a first round pick in the current year.

The costs could be further stratified, and strengthened or weakened, but that is the general framework. The minimum cost would be forfeiture of your current first round pick, so that no team could make a pick in both the contraction draft and the first round of the supplemental draft (unless that team already owns multiple picks in the first round of the supplemental draft).

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 13:16

Another possability would be to model it after the NFL's supplemental draft. Players are "bid" on with draft picks, if multiple managers bid the same amount, then the manager with the lowest place finish wins the bid.

Without doing more thinking, would even a top 20 player be worth 2 #1s and 2 #2s? You can only keep 6 players, so you would only have 4 draft spots and your last 2 players would be waiver wire claims. While the waiver wire would have more talent, I'm not sure that the move would be worth it. At the same time, the teams with top draft choices would have some tough decisions, do you give up that many draft picks for a proven player or hold onto the picks for a draft that is reportedly very deep and talented.

If this is going to be done, consideration also needs to given on how those teams are to be handled for the rest of this season. Normally teams in the bottom of the rankings might be inclined to trade a proven player for a top prospect or a player who was injured (Amare comes to mind for some reason)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 13:23

On the surface, I'd prefer a draft to an auction. I think the stronger teams would be more willing and able to sacrifice current and future draft picks for a marquis player, and I would rather use this as an opportunity to improve competitive balance.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 13:37

Frick, I agree, it would be very expensive. Let's use my team for instance. What would you give up, besides your 6th keeper being thrown back into the draft, and your first round pick it would take to draft him if he was in the supplemental draft anyhow?

Using my team for instance: What would you give up for Dirk? Hinrich? Chandler? Roy? etc. While as most would agree Dirk would be worth a very heavy price, others like say Roy might not be worth it to you. Maybe he's worth a little less? Or maybe you could take a chance that no one would pay for him and he'd go straight to the suplemental draft.

The lottery would go from 14 teams to 12 I am assuming. I like top 6 in the money as opposed to top 4 to be honest.

I think if they were all thrown back into the supplemental pool at least 10-12 of the players would go in the first round. If it were before the keepers due date with no penalty, I still believe ten players would go. But if it costs a first plus a greater penalty, depending on who the player is, it suddenly falls to maybe a half dozen players.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 15:07

I doubt if we've ever had a trade in this league where one top-tier stud was traded for nothing but draft picks. But suppose one was proposed. What would you think was a fair trade offer vs. someone like LeBron, or Dirk, or Marion, or KG?

If I had Dirk on my team, would I trade him away for 3 years of 1st rounders plus a current second rounder? I doubt it.

beastiemiked
ID: 1110451019
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 15:56

Are we running out of managers interested in the league? I really don't see the point of contraction.

Species
ID: 5259811
Fri, Dec 08, 2006, 18:23

Frick - got your trade offer (and 3-way at that! nice!) but had to decline it. I know I am short on 3's but feel my gross ineptitude there is at least partially due to guys like Bibby, J-Rich and Hughes having really bad starts due to injuries.

I made my move moving Biedrins for M. Miller and can't afford to move any other big men. Thanks though.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Dec 09, 2006, 09:35

Cotton Camby, dun dun, dun dun dun!

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 12:36

Looks like my honeymoon in the upper tier is over. I've lost 14.5 points in the last 4 days. :-(

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 13:34

The "Ray Allen Iverson Experience" is not going so well right now...

All I need to do now is pick up "Allan Ray" so I can make it the "Allan Ray Allen Iverson Experience".

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 13:49

bmd[8] - it (i.e., contraction) is just something that some of us thought should be put on the table.

Potential issues:
1. We already know that one team will be orphaned. If you look at that roster, it's not one that is likely to appeal to anyone who might consider joining the league.

2. There have been some managers for whom inactivity (failure to maintain an active lineup, failure to respond to trade offers, etc.) have been chronic problems. It is conceivable that one of them may decide to leave (or even be asked to leave).

Nothing is imminent at this point, but (CMIIW) I don't think people were clamoring to get into the league the last time that teams were available. Pair that with the issue that the F/A pool seems to be largely devoid of viable options, and perhaps contraction would address a couple of issues.

Admittedly, there are other ways to address the lack of viable free agents. But when some of these issues were recently brought up, I thought that contraction should at least be one option to put on the table.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 13:58

I will try and pick up my activity, I've been very busy lately :)

And I must be the only one who thinks there are some decent free agents to be found. I wish I could add a few more frankly.

Twarpy
ID: 4110219
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 18:16

I know Im not one to speak with my recent activity in this league not being the best, but why are we considering contraction in Basketball over Football, that league is in desperate need of contraction over this league.

I can understand the point if there are problems replacing managers that have teams which are such a work in progress that we would need to contract them, but as GO says when you look at the FA's in this league at least there are a few who are starters, as I've said before I think of the three leagues that Baseball has the best balance between keepers/owners, but I don't think we are that far off in this league.

I think there could be some more creative ways for giving teams with subpar teams easier ways to catch up via (lowering amount of keepers, lowering amount of roster spots, giving them an extra round of draft picks etc) IIRC we increased the number of games from 82 to 90 to promote managers to rotate players which everyone thought there were enough off F/A, so to contract seems like a major step backwards from those steps.

skinneej
Leader
ID: 040625911
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 18:39

RE: 11

I know what you mean Tosh. I have managed to hang out in the top 5 for most of the season, but this weekend really hurt me. I lost 9 pts in one day.

First JO has a iffy hammy, Marbury hurts his wrist, and SJax gets suspended for at least a game. Then Turky hurst his ankle and is out for 2 weeks, and Stackhouse has been gimpy for a week already. Add to it that Troy Murphy has not played up to par so far this season, so I am basically relying on Okafor, Prince and Walton. It may be a very long drop.

Perm Dude
ID: 2311481110
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 18:54

Fear not--someone is going to have to replace me when my drop starts. We can't all be going down!

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 19:16

Well I will be coming up when Gasol returns so that should work out nicely!

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 22:53

Contraction isn't set in stone, but an option we have discussed. If you have some ideas, let's hear them.

Games limit is 88. 90 was what most wanted but a majority did not want 92. I didn't want to repropose 90 after my 92 proposal was defeated. It was 82 as we forgot to ask the league what they wanted so rfs just set it to 82 for that year. We chagned it to 88 the following year.

I hope my team will do something when Roy and Diogu get back, but not holding my breath. Really need JWill to get back to 100%. Have not had one inquiry about any of the players I mentioned earlier. Had some in the past, but not recently. Too bad my team doesn't seem to match up with the teams who are super active.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 11:13

Can someone remind what the position eligibility standards are for the NBA.com game site? I'm just wondering if/when Al Jefferson might get center eligibility.

(BTW, I can't get the game site to respond at all right now.)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 11:16

Never mind - I found the answer to my question in the previous thread. A player needs to start 10 games at the new position.

Perm Dude
ID: 21145128
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 12:02

Ugh--terrible night. I was burning through some games earlier trying to find a good "fit" of players (meaning I was getting both the "good" and "bad" Bynum). But last night everyone was off. Should have just sat everyone to save the GP and tried it all later in the season.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 13:35

According to the website - 29% of the teams are starting Pau Gasol right now. Boy would I like to be playing against those guys!

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 12:11

Perm Dude and RSF announce a trade that will turn the league on its ear:

RSF send to Perm Dude:
Kurt Thomas

Perm Dude send to RSF:
DeShawn Stevenson

And the league will never be the same...

Perm Dude
ID: 41116159
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 13:12

Its like the Visigoths attacking the Roman Empire.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 13:15

In a similarly blockbuster trade block announcement, anyone who needs some 3's I'd like to move Anthony Parker and possibly Salim for someone who can get me some assists.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 41831612
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 14:58

Expect Steve Nash in return. Just a hunch.

Perm Dude
ID: 41116159
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 15:24

Or Steve Burns. I always get those two confused.

GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 15:38

Slowly but surely trying to climb out of the bottom spot.

11-30-06 32.5 points
12-7-06 33.5 points
12-14-06 44 points

Now just to keep it going and get players well.

Cliff

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 15:54

I'm certainly happy with the way things have been going, but kind of waiting for the bottom to drop out. Maybe they've started to: Wade out for a couple days, D. Lee no longer starting, R. Wallace bad ankle, R. Jefferson bad ankle, not to mention my first round draft pick (Bobby Simmons - bad pick) out for the year.

That said, I think bmd's got more to whine about than I do. He wouldn't have to avg. anything too incredible to catch me with his huge advantage on GP'd, but with Odom, Bosh, and the occasional Kobe DNP's, that hurts.

I wish there were about 3 weeks left in the season, but as it is, I'm sure 1st place will see someone other than either bmd or me at some point.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 16:02

The league is mine once the Ray Allen Iverson experience is back.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 18:34

I might be interested in seeking a 2 for 1 trade. Got a star injured or underperforming and need replacements? Solid guards like Mo Williams or Larry Hughes could be paired with another of my players for a better single player.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 15, 2006, 19:47

I might be interested in seeking a 2 for 1 trade

I've been trying to do the same thing brother. Maybe you and I should do a 2-1 and 1-2. Not a 3-3, either.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Dec 18, 2006, 11:54

Anyone that has halfway decent stats are being hoarded like gold. Everytime I ask for anyone of any value, they want Dirk. In fact, when I told one guy that I'd give him Dirk,he told me that he wouldn't give me anyone of value, but I could take my pick from his leftovers. LOL

While there will be players from time to time on the WW that can improve a team marginally, it has been extremely difficult to find a trade partner--even when the needs/excesses match up. Short of another alternative, I gotta admit that I'm leaning toward the contraction idea. We could also use this time to evaluate all managers' activity more strictly.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Dec 18, 2006, 12:10

That was me and I said don't have interest in moving these 3 guys... "and I'm pretty sure the leftovers don't add up to Dirk". I didn't offer you them. Read a little slower.

beastiemiked
ID: 1110451019
Mon, Dec 18, 2006, 21:21

Wait, so nobody wants Dirk so you want to contract? I don't think a hoops season would be the same without you ranting about the lack of value people are offering for Dirk.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Mon, Dec 18, 2006, 22:36

He could trade Dirk and solve that problem quickly. ;)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Dec 19, 2006, 00:06

bmd, last I knew my vote counted as just one vote. FYI, I am not the one who proposed it be contracted. I simply said as of now, I would vote for it.

