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| Posted by: Tree
- [41371322] Tue, May 26, 2009, 09:49
AP sources: Obama picks Sotomayor for high court |
| | | 1 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Tue, May 26, 2009, 09:53
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Get ready for a lot of barking from the Right. Too bad they've been muzzled. Sotomayor will pass easily.
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| | | 2 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, May 26, 2009, 10:21
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i'm sure that despite the fact she worked for George the Greater, the Right will chirp about something. and i fully expect someone from the hate-crowd (Limbaugh, Coulter, etc) to make some sort of offensive remark about her heritage and spin it into some sort of comment about immigration.
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| | | 3 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, May 26, 2009, 10:24
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Why do the nominees always seem to come from harvard or yale law school?
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| | | 4 | Seattle Zen
ID: 24462610 Tue, May 26, 2009, 12:01
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When you ask a University of Mississippi School of Law grad if they would be interested in being appointed to the Federal bench, they say they are happy with their job at Sonic and are not interested.
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| | | 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, May 26, 2009, 12:31
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The Right already shot its wad--they decided to start slamming Obama about a week ago for advocating what Robert Bork said: That a judge needs to have and employ empathy on the bench.
It is pretty clear that the GOP, on the national level, are a bunch of harpies. Expect a lot of whining and crying from them for any sort of thing, real and imagined.
She'll pass easily, in the end.
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| | | 6 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Tue, May 26, 2009, 13:27
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Would you prefer someone from a lesser law school?
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| | | 7 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 13:30
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Naturally In a forum at the Duke University School of Law in 2005, Sonia Sotomayor said, "Court of appeals is where policy is made. And I know – and I know this is on tape and I should never say that because we don't make law, I know. OK, I know. I'm not promoting it, and I'm not advocating it, I'm – you know. OK. Having said that, the court of appeals is where, before the Supreme Court makes the final decision, the law is percolating – its interpretation, its application." Why a judge who has been overturned more than 80% of the time by the higher courts, sometimes unanimously, and who obviously has no respect for the constitution, should be on the high court is beyond me.
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| | | 8 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, May 26, 2009, 13:54
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What part of this is unclear:
"I'm not promoting it, and I'm not advocating it"
Pretty clear to me.
You complain about "liberal" judges "making law" and then try to take to task a "liberal" judge who makes your point for you.
Why a judge who has been overturned more than 80% of the time by the higher courts
This is absolutely untrue. And is Exhibit 500 in the ongoing case of "Baldwin vs Truth." You seem to have absolutely no qualms about passing along lies. Please stop referring to yourself as "Christian."
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| | | 9 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Tue, May 26, 2009, 13:55
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#7 ...Sotomayor said, "Court of appeals is where policy is made...
"She's not wrong," said Jeffrey Segal, a professor of law at Stony Brook University. "Of course they make policy... You can, on one hand, say Congress makes the law and the court interprets it. But on the other hand the law is not always clear. And in clarifying those laws, the courts make policy."
As Segal noted, one of the most recent cases heard by the Supreme Court -- itself a court of appeals -- involves the strip search of a 13-year-old who school officials believed was carrying ibuprofen. "There is no clear knowing statement whether officials can be sued for that sort of behavior," he noted. "So when justices come up with a decision on that, they would be making policy."
Eric Freedman, a law professor at Hofstra University, was equally dismissive of this emerging conservative talking point. "She was saying something which is the absolute judicial equivalent of saying the sun rises each morning. It is not a controversial proposition at all that the overwhelming quantity of law making work in the federal system is done by the court of appeals... It is thoroughly uncontroversial to anyone other than a determined demagogue."
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| | | 10 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, May 26, 2009, 14:56
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When you ask a University of Mississippi School of Law grad if they would be interested in being appointed to the Federal bench, they say they are happy with their job at Sonic and are not interested.
I know people who could say the same thing from Harvard law.
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| | | 11 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:27
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Rush made the statement off the cuff. As far as I can tell after looking deeper, it looks like he was thinking of the fact that she was overturned 3 of the 4 times her cases were reviewed.
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| | | 12 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:28
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And she's got an especially egregious one going up for review by the SCOTUS about the same time as the appointment battle.
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| | | 13 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:54
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I know people who could say the same thing from Harvard law.
Do you really?
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| | | 14 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:56
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who'a Rush? some radio schlub, or the leader of the republican party? sounds to me like, to you, he's your leader.
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| | | 15 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, May 26, 2009, 16:02
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He's an entertainer. Certainly not a leader or valid source of information.
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| | | 16 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, May 26, 2009, 16:29
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I know people who could say the same thing from Harvard law.
Do you really?
Not sonic but not practicing law either...all a harvard law student usually has is a good lsat score. By continually picking people from the same schools only props up a flawed belief that those universities are vastly superior to others and that some out they are teaching you something that other schools are not. If Obama wanted to step out and make statement he should have chosen a female latino who went to UCLA or UT law.
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| | | 17 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Tue, May 26, 2009, 16:46
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Presidents pick the best candidates for the job. There are simply more strong candidates from Harvard and Yale than there are Kennesaw State and Georgia Southern. Law schools are not particularly hard to get into, relative to medicine and some other disciplines, because there are so many of them. It is natural that the most talented would attend the schools with the greatest resources, strongest alumni networks and best faculty. Harvard and Yale (and other top schools) have these and thus attract more top students and put out more quality lawyers and judges than lesser schools do. Which is not to say other schools do not produce outstanding lawyers and judges, but that they produce fewer than the top schools do.
But, some of this is politics. The educational background of someone who went to Princeton and then Harvard Law will not come under scrutiny, unlike, say, someone who went to Southern Methodist University.
Also, some of this may just be pure familiarity. Obama, Bush, Clinton, and older Bush all attended Harvard and/or Yale for undergraduate or graduate work.
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| | | 18 | Seattle Zen
ID: 24462610 Tue, May 26, 2009, 18:04
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because there are so many of them.
Really? There are only 188 fully accredited law schools in the US.
There are 130 MD-granting med schools in the US accredited by the AAMC, with another twelve in the pipeline. There are also thirty or so Med schools that grant Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degrees with a handful more on the way.
Not that big of a difference. Maybe you meant MBA programs. Who knows how many of those are out there.
boikin: By continually picking people from the same schools only props up a flawed belief that those universities are vastly superior to others and that some out they are teaching you something that other schools are not.
These judges are not being picked for where they went to law school or what they learned, honestly, you don't really learn much in law school. It is based on what they have accomplished since they graduated. And, yes, Yale & Harvard grads have many more opportunities than most law school grads. It's how the game works.
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| | | 19 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 21:17
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These judges are not being picked for where they went to law school - SZ
You can say that again.
She was picked because she was:
A) a woman
B) an hispanic
C) willing to ignore and over-rule constitutional law to benefit favored classes of people.
Her saving grace is that she is such a legal lightweight that she is likely to have little influence except as a tie breaker.
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| | | 20 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, May 26, 2009, 23:04
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Read her opinions, have you? Which ones, in particular?
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| | | 21 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, May 26, 2009, 23:40
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as the republicans have shown, they just want to fight. they're like that bully who had his ass thoroughly kicked, and still keeps coming back for more.
even internally, they're conflicted...which, of course, is nothing new.
