Forum: pol
Page 2873
Subject: I Said A Bad Thing


  Posted by: Pancho Villa - [42231410] Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:05

Don Imus is under intense pressure for comments he made about the Rutger's University womens' basketball team last week.
Outside of New York, Imus is barely known, yet he seems to have a long career and a loyal following. Al Sharpton has called for his firing, as well as complaining to the FCC. Jesse Jackson is organizing a rally in Chicago.

I'm curious why Sharpton and Jackson haven't been as vocal about the the hundreds of songs by hip hop artists that use the same type of language(hos) in ways even more degrading and irresponsible. It's a complete double standard where free speech and expression is acceptable on one hand and unacceptable on the other.
Imus is an entertainer and, as I understand it, somewhat comedic.
If the FCC gets involved in this case, how can it not be intrepreted as the government interferring with free speech?
 
1Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:13
to their credit Jackson and Sharpton have gotten involved with the language african americans use to refer to each other, including bitch, ho, and, of course, the n-word.

that being said, they don't call for boycotts of records by various hip hop artists, which would be in effect the same standard they are looking for from Imus...
 
2Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:14
I completely didn't think about the Rap Music part of this equation... but you are absolutely right. Its blatantly hypocritical.
 
3sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:26
Have often times questioned, and done so outloud, why 4 black guys bs'ing together can call each other n----- this and n----- that and all is OK. Let someone of any other race say the word...and all hell breaks loose.

My thought on it is fairly simple...You dont like it if I use the word? Then you dont need to use the word either. You use it? You just gave me permission to do the same.
 
4Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:34
In modern vernacular, ho doesn't mean prostitute, just another slang word like chicks, babes, dames, broads, etc.

I can understand the controversy, I just fail to see how government involvement is anything but unconstitutional.

As far as the term nappy-headed, I'm reminded of Stevie Wonder using that description of himself in the song "I Wish."
 
5C1-NRB
      ID: 5932328
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:34
I'm not sure "ho" was the problem. I think it was the hairstyle-describing adjective preceding it that is offensive.

Spike Lee used it "School Daze;" a dance number revolved around it if I'm remembering correctly.
 
6Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:37
You might call your brother d1ckhead and the intention is nothing but endearing and you and your brother understand that.

Does that mean anyone who wants to can refer to him as d1ckhead whenever they want?
 
7sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:39
Bad example MITH...cause yes they can, since he is one. lol
 
8Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 12:46
Re#3: Because it is rarely said by white people in the same way as black people say it among themselves.
 
9Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:00
PD #8

So, segregation is OK when it comes to speech? How does Barack Obama, who is half black/half white or Tiger Woods, who is half black/half Asian fit into the equation?

Can they use racially charged speech from both sides of their heritage with impunity?
 
10Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:02
Is it "racially charged" when a black person, speaking to another black person, says "nigger?"
 
11Boxman
      ID: 251142612
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:14
This kind of thing needs to be done on a case by case basis. The Michael Richards thing was obviously pretty ignorant. This just seems like a shock-jock being a shock-jock.
 
12Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:21
I completely agree. In most cases (as you've noted in the past on this forum, PV), the word "nigger" is a slur.

It just so happens that uses by whites are almost always slurs, while uses by blacks aren't.
 
13Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:23
In modern vernacular, ho doesn't mean prostitute, just another slang word like chicks, babes, dames, broads, etc.

Umm... no. Ho still means ho, no longer short for whore, but a synonym for "slut". To call a team of hard working college athletes "nappy-headed sluts" is totally beyond the pale.

Who cares what some rap artists say? I find the mention of rap artists in this thread very strange, Pancho, it seems like you are giving them a spokesman position for the African American community. Let's go on the assumption that Panic at the Disco does not speak for me anymore than Fiddy Cents speaks for the NAACP.
 
14Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:36
SZ
Granted, I'm far removed from the scene that uses this type of slang.

However, when some guys are in a club and they see a group of girls they want to pick up, and say to each other,

" Look at them fine lookin hos"

I don't know if that's a synonym for sluts or just wishful thinking.

Now, Michael Savage calls Muslims murderous animals on a daily basis, yet no one with any influence is complaining to the FCC about that.

I just think it sets a bad precedent if the government gets involved with fines or license suspensions.

 
15bibA
      ID: 3122376
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:44
I find it difficult to believe that so many people apparently do not see the difference in the intent among blacks using the n word, and the intent of whites (usually/99% of the time?) when they use the word.

That being said, does Imus deserve to be fired for what he said? As an example, maybe. However, he does seem to be pretty sincere in his apologies. It will be interesting to see if he is able to sway Sharpton when they meet face to face. I also wonder what Imus history is re race relations. What were his attitudes 30 years ago when civil rights were being debated regularily?

These radio personalities who do live broadcasts are under a lot of pressure to be politically correct at all times. It is a bit surprising that these types of incidents do not occur more often.
 
16biliruben
      ID: 52014814
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 13:50
Fire his ass if you feel that he is not representing your media conglomerate in the manner too which he said he would in his contract.

But I think idiots should be allowed to make sure everyone knows they are idiots.

He can say whatever he wants, but there may be consequences. Those consequences shouldn't be from the government or criminal legal arena, however.
 
17Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:02
Who cares what some rap artists say? I find the mention of rap artists in this thread very strange, Pancho, it seems like you are giving them a spokesman position for the African American community.

i care. most african-american leaders care. you *should* care.

and a lot of african-american kids care. whether you want to accept it or not, they are an influence on the community that listens to hip-hop.

now, obviously, not everyone takes what they say to heart. i listen to a ton of hip hop. i'm going to Rock the Bells here in NYC, and i'm not keen on shooting people up or dropping the n-word at every corner...

but there are plenty of kids - white, black, asian, hispanic, and every one else - who are influenced by hip hop culture.

and i assure you, a lot more of those kids look up to hip hop artists than they do Don Imus. heck, most of them don't even know who Don Imus is...

 
18Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:03
Imus isn't well known outside of NYC? I know Stern HATES the guy and is considers him his enemy. I figured it was bigger than just here.
 
19rockafellerskank
      ID: 450122417
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:23
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the media reporting (outcry?) would be if Barack Obama were overheard talking 'privately' among friends (perhaps an open mic nearby) and said: "Did you see that game last night, those Ni**as can really ball" -- or some such. Just a casual use of the N word meant to be private.

I know this isn't quite on topic of the thread and I'm not intending this to lean to either side. I'm just curious as to what those who've expressed opinions here (PD, Tree, sarge) think would be the uproar, if any at all? Who would piss and moan (O'Reilly, Rush) and who would defend (Jess and Al), or no?

The N word is a slur when used as a slur, but canbe used differently. Don't you "dumbasses" think so? ;)

IMO, if there are any consequences for Imus, I believe they should be from his employer. As far as I know the FTC lists 7 words you cannot say and he did not say those words. However his employer could take issue a number of different ways -- financial harm due to loss of advertisers and creating a hostile work environment if an coworker complains. If I said what Imus said at work, I'd har about it from my boss. Regardless waht you believe, you ahve to be stooopid these days to say certain things that will cause backlash. just not a good idea.
 
20Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:28
I don't think that Obama would say such a thing--and I'm not saying that to avoid the question. I think the use is restricted to a certain class of people, mostly.

Sharpton might us it. Jackson, maybe. Obama? Never.

 
21rockafellerskank
      ID: 450122417
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:44
C'mon, PD, I agree. Obama wouldn't use it, but that defeats the purpose of a hypothetical supposition... and I'd never say never!!! But, stranger things have been known to be overheard in this world.... IF he did....

I'll go first. Some (conservatives?/whites?) would crucify him. they would try to make an issue of it to hurt him politically. Others (democrats?/minorities?) would justify his right to use free speech -- especially privately. The upshot: even if you consider the argument that he is part black and free speech, it would still make him worse off (to some degree) after the comemnt than better; can we agree on that? Regardless, Jesse wouldn't rally and Al wouldn't be calling for his resignation. Or am I mistaken?

I guess what I'm getting at is the argument that it matters WHO says the N word is just a justification. It still has ramifications if you wnat supportin a traditional sense. Rappers/Comedians don't need that kind of support. They need support of their market segment which accepts/condones it.

By the way, I disagree with your comment that only a certain class of people use that word. I believe it is used across all classes. i think there are those that use it in private that are smart enough not to use it in public.... those people scare me more.
 
22Perm Dude
      ID: 1434597
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 14:46
Some conservatives would bitch, as sarge has, in the "double standard." But these are hardly the people who are going to be voting for Obama!
 
23katietx
      ID: 3810431417
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:29
Hmmm, wonder if I'm being racist against German/Scandinavian heritage when I call sarge a *dh*? heh
 
24Jag
      ID: 14849321
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 17:32
Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
Because Jimmy Carter destroyed the economy
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring

Sneaking out the back door
To hang out with those hoodlum friends of mine
Because all the Liberals like a revolving door on prisons
Greeted at the back door
With boy thought I told you not to go outside
Tryin' your best to bring the
Water to your eyes
Thinkin' it might stop her
Grom woopin' your behind
I will just sue her in a California court

I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
Cause the Liberals say you are miserable and you just don't know it.

Brother says he's tellin'
'Bout you playin' doctor with that girl
Just don't tell I'll give you
Anything you want in this whole wide world
I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Mama gives you money for Sunday school
You trade yours for candy after church is through.

wish those days could come back once more
Why did those Liberals make those days ev-er have to go
I wish those days could come back once more, I will vote Republican
Why did those days ev-er have to go
I want Reagan.
 
25sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 18:19
Hmmm, wonder if I'm being racist against German/Scandinavian heritage when I call sarge a *dh*? heh

No...just rude. :)
 
26Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 18:51
Just saw a portion of the Imus/Sharpton exchange on ESPN.

It's scary to think that either one of these guys is a role model for anyone.
 
27Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 21:27
Imus suspended for two weeks

In the wake of comments host Don Imus made on the April 4 edition of MSNBC's Imus in the Morning -- in which Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos" -- NBC News announced that "[b]eginning Monday, April 16, MSNBC will suspend simulcasting the syndicated 'Imus in the Morning' radio program for two weeks," according to a statement posted on the NBC Universal Media Village website. Additionally, CBS Radio announced it will suspend Imus for the same two-week period, according to an April 9 Associated Press report. That report asserted that CBS made the suspension "without comment."
 
28Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Apr 09, 2007, 21:32
2 week paid vacation, he's living it up like a rapper. ;'P
 
29Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 13:51
Jason Whitlock with one of the very few intelligent takes on Imus and Sharpton

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.



I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.
 
30Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 14:28
MBJ - that goes all the way back to what i said in the first response in this thread...
 
31Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 14:33
I'm not sure at all why that is such an intelligent, much less significant 'take'.
 
32Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 14:39
Sorry, I reacted after reading only the first paragraph. The following paragraphs are much more legitimate. I have no idea why MBJ includes (or Whitlock indends with) the first one in post 29.
 
33Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 15:03
If you read the linked article and don't have an idea what Whitlock is saying about all the selective outrage and misplaced anger evident in all the "victims" in this sorry incident, then I can't help you.

You don't think think it ironic that the Rutgers players at the hour long pity party...er..press conference Whitlock described might be jammin' to the same words they claim "took away their season"?
 
34Perm Dude
      ID: 39326119
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 15:15
I saw that press conference. I think they were referring to all the outrage which Imus started with his comment that took away all the good things in their season. And they are right. They got their asses kicked in game one (by 40 points) and came back to get into the finals.

You might be right about the necessity for outrage in the black community, but accusing the Rutgers players of being hypocrites with a breezy "I’m sure..." isn't going to cut it.

pd
 
35Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 15:22
You're missing it, PD. I don't think anyone is accusing the Rutgers players of anything, PD. They didn't create this situation. This is about the enviroment that makes them victims of Don Imus and fans of thug culture, simultaneously.
 
36Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 15:44
You don't think think it ironic that the Rutgers players... might be jammin' to the same words they claim "took away their season"?

No. Not particularly.


I've seen you react to use of the term 'redneck' in this forum. That you might be square dancin' at one time or another to that word isn't ironic, either.
 
37Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 15:57
MITH - post 36:

1. I've, before, pointed out that the term redneck is a perjorative that is racist in origin. I have never held a weepy press conference or demanded a boycott because someone used the term in reference to me.

2. If I did as decribed in # 1, above, and then went around supporting artists who spewed the term around like gangsta rappers do "hos" etc - I would be due criticism for my selecitve outrage.

3. "square dancin"? You are clearly insane.
 
38Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 16:19
1. I have never held a weepy press conference or demanded a boycott because someone used the term in reference to me.

Did the Rutgers players demand a boycott? I'm with you and Whitlock on the selective outrage of Sharpton and Jackson and Stringer. The reaction of the Rutgers players is distinct from theirs because Imus' belittling racial insults were directed specifically at them, not in some general manner. I'm quite sure that if was the latest hip hop faux-artist who released a track that attacked those women rather than Imus spouting off on his show, the reaction would have been the same.

