Forum: pol
Page 3037
Subject: Canabisis Greater Risk For Lung Cancer Then Cigs

  Posted by: nerveclinic - [36536204] Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 06:50

You had to figure this was coming...

I argued for years with people who tried to tell me "oh no cannabis is different, it doesn't have tar etc, etc."

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Smoking a joint is equivalent to 20 cigarettes in terms of lung cancer risk, scientists in New Zealand have found, as they warned of an "epidemic" of lung cancers linked to cannabis.

Studies in the past have demonstrated that cannabis can cause cancer, but few have established a strong link between cannabis use and the actual incidence of lung cancer.

In an article published in the European Respiratory Journal, the scientists said cannabis could be expected to harm the airways more than tobacco as its smoke contained twice the level of carcinogens, such as polyaromatic hydrocarbons, compared with tobacco cigarettes.

The method of smoking also increases the risk, since joints are typically smoked without a proper filter and almost to the very tip, which increases the amount of smoke inhaled. The cannabis smoker inhales more deeply and for longer, facilitating the deposition of carcinogens in the airways.

"Cannabis smokers end up with five times more carbon monoxide in their bloodstream (than tobacco smokers)," team leader Richard Beasley, at the Medical Research Institute of New Zealand, said in a telephone interview.

"There are higher concentrations of carcinogens in cannabis smoke ... what is intriguing to us is there is so little work done on cannabis when there is so much done on tobacco."

The researchers interviewed 79 lung cancer patients and sought to identify the main risk factors for the disease, such as smoking, family history and occupation. The patients were questioned about alcohol and cannabis consumption.

In this high-exposure group, lung cancer risk rose by 5.7 times for patients who smoked more than a joint a day for 10 years, or two joints a day for 5 years, after adjusting for other variables, including cigarette smoking.

"While our study covers a relatively small group, it shows clearly that long-term cannabis smoking increases lung cancer risk," wrote Beaseley.

"Cannabis use could already be responsible for one in 20 lung cancers diagnosed in New Zealand," he added.

"In the near future we may see an 'epidemic' of lung cancers connected with this new carcinogen. And the future risk probably applies to many other countries, where increasing use of cannabis among young adults and adolescents is becoming a major public health problem."

link

 
1Jag
      ID: 360261522
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 07:39 		You just made Zen's hit list. Watch your back.
 
2Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 09:53 		Vaporize.
 
3walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 10:30 		aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
 
4Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 10:48 		a great place to visit when in Vancouver...

too bad those things cost like 800 bucks...
 
5Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 10:49 		You can get a good vaporizer for $250.
 
6Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 10:59 		hmm, my experience is limited to Volcanos. we should discuss further.
 
7Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:10 		Here's a link that has them ranging from $120. I've used and recommend the Herbal Aire model (3rd down the top sellers list on the right).
 
8Boxman
      ID: 337352111
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:18 		Oh OK, you guys are all butt buddy around here because you're drug addicts AND fantasy sports people. I get it now.

Zen will try mightily to refute this. I'm anticipating either a cartoon or just an F-You!
 
9sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:27 		I get it now.


I doubt that.
 
10Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:29 		Only a persone who is a deliberate forum cancer would enter a discussion and post off topic for the sole purpose of inciting and insulting others.

Yeah, you get no respect here because you're not in the fantasy sports and pot circle cliques. Can't possibly have anything to do posts like that one.
 
11walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:36 		MITH, #10, very funny! I'll have to read that again the next time I'm in an altered state to get a new laughie. I tellya though, that article disturbs me. I see it's a small sample, and based on some heavy smokers (1 J/day or even more), but I do want to see some other studies now.
 
12Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 11:51 		Oh OK, you guys are all butt buddy around here because you're drug addicts AND fantasy sports people. I get it now.

no, clearly you don't get anything, as evidenced by your lack of response in the other thread where your silly, asinine, and juvenile "points" were refuted quite handily.

back in the day, people like you were called Trolls, and there's little doubt that you are the epitome of that.

anyway, back on topic. thanks for that link MITH. i had never used a vaporizer until my recent trip to Canada, and i can honestly say it was a world of difference, and like nothing i'd experienced before.

oh, and Boxman - maybe you oughta try smoking once in a while. it might help you relax, and be less of a cock.
 
13Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 12:22 		Wikipedia Article on Vaporizers
 
14Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 13:31 		Sullivan reminds his readers of this contradictory study from just two years ago.
 
15biliruben
      ID: 5610442715
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 13:55 		A case-control study with 79 patients? The European Respiratory Journal? Sheesh. I'm not saying the results are worthless, but I would be very hesitant put too much stock in them.

With that small a sample size, we are probably talking 2 cases and 1 control in the high-risk group. I would also like to know how they got their controls. Do you know of too many dudes smoking a bong-hit a day for 10 years that makes the effort to volunteer to be a control in a any study, much less one studying lung cancer? Can you say healthy volunteer bias? Okay, maybe not, but I can.

Anyway, I'm not going to critique it any more until I see the article (it doesn't come out in electronic form until Feb 1.), but I'm not holding my breath (so to speak).

BTW, maybe I need more practice on my technique, but vaporizors don't provide as much of a buzz.
 
16walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:17 		Wow, I am stunned that I don't know about these vaporizers. I do know the humidifier market well though (love the ultrasonic kinds)....aaaar.

MITH/Tree: can you get these things in the village? (you know, store after store after store of h-shops)
 
17walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:20 		Nevermind, after re-reading this thread, I think you (MITH) would have mentioned this, and instead posted that link...I will check out your link in #7.
 
18Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:25 		but vaporizors don't provide as much of a buzz.

maybe it was because it was the first time i used one, but the high i got when i tried it earlier this month in Canada was one of the best i've ever had.

it was a different kind of high than i'd had before with weed smoking, and i kinda liked it.

