Forum: hoop
Page 5570
Subject: Dirty Dozen Experts Draft - Round 6+

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Mon, Oct 15, 13:49
For an introduction to this draft and to follow the development of the first five rounds, see this thread

Here's a recap of the draft so far:

Round 6
1. Fabiano - PJ Brown

Round 5
1. Fabiano - Sam Cassell
2. Klyce - Mike Bibby
3. Liss - Wally Szczerbiak
4. Bond - Rashard Lewis
5. Gonos - Reggie Miller
6. Slotnick - Keith Van Horn
7. Doolittle - Jason Terry
8. Ludwig - Darrell Armstrong
9. Roberts - Danny Fortson
10. Cummings - Juwan Howard
11. Hall - Kenyon Martin
12. McRae - Larry Hughes

Round 4
1. McRae - Van Exel
2. Hall - Ben Wallace
3. Cummings - Predrag Stojakovic
4. Roberts - Michael Finley
5. Ludwig - Jalen Rose
6. Doolittle - Andre Miller
7. Slotnick - Brian Grant
8. Gonos - John Stockton
9. Bond - Steve Nash
10. Liss - Baron Davis
11. Klyce - Eddie Jones
12. Fabiano - Terrell Brandon

Round 3
1. Fabiano - Antawn Jamison
2. Klyce - Raef LaFrentz
3. Liss - Stephon Marbury
4. Bond - Glenn Robinson
5. Gonos - Jermaine O'Neal
6. Slotnick - Shareef Abdur-Rahim
7. Doolittle - Theo Ratliff
8. Ludwig - Marcus Camby
9. Roberts - David Robinson
10. Cummings - Antonio Davis
11. Hall - Lamar Odom
12. McRae - Jamal Mashburn

Round 2
1. McRae - Mourning
2. Hall - Francis
3. Cummings - Pierce
4. Roberts - Kidd
5. Ludwig - Wallace
6. Doolittle - Jordan
7. Slotnick - Stackhouse
8. Gonos - Marion
9. Bond - Payton
10. Liss - Grant Hill
11. Klyce - Karl Malone
12. Fabiano - Elton Brand

Round 1
1. Fabiano - Shaq
2. Klyce - Bryant
3. Liss - Duncan
4. Bond - Garnett
5. Gonos - Nowitzki
6. Slotnick - Webber
7. Doolittle - McGrady
8. Ludwig - Iverson
9. Roberts - Carter
10. Cummings - Walker
11. Hall - Allen
12. McRae - Mutombo
 
1allhair allstars
      Sustainer
      ID: 5734610
      Mon, Oct 15, 13:56 		Hey. Can we keep this sort of draft stuff clutter in the Standings Thread?!?
;)

In other news, I'm sure glad none of my slow drafts went as slowly as this one. Guess it takes all those other guys a pretty long time to read all those threads on the hoops board...
 
2Polish Pride
      ID: 53911418
      Mon, Oct 15, 13:57 		In my previous message voting for Wesley/Mobley I forgot to say: Don't forget about Jordan!
 
3Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:02 		Jordan went in the middle of round #2.

I agree, this is taking along time. We're averaging about 10-11 picks per day.
 
4 Aris3
      ID: 58831241
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:04 		Centers

Given the lack of many good or even average centers, shouldn't we adjust their rating upwards, and take them over better players at other positions? I think that you can find decent guards and forwards in later rounds, but if you miss out on a decent center, you might end up with a handicapped roster at the position.
Speaking of centers, Shaq is more certainly guaranteed to secure the last place for you team in FT% (since no whole roster can shoot so many free throws at 51%) than to give you the first place at FG%, but given his huge numbers at points, rebounds and blocks and decent steals and the distance between him and the second best center, I would definitely rank him No. 1 overall.
 
5Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:36 		Round 6
2. Donyell Marshall (Hall)

Last year, Donyell Marshall ranked around #60 under this scoring format, using his full season averages. But he really came on strong during the second half, playing more than 30 minutes per game after January 1st, during which time he averaged roughly 16 points, 2 assists, and 8 rebounds, 1.3 steals, and 1.1 blocks per game. If he can put up those numbers over a full season, he becomes a top 40 player.

So can he? He reported to camp in great shape this fall, after coming in very overweight a year ago. And Karl Malone isn't getting any younger. It sure sounds like the opportunity is there for Donyell.


I though about some of the guard opportunities, and also Divac. Guards seem to be more plentiful at this point, and Divac compounds the stats that I'm already strong in - although I will still need another center, and I doubt if Vlade will make it back to me in Round 7. (I may need to go after a much more obscure center).

Marshall offers good statistical diversity. And I had him as the top ranked available player on my list. Or maybe I'm just pulling for the UConn homeboys. (Let's see, with Ray Allen and Donyell on board, all I need now are Uncle Cliffy, Rip Hamilton, Travis Knight, and Khalid El-Amin.... )
 
6Shelby-villian
      ID: 261146232
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:42 		Watch out guru- "AK-47" Kirilenko is poised to
get some minutes for Utah. #1 draft pick from
99 I believe.
 
7Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:46 		Aris3 - I don't have Shaq. (Or did you mean "you" in the generic sense?)

I agree with your center inflation concept, at least to a point. That why I stepped up and took Ben Wallace in the 4th round - which may turn out to be my weakest pick so far.

After 6 rounds, I have 2 guards, 3 forwards, and a center. I think I need to see how the next rounds progress before deciding which way to turn for my next 2 picks.
 
8Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:56 		Round 6
3. Ron Mercer (Cummings)
4. Latrell Sprewell (Roberts)
 
9Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:57 		Maybe I should consider Kirilenko as a late round sleeper pick for "Marshall insurance".
 
10Aris3
      ID: 58831241
      Mon, Oct 15, 14:58 		That "you" was generic.

I really liked the Ray Allen choice. No other guard has these numbers while shooting at his percentages. Francis over Kidd is something that we'll just have to wait and see. I liked the Lamar Odom and Kenyon Martin pickups, but I'm not sure if Wallace will have the same impact this season.
 
11DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Mon, Oct 15, 15:35 		Why Ron Mercer? David Wesley is still there, so is cutino. I don't see the merit behind that pick.
 
12biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 3502218
      Mon, Oct 15, 15:40 		Maybe because Mercer is the only one on that team who can score, now that brand is gone? Some upside there.
 
13Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 15:46 		Agreed. I'd also put Cuttino and Wesley ahead of Mercer. Maybe Stoudamire, too.
 
14Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 15:52 		Round 6
5. Elden Campbell (Ludwig)

The pace (of the draft) has picked up today.
 
15migdallion
      ID: 21091311
      Mon, Oct 15, 16:06 		i don't have wesley ranked all that high. in front of mercer perhaps, but not much higher.

stoudamire is an interesting one because there has been much talk of the larger role he will be playing in the mo cheeks offense. looks like he will really be a floor general of sorts this year. he could be a real sleeper and i would personally rate him higher than wesley and mobley.

then again, the likes of reggie and houston are more valuable in this scoring format (than the sw one) and i suppose should be considered pretty soon as well. then again, latrell will put up better all-around numbers.

and don't underestimate ben wallace...
 
16Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 16:06 		Round 6
6. Tim Thomas (Doolittle)
 
17Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 16:45 		Round 6
7. Vlade Divac (Slotnick)
 
18Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 16:55 		Round 6
8. Damon Stoudamire (Gonos)
 
19Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 17:03 		Round 6
9. Anthony Mason (Bond)
 
20CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Oct 15, 17:32 		I'd like to bring up 2 names for consideration.

Kurt Thomas and Richard Hamilton. I think now that Kurt Thomas has a starting job he will be a great pick to fill up a lot of categories. His FG% is high and his FT% is over 80%. It may be too early to take one of them but I think they are both poised for breakout years.
 
21migdallion
      ID: 21091311
      Mon, Oct 15, 17:36 		kurt thomas is indeed the starter, but othella and weatherspoon will signficantly eat into his minutes
 
22Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:09 		Do you suppose Jordan will help or hurt Hamilton's numbers?
 
23migdallion
      ID: 21091311
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:15 		i believe jordan will hurt rip hamilton and courtney alexander's swps because they were both going to explode this year and rack up the swp on a bad team. instead, they find themselves on an improved middle of the road team.

that being said, i do think their respective swp will be higher than last year's- they will still show a considerable improvement. i just think that their improvement would have been that much greater had jordan not returned.
 
24job
      ID: 46836416
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:21 		i think michael will help both their assists totals. also they will get easy back door lay-ups. if the new zone d doubles up on jordan they they sneak to the basket.
 
25Aris3
      ID: 58831241
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:42 		Hamilton's numbers should improve from last year, since he's gonna be the second fiddle to MJ, with 18-19 points, plus more assists and more rebounds. (He'll have to pass the ball to MJ and he'll have to get more boards with MJ at the 3 instead of a forward.) His FG% might also increase with easier shots coming his way.

The darkhorse in DC is Laettner who is really well balanced statistically (and in no other way). Jahidi White will probably lose considerable PT this year.
 
26Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:48 		Round 6
10. Jason Williams (Liss)
 
27Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 15, 18:49 		Round 6
11. Doug Christie (Klyce)
 
28CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Oct 15, 19:21 		I think Jordan's presence will help Hamilton in a big way. This was the year that he was going to be THE MAN and for a young player that can be tough. Now he has someone to take that pressure off of him and he can play loose on a farily solid team. The zone d should play into his favor as well as he is a fine jump shooter. Rebounds and dimes should go up as well with some easy put backs of Jordan's misses which should draw the bodies that would normally block him out. I think Jordan will really help him blossom as a leader as well and help him mature. He should have a stellar year.
 
29rockafellerskank
      Donor
      ID: 4911539
      Mon, Oct 15, 19:53 		MJ will get hurt. MJ will be this year's Marcus Camby. Hamilton & Alexander will flourish.

I have nothing to base this on, just my "gut"

rfs
 
30Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 08:39 		Complete Round 6
1. McRae - PJ Brown
2. Hall - Donyell Marshall
3. Cummings - Ron Mercer
4. Roberts - Latrell Sprewell
5. Ludwig - Elden Campbell
6. Doolittle - Tim Thomas
7. Slotnick - Vlade Divac
8. Gonos - Damon Stoudamire
9. Bond - Anthony Mason
10. Liss - Jason Williams
11. Klyce - Doug Christie
12. Fabiano - Allan Houston

Round 7
1. Richard Hamilton (Fabiano)
 
31Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 09:14 		Round 7
2. Cuttino Mobley (Klyce)
 
32DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Tue, Oct 16, 13:30 		I guess we're back to slow motion...
 
33Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 14:19 		Round 7
3. Alvin Williams (Liss)
4. Derek Anderson (Bond)
 
34Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 15:17 		Round 7
5. David Wesley (Gonos)
 
35Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 15:18 		8 consecutive guards (although some are also eligible at forward)
 
36Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 15:31 		Round 7
6. Michael Dickerson (Slotnick)
 
37DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Tue, Oct 16, 15:40 		Guru - When evaluating similar players down the stretch, and sleepers or bench players, here's something to consider. If the scheduling format is the same as in TSN, the these teams should lead your bench:
Chi, Den, Det, Gsw, Hou, Lac, Mia, Mil, Min, Njn, Orl

These are the only teams with 5-game weeks in the year.
 
38Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 16:11 		Our league week runs from Monday through Sunday.
 
39chuckball
      ID: 507352011
      Tue, Oct 16, 16:38 		Guru, my league runs Mon-Sun as well. I have a nice schedule matrix I can send to your personal mail, that breaks down the schedule in numerous ways including our postseason (2 weeks). In any event, the teams that have 13-14 weeks (out of 24 total weeks) that play more games than the league average are...

14 = Lakers and Boston
13 = Atlanta, Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Portland, Utah

Five game weeks = Den, Det, GS, Hou, LAC, Mem, NJ, Orl, Por, Sac, Sea, Was

It should make a bit more sense with the matrix I am sending.
 
40Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 20:45 		Round 7
7. Shane Battier (Doolittle)

My short list of potential picks is disappearing!
 
41Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 16, 20:56 		Round 7
8. Scottie Pippen (Ludwig)

Two more picks, then mine, then two more, then me again.

