Forum: pol
Page 3091
Subject: 2008 In Season Baseball Thread

  Posted by: nerveclinic - [105222] Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 01:27

Since the we aren't really discussing the draft anymore.

 
1nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 01:28

Let me start with this.

The invincible JJ Putz blows a save at home and ruins a 7 inning no ER gem from my boy Felix.

What's up JJ? is this a sign of things to come?

 
2nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 02:39

Pedro Martinez walked off the mound with a leg injury...

Bosox seem vindicated not keeping him considering all the injuries he's had with the Met's on top of a 56 mil(?) contract.

It was a big debate/controversy at the time, no debate now.

 
3Boldwin
ID: 733521
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 05:21 		Kerry Wood burning out fast. What new?
 
4Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 22:37 		SZ's DEMIGOD brought back to Earth.

Nice run support for Hamels, Phils.
 
5Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 22:45 		Yeah, I figured I to gloat Monday as that may be the only thing he does right this year, sigh.
 
6Boldwin
ID: 12341213
Wed, Apr 02, 2008, 23:27 		My Zimmerman performing the coup-de-gras 8]
 
7Tree
ID: 32327217
Thu, Apr 03, 2008, 00:02 		and Yunel Escobar is looking like the best 17th round draft pick ever...

or whatever round i took him in...
 
8Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Thu, Apr 03, 2008, 22:48 		See, Tree, you didn't really want that Cueto guy, did ya?
 
9Tree
ID: 234319
Thu, Apr 03, 2008, 23:38 		you would do well to not bring this travesty up again.
 
10Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Sat, Apr 05, 2008, 07:56 		I've promoted Johnny Cueto.
 
11Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Sun, Apr 06, 2008, 20:03 		Oh, Brandon Lyon, how i love thee, let me count the blown saves...
 
12nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 07, 2008, 11:46

By the way Franklin Morales was the prospect I was trying to pick up during the prospect draft, i.e. telling everyone to hurry.

He pitched 6 innings of 2 hit shut out baseball IN Colorado yesterday.

 
13Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Mon, Apr 07, 2008, 12:34 		If I remember correctly, the reason we went with a Plus League was that some were under the impression that the commish could lock out certain players from being picked up on waivers or as free agents. Do we know if we're able to do that?
 
14Perm Dude
ID: 4032378
Mon, Apr 07, 2008, 12:45 		Not that I can find. However, I'll post a list of prospects in the Commish note.
 
15nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 07, 2008, 13:06
By the way, when you see me make bonehead moves...

like not playing Snell yesterday (W, 10K's, 1,50 era, .67 whip)

or Gorzellany today (Don't know yet if it will be a bonehead move)

It's not because I am 10,000 miles away, not paying attention.

It's because I actually entertain myself as having the ability to tell what isn't a good match up.

Mr. Snell threw a spitball right at that theory.

 
16Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Mon, Apr 07, 2008, 15:29 		Well, you certainly know when to play Nick Markakis. He came into today's game against Carlos Silva batting .667 against him with 3 homers in nine at bats, giving him a 1.889 SLG.

He hit a double in his first at bat. Anything less and his SLG percentage drops!
 
17nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 03:34
And benching Gorz with his 27.00 ERA worked out.

Zen you're not looking at my cheat sheets are you? 8-}

 
18Perm Dude
ID: 4032378
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 10:24 		Cutting & pasting my Commish Note:

Prospects: Elvis Andrus, Gorkys Hernandez, Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, Mark Pawelek, Cameron Maybin, Colby Rasmus, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clayton Kershaw, Jeff Clement, Justin Upton, Phillip Hughes, David Price, Felix Pie, Reid Brignac, Angel Villalona, Evan Longoria, Andy Laroche, Carlos Gomez, Adam Miller, Nick Adenhart, Ryan Sweeney, Andrew Miller, Jeff Baker, Jose Tabata, Carlos Gonzalez, Fernando Martinez, Dexter Fowler, Johnny Cueto, Carlos Carrasco, Travis Snider, Matt Wieters, Jed Lowrie, Fautino De Los Santos, Pedro Alvarez, Andrew McCuthen, Chase Headley, Brandon Wood, Rick Porcello, Jason Nix, Chin-Lung Hu, Brent Lillibridge, Taylor Teagarden, Jacob McGee, Edinson Volquez, Wladimir Balentien, Mike Moustakas, Jair Jurjjens, Jarrod Parker, Jordan Schafer, Steven Pearce, Kevin Slowey, Tim Beckham, Desmond Jennings, some Japanese guy you never heard of for Zen, Ian Stewart, Gio Gonzalez, Matt Antonelli, Kyle Blanks, Blake Beavan, Jason Hayward, Asdrubal Cabrera, Wade Davis, Brian Matusz, Shelley Duncan, Alexei Ramirez, Brandon Moss, Koji Uehara.

Note: Kosuke Fukudome and Josh Hamilton are currently on a roster, and may be picked up off waivers by any team if dropped.
 
19Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 10:38 		Add Johnny Cueto to the list of called-up prospects.
 
20nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 11:14
Note: Kosuke Fukudome and Josh Hamilton are currently on a roster, and may be picked up off waivers by any team if dropped.

Huh, yeah, what are the odds of that?
 
21Perm Dude
ID: 4032378
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 11:37 		Yeah, unlikely! But Baldwin lost Joakim Soria last year because of this, so it isn't unheard of.
 
22Baldwin
ID: 39358714
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 15:52 		There you go. Rub salt in the wound. ;>
 
23nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 17:00
Fukudome looks like a great pick Baldy, don't drop him. 8-]

 
24Baldwin
ID: 39358714
Tue, Apr 08, 2008, 17:31 		Lol, no that wasn't gonna happen.
 
25Perm Dude
ID: 5031696
Wed, Apr 09, 2008, 13:52 		Jordan Schafer suspended 50 games for HGH use
 
26Tree
ID: 513181023
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 14:19 		Wiggs - please drop Carlos Gomez. he's my prospect.

thanks.
 
27Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 17:40 		Comfortably leading one expert keeper league and bottoming out in the other. Obviously I was aiming for the same players in both.

I think in this one I have maybe 2 batters batting over .210 and my best pitcher started injured, my 2 closers cratering or DL'd. Thems the breaks.
 
28Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 11:54 		Commish

Looks like you need to remove Gomez from Wiggs' roster yourself. I'm disappointed in Wiggs right now, he has three players on the DL and he hasn't replaced them. This team doesn't seem very high on his list of priorities.
 
29Perm Dude
ID: 420241913
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 13:38 		I think he's now working two jobs. I'll drop him a note right now. Gomez isn't on his active roster.
 
30Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 13:40 		I sent him an e-mail and he replied.
 
31wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 00:59 		Zen, we chatted on email and i told you my situation. I really wish you didnt bring it up here to bust my balls. I was working on a trade for a 3b, but it didnt go through. There really isnt alot of talent on the WW in my opinion. My DL guy were not starting so what the hell difference does it make if I have them on DL or not? I have check the team on a daily basis and that is all I can do. Remember Kaz, and Granderson havent even played this year, and beckett started on the DL, Not the best start for me, but nothing to do with not paying attention.
 
32wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 01:01 		BTW i removed gomez from my team myself. I didnt realize he was a prospect and I removed him as soon as some one said something, he was on my team less then a day, and never entered my starting roster. It was a simple mistake.
 
33Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 14:16 		Sorry, Wiggs, I posted here before sending you the e-mail. Yes, you have had some poor luck this April. Hope things pick up for you and I'm glad you are not abandoning ship.
 
34Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Thu, Apr 17, 2008, 14:48 		I don't think you can call CC's season an "implosion" as they generally don't affect things around them. So far he has exploded like the Fat Guy in the restaurant in Monty Python's Meaning of Life leaving blood, guts and puss all over the rest of the dugout. Too bad Tree didn't keep him :)

If that wasn't bad enough, Punk gets this news today.

Miguel Tejada is actually 33 years old, not 31.
 
35PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Thu, Apr 17, 2008, 14:50 		How are we still finding out that players ages are wrong after all this time?
 
36Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Apr 17, 2008, 15:07 		i'm not sure if i would keep any SP not named Santana and wearing a Mets uniform and being paid an absurd amount.

my line up was just too deep, and i prefered to keep closers over starters. that being said, i tried like mad to trade up in the draft to get Sabathia. but, so far, it's looking ok that i didn't get him.
 
37PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Thu, Apr 17, 2008, 15:13 		Of course it is
 
38Tree
ID: 3533298
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 09:36 		Baldwin - are you on email at ALL?

i've sent a couple trade offers your way, to no response.
 
39Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 10:47 		Tree

My wife made me aware yesterday about the e-mail which I assumed was a follow-up to the offer I knew about or the auto-mailer notification. I planned on looking thru her box this morning.

About the only offer I am aware of, my gut isn't moving me in that direction but I am giving it time. My problem is that until my batting averages normalize and my closers start closing I can't even tell if I am still playing for this year. Further you are asking me to trade away the one guy involved [from both sides] who I know I would prolly keep. Even if I wouldn't call this offer unfair it isn't turning me on.
 
40Tree
ID: 3533298
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 11:23 		i made one offer through the site, and then sent an email that was a different offer.
 
41Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 11:40 		I'll be brief since this is public. I'm high on Antonelli because the position is so thin. I feel they are just shopping Crede. I am not going to give up on my struggling 3B keeper. I value guys who break into the league extra early on the theory that they will have longer carreers and higher peaks. Sophmore slumps and lingering injuries are ignored when it comes to these guys. Didn't work so well with Furcal but I still believe in this type of player.
 
42Tree
ID: 3533298
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 11:52 		well, you do have other prospects i am interested in.

will you be on email at all, or not really?
 
43Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Wed, Apr 23, 2008, 12:14 		I check e-mail about every other day.
 
44Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 13:59 		Where's the "rest of the story" on the Joe Crede/Eric Brynes trade? How many draft picks? Surely it isn't straight up. Perm isn't THAT stupid, right?
 
45Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:09 		ummm......Mayb it includes some work for the Obama campaign
 
46Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:25 		Nah, Tree clings to his guns and religion.
 
47Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:43 		Where's the "rest of the story" on the Joe Crede/Eric Brynes trade? How many draft picks? Surely it isn't straight up. Perm isn't THAT stupid, right?

i just traded some guns for some religion, since i worship speed.

so, what do you see wrong with the trade?

a. PD has a serious dearth of quality at second base. Iwamura and Polanco are pretty darn not good at all.

b. now he plugs Crede into 3B, and moves Figgins over to 2B.

c. Byrnes is 32, Crede doesn't even turn 30 until later this week.

d. compare their numbers. with the exception of SB, they are similar in just about every category in this game.

i needed speed. he need a quality infielder.
 
48biliruben
ID: 33258140
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:47 		That's a pretty big exception.

The dude stole 50 bases last year. That's huge in fantasy, especially when coupled with 20+ dingers and a decent average.

 
49Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 14:49 		he need a quality infielder.

Then he should have traded for one.

Why does someone trade away one of his keepers for a bum you picked up off the waiver wire who has happened to have a hot start? Hey, PD, you think the reason why Tree has peppered everyone with trade offers for Crede might have to do with a "sell high" notion? You'll see why Tree so desperately wanted to dump him soon enough.

I've never been in a league were one team has fleeced so many teams so many times. I cannot fathom why PD continues to trade with you, you'ld think he remember every time he sat down.
 
50Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 15:15 		The dude stole 50 bases last year. That's huge in fantasy

no question. but it was also DOUBLE what he had ever stolen previously, and only the second time he had more than 20 in his whole career. i think his number this season will be more in the 25 to 30 range.

Then he should have traded for one.

Why does someone trade away one of his keepers for a bum you picked up off the waiver wire who has happened to have a hot start?

that picked him up on waivers isn't relevant. at the point in a draft, things like that just don't matter anymore. $hit, Andruw Jones was someone's keeper and i snagged him off waivers.

Crede's off to hot start. that's a very good sign, since traditionally, he's a slow starter and a much stronger second half player.

his average is 30 points higher post-ASB. his SLG is more than 60 points higher post-ASB.

he finally put it all together in 2006, hitting .280 with 30 HRs and 90-something ribbies.

and then he got hurt last season, and people soured on him.

is he A-Rod? no, he's not. but compared to Iwamura, he might as well be.

you're acting as if i just traded Mario Mendoza for Eric Byrnes.
 
51Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 15:19 		You might as well start looking now for a replacement for me in 2009.
 
52Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 15:33 		this is absurd.

prior to Byrnes stealing 50 stolen bases last season - and there is nothing to indicate it isn't any more of an aberration than Brady Anderson's 50 home runs were - would anyone have even been remotely questioning this deal?!?!?!

you're talking about a guy who doubled his career SB total in one season, and he's been in the majors since 2000. he had a career high for ribbies and runs last season, and for only the third time, surpassed 20 home runs. he's a career .268 hitter who who strikes out nearly 100 times every season.

he played for four teams in two years, and has ONCE had an OBP above .350.

now, tell me why this is a bad trade. it gives PD a solid player in a slot he desperately needs it, and it gives me some speed, because i am clearly hurting in that category right now.

again, you guys are acting like i just traded Mario Mendoza for Babe Ruth, when i traded a younger position player for an older outfielder, and they both have similar numbers.
 
53Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 15:55 		you'ld think he remember every time he sat down. - SZ

I concur.

Hope this trade wasn't what precipitated MITH's decision to leave. It wasn't THAT bad.

I think PD loses slightly as usual with any trade Tree proposes, even tho I don't like one dimensional SB players and Crede has been outplayed by Fields and is only getting ab's to be shopped. That said Crede has the power potential to still have a better than average power career for his position.
 
54Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 16:02 		Hope this trade wasn't what precipitated MITH's decision to leave.

It was the fatal straw. There's a long history of the rich mugging the poor here that makes it not all that much fun to participate if you have a modicrum of shame. It was why I left in the first place.

I confided as much to a few leaguemates in preseason that my leash would be short.
 
55Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 16:04 		If Crede hits thirty will you reconsider?
 
56Tree
ID: 3533298
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 16:06 		It was the fatal straw. There's a long history of the rich mugging the poor here that makes it not all that much fun to participate if you have a modicrum of shame. It was why I left in the first place.

so, you tell me. why is this trade so lopsided? i traded a younger player at a position needed by the other team, for an older player at a position where guys like him aren't exactly uncommon.
 
57Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 16:15 		Tree

If you were PD would you pull that trigger? Honestly?
 
58Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 16:25 		Boldwin
If this winds up being a particularly enjoyable season I might reconsider - in the event that you don't line up someone to replace me by then, which would probably be a good idea frankly so that you aren't under the gun next February. Whatever Crede and Byrnes do will not make a difference.

Tree
You and I have had enough of these discussions in the past. I know from numerous experiences that if you don't think this is a lopsided trade, I won't be able to convince you otherwise. I'm happy to offer reaons for my opinions to any of my other leaguemates but I don't owe you anything and I'm pretty sure the rest of the knows its a bad deal for PD and why.

By the way, it might be moot now but I hereby formally reject your offer of Joe Crede for Corey Hart.
 
59Perm Dude
ID: 4637249
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 17:01 		Byrnes, being 2 years older, is being overvalued I think--I'm giving up some SBs, but we're probably looking at 20-25 this year. And he seems likely (to me) to start going to his career hitting average as well--.263.

Better power numbers (which, of course, if where I'm weakest) at 3rd base (which I'm also weak at) makes more sense to me. You can't look at this in a vaccuum and say Byrnes is better that Crede so this is a bad move. The question is: Is having Crede on my roster a better thing than having Byrnes on the roster?

I expect to have more dingers, a higher average, slightly more runs, and far fewer sb's as a result of this trade. I'd consider any trade which gives me a net increase in 3 categories at the expense of one.

Baldwin: Crede has been outplayed by Fields

Per Rotowire: Fields has struck out 26 times in 68 at-bats at Triple-A this season.

So long as Crede remains healthy (the real question mark here) he will continue to get the ABs.

MITH: I realize that you were considering this a one-shot season, which is fine. But I think, given our Shelton for Papelbon trade, you'd want to give this a little bit of time before considering whether this is a good trade or not. This no knock on you or that trade (really). I'm just saying that trades will often look different (sometimes way different) a few weeks later.
 
60Tree
ID: 73302415
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 17:43 		MITH - i welcome your input as to why it's a bad trade. i welcome any member of this league's input as to why it's a bad trade, but i have yet to see anyone actually give a reason - instead, just saying it's a bad deal.

and MITH - i'm pretty sure i didn't offer you Crede for Hart straight up. now THAT's a dumb trade. if i did, it was in error. i do think there was more to the deal, but since PD took my Crede offer almost instantly, i canceled the offer i made to you.
 
61Perm Dude
ID: 4637249
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 18:04 		I'm going to be offline, essentially, for a couple of days. Tonight is the viewing for my mother-in-law (or whatever it is called at the funeral home for someone who was cremated). Tomorrow AM is her funeral mass.

Anyone who really doesn't like the trade can certainly vote against it--I have no problem at all if the league votes it down. I just won't be around to offer any additional reasoning on it.
 
62Tree
ID: 73302415
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 18:06 		it's interesting to see who Crede has been traded for in 1-for-1 deals in Yahoo.

JJ Putz (twice)
Corey Hart (interestingly enough)
Shaun Marcum
Randy Wolf
Shane Victorino
Robinson Cano
Aramis Ramirez (whoa)
Derek Lowe
and
Brad Hawpe
 
63Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 18:07 		PD
I'm not concerned with the way this trade will look in 5 weeks or 5 months. Every player transaction is a gamble to some extent or another and while you can get very lucky or very unlucky, we consider trades based on the info at hand.

Based on the info at hand, Byrnes has a much higher ceiling than Crede's and a floor that isn't any lower than Crede's.

Look if this were the worst trade I'd seen in this league it wouldn't be an issue. But everyone here knows the history. My patience was severely pressed almost a month before the season started when I learned that I had no 4th round pick, courtesy of Soxzeitgeist, who downgraded it by almost 30 picks in a trade it to Tree in which he also handed over Jon Papelbon and Eric Byrnes for JJ Hardy, Mark Reynolds, Kenny Rogers.

Also frustrating is how managers in this league are so eager to fork over their 1st round draft picks (often for their trading partner's last rounder!) for players that will be almost certainly be available with that round 1 pick and will probably be available in the 2nd round, too. I sure hope everyone took notice when I landed San Diego's Chris Young for my 7th rounder for Pete's sake.

Tree
i'm pretty sure i didn't offer you Crede for Hart straight up. now THAT's a dumb trade

That was the proposal, straight up. You did include in the notes section, "if the age difference is an issue, i could possible work in Hermida to the deal, if you're interested." How generous of you.

As dumb as that offer was, I don't think it was quite as dumb as the "feeler" you sent me, asking if I'd be inerested in moving Billy Butler for Jarrod Saltalamacchia - 10 days after TX announced that Laird had won the starting job.
 
64biliruben
ID: 33258140
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 18:34 		That's just Tree's MO. He scatters a 10 low-balls around the league, and you pretty much have to treat him like a car salesmen. You assume the first offer is bad, and counter. You probably aren't going to get a great deal, but if you have the patience you can get a fair trade, or close.

I don't want to discourage him, because trading's a important part of a fun league, but he definitely spends more time at it, and therefore makes some good trades for himself.
 
65Tree
ID: 73302415
Thu, Apr 24, 2008, 19:01 		i definitely toss a lot of offers out there. no doubt. and in doing so, i'm sure i've made some (crede for hart) that aren't exactly even.

still, i'm not seeing an unevenness in byrnes for crede. i'm just not.
 
66Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 03:51 		Uhm, once a player displays a skill he owns it. Which means Byrnes owns 26HR/38SB which blows Crede out of the water even if PD is right and Fields isn't the real WS 3rd.

I will prolly file a vote against. Not that we've ever actually disallowed one as a group.
 
67nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 05:47

I had Crede for a few days during his "hot streak" and dropped him because I don't buy it. Tree picked him shortly after and low and behold I got a trade offer from him that included Crede who I had just dropped .

Obviously Tree doesn't think highly of Crede since he's tried to trade him to half the league.

The lopsided trades are a frustrating part of the league at times but what can you do?

PD sorry about your MIL. Pause...

While you were looking a Rotowire did you notice they value Crede at $1 in mixed leagues and Byrnes at $15?



 
68nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 05:51
so, you tell me. why is this trade so lopsided? i traded a younger player at a position needed by the other team, for an older player at a position where guys like him aren't exactly uncommon.

Could you do us one favor Tree. When you land a deal like this don't make all these impassioned posts like you actually are shocked we don't all agree it was a fair trade.

 
69Tree
ID: 57332254
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 06:43 		NC - i'm not shocked people disagree with it.

but other than MITH's ceiling/basement assessment, which is a fair enough argument although i think the age difference counters it, i have yet to see anyone else explain *why* they think it's an unfair deal, that's all.

both PD and I have explained reasons why we think its balanced, but those opposed haven't said much.

and, remember, we did see Chris Shelton for Jon Papelbon in this league too.
 
70Tree
ID: 57332254
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 07:19 		as a follow up, i really think those who are so aghast at this deal are doing so only because Crede was picked up off the waiver wire. (NC - i really don't pay attention to who drops someone, just that they were dropped, so offering him back to you isn't unusual for me)

i mean, look at the drafting of these two players from just one year ago. in our league, Byrnes went in the third round, Crede in the sixth.

In kafenatid's ADP from 2007, Crede's ADP was 147.85 over 13 drafts, going as high as 55 and as low as 265. Byrne's ADP was 208.77 over 13 drafts, going as high as 155 and as low as 256.

i think a LOT is being made of Crede's injury last year. i also think because of that people think he's older than he really is, and because Byrnes is just now starting to break out, people think he's younger than he really is.

yes, there is risk in Crede. but there is also an obvious upside, and those are some nice power numbers, especially if he goes to a fantasy team that doesn't have any power.
 
71biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 09:36 		I didn't even know you'd picked him up off the WW.

I just knew Crede wasn't particularly good. At best he's like the 15th best 3B-men at a deep position with job competition issues. It is extremely rare for players to finally put it all together at 30, so I think of his upside as something close to nil.

Byrnes is about his equal without the SBs. The 50 SBs make Byrnes a borderline fantasy stud, though his value in real life is debatable. He has a good chance, given Crede's job issues, to hit more HRs than Crede this year to boot and he'll almost certainly have a better average.

But I don't vote against these trades. I don't vote against bad trades, only collusive ones.
 
72nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 11:06

But I don't vote against these trades. I don't vote against bad trades, only collusive ones.

I agree with this statement.

 
73biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:19 		LOL - Maybe PD got the best of this trade after all:

"Byrnes acknowledged not being able to move as well this season as he did in 2007, when he went on to steal 50 bases. We expect Byrnes to play through this ailment as frequently as Melvin will allow him to, but the green light on the basepaths won't be there nearly as frequently if he's playing hurt."
 
74Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:35 		If he still hits .275+, 25 HR, 25 SB you think he won't outscore Crede fantasy-wise? At best Crede hits 5 more HR and 20 less SB.
 
75Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:46 		baldwin - i also think it's important to look at rosters - how does Crede compare to Iwamura, who's position he's taking on PD's roster.
 
76Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:48 		162 game averages:
Crede:
26hr 87rbi 72r 1sb .260ba
Byrnes:
19hr 69rbi 86r 23sb .267ba

Each has 3 seasons with 490+ ab. Average stats from those seasons:
Crede:
23hr 79rbi 70r 1sb .261ba
Byrnes:
22hr 78rbi 92r 31sb .278ba
 
77Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:54 		Anyway you cut it, this trade is grossly uneven. Wasn't PD's waiver wire spot ahead of tree's. If he needed to upgrade that badly, he should have used it - not given up one of the very few valuable players he owns for Joe frekin' Crede.

And this talk of Crede being a couple of years younger than Byrnes means what, exactly? Surely, no one considers Crede to be keeper material.
 
78Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 12:56 		Age difference: 2 years, 2 months.
 
79PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 13:01 		Each year there are trades that happen, they look good right now, end up being crap. Or they look bad right now, and end up looking good.
 
80Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 13:50 		Someone refresh my memory - how did tree get Jose Reyes?
 
81biliruben
ID: 33258140
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 14:09 		I don't know. I recall snappy leaving him unprotected 2 years ago, and PD drafting him with the first pick. I seem to have suppressed the trade that got him to Tree.
 
82Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 14:26 		So has the "Baseball Transactions 2006 and beyond" thread. He was drafted 1st overall by PD in 2006 and listed on Tree's final roster at the end of the 2006 season.

It seems that the transactions thread was originally intended specifically for trades that include draft picks.
 
83Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 14:36 		162 game averages:
Crede:
26hr 87rbi 72r 1sb .260ba
Byrnes:
19hr 69rbi 86r 23sb .267ba

again - i traded power for speed, and this pretty much shows that.

Age difference: 2 years, 2 months.

you really want to go down the list of players where 2 years made a huge difference?

Each year there are trades that happen, they look good right now, end up being crap. Or they look bad right now, and end up looking good.

like papelbon for shelton? or Chris Carpenter for a first rounder? Paul Konerko for a first rounder? Nomar for Clemens?

Morgan Ensberg for a fourth round pick? Renteria for Freel? Lofton and a second rounder for Wickman?

Gonzalez, Magglio Ordonez, Edwin Encarnacion, and a second round pick for Clemens, Wickman, and a last round pick? (what idiot traded away Magglio and a second rounder for two aging pitchers?!?!)

and i don't remember how i acquired Reyes, but i do know plenty of other people were pursuing him when PD drafted him, and MITH was offering one of his second basemen - Ryan Freel or Adam Kennedy.

we've had a mess of trades that look weird, either at first glance, or at a later glance. that's the nature of trading.

 
84Boldwin
ID: 573452112
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 14:44 		I think that we need to be a bit less polite and a bit more diligent using the 'vote this trade down' function or risk losing more than just MITH.

That Reyes trade had me scratching my head I remember.
 
85Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 14:51 		again - i traded power for speed, and this pretty much shows that.

What it shows is trading power for power+speed.

we've had a mess of trades that look weird, either at first glance, or at a later glance. that's the nature of trading.

