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| Posted by: Bean
- [12552510] Mon, Oct 24, 2022, 13:36
Constitution
I Site / Stat Source / League Fees
All game, roster and scoring rules will be governed by Yahoo. There is no fee for using Yahoo.
II Draft
The Supplemental Draft consists of a slow draft and held on the Draftime.com website. Time limits will be three hours for individual picks and 8 hours cumulative clock. You may draft until your picks run out or you have reached twelve (12) players. The clock will be stopped from midnight to 8 AM ET but picks may be made during that time. If you time out, you will be skipped and may select at any time. If you have been skipped and have not made up that pick and it becomes your turn again, you will be skipped for that pick as well. If you leave a Q and that person is available to post your pick, you will not be charged any time on your cumulative clock.
The draft order will be reverse of last year's regular season finish and it will NOT snake. Only players currently in the NBA database are eligible to be drafted. Waivers Priority will begin in the same order as the basic draft order (lottery excluded). Please note: The bottom 14 teams will be in the lottery similar to the actual NBA draft. Top three picks for next year will be selected via lottery. 4th-14th picks will be selected based on inverse order of standings.
III League Settings:
Draft Type: Offline Draft and E-mail draft
Max Teams: 20
Scoring Type: Rotisserie
Max Moves: No maximum
Max Trades: No maximum
Trade Review: League Votes (7 needed to veto)
Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules
Max Games Played: 720 (enforced by position)
Roster Positions: G, G, F, F, C, Util, Util, Util, BN, BN, BN, BN, IL (a 2nd IL slot will be added for the 2023-24 season and beyond)
Stat Categories: FG%, FT%, 3PTM, PTS, OREB, REB, AST, ST, BLK
IV Minimum Games Played / Penalties
A team must accumulate a minimum of 656 GP (82 GP/pos) over the course of a season. For each 8 games of shortfall (1 GP/pos), a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-8 games of shortfall will receive one demerit, 9-16 will receive 2 demerits, etc.
If a team finishes in the money for prize pool purposes (ranked 1-6), then demerits will be ignored.
For lottery teams, the following penalties will be applied to every pick in the next year's supplement draft:
If a team accumulates more than 10 demerits, then it will be removed from the lottery and assigned the 14th pick in all rounds (i.e., behind all lottery teams, but ahead of any prize pool teams.)
For teams with less than 10 demerits, that team is pushed forward one place in the supplemental draft rankings for each demerit. For example, if a team finishes in last place (20th) and has 5 demerits, then that team will be treated in the draft rankings as though it finished in 15th place (and the teams actually finishing in places 16-20 will each move down one place.)
If more than one lottery team has a demerit, then the lottery rankings will be successively applied starting with the worst finisher and then moving up to the next worst finisher, etc.
Note: While the maximum number of games is measured on a GP/pos (enforced by the ESPN site), the minimum number of games is NOT. For minimum games, all measurements are based on total games played without regard for position.
V Trades
All trades during the season must be submitted via the website's offer trade feature to the league for review. If there is a draft pick it needs to be posted in our thread at rotoguru.com and needs to be confirmed by both parties. You might want to rationalize your trade as it takes just 7 members to reject the trade. You have one day to reject it so please check the site at LEAST once per day (many will have the email feature that emails all accepted trades). Remember with a Keeper league there may be draft picks involved so take the time to check those before rejecting it. Please only reject a trade based on the trade and not the teams involved. A trade by its very nature should help both teams either now, the future or both. All off-season/preseason trades will be governed by a commish.
VI Keepers
Returning owners will have a deadline to declare what players from their team they wish to keep. Each owner may keep up to 6.
You may keep less than six. You may trade keepers after you have declared, but you may not go over six until all 20 teams have officially declared at the Keeper deadline. At that point you may go up to 12 players.
If you keep less than six, the only way you can add a sixth keeper is via trade. You may not drop a player until after the draft is complete.
If you do not name your Keepers by the deadline, the commish(s) will choose those for you and they will be final. If you post your Keepers after the deadline but before the commish posts, your Keepers will be honored. Typically, the commish(s) will start figuring out uncommitted Keepers as soon as the deadline has passed.
All un-kept players will go into the draft. A player MUST be in the NBA database in order to be kept.
The only off-season transactions that will be allowed are trades. No free agents may be picked up after the end of the season. Trades of a player for a draft pick are allowed.
VII Prizes
A fine plaque will be engraved and shipped to the winner courtesy of the previous year's winner. The trophy will be yours to proudly display with your other cherished mementos for 1 year. It will be the winner's responsibility to engrave it and ship it to the winner. There will be an added nominal fee to help cover expenses related to the engraving and shipping of the plaque.
A separate cash prize pool has also been established. It is strictly voluntary. Only those who participate will be eligible for this prize. $15 USD entry must be paid by the season opener. The exact method of prize distribution will vary from year to year depending on participation. We focus payouts so it will NOT be winner take all. Six owners will have a chance to win something. Prize pool funds are due by Opening Night.
If any of the non-participants qualify, the prizes will be reallocated by the commissioners. Managers will move up payout position(s) and any remaining funds will go into the trophy fund.
Treasurer will announce payouts and non-participants.
VIII Owners
As commissioners, we reserve the right NOT to extend an invitation to or remove any owner for any reason. Primary reason for being excluded would be abusive behavior (beyond friendly trash talk, harassment), purposeful rules violations (i.e. colluding on a trade), inactivity (i.e. leaving injured players in as starters repeatedly), unresponsive to other owners or commish(s), missing deadlines (i.e. keepers, draft picks, etc.). If an owner is NOT invited back next year. A new owner will be recruited to take over the vacated team in its exact state.
IX 2023 Draft Pick Trades:
# Date - Sends - Round - For - Round
1 2022-10-06 Dave R 1 WWCBD 4
X League Champions:
2003 Peter N
2004 A Perfect 10
2005 Twarpy
2006 RecycledSpinalFluid
2007 beastiemiked
2008 beastiemiked
2009 Ref
2010 Pete N.
2011 Pacers Rule
2012 beastiemiked
2013 Great One
2014 WG
2015 Species
2016 Pete N.
2017 RecycledSpinalFluid
2018 RecycledSpinalFluid
2019 RecycledSpinalFluid
2020 RecycledSpinalFluid
2021 WG
2022 skinneej |
| | | 1 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Oct 24, 2022, 16:17
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Thanks Bean, looks great!
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| | | 2 | GO
ID: 288332716
Fri, Oct 28, 2022, 17:29
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Anyone looking to deal? I feel i need another guard.. perhaps for Wood or Collins? Could pair up with Simmons who at least is alive again and should continue to improve. He's a force in a rebounding league getting big man numbers from PG.
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| | | 3 | Fosten
ID: 10031913
Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 14:40
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Are there any more details to the Fox/Cunningham trade? It didn't get posted here.
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| | | 4 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 15:03
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Nope just straight up. I'm trading 4 years of youth in the deal to try and keep healthy players at the moment. Definitely not a deal I would have considered if Cade wasn't injured and likely to miss an extended time now. As the #1 overall pick last year that just turned 21, he was already slightly ahead in his 2nd year than where Fox was in his year 2, so Duff is collecting a nice group of 23 and under stars. In the end, I thought it was a fair offer given the injury situation in the near term and decided to accept it and roll the dice. Now just need Fox to stay healthy.
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| | | 5 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 15:07
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I'll add some details... good trade!
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| | | 6 | ttucowboy
ID: 5010352115
Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 16:35
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Looking to move guard stats for big stats. Nobody untouchable, let me know if interested!
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| | | 7 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 10:10
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Are there picks involved with this Irving for Capela trade?
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| | | 8 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 4510181818
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 10:55
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No, just player for player. I need to balance out this bigs heavy roster. Now, hopefully Kyrie can actually appear in 40-50 of the remaining 60+ games. History probably says no, but we’ll see.
I’m not sure how a locker room with Giannis and Kyrie will mesh.
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| | | 9 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 11:18
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I'm not sure how anyone sees Capela as equal to irving. I won't be voting in favor of this trade. If successful, grats on the sell high.
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| | | 10 | ttucowboy
ID: 5010352115
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 11:44
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Guess I need to defend myself here. Kyrie is the better asset “when he’s on the court.” It’s the “when he’s on the court” part that is dicey. He could retire tomorrow and I wouldn’t be surprised. Next level headcase. Simmons is also eating into his assists upside. Capela is finally healthy and has added value here with the OREB category. Plus, I’m weak on big stats.
I polled several people, one in this league but others from other leagues I’m in, before accepting this trade and had 2 votes Kyrie, 2 votes Capela, and 2 votes toss up…which pretty much sums up my thoughts on it.
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| | | 11 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 19:21
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Perception vs Production.
The idea of "sell high" is a pretty uninformed one. Capela is producing at (or perhaps slightly under) his career numbers. Go ahead, go look it up. I'll wait here and patiently hum the theme to Jeopardy. (do de do do do de do dit di dunt dunt dunt dunt dunt bom bom). OK glad we all agree these are just his normal studly numbers. He is always elite FG%, OReb and Reb and damn near that with blocks. His FT% sucks, but shoots so little its close to negligible. Needless to say I love overlooked dudes like him (see Jrue Holiday for another example). His player rank is always 20-40.
