|
| Posted by: Wilmer McLean
- [075249] Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 04:33
Oil Prices: The Fundamental and Temporary Reasons
Copies and pastes fromt he link above:
----------------------------------------------- Oil Prices: The Fundamental and Temporary Reasons By: Bahman Aghai Diba, PhD Int. Law
The oil prices have increased almost 60% percent since the middle of the 2003. A part of this increase was foreseeable since a while ago. The OPEC decided on its session in 15th of September 2004 to increase its production ceiling by one million barrels a day. This was an effort aimed at reduction of the oil prices and getting it closer to what is called “a durable, and balanced situation” for the consumers and the producers of the crude oil.
Due to the quick developments of the oil prices, the OPEC has decided to convene an extraordinary session two month later in Egypt and the regular session of the OPEC will be convened in the March 2005, almost concurrent with the Nowruz celebrations of the Iranians in Mahmoud-abad, a city in the north of Iran, and both sessions will be concentrated on the oil price issuers.
Of course, at moment the decisions of the OPEC are only one of the factors affecting the oil prices. In fact, the OPEC members do not observe the quotas and they already produce, as much as they can. Therefore the decision of the OPEC is meaningless to a great extent.
There are several other basic and temporary issues that have affected the oil prices. The elements that have the basic role in the oil prices are:
1- The increase in the pattern of oil demand in the USA following a comparative economic recovery in some industries has affected the oil prices. The more extensive economic recovery in the USA, and its impact on the economy of many other countries of the world, will add to the demand for oil and if the supply side does not provide additional sources, in a considerable way, the prices will stay high or go even a little higher.
2- Increase of the economic growth and industrialization in many countries of the world has a direct impact on the demand for oil. The new industries all over the world call for more energy.
3- The Considerable economic growth of several Asian countries, especially India and China, are a major part of the price hike story. These two countries are home to 2.5 billion parsons. Their industries are thirsty for energy. In recent years, the Chinese have converted many of their coal based industries into oil based ones and this has added to the increase in the demand for oil in China. Only in the last one year 36% is added to the Chinese oil imports and the China is now the second biggest oil importer in the world. The rapid expansion of the Chinese market is so considerable that even the American refineries prefer to sell their products in China, which has led partly to the increase of the gasoline and gas prices in the USA. Outsourcing, or the policy of sending the economic operations out of the original country, especially in the case of the USA, has helped the economic growth of the India and China. The new members are getting added to the receiving side of the outsourcing, and especially Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos are in the line.
4- The situation of Iraq in general has special importance. The Situation of Iraq is in fact source of many concerns for the oil market. Some of these concerns are:
(A) The flow of the Iraqi oil to the market,
(B) The outcome of a unilateral policy of the USA in the region,
(C) The future of democracy or chaos in Iraq,
(D) The implications of European and Russians ouster from the Iraqi economy,
(E) The extent of success of the US military operations due to the events after the attack,
(F) The future of the stay of a major western force in an Islamic country,
(G) The effects of the Iraqi operations on the terrorism, and
(H) The effects of the possible disintegration of Iraq, especially in the Kurdish area
5- Terrorism: terrorism affects the oil prices in two ways:
(A) Damaging the oil facilities and transportation routes, and
(B) Creation of instability in the concerned countries.
The first one is reflected in attacks of the Iraqi insurgents against the oil industry, and second one is reflected in the terrorist activities of the Chechen fighters against the Russian Federation.
It is noteworthy that the land of Chechens is an important route for transportation of the Caspian oil from the land locked countries of the region and Russia. The possible terrorism in the Baku-Jeyhan Pipeline (CPC) that is due to start its operation in 2005 is already subject of activities in the region including the preparations under the supervision of NATO, and with participation Turkey and Azerbaijan Republic. Terrorism in Saudi Arabia can be an important element on the oil prices, especially taking into consideration that the Saudi exports will reach its maximum level in near future. A major change in the Saudi oil flow will have extensive results on the oil prices.
6- The Middle East, the home to great sources of crude oil is in danger of turmoil from many sides including the Arab-Israeli conflict. Many countries may get disintegrated in the future due to the internal tribal and racial differences and reduction of the central controls due to the advancement of the technology and political complications. Any turmoil in the areas will directly affect the oil prices. Geopolitical uncertainties are sources of concern and a ready-made excuse for the rising oil prices. The US plans in the Middle East have made the area prone to many developments.
In addition to the basic elements, there are some temporary or periodical elements that affect the oil market in varying degrees. Some of the important ones are:
1- The crisis of Venezuela, which is basically a conflict between the government and oil companies.
2- Russian Federation’s developments especially the arrest of Mikhail Khodorkosky, The CEO of Yukos Oil Company and one of the richest men in the world. There are concerns about the supply disruptions from the Russian Federation due to the problems of the Russian oil companies.
3- Nigerian political crisis, civil unrest, and border disputes that all related to oil.
4- The nuclear case of Iran (possibility of the Israel or US attack to Iran) is an element has should be watched. If for any reason the Iranian oil is cut from the oil market, including due to an American attack that disrupts the flow of the Iranian oil or an action by the Iranian government like setting fire to the oil fields (like Saddam’s action in Kuwait) or blocking the Hormuz strait by sinking several tankers, the oil prices will shoot up to over 100 dollars per barrel. It should be noted that in case the oil prices reach over 70 dollars per barrel the global economy would be facing a general recession.
5- Any incident that makes the sensitive oil market volatile like the Hurricane Ivan that increased the process 3 to 4 percent, the US terror alerts, the changing of weather and getting closer to cold weather and rising demands.
When the oil prices are high, two major elements start to affect the process:
1- The inclination to exploit resources that were uneconomical with lower prices due to the cost of exploitation and transportations the markets, especially in the deeper seabed and more distant or deeper parts of the off-shore areas.
2- The more serious urge to find the alterative sources of energy and use of the already discovered ones such as wind, waves, geothermal energy, and the solar energy and of course nuclear power.
3- Other initiatives like: fuel-economy cars, energy efficient industries and better isolations to save energy.
However, the oil market will not be affected drastically by the above elements because:
1- The crude oil has potentials to be used in countless other ways.