You think I WANT to trade Dirk? Certainly not going to give away my top player. I am sorry you are so offended by my supposed "ranting" about my team and Dirk. Maybe I should be like many other managers and just keep my thoughts to myself.

You think there is some correlation about Dirk and contraction? Yeah, that's it. You got it.

I dunno, but no one has spoken out against it thus far except you. Doesn't mean that everyone is for contraction and I'd certainly like to hear other alternatives as I've said more than once.

Peter N.
ID: 581018320
Tue, Dec 19, 2006, 00:53

bmd, you are way out of line on ref with that comment. I know first hand that ref really likes dirk, but for you to insinuate that that is a reason why he'd be in favor of contraction is ridiculous. You know better than that my friend.

beastiemiked
ID: 1110451019
Tue, Dec 19, 2006, 08:18

Before I get off on a negative tangent, I know Ref and fellow commishes of this league and other Gurupie leagues do a lot of behind the scene work and for that I'm extremely grateful.

I dunno, but no one has spoken out against it thus far except you. Doesn't mean that everyone is for contraction and I'd certainly like to hear other alternatives as I've said more than once.

Who has spoken for it? Yeah, it's been discussed but no one has said "Yes, contracting is a great idea." Obviously, if we can't find reliable and active manager(s) to fill the empty team(s) than it's certainly an option. However, it's only December so I doubt there are too many people popping there heads in this thread looking to get on the waiting list(if you are out there please speak up).

You think I WANT to trade Dirk? Certainly not going to give away my top player. I am sorry you are so offended by my supposed "ranting" about my team and Dirk. Maybe I should be like many other managers and just keep my thoughts to myself.

You've been complaing about Dirk since the inaugural year of this league. Of course you don't want to give him away for free but for as much as you don't want to trade Dirk you sure do a lot of shopping with him. I'd love to have Dirk but I know we would never come to a deal that we'd both like. Mainly because we are both stingy traders.

Also, which team is leaving? GL's? If so, he's got a decent young squad and I'm more then sure we'll find somebody ready to take them on next year.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Dec 19, 2006, 11:29

bmd, this is the 5th year of our league. In our 3rd year, Dirk was hurt and Twarpy was trying to get him from me. We almost had a deal, but we ended up backing out. I never even considered moving him before then. Last year several people approached me for Dirk which got me thinking I could improve my team perhaps with enough people. However, it was generally, hey what do you want for Dirk besides these three players? This year it has been about the same though I have asked a couple people what he'd be worth to them but only after they had asked be about him originally. Hell GO had been after him since the day he got into the league.

I am NOT shopping Dirk. I do not WANT to trade Dirk. I would have to be knocked over to move him. How is that bmd? Glad you know so much more about my team and what I am trying to do than I do.

The thing I comment on and I find FUNNY, not UPSET with, is that Dirk is one of the top players in the league, yet people come to me wanting him yet have a list of players they won't part with to get him. How do you expect to get a top player w/o giving up a top player or players in return? If that means I am shopping him since year one in your mind, then so be it. If that means I am a stingy trader, then so be it.

As far as Guru's contraction proposal, we agree that it is early, but it is the ONLY idea thus far thrown out there on how to make things better. Since your team is so good from 1-6 or how many studs you have, of course you don't want to make any changes. Maybe you can help us be part of the solution instead of making exagerations and allegations toward one of the people trying to do just that.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Dec 21, 2006, 11:35

I am having thw worst luck with picking guys to play or not. Last night for the first time all season I sat Dampier. My FTP needed a boost and I wanted to get Johnson in the lineup as he is excelling at steals--one cat I need badly. Dampier has done well all year in FGP, Oreb, Reb and blks, but I'm doing well in those cats. Of course the night I sit him, Dirk gets injured in the first qtr and Dampier goes nuts with this line:
FG% FT% Pts 0Reb Reb Ast Stl Blk 3PM
.636 .889 22 9 16 0 0 1 0

Meanwhile, Johnson gets in early foul trouble and only plays 13 mins and end up with this line:

0.750 1.000 9 2 4 0 0 0 0

I have been really poor at managing my active and bench lineup this year. The one day I had JWill on the bench he went off for 14 assists. I've benched Rasual the day he went off. I've had both Hinrich and Ridnour on my bench (not by choice) for days they went off and in my lineup for days they basically didn't show up.

Being in 6th place as of now is about where I wanted to be at some point this year. No matter what I'm not strong enough to finish in the top few. My team has been banged up but last night I finally got Roy back for the first time since week 1 and Diogu is back too. Dirk's injury will hurt, but I'm definitely headed in the right direction. People talk about how hard it is to find assists, but those are easy compared to finding steals it seems--esp. when that stat can be so inconsistent. Guess I'll have to address that in next year's draft when I should finally be strong enough to compete for the title.

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 08:45

Well, at least with having 4 players on the IR I don't have to worry about poor managerial decisions.

As these guys start to get healthy and you are interested, let me know. I might even be talked into accepting a player injured for the year if they would be a solid keeper.

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 09:10

How do you expect to get a top player w/o giving up a top player or players in return?

Yeah, well I guess you don't consider Kevin Garnett a top player then, cause you know thats what my initial offers started with AND I was offering add ons of young guys like Gomes.

Then I would sit back and say why in the world am I the one adding on a bunch of stuff to seal the deal - this is Kevin Freaking Garnett. And its not like the age was a question, Dirk is only 2 years younger.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 10:28

GO, I didn't say you made a bad offer, I just like Dirk better than KG. And again, I'd need to be knocked over to move him.

Perm Dude
ID: 101140228
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 10:31

When a manager is in love with a player, it would take an unfair offer to move him. I think that's the case here.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:03

PD, I agree with that statement whole-heartedly. We all tend to overvalue our own players. Afterall we do follow those players and their stats daily and don't nec. know or follow the stats of other teams' players.

However, with my particular team, I can't afford to move a big gun w/o a couple big players who can fill the statsheet. We all value players differently and I personally like Dirk better than KG (as does GO). Also, if I'm going to trade, I'd likely want a player to help me in the cats I need. I sometimes don't mind overpaying for a player if I can afford what I'm giving up to get a player whose cats I particularly (desperately) need.

I didn't want to trade ARod in baseball, but got an offer I thought I couldn't pass up. I am sure Guru wasn't shopping Arenas a couple weeks ago when he got an offer he couldn't refuse. GO is good like that. He sees a player or players he wants and he generally figures out a way to get the guy. Sometimes he overpays but it's worth it to him as he can build the team around the core. Some people won't trade unless in their mind they are getting the better deal, but most in our leagues are fair. It's just very difficult in this league to go out and find the perfect trade partner AND make it work. Baseball is our easiest league to make moves. Still there are a lot of people who are great at crafting trades and making them work. I could rattle off about half the league.

There are several players that could help me right now but I can't even figure out a decent offer to make them to even have a chance of them accepting it. But I tend to make a lot of trades, so I'll figure something out--just no where close to the trade studs like RSF, Mike D, GO, Species, etc. Dialogue leads to the most trades. In baseball, if I find someone whose needs/extras mesh and we talk, something gets done. In football I was at or among the league trade leaders. So even though I can be guilty of overvaluing my own players (or undervaluing my opponents), I'm usually unbiased (or desperate) enough to figure out a win-win deal. Most of our managers in are leagues are the same way.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:05

Righto. And give Ref credit for making that clear. (lol)

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:14

For kicks I just checked the trades made. GO and I tied for the most trades made in G24 football with 5 each. In G20 baseball, I made 7 player trades plus numerous trades for draft picks on top of that.

In Mike D's leagues there is a separate category for Trades Made LOL! I had a bad draft in that league, but made up with it on the FA Market and went from worst to first! Still no trades yet though GO's trying his best to change that!!!

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:16

Any thoughts as to why its easier in baseball? I agree it seems like I got the most done there. Though thinking back, I believe I completely flipped my entire rosters in baseball, hoops and football all in less than a full season each.

So thats pretty good, right?! lol...

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:40

I hate to say it----but I've said it before, so what the heck. I think 6 keepers is to few, and it makes trading more difficult. Why? Because almost every team thinks they have 6 good keepers. Stretch that out to say 8----and teams may realize they need help and make more deals.

I couldn't possibly keep all the guys I wanted to keep last year. I had to let Jarret Jack go, KNOWING he'd be the starting point guard in Portland. I made the lopsided Amare trade in order to move other guys I couldn't keep, including Mike Miller, Battier, and Sean May! This year? I'd like to keep just about every guy on my roster.........except maybe 1 or 2. But who wants to deal? Practically no one. Becaause they only have 6 slots, and like their own guys a lot.

I know this league had more than 6 before I was involved, and switched it. And it may not work the way I'm suggesting if it changed. But it's all I can think of right now.

Other than a mandatory trading rule (TM category).

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:41

Sheesh, I moved Rashard Lewis too. So there.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:45

In baseball we keep 9 of 23 roster spots. There are like what a 25 man roster but many guys are claled up during the season. There are what 30 teams and we have a 20 team league. There are a lot of free agents who are available daily that can help us and that is evidenced by the high number of FA pickups. There are many slots to use.

