Forum: pol
Page 2793
Subject: American politics "today"


  Posted by: sarge33rd - [99331714] Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 11:48

Katie and I were having a discussion the other day, as to why it is when a politician is asked a "direct question", you never seem to get a "direct answer".

I postulated that the blame lies with television. A 3 hr "town meeting", will garner a 10-second soundbite on the news. This soundbite, may well be all the information too many voters bother to obtain, and thus it defines the candidates entire position. A direct response to virtually any question then, would antagonize too many voters and thus...we get no direct responses.

I began readin Obamas book yesterday, and while he doesnt come out and say as much, IMHO he alludes to the same thing. Gone are the days of Republican and Democrat Sentaors for ex, sitting over a meal and hashing out differences to reach a compromise. Today, its either "for or against", period. Either you're "for" abortion rights (apparently defined politically as meaning you want to terminate every pregnancy out there and do so in as bloody and brutal a fashion as possible) or you're opposed to abortion rights (defined politically as being perfectly willing to hold a gun to the 13 yr old incestual raoe victims head and force her to carry that pregnancy to term and raise the child). The polarization is absurd, and not reflective of the masses at all. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who would advocate either scenario above.

Obama is the first politician I've seen/heard, who openly admits that some of the Republican ideas are good and noble and that so are some of the Democratic ideas. Just as some Democratic ideas are nonsense as are some of the Republicans.

This article, re voter intimidation, demoonstrates just how far afield we've gotten:

Officials probing reports of phone calls allegedly intended to confuse voters


In the Washington, D.C., area, NBC affiliate News4 reported on its Web site that it had received e-mail from a viewer in Virginia who said he received a phone call from so-called volunteers threatening voters with arrest if they cast ballots.

News4 reported: “The viewer's e-mail stated after he had voted, he received a call from an unknown caller who said they knew the voter was registered out of state and would be arrested if they voted today. The viewer's e-mail stated he's been registered to vote in Virginia for the last three years and has the Virginia Voter Registration card to prove it.”

The Webb campaign also said other voters are getting calls telling them their polling location has changed.


When we as a citizenry, see fit to engage in practices such as those alledged in the article, then we have totally lost our moral bearing and I genuinely fear for our national well being.
 
1Boxman
      ID: 49101015
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 13:41
Katie and I were having a discussion the other day, as to why it is when a politician is asked a "direct question", you never seem to get a "direct answer".

Because in the age of the PC Police, an innocent comment can be construed as something else and they've got special interests and political bases to placate.

I agree. WTF is soooo hard about answering a question directly. A simple yes or no followed up with a reason behind a stance.

I postulated that the blame lies with television. A 3 hr "town meeting", will garner a 10-second soundbite on the news.

Agreed. And if that media outlet has a bias or an agenda, the 10-second soundbite you'll hear is of the candidate making an ass out of himself.
 
2Perm Dude
      ID: 121016711
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 13:49
Heh. I don't think this has anything to do with "PC police." You think the flap over John Kerry's poorly delivered "joke" was a PC police action?

I think wingnuts of all stripes are eager to jump on people, which makes it very difficult, as a politician, to actually speak your mind. In the end, this makes it more difficult to find good people to enter public service in this way. Who the hell would want to go through the crap you get in politics?
 
3C1-NRB
      ID: 24954318
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 14:08
Appropriately enough, I caught a minute or two of "Phil of the Future" last night on Disney Channel. (The kids were watching it.)

The sister on the show was running for Principal for the Day against the Vice Principal (It's a kids' show; don't ask). The first question during the debate scene was a "political hot button issue" (school lunch menu or something of that ilk) that the sister answered thus, "The allegations that Mr. Vice Principal has used school funds to furnish his house with a state of the art entertainment center using school funds is unfounded. (Holds up visual aid of big screen TV, sound system, etc.) There is no basis for these allegations and there is absolutley no evidence to support them. I will do my best as Principal of the Day to quash anymore talk of this 'alleged' entertainment system. Next question."

Even kids' shows know how the system works.
 
4walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 17:19
Or how about this twist:

I called up a buddy in Virginia today. He's a busy working guy with 3 kids, so I know he's busy, but...I pretended to be a recording on behalf of Allen asking for his "macaca vote" (totally joking). He hung up on me thinking it was real!

When I called back laughing asking him how he could not know it was a joke based on what I said, he said he had not read or watched anything about the election/candidates (no time; no internet access at work), and had not heard the Allen-macaca story, and had not yet decided who vote for. Yet, he was on his way out to vote.

- walk
 
5boikin
      ID: 59831214
      Wed, Nov 08, 2006, 14:19
interesting story walk, i think it adds to my new belief that today's society is becoming so busy (filled with decsions) that understanding what canidates believe in is too difficult and that in order to simplefy things they need a noncomplicated choice like dem/rep, helping to stregnthen our political diconomy. It would be quite interesting to see how our goverment would run if there was a legit third party getting people elected.
 
6J-Bar
      ID: 14461512
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:28
Just wondering what the democrats "Contract with America" is. Unsure of what their positions are on anything but from what I have heard it may go something like this.