2- The long presence of the cheap oil has hindered the search for alternative sources so seriously that it will take many years to change the trend.
Result: the oil prices are going to be around 50 dollars per barrel for a long time. In case a serious development happens like sharp cut in the supply side of the oil market due to the terrorism or military attacks or intentional acts, the prices are ready to go to the range of 80 to 100 dollars per Barrel.
About the author:: Bahman Aghai Diba, is a consultant to the World Resources Company in the Washington DC area. ----------------------------------------------
I was looking for a site for a comprehensive oil price reason list. (For one, I am sick of some news organizations giving partial reasons)
This seems to be the list (add more if if something was left out). I am certainly no eceonomist, but I do know that oil prices effect the economy greatly.
More regular posters here have more knowledge on the subject and will hopefully expand further on the following:
1) What does the present and future President have control over in the above list?
2) What does the present and future President not have control over in the above list?
3) What would you do as President?
4) (any other question(s) you want to add)
|
| | | 1 | Cosmo's Cod Piece
ID: 144192417 Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 12:47
|
Good startoff post....
"What does the present and future President have control over in the above list?"
I think Bush does have and would have more control over oil prices than Kerry because of his relationships with the Saudi Royal Family. I'm oddly surprised that Bush wouldn't do everything possible to work something out with his buddies to ensure that oil prices are down during an election year.
I'm not sure what carrot Bush can dangle over Putin's head, but perhaps Bush can explore an OPEC type organization that includes Russia and the United States to help combat OPEC.
That being said....
Saudi oil production lifted
Member Nations Of OPEC
Even though the Saudis did increase production in late September, it was clearly not enough. I do fault Bush for this because he's not being public enough about attacking the price of oil. You can directly attribute that to not wanting to offend his Saudi buddies so that oil doesn't hit $70 a barrel.
"What would you do as President?"
I would explore a counter-organization to OPEC or for OPEC to significantly enlargen its membership which I don't see it doing. I would prefer to create a counter-organization centered around the United States & Russia along with whomever else wanted to join. It would be an organization that controls a good amount of oil along with heavy government sponsored cooperative R&D for alternative fuel sources.
OPEC is not the future and it is in our economic and national security interests to gain control over the alternative fuel/energy market right now at the ground floor.
A good deal of the reason why raw material (not just oil) prices are getting higher is because of the surging growth of China. I don't think there is much to be done about that. I'm not in favor of a trade war with China or even armed conflict unless they invade Taiwan.
Any ideas as to how to address these higher prices because of China's growth?
|
|
| | | 2 | nerveclinic
ID: 34757310 Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 14:37
|
It's articles like the one above which I have been reading for some time now (particularly the rise of China and it's dramatic increase in the consumption of oil) that led me to ridicule Anne Coutier's statements about oil in the Coultier thread.
Thanks for helping back up my premise.
|
|
| | | 3 | Razor
ID: 538172719 Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 14:46
|
I'm not in favor of a trade war with China or even armed conflict
Haha. Has Bush gotten so used to the idea of war over diplomacy that it's not even the last resort now?
|
|
| | | 4 | Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 15:11
|
Any ideas as to how to address these higher prices because of China's growth?
Did you read this sentence from the initial post?
The rapid expansion of the Chinese market is so considerable that even the American refineries prefer to sell their products in China, which has led partly to the increase of the gasoline and gas prices in the USA.
Meanwhile, Chinese consumption is a veritable drop in the bucket, percentage-wise, to what the United States consumes. Of course, the current president would never show real leadership and suggest to the American people that it is imperative that we begin immediately changing our national mindset when it comes to energy consumption. He is committed to growing profits for oil companies, so that would be a conflict of interest. However, we can hardly blame China or any one else in the world for energy prices when our percentage of world consumption is so out of whack with our percentage of world population. We have only ourselves to blame for our gluttony.
|
|
| | | 5 | nerveclinic
ID: 34757310 Sat, Oct 23, 2004, 16:00
|
We have only ourselves to blame for our gluttony.
Yes and like all good things at some point gluttony has to come to an end. But it sure has been a fun ride.
Some people are in for a shock though. China is a monster and it is having a dramatic effect on my industry.
|
|
| | | 6 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 09:02
|
Why does gasoline cost $3 per gallon on average in America, when just last summer it was around $2?
I think one explanation that cannot be overlooked is flat out greed.
Exxon Mobil has made $10 billion in profits in the second quarter of 2006.
You cannot tell me with a straight face that this has nothing to do with why we're paying so much at the pumps. The funny thing is that whenever a spokesman for the oil companies gets a crack at explaining things, there's always discussion about refining processes and increasing demand in other parts of the world and yada, yada, yada ad infinitum.
You never hear them say, "We're greedy people at Exxon Mobil."
Hmm.
|
|
| | | 7 | Boxman
ID: 0614268 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 09:28
|
Refining capacity in this country is far below what it needs to be. China and India's economic growth hasn't helped matters. Add to that the commodity traders have a panic attack everytime somebody burps out loud in the Middle East.
That being said, I am glad, glad I tell you, that gas is surging past $3 per gallon and heading straight for $4. If the American people will not willingly wean themselves off of foreign oil, then they must be made to. Sorry folks, but we cannot keep relying on the most volatile region in the world for arguably our most precious resource and expect things to turn out rosey all the time. Get the American people good and PO'd and let's see what sustainable innovations occur. I personally like what some engineers have done with battery technology and the Prius. Yes the fuel is gasoline, but when measured in miles per gallon of gas, the rating is in the triple digits of miles per gallon. If that goes mainstream onto all cars, I forsee a potential excess supply of gas, given that usage will go down by at least half, and maybe we'll see $2 gas again.
I believe a new engine technology is what's needed versus any fuel that requires petroleum. Ethanol is a good start. Let's be honest, what alternative is there right now that won't shatter the supply chain?
I've read about calls for a "Moon Race" type of government program. Considering I don't trust the private sector in this aspect because the people who control the supply chain (which is where the massive reform will take place) also control which fuel is being used, perhaps we need a massive governmentally funded effort. Problem is, how do we pay for it?
