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| Posted by: Perm Dude
- [5044818] Fri, May 01, 2009, 13:56
I wanted to post a bit about some of the credit card reform that Obama and the Dems are proposing, but also came across some debt collector horror stories that probably goes hand-in-hand with the whole problem.
Will post more in a bit. |
| | | 1 | Boxman
ID: 571114225
Fri, May 01, 2009, 18:53
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Debt collectors run fast. A debt collection company had a case of mistaken identity (not theft, just mistaken) with me and they thought I was somebody else. They thought I was lying when I told them I wasn't who they thought I was. Over the period of a couple months, erroneous collection calls turned into people knocking on the door which turned into someone snooping around my backyard peering into windows looking to see if anyone was home.
Well I was home and so was my guard dog. My yard is gated with a lock and I have a dog sign up. I let my little sweetheart outside to play and lo and behold the collection agent happened to be on my property. Never saw someone hop a five foot chain link fence in one fell swoop before.
I love that story.
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| | | 2 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Fri, May 01, 2009, 20:15
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I love professional dunners. They're often good for a laugh.
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| | | 3 | Perm Dude
ID: 284531321
Wed, May 13, 2009, 22:56
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I'm not convinced that additional information to consumers alone about credit cards will solve very much (since many consumers are, frankly, stupid), but some additional information might help. For example, a debt payoff date, assuming minimum on-time payments made might be helpful, as well as an annual fees paid statement.
This Yahoo article is not bad at laying out some ideas, as well as pointing out that the difficulty usually isn't with the credit card companies.
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| | | 4 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Wed, May 13, 2009, 23:30
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recently, i received a letter from one of my credit card companies, informing me that due to "extraordinary economic situations", they were jacking my APR nearly 7 points.
this, despite the fact i haven't ever paid late, and, as a benefit to them, i maintain a balance, so they get paid those finance charges.
i called them, calmly, and told the person who answered the phone that unless they were able to reduce my APR right now, i would like to speak to a supervisor. He started to give me some sort of mumbo jumbo, and i repeated "i don't want anything else. if you can't lower my APR, please transfer me to a supervisor."
he did.
i spoke to a supervisor. i told them that i had an extraordinary economic situation myself- i was laid off a few months prior, and around the same time, they got over 3 billion dollars in federal bailout money...
...and that i would take my balance elsewhere if they didn't want to continue to make money off me.
she heard me. and they gave me a "10 month extension" on my previous APR, and reduced it back to that.
i told her she'd be hearing from me in 10 months then, and she said "based on this conversation, i'd expect nothing less."
it was a good convo, but screw the credit card companies...
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| | | 5 | Footwedge
ID: 28055812
Thu, May 14, 2009, 11:17
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It seems the government is at cross purposes here. The only way solve the collection problem would have to include or would force lenders to limit the amounts and the people they lend money. This contradicts the grow the economy at all costs philosophy. This requires reckless spending on the part of individuals and/or the government to keep things growing.
Having a son that worked in collections for several years I agree that collectors often cross the line when they are under pressure to collect from individuals that for the large part live to dodge them and avoid payment at all costs. After two years of ulcers from dealing with people who hid behind the law to avoid payments. Sometimes they would even have family members taunt him knowing that he would get in trouble if he crossed the legal lines.
Based on his experiences I can see why some people and companies cross that line from frustration. Don't get me wrong it doesn't excuse bad behavior just explains it.
The bottom line is I don't think more regulations are the answer. Unless it restricts the companies rates and ability to loan to borderline credit cases. Of course this would just spawn tons of discrimination law suits from those denied credit.
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| | | 6 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 12:50
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It speaks a ton about this country when the conversation takes the tone of "screw the credit card companies" or discussing the best way to reform or dodge the system.
I have a novel idea. Don't get a credit card. Don't go into debt. Pay cash for things and learn to say no to yourself.
You owe the money to the credit card company fair and square. Are those charges yours? Did you buy that junk? Then shut up and pay up. You don't like the interest rate? Either read the terms of use or don't get the credit card.
I'm sick of people bitching about those things like they are the victim. I suppose the next thing we're gonna do is blame the rattlesnake for biting.
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| | | 7 | Building 7
ID: 471052128
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:03
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According to article VIII of the U S Constitution, All citizens have a right to a credit card.
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| | | 8 | Razor
ID: 371502414
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:17
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You owe the money to the credit card company fair and square. Are those charges yours? Did you buy that junk? Then shut up and pay up. You don't like the interest rate? Either read the terms of use or don't get the credit card.