2. This is pointless. You don't know anything more about their musical tastes than I do. And I have no problem with the fact that I've listened to and enjoyed music and art that I found disagreeable or grotesque or detrimental in one way or another. Sometimes you can appreciate something despite the politics behind it. We are talking about college kids.

3. jammin', square dancin', whatever.
 
39Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 16:28
MITH -see 35. I don't fault the Rutgers players or accuse them of anything. You're right, I don't know or care what's on their ipod.

 
40Building 7
      Sustainer
      ID: 171572711
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 16:31
I don't know if anyone thought of this; but you could turn the radio to another station and never have to listen to this Imus dude again.
 
41Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 17:55
Hillary chimes in

This is the only part worth reading:

Sen. Clinton does not always sign her name to e-mails sent to her supporters, instead using surrogates such as campaign officials.

But this time Sen. Clinton may have had a personal motive to take on Imus. Clinton’s e-mail blast could easily be viewed as payback against Imus for constantly attacking her on the air — even referring to her often as "satan” or the "devil."


 
42Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:25
I don't know if anyone thought of this; but you could turn the radio to another station and never have to listen to this Imus dude again.

Oh heavens no. God forbid the market decides anything. Let's have the PC Police round up everyone into detention centers instead for thought reprocessing.
 
43Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:31
Oh heavens no. God forbid the market decides anything. Let's have the PC Police round up everyone into detention centers instead for thought reprocessing.

Whatever are you talking about? All that's happened to Imus, the boycotts, protests, call for his firing - that is the market working.
 
44Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 19:40
Whatever are you talking about? All that's happened to Imus, the boycotts, protests, call for his firing - that is the market working.

Yeah and who is leading the charge?

Jesse Jackson. The guy whose Presidential campaign went to hell over a Jewish slur.

Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle.
 
45Perm Dude
      ID: 39326119
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:01
Hmmm. Attack the messenger much.

[Of course you do]

I disagree with much of what MBJ's opinion on this issue, but he's exactly right on the point of where the backlash is coming from. And he's exactly right that this is where it should come from. Don't mistake private citizens who express displeasure through consumer action with that of the government, through some kind of "police action."
 
46Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:05
God forbid the market decides anything.

I love these "conservatives" who don't see market forces at work when that is exactly hat is happening right in front of their faces.
 
47Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:07
Hip and irreverent.

You can't get the critics and culture gatekeepers to adore you unless you are.

How do you expect a 70 yr old cowboy in NYC to be hip and irreverent if he can't occasionally synch up with rap culture and make meaningless offhand sarcastic remarks?

Who is left to be the object of irreverence?

Why is irreverence the first and highest compliment the exact same culture hands out?
 
48Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:28
I don't know of anyone who would call Imus hip. I highly doubt Imus himself would accept that term.

And if you think Imus syncs with rap culture to achieve irreverence you obviously don't ever listen to or watch his show.
 
49Tree
      ID: 52331117
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 20:44
How do you expect a 70 yr old cowboy in NYC to be hip and irreverent if he can't occasionally synch up with rap culture and make meaningless offhand sarcastic remarks?

while not living in NYC, Willie Nelson does a fine job of being hip and irreverent without offending in the manner Imus did, and he's a 70+ year old cowboy who has actually done duets with hip hop icons like Wyclef Jean.
 
50Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 22:34
I don't know of anyone who would call Imus hip

An awful lotta people wanna buddy up to him.

you obviously don't ever listen to or watch his show.

I watch the TV simulcast occasionally. I get his act.
 
51Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Apr 11, 2007, 23:42
I've noticed Alan Greenspan has been at times quite an in-crowd socialite. Neither he nor Imus are 'hip' in my opinion. If you disagree, so be it.


If Imus needs to channel hip hop culture to achieve irreverence, please explain the part of hip hop culture that depicts Gwen Ifill as a cleaning lady and says Venus and Serena Williams have a better chance at posing nude for National Geographic than for Playboy?

I'm not calling him a racist, I really wouldn't know. Just using the info currently available in the public discussion to make a point: irreverence seems to come to him naturally enough with the aid of rap epithets.


And if one of the Rutgers players was your wife or daughter you wouldn't describe his comments as meaningless offhand remarks.
 
52katietx
      ID: 3810431417
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 00:22
MSNBC drops Imus

But as part of an "ongoing review process," which included input from its own employees, NBC Universal decided stronger action was necessary, the company said in a statement.

I would like to see the NAACP protest some of the record companies that put out the crap that really denegrates women. Don't see that happening anytime soon as many pockets would then go unlined.
 
53CJ
      Sustainer
      ID: 499271021
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 07:40
But that would change if advertisers started pulling out or people that despise that stuff found out the companies supporting them. Then those offended by that would not buy from anyone with that label, ect...
 
54Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 07:58
Katie

Right on about the NAACP's failure to address the glorification of mysogonty and violence in music.

But how would doing so see their pockets go unlined?
 
55Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 09:08
But how would doing so see their pockets go unlined?

MITH - i don't think she was referring to the NAACP with that line. she was referring to the large number of people who make a living off hip hop culture...
 
56katietx
      ID: 3810431417
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 09:56
Actually a bit of both MITH/Tree. Indeed those making a living off hip hop culture would suffer some amount of loss, but I was also thinking in terms of some of those so-called artists who contribute to the NAACP.
 
57Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 10:00
post 51 correction:

irreverence seems to come to him naturally enough without the aid of rap epithets.
 
58Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 10:56
And if one of the Rutgers players was your wife or daughter you wouldn't describe his comments as meaningless offhand remarks.

My choices would be whether I actually thot he thot my wife or daughter was an actual whore or believing it was a casual slide into meaningless idiom of the day. I wouldn't be terribly amused but I wouldn't be tearing my hair out and ripping my outter garments over it either.

If you actually believe Imus thinks [or wants us to think] that those girls are sex-workers, then it is time for you to take a break from the Poliboard because you are losing your connection with reality and driving yourself mad.

The truth is that no one actually believes Imus thinks they are sex workers, nor do they believe he wants them to think so.

This is entirely an excersize in Orwellian thot control and behavior modification. This is politically correct terrorism without actually dragging out the guillotine they want to make the point that they can put anyone, no matter how powerful, out on the street and unemployed and unemployable.

They know they can't [yet] actually send a jack-booted thug to every instance of double plus ungood think but they can still create an atmosphere of terror.
 
59Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 11:00
And yes, MITH, if he didn't really mean it then it is meaningless.
 
60Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 11:51
Of course he's not calling them sex workers. You really don't understand the epithet he used at all.
 
61Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 11:58
And I didn't see any Rutgers players tearing hair or clothing either.
 
62Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 12:44
Maybe not tearing hair and clothes, but making statements like [paraphrased]it ruined their season or was the worst thing that had happened in their lives is way over the top. In reality, a Rutger's women basketball team that no one in the country besides relatives and WNBA scouts could give a crap about is now front page news around the nation. You can't buy that kind of pub.
Same with Imus. Even though he's lost his simulcast and likely will lose his CBS gig, I predict he will be picked up in syndication because of his now elevated to celebrity instead of cult status.
 
63Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 13:09
They are college students. Of course this is the worst thing in their lives.

And next month, the worst thing will be something else. I don't think you can say that they should simply have kept quite because the program got some publicity.
 
64Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 15:44
To his credit, Sharpton has, in the past, spoken out against violence of hip hop artists. I've not seen anything by Shaprton either way with regard to the women-hating and homophobic lyrics in much of rap & hip hop music. But he's not been reluctant to criticize blacks for their own behaviors.
 
65Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 15:57
I've not seen Sharpton speak on any lyrical content in rap music at all.
 
66walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 16:23
Sorry, two days old, but I've been swamped...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 10, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
Trash Talk Radio
By GWEN IFILL
Washington


LET’S say a word about the girls. The young women with the musical names. Kia and Epiphanny and Matee and Essence. Katie and Dee Dee and Rashidat and Myia and Brittany and Heather.

The Scarlet Knights of Rutgers University had an improbable season, dropping four of their first seven games, yet ending up in the N.C.A.A. women’s basketball championship game. None of them were seniors. Five were freshmen.

In the end, they were stopped only by Tennessee’s Lady Vols, who clinched their seventh national championship by ending Rutgers’ Cinderella run last week, 59-46. That’s the kind of story we love, right? A bunch of teenagers from Newark, Cincinnati, Brooklyn and, yes, Ogden, Utah, defying expectations. It’s what explodes so many March Madness office pools.

But not, apparently, for the girls. For all their grit, hard work and courage, the Rutgers girls got branded “nappy-headed ho’s” — a shockingly concise sexual and racial insult, tossed out in a volley of male camaraderie by a group of amused, middle-aged white men. The “joke” — as delivered and later recanted — by the radio and television personality Don Imus failed one big test: it was not funny.

The serial apologies of Mr. Imus, who was suspended yesterday by both NBC News and CBS Radio for his remarks, have failed another test. The sincerity seems forced and suspect because he’s done some version of this several times before.

I know, because he apparently did it to me.

I was covering the White House for this newspaper in 1993, when Mr. Imus’s producer began calling to invite me on his radio program. I didn’t return his calls. I had my hands plenty full covering Bill Clinton.

Soon enough, the phone calls stopped. Then quizzical colleagues began asking me why Don Imus seemed to have a problem with me. I had no idea what they were talking about because I never listened to the program.

It was not until five years later, when Mr. Imus and I were both working under the NBC News umbrella — his show was being simulcast on MSNBC; I was a Capitol Hill correspondent for the network — that I discovered why people were asking those questions. It took Lars-Erik Nelson, a columnist for The New York Daily News, to finally explain what no one else had wanted to repeat.

“Isn’t The Times wonderful,” Mr. Nelson quoted Mr. Imus as saying on the radio. “It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House.”

I was taken aback but not outraged. I’d certainly been called worse and indeed jumped at the chance to use the old insult to explain to my NBC bosses why I did not want to appear on the Imus show.

I haven’t talked about this much. I’m a big girl. I have a platform. I have a voice. I’ve been working in journalism long enough that there is little danger that a radio D.J.’s juvenile slap will define or scar me. Yesterday, he began telling people he never actually called me a cleaning lady. Whatever. This is not about me.

It is about the Rutgers Scarlet Knights. That game had to be the biggest moment of their lives, and the outcome the biggest disappointment. They are not old enough, or established enough, to have built up the sort of carapace many women I know — black women in particular — develop to guard themselves against casual insult.

Why do my journalistic colleagues appear on Mr. Imus’s program? That’s for them to defend, and others to argue about. I certainly don’t know any black journalists who will. To his credit, Mr. Imus told the Rev. Al Sharpton yesterday he realizes that, this time, he went way too far.

Yes, he did. Every time a young black girl shyly approaches me for an autograph or writes or calls or stops me on the street to ask how she can become a journalist, I feel an enormous responsibility. It’s more than simply being a role model. I know I have to be a voice for them as well.

So here’s what this voice has to say for people who cannot grasp the notion of picking on people their own size: This country will only flourish once we consistently learn to applaud and encourage the young people who have to work harder just to achieve balance on the unequal playing field.

Let’s see if we can manage to build them up and reward them, rather than opting for the cheapest, easiest, most despicable shots.

Gwen Ifill is a senior correspondent for “The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer” and the moderator of “Washington Week.”
 
67walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 16:30
April 12, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist
Paying the Price
By BOB HERBERT


You knew something was up early in the day. As soon as I told executives at MSNBC that I was going to write about the “60 Minutes” piece, which was already in pretty wide circulation, they began acting very weird. We’ll get back to you, they said.

In a “60 Minutes” interview with Don Imus broadcast in July 1998, Mike Wallace said of the “Imus in the Morning” program, “It’s dirty and sometimes racist.”

Mr. Imus then said: “Give me an example. Give me one example of one racist incident.” To which Mr. Wallace replied, “You told Tom Anderson, the producer, in your car, coming home, that Bernard McGuirk is there to do nigger jokes.”

Mr. Imus said, “Well, I’ve nev — I never use that word.”

Mr. Wallace then turned to Mr. Anderson, his producer. “Tom,” he said.

“I’m right here,” said Mr. Anderson.

Mr. Imus then said to Mr. Anderson, “Did I use that word?”

Mr. Anderson said, “I recall you using that word.”

“Oh, O.K.,” said Mr. Imus. “Well, then I used that word. But I mean — of course, that was an off-the-record conversation. But ——”

“The hell it was,” said Mr. Wallace.

The transcript was pure poison. A source very close to Don Imus told me last night, “They did not want to wait for your piece to come out.”

For MSNBC, Mr. Imus’s “nappy-headed ho’s” comment about the Rutgers women’s basketball team was bad enough. Putting the word “nigger” into the so-called I-man’s mouth was beyond the pale.