...some conservatives privately concede that Obama’s selection of Sotomayor, whose judicial ruling rarely have touched on divisive social issues, will make it harder to galvanize the grass roots and put pressure on the Senate.
“There was a real sense the president would come out with a [Supreme Court Chief Justice] John Roberts clone, but on the left,” said one leading conservative.
When Sotomayor’s name was announced, “the reaction was, ‘Gee, this was identity politics all along’,” he added.
Obama’s list of finalists did have other candidates, including Judge Diane Wood of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit in Chicago, with more defining records on the sort of social issues that could transformed into political attacks.
But Sotomayor’s history suggests the very sort of judicial restraint that conservatives clamor for in a nominee.
Whatever her personal ideology, she ruled against an abortion-rights group challenging Bush’s policy of banning overseas groups that take federal funds from conducting abortions. In another case, she ruled in favor of abortion protesters.
“She applied the law even-handedly and come out with the right decision,” said Bruce Hausknecht, a judicial analyst for Focus on the Family Action, a large and influential voice on conservative social issues.
Sotomayor’s rulings on religious liberty issues also have pleased the conservative community.
i like this part... The National Right to Life Committee issued a statement Tuesday that acknowledged her record “so far sheds little light on her views” regarding abortion issues.
But, it adds, “pro-life concerns are reinforced by the knowledge that Judge Sotomayor has been nominated to the Supreme Court by a president who himself criticized the Supreme Court majority for upholding the ban on partial-birth abortion.”
so, um, they'll be against anyone obama selects...gee, that's gonna get you far.
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| | | 22 | Seattle Zen
ID: 48459270 Wed, May 27, 2009, 02:04
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Her saving grace is that she is such a legal lightweight that she is likely to have little influence except as a tie breaker.
No. Baldwin, you are obviously parroting some one else. Unfortunately for you, they are making you look foolish.
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| | | 23 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 06:25
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When you aren't arguing from the constitution you are basically arguing emotionalism over the rule of law, which carries little weight with those with real SCOTUS qualifications.
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| | | 24 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Wed, May 27, 2009, 09:02
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She hasn't argued from the Constitution? In which case?
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| | | 25 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Wed, May 27, 2009, 09:41
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Also, some of this may just be pure familiarity. Obama, Bush, Clinton, and older Bush all attended Harvard and/or Yale for undergraduate or graduate work.
And, yes, Yale & Harvard grads have many more opportunities than most law school grads. It's how the game works.
Do you not see anything wrong with this? We complain about higher education system in the US then we sit back and watch our leaders support its weaknesses. We hear talk about change and all we get is the same.
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| | | 26 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Wed, May 27, 2009, 09:50
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boikin, if you want to complain about Harvard and Yale alumni, you should either prove that Harvard and Yale alumni are no more talented than alumni from other schools or prove that THIS Yale alumna is no more talented than an alumnus/alumna from another school.
And does anyone complain about the quality of education at Harvard and Yale? Sure, some do, but not anyone with a legitimate argument.
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| | | 27 | Pancho Villa
ID: 344152512 Wed, May 27, 2009, 10:17
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C) willing to ignore and over-rule constitutional law to benefit favored classes of people.
This statement ignores that many who framed the Constitution were, themselves, favored classes of people and slave owners.
Additionally, which cases has she ignored and over-ruled constitutional law to benefit favored classes of people?
When you don't have specifics to back up your rhetoric, you are basically arguing emotionalism , which carries little weight in confirmation hearings(unless you're Bork or Thomas).
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| | | 28 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Wed, May 27, 2009, 11:45
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boikin, if you want to complain about Harvard and Yale alumni, you should either prove that Harvard and Yale alumni are no more talented than alumni from other schools or prove that THIS Yale alumna is no more talented than an alumnus/alumna from another school.
I am not complaining about the graduates i am complaining about a system that overly rewards there graduates.
As for proof how about Yale and Harvard graduate George W Bush....
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| | | 29 | Building 7
ID: 471052128 Wed, May 27, 2009, 12:04
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Most of the financial wizards that got us in the current crisis are from Ivy league schools. They've done a horrible job. Not sure about lawyers.
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| | | 30 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, May 27, 2009, 12:33
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George Will, apparently done with mangling climate theory, weighs in on Sotomayor, saying she actually hurt baseball.
I've gotta be blunt here: Will is being an idiot with that opinion, especially in the way he tries to lay it out. Sotomayor (in about the only judicial decision anyone really knows about), told major league baseball owners that they can't change labor rules unilaterally after locking out the players--that labor rules in a unionized industry are subject to negotiation with the union.
Will's anti-union bias clearly has overwhelmed the facts of that case in his mind, in an area in which he is a self-proclaimed "expert."
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| | | 31 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Wed, May 27, 2009, 13:42
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Agreed, Will's position on this is not only arrogant, but focuses on outcomes rather than addressing any sort of underlying legal reasoning. And what's worse, his contention that baseball was not actually better off but worse off for having returned to play in 1995 is not supported by anyone who follows the game. I love his comment at the end, too. The terms "legislating from the bench" and "judicial activism" are just codewords for "decision I don't agree with." "Judicial activism" accusations are never followed by a well-reasoned refutation of the law used to arrive said decision.
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| | | 32 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 14:41
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She hasn't argued from the Constitution? In which case? - Razor
In Ricci v. DeStefano she argued, 'you're white so you do not qualify for benefit of law'.
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| | | 33 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, May 27, 2009, 15:08
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Is that what she said? Or what your wacky puppetmasters said for you?
You don't realize how foolish you sound, particularly when you don't read the decisions upon which you opine.
Even Hugh Hewitt thinks she's a good pick.
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| | | 34 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, May 27, 2009, 15:40
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In Ricci v. DeStefano she argued, 'you're white so you do not qualify for benefit of law'.
actually, she did no such thing. rather, she, and the other two second circuit judges, said nothing, because they felt they had nothing to say beyond the decision already rendered.
feeling they had nothing to add, they issued a "Per Curiam" opinion (which, by the way, was the same opinion ultimately rendered in Bush v. Gore.)
i'm certainly no expert on this stuff, but i do know how to do my own research, instead of vomiting up what i hear on the radio.
Baldwin - here's a pretty simple write up of the whole enchilada involving the case in which you're mis-speaking.
i encourage you to read it, and to educate yourself. and, really, it's pretty easy to follow. i mean, you think i'm a complete idiot, and i'm able to follow along if i read it out loud and mouth it phonetically.
you might be able to as well.
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| | | 35 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 18:09
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“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” - Chief Justice Roberts
New Haven Conneticut acted rightly in discriminating against whites who score well on tests. - Sotomayor ruling
I don't think he'll be influenced by her 'expert legal opinion'. Not a bit.
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| | | 36 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, May 27, 2009, 18:23
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actually, no. again, you didn't read, or understand.
they had nothing to add. they let it stand pat, without a decision.
then again, you're the king of making stuff up, so by all means, continue.
did you even read the links i provided?
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| | | 37 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, May 27, 2009, 18:53
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I don't think that Baldwin even knows what the Appeals court is for.
But reality hasn't been his strong point for some time.