In the real world, credit is going to exist whether you think it should or not. And consumers of all products, including credit cards, have rights. So when a credit card company decides to increase the price of their service by 40% without even so much of a notification to the customer, that's a problem. And no, the solution is not to yell at the consumer and say, well, why did you buy the product in the first place? What would you say if the APR on your mortgage jumped 40%? Would you say, well, guess I shouldn't have bought a house?
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| | | 9 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:19
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Is a rate change covered in the terms of use?
What would you say if the APR on your mortgage jumped 40%?
I would refer the bank to my lawyer because I have it documented that my mortgage rate cannot change.
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| | | 10 | Perm Dude
ID: 284531321
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:30
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Credit card companies and collection companies are, of course, two different entitities. But it is clear that credit card companies intentially confuse lenders in order to obtain higher rates (and therefore, more fees).
I'm sure you are right, Boxman, but what if the only mortgages being offered all had language that said your rate could jump 40% whenever the bank felt it could do so? At minimum, you'd want that language clarified in the paperwork so that people can make better loan choices (including whether to get one at all). And you'd want to eliminate the ability of banks to change the terms of the loan agreements unilaterally.
As it is, many cardholders do not have the ability to decline changes in their lending terms without having to pay the card balance off immediately.
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| | | 11 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:33
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Credit card companies and collection companies are, of course, two different entitities. But it is clear that credit card companies intentially confuse lenders in order to obtain higher rates (and therefore, more fees).
If they break laws then prosecute them. Otherwise if people want to play the blame game on credit cards they should start with the man in the mirror.
hat if the only mortgages being offered all had language that said your rate could jump 40% whenever the bank felt it could do so?
What if Martians landed on the White House lawn? You don't need a credit card. You do need a place to live.
You play with snakes you get bit by snakes. It's that simple. Pay cash or learn to do without.
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| | | 12 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:34
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you'd want that language clarified in the paperwork so that people can make better loan choices
If the terms of use of a credit card are cloudy and you don't understand it, why did you get one in the first place?
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| | | 13 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:37
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Box
If you don't like people bitching about credit cards then skip the post.
No one is trying to "dodge the system".
People are fed up when they have an agreement with a credit card company, at a particular rate, and then the rate is raised because the bank gambled, over leveraged, got greedy and went bankrupt and the tax payer bailed them out of insolvency... they are the deadbeats.
I'm sick of people bitching about people who complain about credit cards like they are arrogant pricks who have everything in life under complete control and everyone should be just like them.
I have an 840 FICO score, 840, but I still have to use a credit card at times for my business.
If they jack the rate up out of the blue, even though I have perfect credit, have never even once missed a payment, because they screwed around and over leveraged and we are bailing them out WITH MY TAX DOLLARS. And now they need more money because they screwed up. They are changing the terms of how much they are charging after they've loaned the money.
That's like moving the hole on the putting green after I've taken my shot.
Why can't I bitch?
They are deadbeats. They are broke, insolvent, bankrupt and we bailed them out. I'll bitch as much as I want.
What don't you get?
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| | | 14 | Perm Dude
ID: 284531321
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:42
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Boxman: You miss the point (maybe your high horse has skewed your vision a bit).
Did you buy your house with cash? No?
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| | | 15 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:43
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I have a novel idea. Don't get a credit card. Don't go into debt. Pay cash for things and learn to say no to yourself.
You owe the money to the credit card company fair and square. Are those charges yours? Did you buy that junk? Then shut up and pay up. You don't like the interest rate? Either read the terms of use or don't get the credit card.
i don't think the issue is paying the charges you've accumulated.
The issue is deceptive practices that credit card companies use. Yes, they are well with in their right according to their T&C to raise the interest charges whenever they want.
Does that make it right, or ethical? no, it doesn't. Deceptive practices in business are something that goes on all the time, and often, it takes the government to reel it in. That's tried and true.
as for not having a credit card, but as an adult, i'm sorry, it's just not possible to not have one, and to "pay cash for things..."
try renting a card without a credit card. or maybe buying a plane ticket. or really, any purchasing anything online.
it ain't that easy without a credit card.
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| | | 16 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:43
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What don't you get?
why you would not just change your credit card company not all the banks are insolvent. And quit complaining.
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| | | 17 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:44
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If you don't like people bitching about credit cards then skip the post.
Suck it. This isn't Dubai. The First Amendment still exists for now.
No one is trying to "dodge the system".
Bvllshit. What do the terms of use say?
People are fed up when they have an agreement with a credit card company, at a particular rate, and then the rate is raised because the bank gambled, over leveraged, got greedy and went bankrupt and the tax payer bailed them out of insolvency... they are the deadbeats.
Do the terms of use cover rate changes?
