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| Posted by: Jag
- [14828255] Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 08:58
Liberalism makes for strange bedfellows, Potheads unite with Union officals, gays with socialists, elitist psuedo intellects with the truly uneducated, etc... but what I found hilarious was the president and co-founder of PETA telling Bill Maher, that cow farts are the leading cause of global warming.
Gaseous Bovine
Hey Bill, she is one of yours, but that is not as near as crazy as Maher's belief that Americans are more sickly than the rest of the world because we suppress our symptoms with medicine and we need to let everything out. It sounds like Bill thinks by pulling your finger a day, you can keep the doctors away.
Liberals you gotta love them, if for nothing else, but comic relief. |
| | | 1 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 10:55
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Because we know the environment and the soil were never meant to deal with large herbivores.
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| | | 2 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 11:27
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Jag Liberalism makes for strange bedfellows, Potheads unite with Union officals, gays with socialists, elitist psuedo intellects with the truly uneducated, etc
I just have one favor to ask, can you tell us all what exactly it is you're smoking so we can stay away from it?
I watched the entire clip (because I found it entertaining) and for the life of me I can't figure out what you are chortling about.
I had completely forgotten about Bill Maher while over here with the A-Rabs until you ranted about him, now I download his show for free on itunes every week...thanks I am really enjoying it.
The studies linking factory farming and specifically methane gas emissions have been around for a few years now, and not just written by groups like PETA, try a google search.
It's such an "imagined" problem, as you seem to suggest, that there are capitalistic companies trying to come up with a feed that reduces methane emissions when fed to cows.
I'm sure these companies that survive by earning profits are doing it because they are on PETA's payroll?
I thought the PETA rep was articulate and presented a reasonable case.
What exactly is it you find funny?
And as far as this goes
Hey Bill, she is one of yours, but that is not as near as crazy as Maher's belief that Americans are more sickly than the rest of the world because we suppress our symptoms with medicine and we need to let everything out.
Forgive me if I don't really trust your "paraphrasing" of his position on this. Not that you aren't one of the more articulate posters on the board...
I've spoken to Doctors who think we over medicate, who think that the pharmaceutical industry has too much power and influence over how doctors treat patients, encouraging them to write a script for everything.
I've had a doctor tell me you wouldn't believe the sales job these Pharmaceutical reps pull to manipulate doctors into prescribing their scrips, including payola in the form of gifts.
Again, Maher isn't in that small a crowd on this topic nor is it a specifically liberal topic, its a medical one.
Try a google search of something like overmedicating in the USA over 56,000 articles.
The fact you are so amused by these pretty well publicized topics makes me think you need to get out from under that cave more.
I know you ain't gonna believe this Jag, but they got these here phones now that you ain't even gotta plug inta a wall.
sheez.
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| | | 3 | Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 11:39
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really. are you clods this dim? or have you not followed any news in the last 30 years?
it's a fairly documented fact that methane - one of the strongest greenhouse gases around and 25 more potent than Carbon Dioxide when measured at the same weight - is most likely a significant contributor to Global Warming.
it's also a fairly well known fact that all livestock - not just cows - produce methane when they pass gas. And while there is no true documented number out there and scientists argue whether it is a significant problem or not, the numbers thrown around are anywhere between 20 and 50 percent of all human-related methane emissions come from livestock.
laugh all you want. because, it is damned funny that cow farts and burps could play a role in wrecking our environment.
but, for god's sake, at least try and do some research (i know - this is wasted breath to even say this to you) when you spout off your udder nonsense.
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| | | 4 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 11:42
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Because we know the environment and the soil were never meant to deal with large herbivores.
While I'm not an expert on the issue, that is just a patently unintellectual response.
The earth of course was originally able to sustain large herbivores...not to mention humans. Come on Baldwin, any half wit can see that as the planet becomes grossly over populated there are consequences that result from the over population.
Whether you buy into global warming or not, the excess pollution in densely populated ares is not open for debate.
So you are saying the planet was always intended to have huge numbers of large herbivores concentrated into small areas of land? their fecal matter getting into the ground water and polluting the rivers and streams in the surrounding area? (Sorry just a statement of fact)
I supose the earth was designed for heavy machinery to go in and level vast miles of land for them to live on, and to grow food to fed them, eliminating trees which absorb carbon dioxide?
