Forum: hoop
Page 12516
Subject: NBA Stock Exchange (RotoHog)

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 11:30
This has been mentioned briefly in some of the RotoHogo threads for other sports, but deserves its own discussion here.

NBA.com has partnered with RotoHog to run its "salary cap" fantasy game. In previous years, TSN has been NBA.com's salary cap provider (although I don't recall if they did so last year).

Here is the link to the game site:
http://nbase.nba.com/group/main/home

There are many similarities with the baseball and football versions of RotoHog, but also some significant differences. Perhaps the biggest difference is the modest prize structure - but let me defer on that until later. There are also some contraints on player trading, including a requirement to keep any starting player on your roster for at least 2 days following his first start (watch out if a newly acquired player gets injured in his first game!), and a sliding scale of transaction fees to make it more expensive for wealthier teams to trade (i.e., a form of luxury tax, I suppose).

For those unfammiliar with the RotoHog model, let me toss out a few key distinctions vs. the TSN model:
1. Prices move continuously (subject to an overnight market moratorium).
2. Prices have a bid-ask spread, so that the "buy price" for any player is always somewhat higher than the "sell price". There are also transaction fees associated with each buy and sell.
3. There is an 82 game limit for each position slot. In the TSN game, schedule intensity is always a key factor. In this game, there is no inherent advantage to getting players with dense schedules - except in the case of a monthly contest.

Now, the prizes. One of the big attractions for the other RotoHog games has been the lure of a top prize of $100,000, along with other significant payouts for top finishers.

Not so this time. In fact, the TSN Ultimate Hoops prize structure is probably more generous!

First, everyone will be entered in a Global League. It's not clear to me that there is any prize for winning the Global League, other than "earning the title of the NBA Stock Exchange Fantasy Basketball Champion." LOL!

Second, there will be some number of Celebrity Leagues. I haven't figured out how many there are, and who the celebrites are, although I think they will be retired NBA players. Winning a celebrity league earns a $1000 gift certificate to the NBA store, plus a phone call from that league's celebrity, plus two tickets to an NBA game in 2008-09.

There will also be monthly prizes, and they may be more attractive to many than the overall prizes. That's significant, because the optimal strategy for a monthly prize may differ from that for a full season prize, since you will want to concentrate game exposures during that month. For each of the five full months (Nov-March), the top prize is a Sony PS3 video game system plus two NBA video games. There are also 9 runner-up prizes each month, which is an NBA video game (presumably for the Sony PS3 platform).

So, if you are more interested in winning a PS3, you might want to focus your energies on some particular month - which has the additional advantage of not consuming the entire season, plus giving you a fresh start each month.

I'm going to shut up now. Feel free to chime in, and please correct anything that you think I've stated incorrectly. I'll confess that I haven't studied this too closely.

Oh, and I'll probably include stats for this game in the sortable stats and the individual player pages, assuming there is interest. The schedule outlook features in the sortables will be especially useful for those vying for a monthly prize.
 
1deejay
      Donor
      ID: 501182710
      Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 11:39 		Another format, I cannot handle that. :)

The phone call prize is funny tho.
 
2deejay
      Donor
      ID: 501182710
      Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 12:05 		"In order to accept the call from the former NBA player winner must have access to a phone..."


hahaha. too funny.
 
3JCS
      SuperDude
      ID: 020102934
      Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 06:06 		Anybody who's a regular user of TSN's format is familiar with this one? I'm pretty sure I won't have the time for TSN Ultimate Hoops this year, and I've been thinking about finding some other less time-consuming game. This one maybe?
 
4Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 10:04 		Depends.

If you are in this for the full season, it can be more time consuming than TSN - especially for the first month, since the market is open (and prices are changing) continuously.

If you are vying for a monthly prize, then you can at least focus your efforts over a shorter period. But even so, you might want to use the first month or so just to build up some value.

I don't think I'd characterize this game as one that is less intense or time-comsuming than the TSN game.

On the other hand, it is free to join and you can always drop out if it's too much to handle.
 
5Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 11:21 		I just pulled together a spreadsheet of all listed players, positions, prices, and points.

http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/draftlist2007.xls

I haven't really looked at it much, but I did scan down the position listings. The oddest one looed like Marcus Williams, who they have listed at PG, SG, SF, and PF.

PF?
 
6Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 08:42 		Judging by the lack of posts about NBASE on the NBA forum, I'm guessing not that many people have signed up yet. I get the impression that the NBA is a little clueless about what to do with this game, and that it may be less successful than the games that Rotohog is promoting themselves.
 
7Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 10:58 		nba.com just slaps it on there, IMO, and lets the power of the site do it.

RotoHog probably doesn't care because they probably get a flat fee for the platform and operating the game. Maybe I'll ask them next week! lol
 
8Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:23 		I think one of the major issues RH is facing as companies are refusing their advertising--assumingly because of competition (ESPN and other entities).

So RH is forced to go into a few cities across the country and put ads in papers or whatever. Perhaps they see NBA.com as a way to get their game to the masses which might in turn help their other games. It's a good idea in theory. But I just don't know how popular nba.com is. Obviously the prize structure we're used to doesn't seem to be there. I think that's what will hurt this game. If the money was there, word will get out.
 
9Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Wed, Oct 10, 2007, 11:31 		I agree. I'm only planning to play because I assume some of the changes to the trading rules are likely to be carried over to 2008 baseball, so I want to get a feel for how the market works.
 
10Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 13, 2007, 11:34 		I'm now tracking player points for preseason games.

So far, you can find a daily list at http://rotoguru2.com/hoop/yday/pscy.html, and you can also see the daily history for any player on that player's individual page.

It's interesting to see how different the sorted lists are for TSNP vs. RHP. I think the results are accurate (but please feel free to check my results), and the differences are due to the different proportionate weightings in the two formulas. For example, the RotoHog scoring system provides extra weight for blocks, steals, turnovers, and missed FTs, with less weight on scoring.

I'll also be integrating this (including preseason points) into the sortable stats, but that has yet to be completed. Hopefully within the next few days.
 
11Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 16:13 		Sortable stats now include RotoHog points, prices, and positions.

I hope it's all working OK. I did a lot of testing, but there are plenty of combinations that I did not test. Please report any goofs.

Position coding is a little different than TSN, since the RotoHog game distinguishes between PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.
 
12Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 17:01 		Guru,
What's the Feb 17th Price for RotoHog Stats?
Is it supposed to be Oct 17th?