I'm sick of people bitching about people who complain about credit cards like they are arrogant pricks who have everything in life under complete control and everyone should be just like them.
Learn to do without.
If they jack the rate up out of the blue, even though I have perfect credit, have never even once missed a payment, because they screwed around and over leveraged and we are bailing them out WITH MY TAX DOLLARS. And now they need more money because they screwed up. They are changing the terms of how much they are charging after they've loaned the money.
Fvck your credit score. What do the terms of use say?
That's like moving the hole on the putting green after I've taken my shot.
No that's like you're too much of a lazy a$$ to read the terms of use. Like I said before, if they broke the law then prosecute them. Otherwise read the terms of use and shut the fvck up.
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| | | 18 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:44
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If they break laws then prosecute them. Otherwise if people want to play the blame game on credit cards they should start with the man in the mirror.
Isn't this sort of the point, after all. People in Congress think these practices SHOULD be illegal... but they aren't. So they're changing the law. Which is how things work.
I actually agree with Boxman (go ahead--frame this post!) to the point of "you agreed to those stupid terms so live up to them". However, that doesn't mean I think the situation is right or that credit card companies are not guilty of, at the bare minimum, trying like hell to hide the onerous things they can randomly do on a whim that they probably ought not be able to do.
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| | | 19 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:45
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Bleh, I screwed up the italics. You get the idea.
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| | | 20 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:46
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Yes, they are well with in their right according to their T&C to raise the interest charges whenever they want.
Does that make it right, or ethical? no, it doesn't.
OK so if it's in there and it's not "right" or "ethical" why did you go along with it?
as for not having a credit card, but as an adult, i'm sorry, it's just not possible to not have one, and to "pay cash for things..."
Yes it is. Say no to yourself.
try renting a card without a credit card. or maybe buying a plane ticket. or really, any purchasing anything online.
Debit card?
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| | | 22 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:48
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I think the point is that we live in a culture where it is difficult for most people to maintain what they believe is an acceptable standard of living without the use of credit. Obtaining and building credit is crucial for many people to be able to purchase a home.
We put regulations on financial industries to curtail behavior that exploits people who are vulnerable. I haven't looked very much into exactly what Obama has proposed but I think the smart approach would be to look at the actual proposals and consider them on their merits, rather than assume the kneejerk, reactionary position of "if people want to play the blame game on credit cards they should start with the man in the mirror". I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a look at restricting some of the credit companies more questionable tactics.
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| | | 23 | Perm Dude
ID: 284531321
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:49
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I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment, but it doesn't mean that we should take a look at restricting some of the credit companies more questionable tactics.
Exactly.
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| | | 24 | Razor
ID: 371502414
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:49
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What if Martians landed on the White House lawn? You don't need a credit card. You do need a place to live.
Rent.
Though you have ranted aimlessly about why consumers should have fewer and less credit, you have not made a good argument as to why consumers cannot demand to have more protection against credit card companies. They can and they soon will.
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| | | 25 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:51
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I think the point is that we live in a culture where it is difficult for most people to maintain what they believe is an acceptable standard of living without the use of credit.
Key phrase, "WHAT THEY BELIEVE".
Obtaining and building credit is crucial for many people to be able to purchase a home.
Wrong. Rent for a few years. Save up a down payment of at least 20% and in any economy, save for the recent credit crisis which wasn't caused by people paying cash for things, you'll find a bank. It's been done.
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| | | 26 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:53
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you have not made a good argument as to why consumers cannot demand to have more protection against credit card companies. They can and they soon will.
Fine, change the law I don't care. Just don't b!tch that you're a deadbeat because you were too god damn lazy to read the terms of use of something you admit is confusing or unethical.
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| | | 27 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:53
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Mith is right there is nothing wrong with looking into restricting some of the credit companies more questionable tactics. The ironic thing is that if these tactics really make the company money then those who remain using CCs will face higher rates to make up for these lost revenue streams and in turn make new group of people worse off than they were before.
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| | | 28 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 13:57
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Key phrase, "WHAT THEY BELIEVE".
I don't understand what you mean by that, Boxman. Isn't everyone's idea of an acceptable standard of living simply a matter of what they believe it to be?
Wrong.
No, I'm not wrong. For many people, saving up a 20% down payment isn't an option.
For others, even with a 20% down payment, a high interest rate resulting from no credit history can still make home ownership highly difficult.
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| | | 29 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:09
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Isn't everyone's idea of an acceptable standard of living simply a matter of what they believe it to be?
BELIEVE is different than EARNED. I believe I should have a Humvee with Scarlett Johanssen in the passenger seat blowing me with I drive to work. (A hummer in a hummer so to speak.)Sadly American Express doesn't offer that benefit. I digress.
