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| Posted by: Tree
- Sustainer [599393013] Mon, Sep 12, 2005, 12:55
the other thread was getting long - and this is a slightly different topic anyway.
Bush allies getting Katrina work
surprise surprise surprise surprise.
guess who?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Companies with ties to the Bush White House and the former head of FEMA are clinching some of the administration's first disaster relief and reconstruction contracts in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
At least two major corporate clients of lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's former campaign manager and a former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, have already been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast.
One is Shaw Group Inc. and the other is Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. Vice President Dick Cheney is a former head of Halliburton.
Bechtel National Inc., a unit of San Francisco-based Bechtel Corp., has also been selected by FEMA to provide short-term housing for people displaced by the hurricane. Bush named Bechtel's CEO to his Export Council and put the former CEO of Bechtel Energy in charge of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation. |
| | | 1 | biliruben
ID: 531202411 Mon, Sep 12, 2005, 13:03
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Some longer-term issues
Our leaders don't have the courage to tell us that we can't continue to live this way, because too many jobs, incomes, and votes would have to go with it. They may not have the courage to even face the facts themselves. They may be hostages -- like most other Americans -- to the belief that a drive-in society is the only conceivable way to live, or the best, or simply normative.
The suburban project, which has preoccupied us since the end of the Second World War, can be seen now in light of the gathering global energy predicament as the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world. Having put so much of our post-war wealth into this massive infrastructure for daily living, we are captives of it, subject to a corrosive psychology of previous investment, which does not permit us to imagine letting go of this way of life, or even reforming it. ----
What about the x-thousand number of people around America beyond the Gulf Coast who, up until the day after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, were making plans to put in an offer on a new house 38 miles outside of Dallas (or Minneapolis, or Denver, or Washington, DC, etc.)?
What if, all of a sudden, with a full tank in their Ford Expedition costing almost $100, they begin to calculate that living 38 miles from town isn't such a great idea anymore? Surely this is occurring to some potential buyers. We won't really know until the home sales figures come in a month from now. What's more, many of them may decide that a new McMansion in a distant suburb is a bad idea not only for themselves, but an even worse idea from an investment point-of-view, in case they are buying the house just to "flip" it for the expected 10 percent annual rise in value that such houses have enjoyed in recent years. ---
Much of the stuff just outside New Orleans, and along the Gulf Coast, was largely post-war suburban fabric -- housing subdivisions, collector boulevards with their complements of fry pits, malls, muffler shops and big box out-parcels. We'd hope that the states of Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana will not undertake to rebuild them they way they were. But the existing template reflects a pattern of property ownership that is not easily changed. The New Urbanists have a good record of retrofitting some of these things. For instance they have had some success in turning "dead" malls into mixed use town centers. But some of this stuff, in particular single-family housing developments, do not lend themselves very well to reform.
Many of the debates over the suburban extravaganza have been framed in terms of the "choices" Americans make. Suburbia, it is often said by cheerleaders like David Brooks of The New York Times, or Wendell Cox of the Reason Institute, represents a favorable "choice" on a big menu that includes city apartment life, or a cabin in the woods, or a soybean farm. I'd argue that the suburban choice is coming off the menu. ---
Interestingly, The New York Times ran a front-page headline on September 4 to the effect of, "U.S. Economy Not Affected by Hurricane." This is the thinking now at the highest levels of news gathering among a group I hesitate to label the power elite -- but they do exist, even for those of us allergic to conspiracy theories.
This is why we have such poor leadership: an utter failure of imagination among our leaders, including politics, business and the media.
The hurricane that shredded the Gulf Coast will have consequences, but mainly in accelerating structural problems already present in American society, with its gross imbalances and collectively suicidal economic behavior.
The next thing to look for: If fewer suburban houses are sold because of higher energy prices, the creation of false liquidity in the form of mortgages spun out of thin air will cease. If this stream of false liquidity ceases, the government-sponsored entities who bundle all this debt into tradable instruments will find themselves in trouble. If they go off the rails, the American finance sector will follow like a choo-choo train.
Things could get very serious. And just because of some bad weather.
I don't agree with the final flippant thought, but he does bring up some important things to think about.
Kunstler
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| | | 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Mon, Sep 12, 2005, 14:28
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ProRev:THE BUSH REGIME has outsourced New Orleans body removal to Kenyon international, a wholly owned subsidiary of SCI Corporation, owned by major Bush contributor and friend Robert Waltrip. SCI and Waltrip were last featured in the Review under the headline: "Bush Buddy Buried Bodies In Bushes Badly." I guess Smith was proud of that one. Anyway, here's a couple of the excerpts listed at the ProRev piece (most are linked to the original articles there):NOAH BIERMAN, MIAMI HERALD, 2003 - The world's largest funeral home chain will pay $100 million to Jewish families whose loved-ones' remains were mishandled and mangled at two South Florida cemeteries. . . The pay-out closes a class-action suit against Houston-based Service Corporation International on behalf of families with plots at Menorah Gardens cemeteries in northern Palm Beach and western Broward counties. In some cases, cemetery employees disinterred bodies and tossed bones into the woods to make room at the crowded, oversold cemetery grounds. The allegations were particularly appalling to the Jewish cemetery's more religiously observant clientele. Jewish law explicitly prohibits disturbance of the dead. . .
The late Col. Hyman Cohen was buried in 1983 in a spot in the Palm Beach County cemetery reserved for a woman, Frances Gold, of Pembroke Pines. She died six years later. With no room for both bodies, employees dug up Cohen's remains, cracking his vault and throwing some of his bones into the woods. Others were mixed in with Gold's.
JANE SUTTON, REUTERS - It said cemetery workers broke open some burial vaults and dumped the bodies in the woods, and crushed down other coffins to make room for new coffins on top of them. It also alleged that body parts of different people were mixed together when the buried vaults were broken open and that people who bought side-by-side plots were actually buried head-to-toe or on top of each other. The plaintiffs' lawyers said hundreds of bodies were mishandled and that there were some 700 people with claims against the two cemeteries . . . The lawsuit was filed a day after Florida Attorney General Bob Butterworth subpoenaed all of SCI's Florida burial records dating back to 1990 as part of an investigation into its business practices.
ROBERT BRYCE, SALON, SEP 29, 1999 - In recent months, SCI stumbled into the national media spotlight thanks to the presidential race. In March, Waltrip and SCI were named as defendants in a whistleblower lawsuit in Texas that involves allegations that presidential front-runner George W. Bush intervened on SCI's behalf to help stop an investigation by the state's regulatory agency. Waltrip and SCI are big financial contributors to Bush, and Waltrip is also a personal friend of former President Bush, endowing the Bush library with $100,000.
SCI has powerful friends in both political parties. Former Rep. Tony Coelho, chairman of Al Gore's presidential campaign, sits on SCI's board of directors. It's a lucrative job. According to the company's proxy statement, SCI pays Coelho $21,000 per year just to sit on the board and an additional $6,000 for each meeting he attends. Coelho also owns more than $450,000 worth of SCI stock.
Despite those influential friends, a number of troubling specters are creeping up on the company. Tort lawyers, consumer advocates and regulators are all taking aim at the Houston-based death care giant. Plaintiff's lawyers in Florida are suing SCI, claiming the company sold an exorbitantly expensive funeral to an elderly, mentally incompetent widow. In Washington state and Texas, lawyers are suing the firm, maintaining it has mishandled corpses. Company shareholders have filed a class-action lawsuit, alleging SCI officials withheld troubling earnings data that caused the stock price to dip.
Consumer advocates are constantly taking swipes at the company. Karen Leonard, the head of the Sebastopol, Calif.-based Redwood Funeral Society, who worked as the late Jessica Mitford's research assistant on her last book, "The American Way of Death Revisited," has become one of the country's leading critics of SCI. She claims SCI has "made price gouging state of the art. "They've been able to take the emotions that make people spend more - guilt and fear of death - and have played those like an orchestra and have made tremendous amounts of money. They are taking advantage of consumers on all fronts, by secrecy, by their ability to control regulations and their ability to give money to politicians."
