Self Editor

Forum: hoop
Page 9710
Subject: RIHC - Regular Season Discussion

Posted by: Doug - Sustainer [31649212] Tue, Oct 28, 2003, 17:35

Draft Picks
Draft Discussion
Draft Pick Rationales (Round 1-9)
Draft Pick Rationales (Round 10-15)
Overall Draft Review/Recap/Reactions

The links above are to the previous threads... this thread is intended for discussion (both within league as well as outside input and observations) now that the season is underway!

Opening tipoff in T-minus 90 minutes and counting!

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Tue, Oct 28, 2003, 17:41

Well, I'll start off by saying that 2 of the 3 picks that I was concerned about are already gonna miss at least 5 games each to start the season (Butler and Szczerbiak)... ARGH! That's OK, though... I'd rather they sit tight for now and get healthy so that they their performance is stong once they return! Fingers crossed...

Swish City
Leader
ID: 0931275
Tue, Oct 28, 2003, 19:16

You're not on your own with the worries Doug, but at least ours are a little more defined. We have Big Dog suspended for the 1st 3 games. But then there's the Tinsley PT situation which is causing us some consternation already too. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come :)

blackjackis21 - away
ID: 239532718
Wed, Oct 29, 2003, 00:23

Anyone else have Kobe on their team?

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 29, 2003, 11:50

I just assembled a one-page summary of standings, stats, recent transactions, and current rosters. I'll update the page each morning.

Here's the link: http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/RIHC.html

I'm open to suggestions about format, additional data to capture, etc. I'll also link to this page from the RIHC logo on the blurb page.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 29, 2003, 12:00

Last place! Another start start!

I had two players going last night - Snow and Nesterovich - and neither did well. I'm not worried about Snow. He'll get his stats. Nesto is a bit of a concern already, though, after a weak preseason. I may have to bench him for awhile until he figures it out.

Bench: Voskuhl did surprisingly well, and I suppose I could use him in place of Nesto for the time being. Fortson had a poor outing, although I had him on the bench because the Lakers were the opponent. But still, I think I'll wait there as well to see how he develops as well.

Obviously, one game doesn't give much info. But it gives some.

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Wed, Oct 29, 2003, 14:09

LOL... don't sweat it Blackjack... you're already in first place even without Kobe!

Rand
Donor
ID: 339221320
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 09:30

Somebody shoot me. Please? I was looking forward to finally playing Stevie Francis and Elton Brand and enjoying the stats they would provide. Woke up this morning to find out that Brand's game was already over and he was sitting on my bench. OUCH! I don't know if I'll ever recover from this. 8 blocks! 15 boards! over 20 points. Well, at least Lebron didn't suck last night. Still feel sick about missing a huge Brand night though.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 10:27

Rand, you do realize that you can set your lineup changes days in advance, don't you? You didn't need to wait until today to do it.

If I contemplate roster moves in the next several days, I almost always process them in advance, just to avoid the inevitable senior moments.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 31911717
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 11:30

Like the one page summary. Looking forward to following the action.

Rand
Donor
ID: 339221320
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 12:00

Oh yeah, I know that, Guru. Just been too focused on the tsn games the last couple of days. Anyway, it's pointless to make any excuses, and I'm done smackin' myself in the head. I had a good cry, but it's time to move on:) And it won't happen again!!!

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 12:10

I should probably frame today's position table. Thank you Mr. Duncan and the inspired pick of Arroyo.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 15:21

Guru,

I really like the interface you set up (post 4). It's even easier to disply information that Yahoo! Thanks.

Made the Bradley/Mercer more for future consideration than anything. Doesn't look like Bradley is going to be in the mix at all and Mercer could get big PT with SA. I have more big men than small, so if I have to plug a G/F spot, perhaps he will help eventually.

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 15:23

Yeah, the GP column is very nice to have too.

So far so good on my strategy... =-)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 15:27

Already dumped Fortson. With Antoine there, looks like he may be the odd man out. Only 3 minutes last night.

Even if he does get better time (and I suspect he will), he's rather one-dimensional. Not worth tying up a roster slot while waiting for things to shake out.

Nesterovic is also a growing concern, but I'm more willing to wait for him to find his spurs.

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 444181610
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 16:18

I currently have three of my "bench" players (two of them picked up post-draft) starting. With Bryant, Keon Clark, and Troy Hudson in various stages of ailment, I'm forced to go with Voshon Lenard, Cal Cheaney, and George Lynch. After one game from each however, I don't have too much to complain about - particularly with regard to rebounds.

ukula
Donor
ID: 31923013
Thu, Oct 30, 2003, 16:32

Someone better check the standings, they seem to be upside down. Please fix, thanks!

ukula

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 12:16

just found this thread

arroyo is doing well - glad to have gotten him in another league (keeper)

my team is near the bottom in FG% something I assume will change soon. Had expected this to be a strength right after the draft

Swish I will be keeping an eye on Dwayne Wade and comparing him to Ginobili because of your draft overview comment :)

Wade was slowed after Eric Snow knocked him on his butt and got a hip point in the first quarter of the first game. I saw it live on TV. Will be at the Sixers-Hornets game on Weds Nove 5th.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 31911717
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 12:39

Can someone direct me to a thread which explains the scoring used? Thanks.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 12:50

Copied from the Yahoo league settings page:

League Settings

League ID#: 4186

Season: Full Season

Draft Type: Offline

Draft Status: postdraft

Maximum Number of Teams: 12

Maximum Players on a Team: 15

Maximum Moves: No maximum

Maximum Trades: No maximum

Scoring Type: Rotisserie League

Waiver Time: 2 days

Last Trade Date: Thursday, March 4

Trade Reject Time: 2 days

Maximum Games: 82

Retroactive Stats: No

Roster Changes: Daily

Starting Positions: G, G, G, G, F, F, F, F, C, C, Util, Util, IL

Statistical Categories: Field Goal Percentage
Free Throw Percentage
3-point Shots Made
Points Scored
Total Rebounds
Assists
Steals
Blocked Shots

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 31911717
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 13:08

Thanks guru.

Swish City
Leader
ID: 0931275
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 15:47

Hoops No doubt i'll end up with egg on my face over Wade and all the other predictions i made. In my defence, at least Gino was wonderful for 1 night this year.

I'm especially waiting for Dave R's response when Joe Johnson starts producing like his life depends on it ;) Having said that, you have to expect these kind of wild accusations from us Euros - when you're starved of even 1 minute of NBA action and everything has to be done from box scores, it makes you a little crazy after a while, you know? :)

Dave R
Dude
ID: 1367294
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 16:52

Swish City, yeh it would be nice if Johnson could even shot a respectable %, both from the field and the line.

Last night was a pleasant surprise as I got decent performances from all, Mobley was especially huge.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 599312319
Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 23:32

Deciced to dump Ely early and pick up Jaric. Neither Clipper plays for the next week [but they do have 80 left!!!], but I'm not sooooo sure the PG battle is settled in LaC land after Jaric has 5 dimes at half and more PT than Dooling. In this group, any hunch is worth a shot. Unless I have injury needs, I think I'll sit on him a while and hope he emerges. I wouldn't mind luck-ing into a starting PG.

Swish City
Leader
ID: 34634306
Mon, Nov 03, 2003, 07:39

*muttering under breath* Can't believe that Dave R picked up Dampier one pick before us. And Joe Johnson has started producing. It's not fair.

Seriously though, fantastic start Dave R. Your later round picks are certainly doing the business at the momemt. I have been particularly impressed with Dampier and Art Glover. However, now we have picked up the mighty Raja Bell, his nightly 3Ds should help us catch you in no time ;)

Mike D
Donor
ID: 41831612
Mon, Nov 03, 2003, 08:33

A couple of comments from an interloper.

With Rand’s relatively low 3pt ranking, surprised he dropped Giricek.

The Armstrong to Delk move is one I considered in a couple of leagues, but decided against. Interesting to see HoopsKlyce went the other way.

The timing on the Kedrick Brown drop is interesting, as his playing time should be fine with the E. Williams injury and overall lack of players at that position.

Rand
Donor
ID: 339221320
Mon, Nov 03, 2003, 11:26

hi Mike D, thanks for your comments.
I never expected my 3 point ranking to be high, but I think 4th is OK for now, and I don't percieve the area as a major weakness. With Tim Thomas, Prince, Ronald Murray, Sprewell, Payton, Francis, and even Lebron, I won't be leading the league in 3s, but I'm gonna be seeing enough treys to stay comfortably in the middle of the pack.

I probably should've dropped Lamond instead of Giricek, but I didn't have any plans on putting Giricek on the floor anyway (or Lammond for that matter). I got enough shooters, and didn't want to waste too many games played on a guy coming off the bench. Giri has played poorly and was day to day last I checked. Having lost Brand for awhile, I am a little worried about falling way behind in Blocks and FG%. So I thought I'd just take a flyer on Eldon Campbell, who could be good for 2 blocks a game.

Sure, I may regret letting Giricek go so quick, but I love working the waiver wire and I never let myself get too attached to bench players.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Nov 04, 2003, 10:36

Dave R's apparent margin isn't as wide as it looks. He's got a 22% advantage in games played over the average of the other 11 teams, which is bolstering his ranking in the "counting" stats.

Just for kicks, I worked out the rankings using per-game averages, rather than totals. On that basis, here are the standings:

73 SANFORDORS
71 RotoGuru.com
61 Beware Of Doug
58 www.HoopsKlyce.com
54 Count Dracukula
53 Swish & Edgar Euros
50 blackjackis21
49 Net Damage
48 Coldwater Coyotes
47 Rand Dragons
44 rockafellerskank
17 philflyboy

So Dave R is still on top, but the advantage ain't so daunting.

philflyboy is digging a big hole . Stackhouse and Ray Allen haven't yet played. Tony Parker out. Eddy Curry not cutting it so far. Eddie Griffin still MIA. Sounds like this month could be a character builder!