The Volcano is the one i used, but i'll trust MITH's judgement on the one he mentioned.
 
19Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:29 		Walk - Check the shops down St. Marks Place. If you're not familiar, there are a bunch of shops - I forget if they're btw 1st and 2nd Ave, or btw 2nd and 3rd Aves. I imagine you'd find something there but I do suggest you do some research and know what you're looking for before heading down there. Also - don't be afraid to haggle with those guys.
 
20Boldwin
      ID: 1055190
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:30 		Health warnings are wasted on MJ users. I have come to believe it's their favorite healthfood, no matter what study will ever be done saying otherwise.

What do I care if they want to qualify for a Darwin Award? They're libs usually, at the risk of being redundant.
 
21walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:30 		Whoo-hoo, epidimiological researcher bili says: "feh!"

Party on, Garth!

oh, as a sorta aside, IIRC, Nerve, you mentioned a movie/cd a looong time ago that I recently saw (both movie and cd acquisition): "24 Hour Party People." Great movie, and as a huge Joy Division fan (not so much New Order) and Happy Mondays fan, I loved this stuff. (Really not much of an aside at all if you know this scene!)
 
22biliruben
      ID: 5610442715
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:32 		Yeah - don't really like the music, but the movie was great.
 
23Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:34 		Health warnings are wasted on MJ users.

nice turn of a phrase...

I have come to believe it's their favorite healthfood, no matter what study will ever be done saying otherwise.

there are lots of things you've come to believe that couldn't be further from the truth. this belief, is no different.

What do I care if they want to qualify for a Darwin Award? They're libs usually, at the risk of being redundant.

so, how many people do you know that have died from marijuana smoking?

yea, i don't know any either.
 
24Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:35 		FTR, I've never tried a volcano tho I've heard good things. I suspect they're better than the Herbal Aire (more precise temp controls are the key) but for double price.
 
25walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:36 		Party on, Obama! Pppplease, boldwin.

Gotcha MITH regarding location and pre-work. I'll do some reading first and then review your links and learn, and grow, and blossom, and then see what makes sense for moi. I've chilled in my age, but actually would prefer using something like this due to, (and this is for you Boldwin, can't you just feel the looove), health reasons.
 
26walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 14:39 		Oh, BTW MITH, when I said village, I was referring to West Village, even though East Village also adds up. In January, the mrs and I went to the cool IFC theater in the west village and on the way, it was just one head shop after another...that's what I was thinking, but now that you said it, there should be shops east and west downtown. I'll still read up and see what makes the most sense first. I really need one that'll fit into my coat pocket (aaar).
 
27Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 15:01 		Interesting. I'm not familiar with any shops in the west village. Christopher St.?
 
28walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 15:11 		Ummm, I think so, very close by if not on Christopher. Okay, either on Bleeker or nearby, and then, additionally, we were on a street going south, a few blocks away, and there were at least six shops back to back to back, too. I did not take note exactly where we were, but we were close to the IFC screening room (way cool theater).
 
29Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 15:30 		Boldwin
If you eliminate the carcinogens, what are the health risks?
 
30nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:10
Great movie, and as a huge Joy Division fan (not so much New Order) and Happy Mondays fan

Yeah I'm a huge Joy Div fan and feel about the same about the 1st New Order Records Ceremony, Movement and to a lesser extent Power Corruption and Lies. Movement was basically Joy Div without Ian.

Then they started losing the map... never really new anything about Happy Mondays until the movie.

 
31walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:21 		nerve, I actually saw Happy Mondays back in like 1988. At the 9:30 club in D.C. I did not know them, but they opened up for Jane's Addiction. The music was not as hard as I wanted, but I could not keep from movin'. And bez, bez....what a trip! All arms and legs and just dancing with his maraca thing. Unreal. I was supposed to see them in NYC last year, but the tour was canceled cos they could not obtain visa (those Ryders). Happy Mondays and Black Grape are near and dear.

But Joy Div even more so. I have to see "Control," but it'll be out on dvd soon, and that one I'll see straight away. I should seen it in the theater, but got lazy. It's supposed to be very good.
 
32nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:23
Just so I am on the record in terms of the intention of my post, I would fall into the category of "high risk" for cancer for well over a decade of my adult life based on this study.

At the same time I was telling incredulous friends "this can't be good to hold in your lungs" I was doing it.

I just want to be clear about my perspective and intentions.

I can say from experiencing longer then normal bouts of chest colds (weeks) that it was obvious that something wasn't right.

Anyone who denies it is lieing to themselves.

Part of the reason we don't know more, as the article alluded, since it's "illegal" there haven't been many studies done on the negative effects.

Never fear, the cannabis pill is coming and the stoners can be honest with themselves and do it in a less harmful way...if they care...as I sip on my vodka tonic... 8-}





 
33nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:25

Health warnings are wasted on MJ users. I have come to believe it's their favorite healthfood, no matter what study will ever be done saying otherwise.

Yeah I can't disagree...very similar to people who are addicted to religious mythology and has a similar side effects on their mental health... 8-}

 
34nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:49 		Walk

I should have added never really new anything about Happy Mondays until the movie

But was blown away by how they picked up the second half of the film and put it on their shoulders...quite inspiring.

Joy Division "Closer" remains one of my all time favorites...

 
35walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:52 		Well, nerve, ultimately, it's all a matter of degree, and harm. I don't think there are too many drugs, either legal or illegal, either medicinal or recreational, that don't have negative side effects on our bodies. I have no doubt, and I am sure there are others who agree, that alcohol is a far more dangerous drug, healthwise, than marijuana (and also a more dangerous drug behaviorally). However, I also don't doubt that pot has some negative side effects, healthwise (e.g. your example with colds).