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| | | 4 | Pancho Villa
ID: 197552915 Wed, Sep 14, 2005, 23:50
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The reconstruction of New Oraq
In recent weeks, news has been seeping out of Iraq that the "reconstruction" of that country is petering out, because the money is largely gone. According to American officials, reported T Christian Miller of the Los Angeles Times last week, "The US will halt construction work on some water and power plants in Iraq because it is running out of money for projects." A variety of such reconstruction projects crucial to the everyday lives of Iraqis, the British Guardian informs us, are now "grinding to a halt" as "plans to overhaul the country's infrastructure have been downsized, postponed or abandoned because the $24 billion budget approved by Congress has been dwarfed by the scale of the task."
Water and sanitation projects have been particularly hard hit; while staggering sums, once earmarked for reconstruction, are being shunted to private security firms whose hired guns are assigned to guard the projects that can't be done. With funds growing scarce, various corporations closely connected to the Bush administration, having worked the Iraqi disaster for all it was worth (largely under no-bid, cost-plus contracts), are now looking New Orleans-ward.
This is an article that spells out the cronyism of the Bush administration in no uncertain terms. The saddest part is that there is really nothing new or unknown in the article, just a general review of what most Americans know and, by their lack of outraged protest, accept.
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| | | 5 | biliruben
ID: 531202411 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 10:25
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What I want to konw is who are the 8% who are now more confident in the government's ability to respond to a natural disaster or terrorist attack? Did they interview dead people?
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| | | 6 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 10:41
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With so few people left in New Orleans, the next New Orleans Cat 4 hurricane hit should be a breeze. So to speak.
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| | | 7 | Tree Sustainer
ID: 599393013 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 10:45
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What I want to konw is who are the 8% who are now more confident in the government's ability to respond to a natural disaster or terrorist attack? Did they interview dead people?
Baldwin and his family?
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| | | 8 | Razor
ID: 1477414 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 10:49
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Well, one could make the argument that they are talking about a future terrorist attack or natural disaster, and hopefully the investigations and reorganization that follows this catastrophe will better prepare us for future incidents. On the flipside, 9/11 and the ensuing reorganization and restrategizing was supposed to have us ready for disasters already.
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| | | 9 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 11:51
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Ready for disasters? Is it beyond everyone that there are some disasters that you simply cannot be ready enough for? If we have a continuum like this
Hostage Crisis<-------------------------------------------->World Blows Up
Where can we put an "X" and say "Ok, now the Government better be there for me if anything left of that happens"?
Would you all be bitching so much if a tsunami had hit and we had hundreds of thousands dead? Rhetorical question.
Find the X on that line before you continue with your marathon "The Government Sucks" filibuster. Use some common sense.
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| | | 10 | Tortfeasor
ID: 01042813 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 12:31
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I am only a lurker here lately, and not even much of a lurker at that, but post 9 is about the most sense I've seen here lately. The government can't prepare for every possible contingency. It can only prepare for the known ones. Yes, that the levees would break in New Orleans was known, but what are you going to do about it? You can't put a dome over the place. Further, you can only evacuate the people who want to leave (and are physically able). The evacuation effort began on Saturday morning before the storm, a full 1 1/2 days before the storm hit.
For those of you who have never lived in New Orleans, you cannot fully appreciate the difficulty of the task that was/is/will be confronting aid efforts. There are only four ways into the city (literally): across the I-10 twinspan from the east (damaged and, I believe, not traversable); across the Causeway (washed away in part, not traversable); across the Huey P. Long bridge (damaged and not traversable); and on I-10 from the west (the only available route into the city, but Metairie is flooded). Getting into the city is extremely difficult.
The government probably could have been more prepared, but without an understanding of the geography/topography of New Orleans, it is difficult to be appreciative of the fact that only a week after the hurricane, they had evacuated everyone who wanted to leave from the city.
And this is not to mention the fact that New Orleans was a poor, crime-ridden city to begin with. Not that that is an excuse for any kind of reaction that was given, but really more of an explanation regarding what I believe to be one of the root causes for the hurdles that had to be overcome by aid efforts. Evidence of this can easily be seen in the lawlessness and looting that ocurred post-storm.
Just a few of my jumbled thoughts. I lived in New Orleans for three years, have some of my best friends there, and presently have a family of four from New Orleans living with me who witnessed what happened firsthand. I am simply stating some my own observations and my houseguests' firsthand knowledge.
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| | | 11 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 12:53
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The evacuation effort began on Saturday morning before the storm, a full 1 1/2 days before the storm hit.
What evacuation effort? There wasn't an evacuation effort, other than the mayor going on TV and telling everyone to evacuate. That isn't an effort. That's like telling a person who is about to die of thirst that he really needs to go have a drink. There would have been an evacuation effort if the city or state or local government had taken it upon themselves to try to move out some of these people who don't have any transportation of their own.
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| | | 12 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:01
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The first step is to tell people to leave. That way the vast majority of people who can leave will. It's only when you get the people out who can leave that you will even know who is left.
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| | | 13 | biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:12
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140,000 people in New Orleans do not have vehicles. There was no evacuation effort at all for these poeple. None.
Until the storm and crisis was over and now they want to "reconstruct" them right on out of their home town. Pronto.
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| | | 14 | Tree Sustainer
ID: 599393013 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:23
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Ready for disasters? Is it beyond everyone that there are some disasters that you simply cannot be ready enough for? If we have a continuum like this
you're missing the point.
it's not so much as being ready for a disaster, as it is being ready to deal with everything going on after the disaster.
which our government was clearly not ready for. this was a disaster far larger in scope than probably any local government can handle.
the responsibility goes to the feds. continue to defend them like a good little foot soldier, but plenty of people, from the left to the right, have rightfully condemnded our government for their monumental screw up.
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| | | 15 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:27
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There was no evacuation effort at all for these poeple. None.
This, I presume, is why the elderly and infirm became the first Hurricane Katrina deaths on school buses headed toward Baton Rouge. Interesting definition of "none".
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| | | 16 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:30
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No one is disputing that, bili. But there's no need to mischaracterize the evacuation efforts by discounting the early evacuation calls, which were done in a timely manner. Would you have had them hold off on calling for that evacuation?
It's quite simple: The first step in any evacuation is to make an early call for those people who can get out to do so. There were plenty of misteps later, but the appropriateness of neither the timing nor the content of that first step is changed by later events.
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| | | 17 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:36
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PD, exactly how long are officials supposed to wait after calling for an evacuation before they should begin preparing to move people without the means to go on their own?
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| | | 18 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:38
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Madman, this is the first I've heard of anyone dying on any busses headed out of town. Frankly, I hadn't heard of any public evacuation efforts of any kind at all. Do you have a link?
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| | | 19 | Sludge
ID: 27751510 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:41
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the responsibility goes to the feds.
You demean MC for being a "good little foot soldier", but your consistent implications that the blame falls squarely on the feds reveals you to be the very same thing.
As more and more is leaking slowly out, it is becoming likely (if not apparent) that the federal government deserves some large degree of the blame. As much as you'd like to pin on them? Hardly. There is also plenty coming out that doesn't bode well for the state and local governments.
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| | | 20 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:52
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MITH: Define "preparing." I would define it as "years previously, when plans were drawn up for this eventuality."
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| | | 21 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:52
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Well, it's much more than just making a freaking call. In our haste to relieve our guilt by laying blame, we should at least be careful about what we say. The plan to evac New Orleans was complicated, and took work. Just because people are using their own cars doesn't mean that it didn't take a lot of work to get it done.
Contraflow system overload
evac going well
Lastly, don't forget that only 10,000 or so took advantage of the free bus rides to the Superdome ... actually, it's even fewer than that, because some of the people there did have cars (see the story), and if they didn't have cars, we still don't know if they knew people who had cars.