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Nov 04, 2003, 16:24

I got the following email this afternoon from someone who didn't want to post an "idiotic question" in the forum. I didn't think it was idiotic at all, so figured I would post the question as well as my reply, since others with limited roto experience might be similarly perplexed:

"I am not following how the maximum game limit comes into play and why Dave R is so far ahead in games. I have tried to find an explanation for how this works, but have come up empty so far. Can you help?"

My response: There are 15 players on a roster, but only 12 can be active on any given day. If a manager rotates his bench players into active slots when those players have games, then he can bulk up his games played.

However, each position is limited to 82 games per slot per season. So, for example, the four guard slots can only accrue points for 4x82 games. Once that total is reached, stats no longer accrue for that position. The limits are applied separately for each position, so forwards are also limited to 4x82, centers to 2x82, and the utility slots are limited to 2x82.

It is possible that Dave R simply got ahead of pace because his top 12 players come from teams with heavy early schedules. If that is the case, then there is really no need to adjust, because when their schedules lighten, the excess will dissipate. But if he has actually been rotating his lineup to get extra games, then at some point he'll need to reverse it - unless he has some unfortunate injuries that automatically take care of the problem for him.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Nov 04, 2003, 22:33

I have archived the daily league summary pages. The general form for the link is:
http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/RIHC/RIHCmmddyy.html

where mmddyy represents the date. For example, the standings as of Nov. 2 are at http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/RIHC/RIHC110203.html

These may be useful if you want to check back to see how recent performance has been, or to monitor daily roster changes.

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 01:42

Man, this has been a brutal start to the NBA season overall it feels like. Beyond just the rash of injuries, it seems like ugly performances all around. I was feeling like I wanted to line my team up and make them run lines for 5-6 hours straight, and then make them practice their jumpshots afterward. But then I looked around and realized it just isn't me. Examples:

I assumed I was going to be horrid in FG% with Iverson, Walker, et al. And it is true, the .425 for my team truly is ugly, including Mike Miller 1-8, Ron Artest 4-17, Kendall Gill 0-7. But then I see there are three teams with their composite % under .400 and performances like Eddy Curry 0-8. Does this seem like a bigger issue than usual, or am I just watching it more this year?

I know it takes work to beat out anybody carrying Shaq for worst FT, but .662 as a team with lots of guards is especially impressive.

Things like Denver's game tonight aren't so much of an abberation anymore it seems. Some of the blame has been pointed toward the late start for veterans at training camp. This first week has felt more like a game of survivor than a race to accumulate stats.

Also, the San Antonio box score without Duncan playing seemed almost identical to one with him in the lineup! A bunch of role players, nothing especially stands out to you, but yet they added up to a win.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 08:10

During the draft, I estimated the average per-game stats for each category for the entire league (based on the top 144 players).

If we had a team with 41 games played (just below the league average so far) and those averages, that team would be ranked second, barely behind Dave R. And if Dave R's stats were proportioned back to 41 games, then that team would rank 1st.

So if you are getting anything close to the averages you were expecting, you should be doing quite well.

Shooting percentages seem particularly atrocious. The league average FG% (approximate) is only 42.6% and the league average FT% is 74%. My corresponding league projections were 45.1% and 77.1% respectively. Those may still turn out out be correct. Maybe crappy shooting is normal for the opening weeks.

Mike D
Donor
ID: 41831612
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 08:23

Like in baseball, where the pitching starts off ahead of the hitting. Or so my teams are hoping.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 08:28

I added links in the "other links" section of the standings page which lead to the prior day's page and the prior week's page, just to facilitate finding archived pages.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 24100310
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 11:26

Re: 29. Thanks for posting the e-mail and the response. I am certain that the person who sent it in really appreciates the confusion being cleared up.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 12:20

regarding 25.
I opted to let Armstrong go and take Delk since I thought Delk had more upside despite being the 6th scoring option for the Mavs. Delk did well last year in the playoffs and I am hoping for some carry over.

Losing Skinner was a drag but at the same time malik Rose will see more playing time while Duncan is out.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 599312319
Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 21:28

Brevin Knight not with the team tonight (PHX). Considering Barbosa is out of the country (ill father).... speculation is that Brevin has been traded... no word on the deal, but I thought I'd take a chance because Mercer is expendable....

...before I can type this post, the Suns announcers announce Knight/White deal to WAS. I can't see Brevin getting minutes on WAS, so, I'll grab White since my blocks stink and maybe White will become the starting C in Phoenix. Obviously, this is a pure spec move.

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Thu, Nov 06, 2003, 02:39

Same as RFS, pure speculation on picking up Travis Best. He's never done anything terribly special, but until we know what's up with Steve Nash he's the next guy who was available who could possibly benefit with minutes. I'm not where I thought I would be in the standings for assists, so I'll just throw him on the bench until we know what the deal is with Nash, the replay didn't look like he was really hurting much. I've just been anxious to trade out Shammond Williams and was a little too slow on the trigger last night when I had wanted to pick up Maurice Taylor (darn you Coldwater!).

I realized I never responded to the reasoning on dropping Kendrick Brown - he may be a starter officially, but just doesn't seem to do anything special and certainly isn't getting the minutes. Haven't seen a Boston game on TV yet, and I'll admit I was a little nervous if it was the right thing after hearing about Eric Williams.

How about Dave R with Dion Glover and Kelvin Cato in the final three rounds? Nice late pick production.

Finally, I know that I have finally sold my soul and lost any and all player loyalties and respectability when I've added Christian Laettner to my team. I'm embarassed that my family might find out.

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Thu, Nov 06, 2003, 20:07

There were a couple nice pickups in the early days of the season... sadly I was out of town the whole time and unable to make any claims other than one mediocre player pickup on Friday morning... *grumble* It looks like I've got my work cut out for me.

But overall the quality of play in the league so far looks really good! Wish I could say the same for the actual NBA... both from a fantasy perspective and the limited amount I've seen on TV.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 24100310
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 11:58

As one with little to no roto experience, I was hoping someone could shed some light on the following - building on 29:

When preparing for your drafts, do you pay attention to how your players work together schedule-wise? i.e. - do you check schedules for your potential shooting guards to evaluate how to maximize the opportunities up to the limit and does that factor into how your rank them for draft purposes.

Or is the focus more on the best available players as you rank them according to the scoring categories and then work out schedule issues once the season begins.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 12:47

Schedule really has no impact in this league, since we are limited to 82 games per position-slot. For example, our four guard slots are limited to a maximum of 4x82 games.

Thus, our top four guards are going to fill most of that capacity. To the extent that some games are missed (injury, suspension, or whatever), we'll want to fill in those games from bench players. Given the nature of the NBA schedule, there should be plenty of opporunities to weave those bench starts in and out of the active lineup as we go along.

If we had no limit on games played, then I suppose it is conceivable that schedule could become a factor. Still, I would assume that with a limited bench size, just about any schedule configuration could work out fine. At best, I think that would be only a very marginal consideration.

Some leagues allow only for weekly player transactions (i.e., active vs. bench). My experience is that these leagues typically do not limit games played, since weekly transactions effectively limit this. In that case, you wouold like to have players with 4 or 5 games weeks as much as possible. There might even be some weeks when you would prefer to bench a stud in favor of a bench player, if the stud plays only once or twice while the bench player plays 4 or 5 (depending on how the numbers work out). Even in a weekly format, though, I've usually managed that aspect via free agent pickups. I would usually try to keep my bench players stocked a week or two in advance of schedule opportunities. I've never factored that into my draft thinking.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 24100310
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 13:04

OK, I think I am making progress...I was stuck in 'rotation' thinking which is not much (if any) of a factor in the roto world - you pick your best four and put them on the court for your maximum number of games with the occasional use of a bench player as needed.

Swish City
Leader
ID: 0931275
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 15:07

Hoops How's that Dwayne Wade thing working out for ya? ;) All of a sudden, Gino in round 8 is looking an absolute steal of Zach Randolph proprtions. I realise it's early going, and the injuries in San An have certainly helped, but can you argue at all with his numbers so far? As of today, Gino is #5 on ESPN player Rater and ranked #2 in Yahoo. Considering he has not exactly been white hot from the floor, thats even more of an achievement. In both cases, thats ahead of TMac, who must have left his shooting touch on vacation in the summer.

A couple of other guys that have really surprised me early on:

Antoine Walker - who'd have thought his numbers would hold up that well in such a loaded offense. It's early but it looks like Walker might fit. I would think LPG must be happy with what he's dont thus far - i was expecting a sharp downward turn but as yet, it hasn't happened.

Baron Davis - #1 on ESPN and Yahoo, we passed on Baron in round 3 and already that looks like a bad decision on our part. 4 3's and 5 steals per game? Are you kidding me? We'll see what happens when Mash gets back.

Ben Wallace - More scoring makes Ben a 1st round pick. Ignore the FT% and you have a complete monster (not that he wasn't before). If Ben comes out of this season average 12+ PPG, his value becomes absolutely immense.

Erick Dampier - Man, i keep waiting for this guy to calm down, but it just ain't happening. With Foyle out and Dampier rebounding like tomorrow ain't ever arriving, he scares me. Which in turn, makes Dave R scare me :)

Tyson Chandler - Holy crap Dave R, you have landed some gems in this draft. With Curry, quite frankly, being awful thus far, Chandler is carrying the Bulls frontcourt load. And then some.

Edgar and i will certainly be looking for a bit more from our top 4 picks as the season progresses. I would not say that TMac, Yao, Amare or JWill have particularly lived up to expectations. I can also see a big problem appearing with FG% if TMac does not find his shooting boots soon. But as pointed out by LPG, shooting on the whole has been nothing short of disgusting so far. Only Boozer and Yao are stopping us from joining the sub .400 club.

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 289471616
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 19:25

Coldwater, tough break on the Mo Taylor suspension. I've already admitted I was minutes away from making the same move when you beat me to it.

Quite some surprises as Swish pointed out earlier, I will say I've been excited by how well Walker has fit it (good thing that TO's don't count against me, that would change things). Looking back with Walker at #11 and Redd at #13 so far this year, both blackjack and I can both feel okay about our trade still.

