Forum: pol
Page 2870
Subject: Baseball Discussion Thread 4

  Posted by: nerveclinic - [105222] Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 05:54


The last one was getting long for my internet cafe connection.

 
1nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 05:55

Sox needs to drop Matt Kemp


He is a prospect with less then 300 ABs he can only be drafted in the prospect draft or picked up once the draft is over.

New managers te rule is that once the regular draft is over you cannot pick up prospects with less then 300 AB's until the prospect draft is over.

 
2Perm Dude
      ID: 5634267
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 09:44 		Dropped him for Sox. I don't know, in looking over Sox' recent emails, if he has much comp access during the day so I went ahead and moved him off the roster.

Prospect draft starts Monday. I'll throw up a new thread later today in case managers want to start earlier.
 
3Perm Dude
      ID: 5634267
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 10:08 		Please check out the prospect list I posted, just to make sure I didn't make any mistakes. Thanks.

Punk, you can feel free to start it off if you want.
 
4Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 12:39 		Joel Zumaya is no longer a prospect for me; I called him up to the bigs.
 
5nerveclinic
      ID: 5334610
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 12:41

I probably won't get a pick off tonight, it's already 9PM here and I'm going out. No access at home so I'm guessing even if everyone is on top of this the draft will stop with me tonight.

 
6biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 13:29 		I'm wicked busy, and I don't plan on picking until Monday, as we decided.

Just don't want anyone behind me to have to keep checking in.
 
7Tree
      ID: 582392917
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 18:14 		hey folks -

i saw the prospect draft has started??

i'm still on vacation, and have none of my materials with me. the earliest i would be making my pick would be sunday night, although monday is more likely...
 
8Perm Dude
      ID: 5634267
      Fri, Apr 06, 2007, 20:40 		No worries, tree. The thing doesn't officially start until Monday. I doubt we'll get more than a couple more picks in this weekend.
 
9Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sat, Apr 07, 2007, 11:38 		126.5!

Wow, it's early, but that has to be a record.
 
10Tree
      ID: 582392917
      Sat, Apr 07, 2007, 11:58 		SZ - i realize that looking at the top of the standings is not something you normally do since by this point, you're usually mired in about 10th place, where you tend to stay all season.

but yea, no record for you.

last season, MBJ *finished* with 127.5 points.
 
11Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 09:57 		OK, prospect draft has started..

Let's knock this out this week.
 
12Action Figure
      ID: 420372221
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 10:06 		Seattle Zen: Justin Upton and Tim Linecum

Linecum = Lincecum

 
13Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 10:06 		Tree - post 10

Hey, that's somewhat funny, and you didn't even use one "Carl Crawford". That's great, because if, Jah forbid, something happened to Crawford, you would have nothing, always good to work on new material.
 
14Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 10:25 		well, if nothing includes players like Jose Reyes and Albert Pujols, yep, you're right, i got nothing.
 
15nerveclinic
      ID: 33316911
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:21
It's already after 9PM here and no one has drafted yet...i.e. Sox who is up.

I'm thinking I won't get my pick in until tomorrow morning which will be the middle of the night east coast time. (assuming the draft even gets that far)

Of course you can always call me.

Sox your up.


 
16Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:02 		and here we are, waiting for Sox again...
 
17Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 16:33 		Give me a ring.

Number on league page.
 
18Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:05 		even though the draft didn't officially start until today, normally people check in a bit more frequently. it's been more than three days since Punk's pick...
 
19Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:18 		Cause i'm special.
 
20Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:40 		in a short bus kind of way...
 
21Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:50 		Exactly, i've got the 3rd row!
 
22Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 21:59 		Meanwhile, CC has had Stephen Drew on his roster. Is this OK?
 
23Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 22:06 		Nope. Lemme drop him a note.

I've emailed sox a few times but no response. I've got a number for him, a cell phone I think, and I'll call him in the AM.
 
24Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 22:11 		Since Drew was on his active roster, I removed him from CC's roster.

I really wish there was a way to remove all prospects from the WW, but maybe that's a PLUS league suggestion.

pd
 
25nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 03:13
PD I really wish there was a way to remove all prospects from the WW, but maybe that's a PLUS league suggestion.


Or we could have the prospect draft right after the regular draft and there wouldn't be an issue. Just a thought.

 
26Tree
      ID: 46330104
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 06:34 		NC - essentially, we are.

we started the regular draft too late this year to do that, due to my previously announced vacation plans.
 
27Perm Dude
      ID: 29358107
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 10:54 		That's exactly right.

Took Tim Lincecum in the prospect draft. Looked and looked to see if he was on a keeper or roster and didn't see him.
 
28Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 11:28 		Perm

Dude, I've been bragging about Lincecum for 12 months and you've just been ignoring me, I'm hurt.
 
29nerveclinic
      ID: 8339108
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 11:29
PD Zen has only been crowing about Lincecum for the last 2 months.

Maybe his name was spelled incorrectly but he's Zen's prospect.

I think AF had pointed out in post 12 of this thread his name was spelled wrong on the prospect thread.

 
30nerveclinic
      ID: 8339108
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 11:31
I'm going to the gym and then grabbing my draft list. Hopefully we make enough progress for me to leave a cue with PD before I call it a night.

if not you have my cell phone number and long distance pin.

 
31Perm Dude
      ID: 29358107
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 11:35 		Sorry, Zen. I tend to tune out your Species-like crowing.

Will (re)pick in a moment.
 
32biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 11:57 		Kemp's a Dodger, not that that probably confused anyone.

Wiggs - you out there?
 
33nerveclinic
      ID: 563201012
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 14:24
So it's been a few hours, I come back and we haven't gotten any further.

I really don't want to leave this long a cue.

I can either pick tomorrow or someone can call me, I have a cheat sheet.

Remember to use the instructions AF sent because one digit was wrong in the original instructions.

 
34nerveclinic
      ID: 563201012
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 14:41 		Let the injuries begin after little more then a week of baseball.

My Ace starter Chris carpenter is DL and now it looks like through April.

Also Ramon Hernandez.

Anyone else hurting?

 
35Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 15:43 		man. i can't believe Philip Hughes lasted all the way to the 6th pick. i figured he'd go 1 or 2, and i started harboring fantasies he'd end up with me...

SZ - you've got some serious firepower there on the mound in your minors. great snag.
 
36biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 15:45 		Yeah. I had assumed he was gone, and am glad I did, as I would have been pissed losing him with one pick to go.
 
37Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 15:46 		Isn't she married to Tony Parker?
 
38biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 15:47 		She must have been desperate.
 
39Perm Dude
      ID: 29358107
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 16:15 		I've got to get away from the comp for a couple of hours. I see CC took Garza too--can someone ask him to re-pick, since he's already taken?

Thanks,
 
40Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 16:18 		bili - that's a great pick too. i was looking at him...
 
41Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 16:21 		Thanks, Tree. Elated that Hughes lasted so long. Hoping that he follows the same career path as Scott Kazmir but rather than getting shipped from the Big Apple to Tampa, he gets shipped to Minnesota! We'll give ya Sidney Ponson.
 
42Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 16:46 		I had Hughes #1 and I pretty well never pick SPs as prospects.

I take it I'm waiting for CC to repick?

Toral
 
43biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 16:50 		It looks that way.

CC - Garza's on someone's roster already. You have to repick.

Any contact info for CC?
 
44Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 17:14 		i emailed CC through Yahoo an hour ago..no response...
 
45coldwater coyotes
      SuperDude
      ID: 229272412
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 17:27 		Repicked...Tabata? ok?
 
46Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 17:42 		unbelievable. my four top choices, all taken within the last five picks.

any you, Toral, especially, are on my $hit list for that one.
 
47Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 19:35 		Fukudome was the ONLY name on my list.
 
48Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Tue, Apr 10, 2007, 19:43 		He's only 30 years old. The only other batter who arguable challenges him for best bat in Japan is Tomo Kanemoto but he is on the downside of his carreer so I think I just nailed down the best bat in Japan. He used to be a SS so in the unlikely event he ended up there, even sweeter.
 
49nerveclinic
      ID: 23271023
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 01:37
If someone had called me I could of picked earlier. I slept with the draft sheet under my pillow.

When I saw the draft thread and how many of my picks were gone I knew the tooth fairy didn't come last night.

We must all be looking at the same draft lists.

Although I can't believe Phillip Hughes fell so far.

 
50nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 05:37

CC needs to drop Joakim Soria he is a prospect and we are in the middle of a prospect draft.

 
51Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 10:22 		Likewise with Pancho and Neshek. Come on, guys, how many times are you going to keep banging your head against this brick wall?

BEFORE you pick someone up, look at their career at bats and innings pitched. If they have fewer than 300 ab's or 125 ip's, YOU CAN'T PICK THEM UP.
 
52Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 10:27 		Well, SZ, I have a good excuse. I'm currently in shock looking at my ERA and WHIP.
 
53Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 10:29 		:) Hire some illegals to work on it!
 
54biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 10:31 		Was hoping against hope that Kershaw would fall...
 
55Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 10:52 		:')
 
56Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 16:27 		so, Sox has timed out, right?
 
57Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 18:57 		PD -

Tree is right, Sox has more than timed out. This is the Prospect Draft, not the regular draft, and we have more of a tradition of enforcing the clock with this draft. It's time you picked.
 
58Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:09 		Aye. Let's move on..

Zen - Sept 23. Bengals/Seahawks. I'm going to start looking for tix.

I'm going to Detroit, Seattle and Miami this year.

biliruben - you comin'?
 
59Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:12 		Perfect date, the weather should be great.
 
60biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:21 		Sure. I'll come.

Ickey and Boomer, right?

 
61Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:22 		I'm on it.
 
62Perm Dude
      ID: 39326119
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:05 		Will pick later this evening. Can't find my sheets. If anyone wants to send me a queue, I promise not to peek until after I pick.
 
63Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:08 		Will someone hand this man a sheet? Lol
 
64nerveclinic
      ID: 6371123
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 01:12

Just noticed AF is up. He asked on the league page that someone call him when his turn came up and he left a cell phone number...did anyone get a chance to call?

Of course now it's pretty late there.

Nerve
 
65Perm Dude
      ID: 493271123
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 01:27 		Didn't call him because it seemed too late when I picked. I'll give him a ring in the AM.
 
66Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 02:51 		I'm on it and I have picked

Good night.
 
67nerveclinic
      ID: 15358128
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 11:21
Wigggggssss....oh wiiiggggssssss, where are you?

 
68Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 11:39 		i've emailed him...
 
69biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 12:35 		Muddah.

I've got Zen's picks.
 
70biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 12:36 		I had 3 dodgers targeted for this round. All 3 are gone.
 
71Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 12:57 		Why doesn't anyone ever say they were going to pick the player I drafted?

Am I that bad?

You could at least lie.



 
72biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 14:19 		Pence was on my list, if that makes you feel better, AF!

I won't tell you where on my list.;)
 
73Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 16:02 		Pence was a nice pick. My faith in my ability to predict what the Astros are going to do with their outfielders goes back a long long time. Back to Ward and Hidalgo. So I might have been more reluctant to go there than you. At best they always have too many promising OF so you never know if your guy will ever get a fair shot. At worst I am not sure they are looking at the same players I am...sometimes I think they are general managing from the bizzaro universe.
 
74soxzeitgeist
      ID: 483471215
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:54 		Will be pretty much glued to the CPU and/or TV for the next 12 weeks. The reason I've been AWOL is because I broke my fibula and fractured my hip. That's not outpatient work, and my wife doesn't know enough about biesbol to do anything other than load my players onto the yahoo team page. I also lost my baby, the F650 GS, so there will be no Dragon for me this summer, or ever, if Jenny has her way.

Pictures of an excellent surgical incision from just above the knee to the hip and a wrecked cycle to follow.

I know it's been a giant pain in the @ss for you guys.

Sorry.
 
75Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:57 		Sorry to hear all that Sox. Hope you get up to feeling better soon.
 
76biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 18:04 		Ouch!

That's why I never got a bike. The odds are 99/1 that I would end up exactly the same way or worse. On top of others being idiots on the road, I'm fairly frequently an idiot myself. If I could go 0 to 100 in a nanosecond, I'd do it early and often.

Sorry to hear about the heart-ache, not to mention the leg and hip-aches, Sox. The good news is that bones heal up pretty darn good, usually. Joints and such on the other hand...

Don't sweat us. We complain and whine for a while. Then skip you.
 
77Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 19:03 		Ouch, sox. Get well, soon. That sucks.
 
78Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 19:06 		I was never sure whether my conservative careful side was gonna win out over my thrill-seeking gene.

Those things are too good at suppling organ banks for my liking.
 
80Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 19:08 		There is a thrill-seeking gene in Baldwin?
 
81Tree
      ID: 583101219
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 21:43 		dang sox....

sorry to hear it. here's to a quick, relatively pain-free recovery, and hopefully you'll be back on your bike soon enough.

can't say i'm looking forward to the surgical pics, but the wrecked bike? mangled messes are fun!
 
82coldwater coyotes
      SuperDude
      ID: 229272412
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:25 		Sorry about delay ...I am fishing outside Missoula. Can I send
somebody a list?
 
83 wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:45 		not sure you are still there, but you can send it here.
 
84Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:47 		Sox -

Ouch, dude. I had a cycle for a little less than a year, thankfully I quit on my own and didn't have the decision made for me. Recover quickly, my man.
 
85Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 00:09 		I am gonna take a little time mulling this pick over but I expect to make a pick within the hour in case Nerve is waiting in agony.
 
86nerveclinic
      ID: 83551223
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 01:56
I was waiting but no one called to let me know it was my turn.

Nerve
 
87nerveclinic
      ID: 39345137
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 09:57
I just posted the third round draft order including taking out managers who already have full rosters, can someone please double check the accuracy of my work?

 
88biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:16 		sox is shy his 2nd.
 
89nerveclinic
      ID: 39345137
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:32
Fixed it Bili thanks

 
90Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:49 		Geez I had thought that my the remainder of my list was somewhat obscure and would make it till my next pick, but 3 out of 5 are gone already.
 
91Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 10:59 		Agreed, Toral. I was just sure Votto would be available later. Wasn't everyone here using Rotowire's prospect list before? I coulda sworn that was what was goin on.
 
92Perm Dude
      ID: 1330138
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 11:12 		I used it exclusively last year. But this draft is the toughest prospect draft on RotoGuru--need more information!
 
93nerveclinic
      ID: 8361312
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 14:11
Wasn't everyone here using Rotowire's prospect list before? I coulda sworn that was what was goin on.


I use 3 different lists and supplement in a couple other ways and Rotowire is the last of the three I use.

I'm sure there are others here not using Rotowire because my list has been decimated quickly this year unlike previous years.



 
94Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 14:31 		I still think more than half here were using that for their primary source this time. Not me but I was using that to predict who would be gone when and available when.
 
95Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 14:45 		Maybe you should start using Rotowire or something, because other than Jered Weaver last year, I don't remember you drafting anyone worth a tinker's dam.
 
96Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 14:59 		I've taken plenty of people ranked highly by Rotowire. Felix Pie for example.
 
97biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 15:11 		Pie's mine.

Where you at, PD? Pick, dangit.
 
