Forum: hoop
Page 13536
Subject: Free Agency 2010

  Posted by: Farn - Leader [451044109] Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 09:39
Time to get this thread open. The week is finally here.

I can only pray these guys all sign asap because I am not sure I can stomach too many more articles.

Predictions?
 
1Great One
      ID: 505322312
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 10:04 		Lets have a contest! a dozen guys who may be on different teams by the time the season starts.
Guess where they are headed and win a ticket to come watch me play softball in a local rec league. Priceless.

Lebron
D.Wade
Bosh
Joe Johnson
Carlos Boozer
Amare
Dirk
Ginobili
Camby
Shaq
David Lee
Rudy Gay

 
2blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 10:14 		Only because it's absolutely relevant - ESPN Free Agency Predictor Game

Group Name: Rotoguru
Password: bluehenrules
 
3RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 11:27 		I predict Camby will sign a 2 year contract with Portland...on April 20th, 2010.
 
4Great One
      ID: 505322312
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 11:37 		Signed up for ESPN
 
5Mike D
      ID: 6421228
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 18:52 		Is ESPN offering a ticket to come watch Great One play softball in a local rec league??
 
6CJ
      Leader
      ID: 499271021
      Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 02:31 		Ha Ha sure

I am all in for that !
 
7Great One
      ID: 505322312
      Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 09:42 		Usually I'm just the extra hitter too, so I can even come sit and hang out with you in a lawn chair between innings.

ESPN can't compete with that.

 
8CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 15:12 		Looks like Joe Johnston is going to be in ATL No surprise there....for him unlike the top guys Money matters....the rest will get their it is more of where they want to get the paycheck from.
I am now hearing more and more momentum for CLE to keep James....I personally say no way....if that was ever going to happen then they should have been clearing their cap space and bring in guys to play there.
 
9Great One
      ID: 3265018
      Thu, Jul 01, 2010, 15:13 		Just cause he signed, doesn't mean he's staying, does it? Some of these guys are gonna sign with the intention of sign & trade.
 
10CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 02:28 		Too Much money for JJ to give up to go anywhere else. He would forgo like 30 mil...I do see your point he could sign then they trade him with that money attached...but that would be crazy for the hawks to do that,
Some of these teams are going ot be left with no ne to get to fill the cap available....guys that hold out might get 3-4 times what they are worth..Take Hayward for example...if he waits it out and the bigs are gone..he could get sooo much more than he is worht
 
11CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 16:03 		Amare's headed to NY? WOW doesn't that take the big three now no way of going to NY. The way Bosh talks the three top FA are looking to land together....but not NY if Stoud goes there. And Lee more than likely gone now huh?
 
12WiddleAvi
      ID: 352232517
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 19:21 		How lame is this Lebron special he called for tomorrow ? Takes him a step down in my eyes. Anyway you have to figure it's between Miami, NY, or Chicago so he can team up with someone. Until today I figured he stays in Cleveland for the money. But now that Amare signs with NY, Booser with Chicago, & Wade/Bosh with Miami Lebron has to leave to one of those teams to be championship caliber, right ?
 
13Frick
      ID: 376078
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:17 		So if you look up Narcissism, does it now show a picture of Lebron?

With Wade and Bosh signing together in Miami, is Lebron going to get sign/get stuck on a team where he is alone? If that's the case, why would he leave money on the table and sign somewhere other than Cleveland. He can always demand a trade in a year or 2 when he has no help around him.
 
14WiddleAvi
      ID: 352232517
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:25 		Thats why I think he goes either to Miami to join Wade & Bosh or goes to Bulls to join Rose & Booser or NY to join Amare.
 
15Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 22:34 		One thing in Lebron's defense: He agreed for ESPN to do it under the condition that all advertising money be donated to his charitable organization.

With Bosh in Miami I'd think they get to move up in the Lebron standings. But I still think it'll be Cleveland. The hometown thing still pulls at him. And Cleveland can still offer him more money than anyone else.

Also, I think the Cavs were really smart in getting Byron Scott as coach.

Finally, no one knows more that Lebron than it was he, rather than his teammates, which let down Cleveland in the playoffs. If he'd been surrounded by chumps and played at super-Lebron levels I'd think he'd just as soon leave. But he knows that the Cavs did what they agreed to do in surrounding him with talent.
 
16Mike D
      ID: 35639722
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 23:39 		I'm hearing NY from my sources (nephew, lol)
 
17Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Wed, Jul 07, 2010, 23:56 		Here's another source Mike D:

Dudley says LeBron is NY bound!
 
18Mike D
      ID: 35639722
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 01:23 		Whoa, my nephew may really be in the know here!
 
19Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 01:30 		I think it is just New Yorkers assuming they will get whatever they want...

If LeBron is motivated by either money or championship aspirations, I would think the Knicks would be last on the list.
 
20RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 13:41 		OK...with LaBronathon ending tonight, where are we betting he's going?

Heres mine:

1.) Cleveland. Thats been my pick since day 1 (or atleast as far as i recall). Probably 60% solid for me.
2.) New Jersey. Solid yound nucleus, billionaire owner, Jay-Z and going to Brooklyn. 25% chance.
3.) Chicago. Solid young core. Actually consider the Boozer signing a negative. Wasn't one of the reasons Boozer left CLE because he didnt want to play 2nd fiddle to Bron? 10% chance here.
4.) New York. Legacy. D'Antoni. More caproom next year. 5% chance.

Where would I like him? Cleveland for a max deal with an opt out after 3 years. That buys time for NJ to move to Brooklyn (maybe...that deal seems to move as slow as an iceberg) and allows a full 10 years in CLE. If the management can't get its championship by then, then its not gonna happen. After 10 years, then a move to Brooklyn is due.

Otherwise, NY to see him kick lazyass Eddie Curry around for D'Antoni and Walsh.
 
21RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 13:46 		Oh man...totally forgot Miami...hmm. Doh!
 
22weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 16:20 		#1 Cleveland. Can you really see Lebron holding a 1 hour twist-the-knife-in-your-back-a-thon for his hometown fans?

#2 Miami. Big mistake if he goes this route. 3 Alpha males with the same type game will be a virtual soap opera NBA style. Let the finger pointing begin.

#3 Chicago. Really his best chance to win if he is serious about winning.

#4 New York. Cant see him dissing his hometown fans for a chance to keep rebuilding.

#5 Clippers. Young team that would contend for a title in a year or two.....assuming Sterling gets out of the way.
 
23RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 18:46 		Gees...I missed the Travis Outlaw 5/35 signing...uhhh. I'm dropping NJ to #5 and replacing with Miami at #2.

What was that signing???
 
24astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 21:31 		I like how he said 'south beach' first... :)
 
25DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 21:34 		Worst. Special. Ever.
 
26money4later
      ID: 2111213116
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 21:55 		With Jim Gray questioning Lebron, no amount of entertainment would have made that a good show. Ugh
 
27weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 21:55 		I guess Cleveland doesnt rock.

My prediction: No titles for the South Beach 3.
 
28beebop
      ID: 451113150
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 22:07 		Any idea how they are going to fill out their roster now? Sounds like they will need alot of cheap players to fill out the roster.

What players would be a good compliment to those 3?

Has anyone seen Patty Mills play? I have seen him play a few times, but only for Australia. He could be a good fit as a role player, he can shoot the 3 well. Get him to spot up in the corner. He can also handle the ball and distribute well too. I just dont know how he handled the NBA with Portland as i didnt get to see any of those games.
 
29Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 22:33 		I have no problem with LeBron going to Miami but what was the purpose of shoving it in the face of all the Clevelanders and Ohioans that have supported him forever? Has a knife ever been stabbed deeper in any back of any group of loyal fans as this? Did LeBron out-Modell Art Modell?

FWIW, I can't blame ESPN for jumping on this opportunity to broadcast this because it is sporting news after all. Didn't need the whole hour+ of course but it was definitely a ratings hog I'd bet.
 
30Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 22:36 		And while I'm thinking about it, did LeBron have some sort of not-so-cryptic Lindsay Lohan-type message on his fingernails (whatever is left of them) for all his soon to be shrinking fan club?
 
31Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 23:20 		I simply don't understand how anyone could charge LeBron with stabbing Clevelanders in the back. The guy left money on the table in order to improve his chances at winning a title. That's intelligent.

To include his name with Art Model, a guy who robbed a city of its team, no way.

The broadcast was way too long, should have been a half hour.

I really REALLY wish he would have taken the opportunity to thank Curt Flood and Marvin Miller for their work in creating the idea of free agency.

I think LeBron's decision will be remembered very favorably by people (outside of Cleveland) in the future. I think it is great that three players discussed playing together and honoring that pact. I think he will have a blast and they will definitely win at least one ring, maybe not in 2010-11, but soon. Those three are better than KG-Pierce-Allen in 2008, much better. All they need is some Will Perdue stiff in the middle and a decent outside threat to sign for the veteran minimum and that team is a juggernaut. The rest of the East is screwed.

And I also disagree with everyone thinking that he would have made the Bulls a better team than Miami. Noah is just an uglier version of Andersen Varijao.
 