Keep in mind as to what is driving this demand for change. It isn't that people are being more environmentally conscious, it's the money. So whatever alternative we decide as a nation to go forth with, it's got to be much cheaper than gas otherwise why bother in the first place as far as the average guy is concerned?
|
|
| | | 8 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 09:34
|
Well, it could be about the same price as gasoline, and damn the average guy. We'll be out of gasoline completely in a few decades anyway.
For the record I'm all for alternative fuels and ending consumption of petroleum altogether.
My point was more along the lines of you never hear about the companies simply jacking the price up because they can. You hear about instability in the Middle East and technological nonsense as reasons for increasing gas prices.
I'm ready to fuel my vehicle with moonshine or Mr. Fusion anyday now, whenever we change over to the new engine types. Yep; any day now.
|
|
| | | 9 | Boxman
ID: 0614268 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 09:56
|
In a free market system, BP/Exxon et. all, have every right to jack up the price of gasoline for whatever the consumer is willling to pay for it. I honestly think that consistent $3 gas is going to spur more innovation than any other motivator out there.
|
|
| | | 10 | Pancho Villa
ID: 366352418 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:04
|
#9 -
The question is whether there is a free market system concerning oil and gas, or whether there is collusion between roughly 4 or 5 corporations that control the market.
It's really a shame that modern conservatives have for decades abandoned the principals that Teddy Roosevelt established a hundred years ago when dealing with coroporate greed that operates against the public interest.
|
|
| | | 11 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:07
|
Box, the price of gas has gone up 100% in the last 18 months or so. That's pretty inimitable. I wonder how many consumable products have gone through spurts like that, after having been on the market for 70+ years. Probably not many.
Anyway, I'm all for capitalism and making money hand-over-fist, but I just think they ought to be honest from time to time when they spew out all of these lines about the war in Iraq and other excuses.
We're greedy.
Just say it; it's not hard.
|
|
| | | 12 | Boxman
ID: 0614268 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:15
|
Good point, Pancho, about collusion. Obviously that is a bastardization of the free market system and, if true, drag those responsible to the nearest prison. Fine by me.
Now if you believe that 4 or 5 corporations working together is collusion, how do you feel about utility companies holding that power? At least in my state, Illinois, residential customers have ComEd for electric and I believe Nicor is the only option for natural gas. I also only have one option for traditional cable TV, Comcast. Yes I can have the dish. I would love to bust those monopolies up.
MC, you are correct. There is a lot of BS being thrown our way from Big Oil. Of course they are jacking up the costs partly because they can. No argument whatsoever. The Bush Admin with their oil connections provides them the perfect cover to do just that.
However, when people get a motivation to innovate, big time improvements come. Maybe not us (we'll be too old to drive), but maybe our kids will look back on this as the time that made us get off of foreign oil.
If gas was wildly affordable, where would the motivation to get away from Middle Eastern oil barron lunatics come from?
|
|
| | | 13 | biliruben
ID: 535193010 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:21
|
Some industries are not particularly amenable to free-market systems. Health care and power are two of those, and therefore need to be regulated, and regulated heavily.
I agree that the higher the gas prices the better. Instead of giving it a profits to colluders, tax the bejesus out of it, and pay down the national debt, seed innovative technologies, and support non-automotive transit.
|
|
| | | 14 | Matt S
ID: 18635717 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 11:21
|
Too many people corelate oil prices with gas (for your car) prices, and ignore the fact that oil is used for the production of many more things. I wish I had the figure (and I'm too lazy to find it) but I remember reading that oil for transportation is only 30 something percent of total usage. So even if every American sold their SUVs and bought a Prius (on credit of course) you would still have to find a way to power your cities and produce all of these things.
Face it, the intellectuals in the US have been hushed for so long on this issue that it has become too late. The best solution you can come up with is a useless plan to turn corn into ethanol and save 5% on fuel costs (useless because it takes more than the 5% in oil to produce the ethanol.) If you invested 1 trillion 10 years ago in Wind Power, you may have been able to prevent the inevitable. Now you don't have the ability to invest 1 trillion into anything and the inevitable is just around the corner.
That is, massive inflation, forclosures on a large percentage of American homes, negative economic growth, high unempolyment, mass poverty and starvation, civil unrest and war.
|
|
| | | 15 | Peter Venckman
ID: 0614268 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:02
|
CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
|
|
| | | 16 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:15
|
Matt, I never liked frisbee anyway.
What's with the Chicken Little talk? Nobody paying attention to you?
|
|
| | | 17 | Matt S
ID: 18635717 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:23
|
Nope, and they'll do so at their peril! Muahahahahaha. ;-)
|
|
| | | 18 | boikin
ID: 400291013 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:31
|
hey MC you can allready buy the home moonshine kit to make ethanol for your car.
|
|
| | | 19 | boikin
ID: 400291013 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:36
|
It seems funny to me that in this thread on removing dependence from oil and high oil prices there is no mention of the increased use of mass transit system and the america's dependence on automobile use. It is more wasteful to use your prius with 1 person in it than your SUV with 4 people in it.
|
|
| | | 20 | biliruben
ID: 535193010 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:40
|
Well... I mentioned it.
|
|
| | | 21 | boikin
ID: 400291013 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:47
|
missed that bili, but i see everyone is for a solution that supports there way of life now getting into there car a driving by them selves. the thought of having to take a bus is unamerican. the problem we face now could have been adverted or atleast lessoned if government would have taxed gasonline at higer rates years ago like the europeans.
|
|
| | | 22 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:49
|
Yeah, but you're poorly soluble in water, so no one pays attention when you say stuff.
|
|
| | | 23 | Matt S
ID: 33644316 Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 17:04
|
Hmm, maybe this will serve as delay for the inevitable...
|
|
| | | 24 | The Treasonists
ID: 571192610 Wed, Sep 20, 2006, 19:10
|
Well, the price of oil has come down to $60, and the price of gas is getting back to $2. And the Dow-Jones is nearing it's all-time high. The Republicans sure are lucky that this is happening just one month before the elections.