Yet I haven't EARNED that because I don't have the coin to do so.
For many people, saving up a 20% down payment isn't an option.
Then rent. There's no dishonor whatsoever in renting a home.
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| | | 30 | Building 7
ID: 471052128
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:12
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I pay off my balance every month. Then it doesn't matter what interest rate they charge. Why you would want to pay 19% extra for something is beyond me. Unless you're using it to buy neccesities or for some emergency, you shouldn't use it, if you can't pay it off. Save first and then buy it. But, that's not the American way. Plus about every five months, I get a round trip airline ticket for free.
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| | | 31 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:17
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I don't use them. I don't want them and if you come near me with one I'll cut your throat with it.
We ALMOST got into deep s#it with those. Cut them up and paid them off never to be heard from again. You can live on cash or do without. It does happen.
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| | | 32 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:35
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Boxman, I don't want this to go off on a silly tangent, but I think you're missing the point on my standard of living point. What you are talking about is not what have "earned". There is no olympic committee tasked with putting a dollar amount on an acceptable income to have sufficiently "earned" your illicit Humvee/Scarlett Johanssen/sodomy fantasy or (if I might return this tangent to the issue) any level of quality of life. No matter how you swap the rhetoric around, the fact is that it is still a matter of discretion and therefore, what people believe. I don't know how to make it any more simple.
Anyway, I was deliberately vague with my wording earlier but if you insist on a more specific sentiment (of if for no other reason, than to just put this silly tangent to rest my opinion is that a modest, responsible middle-class standard of living is something that is highly difficult for most middle-class Americans to achieve without the use of credit.
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| | | 33 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:37
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Sheesh.
Sorry for all the grammar errors there.
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| | | 34 | Perm Dude
ID: 284531321
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:41
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Boxman: I hear ya. You don't have or want credit cards. I don't either. Debit cards only. Mortgage paid off, no debt except for paying off a geothermal system I had put in here in December.
But this doesn't mean I stand by while credit card companies mislead consumers.
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| | | 35 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 14:50
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try renting a card without a credit card. or maybe buying a plane ticket. or really, any purchasing anything online.
Debit card?
go for it. try to rent a car with a debit card. i do believe only one major car rental company allows you do so, but only if you have enough in your account to cover something like half the value of the car.
I believe I should have a Humvee with Scarlett Johanssen in the passenger seat blowing me with I drive to work.
your incredible use of curse words in this thread to get your point across is fairly entertaining. Add to it your anger and indignation in this thread, and then mix in the above comment about Scarlett Johanssen, i believe i hit the nail on the head in a different thread about how much you and your wife were missing out by not committing sodomy with each other.
obviously, despite your proclamations elsewhere, you do, in fact, enjoy sodomy, or, at the very least, believe it is well within your right to enjoy sodomy.
kudos to you for coming around.
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| | | 36 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:02
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I don't want them and if you come near me with one I'll cut your throat with it.
What is wrong with you?
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| | | 37 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:02
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I don't know how to make it any more simple.
Oh fvck off. You know exactly what I was getting at. This is just your victimization spin game bvllshit. Not buying it. Leave the conversation Mith.
But this doesn't mean I stand by while credit card companies mislead consumers.
If they broke the law put them in prison. If the rules are confusing enact legislation to clarify. DON'T give me this woe is me I am the victim bvllshit.
i do believe only one major car rental company allows you do so
Then do business with that one or do without.
The rest of your post oddly enough involves sodomy. Not sure why. Come out of the closet anytime you want. You might get more respect.
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| | | 38 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:08
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Wow, someone's sure getting pissed for no reason.
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| | | 39 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:14
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Oh fvck off.... spin game bvllshit... Leave the conversation Mith.
My apologies to Dave Hall and the forum and all readers if my behavior here is not conducive to civil discussion.
Please allow me to remain in the discussion and I'll promise to emulate the more reliably solid posters like Mr. Boxman.
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| | | 40 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:30
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i do believe only one major car rental company allows you do so
Then do business with that one or do without.
not in every airport. thusly, not possible.
The rest of your post oddly enough involves sodomy. Not sure why. Come out of the closet anytime you want. You might get more respect.
you're the one who introduced sodomy into this conversation.
I don't want them and if you come near me with one I'll cut your throat with it.
What is wrong with you?
welcome to the New Conservative movement. man, to think at one point i thought you were one of the most conservative posters here. now, you're not even close. :o) lol
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| | | 41 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 15:52
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Despite my own use of the term in this thread, I think we could all do with far less parsing of the topic of sodomy here.
Just a suggestion.
