| Posted by: Seattle Zen
- Donor [55343019] Fri, Aug 22, 2003, 19:45
Regulars to this board know that I am counsel and board member of Initiative 75 which would make the arrest of adults with marijuana in their possesion the lowest enforcement priority of the Seattle Police Dept.
Things are heating up. The initiative is on the September 16th primary ballot and is now starting to get some press attention. Here are two columns recently on i-75 in our local paper.
Winking at pot use is risky business
and Ms. Paynter's column the next day
E-mail attack: Readers read a lot into pot column
For those of you in the Seattle area, you might want to attend our Rick Steves fundraiser on Tuesday.

Marijuana policy reform is a mainstream issue out here in the Emerald City. The League of Woman Voters not only endorsed the initiative, but they have written a six page argument in favor of it that is an outstanding read: An Analysis of I-75, Sensible Marijuana Law Enforcement
The King County Bar Association and every Democratic Congressional committee has endorsed us.
I'll write a longer piece describing my experiences from being so deeply involved in this campaign when it is done. I'll simply say that in this day and age, where candidates and campaigns' merit is measured in how successfully they raise money, I can gladly state that we have raised over $120,000. It boggles my mind.
Here are a couple of stories about last weekend's Hempfest
Pro-pot initiative gets political push at high-flying Hempfest
Why do they ALWAYS include pictures of some chick in leaf sunglasses? Couldn't they at least take a picture of a total BABE to increase attendance next year?
Political aroma detected at Hempfest: I-75 supporters find backing
These pot pun headlines are getting tiring. James K. Polk, I'm looking in your direction! :) |
| 1 | James K Polk
ID: 51010719 Sun, Aug 24, 2003, 12:35
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LOL, yep, every headline writer thinks they're a comedian. I'm sure I wrote a bad pun or two in my time on the desk :)
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| 2 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Mon, Sep 01, 2003, 12:53
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More press. Bad headline, but overall the story is pretty fair.
Hazy future for 'lowest priority' marijuana initiative
Local law-enforcement officials call the initiative on the Sept. 16 primary ballot vague, potentially confusing and unlikely to change what they do on the street. Arresting people for possessing marijuana for personal use, says Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske, is not a priority now.
Proponents of Initiative 75 say if nothing would change, police and prosecutors have nothing to worry about. And they argue voters should be able to advise law-enforcement officials on which crimes they see as important.
Local opposition is non-existant other than a few public officials who will speak against it when asked. When you have national opposition like henchmen from the ONDCP showing up and making these arguments, I'm convinced that we actually pick up votes.
A deputy in his Office of National Drug Control Policy, Dr. Andrea Barthwell, spoke against I-75 during a visit a week ago.
She called I-75 an example of efforts around the country to "undermine the culture of disapproval" at a time when society ought to be sharpening its opposition to drug use. Marijuana use, in particular, has become a focus of White House efforts.
We do not have a "culture of disapproval" regarding adult pot use in Seattle. Any attempt to create one by the Federal Government will not work and cause a backlash.
Here is a thread from the FreeRepublic.com conservative news forum regarding I-75.
Everyone has to be a joker when the topic is cannabis, mon.
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| 3 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Fri, Sep 05, 2003, 00:19
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I loved this.
Vote yes on I-75
No surprise that we got a huge thumbs up from the Dan Savage-led Stranger.
I don't know who this a$$hole is, but he sure isn't representative of Seattle voters.
Initiative 75, would require police and the city attorney to do what they already do: Namely, make offenses for adult personal marijuana use the city's lowest law enforcement priority. Its slick, direct-mail campaign falsely represents it as relief for multiple-sclerosis patients or a blow against President Bush.
The initiative has the backing of the League of Women Voters; American Civil Liberties Union; city council members Nick Licata, Judy Nicastro and Heidi Wills; King County Council member Larry Gossett; state Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, and several Democratic district organizations. But its real backers are a handful of people involved nationally in trying to legalize drugs generally and marijuana specifically.
Yes we received a lot of money from national organizations, but we have over 300 donors and only 4 are from out of state - yes, they are the biggest dollarwise. All of the work, ideas, design, everything is local, and so will be all the Yes votes.
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| 4 | Nerveclinic
ID: 16538111 Fri, Sep 05, 2003, 01:39
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I'll be poking the chads for you Zen and dragging my slack A$$ friends to the poll.
How many missed chads will there be if everyone voting yes is baked?
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| 5 | Micheal
ID: 5483053 Sun, Sep 07, 2003, 10:12
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BUTTed for Zen.
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| 6 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Mon, Sep 08, 2003, 11:49
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Letters to the Editor
Nixon's culture war continues with more marijuana myths I'm surprised Ted Van Dyk didn't write that Initiative 75 could also increase murder rates in Seattle because he's regurgitated just about every other disproved drug war myth.