1. Impeach Bush on war crimes.

2. Raise taxes.

3. Pull the troops out of Iraq.

4. Spending cuts (increase all domestic programs and pull troops out of Iraq and cut defense spending and call it a cut.

5. Open borders

6. Repeal the Patriot Act.

7. Increase minimum wage.

8. Unlimited stem cell research and funding (but no spending increases)

9. Authorize more help under the Medicare PDP(but not increase spending)

10. Still not address the SS problems.

I believe that I am pleased with the election results and it will give the Democrats the opportunity to speak. This is a good thing.
 
7Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 49848118
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:45
You forgot mandatory demon summoning classes in kindergarten.
 
8Perm Dude
      ID: 441045916
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:47
And mandatory gay marriage for anyone remaining unmarried upon age 30.
 
9Tree
      ID: 491039916
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:49
And mandatory gay marriage for anyone remaining unmarried upon age 30.

i'm pretty much opposed to that. i'm from the "mandatory anal sex for anyone declaring themselves as a republican."

i also think that forced abortions for all teenage girls in the third trimester is also par for the course.

 
10Perm Dude
      ID: 441045916
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:53
Only abortions for Republican girls tree. Didn't you get the memo? We need to prevent them from breeding us out of business...

And don't forget Social Security benefits for both Venusians and Martians. Even if they have never worked a day on Earth in their lives.
 
11sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 17:56
1. Impeach Bush on war crimes.

Should be done, but wont be. It isnt anything approaching the "focus" that rightwingers woulkd like us to believe it to be.

2. Raise taxes.

Probably true. After the spending rampage of the pasts 6 years, there really isnt much choice now, is there?

3. Pull the troops out of Iraq.

Has needed doing for some time. I dont look for a "Saigon" type mass exodus with choppers under fire while lifting off and people hanging onto the skids. But I do look for the Dems to force the Pres' hand on this issue.

4. Spending cuts (increase all domestic programs and pull troops out of Iraq and cut defense spending and call it a cut.

Which is precisely what it owuld be. A net reduction in spending, would fit any definition of "spending cut".

5. Open borders.

You really havent been paying much attention of late, have you? The Dems position on immigration, isnt all that far from GWBs.

6. Repeal the Patriot Act.

7. Increase minimum wage.


You have a problem with returning to constitutional law? And/or raising starting wages for the first time in how long? (Hasnt been any inflation at all over the past decade and half has there?)

8. Unlimited stem cell research and funding (but no spending increases)

Unlimited? Still fear-mongering even after the can of whoop-ass the voters gave you the other day? Authorize funded stem-cell research...yes.

9. Authorize more help under the Medicare PDP(but not increase spending)

Plenty of room to cut over-all spending, while increasing net spending on taking care of Americans.

10. Still not address the SS problems.

Well, 1 out of ten aint bad right? On this count we agree more than disagree. Two problems with SS as I see it...

1) Srs constitute a POWERFUL voting block

and

2) The only way I know of to bring it under full solvency, cost Bruce Babbitt his candidacy back when he ran for the Dem nomination. Its such a hot potatoe, all it can do is burn a politician, so its get paid lip-service and thats about it.
 
12J-Bar
      ID: 14461512
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 18:17
Exactly what I felt you would say Sarge, my only point was why they did not make it common knowledge like the original "Contract with America". Hmmmmm
 
13katietx
      ID: 91044913
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 18:17
1. Impeach Bush on war crimes.

This wouldn't solve any problems. In fact, I think it would send the wrong message to the Islamic radicals and further divide the American public. Won't happen.

2. Raise taxes.

Well DUH!

3. Pull the troops out of Iraq.

Agree with sarge yeah, yeah...shup.

4. Spending cuts (increase all domestic programs and pull troops out of Iraq and cut defense spending and call it a cut.

To a degree, except for the pork the Dems want to keep. And don't say they don't have any "special" programs, please.

5. Open borders

Its bad enough as is...won't happen in Texas for sure.

6. Repeal the Patriot Act.

Won't happen.

7. Increase minimum wage.

Should happen.

8. Unlimited stem cell research and funding (but no spending increases)

Agree with sarge again! My God...the sky is falling!

9. Authorize more help under the Medicare PDP(but not increase spending)

Needs to happen, but don't think it will without increase in spending.

10. Still not address the SS problems.

Hell no they won't. Seniors aren't vocal enough yet. There needs to be a cap on who recv's based on current income...a mess and nothing will happen.
 
14J-Bar
      ID: 371044917
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 18:55
I think that I was mis-understood. I feel that these are issues important to the new leadership. I didn't say whether or not I felt that they would actually be able to bring it about. So it looks like that was 9 out of 10 Sarge that you agreed with their contract that I made up (which means I was pretty accurate, thanks for the validation). By the way, 10 was a given.
 
15Pancho Villa
      ID: 366352418
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 22:45
J-Bar #6- As long as you're wondering, maybe you should chew on this:

Iraq Corruption Costs Billions

Corruption within the Iraqi government is costing the country billions of dollars, the US official monitoring reconstruction in Iraq has said.
Stuart Bowen told the BBC that Iraq was facing a second insurgency of corruption and mismanagement.

He said Iraqi government corruption could amount to $4bn (£2.1bn) a year, over 10% of the national income, with some money going to the insurgency.

Many government workers also lack the skills to manage funds, Mr Bowen said.