Sorry I missed that part of my natural history course.
Did you even lift a finger to write that?
It's just like anything else on this planet that pollutes, the larger the numbers, the more they pollute, and the numbers are getting mighty big.
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| | | 5 | biliruben
ID: 17502215
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 12:23
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I appreciate the effort, Nerve, but you will have a better chance of conversing intelligently with a bovine than with jag.
I can pretty much guarantee he will discount (or simply not read) all you wrote, and just continue with his heeeelarious game of "needle a pinko".
I do sorely miss intelligent conservatives around here who make honest points, but I don't think we can magically give jag a spine or 50 points on his IQ and build our own.
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| | | 6 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Tue, Sep 25, 2007, 12:35
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Since Jag was good enough to bring the topic up and help raise awareness of some of the factory farming related environmental issues we'll have to deal with as the industry continues to grow, did anyone happen to notice this story linked at Drudge today? Frog-deforming infections caused by tiny parasites are increasing because of North American farms' nutrient-rich watershed, a new study shows.
The excess nitrogen and phosphorus found in farm runoff causes more algae to grow, which increases snail populations that host microscopic parasites called trematodes, said Pieter Johnson, a water scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder.
"What we found is that nitrogen and phosphorus pollution from agriculture, cattle grazing and domestic runoff have the potential to significantly promote parasitic infection and deformities in frogs," Johnson said.
To discover the link between farms and the trematode infections, Johnson and his team built 36 artificial ponds similar to farm stock tanks, where frogs and salamanders often breed and deposit their eggs.
The researchers then stocked each tank with snails and green frog tadpoles and, in addition to adding nutrients, they dropped in parasite eggs. In ponds with added nutrients, Johnson said, the total mass of snails was 50 percent greater and parasite egg production was eight times as great.
The infection rate in frogs rose between two to five times in those tanks, he added.
"We were able to watch nutrient pollution move through the life cycle of the parasite as it cascaded through the food web," he said. "Since most human diseases involve multiple hosts, understanding how increased nutrient pollution affects freshwater and marine food webs to influence disease is an emerging frontier in ecological research."
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| | | 7 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 07:41
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Nerve
Farmers aren't doing the environment a whole lotta good, especially large corporate farming. There are things I worry about there. Such as the fact that they are destroying the natural microbial ecosystem of their soil. Factory hog lots do truly create a polution problem. Fertilizer runoff is a true problem. Soil errosion, etc, etc.
However I also see large numbers of cattle out in the cornfields after harvest being fattened for slaughter and they aren't doing anything to the environment or the soil or the watershed that bison weren't doing for countless years before man. This is exactly what peta was addressing and their specific concern in this case is hogwash. Nothing new to see here, move along.
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| | | 8 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 08:33
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This is exactly what peta was addressing and their specific concern in this case is hogwash. Nothing new to see here, move along.
Nothing new here? do you have a reference for that statement I can check out? Scientific evidence debunking the cow/methane conspiracy theories?
Such as the fact that they are destroying the natural microbial ecosystem of their soil. Factory hog lots do truly create a polution problem. Fertilizer runoff is a true problem. Soil errosion, etc, etc.
If you watched the clip you would know she mentioned all the concerns in your first paragraph and the methane discussion was just one point in the clip that Jag chose to high light.
In any case, I've been reading about the methane issue for years, are you saying it's imagined?
Is the capitalist company creating the feed to reduce methane just taking advantage of "simple folk" who believe in this fantasy?
Are you comparing the numbers of bison's a few hundred years ago with the vastly larger number that have been produced since the cattle factory industry started full bore the last 50 years.
I suppose there have always been over a billion Chinese on the planet too?
It's not that they weren't there in the past (the cattle) it's that the numbers, just like the human population numbers (particularly in agricultural societies) have sky rocketed.
I'm assuming you didn't actually watch the clip because if you had you would realize you actually agreed with many of her points.
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| | | 9 | Jag
ID: 14828255
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 13:03
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Nothing new here? do you have a reference for that statement I can check out? Scientific evidence debunking the cow/methane conspiracy theories?