As for other surprises, Kittles is playing great and Jim Jackson seems to be the highest rated non-drafted player. Of course, this early in the season, everything cold just be 3-4 hot games to start the season and mean nothing in the big picture.

Baron certainly has been playing great, although I still don't think it's terribly surprising. His numbers change so much when Mashburn is in the lineup. At the time of the draft, he was discounted because of injury risk, and thinking Mash was going to be back earlier. He's probably going to finish a bit higher than his draft spot, but I also think he's just on a hot streak and will come back to normal soon.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 5392426
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 19:54

Wade got hurt
btw...you wont see me rubbing your nose into any of your misfortunes

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 5392426
Fri, Nov 07, 2003, 20:02

previous reply was in respone to 44

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Sat, Nov 08, 2003, 04:44

If I were going strictly on statistical performance so far this season, both Mike Miller and Kwame would be extremely close to setting the mark this season for highest draft pick to be placed on waivers. Anybody on the east coast have any insight on what the heck is up with Kwame, is he just wandering around the court lost and listless? And something is seriously wrong in Orlando when TMac only gets 10 shots for the entire game.

Just to throw it out there - with Van Exel now back and playing again, I've got a few more guys than I know what to do with. If anybody is interested in discussing a 2:1, 3:1, or 3:2 kind of trade to pick up a few extra players, drop me an email and let me know, and who you might be interested in. I'm especially in need of blocks and rebounds, but open to about anything since I can improve just about everywhere. I suppose I should probably keep a few extra healthy guys around with the huge rash of injuries around the league this season, but that would be boring.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 09:27

Swish - Another nice game by Ginobili with Duncan and Parker in the lineup last night. Indeed he is looking to be a fantastic pick.

Swish City
Leader
ID: 0931275
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 15:26

Hoops Yeah, real happy with Gino. His numbers are obviously slightly inflated with TD and Parker being out for a little while, but to be frank, i do not expect his numbers to decline that much upon their return. He is quickly becoming a key part of that Spurs team. I am not sure if posts 46 + 47 are an imposter (different id's), but if not, just wanted to say also, no offense was meant in post 44, it was just meant to playing on the Wade/Gino thing we had going. I am sure that Dwayne will earn his corn in Miami, and he has already posted a nice game since his return from injury.

It looks like Carmelo is starting to put it together too, which i'm happy about. A few more games such as his 26 point, 5 steal performance against Chicago would not go amiss. We seem to have lucked out on Earl Boykins, and the way things are going in Denver, we could end up with a starting PG on our hands if he stays on his current tear. Never saw that one coming at all, picking him up in Round 14.

TMac continues to make me go 'Ugh'. The NBA's leading scorer from last season cannot buy a bucket right now. The zone defense seems to be really getting to him, but a 4 point outing is not what we expect from our #1 pick. Our team will continue to struggle overall if TMac does not bring it every night.

On a general note, how are you guys enjoying RIHC so far? I can only speak for myself, but it's just been an immense experience to be playing with all these top echelon managers. It brings a real sense of achievement to scavenge the waiver wire and pick up anyone who can help your team, such is the foerocity of the competition. I just thought it was worth saying - i'm having an absolute hoot!! But Dave R, you need to give the rest of us a chance, dude!! :)

Mike D
Donor
ID: 23715270
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 15:31

Swish, curious as to how you would view a trade for TMac. I realize I'm not in this league, but in general, I'm wondering how an experienced TMac owner would view his current value. Other than the "everybody is tradeable" line, would you really be willing to move him for the right offer-----hypothetically?

Dave R
Dude
ID: 1367294
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 16:32

Swish City, I'll take Tmac off your hands :)

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 16:51

With my two top picks out (Duncan & Mashburn) and with Jason Richardson having only played 3 games, it has been a struggle so far. I am seriously behind in Pts and 3pts especially as my pick up replacements of Haslam and Cardinal do not help in these categories.
Hopefully with the return of Duncan and providing Richardson can find the 3pt range, I should move up in the rankings, although no one will be able to pass Dave R while Baron Davis keeps up his staggering pace.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 599312319
Tue, Nov 11, 2003, 21:10

So far, Doug has really gotten the best of me in the Raef/Miller for VC/Reggie deal. Andre has had some flashes of CLE days, so I'm holding out hope. Raef has been "lost"

Troy Murphy and Webber can't come back soon enough for me. I estimated Webber back at early to mid December at draft time, I think I missed the boat on him too. Knowing what I know now, I would have passed Webber in round 3.

No one on my team can shoot well or block a shot.

On the upside (Fg% aside on all). I'm happy with Eddie, Kidd, and RD. Hughes and Kittles are performing Ok. And, I think Jaric is going to be a good addition in the long run.

I have along way to go to move up, but as a wise person once said, "It's a marathon, not a sprint"

Off the beaten path but funny to me. I participate in a 20 team keeper league-- so talent is THIN. This is our second year. Even though it's 20 teams deep, I think that team can beat my RIHC team (sad). If I could transfer that team to this league, I'd start Arroyo, B Davis, Joe Johnson, Dunleavy @ G; Rashard, Vin, Camby, Tim Thomas @ F; JO, ZO at C; and Jahidi White, Joe Smith at Util. I didn't account for weighted average of Fg attempts, but if I entered the above team in this league, I'd have 66 points. I didn't spend much time on this analysis so, perhaps I made a few mistakes but it's amazing to me that I can be so smart in one draft and so sumb in another? Or perhaps the RIHC owners just don't miss a trick?

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:03

Hey Guru -

Can we get an updated listing like you have in post #27? Alternately, include it as an option on the RIHC standings page? Don't want to make extra work for you, but it's definitely helpful and interesting and just as meaningful as the actual standings (at least at this point in the season).

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:14

I would prefer not to see that :)

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:21

I totally agree!!

ukula
Donor
ID: 1710381312
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:22

I'd like to see that! :)

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:23

If you do show it please make a VERY LARGE adjustment for my lack of Mashburn and some Duncan!!

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 14:49

Here is a link to a page based on per game averages , rather than totals.

I haven't automated this, and I do think that is loses more and more value as the season wears on. Ukula is doing remarkably well, although it is not a given that he'll be able to make up his game shortfall at the same average cailber of his existing stats.

ukula
Donor
ID: 1710381312
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 15:30

Guru - I have confidence that my guys can keep up the pace because I only drafted players with "Game". ;)

I'm actually surprised I'm doing as well as I am because a lot of my 'name' players haven't played too much, Martin(injury), Maggette(schedule), QRichardson(schedule). My role players have come through for me (Donyell, Okur, Lue, etc..).

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Thu, Nov 13, 2003, 17:14

I agree that the "averages" will become less important as the season wears on, but less than a month into it I think they are still a good way to get a better handle on the areas you want to be more/less concerned about... where you are over/under-performing relative to expectations, etc. By Jan. 1 or so the averages will become far less relevant...

Swish City
Leader
ID: 0931275
Sat, Nov 15, 2003, 06:38

Well, took a flier on Eisley. He produced some nice numbers last year whilst starting, and with the Knicks heavy schedule, thought it would be silly not to take a wee gamble. I don't wholly understand the logic behind the whole Eisley/Ward situation, but sometimes you just need to forget logic and get lucky. Wanted Battie, only to find out bj21 took him through the night. Good call, bj21 - with LaFrentz on IL, that should be nice pickup.

#52 & #54 - TMac has officially been taken off the "hypothetical" trading block :)

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Sat, Nov 15, 2003, 07:46

Sorry Swish City - until 'Zo can revert to pre-season form or Keon Clark gets back, I'll try to limp along at the C position (or will consider trade offers...). Battie's always a health risk, but for a plug-in for a few weeks, he should be OK.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Nov 15, 2003, 09:21

Swish City - I don't see how Eisley's heavy schedule is any benefit in this game. For some players, it can even be a negative, since minutes for regulars can sometimes be redistributed to bench players during heavy schedule periods.

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Sat, Nov 15, 2003, 16:25

Randolph is really paying off for me... in a different league, I just traded him for Paul Pierce!

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Mon, Nov 17, 2003, 18:27

Hey Coldwater. Got the trade offer. I'll need to mull it over tonight.. will reply as soon as I can...

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Nov 18, 2003, 09:41

None of my top picks are performing up to expectations, and yet I'm still in the middle of the pack.

However, I think I'm in some trouble now, with Ward and Swift both losing significant minutes.

Shooting percentages continue to confound. Pierce is shooting only 38% (who does he think he is - Antoine Walker?), Snow is at 34% (he shot 45% last year), Nesterovic is only 41% (and as a big man, he should be around 50%). My team average is 42%, and I was expecting something in the 45% range. Yech!

ukula
Donor
ID: 3810571812
Tue, Nov 18, 2003, 14:02

I couldn't be happier with my team so far. Everyone's producing and I love having more games left than everyone else. When your center (Brad Miller) gets 11 assists you know you're doing good. According to my calculations I'm above average in every category (based on per game averages). No complaints here.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 599312319
Tue, Nov 18, 2003, 20:45

... before I forget, I am going to be on vacation from 11/22 to 11/28. I will have sporadic access to the internet, but can't guarantee I'll be around to make trades or respond to offers

I'll set my line up in advance and keep my fingers crossed.

Rand
Donor
ID: 339221320
Tue, Nov 18, 2003, 22:43

enjoy the vacation, rfs!

I've been pretty impatient trying to get some spark into my line-up, so I sacrificed my waiver priority for a Junk Yard Dog. In other leagues I'd probably hold on longer for something tastier, but I'm thinkin' that with the size of our line-ups and benches, not much quality is gonna drop to the waiver wire. Will Jerome Williams be worth it? His Board production should be solid, and I'm hoping he helps breath some life into my anemic Steal category.