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| | | 42 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 16:18
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We ALMOST got into deep s#it with those. Cut them up and paid them off never to be heard from again. You can live on cash or do without. It does happen.
Now I see the problem. Your a former addict. I haven't had that problem.
You seem to be confusing 2 issues though.
People who uncontrollably use credit cards (sounds like you've been there done that) and people who use it responsibly and then get bent over by the credit card company.
Yeah we all know about the fine print Box, the hypnosis, the sleazy business practices. This isn't Dubai though, we expect integrity in business transactions and we are genuinely and understandably shocked when we have a business relationship with a company, follow all the rules, pay our bills on time and then get shafted because the welfare banks with their hands already in our pockets because they are broke, and have already borrowed money from me, without my consent, to stay in their house instead of being the punks out on the street that they should be...then they use the fine print to bend a good customer over and stick it in again.
Oh fvck off. You know exactly what I was getting at. This is just your victimization spin game bvllshit. Not buying it. Leave the conversation Mith.
Sad Box to see you so flustered, disheveled, desperate.
That's what defending deadbeat, bankrupt, welfare state banks will do to you.
They are insolvent, bankrupt and walking around with their cupped hands begging for help and we are bitching when they bend us over with your fine print?
The lack of logic is embarrassing.
You have a lot of money in financial stocks perhaps?
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| | | 43 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 16:23
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Suck it. This isn't Dubai. The First Amendment still exists for now.
Funny that. You made my point exactly. We can bitch about bankrupt companies all we like if you are tired of it why don't you move to Dubai?
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| | | 44 | Perm Dude
ID: 484431415
Thu, May 14, 2009, 16:43
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If the rules are confusing enact legislation to clarify.
Yay! You've come around, through the dark, dark woods, to the Obama position. Welcome to the light. Now sit in the corner for awhile while you get your bearings.
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| | | 45 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 16:50
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For the records my posts have nothing to do with Obama.
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| | | 46 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:02
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Box Bvllshit. What do the terms of use say?
Um... Box is our punk?
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| | | 47 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:03
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That has been suggested before.
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| | | 48 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:15
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They are insolvent, bankrupt and walking around with their cupped hands begging for help and we are bitching when they bend us over with your fine print?
you seemed almost as upset as boxman on this issue. Boxman is right about how many people have used credit cards to live above there means and for the most part those people have no right to complain.
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| | | 49 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:26
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This is too much fun, sorry can't help it.
you agreed to those stupid terms so live up to them"
So if Lays Potato chips put a 10 page pamphlet in their bags and somewhere in the fine print it said "by the way, some ingredients might be less then healthy" and what they really meant was some ingredients will surely cause cancer and you will die, we "agreed to those stupid terms so live up to them"?
Smirk
Yes Box:
1) We knew if we screwed up and missed a payment, they would raise rates dramatically.
Accepted as terms of use.
2) We knew Box if the national interest rates went up, our credit card rates would go up proportionately.
Accepted as terms of use.
We just didn't know that if we played by the rules, paid our bills on time, and interest rates were at 50 year lows, a desperate bankrupt, insolvent bank, that borrowed money from us, against our will, would extort an unprovoked 10% rise in rates Box.
NO we didn't know that was what the fine print meant.
And no I'm not lazy, I just have too much personal integrity to understand just how corrupt our banking system is.
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| | | 50 | C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:35
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as for not having a credit card, but as an adult, i'm sorry, it's just not possible to not have one, and to "pay cash for things..."
try renting a card without a credit card. or maybe buying a plane ticket. or really, any purchasing anything online.
it ain't that easy without a credit card.
Back in the early '80s my Dad bought plane tickets for a trip. He went to the airport to the ticket agent and said, "I need four tickets to (destination) on (date) returning on (date)." The agent said, "That'll be +/- $2500 (I forget the exact amount). How would you like to pay?" My Dad pulled out a wad of cash and said, "Here you go." She said, "I can't take this." And he said, "Read this part right here on each bill where it says, 'This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.'" She called over a supervisor, they took the money and gave him the tickets. Then the agent said to thte supervisor, "Okay. What do I do with this?" They had no cash drawer or way to secure it, so I guess the supervisor put in his/her pocket and took it to the bank right then.
You can't do that now, though. Dirty terrorists.
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| | | 51 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:35
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you seemed almost as upset as boxman on this issue. Boxman is right about how many people have used credit cards to live above there means and for the most part those people have no right to complain.
I can only speak for myself.
I am more amused with the "emperor has no clothes" then upset.
I have 10 times the savings that I have in credit card debt, it was a convenient business arrangement that they have now changed the terms dramatically of because they are desperate.