Kyrie is perception. His "averages" look awesome. His totals are not, due to averaging playing in only 2/3 of possible games (55/82) over his career. I'm pretty sure G20 works on totals, not averages.
Why do I want Kyrie? I'm hoping he has the bulk of his missed games out of the way, but we all know better, as hes a total flake job.
Will be pretty funny if this is the league's first vetoed trade (that I can remember).
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| | | 12 | Skinneej
ID: 710162420
Thu, Nov 24, 2022, 21:17
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Agreed, often the best ability is availability. This was a solid trade for both teams who are currently middle of the pack trying to get better, and this will likely help them move up. Looking at seasonal average ranks as well as season totals I think shows this is pretty even and who know what happens from here.
In a dynasty league like ours, player age and years played make a difference and Irving is 2 years older and has played 1 year longer. Plus, as some one said above, Irving is a head case and who knows how long he will play or what else might happen to cause him to miss games. Not a player I’d personally want to bother with myself.
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| | | 13 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 12:52
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I have had Capela in other leagues, patted myself on the back for noticing his subtle value and discounting hi low FT% too. I thought Yahoo had undervalued him pre-season with his rankings as well.
We can talk all day about Capela's missed games due to injury and Kyrie's missed games due to insanity, but just remember that when your starter misses a game in Rotisserie sports, you get to start someone in his place, and that person will deliver something.
One thing you cannot argue is that Capela has a higher ceiling than Irving. When he is out there and playing, Kyrie is one of the best players in the league, I dont think anyone would argue against that unless than just like to argue. Meanwhile, all you can say about Capela, is that he is under rated.
Only wish I knew that Kyrie, with all his warts, was going to go for so little. Grats to you both for getting what you wanted. Still voting against the trade.
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| | | 14 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 379401317
Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 15:55
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Selective quoting: "One thing you cannot argue is that Capela has a higher ceiling than Irving. When he is out there and playing". Change that period to a comma and I agree 100%. It's just that last part is fully documented for his career, pros and college, for how much to expect from him. Higher ceiling, with a trapdoor floor.
"going to go for so little"...that's funny. Like Capela is a pair of used socks, gifted at Christmas. Great thing about this game, as we all know, is we value players differently...especially when they are our own.
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| | | 16 | ttucowboy
ID: 5010352115
Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 21:50
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Bean obviously hasn’t had the “pleasure” of having Kyrie in a keeper league.
Nobody is arguing who the better asset is when on the court but to act as if the “on the court” part is not a factor is rather rose-colored glasses naive. Capela also has additional value in this league in particular.
I’d be shocked if anyone else vetoed it as that’s a very short-sighted stance.
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| | | 17 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 4510181818
Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 22:13
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HA and of course, on cue, Capela is out …with “dental pain”??? More like “we’re playing Houston so we can test guys” pain.
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| | | 18 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 09:21
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Given the choice, I'd rather have Capella to Irving today, this season and and future seasons in this format.
We don't veto trades just because one player may be slightly better. Its only collusion or an absolutely absurd trade like Luka for my 9 year old. Not our job to be judging if someone made a "bad" trade. And this trade is nowhere remotely in the "bad trade" realm... its reshuffling of assets and likely will benefit both sides.
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| | | 19 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 20:17
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And we also let everyone decide for themselves how much better one player is than another, nobody dictates that, right?
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| | | 20 | GO
ID: 34025146
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 21:03
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Correct, which is why we don't vote against trades just cause we like one side a little better than the other.
We let the teams involved make those decisions. Thats why they were invited into this league. Run your team how you see fit.
Only role in trade review should be to confirm there is no collusion. And if there were ever a hint of collusion anyway we'd all boot the person before trade even processed.
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| | | 21 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 21:30
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Clearly you missed my point.
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| | | 22 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 21:52
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Read Paragraph V above, there is nothing mentioned about collusion. I'll enforce the rules but not someone's opinion of what the rules ought to be. If you want to change the rules, then offer the change, then put it to a vote.
Nobody offered any rationale for the trade. I wanted to hear it.
I said in #19 above "we also let everyone decide for themselves how much better one player is than another, nobody dictates that, right?" What I was talking about was the 18 other owners' right to decide for themselves whether or not a trade was "fair" and whether or not it should be rejected.
In a league like this, everyone knows that collusion is not acceptable. They also know it is impossible to prove. Like I said before, the trade veto thing is not about collusion.
As commissioner, I only worry that trades don't terribly disrupt parity because they are lopsided. If only we could get people who are trading top fifty players to put them on the block before trading them. They'd get better deals and the final outcome would be far less controversial.
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| | | 23 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 22:54
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I just responded to post 6 "guard stats for big stats, love long walks on the hardcourt" with an offer with a note (paraphrasing) saying "not sure its good for you or if its good for me"...I'm not a big high pressure sales guy...
I agree, we all should vote up or down (or accept that no vote is an up). Hell, I'd have been fine if voted down. Surprised AF if it was, but fine. And since it wasn't...I'm also fine.
Next time I'll put my Top 50 player (i.e. Capela) on the trade block. Not sure how many actually use it, but its like posting stuff on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. More options/eyeballs the better.
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| | | 24 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 23:11
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I would love if people posted on the block, but players on the block can inherently have lower value then if they organically came up in a trade. It goes from "I know you want to get rid of this guy" to "oh, I might have just got a player they weren't planning on shopping". I don't think it's anyone's responsibility to do any favors to other owners that aren't putting in the legwork themselves, but odds are Kyrie *may* have gotten a better return.
I'm very curious to hear what someone else would have offered for Kyrie now :)
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| | | 25 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 23:51
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Yeah, wasn't talking about the formal trade block thing in Yahoo. Almost nobody uses that or pays attention to it. Was thinking about, "I got this player I am considering trading for XXX; I've already gotten one offer. All other offers are welcome, here's what I am looking for, will make my choice in a week." Pete kinda did that, but didn't name a specific player.
I get it, when two guys start negotiating, they begin to forget that there may be others out there, and just push forward with the deal. It's kinda like the "closer" salesman who just wants ink on the contract before you leave the building. You don't want the negotiation to drag out forever, and you don't want to lose a deal you worked so hard to negotiate.
Frankly I don't know how to fix this with rules. You see it in every league, just think we all should be mindful of it before we announce our deals is all.
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| | | 26 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Sat, Dec 03, 2022, 14:28
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not every player needs to be on the open market. sometimes, you get the deal you want, and don't want to dicker around with nonsense of seeing who can one up somebody else.
i've always loathed the entire premise that every player needs to be on the open market.
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| | | 27 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 18:14
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Weekend Over having a fire sale. Trading away two top ten players in consecutive days for a bunch of stuff, much of which isn't keeper worthy.
I was ready to look the other way with the Tatum deal, it was possibly equitable even if it diluted keepers, which is something you should think hard on before you ever do it. But Donovan Mitchell for a bunch of guys who arguably are not even in the top 100 (Poole #150; Walker #140; Jackson #186; Jones #157)? What does it gain you when you have already mailed it in for the season?
Am I the ONLY one who thinks this is just plain nuts?
Anybody else got top 50 players they want to give away? Send me an e-mail if you do.
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| | | 28 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 18:51
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Anyone who is an expert or has amazingly accurate rankings feel free to share. Or at bare minimum help a brother out with proper draft pick compensation.
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| | | 29 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 19:37
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"Am I the ONLY one who thinks this is just plain nuts?"
No, they're both massive fire sales. Tatum should have taken a massive haul to pry away. The Mitchell trade is a classic 4 dimes for a dollar.
If you were serious, I like Matt Lawson's site, here are his dynasty ranking in category leagues:
https://fbi-basketball.com/dynasty-ranks-categories
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| | | 30 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 20:16
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WWC - thanks will check out.
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| | | 31 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 14:09
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Definitely deals I'm not doing. Tatum entering the peak of his powers in the league for a few distressed assets? I really hope those guys turn it around (or in Collins' case gets traded).
The Mitchell-Poole thing is just...odd. Poole may turn into "Mitchell Light" in a few seasons (or a few Curry injuries...), but rest are close to redraft guys (love Herb Jones if he develops a shot...but too many cooks on that team already).
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| | | 32 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 17:24
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Agree with RSF and it's funny, I was looking for a word or phrase to describe Simmons and Collins and "distressed assets" is a good one. Certainly not pieces I'd trade a 24 year old top 10 stud for even with a #1 pick thrown in (which will be later first round and much less valuable). But objectively, I still think it is a trade that meets a fair trade criteria IMHO in a dynasty league like this. I hope it works out for all parties.
The second trade was initially more of a head scratcher for me as well. Mitchell is a very solid dynasty asset just hitting his prime and can be considered top 15 in most formats. For me he's closer to the 20-25 range in this league with the 2 rebounding categories. I do think Poole is a quality dynasty asset that is 3 years younger, but I'm not sure he will ever crack the top 30 even if he is a full time starter. However, in a small sample size, his starting splits in 7 games this year are not that far off from Mitchell. So based on that, I decided it was not egregious enough for me to personally veto it.