I think people are conflating the lack of collated data with reality on the ground. It is presumptuous to make assertions on the latter based upon the former, especially when hindsight bias is seemingly so clear. No evidence has been presented on what the effective binding constraint was.
No mass evacuation of 100% of a city's people has ever been attempted prior to an event, nor had it been advocated, nor had it been advertised. This is a new goal, presented without justification aside from the horrible images we have seen on TV. Practical considerations have unsurprisingly been tossed out the window, and people are living in a world of idealized assumptions while they ironically criticize the fact that our world is not ideal.
Lastly, the Mayor purposefully DELAYED the evac. order, ostensibly because the evac. plan suggested outlying areas needed to evac. first to avoid congestion. As PD noted, the evac. orders happened with an amazing promptness and with stellar foresight (we can say in retrospect). Whatever complaints people may have about later outcomes, they should be careful about issuing unsubstantiated complaints about pre-hurricane prep. At the time, people were praised for their efforts, and I think deservedly so. Maybe the bar should have been set higher. Maybe we see that now. But every single one of us were complicit in where that bar was set. Further, few of us (if any) have offered concrete, reasonable, and realistic mechanisms for achieving higher standards. If you want to criticize, provide facts, not blather like I have just done. ;)
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| | | 22 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 13:57
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Lastly, the Mayor purposefully DELAYED the evac. order, ostensibly because the evac. plan suggested outlying areas needed to evac. first to avoid congestion.
Upon re-read, I should clarify the purpose of this remark. My point was that there just wasn't a ton of time. Nagin's decision to delay the mandatory evacuation until Sunday is questionable in retrospect, but he offered seemingly plausible reasons. Further, from one of the articles I linked, substantially evac. was going on Saturday, regardless.
There are only so many resources, and only so much time. The evac. orders and emergency declarations happened with what appear to be historic speed.
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| | | 23 | Razor
ID: 36241218 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 14:04
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As more and more is leaking slowly out, it is becoming likely (if not apparent) that the federal government deserves some large degree of the blame. As much as you'd like to pin on them? Hardly. There is also plenty coming out that doesn't bode well for the state and local governments.
It's not that difficult, really. Nearly all of the pre-hurricane mistakes belong to the local and state governments. Nearly all of the post-hurricane mistakes belong to the federal government. Could the horrible situation in the days that followed Katrina hitting New Orleans been avoided if the local government had done everything in its power to evacuate everyone? Sure. But that's simply not feasible in two days time. The onus then falls on the federal government to protect its citizens when the local and state governments are too decimated to do anything. It was a big job, absolutely, but I have little doubt that it was bungled badly.
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| | | 24 | Sludge
ID: 27751510 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 14:29
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Nearly all of the post-hurricane mistakes belong to the federal government.
No, it's not that simple. The federal government cannot just go into a state and assume command regardless of how decimated the local and state governments are without following certain legal procedures. I would note, however, that the local and state governments, judging by the plethora of interviews and press conferences immediately following the disaster, wasn't as decimated as you would like to portray them as. (The police in New Orleans are a different story.) The federal government is supposed to act in conjunction with and with the cooperation of (and in many - if not all - cases with the permission of) the local and state governments. That recent changes in disaster response is supposed to streamline this process does not mean that we have yet agreed to hand the master key of any city in crisis over to the federal government.
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| | | 25 | Tree Sustainer
ID: 599393013 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 14:38
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You demean MC for being a "good little foot soldier", but your consistent implications that the blame falls squarely on the feds reveals you to be the very same thing.
absolutely false. are all the Republicans who have said our government failed us also being "good little foot soldiers"? no, they're being rightly critical of a government that has let its people down.
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| | | 26 | Sludge
ID: 27751510 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 14:52
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absolutely false. are all the Republicans who have said our government failed us also being "good little foot soldiers"? no, they're being rightly critical of a government that has let its people down.
Once again, you exhibit an inability to comprehend a point. Appropriate criticism ought to be leveled in appropriate levels and in appropriate areas. To focus nearly exclusively (as you do) on only one facet of the whole jewel makes you, almost by definition, a "good little foot soldier". (To say that the one facet is the only one that exists makes you something else.)
Not that being a good little foot soldier is necessarily a bad thing. We all are to one degree or another. But to demean someone because of it while being one yourself is a different matter. I think it has a name. Something that starts with an "h"?
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| | | 27 | Pancho Villa
ID: 197552915 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 15:18
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The federal government cannot just go into a state and assume command regardless of how decimated the local and state governments are without following certain legal procedures.
The federal government cannot just imprison somebody without certain legal procedures as well. Until the Jose Padilla case, that is.
There are some seriously grey areas as to what the legal procedures are, now that the Dept of Homeland Security has been created. Here is an interesting article about Homeland Security's preparations for a New Orleans disaster in 2004.
Purple Crescent and Purple Crescent II
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| | | 28 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 15:35
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MC - after his excellent post #9...
Tortfeasor - but post 9 is about the most sense I've seen here lately. The government can't prepare for every possible contingency. It can only prepare for the known ones. Yes, that the levees would break in New Orleans was known, but what are you going to do about it? You can't put a dome over the place.
Well said gentlemen. It is not clear to me at all that protecting NO was even feasible in the first place. There has been emergency planning and prevention work all last century and one of the reasons, I believe, that they didn't have NO protected better is that protecting a city below sea level, surrounded by a huge lake, the continents largest river at it's largest point, and an ocean from storm surge and flooding during a Cat-5 hurricane wasn't realistic. The safety of that city probably never will be garanteed even if it was America's #1 national priority. Given the threat, it is just amazing to me that the environment movement was fighting every NO safty project imaginable tooth and nail to save some local clam variant. Even if they had built the levees and floodgates they wanted to it is unlikely they could have given them a 100% garantee of safety from flooding in a Cat-5 hurricane.
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| | | 29 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 15:36
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B, I'm still trying to find environmental obstruction to specific NO projects. Would you provide some links?
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| | | 30 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 16:22
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Even in my semi-retirement from the poliboard I am not so parsimonious as to withhold such linkage.As radical environmentalists continue to blame the ferocity of Hurricane Katrina’s devastation on President Bush’s ecological policies, a mainstream Louisiana media outlet inadvertently disclosed a shocking fact: Environmentalist activists were responsible for spiking a plan that may have saved New Orleans. Decades ago, the Green Left – pursuing its agenda of valuing wetlands and topographical “diversity” over human life – sued to prevent the Army Corps of Engineers from building floodgates that would have prevented significant flooding that resulted from Hurricane Katrina.
In the 1970s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Barrier Project planned to build fortifications at two strategic locations, which would keep massive storms on the Gulf of Mexico from causing Lake Pontchartrain to flood the city. An article in the May 28, 2005, New Orleans Times-Picayune stated, “Under the original plan, floodgate-type structures would have been built at the Rigolets and Chef Menteur passes to block storm surges from moving from the Gulf into Lake Pontchartrain.”
“The floodgates would have blocked the flow of water from the Gulf of Mexico, through Lake Borgne, through the Rigolets [and Chef Mentuer] into Lake Pontchartrain,” declared Professor Gregory Stone, the James P. Morgan Distinguished Professor and Director of the Coastal Studies Institute of Louisiana State University. “This would likely have reduced storm surge coming from the Gulf and into the Lake Pontchartrain,” Professor Stone told Michael P. Tremoglie during an interview on September 6. The professor concluded, “[T]hese floodgates would have alleviated the flooding of New Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina.”
As the Times-Picayune wrote, “Those plans were abandoned after environmental advocates successfully sued to stop the projects as too damaging to the wetlands and the lake's eco-system.” Specifically, in 1977, a state environmentalist group known as Save Our Wetlands (SOWL) sued to have it stopped. SOWL stated the proposed Rigolets and Chef Menteur floodgates of the Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Prevention Project would have a negative effect on the area surrounding Lake Pontchartrain. Further, SOWL’s recollection of this case demonstrates they considered this move the first step in a perfidious design to drain Lake Pontchartrain entirely and open the area to dreaded capitalist investment.