Obviously I'm anxiously awaiting the return of Elton Brand. He should help my team make a dramatic improvement. Fortunately, the Clips schedule has been weak to start the season, so maybe I won't lose too many Brand starts? Anyway, my team's not that good, but Brand might make it slightly respectable (kinda like the Clippers, i guess).

peace guys, and thanks to all for a great league:)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Nov 20, 2003, 09:15

Well, I'm now scavenging other people's trash. Added both Mihm and Dale Davis, both who were recently dropped by other teams. I needed some servicable bench players, and Voskuhl and Foyle were not game-worthy at this point.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Thu, Nov 20, 2003, 12:33

Guru,

I was going to pick up Mihm, but didn't want to use a wiver claim. He would have been gone by 6A MST if you didn't get him last night.

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 444181610
Thu, Nov 20, 2003, 12:40

I had the same idea on Mihm.

Rand
Donor
ID: 364152215
Thu, Nov 20, 2003, 12:49

Yup, I regret dropping him so quick. Not that I
think he'll have much of a fantasy impact, but it
would have been worth taking advantage of
this hot streak. Oh well, at least I got JYD in
time for his worst game ever. lol.

btw, anyone interested in TJ Ford?

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 00:56

A few thoughts while watching the Dallas-SA game from earlier tonight on TiVo: Even with the added talent, I feel like Dallas isn't as good a team this year. Doesn't look like Nowitski is touching the ball enough to ever get a rhythym. The entire team shooting % is down it seems, lots of airballs and bad shots, probably because nobody gets any consistancy.

I'll admit after the Boston-Dallas trade I expected Pierce to just go off this season. I haven't seen any Celtics games out here on the west coast. Is he not aggressive, or is he always doubled? Watching Antoine now, too, I think about what he could have done in Boston this season. 9.5 reb/game in less minutes? Now that FT%, though...

Also noticed that Jason Kidd is leading the NBA in assists at 9.5/game, no surprise. Steve Nash second at 8.2. Those numbers don't seem like they would even place them in the top 5 10 years ago! Looks like the stat has been declining slowly since Stockton's 14.5/game in 1990, dropped almost every year since then. Lower-scoring games certainly a factor, but with teams implimenting the offenses like Sacramento and New Jersey are, with so much passing and cutting, I would have thought it would be back on the rise a bit this year.

Glad I wasn't around to watch last night though - all of my top 4 draft picks sat out with injuries. Not good for the stats. Hope I don't come to regret the Dale Davis drop. Even though the minutes were there, from watching a few games it seemed like he had been losing rebounds and opportunities to Randolph. His role in the offense was to wander out to the corner and watch from there, it seemed.

Everybody else willing to vote for a two-week break right now for the entire league to get healthy (and practice their shots)?

KnicksFan
Donor
ID: 30815418
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 02:15

I think a factor is that the forwards and centers in the league are better passers these days. Many teams run inside-outside games, so the frontline gets a lot of the assists.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 08:59

I just ran an updated version of the standing based on per-game averages, rather than totals.

Here it is: link

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 12:55

regarding count D's high per game /low total game standing

Directly extrapolating his eventual score may be overly optimistic since FT%/FG% (2 of the 8 categories) really are independent of games played and since the games he rotates in to catch up to the pace will most likely be from near waiver quality players and bring down his per game averages.

Not that I want to discourage anyone...just a thought

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 13:08

Hoops, I like that line of thinking :)

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 13:19

Actually, the same is true of any of the stats categories. If the players used to generate additional games are of less-than-average quality, then those categories will not be maintainable at those per-game averages.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 14:34

I was refering to all of the stat categories for the remaining filler games

ukula
Donor
ID: 20831621
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 15:09

A lot of my game deficit is from teams with sparse schedules. We'll see. We'll see.

ukula
Donor
ID: 20831621
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 15:22

A quick analysis:

The average number of games played by an NBA team is currently 11.24

My best players are all (except Baron Davis) below that average.

Houston (11)
Maggette (8)
Davis (12)
Marion (11)
Gasol (10)
Martin (11) plus injury time off
Miller (11)
Richardson (8)

A lot of my current stats have been accumulated with those marginal players that you speak of.

On the other hand I'm sure there are RIHC owners who have benefited from an above average schedule from their best players. There are two sides to every argument.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 16:00

the sparse schedule factor I did not think of...that would help to improve the filler per game output!

ukula
Donor
ID: 20831621
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 16:08

I played 116 games -

This is approx the distribution (did it by hand)

Top players:

Houston - 11
Maggette - 8
Davis - 12
Marion - 11
Gasol - 10
Martin - 6
Miller - 11
Richardson - 8

Total Top Players - 79

Others:

Lue - 12
Marshall - 7
Collins - 3
McInnis - 5
Okur - 2
Olowokandi - 7
Banks - 3

Total Other Players - 39

Ratio 79/116 =
68% of games from Top Players
32% of games from Other Players

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 17:00

ukula
your top three players have averaged 11 games which is on par with the leage-your prospects would be even better if they had abnormally sparse schedules

Magette should give you some muscle unless Brand comes back sooner

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 19:19

Guru, your link goes to avg111303.html but should actually go to avg112103.html

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Nov 21, 2003, 22:32

Oops. Doug is correct. The updated per-game standings are at http://rotoguru1.com/hoop/RIHC/avg112103.html.

Geez, another senior moment...

(I'll fix the link above as well.)

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 58924269
Sat, Nov 22, 2003, 11:18

I guess I hadn't realized that I was so far behind in total games played. Still, 11th place is disappointing, but I can at least expect to make up some of my game deficit with legit starters in Webber & Murphy.

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 310412511
Tue, Nov 25, 2003, 12:41

if a player does not play but is in your lineup do you get credited for a game played?

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Nov 25, 2003, 12:54

No. To count, the player must actually appear in the game.

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 289471616
Tue, Nov 25, 2003, 13:37

As a follow-up to Guru's reponse:

The fact that the game doesn't count against you if they don't play can help in some game-time decisions if you don't know if someone will play or not. Seemed simple to me, just leave someone in there if it's up in the air. If they play, great, if not, no loss. It's worked fine for me for the times Jermaine O'Neal was in question.

This did come back to bite me once or twice already, though. The best example I could think of was when Derek Anderson was still day-to-day with back spasms and not yet on the IL. I left him on the active roster just in case he played, and lost a game when he checked in for 3 minutes and shot 1-2 from the foul line one night. That one free throw certainly wasn't worth the cost of one of my player games! So I've become a little more cautious about leaving questionable players in the lineup since then.

Hope this helps!

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Tue, Dec 02, 2003, 02:21

Been a while since any conversation here so I thought I'd give it a try:

I will admit I've been giddy since Cartwright was fired from Chicago, hopefully Crawford will continue to play better to make me not look so foolish for drafting him #42. Could make Jerome Williams even more valuable for Rand now, since Skiles probably will like his style. Between Crawford's game and O'Neal's 8 blocks tonight, I won't even let things like Artest's DNP and Baker and Welsch's bad games bug me too much. And Drobnjak ... nice knowing ya, it was fun while it lasted.

By the way, even in fantasy basketball it looks like chemistry and karma count. I think I can directly trace my rebound the last week or two to November 21 when I dropped Christian Laettner from my roster. Meanwhile, I don't know how he's been doing for BJis21, but I'll warn you to exorcise the demons while you can!

Is there a more worthless fantasy player who starts for their NBA team than Bruce Bowen?

If we still had the Art Glover award I think I'd have to submit myself for nomination for being suckered for what, the third straight year I think, by Kwame and Darius Miles, in back-to-back picks no less. Every year I swear I've learned my lesson.

jseth333
Sustainer
ID: 51134417
Mon, Dec 08, 2003, 17:08

Having never played a yahoo roto game, I was wondering if the game site tracked the individual games played per slot or is that something you have to do on your own.

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 501142420
Mon, Dec 08, 2003, 20:05

jseth333,

The link below tracks total games we have played so far. Yahoo gives each manager a tracking of games played per position as well as projected totals. I'm pretty far behin in GP (and -2, -8, -8 -11 in projectiosn for G/F/C/U)

games played overall

Well, I've finally put several major work projects behind me. That's the only reason I have been MIA in posting. I haven't let my team slide in the sense of chaning lineups, but I have been silent on the commentary side. *sigh* I don't see any help on the FA wire (besides too many sharks here; didn't even get Diaw because I waited until the next morning).

I've also made horrible decsions in starting Raef/Coleman/Mutombo/Booth-- not that that is a stellar group, but I have missed every conveivable "good" game for a "bad" one. I'd trade all 4 of those guys for 1 decent C!

Webber is coming back much later than my projections and of course Murphy wasn't hurt when I drafted him. I may take some chances with trades soon -- I have little to lose being in 11th place. Webber/Murph will help me sooner or later, but I need to make some moves.

100

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Dec 09, 2003, 10:30

That didn't take long. Here's the trade, subject to review:

Rand gets Haslem, Kittles, and LaFrentz

rockafellerskank gets Ford, Brian Grant, Murray, and Jerome Williams. rfs will also drop Booth.

I'm curious as to the rationale for each side.

101

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Wed, Dec 10, 2003, 14:01

Rationale for me isn't earth-shattering. Obviously, this isn't the kind of deal that will bring to respectability, but it will help. For the record, Rand proposed the deal to me.

Haslem has lost most of his value as a non-starter and Raef has performed poorly and there is talk of season ending knee surgery. Obviously the key guy that Rand wanted was Kittles. Since I am guard heavy, I can take the loss of Kittles. AD's value is slightly less with CHI than TOR, so Grant will help make up for that too.

Although Brain Grant is not spectaucular, he is stead and an entrenched starter. I've got problems with aoll my starting Cs, so this helps me in that position and gets me 10/10 points/rebs. I think (projection here) that Ford will be a servicable guard as he gains NBA experience. Obviously the luster is off Murray, but he will surlery have some more "hot streaks" and may even end up as a candidate for 6th man of the hear.

Frankly, I'm hoping the combo of Ford/Murray can equal Kittles. I consider BG an upgrade from Haslem/Booth et al.. Junk yard? He always seems to find a way to contribute on each new team he lands on.. it just takes them a while to realize it.