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| | | 38 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 19:20
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Then there is her association with La Raza.
That might as well be renamed Mexican KKK. It's openly in your face racist.
Then there is her stance towards impartiality.“While recognizing the potential effect of individual experiences on perception, Judge Cedarbaum nevertheless believes that judges must transcend their personal sympathies and prejudices and aspire to achieve a greater degree of fairness and integrity based on the reason of law,” Sotomayor said.
“Although I agree with and attempt to work toward Judge Cedarbaum's aspiration, I wonder whether achieving that goal is possible in all or even in most cases. And I wonder whether by ignoring our differences as women or men of color we do a disservice both to the law and society.” That's just great. She thinks she and all judges are partial most of the time. And further she wonders if in her case that isn't a good thing. She may be doing a service to the country and the law by being biased.
Well thank you ever so freaking much judge sotomayor with no caps.
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| | | 39 | Seattle Zen
ID: 304282711 Wed, May 27, 2009, 19:27
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The more Baldwin hates her, the more I like her.
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| | | 40 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 19:51
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Well heck, if yer partial enuff maybe you can even get on the short list for the next opening. As long as their counting 'empathy' for people with losing legal arguements so highly, why not?
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| | | 41 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Wed, May 27, 2009, 19:58
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I'm confused. Was she supposed to override the legal existing law in order to overrule the lower court that ruled according to that law?
Wouldn't that be judicial activism?
Or is that okay when the activism agrees with one's point of view?
Headspinning.
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| | | 42 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 20:09
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I was not aware that the constitution allowed New Haven to discriminate according to race.
Liberals favoring racial discimination always make my head spin.
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| | | 43 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, May 27, 2009, 20:38
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1. obviously, you didn't read the link i provided. i guess there's no need for you to answer the question now, since your "knowledge" of the case in question makes it obvious you didn't read the link, nor have you read anything on it other than what is filtered through the drill hole in your brain.
2. the case where you're screaming "racism! save the poor downtrodden white man" is probably the antithesis of racism. THE DECISION MADE BY THE INITIAL JUDGE WAS THAT THERE WAS NO RACISM, BECAUSE THE TEST RESULTS WERE DISCARDED BEFORE ANYONE WAS PROMOTED.
3. as for your criticism of the NCLR, it comes as no surprise, because it's just another in your endless language speaking out against people with brown skin.
but, rest comfortably in knowing you're not alone in your criticism of the the NCLR. The American Patrol, labeled a hate group by the SPLC, is also critical of the NCLR.
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| | | 44 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 20:44
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Discarding the test results was the racist act, you moron.
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| | | 45 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, May 27, 2009, 20:48
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If the test wasn't racially biased, discarding them could not have been a racist act.
Really, Baldwin: Read the decision before you make yourself look even more foolish. Allowing others to think for you, then posting talking points, is just silly.
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| | | 46 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 21:08
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Since a lot of minds around here can't process reverse discrimination let's flip it around.
Imagine a racist school system tested students for admission. Black students scored very well and the racist school system, not liking that outcome, thru out those test results and came up with a new manner of admissions that produced racist results more to their liking.
Now imagine that when those black students took that school system to court and the case wound it's way thru the appeal process, a racist judge reasoned, 'I don't want those black children to benefit from their good test results either so I won't allow their appeal to be heard'.
Now you cannot use the fact that the test results were thrown out before the admissions were made, to absolve either the school system, or the judge of racism.
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| | | 47 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, May 27, 2009, 22:13
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Discarding the test results was the racist act, you moron.
your posts and your responses show more who the moron is here than your silly, childish, and very unchristian-like insults.
not only are you not even bright enough to read the decision, you're not even bright enough to read the synopsis of the case so easily understood by a "moron".
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| | | 48 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Wed, May 27, 2009, 22:41
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1) You've never read a link I provided in your life.
2) You've destroyed what was once a pretty good board and I won't let anyone overlook it.
3) I've read the case and the liberal talking points you provided.
4) You are nothing but a zero contributing distraction, degrading everything you touch.
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| | | 49 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, May 27, 2009, 22:56
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you're wrong on all points.
1. completely untrue. how else would i be able to be critical of your various WND links, your Terri Schiavo defenders of the blogosphere, the multitude of links when law enforcement moved on that religious group in texas, or, of course, the blogs that say claim the closing of car dealerships is a conspiracy to keep the democrats in power.
2. trust me baldwin, i bet if you took a poll, you and boxman are much more guilty of destroying "what was once a pretty good board" than i am. i've fallen for your trolling plenty of times, but if you wanna go back and count, the name calling was much more prevalent from you, and usually the initial volley.
3. nice way to avoid the point. you didn't read the links i provided. and now you've read the case, suddenly. if you'd read them, you woulda commented on them, and not the conservative criticism that seems to be all you read, or listen to.
4. so you keep saying. i feel pretty comfortable in saying that what i've posted here lately - heck, you can start with this thread - is much more meritorious than what you've posted.
btw, congratulations on another insult of me. you do that a lot. kinda makes it look like you don't really have much of anything with weight to say.
oh, and it really makes your haughty pious self look like more and more of a fraud.
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| | | 50 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, May 27, 2009, 23:45
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#46 should be titled: "Here's Some Speculative What If's."
I can imagine a lot. Very little would be as off-point as your alternative universe word painting.
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| | | 51 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, May 28, 2009, 00:00
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But for all I know, you are the life of the NY pro wrestling scene. Go somewhere where you are useful.
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| | | 52 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, May 28, 2009, 00:06
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PD
It is a point for point, perfect analogy.
The wrong race was seeking admission, they passed the test, the administration didn't like the result, the administration discarded the test results and started over until they could get the rascist result they wanted, the racist judge concured and refused to hear the case.
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| | | 53 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, May 28, 2009, 00:10
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It wasn't even close. And until you actually read the ruling all this is speculation on your part.
Really--you're a smart guy who is letting other people do your thinking for you. Stop that. I can respect someone who reads the original source and comes to a thoughtful, but different, view of it. But you aren't doing that at all. You refuse to. In fact, you seem somewhat proud of avoiding the original writing of people you want to disagree with.
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| | | 55 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, May 28, 2009, 00:23
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But for all I know, you are the life of the NY pro wrestling scene. Go somewhere where you are useful.
not only is there not really a pro wrestling scene in new york, um, were you trying to insult me somehow?
or maybe some of the wrestlers? i'd love to see you in a debate with guys like Larry Sweeney (graduate of Oberlin College)

or the Necro Butcher (who once told me one of his proudest moments was wearing a Dennis Kucinich shirt into the wrestling ring on Pay Per View) , who would both make you look like a such a total fool, you'd never show your face in public again.
i'll say it again - when all you do is sit there and try to insult me, it shows anyone reading here that you're not only a fraud, but you really don't have anything to contribute to the issue.
which, i suppose, is the real you.
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| | | 56 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, May 28, 2009, 03:16
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PD, it is you who has devolved into a guy who is assuming without basis at every step.
I read the case a long time ago. Title VII is a racist abomination that needs to be stricken down as fostering reverse discrimination and prolonging racial discord till armageddon.
Putting in a friend of that racist methodology is not going to help matters. Unless you think prolonging racial discord is beneficial to you. Which of course liberals do. And then they complain about republicans using wedge issues. It is to laff.