You judge a trade by the information at hand at the time of the trade. I'll back out of this discussion now as I've had enough of Tree's bald-faced denials of his history of incessent predatory trading behavior.

Doubtful I'll be checking back anytime soon. If any issues come up that require my attention please email me.
 
86Tree
ID: 3533298
Fri, Apr 25, 2008, 15:24 		over 162 games, it comes off as homers and ribbies for SB and runs, with avg being pretty negligible.

You judge a trade by the information at hand at the time of the trade.

exactly. part of this information at hand is that PD was starting a guy in his infield who is currently hitting .209 with zero homers, 3 ribbies, 10 runs, and 1 SB.

he now has a guy in Crede who is hitting .293 with 6 homers, 21 ribbies, 11 runs, and 0 SB.

Byrnes, the guy he traded for Crede is hitting .287 with 3 homers, 14 ribbies, 16 runs, 3 SB, and a pair of bad hamstrings.

the numbers are VERY similar right now, and PD filled a hole he had.

we can all sit here and recite stats all day, but it's easy to pick and choose which ones we want to use to "prove" our case.

regarding my "incessent predatory trading behavior" - in every league i am in for baseball, i send out a ton of offers. i like trading in baseball. i like tinkering with my team, and doing what i can to make it better and better, even by a little bit. it's like fishing - sooner or later, you will get a bite.
 
87Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 00:55 		Why, I think those three handsome gentlemen sitting atop this league were also seen in a row at a certain Seahawks V. Bengals game just a few short months ago.
 
88nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 03:30
I've offered several teams in the league Bobby Abreu for a closer. First team to pull the trigger obviously gets him.

 
89biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 10:23 		Obvious collusion, Zen.

 
90Myboyjackk
ID: 8216923
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 11:40 		shhh...we'll have nerve and Baldwin spinning a conspiracy theory: "The Group of Three met in highly clandestine fashion amidst 60,000 drunk Pacific Nortwesterners and a frightened little boy from Central Kentucky in September, 2007 to make their plans for domination of the 2008 PoliGuru baseball league......"
 
91nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 11:52

to make their plans for domination of the 2008 PoliGuru baseball league

It's only May

 
92Myboyjackk
ID: 8216923
Mon, Apr 28, 2008, 12:22 		I'm well aware that I'm a pretender this year.
 
94Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Fri, May 02, 2008, 13:16 		Biliruben has to rub in yet another mistake of mine.

List of mistakes:

Not calling up Justin Upton during the draft:

He jacks four homers before I could sneeze. I had one player in mind to make my fourth Prospect pick this year - some guy named Max Scherzer!

Thinking that Phil Hughes would make a contribution this year:

Well, he's made a contribution, alright. He's dragged my ERA and WHIP down, so his contribution is to the rest of the league.

Drafting Aaron Heilman when CJ Wilson was still on the board:

Man, that was a huge blunder. I couldn't believe my eyes when CC took him, how did I make that mistake? And of all the teams, damn, he's making a juggernaut.

Shuffling in my bench when they suck and taking out players just as they go 3-4 with a HR and 4 RBI's:

Looking at my players' season stat line in the Gametracker versus what they have done for the season as a whole is very depressing.
 
95nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Sat, May 03, 2008, 08:17
Is anyone besides me having a hard time getting into yahoo baseball? It loads slowly and I am not getting all the way in. I've tried other web pages and it's only yahoo bb doing it.

 
96Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Sat, May 03, 2008, 09:06 		I'm not having a problem.
 
97nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Sat, May 03, 2008, 10:08

It's working again. I couldn't get in for an hour.

 
98biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, May 05, 2008, 14:55 		What mistake? How did I rub it in?

I'm always happy when I can do these things, but I'm happier still when I understand how I have.
 
99Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Mon, May 05, 2008, 15:51 		Picking up Max Scherzer. Had I called Upton up during the draft, I would have had a fourth prospect draft pick and I was going to take Max.
 
100biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, May 05, 2008, 17:08 		Well, we'll see tonight if he's ready for prime-time. Hope so. Did you have a WW claim on him? I assumed someone would.

I'm starting him against Philly. Hopefully by ratios can hack it.
 
101nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, May 05, 2008, 17:23
I had a ww claim in on Scherzer, didn't most of the league?

 
102biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, May 05, 2008, 17:29 		Glad to hear I didn't waste the #1.

I hate having #1 anyway. It often means I don't use my claims all year. Good to get it out of the way on a player who, at least for now, there's a consensus he's worth a claim.
 
103Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, May 05, 2008, 17:42 		I had you pegged as the type of guy, Bili, who cherished the #1 pick like Golum and his Precious. Yes, I definitely had a WW claim and was disappointed I came up empty.
 
104nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, May 06, 2008, 00:21
Golum and his Precious?

I'm gonna have to Wikpedia that one.


 
105nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, May 06, 2008, 06:53

I'm willing to trade one of my top young outfielders for top young pitching. Starter or closer. Even offer.

Melky Cabrera
McClouth
Quentin

Or even

Abreu or
Hawpe

Just looking for equal value in pitching in return.

Infielders not currently on the table.

 
106Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:10 		Rafael Furcal is on the trading block, if anyone cares to buy high.
 
107biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:14 		Since this is the year of the Dodger for me, I may have to make some sort of offer. Are you looking into the distance, or trying to work your way into contention?
 
108Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:24 		Offer me the best keeper you're willing to part with. I figure I should be able to land one with a better O-Rank than the #68 Furcal started out the year with.
 
109biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:26 		Let me think about whether I can do that and not too badly jeopardize my chance at a repeat.

Preferably I'd like to trade future-stars and draft picks.
 
110Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:31 		I'm rather flush with future potential stars.
 
111biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:34 		Yeah, all my keepers are top-25 types, unfortunately.

 
112Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:39 		Well I'd be willing to package him with one of my stars-in-waiting if you can find a fair deal that works for you.
 
113biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Wed, May 07, 2008, 21:56 		Yeah. Staring at them, they are all just too integral to me team. Maybe me you and nerve can work a 3 way deal.
 
114Perm Dude
ID: 1141879
Wed, May 07, 2008, 22:22 		Worth a shot anyway, MITH. My pitching is obviously overproducing, and so it Furcal!
 
115Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, May 07, 2008, 22:32 		All offers are welcome. There are several contending and rather loaded teams that could benefit well from a quick infusion of R, SB and AVG from a surging Rafael Furcal. And more than one of them without a strong SS in their lineup.
 
116nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, May 11, 2008, 09:54
First Izzy the Gagne both beging to be taking from the closer role just daze apart...
 
117biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Sun, May 11, 2008, 10:26 		Crazy.
 
118Taxman
ID: 22192520
Sun, May 11, 2008, 23:00 		Ohhhh...if the season had just ended yesterday.
 
119biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Sun, May 11, 2008, 23:02 		Yeah, huge swing today. Braun and crawford finally got off their asses. Now something's gotta jumpstart Prince.
 
120Tree
ID: 44101115
Sun, May 11, 2008, 23:19 		and with the injury to Vernon Wells, Carlos Gomez gets called up to the bigs, and will make his much anticipated Poli-Baseball debut tomorrow.
 
121biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Mon, May 12, 2008, 09:43 		You should rename your team the Adam Dunn Allstars, MBJ.
 
122Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, May 12, 2008, 09:56 		If this league was sensible and used OBP and discarded silly stats like SB, this thing'd be sewed up.
 
123biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, May 12, 2008, 13:22 		Tut tut. Sounds like a proposal!
 
124Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, May 12, 2008, 13:43 		if owners were savvy enough to realize that SBs were actually a category, then they probably wouldn't be complaining...but hey, you go ahead and keep guys who couldn't eat a line drive single to save their life.
 
125Perm Dude
ID: 394501120
Mon, May 12, 2008, 13:49 		I'd be for a proposal to change AVG to OBP. As it is, a guy gets no respect for taking a walk.
 
126Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, May 12, 2008, 13:57 		uh..yeah tree, someday I'll get savy enough to win this league; untill then I'll try to follow your lead of consistent bridemaidery...:)

I gave up a few years ago proposing the OBP thing; everyone was always too interested in how the change would immediately affect them to consider the overall improvement to the league of using OBP.
 
127Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, May 12, 2008, 15:20 		I'd be for a proposal to change AVG to OBP. As it is, a guy gets no respect for taking a walk.

i couldn't be more completely against this in a keeper league.

if you want to make the proposal now for the change to go into effect in like 2013 or something, i'd be more apt to do that, but in a league like this, you're likely not just planning for the following year, but for years beyond that as well.
 
128Perm Dude
ID: 394501120
Mon, May 12, 2008, 15:24 		Which is how we get stuck with an obsolete stat and a refusal to change it. In theory you might be right, and in this league theory ways far more heavily than actual use. Is there really anyone in the league who is drafting for average rather than OBP and that the difference matters to the degree that they can't switch for years?
 
129Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, May 12, 2008, 15:28 		You know, I actually sense a change in the air. We haven't polled this question in a few years and there has been a large turnover in ownership. The OBP question may have traction, now.
 
130Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Mon, May 12, 2008, 15:52 		I'm all for OBP, but I don't think SB is a silly category, it's just a stategically tricky one.
 
131biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, May 12, 2008, 16:27 		The perfect solution is keeping AVE and substituting SB with OBP....

... now that I've traded Carlos Gomez away. ;)
 
132Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, May 12, 2008, 16:36 		Is there really anyone in the league who is drafting for average rather than OBP and that the difference matters to the degree that they can't switch for years?

yea, i am. why would i look at a stat that we don't count? who would draft based on a category that doesn't matter? i don't even give a second glance to OBP.

and of course it matters. to an astonishing degree. look at some of the guys on my team - Reyes, Gomez, Napoli, Cano - respectable batting averages, not so great on the OBP.

i don't try and and acquire Cano in an OBP league, as his lifetime OBP is barely higher than his average. Reyes, Napoli, and Gomez have some pretty meager OBPs.

i've got no problem with change, but something as muscular as changing a full 20 percent of offensive categories needs to happen gradually, over a few years, and not suddenly.
 
133Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, May 12, 2008, 18:31 		BTW - my comment about SB being silly was facetious and fueled only because I'm sucking at it so far this year. SB is always a category, obviously.

I've said since Year 2 tha OBP was a better category; it's just more fun to keep up with and is obviously a better measure of quality.

I'd be intersted if someone with more energy than me would keep up with it and see how big a difference it would make. My guess is not huge.

I can't imagine anyone 7 Keepers (only 4 or 5 of which are hitters) are so slanted to BA over OBP that it would make that big of a differnce.
 
134nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, May 18, 2008, 09:24
I'll try again

Young hitting talent for pitching talent, starter or closer.

I have

Jason Werth 9 HR's 7 SB 2.83 BA (Ranked 31 overall in Yahoo game)

Melky Cabrera 6 HR 3 SB

Brad Hawpe (He's got to hit better right?)

Bobby Abreu 5 HR 2 SB .287 BA

Unless it's an absolute pitching STUD I probably won't trade:

Jacoby Ellsbury (16 SB)(Ranked 23 overall in Yahoo game)

Carlos Quentin 10 HR 4 SB .298 BA (Ranked 11 overall in Yahoo game) (Ranked 48 0n Big Board baseball) On Bubble on Big Board baseball

Two weeks ago I would have taken a lot less for Quentin but in a keeper league I am actually shocked no one is making offers for him when I am begging for pitching and offered him. 2 more weeks and he might be off the table. It would take a lot to get him now.




 
135Tree
ID: 5425189
Sun, May 18, 2008, 10:47 		NC - i think part of what is happening here is that we have pretty short benches in this league. it makes people less likely to trade for a player that doesn't stand out, or isn't a "sure thing".

to me - and please, take no offense, i'm just offering analysis - all of the players you mentioned, save possibly for Werth, are interchangable. nothing makes them stand out, none of them are sure things anymore, and even Werth needs to do more than just have one studly game every now and then.

Ellsbury and Quentin are certainly more enticing, but i think you're hurt by the abudance of OFs and 1Bs in this game, and the short bench.

of everyone you listed, i think Ellsbury is the only one i would put into my starting line up, and even that is debatable.

i know when Billy and i worked out our deal in the offseason with some top players, we went back and forth a few times, and i think good, solid, 1-for-1 deals in this league can be pretty hard to come by, unless it's superstar for superstar.
 
136nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, May 18, 2008, 11:49

Tree I don't really understand why you say Ellsbury is the only one you would put in your line up.

Using Yahoo game rankings for instance, Quentin is rated higher then everyone on your team except for Puljos.

Ellsbury is ranked higher then everyone on your team except Puljos and Wright.

For Weryth just add Nady to that list.

Isn't the goal to use players getting the most Yahoo points?

As far as Hawpe and Abreu goes, I was thinking they would get points for past performance.

Hawpe hit 30 HR's last year. Abreu came into the season on everyones top 50 list.

Yes I am offering outfielders but if you go to the Yahoo league and click "players"/taken/outfielders/2008/rank you'll see I have 5 of the top 13 outfielders in a 14 team league. (Doesn't even include Markakis or Abreu)

It would seem some team might need more talent there.

I appreciate your analysis but perhaps someone with extremely low batting categories might be interested in one of these players.