At the end of the day, I think, and this is soooo lame, that drinking, smoking, in moderation aint gonna harm one's body that much more than otherwise, and that unless one ceases all forms of risky behavior (walking in NYC; driving in the burbs; eating fattening foods; not exercising; etc.), then it's really just not very fun to live without having a little fun. Of course, to each his/her own. I'm not suggesting that Boldwin has to do some bong hits to feel better about himself (well, then again...), but you know what I mean. "A little of this won't hurt ya."
 
36walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:56 		#34, nerve, gotcha. Kinda the way I felt when I saw them live, did not know who they were, and then ran out and bought some of their music and have liked them and their second band, Black Grape, ever since. In that movie, they were soooo loose, weird, and "whatever," and that producer (Tony...Wilson?) chose them over so many others. They seemingly singlehandedly shifted that whole Manchester scene from indie-rock (or whatever appropriate label) to rave/rock.

I originally found Joy Division in the 1990s, after their original glory, with one of their compilations, "Substance," but have Closer and just got the re-released, remastered "Unknown Pleasures."

BTW, if you don't have the sound track for 24 Hour Party People, I highly recommend it. Some good variety, and of course, a few Joy Div songs and many Happy Monday songs.
 
37biliruben
      ID: 5610442715
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 16:59 		Boldwin is paranoid enough.

All in moderation. Drinking in moderation, for example, decreases your risk of cardiovascular disease and increases your lifespan. Teetotalers have similar risks to those having 30 drinks a week.

If we were allowed to use marijuana in clinical trials, I wouldn't be surprised to see similar findings.

Sure, it probably has some smoking related risk, but I would guess there are benefits as well.
 
38Jag
      ID: 360261522
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 17:26 		I didn't realize there were so many potheads here, this explains a lot.
 
44nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:08
Bili moderation is the key no disagreement,...

The trick is maintaining that level.


 
45biliruben
      ID: 5610442715
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:13 		Three shots to the high-hat! Sweet, Nerve.

Yeah, lately I can't seem to keep my alcohol consumption to nearly high enough levels. Damn kid.
 
46biliruben
      ID: 5610442715
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:14 		Doh! What happened? Thought twice on the feeding of the troll?
 
47nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:16

Wow I just seriously self censored my response to Jag. (missing posts 39 to 43)

I must be getting old.

 
48nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:19

Three shots to the high-hat! Sweet, Nerve.

Yeah, lately I can't seem to keep my alcohol consumption to nearly high enough levels.

It was the alcohol feeding the high hat Bili...if it still sounds funny tomorrow I will repost...8-}

 
49nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:30

Bili Yeah, lately I can't seem to keep my alcohol consumption to nearly high enough levels

Funny thing about Dubai.

There are no "open" liquor stores. They don't even sell beer in convenience or grocery stores...You need a license to go into a liquor store and I don't have one.

Long story, part of the reason I don't have one is, you don't really need one. Why bother anyway when duty free is half the price

Anyway,

1) Muslim country,
2) no open liquor stores,

Yet I find myself being offered shots of Absinthe (serious absinthe) the last few weekends at clubs and I stare at a bulging liquor cabinet at home...

NY Times travel top party destination for 2008.

Just leave the cannabis at home...

 
50walk
      ID: 6016295
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 18:56 		Great thread. Jag, join us. You cannot resist. (think "lost boys").
 
51Tree
      ID: 40492918
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 19:53 		that might require him doing something new, which frightens him.

or, even more so, he might smoke a little herb, and suddenly finding him having a decent, reasonable conversation or even a debate with...*GASP*...a liberal!
 
52walk
      ID: 6016295
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 20:06 		I'd like to get one of these vapso. I've done a fair amount of perusing since getting home, but these items are not cheap. The MITH recommended herbal aire is still $250. Are there any other recommended one's for say $150 or less (recognizing I don't also want to get something unsafe or ineffective)...maybe the good one's just basically start at certain price. These web-sites are very amusing.
 
53Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 20:24 		The key is precise temp control. If it gets too hot, the herb starts to burn and some smoke mixes in with the the vapor. Still a vast reduction in tar and other nasties from pipe smoke or even bong smoke, but not optimal.
 
54walk
      ID: 6016295
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 20:27 		Right, precise temp control, so I guess the digital one's are preferred. I wish consumer reports would rate these things. Thinking of this one:

Vapir 5.0
 
55Tree
      ID: 40492918
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 20:46 		interesting that small handheld one.

i definitely fell in love with the Volcano when i used it, just really don't have the money to spend on a vaporizor that costs the same as a laptop. :o)

if you get that one Walk, let me know how it works out for ya...
 
56walk
      ID: 6016295
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 21:09 		Rightio, Tree. I'll let you know if I pull the trigger on this...I like the concept, however, price is difficult to rationalize right now.
 
57walk
      ID: 6016295
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 21:52 		The consumer reports of vaporizers?

better than nada
 
58Tree
      ID: 40492918
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 22:06 		walk - they REALLY hate the one you were looking at.

Bad vaporizer, one of the worst vaporizers we have ever seen.

lol
 
59holt
      ID: 360131020
      Tue, Jan 29, 2008, 22:21 		Smoking a joint is equivalent to 20 cigarettes

That's nothing new at all. I read that same claim at least 10, maybe 15 years ago.

Thing is, most people that smoke weed don't smoke a joint every day. That's a pretty fair amount to smoke all by yourself.

If weed wasn't illegal, everyone could easily purchase the good stuff, rather than the crap that is trucked up from mexico. The kind that only takes one or two hits to have an effect. That would be like smoking less than one cigarette. This study should be flushed down the toilet along with all the other reefer madness crap.
 
60nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 00:20

Thing is, most people that smoke weed don't smoke a joint every day. That's a pretty fair amount to smoke all by yourself.

Apparently you hang out with a different crowd then I did.

If weed wasn't illegal, everyone could easily purchase the good stuff, rather than the crap that is trucked up from mexico.