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| | | 33 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 22:03
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Just to put a bow on all of this. The verdict is in on both of these trades. The Tatum trade passed and the Mitchell trade failed. The process worked as intended.
There was some discussion between the trade partners about cancelling either or both of the trades, but I did not interpret any of it to be a definitive bilateral request. If I misinterpreted any of it, please let me know and I can cancel the Tatum trade as well.
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| | | 34 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 15:47
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I second fbi-basketball as a great resource, along with hashtag sports.
sorry i missed the above banter about trades. seems like fun :D
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| | | 35 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 17028517
Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 18:28
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Was the right “Smith Jr” dropped in that last transaction? That seems a bit wonked.
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| | | 36 | GO
ID: 288332716
Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 09:05
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I checked in, copied you.
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| | | 37 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Fri, Jan 06, 2023, 10:24
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<35> Rare to give up on a highly touted rookie in the first year of ownership. Sent PT (aka twolves) an e-mail via Yahoo UI. Basically saying the same.
If he gets back to me today, will fix it, unless its what he intended.
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| | | 38 | WG
ID: 89402220
Sun, Jan 08, 2023, 15:27
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My 2023-2 otb for oreb/reb guy.
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| | | 39 | KnicksFan
ID: 130561011
Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 12:56
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Trade:
WG gets Draymond Green and KF 2023 6th rounder
KF gets Trey Murphy and WG 2023 4th rounder
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| | | 40 | WG
ID: 89402220
Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 13:29
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Confirmed
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| | | 41 | WG
ID: 89402220
Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 13:31
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From before:
WG gets Kevon Looney and Tosh 2023-6
Tosh gets Jaxson Hayes and WG 2023-1
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| | | 42 | Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Tue, Jan 10, 2023, 14:45
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Confirmed
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| | | 43 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 22:11
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Looking for a 3pt specialist? Max Strus and Tim Hardaway are your answer. Just looking for draft capital. Inquire within.
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| | | 44 | WG
ID: 89402220
Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 11:26
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Herbert Jones otb for an older pts/3pt guy or reb/oreb guy. Jones 24yr, injuries this year but finished ranked 48 overall last year.
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| | | 45 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 11:54
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Would like to move Adams, Conley, Lowry for draft picks. Let me know.
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| | | 46 | WG
ID: 89402220
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 00:17
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Kevin Porter, Jr. otb... 22yr, ranked 51 overall on the year.
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| | | 47 | WG
ID: 89402220
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 18:02
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TRADE
Bean gets Kevin Porter, Jr., Montrezl Harrell, WG 2023-5
WG gets Mason Plumlee, Harrison Barnes, Bean 2023-6
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| | | 48 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 18:05
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confirmed
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| | | 49 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 20:11
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Already processed but wasn't posted here yet:
WWCBD gets Mo Bamba, TTU 2nd rounder '23
TTU gets: Gary Trent, WWCBD 6th rounder '23
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| | | 50 | ttucowboy
ID: 500482219
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 20:54
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Is there a penalty for teams benching some of their top players? If not, there should be. Outside of the fact that it’s a direct shot at the integrity of the league, it’s also really poor fantasy management etiquette. This league should be above that type of nonsense.
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| | | 51 | ttucowboy
ID: 500482219
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 20:54
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Post 49 confirmed
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| | | 52 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 23:33
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<50> We have no formal rule. All we have is a minimum GP rule, that many insist is too demanding with all of our injuries. Anything else would be labor intensive. So, let your conscience be your guide.
I can tell you that sometimes people simply make mistakes. I missed a game for Vucevich recently, for example. Though I am certainly not tanking, and was disappointed that I missed that.
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| | | 53 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 08:05
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Is there a penalty for teams benching some of their top players? If not, there should be. Outside of the fact that it’s a direct shot at the integrity of the league, it’s also really poor fantasy management etiquette. This league should be above that type of nonsense.
as previously stated, accidents happen.
but if it happens repeatedly and / or is clearly intentional, i don't think it needs a rule - that person is removed from the league at the end of the season.
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| | | 54 | ttucowboy
ID: 500482219
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 08:14
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<52> Thank goodness for the min rule. I think it is a necessary guard rail. I’m glad it’s in place.
I wasn’t referring to a Vuc type situation. I’ve noticed keeper type players are being left on the bench for extended periods of time. As someone who has no incentive to move up the standings right now and make my draft position odds worse, I can still guarantee as long as I’m breathing I will hit the Min GP Requirements and have my best players in the starting lineup. That, unfortunately, isn’t what I’ve observed across the board.
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| | | 55 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 11:01
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FWIW this has been done for several years and one of the reasons the minimum GP was put into place along with the demerit system. This is no different IMO than the teams in recent years that hit their GP min and then bench all their players the remaining games. We can either raise the GP limit further, or just know that fantasy managers are going to do what the bad NBA teams have also been doing for years.
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| | | 56 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 12:36
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Another option for combatting tanking is to do away with reverse order of finish drafts, and make them random instead. That kinda destroys parity though. No perfect solution I am afraid. People are going to do what they do.
I always tell my brother, who bitches about refs in every sport. "When everyone is cheating all the time, you can't have enough refs, and the game is already constantly paused for review and rule enforcement. It becomes unwatchable at some point."
Something similar could be said about law enforcement, tax evasion, litigation and fraud, waste and abuse. There is corruption everywhere.
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| | | 57 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 12:51
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Hehe,
Forms of getting people to do what's right even when nobody is looking:
Santa Clause's naughty and nice list
"This is going to go on your permanent record" threat at school
An ominpresent god in every religion
Brain wash everyone to have guilt trips
Brain wash everyone to be snitches
Law enforcement everywhere is deciding that people just dont fall for this anymore. They decided if they can't do what's right when nobody is looking, then we'll mount cameras everywhere. Oh, and you gotta love the Chinese.
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| | | 58 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 12:54
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Why can't we all just get along?
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| | | 59 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 13:13
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I'll raise my hand on this one, as I have been having a "tank season" and ensuring I've hit my game mins while also angling to improve my draft odds. I wasn't aware of any written/unwritten rule regarding who I was required to start, but if that is the expectation I can certainly abide. My assumption was the minimums were the walls I had to work within and the rest was my discretion.
Seems like a slippery slope, would a team attempting to slide down from 6 --> 7 for the lottery potential be in the same boat? I might need an unwritten rule list :)
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| | | 60 | ttucowboy
ID: 500482219
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 13:38
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<59> I appreciate you raising your hand here because you were the team I was referring to. I didn’t think it was an unwritten rule, more of a common sense / decency rule but I certainly understand your approach. Those of us not in contention this year are trying to massage a balance of maintaining integrity for those competing, along with the league as a whole, while also positioning ourselves as best as possible for a loaded draft headlined by Wembanyama. This year’s title race will likely go down to the wire. Every stat counts.
Probably no perfect solution. I’ll reiterate though that I’m glad we at least have the min GP requirements in place.
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| | | 61 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 13:43
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As it stands there are no official written or unwritten rules on "tanking" in this league other than the GP limits. So if anything is added that is enforceable it would have to be for next year and beyond.
It's been noted before in previous years that certain teams were not always playing their best players every night, and of course hitting the game limits and benching all players is another play on that too. But with this being a dynasty league and many teams dealing with injuries to key players/keepers, it's hard to find a solution that works for everyone. At least it's been very rare for the lowest ranked teams to get one of the top 2 draft spots in recent years, so the lottery has helped some there.
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| | | 62 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 13:57
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Sounds good, I'll avoid benching barring a full lineup situation. Good to know. Fantasy ethics are always an interesting convo haha.
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| | | 63 | WG
ID: 89402220
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 14:21
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I kind of like Bean's idea of randomness for draft picks, at least at the very top end, and maybe for all non-prize money teams, with maybe a provision that you can't fall too far below your finish; say, 3 spots?
Or would it be too extreme to reward the best non-prize money finisher with the greatest odds in the lottery to encourage everyone to keep trying all year? Perhaps, but personally I also don't think the disparity in talent is as great in G20 Hoops as it is in G20 Football or Baseball; looking over the teams nearly all have solid keepers IMO and I don't think a race to the top instead of the bottom would cause some teams to forever remain at the bottom. Might have some jockeying between 5/6 and 7, true, but probably still a better league overall with most teams trying all year?
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| | | 64 | ttucowboy
ID: 500482219
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 14:30
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<62> To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting pinwheel through your entire roster of players until you’ve maxed out GP. I was referring to OG Anunoby, Jaren Jackson and Fred VanVleet being what appeared to be (and now confirmed by you — thanks again for taking ownership) purposely benched on days they had games and were healthy.
Definitely an interesting convo!