Perhaps not.

I'm actually glad Quentin didn't go two weeks ago, I would expect more in return today for the number 11 ranked player in Yahoo.


 
137Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Sun, May 18, 2008, 12:02 		You won't get what you evidently think those guys are worth, because you way overvalue them. I mean, do you honestly think Ellsbry or Quentin are more valuable than David Wright. Basing trade value on the "Yahoo!" rankings is silly.
 
138Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Sun, May 18, 2008, 12:10 		Your pitcher, Hidekie Okajima is 'ranked" higher than my guy, Matt Capps. You think Okajima has "scored more Yahoo! points" than Capps this year?
 
139nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, May 18, 2008, 14:14

I mean, do you honestly think Ellsbry or Quentin are more valuable than David Wright.

No, based on past performance he will beat them by the end of the year.

At this moment in time, Carlos is beating Wright in 4 out of 5 categories...didn't you notice that? so yes up to this point he has been more valuable then Wright but I don't think it will last.

Your pitcher, Hidekie Okajima is 'ranked" higher than my guy, Matt Capps. You think Okajima has "scored more Yahoo! points" than Capps this year?

Of course he has that's how the rankings are calculated. The problem is in a 14 team league Saves are more valuable to a team then any of the 4 other categories.

Also MBJ they are ranked very close.

Now lets look at the categories, Both pitchers have almost exaclty 19 innings

Capps 0 W Oka 1 W Basically a tie

Capps 12 SO Oka 16 SO Oka has 25% more K's

Capps 10 saves Oka 1 no contest

Capps 2.75 ERA Oka .093 ERA Capps ERA is almost triple Oka wins this category easily.

Capps 1.07 Oka .088 Again Oka wins but statistically pretty close.

So the only category Capps wins is Saves with 2 ties and Oka winning two categories. Why do you not see that in the 5 categories Oka is scoring better?

I do think saves are heavily weighted in a 14 man league though and yahoo bases it on a 12 league team.

Yes, that's how the rankings are calculated, strictly on points. That's my understanding, someone correct me if I am wrong.

If you offered me Capps for Oka of course I would take the trade...I need saves. 8-}

 
140Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Sun, May 18, 2008, 15:29 		No, based on past performance he will beat them by the end of the year.
Nerve, we're 6 weeks into a 6 month long season. Are you really oblivious to the concept of sample size?

Regarding Okijima vs Capps, your argument ignores the rarity of saves and the limited benefit of relief pitchers who don't earn saves. There is a very limited number of pitchers who get the opportunity to earn saves. If given a choice between 3 Capps or 3 Okijimas to make up your fantasy bulpen, you'd take 3 Okijimas? Of course not. you'd gladly take strong rather than exceptional avg stats (WHIP and ERA) and remain competetive in SV, since the other option might give you a couple of extra points in each category but leave you last in SV.
 
141nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, May 18, 2008, 15:51
Come on MITH at least read my post before you misquote me...

MITH No, based on past performance he will beat them by the end of the year.
Nerve, we're 6 weeks into a 6 month long season. Are you really oblivious to the concept of sample size?

MITH slow down, read carefully one more time...

MBJ...I mean, do you honestly think Ellsbury or Quentin are more valuable than David Wright.

Nerve...No, based on past performance he (Wright) will beat them by the end of the year.

OK make sense now?

Yes I am aware it's too small a sample size, that's why I am saying Wright will be better then both Ellsbury and Quentin. Maybe you didn't read it carefully enough.

Regarding Okijima vs Capps, your argument ignores the rarity of saves and the limited benefit of relief pitchers who don't earn saves.

Huh. Again MITH can you read?

From my post.

I do think saves are heavily weighted in a 14 man league though and yahoo bases it on a 12 league team.

Meaning in our league Capps would be even more valuable.

Before you jump all over me can you read a little more carefully?

I stand by the post.

At this moment in time Oka is about the best non closer relief pitcher in BB and there fore at this moment in time he is slightly beating Capps in the yahoo game. (That's what Yahoo rankings are based on points in 12 man league)

Would I trade Oka for Capps...any day of the week.

The very fact that OKA is so much better then Capps and yet Capps is right there with him in the rankings shows your point exactly...saves are very valuable.

I think Capps is far more valuable then Oka but at this moment, Oka in a 12 team league is beating Capps in yahoo points.

That's what the rankings are based on.

I would guess in our league Capps has more points based on 14 man league and scarcity of saves.

I may have to drop Oka anway...hurt wrist.
 
142Tree
ID: 5425189
Sun, May 18, 2008, 17:12 		Tree I don't really understand why you say Ellsbury is the only one you would put in your line up.

Using Yahoo game rankings for instance, Quentin is rated higher then everyone on your team except for Puljos.

Quentin is a good young player who has been a prospect for quite some time. prior to this season, he had 14 homers in 400 career ABs, while hitting .230. he's had a great first quarter of this season, but that's not enough to make me want to sacrifice an absolute pitching STUD.

Ellsbury is ranked higher then everyone on your team except Puljos and Wright.

same thing with Ellsbury. he's a good young player, and i think he is going to be one for a long time, and he's quite an asset to have around.

but i also believe there is a surplus of OFs in fantasy baseball, so giving up what you're asking is too rich for my blood.

For Weryth just add Nady to that list.

i don't know what you're getting at here. Nady has more runs, more ribbies, and is hitting for a higher average.

Nady also has fairly consistent numbers over the years. he gets injured a lot, but you know what you're getting. Werth has more than 300 ABs in a season once in his career, and he was pretty awful that year. additionally, i was surprised to see that Werth is only like 6 months younger than Nady. it's not like he's some 23 year old kid.

Isn't the goal to use players getting the most Yahoo points?

no. and if you play that way, you'll likely not do well. the goal is get players who can help you finish high in each category. if i've got a ton of base stealers scoring massive points, but not too many sluggers, it might be a smart move for me to trade a couple of basestealers for some power hitters, even if the base stealers are better.

as SZ pointed out (probably correctly), if i had traded Carl Crawford last season for some power numbers, i might have won the damned thing.

As far as Hawpe and Abreu goes, I was thinking they would get points for past performance.

what past performance for Hawpe? he's never scored more than 80 runs in a season, has never hit 30 homers, has never hit .300, hasn't stolen a base in two years, and has just one season of over 100 RBIs. he had a couple of good years, but nothing spectacular.

Abreu, has put up solid numbers. but he's also one the downside of his career, and his power numbers have been steadily declining.

that being said, i think he would be an asset to nearly any team. but you're not asking for an OF in return, you're asking for a quality SP or RP, and there is a world of difference.

in another league i'm in, i simply couldn't trade Carlos Lee. no matter what. he's a helluva player, and would help nearly any team he's on, but most strong OFs have a value that exceeds their worth, if that makes sense.

in other words, they are very valuable to the team they're on, but you're not going to get anything close to that value if you try to trade them, due to over saturation.

again, i wasn't trying to be critical. i was just trying to offer explanations as to why you're having a tough time moving some players.
 
143biliruben
ID: 374321820
Sun, May 18, 2008, 21:46 		I think the key here is value over replacement level.

All the players you're hawking have some value over the worst OF
on someone's squad, or the Vottos or Cuddyers off the FA list. But
not THAT MUCH value.

They replacement level pitcher is a much lower level, so people
value their reliable pitchers more highly than an OF.

Or something like that.
 
144nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Mon, May 19, 2008, 00:55
Tree For Weryth just add Nady to that list.

i don't know what you're getting at here. Nady has more runs, more ribbies, and is hitting for a higher average.

Uhhh what I am getting at is Nady is ranked higher then Weryth, that's why I said "add him to the list of players ranked higher then Weryth, so now you, like MITH are arguing with me about something I didn't say.

Slow down, take a deep breath and read.

I love it when people explain to me something I already said.

Tree Isn't the goal to use players getting the most Yahoo points?

no. and if you play that way, you'll likely not do well. the goal is get players who can help you finish high in each category.

OMG you are so blond. You get Yahoo points by finishing high in each category...sheez. What's with you guys today, just looking for an argument?

what past performance for Hawpe? he's never scored more than 80 runs in a season, has never hit 30 homers, has never hit .300,

Give me a break Tree...he hit 29 HR's 116 RBI's and hit .291. Your point is he hit 29 HR's but not 30??? What a joke. He was a top 80 or better pick on most experts cheat sheets this year. Are you just in one of your "I think I'll argue about anything" moods?

Tree concerning Abreu... that being said, i think he would be an asset to nearly any team. but you're not asking for an OF in return, you're asking for a quality SP or RP, and there is a world of difference.

Yeah your right there is, most experts say always take the better hitting over pitching, more consistent and less prone to injury.

Really what it comes down to is whether or not there is a team that needs help at offense and has an abundance of pitching.

Let's lay all the cards on the table here Tree.

It's in your best interest to talk down this trade.

Your really just lobbying here hoping teams that need help in the hitting categories buy your argument and move on.

It's not in your team interest to have this trade go through. IMHO.

I understand that, but I'm calling a spade a spade.






 
145Tree
ID: 21438195
Mon, May 19, 2008, 06:54
Uhhh what I am getting at is Nady is ranked higher then Weryth, that's why I said "add him to the list of players ranked higher then Weryth, so now you, like MITH are arguing with me about something I didn't say.

yea, but that's NOT what you said. you said For Weryth just add Nady to that list, which i know i interpreted as Nady is equal to Weyrth.

OMG you are so blond. You get Yahoo points by finishing high in each category...sheez. What's with you guys today, just looking for an argument?

no, i think it's you not typing what you mean. that's twice now. you're meaning one thing, but saying something different. maybe it's the smoky internet cafe?

Give me a break Tree...he hit 29 HR's 116 RBI's and hit .291. Your point is he hit 29 HR's but not 30??? What a joke. He was a top 80 or better pick on most experts cheat sheets this year. Are you just in one of your "I think I'll argue about anything" moods?

he did that once. ONCE. he may do it again, but the way he's hitting right now, i'd be worried about him hitting 20 homers this season.

while his homers and ribbies were very similar pre-ASB and post-ASB last year, his batting average dropped 42 points and his strike outs rose significantly - 23 more in 46 LESS at bats.

to me, those are tell tale numbers that there is something to be concerned about, and it immediately makes him a tad more risky of a player than i would want to acquire.

but you're not asking for an OF in return, you're asking for a quality SP or RP, and there is a world of difference.

Yeah your right there is, most experts say always take the better hitting over pitching, more consistent and less prone to injury.

yea, in the first few rounds of a draft, maybe. but you still need quality pitching - and balance between hitting and pitching to win - and quality pitching is much more of a rare commodity than quality hitting.

Let's lay all the cards on the table here Tree.

It's in your best interest to talk down this trade.

Your really just lobbying here hoping teams that need help in the hitting categories buy your argument and move on.

It's not in your team interest to have this trade go through. IMHO.

I understand that, but I'm calling a spade a spade.

i'm sorry you think that, and well, you'd be wrong in thinking that.

as i said several times, i was offering my analysis, backed up not only by other current front runners, but also by at least one team sitting near the bottom of the pack as well.

look at my team. my hitting numbers right now are AVERAGE at best. while i think they'll come around, i'm currently in the top half in only 2 of the 5 categories, and currently my shaky pitching staff is all that is keeping me from a total free fall.

i'm one of those players who could swap pitching for hitting, and well, you're asking for too much imho, which is all i, and a few others here, have been saying.

i was trying to offer you constructive comments because you seemed genuinely confused over a lack of interest in your trade offers. instead, you accuse me of shady dealings in discussing it.

good luck with those deals.

 
146nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Mon, May 19, 2008, 08:48
Tree yea, but that's NOT what you said. you said For Weryth just add Nady to that list, which i know i interpreted as Nady is equal to Weyrth.

Actually it is what I said here it is exactly as written...

First

Using Yahoo game rankings for instance, Quentin is rated higher then everyone on your team except for Puljos.

second
Ellsbury is ranked higher then everyone on your team except Puljos and Wright.

Third
For Weryth just add Nady to that list.

Meaning Weryth has more Yahoo points then anyone on your team except Pulos, Wright and Nady.

Not hard to understand. No smoke involved, you just have to actually read the words.


i'm one of those players who could swap pitching for hitting, and well, you're asking for too much imho,

I've forgotton that I made you an offer. If it was un-fair, why don't you share it with everyone, I don't have a problem with that.

Anyway I thought you were the expert at asking too much for trades. Most of the league seems to think so... 8-}

In general any offer I've asked has been equal or in the other teams favor based on pre season projections and in season stats.

For example I've offered several teams Abreu for a mid level cheat sheet closer, players ranked much lower on cheat sheets before the draft.

Now is that a fair trade? Of course it is. I understand though saves are hard to come by in the this league so even a higher ranked player isn't always enticing. I understand why a team can't afford to take it...but it certainly is "fair".

Honestly, you are welcome to make "constructive" criticisms, the internets are free, but I learned a long time ago how your rap works and I let it go in one ear and out the other. No offense meant.




 
147Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, May 19, 2008, 12:11 		i'm one of those players who could swap pitching for hitting, and well, you're asking for too much imho,

I've forgotton that I made you an offer. If it was un-fair, why don't you share it with everyone, I don't have a problem with that.

never said you made me an offer. but what you're asking for - in this thread - is more than i am willing to pay.