I have a feeling that statement is going to end up in italics.
|
|
| | | 25 | sarge33rd
ID: 257222410 Wed, Sep 20, 2006, 19:31
|
lol
Read ana rticle yesterday, where one financical guru typoe is prediciting that gas could fall all the way to $1.30 or possible evn less. Says its possible, that crude to drop to the $20-$25 barrel range, and if it went below that, pump prices could get as low as $1.15.
|
|
| | | 26 | J-Bar
ID: 14461512 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 13:14
|
that's what happens when people stop buying those gas guzzlers. I sure hope that any reduction in gas price below $2.25 is converted to a tax for research and development of alternative fuels. I sure hope this catches on with the Democratic leadership and they start campaigning on it.
|
|
| | | 27 | boikin
ID: 59831214 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:02
|
i second that j-bar they should start a tax now that would keep gas from going under $2.00 again not only could the money be used to find alternative fuels but it would slow wasteful demand for gasonline.
|
|
| | | 28 | Perm Dude
ID: 36851218 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:09
|
Now is certainly the time. It appears that only high gas prices will start people toward buying more efficient cars.
|
|
| | | 29 | boikin
ID: 59831214 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:24
|
yeah before they decide they can go back to SUVs again.
|
|
| | | 30 | J-Bar
ID: 14461512 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:33
|
boikin- I would not necessarily be dead set against something of that nature but I was suggesting the Dems use it because I think it would be political suicide. I will be clearer in the future.
|
|
| | | 31 | Punk42AE Donor
ID: 036635522 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:43
|
The prices have nothing to do with people buying or not buying "Gas Guzzlers".
|
|
| | | 32 | The Treasonists Donor
ID: 171572711 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:47
|
There already is a tax of ~50 cents per gallon.
|
|
| | | 33 | Perm Dude
ID: 36851218 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 15:54
|
J-Bar: It is difficult to say what "political suicide" is anymore. If seven years ago you had said that a party would come to power and have $43 trillion in debt just six years into power, 3000 American servicemen deaths overseas, billions and billions of dollars spent in foreign wars, the revocation of virtually all Congressional ethics rules, the advocation of torture as a foreign intelligence tool, 14,000 detainees in secret prisons all over the world (most held without charges or access to counsel), the supression of scientific evidence about global warming and evolution, and the wiretapping of millions of domestic phone calls we'd have probably would have had a big belly laugh.
And you think raising the gas tax is "suicide?"
pd
|
|
| | | 34 | J-Bar
ID: 14461512 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 18:25
|
Then by all means, get the Democrat politicians to buy into the proposal. And if you would have said that a major U.S. city would have been attacked, and that a major U.S. city would experience the worst natural disaster in U.S. history, and that internationally the U.N. would be so corrupt as to promote the disregard of their own sanctions, and that one of the worst natural disaster (tsunami) in modern history would take place, and that brutal dictators would be praised by Democrats and the president labeled as evil in comparison, and that the U.N. would fail so badly in their mission in Darfur and other places, and that the Democratic party would be so jealous of being out of power as to extort the truth to their Kool-aid drinkers and only Bush bash as opposed to having a real platform, and that only 3000 soldiers would lose their lives in an undertaking as large as Afghanistan and Iraq, then we could have ALL voted Republican. But thank God 52% did.
|
|
| | | 35 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 374522815 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 19:18
|
Jesus that was stupid. WTF does the Tsunami and Hugo Chavez and Darfur have to do with voting Republican?
I guess we shouldn't be surprised when such nonsense comes from a dolt who cares more about Democrat political suicide than a real plane for waning Americans off of our dependance on oil.
Only a real imbicile prefers for 1 of our only two major political parties to be wrongfully perceived as inept.
Partisan moron.
|
|
| | | 36 | TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 20:08
|
I just did a lot of erasing. Not worth my time.
|
|
| | | 37 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 374522815 Thu, Sep 21, 2006, 20:44
|
Not to mention that PD's point flew way over his head.
|
|
| | | 38 | Baldwin
ID: 548592317 Sat, Sep 23, 2006, 18:59
|
BTW the newest Gulf oil find was discovered by new techniques that allow drilling several miles below the sea floor.
I am pretty sure the dead dinosaurs are few and far between at that layer. More specifically nonexistant. The peak oil 'crisis' is bull feathers tho I don't have a link for you and I may not be vindicated on that point till I am long gone from these parts.
|
|
| | | 39 | J-Bar
ID: 14461512 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 09:21
|
Bam, so easy to get the name callers going, gotta love it. LMAO
|
|
| | | 40 | sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 09:48
|
took 4 days to come up with that J-Bar? I'd have expected better given that much time for thought.
|
|
| | | 41 | J-Bar
ID: 14461512 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 10:15
|
1 min only Sarge, first time back since posting. Thank you for your confidence though.
|
|
| | | 42 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 49848118 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 11:58
|
Yes it probably shouldn't be nearly so easy to get me "going" but I'm very easily frustrated by such utter stupidity.
|
|
| | | 43 | sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 13:22
|
1 min only Sarge, first time back since posting. Thank you for your confidence though.
hmmmmm, Maybe you should give heed then, to the notion of taking the 4 days to compose your thoughts.
|
|
| | | 44 | The Treasonists Donor
ID: 171572711 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 16:07
|
Only a real imbicile prefers for 1 of our only two major political parties to be wrongfully perceived as inept.
Only a real imbecile would call somebody an "imbicile".
If you're going to continue with the name-calling, at least spell your insults correctly. A third party can read that and surmise who the real imbecile is.
|
|
| | | 45 | sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 16:12
|
That would be the one who finding themselves unable to dissect the meat of the argument, attacks instead the typos?
|
|
| | | 46 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 49848118 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 16:14
|
Yes obviously the ability to correctly spell an epithet one applies is much more telling than the actual point it happens to accompany. What an idiat I am.
|
|
| | | 47 | The Treasonists Donor
ID: 171572711 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 16:41
|
Only a real imbicile prefers for 1 of our only two major political parties to be wrongfully perceived as inept.
Fine. Let me try to understand this statement.
I prefer for the Democratic Party to be perceived as inept. If they are wrongfully perceived as inept, that is OK, too. If people think they are inept, they are less apt to vote for them. This is Great. Thus, I prefer that one of our only two major political parties to be wrongfully perceived as inept.
This makes me a real imbicile? Partisan maybe.
|
|
| | | 48 | sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 18:38
|
nope. Idiot, imbecile...take your pick.