Why are you defending a company that is bankrupt, begging for handouts who is now screwing the people that loaned the money to them that kept them from insolvency?
I am not talking about people who are not paying their bills on time.
Why don't you "get" the complete lack of business integrity?
I am obviously not as upset as Box because I don't think I resort to words like "Fvck" on this forum as much as I would like to at times.
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| | | 52 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:40
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nerve change companies...there is nothing that says you have to stay with them when they change there rates, do what tree did.
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| | | 53 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:41
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Or "Hummer" fantasies, for that matter.
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| | | 54 | nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:45
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nerve change companies...there is nothing that says you have to stay with them when they change there rates, do what tree did.
Yeah Boiken I know and that's a fair point. If I lived in the States I would, but doing any kind of credit card business living overseas is difficult at best, if not impossible. I'd rather just pay down the debt.
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| | | 55 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:46
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Or "Hummer" fantasies, for that matter.
LOL..did YOU not just suggest we get off that topic!?!? and that was a legit LOL.
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| | | 56 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:51
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I knew I'd get called on it even as I typed it.
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| | | 57 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:54
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for all the times you've called me on stuff, like i was gonna miss this golden opportunity...no matter how different it might be. :o)
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| | | 58 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:57
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Mith just happens to have a thing for Scarlet Johansson. Now that that image is in his brain, he can't get it out. Box knew how to throw him into a stupor.
When is wife goes out of town he rents Lost in Translation.
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| | | 59 | Perm Dude
ID: 484431415
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:58
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In widescreen.
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| | | 60 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Thu, May 14, 2009, 17:59
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I keep the opening scene cued up on my DVD player for whenever my wife leaves the room.
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| | | 61 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, May 14, 2009, 18:03
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And Box rents Sponge Bob Square Pants.
So he can get that whiff of sodomy with his scarlet.
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| | | 62 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, May 14, 2009, 18:04
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This is the strangest thread I've read in a while.
Did some repo dude steal Box's dog or something?
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| | | 63 | rockafellerskank
ID: 2511552911
Thu, May 14, 2009, 18:13
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RE: #4. Frankly, if I was that bank and you called and said you had no job, I would have said, go ahead and get a new bank (CC) and pay me off. Nothing personal Tree, it just happended to be your post, but, the banks can't charge enough to consumers who are unemployed. I bet it's a better business model for them to lose you (the generic you) as a customer. For everyone who pays off over time, they lose 1000's on those who go to collections.
Re: #35 (sorry Tree, nothing person, it's just that these examples are under your handle. ;)
Hertz debit card policy: cost of rental plus $200 that they will place a "hold" on. hardly "half the cost of the vehicle"
Budget is cost of rental plus 25% or $300 whichever is greater with debit
National: debit cards OK with the purchase of round trip ticket. Seems odd, i guess thay are looking for travelers.
The point is, you can rent a car from several different companies with a debit card. I didn't research all rental companies, but I was 3 for 3 and Hertz is almost everywhere.
Finally, I do think the CC/banks went unchecked too long. Sure, we all "agreed to terms", but they (regulators) need to reign in the terms to some degree. They need to make the banks do a better job of explaining to consumers what the ramifications are of late pays or slow pys or over-limit charges.
No matter what though, there will always be be sub-prime markets. Eventaully bad customers who stiff CC comapies will lose credit and the "fees" won't matter acuse they are in collections,. And gues what, they'll STILL get credit at buy-here pay-here car lots, Rent-A-Center and Payday loan stores. Talk about HIGH FEES. The banks can only dream.
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| | | 64 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Thu, May 14, 2009, 18:35
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Frankly, if I was that bank and you called and said you had no job, I would have said, go ahead and get a new bank (CC) and pay me off. Nothing personal Tree, it just happended to be your post, but, the banks can't charge enough to consumers who are unemployed.
no doubt. they should have called my bluff, because it's tough to get a new card when you're out of work. that being said, they didn't want to lose the perpetual cash from me.
as for the car rental thing, then it's changed in the last year. i don't rent cars as much as i used to, but they definitely did not used to take debit cards.
i stand corrected on that matter.
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| | | 65 | Boxman
ID: 571114225
Fri, May 15, 2009, 06:53
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I have 10 times the savings that I have in credit card debt,
Yeah real convenient. Then why are you b!tching about it like a little pussy baby?
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| | | 66 | Perm Dude
ID: 53428157
Fri, May 15, 2009, 09:05
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Well, here's the main difference between current Democratic and Republican philosophies. Democrats work to do the right thing, even if some lazy and/or stupid people benefit. Meanwhile Republicans attack their perceived political enemies as lazy and/or stupid.