Guys in my field of vision include (in no particular order) Christian Laettner, Jeff McInnis, Steve Smith, Darius Miles, Antonio Daniels, Cliff Robinson, Brad Miller, Lorenzen Wright. I'm not enamored with any of them, but that's the nature of the beast when you get to this level. Any thoughts on these guys, and any others that I should be looking into?
 
42rockafellerskank
      Donor
      ID: 4911539
      Tue, Oct 16, 21:11 		.. of that crew, Robinson stands out to me. I heard an interview on Jim Rome (Friday last week, I think) and Joe Dumars was saying some positive things about him in regards to plans for the Piston's this year. Cliffy brings good 3PG's for a F, decent FG% and a few asst/steals (for a F). We all know he can light it up from time to time too.

(pun intended)

rfs
 
43johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Tue, Oct 16, 21:56 		I like Darius Miles. Should improve on last year's numbers simply by being more experienced. You already have Odom so this could be a nice combo.
You don't really know what Steve Smith's role will be in San Antonio. He could acutally get a rise in playing time now that he is out of Portland (hell?) and their player logjam.
Other than that your guess is as good as mine. I am usually very good in basketball stuff, but I don't have much experience in this (your) type of scoring system. Anyway, I like Miles, but I bet you can get him on the way back if there is someone else you like also.
 
44Shelby-villian
      ID: 261146232
      Tue, Oct 16, 22:14 		Not too sure about Miles. He would be playing
behind Brand and Odom? No idea how
playing time is gonna be spread.

I like Mcinnis, IMO.
 
45chuckball
      ID: 507352011
      Tue, Oct 16, 22:38 		How bout Eddie Robinson in Chicago? He just got paid and should be logging heavy minutes.

Mike Miller could be also thrown in that group, although with Grant returning it could stunt his growth a bit.
 
46chuckball
      ID: 507352011
      Tue, Oct 16, 22:40 		Any consensus on when you think about picking up McDyess for a strong finish, what round?
 
47Janitor
      ID: 44991622
      Tue, Oct 16, 23:03 		Just to throw a few more names in to the pot: Mookie Blaylock (good for steals, assists), Kerry Kittles (points), Derek Anderson (points, FT %, steals), Brevin Knight (assists, FT%, steals; only if J Will goes AWOL), Eddie Griffin (as the season progresses expect good board and block numbers)

All that said, I'd probably take Miles. Too mcuh upside compared to the rest. Added blocks are a plus. I also expect big things out of Lorenzen Wright (good points and boards, but not much of a passer or defender). I know it's preseason, but Clifford Robinson hasn't done much in Detroit.
 
48Janitor
      ID: 44991622
      Tue, Oct 16, 23:29 		also Travis Best and Toni Kukoc are good mentions. Kukoc was really on a tear for a while there with Atlanta.

I just looked at Miles's numbers. they weren't as impressive as I thought. Anyways good luck with your pick.
 
49CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Tue, Oct 16, 23:43 		Don't forget Cliff Robinson in Detroit...he is an old man in a young man's body. Could have a solid year with a team on the rise.
 
50Polish Pride
      ID: 53911418
      Wed, Oct 17, 00:14 		Thought at all about Penny Hardaway? He's a big risk, but I think he's been passed over in your draft too long already.

I'm biased, but I like the above Chicago ideas. Eddie Robinson and Brad Miller should flourish this year without the triangle and Brand. Uncle Cliff should outperform them both, though.
 
51Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 06:09 		Round 7
9. Vin Baker (Roberts)
 
52Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 09:08 		Round 7
10. Steve Smith (Cummings)

My turn....
 
53Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 11:04 		Round 7
11. Travis Best (Hall)

I still need 2 guards, and the next guy (with two intervening picks) is also light on guards, so I figured I'd better nab one now.

I was all set to discount Best (since he's not likely to start) and go with Jeff McInnis, who showed some nice uptrends during last year, and has a better supporting cast this year.

But upon further review, Best's numbers during the second half of last year were pretty comparable to those of McInnis. And Best did it while averaging about 20% less PT, which would seem to provide much better upside for Best.

So, after having already written my analysis for the McInnis pick, I wrote one for Best. And I convinced myself that while McInnis was good, Best was better. [pun intended]

So here's my writeup on Best:

This has been the round for snapping up guards. 10 of the last 13 picks have been guards, and the ranks are definitely thinning. Travis Best is tempting to discount because he's unlikely to start for the Pacers, and his averages last year were somewhat inflated by his starting role during the first two months (while Jalen Rose was out). Certainly, Best's best months were November-December. But after a lackluster January - when he may have been wrestling with his reduced role - he put up very respectable numbers over the last 3 months while averaging only 28 minutes per game, including 6 assists and 1.6 steals. His overall stats during that period rank comparably with other available starting guards who required more minutes to post comparable numbers. This gives Best some very plausible upside if he can squeeze out a bit more playing time, and he becomes a bonanza if one of Indy's other guards gets injured.

 
54Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 13:28 		Round 7,8
12. Tom Gugliotta (McRae)
1. Jeff Mcinnis (McRae)

McInnis was expected. Gugliotta certainly has significant upside and downside.
 
55Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 13:30 		Recapping round 7
1. Fabiano - Richard Hamilton, G, Washington
2. Klyce - Cuttino Mobley, G, Houston
3. Liss - Alvin Williams, G Toronto
4. Bond - Derek Anderson, G Portland
5. Gonos - David Wesley, G Charlotte
6. Slotnick - Michael Dickerson, G Memphis
7. Doolittle - Shane Battier, F, Memphis
8. Ludwig - Scottie Pippen F Portland
9. Roberts - Vin Baker F Seattle
10. Cummings - Steve Smith - G - San Antonio
11. Hall - Travis Best - G Indiana
12. McRae - Tom Gugliotta - F Phoenix

Round 8
1. McRae - Jeff McInnis - G LAC
 
56Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 14:41 		Round 8
2. Cliff Robinson (Hall)

"Uncle Cliffy" offers unusual statistical versatility for a big man. None of his stats are eye-popping, but he doesn't hurt you much in any area, either. Detroit is considering using him as a center, a position which he really hasn't played since college. If so, and he gains center eligibility during the season, this could be a plus. He turns 35 in December, and that's a concern, especially if he has to bang in the middle. But he's reportedly in good shape, and has been quite durable over his NBA career. And no 8th round pick comes without some "hair" - bald pate notwithstanding.
 