Nobody doubts or questions..."absolute power corrupts, absolutely". Put one party in power, virtually eliminate the other party, thus eliminating any concerns of being voted out of office, and the party in power will most certainly, absolutely corrupt.
|
|
| | |
| | | 50 | The Treasonists
ID: 571192610 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 19:37
|
The Liberterian Party could replace the Democratic Party as one of the two major parties.
|
|
| | | 51 | Perm Dude
ID: 49842257 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 19:48
|
I'd agree with that as long as they agreed to take only privately-funded roads to Washington.
|
|
| | | 52 | Baldwin
ID: 55832518 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 20:03
|
Clever that, PD. It would even be wise if you could point to any other successful big government program.
|
|
| | | 53 | Perm Dude
ID: 49842257 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 20:37
|
I'll break my silence only to say:
Interstate Highway Program Head Start Internet GI Bill Clean Water Act CDC National Parks System
Of course, Republicans have blown away even their own inflated view of the worse-case scenerio of what "liberals" would do to government. Last year discretionary programs grew by 9%. Take a look at this report from the Heritage Foundation. And then shut the f*ck up about Democrats being "big government."
|
|
| | | 54 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 374522815 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 20:47
|
If they are wrongfully perceived as inept, that is OK, too.
Aside from the fact that most people who are not the slightest bit politically cognizant understand the concept that it is better for America to have as many good options for good leadership as possible, any idiot knows that the recent and current futility of the Democrat party is primary reason for the Republican party's corruption and abandonment of so many of its core principles.
Of course if you haven't figured out yet that the GOP is suffering from corruption and has abandoned many of its core principles I can't expect you to be smart enough to consider the possibility that a strong opposition will force your side to clean up its own act, much less to consider voting the other way, should they manage to put up the better option every once in a while.
You're still an imbicile.
|
|
| | | 55 | Seattle Zen
ID: 46315247 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 22:07
|
I know its a touchy subject, but
Public School system - including universities
are a great system in my mind.
National Institute of Health
and on the whole, the Judiciary, with exceptions like this horrible hold over from the bad old days.
|
|
| | | 56 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 374522815 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 22:19
|
Whatever anyone thinks of the public school system currently they know that the United States spent the better part of the 20th century as the best educated country in the world, thanks largely to the foundation provided by American public schools.
|
|
| | | 57 | The Treasonists
ID: 571192610 Mon, Sep 25, 2006, 23:21
|
any idiot knows I can't expect you to be smart enough You're still an imbicile
This is just from one post.
I don't know why anyone bothers.
|
|
| | | 58 | Boxman
ID: 427471614 Wed, Sep 27, 2006, 13:35
|
Public School system - including universities
are a great system in my mind.
If you weren't such a horse's ass to begin with, I'd love to prove you wrong on this. But please, think what you will, ignorance is bliss.
|
|
| | | 59 | Boldwin
ID: 198142716 Wed, Sep 27, 2006, 18:14
|
- PD
Interstate Highway Program: I said any other program
Head Start: Heading down the road to just handing our kids over to the government to raise from birth. They are curently trying to arrange to keep them hours later than they do now also, breakfast, dinner, they'll be offering all three meals soon. Heck just stay all evening for sports, and your so tired, why go home?
Internet: What makes it so great is that the government has kept their hands off of it uncharacteristically.
GI Bill: Not sure paying the troops qualifies as a big government program.
Clean Water Act: Could be good, could be bad. Depends on whether big government powers are abused. In theory policing the bad guys [in this case pollutants] is a basic government function.
CDC Policing the bad guys [in this case virulent microbes] is a basic government function.
National Parks System: Turning over huge percentages of USA territory to UN control is good?
Even limiting government to military and police may not even be sufficient. Expanding the definition of police powers is inherrently risky. Soon they will be billyclubbing you over the head lest you actually bite down on those fries.
|
|
| | | 60 | sarge33rd
ID: 257222410 Wed, Sep 27, 2006, 19:00
|
National Parks System: Turning over huge percentages of USA territory to UN control is good?
I dont know that the UN is in charge of Yellowstine, Yosemite or any other National Park.
|
|
| | | 61 | Boldwin
ID: 218262718 Wed, Sep 27, 2006, 20:26
|
I never can tell for sure if Sarge is oblivious or deliberately running cover for this stuff...Yellowstone Park offers a very useful case study of the UN-driven landgrab. Yellowstone is one of 20 UN World Heritage Sites dotting the U.S. landscape. To these have been added 47 UN Biosphere Reserves. Together, the Heritage Sites and Biosphere Reserves — each of which is a prime candidate to serve as a Wildlands Project core area — account for more than 50 million acres. The World Heritage Convention was ratified by the Senate in 1973; the Man and the Biosphere Program (MAB), through which the Biosphere Reserves were created, was implemented by the State Department through "memoranda of understanding" without the involvement of Congress. The designation of these sites was achieved through secretive collusion between unaccountable NGO stakeholders and eco-bureaucrats, usually without any input by the affected local citizenry.
In fact, such secrecy is mandated by the UN. Paragraph 14 of the 1994 Operational Guidelines for the World Heritage Convention dictates that governments bound by the convention "should refrain from giving undue publicity to the fact that a property has been nominated for inscription pending the final decision...." With reference to Biosphere Reserves, the UN also claims the power to circumvent public accountability altogether. UNESCO’s 1995 Seville Agreement for Biosphere Reserves dictates that in the process of identifying and designating such sites, "national or local NGOs could be appropriate substitutes" for elected officials. It was through such covert machinations that the network of Heritage Sites and Biosphere Reserves was created.
Furthermore, where Heritage Sites are concerned, UN designation recognizes a state of "shared sovereignty" over a given parcel of territory within our country. As the October 6, 1992 issue of Environment magazine explained, the designation of World Heritage Sites "constitutes a unique precedent," as it "implies what might be called a voluntary limitation of sovereignty" and a recognition that "other countries have, through the [World Heritage] convention, an obligation — and therefore a right — toward these sites."