Since Van Dyk has been active in politics since the '60s, he surely remembers that an embattled President Nixon created our current war on drugs not as a public health issue, but as an easy way to criminalize his detractors: liberals, minorities and the peace movement.
Van Dyk's tired, anachronistic slander of marijuana proponents only proves this culture war is still being waged. Look at our bursting prison population for evidence.
That's ultimately what I-75 is about -- codifying an end to this madness.
I'm voting yes on I-75 because I'm not gullible enough to believe Van Dyk.
Eli Harrison Seattle
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| 7 | Baldwin
ID: 111112015 Mon, Sep 08, 2003, 17:48
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SZ
While I support decriminalization as the lesser of two evils I think your last post was a wee bit disingenuous. You'd support MJ use at any health cost. If the cigarette makers spiked their cigarettes with the smallest traces of MJ you'd be for lifting all resrictions and you know it.
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| 8 | Baldwin
ID: 111112015 Tue, Sep 09, 2003, 12:28
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I don't know if I missed this story posted my someone else but it seems some research on ecstesy that caused a stir in Sept 02 was faulty.
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| 9 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Tue, Sep 09, 2003, 15:31
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Baldy -
I posted that on another thread. I'd like to keep this thread on message.
Letter to the Editor from Kathleen Taylor, Executive director, American Civil Liberties Union of Washington.
Van Dyk dismisses serious try to reform drug policy. Ted Van Dyk's Thursday column "I-77 and I-75: We're not that gullible" takes a regrettably dismissive attitude toward a serious attempt to reform Seattle's policy toward drugs. Contrary to his assertions, the campaign for Initiative 75 is a local endeavor led by a local organization, Sensible Seattle. The initiative has been drafted, circulated and promoted by Seattleites. More than 90 percent of the campaign's 300-plus donors are from Seattle.
The column echoes arguments we can expect to hear from the Bush administration and from John Ashcroft's Justice Department, which have consistently sought to torpedo community efforts to remedy the harmful effects of the War on Drugs. We're bracing for a campaign of disinformation as the Sept. 16 election approaches.
One thing Van Dyk got right is that Seattleites are not that gullible. Not gullible enough to buy into tired rhetoric that seeks to forestall needed reform. Initiative 75 provides a way to protect still-vulnerable medical marijuana patients and preserve scarce public resources, freeing our already overworked police and prosecutors to concentrate on protecting us from serious and violent crime.
The ACLU backs I-75 as part of our long years of work to curb the harms to individuals caused by the misguided policies of the drug war.
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| 10 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Wed, Sep 10, 2003, 10:26
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The Marijuana Primer: Should we legalize it?
I have to say that I love the initiative process. Five young people with no political experience can force a city to discuss issues it would rather ignor. All our hard work is paying off in the end. Let's get this passed!
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| 11 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 589301110 Wed, Sep 10, 2003, 10:43
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Yeah. My favorite was:
"I'm against (I-75) because you're asking everyone else to tolerate the stink, stink, stink of marijuana in the local community. In other words, the rest of us who don't want to have marijuana have to tolerate the smell". -John
How incredibly typical of Seattle! On the surface it's absurd and funny. But looking deeper, it shows he doesn't care about the rediculous scare tactics regarding crime that would be the issue in most of the rest of the country, he's thinking only about the balance of rights between smokers and non-smokers.
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| 12 | Toral Sustainer
ID: 2111201313 Wed, Sep 10, 2003, 10:51
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I have to say that I love the initiative process. Five young people with no political experience can force a city to discuss issues it would rather ignor. All our hard work is paying off in the end. Let's get this passed!
Yeah, democracy can be great, can't it. All we need to do is to convince the courts to realize the same thing and keep their hands off it.
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| 13 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Thu, Sep 11, 2003, 13:51
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The Drug Czar was in town yesterday and surprise, surprise, he spoke out against I-75.
My name is John Walters and I am addicted to Federal Funding. Get between me and my billion dollar budget and I'll carve you up, BITCH!
Drug Czar really wishes that everyone but a select few Americans spend the rest of their life in prison.
Now here is a voice of reason!
Letter to the Editor
POT FICTION EDITOR: I got baked with [my opponent] Kollin Min just the other day before a candidates' forum ["City Council Candidates Say the Darnedest Things!," Sept 4]. He took me out back and pulled a spliff out of his sock. We smoked it, and discussed the merits of Initiative 75: Christal Wood: Getting a lot of questions about I-75?
Kollin Min: Yeah--I just say no. [Laughs hysterically.]
CW: Kollin, you've got to be on drugs to think the War on Drugs is working. Everybody knows it--unless you're a prison owner.
KM: Psss-ss-sss [trying to laugh, but keep his toke in]--here.