If I put together in one post all the lame tactics devoid of all substance that have been slung at me today I might never throw another pearl before these swine.
And the swine go wild.
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| | | 57 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, May 28, 2009, 04:34
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Title VII is a racist abomination that needs to be stricken down as fostering reverse discrimination and prolonging racial discord till armageddon
Uh, right. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination, should be stricken down. Apparently because it violates itself--is that your point? Did it ever occur to you that without Title VII those white firefighters wouldn't have a case at all?
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| | | 58 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, May 28, 2009, 09:07
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I read the case a long time ago.
how long ago? i mean, the Court of Appeals Decision that Sotomayor was part of rendered their opinion less than a year ago.
the original decision itself is barely 2 1/2 years ago.
i feel like you're missing the point of the case, or at least the original decision rendered.
Rick Hayber, posting on the Connecticut Employee Rights blog (and based on evidence here, you're a firm believer in blogs being the end all, be all), said I do not believe that New Haven refused to promote Mr. Ricci because he is white. I believe that it simply concluded that the test must have been biased. If true, this is simply not discrimination.
the fact of the matter is that 20 people from one ethnic group received promotion, while zero from another. while there MAY not be anything wrong with the test, there quite possibly is, and New Haven was covering its ass by tossing the results out before they could be applied to those who took the test.
everything you say these days is based on either the words of others, or, filled with the emotionalism of which you accuse others of.
from telling me that i destroyed this board, degrade everything i touch and calling me a moron, to telling PD he has devolved to basically calling Sotomayor a racist to saying Title VII is a racist abomination that needs to be stricken down as fostering reverse discrimination and prolonging racial discord till armageddon shows that you are acting solely on emotionalism, and not at all on reason, logic, and fact. look at your choice of language, for pete's sake. that's indication enough.
come on - in all seriousness, please try.
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| | | 59 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, May 28, 2009, 09:29
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the fact of the matter is that 20 people from one ethnic group received promotion, while zero from another. while there MAY not be anything wrong with the test, there quite possibly is, and New Haven was covering its ass by tossing the results out before they could be applied to those who took the test.
I dont feel like reading through the whole thread but how many non-whites took the test and did not get promoted?
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| | | 60 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Thu, May 28, 2009, 09:42
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From Wikipedia:
At the center of the case is New Haven's 2003 promotion exams to select firefighters for 15 open captain and lieutenant positions within the fire department. One hundred eighteen candidates took the tests, 27 of them black.[2] After the tests were scored, no black candidates scored high enough to qualify for consideration for the promotions. In response, the city decided not to promote anyone, citing the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
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| | | 61 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, May 28, 2009, 10:09
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Even more to the point...
"Title VII is a racist abomination that needs to be stricken down as fostering reverse discrimination and prolonging racial discord till armageddon"
Um, wouldn't that be the very definition of judicial activism on the appeals court level, which we've been told for a while now is roughly the most heinous of sins for Supreme Court nominations?
Someone jump in here, does the appeals court have the right to rule specifically on the constitutionality of the law?
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| | | 62 | Pancho Villa
ID: 56437287 Thu, May 28, 2009, 10:55
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I was not aware that the constitution allowed New Haven to discriminate according to race.
Since you seem bent on presenting yourself as an expert on constitutional law, please direct us to the writings in the constitution that explicitly deal with race and discrimination.
It's one thing to disagree with quotas and affirmative action policies, and another to blatantly claim that the constitution backs your position.
Of course, that's exactly what the Supreme Court decided in the Dred Scott decision.
The decision of the court was read in March of 1857. Chief Justice Roger B. Taney -- a staunch supporter of slavery -- wrote the "majority opinion" for the court. It stated that because Scott was black, he was not a citizen and therefore had no right to sue. The decision also declared the Missouri Compromise of 1820, legislation which restricted slavery in certain territories, unconstitutional.
Perhaps you think the Civil Rights Ac of 1964 to be unconstitutional as well.
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| | | 63 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Thu, May 28, 2009, 11:55
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Someone jump in here, does the appeals court have the right to rule specifically on the constitutionality of the law?
Yes. They do.
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| | | 64 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, May 28, 2009, 12:00
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Grazie, MBJ.
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| | | 65 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Thu, May 28, 2009, 12:05
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I think I'll like Sotomayor a little more than Souter. Slightly less mind-numbingly boring and long-winded and more user-friendly. I'd say she has about a 20% chance of being a big dissapointment to the Left (in the way that Souter or Stevens were to Republicans) on issues in criminal law.
Something like a Lefty Clarence Thomas is my guess. Not bad.
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| | | 66 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, May 28, 2009, 12:23
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Interesting, MBJ. I don't know that she'll be as solidly pro-left as Thomas is on the Right--I certainly don't think she's the awful racist socialist, whatever that some of the base on the right are saying she is through their pre-printed protest forms.
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| | | 67 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, May 28, 2009, 14:17
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didn't she pull the plug on Schiavo?
MBJ - thanks for a voice of reason. miss your posts around here, and considering we had quite the disharmonious relationship on here several years back, that seems funny to me.
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| | | 68 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Fri, May 29, 2009, 17:59
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MBJ
She feels that states do not have to obey the Second Amendment.“It is settled law, however, that the Second Amendment applies only to limitations the federal government seeks to impose on this right,” said the opinion. Quoting Presser, the court said, “it is a limitation only upon the power of Congress and the national government, and not upon that of the state.” You actually think that kind of mind belongs anywhere near the Supreme Court?
She explicitly rejected applying the Fourteenth Amendment incorporation doctrine.
The insanely liberal California Ninth Circus even realized the states couldn't thumb their noses at fundamental rights, and that the Fourteenth Amendment prohibited her interpretation.
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| | | 69 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Fri, May 29, 2009, 18:38
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Uh, you know that the case in question (Maloney v. Rice) is about numchucks, right? Is that why you have no link?
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| | | 70 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Fri, May 29, 2009, 18:45
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For those who prefer their data non pre-digested:
Maloney's Home Page
As noted on that page:
On January 28, 2009, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit affirmed the decision of the court below, finding that U.S. Supreme Court precedent from 1886 (Presser v. Illinois) was still good law, and that the Second Amendment does not apply to the states. The Second Circuit also found that New York has a "rational basis" for prohibiting the possession of nunchaku in general, but did not address my argument that the state has no rational basis for prohibiting possession of nunchaku for martial arts practice in one's home. For a pdf copy of the decision, click here or on the link below.
Again, Baldwin takes Sotomayor to task for not being an activist from the bench and overturning laws which she disagrees with.
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| | | 71 | bibA
ID: 194112516 Fri, May 29, 2009, 19:09
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Well maybe if Baldwin feels it should be okay for everyone to carry firearms, why not let them have the right to other weapons, such as nunchucks.
After all, whenever someone is attacked with nunchucks at a school or a mall, the victim would be able to defend themselves if they also had nunchucks.
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| | | 72 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Fri, May 29, 2009, 19:40
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Personally, I demand the right to carry my own personal thermonuclear weaponry and/or laser gun.