98Perm Dude
      ID: 1330138
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 15:39 		mmmmm, Pie.

will pic in a minute. Multitasking, as usual....
 
99Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 21:13 		I have a source that compiles the 16 best prospect lists; with links; and also makes a consensus 100. I stumbled on it by accident; you can't Google it; all you have to do is stumble into it, like I did ;) But I don't accept even the consensus 100s. I look at the players and apply my own prospect prejudices. Unfortunately as sabremetrics come to be more widely understood, my prospect prejudices come to be more and more like everyone else's.

Re 94-95: Billy Butler will be a solid ML hitter. Only question is whether he will be able to play a position or be a career DH. I actually drafted him and dropped him in G20, where where is only one Util/DH spot and I thot I could draft someone just as good with the draft pick I gained.

Toral

 
100Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 21:34 		Before Pie was yours, he was mine.
 
101nerveclinic
      ID: 1332143
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:10
Zen to Baldwin Maybe you should start using Rotowire or something, because other than Jered Weaver last year, I don't remember you drafting anyone worth a tinker's dam.

I'm actually the one who originally drafted Jered Weaver. I didn't use rotowire to draft him I read about him in the newspaper in Los Angeles when he was a college senior.

Last year, as this year, I just had too many highly ranked prospects to keep him and Baldwin picked before me in the prospect draft and he picked before me.

Thus proving rotowire isn't the solution. They haven't updated their prospect list since January.

That having been said I am not at all happy with my draft this year because I think the whole league is getting much better at drafting prospects.

 
102nerveclinic
      ID: 1332143
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:21
I have a source that compiles the 16 best prospect lists; with links; and also makes a consensus 100. I stumbled on it by accident

I would be suspicious of a source like this. What are the odds that there are 16 prospect lists that really know what they are talking about?

It's such a specialized field and the ability to carefully scout minor league players it seems to me is such a difficult en devour I would have to guess many of the 16 don't really have the necessary current information.

Of course as you said you are only using it as a resource and then researching further from there.



 
103Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:23 		I stopped subbing to Rotowire this year.

1. Ut has the slowest updates possible; there have been resolved closer situations unreported on Rotowire for 24, 36 hrs;

2. If you are really cheap, you can view the names of the players updated on Rotowire any time, and go elsewhere for backup;

3. Rotoworld is free, faster, and as Tree and others have noted much wittier.

Last Aug when I was supposed to the resub, I bit the bullet and said "No thanks" to rotowire. I still have access to their prospecty lists from other sources.

Toral
 
104nerveclinic
      ID: 1332143
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:26
Toral it's your turn in the draft.
 
105nerveclinic
      ID: 1332143
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:30
PD when the draft is over, haven't you normally set a 24 hour period before any prospects can be picked up who weren't drafted so everyone gets an equal shot?

One request, think of my time zone when you pick the time. I am 8 hours ahead of east coast so I'm out of the loop from 3PM EST until 1AM EST.

I know you can't set the time to accommodate one person but if there's anyway the deadline could end at a time that doesn't fall into that range it would give me a shot.

Nerve

 
106Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:30 		Damn if you ain't right.

Nerve, did you see those big races in Dubai last week in person? I would certainly go there if I lived in Dubai. High steppin' ponies and fancy-lookin' women. Can't beat that.

I'll pick in a few.

Toral
 
107nerveclinic
      ID: 1332143
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 05:52 		Toral Nerve, did you see those big races in Dubai last week in person? I would certainly go there if I lived in Dubai. High steppin' ponies and fancy-lookin' women. Can't beat that.

The big talk post race was all the Ex pat women who could barely keep their breasts in their dresses. Wait you mean there was actually a horse race going on?

I believe for next years race they are planning on having the biggest prize money of any horse racing event in the world. (This place has a real inferiority complex, everything has to be the biggest)

I had a free top notch ticket to go, then 2 days before the race I find out my boss is stopping in town on his way to China and I had to hang with him instead.

On his way back from China this weekend, his connecting flight in UAE took off and then had to make an emergency return to the airport.

He decided he would call his local employee/friend to hang out with for the day. As he was driving into town from the airport he called me all excited at 6:30 AM certain I would be thrilled to hear he's in town.

I had gone to a club the night before, and stayed out until 3AM and not gotten to bed until close to 4 AM. He called again at 9 AM and said are you ready to get together for brunch?

What can I do?

My only consolation was that he had flown China to Bangkok, Bangkok to UAE, and then had his flight to the States turned back, dumped fuel over the ocean and spent 3.5 hours in the air and 1.5 on the runway, therefore he was in even worse shape then me (except he doesn't drink).

Once we detailed what kind of shape we each were in, we made a gentleman's agreement to keep our sunglasses on the rest of the day, even in the restaurant. (Ahh the joys of having a boss who is also a friend)

I've never been happier to see him leave then I was at 3PM yesterday.


 
108Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 06:08 		The big talk post race was all the Ex pat women who could barely keep their breasts in their dresses.

Saw a bit of that on NBC. Basically they scanned the ex-pats, and showed some loose breasts, but suggested they couldn't scan too much of the crowd for fear for finding something they couldn't show. Bit of decadence, what? Also servile praise of the leader/s of Dubai and how much they'd done for the country?

Brings out the Pat Buchanan in me. Is it any surprise that everyone hates America?

Toral
 
109nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 08:26

Toral your response was written just cryptically enough that after reading it 3 times I'm still not sure what exactly you said.

It's early where you are so I assume you aren't drinking yet?

Brings out the Pat Buchanan in me. Is it any surprise that everyone hates America? M

I have no clue what this means.

 
110nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 08:28
Any Baldy sightings lately? I am at an internet cafe and would love to make my pick. Maybe I will just send a 2 pick cue to someone.

Nerve
 
111nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:01

Can I send someone a cue?

 
112 biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:10 		Uh huh.
 
113nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:24

cue sent could you confirm it was received?


 
114biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:29 		uh huh.
 
115nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:33
There was a problem with the first one, now see if you got it...

 
116biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:35 		I only got one.
 
117nerveclinic
      ID: 2318146
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:48
I only got one.

uh huh

because there was a problem with the first one, it didn't go through...if you got any of them they both said the same thing.
 
118biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 09:59 		okidoke then. We're set. I will be around for at least a few hours.
 
119Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sat, Apr 14, 2007, 15:38 		If Barton's preseason was for real I'm really gonna kick myself for believing the magazines' lists instead of my own lying eyes.
 
120nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 08:15
Baldwin drop soria...

He's a prospect, your the second person who's picked him up.

What you don't think there's 13 other managers who have an eye on him?

That's why we have a waiver at the end of the prospect period.

 
121nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 08:16
PD when you get a chance can you give us an indication of the waiver period to pick up prospects post prospect draft?

I guess we won't have to worry about it with Soria, once Baldwin drops him he will be on waivers.

 
122biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 11:06 		Arghh...

Just spent too much time researching Colby Rasmus.

It turns out Nerve DIDN'T pick Harold Ramus in the second.

Needless to say: Good pick, Nerve.

Maybe an edit, though it's so late I doubt anyone else will fall victim. Actually, edit it, so no one misses him in a search if he gets called up down the road (which he won't).
 
123nerveclinic
      ID: 5314159
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 11:20
Sorry about that Bili.

Unfortunately PD will have to edit it, since I use internet cafes the only way I could edit is if I happened to use the same computer twice.


I guess this means you are about to draft so we can get this over with?

Still no word from PD on the post draft waiver.


 
124biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 11:22 		yup
 
125Perm Dude
      ID: 37338159
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 11:41 		I think a waiver cool-off period is a good idea, but since players are obviously in demand already I don't really see the need for a long one.

Let's say 24 hours after the last pick. I don't believe (though I'll check around) that I can put prospect players onto waivers which might make it a little more fair.

Nerve, if you need a particular player, I can pick up someone for you.
 
126Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 11:58 		I will be around for another hour and a half if it gets to me.

I believe I may need a commish ruling when it's my pick.
 
127Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 16:57 		We've just gotta have out prospect draft before the season starts from now on. Having it as we now, under our existing rules, is creating some ridiculous situations.
 
128Tree
      ID: 23191510
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 17:13 		We've just gotta have out prospect draft before the season starts from now on. Having it as we now, under our existing rules, is creating some ridiculous situations.

added some thoughts in this thread...
 
129biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 17:13 		Just to clarify:

16:28 "Guru Thread Time" (GTT=Eastern, right?) tomorrow, all players except those draft in the prospect draft are fair game, right?
 
130Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 17:23 		I think that's correct. Congrats to all who will have computer access at that time on picking the guy I'd have liked to have picked up today.
 
131biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 17:25 		I would guess that 50/50 that player will be waiting for you when you get home, MBJ.

I recall in years past that this was much ado about nothing.
 
132Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 17:33 		Well, yes. Everything associated with fantasy baseball league is much ado about nothing. And yes, there's no one available tomorrow that will make a hill o' beans difference in anyone's season.

So, well, yes.
 
133Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 19:36 		How come no one made any stink about Capps?
 
134Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 19:47 		What sort of "stink" we you looking for? Bili drafted Capps in the regular draft. Many prospect-eligible players got drafted.
 
135Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 19:51 		I guess I really don't get just when a prospect eligible was and wasn't legal to acquire.
 
136Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 19:54 		No one (that I know of) is saying you did anything wrong, B. There's no stink, except for the situation we allowed.
 
137Perm Dude
      ID: 37338159
      Sun, Apr 15, 2007, 21:48 		Unless I pick up and drop every non-drafted prospect-eligible player in the Yahoo database, there doesn't appear to be a way I can run players through waivers. So it looks like a free-for-all when the post-draft period ends.

pd
 
138Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 00:10 		Mind putting Soria back on my roster?
 
139nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 03:48
Baldwin I guess I really don't get just when a prospect eligible was and wasn't legal to acquire.

Are you serious? The rule has been the same for years. Anyone not on someones prospect list, who is in the yahoo database, can be picked up during the regular draft.

After the draft is over, no one who is a prospect, can be picked up until the prospect draft is over. It's always been that way so what "don't you get"?

This is the main reason we changed the prospect draft from the all start break to right after the regular draft. The only reason it wasn't sooner this year is because Tree was on vacation.

In the future, if someone is on vacation, can't they just go to an internet cafe and draft? It's just three picks.



 
140nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 07:32
Man I'm glad I didn't waste my waiver pick on...

Jorge Julio either.

That would really suck to have the number one waiver pick and use it on a chump like Julio that you waive a week later.

Of course if someone in front of me hadn't grabbed him I would have and I wouldn't have a number 2 waiver position right now...8-}

 
141nerveclinic
      ID: 7341612
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 15:04 		Nerve, if you need a particular player, I can pick up someone for you.

check email PD

 
142biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 19:33 		Told ya, mbj... unless pd was supposed to pick him up for nerve (though I'm not sure how that was supposed to work out).
 
143Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 19:38 		I can't believe y'all left that stud for me .

;)
 
144nerveclinic
      ID: 34301713
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 15:52
PD Nerve, if you need a particular player, I can pick up someone for you.

Good start from my new waiver prospect pick-up from yesterday...

Tom Gorzelanny (Pit - SP)

8.1 (IP) Win ERA 1.08 WHIP 0.84

 
145Perm Dude
      ID: 58318178
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 16:05 		It wasn't clear in your message that you wanted him in your active roster or just picked up, so I went ahead and activated him for the game. Glad it worked out for you. For my own sake.
 
146nerveclinic
      ID: 34301713
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 16:27

It wasn't clear in your message that you wanted him in your active roster or just picked up, so I went ahead and activated him for the game. Glad it worked out for you. For my own sake.

It wouldn't of mattered either way, I went and checked the roster to see if I got him and left him activated intentionally. Don't forget when I am looking at my line up here at 10AM it's just 2AM EST and I have hours to set my line up.

Thanks for grabbing him though. I was going to draft him initially but he didn't look hot this spring. Since the start of the season though it's all good. Coming into todays game his line looked like this...

W-L 1-0 ERA 1.50 9 K's in 12 IP 1 BB WHIP 1.00



 
147Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 16:38 		Why everything Nerve does succeeds. His forcing Soria off my active lineup saved me from a horrible inning. 8]
 
148Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 17:12 		Gorzelanny is going to be a good one. there's a reason i picked him up a couple years ago, and why he was involved in at least one trade...
 
149PV in Rawlins, Wyo
      ID: 373171720
      Tue, Apr 17, 2007, 22:24 		I'm headed to Denver to measure a job. If you ever consider stopping in Rawlins, Wyoming, keep driving.
This computer in the lobby can access RotoGuru, but not Yahoo.

Mucho suckamundo.

Wonder if the Rockies are in town?
 
150PV in Rawlins, Wyo
      ID: 373171720
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 08:24 		Dodgers at Rockies tonight.

It will be the first major league baseball game for my kids.
 
151nerveclinic
      ID: 3831187
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 09:04
Dodgers at Rockies tonight.

It will be the first major league baseball game for my kids.

Have fun, that sounds like a great first game to see.

If you are ever in Dubai, we could take them to see camel races, no baseball though.


 
152nerveclinic
      ID: 3831187
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 09:17
Chris Carpenter? Who's Chris Carpenter?

Félix Hernández 18 K's ERA 0.00 WHIP 0.47

Matt Cain 17 K's ERA 1.80 WHIP 0.85

Tom Gorzelanny 11 K's ERA 1.33 WHIP 0.93

 
153Perm Dude
      ID: 1937188
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 10:08 		It sounds like a nice high peak to fall from nerve. Enjoy the fall...
 
154nerveclinic
      ID: 3831187
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 10:27
It sounds like a nice high peak to fall from nerve. Enjoy the fall...

OK they can't keep it up all year, but Felix and Cain are the real deal.

I gave up Billy Wagner for Cain he better not go south on me. I already have Carpenter laying in a bloody heap, there's only so much a man can take till it makes you Crazy.

 
155biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 11:08 		Go Dodgers, PV!
I'm going to see Felix tonight. Yeah! Usually by this time I have seen a handful of ballgames. The kid should soon hopefully be able to go with me.
 
156biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 20:02 		Before Pie was yours, he was mine.

Really? What made you not retain him?
 
157Perm Dude
      ID: 1937188
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 21:30 		Again: Mmmmm. Pie.
 
158Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 22:26 		I'm calling jinx on nerve. Felix leaves in the 1st inning.
 
159Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 02:27 		Whoa! Keep all sharp objects away from Matt Cain and Tom Gorzelanny. Nerve, you've just placed a wicked curse upon them.
 
160nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 02:51
This kind of thing really takes a lot the fun out of fantasy baseball when 2 of your top players go down in the first 2 weeks of the season.

This happened to me 3 years ago when I had 6 top players on the DL for big parts of the season, a couple out for the year. I ended up in 13th place.

Sorry to moan but it's really discouraging 2 weeks in.

I just hope Felix is OK for non fantasy reasons as he's great for the game.

I love the Mariners quote...

The Mariners said the 21-year-old phenom left "for precautionary reasons" and would be re-evaluated Thursday.