CW: It doesn't make sense. There is no evidence that pot is especially harmful to anyone's health--in fact, it has health benefits and leaves your motor skills unimpaired. How can a nation that repealed alcohol prohibition not legalize and regulate weed? There are over-the-counter cold medicines more hallucinogenic, and more lethal. How come doctors can prescribe morphine, Valium, Demerol, and OxyContin--but not THC?
KM: You're high and you're taking it all too seriously.
CW: You roll pregnant joints.
KM: So what do you think of I-75?
CW: I'll probably vote for it, but it doesn't go far enough. We're being cowardly. "Lowest priority"? Please. How fairly are cops on the street really going to interpret that? I've been advocating for refusal to enforce federal MJ law since 2001, based on local sovereignty. Constitutionally, the main enforcement right Congress has to regulate any trade is when it crosses state lines. We could totally set precedent for the rest of the nation in taking a stronger stance on what, and in what quantities, we allow to be grown and traded--taxed, even--within city limits.
KM: And that's why you'll be an "also-ran."
CW: Over a million people, Kollin--a million!--are in our federal prison system for nonviolent drug crimes. The absurdity, the cost, the waste of human potential is mind-blowing. Dude, we should just have a big friggin' smoke-out--right in front of the Federal Building!
KM: No more for you [taking a long drag before stubbing the roach out with his shoe]. You're stoned.
CW: And you're a stoned hypocrite. Over 50 percent of those nonviolent prisoners are people of color. Doesn't it bother you just a little bit, Kollin?
KM: Are you kidding? I'm a lawyer, Christal, and an Asian. We represent the smallest ethnic subset of the prison population next to Native Americans. Besides, no one's gonna take you seriously when you say that kind of stuff as a candidate. I'm going for the mainstream vote.
CW: Oh, right. Your position's up; you better go in there and wipe that silly smile off your face. I don't mean to be off-color, but maybe you shouldn't have gotten high before giving your address--your eyes look kind of squinty now.
KM: Har, har, har. Shut up before I set fire to those tired braids. I hope they have food at this thing....
Christal Wood Candidate for City Council
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| 16 | James K Polk
ID: 51010719 Sun, Sep 14, 2003, 13:39
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LOL: "You can be legally married in Texas by publicly introducing a person as your spouse three times." Nice to know. :)
Zen, you know I don't at all oppose what you're doing, but I'm curious how you respond to the columnist's point:
Seattle's marijuana initiative is tough to figure. Initiative 75, on the ballot this Tuesday, would officially make adult pot possession the city's lowest law enforcement priority. President Bush's drug czar John Walters hates it, which makes it very attractive. Walters was in Seattle this week criticizing the Canadian court system for being soft on drug users. Yes, let's hope we don't become overrun with crime, like Canada. Walters blasted I-75, claiming, "It's designed to send a message that marijuana is a trivial matter." No, the fact that we all know healthy, productive pot smokers sends that message.
OK, so the drug war is lame. Now, in true Seattle fashion, here comes a lame response to it, which our lame City Council was too lame to deal with, so they turned it into a lame initiative. The problem with I-75 is that private, adult pot smoking is already a low police priority. And if it's written into law that pot arrests are our lowest priority, doesn't that mean we have to increase the priority given to drivers doing a mile over the speed limit? The fact is, there are even less important crimes than illegal drug use.
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| 17 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Sun, Sep 14, 2003, 13:51
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First off, speeding is a traffic infraction, not a crime. When you commit a crime, you face posssible jail time and if you cannot afford a lawyer, you are given a public defender. In WA, you must spend a MINIMUM of one day in jail and pay $250 for any marijuana offense.
Therefore, I have to disagree, there are no crimes that are less important than marijuana possession.
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| 18 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 04:54
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WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!WE WON!
58% Yes 42% No
We Won.
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| 19 | Perm Dude Leader
ID: 30792616 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 09:44
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Nice. Now celebrate with some low-priority crime.
pd
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| 20 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 589301110 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 10:21
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Congrats, Zen (and all of Seattle)!!! I meant to make it down to the bash, but Zs got in the way.
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| 21 | Perm Dude Leader
ID: 30792616 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 10:23
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Seattle Z's?
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| 22 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 10:31
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Leave pot smokers alone, and don't mess with our coffee!
Unofficial returns showed voters were rejecting Initiative 77, which had become known as the latte tax, by a 2-1 ratio. By a sizable margin, voters appeared to be on the verge of approving Initiative 75.
The marijuana initiative drew criticism from John Walters, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, who lambasted the idea during a recent trip to Seattle.
"If you understand substance abuse is a disease," he asked, "why would you want to foster that disease?"
But voters thought otherwise. What a great feeling!