32Mike D
      ID: 12635822
      Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 23:35 		Agreed on Jim Gray. There may have been a time when he's style was dramatic. Now, it's kinda boring. weykool---if Boston could win a title with their guys, Miami won't? Lay some money down on that.

Possible additions to Miami are a long list----BECAUSE there will be players accepting lower money, or shorter deals, for a chance to win a title. Restricted free agents will be tougher, because offers can be matched.

Haslem, unrestricted, could re-sign. Veteran, role player. JJ Redick, though he's only 26 and restricted. Shaq is unrestricted. Matt Barnes, unrestricted. Allen Iverson.

Unrestricted guys like Joe Smith. Tony Allen. Michael Finley. Nate Robinson. Larry Hughes. Theo Ratliff. Brad Miller. Ronald Murray. Z Ilgauskas. Tim Thomas. Ben Wallace. Earl Watson. Luther Head. Rasual Butler. Craig Smith. Derek Fisher. Adam Morrison. Rafer Alston. Q Rich. Josh Boone. J Magloire. Chris Quinn. Rodney Carney. Juwan Howard. Keith Bogans. Matt Bonner. Kyle Korver. Randy Foye. Kwame Brown.
 
33Mike D
      Leader
      ID: 041831612
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 00:37 		And they just lost another player.

Heat ship Beasley to Timberwolves for draft pick
 
34RecycledSpinalFluid
      ID: 544201619
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 00:56 		Post 20 is a prime example of why I don't gamble. Sheesh.

Gonna be interesting who the rest of that roster is. Sure hope Adam Morrison signs with them. Two rings and counting...more than Wade/Bosh/James combined! :)

They need to get the "Fab 5" signed. Jalen Rose, Chris Weber, Juwan Howard...and the two other guys.

I can see Rafer doing it. Older vets like that. Harder seeing the younger guys. No chance on Barnes who went into FA saying he needs to get paid.
 
35Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 01:18 		the Miami Unsound Machine won't win any titles, and i wouldn't be stunned if Wade, James, and Bosh aren't even playing together in 3 seasons.

teams like this rarely work out. Michael Jordan didn't become a champion until he was surrounded by strong role players - some of whom became better players because of him.

i don't think LeBron is that kind of leader. i don't think he has the ability to make the players around him better. he's a damned great athlete - i just don't think he's a champion.

 
36weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 02:43 		Mike:

The difference between Boston and the South Beach Trio is Boston has 3 different type players that compliment each other.
Ray Allen is a spot up shooter and plays best without the ball.
Pierce and KG can play just as well without the ball as they can with the ball.
They can both post up or shoot the mid range jumper.
Wade, Bosh, and Lebron are very similar and they each need the ball to play their game.
Last I checked the NBA is only allowing one ball in the game at a time.

The reason it is stabbing the Cleveland fans in the back is he didn't need to do an hour show to break news that could have been handled with a 1 minute statement.
I have no problem with him leaving Cleveland.
He has been the face of the franchise and has given them far more than they have given him.
I have a problem in the WAY he left.
Rubbing salt in the wound like he did lacked class.
 
37Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 05:07 		I agree, except He has been the face of the franchise and has given them far more than they have given him.

Cleveland built their entire team around him, and helped make him a superstar.
 
38weykool
      Leader
      ID: 41750315
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 07:06 		Gimme a break.
Built what team around him?
Shaq?
Jamison?
Verejao?
Lebron and as many scrubs as we can get doesnt qualify as "building a team around Lebron".
Lebron would have been a superstar wherever he played.
 
39Frick
      ID: 1362797
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 08:27 		It will be interesting to see what happens in Miami. Bill Simmons had a good column yesterday that hit on some of the points mentioned above. Who's the leader of this team? Wade or Lebron? It isn't Bosh, who has never been past the first round of the play-offs, or even into the sweet 16s in college.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out with guys willing to take minimums, there is a really large chance their will be a lock out next summer. Are many players, with anything left in the tank, going to be willing to take a minimum deal when plenty of teams have lots of cap space left over? Do you take the minimum or a 3-5 year deal at 4-5M per?

While Lebron and Bosh have healthy careers, Wade has a history of injuries. What happens to this team if any of the 3 miss any significant time to injury?

 
41Dave R
      SuperDude
      ID: 3010361110
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 08:58 		I think Cavs owner, Dan Gilbert is a little bitter.

Letter
 
42deejay
      ID: 851297
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 09:15 		Oh the drama...
I thought he wanted to be a billionaire? Well that wont happen now.
Plus why a Show of an hour to rub it in Cleveland's face.
That is not smart.