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| | | 67 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Fri, May 15, 2009, 09:33
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Meanwhile Republicans attack their perceived political enemies as lazy and/or stupid.
PD - imho, it's not all Republicans. heck, it's not even *most* Republicans. instead, it's just a VERY vocal few who would rather be the loudest and crudest in the room, instead of being the most intelligent, knowledgeable, or emotionally stable.
i'll be frank, and this isn't meant to be insulting, but Box's behaviour in this thread is just plain weird, and even out of character for him. the majority of his posts are filled with significant cursing, insults, and at least three different mentions of $odomy.
It's at the point where i'm actually wondering if there is something in his personal/home life that is setting him off (being serious here), and if so, well, i hope things improve for you and your family Box.
nonetheless, MITH often talks about letting the lurkers judge for themselves. They can do it here, and if Boxman is the voice of reason for the Right in this thread, well, it's not a difficult judgment to make.
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| | | 68 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Fri, May 15, 2009, 09:34
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Boxman, what the hell is your problem. Are you even TRYING any more or are you just completely off the deep end.
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| | | 69 | Perm Dude
ID: 53428157
Fri, May 15, 2009, 09:39
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tree: Point taken. Most Republicans that I know are aghast that their party (and conservative politics in general) have been taken over by loudmouth louts.
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| | | 70 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Fri, May 15, 2009, 09:58
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You people abuse credit cards, whine that snakes bit you, so yeah it must be the guy pointing out your error and not your initial stupidity.
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| | | 71 | Perm Dude
ID: 53428157
Fri, May 15, 2009, 10:02
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"You people"?
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| | | 72 | Pancho Villa
ID: 544141322
Fri, May 15, 2009, 10:15
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I haven't had a credit card since the early 90s, and I've rented cars for years from (mostly) Avis, Alamo and Enterprise.
The only time I had a problem was with Budget, and the problem was with the insurance, which they wouldn't allow to be billed to my debit card.
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| | | 73 | Mith
ID: 2894309
Fri, May 15, 2009, 10:20
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Zero credit card debt in my household.
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| | | 74 | Tree
ID: 41371322
Fri, May 15, 2009, 11:19
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Most Republicans that I know are aghast that their party (and conservative politics in general) have been taken over by loudmouth louts.
ditto. even someone who had a big role in raising me during my teen years and who is a staunch (and pretty damned wealthy) Republican and a big donor to the party in Texas is shocked at what is going on in the GOP.
You people abuse credit cards, whine that snakes bit you, so yeah it must be the guy pointing out your error and not your initial stupidity.
actually, if you'd read the thread, it's not at all about abusing credit card debt, but rather credit card companies terms and conditions, which area a maze of confusion to the layman.
i've got credit card debt. i accept that. i would like nothing more to pay it off. i made a lot of mistakes with my credit in my 20s and early 30s that i'm still paying off now.
but when i'm doing the right thing, paying on time, doing everything i can to fulfill my responsibility, and then see my rates jacked to the moon because the bank screwed up, YEA, that needs to be investigated...
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| | | 75 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810
Fri, May 15, 2009, 14:31
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Box, I'd agree with you on principle, however the credit card companies are really hip-deep in unethical practices. Raising rates astronomically for the unavoidable and insignificant for example. They are teasing the marks in and setting them up to fail. They are in no sense hoping the deals will work out normally.
This is not about irresponsible people abusing credit anymore.
I am less sympathetic towards people who bought adjustable rate mortgages with balloons they knew they couldn't handle. That's just gambling. They weren't fooled into that situation, unlike the way it is portrayed.
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| | | 76 | Building 7
ID: 471052128
Fri, May 15, 2009, 15:14
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There's a bill in Congress to limit credit card interest rates at 15%. It's not looking like it will pass though. Probably has something to do with the financial industry being the number one donators to Congress. That is also the reason behind the fiancial bailouts of bankrupt banks IMO.
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| | | 77 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, May 15, 2009, 15:42
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Raising rates astronomically for the unavoidable and
insignificant for example.
Baldwin they are raising them at this point simply because they
are desperate. Even to people who have been responsible. They
are insolvent and pulling out all the stops to raise capital.
Yeah real convenient. Then why are you b!tching about it like
a little pussy baby?
What is a pussy baby? Just curious. Never heard the expression.
You people abuse credit cards
Yeah Box. Most people who abuse Credit cards have 840 FICO
scores. Of course as someone who in the past has had credit
card control issues, I guess you can't comprehend there are
some people who use them responsibly.
Without boring everyone with all the details, my cash is in the
USA, I live in Dubai, it's not easy to just move it around.
Sometimes when I've had a project I need substantial cash for I
used my credit card that I have had for 15 years instead of
shuffling thousands of dollars across the border.