In hoops, we keep 6 of 12 players We have 20 teams and the league has 30. However, generally only 8 or 9 players play per game and of those probably only 6 or maybe 7 contribute. Some teams have a lot less than that. The FA list that can help is short and generally is used for injuries or guys that all of a sudden get an increase in PT. There are only three slots in hoops, G, F, C. Basically, there are more players that help us in baseball than there are in basketball.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:55

That's some mind-boggling stuff. My head hurts.

Perm Dude
ID: 101140228
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 11:57

Do a trade. That'll clear your head.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 12:01

Give Mike D a baseball franchise - that will help. I've got a lot to offer in that league, Mike! ;-)

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 12:08

Noooooo. I went cold-turkey from baseball. I've been clean for 3 years now.

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 12:15

I think this is my third year in this league (?). At any rate, I don't have any guys from the team I originally inherited. Not nearly as prolific as the guys above, I realize, but...

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 14:22

I've had my team for about 3 months and I'm down to 2 of the originals. I'm planning on shopping both of them this year, so I doubt that I have anyone on my team that I started with by the end of the year.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 16:11

Man. I still have Ray Allen from my original draft team...although he has been threatened to "shape up or ship out" to Tosh's team twice so far.

If deal happen, they happen. And when I make them, I know its a good one when Species says I got screwed. Its a good barometer.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Dec 22, 2006, 16:15

My team still has an "Allen" jersey hanging in the office. I'm just waiting to make the official announcement, and to put it on him.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 08:48

I can't log in to the NBA.com game site this morning. I assume it's not just me?

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 08:50

I tried and couldn't get in.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 09:23

Just got in now. Standings aren't updated, however.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Dec 30, 2006, 13:56

And now presenting...the NOK Refs!

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, Dec 30, 2006, 16:15

I've been punching a few numbers. I'm not sure if this is an argument for contraction or not, but I figured I would throw it out there.

In MLB - I'm assuming there are 16 viable fantasy players (9 hitters, 5 starters, 1 closer, 1 MR) per MLB team. That makes 480 viable players (16 x 30 teams) for our needs (and accounting for injury subs, maybe as many as 500 players)

G20 baseball - 20 teams x 23 players/roster = 460 rostered players

That means there are still 20-40 viable fantasy players available on the free agent list.

In NBA - Assuming 7 viable fantasy players per team, there are 210 (7 x 30 teams) players we would like to have on our rosters.

G20 Hoops - 20 teams x 12 players/roster = 240 rostered players.

That means that there are 30 non-viable fantasy players already on G20 rosters, and nobody of real value on the free agent list.

---
If we contract to G18 Hoops, that makes 216 rostered players (18 x 12). That's still more rostered players than viable fantasy players ... but it makes it a lot closer.

I'm sure there are disagreements on some of my assumptions, but I think it is a reasonable base from where we can discuss the future.

beastiemiked
ID: 31182618
Sat, Dec 30, 2006, 20:16

There are definitely more than 7 viable players per NBA team. I've gotten a few decent options from FA and I really don't even check my team or the wire too often.

Instead of contracting why don't we just lower the GP limits.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Dec 30, 2006, 22:13

Reminds me----the Nba.com GP limit thing doesn't help me much......I like the way Yahoo tells you how you compare to the pace. And I have no trouble filling my roster. Wish I could grab more FAs.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Dec 30, 2006, 23:51

I agree with Mike D. The NBA.com game limits blows. Need the projections like Yahoo!. I don't think they're ever going to get the jump analysis or projected standings working.

BMD, actually, we'd have to increase game limits instead of lowering them. Otherwise it makes it worse. If we raised it, then managers can take more chances and be more active to try and find guys that will work for them. The proposal to raise it from 88 to 92 was narrowly defeated. A few that voted no said they would have voted yes for 90 but going from 88 to 92 felt like too much of a jump.

There seems to be more injuries in the NBA and that opens up short-term viable options in the NBA and that's why there are some FAs in Hoops. Also, with only 12 roster spots, youngsters that want to be kept but aren't prodcuing now cause a logjam in team's lineups and allow a player or two to live on the FA list.

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sun, Dec 31, 2006, 00:04

They finally removed the 'jump analysis' link a couple weeks ago. It's as if it never happened. I wrote another email last week asking about the 'projected standings' but haven't gotten a response.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Dec 31, 2006, 09:44

I am very disappointed with the nba.com site. It is so rudimentary in so many ways. I can't search this years year to date averages for instnce as it defaults back to last years'. Many times/week I can't even get in (like right now). And even though they finally got around to fixing some of the obvious (like a slot for 3s) why did it take so long. Combine that with the other junk and unless there is a big fix THIS year, I want no part of it moving forward. Sure, I really like the commish controls it gives us, but at what cost? Guess we shall see.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sun, Dec 31, 2006, 10:27

I use Yahoo's watch list all the time......and I miss that at nba.com. Not piling on, just throwing it in.

Perm Dude
ID: 4903448
Thu, Jan 04, 2007, 10:03

Tosh with a nice night last night!

And Species' "King for a Day" strategy appears to be paying off.

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sat, Jan 06, 2007, 12:00

I was +8 last night. What the heck happened there lol...

Anyone want Bynum? Looking for a PG.

Perm Dude
ID: 15014811
Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 00:50

GO, I was just thinking about making an offer to get him back. But I need assists like there's no tomorrow.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 10:04

Figured I'd throw an idea out for discussion.

I know there have occasionally been suggestions that the number of keepers should be changed. Interestingly, some would like to see the number reduced, while others would favor an expansion in the number of keepers.

I assume that the rationale for reducing the number of keepers is to improve competitive balance from year to year by increasing the quality of the supplemental draft. However, those who oppose it argue that players taken in the early picks of the supplemental draft often take a few years to develop, and by reducing the number of keepers, teams picking those players are disadvantaged by having to choose between keeping a currently productive player or a more speculative prospect.

Teams with good roster depth often try to swap two keeper-quality players for one, and these trades can make sense for weaker team that is trying to build roster depth. But by limiting the number of keepers, this type of trade is often difficult to do, since adding quality players has limited long-term benefits.

What I've been mulling over is something like this: Team finishing out of the top 6 (i.e., teams in the lottery pool) should have the option to keep more than 6 players. For example, perhaps teams finishing 7-13 should be allowed to keep 7, and teams finishing in the bottom 7 should be allowed to keep 8. If a team opts to keep a 7th player, then that team essetially forfeits one of its supplemental picks (and probably not the first round pick, either). If a team opts to keep 8, if forfeits two picks.

Forfeited picks should probably come from the back end of the draft (i.e., once your roster has 12 players, you no longer draft. Unusable picks could still be traded, though.) This would certainly help the weaker teams build strength without needing to own studs. It would also allow weaker teams more flexibility in warehousing a developing player without necessarily having to drop a keeper-quality producer.

If every lottery team opted to keep its extra allotment (and I assume they would, under normal circumstances), then 20 players would be removed from the supplemental draft pool. Alternatively, the number of keepers could be reduced by one across-the-board, so that the top 6 teams would keep 5, with lottery teams able to keep 6 or 7. This would keep the supplemental draft pool at the same size as before - if that's a desirable goal.

Thoughts?

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 12:49

GL came to me yesterday with a dilemma. He wanted to know where the league was on contraction. I said it is simply being discussed but no timetable or alternatives had been broached. He said that he is in an awkward position as he is getting offers that would improve his team for the future but didn't want to do those if his team was being contracted for the good of the league.

I shared this with Tosh and Guru and they agree that we have to proceed as if there are going to be 20 teams next year and he should treat it as such. If we decide to contract, there are ways we can deal with the draft picks from contracted teams, etc. I'm still hopeful there will be other ideas from the league.

I will go on record again asserting that it would help the league to increase game limits slightly. It is currently at 88. I think it should be 92, but even 90 would help a smidge. Reason being, all teams should compete with their entire team and not their best 8 or 9 players. Don't want too many games because of injuries, etc. but as far as the youngsters that don't get a lot of time right now--well that should be a part of your overall strategy. 7 pts and 5 rebs is still a positive contribution--esp. later in the year. In fact, later in the year those youngsters will get even more time from non-contending teams.

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 22:08

Guru, that idea kills the teams in the top 6. If I'm in 8th with a couple of days left there's no way I'm going to efficiently rotate my roster to get 6th and one less keeper. I'm adamently against the idea.

I actually don't see the problem with parity in our league. The teams at the bottom are young and will be good in years to come.

I will go on record again asserting that it would help the league to increase game limits slightly. It is currently at 88. I think it should be 92, but even 90 would help a smidge. Reason being, all teams should compete with their entire team and not their best 8 or 9 players. Don't want too many games because of injuries, etc. but as far as the youngsters that don't get a lot of time right now--well that should be a part of your overall strategy. 7 pts and 5 rebs is still a positive contribution--esp. later in the year. In fact, later in the year those youngsters will get even more time from non-contending teams.

We already play 75% of our team(8 roster spots plus the extra games that essentially is another starting roster spot). We already have very little wiggle room. If anything we need to lower it back down to 82.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 12:30

The whole idea behind these deep leagues were to force managers to use their entire bench and use players they wouldn't normally even consider.

We have 12 spots in this league. In baseball and football we basically use every player on a given day--whether it is with bye weeks in football or off days/pitcher rotations in baseball. In hoops, they don't all play on the same day. There is a rotation that we knew would take place. Hence the GPs should be higher. Still, we kept the bench short so we wouldn't be stashing a bunch of players.