Finding a C might get fun for them though since RuPaul doesn't want to play Center.
Well there is Kwame.
 
43Building 7
      Leader
      ID: 171572711
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 09:22 		Don't they make money for the playoffs. The farther they go, the more they make. No one would really be making the minimum in Miami. I don't know how the playoff money compares to the league minimum, though.

That Cleveland hatred thing was all overblown. They found one idiot to light a $20 Lebron shirt on fire, probably staged.
 
44Frick
      ID: 1362797
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 10:33 		I doubt that the play-off money compares to league minimum. And really doesn't compare to the league minimum, I think I heard the minimum for a 10-year vet is 1.3M. So if you're a 10-year vet, are you going to to Miami for 1-year minimum contract and a chance at a ring, or to the clippers for 9M over 3 years and the chance to lose 50+ games.

I doubt very many of these guys are going to leave that kind of money on the table, especially with a lock-out looming. To quote Patrick Ewing "We might make a lot of money but, we also spend a lot of money."

Antoine Walker made 108M over his career, including 8.8M in 2009. And he still managed to spend enough to file bankruptcy this year with assets of 3M and debts of 12M. Sorry, but it is going to be a lot tough for Miami to find even replacement level players to round out their team.

And are Bosh and Wade both getting the extra year on their contracts? I have a hard time seeing James being happy if he is getting less money than either of them. I wonder if they can keep their egos in check long enough to even sign the original contracts.
 
45Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 11:56 		No matter what, LeBron left money on the table when he left Cleveland. Because he was Cleveland's player, they were able to offer him more money than any other team.
 
46Frick
      ID: 1362797
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 13:22 		How much did he really leave on the table?

Depending on what happens, he might be able to sign another long-term deal when this one expires. He'll only be 31, getting another 4-5 year deals seems fairly likely. I doubt if it will be for substantially less than the 6th year of Bosh or Wade's deals. He might actually make more over his career (salary only) with this deal. Now, that 6th year isn't guaranteed, and there is a lot to be said for that.

I got a laugh today reading about D'Brickshaw Ferguson's new deal. His agent reported it as a 5 year 50M deal. In reality it is far less and could be as little as a 1 year 5M deal. 5 years/50M sounds great for the agent looking to land more clients, the reality of that deal is much, much worse for the player.
 
47Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 13:31 		Cavs could offer about $1.5 million/year more than any other team. So for a 3 year deal that is $4.5 million he's walking away from.

I thought he'd sign for three years at the maximum amount and put additional pressure on Cleveland to get more talent in (through whatever means they could).

Of course, without LeBron the Cavs would not have brought in Shaq or Jamison, so it is hard to say what they could have done.

Now, of course, the Cavs have a ton of cap room so it'll be interesting to see who they go after.
 
48Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 16:13 		No matter what, LeBron left money on the table when he left Cleveland.

i wouldn't be so sure of that. it likely depends on the salary differential.

he pays almost 6 percent state income tax in Ohio. In Florida, he pays nothing.

 
49Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 16:21 		Heh. Good point. Of course, expenses are higher in Miami.

The exact amounts are to be determined based on the next CBA, but Cleveland was able to offer a little over 10% of an increase over his last salary. All other teams were limited to a little over 6% (providing they have cap room).

In addition, Cleveland was able to offer a longer term contract (6 years max vs 5 years).
 
50Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 16:07 		Cavs don't get left empty handed--they get a handful of draft picks and a cap exemption of $16 million

Time to start making some lemonade...
 
51Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 18:27 		Of course, expenses are higher in Miami.

not nearly as much as you'd expect. homeprices are within 10K of each other, and things like energy costs, doctor visits, and food tend to be more expensive in Cleveland.
 
52barilko6
      ID: 47613108
      Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 18:32 		According to reports Lebron left $15 million on the table.
 
53Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Jul 10, 2010, 19:01 		#51: That's a wash for someone like LeBron. Entertainment costs are way higher in Miami.
 
54CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 09:15 		52#
Over 6 years...I really had to give this input here.....These guys in their money world...really does this really make a dent in their finances? I mean C'mon James has to have thought "that is chunk change to what I will make in winning over the years versus staying in Cleveland and Not winning"
Whaaaaa Whaaaaa I think the money is just a cover for what a stink this all has been. These guys have Known they were joining in Miami for sometime. Hardly any comments through all of this from James about Cleveland and staying there. I remember Pat Riley making statements about Not worried about Bosh and Wade playing around in Chi Town......He was not even worried....cause he knew he was already getting these three. So James really is at fault for not just telling Cleveland ALOT sooner he was leaning leaving.
 
55Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 09:39 		I heard that he had made the decision weeks ago, but still went through the charade of taking more offers and so on. He should have quietly told the Cleveland owner, at the very least.

I think he can count on a sharp drop in his jersey sales among Cleveland fans with the move, however...
 
56barilko6
      ID: 47613108
      Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 13:12 		re: 54 I totally agree that the amount James left on the table is probably the equivalent of $100 to me, but there were a number of posts in this thread citing incorrect figures, so I just posted the actual number.
 
57CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 14:11 		55 I am with you.....but this will all blow over at some point and a championship will greatly diminish that....but again he could have told Cleveland and they could have gone after a few players...now who do they have and they held out for James ACING like he was actually leaning toward CLE ? ? ? Who will really know but for me I think this guy played so bad in a few games int eh playoffs....As if he was laying off...Even Barkley said this is weird as James did not even have any passion to try in that game against Boston....so as bad as Owner Gilbert said things....Some of it might be true as this all unfolds.
Either way all if for a frenzy of a summer of NBA...ha ha ha It is almost more frenzy in the off season than it is when they are playing games. In the end I do not see them winning a ring for years.....they do nto have enough Cap space...real simple. Get Bosh in Foul trouble and the rest of the league scrambles to sign all of the big men left to sign...leaving a major Hole for Miami...Bosh can not do it all by himself and he is not a get down and dirty big man doing all of the hard work like guys JNoah in Chi town. Maybe they get a Ben Wallace? better sign all shooters and big men they can....I guess I did hear one argument of getting NON-NBA guys that are shooters and re-bounders...lol I can not see this being better than Boston, Chicago, Orlando, Haws, and LA.
 
58Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 14:16 		Some believe that they all had a pact to play together since the Olympics in 2008. I wonder what James would have done if Cleveland had won a championship this past year.
 
59CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 09:38 		That is why he played like crap in playoffs....Can not leave clevland if they win a championship.....you think it is bad now...LOL
 
60Great One
      ID: 3265018
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 09:48 		I've heard it the other way, at least if he won then people would feel like he completed his job there and now could move on.

Thats what my friend who is a cleveland sports fan told me.

 
61CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 10:58 		You know I got thinking back to this whole Salary Sacrifice. With all of the talk of who the Heat need to get...Shaq, Miller, Stackhouse, Juan Howard...all of these guys are going to have to play around 75% less than if they went else where.....ha ha ha Really who will be making the salary sacrifices...The Trio really did not leave much left on the books to get other guys...I am confused at how they are going to fill it out.
 
62CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:11 		I understand the rules but how do you prove it. I am sure they and possibly many others in past have small talked about joining forces. NBA has some real funny Shhh Shhh rules Like Ilgauskas coming back to Cleveland after the trade to Washington...ha ha ha
Cleveland and Toronto
Cuban still bitter for losing after a 2 game lead in Finals?
 
63Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:18 		Nate Silver estimates LeBron will lose $150 million, in the end

If he doesn't win multiple championships in Miami, he's likely to lost a lot more than that.
 
64CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:21 		60
I can see the thought of that view...but to leave a team after winning the MVP ...now take it a step closer...He left why? To win a championship....LOL so I guess he would have to change why he left then huh? He has known he was leaving to me there is no doubt. They should not have talked about how much they are friends...cause you will not convince me they(Friends) have not talked about this for sometime. Even if it over lunch and someone says WOW it woudl be great to all be on the same team. League has some Shady rules.
 
65CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:26 		63
I agree with parts of the story, but remember his reputation now will not be near what it is after opening day and he is playing again. People will move on....and right now Yes Reputation is taking a hit but even as the heat WIN games as I am sure they do...this will all be in the past and he will be on the endorsements High. I did like reading how Jordan woudl be worth double James was last year...WOW and we never called him the king huh?
 
66Great One
      ID: 3265018
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:27 		But to me, its like - who cares? Why can't a trio of guys want to play together and want to have fun and dominate? Good for them.
 
67CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:29 		After just drafted....didn't James get a 100 Million deal with Nike...HA HA HA I am nto buying he loses that much money.
Bottom line these guys needed to take more of a salary pay cut to help get other guys at their playing worth salaries. I mean they are going to ask Shaq to play for what 1.5 Mil. What would a Ben Wallace get?
 
68CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 11:30 		66 I agree.....and why can't they talk about it all they want and especially in the privacy of their home. But league says NO they can not have those talks before July 1ST. I think that is so laughable.
 
69Great One
      ID: 3265018
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 12:27 		Yeah, what are they gonna do - track all their emails and texts and phone conversations?! lol...
 
70CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 15:06 		Exactly and that is why Neither CLE or TOR are going to do anything about it. But I can say this for sure....much talk and traction on this one guys....
Wade wants us to get it straight...LOL
LINK
Read the article too.....really just shows how many levels this NBA rule is a joke...Guys should and can talk all they want."I know the Cavs have thought this was in the works for a long time," an NBA general manager said.

But you won't hear this GM offering sympathy or expressing outrage.

"Indignation? Really?" he said. "Do teams actually talk to agents before July 1? I'm shocked. It's Claude Rains, shocked that gambling is going on in Rick's Café."

"We know that's going on. It's reality. And we're all big boys. If you have an attractive wife, guys are gonna be hitting on her. It comes with the territory."

Is anyone naive enough to think that players don't share mutual daydreams about joining forces? I once even acted as a middleman, taking a note from one player to another, requesting that Player B go to the management to request a trade to get Player A. When players talk do you think they're brainstorming ways to plug the oil leak in the Gulf? Not exactly. They're tabulating how many games they could win if they played together.

"That's going on every day," the GM said. "Players are always talking to each other. That's nothing new."

Same with the notion that some combination of Wade, James and Bosh would get together this summer. It probably was more a matter of where than if and when. Two years ago, someone who was with the 2008 Olympic team told me he expected James and Wade to play together in New York for Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni, who was an assistant on the Olympic squad staff.

If D'Antoni was the one who gave them that idea, then that would be tampering. Same thing if Miami Heat owner Mickey Arison's son Nick, who was an intern on the 2006 World Championship the three all played on, was busy laying groundwork. Absent any evidence that either of those things occurred, you're just going to have to accept that three players just took control of the steering wheel."
 
71Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 15:11 		It was always clear that Wade and James were good friends, and it was no secret that Wade was talking with James about joining him in Miami.

Honestly I don't think it is a big deal--friends talking to each other about playing on the same team. No big deal.
 
72Great One
      ID: 3265018
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 15:22 		Yeah, why would you not want to play (and travel, and train etc) with people you enjoy working with? I know even in the business world it makes it bearable. And at this point, they really don't care about a couple million more bucks. They won't even notice it.
 
73weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 16:00 		I dont think they should allow players to talk about joining forces unless it is while one player is taking a shower after the game.

To me this is one of those rules that is needed but shouldnt be enforced....kinda like office gambling.
Officially illegal but unless you open up a store front or advertise to the public to handle bets everyone turns a blind eye.
 
74skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Mon, Jul 12, 2010, 16:55 		So looking at the fantasy implications for the Miami Big 3, it knocks each of them down a couple pegs in my book. My top 7 as of now would be CP3, Durant, LBJ, Dirk, Wade, Kobe, and Deron W. After that I'd be considering Gasol, Granger, Brook Lopez, and Josh Smith to round out the top 10. Bosh drops to late teens/early 20s I think after guys like Carmelo, G Wallace, and B Roy.

I expect Wade and LBJs minutes to go up a bit with Bosh staying about the same. I can see 40+ mins from the big 2 and 36-38 from Bosh. It would also be wise to let Wade and LBJ rest separately so that each can be the man for 8+ mins a game without sharing. Miami will most likely start Bosh at PF with J. Anthony or a FA center like Big Z starting. Bosh will play some C during the game with LBJ moving to the 4 to create post up opps at times. Teams will have to double so with Bosh's range this will really open up the game for them.

If Mike Miller does in fact sign, then he bodes well to be the 6th man and have Chalmers start at pg. For stretches of the game Wade will run the point and Miller will provide the firepower off the bench and stretch the floor. Haslem looks to re-sign with the Heat now, so that means they could fill out the roster with a few other role players and be set. Jason Williams would be smart to sign a 2 year deal at the vet's min to be the backup pg, and rookies like Pittman, Varnado and Butler plus 2nd year man Beverley will likely round out the roster. I don't see another big name vet coming until later in the season when teams start dumping players. They could use a defensive guy like Raja Bell who would also give them added long range shooting, but can they get him to sign as a FA for around vet min as well?
 
75skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 15:33 		Great movement the last few days after the Lebron-athon was finally over. Dampier to Charlotte for Chandler, A. Jefferson to Utah, Felton signs with NY, Harrington to Denver, the botched Calderon to Charlotte trade, the maybe still on Turkoglu to Phoenix deal for Barbosa. whew!
 
76skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 15:45 		Plus smaller deals like Fisher staying in LA, Childress to PHO, Ridnour to Minn, Livingston in Charlotte, Tony Allen to Memphis, Kleiza to TOR.