--Addicted--
 
13Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 17:14 		No, it should say "draft". I'll fix that.
 
14Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Oct 20, 2007, 22:24 		Still no announcement for Global League Prizes I see.

I just got a bunch of TSN tokens. I'm trying to figure out if I have the time to play TSN Hoops or not.
 
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 20, 2007, 23:20 		What? You mean "earning the title of the NBA Stock Exchange Fantasy Basketball Champion" isn't enough of an incentive?
 
16Crunch Bunch
      ID: 10742520
      Sun, Oct 21, 2007, 14:44 		They added a BJ Armstrong or George Gervin celebrity league
 
17Alex
      ID: 27324224
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 11:58 		Any word on what players have been selling out in drafts?
 
18Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 12:14 		Based on experience with other RotoHog games, players who tend to sell out in drafts are players to avoid. They'll suffer price declines early on. And with new teams and non-drafting teams, no player is likely to be sold out when trading resumes.

If you are going to draft, focus on players who look cheap. The early gainers will come from that universe. Fill in some studs next week, after the initial trading dust settles.
 
19Alex
      ID: 27324224
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 12:23 		Guru - I know that happened in football, but I assumed that was largely because of their silly (IMO) distinction between sales by those who had drafted and sales by those who had signed up later. I'm also guessing that based on all the negative feedback they have probably tweaked their pricing algorithm again to ensure that players who are sold out generally go up in price.
 
20Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 12:37 		I make no such assumption.

I expect that many people will attempt to draft a viable team roster, with a few top players, some mid-tier players, and a cheapie or two. Essentially, they'll approach this like all other "normal" drafts.

However, when trading opens, some of the cheaper bargains will begin to be apparent via early price movement. In order to raise funds, some of the more expensive players will be sold - causing them to show declines. This will touch off more buying of the gainers and more selling of the studs.

I haven't studied the draft pricing in detail, but I doubt if there is any "must buy" player among the upper tier. With the GP limit for each position, early schedule density is not a consideration. And the best recipe for an early selloff is the combo of high ownership and an early price leak.

 
21GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 17:42 		Ditto what Guru said.
We actually had a fairly long talk with David about the two different alternatives.

Drafting / Waiting to buy the team until after the draft.
Each has its pluses and minuses.

Wasn't going to play Basketball, but did sign up.
Haven't set a draft time yet.
I'm thinking that I will wait until the 28th and just buy then.
Of course, that is 5:00 AM on a Sunday morning.
For those wondering, the hours for basketball are the way they are, because of the international interest.

Ugh.
Might pass after all.

Cliff

 
22Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 21:58 		After rereading the rules, I'm not sure I fully understand the sell limitations.

If I buy Kobe and start him on Monday, I cannot sell him until Wednesday.

But suppose Kobe plays on both Monday and Tuesday. Can I still sell him on Wednesday, or do I have to wait until Thursday?

Or suppose he plays on Monday and Wednesday, and I start him for both games. Can I sell him on Thursday, or do I have to wait until Friday?

My initial interpretation is that the 2-day hold only counts from the first game he starts for me. But I don't see that specifically spelled out.
 
23xpdurmind
      Sustainer
      ID: 319471922
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 22:25 		I am sorry to see the nba.com free tsn game go since I placed in prizes the past 2 years and I didn't have to spend that much time on it.

In any case I signed up for their rotohog game and went to the live draft only to be unable to draft any players. I got an email saying the following:

"Thank you for signing up for the NBA Stock Exchange. Our records indicate that you experienced connection difficulties during your draft today.


The situation has been resolved and we have reset your draft status so you can now choose another draft time.

Remember, it is not necessary to participate in the draft so do not be discouraged if you are unable to find another suitable draft time. You will have the ability to Buy and Sell any player when the trading floor opens on Sunday, October 28th.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and wish you the best of luck this season.

Best Regards, "

Needless to say, the problem was on their end and I will not be going back.


 
24Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 22:32 		Same thing happened in football
 
25deejay
      Donor
      ID: 501182710
      Fri, Oct 26, 2007, 04:12 		I am sorry to see the nba.com free tsn game go

Same here, really liked it.
 
26Crunch Bunch
      ID: 3136114
      Fri, Oct 26, 2007, 17:12 		Re 22

That's how I read it also. From the rules:

"In order to get credit for a player's on field performance, managers have to place the player in a starting position at least 5 minutes before his NBA team is scheduled to tip-off. After this point, the player cannot be moved between a starting position and a bench position, and starting players cannot be sold until the opening of trading the following morning."

Not sure how a starting player could ever be sold the following morning under the other interpretation - guess that rule is in place to stop owners from picking up, starting and then dropping a player the next day.
 
27Crunch Bunch
      ID: 10742520
      Fri, Oct 26, 2007, 23:39 		Finished My Draft

I have a team of Damon Stoudamire, McCants, Haywood, Mo Pete, Stackhouse, Wally World, McDyess, Marvin Williams and Tim Thomas. $227.62 left over.

In terms of players going out by round:

1. Garnett, Kobe, LeBron
2. D Howard, Kidd, Nash
3. Amare, Duncan, Arenas, Carmelo
4. Bosh, Yao, A Jefferson, B Wallace, D Williams
5. Marion, Dirk, Prince, T Parker, Hinrich
6. Chandler, Iguodala, Horford, Aldridge, R Hamilton
7. Gooden
8. Thornton, G Hill, Gasol, R Jefferson
9. Okafor, Durant, JRich

I think that B Wallace, Hinrich, Aldridge, Gooden, R Jefferson are good value picks so that would have been an option in drafting a few of those guys - we'll see how it turns out
 
28Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 18:27 		I just drafted. Spent $9.

Sellouts by round:
1: Garnett, Kobe, Lebron
2: Nash, Dwight Howard, Arenas, Dirk, Kidd
3: Duncan, Amare, Carmelo
4: Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Bosh, McGrady, Deron Williams, Ben Wallace
5: Camby, Aldridge, Chandler, Iguodala
6: Horford, Boozer, Deng, Prince
7: [nobody]
8: Wilcox, Grant Hill, Thornton
9: Hinrich, Alston, R. Jefferson, Gooden, Scola, Yao, Noah(!)
 
29Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 18:29 		Was in the same draft. Only bought 6 players, including Marvin Williams and M. Webster, otherwise a bunch of $1.00 guys.
 
30Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 18:45 		Per RotoHog rules:

Player Waiver Periods: Once a manager buys a player for their team, and starts the player in a game, the manager cannot sell that player until after a 2 day waiver period following the game started.

I interpret this as:

Buy Kobe Bryant, start him at 7:00 game on Monday. He locks.

Only after game time lock on Wednesday would I be able to sell him.

This could be problematic at the beginning of back-to-backs, but okay for, in the above example, a Monday game, off day Tuesday, game on Weds scenario.
 
31GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 20:08 		Wasn't going to draft, but did just sign up for the 8PM

Don't plan on spending much, but hopefully can make a few dollars before I finally get up in the morning.

Cliff
 
32tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 20:30 		Are there scoring restrictions as in the TSN game, where you have to have a full roster to score points. I suspect not, expecting more the yahoo model, but I couldn't seem to find that in the game rules. Haven't played any Rotohog games previously
 
33Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 20:32 		Nope. Don't need a full roser.
 
34GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 20:33 		No, you do not have to have a full roster.
You get 82 games per slot and you can pick and choose how to use them.

Cliff
 
35tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 20:37 		Thanks very much gents.
 
36GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 23:32 		Just finished the last draft.
$254.56 left

Sell Outs by Round
(1)Garnett, Bryant, Lebron, D Howard
(2)Kidd, Nash
(3)Duncan, Marion, Amare Stoud, Arenas, Carmelo, Dirk, D Williams, Iverson
(4)Yao, B Wallace, Igoudala, Bosh, J Smith, Al Jefferson
(5)Parker, Chandler, Camby
(6)Prince, Aldridge, Horford, Wilcox, Paul
(7)(Nobody)
(8)Boozer, R Jefferson, Gooden, McGrady
(9)Durant, Hinrich, Brand, Bynum
 
37tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sat, Oct 27, 2007, 23:39 		Drafted a team in the 11pm EST draft, I believe the last before the trading floor opens. I was looking at keying on players whose price could increase as the trading floor opens. In spite of having read posts earlier including Guru's post 18, I did draft Dwight Howard, if he sold out and there is further demand, he may increase in value, or alternatively if his maximum ownership is achieved, and any sells/buys drop the price, I'll lose on him. Hoping I don't lose $$$ on him, if I do I was warned.

After a couple of years I know what to expect on TSN Ultimate, this new game has its appeal partly due to the novelty of it.

On a side note, we obviously have some patrons here who are playing the game. With the concept of 1 team, multiple leagues for that team being in place, is there a league anyone has set up or is participating in that may be an interesting place to be for the season.
 
38Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 08:17 		First, "Does any body check the injury list moment".

Mike Bibby - Up .02 .05%

-Addicted--
 
39Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 08:23 		Brand up 17 cents.....I considered drafting him. Interesting.
 
40Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 08:46 		Man I missed the boat on drafting Employee #8 --- ahhhh the beauty of name recognition!!
 
41GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 10:12 		To the positive on all but two.

Just bought 3 more.
Up $5.01

Cliff
 
42Alex
      ID: 20357221
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 10:41 		Just hit $310. How's everyone doing?
 
43GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 10:57 		$307.53
 
44Alex
      ID: 27324224
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 11:08 		$313.00 now. But going to be away most of day, so I probably can't get out near peak on speculative cheapies (my whole team).
 
45Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 11:23 		Up 6.62,
But I've got a mixture of penny stocks and mid-range players < $60

Yesterday,
I drafted 4 players that sold out. Barring injury I'm sticking with them for the long term.

Of course 3 of them are losing money right now.
But once the players start playing they should be okay.

Is there a chance of a player being sold out today?

--Addicted--
 
46tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 11:33 		$308, I drafted 3 higher price players to start the season with, 2 of them are losing money. The rest were as Addicted described as "penny stocks", some of whom I'll likely trade for other bargains.

I think this will be a very interesting game. Any interest in setting up a league for those here in Rotoguru land?

 
47Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 11:37 		I'm interested.

--Addicted--
 
48 Headless Gunners
      ID: 19282419
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 11:43 		Once more there was only one way to go
wait until opening
draft quickly only players on upswing
worry about roster later
$322.61
 
49GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 12:27 		Now at $314.46

Made $2.22 off of Ratliff, one of my penny stocks.

So far, so good.
Probably won't own more than one or two when games begin.

Cliff
 
50Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 12:48 		$328.90

I drafted McCants, Stoudamire, Webster, Douby and Brewer. Picked up Walker, Evans, Ratliff, Armstrong, Howard, and Aldridge near the opening bell as they started to rise. Went back to bed at 9:00et (6:00am PT) and happily have done well since.
 
51tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 17:59 		Wow, as a first timer for a "Rotohog" game, this price movement is more than I expected. I guess I'll plan on assembling a team with a higher roster budget than first planned for. Should be able to pick better performing players than the original team based upon $300. Species, your roster value must be approaching $350.
 
52Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 19:09 		23ball: yeah, just checked for the first time in over 4 hours. Up to 348.62. I'd wager that Gunners is ahead of me though.
 
53Crunch Bunch
      ID: 10742520
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 19:12 		I'm at 326 - decided that with no 100K prize, I would sleep in instead of getting up at 5:00 a.m.
 
54Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 19:18 		If only had bought into employee number 8 a little earlier.

I'm up to $334.
 
55 Headless Gunners
      ID: 19282419
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 19:30 		$350.55
 
56tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 19:41 		I've surpassed Species RV ... from his 12:48 post. Just past $334. Among my drafted players were Howard and 3 others I thought would be on my roster to start the year. It's probably cost me $12-$15 by waiting until noon or so to realize the error and trade them (other than Howard). I suspect today may be the biggest price moving day, but looks like managers will be able to ultimately build rosters with $50-$60 players, and not need cheapies.
 
57Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 20:01 		tothreeball,
I suspect Tuesday and Wednesday will also be big price moving days, as managers start building their teams for real.

--Addicted--
 
58GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 20:03 		Also over $334

Don't forget the trade tax based on amount and that after 14 moves, it kicks in.
We saw this to be a real killer in football, and that was based on a flat rate $.50

Cliff
 
59tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 20:09 		Addicted, I agree with you. I imagine come Thursday, many managers will have enough of a budget to build a pretty solid team.

Goatlocker, I haven't played Rotohog games before, but I imagine, an occasional trade costing a few dollars won't be bad if roster values are over $400. I would think if there was a production reason to sell one player and buy another, the price swings between the players would probably cover the fees in any event.
 