"This money that's stolen doesn't merely enrich criminals," Mr Bowen said.

"(It) frequently goes out to fund criminal militias or insurgents. That means lost lives for US troops."

A clause in a military spending bill signed by President George W Bush three weeks ago will terminate the work of the auditor on 1 October next year.


So, my question is,
"Is that termination a timetable or a benchmark?"

In addition, Democratic congressman Henry Waxman has been neutered in his attempts to have obvious and documented cases of corruption and theft by US contractors properly investigated and prosecuted. With the new Congress, he is a front runner to head the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations. That means it will be a lot harder to keep him from
Following the money.

The administration has harshly criticized the United Nations over hundreds of millions stolen from the Oil-for-Food Program under Saddam. But the successor to Oil-for-Food created under the occupation, called the Development Fund for Iraq, could involve billions of potentially misused dollars. On Jan. 30, the former CPA's own inspector general, Stuart Bowen, concluded that occupation authorities accounted poorly for $8.8 billion in these Iraqi funds. "The CPA did not implement adequate financial controls," Bowen said. U.S. officials argue that it was impossible, in a war environment, to have such controls. Yet now the Bush administration is either ignoring or stalling inquiries into the use of these Iraqi oil funds, according to reports by Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman, and others.

Perhaps you should put

11. Accountability

in your contract, now that you have some information beyond a 30 second Fox News soundbite to work with.
 
16Perm Dude
      ID: 441045916
      Thu, Nov 09, 2006, 22:58
We musn't forget that the Administration stripped out of the program the requirement that the Iraqis contribute some money for their own re-building out of their future oil revenues.

It is an agreement only a former MLB owner would craft.
 
17J-Bar
      ID: 14461512
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 18:10
No 30 second soundbite, just my opinion, given the little information that we had, on the Democrats priorities. But I love the backlash it is kind of laughable and missing the point.
 
18Perm Dude
      ID: 3210241012
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 18:26
You point was?
 
19Pancho Villa
      ID: 366352418
      Fri, Nov 10, 2006, 20:36
I-Bar,
Your opinion wasn't based on information, little or big. It was , by your own admission, based on what you heard.
I can only deduct that what you heard were Republican talking points reduced to 30 second soundbites.

Since you didn't comment on my post #16, it is my opinion that the Republican priority has been to ignore billions of dollars wasted, misappropriated, lost and stolen in Iraq, and that the perpetrators never face justice, punitively or criminally, with your blessing.
 
20Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 374522815
      Sun, Nov 12, 2006, 00:17
Amy Poelher on SNL tonight:
This week in an ironic turnaroud, Iraq brought regime change to the US.
 
21J-Bar
      ID: 14461512
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 09:23
HPV #19
Huh, I was just stating what, from the information available, the Democrats' priorities were in my opinion. I did not address whether they were good, bad or indifferent. If you disagree them by all means state in your words what you feel their priorities are. And by the way fraud and corruption is wrong whether it is done by poor people or big corporations and should be prosecuted, no blessing here.
 
22Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 49848118
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 10:38
J-Bar

I'd love to know exactly what information was applied in formimg your opinion regarding #1.
 
23biliruben
      ID: 535193010
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 13:07
I don't think America would be well-served by a vindictive approach. I do think we need to restore faith in government, by looking deeply into what went wrong.

This also helps me think through something else. I've been wondering how aggressively Democrats should investigate the past six years and what purpose it would serve. If it's simply to score political points, to punish those on the other side of the aisle as much as possible, I don't think the public will accept an aggressive look into how we ended up where we are today. If it appears as partisan bickering to the general public, just more of the same, it won't be useful.

But faith needs to be restored in government and that cannot happen unless people are convinced that government can police itself, that one branch of government has effective oversight - the appropriate checks and balances - over other branches. That will require effective and active oversight, and oversight requires investigation. The investigation should not be vindictive nor have preconceived ideas about what it will find, that will serve little purpose in the long-run. The point needs to be to restore faith in government by taking a fair, comprehensive look back to identify problems, and then taking the steps needed to make sure that it cannot happen so easily again.

I don't mean that those who broke the law should face no consequences, not at all, only that the first goal needs to be to reestablish a conversation with the public that serves to rebuild what has been lost.
 
24bibA
      Sustainer
      ID: 261028117
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 18:10
My inclination is to support the thoughts laid out in post 23. However, what if we were out and out lied to re the reasons given in support of invading Iraq? I am talking about lies beyond the white ones that all pols use, such as cherry picking known suppositions and facts. Just what if the administration's brain trust knew ahead of time that Iraq was not an active supporter of Al-queda, and did not at that time possess any major wmd's, and was no bigger a danger to the west than any other cruel dictatorship?

One would think that even those of us who describe themselves as conservative supporters of Bush would want to know that they were lied to.

One would have to admit that if we were knowingly told outrageous lies, that someone should be held to account for the thousands upon thousands of deaths and serious injuries, and uprooted and wrecked lives, that are a direct result of the US invasion, and policies since.
 
25Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 374522815
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 20:37
what if the administration's brain trust knew ahead of time that Iraq was not an active supporter of Al-queda, and did not at that time possess any major wmd's, and was no bigger a danger to the west than any other cruel dictatorship?