Holt I don't know where you live but I haven't seen Mexican since I was 16...and that was decades ago. The only thing I ever saw in my adult live was top shelf USA grown premo, bionic, skunk.

 
61Tree
      ID: 1024305
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 06:30 		i think i have to agree with NC on this.

while not a daily smoker myself, most of the people i know who do smoke are daily smokers. it might be a joint or two, it might be a few bowls, but it is daily.

it's also people from all walks of life. among those i know who smoke daily are a college student, a bartender, a farmer, and a long-time high school teacher.

very close friends of mine, she a graphic designer, he a junior high school teacher, and both of them very serious church goers who go every sunday and even host weekly bible study sessions in their home, have inquired to me as to where they might buy some weed, because they'd like to smoke a bit more.

and regarding Mexican - it's the same for myself and the people i know. there is GREAT stuff out there. sometimes, you'll get some schwag, but as an adult, you tend to know who has the better weed, and for me, my preference is toward things coming from the west coast of Canada...
 
62holt
      ID: 360131020
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 07:21 		People who have regular access to high quality weed most likely aren't smoking a whole joint by themself. There is no need to. I'm talking about the kind where one or two hits and you're good to go. If it's shwag then sure, they may smoke the equivalent of several J's a day no prob.

Most of what is available around here is shwag. Occasionally something special pops up, but not often. I'm not ignorant of what is available either. I know a lot of people who smoke weed here on a daily basis and they all want something better. When something good turns up word gets around. I live in shwag country. Probably has something to do with the weekly full-scale, 6 a.m., no-knock, multi-agency drug raids (guess they ran out of meth labs to take down).

Anyway, I don't have any interest in arguing about what is a normal smoking habit. All I'm trying to say is that if weed is legalized, then a lot of us will have access to higher quality weed and we won't have to inhale near as much smoke just to get a buzz.
 
63 Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 07:30 		Holt

Been trying to contact you.
 
64biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 09:23 		After 62, I find 63 funny!
 
65Boldwin
      ID: 1055190
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 09:38 		Bili

Took the words right out of my mouth. Wasn't sure if I should point it out however.

 
66 holt
      ID: 360131020
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 09:53 		yes!

:D
 
67sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 09:59 		after 62-63, I have this image of an old skit...



Holts not here...



;)
 
68Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 10:41 		Yeesh.
 
69nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 12:49

Holt where the heck do you live?

I don't even remember what shawg looks like, except it actually has seeds, something else I haven't seen in decades.

Seriously dude what part of the country do you live in?

 
70walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 12:52 		Great thread, duuuuuuuuudes.
 
71sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 12:54 		hey...you gonna eat that twinkie?
 
72mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 13:33 		It has long been my opinion that they legalized the wrong mind altering substance. (Can't bring myself to call them drugs.)
 
73walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 13:39 		Tooooooooootaaaaaaaaaally, agree mjd. And as long as there's an alcohol lobby, they aint gonna let cannabis in on the spoils either.
 
74mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 14:00 		Damn shame, too. It'd be a win-win situation. We'd get the good stuff at a decent price and the government could tax the crap out of it.
 
75walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 14:08 		I'd be okay with that...and you'd take away the legality risks, too.
 
76Jag
      ID: 360261522
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 16:35 		I have to give you guys credit, finally a topic where you guys are more knowledgable than Boxman, Boldwin and myself.
 
77nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 16:36

I'd be okay with that...and you'd take away the legality risks, too.

If that is really your concern just move to Seattle or SF..they pretty much don't care if you smoke walking down the street in SF. Oh they might tell you to put it out, or hassle you if you are a street dealer in the Haight.

It was rare that a day didn't go by there that I didn't pass someone smoking on a busy street.

Not to mention the 30+ legal pot "pharmacies"

 
78mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 18:18 		Unfortunately, the Feds still have a major hard on for these places.

link
 
79Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 19:25 		I have to give you guys credit, finally a topic where you guys are more knowledgable than Boxman, Boldwin and myself.

I've been stunned into silence. I never thought the liberals on this board knew this much about anything.

Their mass drug addiction really does explain a lot about their politics and why they believe what they do. They're stoned.
 
80Boxman
      ID: 571114225
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 19:29 		Jag, notice how the thread topic is about the cancer risk of cannabis compared to cigarettes. They've gone off topic dozens of posts ago but nobody is bitching about it or telling anyone that "This has been debunked in a previous thread." or "It is now beyond dispute".

Now I know what Billy felt like in the movie Gremlins when he and Gizmo stumbled upon the movie theater full of Gremlins. Just one huge WTF.

If I post a picture of a bag of Cheetos, who do you think will be the first one to lick their monitor? I might post a picture of french onion dip just so Seattle Zen pokes his monitor with chips and get pissed off because they're breaking in the dip.
 
81Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 19:58 		I keep getting reminded of the South Park episode "Ike's Wee Wee".

Mr. Freeley: Drugs are an illegal narcotic! And having never taken drugs, I can say that they have nothing to offer!

Mr. Freeley: I've never taken drugs, and look at me! I'm totally fine!

 
82Tree
      ID: 560233015
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 19:58 		Jag, notice how the thread topic is about the cancer risk of cannabis compared to cigarettes. They've gone off topic dozens of posts ago but nobody is bitching about it or telling anyone that "This has been debunked in a previous thread." or "It is now beyond dispute".

the vast majority of the posts in this thread have been marijuana, or drug, related.

btw, you must have missed post 15, where bili basically called the study bunk - i.e. he was debunking it.

I never thought the liberals on this board knew this much about anything.

funny to compare this to your post in the other thread, where you discussed trolling.

If I post a picture of a bag of Cheetos, who do you think will be the first one to lick their monitor? I might post a picture of french onion dip just so Seattle Zen pokes his monitor with chips and get pissed off because they're breaking in the dip.

and that one too.