60reebbertxx2001
      Sustainer
      ID: 561124720
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 20:13 		When does Toin begin losing all he has gained? I plan on selling tonight before I go to bed, as my internet access is limited at best at work. Anyone looking at Duncan/Parker to be big money gainers with the opening b2b?
 
61Alex
      ID: 27324224
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 22:13 		$351
 
62Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 13:47 		I emailed RotoHog about this issue in post 22, and got this response:
Basic rule is this: If you play a player on the day you buy him, you can't sell him until the market open two days later. If you do not play them you can sell them at any time. If you play him the next day, then the normal game lock applies. ie. you can sell until then next morning."
I assume he meant to say "you can't sell until the next morning" in that last sentence.

Based on this, the rule is more flexible than I originally thought. It sounds like, if you buy a player the day before his start, then there are no selling restrictions at all (other than you can't sell while currently in a game start lockout).

So, if there is a player you want to start tomorrow, if you own him (or buy him) today, then you can sell him on the morning following his start, or anytime thereafter.
 
63Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 14:20 		I did the same thing and got the same quote. Does that mean if I buy Kobe on Tuesday, play him Tuesday, that I can sell on Thursday when the market opens?

Definitely makes a difference when looking at back-to-backs vs. game-off-game scenarios.

I jettisoned just about my entire portfolio that I bought this morning at the bell. Everyone started bleeding so I took my profit and ran. Only 1 guy left on my roster. Why couldn't today work just like yesterday, when all of the guys at the top of the gainers list just KEPT GAINING all day? lol!
 
64GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 15:03 		Same as Species,
Dumped all but 2 and they'll probably go before too long.
Need to figure out who I plan on playing and when I need to buy them.

Cliff
 
65tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 15:33 		I am now holding 3 players, each who I think will gain value as the season tips off. Went to lunch today, and came back $7 down in roster value. Just an observation on trades and fees, the rules read fees kick in after 14 purchases (this does not appear to count drafted players as purchases). The fees are now material, ($.75 per buy or sell if you are over $350 roster value, $1 over $400). In the event as Species and I are, you are repopulating your roster, clear your players you are planning to sell before your 15th purchase and you'll save fees on those you are selling, if you are approaching 14 purchases (as I am).
 
66Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 16:25 		[63] I think if you buy Kobe on Tuesday and start him, then you can sell him at the Thursday opening. But if you buy him today and starthim tomorrow, you can jettison at Wednesday's opening.

So to the extent possible, it probably makes sense to buy players a day ahead of time. This way, if the player gets injured or otherwaise needs to be sold, he can be dumped the following morning.

Of course, this assumes that the emailed response is accurate. It does seem contrary to this statement in the rules: once you buy a player, if you start them in a game you will not be able to sell them until 2 days after the start. It sounds like the rule might actually be "once you buy a player, if you start them in a game you will not be able to sell them until 2 days after the purchase date.
 
67Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 17:13 		Guru #66 - I know. I thought the response was very poorly worded. I asked for a better clarification. If I don't get it quickly enough, I will have to make a call......ahhhhh the benefits of making personal connections.

23ball - yeah, I blew through my 14 and have been eating transaction fees. Sitting at 387-ish and have 3 guys on my roster I'm planning on using....picking them up now in case of injury to I can jettison if disaster strikes.
 
68Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 18:17 		I just checked and it looks like Dwight Howard is the first player to be sold out...

--Addicted--
 
69Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 18:20 		....and he's down nearly 5 bucks today! lol

Fascinating!
 
70Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 19:05 		Garnett OUT
Kenyon Martin (?!?) OUT
 
71Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 19:56 		Same as in football. People buying them as "late draftees" are selling them out, but those buys don't push up the price.

People who drafted them in the "true" drafts are selling them to duck losses or to make room for other players, pushing down the price.

No need to panic. If the other sports are any guide, they'll free up. Even Brady wasn't sold out this week in football.
 
72Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 19:58 		Kenyon Martin is discouraging, however. I draft him for $1, he only appreciates $4.87, and he's already out.

Here's the stunner: Elton Brand is OUT!
 
73 Pimpski
      ID: 559192919
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 21:22 		I don't understand how the sold-out concept works. Is there a limit as to how many teams can own the same player? That can't be it, because there's no way more teams own Brand than say Duncan.
 
74xpdurmind
      Sustainer
      ID: 319471922
      Mon, Oct 29, 2007, 21:51 		This looks like a time consuming game. I checked the trading floor last night around 6 PM PST only to see that McCants and Antoine Walker were the biggest gainers on the day. It didn't make sense to me until I read this article by Jon Loomer. I quote:

"The NBA Stock Exchange trading floor has only been open for six hours, and I have already changed my strategy. I immediately realized that now is not the time to hold onto players who are undervalued and under appreciated. Now is the time to scoop up the undervalued players that everyone is falling in love with. I have already given my team a face lift, and currently have the following:

PG - Jason Kidd
SG - Rashad McCants
G - Ronnie Brewer
SF - Josh Smith
PF - Tim Duncan
F - Andray Blatche
FC - Kevin Garnett
C - Theo Ratliff
UTL - Damon Stoudamire
Bench - Kenyon Martin
Bench - Reggie Evans
Bench - Antoine Walker "

Not surprising is the fact that that those 12 players were actually the highest gainers when I had checked!

Just an observation so that if you decide to play next year, you can just buy Jon loomer's recommendations on the first trading day.A sure fire way to make a quick $...
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 13:16 		Uh-oh. Somehow, my starters for tonight were all bumped into bench slots (without my doing it).

Better check your roster is youplan to start anyone tonight, and make sure yours didn't do it too.
 
76GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 14:07 		Ditto what Guru said.
Happened to me also.
Dang, need to figure this out everytime.

Cliff
 
77Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 14:15 		Did not happen to me. Strange.
 
78Crunch Bunch
      ID: 3136114
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 14:23 		My roster is ok - no issues with starters being moved to the bench
 
79Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 14:58 		I did have my roster page open, and it probably occurred during (or immediately after) one of the 15 minute periods when the market is closed.

I know this happened once to me during football season as well.

 
80Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 18:24 		Well looking at some of the price gainers I wish I would have gotten up this AM. Oh well.

Time to fess up your RV's: $398.63
 
81GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 18:31 		$355.32
And really didn't put much effort into it.
Probably could have made a bit more today if I would have worked it.