On December 30, 1977, U.S. District Judge Charles Schwartz Jr. issued an injunction against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Lake Pontchartrain hurricane protection project, demanding the engineers draw up a second environmental impact statement, three years after the corps submitted the first one. In one of the most ironic pronouncements of all time, Judge Schwartz wrote, “it is the opinion of the Court that plaintiffs herein have demonstrated that they, and in fact all persons in this area, will be irreparably harmed if the barrier project based upon the August, 1974 FEIS [federal environmental impact statement] is allowed to continue.”
If the Greens prevailed, it was not because the forces of common sense did not make a compelling case. SOWL’s account reveals that during the course of the trial the defense counsel, Gerald Gallinghouse – a Republican U.S. Attorney who acted as a special prosecutor during the Carter administration – felt so strongly that the project should continue that he told the judge he would “go before the United States Congress with [Democratic Louisiana Congressman] F. Edward Hebert to pass a resolution, exempting the Hurricane Barrier Project from the rules and regulations of the National Environmental Policy Act because, in his opinion, [this plan] is necessary to protect the citizens of New Orleans from a hurricane.” Despite this, the judge ruled in favor of the environmentalists. Ultimately, the project was aborted in favor of building up existing levees.
However, the old plan lived on in the minds of those who put human beings first. The Army Corps of Engineers as recently as last year had publicly discussed resuming the practice. The September-October 2004 edition of Riverside (the magazine of the New Orleans District Army Corps of Engineers Public Affairs Office) referred to this lawsuit and project. Eric Lincoln’s article titled, “Old Plans Revived for Category 5 Hurricane Protection,” stated:In 1977, plans for hurricane protection structures at the Rigolets and Chef Menteur Pass were sunk when environmental groups sued the district. They believed that the environmental impact statement did not adequately address several potential problems, including impacts on Lake Pontchartrain’s ecosystem and damage to wetlands.
Ultimately, an agreement between the parties resulted in a consent decree to forego the structures at the Rigolets and Chef Menteur Pass…The new initial feasibility study will look at protecting the area between the Pearl River and Mississippi River from a Category 5 storm…. The article added, “[A]lternatives that would be studied in the initial feasibility report are: Construction of floodgate structures, with environmental modifications, at Rigolets and Chef Pass.” The Times-Picayune recorded last May, “the corps wants to take another look [at building the floodgates] using more environmentally sensitive construction than was previously available.” This time the Army Corps of Engineers would modify the original plans because of the environmentalists. However, the project was already delayed more than two decades because of the environmentalists’ lawsuit. If begun immediately it would take another two decades to complete: a 40-year delay caused by the Green Left.
...these floodgates environmental activists sued to prevent from being constructed may have kept a flood from consuming the city to the extent it did in the first place. The current programs aimed at reinforcing existing levees [that the enviroweenies suggested as an alternative - B] would only prove effective against a level three hurricane; they were not adequate for a level five storm like Katrina. Moreover, they did not fortify the specific areas the government sought to protect, to keep Lake Pontchartrain from flooding the entire city, which everyone knew posed a danger to a city below sea level. In other words, this plan would have saved thousands of lives and kept one of the nation’s greatest cities from lying in ruins for a decade.
At a minimum, such a plan would have staved off a significant portion of the disaster that’s unfolded before our eyes.
Worse yet, the environmentalists’ ultimate decision to reinforce existing levees may have actually further harmed the Big Easy. There is at least one expert who claims the New Orleans levees made no difference – in fact, they contributed to the problem. Deputy Director of the LSU Hurricane Center and Director of the Center for the Study Public Health Impacts by Hurricanes Ivor van Heerden said, “The levees ‘have literally starved our wetlands to death’ by directing all of that precious silt out into the Gulf of Mexico.”
Thirty years after its legal action, Save Our Wetlands boasts, “SOWL's legacy lives on and on within the heart and spirit of every man, woman, child, bird, red fish, speckle trout, croakers, etc.” Indeed SOWL's legacy lives on and on.
Hey Bili, make sure your sister gives them a visit and shakes their hand.
...and if this story just has to have a spin that favors Dem presidents and if this just must be attributed to presidential planning ability , how about this...
The Army Corp of Engineers under President Carter's brilliant planning and precient leadership could have saved NO from a Cat-5 hurricane but for the stonewalling of environmentalists.
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| | | 31 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 16:28
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*fade to sunset*
[we see the last surviving SOWL activist enraptured with arms outstretched]
"Wetlands!"
*fade to black*
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| | | 32 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 18:39
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and if this story just has to have a spin that favors Dem presidents and if this just must be attributed to presidential planning ability
What does this story have to do with presidential planning ability?
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| | | 33 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 18:48
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I don't know anything about SOWL or the 1977 floodgate project (and neither does Baldwin) but it is worth pointing out that the version of events pasted into post 30 are not the way SOWL sees it.
saveourwetlands.org
I have no interest in defending them, for all I know every word in post 30 is true. But I know better than to accept propaganda as readily and as blindly as Baldwin does.
B, you don't even have the shame to think twice about presenting this stuff as fact.
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| | | 34 | Razor
ID: 158411118 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 21:33
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Powerful speech by Bush. Promised a lot of stuff. I don't really agree with all of what he said, but one of the best Bush speeches I've seen in a while. I'd agree with him a lot more if I knew where he was planning to get all this money from. Contrary to what some conservatives on this board think, some of us libs actually worry about do care about the bottom line.
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| | | 35 | Tree
ID: 548361520 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 21:38
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exactly. this will cost tens of billions of dollars, if not more.
we already know Bush won't raise taxes. so does our deficit get even larger?
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| | | 36 | sarge33rd
ID: 670916 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 21:47
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a 40-year delay caused by the Green Left.
really now Boldy...are you that inept???
...using more environmentally sensitive construction than was previously available.
just what would have been the environmental impact if the original plan went forward? The Judge apparently felt the report presented by the Govt, proved insufficient or detrimental. *shrug* Truth is, we'll never know what impact it may or may not have had. Your inability (unwillingness), to question the propoganda put forth which happens to support your side, makes everything you have to say...subject to derision, scrutiny and being taken with at least a grain of salt.
SOWL’s recollection of this case demonstrates they considered this move the first step in a perfidious design to drain Lake Pontchartrain entirely and open the area to dreaded capitalist investment.
Given recent decision by SCOTUS (allowing the takingof oriuvate property for commewrcial use) perhaps SOWL was being incredibly far-sighted here? What would have been the loss of life, had hotels, motels, and apartment buildings been put up in those areas?????
This would likely have reduced storm surge coming from the Gulf and into the Lake Pontchartrain,” Professor Stone told Michael P. Tremoglie during an interview on September 6. The professor concluded, “[T]hese floodgates would have alleviated the flooding of New Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina.”
likely and alleviated, are not conlusive claims of definitive prevention. They are, presumptions.
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| | | 37 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 22:11
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Without checking out all the links, my understanding is that New Orleans flooding was caused by a rupture in the levee. And that nothing planned was built to withstand more than a category 3 hurricane (this from the head of the Army Corps of Engineers in an interview last week).
So it's hard to say that an anti-enviromental article has much truth behind it, when the Corps of Engineers state that they have never planned for the very event the article states would have been negated.
Actually, they don't say that--they say the article would have, and the expert says it "might" have. Nice backup of one's points!
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| | | 38 | Pancho Villa
ID: 197552915 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 22:20
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However, the old plan lived on in the minds of those who put human beings first.
HaHa! This from David Horowitz's website, a guy who cheered as bombs were being dropped on the citizens of Fallujah. I really have a hard time believing a main proponent of the "Nuke Mecca" crowd ever though about putting human beings first. My annual $50 contribution to Save Our Wetlands just might get doubled this year.