 
83Great One
      ID: 19057139
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 20:08 		Where is SZ anyway?!
 
84Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 20:52 		They've gone off topic dozens of posts ago

Actually, the cost and effectiveness of vaporizors is very much on topic. Further, it's not a very extensive topic, frankly. There have been very few studies and most of the info out there has already been vtted here with very few topical disagreements in the discussion. And certainly not similar at all to a topic that evolves with the news cycle, like discussions about a legislative battle or a Presidential election or a war debate.

But by all means, keep trying. Eventually your desperate and pathetic search for something legitimate to bitch about will turn something up. In the process, please continue to toss about off-topic ad hominem and whine about unfairness like a catty teenie bopper with no date to the prom.
 
85walk
      ID: 6016295
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 21:39 		Not exactly. After much research, I will acquire an herbalaire2.1. Thanks for the help. I have a condition, you know...(asthma).
 
86Tree
      ID: 560233015
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 21:52 		i'll be over next week.

what made you choose that one?
 
87holt
      ID: 360131020
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:13 		"munchie" jokes. An ignorant stereotype. I've seen someone get the munchies while high maybe once every thousand times. Probably had nothing to do with the weed.

NC - I live in Oklahoma. Trust me, what you find in California bears no resemblance to 99% of what you'll find in the Midwest.

Legalization isn't really a left/right topic. I'm more conservative than I am liberal, but I am very much for legalization (as are the editors of the National Review), and apparently the Democrat-led congress is opposed to legalization. Sure, most evangelicals are against it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a left/right issue.

Boxman, it might be nice and tidy to lump all "pro-weeders" into a pro-abortion, anti-gun, tax and spend atheist pile, but it would simply be inaccurate. You might be surprised to find that people of all walks of life find some value in marijuana. Don't be scared of it. It's not the Devil.
 
88WiddleAvi
      ID: 251113917
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:20 		Just curious....For Boxman, Jag,& Boldwin - What are your views on Alcohol and prohibition ? Should Alcohol be illegal ?
 
89sarge33rd
      ID: 76442923
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:28 		FTR...As in the skit reference, I was thinking of Cheech and Chong. Its a line in one of the movies too, when the cop stops the van made of grass and the exhaust pipe has the back of the van smoldering away.
 
90 Tree
      ID: 560233015
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:44 		Holt - i emailed you about fantasy baseball. we're nearly at the keeper deadline, so i hope you find the email!
 
91Pancho Villa
      ID: 47161721
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:53 		#87

That's a great post, Holt. Let's hear your opinions on other issues.
 
92holt
      ID: 360131020
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 22:59 		ok tree I'll check it out.

sarge, now I remember it.
"Dave's not here".
"NO MAN! I am Dave!"

 
93holt
      ID: 360131020
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 23:11 		haha PV, I usually steer clear of the politics forum because the strongest political belief I hold is that the two-party system is a scourge of epic proportions. All other political beliefs I hold pale in comparison. As long as Dems/Reps run the country, it just doesn't seem pragmatic for me to spend much time debating political issues. It's just spinning wheels. That's the way I see it anyway.
 
94Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 23:15 		Holt, waiting to hear from you as well.
 
95mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Jan 30, 2008, 23:29 		I'm conservative on most issues, but liberal on many other's including legalization/decriminalization of marijuana. I've been smoking it to alleviate symptoms of MS for 5 years now. Since I'm an everyday user, I'm definitely buying a vaporizer, as the smoke reeks havoc with my sinuses. Still trying to figure out which one will suit my purposes the best. I did buy a ubie to sample the smokeless experience. It worked pretty good, but not nearly as efficient as the vaporizers discussed here.

I'm a former health care provider and I know several former peers who imbibe on a recreational basis. I've also partied with friends one who is a cop, another an electrician, another a building contractor. Many of the same have quit because of the serious consequences and hassles of a positive drug test. But the one's who do smoke, do it with or instead of that after work cocktail. And they don't walk around stoned all day.

There's a time and a place.......
 
96holt
      ID: 360131020
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 03:14 		Exactly. Most everyone I know who uses it does so only in their own free time. Watching tv, playing guitar, playing video games, reading, etc.

Anyway, back on topic, I remember reading a study a year or two ago that stated that cannabis smoke is less carcinogenic than tobacco smoke. basically, it's because of the way that nicotine interacts with the body. it also stated that marijuana has been shown to actually prevent some forms of tumors by inhibiting the growth of blood vessels that help them form. the catch was that if you smoked both tobacco and cannabis that the helpful aspects of cannabis would be negated. Sorry I don't know who performed the study but I'm sure you can google it.
 
97walk
      ID: 4003315
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 06:07 		Well said, mjd. Although watching "Harold & Kumar white castle" reminded me of the "good old days." That movie was a great throwback to the cheech & chong flicks, and I am a movie snob!

MITH. I chose the herbalaire2.1 cos, after much research, there seemed to be some consensus that it was a quality product that was relatively easy to use. Some websites that reviewed these things were bogus, and some seemed legit. I found some discussion forums, too, and that helps. I was initially going to get a $150 range model like the vapolution or hot box, as recommended by some dudes I called at Vaporizer Giant, as well as some positive reviews, but then I thought if I was going to spend a couple a hunnerd bucks, I might as well get the best one for the mone, short of the esteemed volcano. Hence, the herbalaire.
 
98Tree
      ID: 35024315
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 06:27 		Walk - obviously let us know your personal reviews.

regarding H&K - i was late to the show, only seeing the movie within the last 6 months or so, but man, what a movie it was. certainly one of the funniest films i've seen in a long time, and neil patrick harris was outstanding in his cameo-style role. and of course, the two jewish characters were hysterical as well.

i can't wait for the sequel.
 
99nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 06:37

Off Topic sorry but I an't resist.