Cliff
 
82tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 19:17 		$370.97. I imagine there would be a number of managers over $400. I've certainly learned from some mistakes in building RV over the first few days. Really think this game will be fun, a combination of building RV like TSN and fixed position roster management like Yahoo.
 
83Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 20:21 		$370.22,
I was at 351 and change this morning.
I bought the top two gainers this morning but got out before 9AM. Didn't have time at work to keep up. So I made like $3.00.
Wish I'd of kept Sergio...

On a side note, concerning waiver rules:
The legend link on the trading floor
Seems to explain it best...
If you buy a player today and start them today,
they will have a "waiver lock" and you will not be
able to sell that until the market opens 2 days later and they clear waivers.
The player will have a "locked" icon with the day of the week that will be available for sale on the your Roster or Trading Floor.

I think the icon will make it pretty obvious.

--Addicted--
 
84Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 20:49 		$377. If I want to buy the early gainers, I have to be ready to go at 5am. Most of them seem to max out their value by about 7:30.

I haven't been up at 5am yet. I tried this morning, but slept thru the alarm, and was logged on by 6:30. Jason Hart, Quinton Ross, and Keith McLeod were three of the top gainers, so I bought in, and went back to bed for awhile. By the time I sold them around lunchtime, I had lost $5.70 ($4.50 in fees).

I'm interested to see what happens to Spurs and Blazers during the next market update. Duncan and Parker have both gone up and down slightly in price since they froze.
 
85Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 00:44 		After Rashad McCants made so much money on 10/28, and then lost a bunch of it on 10/29 ... I decided to sell Martell Webster (a draftee) at close last night after making $4.19 on him thus far.

Bad move. Webster up $7 right now.
 
86Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 04:59 		$374. Great Sunday, bad Monday, good Tuesday. If the extreme volatility kepps up, that's good for me...I can be online at 8am Eastern about half the time and almost always by 9.
 
87Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 08:46 		On Monday, I bought Parker, Duncan, Boozer, and D. Williams, and I started all 4 of them on Tuesday. This morning, I can sell Parker, but the other 3 are frozen until WED.

I wonder why that is?
 
88Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 08:56 		Same here Tosh, I bought Deron, TD and Boozer on 10/29, in that order but at different times of the day.

Deron ( who is sold out BTW ) is available to sell, but TD and Boozer are lock until " Wed " ( today obviously ). So I am wondering if it is tied in to the time you bought them? So a full 48 hour cycle, not the morning of the 2nd day.

 
89Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 09:02 		I bought Parker first, followed an hour or so later by Boozer, Williams, and then Duncan.

At midnight last night, after the close of the market, I had moved Parker to my bench, but the other 3 were still in starting slots.
 
90Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 09:04 		Ahhh, maybe that is the key. I moved Deron to the bench for today last night as well.
 
91Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 09:20 		If that's the distinction, it must be a glitch. In any event, something is a glitch.

Hopefully they get it resolved today.
 
92tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 09:53 		I had bought AK47 and Boozer on Monday, and noticed they are locked until Wednesday. It is Wednesday, so I was wondering as well if it a 48 hour lock. I imagine we'll know over the next day the way it works, but clearly having them on the roster the day before putting them in the starting lineup doesn't avoid them being locked.
 
93tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 09:58 		With the 2 day (or 48 hour) lock, I imagine a player like Scola who has lost some of the big gains made yesterday, will potentially drop substantially when that lock comes off.
 
94Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 10:14 		I emailed RotoHog this morning for an explanation, and they already replied that they are aware of the "problem" and are looking into it.
 
95Crunch Bunch
      ID: 3136114
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 14:21 		So I'm guessing that if you hold a player who is "out", you can't see that so it's like baseball? In football, they have the little "o" next to the players's name.

Since I'm not going to be around at the start of trading each day (5:00 a.m. PST), I'm going to have to anticipate who will rise the night before. I started Kirilenko (good) and Okur (horrible) last night and sold Okur first thing this morning. AK-47 looks like a keeper for me if can revert back to his glory years.
 
96tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 14:22 		My locks are now off of Boozer and Kirilenko. This coincides roughly with 48 hrs since I bought them. Could also be RotoHog has fixed the glitch.

As Guru outlined in 75, I also had today's starters all moved to the bench today. I noticed it happened during the noon trading floor market update after I clicked the "Update roster" button.
 
97Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 14:58 		I just received a reply from rotohog from my earlier email.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience this situation may have caused. The problem should be fixed now and you should be able to sell the players you purchased on Monday. Unfortunately, since everyone playing the game was affected by this, we cannot refund you the money you lost on those players today. The price drop you saw on him comes from the managers that either drafted that player, therefore the waiver-wire period had already passed or simply purchased the player on Monday or Tuesday, but did not start them. By not starting said player, they are able to sell them whenever they choose.

I still don't know why I was able to sell Parker, but not the other three. I lost a little over $7 on Boozer and Williams this morning.

 
98Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 15:06 		Yeowch - I was out of my office and even if I had wanted to sell D. Williams and Boozer (which I don't) I couldn't. Still, it's interesting that they saw such a drop. Why? Are people really going to rotate on a daily basis with these punitive transaction fees? If so, GOOD LUCK!
 
99GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 15:32 		I hope they do rotate daily.
They'll be gone fairly quick.
Was planning on keeping most of the group from yesterday for 5 to 7 days.
Need to go back and decide.
Also need to look at Okur and figure out if I wait or move him.

Cliff
 
100tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 15:34 		Boozer's drop is strange, but I'm more puzzled by Ronnie Brewer's drop in price from just under $14 at the open, to $13.30 now, given his production for the price. I suppose it may take time for the masses to seperate the hype from the real producers. Transaction fees and the player lock seem to make daily player rotations unpractical.
 
101Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 16:19 		Once everybody's TRX fee's start kicking in,
this madness will slow down (I Hope ).

If you continue to max out your starting roster everyday, you'll run into trouble soon.

As we used to say in TSN "It's a marathon, not a sprint".

I've lost at least $10.00 between Williams and Boozer, but now the guys who were losing money yesterday are making the money they lost back.
( Of course, they're playing today)

--Addicted--

 
102GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 17:21 		Addicted,
Same thing we saw in baseball.
So, if you are willing to sit through the drops on a Mon off day, you would make them back with the Thurs off game.

I'm sure there are still people that aren't feeling the trx fees yet and that you have hit it right on the head.