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| | | 39 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 23:36
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and if this story just has to have a spin that favors Dem presidents and if this just must be attributed to presidential planning ability - B#30
What does this story have to do with presidential planning ability? - MITH#32
Yes MITH you stumble over the truth. Katrina had virtually nothing to do with presidents. But poliboard liberals insist that is the big story here. So if they refuse any interpretation or discussion of Katrina that doesn't make Dem presidents look better than Rep ones, then let them recognize that the Army Corp of Engineering plan that was designed to save NO from a Cat-5 just happened to come along during Carter's admin. Ultra-libs killed it but they can gloss over that maybe in their Katrina presidential campaign literature.
Civil service agencies that deal with these things are really mostly part of the 'permanent government' and whether they were hobbled by special interest groups or political appointees at the top will be an important part of the disaster post mortem.
When the dust settles I am betting NO residents are going to mighty pissed about the floodgates they deserved and didn't get.
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| | | 40 | Madman
ID: 114321413 Thu, Sep 15, 2005, 23:43
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PD -- check out the Coast 2050 plan. It has a similar design, in part. I hadn't thought of that angle of flood control; I was under the impression that environmentalists had come to grip with floodgates as part of Coast 2050 ... but that might have just been local. Plus, those impressions were from post-hoc op-eds written by advocates.
None of this probably made much sense without background. All I guess I am really saying is that the floodgates as described in Baldwin's article continue to be discussed as possible improvements in New Orlean's protection system. The idea: normally lake Pontchartrain flows into the Gulf. During a hurricane, the flow goes the other way. If you have floodgates you can close during hurricanes, you can keep a lot of water from ever getting into lake Pontchartrain. Therefore, levies currently designed to withstand Cat 3's are implicitly able to withstand stronger storms.
It's just *one piece* of a slew of needed reforms.
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| | | 41 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 08:55
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Baldwin Yes MITH you stumble over the truth.
No. I expose your deliberate mischaracterization of the questionable material that you continue to report as fact.
Katrina had virtually nothing to do with presidents. But poliboard liberals insist that is the big story here.
Many among both the left and right cite federal failures in the response to Katrina. The President staffs and runs the administration and even he himself rightfully takes responsibility for those federal failures. If you're going to make the case that we let the local and state Democrat leadership off the hook, you're going to have to put away your broad liberal brush and go after the few who might be doing so.
So if they refuse any interpretation or discussion of Katrina that doesn't make Dem presidents look better than Rep ones
Uh, Katrina - and the insufficient federal response to it - happened during a Republican Presidency. I don't know why I continue to bother, Baldwin, but when the administration fails to do an adequate job it by nature makes the president look bad. Despite your best efforts to pin this on environmentalists and Jimmy Carter and find reasons to say that Bush's widely criticized FEMA appointments were no worse than Clinton's. But the buck stops where it stops. Even Bush has come around to admit it.
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| | | 42 | Texas Flood
ID: 4175316 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 09:09
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I can't wait till the grifters and thugs that run NO get thier hands on the billions that will be poured into the re construction effort.
If you think Katrina was a disaster wait till you see this!
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| | | 43 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 09:16
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Agreed, sadly.
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| | | 44 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 09:20
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TF -- not just the thugs who run NO, but also the scumbags pretending to be refugees. NPR just ran a story on a local who got busted for cashing a $2,000 evacuee check. Bush's speech was an advertisement for a pot of gold. This may help the needy, but in the process it is going to attack all forms of humanity, including amoral types motivated exclusively by greed. What I heard was an announcement for open-hunting season on gov't funds.
Given that I'm not even sure we should continue to force the Mississippi to run through New Orleans, this just seems such a terrible waste.
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| | | 45 | Texas Flood
ID: 326462912 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 10:56
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I can't help but laugh at Ray Nagin he's an inept fool. He's now saying something along the lines of return to New Orleans everyone. We have troops, M-16's and even bazooka's to protect to you!
Thnaks for the invite Ray. I think I'll heard toward Burbon street for some shrimp gumbo and listen to some jazz.
That city is a still a death trap. Danger and disease have to be everywhere and speaking for myslef I wouldn't go anywhere near that city right now unless I was in protective gear.
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| | | 46 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 11:03
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I doubt thats true, TF. The lawlessness ended days ago so we know that shouldn't be a concern. Outside areas of total destruction there are plenty of reporters, officials and responders dressed in street clothes and standard uniforms. The French Quarter and other less affected parts of the city appear pretty safe.
Obviously, anyone who lived in areas where there was major destruction are not being asked to return home.
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| | | 47 | Texas Flood
ID: 326462912 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 11:05
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44, MM I was watching Fox News(hated by liberals everywhere)this a.m. and heard mention of how some of those cards were being used. Victorias Secret, Hooters, strip clubs and Best Buy to name a few. Govenrnment entitlements do NOTHING to help the poor long or short term.
The answser is EDUCATION, deisre and hard work. I sincerely hope as a country we can address the poverty issue with somthing besides more handouts!
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| | | 48 | Tree Sustainer
ID: 599393013 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 12:05
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I sincerely hope as a country we can address the poverty issue with somthing besides more handouts!
i think we should start by cutting taxes to the rich.
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| | | 49 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 12:10
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I really doubt, in the larger scheme of things, that those people pretending to need FEMA handouts (and get away with it) would be even a drop in the bucket compared to the carpetbaggers we're going to see in the Gulf region, bilking the government out of millions of dollars. It's so far from being comparable it's laughable.
[Of course, the more people are able to take FEMA for a ride, the less capable FEMA appears to be. Can't really have it both ways].
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| | | 50 | sarge33rd
ID: 27563010 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 12:24
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no it isnt. The answer......
get a job on the board at Halliburton. THATS how to bilk the govt out of meaningful handouts.
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| | | 51 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 14:22
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PD 49 -- didn't mean to say that they would be comparable in number, although I do suspect that the government will get SOMETHING for much of its "rebuilding" money.
But the deleterious impact on recovery efficacy from fraudulent claims could indeed be significant and sizeable.
TX 47 -- well, there's help and then there's help. A lot of that cash will indeed be wasted. But a lot of it will be spent fulfilling some very important needs. I don't view poverty as a "lack of cash" problem; I view poverty as primarily a cultural and/or economic problem. But the $2,000 cash give aways were just that -- giveaways. Hooters serves good food. ;) Actually, Best Buy sells home appliances, microwaves, etc. A $40 microwave would quickly pay for itself in reduced food bills for a family on a budget starting with nothing.
The comment about the "return to New Orleans" is rather pathetic. A week ago, they were talking about forcing grandmothers out of the home they had lived in all of their lives ... doing this at gunpoint. And now they are letting people back in? For real? Where is the strategic vision here?
Tree 48 -- i think we should start by cutting taxes to the rich.
Actually, I agree with you here.
Did anyone feel a bit of Hoover de ja vu in Bush's speech? I mean, this was eerie. Hoover's shift in focus to rebuilding early in the 1927 flood helped push him to national prominence. Direct funds for rebuilding from the feds weren't forthcoming, so he pushed subsidized loan programs and such. Utter catastrophe, although it helped catapult him to election in '28. It gave him the appearance of doing something. Of course, he tried some of these mechanisms again in the Depression. It's not clear to me that they were any less effective than much of what FDR did, but they were clearly not effective enough relative to the problem.
A huge government opportunity zone or whatever. Black entrepreneurship in New Orleans. Good grief.
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| | | 52 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 14:26
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Oh yes, and the bigger kicker is the likely hundreds of billions in expenditures to rebuild a city below sea level next to a river that no longer wants to be there.
My fictional children, Zetus, Athena, Epsilon, and Copernicus, all thank you.
Hopefully there is a stonewall of opposition in Congress. More likely, the wall in Congress is like a New Orleans levee built from sand facing a Category 5 hurricane.
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| | | 53 | sarge33rd
ID: 27563010 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 14:36
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Heard an interview with the head of the National HAM Radio Operators Organization, state implicitly, that when he contacted FEMA and offered the assistance of HAMS across the country in establishing some temp communications, his organization was rebuffed. He went onto say, this was the first time inhis memory, that his organization was uteerly absent and left out, of the aftermath and recovery.