57prefek
      ID: 55956179
      Wed, Oct 17, 14:46 		I think we're getting to the level in which McDyess starts making sense. Taking an All-Star in the 8th-10th round, albeit for only half a season, could be a decent pickup.
 
58Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 15:24 		Round 8
3. Antonio McDyess (Cummings)
 
59Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 15:42 		Round 8
4. Lorenzen Wright (Roberts)
 
60coldwater coyotes
      Leader
      ID: 5965479
      Wed, Oct 17, 16:50 		I suggest a consideration for Aaron McKie
 
61coldwater coyotes
      Leader
      ID: 5965479
      Wed, Oct 17, 16:52 		Cliff Robinson was an excellent pick ...I'm surprised he was available in the 8th round.
 
62Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 17, 21:03 		Round 8
5. Anfernee Hardaway (Ludwig)
6. Darius Miles (Doolittle)
 
63Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 07:39 		Round 8
7. Mike Miller (Slotnick)
8. Calvin Booth (Gonos)
 
64Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 11:11 		Round 8
9. Shawn Bradley (Bond)

Looks like the run on second centers has started.
 
65Guru
      ID: 449371811
      Thu, Oct 18, 13:05 		Round 8
10. Charles Oakley (Liss)
11. Todd Macculloch (Klyce)
 
66Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 13:13 		Round 8 completed recap
1. McRae - Jeff McInnis, G Clippers
2. Hall - Cliff Robinson, F Detroit
3. Cummings - Antonio McDyess, F Denver
4. Roberts - Lorenzen Wright C/F Memphis
5. Ludwig - Anfernee Hardaway G Phoenix
6. Doolittle - Darius Miles, F/G, Clippers
7. Slotnick - Mike Miller, F/G, Orlando
8. Gonos - Calvin Booth C Seattle
9. Bond - Shawn Bradley C Dallas
10. Liss - Charles Oakley, Bulls
11. Klyce - Todd MacCulloch, C, New Jersey
12. Fabiano - Hakeem Olajuwon, C, Toronto Raptors

Round 9
1. Marc Jackson F/C GSW (Fabiano)

5 of the last 6 picks were centers.
 
67Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 13:35 		Round 9
2. Toni Kukoc (Klyce)
 
68Ref
      ID: 1442849
      Thu, Oct 18, 14:14 		I'm pretty sure Marc Jackson now plays for Houston. There are some players that have really fallen from where I would have had them and a few that are over rated. I would think that all 12 of these people would know a great deal more than me--but some of these picks just surprise the heck out of me. My league is getting ready to draft and it is pretty good competition--so we'll see how this draft compares with ours.
 
69chode at work
      ID: 34847208
      Thu, Oct 18, 14:16 		The Warriors matched Houston's offer, so Jackson's still in Golden State for now.
 
70prefek
      ID: 279201815
      Thu, Oct 18, 15:46 		I don't the centers available at this stage in the draft are good enough to merit a pick in the 8th round. Todd Maculloch or Calvin Booth are no more likely to give you solid production from the center spot that guys like Adonal Foyle, John Amaechi, Kelvin Cato, Kevin Willis, Chris Mihm etc. that probably won't get drafted until near the end of the draft if at all.
 
71migdallion
      ID: 21091311
      Thu, Oct 18, 16:45 		prefek, i think the main difference between Booth and MaCulloch and the other centers you mentioned (with the possible exception of cato), is that they are clear cut starters and don't have much competition for minutes on their respective teams at the 5 spot.

Amaechi has ostertag; willis has lafrentz and mcdyess will eventually return; foyle has marc jackson and dampier (and could be traded for better or worse); mihm has doleac and ilgauskas (maybe).

Also solidifying their playing time is that booth and t-mac #2 were both relatively big free agent signings and will definitely be given solid chances. I think they are both going to be decent this year and was going to recommend guru select one of the 2 with his next pick if they were still left.
 
72CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Oct 18, 17:04 		Not sure if he's gone yet but I think it is time to go out on the limb and look at a guy like Al Harrington. He is a clear starter on a solid team and has tremendous upside.
 
73Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 17:14 		Round 9
3. Bonzi Wells (Liss)
4. Christian Laettner (Bond)
5. James Posey (Gonos)
6. Antonio Daniels (Slotnick)

Turns out Laettner is listed as both a center and forward at NBA.com, which makes him eligible for either position in this league. Had I realized his center eligibility, I might have considered him earlier. (Probably no one else realized it either.)
 
74Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 18, 17:36 		Round 9
7. Keon Clark (Doolittle)
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 06:11 		Round 9
8. Lamond Murray (Ludwig)
9. Kurt Thomas (Roberts)
 
76Slowhand
      Leader
      ID: 98572822
      Fri, Oct 19, 08:39 		I like Harrington but you might consider Stromile Swift of the Grizzlies;with Abdur-Rahim traded he should be starting and showed some good ability last year.
 
77Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 12:54 		Round 9
10. Patrick Ewing (Cummings)
11. Brent Barry (Hall)

I needed a guard and a center to round out my starting 10. Since the only guy to pick before my next one already has two centers, I figured I could wait until that pick to grab another center.

The guards that made my short list were Barry, Chris Whitney, and Kerry Kittles. All three have had some injury problems - espec. Kittles. Kittles also would seem to have the most upside of the group. Whitney would be attractive if he gets the starting PG slot for the Wizards, but that seems somewhat uncertain, and his preseason numbers haven't instilled any confidence that he will be the man.

When I plugged projected stats for the three into my roster, Barry seemed to be the best fit - significantly. Part of the reason was his high shooting percentage last year, but even when I ratcheted it down to a more modest level, he still seemed to work out best. I think the key is that while Barry doesn't help alot in any stat, he doesn't hurt too much, other than in points scored, where I'm already looking weak. Barry's biggest drawback may be that he doesn't offer much upside. But if he can contribute some solid stats in the early going (when he should also be benefitted by a heavy schedule - Seattle plays 23 games during the first 6 weeks), maybe I can nab a sleeper to fill in once his schedule turns lighter.