Cliff
 
103reebbertxx2001
      Sustainer
      ID: 561124720
      Wed, Oct 31, 2007, 20:50 		Looks like Diop and Haywood are both on the way up finally. I need to find a way to sell Duncan at 8:00 tomorrow or will eat huge losses.
 
104Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Thu, Nov 01, 2007, 05:18 		If you could pick up one player from PHX for their next 7-10 who would you pick up?

Marion / Nash / Amare?
I got killed yesterday with TO's ruining my RHP.
(Although I feel for the Caron Butler owners).

--Addicted--
 
105Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Thu, Nov 01, 2007, 17:38 		I went with Marion, who seems to be one of the top $$$ movers today. Of course with Nash and Amare being OUT every other time I checked, I guess I made the right choice.

--Addicted--
 
106Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Thu, Nov 01, 2007, 18:08 		Now that the transaction fees are up to $1.00 for me, I'll probably do less speculation and day-trading.

If I want to make any money in day-trading, I need to get up by 5am. I don't know how longer I'm willing to do that.
 
107Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Nov 01, 2007, 18:29 		I only bit that bullet Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, Tosh....hence why my RV stalled at just over the $400 mark. You're right - when you have 2 bucks in fees on the line, anything but a 5:00am juggernaut is just too risky.

Addicted - I have Marion and Nash.
 
108Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 11:04 		A few early observations:

1. It's going to be very difficult to track progress vs. the field early on. In baseball, the global standings indicated each team's relative pace for both GP and IP, making it easy to see who was poised to crash and burn, and who was being more selective. There are no such clues in the hoops standings, unless you click on each individual team link and add up the GP for each slot at the bottom of the page.

2. I do note, however that the top team has done very well, in spite of going with a completely filled roster. He's gotten 23 GP over 3 days, and averaged almost 30 pts/game.

3. That said, I don't think 30 pts/game will get it done. Last season, there were 35 NBA players who averaged 30 pts/game or better. The top 25 NBA players produced a collective average of 35 pts/game. So my early guess is that it will take at least 35/game to finish on top. On the other hand, only one player (Garnett) exceeded 40/g, so I doubt if it will take much more than 35.

4. With that in mind, I'm tracking my daily results (as I did in baseball). This is partly so that I can measure myself against several benchmarks (GP pace, average pts/g, etc.), and partly so that I can doublecheck the accuracy of RotoHog's work. After 3 days, I've got 10 GP, and 368 total pts, for an average of 36.8, which seems acceptable.

Actually, it's not that difficult to figure out your average, even if you aren't tracking things daily. You can find your total points on the Global League page, and you can add up your GP using the data at the bottom of your current roster page.

Anyone else care to share their early results?
 
109Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 11:08 		10 games, 316 points

Blah!
 
110Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 11:10 		I'm still trying to decide whether to go for monthly awards or full season performance. Leaning towards monthly - probably December. So I'm just trying to build up RV...I'm currently at $433.
 
111Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 11:14 		I guess I should also add that it's very difficult to manage a team with any quantitative rigor unless you take advantage of some of my statistical tools. The game site doesn't show pts/g for each player, nor does it provide fantasy point details (game-by-game) for any player. All you see is the game-by-game stats for each player (on the standard NBA.com player page), with no reference to fantasy points.

If you are planning to be competitive, make sure you take advantage!
 
112Crunch Bunch
      ID: 3136114
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 11:55 		8 games, 236 points. Average of 29.5 points

RV of $395
 
113Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:01 		I thought I remembered seeing some kind of games played limit per week (possibly just impacting the monthly contests). Was I just imagining that? I can't seem to find it anywhere in the rules now.
 
114GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:04 		Alex,
I think what you are thinking about is a RotoHog discussion on something else.

367.79 points
14 gp
26.27 point/game

$349.66

Need to relook things.

Cliff
 
115Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:06 		Also tracking on a daily basis to monitor average points per game. Currently only have 7 games and 268.56 points for a 38.36 pts/game average. I'm being very picky so far, but can't let my games played average be too low.

I need to be more active in making money. Only $407. It's just hard to make those $2 (in Tx fees) leaps of faith on 5 minutes (or less!) of market data at 5:00am.
 
116Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:28 		I'm only at $386, and have pretty much sworn off chasing the cheapie of the day - mostly because I want to use as much of my wealth as possible in my starting lineup, but partly because I don't want to be tethered to the computer all day in case the tide turns.

In fact, after drafting nine $1 players and buying one more cheapie at the opening bell on Sunday, I haven't speculated at all. My cheapest buy since then has been Kirilenko, at just under $40, and all of my other purchases have cost more than $50. And I've only made ten buys since Sunday morning.

I still think I'll be able to accumulate sufficient value to accomplish my objectives, even with this limited trading style.
 
117GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:35 		Of the 9 on my roster right now:

1 was bought 10/31
6 were boght 10/29
2 were drafted

Might have to change my thought process at some time, but am going to stick this out for right now.

Cliff
 
118Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:46 		I'm at 7 games and 31.9 points per game.
$433 (with $7 of fees yet to pay today)

I'm not sure what to think of a game where the 3rd highest money maker of the day so far retired on 9/26, and is now coaching Arkansas Baptist College. (In full disclosure, I made a net 12 cents on him before I was too embarrassed ... and sold).

The very first guy I drafted (Al Horford) is still on the team. All the other draftees were gone by last Wendnesday.
 
119Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 12:59 		I have had 66 players on my team thus far.

Drafted 9
on 10-28 - bought 8. Sold 5. Made $61.48.
On 10-29 - bought 13. Sold 17. Made $0.96.
On 10-30 - bought 7. Sold 9. Made $24.71
On 10-31 - bought 8. Sold 11. Made $1.98
On 11-1 - bought 12. Sold 8. Made $34.30
Today - bought 8. Sold 4. Making $11.28 before selling fees
 
120Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 13:03 		I'd guess that the Corliss Williamson run-up is a combo of collusion and rampant lemming behavior.

A few people got together to see if they could spark a run. As Tosh exemplifies, it worked.
 
121Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 14:35 		14 games, 379.81 points avg 27.12
$392.70
I've gone down about 7 dollars today...

Like GoatLocker, I can't seem to part with some of my team:
4 From the 27th
2 From the 28th
1 From the 29th
1 From the 31st
2 From the 1st

--Addicted--
 
122GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 16:06 		I set a strategy a few days ago, and I'm really kind of stuck with riding it out for right now.