The roof was caving in on Mr. Imus. More advertisers were pulling the plug. And Bruce Gordon, a member of the CBS Corp. board of directors and former head of the N.A.A.C.P., said publicly that Mr. Imus should be fired.

But some of the most telling and persuasive criticism came from an unlikely source — internally at the network that televised Mr. Imus’s program. Women, especially, were angry and upset. Powerful statements were made during in-house meetings by women at NBC and MSNBC — about how black women are devalued in this country, how they are demeaned by white men and black men.

White and black women spoke emotionally about the way black women are frequently trashed in the popular culture, especially in music, and about the way news outlets give far more attention to stories about white women in trouble.

Phil Griffin, a senior vice president at NBC News who oversaw the Imus show for MSNBC, told me yesterday, “It touched a huge nerve.”

Whether or not Mr. McGuirk was hired for the specific noxious purpose referred to in the “60 Minutes” interview, he has pretty much lived up to that job description. He’s a minstrel, a white man who has gleefully led the Imus pack into some of the most disgusting, degrading attempts at racial (not to mention sexist) humor that it’s possible to imagine.

Blacks were jigaboos, Sambos and Brilloheads. Women were bitches and, above all else, an endless variety of ever-ready sexual vessels, born to be degraded.

The question now is how long the “Imus in the Morning” radio show will last. Just last month, in a reference to a speech by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in Selma, Ala., Mr. McGuirk called Mrs. Clinton a bitch and predicted she would “have cornrows and gold teeth” by the time her presidential primary campaign against Senator Barack Obama is over.

Way back in 1994, a friend of mine, the late Lars-Erik Nelson, a terrific reporter and columnist at The Daily News and Newsday, mentioned an Imus segment that offered a “satirical” rap song that gave advice to President Clinton on what to do about Paula Jones: “Pimp-slap the ho.” Mr. Nelson also wrote that there was a song on the program dealing with Hillary Clinton’s menstrual cycle.

So this hateful garbage has been going on for a long, long time. There was nothing new about the tone or the intent of Mr. Imus’s “nappy-headed ho’s” comment. As Bryan Monroe, president of the National Association of Black Journalists, told me the other night, “It’s a long pattern of behavior, and at some point somebody has to say enough is enough.”

The crucial issue goes well beyond Don Imus’s pathetically infantile behavior. The real question is whether this controversy is loud enough to shock Americans at long last into the realization of just how profoundly racist and sexist the culture is.

It appears that on this issue the general public, and the women at Mr. Imus’s former network, are far ahead of the establishment figures, the politicians and the media biggies, who were always so anxious to appear on the show and to defend Mr. Imus.

That is a very good sign.
 
68walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 16:37
April 11, 2007, 5:42 pm
Imus in the Hornets’ Nest
Dick Cavett


Don Imus must feel as if he has been run over by a cement truck, which then reversed and backed over him.

It’s probably true that the women on the Rutgers basketball team are not Imus fans and, as he says, they probably didn’t know who he is. It would be interesting to know exactly how the ladies got the bad news. Did someone say, for example, “A broadcaster announced on the air that you have undesirable ethnic hairdos and that you are prostitutes”?

Imus claims he doesn’t know how this happened and brought the ceiling down on him. As one who has had many opportunities to misspeak and to offend — and has taken them — I know how he feels. Much of the show’s appeal has to do with the entertaining danger in watching Imus and his colleagues dance on “the line” and sometimes on either side of it. This time he stepped off the starboard side onto a hornets’ nest, to mix metaphors.

Is there not a sort of a conundrum in everyone’s agreeing that the words are horrible, and not fit to be broadcast or heard — and then hearing them re-aired every 20 minutes on most TV channels? Not even euphemizing the H-word. Some of the seeming astonishment expressed about how well-spoken, attractive, articulate and self-possessed the basketball players are — all true — at times bordered a bit uncomfortably on Obama’s being called (surprisingly?) “articulate” and “clean.”

Would a white team be surprisingly articulate?
I don’t know all the questions to be asked about this. Some of them would be: Who said the words? What was the context? How damaging were the words meant to be, and how damaging were they in fact? What is known of the speaker? Is he a racist? Does he discriminate against black people? Has he ever done anything good for them?
It has reminded me of a hilarious old black comic I saw once at the Apollo Theater — the best house for comedy. In style, he affected lack of education and worked in dialect. “White folks sometimes seem amazed to see us folks can stand up on our hind legs.” (Audience giggles.) “And SPEAK.” (Big laugh.) “Sometimes I think they gonna offer me a dog biscuit.” (Pandemonium.)

At such times as this, the camera-shy reverend Al Sharpton can be counted on to pop up, this time in Draconian mode. He wants Imus out, gone, the show canceled and Imus dead, professionally at least.

Hold on a minute, Your Amplitude.
Millions like this show. All kinds of people, from college professors to firemen to actors, writers and — I’m told even G.I.’s in beds who have survived both Iraq and Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

Nobody in his right mind defends what Imus said. Certainly not Imus. For decades, he has been an equal-opportunity offender. For many the combination of this style plus his contrasting high-quality guest list add up to the program’s quirky appeal. But it was inevitable that one day, as just happened, a land mine was stepped on by the risk-taking host. It shouldn’t be confused with Hiroshima.

Imus retooled his show and himself from an earlier persona, making it a program that welcomes a who’s who of guests. This very upgrading makes the blunder stand out in starker contrast than it would if his show were solely goofball, escapist entertainment.

I’ve noticed over the years that the hate-mail, get-’em-off-the-air crowd always tries to constitute itself as a pressure group that will “write to all your sponsors.” They want to not just get you off the air but also — to savor the full enjoyment — bring you to your knees financially. In rare cases where they have succeeded, the health of their target has been destroyed. This is what that old bag Lillian Hellmann did to Mary McCarthy.

But Imus, I’m sure, has a shekel or two stashed away in case he were bounced or just decided to chuck it. He is a reader and would not be at a loss to fill his new free hours.

What is Donald Imus really like? I appear on his show sometimes, but I don’t pretend to know what all is concealed by the mask he works behind as an entertainer. He appears to be white, gentile and a family man. He’s a skilled conversationalist, an experienced broadcaster, a wry humorist and, lest we forget, an authentic philanthropist.

In addition, he belongs to a few minorities himself. He is a blond, a genuine cowboy, a recognized bugler and one of three people in the media who pronounces both C’s in arctic.
The final irony of all this is that when the suffering is past, good is likely to come of it. But if you change, Donald, don’t throw away all of the old Imus. We don’t want you to come back as Pat Boone.
 
69Toral
      ID: 52621719
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:01
CBS fires Imus.
 
70katietx
      ID: 3810431417
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:17
I’ve noticed over the years that the hate-mail, get-’em-off-the-air crowd always tries to constitute itself as a pressure group that will “write to all your sponsors.” They want to not just get you off the air but also — to savor the full enjoyment — bring you to your knees financially. In rare cases where they have succeeded, the health of their target has been destroyed. This is what that old bag Lillian Hellmann did to Mary McCarthy.

Probably the truest statement to come out of all this crap.
 
71Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:33
I fired CBS a long long time ago.
 
72Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:35
And Mike Wallace calling any other show dirty...that's rich. His was the most dangerous, life destroying, demagoguing, half-truth laden excersize in Orwellian zeitgeist manipulation going.
 
73Tree
      ID: 38391215
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:41
thank god.

keep 'em coming Baldwin. that is fantastic stuff, and with Jag having already jumped the shark, we look to you for silly, absurd, ridiculous, over-the-top nonsense.

 
74Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:43
Baldwin one day you'll have to explain to me how these non-governmental institutions such as anti-Imus protests and calls for boycotts and CBS News are "Orwellian".
 
75sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 17:43
...Orwellian zeitgeist...

theres that long favored term/phrase again. Good to know you havent lost that predictable flair Baldwin.
 
76Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 18:43
Sounds like Baldwin's word-a-day calendar from WorldNetDaily fell apart on him...
 
77Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 18:52
It is sad to see so many who believe themselves political cognoscenti [and may even be so, relatively speaking to the general public] don't even understand that thot policing and speech codes are Orwellian.
 
79Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 19:44
I get the speech stuff but your mythical zeitgeist bugaboo is hardly big brother.

And I fail to see how this is any example of thought-policing.

Weak.
 
80Kyle
      Donor
      ID: 052753312
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 20:11
Triscadecaphobia. I can throw out big words I don't understand too! :)
 
81Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 20:13
It is sad that Baldwin doesn't see the difference between the government doing the policing and the free market doing it.
 
82Tree
      ID: 583101219
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 21:35
did you guys know that Mike Wallace was on the grassy knoll?

also, he leaked Valerie Plame's name to Scooter Libby, after Snuffleupagus told him during a meal of octopus ears and chicken lips.
 
83Jag
      ID: 14849321
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:23
Does anyone besides white males ever get fired for stupid comments? Al Sharpton tried to create a race riot over a fake rape and the media still bends over backwards to kiss his tremendously large brown butt.
 
84Mark L
      Leader
      ID: 03601149
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:29
Tim Hardaway lost a bunch of endorsements and Micheal Ray
Richardson didn't get his coaching contract renewed. Just a couple
off the top of my head.
 
85Jag
      ID: 14849321
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:46
What the hell was Hardaway endorsing, Depends diapers or Viagra? I didn't know Mickey even had a job.
 
86Tree
      ID: 593591219
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 22:53
you really are a teenager, aren't you? you sure come across as one - a racist one at that.

Hardaway is barely 40. still a young man.

he was dismissed by the NBA from his activities at All-Star weekend for his comments, and he was FIRED from his job with the Indiana Alley Cats of the CBA as well, because of the comments he made.

Richardson coaches the Albany team in the CBA. he was suspended from the Championship Series for his anti-semitic comments.

the Richardson situation is interesting, because it actually looks like he was set up a bit, and even David Stern came to his defense.
 
87Pancho Villa
      ID: 42231410
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:02
Then there's the guy on Grey's Anatomy.
 
88Jag
      ID: 14849321
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:19
So unless you are a self-loathing white male and agree everyone should be lynched if they ever make comment about another race, religion or sexual persuasion, you are a racist. Of course, Christians and Caucasians are exempt from this rule. To even debate there may be a double standard makes someone a racist in your eyes. I am partially black (I have bright white skin, but I am hung like a horse and have alot rhythm) and as a brother I was offended by Imus remarks, now let me get back to my Fiddy CD.

Bright and early in the mornin' come up short with my money
And for sure I'll kick your ass bitch (what you say)
(You should be here) You fukin' with them other niggaz
But you know you love the niggaz, switch to a pimp bitch (BITCH)
(You should be here) You fit into my stable of hoes
You from Atlanta, I'm from New York, but I'm "throwin them bows"
(You should be here) Right here next to me
Girl I know you tired of fukin' for free (WOO, Sing along)
 
89Tree
      ID: 593591219
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:22
holy $hit Jag, everytime i think you hit rock bottom, you manage to sink even further.

post 88 was one of the most offensive posts i have ever seen in this forum.

you're either a pretty lousy human, or a pretty damned good parody.
 
90Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:23
When you're 12 ....
 
91Jag
      ID: 14849321
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:40
What part offended you Tree? I know you won't say the Fiddy song, because those are not my words, is it the fact I dare joke about being black. Get off your high horse, until you demonize the rappers for true misogyny and racism, you are a walking contradiction.
 
92Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:48
ROFL! Until tree criticizes rappers, he shouldn't critize racists, is that right?

And you're part in all this? Another senior-level psychology paper?
 
93Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:52
Actually I don't think that's remotely funny, PD.

Sharpton, Jesse or Tree, why should any of them get away with phony selective outrage?
 
94Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:55
You don't think Jag being a pretend racist and then pretending to be outraged that Tree critized him on it is funny? Maybe not. But I know pretend outrage. I'm a Democrat, remember.

pd
 
95Perm Dude
      ID: 48329127
      Thu, Apr 12, 2007, 23:56
And, to be blunt, what has anyone here on this forum done about rap lyrics? Written to an editor? Emailed a rap record label? Talked to a black person listening to rap?
 
96Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 00:06
More people who aren't white males fired for stupid comments:

Marge Schott
Ann Coulter
Asian Week columnist Kenneth Eng
NYC hip hop radio DJ, DJ Star
 
97sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 00:08
cant count AC MITH. She also GETS job, cause of her stupid comments. She's a wash.
 
98Baldwin
      ID: 3503618
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 00:28
#94

On second thot, that's growing on me. Nice couple of posts, PD.
 
99Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 08:17
Perhaps the selective outrage charge got to Sharpton
"We will not stop until we make it clear that no one can denigrate based on sex," said Sharpton, after the CBS announcement. "We need to open up the media world. There are far too many media companies where there are far too much exclusion of women and people of color... We don't have to be misogynist and racists to be creative in this country."