Really? ...Precautionary reasons? ...I would have thought he left because... he grimaced, turned away from home plate and immediately signaled for umpire Ed Rapuano to halt the game. The right-hander then motioned for trainer Rick Griffin and manager Mike Hargrove to come out of the Mariners dugout...Hernandez briefly squatted behind the pitching rubber... ...see that's why I thought he was pulled from the game. Now that I know it was just "precautionary" and he probably could have stayed in I feel much better.

Then Hargrove says... his "gut feeling" was his franchise pitcher was going to be OK, but added, "I have nothing to base it on."

Yeah well Mikey, based on grimacing in pain, squatting behind the mound, pain in the elbow, leaving before the game is over... my gut feeling is everything is not going to be OK.

Maybe us fantasy guys are a little more in tune to F%#@-ed up pitcher's elbows.

Nervous in Dubai





 
161nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 02:57

Oh and now I see Howie Kendrick was placed on the DL with a broken finger so I don't have a second baseman.

Anyone want to just shoot me and put me out of my misery?

 
162Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 05:58 		I used to tape up those and keep playing basketball. He'll be back in no time.
 
163PV in Denver
      ID: 39335196
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 08:43 		Great time last night at Coors Field. Field level, row 17, just 1st base side of home. My first major league game was at the LA Coliseum in 1959 before Dodger Stadium even existed. Wonder what a beer cost back then?
 
164biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 14:20 		Nice. You didn't root hard enough for the dodgers, however.
 
165nerveclinic
      ID: 523491914
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 16:52
Geez PV...you look pretty good for your age. I wasn't even born in 59. respect.

 
166biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 17:11 		Nerve - trying to get a good deal on a scalped seat, I didn't even enter until the end of the 1st last night. As we heard the news from the speakers as we were standing in line to enter, we almost turned around and tried to sell our tickets!

Glad we didn't, as the Mariners made a game of it.

Hopefully Felix will be okay.
 
167biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 18:13 		They just interviewed M's Doc.

Felix Flexor-pronator strain. That's great news. Similar to the injury that Putz had in spring training.

He'll rest for 5 days then reavaluate, but this isn't season threatening.
 
168Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 21:57 		Glad we didn't, as the Mariners made a game of it.

And I sure wish I was there with you. I would have come upon a scene where the Twins had scored three runs the in the first, gotten rid of their most serious impediment to victory, and watched my boy Richie hit a three run shot!

And to top if off, I get to cheer my Twins' victory and laugh as that pathetic toad got thrown out at the plate!!!!!
 
169Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Fri, Apr 20, 2007, 22:03 		PV may even be older if not wiser them me. Mind telling me if you have more than 53 years behind you?
 
170Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 23:41 		Mind telling me if you have more than 53 years behind you?

Almost 3 more. But the 15 years I spent in the rock and roll business don't count as adult years.
 
171Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 09:26 		hey, PD -

apparently there is a new function in Yahoo baseball where you can change a setting to be able to view "all-time standings"...

can you hook that up, mr. commish?
 
172Perm Dude
      ID: 1135236
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 09:29 		I don't see it, but I'll poke around.
 
173Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:27 		PV

Well it didn't kill you so it must have made you stronger. 8]
 
174Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:33 		I think what Tree is refering to [anyone can do it] is clicking on managers, and then clicking on anyone's yahoo ID which will show you their manager history and accomplishments over the years in yahoo fantasy sports.
 
175biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:36 		Nope.

Next to "Standings" on the main page is "All Time", which the commish as to "set league history" for it to work.
 
176Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:37 		nope.

right above the standings, in green, it says "Standings".

right next to that it says "All Time".

when you click on that, you get the following message:

This tab will show the results of previous seasons.

Currently this league is not associated with any previous seasons.

If you have played in previous seasons, your League Commissioner can set up the All Time results from Commissioner Tools: Set League History

our leagues goes back on Yahoo to at least 2004. i'm wondering if you can link to those.
 
177biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:39 		Takes about 30 seconds, btw. I just did it for my home league.
 
178Perm Dude
      ID: 1135236
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:42 		Yeah--I see you can associate with as many leagues as managers were in, but I'll just do the Political Forum leagues. Gimme a sec.
 
179Perm Dude
      ID: 1135236
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 14:43 		Done. Yahoo couldn't locate a 2002 league, but the rest are there.
 
180coldwater coyotes
      SuperDude
      ID: 229272412
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 15:20 		Is there a law against picking up a player who is on the DL?
 
181Perm Dude
      ID: 1135236
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 15:26 		Nope. Did that myself with Kerry Wood, then parked him on the DL once he was on the roster.
 
182Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Apr 23, 2007, 19:27 		Phil Hughes will be making his major league debut earlier than expected. A day after getting swept by the Boston Red Sox, the New York Yankees said Monday they plan on having their top pitching prospect start Thursday against Toronto.

Sure hope this is just a cup of coffee. If he's up for good, I'll be overloaded.
 
183Nerveclinic
      ID: 27318241
      Tue, Apr 24, 2007, 11:38

Is there a law against picking up a player who is on the DL?

Nice grab CC, I definitely had my eye on Dotel and was wondering why PV dropped him. I couldn't see using my #2 waiver slot to add a 5th player to my team on the DL though.

 
184Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Tue, Apr 24, 2007, 19:15 		I definitely had my eye on Dotel and was wondering why PV dropped him.

I dropped him because I couldn't afford three pitchers on the DL at the same time(Schmidt and Mussina).
 
185Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Wed, Apr 25, 2007, 19:38 		Is there a law against picking up a player who is on the DL?

I drafted a guy on the DL, now I wish I hadn't.

 
186Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, May 02, 2007, 22:47 		Well, it was against a AAA offense, but Hughes was lights out last night. The baseball fan in me doesn't mind that the ray of Yankee hope went down with a hammy, but the proud owner sure would like to reap some more no-hit performances.
 
187nerveclinic
      ID: 27051103
      Thu, May 03, 2007, 08:15
Zen Well, it was against a AAA offense, but Hughes was lights out last night. The baseball fan in me doesn't mind that the ray of Yankee hope went down with a hammy, but the proud owner sure would like to reap some more no-hit performances.

It's lucky for you this happened before you brought him up...I guess you learned your lesson after Joe Mauer...oh sorry, I didn't mean to bring up bad memories.

 
188Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 14:09 		What a blockbuster trade! We all would have laughed just 6 seeks ago at the thought.

Will this turn out to be the ultimate "sell high, buy low" for Bili or will MBJ be laughing all the way to the bank?
 
189Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 15:11 		yea, i have to say i'm fairly shocked at the deal. i think Kinsler is certainly the real deal, and the trade makes sense for both teams, but i'm not sure i woulda let David Wright go so easily...
 
190Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:25 		With Cabrera, mbj no doubt thought that he had a surplus at one position that needed to be converted into new talent at another. I see the point, but with 2 Util slots would have wanted to hold out for more before letting go of Wright. Kinsler is actually older than Wright.

Still, a manager has to assess the actual deals that can be made, rather than the hypothetical ones he would like to make.

Toral
 
191biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:42 		I'm a bit worried about Wright. Those 100 ABs last year where he did a vanishing act, and the slow start this year do not instill confidence.

But that's probably why MBJ was willing to trade him.

I had an excess top-tier (at least as far as potential) 2nd baseman, and he had an excess 3rd baseman.

Their value is somewhat tied to playing them at their position, instead of utility. Kinsler has more future value rather than current value, given that Texas has so far refused to put him up in the order regularly.

Hopefully Wright will turn it around and help me this year.
 
192biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 17:45 		I initiated, btw, Toral.

Beltre got moved down to 7th in the lineup, which made 3rd base a glaring hole for me.
 
193Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 18:47 		It's prolly better to never sell low and buy high like I did; but I've been worried about Wright since the All-Star break last year. I'm sure he'll be back, but looking back at their basic production numbers from 2005 forward taking into account their relative position scarcity I thought it was a pretty fair exchange. They're basically the same age, Wright's about #5 on my 3B list and Kinsler's about #2 on my 2B list.....

I'd much rather have a close to equally productive 2B and get my UTIL guy in the draft each year.

Maybe I gave up too soon, maybe there is something really wrong with Wright. Dunno. I know I got Wright a few years back when i got out of another player just in the nick of time.
 
194biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 18:52 		Who did I trade Wright to you for?
 
195Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 18:57 		Yeah, looking at some position rankings at roto sites Kinsler seems to be ranked 2nd, and being young helps in a keeper league. It's probably a pretty even trade.

Toral
 
196biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:01 		Ah. F'in Barry Zito. At least he's cursing the Giants now.
 
197Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:07 		Well, David Wright is on a precipice. He has had huge hype, he's young, handsome, New York market, 5 tools - power, speed... Nearly everyone has him in the top 10 this year, maybe top 5 in a keeper league. Yet he has been average since the All-Star break last year. Will he rebound and perform like he did in the first half last year or will he be the Mets' Morgan Ensburg?

I had him in my other keeper league and traded him just before the All-Star break for Matt Holliday, Chad Cordero and a throw away. Thanks to it being such a shallow league, I picked up Ryan Zimmerman who subsequently exploded and actually outperformed Wright in the second half. It was a risky deal considering how well Wright was doing at that point, but I have felt a sense of relief with his poor performance since the trade.
 
198Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:08 		Kinsler's hopefully on a steady 20/20 type guy track, who won't have much BA affect either way. If I can ever convince you knuckle-draggers to convert to OBA, he'd be a plus, if anything.

Wright, when he gets right, we'll be a 30 HR, 15 SB guy who'll help in BA. There are quite a few more 3B than 2B right now and with Cabrera I feel comfortable with getting an OF in the draft tp produce like Wright.

Bili's got more upside in this trade, no doubt.
 
199Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:12 		BTW - I tried to tradr Wright last year at the ASB for a package of older player I felt would help me secure 1st place and was turned down flat.

Bili - I thought Gagne was invovlved in the Wright deal, no? I thought I got Zito and Wright for Gagne. Maybe I'm confusing two different deals.
 
200biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:15 		Er, um. I think I traded you Zambrano for Gagne. Maybe not.

Looking back at 2004 discussion thread, it said something like Baldelli/Zito for Wright. That was the season I was neck and neck with skank, and came up one final-day W short.

I do think I recall trading you back Zito at some point, however.
 
201biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:18 		I don't know if I have more upside. Kinsler already has 9 dingers. You better hope he finishes higher than 20. BA and place in the batting order is the wildcard with him, I think. He would probably make a good #2.
 
202Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:22 		Yeah, you're right on the trades. I forgot about Baldelli and all. Ya'want Zambrano back ;).

Well, if Kinsler current HR pace is indicative of what I can expect out of him. then I robbed you. I think he might slow down a bit though.
 
203biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:24 		Well yeah, but 30 is probable this year, I would guess.

I'd take Gagne.

Zambrano has treated you right. Not sure what's wrong with him this year.
 
204Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:44 		I suspect a trip to the DL for Carlos before too long. Too much Dusty Baker to soon in his career. Might as well join the rest of my team.
 
205Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Tue, May 08, 2007, 19:45 		Speaking of second basemen, Josh Barfield has hit in 9 of his last ten after an atrocious start.
 
206Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Wed, May 09, 2007, 19:13 		Fukudome Next Mega Import
 
207Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Wed, May 09, 2007, 22:17 		May 8 Ken Mandel, of Philadelphia.Phillies.MLB.com, reports Philadelphia Phillies 1B Ryan Howard (quadriceps) will miss the rest of the team's series against the Arizona Diamondbacks and will not return until Friday, May 11, at the earliest. Howard will be examined by a doctor when the team returns to Philadelphia later this week, and if things still aren't better, they will consider placing him on the disabled list.


AP - May 9, 9:11 pm EDT
PHOENIX (AP) -- Ryan Howard hit a pinch-hit grand slam in the seventh inning to lead the Philadelphia Phillies to a 9-3 victory over the Arizona Diamondbacks on Wednesday night.



 
208Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, May 09, 2007, 23:26 		LMAO! That's what you get for trusting the Main Stream MEDIA! Damn hippies.
 
209Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Thu, May 10, 2007, 00:14 		Hey Zen, how's the Daddy thing working out? Sleep much?
 
210Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, May 10, 2007, 01:08 		Yeah, I'm sleeping great. See, I don't have the two kitchens on my chest. Baby sleeps with us, which necessitates a king-sized bed. I sleep through fussing.

Lillie is a very happy and has the strongest grip I've ever experienced. I think I'd be ecstatic if she were my son, right now I'm just curious.
 
211biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Fri, May 11, 2007, 14:16 		Prolly a nice trade for you, Kelso Zen.

Giving up Ks and Ws and potential upside for a known quantity, top-of-line pitcher.
 
212Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Mon, May 14, 2007, 09:16 		It looks like SZ hosed Sox yet again. How many trades have these 2 guys made now? It's starting to look like the Yankees and Kansas City in the 50s. But then his Papelbon trade worked out alright for him after all, so you never can tell.

Toral
 
213Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, May 14, 2007, 09:49 		how is that deal a "hose" Toral?

i think it's pretty solid. Dice-K is gonna strike out a lot of guys for a long time, he'll have a great WHIP for a long time, and as long as he plays for the Sox, he's going to rack up some serious win totals...
 
214Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, May 14, 2007, 12:07 		i've got two shortstops playing some dominating ball right now.

Jose Reyes is untouchable, but i'm willing to let JJ Hardy go for the right price.

keep in mind, i hold him in high regard. this is a kid killing the ball, and one that stands to do so for a long time. he's quite likely a keeper (and on many teams in this league, he's certainly a keeper), and will probably be one for years to come.

add to the fact that he is dominating right now as well - so he's a player for now, and for the future.
 
215Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, May 14, 2007, 21:11 		Hey bili, how's David Wright working out for ya? :)
 
216biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Tue, May 15, 2007, 09:08 		You weren't using the right motivators.

He much prefers my squad. The carrot we use is tons and tons of weeeeeeed!
 
217soxzeitgeist
      ID: 4471520
      Tue, May 15, 2007, 21:11 		RE: 212

how's that "hose" working for you toral?
 
218Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Tue, May 15, 2007, 21:15 		ahhh...Toral's just mad 'cause he doesn't have deepsnapper around to trade with anymore.
 
220Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Tue, May 15, 2007, 22:26 		Comment posted and self-edited out. We'll see if I want to post it tomorrow.

Toral
 
222 Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Tue, May 15, 2007, 22:44 		Now mbj's comment has disappeared....

MBJ, I liked it. Suggest reposting; or send to e-address indicated.

Toral

 
223Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Thu, May 17, 2007, 20:18 		OK, now I'm totally confused. Hanley Ramirez? You start by pulling a real coup and snagging Dice-K for nothing, and add him to Frank Thomas, a great draft pickup, and you essentially snag one of the best pitchers of the game for nothing.

Then you turn around and give Oswalt and Renteria for Hanley Ramirez? I guess if he does hit .340 and steal 50 bases a year....

Anyway if there's a loser in this trade it has to be....me, since I drafted Ramirez in the prospect draft...and eventually dropped him. Why the H would I do that?