Lowry looks to get CLE deal matched to stay in Houston, Wesley Matthews might get matched to stay in Utah. Lots of rumors still abound like Shaq going to Hawks for Marvin Williams. And Matt Barnes is shopping a one our live broadcast called "Who Cares" so he can announce which championship caliber team he will join.

In totally insignificant news, the Landlord will start collecting rent in Denver and Adam Morrison is looking for another bench chair to occupy with the hopes of seeing court time. Think they should give him a little stand next to the bench to showcase his two championship rings!
 
77Mike D
      ID: 306441417
      Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 18:44 		LMAO!!

"They can't take away those rings"!

Great analysis in post 74. I agree with most of it, as usual. I think Gasol may be high though, and I wonder why Amare slid under your radar. He's back, baby, and will have freedom to do whatever he wants. He's no Matt Barnes though. ;)

Love the Harrington move for real life Denver. Lowry has big bucks coming and I think he has a better chance to earn them in Cleveland so I hope Houston does not match. Matthews?? Insane dollars for him at this point but these types of moves are based on potential. So who knows.
 
78CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 22:49 		77
I am wondering about the value guys like Z might have this year as his stock will be low but with the way increased min in south Beach...might be a nice low income player to round out the roster and especially at center.
Also Miller might be great hitting wide open 3's and Stack possibly going to heat? I heard T-Mac Wants to go but not sure they want him there. Does Shaq want to go there or does LBJ think too much star power?
 
79Mike D
      ID: 306441417
      Wed, Jul 14, 2010, 23:50 		I don't think at this point in his career Z will see more than 24-26 minutes or so a game. I think those minutes will be productive and not unlike recent year averages. Last year was a bit of an exception.

But Bosh can slide to center, especially late in games. Haslem is a huge piece to this. He plays PF and C like Bosh. And then they will have another big or two for spot minutes (Anthony? Magloire?). Nutshell----could be like Z's seasons of 2006-2008.

Miller---after how terrible he was last year, even in Washington, I will believe it when I see it. He had lots of opportunities and didn't do much. Same with the year before in Minnesota.

Stack? Not much interest from a fantasy standpoint. T-Mac? Who is that (lol)? I thought Shaq might fit there. The web sources all are talking Atlanta. I think it is safe to say if Shaq surfaces it will be on a playoff type team.
 
80skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 10:54 		I can't see Z averaging more than 8 and 8 and that would be a great season if he can do it with all the touches the Super Friends will need. Plus, it seems now Juwan Howard is headed to South Beach to back up Bosh, Haslem and Z plus the qualifying offer to J. Anthony is still there. Their frontcourt is looking solid, so need to figure out which veteran pgs and swing players they can sign now with JWill, Barnes and Stackhouse all on the radar. I don't think Shaq will end up in Miami, although that was my first thought. Dallas was where I expected him to go, but Atlanta may be the only playoff team actually looking at him now. Sad...

Harrington spurned Dallas to go to Denver, which means he is more interested in playing a big role there especially early in the season than 6th man type mins for a contender. I still think Denver is lacking what is needed to get through the 2nd rd in the West. Dallas still has a solid team and there is talk of having Marion, Terry and Chandler all on the 2nd unit which is a nice luxury.

MikeD, it's tough to figure out where I'd go after the top 7 so Gasol was thrown in there since he was in the 12-15 range and is consistent. Amare is still not a proven 1st rounder in my mind, and without the security of Father Nash will struggle at times. Felton is a push it quick type pg too though, so if Amare runs the court still he will get easy dunks. Of course, I got burned with him as a 1st rounder two years ago, so that may play into me dropping him to around 14-15.
 
81skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 11:04 		So to throw some numbers out there for my Heat predictions, here we go. Should be fun to discuss.

DWade 39 mpg, 24ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.6 apg
LBJ 40mpg, 25.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 7.1 apg
Bosh 36mpg, 17.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.4 apg
M. Miller 26 mpg, 10.4 ppg, 4.8rpg, 4.2 apg

Miller will be better as a 4th option then he was as a sidekick to Agent Gunslinger and Jamison, however he will not have a great fantasy season due to limited touches. He will still shoot over 50% and 40% respectivey and will likely get 2+ 3pg with all the space he should have, so 6th - 7th round is where I'd look for him.
 
82Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 13:49 		Miller is the odd man out in that situation. Hell, anyone not named James, Wade, or Bosh is the odd man out.

Great move by Z to go down there--of the current crop, he's about the only new guy who knows how to team play after he was a go-to guy himself.
 
83dpr
      ID: 552411820
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 13:59 		Miller really is the only shooter though. Wade and James while both having good shots, have their game based on driving to the hoop. It seems that this should leave miller open for some open shots. While the ball wont be in his hands as much, he should face many open shots having his 3s and percentages go up.