102

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Wed, Dec 10, 2003, 17:41

I've been dropping in the rankings lately, in small part because I have only been starting 11 players. Butler and Szczerbiak have been hurting me the most... I expected Wally back by now, and Butler has been a huge dissappointment thus far. It's encouraging to see him back on the court playing 37 minutes, even if it was an ugly performance. I'll sit tight, but am hopeful that his game will return once he shakes off the rust over the next few days. Mohammed also isn't performing to the level I had hoped... I was expecting 6th-man quality numbers... 10/10 off the bench, etc. Even Dirk's numbers have been sub-par so far, and I'm hopeful that Camby will stay healthy for a while (famous last words) and that Van Horn will pick up a game his bit... I like my team on paper, but it just isn't producing thus far...

As for the RFS/Rand trade... I think Murray was just being "taught a lesson" and will revert to 75% of his early season numbers (which is still amazingly good for an undrafted player)... at least until Ray Allen returns, which looks to be quite a ways off. Personally, I think the trade helps RFS... and is pretty neutral for Rand.

103

Rand
Donor
ID: 339221320
Thu, Dec 11, 2003, 16:52

The truth is I'd had some VERY strong beers when I proposed this trade to rfs. That might explain things a little:) I actually didn't know at the time that Raef might be having season ending surgery, so that was a mistake on my part. It's easy to say that Murray is gonna be this, or he's gonna be that, especially after he puts up some decent nights. He may be a poorman's Michael Redd, or not, but I decided to use him to get Kittles, who gives me a player I can start with confidence.
I didn't want to ride the Flip rollercoaster any longer. Just wanted to be sure I got something for him. Of course, I'm having my regrets, and I let my frustration get the better of me, but tomorrow is another day.

I don't need much help with assists, so Ford was useless to me since he hasn't really brought much else. And, obviously, his shooting has been dreadful. I like JYD, but I had no plans to play him. I've got other guys to grab me boards, and he doesn't bring much else to the table.

If Grant gets his fg% up he should be a very good addition to rock's team. But I have been seriously underwhelmed by his performance thus far.

In my mind, I packaged up a bunch of fringe starters (for my team), and replaced them with one quality starter. And another guy who I had hoped might turn things around this year as he gets comfortable with the Celtics. I kinda wish now that I had asked for more than Lafrentz and Haslim as the additional players. but what can you do?

I also believe that if rfs' team is better by this trade, then I indirectly gain an advantage by that as well. I'm just happy to have cut some of the fat off of my team. To streamline it a bit. I had felt handcuffed by some of these guys, guys who were too good to cut, but not good enough to use up my games played on. Anyway, I'm just hoping Kittles puts up Jordanesque numbers so I won't look like I got take to the cleaners;)

104

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 501142420
Sun, Dec 14, 2003, 20:54

Rand, Sorry about the Raef news. I figured you must have known that when you made the offer.

So far so good with Ford + Grant + Murray today.

106

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Dec 16, 2003, 10:35

Will be interesting to see how the Boston/Cleveland trade impacts my team. Pierce had finally been putting up studly numbers, and that has probably been a key reason for my team's recent rise to the middle of the pack. Hopefully, he'll still find a way to max out his numbers.

Mihm, however, is the one I'm more interested in. He should get more PT. The question is whether it will be more productive. He was a marginal player before. Will he now earn a regular starting spot on my team?

I realize I'm building up an excess of assists, and that may provide a trading opportunity at some point. But for now, I think I need to see how Mihm develops.

107

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Tue, Dec 16, 2003, 13:06

For those interested in trading...I would be interested in trading for treys/steals. I can offer points/reb/ast/blocks

108

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 31649212
Thu, Dec 18, 2003, 19:48

Every time I look to pick up a free agent, he's already gone. This league is brutal!

109

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 501142420
Thu, Dec 18, 2003, 19:59

**************ADVERTISEMENT *************

If I get a player that could help me, I'd be willing to punt BLKs totally and send Mutumbo and his nearly 2.0 BS/G to someone. How many points in the standings could you move up with his blocks?

I'm not looking to rob the bank here, just want to get a decent player back that can help me in any category. Do you have extra assists, 3's, steals on your bench? Trade them to me.

*********** ADVERTISEMENT OVER **********

110

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 501142420
Fri, Dec 19, 2003, 19:44

I think I can use D. George for spot duty. Obviously, I'm not getting out of the basement in blocks. And, With McD and Kurt Thomas, I'm not confident of Mutombo' playing time/matchups.

111

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Fri, Dec 19, 2003, 22:19

Re: trade: George for Mutombo.
Devon George has been good for me, but I'm hoping Troy Hudson can fill some of his shoes if he's off the IL soon, and Deke can be the Keon Clark I never had. With Skinner coming back and a likely diminshed role for Gadzuric, I am in dire need of a C. Crazy Eyes, I love you but I hope you get traded.

112

ukula
Donor
ID: 20831621
Wed, Dec 24, 2003, 00:33

Can someone give me a direct link to our league page? For some reason my computer freezes up on the Yahoo fantasy opening page. I'm hoping a direct link will bypass the problem until I get rid of this piece of crap computer and get a new one.

I know some of you have sent trade offers but I really haven't been able to look them over due to this problem.

Thanks

ukula

113

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Dec 24, 2003, 06:50

League page

114

ukula
Donor
ID: 541121248
Wed, Dec 24, 2003, 09:23

Thanks Guru. Hopefully that will solve the problem when I get home tonight.

115

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 501142420
Sun, Dec 28, 2003, 19:28

On Dec 12th I had only 26 points, it may not seem like much to harp about, but 34.5 starting today is a nice improvement in 2 weeks. Hopefully, I can be out of 11th place soon. I think both my trades with Rand and blackjack have worked well for my team.

116

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Wed, Jan 07, 2004, 18:48

Wow, this thread fell to page 2.

Thanks Dave R, but I don't want to part with any assists. That's one area I think I can gain points over the course of the year. The extra REBs + PTs would be nice, but I'm close to Webber time anyway.

117

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 08, 2004, 12:19

With Harpring's status very uncertain, and with Ward in limbo - but probably relegated to a backup role regardless of his landing place - I think I'm in a heap o' trouble.

Time to punt a category in search of improvement elsewhere. The most likely category that I could deal away is points, and possibly some assists, although with Ward's situation, I don't want to get too aggressive there.

I've already propped one trade which is currently awaiting a reply. Meanwhile, if anyone is looking for scoring, all players are available, including Pierce. There are a lot of categories in which I could improve, so I'm not as fussy about the source of the gains - although I'm not interested in more assists.

118

ukula
ID: 54044811
Thu, Jan 08, 2004, 12:47

There's trouble on Count Dracukula - Kenyon Martin and Corey Maggette get into a fight and each is suspended 2 games. Way to go guys!

119

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Thu, Jan 08, 2004, 13:00

Guru, it's times like these I wish we could trade "across" leagues. ;)

120

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 08, 2004, 15:48

So far, I've had one offer rejected, and I've rejected one as well. I currently have two more offers to consider, but I have some other commitments for the next several hours. I'll try to respond to those two offers (and any others) later tonight. (Both offers involve Pierce, BTW.)

121

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Jan 09, 2004, 11:22

Well, the ball has started to roll. My first trade sends Pierce and Mark Blount to Dave R in return for Kirilenko and Posey.

On the surface, this helps both teams. I gain in steals and blocks, and lose points and assists. I'm punting the points category, and I'm highly ranked in assists. The risk is that I may have given up too many assists. I have a big surplus now, but who knows whether Charlie Ward will be able to contibute anything.

Dave R should benefit from the points and assists. I suspect his biggest concern is whether his blocks and steals are solid enough to withstand the give-up.

Impact on the other 4 categories appears to be reasonably neutral.

We'll see.

Meanwhile, I don't think I'm done with trading needs. I still have an offer on the table to ponder, and I may prop some others.

122

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Fri, Jan 09, 2004, 11:43

I had a hard time convincing myself that it was wise to trade Kiri. Long term I think I'm better off for the reasons Guru mentioned. I'm most concerned about the blocks I give up.
Hopefully the return of Chandler soon ( my fingers are crossed ) might help there.

I had recieved other offers for Kiri but felt this was the best for my team.

123

philflyboy
Leader
ID: 407561421
Fri, Jan 09, 2004, 17:54

after a very frustrating start and a very disappointing first half of the season, I want to improve my team and see how far I can make it up the standings. I am looking to trade away points and assists to get some rebounding and blocks. I have been talking to some of you about trades but nothing has been set in stone. If you are looking to help your team with people like Ray Allen then make me an offer.

124

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Sat, Jan 10, 2004, 03:43

Well, things sure have picked up a lot the last few days!

A few quick thoughts on the Welsch-Harrington deal with Coldwater and I:

Although I am badly in need of rebounds, I had been a bit nervous about picking up Harrington for three reasons 1) the impeding return of Jonathon Bender 2) his decreasing production over the last few weeks and 3) carrying three Pacers on my team.

In return, I like Welsch but was okay giving him up because with the addition of Barbosa and Derek Anderson coming off the IR, I just don't have room for all the guards. Welsch's value is a bit decieving because he start or play much the first month like he is now. Since the start of December, Welsch is hitting nearly 50% of his 3's and averaging 1.6 a game, along with a decent amount of steals and assists. I didn't make the trade because I didn't think Welsch was valuable, but just that I had too many similar players now with Barbosa and Anderson, so swapping one of them for someone who can help out on rebounds made sense.

Speaking of Barbosa, I am a little nervous after watching the Sacramento-Phoenix game on ESPN tonight. I had been really excited to pick him up because I really like his game and seemed like a no-brainer as the most talented PG once Marbury was gone. I then decided to give up my top waiver priority for Eisley just as insurance, in case I was completely wrong and Barbosa was still going to be a minimal backup and Eisley would play the majority of the minutes. I hoped I couldn't lose - whichever way the Sunds decided to go, I gained a starting, well-producing point guard out of it all. Unfortunately, it looks like neither is the case, and if the Suns continue to split the minutes (26 for Barbosa and 24 for Eisley tonight) in the style of the recent Knicks, thereby killing either players value, then I could lose on both ends. Oops.