He wasn't developing. His 2005 was worse than his 2004. Reports said he had weight, attitude, life-style and work-ethic problems. Having been traded to Florida, I thot he wouldn't hit there.

SBs? In 2005 he stole 26 bases -- and was caught 13 times. That's usually not the profile of a successful MLB base stealer.

I guess some guys just don't get motivated until they make The Show.

Ironically Renteria may have kept Ramirez out of the majors in 2005....
 
224Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Thu, May 17, 2007, 22:15 		Yup, I paid a lot and it might bite me in the ass, but I figure Hanley is going to be a top ten player soon. Lots of steals, high average, lots of runs and someday many homers. I needed steals and figured to trade Renteria high.

I'd like to thank Mr. Oswalt for his service to the team. Though short, he was great, but as he is finding out this year - and tonight - it's tough to get wins as a starter for Houston. I was quite the proud papa tonight watching Lincecum face Oswalt. Little Timmy gave me the confidence to trade Matsusaka-san. I loved the feeling of knowing I got Dice-K via the prospect draft but lost sleep at night that he would have loss of control implosions.

I realize that I am counting on Richie Sexson to pull his head out and perform like he can soon and I hate that idea. Steals are hard to come by, you have to pay for them. I paid.
 
225Tree
      ID: 34101915
      Sat, May 19, 2007, 16:27 		i thought it was a brilliant trade by SZ. Ramirez will easily be the second best SS in baseball for the next 10 years, behind Jose Reyes.
 
226biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, May 25, 2007, 22:45 		Sent out a few emails about possible trades. Check your email, if you don't regularly.

If you have a trade you think would help me, initiate!
 
227biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Tue, Jun 05, 2007, 19:46 		Baseball personal:

Big Bat seeks Ss and Ws -

Me: Over-represented by young, very high-upside keeper level corner infielders, talanted prospects and draft picks to use, if necessary. I'm thinking I could maybe part with Adrian Gonzalez or Ryan Braun, but depends on the quality you have to bring to the table. (No, Prince isn't available).

You: A manager with a keeper-level closer with good ratios and a non-keeper starter with Ks and high potential for Ws, or perhaps a lesser closer.

Let's get together and make some sweet, sweet trade love.

No indecent photos, please!
 
228Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Tue, Jun 05, 2007, 22:11 		I'll be in Hawaii from 6/7-6/15, and immediately upon my return, after a redeye flight, have to drive to Denver for a two day install.

So if anyone sees a hurt or benched player remain in my starting lineup, it doesn't mean I've given up, although the thought has crossed my mind.
 
229Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Jun 06, 2007, 15:52 		Trade details:

I trade:

Curt Schilling
Takashi Saito
2008 3rd Round Draft Pick


Bili trades:

Adrian Gonzalez
Fernando Rodney
2008 1st Round Draft Pick
 
230biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Wed, Jun 06, 2007, 15:57 		True dat.

Get well soon, Saito.
 
231Tree
      ID: 16510618
      Wed, Jun 06, 2007, 22:58 		shopping JJ Hardy. interested in a solid closer...also willing to part with a 3B....
 
232soxzeitgeist
      ID: 43559716
      Thu, Jun 07, 2007, 18:01 		The offer has been sent, tree. (Just so noone thinks that i'm only
colluding with zen).
 
233Tree, out of town
      ID: 2354580
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 01:46 		the deal made includes my 5th for his 4th...

will post in the transactions thread once i get home...
 
234Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 19:04 		Now's the time to make your move. I've got four guys hurt, yet no one on the DL. Out of my four starts this weekend, I get three good ones and one average, yet get only one win.

Coming back down to Earth? Market correction? Just a blip on my way to complete dominance of the Universe?
 
235biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Mon, Jun 25, 2007, 23:29 		I'm trying, though my injuries and lack of Ws are not much better. It feels like I had 10 straight starters blow up last week.
 
236nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jun 27, 2007, 17:03

Well Coldwater made an extremely intelligent and savvy trade offer and I took it.

Nathan for Wells

He's buying wells who was a top 35? draft pick in most leagues at a low point that is not likely to last. I'm getting one of the top rated closers who doesn't seem to get enough chances to close with the twins.

He gets a 28 year old I get 32.

I think he is clearly getting the better end of this deal.

But mired in 10th place, and a grand total of 4 saves, I didn't have a lot to lose. I see Nathan as a keeper (Obviously Wells would have been) and most of my prospects are OF. I learned my lesson this year not keeping Wagner.

Basically in a season that has gone to hell with most of my top picks clearly under performing, I decided to shake things up.

It was a smart offer on your part Coldwater.

Nerve

 
237coldwater coyotes
      ID: 544382119
      Wed, Jun 27, 2007, 20:15 		Wells is batting lead off again tonight. Lets hope this shake up will
continue to do the trick for him.
I will miss Nathan...a top 5 closer but I am doing ok with saves.
 
238nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Jul 02, 2007, 03:07
I added Chris Young to my team.

He was on Wiggs keeper prospect keeper list.

He reached 302 AB last Sunday.

I picked him up on the 8th day, Monday at 12:04 AM.

If I wasn't in 10th place I might not of done it, he's batting .241 but he is a top prospect.

Nerve
 
239biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Mon, Jul 02, 2007, 09:17 		Nice thieving!
 
240nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Jul 02, 2007, 11:02
Nice thieving!

Well am in 10th place but at least I am paying attention... 8-}

 
241Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 03, 2007, 22:06 		I am resigning as of right now from the PG Baseball League.

This league has been a great source of enjoyment to me for a long time. I have greatly enjoyed my interactions with managers in this league. I hope that Guru has kept the first online draft threads around -- I think my first online draft here was the most enjoyable time I've ever had (while wearing clothes). I will always remember the discussion around when some member didn't show up, and our discussion to award him Jose Mesa. SZ's comment on what it it is like to arrive home and see that Jose Mesa is on your roster was one of the funniest things I have ever read. Look it up. SZ is one of the funniest and cleverest people I have ever known.

This was my first fantasy league ever. It was somewhat of a surprise when I did well enough to -- WIN! I was actually humble back then.

By the grace of God I have been blessed enough to win 3 out of 5 years. You guyz (including departed members) have given me an incredible amount of enjoyment, fun and fellowhip. I thank the commissioners during my time, nerveclinic and permdude, for their work.

But, to paraphrase Al Gore in 2000, now it's time for me to go. This is not a snap or spur-of-the-moment decision. myboyjack, using his persuasive wiles, talked me out of it once. And I thank you, Jubal, for that.

But now I'm sure.

I will never forget this league or the enjoyment I have had from it.

I am very grateful to the Gurupies who got this league going, and, more important to me, allowed me to stay in it.

May the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, bring you into and keep you in the knowledge of God, and his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord;
and may the blessing of God -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- be amongst you and remain with you forevermore.

Toral
 
242SeattleZen on Vashon
      ID: 224141222
      Tue, Jul 03, 2007, 22:13 		I will certainly miss your presence in the league. You are one of the most informed and most active managers of any league I've been a part of. Your recall of historic minutiae will never be matched.

Every sprinter wants to run against the fastest man they can find so as to push them. I always had an imaginary target on your back and it will be missed.

Thank you for the kind words.
 
243Action Figure
      ID: 420372221
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 03:02 		"I am resigning as of right now from the PG Baseball League."

Are you Mike Hargrove?
 
244Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 03:08 		Are you Mike Hargrove?

Not the Human Rain Delay (how many people around now ever caught his act?) -- but same type of hitter, actually. Bat left, excellent strike zone judgment, line drive hitter, no power to speak of....
Like Mike -- stayed a long time being considered in the top echelons basically on on blarney and BS....

Yeah, I'm a lot like Mike Hargrove.

Take care, AF. And get the courage to make some trades!

Toral
 
245Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 07:00 		You can't play out the season at least?
 
246Tree
      ID: 2662047
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 08:26 		Toral, while i'm sorry to see you leave, because despite our differences, you've been an asset to the league.

HOWEVER - leaving in mid-season puts us in a serious bind. this isn't like MLB where a manager can be replaced.

Yahoo does not afford us the ability to replace a manager in mid-season. if you leave your team adrift now - a team still in contention in 5th place, i might add - you could certainly have a negative effect on the season in regards to how other teams do.

In fact, with your team near the top in several individual categories, you leaving your team now will almost certainly have an effect on how other teams do, and possibly even who wins the championship.

i implore you to finish the season out.
 
247Perm Dude
      ID: 763249
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 10:34 		We should decide what to do--Toral has offered to pass along his signup information so if there is another manager who wants to pinch hit we can probably do it.

Otherwise, I'd just as soon leave the lineup locked the rest of the way.
 
248Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 11:44 		Absent a personal or family crisis, life-changing situation such as marriage, relocation or new employment, I find the immediate resignation morally and ethically repugnant.

Nerveclinic moved to Dubai, and had to resort to using smoky internet cafes at odd hours in order to participate in the draft and, until very recently, the regular season, displaying a high level of committment despite a distinct competitive disadvantage.

While Toral likely views some of us as immoral, Godless heathens, I would suggest he examine his own actions as an example of behavior that is socially abhorent.

Possibly there's more to this issue than has been illuminated publicly, in which case I apologize to Toral for jumping to conclusions. If not, have a nice day anyway.
 
249biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 14:40 		Bummer.
 
250Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 14:48 		If Toral is unable to continue and passes the team off to an active manager in a reasonable amount of time I don't see this as being a big deal.

I will be sorry to see you go Toral. I will make another trade some day but I'm not trading Ichiro.


 
251nerveclinic
      ID: 19626417
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 18:26
May the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, bring you into and keep you in the knowledge of God, and his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord;and may the blessing of God -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- be amongst you and remain with you forevermore.

Um Toral, it's a fantasy baseball league.

I know you tried to make nice in your exit speech, but this is like a Britney Spears moment from my view point. Unless there's something more to the story...like a medical problem, that you are choosing not to share which is certainly your right.

As far as the "mass baptism" of the political baseball league, that's a little over the top. A simple "I'm resigning" would have been enough.

I might have to make a call to the ACLU for that blatant injection of religion into a clearly secular league.

OK enough sarcasm...are you OK, meaning medically...serious question.



 
252Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 18:29 		I don't remember getting any heat when I named my team 'Thy Kingdom Come'.
 
253Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 18:29 		That's a bummer, dude. All things must pass.

PD, I assume you have a Plan A and B for the "vacant team"? tree's very right that an abadonment would seriously affect the standings and the legitmacy of my come back championship this year.
 
254Perm Dude
      ID: 763249
      Wed, Jul 04, 2007, 18:33 		Yeah, I've actually put in a couple of calls to former Political Guru managers to see if they can temp this team. Maybe with only a half-season committment one of these guys will take on the task. Will let you all know, of course.

pd
 
255Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Jul 05, 2007, 07:33 		Baldwin #252

Actually you did, from Toral. He called you out, claiming it was blasphemous or something. You didn't respond to the post but you changed the team name the next day.
 
256Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Thu, Jul 05, 2007, 09:24 		PD - also shot you an email about CC's pick up of Matt Kemp.

Kemp is currently in CC's starting line up, and if he doesn't drop him, perhaps you need to bump him from the line up?
 
257Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Thu, Jul 05, 2007, 23:07 		MITH

Your memory is a lot better than mine then.
 
258Tree
      ID: 5663688
      Sun, Jul 08, 2007, 17:31 		Bili - great pick up there on Pedroia...

i've been eyeballing him all week, and very nearly picked him up this morning. ultimately though, i feel like Adam LaRoche is going to have one heckuva powerful second half of the season, and couldn't bring myself to drop him.

Wiggs - are you even watching your prospects? this is your second prospect in 6 days that you've lost, and both of them would quite likely have been keepers on your squad.
 
259biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Jul 08, 2007, 19:59 		thanks - just stumbled into him while looking for a second basemen to spell weeks, did some math and grabbed him.
 
260Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 20:59 		Thought I'd check this thread to see if there were anything I needed to respond to in it.

I do regret leaving the league in mid-season. I said in a post a few weeks ago that I hoped to break myself from this league habit next year. However this imbroglio served as a very suitable point to make a clean and irreparable breach.

I am having moderate withdrawal symptoms -- but OTOH, the various gathered resentments that I had been accumulating over the last few years over various league members trades and other actions vanished from my heart immediately and completely as soon as I declared my resignation. So it was the right thing to do.

I can't finish the season out because I can't bear to have anything to do with it. The sight of it is an abomination unto the Lord. Things have happened I disagree with strongly, and that's all I will say. (If you wonder how I reconcile this statement with my last paragraph: I no longer bear any resentment.) As it happens I spazzed on Seattle Zen, but of course he was not the problem; we had very serious differences over the years about how the league should be run, but in the end it was just (IMO) a political and personality conflict and 180 degree difference of approach to rules questions --, none of which would have been have been of any importance if the league had been run differently. (And I bear no resentment against those who ran the league.)

All I can say about pv 248 is that I don't understand it at at all. You find something like this "ethically and morally repugnant"? I can only imagine how you would judge something serious. If you meant that, your moral standards are really f****d up. Make a point of trying to learn something about true morality from your daughter.

Nerve 251 Thanx for the interest. I am medically fine. I have been being tested over the last 6 months for a medical heart condition called "left bundle branch block LBBB". Any cardiologists here? This is a condition which is unimportant in itself. Many people are born with it. However, if it is something that develops it could be a sign of heart degeneration. About 7 tests complicated tests have shown no heart degeneration.

So my cardiologist advised me to eat more fatty foods, stop exercising, seek stressful situations, and resume smoking.

No seriously, my cardiologist said, "Behave yourself."
----------------------------------------------
The best I can do for the league in these circumstances is to make my Yahoo! account available to any interim manager you could find. That would require some trust on my part-- because I have another Yahoo! team that this interim person could access with my password. (Course this team is doing crap anyway). But out of respect for this league, I am willing to give my password out to any interim manager you can find.
----------------------------------------------
Suggested solution -- Mr Commissioner, why not ask walk, as a friend, to be interim guy? Perhaps he might even be willing to take over the team. Or MITH, as an interim, who still seems to be interested in league doings? Or ask rockafellaskank, who as a former champion, might take on the interim task, as a favour to the league.

Use your abilities and take some initiative to solve this problem. It might prove to be an exercise that is useful to you.
--------------------------------------------
Feel free to invite me back next year if you all feel so inclined, if the team hasn't been run into the ground.

Toral
 
261biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 21:11 		"However this imbroglio served as a very suitable point to make a clean and irreparable breach."

I missed an imbroglio? I gotta start paying more attention.
 
262Perm Dude
      ID: 126201018
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 21:34 		Use your abilities and take some initiative to solve this problem. It might prove to be an exercise that is useful to you.

Ever the dick, eh? Perhaps your missing of #254 was intentional or you just missed it, but pointed remarks like yours have a prerequisite, IMO, of you actually reading and understand the posts made by the person you are writing about.

I wouldn't be waiting around for an invite, Toral, if I were you.

pd
 
263Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 21:45 		Tx, pd.

Your comment has resolved any doubts and shown me that my instinct to leave this league was 100% right.