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| | | 73 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Fri, May 29, 2009, 20:22
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It might be kinda sweet to have numchuck battles instead of drive-by shootings in our inner cities.
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| | | 74 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Sat, May 30, 2009, 03:16
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i wanna be able to carry my own potato gun everywhere...
also, chinese throwing stars, jousting lances, and Rabbit "personal massagers" that have been re-jiggered for combat purposes.
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| | | 75 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Sun, May 31, 2009, 13:53
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GOP senator: Stop calling Sotomayor a 'racist'
Sen. Jeff Sessions said Sunday that he would prefer fellow Republicans stop attacking Sotomayor over remarks about her background as a daughter of Puerto Rican parents. Sotomayor in 2001 said her experiences affected her decisions on the bench.
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| | | 77 | Farn Leader
ID: 451044109 Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 17:00
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The facts just don't support his pre-printed objections.
Since when were facts his objective when posting?
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| | | 78 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jun 03, 2009, 13:53
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Baldwin's been busy, writing for the Council of Conservative Citizens:
HT: Andrew Sullivan
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| | | 79 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 07:00
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If they should even say that the earth is round, it would remain round, PD.
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| | | 80 | Boxman
ID: 571114225 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 07:16
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I think Obama can do better.
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| | | 81 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 10:24
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She's a safe pick, IMO. Shouldn't make too many waves, and her record of consistently applying precedent is important.
Obama will get another chance or two--the liberal wing on the court is getting about ready to leave en-masse.
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| | | 82 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 10:28
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She's a safe pick, IMO
She's an appeasement pick nothing more. Meant to placate a voting block.
The latina woman / white male quote offends me and I wish he'd pick another person.
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| | | 83 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 10:32
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Nonsense. Obama doesn't need to placate anyone.
Your offense is misplaced.
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| | | 84 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 10:45
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What gives you the ability to dictate what offends me?
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| | | 85 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:26
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Nonsense. Obama doesn't need to placate anyone.
Your offense is misplaced.
Probably true but statistically speaking she is an anomaly and there for probably chosen on bases that is not her qualifications.
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| | | 86 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:36
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your inability to think on your own?
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| | | 87 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:36
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I really don't know what you mean by "statistically speaking." Because she is Hispanic?
I think in order to determine that she was not chosen based upon the stated reasons (her qualifications) you would need to demonstrate that she's unqualified. The more I dig into her opinions (and others) the more this boogieman of "identity politics" or "white hatred" blows away like so much smoke.
Was she picked for political reasons? Partly--sure. All SCOTUS picks are. But to reduce it to a purely political pick is, at best, conservatives trying desperately to change the goalposts now that their original arguments against her have been found to be bogus.
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| | | 88 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:42
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It is possible for Obama to find someone qualified who has not made racist remarks and he should do so.
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| | | 89 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:47
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here we go again.
on hindsight, we could have put pretty solid odds on people from the far right making all sorts of accusations based on race coming from a great deal of what Obama does.
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| | | 90 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:47
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Soromayor has not made any racist remarks that have come to light thus far.
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| | | 91 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 11:55
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I think in order to determine that she was not chosen based upon the stated reasons (her qualifications) you would need to demonstrate that she's unqualified.
actually i would not(i do think she is)...All i have to do is demonstrate that she is minority in pool of equally qualified group of applicants. i think clearly there are many equally qualified applicants out there.
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| | | 92 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:11
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i think clearly there are many equally qualified applicants out there......
who have not made racist remarks. (If I might add.)
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| | | 93 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:13
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i think clearly there are many equally qualified applicants out there......
who have not made racist remarks. (If I might add.)
They would have to not ahave made any, since Sotomayor hasn't made any, either.
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| | | 94 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:15
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I am white and I felt what she was a racist remark.
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| | | 95 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:17
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Thats because youre an idiot for who the concept of context is too far over your head to understand.
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| | | 96 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:20
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Boxman why is it necessary in post 94 for you to mention that you are white?
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| | | 97 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:39
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Guess I shouldn't expect an answer after calling him an idiot, so I'll just point out the ignorance/hypocrisy myself.
The only reason that Boxman would include that he is a white person (he could have said white male, since that was what Sotomayor referred to in the now infamous quote) in post 94 is that as such he must feel he is particularly qualified to recognize anti-white racism when he sees it.
Anyone who is aware of the context of Sotomayor's statement knows that she was discussion cases of anti-minority discrimination. How is it that Boxman can cite his ethnicity to support his claimed recognition of anti-white racism (or racits remarks) but Sotomayor cannot suggest that "a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion [on the subject of discrimination against minorities] than a white male who hasn't lived that life."
\'kän-tekst\
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| | | 98 | Seattle Zen
ID: 7553411 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 12:53
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Ugh, watching you tear apart Boxman is like watching a dump truck run over a toy poodle. I wonder, MITH, why does this poodle keep coming back? It's as stupid as it is small.
Don't feed the poodle.
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| | | 99 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:01
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You still keep limpily poking in the dark hoping to find a wet spot don't you Zen? Like a 90 year old man who snuck into the women's ward at the nursing home. Almost as pathetic as that joke Hasselbeck, Seattle QB loser, is especially when he said "We want the ball and we're going to score."
Please stick to what you do best. Drugs. Doing drugs and then most likely babysitting your young child even though you'd fail a drug test. Such a qualified parent you are.
Mith: As a white person what she said offended me.
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| | | 100 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:05
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Mith: As a white person what she said offended me.
Duh. So as a white person, you think you're more sensitive to racism (be it in the form of comments or actions) made about white people.
This is ping pong agaist a double amputee.
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| | | 101 | Seattle Zen
ID: 7553411 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:09
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Why do you bother posting here? No one, outside of Baldy, thinks you contribute anything of worth. You are full of piss and vinegar, stupid as rock, and you can't even come up with a decent put down. Matt Hasselbeck? Pathetic.
Why don't you go meet Baldwin at Applebees in some god awful IL backwater and point your chubby fingers at all of the people who aren't like you, comparing them to some professional athlete you don't like, and then laughing out loud with your mouth full of Freedom Fries? We all would be much happier.
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| | | 102 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:09
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When someone makes disparaging remarks about my race I have a right to be offended.
Just for the record, you insulted first:
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| | | 103 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:14
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LOL, brillaince on par with your recent contributions.
Yeah, you're a real asset to this forum.
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| | | 104 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:15
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you can't even come up with a decent put down. Matt Hasselbeck? Pathetic.
At least you don't deny the drug charges especially related to the time with your kid. Or does wifey (assuming you're married and someone with a v@gina would soil her womb with your bong resin encrusted penis) even let you near your offspring? I could see why she wouldn't.
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| | | 105 | Boxman
ID: 424542210 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:16
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Yeah, you're a real asset to this forum.
Thank you.
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| | | 106 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:22
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Don't let the bastids get to you, Box.
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| | | 107 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:24
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When someone makes disparaging remarks about my race I have a right to be offended.
This is genuinely funny. This is practically the definition of contrived anger. No one has the right to be offended.
I've got some quotes from some Irish friends of mine, talking about how great it is to be from Ireland. If I post them, would you be offended because you're not Irish?
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| | | 108 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:25
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A liberal upset about contrived anger.