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| | | 65 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 15:34
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Seems to me a way around this involves the random lottery mentioned above. Random 1st round only for non-cashing teams and reverse order for the rest of the rounds. Of course, the suggestion is purely self-serving since I will always put my best out there. I definitely understand the desire to raise up the weaker rosters through the draft. This year is a little different since there is a clear prize at the top of the draft with Wemby and Scoot. With a likely finish in the 9 - 12 range, my odds aren't very good. Not really sweating it.
On a separate note, anyone needing 3 pointers interested in Klay? Would like a big and/or draft capital in return. Please don't ask for LaMelo or Scottie, lol.
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| | | 66 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 15:51
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Maybe two lotteries? Odd-round lotto where 20th gets the odds to win and it scales up to 7th, and even-round lotto where 7th gets the odds to win and it scales down to 20th. And re-pull it every round.
This way if bottom teams get hot and face the decision to tank or not tank it doesn't burn them as well if they only make a run up to like 8th place.
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| | | 67 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 19:52
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May...have a stay in the hospital and you miss all the action.
I look at this (and many NBA teams) as either to win one of two things:
The Championship
The Lottery (so you can build to a Championship)
I don't recognize "unwritten rules" because that could be anything.
If you suck and want to win, as an individual, you got to tank, or as a league, we need to thin the keeper count.
I admit, tanking ran through my head earlier in the season, thinking softtank (only play my Keepers and First and Second round picks) or hardtank with nothing butt scrubs. In the end I decided not to since I couldn't find and takers for the lowround trades.
Then again, I am proof that having the #1 pick doesn't mean shit if you draft Desmond Mason over Dwight Howard...(I think thats what was)
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| | | 68 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 10:05
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Not everyone is aware of the history that led to the demerit system we use. I suppose I could research it, but I don't remember exactly what year it was when we began using the min GP and Demerit system. Prior to this, commissioners would have to review every lineup daily for signs of "tanking". It was a subjective, labor intensive system and created resentment from the people who got called out on a questionable "ref call".
I think I first proposed it in G20 Baseball where it got some traction. The resistance was incredible, but the leadership of both leagues liked the low labor idea, and it won just enough votes to be adopted. It was just an idea for me, but with input from everyone, the skeleton got fleshed out. Not everyone is convinced, but it has won more support over the years.
I remember back then, most of us recognized you cannot stop human nature, and people were going to tank. They would justify it to themselves and eventually come to the convince themselves that is was all part of the game. So, what is a poor honest competitor to do?
The demerit system does not stop people from benching their best players, but it does stop people from simply starting nobody as a "strategy". You want to tank, you are going have to work for it at least. To expect anything more from this system is naive.
If you want to know who is most likely to be tanking, simply look at the standings, the guys at the bottom are the most likely candidates. It's not derogatory, its math.
Unless YOU are going to volunteer to review 20 lineups daily and be the sole arbitor of, and bearer of the blame for tanking violations, demerits is all we got. Otherwise, we can just let our conscience be our guide.
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| | | 69 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 10:05
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<63><65><66> If any of you want to propose a rule change for the 2023-24 Season concerning how we will do the draft lottery, or anything else, Get ONE person to second your motion, and we can put it to a vote.
Historically GO runs rule changes for this league, so you'll need to get with him to work out the mechanics of this voting process. Right now, I am content to leave things the way they are, but I am just one vote out of 20.
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| | | 70 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 10:11
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<67> Good luck with your hospital stay RSF.
I am OK with a suggestion to reduce the number of keepers. See <69> if you are serious.
As to your success with the draft. A fourpeat might be evidence, that maybe you haven't had such bad luck in the past. Nothing personal, but I am glad someone was able to dethrone you, for the good of the league.
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| | | 71 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Sun, Jan 29, 2023, 02:13
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Thanks Bean, it was an unexpected emergency visit, but simple and healing up nicely.
But I am personally insulted you didn't want me to win 5 straight titles. :) LOL. Frankly there was a lot of luck there but having a peak Beard and a rising Greek Freak, certainly makes for a wide band for error. Same thing with BMD and his 2 season run, having peak Kobe (and peak Josh Smith?)
I've said there are hugely talented teams all over this league (top to bottom), it's just the injury breaks that greatly helped me.
I'm trying to debate the thinner keeper count within my own teams. I like the idea of 4 or 5, but thinking about it, I'd have never kept Jarrett Allen when he was still developing (my favorite draft pick)..which might be a good thing for parity. He'd have probably been tossed back. I wonder if 4 "any choice" and 1 "developmental (3 years or less?)" makes any difference. Hmm. Things to ponder.
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| | | 72 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Wed, Feb 01, 2023, 02:23
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Forgot to post here for picks:
Trade:
RSF gets:
Klay Thompson
Philly Busters' 2023.3rd
Philly Busters' 2023.4th
Philly Busters gets:
Jalen Smith
RSF's 2023.1st
RSF's 2023.2nd
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| | | 73 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Fri, Feb 03, 2023, 17:34
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Miles Bridges on the block, either by himself or part of a package.
looking for players who can help me now...
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| | | 74 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 17028517
Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 05:35
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The circus is back in town.
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| | | 75 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 08:27
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Selling Lowry, Conley, Divincenzo, Bryant to contenders that need depth or stat specific guys
Would also like to package two players, including keeper level players to upgrade my keepers; for those of you that have less than quality keepers or anyone who sees an opportunity.
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| | | 76 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 09:37
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From our Yahoo Settings:
Trade End Date: March 2, 2023
This was the middle choice, and I think this was the default. Nothing in the Constitution governing it. Anyway, unless someone knows of a precedence having been set before, this is what it is this season.
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| | | 77 | GO
ID: 18134522
Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 23:34
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Van Fleet and others on the bench again all week... thought we reviewed this?
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| | | 78 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 23:39
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Weekend Over benching his players and streaming the worst possible options available. Not sure why I'm held to a different standard?
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| | | 79 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 23:40
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I went back to playing my full roster before I saw him grinding out garbage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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| | | 80 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 00:34
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When RSF posted about the circus being back in town in post 74, I wasn’t sure if he was referring to Kyrie or Weekend Over. Credit to him though. I’ve been playing fantasy sports for 20+ years and he takes the cake for throwing the biggest middle finger to fellow league members I’ve ever seen.
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| | | 81 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 01:07
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Just to be clear, I was referring to the short lived "Kyrie is on the block" circus. His regularly scheduled traveling circus has now moved on to the Big D.
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| | | 82 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 09:26
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<77> GO, we talked all around this before, but came to no conclusion or votes on rule changes. Currently there is no anti-tank rule other than the GP minimum and Demerit system.
As RSF said, "I don't recognize "unwritten rules" because that could be anything."
As I said, "Unless YOU are going to volunteer to review 20 lineups daily and be the sole arbiter of, and bearer of the blame for tanking violations, demerits is all we got. Otherwise, we can just let our conscience be our guide."
I'll be glad to turn over the commish mantle to whomever is willing to check lineups daily to enforce it. Put something to a vote, and the new commish can implement it next year.
For now, I am just going to check to see if everyone has the right amount of GP at the end of the season.
Does anybody not understand what I have said?
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| | | 83 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 09:58
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To be fair, GO was merely pointing out that we've been reviewing managers tanking. And often, merely talking about that amongst ourselves is enough to change a manager's behavior even when they aren't breaking rules in doing so.
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| | | 84 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 10:07
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This call out IS the policing of it. You don't need to monitor anything Bean.
There is a draft lottery -- so being 19th or 20th doesn't matter. What matters is you put up the points in the categories you are supposed which has impact the rest of the league.
Clearly you will need to rotate garbage to make sure you you meet the games threshold. So that is what it is. Frankly I am happy they stay off the more useful guys the contenders are trying to work with. I'm still behind it and been trying all year to pick games up.
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| | | 85 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 10:53
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"Clearly you will need to rotate garbage to make sure you you meet the games threshold"
I think there's a difference between someone streaming to meet the games threshold and streaming *literally* the worst players available while also benching their better players. I'll abide by any rules put in place moving forward but I'm gonna focus on hitting my game cap (which I'm easily on pace for) however I see fit in the meantime, since it doesn't seem to matter how other owners are getting there. I'm completely open to an off-season convo about putting parameters in place.
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| | | 86 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 11:09
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OK guys, vent all you wish. I'll try not to feel like I am being asked to do something.
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| | | 87 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 11:16
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You are all good Bean -- no worries.
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| | | 88 | BB the ball
ID: 431531112
Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 13:53
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Accepted Trade
Dem Boyz sends:
2nd round pick
J. Richardson
J. Isaac
M Bridges
BB the Ball sends:
6th round pick
G. Niang
B. Clarke
R. Bullock
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| | | 89 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Feb 12, 2023, 13:52
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Accepted Trade
WWCBD sends:
Cam Thomas
'23 Fifth round pick
Wazaaap Guy sends:
'23 Second round pick
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| | | 90 | GO
ID: 288332716
Sun, Feb 26, 2023, 10:35
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I am on the hunt for a useful Guard... i've stockpiled a few too many bigs. Doesn't need to be an earthshattering deal... i'm sure a few of you need a big so shouldn't be that hard, right?