I don't believe the administration explicitly claimed an active organizational alliance between al Qaeda, if thats what you mean.

I'm sure enough the administration believed its own claims that Iraq possessed a signficant stock of WMDs. Most of the world believed it.

I've laid out an extensive case in this forum, not only that Iraq WMDs (even if they did exist) posed no significant threat to American security, but that the Bush regime did not did not believe in the imminant threat they claimed Iraq posed.

If these were less tumultuous times, I might argue that the administration should be held accountable for deliberately misleading us into a an unnecessary, globally harmful, preemptive and unilaterally waged war that has killed and injured tens of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis while fueling Islamist terrorist activity as it intended the opposite and also ineptly tragicly failed its stated objectives of bringing liberty to Iraq and making the Middle East and the World in general a safer place.

But thanks largely to the mistakes, lies and failures of the regime, these are indeed very tough times and a witchhunt will only serve as a distraction while we work to salvage from and reverse what we can of the damage.

Further, who honestly believes we could prove by whatever legal standards apply what the regime believed and what they didn't? They can make a case for why they believed what they did and their defenders will argue they were at worst incompetant, but did not deliberately deceive us.
 
26Pancho Villa
      ID: 366352418
      Mon, Nov 13, 2006, 22:11
I agree that it's a waste of time trying to determine exactly how dishonest the administration was in their deceptive charge into Iraq.

My point in #15 is the obvious obstruction of justice concerning war profiteering, especially as it relates to Custer Battles, a company that everyone, from the Pentagon to the presiding judge, knows is guilty, yet may well walk away scott free, and all other corrupt profiteers are likely to as well. From my 2nd link in #15:

The administration's seemingly detached approach to these cases could have other implications. NEWSWEEK has learned that federal prosecutors plan to indict several U.S. contractors in Iraq on criminal charges but that these could be undercut if the court rules in the Custer Battles case that the CPA was not a U.S. government arm. "If you make the CPA a U.S. entity, you open the door to all sorts of liability claims. But if it's not a U.S. entity, then you can't parade these people through the court," says Jim Mitchell of the CPA inspector general's office. And that could mean Custer Battles and other companies will ultimately answer to no one.
Speaking of activist judges

In a little-noticed decision unsealed on August 18, US District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III overturned a $10 million fraud verdict against Custer Battles LLC, one of the many crony conquistadors who gorged on the vast porkfest known as "Iraqi reconstruction" during the high and palmy days of the Coalition Provisional Authority. Ellis's judgment effectively provides blanket immunity for the many politically-wired gorgers who made off with almost $9 billion in "unaccounted-for" taxpayer money during the CPA's misrule of Iraq from April 2003 to June 2004 - one of the greatest heists in world history.

Why will the mammoth fraudsters go free? Because of the iron illogic behind the decision. Although the CPA was created, funded, staffed and directly controlled by the US government, Ellis declared it was not, in fact, an entity of the US government. Therefore, Custer Battles - and by extension any other accused grafter from the CPA's golden age - cannot be sued under the federal False Claims Act for defrauding the US government.


Here's hoping that Waxman, now with the majority party and a committee chairmanship, can bring some sensibility and accountability through a transparent investigation that has been blocked by the Republican Congress for 3 years.

That's the kind of priority all Americans should applaud.

 
27Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 49848118
      Tue, Nov 14, 2006, 12:09
New Senate Leadership
 
28Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 374522815
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 09:24
Captain Ed Morrissey Monday
The Play The GOP Left In The Locker Room

The Democrats intend on making a show out of a series of reforms in the opening days of their new Congressional majorities. Rather than offer a comprehensive packages of reform initiatives, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will break them out into separate House rules -- which will allow them to dominate the reform agenda for days and weeks(WaPo):
Despite divisions among Democrats over how far to go in revising ethics rules, House leaders plan a major rollout of an ethics reform bill early next year to demonstrate concern about an issue that helped defeat the Republicans in the midterm elections.

But they will do it with a twist: Instead of forwarding one big bill, Democrats will put together an ethics package on the House floor piece by piece, allowing incoming freshmen to take charge of high-profile issues and lengthening the time spent on the debate. The approach will ensure that each proposal -- including banning gifts, meals and travel from lobbyists as well as imposing new controls on the budget deficit -- is debated on its own and receives its own vote. That should garner far more media attention for the bill's components before a final vote on the entire package. ...

The approach may be the first indication of how the Democrats plan to use their ability to control the House agenda as the majority power, setting the terms of debate while lifting the strict rules that Republicans used to curtail dissent.

And Democrats hope to show that they are attentive to issues of corruption that, according to exit polling, proved to be of major concern to voters on Nov. 7. House and Senate GOP leaders pledged early this year to pass major lobbying reforms in the aftermath of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal but never delivered on their promise.
We've talked about Pelosi's ability to shoot herself in the foot, amply demonstrated by her support of John Murtha in the leadership elections and the decision to elevate disgraced former federal judge Alcee Hastings to the chair of the Intelligence committee. However, this plan shows that Pelosi and her fellow Democrats will not get everything wrong in this session. The plan to hold extended debate on these initiatives, one at a time, is nothing short of brilliant -- and it will serve as a constant reminder of the opportunity that the GOP let slip away.