The credit card that I NEVER make late payments on.
Then Rather then paying it back, which would involve shuffling it
back across the border, I Save it for the next project. The
convenience is worth it when interest rates are reasonable.
Is that abuse?
Did you just decide to be a prick this week or is this how you
always are?
Where's your A game?
And who are you calling a Retard Dumbass?
8-]
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| | | 78 | Boxman
ID: 104121111
Fri, May 15, 2009, 15:43
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They are teasing the marks in and setting them up to fail.
So do rattlesnakes. Would you let one in your house then to play with your family? Do you feel sorry for people who play with rattlesnakes, get bit, and die? Do you think those people are stupid?
This is not about irresponsible people abusing credit anymore.
Yeah it is because until that problem is solved we'll just keep doing the old credit crisis circle jerk again and again and again. Great times while people pile up the debt, horrible times while they de-lever.
Don't let the rattlesnake in your house in the first place.
See how Tree assumed that you couldn't use a debit card for things? In an hour he was proven wrong. People just assume things and that assumption drives them off a cliff.
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| | | 79 | sarge33rd
ID: 594531514
Fri, May 15, 2009, 16:02
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so, who pissed in Boxmans Cheerio box?
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| | | 80 | Perm Dude
ID: 444471510
Fri, May 15, 2009, 16:18
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It's the righteous anger of the reformed, who have no patience for the pre-reformed.
Stupid retards they all are!
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| | | 81 | sarge33rd
ID: 54141515
Fri, May 15, 2009, 16:24
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Had a CC. 10k limit, 11.9%, never late, never missed a payment, never made a minimum payment. Even after I lost my job when we bought the house, I ket that CC current. Then when the house was forclosed, they cut my limit beow my balance and wanted to charge me an "over limit" fee. Then they adjusted my interest to 24.97%.
I called an complained. I pointed out that I had never been late, never made a minimal payment and that i had "borrowed" that money at 11.99% and would pay it back at 11.99%. So if they owuld be so kind as to restore my limit and rate, I would continue to pay every month but if they refused, at 24.97% plus excess balance fees, they became a luxury I could no longer afford. Nw since the debt is unsecured, the only thing compelling me to make a payment, was my own sense of integrity. What were they going to do?"
That card is in default, and will be for about 4 more years before it simply "vanishes" from my credit bureau. Wasnt necessary, their choice.
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| | | 82 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810
Sat, May 16, 2009, 06:44
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Really, calm down, Boxman.
Yes it's extremely dangerous owning a credit card. Lots of bright people take the chance.
We are pointing out dangers far more uncalled for than the risk of getting overextended.
Just admit to yourself that because you have been wise enuff to avoid them, you are likely unaware of just how criminally unethical credit card companies have become of late.
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| | | 83 | tree, on the treo
ID: 55220277
Sat, May 16, 2009, 10:55
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wow..
::blinks:: ::rubs eyes:: ::blinks again::
I guess we can no longer accuse baldwin of not keeping some of his minion in line.
kudos to you here baldwin, for seeing the bigger picture.
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| | | 84 | Perm Dude
ID: 174121611
Sat, May 16, 2009, 12:14
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Can't pass up a chance to applaud a good post by Baldwin. Nice job.
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| | | 86 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Mon, May 18, 2009, 02:54
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Proviso, note that #82 and #83 do not constitute bipartisanship.
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| | | 90 | Seattle Zen
ID: 1410391215
Thu, Jan 14, 2010, 18:23
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From the link in post 89 -
One problem with hitting up sick people, single mothers, college kids who didn’t plan well and the cash-constrained poor with fees and traps is that they’re poor. Hitting up people with a lifetime of savings suffering from dementia is some real, serious money we can tap as a revenue source. Indeed someone who forgets what they were doing between reading “Bullshit Surcharge: $40″ on their statement and calling the customer support number to complain is our ideal customer – it’s the person who will be most profitable to us going forward.
Hilarious. Anyone want to defend this line of thought?
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| | | 91 | sarge33rd
ID: 110421417
Thu, Jan 14, 2010, 18:42
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Simple....unbridled, unregulated, free market at work. Take your money and make it their money....without benefit of conscience of thought.
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| | | 92 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Thu, Jan 14, 2010, 18:45
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I'll attempt to speak for all the Social Darwinists, Libertarian-Reducto-Ad-Absurdumites and other assorted lizards of all stripes:
"If they don't know they've been robbed, no harm done!"
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| | | 93 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Feb 20, 2010, 15:07
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The Fed rolls out a web site to inform consumers about credit cards. And (surprise!) it isn't bad.
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