It was on this basis that the Clinton administration invited UNESCO to intervene to declare Yellowstone a World Heritage Site in danger. Yellowstone Park superintendent Mike Finley also deferred to the supposed sovereignty of the UN over the park by maintaining that the World Heritage treaty, despite the lack of federal implementing legislation, has "the force and statutory authority of federal law."
- Source
The "Yellowstone to Yukon" project is seeking to create a transnational "bioregion" 2,000 miles long and 300 miles wide. Yet this is only a start for the UN's Wildlands Project.
Does … The Wildlands Project advocate the end of industrial civilization? Most assuredly. Everything civilized must go.... — John Davis, Editor, Wild Earth magazine
[The Wildlands Project] is a bold attempt to grope our way back to October, 1492, and find a different trail.... Local and regional reserve systems linked to others ultimately tie the North American continent into a single Biodiversity Preserve.... — Dave Foreman, Earth First! Activist, Wildlands Project co-architect
|
|
| | | 62 | sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Wed, Sep 27, 2006, 23:18
|
and of course, your source has no agenda of its own which may or may not influence the fullness of its accuracy in reporting.
From the link "About the New American::
THE NEW AMERICAN magazine is a valuable tool in confronting the liberal, mainstream media.
So from that, I would gather that their reporting, will consist of carefully selected bits of info, misrepresented quotes, and statements taken out of contect, so as to furhter their own political ideology. In short....I call bullshit.
|
|
| | | 63 | Perm Dude
ID: 45822289 Thu, Sep 28, 2006, 11:38
|
Don't even try, sarge. Anyone who slams Head Start and uses the secrecy that comes from pre-announcal award nominations to say "The UN is coming! The UN is coming!" is not rooted in reality.
I shoulda listened to myself...never again.
|
|
| | | 64 | sarge33rd
ID: 257222410 Thu, Sep 28, 2006, 12:24
|
agreed PD. (Reminds me of a conversation I once had F2F, with a poli-board member. lol)
|
|
| | | 65 | Matt S
ID: 45621302 Thu, Sep 28, 2006, 13:33
|
I cannot believe what I am reading.
Baldwin, you speak as if World Heritage sites are something unique to North America. I have visited over a dozen such sites all over the world. They are environmental reserves. They're meant to preserve the eco-system in historically significant or bio-diverse areas. The same ones we, humans, have taken liberty of destroying ourselves for our own personal gain.
Trying to find an alterior motive for this program or calling it a "land-grab" is ludicrous.
|
|
| | | 66 | boikin
ID: 59831214 Thu, Sep 28, 2006, 13:56
|
Matt right on world heritage sites are there to serve a world that is ever intent on destroying things and as much as I dislilke the UN the idea of world heritage sites is really good.
|
|
| | | 67 | Boldwin
ID: 448112822 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 00:11
|
Baldwin, you speak as if World Heritage sites are something unique to North America - MattS
I am answering Sarge's snide remark that he didn't think ownership of USA national parks like Yellowstone had been turned over to the UN.
It is an indisputable fact. Something you should expect when you see my detractors start attacking me instead of dealing with the issue.
Of course the UN power grab entails more the North America. Duh
|
|
| | | 68 | sarge33rd
ID: 257222410 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 11:17
|
boldy...there is no issue, except within your closed little mind.
|
|
| | | 69 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 49848118 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 12:52
|
It is an indisputable fact. Something you should expect when you see my detractors start attacking me instead of dealing with the issue.
LOL!
So now you know, Matt; if Boldwin has a position challenged here you should always assume that he is right!
|
|
| | | 70 | Boldwin
ID: 58402911 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 13:40
|
Actually that is a pretty good indicator. If they haven't got anything but ad hominem why should their numbers matter? They haven't got squat.
I am used to being outnumbered and right. The sheep are usually wrong.
|
|
| | | 71 | sarge33rd
ID: 257222410 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 13:42
|
said the blind man, following the inept.
|
|
| | | 72 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 158152715 Fri, Sep 29, 2006, 18:43
|
Nigeria and Venezuela to Cut Oil Production
Two of the OPEC oil cartel’s 11 members, Nigeria and Venezuela, said today that they would voluntarily cut production in response to declining crude oil prices, which have fallen 20 percent from their peak two months ago.
The move, which would take less than 200,000 barrels of oil a day off the market, follows days of mixed signals from some OPEC officials, who have voiced increasing concern about the rapid drop in prices. Nigeria’s oil minister, Edmund Daukoru, who is president of OPEC this year, recently said the price of oil was “very low.”
Nigeria and Venezuela, which have generally been price hawks within the group, said their decision to cut production grew out of an informal deal reached at OPEC’s last meeting, earlier this month, to pare output if prices fell steeply. Some OPEC representatives have grown anxious at the slide in the oil futures markets, where prices for benchmark contracts have fallen from a midsummer high of $77.03 a barrel.
But traders shrugged off the announcement of the production cuts today. On the New York Mercantile Exchange, the most widely watched contract price — light, low-sulfur crude for delivery next month — traded this afternoon at $62.30 a barrel, down 0.7 percent.
Mr. Daukoru has been in contact with other OPEC ministers to discuss prices, which on Monday briefly slipped below $60 a barrel for the first time in six months. But the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, as the cartel is formally known, denied any shift in policy.
“We are not currently concerned,” a delegate from one of OPEC’s Gulf members said. “The prices are currently manageable and fair. We’re not overly alarmed by the prices. It is not a cause for alarm. It’s the market working.”
...
|
|
| | | 73 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 191051253 Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 05:03
|
THE NEW WORLD OIL ORDER, Part 2 Russia tips the balance Asia Times Nov 23, 2006
Russia has set the agenda for the global transition to an entirely new model of international energy security designed to address intensifying concerns, especially those of the rising East.
Russia, possessing unequaled energy-based leverage, has taken the leadership among the world's producers and the rising powerhouse economies of the East to promote a vast worldwide web of alliances and ties prominently featuring rigid bilateral, private long-term supply contracts.
This model runs counter to and increasingly circumvents the established liberal US-backed global oil market denominated in US dollars. The West relies on the current order for its energy security. It cannot function without it, and therefore the order is its single point of weakness. And Russia is acting as the "point man" to locate and exploit, with the help of its partners, this Achilles' heel of the West.