In the days following the revelation of the Jack Abramoff corruption scandals, voters pressed Congress for action on lobbyist influence and corruption. Republicans said they supported reform, but did little to pass legislation to address it. Either they felt that the problem wouldn't find enough resonance with voters, or they really didn't want to end some of the lobbyist perqs that came with being in Congress. Either way, they proved themselves tone-deaf and let a golden moment slip by that would have reinforced their connection to the 1994 "revolution".

The Democrats do not want to let the same opportunity pass, and they have strategized for maximum publicity in the opening weeks. They will assign different components of their bill to freshman Representatives, especially those in conservative districts, as a means to shore up their prospects for re-election in 2008. Disagreement on various initiatives will not slow the overall reform process, and in fact will serve to heighten awareness in the media. Certainly, the Democrats risk exposing some of their anti-reform members, but the overall effect will be to show the Democrats as the party of reform.

The Republicans can watch this spectacle from the sidelines. They should also realize that they had plenty of opportunity to do exactly what Pelosi and Reid have planned, but left that particular play in the locker room. The GOP may have a long time for regrets on that decision.
 
29SeattleZenas Baldwin
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 10:53
Blah blah blah "Handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500". Blah blah blah "Where was the outrage at Barney Frank's brothel?". Blah blah blah "Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic". Blah blah blah "Hillary Clinton and FBI files". Blah blah blah "Bill Clinton murdered Vincent Foster, just look as I shoot this melon, it's obvious." Blah blah blah "This is what you get when you betray the Reagan Revolution." Blah blah blah "I'm retired" Blah blah blah "Bill CLINTON!" Blah blah blah "Tree's a moron." Blah blah blah HILLARY. Blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah Blah blah blah ...

If we all pitch in we can pick up Baldwin's slack.
 
30sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 10:54
roflmfao
 
31walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 11:04
#29 is very fcukin funny!!

- walk
 
32Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 374522815
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 11:09
!
 
33katietx
      ID: 76442923
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 20:23
Another "spitting soda thru my nose moment!"
 
34Tree
      ID: 4010322221
      Wed, Nov 22, 2006, 22:34
beer definitely tastes better down the gullet as opposed to out the nose. ouch.

that was funny. there should have been a few more "tree is a moron" comments though.
 
35Boldwin
      ID: 189102715
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 19:19
Agenda point #11:

Making America safe for 'the children'.

Kinda makes you sleep easy at night with that new guard fox looking over our children as they sleep.
 
36Perm Dude
      ID: 1310282718
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 19:28
ROFL!

Can WND put up any news story without pointing out the political affiliation of everyone involved, several times!

Man--it was like a piece Baldwin himself ("Mr. Non-Political Party") could have written.
 
37Boldwin
      ID: 189102715
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 21:09
You find the subject amusing? The offenses trivial?

The 'depth' of your comments underwhelm.
 
38sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 21:17
*scratching head wondering* Where were all the WND reports on the allegations of sexual impropriety re a REPUBLICAN Governor in CA? Or the REPUBLICAN Congressman? Or the CONSERVATIVE Christian leadership? Did WND make anything near the effort to highlight those political affiliations? IOW Baldy...PD (and others) are laughing at WNDs blind bias and your continued insistence on using them as a "news" source. In WNDs mind, the crimes arent even the story. The fact that the people they reference are Democrats...THAT is their story.
 
39Perm Dude
      ID: 1310282718
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 22:16
Exactly, sarge. The "subject" isn't that there are allegations of child porn. The "subject" of that article is that a Democrat is the person getting charged.

And yes, I LOL when I read such stories that insert the political affiations of people whenever possible, as if it matters. Here, however, it really does matter because that's the "subject": For these people it is a political point to be scored.

 
40Tree
      ID: 2110172721
      Mon, Nov 27, 2006, 22:21
other than being a Democrat, i'm curious as to what exactly his affiliation is on the larger scope of the Democratic party.

not like he was a governor. or a congressman. or a leader of a really big christian organization. HUGE, even.

welcome back Baldwin. your comic timing, is, as ever, impeccable.
 
41Boxman
      ID: 46107285
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 07:29
So instead of commenting on a 10 month prison sentence for a child porn offender, the leftists here attack Boldwin because the article mentions the offenders political affiliation?

Which begs the question, are these article hawks such stout champions of bipartisanship when it's a Republican? Hardly.

Isn't party affiliation relevent, given the shift of power in the recent elections?

So when we're discussing all the wonderful things the Democrats will do over the next handful of years, there won't any mention of party affiliation by the MSM? It'll just be a group of human beings working side by side in harmony right?
 
42sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 07:59
Box....its WND that we are discussing. Its WNDs highlighting of the party affiliations, which we are discussing. That affiliation, has nothing to do with the crime, yet WND finds it essential to stress that affiliation, repeatedly.

If WND wants to seriously cover such a story, then cover the story, not the political leanings of the actors.

As for the sentence...I dont know the particulars of the allegations. I dont know the particulars of the evidence. I dont know why, assuming sufficient evidence to convict, a DA would plead that to the level they apparently did. One would almost have to assume, that the evidence wasnt very solid and that the DA feared an acquittal.
 