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| 23 | Baldwin
ID: 111112015 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 18:10
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I raise my double vanilla cappaccino in your general direction SZ. 8]
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| 24 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Wed, Sep 17, 2003, 20:50
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John Walters, the White House “drug czar,” came to Seattle backed by a platoon of bodyguards—and unwittingly admitted that the feds’ 60 Years War on marijuana didn’t have the grip on the American public that it once did. Walters decried general drug use (heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine), and then he got down to the real reason for his trip: to inveigh against Seattle’s I-75.
Walters called I-75 the result of “living in the past and ignorance, a wink and a nod, ‘Let’s play dumb’” on marijuana. It’s not the first time Walters has traveled outside the D.C. Beltway and tried to bigfoot a local measure that would soften, however imperceptibly, marijuana laws. He did it last fall in Nevada, and earlier this year officials from his Office of National Drug Control Policy campaigned against a local measure in Missouri. In both cases, he won.
But the Emerald City is harder slogging for the czar than the Silver State.
This week, the measure was winning overwhelmingly before all absentee votes were counted. Surprisingly, Seattle’s media, even the usually pliant television news, largely declined to help Walters make his case to the public. Only KOMO-TV sent a cameraperson to the press conference, but it didn’t air any footage that evening. Other than that, there were only a few print and radio reporters, and their subsequent coverage was hardly the level of drum banging Walters’ visits have generated elsewhere.
But the Seattle media also missed a shift in the pot war. You had to listen hard, but it was there: Deep in his remarks about I-75, Walters made an admission you wouldn’t have heard from federal drug enforcement officials even during the Clinton administration.
“The real issue is should we legalize marijuana,” Walters said. “Let’s have a debate about that.” Excellent article. I'm tickled that Walters came to town and we still won. I'm shocked that he even mentions the word "debate" when discussing legalizing marijuana, but it is obvious that he doesn't want to fight fair.
“That is fascinating to hear from the man who on every occasion refuses to debate us,” said Bruce Mirken, spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project, who added that his group, partially funded by billionaire Peter Lewis, has offered before to square off with the czar. “He flat-out refuses. I’ll debate John Walters anytime he wants.”
I'd pay every penny I had to watch a member of this Administration go down in flames and in history as the last stalwart in the War on Marijuana.
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| 26 | Nerveclinic
ID: 16538111 Thu, Sep 18, 2003, 02:02
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I was one of the few people in Seattle who actually made it to the polls yesterday.
Congrats to Zen on a lot of hard work that at last check appears to be paying off...
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| 27 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Thu, Sep 18, 2003, 16:29
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Thanks for the votes, Nerve & bili. Without you... we would have still passed by over 14,000 :)
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| 28 | James K Polk
ID: 51010719 Thu, Sep 18, 2003, 16:34
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LOL, nice toon :)
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| 30 | Baldwin
ID: 111112015 Fri, Sep 19, 2003, 17:57
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The winning slogan -
"You'll tax my latte when you pry it from my cold (on account of the double-cups I insist on and screw the damned rainforest) dead hands!"
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| 32 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 19:17
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Oh my... I just got this e-mail and couldn't believe it. How very cool!
Hello,
NORML's founder and director Keith Stroup will be on conservative talk show host and author Laura Ingram's nationwide Westwood One radio show.
The subject matter this evening is the successful voter-led efforts in Seattle in 2003 to decriminalize marijuana, with the first step appointing a commission that will recommend implementation of the voters' will.
Stroup is appearing at 8:00 PM (eastern). Ms. Ingram's show is heard in most major radio markets.
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| 33 | Toral Sustainer
ID: 2111201313 Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 19:33
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Laura
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| 34 | Toral Sustainer
ID: 2111201313 Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 19:44
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Laura's page.
That poor hippie is in for a beating tonight.
Toral
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| 35 | Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 20:16
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Toral, A beating? What could she possibly come up with that would rationalize not changing the Draconian marijuana laws? Anyone that has consumed whiskey, tequila, vodka or gin has taken a far more dangerous drug than marijuana. At least 2 generations know that pot smokers don't brawl, they don't hold up 7-11s, they don't drive 100 MPH off cliffs. Unless she just thinks that spreading long forgotten hysteria is chic, the casual listener will dismiss her as an extremist looney. I've never heard her, but her PR suggests an Ann Coulter clone.
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| 37 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 20:24
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Mmm, it starts early :)
I have a feeling (without ever hearing her before) that Keith and Laura will be agreeing quite a lot.
Keith's no hippie, he's a sharp tack.
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| 38 | Seattle Zen Donor
ID: 55343019 Fri, Jan 16, 2004, 14:28
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In September, Seattle voters passed Initiative 75 by a solid 58 percent majority. Now, even though marijuana use is still against the law, arresting and jailing adults for marijuana use is Seattle's lowest enforcement priority. Law enforcement resources will be focused on serious crime rather than penalizing people for conduct that does not harm others. By Kathleen Taylor, Director of ACLU-WA
I'm still bitter that I argued against this initiative and lost by a huge margin. By Tom Carr, Seattle's elected prosecutor.