Honestly, you are welcome to make "constructive" criticisms, the internets are free, but I learned a long time ago how your rap works and I let it go in one ear and out the other. No offense meant.

that's fine. maybe instead you'll accept the same criticism from several other members of this league when they said the same thing.
 
148nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Mon, May 19, 2008, 13:11
that's fine. maybe instead you'll accept the same criticism from several other members of this league when they said the same thing.

Well the problem here Tree is that MITH completely misinterpreted my points. In fact I had already stated everything he said.

The other two Bili and MBJ would be potentially greatly hurt by any upgrade to my pitching staff so we have to take that into council.

It's just funny to get such criticism concerning how fair my trade offers are from you...are you afraid I am muscling into your turf?




 
149Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, May 19, 2008, 16:45 		well, i'll let MITH speak for himself. if i'm wrong, i stand corrected.

if you really think that bili, mbj, and myself are saying what we're saying so we can retain some sort of competitive advantage, my guess is that you're really grasping.

with all due respect, over the last 3 seasons, bili, mbj, and myself have a combined two victories, one second place finish, and two third place finishes (F*ck. can i PLEASE stop being a bridesmaid!!?!!?). there might be something to the fact that we could have an idea of what we're talking about in regards to building a team and fielding a winner...

and in regards to your snarky It's just funny to get such criticism concerning how fair my trade offers are from you...are you afraid I am muscling into your turf?

take a look at my last wonderful deal. ya know, the one where the guy i acquired has hit .122, with 4 runs, 1 RBI, 1 SB, and ZERO homers, while the guy i dealt has hit .280, with 7 runs, 5 ribbies, and 2 homers for his new squad.

granted, i don't expect it to stay that way because i wouldn't have made the trade otherwise, but it's not as if my most recent trade has helped me any. in fact, quite the contrary.

 
150Perm Dude
ID: 6411911
Mon, May 19, 2008, 16:56 		That's just my brilliant trading strategy revealing itself. Really, nothing to comment on--it just is.

 
151Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, May 19, 2008, 20:59 		The other two Bili and MBJ would be potentially greatly hurt by any upgrade to my pitching staff so we have to take that into council........

Ah yes, it's our fear of a nerve nation that leads to our deceit; we secretly covet interchangeable waiver fodder like Werth and Cabrera and are just attempting to beat the price down for fear that nerve will score above a 3 in the pitching categories.

Sounds like nerve has unraveled yet another conspiracy designed to keep him down.

We can have his sixth OF when we pry his cold, dean fingers from his bat. :)
 
152Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, May 19, 2008, 21:01 		nerve -

Meanwhile, I'd give up a lot for Ellsbury, but considering the sticker price on Melky Cabrera, I can't imagine the package required to pick up some SB help.....
 
153nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, May 20, 2008, 00:32
MBJ

Meanwhile, I'd give up a lot for Ellsbury, but considering the sticker price on Melky Cabrera, I can't imagine the package required to pick up some SB help

I think I should pull him off the trading block. The smart people in the league seem to value pitching like gold and I don't think I can get value for a top prospect rookie who has 16 SB's in 6 weeks. What's he on track for 50?

Cabrera?

Keep your eyes on the waiver wire. I can't sit around and wait for someone in this league to make a reasonable trade.

Ah yes, it's our fear of a nerve nation that leads to our deceit...

No fears MBJ, I'm just having fun with the fantasy stud Tree.

You can keep your little circle smirk at the top of the leader board... maybe you can get together with Tree some weekend and give each other back massages and talk about what fantasy studs you are...8-}

 
154nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, May 20, 2008, 03:59

with all due respect, over the last 3 seasons, bili, mbj, and myself have a combined two victories, one second place finish, and two third place finishes

Tree we all know what a stud you are, there's no reason to remind us.



 
155Tree
ID: 31429205
Tue, May 20, 2008, 06:43 		NC - you're the one who kept calling into question the ethics of those trying to offer you reasonable suggestions as to why you might be having a tough time getting a bite on your trade offers.

i wasn't bragging - in fact, there was certainly some self-deprecation there as i am still kicking myself after botching last season - but merely offering you some further thought as to the credentials in this league of the people offering you some suggestions.
 
156nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, May 20, 2008, 09:10
Tree NC - you're the one who kept calling into question the ethics of those trying to offer you reasonable suggestions as to why you might be having a tough time getting a bite on your trade offers.

Tree lighten up.

Seriously you really are up tight.

Do you have a Thai massage place near where you live?

Why would it be unethical to disuade others from making a trade that might hurt your team? That's good fantasy baseball not unethical. It's called strategy. Gamesmanship.

In any case take an example from MBJ and just lighten up, I'm only F'ing around.

Unethical? Sheez.

As Baldwin would say "move along folks nothing to see here" just some pitiful loser, hoping he can hang around the middle of the pack and breath in the fumes of those in the glorious circle smirk above.




 
157nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Wed, Jun 04, 2008, 02:26
Just a note I picked up Andrew Miller P Florida who was a prospect but has gone past the 125 IP and 7 day waiting period.

I assume it's because the owner wasn't interested given his 5.00 plus ERA.

Nerve

 
158Perm Dude
ID: 575201623
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 00:21 		bili: Got your offer, and am mulling it over. Should decide sometime Tuesday.
 
159biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:14 		Cool.
 
160nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:34

So is there anything more to the trade that we don't know about? Or did PD just trade a top closer for a pitcher who was just reassigned to the minor leagues?

 
161biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:47 		Here we go again.

It was young for old. Saito's 38 and at the end of his career. Scherzer's 23, a top pitching prospect, and will almost certainly be back up and pitching for a league-leading team down the stretch, throws more than a K/inning, has good control and has massive up-side. On rotowire, he's the top pitching prospect in the minors.

It doesn't really matter to PD where he is right now, as PD is playing for the future.

If this trade doesn't make sense to you, than almost any trade in a keeper league isn't going to make sense to you.
 
162Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:48 		Or did PD just trade a top closer for a pitcher who was just reassigned to the minor leagues?

You've been here since the beginning. You've seen PD's other trades. That question was rhetorical, wasn't it?
 
163biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:49 		Jeezus. This was a good trade for PD. If one of you is offering more than the top pitching prospect for Saito, then fine. Otherwise, bugger off.
 
164Perm Dude
ID: 11544178
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:51 		I moved a 38-year old "top closer" with 8 saves for a soon-to-be top of the rotation pitcher with strong All-Star potential.

With Borowski, Sherrill, and Franklin still on the squad, I'll do fine in saves.

I think bili got the worst of the deal.
 
165Perm Dude
ID: 11544178
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 10:53 		You guys are off in some "context free world" when it comes to evaluating trades. Are you still convinced my Byrnes for Crede trade was bad?
 
166Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 11:55 		man, i was thinking "wow, PD did a nice job there of setting himself with a potential #1 starter for a looong time, without giving up much in return"....

btw, for anyone curious, here are the numbers for Byrnes and Crede, since the trade that caused people to explode:

Byrnes -
8 hits, 6 runs, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 1 SB, .136 avg.

Crede -
35 hits, 18 runs, 8 homers, 19 RBIs, 0 SB, .278 avg.

i sure could use a do-over on that one.
 
167Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 12:18 		You can't argue with Nerve's contention: PD traded a closer for a guy just sent to the minors. Yeah, Max may turn out to be great some day, and no, this isn't as bad as David Ortiz for Delmon Young.

If one of you is offering more than the top pitching prospect for Saito, then fine.

The funny thing is, Perm will never know because he never bothers to ask.

I know that Nerve has been offering Bobby Abreu for a closer. Maybe someday Max will be a better fantasy player than Abreu, but he won't be next year. Since Max is not a "prospect keeper", PD will have to use one of his 7 spots on him. You will be hard pressed to find any top 100 players list with Max's name on it come next March.

After perusing Perm's roster, maybe keeping Max isn't such a horrible idea, though I think he could have gotten more for Saito and Byrnes. No doubt he got out of Byrnes at the right time, but Crede is riding the pine for the Obamas.
 
168Perm Dude
ID: 11544178
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 12:30 		Actually, nerve and I have exchanged a few emails about potential trades. We haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I haven't exactly closed the door. I've done the same with MITH.
 
169biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 12:39 		If you think Bobby Abreu is more valuable to a club like PDs that Scherzer, than I think I can safely count you out as a competitor.
 
170Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 12:42 		You've said the same thing about Toby Hall and countless other "sure things" in the past, Bili.
 
171biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 12:51 		All I'm saying is Abreu is 34 and solidly in his decline. He will be of no use to a team like PDs, who is clearly a few seasons away from contention (no offense, PD). Why would he waste a keeper slot on rotting meat, when he could use it on someone who has a very good chance of actually helping him?
 
172Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:01 		Who says he'd have to keep Abreu? Trader Fred could fling him to someone else.

When you have a league of 14 teams with 7 keepers each, there is not much room for 20 year old unproven pitchers. They are found in the draft. Someone who was just sent down to the minors does not have a "very good" chance of helping anyone's team next year. The correct word is "slight". I, personally, hope that he does help PD as I have Max in another league.

The chance that Max will be a good pitcher increases as the years go by, but no team can afford to hold a young arm hoping he pans out in a few years. Max reminds me a lot of Jeremy Bonderman.
 
173biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:10 		Max has a lot more control than Bonderman.

If you think that PDs going to get more for Abreu than Saito down the line, I can't help you.

And if you think that someone in PDs position shouldn't be looking for high upside players, and instead, should be looking at trading old, declining players multiple times a year in a league that only has a handful of trades annually and then every time he does trade he gets ripped for it, I really, really can't help you.

Just admit this is a great trade for him and that you simply wouldn't have traded as much.

Sure, Max might get hurt (though he's 23, and on the back end of the injury nexus), and sure he may suddenly get wild (he's at better than 4/1 K/BB right now), or he may suddenly stop striking out batters at a 11K game clip, but he also could very will be a terrific front of the line starter for the next 20 years. Even if that possibility is small, and I happen to think it isn't, why on earth would you be recommending him trading for a player with no chance of helping him down the road instead of even a small chance?

That's moronic.
 
174biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:36 		And for all those who think I should have been offering more for Saito, the trading floor is open. I am entertaining any and all offers for Saito that are better than the best pitching prospect in the minors.

I eagerly await the flood of offers.
 
175nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:40 		You guys are off in some "context free world" when it comes to evaluating trades. Are you still convinced my Byrnes for Crede trade was bad?

Come on PD that's really not a fair question. No one knew that right after Byrnes got picked up he would get injured.

And Tree once again you insult our collective intelligence showing us stats for a trade when one of the players got hurt. Do you have any shame?

I agree with a lot of Zen's points but also understand Bili's arguments. I wouldn't use Rotoworld as the definitive judge of prospects though. Baseball America has Scherzer as the number 66 prospect in baseball. I would gladly trade the number 65 prospect in baseball for Saito.

PD your argument about Saito's 8 saves is also disingenuous. The guy has 38 K's in 27 innings. (wicked) His ERA is .229 and whip is .116 the 8 saves looks like a typical baseball statistical anomaly rather then anything he's done wrong.

I guess if PD wants to do this in June it's his choice but I made it clear I wanted a closer, and would have given up more then Scherzer.

Is the trade veto worthy?...nah just frustrating.





 
176biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:42 		How much more, Nerve? The opportunity is still available.
 
177biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:49 		And using pre-season rankings to judge a prospect that has had a massive rise in value in-season is far worse than using rotowire, imho. He wasn't on people's radar pre-season, as evidenced by the fact he wasn't drafted in our prospect draft. If you can find a current ranking that ranks him outside the top 20, I would be surprised.
 
178Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:52 		Max has gone from someone you hope you didn't waste your top waiver priority on to the next Christy Mathewson. Bili, you are starting to sound like a Merced realtor, anyone who doesn't see the world exactly like you, who doesn't drink your Kool Aid is a moron. It's a bit much, eh.
 
179nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 13:52

All I'm saying is Abreu is 34 and solidly in his decline.

That is such garbage and you know it. Have you been sniffing Tree's jock?

Abreu's line last year. 16 hr, 25 SB, .283 avg 101 RBI. That isn't exactly 'in decline". I guess you want to use a 2 month sample this season which still isn't that bad. If you are going to argue it's a good trade, can you at least leave the BS out of it.

Why did every expert have Abreu in their top 50 if he is rotting meat? That's BS Tree...I mean Bili.



 
180Perm Dude
ID: 11544178
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:03 		8 saves out of a closer, even one pitching well, makes him a liability (at least, to me!). We only use closers for saves.

The real reason Saito only has 8 saves is that the Dodgers have only given him 11 save opportunities. I don't really see that changing very much the rest of the season, though admittedly I don't follow the Dodgers as closely as some others do.

I also agree with bili on the prospect status of Scherzer going way up this year. Rotowire's prospect list (as of May 7th) has Scherzer as their #10 prospect.

As for Byrnes, you're right: No one saw his injuries. But no one else saw Crede's improvement either.