In terms of guys going at the back of the first round I think you have to consider both Lee and Curry. They returned top 10 value last year though obviously come with their risks as they play in gsw/not as much track record/new system.
 
84skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 14:36 		Lee and Curry are nice fantasy players, but the Don Nelson effect means you never know what will happen. Curry and Ellis with launch a bunch of shots without Maggette, Randolph, Azubuike and Morrow around, so Lee should have a great chance at leading the league in rebounding. Will he get enough low post touches though? 16 and 12 is what I expect this year which knocks him to late 2nd or early 3rd rounder for me.

Some "experts" have Curry ranked in 1st round and as high as #4. He certainly has potential to put up big numbers but that is a stretch. I have him in mid 2nd round, but would I really take him over proven guys like Carmelo, Lopez, or Gasol? I'd even consider Tyreke Evans, Nash and Ellis along with Curry all around the 17-20 spots.
 
85Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 14:43 		The system is everything, as you point out skinneej. But Lee chipped in 3.5 assist/gm, and added high FG% to the mix. I think he goes mid 2nd round at the latest.

I think, given his lack of real defense, the GS run-and-gun system would make his numbers even better across the board.
 
86skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 14:49 		Agreed, but Nelson's system doesn't usually award the big man. The last low post player to average more than 15 ppg under him was Al Harrington in 06-07 and he is considered more of a swing player like Maggette was last couple years. Lee will run the floor well, and get hustle points and rebs off 2nd chances, but he will not have the ball in his hand as much as he did in NY where he was the only option for most of the season. I think his assist go down some since Ellis and Curry will always have the ball in their hands. However, I expect him to go a little early in drafts so it will be interesting!
 
87dpr
      ID: 552411820
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 15:33 		What posts players have played in GS? Can't think of any who really should have been scorers. Even if his scoring goes down a bit, and therefore his effect on FG% it seems he should be able to retain the rest of his value to keep him in discussion for around the turn.

One thing benefitting both of these guys is that GS is too invested in them for them to be susceptible to Nelsons whims and falling out of favor. They are going to get there minutes. For Curry, once he was solified in the rotation he provided top of the first round value so while the risk seems to great to put him there, the value at the end of the round seems too great. You think he will regress substantially next year? I can't really see Evans matching Curry's value unless he significantly improves, and he jsut has too many holes as a fantasy guard (no 3 mainly to do that). Last year evans only really beat curry in points and rebounding by a little bit while Curry was significantly better at 3s and percentages. If you look at last 3 months, Curry even matches in those categories.
 
88skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 16:16 		Yes, Curry's Post ASB numbers were phenomenal and top 10 worthy. That being said, I would still not take him over proven players until mid 2nd round at the earliest. But that is just me and I draft on risk-adverse players in the first several rounds. There are huge rewards potentially for managers grabbing him earlier than that, but to me there are risks to owning him.
 
89Mike D
      ID: 306441417
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 18:31 		I guess 6th or 7th round might be okay for Miller, I just doubt I'll be the one taking him so he can stand around and watch the game (while on the court).
 
90Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 17:47 		Dude wearing LeBron Miami Heat jersey to an Indians game gets booted.

Even the Yankees fans were booing the guy.
 
91Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 19:18 		Shaq signs with the Celtics.
 
92reebbertxx
      Dude
      ID: 561124720
      Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 22:13 		Probably one of the last Shaq fans out there but I love this signing. How bad does Shaq want to stick it to Kobe,Wade, and Bron all at the same time. This will be an enjoyable season regardless of the outcome.
 
93CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Thu, Aug 05, 2010, 08:40 		Amazing FA Season I can ever remember. The best teams Got BETTER and teams that barely made the playoffs got A LOT better (Mia, Chi) Mil, Hou, Atl, NY, GS I think all got better. Atl might be the same actually, but in the end the NBA has a furry of feeling going into the anticipated opening night.
 
94Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 22:08 		Cavs were one of the best teams, and they got worse.

Meanwhile, LeBron gets booed after missing shots at Cedar Point.
 
95Mike D
      ID: 447451216
      Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 00:00 		No one is safe in the video age.
 
96CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 01:03 		It does nto give direct details to what was charged to whom...but as it reads...seems they were High! How can or will this affect MIA? Okay it does say arrested for Possession.
link
 
97CJ
      ID: 41513021
      Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 15:07 		I guess we saw this one coming huh? I was interested in hearing NO name in possible places to go, but sounds like Paul is going to meet up with Melo somewhere.

Melo on the Move ! ! !