Sharpton said he was planning a rally for Saturday, adding that he would sooner go to jail than back down from an issue he felt passionately about.

"We are going to be looking around the television and music industry; there is no one that gets a pass here," Sharpton continued. "Women should be respected, blacks should be respected, and whites need to be respected."
Good for him. And for the community he claims to serve. It will show considerable growth from Sharpton if he makes good on that. I'm sure he knows that such an effort, if carried out seriously, will marginalize him in the eyes of many within the community that he depends on to remain in the spotlight.
 
100Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 08:40
because those are not my words, is it the fact I dare joke about being black. Get off your high horse, until you demonize the rappers for true misogyny and racism, you are a walking contradiction.

1. i'm offended because of your "hung like a horse and have alot rhythm" comment. that's stereotyping at its absolute worst, and quite frankly, crosses the border from stereotype into out and out racism.

2. i do believe i've said quite clearly on this board that i think the misogynistic lyrics in hip hop (and other forms of music) have gone overboard, not to mention the usage of the N-Word. if i haven't said it before here, i'm saying it now.

3. i'm also a hip hop fan, although my tastes run less toward the "bitches and ho's" gangsta rap style, and more toward what i call "backpacker" rap, which encompasses the pissed off/emoish lyrics of groups like Atmosphere to the political rantings of Sage Francis.

and the reason i don't like the whole gangsta rap thing? because to me it gets away from what hip hop was originally about - having good times and/or bettering your community, ala groups like Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash, et al.

my outrage has hardly been selective. hell, if your ignorant ass had bothered to read this entire thread - post 17, because i know you're incapable of research - i clearly said that the words from the rap community concerns me.

and that goes double for you Baldwin - now it's gotten to the point where you take someone like Jag on his word, instead of reading the thread. that's pathetic, and i don't think there's a person on this board who isn't somewhat stunned by how far you've fallen in your efforts here.
 
101walk
      ID: 15350139
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 15:55
Why Imus Had to Go
By Eugene Robinson
Friday, April 13, 2007


Now that the networks have pulled the plug on Don Imus, let's have no hyperventilation to the effect that the aging shock jock's fall from undeserved grace raises some important question about just who in our society is permitted to say just what. Wherever "the line" delineating acceptable discourse might be, calling those young women from Rutgers University "nappy-headed hos" is miles on the other side.

Especially for a 67-year-old white man with a long history of racist, sexist and homophobic remarks.

For young black hip-hop artists to use such language to demean black women is similarly deplorable -- and, I would argue, even more damaging. But come on, people, don't deceive yourselves that it's precisely the same thing. Don't pretend that 388 years of history -- since the first shackled African slaves arrived at Jamestown -- never happened. The First Amendment notwithstanding, it has always been the case that some speech has been off-limits to some people. I remember a time when black people couldn't say "I'd like to vote, please." Now, white people can't say "nappy-headed hos." You'll survive.

While we're at the business of blunt truth, do the big-time media luminaries who so often graced Imus's show have some explaining to do? You bet, and so do the parent news organizations, including my own, that allowed their journalists to go on a broadcast that routinely crossed the aforementioned line. All these trained observers couldn't have failed to notice Imus's well-practiced modus operandi. "He never said anything bad while I was on" doesn't cut it as a defense.

Nor is there much exculpatory power in Imus's defense of himself, which can be paraphrased as "I'm not a racist, I just keep saying racist things." What characteristics, do you suppose, could possibly identify a person who was indeed a racist? You think maybe that saying racist things might be a fairly reliable clue?

One of the most interesting things about the Imus meltdown is how MSNBC and its parent company, NBC Universal, moved from sluggish inaction to ordering a two-week suspension to bidding Imus, his cowboy hat and his unfunny entourage an abrupt adios. A day later, CBS Radio followed suit and canceled Imus.

The pressure applied by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and other activists certainly got NBC and CBS's attention, and the news conference held by the offended Rutgers team was devastating. News stories citing Imus's past transgressions were embarrassing. And the withdrawal of Imus's biggest advertisers -- General Motors, GlaxoSmithKline, American Express, Ditech.com, Procter & Gamble, Staples, Sprint Nextel -- removed any financial incentive for MSNBC to keep the show on the air.

It would be logical to conclude that money talked and therefore Imus walked. But I tend to believe NBC News President Steve Capus when he says that the biggest factor was the internal reaction from NBC News employees, who told him in no uncertain terms that enough was enough.

Two of the network's on-air stars -- "Today" weatherman Al Roker and NBC correspondent Ron Allen -- authored strong anti-Imus posts on NBC blogs. Producers of NBC and MSNBC news shows gave the controversy nonstop coverage. Meanwhile, Capus was hearing from dozens of NBC employees who worried about what continued association with Imus would do to the network's reputation. Among them were women and minorities who told Capus they felt the sting of Imus's attacks personally.

Which is a sign of how the world has changed.

Four decades ago, when Imus started his long and lucrative radio career, there were few women and minorities at NBC in a position to influence the company's decision on an issue like this one. Take it another step: There were few women and minorities in positions of authority at the firms that advertised on Imus's show.

In think tanks and on college campuses, intellectuals still argue about diversity, but in corporate America the issue is settled: Diversity is a fact of today's world. In the nation's two most populous states, California and Texas, minorities already form a majority. Companies realize they cannot survive, let alone thrive, without courting diversity among their employees and their customers. You certainly can't run a television network these days without taking diversity into account.

Imus's advertisers couldn't afford to be associated with racist, misogynistic views, and neither could NBC. This doesn't portend any sort of chilling effect on free speech, as some have suggested. It doesn't mean that white males are being relegated to the dustbin of history. Last time I checked, guys, you still ran most of the world. You just have to be a bit nicer these days, and you have to share.
 
102Seattle Zen
      ID: 46315247
      Fri, Apr 13, 2007, 20:28
 
103Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 12:40
After Imus storm, rap at the fore
 
104boikin
      ID: 59831214
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 12:52
I am not sure if anyone noticed this or allready mentioned it but i was wathing the NBC dateline last night on Imus situation and it felt like to me that the whole time NBC was just patting itself on the back for firing him. I am not sure if he should have been fired or not but somehow it really felt wrong to me that NBC would use the situation to both make it self some money and try and look good at the same time. If Imus had been such a bad guy in the past, why had they not fired him sooner?
 
105Boxman
      ID: 251142612
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 13:05
Well said boikin. Further, Sharpton is a Reverand. At least that's his title. Isn't he required to forgive as part of Christian doctrine? Instead he goes for Imus' head.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
 
106Perm Dude
      ID: 35342167
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 13:08
You can forgive someone for saying something without saying they should continue to have the same job.

Maybe you're not a Christian and aren't altogether familiar with the Christian concept of forgiveness,
 
107Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 13:18
Let me know when you forgive Senator Byrd.
 
108Boxman
      ID: 251142612
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 13:29
Let me know when you forgive Senator Byrd.

Did Sharpton run him out of town? And why not?
 
109Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Apr 16, 2007, 13:33
I don't follow your point. Do you claim to have run Robert Byrd out of town?
 
110Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 10:14
Stanley Crouch.
 
111Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 11:29
am i missing something, or did Imus make us so not care about this stuff, that Rush's Barack the Magic Negro song is getting no play in the media???!?!
 
112Baldwin
      ID: 14358177
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 12:12
The recent first round TE drafted by the Bears is getting raked over the coals for participating in a freshmen college prank of a group athletic dorm rap song done while @ 17 years old.

Again this is terrorism directed at anyone in the public eye meant to terrorize the rest of the public into submitting to PC speech and thot policing.

 
113Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 12:23
Are you saying Olsen has been labled a racist over that thing?
 
114Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 13:19
The recent first round TE drafted by the Bears is getting raked over the coals

riiiight. it's been mentioned in a few places, but for the most part, it's a non-story. a reporter from the Sun-Times is attempting to make a big deal about it, but it's such a minor thing that teams didn't even ask him about it at the Combine.

in fact, until your post, it was the first i'd heard of it.
 
115Perm Dude
      ID: 3844717
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 13:22
first I've heard of it.

Am I doing the math right--just drafted, and he participated in this as a freshman (just a few years ago)? It has been a long time since I was a freshman, but not this guy.
 
116Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, May 01, 2007, 14:36
He skipped his senoir year.

I did a google news search and skimmed the first 15 articles or so to see what B was talking about. Perhaps half mentioned the issue. Most were not very disparaging. 1 or 2 were scathing.

Given the recent focus on the off the field indiscretions of pro athletes I don't think it a topic unworthy of some attention. Most of the items that included the issue were repeats of the same article, which devoted perhaps 1/3 of it's text to say the following:
The former Miami tight end admits to one rather minor transgression, a rap song he and friends at school did three years ago which explicitly glorified his nocturnal conquests. Olsen, under the name "G-Reg," and "Seventh Floor Crew" became a bit notorious for the recording which was released to the Internet.

"That was something that was a long time ago, back in my freshman year," Olsen said. "Nothing really ever came of it.

"It was a stupid thing back in college that happened and we kind of all moved on from that."

Olsen wasn't even grilled by teams on the topic at the combine.

Beyond that, Olsen is pure football, a speed tight end who can play like a wide receiver. And in an era when character issues concern every NFL team, the Bears seem to have taken a safe route by bringing in a coach's son.

Maybe they're beating him up on the local radio.
 
117katietx
      ID: 243562819
      Thu, May 03, 2007, 09:09
Imus not going quietly

video story from CNN
 
118Building 7
      Sustainer
      ID: 171572711
      Fri, May 04, 2007, 13:12
link

A lawyer for Don Imus said Friday that the former radio host's bosses could have edited the on-air comments that got him fired—and the fact that they didn't meant they saw his remarks as routine for his often provocative show.
CBS Radio and MSNBC had delay buttons, but didn't use them when Imus made racist and sexist comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team, lawyer Martin Garbus said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

"That means CBS and MSNBC both knew the language that was going out, and both knew the language complied with (Imus') contract. ... It was consistent with many of the things he had done," Garbus said.

CBS Radio owns Imus' former home radio station, WFAN-AM, and MSNBC televised his show.

Spokeswomen for CBS Radio and MSNBC had no immediate comment on Garbus' comments early Friday.


He's sueing and he's going to win a lot of money in my opinion.
 
119Perm Dude
      ID: 47415248
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 11:22
Mets star prospect a mini-Imus himself
 
120sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 11:30
"Do I feel like he should watch what he says because he's in the public eye? Yeah, but everything he's doing is positive," Manny D said. "He's not out there shooting people or shooting up dope. How can you fault somebody for something they say?"

One Mets player, speaking anonymously before last night's game at Shea, wasn't surprised by Milledge's lyrics. "Language like that in a rap song? Shocking!" the player said sarcastically.

Milledge was expelled from Northside Christian School in 2003 for having sex with a 15-year-old girlfriend and agreed to enroll in a juvenile arbitration program to avoid prosecution. Soon after the Mets drafted Milledge in 2003, the Daily News reported that he had been accused of having consensual sex with 12 and 13-year-old girls as well, which led to his expulsion from school.


Odd. I dont recall Imus ever shooting anyone, nor do I recall him having sex with 13 yr old girls. Yet, we "...fault somebody for something they say.", virtually anytime its a white speaker it seems.
 
121Tree
      ID: 29082512
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 11:57
oh Jesus f*ck.

seriously - this is PC run amuck. i'm not a big fan of the N-word, but if someone wants to use it, by all means, welcome to Freedom of Speech.

this is insane.
 
122Perm Dude
      ID: 47415248
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 12:00
That was my first thought as well. But Comrie's comment is important, I think: "That's not how he wants his mother or sister treated. It's just ridiculous."

Milledge should not use the language because it simply isn't right to do so. If it is him employer who tells him so that's fine in my book. Milledge has a contract which allows them to do so.
 
123sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 12:09
I agree with your sentiment Tree, 100%. My comment, was in response to Milledges buddy asking the question how it is we can fault someone for what they say. IF we are going to fire white guys over what they say (use of racially derog terms), then we HAVE to hold racial minorities to the same standard. Anything else, IS being racist.
 
124Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 12:48
welcome to Freedom of Speech.

this is insane.


No one has infringed on Milledge's freedom of speech.

My comment, was in response to Milledges buddy asking the question how it is we can fault someone for what they say.

Your comment was about firing people. Manny D's comment was about faulting people for what they say. He's clearly an imbecile. "How can you fault somebody for something they say?" Isn't that exactly what he's doing by questioning those who have said they don't like the lyrics?

IF we are going to fire white guys over what they say...

We haven't fired anyone for anything. The NY Mets don't have any obligation to reflect the standards and policies of CBS or MSNBC or anyone else.

Milledge is an idiot, too. He's an employee of an organization that has done an awful lot more for him than he has for them to date. The Mets took a chance on him despite his questionable history and gave him an opportunity to make good on their investment and develop it into a life as one of the most priveledged humans on the planet. You think they never had a talk with him about how they expect him to represent the organization?
 
125sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 12:50
"we" MITH, refers to the generic public comprising the US of A. And "we" most certainly did fire Don Imus. For what? For what he said. Yet a black man, professes that you cannot hold what another black man says, against him. So my question is, how is that it gets held against a white man?
 
126Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 13:10
The "we" that had a say in how CBS and MSNBC treated the Imus situation has much less clout with how the Mets handle their business.

Further, Imus is a much more prominant public figure. "We" (most Americans over a certain age) know who Imus is. Milledge isn't nearly as well known. He has appeard in less than 60 MLB games in his life. For the most part, "we" have never heard of this guy.

Of course I don't deny the double standard you're referring to. But you're grossly oversimplifying the issue.
 
127sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 13:20
OK MITH, let me break it down...

if "WE" as a society, are going to hold a white DJ to a given public speaking standard, then it only follows that "we" as a society should be holding black rappers, indian poets, andean authors, etc etc...to that same standard.
 
128Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 13:37
Well the standard Imus was held to was that a certain section of the public decided it had enough after a nationally known radio and TV host used his media to render a highly undeserved off-color remark that he made regarding a few individuals received heavy news coveredge, following decades of frequent similar off-color remaks.

Is there a double standard? Of course there is. A minority in the same situation is less likely to lose his/her job. The social reasons for it are not hard to see and both minority and majority share in the blame.

But you're grossly twisting and simplifying the issue or just ignorant of what its about if you think the standard set by the Imus firing dictates that every person who works for any company who uses that language in public should now be fired.

if "WE" as a society, are going to hold a white DJ to a given public speaking standard, then it only follows that "we" as a society should be holding black rappers, indian poets, andean authors, etc etc...to that same standard.

I don't agree. But more to the point, the public doesn't have the power to sway Milledge's employer in the same way that it did to sway Imus'.
 
129sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 14:05
Thats where we have a fundamental difference of opinion then MITH. I see the DJ as a public speaker and a recording artist/professional athlete as a public figure. If we chastise and censure the one for saying/doing something, then if the only difference between that one and another who we allow to do/say the same thing is skin color...then that to me, is the very definition of racism.
 
130Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 14:40
If we chastise and censure the one for saying/doing something, then if the only difference between that one and another who we allow to do/say the same thing is skin color...

That isn't the only difference.

First, they are very differnt kinds of public figures.

Second, Imus used media owned by his employers to broadcast his remarks. Milledge uses media he owns (his own record label) to present his remarks to the public. The cases are very different.

And the most relevent difference that you have ignored twice now is that "the public" has much less say over Milledge's employers as a music producer and athlete than it does over Imus' employers as media talent.

CBS and MSNBC fired Imus because the public generated a certain amount of pressure. The Mets likely won't fire Milledge because (among other reasons) the same kind of pressure cannot be generated from the public over Milledge. This is because a) he is far less prominant than Imus and b) Sports franchises aren't subject to that type of pressure nearly as much as media companies are.
 
131sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 14:56
as you continue to ignore or dont see my POV...

I dont believe ones employer or job title, should dictate your individual rights/liberties. Nor do I think should your race. I dont care what kind of pressure can/cant be applied. "Rights", to be rights, have to apply to all. Not a select group. When they apply to a select group, they are no longer rights, but are privileges. THAT, is the only difference. A black man in this nation, enjys privileges whwich a white man does not, whiwch an Asian does not, which a Latino does not. That IMHO, is racist.
 
132Perm Dude
      ID: 47415248
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:01
They not only should, but you would expect them to.

When Milledge signs a contract which limits his free speech, he's bound by that contract (all MLB contracts contain a "morals clause"). You might not like it, but you didn't sign it--he did.

pd
 
133Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:20
as you continue to ignore or dont see my POV...

Actually I'm pretty sure that I've responded to every point you've made. I'v shown where I disagree with you and I've been courteous enough to thoroughly explain why.

I dont believe ones employer or job title, should dictate your individual rights/liberties

Me either, if you mean legally. Neither Imus' nor Milledge's rights and liberties have been so dictated. But an employer reserves every right to establish its own standards for conduct outside the workplace and decide for itself how much it will allow itself to be subject to public scrutiny. Believe it or not, Sarge, racists have the same right to employment in America that the rest of us have.

THAT, is the only difference. A black man in this nation, enjys privileges whwich a white man does not, whiwch an Asian does not, which a Latino does not.

Again, I don't deny the double standard. Whites enjoy priveledges that the minorities don't, too. Latinos and Asians, not so much.

But you're applying that double standard as the sole reason for the difference in treatment between Imus and Milledge and its not the sole reason. It isn't even one of the primary ones.

That IMHO, is racist.

I guess, in one way or another. Personally, I think its a lot easier for whites to deal with racism in that form than it is for blacks and other minorities to deal with issues the realted to obtaining education, employment and housing that they face. Maybe you disagree.
 
134Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:24
PD

I don't know what post 132 refers to.
 
135sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:34
132 refers to:

The Mets likely won't fire Milledge because (among other reasons) the same kind of pressure cannot be generated from the public over Milledge.

same clause MLB is using to block Rose from the HoF.
 
136Perm Dude
      ID: 47415248
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:34
It refers to sarge's point:

I dont believe ones employer or job title, should dictate your individual rights/liberties.
 
137sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 15:49
I was looking at your first line PD...the "They not only should but you would expect them to."
 
138Perm Dude
      ID: 47415248
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 16:38
Of course. Many employees that are under contracts have morals clauses.
 
139katietx
      ID: 11430613
      Thu, May 24, 2007, 18:00
Oddly enough, the place I will be working does not have a morals clause, which is strange for such a large organization. The only caveat is that there can be no tattoos showing on the arms, neck or face-legs are fine, but most everyone wears long pants.

Other than that, the dress code is even very lax, except everyone wears the same type of shirt. That's a good thing! Saves on the clothes. Again, odd for a non-retail business.
 
140Baldwin
      ID: 4610171922
      Sun, Jan 13, 2008, 10:28
Imus on Larry King's show prior to the firestorm: [Imus' wife editted out-B]

KING: What about Obama?

DON IMUS: Barack Obama? Yes, I do. What's not to like about him? An elegant guy.

KING: And of course, Hillary.

DON IMUS: Is Satan.

KING: Satan?

DON IMUS: Just a horrendous -- no.

DON IMUS: She's Satan, Larry. She's the devil.

KING: Could she win?

DON IMUS: No. I mean, all of my friends in New York will vote for her. And my other friends in L.A. will vote for her. But Americans, I mean, no. She's angry and she's evil.


It is sad that Baldwin doesn't see the difference between the government doing the policing and the free market doing it. - PD


Hillary is just Nixon only not just with a little enemy list but a computer full of FBI enemies' dirty laundry files and a trail of dead and broken bodies.

She created 'Media Matters' which took Imus down and she recently took credit for creating media matters.

Imus was taken out by Nixon ver.2 because she needed this maverick NY liberal taken out of her path to the WH.

The timing was also perfect for Ms Machiavelli because satelite radio, Imus' most likely hills of refuge and last resort, was coming up before goverment review over a merger.

Think of this as the first shot in the planned campaign to muzzle ALL talk radio as soon as they get a Dem in the WH thru presidential reinstatement of the misnamed 'Fairness Doctrine".

Plenty of google material there for you, folks.


This has everything to do with orwellian thot/speech control and government restriction. Further this has nothing to do with the free market. The free market loves Imus. He's back on and his ratings will always be better than Air America which Clear Channel rescued and put on artificial resperation as ammunition in preparation for the coming government 'Fairness Doctrine' pogrom.
 
141Perm Dude
      ID: 310141219
      Sun, Jan 13, 2008, 16:54
Well, no, she didn't create Media Matters. I find it interesting that you take that at face value because it advances what is otherwise a fatally-flawed argument, but anything else she says is, by definition wrong and/or evil. Clinton either mispoke or her words were wrenched out of context. Not a surprise, coming from Limbaugh, of course. Limbaugh would never do either when it came to Hillary Clinton, right?

Imus was taken down because many in the free market punished him for a thoughtless (at best) comment. The government didn't take him down. And that doesn't change if Clinton gets elected.

You're Michael Moore-like in your timeline. For you the facts don't seems to matter so long as the correct mindset is projected.

And your "government will take away all freedoms!!!" rap is so 2004, Baldwin. And talk radio? Did I miss the part when Bill Clinton got rid of talk radio when he was in office? And his wife, if elected, would do that because...?

 
142walk
      ID: 470151319
      Sun, Jan 13, 2008, 20:18
Hillary is Nixon? It makes me think of how cool it would be if, like after the election, and she like won, she all of a sudden said to the camera, "wait, a minute, I have something to show you," and she pulled off her Hillary face and underneath she was really Nixon. Just thinking.
 
143 Brady
      ID: 30311414
      Mon, Jan 14, 2008, 15:31
Jackson and Sharpton are such mountebanks,I'm
surprised anyone,especially the African-Americans
they profess to lead,gives them even cursory at-
tention.Then again,more blacks are becoming wise
to them,so I don't know how much longer they can
command an audience.
 
144Boldwin
      ID: 180561421
      Mon, Jan 14, 2008, 23:22
Well, no, she didn't create Media Matters. - PD

Watch Hillary take credit for creating 'Media Matters'.

Do you actually believe you can pull off an 'if Hillary said it she was lieing' defense?

Talk about fatally flawed...
 
145Boldwin
      ID: 180561421
      Tue, Jan 15, 2008, 10:12
Fleshing out Hillary's boast about creating 'Media Matters' in great detail.
So far, then, we know for certain that Hillary Clinton loathes Don Imus, and that Media Matters was actively engaged in trying to topple the broadcaster’s career, as evidenced by the assignment of Mr. Chiachiere to monitor every minute of Imus’ program. But how do we know there is a connection between Hillary’s antipathy for Imus and the deadly blow that Media Matters dealt to his radio program?

We know because Media Matters’ links to Hillary are at once intimate and multitudinous, and the organization’s devotion to her is nothing short of profound. In 1996 (eight years before Media Matters’ creation), the then-conservative David Brock was commissioned (with a $1 million advance) by the Simon & Schuster subsidiary Free Press to write a hard-hitting expose of Hillary. But the book, completed in 1997, turned out to be nothing more than a tepid, distinctly sympathetic account of the former First Lady’s life. That same year (1997), Brock publicly announced his political epiphany, unequivocally recanting his previous negative writings about the Clintons and embracing the liberal/Left cause. During this period, Brock developed a close relationship with Neel Lattimore, Senator Clinton’s openly gay press secretary and close confidante. Brock would eventually hire Lattimore as a director of “special projects” for Media Matters.

Brock’s affinity for Mrs. Clinton grew over time, and vice versa. According to Glenn Thrush of Newsday, Hillary “advised Brock on creating” Media Matters in 2004, “encouraging the creation of a liberal equivalent of the Media Research Center, a conservative group that has aggravated Democrats for decades.” Thrush reports that Hillary still “chats with [Brock] occasionally and thinks he provides a valuable service . . .” “For her part,” Thrush adds, “Clinton’s extended family of contributors, consultants and friends has played a pivotal role in helping Media Matters grow from a $3.5 million start-up in 2004 to its current $8.5 million budget.”

Media Matters, Hillary, and the Center for American Progress

Media Matters and Hillary Clinton are further linked by their respective relationships with three of the most influential leftist operatives in the world—George Soros, Morton Halperin, and John Podesta. All three of these men are intimately involved with a vital think tank called the Center for American Progress (CAP)—which, according to Cybercast News Service’s research, “was instrumental in getting Brock’s media group off the ground”; which helped launch Media Matters on May 3, 2004; and which maintains a tight bond with Brock’s organization to this day.

Soros and Halperin first proposed CAP’s creation in 2002 to promote generally the cause of the Left and the Democratic Party. But CAP’s overarching objective is considerably more specific than that: As an inside source told reporter Christian Bourge of United Press International, CAP is in fact “the official Hillary Clinton think tank.” Not long after its formal founding in the summer of 2003, Mrs. Clinton told reporter Robert Dreyfuss of The Nation: “We’ve had the challenge of filling a void on our side of the ledger for a long time, while the other side created an infrastructure that has come to dominate political discourse. The Center [for American Progress] is a welcome effort to fill that void.”