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| | | 91 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Thu, Mar 02, 2023, 15:14
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PSA: Today is trade deadline day. Make or respond to those offers before EOD!
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| | | 92 | WG
ID: 89402220
Thu, Mar 02, 2023, 18:16
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Thanks for the reminder, PB. Have a 2024-3rd rounder on the block for OREB or 3PM. Feel free to make an offer, anyone.
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| | | 93 | WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Thu, Mar 02, 2023, 19:59
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TRADE
WG gets Daniel Gafford and 6
Fosten gets Devonte Graham and 3
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| | | 94 | Fosten
ID: 3120219
Thu, Mar 02, 2023, 20:00
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Confirmed.
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| | | 95 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 22:56
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One thing we will need to sort through in the off-season is addressing how to put an end to some of this egregious behavior that is technically “within the rules” but defies all common sense and etiquette. I’ve seriously never been associated with something so embarrassing in a fantasy league. It’s really tainted the season.
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| | | 96 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Tue, Mar 21, 2023, 14:31
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I'm with TT here.
I've always been a "league integrity" guy, and tanking has as big an effect on league integrity as pretty much anything else - it literally alters the standings up and down from first place to last place.
When you're benching your best players, and then cycling through the $hit players in the free agent pool just to make GP minimums, you are, in essence, cheating, and you impact every other team in the league.
The last time tanking this egregious happened in a G league, we removed the person from the league after the season.
I'd have no problem advocating for that, although perhaps a simple DQ from the draft lottery and the draft picks moved to the end of the first round would be punishment enough to prevent it from happening again.
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| | | 97 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 11:50
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[95-96] Agreed. Moving to the end of round #1 would certainly torpedo any motivation for blatant tanking - although expulsion from the league may be the better choice.
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| | | 98 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 13:06
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Agreed we should establish what the penalties are for obvious tanking in future years, but all that was in place previous was the GP demerit limits. But as has been stated a few times previously tanking in this league is not new and has been done for many seasons, just not to the extremes of this season. Obviously there is a bigger prize potential for next year's draft, but since it's been multiple teams that are racing to the bottom, others have been pulled into it too. Even teams in the mid ranks are light tanking some as I've noticed several key players on the bench in recent days and weeks. But again, that has been the norm for years, I just don't think many have paid attention to it. If you aren't going to finish top 6 in the money, then no one wants to finish 7-15 really.
So one solution is to increase the money payout (higher dues) and # of spots in the money. Or add something similar to the NBA Play in tourney where teams that finish just outside the money in our case get something, maybe slightly higher draft odds. I've also floated the idea that the team that finishes dead last should always get the #4 pick so it encourages teams at the bottom to not outright tank.
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| | | 99 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 13:44
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just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean we should continue to allow it.
the teams involved know what they're doing, and tough $hit if a rule is retro. cheating is cheating, and the past is no excuse.
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| | | 100 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 15:28
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You need a solid rule that is easy to enforce without daily scrutiny of lineups, or need for interpretation.
Just a thought, you can just keep piling on demerits for infractions...can make it work with the existing system.
If someone can come up with that, propose it, get a second, and then work with GO to put together a vote. We could implement it next season.
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| | | 101 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 15:39
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I’m not sure how to solve “don’t pinwheel through garbage (literally low end rotation garbage guys not even guys getting an opp due to injury) to hit mins while keeping your best players benched” other than it should be understood that it’s a giant middle finger to the rest of the league…thus it should be common sense / etiquette not to do it.
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| | | 102 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 16:22
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You need a solid rule that is easy to enforce without daily scrutiny of lineups, or need for interpretation.
the rule is that if it walks like a duck, it's a duck, and the bottom two teams in our league are duck walking.
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| | | 103 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 18:10
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One possible solution is to give teams 7 - 20 equal 1st round odds in the lottery. Then, like current practice, the rest of the rounds are reverse order of the standings. Teams at the bottom get the advantage in rounds 2 - 6, just no big wins for 1st round prize rookies and solid throwbacks.
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| | | 104 | WG
ID: 89402220
Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 19:58
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Issue I see with that is teams at the better end of that 7-20 range really shouldn't have an equal shot at landing the 1 or 2 pick?? Unfair to some at the bottom that finished low despite best efforts.
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| | | 105 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 02:23
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This is kind of funny (at least to me):
So, I'm thinking "how can I help with the automation of identifying who is tanking". Well, how about daily web scraping of the teams pages. Log players, slot, any injury designation. Then scrap some ranking page that fits our game parameters to place a weight for that player (on that day).
I'm thinking, yeah, I've got my old ass vb scripts. GET OFF MY LAWN!
Nah, lets exercise my brain a bit and learn Python. Needed to for years, but my role has changed since the early days.
So, first lets get the HTML page of some team on some date. Simple enough.
Now this is the funny part (again it might just be me)...I found this text within the page:
"Like poking around in code? Love fantasy sports? We're hiring stellar frontend, backend, devops, mobile, and data engineers ranging from interns to senior architects! Let us know how you'd impact our products, share your sports related projects, or tell us why you should join our starting lineup! Email us with a resume to sportsjobs@yahooinc.com. See you on the field!"
Funny little 'easter egg'.
Now back to figuring this Python fun time out.
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| | | 106 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 16:07
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FWIW - when we set up the G20 lottery system, we essentially replicated the odds used in the actual NBA lottery. The last place team had a 25% chance, then 20% for the next to last, then ~15% for 3rd to lowest. It then graded down from there. So there is a 60% chance that one of the bottom three teams wins the top pick.
Starting in 2019, the NBA flattened out the odds, such that each of the three bottom teams only have a 14% chance, and then gradually grading down from there. This, I believe, was done to reduce the tanking incentive. Now there is only a 42% chance that the #1 pick will go to a bottom-3 team.
NBA lottery explanation
We could certainly follow suit.
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| | | 107 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 11:38
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Guru - i think that's a great idea to implement immediately.
that being said, I personally don't want the two teams clearly tanking to emerge relatively unscathed. i do believe that should be removed from the lottery altogether, and perhaps placed at the end of the first round next year before resorting back to the normal order for future rounds.
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| | | 108 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 12:31
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I really wish you had showed this level of disdain when we were negotiating the Zion trade for three weeks lol. Funny how that works.
I know Weekend Over either doesn't read these or at least comment, but I said two months ago (here) that I would play by unwritten "league standards" and then Weekend Over started spamming low quality players, and nothing was going to be done about it that I saw. So I played by the same rules he did while saying that I supported additional rules being put in place.
I wish something was implemented at that time instead of calling for changing the rules on the fly at the end of a season when everyone already knows the most-likely final standings result and were also able to take advantage of both those lower teams trading assets towards that strategy, which no one seemed to have an issue with when it worked in their favor.
I'll vote in support of any rules being put in place that prevents spamming off the wire or strategic benching moving forward, but I don't think any fantasy league should retroactively change rules at the end of the season, especially when everyone has had 5 months to have this conversation.
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| | | 109 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 12:47
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I am a little confused about why anyone would object to the change of the "reward" for finishing at the bottom of the standings taking effect before next year's draft.
"But I worked so hard to tank" doesn't get any sympathy from me, that's for sure.
I wholeheartedly agree with Guru's proposal in <106>.
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| | | 110 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 21:18
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Re:<108> I read maybe once a week, and like you I was ready to adjust to anything put in place; the problem was nothing was put in place. "if you go over 80 moves you can no longer add any player ranked 251 or lower on Blank's rankings/ratings" would have been great back then. It seems the argument is this is such a drastic violation that punishment/removal is needed not now but right now; Perhaps I just don't see the damage because theres no comparison or metric involved and also being in several dynasty/keeper leagues where teams openly and actively have a 2,3, or even 4 year plan, or shift to one suddenly due to an injury.
I have already made a statement to the commissioners including suggestions to adjust rules to curtail the issues complained about but if the commissioners of the league decide on punishment or removal and would like me to state a defense or appeal they all have my email and if they request me to make a statement on the forum I will.
I Also think Gurus proposal in <106> is good and would support. Id offer a suggestion to adjust that to tiers with the highest finisher of each tier to get a bonus. So instead of 20th, 19th, 18th each having 14%; give 18th 16% or 18%.
I think a valid enough reason to not institute immediately is that such a change would typically happen prior to the season played but obviously I am sitting in a position favorable to the current rules. Probably more fair to only let those not greatly affected by increase or decrease in lotto odds be on that decision but thats just my opinion.
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| | | 111 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Mon, Mar 27, 2023, 02:04
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I must have no ethics, because I have zero qualms with tanking, as there are ABSOLUTELY NO REAL rules against it. The NBA tanks. Period.
Wait...its just shutting him down to preserve his health. No, that's not tanking.
I do like the flattened odds, but we should do the whole thing, beyond the very bottom, too. That next tier that gets flatter odds too.
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| | | 112 | GO
ID: 288332716
Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 17:08
|
I also have no problem with it honestly. To RSF's point, there isn't an explicit rule against it. Its a team actively doing its best to improve the franchise... just like the do in real life.