Here is the thing. The one year we played with 82, rfs even admitted that we made a huge mistake but we didn't change the default. AP10 left right after the year started and rarely returned. He didn't even change his lineup! Yet he wins the league. He was lucky he didn't have injury issues but he set his lineup and took off. We wanted to remove him but in the end we felt it was tough to remove a defending champion. Then we get screwed by not removing him. Def. don't want to go through anything similar to that.

We want active managers. Whether it is by rotating or what have you. But the idea was and is to use strategy why using your entire team (or at least more than 8 or 9 players).

Currently we have an 88 GPs limit. With our 8 active slots that comes out to about 8.5 players. That's still 3.5 players we can't even use! If we go to 92, then it almost gets us 9 active players. That's still leaves us three players we can't use.

Since we can bench players at any time, despite how many active spots are on our team, we could literally have 12 active spots and still be able to bench half our team on a given day and leave empty spots. Now I'm not suggesting we have 12 actives. There are injuries and DNPs that would make it difficult to get our GPS up to hit the max even with some rotation off the FA list.

Perhaps it might be smarter to add more active spots? Point is that if we want to help with parity than going down to the top 8 players HURTS that. You can simply put your top players in your lineup and leave it alone. Those players at the end of your bench are the difference. Those are the ones that teams at the bottom of the league can use to propel them up and generally speaking they are better than the top teams' #10-12 guys.

I wouldn't mind going down to 82 GP limit if we went to an active lineup like 3Gs 3Fs 2Cs and 2Util or something similar. Again you could still have as many bench players as you need. Problem with that migh be geting enough Cs so perhaps keeping it at 1C and adding a Util might be better.

All I'm saying is that we have more frustrations with this league than any other. It's weird because on one hand we've had a different winner each year in this league, yet for the most part the bottom teams stay at the bottom and the top teams stay at the top. It'd be best to have some parity so the best/luckiest managers move up and the lower teams build up. It's still possible for a manager to remain at the top for several years or at the bottom for several years but IMM that is more based on the manager's ability/research/luck than the inability to do so because of the constraints of the league.

To summerize, my idea is the same as it was when we created it. To let the best TEAM win, not the best STARTERS.

I agree with BMD that with Guru's proposal as currently laid out it could lead to some sandbagging, but we are all trying to make the league better.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 12:52

A few comments on various issues:

1. An average "viable" NBA player plays about 74-75 games per year. Some teams have better success, some worse. But our current 88 game limit already effectively requires, on average, about 9.5 players. It would only use up 8.5 players if every one played 82 games.

There may be a viable rationale for increasing games played, but we're not moving to 9.5 players, since I think we're already there.

2. "for the most part the bottom teams stay at the bottom and the top teams stay at the top."

That's the issue my proposal is trying to address. Perhaps there's a more gradual way to phase in the keeper limits to avoid the incentive to sandbag - but I suggested the top 6 since that's already the cutoff for the prize pool, and also the cutoff for the draft lottery.

Maybe the ability to keep an extra player (or two) should only apply to teams nearer the bottom. Regardless of the cutoff point, though, I think that something on these lines is one way to help bring about greater parity over time. And I think it's desirable to look for ways that might reduce the period over which greater parity can be realized.

I know the league history is limited, but I'd be curious to see the extent to which the same teams finish near the top and bottom.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 13:06

Even if we use say 74 games instead of 82, that still only would get us to 9. You don't see NBA teams only using their starters plus one guy off the bench. Of course they don't use all 12 and enither should we. But they also have 10 more teams than we do.

Just think that the "depressed" limits hurt our FA pick-ups and ability to use them. I think the more open we are the more ability we'd have to trade as well as those deeper players are even more valuable and won't have to just sit on our bench. For instance, I am so far over the limits that I'm not having to bench some keepers. Being forced to play the players to help me in certain areas even though the better overall players will be on my bench. But that's my fault for not pacing myself.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 13:30

There are ways to address obvious sandbagging as well.

For example, teams that fall significantly under the GP limit will have their draft position for the next season pushed back by some degree. To illustrate, if a team falls more than 25 games short of the limit, then that team's draft position is pushed back one slot. Greater underages would yield greater pushbacks.

I know this could be defeated by bulking up on games from otherwise unusuable players, but if those situations were blatant enough, the commish could disallow those GP in the sandbag determination.

This might also help address Ref's concern about inactive managers. A team which fell well short of the target would not be rewarded with a fruits of a low finish in the next draft.

If a team is able to sandbag more surreptitiously, then more power to 'em.

Perm Dude
ID: 490491010
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 13:34

With the lottery already in-place, the chance of sandbagging is already there--I don't think it will be significantly increased, particularly if the additional keepers only apply to the bottom teams.

Perhaps allowing an extra keeper instead of being in the lottery might be an interesting wrinkle.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 22:51

Fiures I would bench Hinrich, Pargo and Granger when they have big nights. Hinrich was unbelievable on my bench. Go figure.

Perm Dude
ID: 140201014
Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 23:06

Wow. When I saw how your players were doing I was bummed--I'm next behind you in points and I thought I was now in a big hole.

[Yesterday, however, I forgot about Collison, who I had picked up the day before, and left him and his 29pts/21rbs on the bench in Mike D's league. So I am in no position to gloat!]

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 10:09

So with Tony Allen down, Gerald Green (20 years old) becomes a big time weapon especially in a keeper league. Combined with Bynum (19! years old), is that enough to get me a decent starting point guard?

Mike D
Leader
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 11:36

Yeah, I have room for 2 more keepers----not!

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 15:03

I'm not sure how I feel about the falling behind on the max games played penalty.

I apologize for not being more active, but I have some RL issues that I am dealing with. At the same time I had 4 players on the IR. While I could have cut 1 (Etan Thomas) for a WW player, it would probably have been a slight decrease in productivity. I'm hoping that either Shaq will come back and help my team (especially rebounds), but he would have been grabbed almost immediately by another team, there's no way I cut Rashard Lewis. It could be argued that I should have cut Sean May, but realistically I knew that my team wasn't going to seriously compete this year so I made trades and draft picks with an eye for the future.

Does it seem reasonable that I give a player who could have value either as trade bait or in future years so I don't lose draft positions?

I'm not completely against this possability, I think my injury situation is more of a fluke than an average, but it does happen.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 15:16

No way you cut Shaq, Lewis or May.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 15:45

We could always institute a "hardship waiver" for teams that fall short of the GP limit due to extensive injuries.

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 16:13

Is there a way to track games lost to injury other than manually?

Sorry to keep being negative on the suggestion, I like the idea, just trying to work through the possible loopholes now.

If a manager picked up a so-so rookie or second year guy to hit the hardship waiver, is it a judgement call on the commish's part to call a foul?

We already have the lottery drawing to determine the first round picks. I don't see the NBA stepping in making the 76ers try and compete, and really in the Atlantic they aren't out of it.

Also, when I went and looked at the number of games played, I'm still in the middle of the pack, but I was in the top 2 or 3 until the injury bug struck.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 16:34

I just added a quick table in the standings thread that showed what the pro-rata GP would currently be to be "on pace" for the limits.

Through Jan. 10, an "on pace" team would have accumulated 301 GP. I'll update this daily in the standings thread.

I also provided the position breakdowns, thinking that you could compare these to the GP limits by position at the game site. But I see that the game site is woefully out of date. For example, my team has actually played 297 games, but the "Game Limit Status" page only shows me with 257 total games played. So that page is not only limited,... it's totally useless. (The only thing worse than insufficient info is incorrect info!)

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 16:40

Guru - thanks for that GP pace chart - extremely helpful. Strangely I'm 20 games over at F, only 7 at G and 1 at UTIL! Easily rectified! lol

My GP's on the site were indeed correct however. Odd that yours would be off.

beastiemiked
ID: 300351115
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 16:40

WTF, this is ridiculous. Chris Bosh, TJ Ford, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith, Brevin Knight, and now my secret weapon Tony Allen. Somebody shoot my team and put it out of its misery.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 17:00

Very odd. When I logged into the system on this computer, the game limit status page is correct. When I check it from my laptop, it's out of date for all teams.

I've had that browser window open on my laptop for several days, so perhaps there is some relevant cookie that isn't getting properly refreshed, and that's impacting the calculation. If so, that's really crappy programming. (I've confirmed that it's not simply a cache issue, because all teams show up as out of date on the laptop)

All other pages look to be current, however.

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 19:49

My first thought was IE not checking for a new version of the page, but garsh, doesn't sound like it. Maybe if you hit refresh enough times, bmd's team will become healthier.

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 11:04

I better take a picture because 3rd place might be the highest I ever get.

Perm Dude
ID: 6027137
Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 11:38

Great night for you. When you get 22 out of Granger you know you got it goin' on.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 11:42

I somehow managed to leave Boozer on my bench last night, while starting fringe players. I hate when that happens.

BTW, it appears that the game status limit page only updates when you log in to the system. If I leave a browser open from day to day, I'm able to bookmark my way into the system without logging in, but the game status limit page doesn't show any updates since the last time I logged in.

100

beastiemiked
ID: 2305565
Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 23:27

Tony Allen is available for anyone rebuilding for next year. As a starter this year he averaged 51% FG, 5.5 RPG, 2.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, and 16.4 PPG. Looking for someone that is healthy or a draft pick swap.

101

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 23:35

A few weeks back I was going to come in and bitch about always having one of the many megastars on my team out (Iverson->Allen->Ming, etc)...then I took a look at BMD's squad and laughed. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

102

blackjackis21
ID: 5211101623
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 01:05

Agreed - I can't believe bmd's year. Scary that he's where he is.

103

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 01:17

One thing interesting this year. Without the IL, the free agents have atleast been interesting and semi-useful.