I will be able to drop back and re-evaluate Sun / Mon.

Then I will go from there.

Cliff
 
123Headless Gunners
      ID: 19282419
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 16:27 		Salary $395.47
10 games 373.27 points 37.3 avg
Strategy - Only studs
Gotta set up in advance to beat the lock
back to back like Suns last 2 days a big help
 
124Tothreeball
      ID: 25109117
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 17:42 		$411.58
332.41 points in 9 games played.

Not chasing the cheapies daily, but have a few players I would consider undervalued on my bench. When they have a decent game, and their price runs, which I believe they eventually will, I'll sell.
 
125Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 18:26 		Also posted in the RotoHog baseball thread, regarding baseball Celebrity League autographed prizes:

FYI - I emailed RotoHog and was assured that they are working on the Celebrity League autographed prizes. I'll get an ETA next week....but they told me to rest assured that everyone that earned a prize will receive it and they asked for a little patience.

I'll stay on 'em.
 
126GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Nov 03, 2007, 02:13 		Kelenna Azubuike $6.31 46.41 points drafted for $1.00

Not a bad hold.

Cliff
 
127Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sat, Nov 03, 2007, 16:14 		Well, I hope that Mike James and Kelenna Azubuike make at least 50 more cents each today. I was not able to sell them before I hit the $450 barrier.

Transaction fees now $3 for me. I need to be extra selective on my purchases.
 
128Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Nov 03, 2007, 18:39 		If you're looking for sympathy, you can buzz off bro! lol

Ozzabocka (as Dave R calls "Azubuike" - lol) did earn me a right nice return so far today as one of the few "cheapies of the day" I have invested in lately.
 
129Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Nov 06, 2007, 19:00 		Update:

21 games, 39.43 average. $430 RV.
 
130Alex
      ID: 8718115
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 10:59 		I'm up to $472 RV, but am not using my games at all - targeting the December monthly contest. Its brutal making money once the $1.50 transaction fee kicks in at $450 RV.
 
131Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 11:35 		30 games, 34.6 average.

I've had a few disappointments - including 4 sub-20 games (from Duncan, Nash, Baron, and Kiri). I probably shouldn't have used Kiri.

I am up to around $425.

FWIW, if you were to be exactly on pace for GP, you'd have 32 games through last night. That takes into account not only calendar days, but also the number of NBA games scheduled each day.

 
132Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 11:42 		30 Games 35.17 average

$405 ( I'm poor ). Missed the boat on Dunleavy who is up nearly $12 today, but I don't feel. inclined to chase all these daily price gainers
 
133Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 12:12 		Up to 27 games now and with Paul and LeBron going off, bumped my average to 40.93. I recommend you all just give up now and not waste your time ;-)

I have exactly 3 games played at every position, and I knew I was behind pace....too conservative early on and was chasing too many cheapie trains. I'm at $437.42 this morning but only have $3.05 in the bank with everything else invested in starting players.....but LeBron has been worth every penny! But it definitely constricts me in chasing the stock of the day. Thankfully prudent stud management has allowed me to continue to have my portfolio appreciate.....just nowhere near Tosh or Alex levels :)
 
134tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 13:56 		28 games, 36.41 pt/game average

I'm carrying several bad games as well including Amare's 7 pointer. Team Value is $440.56

Following Guru's comments in post 108, I was targeting 35 pts/game for each roster spot. With the roster values higher than I expected, I suspect that closer to 40 pts/game may be necessary to be in the chase at the end.
 
135Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 14:35 		26 games. 35.6 average (includes klunkers from Iguodala (5.14), Kirilenko (14.76) and Baron Davis (18.36)).

$474 right now (with $3 of sells to go today). My high is $480.

The West Coast 5am market opening is just BRUTAL. If I'm not logged on time, I lose big. I slept through the alarm this morning, and didn't log on until 5:05. By that time, Yao Ming (my only sell) had lost $1.50, while gainers Dunleavy and Szczerbiak had already gone up more than $3.50 a piece. I totally missed the boat on Stojakovic today. By the time I was able to log back on at 10am, Dunleavy had already hit his high, and had dropped $3. So my net gain on Dunleavy today was $4.37 ... when I could have made $9-$10.

I almost bought Dunleavy last night, but find that my speculative buys only work out about 1/2 the time. With the $3 service charge, I should just be up at 5am, and buy the guys that rise early. Last night's sucky speculative buys are Jeff McInnis (gonna' lose $2 -$2.25), and Steve Blake (lost $2.44). Yesterday's speculative purchase was JR Smith (lost 1.93).

But this is a really cool game. I decided to not play SportingNews this year, and am very happy with the decision thus far.
 
136Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 17:22 		Unless the NBA undergoes a widespread stat stuffing year, there's no way that teams will be able to sustain 40/game. Last year, Garnett was the only player to exceed that level. So to maintain a team average at that level, you'd have to do some very judicious cherry picking from day-to-day.

I know that there are currently 9 players with averages of 40 or better. That seems unlikely to persist. And there are still only 17 players who are averaging 35 or better.

Last year, if you owned the top 9 players in pts/game for the entire season, and add in enough of the 10-ranked player to fill up the GP limit, you would have had an average of 38/game. So even that seems unrealistically high over the course of an entire season.
 
137tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 18:35 		Good point on the target averages. Unlike TSN where the weekly trade limit discourages game by game trading, here depending on roster values, game by game trading based on opponent may allow a mananger to pick players up for shorter terms depending on their "bank" and the effect of the transactions fees. I'm probably over thinking this, but that's the fun of it.
 
138Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 18:50 		lol I have no delusions of grandure that tell me I will continue to average 40/g, but it's a good start. My worst outings have been a Kidd clunker (which he followed up with a 3D) and one other sub-25 point game. Otherwise I have been blessed by plenty of 35's and several very big games.

I have not gotten to the point (yet) of analyzing particular matchups, but I assume I will as RV rises and I have the opportunity to be even pickier. Right now getting these 4 in 5's from studs to get up to pace is more important than seeking out a premium matchup.

I still think the original 35/g (ish) is the right number.
 
139Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 22:06 		Just an FYI,
I noticed that Rotohog / NBASE Trading Floor has plus signs on injured players now.
So keep an eye out for the bear market.

--Addicted--
 
140Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 22:19 		Just check the League standings:
I'm 93rd for November, and 154 for Global.

I can't tell what Species is, but I'm sure he's higher???