According to Dreyfuss, CAP bears the distinct “imprint of the Clintons.” “It’s not completely wrong to see it as a shadow government,” he wrote in February 2004, “a kind of Clinton White-House-in-exile—or a White House staff in readiness for President Hillary Clinton. Among senior staff and fellows at the center are several former Clinton-era officials, including Robert Boorstin, who was Clinton’s national security speechwriter; Gene Sperling, who headed Clinton’s National Economic Council and who is now affiliated with the DLC; and Matt Miller, senior adviser to Clinton’s Office of Management and Budget. The center’s first director of domestic policy was Neera Tanden, an aide to Senator Clinton, who has since returned to work for Hillary. And the center’s kickoff conference on national security in October, co-organized with The American Prospect and the Century Foundation, looked like a Clinton reunion, featuring Robert Rubin, Clinton’s Treasury Secretary; William Perry, his Defense Secretary; Sandy Berger, his National Security Adviser; Richard Holbrooke and Susan Rice, both Clinton-era Assistant Secretaries of State; Rodney Slater, his Transportation Secretary; and Carol Browner, his EPA Administrator, who serves on the center’s board of directors. . . . Hillary Clinton . . . was also there . . .”

CAP is heavily funded by the aforementioned billionaire financier George Soros, and in turn works closely with Media Matters to remove potential roadblocks (like Don Imus) from Hillary Clinton’s path to the White House.
 
146Boldwin
      ID: 180561421
      Tue, Jan 15, 2008, 10:14
Fleshing out Hillary's boast about creating 'Media Matters' in great detail.

 
147Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 11:05
Conservative thought police force Orwellian speech codes on the airwaves!
An organization called Firedavidletterman.com is calling for [David Letterman's] job. The group was started by New York state assemblyman Brian Colman (ph), documentarian John Ziegler. They're not just writing letters or blogging. They are going to picket the Ed Sullivan Theatre tomorrow.
Seriously, it's very interesting the similarities between this case and the Imus incident - right down to the selective outrage and hypocrisy of those supporting the victim.
 
148Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 14:30
Conservatives are honor bound to accept a double standard that always disadvantages them.

I see.
 
149Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 14:33
Hardly. Apparently holding conservatives to their own standard is something they just don't understand.
 
150Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 14:40
I don't see any double standard.

I see two highly similar cases right down to the refusal of the victims' supporters to accept the multiple apologies they demanded, even after the victims themselves had done so.
 
151Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 14:50
Duh...the difference is that Dave will not face any media firestorm and heeee won't lose his job.

Was that really so hard to figure out? You were blocking the obvious?

The media isn't outraged as they were in Imus' case. They are simply pointing out that people whose feelings don't matter to them one iota are upset about it.
 
152Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 14:58
Dave will not face any media firestorm

Nonsense. The only reason it isn't the biggest story of the day is that Tehran is on fire. He's already faced a media firestorm, and continues to deal with one.

Regarding his job, you may find this difficult to understand, but a figure like Letterman is a bit more entrenched and difficult to push out than one like Imus. The only reason Imus was fired was the impact the controversy had on NBC's and CBS' bottom lines. Letterman is a much bigger cash cow than Imus - that's what will save Letterman his job, not some your anti-conservative victimology fantasy.
 
153Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 15:11
Hannity last night:
The fire David Letterman movement is growing. Outraged citizens are now calling for the late-night talk show host to get booted off the air for his remarks that he made last week about Alaska governor Sarah Palin's teenage daughter and about the governor herself.

Now protesters will gather outside of Mr. Letterman's CBS studio tomorrow and make themselves heard.
I'm leaving work in a little while and heading to my second job across town (coincidentially, at the CBS Broadcast HQ) to cover a night shift there. I'll make a point to walk past the Ed Sullivan theatre and guage the crowd. My phone has what might be the poorest quality camera ever installed in a cell phone, but I'll see if I can get any useful shots.
 
154boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 16:05
this is getting silly...
 
155Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:02


Took this at a little after 4pm. There were maybe 3 dozen protestors. Probably 1 news camera for every 4 or 5 of them. The satellite truck you see the back of in the center-right part of the photo belongs to FOX News Channel. Parked on the other side of that was a microwave truck for local FOX WNYW. I was told another outlet had a truck nearby but I didn't see it. An awful lot of media for a very small turnout.
 
156Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:20
NY Daily News reports about 50 protestors.
 
157Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 18:15
MarketWatch
In what is shaping up to be one of the more effective boycott campaigns in years, advertisers are abandoning the "Glenn Beck" show on Fox News following the host's incendiary comments that President Barack Obama is a "racist" and has a "deep-seated hatred for white people."

Among the advertisers to pull spots from the popular cable talk show are Geico, owned by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway... Procter & Gamble... Sargento Cheese; and Progressive Insurance... according to the companies and Color of Change, one group that is organizing a campaign against the program.
 
158Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 19:22
P&G is huge. At one time they had the largest advertising budget of any US company. They've gotta still be up there quite a bit. And they are headquartered in conservative Cincinnati.
 
159Boldwin
      ID: 17481520
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 21:52
The thread title reminds me to ask you, PD, if you were one of the two or three people who put me on Obama's enemies list?
 
160Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 13:37
GMAC Financial Services joins the growing list of advertisers pulling their spots from Glenn Beck.
 
161sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 15:20
I think it's about time, people recognized that Glenn has both feet in his mouth about half the time.
 
162Boldwin
      ID: 24761720
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 21:20
You are a pod-person, Sarge. You are a brain-dead shuffling thug of intimidation.

Never a quality post from you.

Sure, how wonderful it would be if only one point of view were allowed on the airwaves.
 
163Razor
      ID: 14791320
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 21:33
Boldwin, this is a free market response. You have a problem with this?
 
164Boldwin
      ID: 24761720
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 21:48
I think this is a response from businesses cringing from too many past bad experiences with the Jesse Jackson hustle.
 
165Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:02
Advertisers who have pulled their spots or pledged no new advertising on Glenn Beck:

Airware Inc. (makers of Brez anti-snoring aids)
Allergan (maker of Restasis)
Ally Bank (a unit of GMAC Financial Services)
Ancestry.com
AT&T
Best Buy
Blaine Labs Inc.
Broadview Security
Campbell Soup Company
Clorox
ConAgra
CVS
Ditech
The Elations Company
Experian (creator of FreeCreditReport.com)
Farmers Insurance Group
GEICO
Johnson & Johnson
Lawyers.com
Lowes
Men’s Wearhouse
NutriSystem
Procter & Gamble
Progressive Insurance
RadioShack
Re-Bath
Roche
SC Johnson
Sanofi-Aventis
Sargento
Sprint
State Farm Insurance
Travelocity
The UPS Store
Verizon Wireless
Wal-Mart
 
166Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:03
Source
 
167Razor
      ID: 507101910
      Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:10
Calling the President a racist has consequences. Beck will gloat and pretend like everything is okay, but it may just be a matter of time.

Capitalism at its finest.
 
168boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:19
GMAC Financial Services joins the growing list of advertisers pulling their spots from Glenn Beck.

Isn't GMAC owed by the government?

Is the show still on, looks like every company has bailed? I kind of want to see what kind of commercials they are getting.
 
169sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:31
You are a pod-person, Sarge. You are a brain-dead shuffling thug of intimidation.

Given the glaring errors in your recent posts; one can most likely safely assume the level of accuracy here. Which by definition, would mean that I am in fact the precise opposite of what you alledge.
 
170Seattle Zen
      ID: 58842111
      Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 23:40
The protest has reached my family. Here's an email sent to me by my cousin:

We have been plugged into a boycott of the Mount Vernon, Washington business community. As some of you might know their Mayor,Bud Norris, has declared September 26th Glenn Beck Day. Mr Beck is a native of the Skagit County town and the Mayor wants to honor him,

Glenn Beck is a vile disgusting commentator on the Fox News Channel. Beck is no stranger to controversy, including recent comments referring to President Obama as a racist, saying the president has exposed himself as a person with a "deep-seeded hatred for white people or the white culture."

The mayor says his decision to recognize Beck isn't partisan at all, given Beck has never formally declared his party affiliation. "It's probably a judgment call and that's my prerogative. In general, I agree with Glenn Beck's delivery and everything, I enjoy watching him,” said Norris.

Below is a link to the Mount Vernon Chamber of Commerce. We wrote them stating in our travels up and down I-5 we often eat in Mt.Vernon, shop at their great Safeway, shop at their nurseries and attend their Tulip Festivals in the spring. NEVER AGAIN.

We are urging you to contact the chamber and express your anger in the mayors awarding the key to the City of Mt.Vernon and you will join this boycott. Please pass this email and link to all your friends and family. Click on Contact at the top of their web page. I think you might have to cut and paste this link.
http://www.mountvernonchamber.com/members/contact/index.php
 
171Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 23:53
Sedro-Woolley is a much cooler town anyway...
 
172biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 23:57
Of course they have no school; double-cool!
(teacher's strike).
 
173biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 23:59
It's interesting. The people I know from Mt. Vernon are fairly progressive, and they have progressive signs on Main Street.

I went up there with Tim one time, and the judge essentially dismissed the case because he wanted to go get a drink. Seemed like a pretty cool town. But if they elect a mayor like that...
 
174Seattle Zen
      ID: 238441010
      Sat, Sep 12, 2009, 15:05
More e-mail going around to pressure Mount Vernon to rethink its stupidity.

Will you sign our petition urging the Mount Vernon City Council to overrule the Mayor's decision? It's time to stand up and renounce the politics of hatred, lies, and paranoia. It is not a time to honor them. Glenn Beck is bad for our state, He is bad for our country. And we don't believe any public entity should be honoring him. Click on the link to add your name to the petition and view footage of Glenn Beck at his worst.

Sign right here.

The radical right's mud slinging is pulling our country in the wrong direction - here is your chance to take a stand against it.

Sign the petition and send a signal that Glenn Beck's brand of fear mongering and race baiting is not welcome in Washington State.

Sign right here.

Please forward our petition to your friends and family as well. We need to stand up and demand better politics in this country.
 
175Seattle Zen
      ID: 238441010
      Sun, Sep 27, 2009, 12:04


Yes, Jarjar Binks IS certainly a more deserving and better candidate for a key to the city.

800 people show up to remind Glen Beck that he is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be acknowledged in polite company.

Well, the Lockerbie bomber was given a hero's welcome, too... And in many ways, they are the same. Neither killed anyone, yet praising them is disgusting... (I'm with B7 on this one, he didn't do it).
 
176Boldwin
      ID: 33827284
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 05:33
Now see, there is an actual lie. Half those people were americans and half were anti-americans.
 
177biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 13:40
?
 
178boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 14:00
re 175: Is this a hipster pep rally, and no track bikes, what has the world come too?
 
179biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 14:06
?
 
180boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 16:19
sorry that was inside joke i made for my own personal enjoyment...it was reference to the appearance of the people in the crowd, though i have to say i like the guy that brought a beach ball.
 
181biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 17:54
You mean fixies?
 
182Razor
      ID: 14791320
      Mon, Sep 28, 2009, 19:45
I wonder what that sign in the upper left hand corner says. Could it be?

Dishonest
Obtuse
Unstable
Hateful
Extremist
Blowhard
Arrogant
Gullible

Did he leave out Charlatan?
 
184boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Sep 29, 2009, 14:24
You mean fixies? yes, i just prefer the term track bikes, because they are meant to be used on track not ridden around town.
 
185Seattle Zen
      ID: 238441010
      Tue, Sep 29, 2009, 14:42
yes, i just prefer the term track bikes, because they are meant to be used on track not ridden around town.

There is a difference between track bikes and fixed gear bikes, though slight. A real track bike does not have any brakes and usually a really huge gear. Fixed gear bikes' one gear is smaller and they usually have at least a brake on one wheel. They can be driven around town and are often used by bike messengers, but I think they are crazy.
 
186biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Tue, Sep 29, 2009, 15:47
I'd use them in Iowa. In Seattle they are crazy. They destroy both your knees, and more dramatically, your noggin, if you happen into a Mini or a Garbage truck.
 
187biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Tue, Sep 29, 2009, 15:48
What that has to do with the picture, I'm not sure. Because they are young and wearing sunglasses they like fixies?
 
188boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 14:56
re 185, and off topic but oh well, yeah the gearing is different but the both still do not allwoy you to coast.

re 187, As i said i really just posted that for my own benefit and i like to make stereo types(everyone wears sunglasses)....I guess more than anything the picture just did not look real to me, it look like it came from advertisement.
 
189Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 15:08
I guess more than anything the picture just did not look real to me

You mean like these?
 
190biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 15:47
Dunno. They are pretty standard looking young Seattlites. Maybe a bit too conservative, but other than that, pretty much what I see around the neighborhood.
 
191Boldwin
      ID: 1794329
      Fri, Oct 02, 2009, 10:43
 
192Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Oct 02, 2009, 14:49
i don't know if Baldwin has developed a sense of humour and realized people like him are being mocked, or if he doesn't know that this is supposed to be funny and is instead taking it seriously.

i like Goolsbee. he's part of the Latke-Hamantash Debate
 
193Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 11:25
Add 19 more advertisers to the list in post 165:

AmMed Direct
Citrix Online
Concord Music Group
Diageo
Eggland's Best
Equifax
Eulactol USA (producer of Flexitol)
GetARoom.com
Hoffman La Roche (maker of BONIVA)
Metropolitan Talent Management
ooVoo
Overture Films
Scarguard
Schiff Nutrition (maker of Tiger's Milk and Fi-Bar)
Seoul Metropolitan Government
Subaru
Toyota-Lexus
Waitrose
Woodland Power Products, Inc.
 
194boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 11:28
how many of these companies never planned to advertise on the show anyways? Seoul Metropolitan Government? talk about an easy way to get some free publicity say you are boycotting a show you were never going to advertise on anyway.
 
195Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 11:36
Opening a link once in a while goes a long way toward keeping your feet out of your mouth.

Unless that's the sort of thing you're in to.

From the linked article:
We're announcing that nineteen more of Beck's advertisers have stopped supporting his show.


"The Seoul government has no plan to extend, resume, or add its commercial on the program," said Joan E. Bloom, a US spokesperson for the city of Seoul, in an email to ColorOfChange.org. "In other word [sic], there will not be Seoul commercial in the Glenn Beck program any more."
 
196boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 12:10
make that 18 since "Concord Music Group" did not actually advertise on his show just on FOX news so i guess neither of us read the article.
 
197Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 12:34
"But, of course, if we consider this 'news cluster' purchase again in the future, we will only do so if we can be guaranteed to NOT be in that program."
- Dino Balzano, Director of Advertising and Merchandise at Concord Music Group

Your silly dismissal of this as "free publicity" is still moot.
 
198Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Sat, Oct 24, 2009, 14:23
Glenn Beck Day in Mount Vernon was an expensive lesson for this small town, as it found out the cost of hosting a controversial celebrity. It's on the hook for $17,748.85, mostly for 239 hours of police overtime.

Worst government spending ever.
 
199Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Oct 24, 2009, 21:06
While your at it sing us a song about the bad old days when a cold chill was upon the land and McCarthy could get you blacklisted...ooo, vilest of the vile.

I've always said the only reason liberals were so worked up about him was because he had stolen one of their favorite tactics.

 
200Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Sun, Oct 25, 2009, 11:09
Rush gets fooled...
 
201Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 05:11
Saint Sarah enlists with the PC Police.

Bonus PC thug points for the shameless double standard of coming out to demand the resignation of Democrats who commit notably lesser infractions than what gets Republicans a little bit of passive scorn.
 
202Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 05:55
No liberal EVER has the right to complain about political correctness or speech codes.

There isn't a weapon Emanuel wouldn't use and there is no wisdom or honor in letting him get away with what he would gut you for.

 
203Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 06:00
And when a liberal starts talking about hypocrasy four fingers point back at him, because the only reason he brings it up is because he doesn't care about the offense, only that the penalty should ever be enforced impartially.
 
204Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 07:30
"they do it too" in full effect.
 
205Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 08:34
By the way, this isn't a rare excursion into PC politics from a major figure on the political right. The right has it's own history there as well. Admittedly not as extensive, and they use different codes, of course. But the notions of being "for the troops" and "caring about the children" are two examples of the same kind of speech manipulation from the right that gets them in trouble for saying the racially insensitive things that they can't seem to figure out how to keep out of their vernacular.
 
209Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 11:41
Lol! So now when a Republican points out an issue liberals are traditionally weak on it's a speech code. OMG.

Ok, sure. Anytime a liberal mentions the word tax he should lose his job. I'll play along. Works for me if you are talking about a politician.

 
210Tree, on lunch
      ID: 570552512
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 11:46
Actually, i think what MITH is saying that at some point, the "they did it too" thing has to stop.

Is it just not possible for Conservatives to rise above?

If they're as persecuted as much as some believe they are, then this is the perfect opportunity for Conservatives to rise about the fray.

sadly, it appears they'd rather sink further into the manure.
 
211DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 11:51
More to the point, if it's inappropriate behavior, it's inappropriate no matter which "side" is doing it. It's completely hypocritical to say "but they do it too" and also complain when they do it.

Either the behavior is OK (justifying the "they do it too" defense somewhat) or it isn't (justifying they "they shouldn't do it" defense).

But when you do both, you're just showing that it doesn't really matter what's right and wrong, just that it's "attack the 'other side' any way you possibly can".
 
212Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 12:01
So now when a Republican points out an issue liberals are traditionally weak on it's a speech code. OMG.

The code comes whem I'm called unpatriotic or unsupportive of our armed forces for expressing my second thoughts about whether we picked a fight for the right reasons.

For the record, you'll be hard pressed to find me ever calling for someone's job because s/he said an unPC thing. Trying to pin that on me is not civil discourse. And as I've pointed out, most recently that's Saint Sarah's curiously selective reaction to the "wrong" kind of speech.
 
213Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 12:33
No more ratchets for you.
 
214Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 12:37
You may not Bork forever and then insist that the other side must not or face charges of hypocrasy.

If you are going to continually use the nuclear option then the other side needs to go nuclear.

I'll let you guess what you can do with the tsk tsk.

 
215DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 12:44
Sigh. Right back to the 'but Mom, he started it!' defense.

You are clearly NOT OK with the nuclear option when it's used against you, yet you feel justified in using it yourself.

You are clearly NOT OK with other people calling you out on this, yet you feel justified in using the exact same arguments against other people yourself.

That is the very definition of hypocrisy.
 
216Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 12:55
I'm just happy that someone finally spelled "hypocrisy" correctly!

I agree with the concept that if something is wrong, it cannot be effectively defended by asserting that the opposing faction does it too.

And when those who believe that they hold the "moral high ground" (which in this case undoubtedly includes those on both extremes of the political spectrum) make that argument, they undeniably weaken their stance on all moral/behavioral issues...

...which is why many Americans now hold so many politicians and pundits on both sides of the political fence with a significant amount of contempt.
 
217DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:00
Well spoken. And my middle school English teacher would be proud of me.

For the record, if I do end up saying that it's OK for Democrats to do something that I call out Republicans for, I expect and hope to be called out for it.

But I sure as heck don't expect to be called out for it because someone ELSE made that mistake, or because I'm incorrectly lumped in with "liberulz" who have made that mistake in the past. Worry about me and what I'm saying. I'm right here. If you have a problem with those other people, go debate them wherever they are.
 
218bibA
      ID: 01116297
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:05
Along the lines from 216, I found this interesting quote from a long since deceased historical figure:

One of the most important things in life is (having) that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right. If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide.
 
219Seattle Zen
      ID: 1410391215
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:09
Post 215 - DW

This was before your time, but perhaps our very first "rule" was - No Sighing! That's at least nine years old.

You've been warned... Keep your exhalations to yourself ;)
 
220DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:10
But he started it! I demand the right to nuclear sighing.
 
221Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:50
At the risk of some "thumping"...
Matthew 7:3-5 (King James Version)
3 And why behold the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
 
222Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 13:58
Yes, PD already said that.

If I have a beam in my eye with regard to Sodom and Gomorrah you are both welcome to point it out.

 
223Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:04
I don't think you get to cherry pick your beams.
 
224biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:08
Oh. That kind of beam!

I thought Matt meant this kind of beam:



...and I hadn't realized the bible was that interesting! I almost made a huge mistake!

 
225Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:13
Since you are in a Biblical mood...
When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will positively die,’ and you do not actually warn him and speak in order to warn the wicked one from his wicked way to preserve him alive, he being wicked, in his error he will die, but his blood I shall ask back from your own hand. 19 But as for you, in case you have warned someone wicked and he does not actually turn back from his wickedness and from his wicked way, he himself for his error will die; but as for you, you will have delivered your own soul. - Eze 3:18
And in point of fact God's statement at Sodom and Gomorrah unmistakably meets the conditions of the first sentence.

Those who wish to build a global Sodom and Gomorrah take note.

I'll take comfort in the last phrase.

 
226biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:21
Is Zeke Old Testament wrathful god, or the kindler, gentler New Testament?

That sound wrathful to me.
 
227DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:29
I'm not as up on my bible study as some others here, but I'm virtually certain that Zeke wasn't actually referring to stuff like increasing the top marginal tax rate by 3% or confirming the Homeland Security undersecretary.
 
228Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:34
and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow - James 1:17
 
229Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:44
Sounds like someone is putting on their warrior pot. Let's keep it humble--the world is full of people so full of righteous anger that they can't see they might even be wrong.
 
230Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:49
It's not my issue, it's God's.
 
231Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 15:00
For those who have rationalized that Jesus somehow changed this judgement...
But on the day that Lot came out of Sod´om it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed. - Jesus, Luke 17:29,30
 
232Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 15:00
So now God is posting under the name of Boldwin?

You are responsible for your own behavior. I realize you believe anything you say is fine because God's got your back, but if you have no humbleness God doesn't even have your front.

You continue to conflate religion and politics when it serves your needs, but you don't see how it cheapens both. You want to make a political point, fine. Just don't continue to make the mistake of thinking that your crusade against Obama has anything to do with God.

I'm pretty confident He doesn't really care about your feeling that tax rates reverting to 1995 levels is "socialism." But He cares quite a bit how you treat other people.
 
233Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 15:04
On that we agree. God does not have a side in the superbowl or between Satan's governments. They are none of them, God's Kingdom.
 
234Tree, on lunch
      ID: 570552512
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 15:52
i feel like i'm sharing a message board with Scott Roeder.
 
235Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 23:35
I feel like the moderator is out to lunch.
 
236DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 23:53
Well, send him an email then. He's had a busy day, what with all the prosletyzing going on.
 
237Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Sat, Feb 06, 2010, 08:40
Palin joins Eric Cantor, Michael Steele, Phil Gingrey, Todd Tiahrt and Mark Sanford on the list of prominant Republicans who thought better of their criticism of Rush Limbaugh.
 
238Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Sat, Feb 06, 2010, 09:27
and related to 237:

Palin's campaign against the "R-word" hits snag with Limbaugh

...Palin's conservative cohort Rush Limbaugh took offense to people, presumably including Palin, protesting Emanuel's remark. On his radio show, Limbaugh lamented that "our political correct society is acting like some giant insult's taken place by calling a bunch of people who are retards, retards." That comment caused Greg Sargent (of the Washington Post) to request a reaction from Palin's spokeswoman. It also caused confusion over whether Palin believes Limbaugh's public statements - like Emanuel's private ones - crossed the line.
 
240Mith
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 19:46
National Review kicks John Derbyshire to the curb.

Rich Lowry:
Anyone who has read Derb in our pages knows he’s a deeply literate, funny, and incisive writer. I direct anyone who doubts his talents to his delightful first novel, “Seeing Calvin Coolidge in a Dream,” or any one of his “Straggler” columns in the books section of NR. Derb is also maddening, outrageous, cranky, and provocative. His latest provocation, in a webzine, lurches from the politically incorrect to the nasty and indefensible. We never would have published it, but the main reason that people noticed it is that it is by a National Review writer. Derb is effectively using our name to get more oxygen for views with which we’d never associate ourselves otherwise. So there has to be a parting of the ways. Derb has long danced around the line on these issues, but this column is so outlandish it constitutes a kind of letter of resignation. It’s a free country, and Derb can write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Just not in the pages of NR or NRO, or as someone associated with NR any longer.
PD linked the column in the Trayvon Martin thread but here it is again.

 
241Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 21:23
Good for them. It was a nasty column--can't believe some are trying to defend it (not here, thank goodness).
 
242Mith
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 21:38
Yeah NR is taking a bit of heat from their own today for firing him. He put them in a terrible spot.

I'm not one to cite trends on internet comments sections as evidence of what people on one side of the political aisle or the other generally think. But since Boldwin is, I encourage him to take a look at the comments under articles about Derbyshire's column at sites like daily caller and breitbart.com. It aint pretty.
 
243Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 22:50
Sometimes the truth is ugly. I'd bet the farm everyone here uses a number of those ideas to stay alive when they visit the big city, tho they dare not breathe a word of it in these PC times.
 
244Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 22:59
Even Jesse Jackson and Obama's surrogate mom.
 
245Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:03
And you know NR has gone over to the enemy when they start enforcing standard PC speech codes.

And pushing Trotskite/Leo Strauss' neo-cons.

And stabbing Ann Coulter in the back.

 
246Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:23
Yeah, whenever I go to the beach, I call ahead to see if there will be a lot of blacks there. Stands to reason, yes?
 
247Mith
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 23:26
Boldwin

Let's not BS, ok? It's not that every last thing Derbyshire said in that piece that makes him a racist.

Your careful qualifier: ("a number of those ideas") is not clever. It's a cheap way for you to establish a point from which to defend a fellow conservative while still maintaining a safe distance from the meat of the thing.

So lets deal with the issue like men and not cherrypick the least offensive points, as if generally claiming that blacks and whites tend to display antisocial behavior differently (#7) is what got everyone riled up and Derbyshire fired.

John Derbyshire is a racist. This was well-established a long time ago. All this latest column did was reaffirm it.