Toral
 
264wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 21:48 		i guess i didnt realize the rules on prospects. What is the guidelines for losing a prospect here? You need to remember i was a last minute addition to this league and i dont remember there being a requirement for when i needed ot have players claimed by?
 
265Tree
      ID: 166301020
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 21:56 		Feel free to invite me back next year if you all feel so inclined, if the team hasn't been run into the ground.

i certainly wouldn't want you back. you quit in MID-SEASON, which, barring medical, family, and similar issues, is probably as big a cardinal sin as their can be in fantasy sports, medical, family, and related issues aside.

i have no faith in you as an even remotely responsible owner.

presumably, you're not returning for football either?

I can't finish the season out because I can't bear to have anything to do with it. The sight of it is an abomination unto the Lord.

oh screw it. i need to speak on this.

one of the reasons i REALLY enjoy this league, is because despite the differences we all have on this board, once we're "on the ball field", those differences cease to be. If Baldwin and I could work out a trade we thought would help both our teams, we'd do it.

but, if you feel that some fantasy baseball league is an abomination unto the Lord,, then you really should quit.

and, go seek a mental health professional too...
 
266Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:21 		presumably, you're not returning for football either?

I've signed up, but if you choose to bar me, I will make no protest.

but, if you feel that some fantasy baseball league is an abomination unto the Lord,, then you really should quit.

You need to either get a sense of humour or of metaphor. I used an allusion from baseball literature.
But the beginning of the tough argument part in the most respected article about the minor legue system in the history of baseball, "Revolution", Bill James Abstract 1988 (New York: Ballantine, 1988) at 19, begins: "The minor-league system as it exists today is an abomination in the sight of the Lord." (Bill James AFAIK is an atheist.)

I shouldn't have expected you people to know that.

Toral
 
267Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:27 		And I missed Ichiro's inside-the-parker while I was looking that up so I blame that on you as well, Tree.

Toral
 
268Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:36 		Regarding the problems in this league -- note that wiggs has lost a prospect -- because no-one told him the prospect rules in this league when he joined. The Commissioner did not. Isn't that a little unusual?

Indeed there is no written set of rules for this league -- because PermDude lost them (or claimed to have compiled them and never did) -- and won't admit it.

Toral
 
269Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:38 		All I can say about pv 248 is that I don't understand it at at all.

Try understanding this.
You made a comittment and broke it for no other reason than it made you feel good. You compromised the integrity of the league this year for no other reason than you felt like it.

In the big picture it's not real serious, and maybe morals and ethics were the wrong words; principals is a more apt description of something you apparently lack.
Ironic that you would introduce my daughter into the conversation, since you're on record as believing Mormons to be heretics.
 
270wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:45 		still finding nothing telling me i need to ever claim a prospect. I see a rule about prospect eligible players need less then 300 abs or 125 innings, but it doesn't say you need to pick them up immediately. No league i have ever been in does a prospect lose his label mid season
 
271Tree
      ID: 166301020
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:48 		I've signed up, but if you choose to bar me, I will make no protest.

i wouldn't bar you on my own - that's a league decision. but i will admit to feeling less than comfortable with your commitment level, and i wonder if you'll quit in mid-stream as well.

You need to either get a sense of humour or of metaphor. I used an allusion from baseball literature.

hey, after you went on your Jesus tirade in the post where you quit, how on earth am i suppose to know you weren't being serious.

Regarding the problems in this league -- note that wiggs has lost a prospect -- because no-one told him the prospect rules in this league when he joined. The Commissioner did not. Isn't that a little unusual?

no, not at all. a simple search for posts with "rules" in the subject, would have shown this thread, which contains a link to the rules.

And even so, after losing his first prospect, shouldn't Wiggs have asked what the rules were, if he didn't know?

Indeed there is no written set of rules for this league -- because PermDude lost them (or claimed to have compiled them and never did) -- and won't admit it.

or, they're right here...
 
272Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:50 		1. What "comittment" did I make and break? I can assure you that leaving the league did not make me feel good. It made me feel horrible.

2. principals is a more apt description of something you apparently lack

I had lots of school principals. You probably mean "principles". I disagree with you. My principles told me not to stay and manage the rest of the way. The more I hear from the rest of you, the more I feel that was the right decision.

3. Heretics (in Christian doctrine) can be very sound in understanding of basic moral laws; even Christians who believe Mormons to be heretics believe them to be very sound in morality; (likewise for JWs, except for some huge and really evil things).

Most of them know how to spell when they reach adulthood as well.

Toral
 
273wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:51 		yeah tree that says 2006 rules, i saw that, but welcome to 2007

I didnt realize i lost young because I set my roster a week in advance and I didnt look to see that young was pushed off the screen. There was alot of FA movement going on this past week and I dont always look for who was taken off waivers. As soon as I saw your post today i commented.
 
274wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:53 		as for the rules link you posted, that is the 1st time i have seen those.
 
275Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 22:56 		271 Tree Those rules are of 3/24/05. There was a huge rules revision after that that was never incorporated in those rules.

i wouldn't bar you on my own - that's a league decision. but i will admit to feeling less than comfortable with your commitment level, and i wonder if you'll quit in mid-stream as well.

Tree, in PG football I've spent more time correcting your mistakes in the rules (settings, applications)than you have commissionering.

Toral
 
276Tree
      ID: 166301020
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:11 		Wiggs - I didnt realize i lost young because I set my roster a week in advance and I didnt look to see that young was pushed off the screen.

what about posts 238 to 240 in this thread?

this is a very active league, and keeping up is certainly a challenge, but to compete, one has to do it.

Toral - Those rules are of 3/24/05. There was a huge rules revision after that that was never incorporated in those rules.

nonetheless, they are still rules, and more specifically, cover the exact issue we are discussing regarding prospects.

Toral - Tree, in PG football I've spent more time correcting your mistakes in the rules (settings, applications)than you have commissionering.

then step the f*ck up, you pompous ass, and put your money where your mouth is. i took the job because no one else wanted it, and quite frankly, i've done a damned fine job of it, if i do say so myself.

but, if you can do a better job, by all means, feel free. i will gladly step aside and let your graciousness helm the league.

you definitely open your yap a lot to criticize others about their skills in being a commissioner, but i don't see you volunteering for the job in any of our leagues.
 
277Perm Dude
      ID: 126201018
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:11 		Toral: I realize that there is a temptation to leave on a magnanimous note as well as a temptation to get in the last few insults.

Your sin is that you lack the willpower to resist either temptation. Never have, frankly.

Good luck with that.
 
278wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:16 		239 and 240 are nothing

I apparently missed 238.

I dont even care, if you guys want to steal prospects from the new guy, who never got a copy of the rules that is fine. I doubt i will continue with this league next season anyways.
 
279wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:17 		i would still like to see where those rules are posted with a 2007 on them.
 
280Tree
      ID: 166301020
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:26 		Wiggs - I doubt i will continue with this league next season anyways.

i gotta say i'm stunned to hear that, and honestly, quite pissed off.

when you weren't originally invited in the pre-season, you posted the following:
no invite for me, wow, this surprises me. I have played 2 poli leagues and won them both. Thanks anyways.

the indication was clear that you wanted to be part of this league, and several of us - myself included - fought hard to get you into this league.

and now, i feel like an ass for fighting for your inclusion, with you threatening to quit after just one season.
 
281Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:30 		277 PermDude In general, over time, you are probably pretty close to the truth. But if there is a sin tonight, it is not one of willpower, but of lack of knowledge, of how to respond. When accused of moral turpitude for leaving in mid-season, should I say nothing? Is that any way to deal with friends? Shouldn't I want my friends to know what I actually think when saying, "Goodbye"? How do I defend myself without telling the truth?

268 is not an insult, but the absolute truth as best I understand it. Should I conceal it?

You have a problem 262 with misuse of power for vindictiveness -- the insult, the spiteful comments -- and most tellingly the clear threat to use your power vindictively. These temptations are not unusual (for anyone) (and anyone may fall prey to them) Even the naturally good-hearted, such as yourself.

Here's a suggested deal: I'll pray for God to help you in dealing with your sins, if you'll do the same for me. Can even atheists disagree with that?

You guyz have ruined my enjoyment of the ASG. Luckily, my AL is winning again -- otherwise you'd really see a foul mood.

Toral
 
282wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:35 		well i was mislead from the start I was told I had players on my team that i actually didnt have. Ie Adrian Gonzalez

I was never told the rules about prospects, and instead of getting a simple email saying, hey i know you are knew to our league you might want to check out the fact that you are losing a prospect. obviously i wouldnt let 2 top prospects slip through the cracks if I knew your rule, which were never posted.

I will not be leaving mid season so you dont have to worry about that, and I will be playing football where there are none of these silly prospect rules.

Still havent seen any rules with 2007 on them. I think you should admit that there was a problem here, give me my players back and we can fix this whole problem quickly. Neither guy i lost is going to chance the outcome of this season, but it might help next season
 
283Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:45 		My apologies, Toral.

It's actually been enlightening having been involved in a fantasy sports league with someone so intellectually, morally, ethically and spritually superior.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that basking in the glory of your greatness has been a humbling experience.
 
284Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:48 		Now there's the post I always wanted to see. How come it took so long?

Toral
 
285Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Tue, Jul 10, 2007, 23:51 		How come it took so long?

Started drinking late tonight.

 
286Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 00:01 		Fun stuff.
 
287Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 00:03 		For you, maybe.
 
288biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 00:07 		I wasn't even sure who's prospect Pedroia was. I was just looking to grab someone to back up my weak spots. I was actually a little surprised he was even on the do not touch list, and didn't realize he was so valuable, nor that Wiggs didn't know the rules.

I'll be happy to send him over to you if you want him Wiggs, as I have committed the sin of being only able to keep track of the top surface of this game.

 
289Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 01:12 		Sarcasm
 
290Tree
      ID: 18645115
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 07:06 		well i was mislead from the start I was told I had players on my team that i actually didnt have. Ie Adrian Gonzalez

no one intentionally mislead you. when i started in this league, i had some crappy players and a team that was coming off a 13th place finish or something awful. i finished 10th the next year, 3rd the following, and 2nd this year. that's half the fun of this league. building a contender through trades and drafts!

I was never told the rules about prospects, and instead of getting a simple email saying, hey i know you are knew to our league you might want to check out the fact that you are losing a prospect. obviously i wouldnt let 2 top prospects slip through the cracks if I knew your rule, which were never posted.

by your own admission, you're not paying a lot of attention to the game. in this league, it's damned near impossible to set your line up a week in advance, and then not check in for the rest of the week. yes, something necessitate this, but i'd be willing to bet this isn't the first time this season you've done that.

and again, the rules were clearly posted. stop using "2007! 2007!" as an excuse. that's not an excuse. you could have searched for the term "rules", and at least read the ones with 2006 in the heading, to get an idea of them.

if the rules were THAT important to you, then you would have done just that, or you would have been chiming in all season saying you wanted to see some rules. It wasn't until Toral's drunken religious rant about quitting that you piped up in this matter.

I will not be leaving mid season so you dont have to worry about that, and I will be playing football where there are none of these silly prospect rules.

Still havent seen any rules with 2007 on them. I think you should admit that there was a problem here, give me my players back and we can fix this whole problem quickly. Neither guy i lost is going to chance the outcome of this season, but it might help next season

again, to me, it's not an issue of leaving mid-season. it's an issue that several people fought for your inclusion in this league, and myself personally, i don't like having egg on my face. my gut instinct was that you'd quit after one season based on your recent track record in fantasy sports, but i felt that you would be a good addition to the league because you're a damned good fantasy player.

i'm sorry i appear to have been wrong, and that i should have trusted my gut.
 
291Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 07:08 		Tree, I know the feeling. I fought for you to be added to this league myself.

Toral
 
292Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 07:24 		I should have trusted my gut, and vetoed you or plumped for Pancho Villa. (Although you would have got in the next year anyway).

Still, your influence in the league has been negative from the start. Go back if necessary and see what Seattle Zen had to say to you in your first thread. (I don't have to look it up, I remember it.)

Toral

 
293Tree
      ID: 18645115
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 07:30 		Tree, I know the feeling. I fought for you to be added to this league myself.

I should have trusted my gut, and vetoed you or plumped for Pancho Villa. (Although you would have got in the next year anyway).

yea, whatever. i took an abandoned nearly last place franchise and through trading and drafting, built it into a contender. if that's having a negative impact on the league, so be it.

i remember the thread where i started to propose changes and rules when i first started. and i was put in my place, and after that, stepped back and learned the ways of the league. this is a very different league then any others i'm in, and the level of competition, and spirit of competitors, requires dedication and advance planning. far and away, this is my favorite league to play in, as if you're truly the cancer you're acting like, then this league is better without you, sad to say.

personally speaking, your words and actions over the past week show me that you may very well be the worst owner in this league in recent history.

those words and actions have been extremely derisive. you have disrespected several quality owners in this league, and gotten even more high and mighty than you normally have.

and i still don't see your putting in your application to be commish in any of our leagues.
 
294Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 07:40 		I'm glad you remembered that thread. I didn't think you would.

You did adapt to the league mores, and build a team very skilfully. I salute you for that.

So don't go now and bully a manager like wiggs. Do for him what was done for you and show him the ropes, and defend him when he is screwed around. Don't peddle him BS about how he should have known rules no one told him about.

and i still don't see your putting in your application to be commish in any of our leagues.

Can't commish football because my schedule in August is unknowable.

Now, if you want to start a draft for me for baseball commish in 2008 -- it's a free country.

Toral
 
295wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 08:38 		my piping up has absolutely nothing to do with toral, it has to do with the fact that my players were taken in the past week. I missed the young pick up, but did not miss pedroia.

I set my roster over a week in advance because I was away with limited access for a while. I had a week long retreat with some of the kids that I work with, then I had a 4 day softball tournament the very next day. I knew I would be away and set my roster early. If you notice I missed out on the entire benoit thread in the general board.

I am glad you fought to get me in the league, i do appreciate it. I just really think it is obvious that I wouldnt let both of those guys just go away if I knew they could be taken.
 
296Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 08:40 		So don't go now and bully a manager like wiggs. Do for him what was done for you and show him the ropes, and defend him when he is screwed around. Don't peddle him BS about how he should have known rules no one told him about.

i'm hardly bullying him. i'm telling him that he could have read the rules if he wanted to - any rules - or at least questioned it. instead, he kept quiet, until you went into hellfire-and-brimstone preacher mode.

i'm also telling him how disappointing it is for an owner to quit in such a manner, after just one season.

there is also a different between the rules, and the mores. the mores come with a learning process, as there is *nothing* written about them. the rules, however, are posted - perhaps incomplete, but still there for anyone to see.

Can't commish football because my schedule in August is unknowable.

yea, whatever. my schedule for 20 days from now could also be unknowable. but, i made it knowable, and i'm going to be out of town every weekend in august - some with computer access, some without. unless medical reasons make it unknowable (which, of course, is possible), no one truly knows their schedule for any given time period.

and again, regarding baseball, i've already made my feelings clear on someone who quits mid-season.
 
297wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 08:44 		I am not saying i am definitely out next season, but I think i might have gotten into a league that is to time consuming for me. I don't have the time in the summer to check my prospects on a weekly basis. I have been very active this season and have made the necessary arrangements when I knew I would be away to keep my team competitive. I enjoy the league and I enjoy the players here, that is why i would love to continue with football and the no prospects part of fantasy sports.
 
300Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:20 		Now then...I couldn't go round begging to be taken back, could I? That would go against human pride.

one of the cardinal sins, eh, mr. bible thumper? i've always thought pride was moronic. begging, not the best thing in the world, but a simple mea culpa "i spoke to soon, and regret having announced i would leave. instead, i'd like to persevere on..." would have sufficed, and been plenty enough for me to welcome you back with open arms.

So I was prepared to be asked to return after setting out my thoughts and grievances -- and was amazed to find that my fellow leaguemates would think that I would resign from the league in mid-season on a whim.

it's not an issue of whether it was a whim or not. it's not why you did it, but what you did. like other's pointed out, medical, family, or other similar reasons would have been perfectly acceptable.

but to quit in mid-season because you're no longer enjoying the league - and then to indicate you'd like to come back next season - isn't acceptable. whether it was a heavy or light decision, whether it was on a whim or had forethought, isn't relevant. it's that you quit a long-established keeper league for no other reason than you're not having fun anymore.

...being the only manager to give a decent statement upon my departure.

patently false. it seems like you selectively read posts you wanted to, because the very first line in my response to you leaving was Toral, while i'm sorry to see you leave, because despite our differences, you've been an asset to the league.

if that's not, at the very least, "decent", then i don't know what is.

but the bottom line on your true feelings is this:
The core of the league (biliruben, mbj...God, there is no one else now, is there)

that's disgusting, and completely disrespectful to the other 11 manager in this league. To me, that indicates a total disdain, and a lack of care and concern for the league.

so, good riddance, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.


 
301Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:37 		Tree, I self-edited out my post before I saw your reply. (Although I saved a copy in case anyone really wants to see it...)

I would like to respond to your reply:

"human pride"
one of the cardinal sins, eh, mr. bible thumper?

Indeed, why I apologized for it -- I was not accusing someone else of it. I don't think you will be proud of your "mr. bible thumper" comment after you think it over a bit. Is there supposed to be something hypocritical about a "bible thumper" feeling pride, and confessing it? If so, I don't get it.

but to quit in mid-season because you're no longer enjoying the league - and then to indicate you'd like to come back next season - isn't acceptable. whether it was a heavy or light decision, whether it was on a whim or had forethought, isn't relevant. it's that you quit a long-established keeper league for no other reason than you're not having fun anymore.

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

so, good riddance, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Laff. I'm sure you enjoyed saying that.
Actually I believe you are basically well-meaning and good-intentioned. Don't make much sense as usual, but what's new?...
Anyway I hope if I ever have the occasion to express such a sentiment, I hope it will be in such a relatively innocent spirit, such as yours.

God be with you. (I hope that doesn't bring forth another 3 rants about religion...) Shalom.

Toral

 
302Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:38 		wiggs,
You don't have to check your prospects on a weekly basis. If they are playing in the majors, then it's imperative that you keep track of their playing time so that they don't pass the threshholds of innings pitched or at bats.
Prospects still in the minors are non-applicable.

I want to take this opportunity to echo Baldwin that we expand our benches by at least one spot so it is more realistic to add a prospect during the season when nearing those thresholds rather than losing them because of such a tight roster.
I'm thinking that wiggs likely would have added at least one of those players had there been room.

I would hate to see wiggs drop out at this point, but those threshholds of innings and at bats for prospects are rather easy to find and have been discussed frequently. Neither of those players, long term, will likely have a big effect on your team. Now, my trading Johan Santana and Hanley Ramirez on the other hand....
 
303Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:42 		I understand Wiggs complaint that the rules are not that clear. We have not been diligent this season on voting for the rule changes or posting the rules in total. I think it is very magnanimous of Biliruben to offer Wiggs Pedroia back and I would hope that Nerve would do likewise. I believe Wiggs was caught off guard and it would be a shame for him to feel he lost his prospects unfairly. I also think that as a group we have always been polite to each other. This league asks a lot of its managers, we've had a lot of turn over, let's try to limit that where we can.

Toral, your posts have been rather childish. I was sad to see you leave and disappointed that you would drop your team midseason. That said, just like every Mariner was sad to see Mike Hardgrove leave, I don't think he would be welcomed back into the lockerroom where he insults players and expects to be heard. You either are in or out, you chose "out".
 
304Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:44 		Toral - i won't respond, since it appears you thought better of your original post. no reason to keep a train going that was removed from the tracks.

PV - I want to take this opportunity to echo Baldwin that we expand our benches by at least one spot so it is more realistic to add a prospect during the season when nearing those thresholds rather than losing them because of such a tight roster.

more and more i'm leaning toward this. our benches are VERY tight - and yes, this helps make the league competitive, but i think when you consider we have potentially 5 guys that could make the cut at any given time and lose the prospect status, it might make a lot of sense to add another bench slot.
 
305Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:45 		That said, just like every Mariner was sad to see Mike Hardgrove leave, I don't think he would be welcomed back into the lockerroom where he insults players and expects to be heard. You either are in or out, you chose "out".

Indeed. Irrevocably. And I have never asked back in, have I?

I missed your point.

Toral
 
306Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 10:52 		And I have never asked back in, have I?

well, aside from posts 260 and 294 and i believe your since-deleted post, no.
 
307Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 11:07 		Definitely did not in the deleted post. Explained why I would never return to the league as presently aligned.

260 permits the league to invite me back next year. Subtext: if you need it. That is -- if you desperately need a manager to make an even number of teams etc., feel free to ask me. I'm not stomping out saying "I will never respond to any entreaties from you people ever again!"

294 is a response to your taunts about not wanting to be commish "in any of our leagues": "Now, if you want to start a draft for me for baseball commish in 2008 -- it's a free country."

Look, this league being what it is...if I wanted to continue I'd just start remanaging the team. Or openly ask for reinstatement (would the league really vote "No"?)

I have left and am trying to "have it all out", all on the table -- which now is finished on my part -- before final departure (in the sense of my never having to bother checking this thread again to reply to people etc.). My offer to turn the team (and my Yahoo! password) over to a league-designated successor is still open; and should the league need me in the future for some reason, feel free to call.

Toral
 
308Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 11:08 		Chatter in this thread is what I'm talking about, Toral.
 
309Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 11:12 		I have left and am trying to "have it all out", all on the table -- which now is finished on my part

I mean finished as to new points from me. Feel free to slander me: cowardice, childishness, etc., as you see fit. But if there are any questions you want answered or points you want responded to, etc., basically we're coming close to the end of the time when I will be bothering to check this thread.

Toral
 
310Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 11:17 		I don't see what you're getting at, SZ. I guess 307 summed it up. Definitely not simpering for a return; but not, on my part, stomping out saying "I'll never deal with this league again." If there comes a time the league needs help, (e.g., taking over a team short-term for someone, or something) if I in good conscience can do so considering the way the league is being run, feel free to ask.

Toral
 
311Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 12:39 		SZ 303,308 That said, just like every Mariner was sad to see Mike Hardgrove leave, I don't think he would be welcomed back into the lockerroom where he insults players and expects to be heard. You either are in or out, you chose "out"....Chatter in this thread is what I'm talking about, Toral.

Sorry, I think I'm just now getting what SZ may have been addressing....Once I've left, I shouldn't return here at all, 'insult players',etc. I think I get the drift now.

I came because I felt I ought to appear before my fellow managers, answer their questions and respond to their criticisms. Sometimes that led to further exchanges.

The alternative is to have people being able to say forever, "That cowardly Toral -- he just dropped out in mid-season; never dared show his face here and defend his actions."

I prefer being run out of town on a rail to slinking out of town in the middle of the night.

OK, that's about it for me. One more provocative thing to say, then a last check of this thread in late afternoon, and an e-mail address for further comments:

Sometimes a dramatic event is necessary to shake a dead institution . Witness SZ:
I understand Wiggs complaint that the rules are not that clear. We have not been diligent this season on voting for the rule changes or posting the rules in total.


Gee..y'a think?

That's the most moving personal conversion I've ever heard.

Be back later tonight for one last round of comments if any, and then anything for the rest of time by e-mail.

Toral
 
312wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 12:51 		I thank you for your post SZ. It makes me feel better that someone understands my side.

Also I thank you Bili for the offer of returning my prospect. I am not sure where we stand on that, if that is something we can do or not, but i do appreciate the offer.
 
314 biliruben
      ID: 35112816
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 12:56 		We can certainly do it if you want him, Wiggs. It may be as simply as getting PD to do it. It might be as complicated as dropping him and telling everyone else to keep their grubby hands off until you pick him up.

BTW, if you (or anyone else) ever haw any questions about the rules of the league, or anything at all, you can email me.

My memory is not very good, but I'll do my best.

That's actually, beyond the good competition, what I will miss about Toral. He's got a memory like a steel drum. He'd make an excellent commish in a crazy league like this. Maybe he'd come back as a non-player commish.
 
315Action Figure
      ID: 20910
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 14:27 		I think the thing to do would be to return the prospects to Wiggs if it is determined he did not know the rule.

If anyone noticed I called up 2 of my prospects this year.

1) I wanted to be sure not to lose them to somebody if they happen to reach the threshold while I was "sleeping"

2) My team is going younger next year and I figure they will both be keepers as two of my disappointing veteran keepers make an exit.


 
316Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 14:35 		I don't know why anyone has any hard feelings. Losing Toral is an absolute disaster for this league and there are no two ways about it. He is the institutional memory and the consigliere of this league. He is irreplacable. He is one of the road blocks you know you will need to pass each year to win.

Yes he is garanteed to get all pissy and snarky and difficult a couple times a year and that is just part of the inexplicable crank who is Toral and just more of the unique flavor of this league that I don't want to lose.

Someone drive up to Canada, reintroduce him to that beverage which was designed to 'make the heart of mortal man rejoice' and extract a change of heart from this man.
 
317 Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 15:49 		OK, let's put this baby to bed.

Cam, thank you for 314. I liked 313, which was only up for a few minutes, even better. That was the one which nominated me as a non-playing commissioner.

Those things aren't going to happen.

I appreciate your support and friendship over the years. I wish you had taken the commissionership when it became open; the league would be a better place now. But I know there have been more important things (wooing and marrying mrs biliruben, deciding whether to make little bilirubens) to worry about.

I'm not checking this thread again; if you have comments, e-mail me.

I regard all of you as friends. You may be skeptical about this, but it is true. I can assure you that in the vicious internecine war that is now going on within my church, the Anglican/Episcopal church, the nastiest meanest things that any of us have said against one another would not be considered negative enough to even be blogged (by partisan bloggers).

Good luck to the league, may the best one win, and, one more thing...

Eat My Dust.

Toral

 
318Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 17:07 		I don't know why anyone has any hard feelings. Losing Toral is an absolute disaster for this league ...

and many of said him leaving was a bad thing for the leave. but he left on his own, and he left in mid-season. it's the mid-season leaving that makes me have hard feelings. you simply don't do that.
 
319nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 17:51
Wiggs if you want to put Chris Young on your team tell me now and I will drop him.

I picked him up on July 2nd, and posted it in the baseball discussion thread within a few minutes after the move, which presumably we are all reading this thread.

You didn't notice, or at least say anything until 8 days later.

In the prospect draft thread PD mentioned a player is only a prospect until he reaches 300AB although it's not clear from the post that another manager can claim him.

If you want to add him to you're team tell me now and I will drop him, no problem.

You will find most people in this league are at least reasonable and fair.

I won't gain any satisfaction in claiming a player from a manager who honestly didn't know the rules.

There are lots of threads from the past that list the rules but you would have to go back a year or two and do searches of "baseball" in the political forum and take the time to read them.

Let me know.

Nerve



 
320nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 17:58
Toral

I honestly was worried that something was medically wrong.

I know you can be a dick at times (as can I), but I had no idea you could be such a...drama QUEEN.

Boo Hoo




 
321nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 18:01
Tree i wouldn't bar you on my own - that's a league decision. but i will admit to feeling less than comfortable with your commitment level, and i wonder if you'll quit in mid-stream as well.

AHH this seems like a no brainer. Why would someone who threw a tantrum mid season and left the baseball league expect to be welcome in any other leagues. That's like DUH.

 
322Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 18:07 		I wouldn't dare mention what I thot was wrong. I can come up with the scenarios...heh. 8]
 
323nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 18:17
Seriously Wiggs no problem, but if you want Young you have to pick him up when I drop him and hold him for the season.

My intention was to hold him all year and see what his value is for next year. I'm in 10th place.

Your higher up in the standings then me so make sure it's what you really want before you take him.

I you want...no problem, I'll drop him as soon as you give the word in this thread (just remember we have an 8 hour time difference, I'm headed to bed).

You are right, the rules this year weren't clearly spelled out and you should have at least been warned to go back and read the old threads from years past.

Unlike Toral I don't think that's only the commissioner's responsibility, anyone in the league, including TORAL could have simply mentioned this to the new league members. The rules are there, it would have been nice if someone told you.





 
324Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 20:05 		Toral

E-mail me re:317.

I'd be curious about your position.
 
325Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 20:09 		PD

Response to your trade offer in Minetti League shouod be in your inbox. Since those Yahoo response thingies never work for me let me know if it went thru.
 
326Perm Dude
      ID: 296341119
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 20:34 		Hmmm. Nothing yet. Will keep checking.
 
327wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Wed, Jul 11, 2007, 23:50 		nerve, i appreciate it. You are also a good man. I will definately grab him asap.
Thank you so much
 
330nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jul 12, 2007, 05:32
OK I will drop him immediately.

I don't think he has been in my lineup. If he has it's only been a day or two.

I completely understand why yu weren't aware.

Now since all members are supposed to be reading this thread, I would say going forward everyone understands the following rule...

When a teams prospect reaches 300 AB or 75 IP the team manager has 7 days to decide if he wishes to keep the player by putting him on his active team/bench. On the 8th day after the milestone has been reached (12:00 AM Yahoo time) the player may be added to any teams roster.

Nerve

 
331nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jul 12, 2007, 06:06
Well I don't feel too bad about losing Young, I just dropped him for the Mariners top prospect, Adam Jones who is being called up to start today.

Apparently the local league managers don't think so highly of him ...Bili?

 
332biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Thu, Jul 12, 2007, 09:00 		I like him. Their are pickups that would help me more this year, if I even had room however.
 
333nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jul 12, 2007, 13:09

I like him. Their are pickups that would help me more this year, if I even had room however.

Yeah well you are a little higher in the standings then me...plus you need room on your bench for all the frickin' genius closer grabs you've made.

At the risk of "making excuses" that's one of the downsides to being asleep in the middle east while the games are being played.

Every morning when I go to grab a new closer, he's on Bili's team already...right Bili?

Nerve

 
334biliruben
      ID: 35112816
      Thu, Jul 12, 2007, 13:36 		Yeah, well. There are downsides to perpetual churn. Like dropping Capps and Hennessey to grab the new flavor right before they got the closer gig.
 
335nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Fri, Jul 13, 2007, 11:27
I know the feeling, I picked up Capps right after you dropped him and then I dropped him a day or two before he was named closer. doh
 
336Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Fri, Jul 13, 2007, 12:18 		PD

Has there been any effort to contact someone to serve as a interim manager for "Vacant" for the remainder of the season?
 
337Perm Dude
      ID: 196121310
      Fri, Jul 13, 2007, 12:26 		Yes, we've sent out three emails, and have had one person turn it down. I've got a little time this afternoon and will follow up with some calls.
 
338nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Jul 15, 2007, 12:54

Wiggs

Chris Young is now a free agent, please pick him up.

 
339wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Sun, Jul 15, 2007, 17:33 		i did, i didnt want to burn my priority, so i waited to today.
 
340nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Jul 15, 2007, 18:28
Wiggs

You were correct.

We need to do a better job of pointing new league members toward the rules buried in earlier threads.

Sorry you had to experience this.

Glad it worked out.

Under similar circumstances, I think members of the league have always acted honorably...that's one of the things that makes it a notch above other FBL's.

Yeah lot's of unorganized complicated rules, but in the end, if an injustice has been done, league members generally "do the right thing".

Good luck with Mr. Young.

Cheers,

Nerve

 
341Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Jul 16, 2007, 17:37 		As I mentioned on the Yahoo board, Alex Gordon will no longer be prospect eligible in just a few days. I propose that the Commish pick him up for the "Vacant" squad since it looks like there will not be a replacement manager in time.
 
342nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Jul 16, 2007, 18:20
zen 341 great call

 
343Seattle Zen
      ID: 86541617
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 11:09 		I haven't been so disgusted by a trade since Toral robbed the Snapper.

Pancho, trades like that sap the life out of your team and piss off the rest of the league.
 
344Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 11:29 		SZ - how so?

FWIW, that was a counter. i made a different offer, that PV felt wasn't acceptable, and this is what he countered with.

explain to me how that trade is unfair? i offered my rationale on the Yahoo board, and i'll offer it here too.

i am trading a 23-year old closer who in his first full season in the bigs had 37 saves, and averages nearly one K per IP; in return, i'm getting a 35-year-old OF who may very well be on the downside of his career. this season his Avg and OBP are both 25 points below his norm, and his SLG is 115 points below his norm.

obviously, i'm banking on Manny Ramirez having a torrid second half.

is there any question that if you look at their larger body of work that Ramirez is the superstar and Huston Street is a young buck with some great early stats and a heck of a lot of potential? absolutely no question, and if this were not a keeper league, i could understand your angst over this deal.

but this is a keeper league, and a 23 year old rising closer has a lot of value - more so than you're giving in this case. Street was a keeper for me last year, and probably would have been this year as well if i hadn't acquired Papelbon.
 
345Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 11:40 		SZ,
Why would that trade piss anyone off?
Ramirez has slumped into a very average OF
.288 13HR 53RBI 49R 0SB this season and he's 35 years old. I tried to trade him prior to the season and there were no takers.

Street is 24, and a closer on a winning team. His career ERA is 2.50, WHIP 1.03 and almost a strikeout per inning.

If anyone should be pissed, it's me for the crappy performance I've gotten from Oswalt since he joined my team.

Street is a young keeper. Manny is yesterday's news.
 
346Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 12:00 		STREET IS BADLY HURT! Even if he was healthy, that was an awful trade. Without knowing when he is coming back, that trade needs a VETO.

Street is 24, and a closer on a winning team.

Ah, no, he is a pitcher on the DL on a losing team. The 24 year old closer on a winning team is Jonathan Papelbaum, a player with some worth today.

Seriously, Pancho, do you have any idea of Street's health? After reading your last post, I do not think that you do.

There is a two day waiting period after trades are completed so the league has a chance to approve. This trade is a travesty and I am sure I am not alone in thinking so. I urge the rest of the league to veto this trade, a top 50 player should never be traded for a pitcher whose health is so questionable that no knows when he will pitch again.
 
347Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 12:10 		Seriously, Pancho, do you have any idea of Street's health?

Jul 17 Street (ulnar nerve) came through a simulated game on Monday with no problems and remains on schedule to be activated from the DL on Monday, the team's web site reports.
Recommendation: Street is expected to throw one more simulated game on Wednesday, followed by an appearance in a minor league game on Saturday before officially being cleared to return to the A's bullpen.


Yes.
 
348Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 12:17 		Don't be surprised to see him back on the DL before August comes around. Just ask Josh Johnson how ulnar nerves in pitching elbows heal.

One average half season out of a sure-fire first ballot Hall-of-Famer and you want to give him away for a second rate closer. You can pick up better closers each year in the draft. You can't find someone of Manny's caliber.

At minimum, Pancho, next time you are going to make a questionable trade, you might want to send out a league-wide e-mail - "Hey, I'm going to give Manny away for a closer on the DL, anyone want to beat that?" That trade sucked and should be vetoed.
 
349Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 12:41 		One average half season out of a sure-fire first ballot Hall-of-Famer and you want to give him away for a second rate closer. You can pick up better closers each year in the draft. You can't find someone of Manny's caliber.

in all seriousness, what does being a sure-fire first ballot Hall-of-Famer have to do with anything in FANTASY baseball?

Sammy Sosa (14 HRs, 63 RBIs, 39 runs, .246 Avg), Frank Thomas (14, 44, 38, .251), Jim Thome (15, 46, 37, .284), and Mike Piazza (22, 68, 39, .283 in 2006, since he's been injured most of this year), are all likely first or early ballot Hall-of-Famers, and with the exception of the injured Piazza, all have numbers very similar to Ramirez this season (13-53-49-.288), and in fact ALL have more homers than him.

are you telling me that in a keeper league, you wouldn't swap Sosa, Thomas, Thome, or Piazza for a 23-year-old closer who was lights out in college and, so-far, in the pros? Last year, Street was 5th in saves in MLB. And last time i looked, that was one of our categories in this league.
 
350Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 12:44 		Nice try, Tree

No one you mentioned is anywhere near Manny Ramirez. Keep talking about how great and young Street was. We'll have to wait and see if Street's career will follow the route of Eric Gagne, won't we.
 
351Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 13:07 		Nice try, Tree. No one you mentioned is anywhere near Manny Ramirez.

no?

Sosa, Thomas, and Thome all have more career HRs than Ramirez.

Sosa and Thomas have more career RBIs than Ramirez.

Sosa and Thomas have more career Runs than Ramirez.

Sosa has 200 more career SBs than Ramirez.

Granted, Ramirez does have a better career Avg than the other three.

They have numbers that exceed Ramirez' - for both their careers, and for this season.

i am not denying he is a great player and a Hall-of-Famer, but i think you are overvaluing an aging slugger on the downside of his career.
 
352Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 13:20 		Who cares what their career numbers are, Tree, Manny is a sure fire HOF and still playing like one, still the number three bat in the best offense in baseball. Your arguments are as pathetic as the trade.

I may be overvaluing a slugger on the downside of his career, but he is CERTAINLY worth more than some closer with a bum elbow.
 
353Baldwin
      ID: 125312919
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 13:27 		Unless someone can show me that ulnar nerve damage is typically known to destroy pitching careers, and I doubt it, this looks to me to be a case of trading away someone too old to be keeper-worthy for a closer who will prolly be keeper-worthy for a long long time to come.

It won't get a veto from me.
 
354Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jul 17, 2007, 13:31 		Who cares what their career numbers are, Tree, Manny is a sure fire HOF and still playing like one, still the number three bat in the best offense in baseball. Your arguments are as pathetic as the trade.

and Sosa, Thomas, and Thome - especially Sosa - aren't Hall of Famers? as for still playing like one, i already pointed out that all three have numbers equal to or better than Manny's THIS SEASON, but you're not wanting to see that.

you have a hard on for Manny. that's fine. but you're acting like i just acquired a dude hitting .330 with 29 homers and 75 ribbies at the All-Star Break for Mario Mendoza, and no such thing occurred.
 
355biliruben
      ID: 35112816
      Thu, Jul 19, 2007, 14:46 		If Street were already pitching and saving games, I don't think it would be a hideously lop-sided trade. Manny could very well be doing an Albert Belle. I don't think so, and would guess something along the lines of .280, 22HRs, 65RBIs and 50 runs the rest of the way, but a case could be made.

I've just been burnt too many times by pitchers "due to return next week, after rehab" never to be seen again.
 
356nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jul 19, 2007, 19:20

While I agree the trade is lopsided, considering the suspect health of the pitcher, a veto should only be used if there is obvious collusion. IMHO

Clearly that's not the case here.

 
357Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 00:12 		Taxman, an old bud from hockey leagues, has taken over my team, has the password, has successfully used it, etc. I'm happy that someone that I know and trust is in the place. Thanks to the Commissioner for arranging a quick and painless transfer.

It is Finished.

 
358Tree
      ID: 5615211
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 02:16 		welcome aboard Donny...good to see a familiar face taking over the reins...
 
359Perm Dude
      ID: 59610219
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 10:12 		Many thanks, Taxman, for jumping in and helping us out.
 
360biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 12:51 		Sweet. Welcome Taxman!

Don't say that too often.
 
361Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 17:00 		Huh? i thought you pinko socialist do gooders loved the Taxman...
 
362Seattle Zen
      ID: 86541617
      Sat, Jul 21, 2007, 17:40 		It's one for you nineteen for me... TAXMAN

Yeah, I love me my Taxman.
 
363Taxman
      ID: 96191121
      Sun, Jul 22, 2007, 19:42 		Thanks for the welcome. It is good to join the fray with some old(er) compadres.

And as a (one time only) peace offering to the league, this gift is proffered: I thought team's pitchers were set through Sunday.....not so. Holliday riding the pine for me today with a CG shut out :>(

I've read a bit of the history of this league in the Political threads. So I probably now know enough to be dangerous. I will send PD a list of questions. If I don't like the answers, I'll resend to other devious managers until I get the answers I want.

Again thanks for the invite, acceptance and serenade. By the way Seattle Zen or anyone...what were the names of the Beatles taxmen named in their song Taxman??
 
364coldwater coyotes
      ID: 544382119
      Sun, Jul 22, 2007, 19:50 		Wilson and Heath? 2 incompetent ex british prime ministers
 
365wiggs
      ID: 55013307
      Mon, Jul 23, 2007, 11:20 		welcome Tax, long time no talk
 
366Taxman
      ID: 96191121
      Mon, Jul 23, 2007, 23:47 		Excellent Will...you are a true connoisseur of 60's back-up harmony and British politics (or you can google well).

incompetent ex british prime ministers Is that an oxymoran?

Thanks Wiggs...much like the yester-year baseball season when when we first met. You and Farns(?) completed my TSN teams seasons after I bailed in protest of a price change or somesuch.

 
367wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Mon, Jul 23, 2007, 23:49 		oh yeah, i forgot about that.
 
368Perm Dude
      ID: 37623238
      Tue, Jul 24, 2007, 11:33 		Just so we have it in a retrievable place:

Seattle Zen sends his first round 2008 pick and Johnny Damon to Action Figures for Juan Pierre.
 
369Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Sun, Aug 12, 2007, 21:15 		I have made last minute trade offers offering Derek Jeter. I am looking for quality SP in return for the games best (AL's best??) SS.

Offer has to be accepted tonite, the last day for trades.
 
370nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 15:58
Yes I will be using my number one waiver spot tonight.

It's such a great story, coming back the way he has, maybe he has potential although I doubt he's a keeper.

I always find it tough to use the waiver pick in this league so I might as well not let it sit for the rest of the year.

I guess there might be a Sept call up worth waiting for but how many of them will hit 3 home runs their first week called up (And aren't already on someones prospect bench)

Yeah think I'll use it tonight.

 
371biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Aug 27, 2007, 13:00 		I think Zen spent too much time at Hempfest.
 
372Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Aug 27, 2007, 14:58 		i was offline this whole weekend, but how did bili make such a big leap. job well done to make it into a three-team race.
 
373biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Aug 27, 2007, 15:14 		Finally got some good pitching, even including foolishly starting Vasquez against Boston.
 
374biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Mon, Sep 17, 2007, 10:07 		Tree and Zen - I was thinking you slackers were going to let me run away with it, but now it's getting interesting!

Top 3 all within 2 points at the top, with the wannabes finally falling back.
 
375Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Sep 17, 2007, 11:29 		this is definitely going to go down to the wire. i think it's going to come down to who has the best numbers in the final 2 or 3 games of the season.

Manny getting hurt REALLY affected part of my bigger strategy, so i hope he comes back strong this last week of the season...
 
376nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Sep 17, 2007, 17:43

Rick Ankiel 9 home runs in 114 AB. Extrapolate that out to a 650 AB season and you get 51 home runs.

Not bad for a rookie who was drafted as a pitcher...then there's that sidebar about human growth hormones...details, details.



 
377deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 14:59 		Re 343 - I haven't been so disgusted by a trade since Toral robbed the Snapper.

Pancho, trades like that sap the life out of your team and piss off the rest of the league.

Seattle Zen - Smoking too much weed over long periods of time has proven to make you paranoid & depressed. You need to get over that trade and move on with your life. It was 4 years ago and we're both out of the league. What more do you want? Blood? It's people like you that are killing this website.

Get over it and try and have some fun. It's only fantasy baseball.
 
378biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 15:09 		Good to see you, DS!

Out of curiosity, what trade was that?
 
379Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 16:48 		i believe it was the deal where Toral traded Hank Blalock, Joey Gathright, Delmon Young, and his fourth round pick for David Ortiz, Scott Podsednik, and DS' last round pick.

i really don't think it was that bad of a trade, but then again, Charlie was the one who said of my Jeff Kent for Carl Crawford and Luis Castillo trade "Looks like I won't be in last two years in a row. Thanks Tree", "no team should ever consider using one of its precious 7 spots on Carl Crawford", and "you've basically traded Kent for Castillo, not a good trade in my mind."

i've placed in the top 3 three of my four years in this league, and neither Castillo nor Kent are considered keepers, while Crawford is a perennial keeper.
 
380Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 16:55 		Toral won the league after that trade. I won the league after the Kent trade.
 
381Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 17:18 		seems like win-win deals then.
 
382Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 18:01 		How in the world is the Toral/DS deal a win-win?

Without looking, I'd bet Ortiz has probably batted in the most runs in MLB since that trade.

What, exactly, did DS get for handing a giftwrapped 2005 league title to Toral?

Well, Blalock showed that his diminishing stats that year were in fact not a fluke but a real trend. And of course 2007 is about finished and Delmon Young, the big prize for DS' team, still has yet to make an impact.

I commented at the time (July, 2005) that the only way the deal might make sense was if DS was playing for 2008. And its looking like I was a bit overly optimistic for him! What are the chances that Young starts putting up keeper-worthy stats next year?

Its always very stupid to trade away one of the elite producers in the game for a guy who has never stepped on an MLB field. I don't care what "they" say about him.

Tree sometimes I think you publicly defend deals like this specifically because you hope it might keep the suckers game.
 