125

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Sun, Jan 11, 2004, 10:53

Like a few others, we've decided to put the wheels in motion to try to improve on our deficiencies. The primary result of this decision is Hinrich for Kenny Thomas, which was concluded with Coldwater yesterday.

Our aims out of the trade were pretty simple - to increase our rather shocking FG% and get some more rebounding. I think Kenny addresses that pretty much. We looked at a variety of guys - our ideal probably would have been PJ Brown, but we also tried to tap Coldwater for Kurt Thomas before settling for Kenny. We actually don't lose too much in the way of steals, and we felt we could cope with the drop in assists - as we are doing pretty good there. Our acquisition of Knight should help out with steals and assists in the short term, and buys us some time till Gino gets back.

From CC's point of view, he obviously gets a nice bump in 3s, assists, and steals - all cats he can improve in.

On a general note, the Euros have been treading water over the last few weeks. Various injuries have hindered us, but now that Amare is coming back with his new #1/2 option status in Phoenix, we're hoping to make some inroads on our rebounding and FG% problems. Some nice pickups have helped us - hopefully Pavlovic can contribute something now Harpring is out for a few months at least, and Knight is a nice steal generating fill in for Arenas. And in a way, it's quite nice to get Tinsley back since we originally drafted him and he did not perform at all. Hopefully he can hold on to his job when the Indy PG quartet are all healthy.

126

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Jan 11, 2004, 16:56

The way things are going, I may still be losing ground, even after the Kirilenko trade.

Harpring is now out for the year.

Rasheed has missed 2 games, and may be traded - with who knows what impact.

Ward is now the backup PG on San Antonio.

Jason Terry has been in a funk lately, although some of that was due to the flu.

During December, I thought I was getting back on track. Now everything seems to be derailing.

Tough year....

127

rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 27652109
Sun, Jan 11, 2004, 18:23

I hope the flip side of that possible 'Sheed trade is for Jamison into the POR lineup as a regular. That would help me tremendously.

128

Coldwater Coyotes
ID: 2411332211
Wed, Jan 14, 2004, 18:09

Swish City...I could have used Hinrich last nite.

129

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Wed, Jan 21, 2004, 09:05

Guru, awhile back you ran projections based on per game averages rather than totals. I'd be interested in seeing it updated, if possible.

Or then again, maybe I wouldn't ;)

130

ukula
ID: 42035218
Wed, Jan 21, 2004, 09:44

Dave R - I check them every once in a while and through yesterday it's pretty much a dead heat between the two of us. It's all a matter of who wants it more I guess. ;)

131

Edgar
ID: 16027232
Wed, Jan 21, 2004, 11:11

CC Hinrich gaves us a nice last game but Kenny gave us two DNPs right away! Good thing he is back on court right now. It seems the best we can do is fight for third place because we think Dave R and Ukula cannot be caught with our current squad. Most important is to get our guys healthy and playing. Especially the one contributing to rebs because we could do a lot better in that cat. than we are doing now.

Guru I think you have suffered some real bad luck. Especially when Rasheed gets traded!

132

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 03:08

Okay, I know I'm like a bad drug addict on a relapse now, but I just had to add Miles back to my roster after he got traded to Portland. I don't actually expect him to start putting up great numbers there now, and he's burned me so many times over the last three years I think I've lost count. But I had to do it because ... well, if he gets any PT and if Rasheed gets traded and if Miles just happens to suddenly be a great fit in their offense and if and if and if a hundred other things that aren't likely to happen ... well, I think after all those times getting burned I would be even more frustrated if I missed out on the one time he finally paid off. And I'm typing this fully expecting to drop him again in a week or two, but at least I'll do so sure that I didn't miss out on anything.

As I've mentioned to two other owners in the last few weeks during trade discussions, Derek Anderson's return has put me overloaded at the guard position. If anybody is in search of some 3's, steals, or even points, I'd certainly be open to any offers for someone like Voshon Lenard, who can give an immediate contribution in those categories. I'd be open to any fair offer for any guard, and would be looking for rebounding and/or blocks in return.

133

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 09:13

Per Dave R's request, I updated the standings based on per-game averages through games of 1/21.

134

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Thu, Jan 22, 2004, 12:36

Somehow I knew I wouldn't want to see it

135

Edgar
Leader
ID: 458944
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 03:20

Hmm Dave R maybe this looks a little worse to you but sinve most of us are behind the average number of games it is my expectation that the teams with games in hand will need to get games from players with less potential. I guess 2nd half of the season you will have about the same trouble getting quality games. So a per game average standings is somewhat inflated; having the points now provides you with an advantage. However it could be different for teams with a high quality player still on the IL.

136

WinterKnight
ID: 556232121
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 22:08

Overall standings are really spread out. Are the folks at the top that much better when it comes to fanasty basketball or just luckier?

137

Rand
Donor
ID: 83231216
Fri, Jan 23, 2004, 23:40

Rand Dragons has agreed to trade Steve Francis/Tayshaun Prince to Philflyboy for his Ray Allen/Tony Parker. Francis and Prince have been putting up good numbers lately but I'm pretty happy to get Ray Allen. I'd almost decided to just stop thinking about the 3 point category all together, but when pfb sent me this offer, I thought it would be fun to try and improve that cat.

Francis/Prince have provided me with nice numbers across the board but I think that Allen should have a very positive impact on my standings in this league. I hope to see Olowakandi playing in a few weeks to help replace the blocks and rebs I might be losing by dealing Francis/Prince. I don't know much about Tony Parker to be honest. I've never had him in any type of league, but I obviously hope he can help me out as much or more than Prince did.

138

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 05:44

Another (pending) trade of note... Vince Carter for Ron Artest. If you look at their last month averages, their stat lines are remarkably similar. I'm expecting Artest will mainly improve my FG% and Steals compared to Vinsanity. I'm giving up some assists (which I don't care about) and also some FT% (where I'm already strong enough and it's not like Artest is a wannabe Shaq)... but the main loss for me in this trade are Vince's potential points... lately he's only been averaging about the same as Artest, but I think if any of us had to bet on who would score more points the rest of the way, we'd see a lot of bets on Carter.

Both players also carry a little baggage... Carter seems slightly injury prone, but Artest seems more prone to suspensions.

Anyway, hopefully a trade that helps both teams... we had been discussing it and variations on it for a couple weeks (pending Carter's return from minor injury) and none of the other multiple-player variations seemed to make as much sense for both sides as the straight-up swap which we submitted to the site tonight.

139

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 22:58

My thoughts on the Artest/Carter deal: Doug is right that their stat lines over the last month are incredibly similar, but each might hopefully be more valuable to their new teams. Artest's greatest benefit, other than his ability to contribute in just about every category, is his place among the top of the league in steals. With the return of Iverson and Derek Anderson, I felt like they could make up for what I'd be giving away in steals. Meanwhile, Vince's worst category is FG%, but with Iverson, Walker, and Crawford already, I'm pretty much shot in that category so he can't hurt me as much. Already carrying Al Harrington and Jermaine O'Neal, I liked the opportunity to diversify a bit. Carter's always a risk, but I still want to move up a few spots in the standings and I wasn't going to do it by standing pat.

140

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Sat, Jan 31, 2004, 13:08

Any RIHC'ers/Belly'ers interested in a Yahoo baseball league? I know many of you are in plenty of leagues already, but if anyone's interested, I'd love to put together some kind of competitive league.

Haven't given it much thought, but would prefer enough teams/positions to make the waiver wire fairly slim pickings. I'd be open to H2H or roto, maybe with a slight prefernce to H2H. Maybe standard 5X5, non-keeper - everything's open to discussion.

If interested, send me an e-mail. I'll start a thread for discussion if it looks like there's enough interest.

Feel free to suggest a league name too, for that matter.

141

Doug
ID: 31649212
Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 17:08

I find it somewhat amusing that both Carter and Artest suffer multiple-week injuries so shortly after our trade!!!

142

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 09:34

Rand Can you please get back to me asap about what we were talking about a few days ago. I've sent you a couple of emails already.

143

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 09:44

Just a reminder that our last trade date is Thursday, March 4.

144

Rand
Donor
ID: 83231216
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 11:38

Swish, email sent, sorry for the delay.

145

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 15:16

I smell a trade brewing

146

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 20:32

Finally Webber back for me tonight. I was only off by 2.5 full months in my expectations (8 game suspensiondidn't help). Making him a high 3rd round pick was certainly not a great move on my part. I realize injuries are part of the game, but Webber, Murphy, and to some extent DC, Hughes and Ford have hurt me for a lot of missed player games.

Add those injuries to the fact that I've been hurt by NBA trades. Jamison, RD, AD, and Junk Yard all have been less effective because they weere traded and used differently than my projections.

All that being said, I think I hve an outside shot of finishing as high as 8th if I get healthy and hot. Maybe that will be good enough to earn me a "sympathy spot" in RIHC next year.

147

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Mar 02, 2004, 20:37

I might be open to moving Webber for 2 legit players I can start. I may be floating some offers out there to those that might be able to use him. Not gonna make this a fire sale, but it might make sense for me.

148

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Wed, Mar 03, 2004, 09:42

Edgar and I are also looking to get something done before the deadline. We are willing to shop TMac and Carmelo (among others) to get what we're after. We still think we have a shot at the podium, so expect, and be ready to respond to a deal coming your way soon!

149

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Thu, Mar 04, 2004, 18:13

philflyboy We've proposed you a trade that's been sitting there for most of the day now, well in the UK it has anyway. Please get in touch urgently when you get this. Hopefully we can still work something out before the deadline expires.