As for hearing "reports" but no "established facts"....unless youo were there to witness firsthand, reports is all you'll ever have.
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| | | 54 | sarge33rd
ID: 27563010 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:09
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Tree 48 -- i think we should start by cutting taxes to the rich.
Actually, I agree with you here.
{sarcasm}me too. those folks with those excursions, envoys and the like, need a taxcut if they're to be able to fill those behemoths with gasoline. Poor cant afford cars, so no need to worry about gas. they can still walk for free.{/sarcasm}
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| | | 55 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:11
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FactCheck.org with a handly timeline.
It's subject to all sorts of contextual references, and perhaps even some corrections. But it's useful to be on the same page.
pd
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| | | 56 | Texas Flood
ID: 326462912 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:19
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Sarge, aren't those people who can afford Excursion's & Navigator's and other luxury cars indirectly paying your salary or do you refuse to take commissions on such vehicles?
Mabye you need to open a Liberal only car Lot. You could sell recycled Pinto's, Mavricks, Comets and my all time favorite the AMC Pacers;)>
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| | | 57 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:23
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Comets weren't economy cars.
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| | | 58 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:31
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PD -- good timeline. But even now, federal and state officials alike seem unaware of the full extent of the unfolding disaster.
FEMA's coordinator William Lokey says of the still-rising water:
FEMA's Bill Lokey: In the metropolitan area in general, in the huge majority of areas, it's not rising at all. It's the same or it may be lowering slightly. In some parts of New Orleans, because of the 17th Street breach, it may be rising and that seemed to be the case in parts of downtown.
I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is filling up like a bowl. That's just not happening.
Koppel ran this quote last night, right before the President's speech, with the attribution given. At the end of his show, he corrected the attribution, claiming that it was Dave Vitter who said it.
Anyone know the truth?
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| | | 59 | Tree Sustainer
ID: 599393013 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:38
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Tree 48 -- i think we should start by cutting taxes to the rich.
Actually, I agree with you here.
figures. why don't we completely stop taxing the rich. in fact, let's start giving them money.
if you increase taxes by 1 percent for every person who falls into the upper tax bracket, we'd most likely have a TON of surplus, not this rediculous deficit that Bush, and all the fools who felt he was better for this country, have gotten us into.
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| | | 60 | sarge33rd
ID: 27563010 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:45
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TF, sell a new Excursion, and you too can make $75. I hate those folks, no they most certainly do not pay. (Most appliance salesmen make more for selling a refrigator at $800, than a car salesman makes for selling a $40,000 car.)
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| | | 61 | Texas Flood
ID: 326462912 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:46
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Some were, some weren't. You could get the high preformance 289 4bbl version in the Comet "Cyclone" or you could get a 6 cyl, manual shift "Caliente" or "Custom" IIRC. The real killer was the A/FX 427 big block which as also available in the "Cyclone". This is an extremely rare bird and very valuable.
I'm not sure if the larger head 351 "Cleveland" was ever used in the Comet chassis. I think the 351 was developed after the Comet disappeared. I know they put quite a few of them in Mustangs. I have a friend that owns one:).
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| | | 62 | Madman
ID: 43410119 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:48
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Tree 59 -- WTF are you talking about?
To make it 100% clear ... tax breaks, enterprise zones, quota-like minority entrepreneurship programs, etc., are NOT, in my opinion, cost-effective ways of actually accomplishing rebuilding.
Firstly, they are directly distortionary in arbitrary ways (although not as bad, perhaps, as some other programs could be). Secondly, they rely on the after-hurricane distribution of capital when what you are after is a restoration of wealth destroyed by the hurricane. Thirdly, and perhaps most critically, studies simply haven't found a large enough stimulatory effect of these sorts of incentives. Fourth, even if the stimulatory effect exists, the long-run fundamentals are not necessarily changed ... once the breaks disappear, the businesses can too.
If we are going to rebuild New Orleans, then the feds should help rebuild the implicit assets of the city ... its infrastructure. Secondarily, they have to do *something* to address the wealth shock experienced by residents.
Personally, however, I would say "screw" the rebuilding. Put enough into infrastructure to help the historical areas. Give everyone else increased checks directly and let them decide where to live. Also cut-off flood insurance subsidies coupled with direct cash compensation for the implied loss of property as a result of the decision to terminate the flood insurance program.
One of Hoover's biggest failures after the '27 flood was to rely on the post-event distribution of wealth and presume that it would be sufficient to naturally overcome the massive wealth shocks experienced along the Mississippi. Hoover was wrong, although people didn't care too much, since it was mostly black sharecroppers and out-of-power whites that got fubar'd. Bush is headed down this path (although he does seem to ALSO want to spend billions of direct dollars).
Do I have to spell everything out longhand around here?
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| | | 63 | Razor
ID: 36241218 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:57
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I don't know where I stand on the idea of rebuilding New Orleans. Witness our rebuilding efforts in Iraq and how corrupt and ineffecient they appear to be, and my stomach turns over a couple of times at the prospect of rebuilding a city "bigger and better" that is already prone to natural disaster. On the other hand, I am in favor of helping the hundreds of thousands of displaced Americans. I may be more eager to rebuild if I thought the government could pull this massive operation off without a massive amount of inefficiency. Then add in the fact that this is going to turn really political really quickly. Four years later, and Ground Zero has made little progress towards much of anything. These are tough times, and I commend Bush's supposed commitment to rebuilding these people's lives (whether it's in New Orleans or elsewhere), but, frankly, I just don't trust the government enough to do the job well.
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| | | 64 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Sep 16, 2005, 15:58
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I owned a '63 Comet that came with a 170ci straight 6. I suppose that might be as close to an economy car as you got in that day, though I doubt the milege was much better than the larger 6s that were more popuular (I think about 250ci - noty familiar enough with Ford engines to know what it was). In any case I don't think there were "economy cars" until almost 10 years later and I don't believe that the Comets of that era fit the bill.
The 170 was a horrible engine with several design flaws, including an intake manifold and valve guides that were not removable or replacable parts. Based on that and the awful time I had looking for replacement parts at junkyards, I don't think there were many of those 170s sold.
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| | | 65 | Stuck in the 60s Dude
ID: 274132811 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 08:56
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Whatever expenses the federal govt decides to make, Bush ought to go on national TV and explain to folks the implications of their (presumed) choice to rebuild NO.
First, taxes ought to go up. Bush says govt must cut spending to find the money and that's insane. Raise the damn taxes and tell people why. If there are significant objections, maybe a national referendum is called for.
The feds are great about spending the money but a little lame when explaining where it's coming from.
Don
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| | | 66 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 09:36
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I have no problem with cutting some spending, especially from that absurd transportation bill. But with people like Tom DeLay telling us that the current budget is a model of efficiency (an "ongoing victory" he said) who knows what they'll try to take away.
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| | | 67 | Toral
ID: 10858715 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 09:42
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"Bigger and better" is a senseless goal. Some proportion of those resettled will be happy to stay in their new home. Everything is anecdotal at this point but it might be half or more of those resettled. There's no reason to encourage people to go back who are not so inclined, so they or their descendants can await the next similar disaster and start the whole process above.
Re the marginalized of New Orleans, as Jack Shafer wrote in an article I linked to in the other thread,New Orleans' public schools, which are 93 percent black, have failed their citizens. The state of Louisiana rates 47 percent of New Orleans schools as "Academically Unacceptable" and another 26 percent are under "Academic Warning." About 25 percent of adults have no high-school diploma.
The police inspire so little trust that witnesses often refuse to testify in court. University researchers enlisted the police in an experiment last year, having them fire 700 blank gun rounds in a New Orleans neighborhood one afternoon. Nobody picked up the phone to report the shootings. Little wonder the city's homicide rate stands at 10 times the national average.