...
|
|
| | | 74 | Perm Dude
ID: 211029259 Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 10:33
|
It cannot function without it...
I think this is a bit of an overstatement. While the West cannot function without energy security, the article seemingly confuses the mode of security with its existence.
|
|
| | | 75 | Boxman
ID: 91021215 Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 12:06
|
All the more reason to heavily research alternate energy. Take that card out of the Russian and Middle Eastern oil barrons deck and their hand is much worse.
|
|
| | | 76 | biliruben
ID: 535193010 Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 12:38
|
Solar powered chainsaws, baby!!
|
|
| | |
| | | 78 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 191051253 Sat, Nov 25, 2006, 19:27
|
The Two-Man Chainsaw:


|
|
| | | 79 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 369960 Sat, Oct 06, 2007, 02:50
|
Russia is far from oil's peak
Asia Times Sep 27, 2007 By F William Engdahl
The good news is that panic scenarios about the world running out of oil any time soon are wrong. The bad news is that the price of oil is going to continue to rise. "Peak Oil" is not our problem. Politics is. Big Oil wants to sustain high oil prices. US Vice President Dick Cheney and friends are all too willing to assist.
On a personal note, I've researched questions of petroleum since the first oil shocks of the 1970s. I was intrigued in 2003 with something called the Peak Oil theory. It seemed to explain the otherwise inexplicable decision by Washington to risk all in a military move on Iraq.
Peak Oil advocates, led by former BP geologist Colin Campbell and Texas banker Matt Simmons, argued that the world faced a new crisis, an end to cheap oil, or Absolute Peak Oil, perhaps by 2012, perhaps by 2007. Oil was supposedly on its last drops. They pointed to soaring gasoline and oil prices and to the declines in output of the North Sea, Alaska and other fields as proof they were right.
According to Campbell, the fact that no new North Sea-size fields had been discovered since the North Sea in the late 1960s was proof. He reportedly managed to convince the International Energy Agency and the Swedish government. That, however, does not prove him correct.
Intellectual fossils? The Peak Oil school rests its theory on conventional Western geology textbooks, most by American or British geologists, which claim oil is a "fossil fuel", a biological residue or detritus of either fossilized dinosaur remains or perhaps algae, hence a product in finite supply. Biological origin is central to Peak Oil theory, used to explain why oil is only found in certain parts of the world where it was geologically trapped millions of years ago.
That would mean that dinosaur remains became compressed and over tens of millions of years fossilized and were trapped in underground reservoirs perhaps 1,200-2,000 meters below the surface of the Earth. In rare cases, so goes the theory, huge amounts of biological matter should have been trapped in rock formations in the shallower ocean regions such as in the Gulf of Mexico or North Sea or Gulf of Guinea. Geology should be only about figuring out where these pockets in the layers of the earth, called reservoirs, lie within certain sedimentary basins.
An entirely alternative theory of oil formation has existed since the early 1950s in Russia, almost unknown to the West. It claims that the conventional US biological-origins theory is an unscientific absurdity that is unprovable. They point to the fact that Western geologists have repeatedly predicted finite oil over the past century, only then to find more, lots more.
Not only has this alternative explanation of the origins of oil and gas existed in theory, the emergence of Russia as the world's largest oil and natural-gas producer has been based on the application of the theory in practice. This has geopolitical consequences of staggering magnitude.
Necessity the mother of invention In the 1950s, the Soviet Union faced "Iron Curtain" isolation from the West. The Cold War was in high gear. Russia had little oil to fuel its economy. Finding sufficient oil indigenously was a national-security priority of the highest order.
Scientists at the Institute of the Physics of the Earth of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Geological Sciences of the Ukraine Academy of Sciences began a fundamental inquiry in the late 1940s: Where does oil come from? In 1956, Professor Vladimir Porfir'yev announced their conclusions: "Crude oil and natural petroleum gas have no intrinsic connection with biological matter originating near the surface of the Earth. They are primordial materials which have been erupted from great depths."
The Soviet geologists had turned Western orthodox geology on its head. They called their theory of oil origin the "abiotic" theory - non-biological - to distinguish it from the Western biological theory of origins.
If they were right, oil supply on Earth would be limited only by the amount of organic hydrocarbon constituents present deep in the Earth at the time of the planet's formation. Availability of oil would depend only on technology to drill ultra-deep wells and explore into the Earth's inner regions. They also realized that old fields could be revived to continue producing, so-called self-replenishing fields. They argued that oil is formed deep in the Earth, formed in conditions of very high temperature and very high pressure, like that required for diamonds to form.
"Oil is a primordial material of deep origin which is transported at high pressure via 'cold' eruptive processes into the crust of the Earth," Porfir'yev stated. His team dismissed the idea that oil is is biological residue of plant and animal fossil remains as a hoax designed to perpetuate the myth of limited supply.
Defying conventional geology The radically different Russian and Ukrainian scientific approach to the discovery of oil allowed the USSR to develop huge gas and oil discoveries in regions previously judged unsuitable, according to Western geological exploration theories, for the presence of oil. The new petroleum theory was used in the early 1990s, well after the dissolution of the USSR, to drill for oil and gas in a region believed for more than 45 years to be geologically barren - the Dnieper-Donets Basin in the region between Russia and Ukraine.
Following their abiotic or non-fossil theory of the deep origins of petroleum, the Russian and Ukrainian petroleum geophysicists and chemists began with a detailed analysis of the tectonic history and geological structure of the crystalline basement of the Dnieper-Donets Basin. After a tectonic and deep structural analysis of the area, they made geophysical and geochemical investigations.
A total of 61 wells were drilled, of which 37 were commercially productive, an extremely impressive exploration success rate of almost 60%. The size of the field discovered compared to the North Slope of Alaska. By contrast, US wildcat drilling was considered to have a 10% success rate. Nine of 10 wells are typically "dry holes".
That Russian geophysics experience in finding oil and gas was tightly wrapped in the usual Soviet veil of state security during the Cold War era, and was largely unknown to Western geophysicists, who continued to teach fossil origins and, hence, the severe physical limits of petroleum. But slowly it begin to dawn on some strategists in and around the Pentagon well after the 2003 Iraq war that the Russian geophysicists might be on to something of profound strategic importance.