So lets not tiptoe around the subject, OK? Are you saying you agree with Derbyshire's items 10C through 12 (those seem to be the worst of it) or not?
 
248Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 00:40
I disagree with the whole smug, race baiting, self-righteous, censoring, phantom Godless virtue, lynch-mob mentality that has the left hissing like extras on the set of 'Body Snatchers'.

No I will not cooperate with your witch hunt.
 
249Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 01:04
I disagree with the whole smug, race baiting, self-righteous, censoring, phantom Godless virtue, lynch-mob mentality that has the left hissing like extras on the set of 'Body Snatchers'.

So, National Review is now the left. They've gone over to the enemy when they start enforcing standard PC speech codes.

What you really disagree with is basic respect for any idea which doesn't meld with your increasingly marginalized fringe element. I can't think of a position that envelopes phantom Godless virtue any more than this.

 
250Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 02:03
As if writing that column is anything but race-baiting.
As if Boldy's refusal to judge the merit of the column on the singular values of it's ethics and morality because doing so concedes a point to his political opposition is anything but self-righteous.
As if what he calls censorship wouldn't instead be a "triumph of natural market forces at work" if Derbyshire's political alignment were reversed (LE to CG).
 
251Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 09:50
PV

Yeah, you wish Tea Party sentiments were 'marginalized'. I'll be pleased if they stay as marginalized as they were in 2010.

MITH

No, the tyranny of lynch mob intimidation is anything but market forces at work.
 
252Mith
      ID: 50151411
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:02
So when Sean Hannity and a bunch of conservatives tried to get David Letterman fired over offensive things he said about the Palin family, that was tyranny of lynch mob intimidation?

Funny but I'm pretty sure you didn't characterize it that way at the time.
 
253Mith
      ID: 50151411
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:06
Nope, see post 151.

In that case, it was just a matter of some good people letting Letterman know their feelings were hurt. Haha!
 
254bibA
      ID: 4057177
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:08
So let me get this straight Baldwin. You define the reaction to this guys comments as being from a lynch mob mentality. You of course would not allow yourself to partake in such behavior. Thus, one is led to believe that you have no objections to what Derby has written re his racial views. Are any of his points even just a bit objectionable to you?
 
255Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:11
biba

See #238B
 
256Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:15
Of course the ironic part is that if liberals unhypocritically ignored the realities discussed by Derby it would really even out the left/right imbalance on the board. Kinda cull the herd a bit. Survival of the fittest ideas in action.

Jesse Jackson on the otherhand is smart enuff to check his ideology at the boundary of no-man's-land.
 
257Mith
      ID: 50151411
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:29
So we're not allowed to critcize racism unless we also acknowledge any agreeable points that happen to be made as well?
 
258Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:32
Nah, yer not allowed to practice Jesse Jackson's practical policy of racial profiling, while drumming anyone out of employment for publishing those realities.
 
259Mith
      ID: 50151411
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:43
You're accusing me of unfairly profiling John Derbyshire as a racist?
 
260Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 10:55
Worse than that.

I am accusing you of joining in a howling mob bent on destroying someone for daring to publish realities you yourself believe in and practice as a matter of self-preservation.
 
261Seattle Zen
      ID: 4811181319
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 11:39
No, Baldwin, real men do NOT believe or practice any of those reprehensible practices. This is just further proof that you really are a racist POS.
 
262Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 11:44
Any objective realities that happen be in that column are not the issue. It's the confirmed and published racism that I criticize. That you don't respect me or any other liberal enough to think I or they are capable of offering such a criticism as anything but a mob mentality reaction says more about you than me. Several times in this very forum I've personally defended you from silly charges of racism and more often than that I've criticized liberal members for using the term haphazardly.

You're the one succumbing to mob mentality, in the form of refusing to take a particular opinion at face value because of the damage you fear it causes your political agenda.

And what a joke your standard is. As if every time you come here to bitch about what some liberal writes you take the time to acknowledge some of the more objective points s/he uses to support a greater opinion that you find highly offensive (such as that white people risk their safety by spending too much time around unfamiliar black people, especially black people in large numbers).

And don't ever tell me what I believe. Through my adult life I've regularly broken every one of Derb's tips for safe living in a country with black people. Its how I know the difference between approaching people like they are human beings and living in pathetic and paranoid xenophobic fear of them.
 
263Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 12:50
Sometimes the truth is ugly. I'd bet the farm everyone here uses a number of those ideas to stay alive when they visit the big city, tho they dare not breathe a word of it in these PC times.

you'd lose the farm.

some of us have lived in big cities for a long time. i've spent the majority of my life in large cities - 3 of the top 8 metropolitan areas in the US and 2 of the top 16 biggest cities - and i've actually never looked at skin color as a method to "stay alive".

if you're lazy, ignorant, or stupid, i can understand doing that, because you don't have the ability to think for yourself. the brain capacity simply isn't there.

but if you've got even a lick of sense, my spidey sense is gonna tingle when i'm being followed by someone, regardless of skin color. i'm going to avoid closed off alley ways, regardless of neighborhood. i'm not going to wear my headphone at night. i'm going to try and avoid ATMs after dark.

for people with half a brain, skin color has nothing to do with it.

and while i've been called on the carpet for referring to you as a racist, and have since backed off and instead gone gentle and followed the "PC-mob mentality" by calling you a bigot, i can't help but feel in my heart of hearts that you're the most racist person i've ever had the displeasure of interacting with.
 
264Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:15
I've spent considerable time in Chicago riding bikes, riding the el and subways, driving thru, going door to door in every sort of neighborhood, not curled up in a xenophobic ball.

Everyone in Chicago has a finely graded map of the city's safety block by block, and it isn't based on skin color per se. It is based on what liberals have done to degrade society.
 
265Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:47
Everyone in Chicago

that's a lie. i just called two different friends in Chicago. Neither has any sort of map of what you're referring to. neither do their wives, or children.

and it isn't based on skin color per se.

which has nothing to do with your own racism, of course.

 
266Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 13:51
i just called two different friends in Chicago.

Sure you did. They all have that mental map or they are dead.
 
267Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:12
Boldwin
If 264 is intended to imply that you've had personal experiences to apply in judging the merit of Derb's column, it's interesting for you to admit that you have broken some of the rules, too.

Did 5% of the black people in those places seem ferociously hostile toward you in reaction to the color of your skin and go out of their way to harm or inconvenience you?
 
268Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:43
I'm just curious. Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...

...and then think that would make them good neighbors?
 
269sarge33rd
      ID: 13325518
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 14:55
sp in the "world according to Boldwin", it is perfectly alright for a rightwingnut to spew racist crap as a viable life-philosophy, but not OK for a leftwing comedian to use disparaging terms to describe a female, in his on stage-adult only-standup act.

Is that about the sum total of it there Boldwin?
 
270Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 15:03
Between Derbshire and me, one of us gives every person and group the same fair shake and one of us does not. My living out that principle and criticizing someone who thinks Im an idit for it is what you're mocking.
 
271Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 17:56
Sure you did. They all have that mental map or they are dead.

there's even a song named after one of them, courtesy of Wesley Willis.

and since they answered their phone, i'm going to presume they're not dead.

Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...

......and then think that would make them good neighbors?


LOL. what vile hate are you spewing now? wow.

 
272Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 18:20
I'm just curious. Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them blacks were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...

...and then think that would make them good neighbors?


The Far Right platform on race relations.
 
273Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 20:10
Yeah, you wish Tea Party sentiments were 'marginalized'. I'll be pleased if they stay as marginalized as they were in 2010.

You think blatant racist rants are Tea Party sentiments? Show me any Tea Party charter or mission statement that even begins to emulate the kind of rhetoric Derbshire is promoting.

Are you so desperate for acceptance of the unacceptable that you're willing to use any type of successful movement, no matter how unrelated, as justification?

I don't know what kind of country you want to live in, but I can tell you what kind of country you're going to live in. Caucasians will have more children with blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc., until it won't matter anymore.
To many of us, it doesn't matter now.

 
274Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:04
Did you think you could spend your whole life telling them to live their whole life in a state of unresolved rage, tell them whites were devils, tell them they deserved payback, tell them they were cheated and hated...

......and then think that would make them good neighbors?

LOL. what vile hate are you spewing now? wow.
- Tree

Just reading from the songbook liberals have been singing to blacks my whole life.
 
275Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:15
Just reading from the songbook liberals have been singing to blacks my whole life.

maybe from the songbook you bring with you to Klan rallies.

you're surrounded by liberals here. why don't you ask us how many have told our black friends to live in a state of unresolved rage, that whites were devils, that they deserved payback, and that they were cheated and hated.

pretty sick stuff you're coming up with.
 
276Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 21:47
It is ludicrous to deny that blacks have been told relentlessly that the deck is stacked against them, that the man is keeping them down, that the establishment is cheating them, that they deserve and require assistance, that slavery reparations are a good idea, necessary even, that white society is seething with racism against blacks.

Oh, but reciting from your own playbook is 'pretty sick stuff'.
 
277Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:01
that white society is seething with racism against blacks.

this, at least in part, is true. look at your posts, look at the column that started this whole discussion.
 
278Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:19
Again it's not about race. It's about the damage liberals have done to a large segment of black society.

Actually it is the 'long overdue discussion about race' that liberals keep calling for, just not the accusing finger they are pointing with, but rather all the fingers pointing back at them.
 
279sarge33rd
      ID: 13325518
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 22:50
Your blind, irrational hatred for all things left of the FAR FAR FAR FAR right, has left you utterly unable to cognitively process the truth.

Do yourself, and us a favor Boldwin....go away.
 
280Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Sun, Apr 08, 2012, 23:25
Again it's not about race. It's about the damage liberals have done to a large segment of black society.

No, it's about John Derbyshire writing a disturbingly racist article, and the conservative National Review releasing him because they don't want to be associated with such garbage.
It is about race. And it should be noted that the conservatives, like Rich Lowry, who refuse to allow a platform for such bigotry, should be commended for their efforts to distance themselves from these types of divisive tactics.

 
281Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 02:41
Again it's not about race.

to a racist who doesn't believe himself a racist, i suppose not.
 
282Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 05:11
The conversation was started by Daniel Patrick Moynihan explaining how the great society was going to destroy the black community.

Jesse Jackson in a moment of clarity and honesty explained just how bad it had gotten but you don't get many moments like that because liberals are afraid being honest will provide conservatives too much ammunition.

So we won't as a society be having that long overdue discussion. In fact society will try to destroy anyone who speaks the truth.
 
283Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 05:38
And just think of all those poor college students loaded to the gills with pent up venom from years of black studies courses at 10 grand a year plus interest...

...and no discussion to use it.
 
284Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 09:43
I freely admit that some misguided efforts by liberals have negatively affected the black community over the years, forced busing in the 70s being one of the best examples. Why anyone other than basketball coaches thought bringing the ghetto into the suburbs would do anything other than increase tensions in relations is hard to figure.

But I don't see how being fixated on past misguided efforts in any way excuses Derbyshire's dreams of segregation, who you applaud as someone who speaks the truth. I really fail to see how propping Derbyshire up as some kind of champion of free speech in any way moves this country forward in relation to race relations, which have dramatically improved in almost every area over the decades, thanks, in part, to efforts by liberals you are so eager to demonize, that you would partner up with a contingency that lines up closer to the Aryan Nation than the conservatives you claim to represent.
Isn't it sad that Derbyshire's column is seen as an opportunity to rail about liberals, mental maps of sections of cities to avoid, and citing those who feel the context is unacceptable are the enemy?
 
285Tree
      ID: 17039238
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 09:44
The conversation was started by Daniel Patrick Moynihan explaining how the great society was going to destroy the black community.

it started in 1992? lmao.

your racism was rooted well before then, i'm sure.
 
286Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 10:10
your racism was rooted well before then, i'm sure.

I don't know that it's so much a case of racism as it is an opportunity to make generic claims of liberal failures, a fixation that seems to overrule any kind of rational thought, much less an opportunity to advance positive momentum toward a more productive and color blind society.

In order to move in that direction, we'll need to marginalize not only the Derbyshires out there, but the segment of the black community that uses every incident that arises(Trayvon Martin?)to claim victim status while promoting an agenda that can honestly be described as reverse racism.

 
287Tree
      ID: 8321910
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 11:25
we'll need to marginalize not only the Derbyshires out there, but the segment of the black community that uses every incident that arises(Trayvon Martin?)to claim victim status

oh, no doubt. if the Al Sharpton's of the world didn't chime in anytime something like this happened, we wouldn't have people like Baldwin standing on their soap box screaming and pointing going "See! See!"

(note Baldwin, despite your inane desire to paint everything as liberal this and liberal that, there are plenty of us liberals that don't like some of the tactics used).

none of this changes my opinion that Baldwin defending a racist is no shock. and that if it walks and quacks like a duck, well, it's a duck.
 
288Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 20:51
Noah Millman with a conservative response to the Derb.