This city counts 188,000 occupied dwellings, with about half occupied by renters and half by owners. The housing stock is much older than the national average, with 43 percent built in 1949 or earlier (compared with 22 percent for the United States) and only 11 percent of them built since 1980 (compared with 35 for the United States). As we've observed, many of the flooded homes are modest to Spartan to ramshackle and will have to be demolished if toxic mold or fire don't take them first.
New Orleans puts the "D" into dysfunctional. Only a sadist would insist on resurrecting this concentration of poverty, crime, and deplorable schools. Yet that's what New Orleans' cheerleaders—both natives and beignet-eating tourists—are advocating. They predict that once they drain the water and scrub the city clean, they'll restore New Orleans to its former "glory." Hoping to have better conditions for those who want to return is worthy enough, but there's no reason for gov't to try to inflate the new New Orleans beyond its 'natural' size, which might be about half of what it is now.
Bush by nature promises "bigger and better". I wonder if any American president could resist the temptation to do the same.
Toral
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| | | 68 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 11:39
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What, indeed, is it's "natural" size Toral? And how did you come up with that amount?
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| | | 69 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 11:50
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How about the 'above sea level' part?
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| | | 70 | Perm Dude Dude
ID: 030792616 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 11:59
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Gonna get rid of Venice, too?
Let Toral answer the question.
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| | | 71 | Boldwin
ID: 49626249 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 12:03
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Where is our 'Hall of Fame' for greatest posts ever?I can't wait till the grifters and thugs that run NO get thier hands on the billions that will be poured into the re construction effort.
If you think Katrina was a disaster wait till you see this! - TF Stick that Texas Flood post right in the HOF.
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| | | 72 | Sludge
ID: 14411118 Sat, Sep 17, 2005, 14:45
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What, indeed, is it's "natural" size Toral? And how did you come up with that amount?
The area near the Mississippi River, which is actually the higher part of New Orleans (i.e. where the French Quarter is obviously) may be considered the "natural" area. The area between that and Lake Pontchartrain was swamp land until it was pumped out in the early 1900's, I believe.
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| | | 73 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 25337239 Fri, Oct 21, 2005, 07:20
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An Opportunity for a True Cooperative Movement. A New New Orleans
By Ralph Nader
New Orleans, the largest city devastated by two Hurricanes, lies in ruins. The reconstruction plans are forming and the usual commercial interests are in the forefront to receive large subsidies, federal overpayments and special immunities from having to meet labor, environmental and other normal legal safeguards for the people.
The corporate looting of New Orleans is underway. The charges of corruption, political favoritism and poor delivery of services by corporate contractors for government projects are already being leveled by the media and some alert officials. After all, over $100 billion of taxpayer monies will be flowing to New Orleans and the Gulf area communities in the next several months.
Plans for the new New Orleans by the large corporate developers are not including many poor or low income families in their plans. These developers see a smaller ritzier New Orleans with gentrified neighborhoods and acres of entertainment, gambling and tourist industries. In a phrase, the corporatization of New Orleans' renewal.
A different more cooperative scenario needs attention. Here is a flattened major city in America where a cooperative economy can take hold that puts people first, that allows the return of low-income families back home with dignity, self-determination and opportunity.
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| | | 74 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 2824911 Fri, Oct 21, 2005, 09:39
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The corporate looting of New Orleans is underway. The charges of corruption, political favoritism and poor delivery of services by corporate contractors for government projects are already being leveled by the media and some alert officials.
Associated Press When Hurricane Katrina struck, Ashbritt Inc. was well-positioned to take advantage of the torrent of government dollars that followed. The Pompano Beach, Fla., firm had spent years cultivating its relationship with the federal government, contributing tens of thousands of dollars to the Republican Party and, more recently, hiring a powerful firm to lobby the Army Corps of Engineers on "disaster mitigation."
After Katrina hit, Ashbritt was given the largest award to date -- a deal worth up to $1.1 billion from the Corps for debris removal.
It is a story of government ties that is repeated time and again for the winners of the 10 largest Katrina contracts, according to an Associated Press review. At least four of those contracts are now being reviewed for possible waste and abuse.
All 10 companies are located outside the affected Gulf Coast region, most are politically active and most got the work after a limited bidding process.
"How can the government say it is serious about reconstructing the Gulf Coast and edge out small and minority-owned businesses?" said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., the ranking Democrat on the House Committee on Homeland Security. "The only way to make sure the relief funds reach hurricane victims and damaged areas is to be aggressive about oversight."
The Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Army Corps, which award the bulk of Katrina contracts, say they are committed to handing out contracts based on merit and open competition.
FEMA also has pledged to rebid four contracts worth $100 million each to politically connected firms -- Shaw Group Inc., Bechtel Corp., CH2M Hill Inc. and Fluor Corp. -- that were awarded with little or no competition. Priority will be given to small and minority-owned businesses.
But the winners of even larger Katrina deals -- those valued at $170 million or more -- will not have to rebid or renegotiate. Most of the companies had done previous work for the government, either with earlier hurricanes or in Iraq, and those existing relationships were key to winning new deals.
"This shows the best government contractors don't always get hired, the most politically influential do," said Keith Ashdown, vice president of the watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense. "We need to strive for more competitive bidding."
Some of the deals:
--A $521.4 million contract to Gulf Stream Coach of Nappanee, Ind., for travel trailers to house evacuees. Since 2000, company founder James F. Shea and his family have contributed more than $20,000 to GOP candidates, including President Bush and Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio, chairman of the House Administration Committee.
--A no-bid modification to an existing contract with Landstar Express America Inc. for about $300 million worth of trucking services. Company chairman Jeffrey Crowe recently headed the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, whose political action committee regularly contributes to the GOP.
In a preliminary review, government auditors this week found that the Transportation Department approved payments on the Landstar contract without issuing written orders or otherwise recording them in ways to allow adequate oversight.
--A $236 million rush order with Carnival Cruise Lines for six months of temporary housing. The Miami company or its executives have contributed more than $200,000 each to both the Republican and Democratic parties since 2000.
Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla. [who also gets big kudos from me for his efforts to trim Alaskan pork in favor of reconstruction funds in LA -mith], and Barack Obama, D-Ill., have called for investigations into whether the contract price, which amounts to roughly $1,275 a week per passenger if the three ships are at full capacity, is too high.
Also being reviewed is a $287.5 million FEMA contract for temporary housing with Circle B Enterprises Inc., an Ocilla, Ga.-based company that Thompson says is not properly licensed to build manufactured homes in several states.
Circle B says it is not building the actual homes but has subcontracted the work; Carnival officials have said they don't expect to make a profit from their deal. Officials with Gulf Stream Coach could not be reached for comment.
FEMA and Army Corps officials say their early contract awards went to known companies in the interest of providing fast emergency assistance. They denied political connections were a factor.
The Commerce Department, pledging to boost minority contracts, has created a new information center and Web site at www.rebuildingthegulfcoast.gov to help smaller businesses get details and establish contacts on how to competitively bid.
Still, FEMA and the Army Corps have declined to rebid more than the four construction contracts. "A lot of the contracts that were previously awarded without competition are completed or are beyond the point where it would be economically feasible to re-compete," said Larry Orluskie, spokesman for the Homeland Security Department, which oversees FEMA.
Watchdog groups such as Taxpayers for Common Sense say one contract that should be rebid is Ashbritt's. The company, which did about $56.7 million in initial Katrina work based on an existing contract, won a $500 million deal for debris removal with an option for $500 million in additional work based on an expedited, open-bid process.
Since 2000, company executive Randal Perkins and his wife Saily have given $50,000 to the Republican National Committee, $10,000 to the Florida Senate campaign of Republican Mel Martinez, Bush's former Housing and Urban Development secretary, and thousands more to Florida's GOP, according to the nonpartisan Political Money Line.
Ashbritt earlier this year hired the lobbying firm Barbour Griffith & Rogers, which was founded by Republican Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, and paid the firm $40,000 to lobby the Army Corps and Congress, according to Senate records.