If Russia had the scientific know-how and Western geology did not, Russia possessed a strategic trump card of staggering geopolitical import. It was not surprising that Washington would go about erecting a "wall of steel" - a network of military bases and anti-missile shields around Russia to cut its pipeline and port links to western Europe, China and the rest of Eurasia.
English geographer and geopolitician Halford Mackinder's worst nightmare - a cooperative convergence of mutual interests of the major states of Eurasia, born of necessity and need for oil to fuel economic growth - was emerging. Ironically, it was the blatant US grab for the vast oil riches of Iraq and, potentially, of Iran that catalyzed closer cooperation between traditional Eurasian foes, China and Russia, and a growing realization in western Europe that their options too were narrowing.
The peak king Peak Oil theory is based on a 1956 paper by the late Marion King Hubbert, a Texas geologist working for Shell Oil. He argued that oil wells produced in a bell-curve manner, and once their "peak" was hit, inevitable decline followed. He predicted that US oil production would peak in 1970. A modest man, he named the production curve he invented Hubbert's Curve, and the peak as Hubbert's Peak. When US oil output began to decline in about 1970, Hubbert gained a certain fame.
The only problem was, it peaked not because of resource depletion in the US fields. It "peaked" because Shell, Mobil, Texaco and the other partners of Saudi Aramco were flooding the US market with dirt-cheap imports from the Middle East, tariff-free, at prices so low California and many Texas domestic producers could not compete and were forced to shut their wells.
Vietnam success While the US oil multinationals were busy controlling the easily accessible large fields of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran and other areas of cheap, abundant oil during the 1960s, the Russians were busy testing their alternative theory. They began drilling in a supposedly barren region of Siberia. There they developed 11 major oilfields and one giant field based on their deep abiotic geological estimates. They drilled into crystalline basement rock and hit black gold of a scale comparable to the Alaska North Slope.
They then went to Vietnam in the 1980s and offered to finance drilling costs to show that their new geological theory worked. Russian company Petrosov drilled in Vietnam's White Tiger oilfield offshore into basalt rock some 5,000 meters down and extracted 6,000 barrels a day of oil to feed the energy-starved Vietnam economy. In the USSR, abiotic-trained Russian geologists perfected their knowledge and the Soviet Union emerged as the world's largest oil producer by the mid-1980s. Few in the West understood why, or bothered to ask.
Dr J F Kenney is one of the only Western geophysicists who has taught and worked in Russia, studying under Vladilen Krayushkin, who developed the huge Dnieper-Donets Basin. Kenney told me in a recent interview that "alone to have produced the amount of oil to date that [Saudi Arabia's] Ghawar field has produced would have required a cube of fossilized dinosaur detritus, assuming 100% conversion efficiency, measuring 19 miles [30.5 kilometers] deep, wide and high." In short, an absurdity.
Western geologists do not bother to offer hard scientific proof of fossil origins. They merely assert their belief as a holy truth. The Russians have produced volumes of scientific papers, most in Russian. The dominant Western journals have no interest in publishing such a revolutionary view. Careers, entire academic professions are at stake, after all.
Closing the door The 2003 arrest of Russian Mikhail Khodorkovsky, of Yukos Oil, took place just before he could sell a dominant stake in Yukos to ExxonMobil after a private meeting with Cheney. Had Exxon gotten the stake, it would have had control of the world's largest resource of geologists and engineers trained in the abiotic techniques of deep drilling.
Since 2003, Russian scientific sharing of knowledge has markedly lessened. Offers in the early 1990s to share knowledge with US and other oil geophysicists were met with cold rejection, according to American geophysicists involved.
Why then the high-risk war to control Iraq? For a century, US and allied Western oil giants have controlled world oil via control of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Nigeria. Today, as many giant fields are declining, the companies see the state-controlled oilfields of Iraq and Iran as the largest remaining base of cheap, easy oil.
With the huge demand for oil from China and now India, it becomes a geopolitical imperative for the United States to take direct military control of those Middle East reserves as fast as possible. Cheney came to the job of vice president from Halliburton Corp, the world's largest oil-geophysical-services company. The only potential threat to that US control of oil just happens to lie inside Russia and with the now-state-controlled Russian energy giants.
According to Kenney, Russian geophysicists used the theories of brilliant German scientist Alfred Wegener fully 30 years before Western geologists "discovered" Wegener in the 1960s. In 1915, Wegener published the seminal text The Origin of Continents and Oceans, which suggested an original unified landmass or Pangaea more than 200 million years ago that separated into present continents by what he called continental drift.
Up to the 1960s, supposed US scientists such as Dr Frank Press, the White House science adviser, referred to Wegener as "lunatic". Geologists at the end of the 1960s were forced to eat their words as Wegener offered the only interpretation that allowed them to discover the vast oil resources of the North Sea.
Perhaps in some decades Western geologists will rethink their mythology of fossil origins and realize what the Russians have known since the 1950s. In the meantime, Moscow holds a massive energy trump card.
F William Engdahl, author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order, Pluto Press Ltd. To contact: www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net.
|
|
| | |
| | | 81 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 10:12
|
i wonder why story has not been getting more discussion.
Oil tax talk
|
|
| | | 82 | Perm Dude
ID: 35612218 Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 10:21
|
I was surprised to see that the gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993. That's a very long time, particularly since the cost of building and maintaining roads has gone up a ton since then. I think just indexing the tax to inflation is probably a better idea than raising it flat out.
Still, this seems like a terrible time to be considering a tax increase. Should be been done some time ago, and maybe should be considered in the future. But not right now.
|
|
| | | 83 | nerveclinic
ID: 5047110 Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 14:01
|
I was surprised to see that the gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993.
Tax on the poor.
|
|
| | | 84 | Perm Dude
ID: 35612218 Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 14:19
|
To build roads used by the poor.
|
|
| | | 85 | Boldwin
ID: 406201020 Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 23:53
|
Obviously there is no tax regressive enuff that a Dem won't salivate at the thot of raising it.
|
|
| | | 86 | Perm Dude
ID: 35612218 Tue, Jul 22, 2008, 00:09
|
Obviously.
|
|
|
|