I listened to all three hours of Ms. Ingram's show that night, unfortunately no visit by Mr. Stroup. As much as I loath right-wing radio and call-in shows in general, I tip my hat to Laura, she is razor sharp. Too bad there is no market for polite radio. I would love to see her on The Charlie Rose Show some day. I think she is slumming right now.
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| 39 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 30792616 Fri, Jan 16, 2004, 14:48
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re #35: Actually, I did know someone who drove off a cliff when high on MJ. But it's certainly a small minority (perhaps because it's illegal, so people tend to use it furtively).
pd
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| 41 | Seattle Zen
ID: 53252259 Wed, Aug 18, 2004, 10:36
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I-75 called effective by both supporters and foes.
The number of people prosecuted for pot possession has plummeted, and despite predictions of naysayers, there is no evidence of widespread public pot consumption as a result of the measure, which voters approved last year.
The initiative appears to be working as intended, according to Holden and City Attorney Tom Carr, an outspoken opponent of I-75.
Statistics for the first six months of 2004 show that the city has prosecuted just 18 cases of marijuana possession compared with roughly 70 during the same time period last year.
Great to see that the press realizes that I-75 has made a difference. A city the size of Seattle has had only 18 arrests all year!
A friendly reminder for all Northwest Gurupies, this weekend is The Seattle Hempfest, the world's largest cannabis political rally. Hope to see you all there.
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| 42 | Baldwin
ID: 53631254 Wed, Aug 18, 2004, 14:41
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How many days does it take you to stop giggling after that?
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| 43 | biliruben
ID: 441182916 Wed, Aug 18, 2004, 14:50
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Sounds like Baldwin's tempted!
I might be able to make it for the first time in a few years: purely for sociologic value, of course.
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| 44 | Perm Dude
ID: 2343587 Wed, Aug 18, 2004, 14:54
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just 18 cases of marijuana possession
Man, that's a lot of pot. You think they would break it down into smaller bales or something...
:)
Good news, Zen.
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| 45 | Seattle Zen
ID: 179472013 Mon, Oct 24, 2005, 00:11
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They are voting on a similar initiative in Teluride, here is some press.
A man stood in a Seattle park this month in a kind of showdown with the police. Behind him was a crowd celebrating the opening of a new park with a haze of marijuana smoke. In front of him were about 10 cops, who seemed unsure of what they should do next, aside from politely asking the crowd not to smoke pot while the cops were standing there.
But, according to several accounts of the event, a man named Dominic Holden faced the police and spoke passionately about the drug laws in America. He said he respected the Seattle police for arresting serious criminals, but that he asked the police to respect the will of the voters, who had said they wanted marijuana to be the "lowest law enforcement priority."
When he was done, he lit a joint a passed it along.
"I was protesting the fact that marijuana consumption is illegal," Holden said, "and that adults who smoke marijuana are treated as criminals."
But in Seattle, anymore, they aren't.
When Holden lit up his joint, the police politely asked him to leave the park, and issued him a seven-day Park Exclusion Notice. This means he could not re-enter the park for seven days. Holden called it "the wettest noodle in all of SPD's arsenal." The group putting on this initiative even copied our name - Sensible Colorado. Good luck guys!
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| 47 | nerveclinic
ID: 19730619 Sat, Nov 26, 2005, 23:35
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Not one day goes by in San Francisco, not one day, when I walk down the street and don't smell someone smoking pot out in the open.
Right smack downtown in the business district.
Everyday.
Gotta love it.
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| 49 | Seattle Zen
ID: 91152620 Thu, Dec 08, 2005, 22:05
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 Seattle's Move to De-Prioritize Marijuana Arrests Is Working—Arrests for Marijuana Use Are Down, Pot Smoking Is Not Up, and Other Cities Are Following Our Lead. So What's Next? How About Ending the War on Drugs?
Initiative 75, if you believed those who warned against its passage in 2003, was going to confuse kids, lead to an explosion of marijuana use, and squander taxpayer money on a citizen review board to study the effects of the new law. None of this has happened, even according to Carr, the city attorney, who had warned before the law's passage that I-75 was "wrong for our children and our community."
Marijuana-related case filings by the city attorney's office have dropped sharply since I-75 took effect, from 178 filings in 2003, the year the initiative passed, to 59 filings in 2004. That's a 67 percent reduction in arrests, prosecutions, and jail sentences connected to marijuana use—and a similarly large reduction in the angst felt by local dope smokers, the lives altered by jail time for smoking some pot, and the taxpayer money spent sending stoners through the legal system. (As of this November the number of marijuana-related filings by Carr's office was set to decline again in 2005, with only 35 filings reported in the first 11 months of this year.) It's been two years now and the effect has been great. Not only are number of arrests way down, but other cities have passed similar initiatives and marijuana policy has been seen in a positive light.