Holt two-party system is a scourge of epic proportions. All other political beliefs I hold pale in comparison. As long as Dems/Reps run the country, it just doesn't seem pragmatic for me to spend much time debating political issues. It's just spinning wheels. That's the way I see it anyway.


Weird, I could have written those exact words to describe my political philosophy. I've only voted for one Dem and no Repubs since voting for Prez in 1980 and I have never missed an election.

 
100nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 06:40


Box there are conservatives who smoke pot, they just can't afford politically to admit it in public.

If I post a picture of a bag of Cheetos, who do you think will be the first one to lick their monitor? I might post a picture of french onion dip just so Seattle Zen pokes his monitor with chips and get pissed off because they're breaking in the dip.

That's actually pretty funny. Especially the french dip part.



 
101walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 09:44 		Tree, will do. H&K -- I laughed so hard so much. Hey, H&K Escape from Guantanamo Bay (Go to Amsterdam) should be out in April, too. Neil Patrick Harris is in it, again.

Harold & Kumar, IMDB
 
102Seattle Zen
      ID: 529121611
      Thu, Jan 31, 2008, 23:30 		Boxman -

I wonder, does it not enter into your little mind that all of these supposed "pot heads" are so much smarter and more eloquent than you? I mean, the stereotype you are desperately clinging to, that pot makes you stupid, really is an embarrassing statement of your own intelligence. If pot makes you so dumb, why do MITH's, biliruben's, walk's, tree's, and my posts make yours look like a third grader from Bangladesh trying, without much success, to practice his English?

If I post a picture of a bag of Cheetos, who do you think will be the first one to lick their monitor? I might post a picture of french onion dip just so Seattle Zen pokes his monitor with chips and get pissed off because they're breaking in the dip.

You do realize that if we were to enter an essay writing contest, you would be humiliated. I could finish judging a Cannabis Cup, sit down and knock out an essay that would destroy you, I'd even spot you ten points. Hell, I'd judge each category - Indica, Sativa, and hash and still charm the pants off the judges. See, most people don't find your ham-fisted, sophomoric put downs funny. Similarly, most people don't find humor in painting the Catholic church as nothing more than a collection people lead by pedophiles.

Where is SZ anyway?!

I have been in Mexico. Once I heard that we were going to be getting a cash prize from the Feds to stimulate our economy, I decided to spend it before I got it on overseas goods, like most Americans.

Vaporizers. I've used a number of different ones and they all pale in comparison to the Volcano. Even at $420, it's worth it. As MITH notes, cheap ones often overheat and the smell you get from the bud is NASTY.

I also agree with Bili that vaporizers do not get you as high. They simply are not as efficient. I know someone who uses a Volcano and then captures the remaining THC and uses it in baked goods. His cookies are quite strong, so there certainly is some THC left over. Now, if you are a grower and you have buds coming out of your ears, sure, a vaporizer is great. Likewise, if you are a medical marijuana patient, you have to consume amazing amounts of marijuana and it is just healthier. I know a few patients who smoke an ounce a week, which is mind boggling, and some use vaporizers, some don't.

As for the supposed "scientific" study Nerve linked, I am extremely skeptical. I think we can all agree that a "beer" is 12 ounces of beer. What is a joint? Self reporting? There have been studies done here in the US that show that people who smoke cigarettes and marijuana have no increased risk for lung cancer, yes, if you smoke cigarettes, you should also smoke marijuana because you will have the same cancer risk as someone who smokes nothing. In short, there is a lot of studying of cannabis smoke and lung cancer to be done and I've said in the past that I believe that some day marijuana smoke will be shown to fight cancer.
 
103walk
      ID: 2530286
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 09:37 		Holy cow, an ounce a week! Man, those folks sure must be ill. So sad.

SZ, great post regarding the pothead stereotype. There are stereotypical pothead, and there are stereotypical alcoholics. I think most people are recreational drinkers and users, and therefore, the stereotypes are just that, inappropriate and applicable to the extremes. I'd rather know and hangout with a true-blue pothead though than a true blue alcoholic anyday, too.

SZ, have you tried the herbalaire? If so, does it really pale in comparison to the volcano? I'd be bummed to hear it, but need to ask, cos I'm gonna get an herbal aire. I read so many reviews that while, in general, it's not as good as a volcano, it's still (very) good. I'm hoping for a toyota in comparison to say a lexus (both made by toyota, d'oh!, I know). I just need a good, solid product, but not necessarily the ultimate.
 
104holt
      ID: 360131020
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 09:53 		The researchers interviewed 79 lung cancer patients and sought to identify the main risk factors for the disease, such as smoking, family history and occupation. The patients were questioned about alcohol and cannabis consumption.

In this high-exposure group, lung cancer risk rose by 5.7 times for patients who smoked more than a joint a day for 10 years, or two joints a day for 5 years, after adjusting for other variables, including cigarette smoking.

Couple of thoughts come to mind. First, a sample size of 79 people is too small. Second, how many of those 79 fell into the category of 2 joints a day for 5 years? Certainly not enough to come to any definitive conclusion.

"In this high-exposure group, lung cancer risk rose by 5.7 times"

How can their lung cancer risk be higher than anyone else in the study? Everyone in the study already has lung cancer. I mean I think I can guess what they were trying to say here, but, ah nevermind.

Since the study was so small, why don't they just come right out and list how many of the 79 were heavy pot smokers? Probably because when you say 8 of the 79 used pot heavily, the numbers are so obviously small that anyone can tell that you don't have enough data to make any kind of real conclusion.

You need a much larger study, and preferably not just a study of New Zealanders.
 
105holt
      ID: 360131020
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 10:11 		Just looked it up in the journal (horribly written article btw). 324 controls were in the study.