:)
 
181biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:06 		I simply looked at his OPS trend for the last 4 years. It appears to be declining pretty significantly, from .917 in 2004, the last time he hit more than 20 HRs, down to .803 this year.

I'm not saying he's worthless, and to someone in contention this year or next, he is still valuable, particularly if he remains on the Yanks (that RBI total would be 20-30 less on SF) and starts to steal again, but for someone in PDs position, he would be a very poor acquisition. In my humble opinion, of course.

Now if you want to offer him to me for Saito, I will give him consideration.
 
182biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:11 		Bili, you are starting to sound like a Merced realtor, anyone who doesn't see the world exactly like you, who doesn't drink your Kool Aid is a moron.

Well the only people that needed to be sensible were PD and me. If you are critical of the trade, then you open it up for me telling me like it is, not like you imagine it to be.
 
183Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:15 		Actually, I have become a lot more critical of your attempts to defend this trade than that actual trade itself. You may be "telling it like I see it" but you are on a serious acid trip.
 
184biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:17 		Heh. Fair enough. Just don't tell my boss. ;)

Maybe save your critiques for trades you actually think are unfair next time, and we can spare everyone's feelings.
 
185Perm Dude
ID: 11544178
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:18 		Now you know what tree feels like bili.

And hopefully, in about 2 months, you'll know what tree feels like right now. (and I know Byrnes got hurt. But before he did he sucked, to the tune of a .123 average which he raised from .098 the last week before he went on the DL).

:)

BTW, I like Abreu, and nerve is right that if he stays with the Yankees he'll put up some numbers. I wouldn't have moved Saito for him, but he might be a good fit elsewhere.
 
186nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:32

Bili today How much more, Nerve? The opportunity is still available.

Well now Bili things have changed since then haven't they.

I added Torres who took over for the former closer at Mil. I have Gonzalez who has been stashed on my bench since the start of the season and low and behold he may be in contention for saves in Atlanta. I guess I am not willing to give up quite as much as I would have a month ago when I was desperate.

I also added a SP that seems to be doing OK so far.

 
187Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:39 		Max for Saito: Great trade. If I'm PD, I'd rather have an opportunity to keep Max at the year than someone like Abreau. Saito is prolly in his last year of real value. I don't think he'll close next year. Maybe PD could have squirlled a draft pick to boot from bili, but he'd have wasted it anyway...:)

I sure don't see a lot to criticize in that trade.

The Crede/Byrnes trade was lopsided, unless PD knew Byrnes was going to be injured and that Crese was going to remain waiver fodder.
 
188biliruben
ID: 52561217
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 14:43 		Fair enough.

A perfect example of the situation of a particular team making a big impact on the value of a trade to each party.

It's hard to find situations where trades work out as win-wins in this league, and part of the reason I reacted so defensively to the critiques here was that I truly thought this was a great circumstance of a win-win. I'd given the trade a fair amount of thought, so did PD, and we came to a meeting of the minds. It just seemed that Nerve and SZ either hadn't given it due thought, or had not been thinking about it from our perspectives, which is the only way to think about it.

Sorry to be rough on you two.
 
189Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 16:08 		Come on PD that's really not a fair question. No one knew that right after Byrnes got picked up he would get injured.

And Tree once again you insult our collective intelligence showing us stats for a trade when one of the players got hurt. Do you have any shame?

and LAST YEAR, Crede was hurt, so he wasn't held in such high regard.

i maintained that even though i traded for him, i felt Byrne's 50 SBs weren't likely to be even close to being achieved again.

actually, i wasn't insulting anyone's intelligence. i think it was kind of obvious that Byrnes got hurt.

even so, those numbers are based on the 60 ABs he did get with my team, and they are $hitty numbers. if there is anyone here who thinks I got the better end of the Crede-Byrnes deal, then by all means, make yourself known, and make an offer for Byrnes.

Crede is younger than Byrnes, and was a player on the rise when injuries knocked him out in 2007. Byrnes, on the other hand, other than his one season of 50 SB, really hasn't done anything significantly. it's a case of everyone, myself included, overvaluing one guy, and undervaluing another.

last month, i turned down an offer of Adrian Gonzalez for Robby Cano. i wonder if people would have been up in arms if i'd been smart enough to take it.

there is more and more bitching about trades in this league, and because of it, it's become less fun. i actually haven't accepted, or offered, some trades, because i am concerned about the cry baby factor.

Byrnes-Crede was a situation of two teams trying to get better, and swapping players each owner thought would improve his team.

Saito-Scherzer is the same thing. PD is building for the future, and already has a number of closers. Scherzer has significant value to him. Saito, doesn't.
 
190Boldwin
ID: 295161616
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 16:26 		That's BS Tree...I mean Bili. - Nerve

Ouch...that's nasty!

 
191Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 17:09 		I wouldn't call Nerve or my response "bitching" at all, merely raising an eyebrow. Bili erupted, apologized, and all is well. There isn't a single cry baby in this league, we have a long tradition of active discussion and trades are the most popular topic. Don't think for a second, Tree, that you would rather have this league devolve into a mute public league, please!

You turned down Adrian Gonzalez for R Cano?! What in the world were you thinking?
 
193Tree
ID: 385271719
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 20:39 		SZ - i definitely prefer this league to a public league. i dont even play in a public league. never have.

i turned it down because it was right when Cano was getting hot, and right before A-Gon got hot. then, A-Gon hits everything out of the park, and Cano can't even hit anything into the ocean from a pier.

oy.
 
194Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 20:40 		Sure would like to sell high on Giambi and Harden. I guess you'd have to be in contention to find either useful. Make my keepers better or offer me an intriguing prospect.

Giambi's hitting .329 since May 5th, .360 in the last month and just hit his 16th and 17th home runs today.

The injury risk is there but if you're playing to now you won't find anything like that production as cheaply as you'll get either of them.
 
195Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 20:51 		Gonzalez for Cano:
it was right when Cano was getting hot, and right before A-Gon got hot.

For the record, I sent that offer on May 6th, I believe.

Not counting that day's stats Gonzalez was hitting. 302 with 8 hr through 126 ab. He'd hit 4 hr in his previous 5 days.

Cano was hitting .154 with 3 hr through 117 ab. He was 2 for 11 in his previous 3 games, though he did hit his 3rd hr the day before I sent the offer.
 
196Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Jun 17, 2008, 20:56 		I've also got a pretty effective closer in BJ Ryan who isn't doing me much good.
 
197biliruben
ID: 52561217
Wed, Jun 18, 2008, 13:56 		Look at Kinsler! And Adrian Gonzalez!

Your, Welcome, MBJ.

 
198Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Jun 18, 2008, 14:01 		Adrian Gonzalez is on my team.
 
199biliruben
ID: 52561217
Wed, Jun 18, 2008, 14:03 		Woops. I traded him to MBJ last year. What did you give for him?
 
200Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Wed, Jun 18, 2008, 14:06 		I think it was Brandon Webb for Joey Votto (prospect), Corey Hart and Adrian Gonzalez.
 
201biliruben
ID: 52561217
Wed, Jun 18, 2008, 14:09 		Nice.
 
202Perm Dude
ID: 45391915
Thu, Jun 19, 2008, 18:08 		Got one last save out of Saito. Now that he's a dried husk you're welcome to him, bili.
 
203biliruben
ID: 52561217
Thu, Jun 19, 2008, 18:11 		Just warming up for a run of 10 in a row, catapulting my Dodgers into first!
 
204Perm Dude
ID: 1463718
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 09:38 		Coldwater, would you drop Slowey? He's still a prospect.
 
205coldwater coyotes
ID: 570432817
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:24 		What is the rule about the max number of innings pitched for
prospects?
 
206Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:26 		150 ip
 
207Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:26 		150 ip
 
208coldwater coyotes
ID: 570432817
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:33 		did we increase it recently? I thought it was less
 
209biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:42 		125 innings.
 
210biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:47 		Dang. I guess I shouldn't have dropped him, unless we upped it?
 
211Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:51 		I'm prolly wrong....I thought it 1/2 of the AB requirement..
 
212Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:53 		I think Coldwater picked up Slowey fair and square. Kevin passed the 125 inning threshold on June 13th. Add seven days to that and that makes it June 20th. Coldwater picked him up on June 30th. Looks good to me.
 
213Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 10:58 		Yeah, it's 125ip. Sorry for the misinformation. Looks like he passed 125 on the 24th though against the Padres, making today the day - right?.
 
214coldwater coyotes
ID: 570432817
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:06 		It sounds like a genuine oversight so I have dropped him but only
his original owner should pick him up.
 
215Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:09 		I think tree has rights to him through today anyway. Slowey has 139.3 career IP. He had 9ip on the 29th and 6ip on the 24th. The 24th was when he surpassed the threshold, making today the 7th day thereafter, unless I'm missing something.
 
216biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:14 		Sounds right.
 
217Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:17 		actually, it was the 24th where he passed the 125 IP threshold, which means today is day 7.

unless i'm mis-understanding the rules (which is entirely possible), i do have through today to pick him up, no?

even so - the pickup was yesterday, which definitely was too early...
 
218biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:41 		You want him?
 
219coldwater coyotes
ID: 570432817
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:56 		yes
 
220biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 11:59 		That was directed at Tree, since he can't pick him up today, as he's on the WW. So he needs to specify whether he'll pick him, I think.

I think he's Tree's if he wants him, right CC?
 
221nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:01
I think Tree is right. (Although those 5 words are very difficult for me to utter)

It is 7 full days and at midnight end of day 7 and the start of the 8th day he is fair game, I believe that's the rule but it's off the top of my head.



 
222Perm Dude
ID: 1463718
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:03 		So Tree, do you want me to just put him on your roster? If so, tell me who I should drop.
 
223nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:21
If Tree doesn't want him then we have a new dilemma.

He's on waivers.

CC picked him up early so I don't believe there's any reason he would have right of first refusal. Now someone has to use a waiver wire if they want to grab him.

I hadn't noticed the 125IP so I wouldn't of grabbed him but that's not to say someone else wouldn't have.

Sure would be easiest if Tree takes him.

 
224Perm Dude
ID: 1463718
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:26 		CC has waiver priority #2, so it could happen.

BTW, let me just say that Taxman is having an outstanding season. Even with Ortiz on the DL, he's got a roster full of guys having great seasons.
 
225nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:41

CC has waiver priority #2, so it could happen.


Which adds further to the dilemma because if you drop a player Yahoo won't let you pick him up until he's cleared waivers.

I think the fair thing would be if Tree doesn't want him, and the number one waiver pick doesn't want him, the rest of us should allow him to clear waivers and let CC have him. That's just my opinion sitting with a near last waiver position.



 
226Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:42 		Re post 212

I was looking at Slowey's ESPN page to determine when he crossed the 125 threshold. The game log does not include the 9 inning gem he threw against the Brewers on the 29th, yet his season and career stats do reflect it. How pathetic!

His Yahoo page is up to date.

Morale of the story: Don't rely upon ESPN.
 
227Perm Dude
ID: 1463718
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:44 		I can always reset the waiver priority. But since he doesn't pitch until Saturday, maybe your solution is the cleanest.
 
228nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:49
PD my point was even though CC has number 2 pick the game "mechanically" won't allow him to pick the player up since he dropped him.

So if someone with the number 5 waiver position puts in a claim, Yahoo would give it to that or any other manager before CC, which doesn't seem fair to me.

 
229Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:52 		Nerve I've never heard of that before. Where did you get that idea?
 
230Tree
ID: 3533298
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:54 		i'm definitely claiming Slowey. just working it into my roster.
 
231Perm Dude
ID: 1463718
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 12:56 		#228: Ah, you're right--I forgot that. MITH, if you drop a player you can't use a waiver wire claim on him. He has to pass through waivers and be a FA for you to pick him up.
 
232Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 13:16 		OK I found it in the rules section:

All players dropped from a team's roster are immediately placed on waivers. During this waiver period—two days in Public Leagues and anywhere from zero to seven days in Custom Leagues—anyone in the league can claim the player except for the manager who dropped the player.

(Please note one exception to the above: If a player is added and dropped on the same day by a team, he will remain a free agent. Players acquired and released on the same day will not be subject to waivers.)
 
233nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Tue, Jul 01, 2008, 13:26

Please note one exception to the above: If a player is added and dropped on the same day by a team, he will remain a free agent. Players acquired and released on the same day will not be subject to waivers.

Smart rule, this didn't used to be the case and people would intentionally pick up and drop players to try to get people in the league to use their waiver priority.

Good rule change.

 
234biliruben
ID: 4911361723
Tue, Jul 08, 2008, 00:58 		I need a pitcher. And not just any pitcher. The best starting pitcher you think you many not keep! Old isn't an issue. Just good.

He may warrant a 1st round pick, if he's good enough. But only if he's good enough. Or you can dicker with MITH for a 5th rounder in the spring! ;)

Just kidding, MITH! You made great trades. I hope you are reading this, but I fear you aren't.
 
235Tree
ID: 49643105
Thu, Jul 10, 2008, 06:47 		CC just picked up Alexei Ramirez...

i don't believe anyone has picked him up this season and Baldwin selected him in the prospect draft this season, so he should still be a prospect.
 
236Tree
ID: 366341019
Thu, Jul 10, 2008, 22:48 		yo commish!!

we got an illegal player be played tonight. you've got to drop Ramirez from CC's roster, and now we'll have to see what sort of effect, if any, it has on the final standings...
 