383Tree
      ID: 258461919
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 20:54 		Tree sometimes I think you publicly defend deals like this specifically because you hope it might keep the suckers game.

again - i realize you don't like me. fine.

you seem to forget that Delmon Young just turned 22 LAST WEEK. he's very young.

Blalock isn't even 27 yet. he had a bad year last year, and he's been hurt this year. but in his first three full seasons, he had 25+ HRs, 80+ runs, and 90+ RBIs. you've bought the hype that he's washed up, and he hasn't even hit his peak yet.

no doubt Ortiz is a big time run producer - one of the best in baseball. and i probably wouldn't have made the deal. but it was hardly robbery.
 
384Seattle Zen
      ID: 86541617
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 21:35 		seems like win-win deals then.

LMAO. Tree, are you auditioning for a position in the Bush Administration? Yeah, the Toral/Snapper trade was a "win-win" much like Saddam has vast stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction, much like the Surge is working.

Yellow cake from Niger...
 
385Tree
      ID: 258461919
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 22:25 		ugh. just reading Pujols might be done for the year. if that's the case, then i am too. blah.
 
386Tree
      ID: 51837215
      Fri, Sep 21, 2007, 06:39 		one of the reasons i love fantasy baseball is that it truly is a marathon, and it is also a bit of a war of attrition.

i really thought i'd pull this out at the end of the season, and trading for Manny was the key to that. But losing Manny, Crawford, and Pujols down the stretch did incredible damage to my team.

i'm not quite out of it, but it's not looking good. this season has been a LOT of fun for me, and the competitiveness here is one of the reasons i love this league.
 
387biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Sep 21, 2007, 10:03 		Yeah - I run a home league, with money on the line, and know all the managers personally.

But I pay much more attention to this league, for whatever reason.
 
388biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Sep 22, 2007, 19:41 		Tied at the top.

For the moment.
 
389biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 12:13 		Nice consolation prize in Butler, Tree.
 
390Seattle Zen
      ID: 86541617
      Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 14:13 		Gaining half a point a night is not enough. So, for the next two days I order my team to:

Win its last four starts.

Steal four or more bases.

Crush the ball at a .600 clip to pick up two or three points of AVE.

Keep the Westies behind us in saves and no more wins for those guys.

Keep scoring runs and hitting Perm Dudes to keep the rabble in their place...

and the title will be mine! Sounds simple enough, let's do it!
 
391Tree
      ID: 27823293
      Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 15:42 		if things stay as they are, it'll be a first in this league. i don't think we've ever had three teams score 115+ points in a season.

this has been an incredible year, and all along i kept watching and waiting to sneak up on SZ, which i finally did. then, out of nowhere, Bili passed us both, and has barely looked back...
 
392Seattle Zen
      ID: 86541617
      Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 19:16 		$*&*%@#!!!!! Trevor F'ing Hoffman, you FU€KING SUCK!
 
393biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 20:11 		So does Pettitte. Almost benched him to play it safe. I'm like, "naw. It's Baltimore!"

Jeez.
 
394biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 09:09 		How the heck did Pettitte end up with a W? 8 runs and a W?

Sheesh.
 
395biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 09:10 		We were tied when I went to bed, but a couple of gift Ws, and I still have a little lead.

Last day!
 
396biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 18:53 		half a point.
 
397Myboyjack
      ID: 5093418
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 10:38 		Congrats to bili, I think. Could tonight's game change things?
 
398Perm Dude
      ID: 5093716
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 10:50 		No. Yahoo isn't counting today's stats.
 
399Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 12:00 		congrats Bili. helluva run man, helluva run.

i know i said it earlier, but i cannot stress how much i enjoy this league.
 
400biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 12:01 		Thanks! Skin of my teeth.

I was feeling pretty cocky after passing them both a few weeks ago, and my moat looked wide. But Zen stole Tree's thunder and used it to lead a final charge which ended just short. They were going back and forth, stealing each other's points in large part, and I preferred them that way, but Tree didn't keep up his end of the bargain.

I'm glad the season ended when it did!
 
401Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 13:46 		in the end, the following doomed me:

1. Bay, Crawford, and Manny all going down with injuries in the last month of the season.

2. Reyes going down and choking like John Holmes' co-star, hitting .205 over the last month of the season.

3. my insistance that Gerald Laird would turn it around at C.

but ultimately, it was injuries, and key players struggling down the stretch that did me in.

not to take anything away from bili.
 
402nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 14:03

Really good both Zen and Bili. It was fun watching the race to the end. Too bad one of you had to come in 1.5st place...I can't even say 2nd

Nerve

 
403Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 14:17 		What a year. I busted out of the gates and just kept rolling. I feel very happy that I managed to trade for Hanley Ramirez without gutting my team, though I sure could have used Frank Thomas at the end.

When you lose by half of a point, it is just downright silly to do a “what-if” analysis. It’s just like a 180 mile Tour de France stage where two bikes come down to the very end and one bike wins by a nose. Yeah, every single pump of the crank counted, what can you do? I am so very happy that the season is over, all year long I’ve been a nervous wreck watching my team do great, slump, get a second wind, and just miss.

My team had a terrible August, led by Justin Morenau, who simply forgot how to hit for power. As I slipped into third, I was so distraught. I was kicking myself for not being more aggressive before the trade deadline, then I realized something. Who would have saved this team? The whole squad sucked, it wouldn’t have mattered if I had picked up two hot bats, it wasn’t going to be enough. I committed the most common fantasy sin, I stuck with players for too long, Richie Sexson, Mark Teahen, and Johnny Estrada. I am glad with my decision not to call up Justin Upton and Phillip Hughes. They will be a great help next year.

I am a charter member of this league and I have wanted to win this more than any other fantasy league ever, and I started playing 19 years ago. It’s unfortunate that league stalwarts have left, like MITH, Madman, and that Canadian. I’ve gone through the baseball threads looking for one exchange and now starting to wonder if I didn’t just dream this, but I was ticked off when Toral said, “hey, I’m not doing this because you are in first place, you deserve to win this, blah, blah, blah” or something like that. I felt like I was on the mound in the sixth inning of a no-hitter and one of the opposing squad’s batters makes a big stink and leaves, then throws the ultimate baseball jinx by congratulating me. Pissed me off.

I think the only reason I was able to make it close at the end was that about a quarter of the teams stopped making roster moves and a quarter of the teams DIDN’T MAKE ANY ALL YEAR! I think we all know that the current zeitgeist in the Sox household does not include fantasy baseball and I assume that we will have to replace him. I don’t want to replace some other managers, but I think there are a couple of new faces that simply did not bring much energy and effort to this league. There were very few trades being made this year. I do not remember one unsolicited offer being thrown my way. Come on, people, if you aren’t going to win it this year, at least try to maneuver your squad towards a better set of 7 keepers. Coldwater was absolutely a great addition to the league.

I did so well because I had outstanding performances from my keepers. Matt Holliday and Jake Peavy should be the NL MVP and Cy Young winners. Chipper Jones is consistently underrated in fantasy. Everyone scoffs at the fact he misses games each year because of injury. Yeah, but in these daily leagues I can switch him out. Stupid me thought Teahen would be a solid replacement. Chris Young was one of the lowest ranked keepers in this league pre season, he was great, yet also affected by injury.

You know, I think I made some big mistakes in this draft. Johnny Damon was a dud, certainly not the second best player out there. Richie Sexson was really disappointing, I watched him get jammed on about 435 pitches and then immediately swing over the top of 435 breaking balls in the dirt for strike three. Few players hit the ball as far when he extends his arms, but batting practice homers don’t count. Drafted Podsednic too early. “Never” would have been the optimum round.

How in the world I finished second in saves is a mystery never to be solved. I lost two of my three closers at the All Star break. I saved my waiver wire priority for the first time this year and when Brad Hennesey was named closer, Coldwater had just cut him, I was lucky. J. Soria, thee of one save a week, was just enough to keep me from slipping behind Cam.

I consider this year a resounding success simply because I beat Tree. Tree, who put together the most formidable seven keepers this league has seen and made what I thought was the second best draft pick this year – Brandon Phillips, yet I still beat him. I’ll tell you why… I don’t like to tip off my competition as to mistakes they make, but Tree will continue to make this mistake, so it doesn’t matter. It simple – all Tree had to do to win this year was to… trade Carl Crawford. Hey, Tree, you can only get 14 points from steals! I’m sure there was some squad in this league that would have given you two players to fill out your roster for Crawford, but if you actually traded him away, you would have to come up with an actual retort other than CARL CRAWFORD, CARL CRAWFORD, CARL CRAWFORD!!! Yeah, you will again have the best seven keepers and I hope I can do this to you again :)

Cam, most people would not have recovered from a pre-season decision to keep Rickie Weeks and cut Maglio Ordonez, but you put together the greatest offense this league has ever seen. Masterful use of the waiver wire, even better robbery of MBJ for David Wright. Very well done.

Half a point?!?! I want a recount!
 
404biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 14:54 		Hah. Magglio.



For what it's worth, there was little question of Weeks. I think it was actually a decision between Kinsler and Magglio. And I turned Kinsler into Wright, so how big a mistake was that?

In any case, with my other Brewers, Prince and Braun, joining with Wright, Vlad and Sheff, my offensive dominance was secure. Actually too secure. I should have traded for more pitching, but what pitcher besides Johan are you going to trade the likes of Vlad, Wright, Braun or Prince for?

I counter-offered Braun to Tree for K-Rod after declining his mix of broken-down minor leaguers, and he was insulted. Such is life. Schilling and Saito for my one tradable bat, Adrian Gonzalez, were just barely enough to get it done. I'll miss Gonzalez, who's extremely talented, but boy does he need some bats around him. Vasquez' resurgence balanced out a thoroughly average September for Johan, and Pettitte got me the Ws, though at the expense of my ratios.

Anyway, it was a great season. Terrific run, Zen and Tree, and great competition.

Tax and CC, thanks for stepping up and making a very solid showing. You will be formidable in the future, I'm sure. I can also count on the rest of you, particularly MBJ, Nerve, AF, Pancho and Baldwin putting together formidable squads down the road, though the with right focus, every team has some bright spots that can be capitalized on in rebuilding. Sox, sadly, looks like he may have let fantasy fall from his priorities.

Now I just have to figure out how to shoe-horn some of my talented Dodgers into my roster next year!

Great year, all. I had a blast.
 
405Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 15:53 		beat Tree. Tree, who put together the most formidable seven keepers this league has seen and made what I thought was the second best draft pick this year – Brandon Phillips,

out of curiousity, what was the first best pick?

It simple – all Tree had to do to win this year was to… trade Carl Crawford. Hey, Tree, you can only get 14 points from steals!

on hindsight, this is true. i think what happened was that i got so far ahead in steals, i stopped paying attention to the category until after the trade deadline (part of why i sat Reyes for Greene for a bit, hoping to move up in RBIs). i literally didn't notice i was so far ahead, and certainly could have helped my team out - not making excuses, because that's part of the game - paying attention, which definitely cost me, although with Bili's run at the end there, i'm not sure it would have worked out for me anyway.

still, you're right. i do love rubbing the Crawford trade in your face, but that's not why i didn't trade him. mis-management was why i didn't trade him. :o/

as for other owners in this league, i do think we'll need to replace Sox, and i hope Punk and Wiggs - should they return - get a bit more active in trades and transactions.

we did have some great, exciting trades this year:
Jeter, Manny, Street, Nathan, Wells, Papelbon, Hanley, Dice-K, Oswalt, and Wright all switched teams.

so, is it too early to open the Hot Stove League? :o)
 
406Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 16:04 		Wiggs fifth rounder of some bum who put up .363 117/28/139/4 numbers, the second best offensive player after A-Rod. Quite the career year for Mags.

Brandon was certainly a close second and the top draft pick as a future keeper. He was lights out and I'm sure will continue to be.
 
407Pancho Villa
      ID: 495272016
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 16:16 		Great race bili and SZ.

I suppose I won't get an exoneration from SZ for the Manny trade, but the final standings show I ended up ahead of Tree in both HR and RBI, as well as moved up 4 spots after the trade.

Even though Street didn't make a big impact on my team, I did end up 4th in saves, after struggling in that category for the first 4 months.

Now I'm faced with a Padres/Rockies playoff game with mixed emotions, since I'm a Padre fan, but a Rockies sympathizer. GO Padkies!! Go Rocdres!!
 
408wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 16:20 		i guess i just have the philosophy that i like to stick with the team i pick in baseball. In football i dont do that but for some reason i have a hard time moving the guys i draft in baseball. maybe because there are no bye weeks forcing me to make a move. Anyways, i still finished 6th and i really didnt like what i had coming back from last season. I do plan on returning next season and hopfully will improve even more.

How many keepers do we get?
 
409Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 16:25 		7
 
410Perm Dude
      ID: 5093716
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 16:32 		Good year, fellas. Best move of the year: Toral dumping himself.
 
411Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:49 		Congrats Bili!
 
412biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 17:50 		Thanks, Punk!
 
413nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 18:25

I do have one advantage here in Dubai (Let's face it combined with many disadvantages)

With a month to go in the season I was in 10th-11th place. I was also 80 IP behind.

Every morning when I woke up I was able to analyze the probable pitchers while the rest of you slept and pick off one or two a day to get my IP back to even and at the same time add Wins, and K's.

This certainly moved me up a few slots toward the end of the season.

 
414biliruben
      ID: 17502215
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 19:16 		Yeah, Nerve. That's the advantage of having a tyke wake you up at 5 am as well. Though of course I have a 3 hour disadvantage on that front to those on the East Coast. There just didn't seem to be much competition for pitcher rotation, and I did it all year (take a look at my transactions), until about the the time you started. That's when I got to near even and Schilling came back.

BTW, now that I think harder, I don't think I ever seriously considered keeping Magglio. It was between Kinsler and Granderson, iirc. Personally, I think the Granderson pick up by Wiggs was better than the Magglio pick up, given this is a keeper league, and I think it was as a FA!

My crown is tarnished, and I tip it to Wiggs.
 
415wiggs
      ID: 2542623
      Mon, Oct 01, 2007, 23:48 		lol
thanks

congrats to you sir
 
416nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 05:14
ATTENTION Zen

I just noticed you have Ellsbury on you team. Not only that he was in your line up the last week of the season. I didn't go back any further then that.
In any case Ellsbury is my prospect. Please see the prospect thread.

I guess it's a good thing you didn't win because this may of had a material effect on your and others performance during the end of the season.

Sorry I didn't catch it at the time but I didn't notice. People were picking up and dropping so much that players names didn't stay on the main page long.

Obviously I will want the stud back for next year...8-}

 
417Seattle Zen
      ID: 529121611
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 12:44 		I sent you an e-mail about that, Nerve. I noticed the mistake after the season was over.

Jacoby will still be considered your prospect, there is precedent for that as Toral got Chuck James back this year when it was pointed out that he had been picked up during 2006.

Sorry about the mistake. I'm usually the guy who notices when others pick up prospects. I thought I had the entire prospect list memorized. I was wrong.
 
418nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Oct 28, 2007, 13:08

Zen I made a bone eaded pick up this year also.

It happens to the best of us.