43Tree
      ID: 1411442914
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 08:58
So instead of commenting on a 10 month prison sentence for a child porn offender, the leftists here attack Boldwin because the article mentions the offenders political affiliation?

because WND made the point of the article not his offenses, but his party affiliation and the part affiliation of everyone else in the article, which is completely irrelevant here.

like, this article here...

i find it morally disgusting that CNNSI failed to mentioned the political affiliations of Bill Parcells, Mike Vanderjagt, Martin Gramatica, and the rest of those bums.

or here, from E online. the political affiliations of Kid Rock and Pamela Anderson are, of course, extremely relevant to this article about their divorce.
 
44Boxman
      ID: 47922511
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 09:13
Aren't the political affiliation's of W/Rush/Coulter/Hannity et al, mentioned ad nauseum whenever there is a story about them?

The convicted in this case was a Democratic activist, not technically a "civilian" like Parcells or Vanderjagt, and add that it was a Democratic judge. It adds to the story.
 
45Tree
      ID: 1411442914
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 09:43
Aren't the political affiliation's of W/Rush/Coulter/Hannity et al, mentioned ad nauseum whenever there is a story about them?

you're kidding right?

because they are in the business of politics maybe?!!?!?!?

based on that article, there is nothing to indicate he is anything other than a run of the mill democrat who happens to support democratic causes.
 
46Perm Dude
      ID: 421055288
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 09:55
Boxman: A "Democratic activist?" In what way, exactly? You merely picked that up from the article and swallowed it whole.

WND makes news, it doesn't report it.
 
47Boxman
      ID: 47922511
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 10:50
WND makes news, it doesn't report it.

Why were (and seeemingly still are) many of you primarily concerned that the political affiliation was brought up instead of the actual prison sentence? It's disturbing spin on your parts.

Put down the partisan missile defense shield for a moment and look at where the legal system is going.
 
48Boxman
      ID: 47922511
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 10:55
WND makes news, it doesn't report it.

Did they also "make" the news about this guy only getting 10 months for kiddie porn?

This leads to a larger point as well and the right, at times, is guilty of this also.

We've got the poli-binders on so tight that we can't look past one of our own getting attacked and it blocks us from the real issue at hand.

I'm not making a personal comparative of myself against you, Sarge or Tree, but when I read the article I was mortified that the man only got 10 months for child porn. You guys read the article and were mortified that they mentioned he is a Democrat.

Why the different reactons?
 
49Perm Dude
      ID: 421055288
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 11:08
Man, you still don't get it.

We are merely reporting that WND is obsessed with political affiliations. We aren't obsessed ourselves in noting their obsession.

I, too, would be concerned about the term if that was the point of the article. It could very well have been the point, in a different article, if the political affiliations of the people were not inserted into the piece. We didn't insert them--WND did. Because their point wasn't that the guy got ten months, but that a Democrat gave another Democrat only ten months.
 
50boikin
      ID: 59831214
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 11:22
poli-binders great term though did you mean poli-blinders. either way boxman as much as they hate to admit it you are right we all tend to look for what we want to see.
 
51Perm Dude
      ID: 421055288
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 11:27
I wouldn't call it blinders--WND obviously intended for the political affiliation to be front and center.

Blinders certainly exist, but this is the opposite of not seeing something clear. This is seeing something (political affiliations, in this case) inserted into the article.
 
52boikin
      ID: 59831214
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 12:35
that maybe true but if an artcle had come out and it had said he was repuplican i am sure sarge would be ranting on and on about how there goes another hypocrtical repuplican. I think we all were our blinders, i even think there is psycholical term for it maybe 'framing', i think saying it does not exist is silly and things would be better served if they addmitted they do it and move on to more constructive arguement.
 
53bibA
      Leader
      ID: 261028117
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 13:34
I think Boxman may have a point here. In perusing the article in question, I notice that although the first six persons commented on are each identified as "Democrats", the author of the piece did not feel it was necessary to paint everyone with such a broad brush. The seventh person commented on in the article, one Ken Bagwell, was not given a party affiliation. So, to assume that everyone involved in the situation is an evil Democrat does not hold water.

It is undoubtedly just coincidence that Mr. Bagwell is the only person quoted who disagrees with the sentance given in the case. He does show that he is a fair and open minded thinker. An examination of his site allows one to discover that American Police are going to enforce the New World Order, that with the acceptance of "illegal aliens" in our society, they will vote in such abundance for Democrats that we will become a one party system, and that Democrats do have a secret plan for America.
 
54Tree
      ID: 1411442914
      Tue, Nov 28, 2006, 13:40
We've got the poli-binders on so tight that we can't look past one of our own getting attacked and it blocks us from the real issue at hand.

I'm not making a personal comparative of myself against you, Sarge or Tree, but when I read the article I was mortified that the man only got 10 months for child porn. You guys read the article and were mortified that they mentioned he is a Democrat.


no, that's not it.

it's that his party affiliation is an urgent issue, at least according to this article.

it's as if because several important and powerful republicans were caught recently in sex scandals, suddenly a random pedophile who happens to be a democrat is HUGE deal.

his party affiliation has ZERO to do with the article, and is completely irrelevant. unless, of course, you're looking to smear democrats as a whole.
 
55Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 49848118
      Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 16:24
The status of American Government today is that I can't help but wonder what makes many of these people think they are qualified to wage our war on terror - and why the rest of ever show any faith in them.