104

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 11:42

Agreed RSF, losing the IL last year after the NBA got rid of the classification, actually helped our league. You think it's bad now, take away 20 free agents and the Charlotte Bobcats as it was in the past and you can see how bad it was.

105

Perm Dude
ID: 1091411
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 12:16

It makes for some interesting decisions, that's for sure. Combine that with some longer injuries and suspensions, and we have a number of on-the-fly strategy decisions to make.

Take Bynum: I drafted him and he was active during the first week or so--getting me some nice numbers. Then he went into Phil Jackson's doghouse, and with Wally injured I needed to make a decision to move him and ended up dropping him in the beginning of December. Not the smartest move, as it turned out, but there you go.

106

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 12:24

He's on the trading block along with other young guns like Lamarcus Aldrige and Gerald Green! :)

107

Perm Dude
ID: 1091411
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 12:36

Just sent you an offer, GO, about 5 minutes after I posted!

108

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 16:05

Re: 105

Agreed PD. And my point is that if you see a FA that can help you and want to use him, you risk going over the GPs threshold or you have to skip games by other guys on your team. Thenit begs the question if that guy will help you more than your current starters, etc.

109

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 22:34

PD, generally what I am looking for, let me think it over.

110

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 17, 2007, 10:34

Tied for 2nd?!?! Better get my camera out again!

111

Mike D
Leader
ID: 41831612
Wed, Jan 17, 2007, 11:25

Anyone in range of the top 6 wanting to get more depth in exchange for a stronger keeper/stud, let me know please......

112

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jan 17, 2007, 11:41

Just be sure you talk to me FIRST! Or last.....just talk to me! lol

113

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Wed, Jan 17, 2007, 13:09

I have depth available to trade. Players include -

Cuttino Mobley
Damon Stoudamire
Chucky Atkins
Brendan Haywood
Chuck Hayes
Nene Hilario

Those of you at the top ... get these key additions to your roster now! Draft picks acceptable.

114

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 11:35

Tosh/GO are there any draft picks with that trade?

115

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 11:41

Nope. Straight up.

116

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 11:55

Wow! That is an interesting deal. I would have taken Morrison at #2 had Frick taken Roy at #1. I know Morrison hasn't shot well, but he's basically doing what I expected him to do. Nota fan of Marcus yet. Wish I could have traded for him! ;)

117

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 12:06

That trade was certainly a lot of work and emails... with Rafer and Gilbert, I don't really need Morrison's biggest strength which is scoring + 3's. I need to invest in a prototypical PG long term. Living in Jersey and being able to watch him play made Marcus even more valuable to me.

118

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Jan 18, 2007, 12:48

I've been trying to bench some of my players to try and cut down on my GPs. Last night I decided to sit down Roy because his shooting has been so bad (though he had ben doing ok in other areas). Here is how he rewards me:
FG% FT% Pts 0Reb Reb Ast Stl Blk 3PM
0.500 0.500 19 5 10 4 6 0 2

I cna't seem to pick the right guys to start/bench and it's been killing me. 6 steals. 19 pts/10 rebs. 5 oreb. and shot 50%. Man how I can be so high in spite of my bungling management is unbelievable. OF course I lost 5 points last night so it could be the start of my free fall.

119

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Jan 19, 2007, 19:25

There have been lingering rumors for awhile now that Jason Kidd will get traded from NJN. If that happens, GO struck a goldmine with Marcus Williams. I was planning on Williams as my 6th keeper next year.

120

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Jan 26, 2007, 09:44

Looks like they are trying to deal, but its more with some combo of the injured Kristic, Wright (or possibly Jefferson) for Gasol.
Memphis doesn't give a hoot that these guys are hurt since this season is flushed down the toilet anyway. That would be a good trade for both teams IMO.

on a side note... since I acquired him -
After struggling with his shot, particularly in the lane, much of the season, Alston made an adjustment that might have led to his improved shooting in four of the Rockets' past five games, the Houston Chronicle reports. Excluding Saturday's loss to the Denver Nuggets in which he made just 5-of-18 shots, Alston connected on 30 of 67 shots in the other four games, averaging 20.5 points and seven assists with just 2.2 turnovers. "I've been able to get in the gym and work on getting more arc on the ball," Alston said. "I've always had good rotation. I had to work on getting the ball up in the air and continue to drive." It remains to be seen whether this adjustment is permanent, but for now it seems to be working.

I can't believe nobody needs his ridiculous 3's either... still looking for another conventional (assists) PG for Alston.

121

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Jan 26, 2007, 09:45

And yes, I plan on keeping Marcus obviously (as well as Lamarcus...) so pretty much my team will take off when these two get their PT situations organized the next couple years.

122

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Jan 26, 2007, 11:00

Marcus should get a boost with Jefferson being out the next month (or more).

Had a comment about posting the new plaque on our web site. Well, there isn't a new plaque to post yet, but will do so as soon as there is one. It is out of my hands.

I'm still shocked I am in 2nd place this late in the season. Maybe top 6 is a real possibility this year afterall. Can't even imagine where I'd be if I could figure out the right combinations of start/bench personnel on a given day! This inspite of dropping one keeper and having to bench another one. Now if I could jsut figure out how to reel bj21 in and keep everyone else behind me while cutting games...yeah, I can dream!

123

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Fri, Jan 26, 2007, 11:19

I'm just waiting for somebody to close the gap a bit so I can panic and make a trade(s) and forfeit some draft picks for next year. Until then, I guess if it ain't broke..., but with the season barely half over, I'm sure "it" will be broke at some point.

124

Perm Dude
ID: 130452817
Mon, Jan 29, 2007, 22:59

I wish they allowed you comments when you reject a trade!

Skinnee: I really like both those guys, but Butler is about the only real consistent player I have, IMO. I might be overvaluing him, but I really couldn't move him and Jason, even for those two.

Many thanks for the look.

pd

125

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Tue, Jan 30, 2007, 02:09

Yeah, I find that annoying (the no-comment, not PD's overvaluation of Butler).

126

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jan 30, 2007, 11:40

I just send an email.

127

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Tue, Jan 30, 2007, 22:39

Gilbert Arenas had 36 points, 11 assists and seven rebounds Tuesday night as the Washington Wizards beat the Detroit Pistons 104-99 in a midseason, first-place showdown, a victory tempered by a knee injury to Antawn Jamison.

This game sucks.

128

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Jan 31, 2007, 08:06

CC, I got your e-mail, but it will probably be late this evening before I get a chance to think about it. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you, I'll get back to you.

129

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Feb 04, 2007, 13:15

Not that it matters too much for me right now, but apparently if you make a pickup after the first game's freeze, that pickup doesn't count until tomorrow. Didn't realize that until just now.

130

blackjackis21
ID: 29112522
Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 18:56

Trade: I send B. Nachbar and my 4th round pick to Great One for Anthony Parker and his last round pick.

131

Great One
ID: 201155199
Tue, Feb 06, 2007, 19:07

Confirmed.
GO

132

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 07, 2007, 12:32

I'd highly recommend adding the draft picks in the details of your trade from now on. I'll add the picks to the rules on our G20/24 site as well as the NBA message board as soon as this trade goes through.

133

blackjackis21
ID: 46652621
Wed, Feb 07, 2007, 17:51

Re: 132 - I thought we did. Is there something I'm missing?

134

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 07, 2007, 17:56

I didn't see it on the site when I clicked on the details. Just don't want anyone thinking about objecting to a trade if there is more to it. Maybe ou did it and it didn't show up to the public? I know not everyone checks out our thread here regularly.

135

Perm Dude
ID: 713288
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 09:51

What the &*!@ is with the standings today?

Great job, Twarp! +60.5! Didn't know you had it in you...

136

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 09:57

Don't mean to toot my own horn, but my +21.5 ain't too shabby either!

137

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 10:45

Stats looked screwy today. Was waiting to see Guru's post on them but aren't up yet--so more suspicious of them. Mine is probably right though so maybe it works. I know that Twarpy has got a KILLER team and GO is rebuilding his pretty quickly so you never know I guess.

I added the traded draft picks to the message board and to our G20 website rules page.

138

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 11:38

Man the stats are screwed. They are different now then what they were at 8 am EST. They are NOT correct in the least.

139

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 11:42

I didn't post the standings today because they are obviously loony. I don't calculate the standings independently - I simply reformat what is reported at the game site.

But every team's marginal stats for the day are hugely negative, suggesting that some subset of NBA stats are missing from the calculation. Twarpy's team was impacted the least, hence his meteoric rise. For example, Twarpy's team lost only 249 points scored since yesterday, while my team lost 1636. Every category shows declines of a similar magnitude.

140

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 12:03

They looked weird earlier this morning, but they were probably right then. At that point, I had lost one point in assists to skinneej.

Something happened between like 8:30-9:30.

I've lost 3 or 4 points in assists in the last week alone. Stinks that my only healthy PG with PT lately has been Hinrich. I was looking at the FA wire at it is a joke. My strategy had been finding a guy with promise and taking a chance on him that he would get more PT. That worked out well with the NOK guys with all the injuries, but that's about it. Would be nice if JWill and Ridnour would be back to where they were earlier this season when they were rolling.

141

Mike D
Leader
ID: 41831612
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 12:14

I was gonna offer Baron Davis, Raymond Felton, and Shawn Livingston for Dirk, but I figured that wouldn't be enough.

;)

142

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 12:20

LOL!

I gotta admit that this line last night made me smile:

Dirk Nowitzki (DAL) vs MEM Final .700 FGP, .889 FTP, 38 PTS, 10 Reb, 6 Ast, 3 Stl, 4 Blk, 2 3PM, 4 OReb

143

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 12:24

I sent an email to NBA.com, and got a response within 5 minutes!