And finally, Barry has looked very good so far in preseason play. In 5 games, he's averaged 28 minutes, 14.6 points, 5 assists, 2.4 steals, and 4.4 rebounds, shooting better than 50% from the field and better than 80% from the FT line. Those numbers are way above my long term expectations for Barry. And while I realize that preseason stats are often misleading, I'd much rather go after someone who has been overachieving. If nothing else, he should start the season healthy and confident.
 
78Janitor
      ID: 119361912
      Fri, Oct 19, 13:08 		Has Mookie Blaylock been picked yet? I know he's going to lose playing time this year w/ Hughes switching to PG and the addition of Richardson, but he put up good numbers last year. 11 points, 2.4 steals, 6.7 assists, 3.9 boards. fg % is low though.

For what it's worth he averaged 22nd for guards in SWP/game last year b/n Nash and Hughes.
 
79Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 13:30 		Complete Round 9
1. Fabiano - Marc Jackson, F/C, GSW
2. Klyce - Toni Kukoc, F, Atl
3. Liss - Bonzi Wells, F/G Port.
4. Bond - Christian Laettner C/F Was
5. Gonos - James Posey - F/G - Denver
6. Slotnick - Antonio Daniels - G - San Antonio
7. Doolittle - Keon Clark, F/C, TOR
8. Ludwig - Lamond Murray, F, CLE
9. Roberts - Kurt Thomas, F, NY
10. Cummings - Patrick Ewing, C Orl
11. Hall - Brent Barry, G Sea
12. McRae - Dale Davis C/F Por

Round 10
1. Rod Strickland (McRae)
2. Brad Miller (Hall)


 
80Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 13:38 		Blaylock is still available. I've actually had him on several roto teams in the past few years, and he's been a good producer when healthy.

I read that the Warriors are hoping to cut him back to about 24 minutes per game, though, which is about 30% less than last year. Seems like a red flag - although he might be an interesting bench choice if still available, for those heavier scheduled weeks. Looking at the schedule for GS, however, their schedule is densest near the end of the season - when Mookie might have faded.

We have 13 rounds in total, and I have to draft one more at each position. For these picks, it might make sense to be more speculative. Another approach is to look for solid citizens whose schedules mesh well with the weak spots of my 7-10 slots.
 
81CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Fri, Oct 19, 14:23 		Guru, can players gain position eligibility during the year if they play a certain number of games at another position?

Also, in leagues where this does take place do the players have to START at that position or just play that position some time during the game? Any idea?
 
82DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Fri, Oct 19, 14:34 		I'd try to go for patching up the weak spots, and then use the schedule as a tiebraker.
 
83Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 15:40 		Round 10
3. Mark Jackson (the guard version) (Cummings)
4. Eddie Robinson (Roberts)
5. Mo Peterson (Ludwig)
6. Bo Outlaw (Doolittle)

I don't know what the rules about additional position eligibilty will be. We are using the Fantasy Basketball Commissioner software from CBS Sportsline, and I'm unfamiliar with what their guidelines are. If there is some flexibility, we may have to put it to a league vote.
 
84johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Fri, Oct 19, 16:17 		There appears to be a number of this year's rookies that have gone undrafted. This may not be very surprising, but with now 110+ players picked, they start looking enticing. I guarantee a few rookies wind up in the top 100 with solid production this year. Now you just have to guess which ones will perform well. Anyone have a list of available rookies at this point in the draft? Guru?
 
85Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 16:52 		I think the only rookie drafted so far is Shane Battier.
 
86Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 18:27 		Round 10
7. Clarence Weatherspoon (Slotnick)
 
87Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 18:32 		Round 10
8. Eddie Griffin (Gonos)

rookie #2
 
88Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 18:43 		Round 10
9. Aaron McKie (Bond)
 
89johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Fri, Oct 19, 18:58 		Here is an interesting breakdown of rookies' fantasy options for this coming year:

http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/brian_doolittle/20010728.html

I would say that Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, and Eddie Griffin would be worth drafting in this fantasy league. It is at least worth a thought.
 
90johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Fri, Oct 19, 19:00 		HA! That was actually written by a guy playing in THIS fantasy league (Doolittle). So, therefore take it for what it is worth (maybe nothing?). Also I guess you can scratch Griffin as he has now been taken. That leaves Kwame Brown and Eddy Curry from my list. Also Glen Rice could be worth a shot...but he is definitely not a rookie.
 
91Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 19:53 		Round 10
10. Hidayet Turkoglu (Liss)
 
92Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 19, 20:52 		Round 10
11. Jason Richardson (Klyce)
 
93Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 20, 15:43 		The draft seems to have ground to a halt today. The next guy has two picks, and since we have an 18 hour time limit for a pick, he effectively gets 36 hours to make his next two selections. It's beginning to look like he may take all that time (if he's even around this weekend).
 
94 Chairman
      ID: 19242017
      Sat, Oct 20, 17:24 		Does someone know where I can find a matrix for the entire season of games played by week for each team? For some reason I can't print the one from TSN.
 
95Ender
      ID: 13443221
      Sat, Oct 20, 17:58 		Go to Guru's home page and click the NBA Full Season Schedule link and you can count them up.

You can also look here.
Curiously enough, it's titled "BUGFIX: Schedule Matrix, 2001-02"


 
96Mars
      ID: 239431713
      Sat, Oct 20, 21:44 		After watching Jordan tonight on TNT, I think he was a steal to be drafted in the middle of the second round.
 
97Heir Jordan
      ID: 59201922
      Sat, Oct 20, 21:51 		Has anyone given any thought to how the positional requirements in this league effect the draft order? On an ideally weighted fantasy basketball roster of 10 would you start 2 C, 4 G, and 4 F, like these rules require? Can such a generalization even be made?
 
98Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Oct 21, 13:08 		Round 10 completed, Round 11 started:

Round 10
1. McRae - Rod Strickland
2. Hall - Brad Miller, C Chi
3. Cummings - Mark Jackson G NYK
4. Roberts - Eddie Robinson, F, Chi
5. Ludwig - Morris Peterson, F-G, TOR
6. Doolittle - Bo Outlaw, F, Magic
7. Slotnick - Clarence Weatherspoon, F, NYK
8. Gonos - Eddie Griffin - F - Houston
9. Bond - Aaron McKie - G - Philadelphia
10. Liss - Hidayet Turkoglu - Kings
11. Klyce - Jason Richardson G-F, Warriors
12. Fabiano - Nazr Mohammad, F, Atlanta Hawks

Round 11
1. Mitch Richmond (Fabiano)
2. Chris Mihm (Klyce)
3. Derrick Coleman (Liss)
 
99Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Oct 21, 14:41 		Change that 3rd pick to Michael Olowokandi

Round 11
3. Michael Olowokandi (Liss)
 
100Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 22, 07:14 		Round 11
4. Bryon Russell (Bond)
5. Stromile Swift (Gonos)
 
101Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 22, 15:39 		Round 11
6. Joe Smith (Slotnick)
7. Etan Thomas (Doolittle)
 
102Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 22, 16:40 		Round 11
8. Kerry Kittles (Ludwig)
9. Kevin Willis (Roberts)


I had been hoping to nab Kittles. Oh well.
 
103Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 22, 18:01 		Round 11
10. Mookie Blaylock (Cummings)
11. Speedy Claxton (Hall)
 
104CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Oct 22, 18:08 		Guru---nab Al Harrington on the way up. He'll be a steal this late in the draft!
 
105biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 3502218
      Mon, Oct 22, 18:56 		EH - Do you have a feel for Harrington's PT, with Foster, Croshere, Bender and he all battling for time? I.e. is he gonna get 30+/gm?
 
106TaRhEElKiD
      ID: 6917619
      Mon, Oct 22, 20:53 		IMHO...Harrington should get 30+ minutes a game.

Bender could play SF behind him, but he will also play SG alot (which is what he likes to play even though he is 7'1).
Croshere will be playing PF behind Jermaime O'neal.
Foster is starting a C.

All the players that you mentioned were accounted for above...do you know something I don't, that would make Harrington get less minutes?

Thanks
 
107biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 231045110
      Mon, Oct 22, 22:14 		Nope, Mr. Heel. I know very little. Thanks for your take.
 
108CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Oct 22, 22:50 		I know that at the end of last year they gave him quite a bit of PT and early reports have him starting at SF:

"Bright spots include Al Harrington, who has locked up a starting forward spot"

This is a quote found at this link:

Harrington PT?
 
109Ender
      ID: 13443221
      Mon, Oct 22, 22:54 		Also from that article:

"Jeff Foster, who has locked up the starting center spot"
 
110Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 08:52 		Harrington is a tough call.

On the positive side, he does look to be starting, and Indy has a solid early schedule. Indy has 4 games in each of the first five weeks. Meanwhile, among my other forwards, Cliff Robinson starts 4-2-2, and Donyell is 4-3-4-2. So I could pick up 6 games in weeks 2-4 with Harrington vs. Cliff and Donyell. Are 12 games from Harrington better than 4 from Robinson and 2 from Donyell? It's quite possible.

Harrington has not shown any consistency yet, however, and even his best month was not spectacular. Last March, when he was starting (17 games), he averaged 34.5 minutes, and posted per-game averages of 11.4 points, 7.7 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.4 blocks, and 0.9 steals. Those stats, combined with a FG% of 44.4% and relatively weak FT shooting (65.6%) would rank him around #120 in this scoring format, which isn't great, but does suggest he's OK for a 12th round pick. However, his April numbers tailed off substantially, which is certainly a concern.

This preseason, in 7 games he has averaged 10.6 points, only 4.9 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.1 blocks, and 0.7 steals. He is 12/16 in FT shooting, but that's only one made FT above what his prior average would predict. Those numbers are only marginally better than his full season average from last year, and would rank him around #170.

So you've got to believe in a materially improving Harrington in order to think he belongs on the roster - other than the early schedule implications.
 
111chris
      ID: 149552212
      Tue, Oct 23, 09:57 		ummm this league is a joke...the CBS guys are total idiots. It is ridiculous that they are in an experts league when I have challenged, and dominated them in every sport in the past.
 
112CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Tue, Oct 23, 10:02 		okay Chris, you have made it clear that you have beaten the CBS guys in the past.....We get it!
 
113Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 10:18 		Complete Round 11, start of Round 12

Round 11
1. Fabiano - Mitch Richmond, G, L.A. Lakers
2. Klyce - Chris Mihm, C, Cavaliers
3. Liss - Michael Olowokandi C LA Clippers
4. Bond - Byron Russell, F Utah
5. Gonos - Stromile Swift, F Memphis
6. Slotnick - Joe Smith, F Minnesota
7. Doolittle - C Etan Thomas, Wizards
8. Ludwig - Kerry Kittles G New Jersey
9. Roberts - K. Willis, C/F, Den
10. Cummings - M. Blaylock, G, GS
11. Hall - Speedy Claxton, G, Phi
12. McRae - Jamaal Tinsley, G, IND


Round 12
1. Loren Woods (McRae)
2. Derrick Coleman (Hall)

My last two picks:
Claxton - should get a chance to show his stuff with all of the injuries in Philly (particularly Snow, McKie, & Harpring). In the preseason, he's averaged 40 minutes per game, with 14.3 points, 7.3 assists, 4.3 reb, & 1.8 steals. His FG% of 36% is a concern. But when Iverson returns, he'll probably have less opportunity to shoot.

In any event, this is a speculative pick, and my other guards have good November schedules, so I'll probably just stick him on my bench where, as Yogi said, I should be able to "see a lot just by observing."

Derrick Coleman is obviously a gamble. If he can return to something close to his form of two years ago, then he's a steal. Of course, he's age 34, and has a terrible track record with injuries. And it might require an injury to Elden Campbell, or even a trade for him to get sufficient minutes. But in the 12th round, it seems to be the time to take a flyer, and I'm not astute enough to see another center or forward with much chance to be a top-100 player this year.

RE: Harrington. I just couldn't get comfortable that he was any better than a marginal performer at best. There are 12 teams in the league, and only 10 active starters. Meanwhile, there are 29 NBA teams with 5 starters each, making a total of 145 starters. And some teams' 6th men are clearly better than starters on other teams. So probably at least 20% of NBA starters don't deserve to start in this fantasy league. At best, Harrington seemed to be on the bubble. Even if he is drafted later on, there are likely to be other comparable players available via free agency.