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| | | 109 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:33
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Of the three facts in your post, you were correct on none of them.
You're the Chris Davis of this forum.
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| | | 110 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:41
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Gosh, we wouldn't want to hurt Boxman's feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings.
(was that the proper number of e's)?
That's the problem with radical conservatives these days, they let their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings rule their brain.
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| | | 111 | Seattle Zen
ID: 7553411 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 13:52
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Don't feed the poodle.
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| | | 112 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 16:09
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your bong resin encrusted penis
SZ - please don't tell me that he's referring to the same bong i used when i visited you several years back. ew. :o)
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| | | 113 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 18:18
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Slowly back away from the computer, Boxman. You've been dragged down to the level of the trolls. I've seen this kinda thing before.
Remember back before you started hanging out with liberals? Slow it down. There you go. That's right, catch yer breath.
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| | | 115 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, Jun 09, 2009, 23:10
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There's really no question, in my mind, that Sotomayor is going to be a lot more conservative than many of the Dems believe she will be. Her judicial philosophy of following precedent in pretty much every case I've read will make her, at best, a moderate on the court.
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| | | 117 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 14:24
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George H. W. Bush sees it: “I don’t know her that well but I think she’s had a distinguished record on the bench and she should be entitled to fair hearings. Not – [it's] like the senator John Cornyn said it,” he told CNN. “He may vote for it, he may not. But he’s been backing away from these…backing off from those radical statements to describe her, to attribute things to her that may or may not be true.
“And she was called by somebody a racist once. That’s not right. I mean that’s not fair. It doesn’t help the process. You’re out there name-calling. So let them decide who they want to vote for and get on with it.”
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| | | 119 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 13:29
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I hate people who know I'm busy, are 10 minutes late, and don't call and let me know. They might as well go right on and tell me how much more valuable their time is than mine.
Also, unless she broke the ankle on the way to the meeting, it's not really an excuse is it.
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| | | 120 | Building 7
ID: 471052128 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 14:10
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She's late and somehow it's Corker's fault. Excellent.
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| | | 121 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 14:28
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I'm gonna side (mostly) with MBJ and B7 on this one, assuming we're getting the full story (always questionable). If you're having trouble getting around, rearrange your schedule ahead of time. Or get help. Or call ahead and say "Hey Bob, I'm running a little late"--at which point you either reschedule or make allowances.
That said, 10 minutes doesn't seem like a totally inordinate amount of time to be running late that you just blow out of there. How long was this meeting supopsed to be, anyway? It's not like Bob Corker could conduct a thorough interview with Sotomayor in 15 minutes anyway. If it was an hour meeting, great, stick around and make it a 50 minute meeting. If it was a 15 minute meeting, it was probably a waste of time (for everyone involved) in the first place.
All in all, this seems like it should have been a non-issue.
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| | | 122 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 14:32
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It is a non-issue, except for the poliscorekeepers at places like TPM.
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| | | 123 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 14:47
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No big disagreement there. I just hope I don't see any "she couldn't even make a meeting on time, how can she be a Supreme Court justice" wisecracks.
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| | | 124 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 14:50
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Right - That would be on the same level as someone who would make it an issue in a in a future political ad for his next opponent.
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| | | 125 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 15:19
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it's 10 minutes. has no one been 10 minutes late to a meeting before?
who says "oops, 10 minutes late, the nominee for the Supreme Court ain't coming," and then rushes off.
the fact it's news, is silly. the fact he split, is equally as silly. the fact she was late, was unfortunate.
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| | | 126 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jun 24, 2009, 00:02
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She's 10 minutes late for a 30 minute meeting, so Corker starts the next meeting 20 minutes early.
I'm saying that if meeting the SCOTUS nominee is important to you, you give her the 30 minutes you blocked out for her. It isn't whether she feels she is more important to you--it is whether the meeting is important to the people you represent.
The fact that she is literally hobbling should buy her the time anyway.
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| | | 127 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 13:48
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SCOTUS overturns Ricci case.
I'm sure that conservative groups will use this as some kind of referendum on Sotomayor herself, even though what she actually did was follow the law and refuse to legislate from the bench.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'm not done reading the ruling itself--lots of opinions for this case.
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| | | 128 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 14:09
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Greenwald:Several points are noteworthy about this decision:
(1) In light of today's ruling, it's a bit difficult -- actually, impossible -- for a rational person to argue that Sotomayor's Ricci decision places her outside the judicial mainstream when: (a) she was affirming the decision of the federal district court judge; (b) she was joined in her decision by the two other Second Circuit judges who, along with her, comprised a unanimous panel; (c) a majority of Second Circuit judges refused to reverse that panel's ruling; and now: (d) four out of the nine Supreme Court Justices -- including the ones she is to replace -- agree with her.
Put another way, 11 out of the 21 federal judges to rule on Ricci ruled as Sotomayor did. It's perfectly reasonable to argue that she ruled erroneously, but it's definitively unreasonable to claim that her Ricci ruling places her on some sort of judicial fringe.
(2) The irony of using Ricci against Sotomayor has always been that the reason this case resonates for so many people is due to empathy for the white firefighters. That irony is underscored by today's ruling, as Justice Kennedy devotes multiple paragraphs at the beginning of his opinion to highlighting all of the facts (as opposed to legal arguments) which make people sympathetic to Ricci. Conversely, Justice Ginsburg, writing for the dissenters, noted upfront that the white firefighters "understandably attract this Court's sympathy," but it must be the law -- i.e., long-standing legal precedent and the purpose of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act -- which determines the outcome.
From the start, those protesting Sotomayor's decision in Ricci did so by appealing not to law, but to emotion, non-legal precepts of "fairness" and empathy -- at the very same time that those very same people mocked the notion that those considerations should play any role in judicial decision-making.
(3) For all the chatter about "judicial activism" and that dreadful Roberts metaphor of "a neutral umpire calling balls and strikes," it is so striking how frequently conservative judges invalidate policies which conservatives dislike as a political matter. Here we have the conservative wing of the Court declaring illegal the employment decisions of local government officials, who used a political approach -- diversity -- which conservatives dislike on policy grounds. So often, the outcomes of the allegedly neutral conservative judges are completely consistent with (and aggressively advance) the political preferences of conservatives (Bush v. Gore being only the most obvious example). Indeed, few things are rarer than conservatives Justices invalidating policies that conservatives like politically, or upholding policies they despise -- the true test for whether one applies to law independently of political and outcome preferences.
(4) As is true for most discussions of affirmative action, the fight over Ricci has completely ignored the countless ways that whites in America have long benefited, and continue to benefit, from exactly the sort of non-merit considerations which affirmative action opponents decry. As Justice Ginsberg noted, whites had a virtual monopoly for decades on firefighter positions until Congress extended Title VII to public employment ("firefighting is a profession in which the legacy of racial discrimination casts an especially long shadow"), and city officials in this case determined that the test in question was flawed because, among other things, it did not reward merit. The result of the Court's decision in Ricci -- barring the City of New Haven from invalidating metrics with a racially disparate impact -- is this:

Regardless of one's views on affirmative action, the complaints about not-merit-based factors cut both ways. As for Sotomayor, the Court's 5-4 decision today ought to put an end to the attempt to use Ricci to depict her as being somehow out of the judicial mainstream and thus unfit for the Court.