Thanks for the e-mail

Scores for your league have now been re-run.

At first glance, the stats appear correct. I'm sure someone can confirm.

144

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Feb 09, 2007, 08:38

The standings' place changes are based on the erroneous standings yesterday I'm guessing. I don't understand that as they fixed them. However, I'm assuiming the actual standings are correct.

I'm now hoping to hold onto 2nd place through the ASB. May be a tall order with all my injuries and loss of value on some other players--but there are other teams worse off so I can't complain. Tyson Chandler had another very nice line for me so I've got to take the bad with the good I suppose. I looked at every team yesterday as a potential trade partner. I found a handful, but am going to have to try and figure out a way to come up with a trade offer as I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head that I could give up to help them enough to have a chance of accepting an offer. Guess I'm going to have to think about draft picks--something I've never had to do in this league. Would hate to do that and then find out that my team isn't strong enough to finish in the money. But those who know me know I'm not afraid to take risks.

145

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 13:01

3rd rounder for 5th rounder included in that Delonte/Posey deal.

146

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 14:16

Is that Delonte + 5th for Posey + 3rd?

147

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 15:49

Correct. It's on the actual trade too, but wanted to post it here too in case I forget to add it to the G20/24 site. Wish I had gotten these other two offers on my desk before I made that deal, but oh well.

Btw, has there only been one other trade that included draft picks?

148

Peter N.
ID: 490381517
Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 21:52

My deal with Ref also includes me sending my 3rd for his 1st.

149

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 26, 2007, 21:53

Yep.

150

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 13:44

I have emailed NBA. Not sure why stats aren't updated. Also askd them to put the 3PM cat back on the FA list. Disappointing.

Here are the traded draft picks I have:

Trades Involving 2007 Draft Picks:
2-7 Great One receives bj21s 4th round pick. BJ21 gets GO’s 6th rounder (Nachbar/Parker deal)
2-27 GL gets Ref's 3rd rounder. Ref gets GL's 5th rounder (Delonte West/James Posey)
2-28 Peter N gets Ref's 1st Rounder. Ref gets Peter N's 3rd rounder (Tinsley/Devin Brown)

I have posted them on the NBA message board and updated the league constitution. We should have the plaque done soon and will have an updated that pic soon.

NBA just got back to me (in two hours even) and posted this:

Thanks for the e-mail

Scores for your league have now been run. We are currently working on having the 3pt category added back to the FA list.

151

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 13:47

Despite, nba's email. stats are still not updated on my screen and I've been hitting refresh, etc.

152

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 13:51

I predict we aren't using NBA.com next season :)

153

KnicksFan
Sustainer
ID: 030815418
Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 15:55

Choo Choo!

KnicksFan team points:

February 1st -- 87.5
March 1st -- 115.0

Choo Choo!

154

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Mar 05, 2007, 17:28

Frick, have been responding to your email. Not sure if you're getting your emails or not.

155

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 15:40

Lamar Odom is available to any team looking to next year. I'd be looking for a keeper in return for him.

156

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 11:29

Last night may have started my demise. All of my players were horrible. My trades have blown up in my face. I have nixed all other trades pending thus far and things aren't looking good at least for the next few days. Well if it's all over, it was fun while it lasted. I'm going to try and keep pushing forward and not let the urges of desperation take over as there is still plenty of time to still turn this around and make this a memorable season yet.

157

Species
ID: 151172211
Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 12:57

All I can do is let my guys play. I have a pretty solid starting 8 with Jason Richardson healthy (this extra time with the hand probably did wonders for his knee) and playing like a madman. Miller has been incredible, Mo Williams is great and Camby racks up stats (when he plays). Hughes has even picked it up as of late.

Got 1 feeler out on a trade but really I just have to see if my horses can do it.

158

Perm Dude
ID: 5325288
Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 13:04

My guys are just too inconsistent. Left Evans on the bench and he scores 22 on me. I've been trying to slow down in my GP so as to be careful not to blow through the limits too quickly, so this makes it doubly tough.

At least Caron's back.

159

Species
ID: 151172211
Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 13:14

My problem is that I just don't have that many categories to improve in.

PTS - can't move up, at risk of losing 1
OREB - very tight. Already 2nd, would be happy staying put
REB - Leading the category, nowhere to go but down
AST - Possible to move up, more likely to move down, although with Bibby, Williams, J-Rich and Hughes you'd hope you have enough horses there
STL - Perhaps my easiest category to move up in
BLK - Must've recently retaken the lead there. Nowhere to go but down
FG% - Too many bricklayeres (J-Rich, Bibby) to make hay here
FT% - Dead last - at least I can't lose
3 - Legit shot at 3 or more points here

Should be a great stretch run!

160

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 13:47

I can't decide whether I need to sit tight, shore up a little bit with a small trade, or move Wade and try to "lock up" the year.

I have an advantage in that I've got more GP's left than the guys at the top (except bmd), but if I can't get guys healthy, that's not going to matter.

If I can get Jefferson, Lee, and A. Parker back (and get R. Wallace contributing), I may have enough mediocre guys to fill up the GP's, but not sure if the GP's will be quality enough at that point.

Should be interesting indeed - still about 1/4 of the season to go, I think? 10 days to the trading deadline (Mar. 18).

161

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 18:35

Tosh and blackjackis21 trade -

Gooden + Tosh Round 3,4,5 -for- Abdur-Rahim + bj21 Round 1,3,4

162

blackjackis21
ID: 5211101623
Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 19:23

Agreed.

163

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 10:37

Shoot - I screwed up. I attempted to trade away a pick I didn't have. Great One owns my 4th round pick, so Tosh and my trade will have to be:

blackjackis21 receives D. Gooden and Tosh's Round 3 and 5, and sends Abdur-Rahim and bj21's round 1 and 3.

I assume that works for you Tosh (it was your original offer before my counter, I believe), but let me know if not.

Sorry for the hassle guys, my bad.

164

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 12:21

LOL. And after all that haggling. It's fine with me.

165

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 23:51

Updated on NBA and G20/24 site.

166

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 00:52

I'll be a team player here...

I'll trade you my 4th for your 2nd, then you can ship that one to Tosh.

I know. I know. Its a sacrifice, but I am willing to do what is best for the league...

167

blackjackis21
ID: 5211101623
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 01:39

You're too kind...

168

blackjackis21
Dude
ID: 034837521
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 14:32

Coldwater C's - you've got mail. Let me know if you didn't see it.

Thanks.

169

Great One
ID: 201155199
Fri, Mar 16, 2007, 22:22

I'm looking to move Alston for a 2nd or 3rd round pick depending on where you are in the standings. I am giving back my 5th rounder in exchange so you really aren't losing all that much... who wants him? Almost a triple double tonight + 5 3's... those 3's and steals can get you moving up the standings quicker than anything!

170

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sat, Mar 17, 2007, 15:08

Got the replacement plaque yesterday...less then thrilled with the outcome of it. I asked for 10 slots and they gave me only 6. The RotoGuru is jagged and some of the brass lettering isn't cut all the way through.

Then they misspelled season two's winner as "APileOfCrap" and season three as "AP10-Lite"...hmmm.

I'll get a pic posted as soon as I can. I am still contemplating getting another place to do this and shit-canning this one.

171

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Mar 17, 2007, 19:05

Bummer RSF. This has been one huge headache. I'd try and make the place to make it right or refund it and go elsewhere. As much of an issue it has been, might as well get it to look as nice as the last ones.

172

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Mar 17, 2007, 19:12

I'll donate last year's and this year's top 6 winnings to the new bugger.

173

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, Mar 18, 2007, 12:13

Pending Trade
PD acquired Alston + GO's 5th round pick
GO acquire Corliss + PD's 2nd round pick

174

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 12:06

I was wondering why there wasn't a draft pick with that trade on the site. Can PD confirm that please?

Trade deadline passed yesterday. Been so busy setting up Baseball draft that I forgot to remind everyone.

175

Perm Dude
ID: 2328199
Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 12:09

Confirmed. I thought the web site trade included the picks--were they stripped out?

176

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 12:11

Its written in the comments, you can actually add picks on there or am I confused?

177

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 14:31

GO, I have no idea when it comes to what NBA.com does. I didn't see the comments on the trade.

Web site never included picks as far as I know. Of course they have stripped away a lot of promised features. At least it's free--but so is Yahoo!. Guess NBA had better be MUCH better next year and all their stuff imped in preseason. Still, I'm very leary of coming back after what we've went through thus far.

178

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 14:49

I would be MUCH happier if this league were in Yahoo next season, I know that much.

179

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Mar 20, 2007, 12:47

Re: 173 Rules updated on our g20/24 site.

181

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, Mar 25, 2007, 12:10

Did anyone see the announcement that the NBA had to end its season last night?

182

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sun, Mar 25, 2007, 12:23

LMAO!

183

blackjackis21
ID: 5211101623
Sun, Mar 25, 2007, 15:14

Indeed.
Ugh.

184

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Mar 29, 2007, 10:42

Would you mind having your hero Mr. Nowitzki pick it up a little? He's been killing me in Jeepers Keepers and in TSN.

185

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Mar 29, 2007, 15:57

Yeah my team is crapping out again. Would you calm down bmd! Wtf is this? You're going to blow by all of us. Not helping that cats I had a huge lead on that I've virtually ignored are coming back to bite me in the ass and taking points away. Points I just can't afford. It's not in the cards it seems, but my overachieving team at least deserve some props for getting me this far. Thanks esp. to Dirk and Chandler! Roy has shown some ability to stuff the stat sheet at times as well. No props at all to the guys I mortgaged next year for in trades!!!