237Tree
ID: 366341019
Fri, Jul 11, 2008, 00:07 		oh joy. today, i had two more players added to the DL.

that makes four for the first 10 days of July.
 
238coldwater coyotes
ID: 570432817
Fri, Jul 11, 2008, 00:09 		I did check the prospect list but missed him....APOLOGIES to all
 
239nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 09:39

You gotta hand it to him, PD seems to know how to trade people right before they get injured.

 
240biliruben
ID: 52561217
Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 11:59 		bah.
 
241nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 16:15


Umm I just drop Clay Bucholz by accident. Meant to drop Taylor Bucholz...same last name get it?

Is this something the commish can help with or am I screwed.

I plead impairment by Vodka Chronic

 
242Perm Dude
ID: 17656208
Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 16:23 		Fixed, for tomorrow's games.
 
244nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 16:43


Thanks PD

You have my vote for commish next year whether you want it or not... 8-]

 
245Tree
ID: 356122011
Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 18:38 		while you guys are adding and dropping, you might as well drop Alexei Ramirez from NC's roster too, as he's Baldwin's prospect.
 
246nerveclinic
ID: 5047110
Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 09:51
while you guys are adding and dropping, you might as well drop Alexei Ramirez from NC's roster too, as he's Baldwin's prospect.

I did a search but now realize I had the "match case" clicked so the all lower case didn't catch it. (Mac thing) Sorry.
 
247 Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 23:26 		I found a reference that prospect hitters are fair game a week after having 300 MLB at bats. If I am wrong about that ..p[lease let me know via e-mail...I may not ck this thread for a few days unless I receive a nudge.
 
248Perm Dude
ID: 586372716
Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 23:29 		7 days after a player passed the threshhold limits, he must be picked up by the manager who drafted him or he is fair game.
 
249nerveclinic
ID: 36536204
Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 02:35
To be really specific.

It's 7 full days after he reaches 300 AB so 12 midnight EST at the start of the 8th day after reaching 300 AB's I believe.

 
250biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 09:13 		Crawford and Braun. That ain't good. Losing closers is one thing. Losing your main power and main speed is another.
 
251nerveclinic
ID: 56755151
Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 02:55

I just picked up Alexi Ramirez.

He went over 300 AB's on the 7th I waited 7 days until the 14th and then picked him up after midnight ECT.

The time stamp on the move (On my computer at least)is showing 11:47PM. This is because my yahoo account is registered on the west coast.

I am making this post within 10 minutes of the move.

Nerve

 
252biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 09:48 		I calculated tomorrow earlier in the week, but I'm sure you are right.

 
253nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 01:14

Anyone know what happened to Wiggs?
 
254Tree
ID: 18747238
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 02:10 		he's around. but he did seem to abandon his team here, eh?
 
255Boldwin
ID: 176322815
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 06:02 		He's hasn't abandoned his other team I am in league with him. We're three and four there and unfortunately he's the three.
 
256Tree
ID: 517322410
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 11:33 		well, i wonder if that's why he abandoned it here. because he's NOT three and four.

nothing personal against anyone, but when someone goes a few weeks without doing anything to their team, that's not good in my opinion.
 
257nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 12:18
Let's put it this way. He still has Longoria in his line up.

 
258Tree
ID: 517322410
Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 12:33 		well...

and Hudson...and Lowell...we're talking three guys who haven't played in two weeks.

he's missing starts for his pitchers (kazmir yesterday, for example)

expecially if he's active in other leagues - which he is - he's abandoned this team as far as i'm concerned.

to me, that is one of the worst sins in fantasy sports - i don't care how far out of it your team is - you play out the string, because your lack of activity has a profound effect on the standings.

personally, i've got no issues saying that i want to find a replacement for next season, unless there is one hell of a great excuse, and considering he's remained active in other leagues, well, i can't imagine what that excuse would be.

in fact - i just realized, i'm in four other baseball leagues with Wiggs.

in the one where he's battling for a playoff spot (top 8 teams make the playoffs in an h2h league), he's still active,

in the other four - where he's largely out of contention for winning - he hasn't checked in since the first week in august..or, in one case, the last week of july.

like i said, unless there is some compelling reason he has - like Dingos eating his baby or something - i want to replace him for next season.
 
259Tree
ID: 0710256
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 07:11 		maybe i'm being overly dramatic and am the only one this thinks this way?
 
260nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 08:06

Tree

maybe i'm being overly dramatic and am the only one this thinks this way?

I am trying to get my lips to say it but it's really difficult...

you're riiigg

riiggggh

riririgggg

you're righhhhhh

 
261Boldwin
ID: 176322815
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 08:50 		Maybe institute a penalty. Anyone who misses an entire week activity loses a position in the next draft for each week innactive.

You don't pick, 1.01, you pick 1.02 instead. Assuming mr innactive is in last place for example.

This would combat draft position improvement thru deliberate mismanagement.
 
262Tree
ID: 13714198
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 08:53 		NC - say what you mean.

you don't have a problem with someone going inactive for weeks at a time?

it's one of the reasons Mark L lasted one season in this league - because he couldn't keep up with the day-to-day.
 
263nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 09:44



I thought I was pretty clear. I just don't like to say the words "Tree your right". It's painful.

I don't like Baldwin's idea at all. If someone comes into the league, and knows how competitive it is, then goes inactive, apparently while active in other leagues, well I'm not sure that really works.

If the manager has a great reason that's another story. (Stuck firefighting in a forest)



 
264Boldwin
ID: 176322815
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 10:07 		Well I am just thinking I sometimes set my lineup for nearly a week and someone might get the idea I wasn't active. I don't know if it counts you as active that day if you just checked and didn't change any settings.
 
265nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 10:37
I don't know if it counts you as active that day if you just checked and didn't change any settings.

That's a different story. We are talking about someone who has injured players in his line up for weeks, and isn't rotating in starting pitching.

 
266Tree
ID: 13714198
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 10:38 		ah. NC. i wasn't seeing that. stupid internets make it herd to infer. lol

Baldwin - one week isn't a big deal. people go on vacation. real life gets in the way.

but in a case like this - it's been two weeks, he's got THREE DLed players in his line up, he's been active in another league where he's contending, and he's been INactive in other leagues where he's not, well, that says a lot.

it's pretty clear that this league became "less important" for him, and again, that's fine. but i fully expect a commitment to a full season - not one that ends when you feel you're out of the race.

the reason this is my favorite league to play in is because everyone who plays is passionate about it - which is why we definitely have have some of the debates, arguments, and discussions we do.

i want to give Wiggs a chance to defend himself, but for me, it would take quite a bit of swaying at this point.

 
267PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 18:09 		Well on top of that, there is the fact of not even checking this thread and seeing what the last 14 posts are about.
 
268for wiggs
ID: 356191618
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 21:15 		Tree, i just got a message from Baldwin about this thread. I have not abandoned my team at all. Please tell me what you want me to do, my team got hammered with the injury bug in 2 weeks. Also I have had numerous things going on in my personal life which i have been attending too. My team has been inactive 2 weeks, not 2 months. I have no one i want to waive to pick up someone new for longoria, I dont see a whole lot of talent on the waiver wire for hudson or lowell, I have also kept lowell in my line up in other leagues, not because i "quit" just because i have nothing to pick up for him.

As far as letting a team go- i am sorry but i can think of you doing that in a couple leagues- the RWF just to name 1- you purposely didnt start people to get the number 1 pick.

As for not checking the past 14 posts- that was over the past 2 days and most of you know i am on vacation with no internet access. I am checking this from an internet cafe on vacation simply because baldwin told me about it when i just called him.

If you want to take my team away because i havent made a change in 2 weeks then so be it- but i will tell you life has been rough for a while and fantasy simply got pushed back alittle. I have had some medical issues, I am dealing with the adoption of a child, and the sudden death of a family friend. Excuse me for missing 2 weeks of fantasy baseball.
 
269Perm Dude
ID: 497322512
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 21:18 		Some of the proposed solutions seem a little harsh, IMO.
 
270Tree
ID: 307472517
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 21:30 		Wiggs - while i sympathize with your personal issues, and i do understand that the real world gets in the way, the fact remains that the one team where you're contending for a playoff spot remained active, while the other ones where you were not contending, did not.

your roster has plenty of room to move guys around on.

LaRoche into the util spot occupied by longoria, and any of your 4 DL guys onto the DL, which allows you to pick up any number of the quality 2b and 3b in the free agent pool so you're at least playing with a full line up.

there are a number of guys in the free agent pool who are starting, hitting over .300 for the last month, hitting 5 or more homers over the last month, and so on.

i don't understand your "no one to drop" argument. you have FIVE guys on your roster on the MLB DL, and you have THREE slots to use in this league, yet you're only using ONE.

all i'm suggesting is that you manage your team. if you're not going to do it, or can't handle it, then maybe you've got too many irons in the fire and should consider scaling back for next season.

now - as for your ABSO-F*CKING-LUTELY ABSURD ACCUSATION THAT I TANKED A SEASON IN RWF, YOU CAN EAT A DICK.

i freakin' helped write the rules in that league to prevent people from tanking seasons, and making it nearly impossible to do so. if you'll look at the rules, points scored don't determine your draft position, TOTAL points do - even if you didn't get credit for them.

so again, F*CK YOU for accusing me of cheating. if you have any balls, post it in the RWF thread, and see if ANYONE agrees with you.
 
272Tree
ID: 307472517
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 23:22 		Wiggs - again, i'm sorry for your health issues.

if there wasn't a pattern here of similar things happening in other leagues in previous years, i probably would have just let it go. but the fact remains that this isn't the first time where this sort of thing has happened.

it's not my call to boot you from the league. everything we've done is a democracy. but it's my duty as a league member to bring it to people's attention.
 
273biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 23:25 		I'm sorry to hear about your loss and your health problems, Wiggs. That's a tough diagnosis. Take care of yourself, focus on your family and your health, and as far as I'm concerned you are more than welcome back. You have a long history of being a good manager, and completely understand when other priorities sometimes get in the way.

It's certainly happening more and more with me these days as well. Freakin' had Harden on my bench last night! I should probably resign! Might cost me the championship.
 
274wiggs
ID: 356191618
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 23:26 		I just checked every team i have, everyones last action was august 15th or 14th that means i havent check any of my teams in 10 days- while i understand that 10 days is a long time its not the end of the world in baseball. I have followed this thing since april- checking every day or 2. Are you telling me i am the only person in this league that hasnt checked their team in 10 days?
 
275Pancho Villa
ID: 51546319
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 23:27 		Eric,
Take care of your health and your family. We're all pulling for you.
 
276 astade
ID: 1533770
Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 23:38 		Hey Wiggs,

I am very sorry to hear about the events surrounding you and your loved ones. If you are still on vacation, I hope that you are able to take some time away from 'real life' and savor life. I hope that you keep us informed of your prognosis (if you are comfortable with that). Nevertheless, I will email you later this week.
 
277nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 00:40
Wiggs


Obviously a health issue as serious as yours is a valid reason for inactivity. I wasn't aware of it and it certainly changes any of my comments above now that I know.

I wish you a speedy recovery.

Nerve

 
278Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 12:06 		I am saddened by the news of your diagnosis, Wiggs. Here's to a quick recovery.
 
279Boldwin
ID: 6755268
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 14:44 		That confirms my fear that it only registers your activity if you switch something and doesn't track your 'just checking' visits. Prolly the sort of misunderstanding that got me mislabeled in the 24 league initially.

I was hoping you had an explanation, Wiggs. I just wish it wasn't that 'good'.

Get well and enjoy every second.

Tree

...

Please remove a certain term from your mouth for a decent interval please.

 
280Tree
ID: 13714198
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 15:12 		Baldwin - i stand by what i said. while i feel awful for Wiggs' health issues, the fact that i got both IMs and emails from people who read this thread and pointed out that this is par for the course for Wiggs - every season, it's something.
 
281nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 16:55
That confirms my fear that it only registers your activity if you switch something and doesn't track your 'just checking' visits. Prolly the sort of misunderstanding that got me mislabeled in the 24 league initially.

Badwin I am absolutely certain. If you go and look at your team and do nothing, it does not register your visit. You have to make some kind of change to your lineup or it's as if you were never there.

 
282Tree
ID: 13714198
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 16:58 		That confirms my fear that it only registers your activity if you switch something and doesn't track your 'just checking' visits.

in most leagues, you're making daily line up changes, usually in pitching. if not daily, then nearly every day.

and if you've got 3 DL guys in your starting line up - well, that's cause for a line up change.
 
283Boldwin
ID: 6755268
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 17:02 		If you've got open slots available to DL them, yes.

Don't even tell me Wiggs doesn't get a pass to regain his equilibrium after a cancer diagnosis. Don't even go there, Tree.

I've played in too many leagues with him and so have you to be calling him a bad manager. End of story.
 
284nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 17:02
I've reached the Apex of Closerdom.

More closers then slots to use them in any given day. Hopefully one loses the role the next few days to help my sanity.

Why didn't this happen before the trade deadline?

 
285Boldwin
ID: 6755268
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 17:03 		Is it axiomatic that C-loserdom follows?
 
286nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Tue, Aug 26, 2008, 17:22
Is it axiomatic that C-loserdom follows?

OK let's look at the list Baldy. The only one here I started the season with was Nathan...in fact I dumped Fuentes who you were smart enough to grab.

Joe Nathan winner

Salomón Torres has been great 25 saves since taking over the role

Chris Pérez 5 saves 3.09 era so far so good

Jensen Lewis check this out 7 saves and a .66 ERA this month...whose this?

Luis Ayala only one save...your likely loser

Mike González has been OK but the Braves don't seem to wind up in save situations.

I just picked up Gonzalez off FA list after dropping him a few days ago. I dropped Lewis at least once while he was the named closer and picked him back up.

Must be late in the season.

I'll probably drop one soon because I need a few more Starts not saves. Although starts like Karstens 15.00 ERA gem are worthless.

nerve

 
287wiggs
ID: 356191618
Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 00:52 		Baldwin - i stand by what i said. while i feel awful for Wiggs' health issues, the fact that i got both IMs and emails from people who read this thread and pointed out that this is par for the course for Wiggs - every season, it's something.

please tell me another league that i have had an issue? I think i am a pretty good manager that not only runs my team, but am willing to help with others when they need it. I commish leagues, take queues to help others then they need it. I have been known to make phone calls or send text messages to keep people on task. like i said, if you want me out then say the word, in the past 2 weeks i have realized how little fantasy means and how important my family and friends are. While i feel like i have made some friends here on the board, i have recently realized they are not as true of a friendship as i had thought. True friends will do anything for anyone.
 
288Boldwin
ID: 6755268
Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 04:24 		I remember feeling that very intensely when the players in the 24 league turned on me except for @ 4 players who knew me from the poliboard.

These rotoguru relationships are often thinner than we would like to think.
 
289nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 5047110
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 01:26

So Carlos Quentin breaks his arm over a week ago and has already had surgery and still hasn't been put on the DL list?

Is it Yahoo or the White Sox.

I need the slot.

 
290Tree
ID: 14840105
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 06:45 		it's after Sept. 1. i seem to recall that with the roster expansions, teams take their sweet time to put players on the DL, if at all.
 
291biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 08:38 		Some interesting late season action! I finally claw my way up to tax, at least for the moment. MBJ does, in fact prove to be a pretender, as he slides, and the always dogged Tree is nipping at our heals.

Should be a fun pennant race!

After 4 straight starters blew-up on me, I was worried my solid 2nd in the pitching ratios would be destroyed, but my rotation has righted the ship to some extent. It will be hard to keep racking up Ws and Ks with FA goofballs without destroying my ratios and my season, but that's the boat I'm in. No matter how many pitchers I rotate through, I just keep sliding backwards in innings, it seems.
 
292Tree
ID: 13714198
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 09:08 		yea. last night was the first time in awhile i took a serious backslide. it's been fun coming up from perpetual fourth place and easily double digit points down, but now it gets tough.
 
293Perm Dude
ID: 35855107
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 09:19 		With my team I'm pleased to be where I am right now, frankly. I've held it together only through the use of timely FA pickups like Huff and Ludwick, and (as usual) stellar starting pitching.

Never would have thought I'd be able to have a shot at 8th place after VMart & Helton went down.
 
294biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Wed, Sep 10, 2008, 09:23 		Yeah, my keeper bats have been a pretty huge disappointment to me, and my FAs are what are keeping me rolling as well. And I lost my 2nd basemen yesterday.

Ethier has carried me this last month, and more importantly he's carried the Dodgers!
 
295Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 01:02 		Congrats, Bili, back-to-back ain't easy to do.

I put our Opening Day rosters into an ESPN league and let them ride. Here is the way the league would have finished if no one made any moves:

1 Team Tree 112
2 Team Taxman 107.5
3 Team SZen 93
4 Team Punk42AE 92
5 Team MyBoyJack 90
6 Team Wiggs 89
7 Team Nerveclinic 80.5
8 Team Biliruben 80
9 Team Pancho Padre 75
10 Team A F 65.5
11 Team Coldwater 61.5
12 Team Baldwin 45.5
13 Team Perm Dude 32.5
14 Team MITH 26

Bili, PD both made up a ton of ground. Punk, your ERA and WHIP from your Opening Day squad were worth 13 & 14 points. Whomever you picked up off the wire this year must have been Russian spies.
 
296PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 02:08 		Oh wtf!
 
297biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 09:37 		Thanks, Zen.

I thought I was going to have to focus pretty hard on pitching the last week to make sure, but that wasn't really the case (good, because I just started a new job, and didn't have the time last week). I scraped together points in a number of cats that stretched my lead enough that I could be more selective.

I didn't really dominate on any category except saves (odd, since I didn't have a keeper closer), and got pretty lucky to stay just ahead of the pack in nearly all of the other categories.

Running with just 2 starters is a bit time-intensive, however. It worked for a couple seasons, but I think I need to find a more passive strategy.

Great year everybody! Thanks for the great competition, especially from MBJ, Tax, and as always, Tree.
 
298Perm Dude
ID: 388372911
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 12:43 		Almost caught Coldwater! I gained 8.5 points in the last 2 days to get oh so close.

A great season--even the last 4 spots ended up being a battle. Congrats biliruben. Final standings:

1. bilibama bashers 119
2. Necro Butcher's Ear (tree) 108
3. Tax Errors (taxman) 107.5
4. Naked Celts (Myboyjack) 88.5
5. Dubai Camel Jockeys (nerveclinic) 86
6. Seattle Zen 84
7. Coldwater Coyotes 71
8. Obamas (perm dude) 70
9. PanchoPadre 61.5
10. wiggs 59.5
11. Baldwin's Berserkers 51
12. Action Figures 49
13. We Can Rebuild Him (MITH) 48
14. Vampirez (Punk) 47
 
299Tree
ID: 13714198
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 12:53 		congrats Bili. as i just posted in the thread on the yahoo site, you had a fantastic season.

it's frustrating to AGAIN not win after four-straight top three performances, but the level of competition is so high in this league.
 
300PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 12:58 		Congrats on the win Bili!
 
301nerveclinic
      Leader
      ID: 5047110
      Tue, Sep 30, 2008, 16:23

Good job bili, really impressive.



 
302biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, Sep 30, 2008, 16:47 		Thanks, all.

Every single one of my keepers took a step or two down this year and I have no looming stars on the immediate horizon, so my guess is the three-peat is out of the question. It's anyone's league next year.
 
303Taxman
      ID: 4851818
      Wed, Oct 01, 2008, 00:54 		Congrats Bili

Having been douched early, middle and late by Ortiz, I never thought I would be in the top five, much less on top for all but the last two weeks of post all star season.

I don't know where I tanked at the end, but I was glad to see the season end before I fell to 15th place. Work got real stupid about August 10th, then my 7 yr old chocolate lab companion died (out with dog walker in 100 degree heat, she sufferd heat stroke and colapsed. Dog walker went to closest vet...Petsafe's Banfield..who although unable/untrained/unprepared to perform triage emergency work, did not refer to a real vet clinic...the dog walker figured his error of choice 20 minutes too late (seriously..and an emotional blow to one making their way in the in the pet business world). Then with football drafts..followed by Hockey drafts occupying all my availableFantasy time, I am pleased to receive a Bronze medal in this competition. Hats off to the to bili. Job well done.
 
304biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Wed, Oct 01, 2008, 11:03 		Sorry about your dog, Tax. That's a shame. I could have told you about Banfield. My wife (she's a vet) was just howling about their incompetence yesterday. Even the the employees take their pets somewhere else.
 
305Tree
      ID: 14946111
      Wed, Oct 01, 2008, 13:02 		Tax - sorry about your pup.

three years ago my 7-year old black lab hurt her back, and the pain meds she was on (rimdayl) toxified her liver and she died in what i presume was a painful way. not fun at all.

i know your pain.
 
306Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 18:15 		It's time to check amongst ourselves to see who will be coming back next year. MITH has made it clear that he will not be back, he will be missed. Anyone else not coming back?

Here's to hoping that Wiggs health will allow him to keep playing.
 
307Boldwin
      ID: 571021718
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 19:04 		As long as Obama hasn't come for me. 8].../
 
308wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 22:15 		Tax, sorry to hear about the dog, I actually take my dogs to banfield and now you have me worried about it. We have liked them so far, found out my female had limes(sp) disease and she has had it along time. Banfield found it and took care of the problem, she is doing SOOOOO much better.

As for me, my health seems to be holding steady, still having some issues, but nothing too bad. However i will not be returning to the league next season. I have enjoyed my time with you all. Good luck to all. Thanks
 
309Boldwin
      ID: 571021718
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 23:05 		Glad to hear things have stabilized. Don't be in a rush to leave, think it over.
 
310Perm Dude
      ID: 541081717
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 00:19 		I'll certainly be back for baseball. Will probably drop football, however. I feel I've been mailing it in all season, and my record shows it.
 
311Tree
      ID: 51011420
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 09:54 		i'll be back...time for me to win a title, damnit.
 
312biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 10:05 		In
 
313Boldwin
      ID: 571021718
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 10:56 		I want Boxman and other conservatives invited to the table finally.
 
314Perm Dude
      SuperDude
      ID: 030792616
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 11:05 		The process has always been a nominating & voting one. I have no problem with anyone being nominated who are on the boards--even lurkers who only post sometimes.

I *do* have a bit of a problem with people who won't vote for someone because of their political beliefs, as expressed on these boards. The leagues we play in are opportunities to put that all aside.
 
315Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 11:42 		Invitation to new members and discussion is always done via e-mail, not on the boards.
 
316 Boldwin
      ID: 4010491810
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 11:55 		Please use the above addy when contacting me for the short term.
 
317Tree
      ID: 51011420
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:08 		1. Baldwin - if that's the email you want to use for group discussions, you should probably head to the yahoo site and associate it with your team - because that's how the mass emails are started for discussion.

2. i am sick and fcking tired of your insinuations that we don't invite conservatives to our fantasy leagues. you say the same thing every time, and you are proven to be full of crap every time.

at the very least, Boxman was asked to join our football league, and he turned it down. i've still got the the emails if you need to see them. SZ and Walk also turned down invites for football the same year.

yes, there have been several owners who have said "i can't play in a league if that person is in it," and that's fine. that's the nature of fantasy sports. but those arguments had less to do with politics, and more how people handled themselves on the board.

3. So Baldwin, here's your opportunity. head to the yahoo site, and send a mass email to all the owners, and begin the discussion. who would you like to nominate to join the baseball league, and why do you want the there, in regards to their fantasy sports credentials.
 
318 Boldwin
      ID: 4010491810
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:12 		Rather than subject our lurking conservatives and beaten up conservatives to being beaten down in public, please e-mail me the case for your inclusion and I will work on it.
 
319Boldwin
      ID: 4010491810
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:25 		I have gone so far as errasing the old email address showing on the yahoo manager's page entirely from my profile and it still shows on the manager page. Even after relogging. Does this frustrating stuff only happen to me?
 
320Perm Dude
      SuperDude
      ID: 030792616
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:29 		No. All the critics of the MSM find this to be happening to them as well.
 
321Tree
      ID: 51011420
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:49 		i do like how Baldwin is strictly bi-partisan with his selection process. OY.

if you're a semi-regular poster here, please feel free to toss your name into the hat by posting here, and then we'll discuss it amongst ourselves over email.

remember, if you are skull and bones, or were put into power by the Weather Underground, you've got a real solid chance.
 
322Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 12:51 		in for now
 
323nerveclinic
      ID: 26107108
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 15:14

I am definitely in.

My criteria for who joins the league has nothing to do with political persuasion. Just looking for a committed, active fellow manager.

 
324nerveclinic
      ID: 26107108
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 15:16
As long as Obama hasn't come for me. 8].../

Baldwin word has it they will allow several hours a week to make changes to your fantasy roster in the re-education camps. No worries.
 
325Boldwin
      ID: 4010491810
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 17:08 		Americorps has computer access?

Actually it will start with just the young so we'll prolly have a while before it starts conflicting with leagues.
 
326PV in Bahamas
      ID: 321051818
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 19:18 		Yeah, I'm on a Carnival cruise I won from a manufacturer with a girlfriend.

I'll play baseball again this year.
 
327Taxman
      ID: 3985420
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 19:35 		PV..which manufacturer has a girl friend??

I'll be back.
 
328coldwater coyotes
      ID: 451019122
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 21:57 		I am in..
with Clinton, Holder and Emanuel. So disappointing that he wants
to pick people that will lead to antagonism. As for giving $$ to
GM, what a joke ...they have failed miserably as a competitive
entity so let them fall...that is the basis of capitalism. Obama what
about giving Tom Friedman a job in
technology/investment/environment.
Last rant ... Dodgers please do not sign Manny another
Andruw/Pierre/Schmidt.
 
329Tree
      ID: 51011420
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 00:07 		man..it just occurred to me that i had, for at least part of last season, both Cy Young winners and one of the two MVP winners...

...and still didnt win...ugh...
 
330Seattle Zen
      ID: 358591721
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 00:19 		Action Figures e-mailed me, so he's in. Waiting to hear from Punk.
 
331PuNk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 00:43 		In