Congressional Quarterly
Forty years ago, Sgt. Silvestre Reyes was a helicopter crew chief flying dangerous combat missions in South Vietnam from the top of a soaring rocky outcrop near the sea called Marble Mountain.

After the war, it turned out that the communist Viet Cong had tunneled into the hill and built a combat hospital right beneath the skids of Reyes’ UH-1 Huey gunship.

Now the five-term Texas Democrat, 62, is facing similar unpleasant surprises about the enemy, this time as the incoming chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

That’s because, like a number of his colleagues and top counterterrorism officials that I’ve interviewed over the past several months, Reyes can’t answer some fundamental questions about the powerful forces arrayed against us in the Middle East.

It begs the question, of course: How can the Intelligence Committee do effective oversight of U.S. spy agencies when its leaders don’t know basics about the battlefield?

To his credit, Reyes, a kindly, thoughtful man who also sits on the Armed Service Committee, does see the undertows drawing the region into chaos.

For example, he knows that the 1,400- year-old split in Islam between Sunnis and Shiites not only fuels the militias and death squads in Iraq, it drives the competition for supremacy across the Middle East between Shiite Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia.

That’s more than two key Republicans on the Intelligence Committee knew when I interviewed them last summer. Rep. Jo Ann Davis, R-Va., and Terry Everett, R-Ala., both back for another term, were flummoxed by such basic questions, as were several top counterterrorism officials at the FBI.

I thought it only right now to pose the same questions to a Democrat, especially one who will take charge of the Intelligence panel come January. The former border patrol agent also sits on the Armed Services Committee.

Reyes stumbled when I asked him a simple question about al Qaeda at the end of a 40-minute interview in his office last week. Members of the Intelligence Committee, mind you, are paid $165,200 a year to know more than basic facts about our foes in the Middle East.

We warmed up with a long discussion about intelligence issues and Iraq. And then we veered into terrorism’s major players.

To me, it’s like asking about Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland: Who’s on what side?

The dialogue went like this:

Al Qaeda is what, I asked, Sunni or Shia?

“Al Qaeda, they have both,” Reyes said. “You’re talking about predominately?”

“Sure,” I said, not knowing what else to say.

“Predominantly — probably Shiite,” he ventured.


He couldn’t have been more wrong.

Al Qaeda is profoundly Sunni. If a Shiite showed up at an al Qaeda club house, they’d slice off his head and use it for a soccer ball.

That’s because the extremist Sunnis who make up a l Qaeda consider all Shiites to be heretics.

Al Qaeda’s Sunni roots account for its very existence. Osama bin Laden and his followers believe the Saudi Royal family besmirched the true faith through their corruption and alliance with the United States, particularly allowing U.S. troops on Saudi soil.

It’s been five years since these Muslim extremists flew hijacked airliners into the World Trade Center.

Is it too much to ask that our intelligence overseers know who they are?

Civil War
And Hezbollah? I asked him. What are they?

“Hezbollah. Uh, Hezbollah...”

He laughed again, shifting in his seat.

“Why do you ask me these questions at five o’clock? Can I answer in Spanish? Do you speak Spanish?”

“Poquito,” I said—a little.

“Poquito?! “ He laughed again.

“Go ahead,” I said, talk to me about Sunnis and Shia in Spanish.

Reyes: “Well, I, uh....”


I apologized for putting him “on the spot a little.” But I reminded him that the people who have killed thousands of Americans on U.S. soil and in the Middle East have been front page news for a long time now.

It’s been 23 years since a Hezbollah suicide bomber killed over 200 U.S. military personnel in Beirut, mostly Marines.

Hezbollah, a creature of Iran, is close to taking over in Lebanon. Reports say they are helping train Iraqi Shiites to kill Sunnis in the spiralling civil war.

“Yeah,” Reyes said, rightly observing, “but . . . it’s not like the Hatfields and the McCoys. It’s a heck of a lot more complex.

“And I agree with you — we ought to expend some effort into understanding them. But speaking only for myself, it’s hard to keep things in perspective and in the categories.”

Reyes is not alone.

The best argument for needing to understand who’s what in the Middle East is probably the mistaken invasion itself, despite the preponderance of expert opinion that it was a terrible idea — including that of Bush’s father and his advisers. On the day in 2003 when Iraqi mobs toppled the statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, Bush was said to be unaware of the possibility that a Sunni-Shia civil war could fill the power vacuum, according to a reliable source with good White House connections.

If President Bush and some of his closest associates, not to mention top counterterrorism officials, have demonstrated their own ignorance about who the players are in the Middle East, why should we expect the leaders of the House Intelligence Committee to get it right?

Trent Lott, the veteran Republican senator from Mississippi, said only last September that “It’s hard for Americans, all of us, including me, to understand what’s wrong with these people.”

“Why do they kill people of other religions because of religion?” wondered Lott, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, after a meeting with Bush.

“Why do they hate the Israelis and despise their right to exist? Why do they hate each other? Why do Sunnis kill Shiites? How do they tell the difference?

“They all look the same to me,” Lott said.

Haunting
The administration’s disinterest in the Arab world has rattled down the chain of command.

Only six people in the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad are fluent in Arabic, according to last week’s report of the Iraq Study Group. Only about two dozen of the embassy’s thousand employees have some familiarity with the language, the report said.