186

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 08:58

Yeah, well those leagues are in the toilet unless he picks it back up. Unfortunately I think Dirks been on cruise control cause they are waiting on the playoffs.
Whens the last time he got more than 5 rebounds in a game? or more than 2 assists? or more than 1 block OR 1 steal?

I gotta hope he steps back on the accelerator or I am gonna lose some $$$ in my H2H league. I also have Marion who similarly is on cruise...

187

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 11:33

I need more guys like that. I was hoping to slide into a better draft spot, but no....all of a sudden they are making a late push. Probably not enough of a push to satisfy me, so really they're just p*ssing me off.

188

KnicksFan
ID: 551391816
Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 17:16

Smush Parker is playing hard. Ref, do you want to make a Dirk-Smush trade? I guess I could throw in John Salmons too.

189

blackjackis21
ID: 5211101623
Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 17:21

If Wade doesn't make an appearance soon, bmd's going to take this one going away. Maybe even if Wade does come back.

190

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 05, 2007, 12:23

My top two playera are hurt and/or sick. If my guys would even produce their averages I'd actually have a shot, but alas that's not been happening. I knew bmd would be up here eventually!

191

KnicksFan
Sustainer
ID: 030815418
Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 11:38

To Ref:

192

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 16:45

HAHA!!! Won't be hard. All my guys are hurt or out. I'm trying to get scrubs right now who will actually play. I should have played more guys earlier on so I'd be farther over instead of trying to slow down. Now I'm having to shuffle scrubs. This is the most pathetic ending ever.

193

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 12:13

My goal this year was to finish top 6. So even though I am happy that I'm in position to do that, I am frustrated by the total and complete breakdown of my team down the stretch. I was able to compensate for injuries in the middl of the year, but nothing I can really do at the end of the game. Kinda like a bad call by the referee early in the game--players can compensate for it. But that same call late in the game and poof--cna't get past it.

194

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 20:51

Has it been a month since Dirk actually grabbed 10 rebounds? I count 6 steals and 7 blocks total over that month long span as well. Did Dallas seriously put it on cruise control in early April?

195

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 21:40

Clinching best record will do that.

196

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 11:03

That and he's been hurt and had food poisoning. He's been playing limited mins when he does play. Too bad Chandler has been out along with Roy. Tinsley played for the first time in a long time last night and was largely ineffective--though I'll take it. Granger is starting to score points again, but little else. Murphy has been a bust. Hinrich hasn't done much though he got some assists yesterday. Basically, I have a bunch of FA pickups trying to complete my season for me. I'd have more too, but I'mnot sure who my keepers will be so am holding on to soem I prob. shouldn't.

197

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 11:06

Murphy is a bit of an enigma, isn't he? You'd think he's finally in a position to succeed and he's just very... average.

198

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 15:42

Is it just me or do the e-mails from NBA.com seem sporadic at best.

I also want to apologize to the league for not being more active at the trade dead line. I got busy with work and life and then scheduled a vacation with my wife on the days leading up and including the trade deadline. I had sent out some feelers and didn't follow up, I'm sorry about that.

What is the general schedule once the season wraps up?

199

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 17:02

Some of my guys played pretty darn well down the stretch, but my team was basically pigeonholed in certain categories (FT%, FG%, 3's) that I really had little chance of improving upon (especially 3's when Mike Miller went down)....and I was destined to finish with 128 points. I just couldn't squeeze much more out of these guys.

Congrats to bmd who looks like he will do the Baseball/Basketball double take. When he was really low in GP's I was amazed how strong he still was in most cats....way to go man.

Someday I will beat you in a fanstasy league.

200

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 18:37

Hey, it definitely ain't over yet. BJ can improve in 3-4 cats and I'm a mediocre shooting night away from dropping in the % cats.

201

blackjackis21
ID: 12381014
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 09:58

Congrats to bmd for winning, and to Species for the last second sprint to take second place! Frankly, I didn't see that coming.

202

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 10:23

Nice job bmd!

203

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 12:50

Standings - Overall
Rank Team Overall Pts Change
1 beastiemiked 137.0 1.0
2 Species 132.0 2.0
3 blackjackis21 131.0 -2.0
4 Extreme Basketball 129.0 1.0
5 Can't Beat the Refs 128.0 2.0
6 KnicksFan 121.0 0.0
7 RSF 103.0 -2.0
8 coldwater coyotes 103.0 0.0
9 RotoGuru Talaxians 97.0 0.0
10 Skinnee Soldiers 97.0 0.0
11 Peter N. 94.0 -2.0
12 Tosh 88.5 -0.5
13 slackjawed yokel 88.5 2.5
14 Twarpy 83.0 0.0
15 Great One 76.0 -1.0
16 Perm Dude 73.0 0.0
17 Blurred Crusaders 70.0 0.0
18 Frick 62.0 -1.0
19 CCRider 39.0 0.0
20 GoatLockers Kids 38.0 0.0

VI Prizes

A fine plaque will be engraved and shipped to the winner courtesy of the previous year's winner. The trophy will be yours to proudly display with your other cherished mementos for 1 year. It will be the winner’s responsibility to engrave it and ship it to the winner. There will be an added nominal fee to help cover expenses related to the engraving and shipping of the plaque.

A separate cash prize pool has also been established. It is strictly voluntary. Only those who participate will be eligible for this prize. $15 USD entry must be paid by the season opener. The exact method of prize distribution will vary from year to year depending on participation. We focus payouts so it will NOT be winner take all. Six owners will have a chance to “win something.” Prize pool funds are due by Opening Night.

2006-07 Payout has 17 managers paid:
1st $100
2nd $60
3rd $35
4th $25
5th $20
6th $15
Total Payouts is 17 X $15 = $255

Ineligible for prize pool:
PD, Pistol Pete, Mike D

If any of the non-participants qualify, the prizes will be reallocated by the commissioners. Managers will move up payout position(s) and any remaining funds will go into the trophy fund.

2006-07 Payout:
1st $100 bmd
2nd $60 Species
3rd $35 bj21
4th $25 Ref
5th $20 KF
6th $15 trophy fund

204

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 12:51

Lots of ties. The Lottery and draft order is going to be interesting.

205

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 12:57

I am a kind of proud I got from a distant dead last when Gasol returned... all the way up into 15th and within spitting distance of a few more spots.

A full season with some of these guys will be fun!
Hopefully Kidd leaves sooner than later and its the Marcus Williams show... and I can steal one fo the top 2 draft picks. Now THAT would be nice :)

206

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:01

Oh man...I just disappeared (never to be heard from again) after mailing the trophy without insurance to bmd.

207

Peter N.
ID: 333491512
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:02

Congrats BMD! Well done.

208

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:03

Prize winners: please send me an email and let me know how you would like to be paid.

Options are:
1) I can send a check (provide mailing address in that case). No cost involved.
2) I can send via Paypal. If there are any fees, they will be assessed on your end.
3) I can retain all or a portion for next year's dues.

209

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:16

My team overachieved but I had a chance tow in or at least finish 2nd if my players had maintained down the stretch and not gotten hurt. I also messed up by benching nice players because I was so far over GPs and ended up falling short in games--esp Guard. Injuries were problematic but I was able to compensate by living on the wire--esp the NOK players. That was huge and jetted me up. Tyson Chandler was a beast for me after a slow start.

Inconsistencies hurt me too, esp from JWill and Granger. All my trades backfired. I gave up on assists and 3s way too early. Took too many chances on scrubs that wasted games too. But even though my 61 transactions were moe than needed, I don't know how some of you guys have single digit moves. I just can't function like that. I still firmly believe we need to up our GP limits so the the teams who have an insane top 6 or 7 players need to use their whole teams instead of their core players.

Maybe I'll propose 90 as that would have gotten it done two years ago whereas 92 was defeated by just a vote or two. At least four of those people said they would vhae voted for 90 but couldn't go 92. I was very unhappy with NBA's site. Will definitely look again for another site and could always go back to Yahoo if need be. Guess NBA would have to REALLY improve and be ready well before the season before I'd even consider going back. I just can't see that happening.

This is my least favorite of our trilogy of deep Gurupie games so to finish "in the money" was definitely a huge treat for me. I know I overachieved, but that's fine. That's what we all hope to do if you don't have the players. After winning g24 twice and G20 baseball three times, this finish is like a win for me. Maybe I've got my core players now to make a run--but of course I did trade my first pick away but do have two or three guys I can't keep that should be kept so maybe I can deal them away.

BMD is on a rampage. He takes G20 baseball for the first time and after a runner-up finish last year in this league, comes from way down to take the title. He also was runner-up two years ago in G24, so he is on a mission. Grats again!

This league has had a different winner each year so it is definitely competitive with some parity.

210

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:28

Congrats beastiemiked. Very impressive two-fer wins in a very tough league.

Re: Me - WHOA! Where the hell did THAT come from?!?!? Sweet! I didn't think my team had the ability to makeup that many points!! I am shocked but extremely pleased to post a 2nd place finish. Thank you J-Rich, Bibby, Hughes and Mo Will for your barrage of 3's on the last night. Hell I nearly passed bj21 last night in that cat, too.

Thanks to everyone for a great year.

211

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 16:49

Who knows, but thanks for passing me. I'd rather have the better draft pick since once again my money goes elsewhere (booooo!).

Some great competition at the top these last few weeks and months. Masterfully done, BMD. We all saw it coming and were helpless.

212

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 19:02

Congrats beastiemiked. Way to finish strong!

blackjackis21 - Maybe you should have traded me Wade after all! ;-)

And now I am going to complain. I played this game hard all the way to the end, and was able to finsh tied for 12th. Twarpy had 110 fewer GP than me. On Nov. 30, he told the league his activity would increase ... yet he made only one (1) add/drop since then, and only six (6) lineup changes since then.