Nerve, if I made a statement like "Nerveclinic arrested for raping over 70 sheep" how would you post a link denying it? I doubt you can find a study regarding this ridiculous subject by a non-bias source.
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| | | 10 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 13:40
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Yes I actually watched the clip and it's just ridiculous.
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| | | 11 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 13:52
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As a matter of fact I watched all six u-tube segments of the show at the time it was first linked to.
If the environment could think and speak at a human level and it was presented with a herd of cows eliminating over it, it would wipe it's brow and say 'finally something just happened to me that I was designed to thrive on.'
How every thinking person listening to her doesn't immediately realize that she has no genuine concern for the enviroment and only a desire for meddling is beyond me.
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| | | 12 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 14:06
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designed to thrive on?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt the bison roam pretty widely? Not dumping excessive amounts of fertilizer on the same ground, over and over and over again. (Remember that run off oyu refer to in an earlier post and the concerns you voiced re said run-off?) With modern industrial farm/ranch trending toward concentrating massive numbers of bovine in a restricted range, dont your concerns tend to echo those of the video? Yet here you are, just a few posts later, deriding the video?
Please explain to me, how it is you plan on still having your cake, after you've eaten it already?
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| | | 13 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 15:00
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Nerve, if I made a statement like "Nerveclinic arrested for raping over 70 sheep"
Jag? Jag?
Was that you farting again?
I'm sure I smell methane.
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| | | 14 | Tree
ID: 3533298
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 15:08
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Nerve, if I made a statement like "Nerveclinic arrested for raping over 70 sheep" how would you post a link denying it?
there are plenty of links for sources denying man landed on the moon or the Holocaust ever happened or any other myriad of things...
there are also plenty of scientists who question whether methene gas is a problem creating global warming, as i actually mentioned in post 3.
just because you're too lazy to look for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it just means you're lazy, and your convictions aren't strong enough for you to even bother standing behind them.
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| | | 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 15:11
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I disagree Tree. I'm sure Jag would gleefully stand behind ANY conviction, of any Democrat.
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| | | 16 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 15:29
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With modern industrial farm/ranch trending toward concentrating massive numbers of bovine in a restricted range, dont your concerns tend to echo those of the video? Yet here you are, just a few posts later, deriding the video?
I drive past grazing cattle every day. The ones I see are obviously not a threat to the environment. I have never seen any cattle here in Illinois farmland, so concentrated that IMO they represented amy kind of threat to environment and my scientific judgement is not to be sneered at.
Could it be done so poorly that it would be a threat in a rare instance? It certainly happens in hog farming all the time.
The typical herd of cows feeding in the stubble of a harvested corn field of Illinois could hardly be a closer analog to the bison which preceded them on those same hills and plains.
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| | | 17 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 15:39
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Come to think of it every year another of those herds is actually converted to bison.
I drive past that sight and my heart positively burns, 'that is exactly the way it should be.'
The PETA lady drives past and says, 'OMG we're doomed, bison farting and pooping. How will the environment ever cope with this 'new' threat.
Could she honestly be that dense?
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| | | 19 | Baldwin
ID: 125312919
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 18:44
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They are sent here from elsewhere this time of year to put on the last bit of weight before going to market. We have plenty. The freshly harvested corn fields are often given to them for grazing.
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| | | 20 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 19:01
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I see. So cattle are trucked from TX, through the cornfields of Missouri to Illinois, to graze on THAT corn instead?
Seems a little thin...dont ya think?
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| | | 21 | Perm Dude
ID: 48532519
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 19:10
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That's where the slaughterhouses are, sarge. Chicago.
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| | | 22 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 19:15
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Chicago, KC, Omaha, Dallas, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc.
Herds enroute to market, dont stop off to graze for a few days during the trip. The trains go to the slaughter house, and the cattle get butchered.
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| | | 23 | Perm Dude
ID: 48532519
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 19:23
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Not during--toward the end of long trips (say, from TX to IL).
Many do go right to slaughter, mostly on medium & short trips. But remember: The cattle are weighed at slaughter, and long-range cattle can lose 10% of their on-the-hoof weight on a multi-day train trip like thar. By allowing the cattle a few more days to graze, the rancher can get about 10% more for the same cattle.