These 2 teams cared enough to put more effort into their season than anybody in the damn league, ironically. I'd rather have that than someone who checks their squad once a month.
Flatten the lottery odds so they don't have incentive to work it that way? sure go for it.
Otherwise - let teams do whatever "Process" they want to improve. Same as I did mirroring the Sixers.
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| | | 113 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 08:06
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111/112: These are pretty strong arguments, though I'd add that
(1) the understanding that teams won't tank is strong even if there was no explicit rule against it
(2) many in the league clearly want to make this be a rule.
I agree with 108 that the rule change, if implemented, shouldn't go into effect next year.
Am going to re-read the comments above with an eye toward what metrics can be used to define "tanking."
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| | | 114 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 13:29
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I think we can realistically quantify when a team is tanking by examining rosters and applying a value (some performance metric ranking) to the players on the bench (exclude them if injured or out). Automate the retrieval of this and determining who is tanking becomes simple [and Bean isn't doing this manually! :) ].
In season 1, I'd bet I'd have had this already done...but I'm old and shit now...so it's not.
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| | | 115 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 15:01
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It might be measurable, perhaps. A strategy which often depends upon non-actions is tough to nail down. Perhaps a combination of lack of roster moves, leaving injured players on the active roster, etc.
Other moves such as picking up a very good but out-for-the-season injured player, keeping a player with a day-to-day injury in, or cycling through low-level players (to get counting stats) are probably not.
I dunno. I think we should consider rule changes to combat actual measurable problems. Not sure we're at that point.
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| | | 116 | GO
ID: 288332716
Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 15:33
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Yes, impossibly to quantify someone "should have" started someone... even if I had a Shaq and I was tight on FT% the last week or something. Am I going to be penalized for trying to preserve my FG% by benching him? Way too much up to interpretation.
Level the lottery, take away the incentive. Or perhaps draw a line in the sand and definite the "lottery teams" at the ASB or something and best record among those gets the most ping pong balls.
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| | | 117 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 20:08
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We've knocked this a round a bit. How bout we put something to a vote.
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| | | 118 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 12:52
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re the zion trade - trust me, if i could do it all over again, i would. both trades I made turned out to be almost useless to me, with 4 of the 5 players acquired no longer being rostered.
normally, i'm opposed to immediate rule changes, but the issues here are so egregious, non-punishment of the teams involved would be the worst case scenario.
If we're not going to move the two teams out of the lottery completely, than anything less than immediate implementation of Guru's suggestion I'll call Clause 106 would be a complete endorsement of what I consider unethical play bad for the league.
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| | | 119 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 00:06
|
We can at least vote to follow Guru's proposal to adopt the flatter lottery? To avoid the controversy, we can wait to implement it, so that the 2023/24 standings are used to determine the lottery odds for the 2024/25 draft.
All in favor say Aye; opposed say Nay.
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| | | 120 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 00:07
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Aye
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| | | 121 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 00:36
|
Aye
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| | | 122 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 00:39
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AYE
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| | | 123 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 07:59
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to be clear, the vote we're taking has ZERO effect on the current season and the subsequent draft?
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| | | 124 | Guru
ID: 29629212
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 07:59
|
Aye
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| | | 125 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 09:07
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<123> Correct Tree
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| | | 126 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 09:56
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nah, this rule is stupid then.
it needs to be affective immediately. Why are we rewarding those who negatively affect the integrity of this league, yet punishing others down the road.
no surprise that the two teams directly involved were the first to vote in favor, because they stand to gain the most from this rule as its written, which, is garbage.
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| | | 127 | Tree
ID: 2628162
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 09:57
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Man, those two teams shouldn't even be involved in the vote because of the conflict of interest.
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| | | 128 | GO
ID: 288332716
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 11:21
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Vote in favor of flattened lottery - waiting one year.
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| | | 129 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 11:50
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I'm in favor. Would have also been in favor of making the change this year.
One question: Are we copying the NBA lottery odds or fully flattening with all 14 lottery teams with equal chances (or something in between)? Oops, another question: Are we still just drawing the top 3 picks and going to order of finish for the remaining 11 picks and teams? We probably need to make sure we're clear on how the demerit system is impacted (if at all) by this change as well.
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| | | 130 | WG
ID: 89402220
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 11:58
|
I'm with Tree. I think enough issue has been raised by enough people that something more immediate is required.
I read the proposal as using the odds listed in the NBA link with teams 18-20 having 14% odds each. I'd personally rather see something like teams 11-20 each having 10% odds next year, and maybe switching to those NBA odds the year after.
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| | | 131 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 12:33
|
Look guys, we can parse this change in a thousand ways. Bottom line is, nearly all of us agree that we would like to see the lottery odds flattened. You may not agree about details, including when it takes affect, but we can further refine that.
We've been talking about this for so long now, I don't even remember who first brought it up. What we haven't done, is to get some agreement/vote to actually change something. I am trying to get that done NOW. We can further argue details once we document that we are, as a league, in favor of flattening the odds.
Don't let perfect, be the reason a good first step fails.
Please, just say Aye or Nay to the proposal.
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| | | 132 | Fosten
ID: 10031913
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 12:46
|
Aye support Guru!
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| | | 133 | KnicksFan
ID: 10314412
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 13:14
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Aye
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| | | 134 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 13:53
|
We have 8 votes for Aye (Bean, Guru, Duff, R-Money, GO, Philly Busters, Fosten, Knicksfan), we need 11 votes to pass. Though they have commented, Tree and WG have not voted. Will try to remind the stragglers to pay attention today sometime.
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| | | 135 | KnicksFan
ID: 34359412
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 13:59
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Aye
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| | | 136 | youngroman
ID: 515013
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 14:26
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Aye
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| | | 137 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 46326413
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 14:26
|
Aye.
Subnotes: Make it immediate, and make it similar to NBA, where the next level of bottom teams is flattened too (at a different level as the absolute bottom).
I'd like to expand it to last 5 teams or something, maybe more. Does it then not promote tanking to get to that point though? Almost like the 11-20 idea.
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| | | 138 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 15:18
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We have 8 votes for Aye (Bean, Guru, Duff, R-Money, GO, Philly Busters, Fosten, Knicksfan), we need 11 votes to pass. Though they have commented, Tree and WG have not voted. Will try to remind the stragglers to pay attention today sometime.
you have multiple people who want this to go into effect this year. why are you ignoring that?
i didn't vote, because your proposal doesn't include all the options, despite those numerous people saying they'd like to see it take effect immediately.
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| | | 139 | Tosh
ID: 11259161
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 16:33
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Aye. For the upcoming draft.
I honestly thought our draft already was flattened for the three bottom teams.
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| | | 140 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 16:44
|
'Those numerous' is redundant.
The irony of this is that myself and Rich were almost certainly going to finish bottom 2 anyway since he was so far behind in games played by midseason and I drafted/traded for every player in the hospital I could find. But having a "who could suck the hardest" stream battle was more entertaining than doing nothing. I'm fine with you (Tree) having an ethical problem with it, different strokes, but please ease up on the high horse. Not everyone thinks we're the devil.
Good times!
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| | | 142 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 17:14
|
With the additions of youngroman, RSF and Tosh we now have a 11-0 majority to pass Guru's resolution outlined in <106>. I would ask that Guru provide details of how it will be implemented with percentages, so we can all understand better. If someone vehemently objects to what Guru offers us, and can get a second, then we can put a specific change to a vote. However, I think most of us have an abundance of trust in Guru's judgement.
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| | | 143 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 17:38
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Now, it appears that a number of people want to implement these changed lottery odds this off-season, and not wait until next off-season. Let's get to that.
I think everyone can appreciate the traditional undocumented standard of waiting a year to implement in-season changes. The 2nd IL slot we passed this year is an example of that. However, it can be a nuanced argument, both the pro and the con, for any particular off-season rule. Implementing an off-season rule change, without waiting a year, gives an opportunity for argument.
The argument against implementing an in-season rule change without waiting a year is often that "had I known that, I would have acted differently this season. Let's wait to change that til next year."
The argument against implementing an off-season rule change, without waiting a year, should meet that same standard I would think. Or is this now an exception, or refinement to the unwritten rule?
With what I have said as a back drop, I think we should let the membership decide. Are we ready for a vote now, or should we air the arguments a bit?
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| | | 144 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 18:56
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I have copied this table from the article that Guru linked to us in <106>:
Team > Odds for No. 1 Pick
Team 1 > 14.0%
Team 2 > 14.0%
Team 3 >14.0%
Team 4 > 12.5%
Team 5 > 10.5%
Team 6 > 9.0%
Team 7 > 7.5%
Team 8 > 4.5%
Team 9 > 4.5%
Team 10 > 4.5%
Team 11 > 1.8%
Team 12 > 1.7%
Team 13 > 1.0%
Team 14 > 0.5%
Until now, I did not make the connection that both G20 and the NBA have exactly 14 lottery teams. Sorry Guru, I guess you have given us all everything we needed.
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| | | 145 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 19:16
|
Argument is the real world example that we are emulating.