The Iraq Study Group was amazed to find that, despite spending $2 billion on Iraq in 2006, more wasn’t being done to try “to understand the people who fabricate, plant and explode roadside bombs.”

Rare is the military unit with an American soldier who can read a captured document or interrogate a prisoner, my own sources tell me.

It was that way in Vietnam, too, Reyes says, which “haunts us.”

“If you substitute Arabization for Vietnamization, if you substitute . . . our guys going in and taking over a place then leaving it and the bad guys come back in. . . .”

He trails off, despairing.

“I could draw many more analogies.”
 
56Pancho Villa
      ID: 366352418
      Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 19:19
I don't expect Congressman Reyes to know the difference between a Bullnose Z or a Beaded L mold for plantation shutters, which is my business, but I sure as hell expect him to be as informed as I am concerning his business.

How disappointing.
 
57Perm Dude
      ID: 2311481110
      Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 19:23
Very. I'd have hoped that the Dems would have picked Rush Holt to head the committee. Rush would have gotten it right, at least.
 
58Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 374522815
      Sat, Dec 16, 2006, 01:56
 
59Wilmer McLean
      ID: 331122162
      Sat, Dec 16, 2006, 03:32
At least he knows now.

Too bad the question, "Al Qaeda is what, Sunni or Shia?" couldn't have been posed to Pelosi.
 
60CanadianHack
      ID: 40849193
      Sat, Dec 16, 2006, 06:41
Too bad the question, "Al Qaeda is what, Sunni or Shia?" couldn't have been posed to Pelosi.

Or George W Bush
 
61Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Feb 13, 2007, 11:51
 
62Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 16:15
Daily Kos
This seemed like a good time as any to see the state of party switching in the country. Wikipedia has an imperfect list which I edited a bit for accuracy
His list:

Dem -> GOP:
2004
US Rep. Rodney Alexander of Louisiana
Louisiana State Rep. Billy Montgomery
US Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas

2005
Pennsylvania Rep. Michael Diven (defeated in 2006)

2006
Georgia Rep. Mickey Channell
Florida Rep. Will Kendrick
Maryland Sen. John Giannetti (defeated)
Tennessee Sen. Don McLeary (defeated)
Florida Rep. Sheri McInvale (defeated)

2007
Mississippi Sen. James Walley
Louisiana State Treasurer John Kennedy (Sen. Landrieu's likely 2008 foe)
GOP -> Dem:
2005
Bucks County Pennsylvania County Commissioner Andy Warren
Kansas attorney Paul Morrison (now Kansas Attorney General)

2006
Former Reagan Navy Secretary James Webb (now US Senator from Virginia)
Kansas GOP Party Chairman Mark Parkinson (now Kansas Lt. Governor)
Oklahoma Sen. Nancy Riley (was GOP whip)
Nebraska Auditor Kate Witek
Montana State Sen. Sam Kitzenberg
Washington Rep. Rodney Tom (now a state senator)
Connecticut Rep. Diana Urban
NBA star Charles Barkley, running for Alabama governor in 2010

2007
Louisiana State Sen. Walter Boasso
Illinois State Sen. Paul D. Froehlich
New York Assemblyman Mike Spano
Westchester NY District Attorney Janet DiFiore
Missouri Sen. Chris Koster
Hawaii State Sen. Michael Gabbard
Kentucky Rep. Milward Dedman
Kentucky Rep. Melvin B. Henley.
Texas State Rep. Kirk England
Colorado Rep. Debbie Stafford
Kos again:
It's interesting that the GOP's successes remain in the South, and even then, only the Deep South party switchers survived the voters after their party switches. Meanwhile, Democrats are making gains in border states (Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky), as well as other traditionally Republican states (Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Colorado).

And that's not including former Georgia Rep. Bob Barr, who left the GOP for the Libertarian Party, and newly minted independents like ousted Sen. Lincoln Chafee, NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Tennessee State Sen. Michael Williams.

More than that, between 1980 and 2004, Wikipedia lists 15 Republicans switching parties, and some of them are pretty lame (like me being on that list).

On the other hand, during that same time frame, 67 Democrats switched parties to the GOP, including a healthy number of congressmen and senators.

Yet just six Democrats switched to the GOP in 2005 and 2006, and only two of those survived the wrath of the voters. Meanwhile, Democrats are making huge gains in picking up disaffected Republicans.

Times are really a'changing.
 
63Perm Dude
      ID: 1951116
      Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 16:22
On the other hand, during that same time frame, 67 Democrats switched parties to the GOP, including a healthy number of congressmen and senators.

Sure, but in the three years listed, the only national switches were Dem -> GOP. I don't doubt that on the local & state level the Dems have made huge strides as local Republicans realize that their Washington representatives have abandoned the principles they ran on. But we have yet to see party switching on the national stage, except for two current senators (one from each party) now officially Independents.
 
64Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 11:48
Peggy Noonan on Ted kennedy and John McCain.
 
65Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 12:18
party panjandrum

Had to look that one up.

panjandrum

mock name for a pompous personage, 1755, invented by Samuel Foote (1720-77) to test the memory of actor old Macklin (who said he could repeat anything after hearing it once) in a long passage full of nonsense.