Investigators are examining the contract for possible waste as well as whether Ashbritt had improperly registered with the government previously as a small business, allowing it to get priority for certain kinds of work, according to a congressional staff member who spoke only on condition of anonymity because the review hasn't been made public.
Barbour Griffith & Rogers, which began representing Ashbritt in March, declined to comment; Ashbritt referred media inquiries to the Army Corps.
Doug Garman, a spokesman for the Army Corps, said it selected Ashbritt and three other companies for debris removal -- Ceres Environmental Services, Environmental Chemical and Phillips & Jordan, which have all done prior government work -- out of 22 bids submitted in three days. Typically the bidding period is at least 30 days.
The final four companies were chosen based both on cost and on experience and past performance with the government.
"We strive to have full and open competition and normal contracting procedures wherever and whenever possible," Garman said. "Politics and pressure from the outside played no role in the decision."
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| | | 75 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3415339 Sun, Feb 19, 2006, 13:12
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| | | 76 | Boxman
ID: 33231135 Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 08:12
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Just curious if the left wing drum beat will now change to "Our government doesn't like white people." in the aftermath of what happened in Missouri over the past weekend?
Will NOAA be investigated? Who is the head of NOAA, what did he know, and when did he know it?
At what point exactly did we know that the roofs of those houses and trailer parks failed?
Why did the governor of Missouri not utilize every box fan in every Wal-Mart, Target, or Home Depot in an effort to blow back the winds?
Will Eminem get up in front of a national TV audience and declare that W doesn't like white people?
Will the governor of Missouri rebuild a "Vanilla Missouri"?
Will Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Hillary, and the rest of the A-Team go to these communities and give impassioned speeches about racial inequality and how that was the cause of all this?
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| | | 77 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 251116277 Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 08:32
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Just curious if the left wing drum beat will now change to...
Whoever it is you refer to by "the left wing drum beat", you've come to the wrong place to find your answer. You should probably head over to the Kanye West fan club message forum. I think you'll find they're much closer to your level of understanding of politics and current events.
Right, right, I know, uncle. Never mind your own broad-stroke insults. You're just too smart for me.
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| | | 78 | Tree
ID: 55121318 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 20:42
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GAO finds mismanagement of hurricane aid
WASHINGTON - The government doled out as much as $1.4 billion in bogus assistance to victims of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, getting hoodwinked to pay for season football tickets, a tropical vacation and even a divorce lawyer, congressional investigators have found.
Prison inmates, a supposed victim who used a New Orleans cemetery for a home address, and a person who spent 70 days at a Hawaiian hotel all were able to wrongly get taxpayer help, according to evidence that gives a new black eye to the nation's disaster relief agency.
Federal investigators even informed Congress that one man apparently used FEMA assistance money for a sex change operation.
excellent...
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| | | 79 | Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Wed, Jun 14, 2006, 10:13
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I liked the guy who cleared over $100K by filing under 13 different social security numbers and having all of the aid checks sent to a residence in West Virginia... where he'd apparently been living for a long time, and certainly during all of the 2005 hurricane season.
FEMA obviously had too much to do and not enough hands on deck. Their policy seems to have been err on the side of caution.
They likely envisioned a GAO report where there were accusations that they didn't help out an elderly granny and she later succumbed to cat hair allergies.
Of course, FEMA has now been accused of not doing enough, and also doing too much!
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| | | 80 | sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Wed, Jun 14, 2006, 10:16
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Of course, FEMA has now been accused of not doing enough, and also doing too much!
If by that statement you mean;
Not doing enough of consequence AND doing too much with relief funds while excercising too little oversight....then I would agree 100%.
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| | | 81 | Seattle Zen
ID: 46315247 Mon, Aug 28, 2006, 03:57
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President Bush on his way from Crawford, Tex., to Washington, peering out the window at the wreckage of Hurricane Katrina thousands of feet below.
That image and that of Condi Rice shoe shopping while thousands were stranded will be this administration's legacy.
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| | | 82 | Boldwin
ID: 46651516 Mon, Aug 28, 2006, 04:57
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Oh puhleeze. Condi Rice' responsibility with respect to disaster prevention and relief was what now? Until you brought the issue up I had never even heard of it and I am pretty aware. Doubtful her shoeshopping will be some legacy but hey, it worked beyond all reason while you were demonizing Imelda so what the hey, give it a shot huh?
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| | | 83 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 0731286 Tue, Aug 29, 2006, 11:35
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Boldy, please tell me that's not a left handed defense of the Marcos regime.
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| | | 84 | Perm Dude
ID: 546591611 Mon, Jul 16, 2007, 22:14
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Even Anne Rice is getting out.
Haven't seen any news on this, but this is her house. I've always heard it was a nice house--too bad they don't have any pictures up.
It looks like it is, by far, the most expensive piece of property in N.O. on the market.
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| | | 85 | Perm Dude
ID: 5381919 Sat, Sep 01, 2007, 12:10
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On the two year anniversary of the disaster, some conservatives send a message to those who never got promised aid: Get over it
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| | | 86 | Seattle Zen
ID: 86541617 Sat, Sep 01, 2007, 12:37
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| | | 88 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 15:46
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Cool pictures though i thought they were going to close the park.
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| | | 89 | Boldwin
ID: 910431619 Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 19:36
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I take it everything is hunky-dory now. No mention of Katrina.
It was a tossup between whether the media would drop Katrina FEMA coverage or Sandy FEMA stories first.
Tho for the life of me I can't see what O did better.
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| | | 90 | biliruben
ID: 41431323 Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 06:31
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He put people in charge who respected, not despised, the thing they were supposed to manage. Makes all the difference.
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| | | 91 | biliruben
ID: 28420307 Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 06:33
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Give us our beaches back.
More of the same as PV has been rightly harping on. Where are the true conservatives.
By increasing the value of shoreline property and encouraging rampant development, the trend toward privatizing formerly public space has contributed in no small measure to the damage storms like Hurricane Sandy inflict. Tidal lands that soaked up floodwaters were drained and developed. Jetties, bulkheads and sea walls were erected, hastening erosion. And sand dunes — which block rising waters but also profitable ocean views — were bulldozed.
It didn’t have to be this way. In 1967, Bob Eckhardt, a first-term congressman from Texas, came to Washington determined to do for the nation what he had done for the Texas coastline. As a state legislator, Mr. Eckhardt had passed the nation’s first open beaches law, the Texas Open Beaches Act of 1959, which defined all land below the vegetation line as belonging to the state for use by the people.
Rather than a departure, this bill was a restoration of the ancient right of the public to the foreshore — a right dating from Roman civil law that was incorporated into English common law, transported to the American colonies and finally preserved in the new nation in what came to be known as the Public Trust Doctrine. Sadly, each state interpreted that doctrine differently. While on the West Coast, a strong tradition of public beach access prevailed, along much of the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, and especially along the crowded Northeast corridor, states tended to adopt a very narrow interpretation. Some states maintained that the Public Trust Doctrine covered only the public’s right to fishing and navigation, and still others largely ignored it.
While Mr. Eckhardt’s bill was, in the truest sense, conservative, its effects on the Texas coastline were nothing short of radical. The fences and jetties that beachfront property owners had constructed to restrict public access were dismantled. In some instances, buildings were torn down. Slowly, the beach returned to a more natural state.
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| | | 92 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 11:25
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Follow up to that: No beach is better than the prospect of letting others on the beach.
as a follow up to that they ended up just not renourishing the sand in front of the properties that sued. Which means those who sued got free sand and don't give up there beach to the public...That is subsidy for the rich I don't support.
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| | | 93 | biliruben
ID: 21841115 Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 12:53
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I love that word. Renourishing. I don't know what it means in this context (dumping a shitload of sand?), but I love it anyway.
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| | | 94 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 14:17
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After Kelo, the idea of private property rights has about disappeared. It'll be interesting to see if SCOTUS tries to roll back Kelo with this case.
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