There were a few other teams with low game totals, but at least they were active in their add/drops and lineup changes.

It is an injustice if Twarpy is allowed to get an earlier draft pick than me. This needs to get discussed by the league and resolved.

213

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 21:49

Agreed.

214

KnicksFan
ID: 551391816
Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 21:37

Thank you Leandro.

Smush, your days are numbered.

Hermann...you have Sanjaya-esque hair, so I will have to take that into consideration when I make my final decision.

215

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 22:01

I was thinking more "Fabio-esqe"

216

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 23:23

Somebody get that story about Herrmann again... you can't drop a guy who has been through that much heartache!

On a side note, I purposely only have 5 definite keepers. So if you wanna get ahead of the curve and start offering me your extras for a pick, you know where to find me.

217

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 00:57

Thx all. I was lucky enough for my full team to be healthy the last month and a half to make the run. Species, bj, Mike D, and Ref all could've just as easily been up at the top.

I've got 7 keepers right now. Looking to trade one of TJ Ford, Rajon Rondo, or Antawn Jamison. Doubt I'll make any moves right away but thought I'd get the word out.

218

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Apr 25, 2007, 15:50

I have grabbed all of the Stadings (including all cats), Transaction info, Games used info, activity info, etc. and put it in a .xls file and placed it on our anglefire G20/24 web site.

I am not even sure where we stand with our plaque. Last I heard rsf finally was able to get one made but he said it was junk and was going to have them redo it but that's been awhile ago. RSF was supposed to get funds from Twarpy to make it but Twarpy said that hadn't happened yet. So we need to know where we stand. Twarpy has accepted responsibility on his end and is willing to send the money for the plaque via paypal to whomever ultimately makes it. Not sure if that needs to be RSF, bmd or someone else at this point.

219

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, May 20, 2007, 11:23

Ref - do we have a draft lottery? (I assume so).

I was wondering if it we've ever considered using the "real" lottery for our league. Like we all get associated with a team based on final standings... i.e. Goat is Memphis Grizzlies. Then we could all watch the real draft lottery (Tuesday 8:30 PM on ESPN!)

220

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, May 20, 2007, 15:33

Yes.

No, we use the same formula as the NBA so we will wait to see who our managers are before we run those. We will have some turnover apparently.

221

Great One
ID: 201155199
Sun, May 20, 2007, 16:37

Well it would still be the "team" not the "coach", right? Determining draft order shouldn't really matter.

I don't know. I just thought it would be kind of fun to have our lottery live on ESPN! :) lol...

222

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sun, May 20, 2007, 22:18

Problem is that we have ties the NBA doens't and vice versa. So it's not going to be exactly the same.

223

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, May 21, 2007, 11:27

I guess I'll propose it for next season when the time comes. I'm not really understanding why it would be complicated.

It's not like in football where we have the "real" team names...
i.e. the Jets could have the Giants draft pick. I could see how that would be confusing. Plus they don't have a lottery anyway.

"Goatlockers Kids" team (or whoever takes it over) gets Memphis' ping-pong balls and so on. I guess you are saying you'd like to know which manager has which team first. But in a normal year we shouldn't have too much turnover anyway, right? And they are pretty much getting the same pick regardless (outside of the chance that the top 3 get shuffled). And its not like the new guy can pick his team anyway.

And then we'd have our lottery on ESPN? that would be awesome!
Plus less work of setting up the simulator and all that junk.

for example...
G24 Team = NBA Team

Goatlocker = Memphis
CCRider = Boston
Frick = Milwaukee
Blurred Crusaders = Phoenix via Atlanta
Perm Dude = Seattle
Great One = Portland
Twarpy = Minnesota
Slackjawed = Charlotte
Tosh = Chicago via NY
PeterN = Sacramento
SkinneeJ = Atlanta via Indiana
Guru = Philly
Coldwater = New Orleans
RSF = LA Clippers

224

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, May 21, 2007, 12:35

Wow I forgot PHO got ATL's pick. How off the hook would THAT be to see a front line of Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion and Greg Oden......or Kevin Durant!

225

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, May 21, 2007, 12:44

I gotta say, I'm pulling for Boston here. They missed out on Duncan all those years back... if they miss out on #1 or #2, you can't help but feel bad for them.

Yeah, any of those guys (or that 7-foot Asian guy who's name escapes me) would be ridiculous on Phoenix.

226

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, May 21, 2007, 23:26

Maybe I'm not communicating all the ties and stuff we have. Perhaps Guru would be better at explaining.

227

rockafellerskank
ID: 51281619
Mon, May 21, 2007, 23:39

#224 Species: ATL pick is top-3 protected.

... now back to your regularly scheduled thread....

228

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, May 22, 2007, 00:58

Indiana's pick is top 3 protected as well.

229

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Tue, May 22, 2007, 01:16

lol........the former G20 man slips in for a hit-and-run post!

Thanks though rfs....didn't know that. I guess they're hoping for no surprises then eh?

Only 9.5 more months until Spring Training!

230

Great One
ID: 201155199
Tue, May 22, 2007, 21:35

I would have won the lottery! lol... thats incredible.

231

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Wed, May 23, 2007, 12:28

beastiemiked, you check your Yahoo email lately? Need your address to send the plaque too. Maybe my email is getting stripped as spam or something. Send your address to RecycledSpinalFluid at Gmail.com. Thanks.

232

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, May 25, 2007, 23:52

bmd, got your email on Wednesday, unfortunately I've been off on training in Seattle and am just getting back. I'll get it shipped off tomorrow. Thanks.

233

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Sun, May 27, 2007, 21:40

Mailed it off late day on Saturday. USPS 2 Day Priority (with 75$ insurance...). I imagine it will get there on Wednesday at best. Let us know when it does.

234

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 06:46

Any word, bmd?

235

beastiemiked
ID: 3101646
Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 22:16

Yeah, my parents said a "package" came on Wednesday. I'm out of town until late June so haven't seen it.

236

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 11:24

So when is the lottery? :)

237

Perm Dude
ID: 5093716
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 11:33

LOL! I was just looking over my roster this morning. Last season I was chasing you about all season, GO.

238

Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 12:04

If we need any new blood, I know this guy at work, I promise he'd be active lol... :)

239

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 13:56

Tosh and I have been working on this for awhile. Tosh has worked hard on this and should get major props. I copied all the info from last year and made a SS. I asked Tosh to go over everything and asked him to head up re-invites. I haven't done much on the site yet but Tosh has some good news for us. All of that will be talked about in a new thread.

I know for sure that 2 or 3 managers will not be returning. There is a proposal for contraction from 20 to 18 teams as well. When we send out re-invites we will be able to know for sure how many managers we have and how many we need to recruit (once we figure out if that proposal passes). I posted in the RIFC QL thread to email me for anyone interested in joining. So we definitely would like nominations for replacements.

Re-invites should go out soon. If you haven't already gotten an email from Tosh asking you about last year, then it's safe to assume you will be getting asked back. I will start a new thread when re-invites are going out.

240

rockafellerskank
ID: 450122417
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:11

Hey fellow G20'ers. I'll toss this out....

My schedule will allow me to play some fantasy sports for the first time in a few years. If you have me back, I'd humbly accept any team that might be available. Send me an e-mail if you are interested. I promise to be competitive and active. :)

241

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:32

I'd buy active....

But competitive?!?

;-)

242

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:42

obviously, rfs would get first chance to come back. After all, he's only the co-creator of this league in the first place!

243

Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:44

Might as well start my ad campaign:

I have 8 guys who are legitimate keepers:
Mike Bibby
Mo Williams
Jason Richardson
Larry Hughes
Mike Miller
Chris Wilcox
Elton Brand
Marcus Camby

I am definitely too guard-heavy and wouldn't mind packaging a couple solid guards for a big man. You have Bibby and Miller who are going into "Phoenix-style" uptempo offenses who could garner some interest.

Anyone short legit keeps should drop me a line!

244

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 21:43

I have too many already......I just can't remember who they are.

245

Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 22:52

I'll probably be looking to do some dealing.

Anyone interested in Shaq?

246

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 22:52

I sent Tosh a complete list since the one Ref had was missing people. I'll dig it up and post the final rosters later.

And after debating whether I was coming back or not, one look at my keepers reminded me I'll take the league by 20 points, so it was really no choice at all.

247

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:16

All teams are available via the nba.com fantasy game site.
www.nba.com/fantasy

I know that most of us had some complaints about the nba.com format last season. They have done a lot of work on the issues, and seem to have a solid product. I think we should consider staying with them, rather than switching back to yahoo.com.

248

Perm Dude
ID: 5093716
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:29

Jannero Pargo
Rafer Alston
DeShawn Stevenson
Raja Bell
J.J. Redick
Jason Terry
Maurice Evans
Rasual Butler
Caron Butler
Joe Smith
Jeff Foster
Andrew Bynum

249

Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:55

Man, my team sucks. Wait, that's not my team, it's PDs! Whew. Now mine, well, we get 10 keepers, right?

Baron Davis - GSW [G]
Shaun Livingston - LAC [G]
Raymond Felton - CHA [G]
Luol Deng - CHI [G, F]
Matt Carroll - CHA [G, F]
Ricky Davis - MIN [G, F]
Vince Carter - NJN [G, F]
Andrei Kirilenko - UTA [F]
Chuck Hayes - HOU [F]
Paul Millsap - UTA [F]
Ike Diogu - IND [F, C]
Mehmet Okur - UTA [C]

250

Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:59

2007 Pre-season thread

Invites have started to go out...

Forum: hoopPage 12213Subject: Gurupie 20 '06 Season Discussion II

Forum: hoop
Page 12213
Subject: Gurupie 20 '06 Season Discussion II