Did someone say frantic? :)

150

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Fri, Mar 05, 2004, 19:11

In the only trade on deadline day, Edgar and I dealt Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh to Rand for Zydraunus Ilgauskaus and Joe Smith. For a few weeks now, we've been trying to isolate which cats we can do well in with only around 20 games left; blocks and rebounds being the main ones. This trade reflects these needs. Z has been great lately, blocking shots like a crazy man over the last half dozen games or so. We also get a few more rebounds from him than Melo was providing. I have to say that it was really tough to give up Carmelo with him being so hot of late, but with games running out, this was the best deal we could make to improve our overall position. The Smith for Bosh part of the deal was really just a like for like swap to give Rand the replacement at C he was looking for.

Being honest, I am a little disappointed we weren't able to cut a deal to get another top tier big man. If we had managed that, i would have really liked our chances of chasing down 2nd place. With what we have, the rebounds chase will be very tight, and there was a lot of block point potential if we had managed to snag an AK47, Wallace or Brand type shot blocker on top of Z. Still, the deal we made makes things interesting and gives us a chance for upwards progression, so we're pretty happy on the whole.

151

Rand
Donor
ID: 83231216
Sun, Mar 07, 2004, 00:18

I wasn't too sure about this trade, but Swish/Edgar really really wanted something to happen and I eventually couldn't say no. Originally, they offered me TMac for Brand, which was awesome but I just can't couldn't part with Elton Brand. Then Melo for Zydranus, which I was planning to reject, but then they came back with Melo/Bosh for Z/Smith and it started to look inviting. I crunched the numbers and couldn't come up with anything conclusive as to whether this trade will actually benifit me in any way. I don't know if I can possibly catch the 5th place team at this point, but I could lose ground to guru/blackjack.

Part of me thought it wiser to just stay with what was working OK so far and not rock the boat, but then I decided it would be interesting to add some young spark to my team and see what transpires. Lebron/Carmelo/Bosh all on the same team should be fun to watch. Of course, Z had a huge night tonight and Joe Smith is back with a double double and Anthony sucked big time. ah well:)

152

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Sun, Mar 07, 2004, 07:54

[whine]With Kobe out again and Malone sounding like he's still out for awhile, I don't think anyone needs to worry about me gaining on them.[/whine]

replace []'s with <>'s.

153

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Sun, Mar 07, 2004, 12:34

Well Rand, i'm glad we managed to work something out in the end. The truth is that i had totally forgotten about the deadline until Guru mentioned it in this thread. What ensued was a crazy few days of us desperately trying to negotiate a trade that could help us. I never thought it would be so difficult to offload TMac! It was just unfortunate that the teams containing the players we were looking for did not require, or want, to chase cats that he helps with. Very frustrating indeed.

I guess it just goes to show the quality and savvy of our fellow managers in this league. This is by far the most serious Yahoo league i've been involved with, and continues to be a great experience.

154

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Mon, Mar 08, 2004, 04:31

Sorry I've been away without computer access for about a week now, but luckily I didn't miss anybody trying to get ahold of me for a deadline deal. Probably best that I was away and not thinking about trades to save me from myself!

Doug, I did laugh last week when, even funnier, both Artest and Carter even returned from their injuries on the same night! So I'm glad it's a wash so neither side gets a rough break.

Unfortunately I left Santa Clara this afternoon and didn't get to stick around for the crazy Santa Clara-Gonzaga game tonight ... great environment for a great game though, at least landed in time to see the second half on TV.

155

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 02:12

LPG - That was rather amusing when Carter/ Artest returned the same night. And tonight they went head to head and both posted very solid, similar lines... lol. They must be monitoriing RIHC. =-) You live in this area, or just visiting (I'm in Palo Alto)? If you or any other RotoGuru folks are around, I'd be happy to meet up for a beer. catch a game, etc...

Swish/Edgar... I'd send email about this, but I don't know your address. I offered you a trade of KVH and Reggie Miller for Amare and Manu a bit over a week ago, and you got real upset in your reply, accusing me of offering an unfair trade. It's one thing if you don't like the trade, but I didn't appreciate the accusation. I thought it was a good deal for both teams, but it seemed you were not interested in the categories that I thought you would be (FT% and 3P in particular).

Since March 2 (when it presumably would have executed), my duo vs. your duo:
15.25 to 16.17 PPG
3.50 to 6.50 RPG
2.75 to 2.17 APG
0.63 to 1.50 SPG
0.50 to 0.67 BPG
2.13 to 0.17 3PG
0.49 to 0.56 FG%
0.95 to 0.83 FT%

So again, I don't know how you perceived this trade to be so wildly unfair. Undesirable? Perhaps... depends on your team goals in various categories. You were going a different direction with your team than I thought you would, and that's fine. But unfair? I think not, and I certainly don't appreciate the implication.

156

Edgar
ID: 30214100
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:43

Doug you are right that this is not what we wanted, and that we were a little offended. Amare has been a top fantasy player lately and we did not want to lose him. We have a lot to win in the FG, reb and blocking deptments, where we can move up. Not much to win in 3pts and fts, so that is why. And we only gain something in those cats (other than assists where we already have plenty of players). So we do not want to accuse you of anything, it just did not look like a good deal at all. No harm intended.

157

hoopsklyce
ID: 52401120
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:40

Hey - I am suprised no one has demanded Net Damage and HoopsKlyce provide analysis of our blockbuster Drew Gooden for L. Barbosa Deal!

158

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 04:27

Haha - Hoopsklyce, a few weeks later and I still think we can both be proud that we don't have to worry about giving up anything of too much value!

Doug, thanks for the offer, I would have loved to take you up on it but I'm afraid I'm back in Southern California again now. I was visiting Santa Clara for the WCC basketball tournament for a few days but didn't stick around for the Gonzaga/SMC final on Monday night. I was up in Palo Alto in October, though, for a weekend of soccer and water polo games at Stanford during the first few rounds of the RIHC Draft. Somehow I have to find a way use that long road trip as an excuse for getting really confused and drafting Nick Van Exel in the 5th round, I think that already holds the distinction of the highest drafted player to get cut from any of our teams!

159

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Sat, Mar 13, 2004, 13:50

Nice try LPG... you took Nick the (not so) Quick at 5.11, but I took Caron Butler at 5.07!!! Talk about disappointment. My only other mid-round pick that didn't work out was 8.06, Wally the Consonant.

Still, I don't have the dishonour of highest pick to be dropped... I believe Guru won that slot by drafting Harpring at 4.05 (tough break!)

Fortunately the rest of my early and mid-round picks were pretty solid... especially Peja at 2.11

I just wish I would have taken KG instead of Dirk at #2! But I thought the C-eligibility was worth it at the time.

160

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Mar 13, 2004, 14:16

Just a heads up: I started a RIHC Retrospective thread for your reflections on the entire RIHC experience.

161

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Thu, Mar 25, 2004, 11:41

Wow Rand, I doubted it when you posted it (didn't think I'd get there), but it does indeed look to be a dogfight for sixth the rest of the way. Looking forward to it - good luck!

Brand's underperformance has been bitter-sweet - I think I have him on about 3 other teams...

162

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 12:09

Here are my thoughts about next year's league.

I'll probably stick with 12 teams again. For Hoops, I think that works well.

The top 6 RIHC teams will automatically be invited for next year. However, since it looks like I'll finish around 8th (hopefully no worse, but that is not yet certain, I'll invite everyone who beats me. Based on the current standings, that would be 7 teams plus me. (Thankfully, I'm exempt from being dumped! It's nice to make the rules.)

I believe there are 2 qualifying leagues, and I'll take the winner from each of those 2. That brings the total to 10 teams.

For the remaining two spots, I plan to survey the continuing managers for their thoughts. The choices are some combination of:
1. Invite back one or two of the lower finishing managers. This would be justified if you feel that one or two of those teams were inordinately impacted by unforseen injury problems.

2. Invite two others from the qualifying leagues. This might be the 2nd place finishers of each league, for example.

3. Invite someone else. I can't think of who that might be, but perhaps one of you has a logical suggestion.

I won't start surveying anyone until after the season is over and we know exactly who the automatic qualifiers are. At that point, I'll probbaly ask for your recommendations in private, so that you can be frank, rather than polite. I only raise this possibility now so that you can begin to think about the alternatives.

Sound like a plan? I'd like to take care of this in late April or early May.

163

ukula
ID: 1631119
Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:11

The collapse continues......

About a month ago I was in a virtual tie with Sanfordors based on per game averages. I was looking forward to battling it out over the final month - that is until my team was RAVAGED by injuries. Almost every starter I have has lost significant time due to injuries, Kenyon Martin, Baron Davis, Quentin Richardson, Corey Maggette, Alan Houston, Brad Miller, Jeff McInnis, and now Pau Gasol is hurting. Yikes! My team has dropped from 2nd to 7th in just about two weeks! Oh well, time to sign some garbage players to try to fill out the season.

164

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:41

garbage players is certainly an apt term, too...

165

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 14:34

We're down to the last three days. While Dave R has had the top spot locked up for some time, there are still some tight battles going down to the wire. In particular, Coldwater Coyotes has made a remarkable run at me in the past few weeks, and we're now in a virtual dead heat that could easily go either way.

As I reiterated in [162], the top 6 teams will get invited back for next year. And if Coldwater Coyotes can finish ahead of me, I'll give him a special "Commissioner's invitation" for his strong performance down the stretch.

I must say, though, that I'm put off by ukula's lack of attention during the late game. He'll probably manage to remain ahead of me, but just barely. By outward appearances, his team has been effectively unmanaged, with IL players still in active slots, and active players on his bench. This not only hurts his relative performance, obviously, but is also disrespectful to other teams in the league whose relative standings may have been impacted, for better or worse, by his lack of attention. I realize that a great deal of his decline in the standings is a result of a rash of injuries. But even so, I'm disappointed with the non-effort down the stretch. And a top 6 finish (or better) seems like it could still have been attained with some effort in. He's likely to end up 75 games short of the max! Meanwhile, it looks like ten of the teams will come very close to maxing out their game exposures.