NBA - Voted to change Sept 2017 to curtail egregious tanking. Enacted 2019 draft. Low end teams teams knew in advance the stakes.
We should vote for this proposal to go in next season as it has several positives for the league WITHOUT punishing anyone specifically.
A vote to implement this year is only realistically punishing WWC and I and that issue, if members really hold that strong of an opinion that it is an issue, should be separated because its a completely different discussion.
That being said I vote to wait a year.
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| | | 146 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 19:17
|
I vote aye and would support immediate implementation instead of waiting a year. Lottery breakdown posted in 144 replicates the NBA which works for me.
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| | | 147 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 19:20
|
The only “downside” to not waiting a year is it “punishes” two teams that weren’t really concerned with anyone but themselves so I don’t really have any sympathy there.
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| | | 148 | BB the Ball
ID: 5535417
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 19:40
|
So I am one of the “just for fun” guys so I may have a different opinion (money does have an impact). I believe rules are in place for a good reason— we want to avoid certain behavior. So the minimum games played rule is in place to discourage intentional tanking. This new measure is not a change in expectation –it was NEVER OK to tank. This just reduces the reward for someone who intentionally tanks. 14% odds are still an advantage in getting the #1 pick. I don’t think that tanking is “evil” –it just isn’t something I would choose to do and something the league has identified as something it does not want to reward. I would vote to implement the change immediately.
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| | | 149 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 20:59
|
OK, just scrolled up a bit to <106>, to see and tally what people have said. Everyone is in favor of doing the change. Some of us are even embarrassed to say, we were surprised it hadn't been changed already.
Anyway, here is where I think we are:
Implement immediately:
BBtheBall; ttucowboy; Tosh; Tree; RSF; WG; Philly Busters (7)
Wait for 2024/25 Draft:
R-Money; Duff; GO (3)
Not committed:
youngroman; Knicksfan; Fosten; Bean; Guru (5)
Never voted:
skineej; DaveR; artofmonk; twolves; PermDude (5)
Will ping the "not committed" and "never voted" to get them to weigh in. Meanwhile, if I have mischaracterized your thoughts in the summary above, let me know.
It will take 11 votes to implement this immediately. It has 7 votes now. There are 10 voters undeclared.
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| | | 150 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 21:30
|
Ok with draft changes and vote to wait a year to implement.
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| | | 151 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 08:22
|
The only “downside” to not waiting a year is it “punishes” two teams that weren’t really concerned with anyone but themselves so I don’t really have any sympathy there.
this.
and.
This new measure is not a change in expectation –it was NEVER OK to tank
this.
and finally, fixed this:
A vote to implement this year next year is only realistically punishing rewarding WWC and I and that issue...
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| | | 152 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 10:09
|
#149: I hadn't voted because, until #144, it wasn't clear what we were voting on specifically.
If we're combining votes, then: I vote to implement the new draft odds but waiting a year to do so.
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| | | 153 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 11:04
|
OK, soapbox time. This is only my 3rd year in this league so I have no skin in the evolution of the current rules or any experience with past issues that led to those rules (or lack of rules). But I've been playing fantasy hoops and football for a long time and would like to just throw some of my personal perspective out as food for thought.
First of all, I put forth my best effort to get the most out of my team no matter where I sit in the standings or what the ceiling seems to be. There are 2 primary reasons for this:
1. At the end of the season, I like to be able to look in the mirror and tell my self that my team was bad because I suck, not because I didn't try my best. Sometimes it's bad breaks with injuries and players having down years. Sometimes it's just bad decisions. But I own it. Any other way to do it is just disrespecting myself.
2. The second reason is that how my team performs impacts more than just me. Even the worst team in a category league is likely to be competitive in some categories with teams in the running to place near the top. Not trying my best not only disrespects myself, it disrespects the entire league. We all deserve to have end of season results that reflect the true strength of the teams and efforts of the owners.
A final point involves why we play fantasy sports in the first place. For me it's fun and challenging. If it's tough to scrape together the league fee or you need the winnings to feed your family, maybe you shouldn't be doing this. It's supposed to be fun and we need to keep that perspective. However we need ALL the members to feel that way to keep the need for governance at a minimum. The point has been made that NBA teams tank, so it's OK for us to tank. Seriously? Let's just say the stakes are just a wee bit higher for the IRL teams. We all should make our best efforts to field a competitive team. Trade current production for youth/potential or draft picks? Sure, go for it. Sit your best players on the bench and start scrubs to finish lower in the standings? In other words working to be as bad as possible. Never and it can't be tolerated for the league results to have any meaning at all. Even if we're just here to have fun.
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| | | 154 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 12:40
|
In general, I'm opposed to implementing rule changes mid-season.
Having said that, I'm not sure whether this is really a "rules change", or just a recalibration of the lottery probabilities to more closely conform to the NBA practice.
Clearly, when the lottery was set up, the intent was to closely mimic the NBA odds. When it the NBA changed it's selection, we probably should have considered a comparable adjustment. It just never occurred to me.
Also, I suspect that most league managers aren't particularly familiar with the lottery odds that we have been using. I often post those at the time of each lottery, but my suspicion is that most managers don't pay that much attention.
I do note that the rules listed in the opening post of this thread say only "The bottom 14 teams will be in the lottery similar to the actual NBA draft."
So arguably, making the change immediately does seem to be consistent with the stated rules. If anything, the lottery has been incorrectly run for the last several years. (So fire me!)
Based on all of this, I vote to approve the change immediately.
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| | | 155 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 14:01
|
Any rule change made in season that disproportionately targets any league members for no quantitative objective reason is unfair, unethical, and tantamount to cheating. Lets Change Ace High to Ace Low after the final bet because only 10% of the players landed Aces. Might as well play "I win" with scooba steve and Julian the kid from Big Daddy.
Because of this I maintain it should be a separate conversation - removing all bias. The rule change is a good idea on its own. It should update as the IL spot did - waiting a year.
Then whomever can call for whatever punishment they selfishly want or earnestly believe is deserved for whatever reason and we can let the commissioners decide or vote or however we want to do that biased or not.
"it was never ok to tank" I have no issue with this - put it in the thread header lets tie it to the demerit system or a punishment. Want it to be as serious as "You Tank, youre gone"? Fine by me but dont move the goal posts after I already kicked the ball.
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| | | 156 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 14:14
|
OK, I was on the fence, though leaning toward immediate. I am going to commit to immediate now.
Here's the tally so far:
Implement immediately:
BBtheBall; ttucowboy; Tosh; Tree; RSF; WG; Philly Busters; Bean; Guru (9)
Wait for 2024/25 Draft:
R-Money; Duff; GO; skineej; PermDude (5)
Not committed:
youngroman; Knicksfan; Fosten (3)
Never voted:
DaveR; artofmonk; twolves (3)
It will take 11 votes to implement this immediately. It has 9 votes now. There are 6 voters undeclared. You'll have until 11:59PM EDT on 12 APR 2023 to cast your vote.
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| | | 157 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 14:15
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Thats my "serious" answer - feel free to pick at it, petty or otherwise.
Really its just the simple adage of "ball dont lie"
If we are really in the wrong, we wont get the pick. RNGesus will abandon us to toil in the remains.
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| | | 158 | youngroman
ID: 515013
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 14:50
|
implement immediately
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| | | 159 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 15:45
|
Any rule change made in season that disproportionately targets any league members for no quantitative objective reason is unfair, unethical, and tantamount to cheating...
so, what you're saying is that "even though something is in the overall best interest of the league, I CONSIDER IT CHEATING AND WHAT ABOUT ME?!?!!?!"
that in itself says all one needs to know to want this change implemented immediately.
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| | | 160 | KnicksFan
ID: 42351514
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 15:51
|
I vote for implement immediately, only because I think it’s a pretty minor change, and if it wasn’t for this heated argument I don’t think anyone would care too much that the weightings of the draft lottery were being adjusted mid season. If this was a vote to seriously punish tanking teams, like forfeiture of a draft pick, then I would vote for a delay in implementation.
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| | | 161 | Philly Busters
ID: 311122313
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 15:55
|
I don't think making the change now "punishes" anyone. The 3 bottom teams still have the best odds to get the 1st picks. We have a lottery because we don't want the last place team to automatically get the first pick. Nothing really changes as the spirit of the rule remains the same. The undesirable, anti-competitive behavior still gets the best odds. No harm, no foul.
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| | | 162 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 15:58
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I think it is fair to ask, Tree, what the goal is here.
There's no doubt that this will pass in some form, which means that if this works as intended then there will be no tanking in the future.
So the only reason to implement it now is to punish managers who you believe broke the rules.
Honestly I'm not convinced that any actual rules were broken. And your responses (which boil down to "C'mon!! Of course they are!") aren't really convincing. Just MO. There are no standards or metrics in place to demonstrate what you say is obvious. A manager acting in their own interest isn't enough, either.
Certainly having the lottery in place should discourage it in the future.
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| | | 163 | WG
ID: 89402220
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 15:59
|
My thoughts
Duff post 140: Being behind in games played isn't a justification IMO, and probably speaks more to inactivity/inattentiveness. Making adds obviously isn't a requirement and injuries do happen, but it becomes evident when managers aren't checking and their better players aren't started.