"I've never understood why adults shouldn't enjoy the same right to use verboten drugs as they have to suck on a Marlboro or knock back a scotch and water," Norm Stamper, former chief of police. In a more than 100-page document produced by the King County Bar Association earlier this year, much the same argument is made, albeit with a lot more footnotes and slightly less accessible language than Stamper uses. The dense document, however, may end up being more significant than the editorial by Stamper, or even any of the "demonstration projects" in cities that make marijuana busts a low priority. It is part of a "grass tops" effort to give opinion leaders and policymakers a way of thinking about life after the war on drugs, and the fact that it comes from a deliberative body made up of well-informed lawyers makes it all the more persuasive for the many politicians and civic leaders who already silently doubt the drug war's efficacy.
The report imagines the State of Washington controlling the distribution of currently illegal drugs, with softer drugs like cannabis perhaps being taxed and sold only to citizens who meet certain requirements (old enough, a resident of Washington, not too intoxicated at time of purchase), while harder drugs like heroin and crystal meth might only be given out under medical supervision to addicts involved in treatment. It's hardly the Bacchic free-for-all that backers of the status quo imagine when they talk worriedly about decriminalization. In fact, it could end up, in practice, being far more restrictive than the current drug-control regime. The aim would be to reduce crime by drying up the illegal markets for illicit drugs; improve public health by focusing state efforts on treating, rather than imprisoning, addicts; and protect children better by cutting down on the black-market drugs available to them while also cutting down on the incentive of drug gangs to lure children into black-market drug work.
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| 50 | Pancho Villa
ID: 519522811 Thu, Dec 08, 2005, 23:02
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Anyone who's ever indulged in hard liquor knows that it is the most dangerous drug there is. As someone who survived the drug wars of the 60s and 70s, it's refreshing to finally see some sanity.
SZ and bili - have you guys made any holiday plans yet? I'll be in Seattle one week from tonight(15th) which would be the best time to get together. I'll have a rent a car, and know the area extremely well, so if you have the time email me.
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| 52 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418 Wed, Jan 02, 2008, 15:52
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Our work is done!
For those of you who have been around for years, you will remember that I was counsel and number one signature gatherer for Seattle Initiative 75 that passed back in September 2003. One of the goals of the initiative was to create a panel to monitor progress and then release a report. Well, the report is out. I haven't finished reading it, but I am a proud parent who feels like he is watching his baby graduate from college.
I am disappointed to see the number of arrests starting to creep up in 2005 and 2006, but these numbers are so low for a city of Seattle's size. I'll post more after finishing the report.
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| 53 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418 Mon, Jan 07, 2008, 18:33
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Report: Disproportionate number of blacks arrested on pot charges in Seattle
The report found no indications the policy resulted in a jump in crime rates, increased marijuana use by youth or negative implications to public health. Outgoing council president Nick Licata, a member of the panel, said the report shows the initiative was "a good thing."
"It showed that you could actually make progress in legislating progressive drug reform laws and the sky doesn't fall down," Licata said. "Some fear that this would be the first step toward legalizing marijuana or drugs and I don't think that's going to happen. But I think this certainly opens the door for that conversation."
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| 55 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 09:20
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Hope he paid his taxes!
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| 56 | Seattle Zen
ID: 591271611 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 17:10
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Some Find Hope for a Shift in Drug Policy
Washington State law prohibits the possession of marijuana except for certain medical purposes. Hempfest is not one of them. Yet each summer when the event draws thousands to the Seattle waterfront to call for decriminalizing marijuana, participants light up in clear view of police officers. And they rarely get arrested. WOO HOO! Hempfest getting some well deserved national coverage!
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| 57 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 21:57
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Let me start by posting that i think mary jane should be legal. but...
I have a Q for those that partake. How do you justify your belief/enjoyment of mj with the risk of getting caught ruining (damaging) your life? I get that you want/believe you are right, but doesn't it scare yo that one small mistake (IE rogue cop searching you) scare you? Might you lose your ability to make a living (IE lawyer) if you get a criminal record?
It's a similar argument I make about athletes that break rules... BIG loss (contract/endorsements) vs. small gain (fun/high).
I happen to love eating pizza. And, i think making pizza illegal is unfair and unjust. BUT if pizza were for some strange reason to be illegal... I wouldn't eat them cause the risk is too great vs. the feeling of a full belly.
Just asking....
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| 58 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 22:24
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I take risks just walking out the door. I could run someone down backing out of my driveway, and my life could be forever changed. I think getting behind the wheel is by far a riskier prospect than an occasional puff. Particularly in Seattle, where enforcement is minimal and sentencing isn't particularly onerous, and may get less so.