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| | | 130 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 16:06
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The main thing this case demonstrates is how assinine the Court's line of Title VII disparate impact cases has become. The City was so frightened of a disparate impact suit that it engaged in direct racial discrimination and was left to argue that it's own test, which the record showed it had spent large sums and resources in developing was not "job related" What a joke Title VII has become.
While Ricci was not Sotomayor's finest hour and nothing her supporters should be bragging about - it's not an example of someone on the fringe. Like I said before - she's pretty much going to vote the way Souter would have - whatever that means to people.
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| | | 131 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 16:29
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I completely agree, MBJ. Unfortunately, many of these sweeping pieces of legislation have calcified on the books, and there is virtually no means to update the law (except piecemeal, through the courts) to reflect the changing social structure the laws were intended to address and "correct."
I'm not so sure that Kennedy is right in his majority opinion, but dealing with Title VII seems to be just a mess anyway.
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| | | 132 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 11:55
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starting to watch the confirmation hearings on Sotomayor...
one of the things that struck me as most interesting is Orrin Hatch saying that there are concerns about Sotomayor's remarks in regards to race, and in practically the same breath saying "you didn't vote for our latino, why should we vote for your latina?"
maybe i'm wrong about this, but considering the level at which hispanics are fleeing the Republican party, this sort of strategy could be a pretty dangerous one for the GOP that are opposed to her nomination.
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| | | 133 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 12:20
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I think Frank Ricci will be the star witness for the Republicans at the hearings. Considering that he's a serial litigator, he's probably not the best guy to have as your star witness.
I really don't see her not getting confirmed. If I were the GOP I'd be keeping my powder dry.
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| | | 134 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 12:38
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it's just the battle some seem to be picking is...weird...i suppose it's par for the course for the current GOP, that honestly appears to have lost touch with reality and what the people of this nation want.
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| | | 135 | Seattle Zen
ID: 526181313 Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 14:21
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Republicans have to raise a stink or they will be vilified by talk radio. Hey, I knew John Roberts was going to be confirmed but I wanted my senators to shred him apart, that's why I voted for them.
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| | | 136 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820 Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 22:37
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this sort of strategy could be a pretty dangerous one for the GOP that are opposed to her nomination Tell it to the protester who yelled, 'stop the abortion genocide of latino children'. Lotta catholics there and there is no question that PP targets minorities and the poor.
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| | | 137 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 00:11
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Tell it to the protester who yelled, 'stop the abortion genocide of latino children'.
because, of course, one nutcase speaks for all. i mean, i realize YOU subscribe to that theory, but most rational people don't.
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| | | 138 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 00:27
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Lefties love protesters. When did this turn around?
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| | | 139 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 10:00
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About the same time you started loving them, I think.
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| | | 140 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 10:34
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i don't have any problem with protesters.
i have a problem with the generalities and lies you base your entire belief system on.
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| | | 141 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 11:43
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About the same time you started loving them, I think.
You mean you guys were lieing all the time about how great protest was?
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| | | 144 | biliruben
ID: 461142511 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 11:51
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Do I think protest is an important part of what it is to be America? Sure.
Are there important messages that can be imparted that the establishment isn't keen on? Of course.
Are there plenty of fanatics with more energy than sense that protest, both on the loony left and the radical right? You betcha.
I have no idea what your point is, Baldwin.
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| | | 145 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 12:30
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"About the same time you started loving them, I think.
You mean you guys were lieing all the time about how great protest was?"
Exactly as much as 'you guys' were lying by decrying protesters as treasonous un-Americans, right? Which, I'm sure you'll tell me, is not at all.
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| | | 146 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 14:13
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it should also be noted that standing up and screaming "Baby killer! Baby killer!" in the Senate chambers isn't exactly protesting.
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| | | 148 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:03
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It wasn't the fact that they were protesting that made them treasonous. That would start at the pictures of america's worst enemies proudly sported on their chests, extend past their spitting on american soldiers and so forth.
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| | | 149 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:04
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What are you--in a freaking time machine stuck in 1968?
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| | | 150 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:12
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Saul Alinsky never went away. He came but he didn't went.
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| | | 151 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:30
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"It wasn't the fact that they were protesting that made them treasonous. That would start at the pictures of america's worst enemies proudly sported on their chests, extend past their spitting on american soldiers and so forth."
Um, can we talk about things that happened in the time frame in the designated hitter was in existence? I claim no responsibility for things that happened before I was born.
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| | | 152 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:42
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Um, can we talk about things that happened in the time frame in the designated hitter was in existence?
designated hitter? shoot, not only was the DH not in existence, but neither were the: Montreal Expos (now Washington Nationals) San Diego Padres Kansas City Royals Seattle Pilots Milwaukee Brewers Seattle Mariners Toronto Blue Jays Colorado Rockies Florida Marlins Arizona Diamondbacks Tampa Bay Devil Rays Tampa Bay Rays and the Washington Nationals...
...not to mention 8 NFL teams, 18 NHL teams, and 19 NBA teams.
good lord. Baldwin is our very own Japanese sniper, perched in a palm tree on his very own deserted island, unaware the war ended.
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| | | 153 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:58
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That's his problem--he doesn't believe the world has changed since 1968.
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| | | 154 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 22:04
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i wish there were 2 political forums. I with a "R" and one with a "D".
There has never been a decent 'debate' between the letters. Just a screaming contest that has gone on for 8 years.
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| | | 155 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 22:30
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RFS - i disagree. When MBJ posted regularly, when Madman posted, when Steve Houpt wrote novels, there was good, solid, debate.
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| | | 156 | Pancho Villa
ID: 336531421 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 22:54
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That would start at the pictures of america's worst enemies proudly sported on their chests, extend past their spitting on american soldiers and so forth.
I fear you're the victim of propaganda and brainwashing. I say this because I lived in California in the late 60s, hung out on Telegraph in Berkeley, Golden Gate Park, the hill in Boulder, Co., and was in Washington DC on 11/15/69. Never, not once did I ever hear someone claim they had spit on a soldier or wished to do so. The people proudly sported on their T-Shirts were John Lennon and Jimi Hendrix. Of the hundreds of Vietnam vets I've known, not one has ever claimed to have been spit upon. But lots of them wore John Lennon shirts.
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| | | 157 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 23:11
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re: 155
Maybe so, but I can pick up the morning paper and with 100% accuracy predict who (gurupies) will post what and start what threads and take what sides.
I've never seen a D-Gurupie ponder anything openly against the D party line and never see an R-Gurupie mull over an anti-R party line.
For example, I can't imagine Tree posting in advance of Soto's SC pick a conversation about reverse discrimination -- JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES. The same way Baldy would never kick around the "theory" that Soto has a solid judicial record.
I might as well be anticipating Keith Oberman vs. Rush Limbaugh.
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| | | 158 | chode
ID: 23412621 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 23:37
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word
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| | | 159 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 23:47
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You don't follow every discussion then. I must have posted 1000 posts about how neocons were Trotskyites who had taken over the republican party. Not exactly the republican line for three republican terms in the WH.
Do Bush and I agree on 9/11? We're polar opposites.