I have to wonder, are the control subjects as likely to be truthful about their alcohol and drug use as the cancer patients, and also, aren't people who smoke cigarettes more likely to use marijuana than non-smokers?

here's the pdf
http://erj.ersjournals.com/cgi/reprint/31/2/280.pdf
 
106Seattle Zen
      ID: 529121611
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 10:44 		SZ, have you tried the herbalaire?

I have not, nor have I even heard of it before now. Hope you like it and give it a review after you have used it for a while.

 
107biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 12:36 		A quick scan of the paper for my major misgivings:

A total of 493 controls were contacted and invited for interview, and 324 (66%) agreed to participate.

That's not a very good participation rate. If you look at the risk factors for cases and controls, they show controls were of a much higher SES, and lived a much healthier life-style overall than the cases. You can attempt to control for these issues in the analysis but there are always going to be correlates of unhealthy living that are associated with case-control status as well as lung cancer that you are not going to be able to assess. For instance, if you believe second-hand smoke is associated with lung-cancer, frequenting or working in places with a higher incidence of SHS would probably correlate highly with SES. Similarly with workplaces where exposures to noxious fumes, particulates and asbestos may be prevalent.

Also, face-to-face interviews are notorious for the rate of under-reporting of stigmatized risk factors such as alcohol, drugs and smoking.

Finally, though it wasn't quite as bad as I thought, the numbers in the high risk group were small (14 cases, 4 controls) and hence the the 95% CI extremely wide (1.5-21.6).

Overall, I think the biggest flaw is the large number control participants declining to participate. Anybody smoking large amounts of dope every day, is pretty unlikely to invite someone into their home for an interview.
 
108walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:14 		bili KNOWS this shiit. A toke for you, man.
 
109Myboyjack
      ID: 56039812
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:19 		So, do y'all believe that nerve's "study" has been debunked?
 
110biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 13:26 		No. I am simply pointing out it's limitations. I didn't read the discussion, but my guess is they probably mentioned at least some of these points themselves.
 
111nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 14:28

OK so getting back on topic.

Bili thanks for the break down and analysis.

That having been said, it's always been one of my, ummm, pet peeves about my fellow smokers that they denied the very high probability, that, used long term on a very regular basis, there were likely negative repercussions.

For example. When I was a smoker and caught a "chest cold" (frequently) it would often last for weeks. Heavy coughing, lots of phlegm, loud hacking cough.

You know what, once I stopped smoking, all these symptoms stopped. I can't remember the last time I caught a "chest cold".

Now I know as Bili pointed out, that 1 person is a small "test case".

I'm also smart enough to be honest with myself, and I always was, even when I smoked. In fact I believe I even discussed this with Zen in Seattle one night...over a smoke.

When I smoked...

1) I had a heavy hacking cough.
2) Chest colds lasted for weeks.
3) All symptoms stopped when I quit.

I believe the 3 statements to be fact and I don't care how small the test group is.

Now I conclude from this that the human lung/throat probably wasn't meant to inhale and hold, hold it, don't let it out, hold it, hold it coughhhhs...

Sorry, just not what human biology was designed for.

As far as addiction goes I was absolutely addicted. It wasn't a physical addiction like heroin withdrawal but there were consequences if I tried not to smoke. I still have the same symptoms with alcohol...I can't sleep.

If I didn't have a hit before bed I would stare at the ceiling for hours...this went on for years so...I smoked every night. I would even say to myself...you know self, if you don't smoke you won't sleep tonight.

Sorry, that's an addiction.

Now I'm not anti cannabis.

I will smoke it again in my life.

I don't think that the recreational use, as long as it's not consistent and especially excessive amounts consistently, is bad for you. I want it legalized and sold like alcohol. I think if it's used in reasonable doses as a replacement for alcohol abuse it's a positive...I believe all of that...

But I never kidded myself that the hacking cough (The kind that was so "thick" you could feel your lungs) and 3 week chest colds were a plus for my health. I never thought the phlegm I hacked up was "normal". I didn't kid myself.

Yeah the test groups are small. No one seems to want to do the heavy lifting for cannabis health research, it's a pity.

All that having been said...I don't think there's anything at all wrong or unintelligent about limited responsible use.




 
112mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:02 		As an everyday medicinal user, I've actually been forced to take days off when I have a bad cold due to excess coughing and chest congestion. It can be pretty miserable suffering with a severe cold and painful muscle spasms.

I usually have an excellent quality supply and if that's the case, I'm usually only doing 8-10 hits per day to maintain a therapeutic effect, so I can make an ounce last for months.

I think I'm just allergic to the smoke itself. I don't tolerate cigarette smoke at all. Wintertime is definitely the worst, as chest cold symptoms can linger for weeks.

I did order the herbalaire vaporizer and though I do plan to continue smoking, I will use the vaporizer so I can smoke at least a little less.
 
113walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:31 		Nice one, nerve. Can't argue with your reasoning; your sample size is the most relevant for you. And, I would agree, if you needed a hit to sleep, you had an addiction. The need is the key.
 
114walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:33 		From what they say, the vapo is the potential answer for the issues you and nerve discuss, holt. I think that's the reason I want to try this out...smoke of any kinda cannot be good for the respiratory tract. In moderation, it prolly is not biggie, but if it can be avoided with this vapo stuff, whether it's moderation or heavy use, then it seems to be an obvious solution.
 
115walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:34 		Whooops, sorry mjd, I said holt when I meant to refer to you, mjd, in #114.
 
116mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 15:58 		NP, walk, I knew what you meant. And thanks to you and several others for input on this thread. I just spent the majority of December with a bad cold and coincidently was looking for a viable alternative to smoking.

I've tried a dozen different meds for the muscle spasms and nothing even comes close to relieving them. Fortunately, they usually don't become problematic until later in the day, so I usually don't start treating them until 4 or 5 PM. But it is easier to avoid the spasms completely if I begin treatment before they get started.

At least this way I have the early part of the day to get stuff done before I get wasted.
 
117walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 16:10 		Makes sense, mjd. I sure ghope you get some relief, whatever you do to help yourself. And, I hope the vapo approach is succesful on both counts, relief, sans smoke/colds. best, - walk
 
118TacoJohn
      ID: 590291817
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 16:17 		I didn't read this whole thread but nowhere in the article does it say that marijuana presents a higher risk of lung cancer than tobacco.

It's saying marijuana presents a higher risk than nothing. As for the fact that a joint is worse for you than a cigarette everyone knows that, but cigarettes are consumed in much greater quantity.
 
119walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 16:31 		TacoJohn. Welcome. Good points on the details there. You must've been straight when you read (sorry, spirit of the thread)... ;-)
 
120nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 17:34
MJD

I wish you the best.

To me the biggest shame for this country is that there are people like you, who desperately need this medication, who risk imprisonment because of the stupidity of the Feds...including Bill Clinton who asked the Feds to enforce laws against med cannabis users.

In Sf I was shown how to get a "prescription" for cannabis... "just say you have this or that".

I refused.

I want the people with the true health issues to get the care they need and not have the liars jeopardize that much needed relief.

Fortunately, the USA is a free enough country where the consequences would likely be limited if you were caught....unlike other countries where one joint will get you 4 years.


 
121holt
      ID: 360131020
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 18:10 		I saw a medicinal marijuana vending machine on the news just a couple days ago. a VENDING MACHINE. omg. It actually had selections for different types. If that vending machine were here in Bible Belt, Oklahoma for just one day... well, the line would be so long the damn thing would probably be empty before I got to use it.


This would be a good time to observe a moment of silence for the great Harry Anslinger (May 20, 1892 – November 14, 1975), Commissioner of the Treasury Department's Federal Bureau of Narcotics from 1930-1962. Here are some great quotes to remember him by:

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

"Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

"Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing"

"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother."

"Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
 
122sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 18:47 		saw an article on those too Holt. They work on a pre-paid premise AND require a finger-print ID verification before dispensing a single joint; whiwch they will only do once every 24 hours. (IIRC from the article.) Seems they are net-worked, so getting a joint from one machine, will invalidate all machines for the immediately following 24 hrs.
 
123holt
      ID: 360131020
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:11 		Interesting. The one I saw also had a guard. Seems like an extravagant setup. I mean, for all the hassle of doing what it takes to be able to purchase from the machine, why not just go buy it the normal way. Or better yet, put these machines in every city in America and allow open access to all. Sorry, I can't resist.
 
124Texas Flood
      ID: 37082014
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:13 		Personally I think if you smoke anything you're a complete fool. I
watched my sister die of lung cancer at age 48, it's not pretty. Of
course things like this only happen to other people, so if you
smoke feel free to continue.
 
125biliruben
      ID: 4911361723
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:15 		Edit:

You can attempt to control for these issues in the analysis but there are always going to be correlates of unhealthy living that are associated with case-control status as well as lung cancer pot smoking that you are not going to be able to assess.
 
126holt
      ID: 360131020
      Fri, Feb 01, 2008, 19:32 		Texas Flood, sorry to hear about your sister. Very unfortunate. The thing is, people do dangerous things every day. Driving, junk food, crossing the street, for example. I also wouldn't advise anyone to use pot heavily. Moderation/caution in most everything is good.
 
127nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sat, Feb 02, 2008, 14:58
Texas sorry to hear that. My father has many health problems from cigarettes (Throat cancer 10 years ago, heart attack, numbness in legs due to lack of oxygen due to damaged lungs) but somehow has made it to 76.

I do think you are right to point out the potential danger and it behoves all of us to consider it and monitor our bad habits.

The vaporizer seems at least like a step in the right direction...moderation likely being the most important key.

I do wish someone would take on a large study of the effects once and for all so we know the deal.

 
128walk
      ID: 141365
      Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 23:03 		Got the herbalaire a few days back. Bill Maher is on right now...the timing is excellent. Smooooooooooooooooth and effective show he has on right now.
 
129Boldwin
      ID: 3013265
      Fri, Feb 08, 2008, 23:34 		Where will they ever find the guinee pigs?
 
130nerveclinic
      ID: 105222
      Sun, Feb 10, 2008, 15:03

Where will they ever find the guinee pigs?

Have you tried it much Baldone?

 
131Jag
      ID: 5112883
      Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 05:18 		Bill Maher is becoming a crazy fanatic. He tells everyone how bad legal drugs are and then defends to the hilt, illegal ones. The guy has lost touch with reality.
 
132walk
      ID: 221481011
      Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 06:16 		Jag, please, stop being intentionally simplistic. Why don't you raise this point directly to Maher during "overtime" and see if you are satisfied with his response..? You know he is against our medical model, which prescribes Rx as cures for disease instead of folks practicing good overall wellness (preventative), while he is for recreational drugs which are just freakin fun. There are many ways to have fun, and he chooses weed.

Without your bogus outrage, I do see the inherent inconsistency in his view as smoking anything cannot be considered "healthy." However, what's more important is the overall point of how pharma companies get their way with the gov't in "pushing" a "fix it" model of prescription drugs as the chief means for folks to maintain wellness, all the while the fast food nation industry pushes incredibly fatty, salty and malnutritious food, tobacco is still legal, and the Rx drugs themsleves, overprescribed and mixed, are what helps cause or at least contribute to illness and disease (coronary heart disease, lung cancer, diabetes, etc.) in the first place
 
133Jag
      ID: 5112883
      Mon, Feb 11, 2008, 23:04 		I watch his show manly to see how the enemy is doing. He has gone from a fairly moderate satorialist to a nut job. I love it when he talks about how people stay sick because they take medicine that relieves symptons and by not cough and sneezing we are keeping all the germs inside us.

I feel a cold coming on. Can you pull my finger Walk? I need to release some bad mojo from my system.