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| 59 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 22:33
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Sure, life contains risks, but I might argue that adding "unnecessary" risks is, well, risky. What if you were a public defender and made your living as an officer of the court? Even in the liberal cit of Seattle, is agd high worth your law degree? (I'm assuming that the city attorney wouldn't care for a misdemeanor... i may be wrong?).
So, I take risks walking out my door. Life is full of risks. It doesn't mean driving without a seat belt (a minor crime) is a good idea... even though i think the gov't should butt outta my life. I'm not arguing the "chance" of getting aught, bili, I'm questioning why do it when the potential consequences are so great compared to the "reward"?
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| 60 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 22:37
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Besides, in your example, you are participating ina legal activity in which you do something negligent (run over someone). In my example, puffing is illegal from the get go and carries a penalty at a very low standard (holding)
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| 61 | weykool Leader
ID: 41750315 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 22:38
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Bili and SZ toking up....at least that explains some of there posts in other political threads. RSF: I dont think it is so much the risk/cost of getting caught it is the guaranteed loss of brain cells.
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| 62 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 22:50
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Well, so much for an honest discussion.
My career is in public health, and I analyze statistics for a living.
I understand the risks of many more things people do in their daily lives than I'm sure you do. I spent a month learning just about all the risks joe-judgmental-moron vastly over or under-estimates.
Smoking dope probably rings in at the 3022nd riskiest thing I've done in my life.
Live more. Worry less. And above all, don't be so freakin' judgmental.
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| 63 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:01
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Nope, let's have an honest discussion without dismissing me, please. I have an open mind (I think).
I'm not talking about the 3022 most dangerous things you have done as far as you hurting yourself (IE riding a motorcycle or sky diving or backing up in your driveway). I'm talking about the risk of what society will do to you VS. the reward few the good feeling. I'm arguing that there is a n excessive risk of adverse consequences vs. a good time.
Let me use myself as a clear example. i make a good living. I like dope. i don't smoke dope cause if i get caught i lose a very nice lifestyle and probably my financial security because I'd get fired for a drug charge. So, I deem the risk of what society (the police and my employer) will do to me is not worth the risk of the buzz.
That's the question i am posing... is why do people (athletes, lawyers, others) take such a risk? Perhaps it's addictive in some way?) :) ?
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| 64 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:06
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I understand the risks of many more things people do in their daily lives than I'm sure you do. I spent a month learning just about all the risks joe-judgmental-moron vastly over or under-estimates.
Why would Phelps risk millions in endorsements? (since you have told me how much you understand)
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| 65 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:22
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There are all sorts of risks people take that don't make a lot of sense. Spitzer hangin' wit' da' hos. Burress packing heat when he doesn't know how to put the safety on. Clinton dropping trou.
I think a certain type of supremely confident person may just think he's too good to get caught. But when you are an obvious target, like my examples and yours are, where people have a strong motivation to rat you out and the authorities would actually care, you have to be more careful, not less.
Average pot user has so little risk because there is not motivation for anyone except the crazed anti-drug zealot to go after him. Who the heck cares if I smoke a little dope, other than the people directly in my life? Nobody. That's why my risk is so low. Even if I did get caught, the ramifications would be pretty minimal for a first offense.
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| 66 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:35
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There are all sorts of risks people take that don't make a lot of sense.
I guess that is my point, bili. I don't expect an answer, but why do people (especially the high profile ones) take this risk for a buzz. (rhetorical question. I'd extrapolate that past the "average joe". You may not have a lot to lose, but I'd guess a lot of "average joes" (Fed Ex delivery guy, factory worker subject to random testing, healthcare worker, city landscaper, ect...) have more to lose than they'd guess if they get caught by happenstance -- isn't that the only way to get caught?
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| 67 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:43
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I think you are under-estimating the effectiveness of the counter-measures. I know a number of people who are subject to random testing but smoke. There are easy ways around it.
Honesty, most companies just want that "drug-free workplace" sign for show. They don't really care what an employee does on his own time as long as he does a good job.
Then again, I know a federal agent who used to be a multi-hit a day user, and he quit cold-turkey, because he likes his job and the feds do care.
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| 68 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Mon, Feb 16, 2009, 23:54
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I'm assuming that the city attorney wouldn't care for a misdemeanor... i may be wrong?
Probably depends on where you are. I will spare you the litany of prosecutors and cops I've seen partaking of the evil weed.
Then again, the over-zealous sheriff making himself a laughing-stock down in Columbia, SC makes me think it might be a wee bit different in those parts.
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| 69 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:01
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You're right, i don't know much about the counter-measures. But, i wasn't thinking about the average joe who does some hits at home and "cleans" up in the privacy of his home.