MITH and PV are capable of entertaining contrarian views and giving them half a fair shake.
Nerve is a closet contrarian.
B7 wouldn't be welcome at the republican convention most likely.
Who opposes the drug war? Me, that's who.
MBJ is an inverterate fence sitter. You rarely know who he'll side with.
The big change around here has been liberal packs of booing cheerleaders who never contribute anything.
Even my ignoring them half the time, leaves me and Tree filling the threads with petty bickering because I can't leave the drivel unanswered ALL the time and he can't shut up ever.
There's something screwy with expecting that principled people would flip flop on issues or that sheep would break with the zeitgeist. If you are waiting around for that naturally you will be disappointed.
It is only when people don't walk the party line that things get thot provoking. When PD never ever varies from it, no one says, 'how boring and predictable' and when I do break with the official version of events everyone calls me a nutter, so just how bad do you really want to see anything besides the predictable party talking points of the day?
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| | | 160 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 23:54
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I've never seen a D-Gurupie ponder anything openly against the D party line and never see an R-Gurupie mull over an anti-R party line.
then you're absolutely not paying attention. off the top of my head, i can say with certainty that MITH, PV, and MBJ have expressed opinions that run counter to what you might "expect".
For example, I can't imagine Tree posting in advance of Soto's SC pick a conversation about reverse discrimination
because i don't believe it exists in that case. i do find it funny that a fireman who at least in part got where he was because of the ADA then turns around and says that what the city of New Haven did vis a vis the white vs. black firemen was wrong. that's absurd - you can't have it both ways, yet he wants it.
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| | | 161 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 00:23
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For the most part I think he's absolutely right, tree. There are some differences, but alarmist language tends to make people defensive, appear to be less open, and spend more time attacking than mulling.
Wasn't always that way, however, as tree correctly points out. Madman rarely strayed from his Right positions, but it didn't make him less thoughtful. I certainly found, in reading posts from those on the "other side," that well written and thoughtful posts from houpt, Madman, Toral, and many others made me think a lot harder about my own positions (and the biases that sometimes make them up).
Sadly, Baldwin (and sometimes B7 & boikin) is all that's left of the Right, so to speak. A guy who spends much of his time trying to demonstrate that Obama is not a citizen and who is a Marxist in sheep's clothing.
With fewer quality posts coming from the Right side of the aisle, most of what goes on in the middle & left is wheel spinning, frankly.
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| | | 162 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 00:34
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Another factor is that there have been dozens of interesting points I just haven't had the energy to go into. There is no one from the conservative side holding up their end with any vigor. And I am not sure there is any neocon represented at all. The libertarian side would be covered by Nerve but he's too busy.
I just don't care like I used to. Too many attempts at retiring. Way too half-hearted in the return. Way less patience and I get that mirrored back.
That just leaves Obama yes men. Lurker bombthowers who do a drive by now and then. Tree wanna-be's who wanna try their troll hand at booing briefly and unaccountably. Who am I leaving out?
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| | | 163 | CanadianHack
ID: 747218 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 05:07
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What Baldwin is saying:
Yes he is doing a half-assed job of posting here and its the fault of liberals.
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| | | 164 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 09:37
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Republicans have to raise a stink or they will be vilified by talk radio. Hey, I knew John Roberts was going to be confirmed but I wanted my senators to shred him apart, that's why I voted for them.
do you think that after all her years as a judge, the numerous questions from numerous senators about her "wise Latina" remark, is a bit much at this point?
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| | | 165 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 10:11
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Re: 162--you might be surprised that there are a number of things that I don't necessarily agree with the "Obama yes men" on.
Please do a better job of not trying to lump every single person who disagrees with your views on a subject as a liberal Obama yes-man and I'll try to do a better job of bothering to point out where that label doesn't apply.
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| | | 166 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 10:16
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re: 165
and i think that's the problem. Baldwin's arguments always revert to black and white, us and them, with generalities that range from "pro-choice = baby killers" to "Obama supporter = liberal/marxist/blind" etc...
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| | | 167 | Boldwin
ID: 467910 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 10:35
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Hack
Well that was clever at least. What I mean is that politics isn't my passion. It's just something I know real well and I hate to see know-nothings getting it all wrong.
Poliboard, I wish I knew how to quit you.
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| | | 168 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 11:30
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Extremist watch. Sotomayor is a terrorist! Like Bill Ayers!
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| | | 169 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 11:39
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To take up the thought on the Obama thread (I think) about the protester at the hearings, RWW has an interview by Alan Colmes of the protester in question.
Apparently the efforts by the Right to insist that education equals "uppity" is having an effect. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you your "real American": Norma McCorvey!
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| | | 170 | mith
ID: 266341623 Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 00:34
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RFS might want to pay closer attention. Who started a thread specifically for the purpose of calling out Obama for continuing and expanding on Bush policies he regularly criticized for over 2 years?
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| | | 171 | rockafellerskank Dude
ID: 27652109 Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 11:18
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My bad. 1 thread out of a couple thousand. i should never say never. I'm sure you can find more examples or individual posts, but I'll be 99+% correct.
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| | | 172 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 11:20
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i don't even think you've read any post in this threads, with people from all sides of the aisle point out how wrong you are with your generalization.
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| | | 174 | Boldwin
ID: 376192015 Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 22:44
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Coming around? He started out admitting she was a shoo-in. Then he proceded to point out all the reasons he shouldn't vote for her. And then he is gonna magnanimously shaft his base just to make liberals like him. Which is ridiculous but somehow libs get republicans to fall for that false hope time and time again.
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| | | 176 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 22:48
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Well, he pretty well said what everyone really knows at the 1:00 mark.
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| | | 177 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 22:56
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Imagine that--a Republican changing his mind in light of the facts! Who, I wonder, is this "base" that he believes Graham should pander to?
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| | | 178 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 23:25
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As soon as James Dobson and Ann Coulter tell him, he'll get back to us on that.
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| | | 179 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 09:45
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Republicans who look at facts and think logically are very clearly RINOs.
Baldwin clearly prefers the opinion of Pat Buchanan...
...you're dating yourself, and you're living in the 1950s...
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| | | 180 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 18:35
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Sotomayor easily confirmed today.
Some GOP members seem angry she wasn't empathetic enough to white people. Or something like that.
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| | | 181 | Boldwin
ID: 376192015 Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 21:44
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A justice who can't make up her mind until she finds out the race of those before her, is not worthy of the job.
One who has travelled the country advocating for that style of [in]justice for years is even worse.
There is a reason the statue of justice wears a blindfold but Sotomayor is peeking.
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| | | 182 | Perm Dude
ID: 154552311 Thu, Aug 06, 2009, 21:55
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The most extended complaints against her decisions were about Ricci and her handgun case, both of which she applied the law and refused to legislate from the bench. For Ricci, the white GOP senators seemed put off that she refused to show Frank Ricci and empathy--implying that she should ignore the actual law and rule from a position of victim empathy.
She was taken to task about her "wise Latina" remark without any single decision (go ahead, find one) which can be pointed to in which that bias actually appeared.
The far right wants it both ways: Criticize her for saying empathy matters (though unable to show it through any decisions), and criticizing her for not showing that empathy in a sliver of cases in which the law clearly was against them.
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