Of course, I could be terribly wrong...
 
114Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 10:47 		It also seems to me that these last bench slots might be more valuable for roving free agent pickups to fill weak schedule needs, so unless there are obvious sleepers (an oxymoron, to be sure), the chances are good that many of these late picks won't hang around on rosters.

That said, my last pick will need to be someone listed as a center (at NBA.com). One possibility is to take Ilgauskas (if still available then) and stick him in an IR slot after the draft.

Other listed centers who are still available:
Kwame Brown
Tony Battie
Jumaine Jones
Robert Traylor
Jerome Williams
Kelvin Cato
Scott Williams
Scot Pollard
Bryant Reeves
Aaron Williams
Mark Blount
Greg Ostertag
Ervin Johnson

Not sure I see anyone worth tying up a long-term bench slot.
 
115Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 11:51 		I just read that Coleman missed last night's game due to tendinitis in his knee.

The long shot just got a bit longer....
 
116johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Tue, Oct 23, 14:39 		Of the centers you have listed Kwame Brown obviously has the most "upside potential" since he is the #1 draft pick playing with Michael. That being said, he did just come out of high school... I totally agree with you that these late draft picks are simply people to look at for a few games, see if they stick, and if not then dump them to the waiver wire to plug other holes on your team, fill scheduling quirks, etc.
In other news, Scott Williams (on your available center list) was just traded to Denver today. Not sure whether that helps or hurts, his team is now condsiderably worse, but he may get more playing time (Lafrentz is in Denver). I'd probably just take Kwame Brown and wait and see after that. Most of those centers look like certain waiver wire guys for almost the whole year. Good luck, your team looks very competitive in my opinion.
 
117chris
      ID: 149552212
      Tue, Oct 23, 14:40 		CanEHdian Pride - just so you know i clearly dont like your attitude and you are just plain lucky that you can cop it on the computer because we all know you wouldnt do it in person
 
119havenbros
      Donor
      ID: 54930129
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:34 		Aahh, the first opportunity of the basketball season to honor the proven tactic of ignoring a$$holes. I acknowledge that this reply itself fails to abide by that rule, but I thought it worthwhile to do so. I've only been a participant on these boards for a year or so but I saw enough trash-talking to last me quite a while early last year before someone helped everyone understand that the worst thing you can do is take the bait of people like Chris who aren't going to contribute anything positive to the forum (at least not if you respond to the crap they prefer to spew). I promise that I won't have anything further to say in response to such rants and I ask the rest of you to swallow your pride, stifle your need to enlighten the ignorant and simply refrain from responding to self-promotions and threats.
 
120Ender
      ID: 52438315
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:36 		Well said.
 
121Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:38 		For some strange reason, the saying "Don't feed the trolls" keeps running through my head...
 
122Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Tue, Oct 23, 21:31 		From the list I would take Cato because he HAS to play this season. Especially after the Marc Jackson fiasco and if Kevin Willis is injured. (I think he is)
 
123YOUNGBUCK
      ID: 209352320
      Tue, Oct 23, 21:35 		stop taking things personal chris.
 
124Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 06:31 		Round 12
3. Erick Dampier (Cummings)
 
126CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Wed, Oct 24, 08:01 		Sorry fellas but I have never been too good at ignoring trolls. Especially the ones that like to talk a big game.

Thing is the attitude that you claim I've "copped" is the same one I'd "cop" here or anywhere else. Thing is, you annoy me. I've only seen you post 2 things at the boards and they've both been about the same thing. Question is, can YOU back up the attitude that you've copped. Here it is chris, if the CBS guys haven't been enough competition because of your unmatched knowledge of the game I'd like to throw a challenge out a to you. Me vs. you in Smallworld Hoops, loser leaves the boards. You up for it?

Hope to hear from you soon!
 
127Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 10:32 		Round 12
4. Corey Maggette (Roberts)
 
128Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 10:37 		Round 12
5. Jahidi White (Ludwig)
 
129Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 12:23 		Round 12
6. Ruben Patterson (Doolittle)
 
130Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 13:36 		Round 12
7. Tim Hardaway (Slotnick)
 
131Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 14:11 		Round 12
8. Tony Battie (Gonos)
9. Zeljko Rebraca (Bond)
 
132Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 07:37 		Round 12
10. Rodney Rogers (Liss)
11. Rick Fox (Klyce)
 
133chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 09:43 		Guru - excellent draft!!! I have checked out the other rosters (generally) and I would say you are probably in the best shape, and definitely in the top 2 or 3 teams. I'd put my money on your team right now. As far as the center goes, I'd take Pollard. With Webber out for a full month, Pollard has the potential to put up very respectable numbers. If a starter of your went down he could step right in and perform, and he may even be decent trade bait to a team with a weak center slot. I understand the Kwame thinking, but I don't anticipate him getting enough PT to warrant a pick.
 
134Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 11:01 		Based on my modeling, the other two teams that look strong are those of David Klyce and Mark Bond.

League rosters

I believe we have clarified the position eligibility rules. Players are eligible for any position at which they are listed at NBA.com, and they cannot lose that eligibility if the listing is changed at a later date. In addition, a player can gain position eligibility if he starts at that position for 10 games. I believe we are relying on the player statistical splits at ESPN to track this.

So there is a chance that Cliff Robinson will gain eligibility at center. That would add some flexibility.

Overall, my weakest stat appears to be FT%, in spite of Ray Allen. The culprits are Ben Wallace, Kenyon Martin, and possibly Odom (who shot only 68% last year!) At this point, I may only finish ahead of the team with Shaq. My overall point scoring may also turn out to be in the lower half.

There are a couple of ways to deal with a weak stat. One is obviously to look for ways to improve it, but that can be a very tricky balancing act. Improving a FT% stat often comes at a cost of reduced rebounds and blocks, and the tradeoff may be unattractive.

The other is to concede the category entirely. If the league is well balanced, it will not be necessary to produce well in every category. And by punting on that stat, I may have better opportunities (via trading or free agnecy) to improve in the other stats.

In either case, it's not necessary to make that decision now. I can wait a few weeks to see how the stats are actually emerging. Early injuries or disappointments could radically change the picture.
 
135Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 11:56 		Round 12
12. George Lynch (Fabiano)

Round 13 (last round)
1. Chucky Atkins (Fabiano)
2. Jumaine Jones (Klyce)
 
136Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 13:51 		Round 13
3. Jake Tsakalidis (Liss)
4. Fred Hoiberg (Bond)
5. Dana Barros (Gonos)
 
137Aris3
      ID: 399161218
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 14:35 		Guru - your DC pick turned out to be great. Now DC will be a starter until he screws up. (Unless you knew something about the trade when you picked him.)
 
138Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 15:37 		or until his knee buckles...
 
139Ref
      ID: 1442849
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 15:45 		Or he gets a hangnail ;)
 
140Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:15 		Round 13
6. Scott Williams (Slotnick)
7. Scot Pollard (Doolittle)
 
141CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:23 		Well I'll try to give some advice once again.

Harrington is still out there, but another player I like this year is Wesley Person. He should help your 3 pointers and is an 80% FT shooter. Just a thought.
 
142CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:24 		Also, Person is listed as a G-F.
 
143jumpball
      Sustainer
      ID: 0922620
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 21:20 		EH -- based on his roster, Guru has to draft a C.

I'm wondering if Scott Williams might be a good pick since he'll get minutes in Denver and might be needed to replace some Dice points.
You could use him in week 2 when he has a good schedule while Ben Wallace will be just watching.
 
144Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 22:04 		Round 13
8. Rodney White (Ludwig)
9. Kelvin Cato (Roberts)

Scott Williams was taken a few picks ago.
 
145Shelby-villian
      ID: 261146232
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 22:48 		Take Ilguskas and stash him and then pick up
someone else off waivers. Someone will look
good once the season starts...
 
146krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 01:51 		who is the better pick? kobe or allen?
 
147miguel p
      ID: 37883020
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 14:40 		um, i think they've both been taken already . . . someone gambled on them a few rounds ago. : )
 
148krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:11 		oh i know, i just don't understand how allen fell so far in the draft. guru, you're lucky, personally, i think allen should have been taken in the top 5 or 6. but my question is, who do you think is the better pick, if you had the choice to pcik kobe or allen?
 
149DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:17 		Kobe for sure
 
150Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:21 		Allen vs. Kobe. I score it a virtual tossup. Perhaps Allen should get a slight nod because of durability. But I couldn't really argue against either choice.

Why did Allen go so late in our draft? I think it is because his value is embedded in some of the stats which are not as recognized in the real world - namely 3 pointers and FT%. In an experts league, you would think that this value wouldn't go unnoticed. But based on some of the player analysis I've seen from some of these guys, I'm not convinced they all appreciate all of the nuances of our scoring method. (Some of them clearly do, though.)


 
151krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:30 		ok just making sure, i'm new to this whole rotisserie style of scoring, i have always done smallworld, but now that you have to pay, i needed to find somethin else. now i have to change my whole concept of what i need to do, 13 drafts? i really am kinda lost after the first 6. hehe. i guess i need to do more research.
 
152DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:44 		Guru- I believe Kobe's improvement year-to-year are more dramatic, and this year he'd pass Allen even in any kind of league, I'm looking for MVP-numbers from him.

Disclaimer: I'm a die-Hard Lakers fan since 1980.
 
153fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:02 		hey guys is there anyplace where i can get stats on the bad stuff? like turnovers, technical fouls and rejections? i can't find anyplce that has them
 
154Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:47 		fgamedawg - Some magazines have turnovers and disqualifications. There also some hardcore text databases on the web, but the ones I knew have been discontinued.

These stats have been banned from nba.com and espn. They represent what's evil about the game...
 
155fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:49 		haha, your kidding me right? that is such junk.
 
156chuckball
      ID: 507352011
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:02 		Try

http://home.rmi.mindspring.com/~doug/
 
157Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:08 		Thanx for the link. Doug Steele is always a good source. And someone else mentioned Dean Oliver and the JoBS in another thread today.

This brings back memories of days with lots of free time...
 
158Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:57 		Round 13
10. [absent] (Cummings)
11. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Hall)
12. Eddy Curry (McRae)
 
159Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 23:51 		Guru - do you really think that Z will ever play again?

He's played 29 games in 3 years and his legs and feet are only getting worse.
 
160Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 08:56 		Long shot. But I'll just stuff him in an IR slot for now, and then pickup a free agent when I need an active player.
 
161chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 9992720
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 22:17 		Again, excellent draft Guru. Z was probably the best pick available considering that you can put him on IR. I had one question for fellow gurupies. I am drafting in a league tomorrow night with the same rules, except that turnovers are a category and there are 15 teams. How would this change your analysis. I have the 1st pick. Would you guys be looking at Garnett or elsewhere? I know centers are going to be so thin, so I'd like to take a center, but can't justify taking one with the 1st pick. Any thoughts? Thanks and good luck to Guru.
 
162BoNkA
      Donor
      ID: 46314305
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 22:54 		There should be some decent centers sitting around later in the draft as was the way my draft today went. I was able to pick up Ben Wallace pretty late in the draft after picking up LaFrentz early (almost a wasted pick) along with J. O'Neal in the middle. But Wallace looks to be a good center to pick up later because he rebounds a lot, blocks shots, and apparently gets a ton of steals according to CBS sportsline...
 
163fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 18:06 		15 players? oh really? the draft woudln't be at 10:30pm would it? if it is, i would suggest you pick up cedric cebollos for your first pick ;)
 
164chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 19:56 		fgame - not the same league, but c.c. does look like a good pick.
 
165fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 20:59 		i assume u were joking with the c.c. comment, i can't tell if ur being sarcastic. anyway, for the t.o. category. i wouldn't worry too much about it. as long as you keep an eye out for them. just don't create a team with too many to/pg. if ur worried about picking up someone like iverson, kidd, francis because of their to, i wouldn't sweat it. they're good outweighs the bad.
 
166chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Mon, Oct 29, 2001, 15:31 		fgame - yeah i was being sarcastic. The only thing I tried to do with the turnover category was shy away from stackhouse, antoine walker, etc. Thanks for the advice and good luck in your league.