I'm talking about the Olympic swimmer who loses millions because someone had a camera phone, the NBA player who carries buds through airport security (Damon Stoudamire), the NFL payer who fails a schedule drug screen (Travis Henry), a friend of mine who lit up in a car who later got pulled over for speeding and the cop smelled doobie in the car, the businessman who bought from an undercover, the contractor who forgot he had a roach in the ashtray during a routine traffic stop.
non of these example has someone out hot to get them, and no amount of piss counter-measures would have eliminated the risk, yet they might all suffer employment/financial/legal (even if minor) woes.... for a buzz.
I go bak to my original premise. risk V reward.
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| 70 | Seattle Zen
ID: 591271611 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:06
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Well, I know a lot of people who smoke marijuana illegally and everyone is different. When undertaking a cost/benefit analysis, one must calculate the cost. One aspect of the cost is the actual punishment: the day in jail, the fines, the repercussions from your work, the condemnation or teasing from your friends and family. I don't know anyone who would lose endorsements, but people can have their visitation/custodial rights of their children affected.
The other aspect is the chance that you will get caught. The vast majority of marijuana smokers do not get caught because they minimize their risks. The easiest way to get caught with marijuana is to have it on your person or in your car while you have a warrant for your arrest or you get arrested. There are probably close to 10 million dwellings with marijuana in them right now and the people in those dwellings are simply not going to get arrested for it. Leave it out on a table in the front window while a police officer is speaking with you at the door, well...
So, most people who regularly smoke marijuana do so discretely and wisely, avoiding the riskiest behaviors and therefore avoiding arrest. Other people are so determined to smoke that they will go to great lengths to do so. I knew someone who was subjected to random urinalysis (there is a stupid federal law that requires it of all people who work on any avionics equipment) who came to work every day wearing a belt around his waist beneath his shirt containing a clean urine sample. When his name was drawn, he planned on opening a valve on a tube and releasing the urine into the cup. When I knew him, he had not yet been tested, who knows if it ever worked. That is seriously risky behavior creating an insurmountable cost in my mind.
I don't know what percentage of attorneys would lose their jobs if they were convicted of marijuana possession, that's an interesting question. I can't imagine a prosecutor keeping his post, but many small law firms I know smoke out together. I have never heard of a bar even admonishing an attorney for a marijuana conviction.
I'm sure you love eating pizza, but your analogy just doesn't work. There are plenty of other foods that you substitute for pizza. Your analogy is similar to "I sure love white wine, but I would give it up..." but still be allowed to drink all other forms of alcohol.
I'll get you a little closer. You are only allowed to eat rice, pasta, vegetables except avocado, fruit, herbs, nuts, chicken, tofu, and flax seed oil. No sugar, nothing fun at all. Mind you, pizza and cookies etc. are easy to come by, you have plenty of connections. Something tells me that you might occasionally indulge even at the risk of jail and a criminal record when you can do so in the privacy of your home with little to no chance of apprehension.
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| 71 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:13
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Thank zen and bili fr the dialogue. I still think the risk isn't worth the reward, but i can appreciate your position... now off for some tofu!
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| 72 | Seattle Zen
ID: 591271611 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:22
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I'm talking about the Olympic swimmer who loses millions because someone had a camera phone, the NBA player who carries buds through airport security (Damon Stoudamire), the NFL payer who fails a schedule drug screen (Travis Henry), a friend of mine who lit up in a car who later got pulled over for speeding and the cop smelled doobie in the car, the businessman who bought from an undercover, the contractor who forgot he had a roach in the ashtray during a routine traffic stop.
Each of these are different. First, Phelps didn't lose millions in endorsements. Omega watches, Visa, Speedo, all of these companies stood by him. His Kellogg's deal was set to expire in a two months and it wasn't clear that he was going to get a new one. That said, any celebrity's cost/benefit analysis is very different than the average guys. First, as we all know, you don't have to get arrested, all it takes is one a$$hole with a camera to blow a celeb's cover. Furthermore, a media firestorm is a huge cost all by itself. Any celebrity smoking in public is undertaking a huge risk.
Airport security is a TERRIBLE place to bring marijuana and reminds me of one drawback. I've advised many, many people to ALWAYS decline to give permission to search anything when asked by police because you may have left something somewhere and just forgotten about it. I surprised the hell out of myself when I discovered a pipe with bud inside of it in my shaving bag in a pocket I never opened. I figured that I had taken it on an airplane at least twice, pre-9/11/01 mind you.
Travis Henry has nine children out of wedlock with nine different women. In short, he's a fuçking idiot.
Don't smoke in a car and drive away with marijuana still left. Horribly risky behavior. Roaches are to be disposed of OUTSIDE the car! Don't buy from people you don't know. These are simply lessons taught in kindergarten in Seattle.
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| 73 | Seattle Zen
ID: 591271611 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:24
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Good to hear you are going to be chiming in more, RFS. I agree, some good dialogue.
No cheese on that tofu!
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