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| Posted by: Boldwin
- [426171711] Sun, Jul 17, 2005, 19:30
MBJ set me to thinking the other day that the average person thinks China is a toothless dragon whose day has long passed and nothing to worry about. I think that is the exact opposite of the truth. So let's decide whether China is a danger in the short or midterm.
The following is just a starter I came across, not even the most harmful thing I can think of off the top of my head. China Cyberspying on U.S. Companies
Chinese computer hackers are stealing American industrial secrets – with the tacit approval of the Chinese government, Forbes magazine reports.
A Trojan horse – code used to steal information from computers via the Internet – emerged last summer and swiped documents from compromised computers.
At least 11 other versions of the program, named Myfip, were widely circulated in the months that followed, and sought to gather files used to store mechanical designs and electronic circuit board schematics, according to Forbes.
Finally in May, a senior researcher at the Myrtle Beach, S.C., security company Lurhq reverse-engineered Myfip's code and found the program was sending stolen information to Tianjin, China’s third-largest city and a major center of the country's electronics industry.
"This electronic theft is taking place with the tacit okay, or at least the nonintervention, of the Beijing government," according to Forbes.
Said John Watters, chief of Idefense, a Reston, Va., intelligence firm: "Nothing suggests that Chinese authorities are vigilantly prosecuting those who are attacking foreign interests.
"They turn a blind eye to it as long as it doesn’t oppose national interests." What is a concern is the ubiquitous nature of this parasitic stance. Some have said it isn't so much conscious strat as just cultural lack of respect for private property but all these Chinese corporations are owned by members of the former chicom 'mafia' and their conduct might as well be considered China's official policy.
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| | | 1 | nerveclinic
ID: 3454230
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 00:59
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Is the United States harmless?
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| | | 2 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 05:45
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No one would say America isn't the world's hyperpower. The question is whether America can afford to ignore their defenses to threats from that direction.
Biblically speaking the anglo-american hyperpower is a sheep in appearance with big strong bloody teeth.
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| | | 3 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 116381517
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 06:55
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China is not harmless in the mid-term. With her vast need for energy and food supplies to keep her enormous population orderly and fed, the awakening giant will be stretching out more and more. Currently, China is already competing for oil drills near and inside the sea borders of our strong Pacific ally, Japan.
Russia, too, may have to cower and concede to China's overwhelming numbers and needs, eventually.
There is so much to consider with China - food, oil, energy, Russia, Japan, North Korea, etc.; it's overwhelming.
But, India, the most populous democracy, is one of the key cogs in our relationship with the almost fully awake dragon.
China is awakening - Russia knows, Japan knows, India knows, Australia knows, Europe knows and some of our military leaders know.
[Ooops, apologizes for my late, errr, early morning, drunken, generalized rant.]
---Boldwin, just a crazy idea, and maybe crazy, but would it ever cross the Chinese minds to make a deal with Hillary? or other politicians? (Just thinking - China will want to influence our elections, and no doubt, they will try.) ---
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| | | 4 | sarge33rd
ID: 45522117
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 07:16
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China will want to influence our elections, and no doubt, they will try.
Of course they will want to and will try. Just as we do with every other nations elections. (And I would dare say, so too does every other nation on the planet, to the degree they are capable of projecting any influence.)
Is China "harmless"? No. But then neither are we, nor is GB, nor is France for that matter. China does pose an "interesting" dilemma though, if you consider conventional warfare vs them. I recall a computer simulatioon we ran back in the late 70's or early 80's, premised on the "what if" we were forced into a conflict against them. Frontline troops (infantry, armor and artillery...) in that simulation, expended their entire "combat load" of ammunition, M60 machine gun barrels got red hot and essentially melted down, and the troops were literally overrun by human waves. The sheer numbers of bodies the Chinese could theoretically throw at an opponent, is pure and simple....overwhelming.
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| | | 5 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 08:33
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WM
Huge can of worms I don't have time to go into atm. You have heard of...Mochtar Riady and his son, James, who control the Indonesian-based Lippo Group conglomerate and have been friends and supporters of President Clinton since his days as Arkansas governor, "have had a long-term relationship with a Chinese intelligence agency," according to an unclassified final draft of a report by the Senate committee that last year investigated campaign finance abuses.
...longtime Democratic fund-raiser Maria Hsia, as "an agent of the Chinese government...
The Panama Canal being owned by China, The Gore/buddhist monks fundraiser, John Huang, Charlie Trie, China owning a military base in California, tech transfers of satelite, nuclear missile, and communications and computer tech, Loral, witnesses and fundraisers fleeing to China in droves to avoid testifying...we haven't even gotten started on this subject, believe me.