--Addicted--
 
141Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Nov 07, 2007, 22:45 		Addicted - nope. You'll see me plain as day (i.e. - no clandestine team name) on there when I move up. I am a little low on games so that's why you don't see me.
 
142Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 06:19 		42 games, 34.03 avg, +5 on position usage...
$437.54, up $40 since Monday.

One (maybe two) players starting today.

--Addicted--
 
143Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 18:06 		I really wish that I bought Al Harrington before I went back to sleep this morning. Up $13.19 today, and he keeps going up ... despite having the next five days off.
 
144Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Thu, Nov 08, 2007, 19:03 		Al just made more than a dollar in under one hour.
Currently at up $14.24 for the day.
This is crazy.


--Addicted--

 
145Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 09, 2007, 12:12 		Looks like a lot of the people who bought Harrington yesterday didn't start him. Those who did start him are getting burned today.
 
146Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sat, Nov 10, 2007, 16:43 		It's definitely getting tougher to make any money. Only 5 players made more than $3 yesterday, and only 6 players today.
 
147 cookie
      ID: 531025187
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 08:26 		Hey if i put a player in my team at say gaurd for example and he has a game that day but doesnt play in the game (e.g chris paul last night) does that count as a game used???
 
148GoatLocker
      Sustainer
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 12:05 		If I remember right from baseball, it shouldn't count as a game used.

Not sure yet with BB.

Cliff
 
149tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 14:13 		147 - I had Paul in my starting lineup last night and it didn't count as a game played for my team.
 
150Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 11:56 		Update time boys. I took a hit last night with Kobe and Baron.

75 games
2907.42 points
38.7656 average
Still muddling in RV mediocrity: $451.85
 
151Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:14 		I just surveyed the top 100 teams in the global standings and in each of the two celebrity leagues. Only 6 teams have averaged at least 35 pts/game so far, and all are behind pace:

Endangered Species 38.8 -11 (i.e., avg. is 38.8, 11 games behind pace)
Freakin's Fools 38.2 -6
Aristotle 36.5 -6
We Are Borg 36.2 -9
Suns#1 35.3 -8
Dynamo Moscow 35.0 -7

The best team that is not behind pace is Oszirules, who is exactly on pace (86 games) with an average of 34.8.
 
152Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:17 		As far as I know, there is no way to see the RV of other teams. I'm currently at $444. I got over $450 once briefly, but then sailed backward for a few days. I've pretty much abandoned "day trading", after getting burned a few times.

I think $450 will be a tough hurdle to exceed, as the fees are really difficult to overcome.
 
153Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:23 		86 games
2,934.89 points
34.12 average
$463.64

Funny thing is I just broke 452.00 Sat PM.
Sunday AM, I worried about the TRX fee, but sold 3 players and bought 4 players and I'm up to $463.64 today.

I'm trying to cut back on games. But most of my overages are in the C/FC and PG slots.

--Addicted--

 
154Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:23 		BTW, of the universe of teams I sampled (243 total teams, so there must be 43 teams in the global top 100 who are not in either celebrity league), only 31 are averaging 30 pts/g or better, broken down as follows:

6 teams at 35 pts/g or better
3 teams at 34-34.99 pts/g
3 teams at 33-33.99 pts/g
5 teams at 32-32.99 pts/g
4 teams at 31-31.99 pts/g
10 teams at 30-30.99 pts/g
 
155Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:27 		Addicted, I'm not seeing your team, so I assume you aren't in either of the celebrity leagues?
 
156Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:30 		I too have abandoned day trading - just don't have the stomach for it, and the 5:00am wake up call isn't fun either. Props to Tosh for continuing to have the focus to do so - at least more often than I do.

With schedule-based trade management (I guess those years of TSN have been good for something) I am okay at "treading water" at this $440-ish level, as I buy studs with good schedules and they will generally appreciate sufficiently to pay for the transaction fees.

I'll be taking advantage of some upcoming schedules to build up some games and narrow the game gap. I'm sure I'll fall closer to the 36 point range as I do this with some non-studs (albeit guys that are playing very well) on a purely temporary basis.
 
157tothreeball
      Dude
      ID: 09118139
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:49 		69 games (17 behind pace)
2,532.60 points
36.7 ppg
$471.97

With the likes of Kobe, Baron, Yao and even Lebron and KG having a subpar game here and there, my PPG has dropped down from over 38 recently. Still trying to target 35 ppg, but who knows. With a decent team value, I'll eventually be able to catch up on the pace, although I may be getting further behind than I should.

It seems many have abandoned the day trading, leaving many of the cheapie players with little value or upside. Aside from 8am swapping of the studs of the day, the Trading Floor frenzy seems to have died down some.
 
158Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 13:49 		#154,
Nope, just global league (109).

--Addicted--
 
159Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 14:09 		#156,
No more day trading, just calculated buys...
I picked up S. Jackson like 5 days before he started...
I'm not rotating studs daily. I'm trying to keep them through a good schedule, and maybe selling them a day early (i.e. sold Boozer yesterday).
I'm still looking at value players in the $15-$30 range, but they have to give me at least 1pt/$ or who have had a couple of good games.
I haven't been picking up the top studs (Garnett and James), rather trying to get the players in the low $60's and $70's. But yesterday I had extra money and LBJ wasn't sold out, so I bought early.

--Addicted--

 
160Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 15:04 		69 games
36.9 ppg
$493 (made $20.69 yesterday)

I started Biedrins & B. Davis yesterday, and that was only the 2nd and 3nd times a sub-$60 player made my starting lineup. I also caught Kobe and KG's poor games yesterday.

I only get up at 5am on the mornings that I need to sell someone. Otherwise, I have also mostly abandoned day-trading. It's much harder to know when a player will cover his fees. Fortunately, I had to sell Chris Paul yesterday, so I was able to buy into Turkoglu and Harrington.

I hit $473 on 11/8, and was still at $473 at the start of yesterday (peaked at $482 on 11/11). Looking at my non-stud day-trades since 11/8 I have made money on 8 players, and lost money on 9 players.

It's gonna' be fun catching up in games and going for a monthly prize.
 
161Addicted
      Dude
      ID: 4611592518
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 16:08 		Turkoglu really surprised me yesterday.
I expected increases in ORL and GSW players,
but I didn't see a $14.00 increase for Turkoglu!!!

That is the reason I've stopped day trading.
I always pick the wrong horse to ride.

Up to 466.35 in 2.5 hours.
It'll level out tomorrow.

--Addicted--