I'm sure where you're from you don't see lots of disimbarking cattle coming off a trip across the country. But in Chicago ("Hog Butcher of the World" as Sandburg called them) it is pretty common to see cattle grazing in old fields for a few days before going to slaughter. And it helps the farmer out as well.
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| | | 24 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 19:57
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How many of Texas' 5.5 million cattle could be sent to Baldwin's neighborhood each year? I can't imagine the concentration that B sees is the same as exists where the beef is raised.
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| | | 25 | Jag
ID: 14828255
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 09:03
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This is what is great about Liberals, cow farts causing global warming is a great intellectual topic and bringing democracy to a nation is just plain stupid.
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| | | 26 | Perm Dude
ID: 16838277
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 09:13
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By force, without a clear understanding of the facts? You betcha. And it isn't just "liberals" who think Iraq is a mess. About 61% of the entire country (including the Right) believe this.
And if global warming were any concern at all (at least, finding the facts about it) you'd realize that studies such as this are important.
But let me appeal to your political side (which is really the only one you show here): This study (and similar ones) show that the believe that global warming is exclusively caused by human activity to be bogus (I'm going to put aside the point that no one, even on the Left claims this is the case). In other words, studies like this are actually helpful to your side of the debate, because they point to the complexity of the issue and demand further study, telling those who care about the issue that it is not all that easy to determine global warming causes, let alone suggest solutions.
Baldwin, I think, hits this point on the head from your "side." You, instead, want to keep fighting the Iraqi War.
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| | | 27 | Jag
ID: 14828255
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 09:23
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If any scientist debunks the man-made global warming theories, he is immediately ostracized.
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| | | 28 | Perm Dude
ID: 16838277
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 09:24
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You really aren't very good with distinctions, are you Jag?
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| | | 29 | Jag
ID: 14828255
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 09:28
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Global warming has become a cash cow for scientists.
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| | | 30 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 10:36
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If any scientist debunks the man-made global warming theories, he is immediately ostracized.
Wow he's thick.
Jag, in the preceding post PD points out that this discussion and the PITA lady's argument do indeed make a case that it's not an exclusively man made phenomenon.
And you're the one ostracizing those who consider it.
I guess no intellectual compromise is too great if you think you're making a liberal look stupid.
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| | | 31 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:05
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Global warmingThe Iraq war has become a cash cow for scientistsShrubs buddies.
there. At least now, there is some truth to the statement.
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| | | 32 | boikin
ID: 59831214
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:11
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Global warmingThe Iraq war has become a cash cow for scientistsShrubs buddies.
there. At least now, there is some truth to the statement.
thanks sarge for this non informative statement.
Honestly i dont see any scientist running around sporting rolexes becuase of global warming. though i woud say there probably are some marketing executives that are.
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| | | 33 | boikin
ID: 59831214
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:11
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Global warmingThe Iraq war has become a cash cow for scientistsShrubs buddies.
there. At least now, there is some truth to the statement.
thanks sarge for this non informative statement.
Honestly i dont see any scientist running around sporting rolexes becuase of global warming. though i woud say there probably are some marketing executives that are.
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| | | 34 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:25
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one pointless post wasnt enough? Had to dble it up?
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| | | 35 | boikin
ID: 59831214
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 15:11
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No my point was i dont see any scientist running around sporting rolexes because of global warming. and sense i work with people who are scientist i was trying to disprove jags remark. the second point is that there are a lot of marketing people making money selling "green" products or "earth friendly" products. I think sarge it may be time for you go back to selling some "there is no such thing as global warming" vehicles.
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| | | 36 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 15:22
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Have a good day boikin. Too much slides right by you, and too often I have to read your posts 4 times to make sense of them.
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| | | 37 | walk
Dude
ID: 32928238
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 15:29
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I am biased cos the guy makes me laugh hard. I watch the show religiously (aaaar, pun intended; Bill (and me) are anti-religion) and he's right about our society of sicko's here. Our nation, in general, does not exercise as much, overeats, eats awful foods, and overmedicates. We also overwork. This is not radical thinking.
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