And before you accuse me of reflexive Clinton bashing, the reason Fred Thomson's committee in the Senate investigating this foundered was because the Republicans were as bought by the Chinese as the Dems so they didn't dare persue this any further. There was a House Committee that got a bit more done on this but the media mostly blacked out coverage to save Bill's backside.
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| | | 6 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 08:35
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Another explosive issue is China's expansionism regarding islands in the Pacific. Tiawan by no means being the only one.
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| | | 7 | Stuck in the 60s
Dude
ID: 274132811
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 09:09
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Despite its problems, China will be the world's predominant power within 100 years. Assuming their population stays stable (and it seems to be increasing, even relatively)it will have more brilliant minds than any other country.
Because of the Wal-Mart example, China need never worry about trade imbalance.
If they ever decide to go after Taiwan, we will be helpless to stop them. Problem is, we may decide to try.
Don
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| | | 8 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 09:20
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it will have more brilliant minds than any other country. - 60's
Where are they going to get those? Do they just float to the top by virtue of China having so many more people?
I would imagine having an economic system that efficiently gives good minds opportunities, and good education are many times more important.
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| | | 9 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 09:25
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BTW Ken Star in his legal career was a Chinese lobbyist. Small world?
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| | | 10 | Boldwin
ID: 426171711
Mon, Jul 18, 2005, 09:48
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How significant were Chinese interests?
Who was the biggest contributor to the Clinton-Gore ticket in 1992? Indonesian businessman James Riady of Lippo Group fame, conduit of Chinese campaign coontributions. Lippo fronted in the U.S. for Chinese government interests because of business ties between the company and government-controlled China Resources Corp. . . .
In 1985, the FBI interrogation record says, China Resources allegedly paid for a Lippo-organized trip to Asia by then-Arkansas Governor Clinton. . . . The FBI says ... that China Resources was controlled by the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation, the primary lobbying agent for most-favored-nation trade status for China. Clinton immediately awarded China...you'll never guess it...most favored trade status.
Bernard Schwartz, chairman of Loral was the number one contributor to the Democrats in both the 1995-1996 and 1997-1998 campaign cycles.
Amazingly Loral repeatedly enjoyed regular waivers of the Tiananmen sanctions that allowed him to transform Chinese intercontinental missiles and Long March rockets that used to blow up every other launch, into reliable vehicles.
link
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| | | 11 | Seattle Zen
ID: 529121611
Sat, Nov 10, 2007, 00:58
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To answer the thread title - Let's hope so
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| | | 12 | Boldwin
ID: 3013265
Sun, Feb 10, 2008, 20:03
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Not harmless.
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| | | 13 | Tree
ID: 50137108
Sun, Feb 10, 2008, 20:32
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so, it's not ok for the Chinese to torture as they see fit, but it is ok for the U.S. to torture as it sees fit?
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| | | 14 | Wilmer McLean
ID: 15159100
Sun, Feb 10, 2008, 20:56
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China Shrinks
NY Times
December 9, 2007
Few people noticed, but China got smaller the other day. According to new estimates, the colossal Chinese economy that has been making marketers salivate and giving others an inferiority complex may be roughly 40 percent smaller than previously thought: worth $6 trillion rather than $10 trillion. That means it lost a chunk roughly the size of Japan’s output.
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The problem is that the World Bank’s measure of China’s rate, everybody’s benchmark, had been based on a 1980s survey of Chinese prices. This year, the World Bank did its own survey to update the measure. While the bank has not published it yet, Albert Keidel of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace extrapolated the figure from another set of exchange rates published by the Asian Development Bank.
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I don’t think China’s leaders have said anything about the recalibration. But they should be pretty pleased. China has been known to enjoy throwing its weight around, but being big also exacts a cost. If a country is that wealthy, others can demand that it start pulling its weight and play more by the international rules. If China is less wealthy, and less a rival, maybe some members of the United States Congress will not press it so hard to revalue its exchange rate. Using the earlier estimate, China’s economy was due to surpass the $13 trillion American economy in about five years. At $6 trillion, it may look somewhat less scary.
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| | | 15 | Boldwin
ID: 3013265
Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 14:34
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Tree
First of all I haven't supported torture from any country.
Secondly you can't show me any comparable picture depicting USA torture and I hope there never is anything comparable.
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| | | 16 | Perm Dude
ID: 3711109
Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 14:42
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I don't think there are any pictures for public consumption, anyway.
Just heard yesterday that 1/3 of the world's smokers live in China--up to 850 million people. Maybe our capitalism will finally work them over through a collapsing Chinese health care system...
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| | | 17 | Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 15:17
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First of all I haven't supported torture from any country.
my apologies then. i thought you supported the waterboarding, but i must be mistaken.
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