Bean post 144: I just fail to understand how managers would have acted differently if odds for the bottom weren't as high. Would they have not tanked? Not as hard? Isn't that a good thing? I suspect they still would have.
Philly Busters post 153: spot on.
R-Money post 155: you're saying implementing now is unfair and unethical... and many others are saying actively tanking is unfair and unethical. AFAIK there isn't a rule saying any change must wait a year (IL change) so why should one interpretation of fairness trump another? Hence, voting.
It's obvious what all this is about, some managers thinking the way teams ended up in the bottom is not just and shouldn't be rewarded. Wembanyama being available next year almost certainly factors into all this as well. Given that some would probably rather the bottom 2 teams be removed from the lottery altogether, I think the worse odds is a pretty good compromise. Heck, as I said before I think 10% odds for the bottom 10 would be even better, but I'll manage.
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| | | 164 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 16:08
|
So with the opinions of youngroman and knicksfan now in the record books, we have eleven votes in favor of immediate implementation, and it is now decided.
As Guru has stated, it probably should have been implemented earlier, but it's a little late to do the 2022 draft over, don't you think?
I only wish we could have resolved it without the vitriol and demonization. However, I'll just attribute that to courtroom drama. You guys really lawyered up this time.
Thanks to everyone for getting your votes in quickly. Glad this is now behind us, and we can all focus on the top of the standings, instead of the bottom.
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| | | 165 | Fosten
ID: 56320515
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 16:21
|
Looks like we have a winner. For the record, I also vote to implement immediately.
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| | | 166 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 16:39
|
Thanks, Bean, for pushing this through.
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| | | 167 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 17:25
|
Thanks for voting everyone.
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| | | 168 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 18:22
|
OK, glad we all agree that "Its all Guru's fault."
I can't even type that without laughing.
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| | | 169 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 18:28
|
Side note: Regarding web scraping teams, I thought, hey, lets see what ChatGPT can produce for me. Typed in "show me a python script that web scraps a URL then enters that data into an Access database"...
Seconds later it pops out a nice little script. Looks like a good foundation to build off of.
I have decided I need to closer monitor my kids' homework for similarities to ChatGPT's results...
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| | | 170 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Apr 05, 2023, 18:49
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<168>I'm preparing the ballot for voting on whose fault it is. Need to ask Guru how to randomize the order of the candidates.
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| | | 171 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 12:50
|
No need to vote. I'll immediately concede defeat.
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| | | 172 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 19:30
|
Grats on the repeat skinneej
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| | | 173 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 45103890
Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 19:51
|
Congrats skinneej! You had it locked up for quite the stretch.
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| | | 174 | WWCBD - Duff
ID: 37841411
Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 20:08
|
Congrats Eric. Literally adding someone named Champagnie to celebrate was a nice touch.
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| | | 175 | R-Money wknd ovr
ID: 32122023
Sun, Apr 09, 2023, 22:30
|
Congrats Skin. Grabbed the league by the horns right before the all star break and never looked back.
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| | | 176 | GO
ID: 288332716
Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:25
|
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| | | 177 | Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 13:02
|
Congrats skinneej
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| | | 178 | ttucowboy
ID: 31142221
Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 19:23
|
Congrats skinneej!
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| | | 179 | skinneej
ID: 73141110
Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 21:49
|
Thanks everyone! As predicted it was much tougher to repeat, and wasn't looking good for much of the season. Getting Booker back in Feb after missing a long stretch seemed to be the catalyst that helped my team start picking up steam. Sabonis was the clear MVP for me this year, but 1st round draft pick Brook Lopez gets my vote for best NBA comeback player as he led my team in 3s and blocks.
BTW Duff, pure coincidence on the last player pickup, just needed a guard eligible player that was for sure playing the last game haha.
Nice find there GO, never a bad time to throw on some old school J's music! If only those of us diehard fans could get them back together for one last tour...
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| | | 180 | WG
ID: 89402220
Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 14:29
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Congrats skineej! Impressive win and b2b Championships! Gave it my best shot but getting only 47 games out of KD and very little from one of my keepers (Isaiah Jackson) made it tough... not that you and others also didn't face similar obstacles. Funny enough, Brook Lopez was a keeper of mine going into last year and I got a whopping 1 game out of him as he succumbed to injury on Opening Night.
Looking forward to trying to stop the 3 peat next year.
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| | | 181 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 15:58
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Bean has asked me to run the draft pick lottery soon. So I'll plan to do that early next week - probably Tuesday morning, April 18.
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| | | 182 | Tree
ID: 4741579
Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 09:52
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sorry for the late congrats - spent the last week traveling for work.
congrats! for a long time i thought i had a shot of winning the league in my first season, but then reality set in, and i was sunk.
again, congrats on a super season well managed!
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| | | 183 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 16:01
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I'm still planning to run the draft lottery tomorrow. As a reminder, here are the odds of getting selected for the first pick for each of the lottery teams:
7th place 0.5%
8th place 1.0%
9th place 1.7%
10th place 1.8%
11th place 4.5%
12th place 4.5%
13th place 4.5%
14th place 7.5%
15th place 9.0%
16th place 10.5%
17th place 12.5%
18th place 14.0%
19th place 14.0%
20th place 14.0%
These percentages exactly replicate the odds used in the actual NBA draft lottery (for teams ranked 17th-30th).
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| | | 184 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 09:21
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Only one team had demerits for falling below the GP minimum. PT's Pleasant Team drops three slots in the lottery odds. So this is the list (with related odds) that will be used for the lottery, to be held later this morning.
7 SANFORDORS 0.5%
8 Munson Mobsters 1.0%
9 Philly Busters 1.7%
10 Spida 1.8%
11 BB the Ball 4.5%
12 youngroman's Luschen 4.5%
13 KnicksFan 4.5%
17 PT's Pleasant Team 7.5%
14 Air Tosh 9.0%
15 Roto Guru20 10.5%
16 ttucowboy 12.5%
18 Fred's Team 14.0%
19 Weekend Over 14.0%
20 WWCBD 14.0%
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| | | 185 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:25
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I got tied up in some other endeavors this morning, so I'm going to wait to do this right at 12 noon ET.
The first step is to generate multiple sets of random numbers from 1-14. The first four numbers from each set map to a specific team. As there are 1001 possible combination of four numbers pulled from 1-14, one specific combination results in a "do over" and the other 1000 are all assigned to lottery teams in proportion to their respective odds. 140 of those combinations are assigned to the bottom team, 140 to the second to bottom team, and so forth. Only 5 are assigned to the top ranked lottery team. This is exactly the same numerical process used by the NBA.
The first set of random numbers determines the team that gets the first pick. The second set determines the second pick (unless it's a duplicate, in which case we have a "do over"). The process continues until we have the top three draft picks assigned. Thereafter, teams follow in sequence according to their draft ranking.
For audit transparency, the random numbers are pulled from a routine at random.org, and I will have the results simultaneously emailed to several other league managers.
Once I apply the random numbers to determine the picks, I will post the results here. I will also upload and link the underlying spreadsheet with all of the details.
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| | | 186 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 12:08
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Random numbers were generated at 12 noon, and audit copies were automatically emailed to Bean, Tosh, Youngroman, and ttucowboy.
Spreadsheet with embedded results is here:
http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/G20/G20-Apr23-14x4_balls.xls
Here are the top three picks determined by the lottery:
pick #1: Weekend Over
pick #2: Air Tosh
pick #3: Fred's Team
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| | | 187 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 14:34
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These are all the pick trades recorded:
IX 2023 Draft Pick Trades:
# YYYY-MM-DD Sends-Rd For-Rd #Thread
01 2022-10-06 DaveR-1 WWCBD-4 #55 pre-season
02 2022-12-08 GO-1 RMoney-6 #Debated
03 2022-12-17 GO-2 PermDude-6 #none
04 2023-01-08 WG-1 Tosh-6 #41
05 2023-01-12 WG-4 KnicksFan-6 #39
06 2023-01-20 ttucowboy-2 WWBCD-6 #49
07 2023-01-24 WG-5 Bean-6 #none
08 2023-01-29 RSF-1&2 PhillyBusters-3&4 #72
09 2023-02-12 WG-2 Duff-5 #89
10 2023-02-13 Tree-2 BBtheBall-6 #88
11 2023-02-25 Duff-2(from ttucowboy) Tree-6 #none
12 2023-03-04 WG-3 Fosten-6 #93
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| | | 189 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 11:36
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Looks like I'll be looking to trade the #3 pick. I need better keepers and in addition am not at all certain that Robert Williams is keeper-worthy anymore either!
Clear keepers: McCollum, Portis, Butler, Wiggins. The rest ... not so good.
Anyway, would prefer a mid round pick and a solid younger keeper-level player in return. If any of you guys are looking at far too many keepers let me know. Not really interested in those on-the-edge players. Needs to be a solid player.
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| | | 190 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, May 22, 2023, 09:29
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new e-mail address on blue link
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