I know I said above that I would re-invite anyone who finished ahead of me. But if ukula remains ahead of me in 7th place, I think I'll survey the returning league managers to see if they are comfortable with that stance. I know that at this point, I'm certainly having second thoughts.

166

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 17:14

I think it's rather dubious if we will be able to catch Doug now. It can be done, but it's not in our own hands entirely. 4.5 points is a big gap at this stage, but at a stretch, i can see where they might come from.

Rand I'm getting a little worried you might catch us, but it looks like your points are about maxed out. Kudos to you anyway. Hope Melo helped a little bit :)

HoopsKlyce It will be interesting to see the final results of the Manu v Wade comparison. As you suggested, it looks about even right now, but i'll be the first to admit that i didn't really expect Wade to put up 16-5-4.

167

ukula
ID: 20831621
Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 23:54

Guru and the other owners - I apologize for any perceived lack of effort on my part in the past month or so. I've had a few family health issues lately that have taken precedent over anything else. Going forward, I don't foresee myself having the time to put into a competitive league such as this. Given that, I will respectfully decline any invitation for next year. Guru - Thank you for the invite for this past season.

ukula

168

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 09:11

ukula - thanks for the explanation. Sorry to hear about your family issues.

169

coldwater coyotes
ID: 32483
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 00:53

Should be interesting tomorrow....can I finish in 7th place? Which players will take a day off?

170

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 13:31

Question - If i have 2 games left to allocate to my G slots tonight, and fill all 4 G slots, how do i determine which ones Yahoo will count? It does not seem to stop me filling all 4 slots. Does that mean if i fill them all, all the stats will be counted? Sorry if it's obvious - i've never been in this situation before.

171

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 14:19

I was wondering the same thing earlier Swish City.

Just found this from the rules:

"If your league uses more than one of any position, the allowable total for those positions will be the sum of each individual spot. So, if you allow a maximum of 82 games per position and have three center spots on your roster, you will have a total of 246 combined center games. But, if you have used 245 of them and still have three centers active, you will receive stats for all three players."

So, start 'em all!

On another note, I just picked up a sort of team mascot. I suggest anyone in contention to move up a spot or two do the same.

172

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 14:31

Definitely start them all. Just like baseball pitcher innings. If you have 1 inning left, you get credit for all innings that night.

173

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 21:52

Congrats to Dave R! Well played season.

Thanks to all in this league for a fun season. And, especially Guru for organizing and the invitation to play.

Sorry I wasn't more competitive, but obviously I tried my darndest all year long down to the 'bitter' end. I never quit.

174

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 22:22

Interesting... the rules in post 171 suprise me. I managed the roster the last few days assuming this was NOT the case... that they'd only give you one... maybe whichever game completed first, etc. Oh well, no biggy... and I noticed this ruling just in time to start Drobjnak tonight. Woo-hoo!!!

Congrats to Dave... I had some overacheivers and underperformers, but really thought I had a chance at #1 going into the season and even mid-way through. Dave's team was just too solid all year long though... so kudos to him. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with #2 (would take a lot for #3 to catch me in one night)... so I guess I can't complain TOO much. =-)

175

hoopsklyce
Leader
ID: 59923214
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 07:32

congrat to the winner Sanforders
This is a 'competitive' league however there was never really a serious challenge to the #1 spot for most of the season.

Guru - I vote for Coldwater coming back

176

Edgar
Leader
ID: 458944
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 07:57

BJ really nice and quick pickup of Boumtje Boumtje. That shows the quality of our league, they even pickup your favorite mascot ahead of you!

Dave R you have played a great season. Congrats! Sure did not know Joe Johnson would be this good.

Most of all I would like to thank my buddy Swish City who did a great job on managing our team down the stretch, made some great key decsions and kept us in the race for 2nd.

Just hope he does not feel too bad with Celtic eliminated against Villareal. Thanks Swish it has been fun playing.

177

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 09:55

Congrats to Dave R for a wire-to-wire butt whipping. The key to his season? Getting the 3rd pick, and having to settle for Garnett instead of Duncan or Dirk. ;-}

The top six ended up significantly better than the bottom six, and I am happy to invite them all back for next year. Please let me know ASAP if any of you top 6 finishers do not want to return.

Kudos to Coldwater Coyotes for an incredible push down the stretch. If he had gotten 4 more assists, he'd have been in 7th! I'm happy to issue him an invitation to return as well.

There are two qualifying leagues, and I'd like to hear ASAP who won those, and who else in those leagues finished strong. In all likelihood, we will keep this league at 12 managers for next year, so we will have four slots to fill.

Once we get the results from the qualifying leagues, I'll survey the returning managers for their recommendations on filling the open spots. The two qualifying league winners will most likely take two of the spots. The other two are up for grabs - and could include others from the bottom of this league, or others from the qualifying leagues, or anyone else I haven't thought of. That "survey" will take place via email - so that we don't need to hash out any sensitive issues in public.

178

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 12:58

I got an email from Mike D, who won one of the qualifying leagues. Here are the top 3 finishers in that league:

Mike D - 82 points
Beastiemiked - 69.5
Tosh - 65

179

Swish City
Leader
ID: 931275
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 16:28

More congrats to Dave R. The result was never really in doubt, as the rest of us spent the year chasing shadows and eating KG's dust :)

Without turning this into a back slapping contest, i also have to thank my partner in crime Edgar - not least for hauling me back in line all year for trying to pick up Grant Hill. It's been a hoot, buddy. We'll get 'em next year!

I also think Doug deserves a lot of plaudits. We made a real run at him in the last 1/4 of the season, but he never panicked and held on with a bit to spare in the end.

Finally, thanks to the Guru for making this happen. A great league that i'm sure we all hope we can be part of in the future.

180

KnicksFan
Donor
ID: 30815418
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 16:31

re 178: I was a close 4th place, 63.5 points

181

Fat Moses
ID: 710272515
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 18:32

hey,

i'm just wondering, because i'm pretty new to this site, if this league was a yahoo league?? i'm thinking yes by the page that was copied and pasted onto this one. and also, is there anyway i could get in on this mad action?? i just played in a league with random people here (didn't know a one of them) and found it lots of fun because of how intense everyone is on this site. so if maybe someone could give me some info.....
(and was this just a "normal" yahoo league?)

182

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 20:08

I'd just like to toss this nameout for nomination next year: APerfect10.

AP10 won the 2nd annual Gurupie20 League on yahoo. Although it wasn't an official qualifier league and the rules were slightly different, AP10 has to beat a list of 20 Gurupies that read like a whos who list of these boards. It is a VERY tough league to win.

183

Slackjawed Yokel
Leader
ID: 52347519
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 22:43

Guru - Here's the final standings for the other qualifying league:

1 slackjawed yokel 89
2 Peter N. 68
3 Macabee Tel-Aviv 67.5
4 Donkey Hunters 63
5 Da Bombers 62
6 Dilligad 61
7 Slowhand 49
8 Late Night Lurkers 47.5
9 deepsnapper 42.5
10 Bestirring Studs 39.5
11 Farns Stars 22
12 Rubalamp 13

The stars were definitely aligned for my squad with KG, Peja, VC, Bibby, Theo, etc.

184

blackjackis21
Leader
ID: 34837521
Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 23:53

Congrats indeed to Dave R. Incredible season from the draft and throughout. As fun as it is to give you grief (I'll save that for baseball for now), I must tip my hat.

Nice job!

185

lionprideguy
Sustainer
ID: 906204
Fri, Apr 16, 2004, 02:50

My congrats to Dave R and all the other owners in the league as well! Special thanks to Guru for setting it up and the invitation - although I just couldn't seem to stop the slide in the second half of the season, I had a great time trying and hold great respect for all the other managers for their efforts in the league.

I know I certainly learned a lot in my first Yahoo season, the format was enjoyable and made the NBA season a lot more fun. No excuses here - all managers this year had to deal with injuries, disappointments, and busts, and kudos to those on top who handled their surprises smoothly and with skill.

Thanks also to all the managers who I was engaged in trade discussions with from October to March. Everybody was always really friendly and even when things didn't work out it was fun. Doug, I continued to find it hilarious that Artest and Carter seemed to mirror each other game-for-game the last month of the season, things couldn't have been more even!

Hopefully I'll get a chance to apply some of these lessons in a qualifying league next season and earn my way back up to the big leagues. Sorry I missed the RIHC retrospective thread from last month somehow, but I'll be sure to head over there and post my input right away.

Thanks again to everybody and good luck next year!

186

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Fri, Apr 16, 2004, 19:56

LPG - I agree that Artest/Carter trade was amusing by how much of a "non-event" it turned out to be... especially given that we went back and forth about it for like two weeks IIRC. Still, I remember the negotiations being a lot of fun, and it was a pleasure to play in this league with you. I hope to see you back again the year after next!

Swish/Edgar - Sorry if we had a little misunderstanding over our valuations of players and perceived team goals in the mid-season, but I think it all worked out well (except that neither of us made up ground on Dave) and I enjoyed the challenge of trying to stay just barely ahead of you as the season headed into the stretch. It was close!

rfs - Always good to be in a league with you and sad to see you go... it was a tough year but hopefully we'll see you back again soon!

187

Dave R
Dude
ID: 3010361110
Mon, Apr 19, 2004, 20:50

Hi all, sorry for not posting earlier. Spent the past week visiting my son who was playing in his last college golf tournament.

Thanks for the congrats by everyone. It certainly was a magical season from start to finish. It couldn't have started any better by having KG "slip" to me at the 3rd pick. Somer lucky later round choices (Dampier and JJ to name a couple) certainly helped.

One of the biggest keys was having most of my main guys stay injury free. I know most of you were hard hit by injuries. I beleive KG was the only 1st round pick not to have any injury problems and many of them lost significant time.

Special thanks to Guru for setting this up and running it flawlessly, with all of the usual enhancements he offered.

I look forward to next year.

Dave

Forum: hoopPage 9710Subject: RIHC - Regular Season Discussion

Forum: hoop
Page 9710
Subject: RIHC - Regular Season Discussion