Forum: pol
Page 3304
Subject: Holocaust Museum shooting

  Posted by: Perm Dude - [154552311] Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 18:43
Worth a mention

When does three far right wacko shootings make a trend? How about accompanied by the level of hatred that continues to spill out on the far right about Obama?

Shep Smith expresses his concern about the base.

Am I saying the GOP is violent? No--no way. Not for a moment. But I think the GOP in general, and some Republicans in particular, find that irresponsibly fanning the flames of citizen anger against their perceived political opponents to be about the only thing they know how to do anymore. And you reap what you sow.
 
1Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:24 		Perhaps they were inspired by Wright.

 
2Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:43 		yea, that's likely. i like your cute little way of twisting things.

Wright may make his radical statements, but a racist, anti-semitic right winger likely didn't give his words much heed.
 
3Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 11:07 		Glen Beck probably isn't a good example of even temperament on the Right--he's a Chief Fanner himself. The fact that there are wacko anti-semetics on the Left doesn't mean that the Angry Right (including the birthers and so on) are off the hook.
 
4Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 13:47 		The GOP is responsible for an 88 year old racist nut job who had been carrying out violent crimes since the 1970's, at least, in exactly the same way the Al Gore and the Democratic party are responsible for the Unabomber, i.e., not at all.

I thought Obamaites were opposed to cheap poitical opportunism. Not so much, apparently.
 
5Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 14:00 		That's not at all what I said, MBJ, and I suspect you know that. But saying what you would allow the flamers to dodge any responsibility for anything at all.

Again, you reap what you sow. And the DHS report on right wing extremists (widely assailed by the conservative media for being overblown and politically driven) seems downright prescient. At least Shep Smith seems to get it.
 
6Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 14:12 		That's not at all what I said, MBJ, and I suspect you know that.


So the GOP has sowed the seeds that led to this by being rude to the opposition? By disagreeing with Obama? That's cheap. Did environmentalists reap what they sowed with the Unabomber.

Describe for me how the GOP led this man in any way to be a violent ant-semite who believed that Anne Frank was ficitonal and that the Holocaust was a government scam. Show me the GOP pols who fanned the flames of hatred for the Holocaust Museum so that I can condemn them with you. Or is every nut that commits an act of violence going to be the GOP fault for so long as Carl Rove is mean-spirited toward Obama?
 
7Seattle Zen
      ID: 135121113
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 14:12 		When does three far right wacko shootings make a trend?

With the number of guns and shootings in this country, you would need far more than three before it is a trend. Furthermore, it's not like anyone is saying things like, "man, I sure would like to see X gone somehow." or "What we need is fewer X's as soon as possible." and then X gets shot immediately thereafter. The shooter is then quoted saying "Babba Booey."

Let's get rid of the guns. I don't think you can get rid of the Angry White Man syndrome.
 
8Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 14:22 		There are plenty of examples in the GOP thread of over-the-top language (more than just being "rude"); using messianic, endtimes, and confrontational language in order to anger people is often the whole point, MBJ.

You seem to want to let these people off the hook for merely shouting "Fie!" in the crowded theater, because a connection to this deliberate act (the end result of an immersion into hate from many sources) is difficult to draw to any one particular source.

But we don't need that connection in order to re-examine behaviors and decide that the flamers are wrong.
 
9Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 14:27 		Chief Flamer Glenn Beck has no intention of examining what he does. His response? First, isolate the guy. Then blame it on the Left.

Works for excising moderate Republicans from the Party, I think. But coming a guy who lives to infuse wacko far-right theories into the mainstream (the same ones the shooters feed upon) this seems to be more irresponsibility from him. As one might expect.
 
10Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 15:05 		But coming a guy who lives to infuse wacko far-right theories into the mainstream (the same ones the shooters feed upon)

What exclusively wacko right wing theory did this shooter feed upon that led him to the Holocaust Memorial yesterday?
 
11Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 15:07 		I hold the radicals from the wacko Spay and Neauter crowd partly to blame for this...
 
12tree, on the treo
      ID: 55220277
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 15:20 		I keep thinking back to those rallies a few months ago when conservatives were teabagging each other.

one sign comes to mind...."we didn't bring our guns....this time."

the flames of anger are there. so are the guns.

and it just takes a few choice words by limbaugh. coulter, beck,and all those others to fan those flame into fire and destruction.

the seeds are there and slowly being acted on.

 
13biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 15:41 		What exclusively wacko right wing theory did this shooter feed upon that led him to the Holocaust Memorial yesterday?

I don't know that it led him to the Holocaust Memorial, but the dude spent his time at the website Free Republic, ranting about Obama, and his legitimacy to be president, due to lack of convincing documentation that he was born in the US, and spent years in prison trying to kidnap Board members of the Federal Reserve. All these things pretty clearly fall into a right wing mold, and all are directly or overtly supported by at least some members of the Republican party in congress.

That the DHS' report which specifically identified folks like this as a threat to commit acts of domestic terrorism was ridiculed as absurd by Republican congressmen.

Now open racism and antisemitism doesn't fly in DC these days, but his views pretty squarely place him in the Right-Wing Wacko category.
 
14Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 15:44 		spent his time at the website Free Republic, ranting about Obama, and his legitimacy to be president, due to lack of convincing documentation that he was born in the US, and spent years in prison trying to kidnap Board members of the Federal Reserve.

change the website, and take away the kidnapping attempts, and you've got some rotoguru posters. you've also got the anger, venom, spite, and general mean-spiritedness of those same posters.
 
15Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 16:03 		Well, I don't think for a minute that the posters here are anything like him except both are expressing anger.

His problem was that he was ready and willing to take it to the next level (always has, from what I can see), and his already-held anger was fanned by irresponsible conservative entertainers like Rush.

The posters here are anonymously venting anger, which is inflated mostly because there are virtually no repercussions for being an online wacko.
 
16boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 17:51 		Just read link from #9 did not realize ron paul was flamer of hate, guess you learn something everyday.
 
17Nuclear Gophers
      ID: 30442228
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 17:56 		#14
or David Letterman
 
18Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 18:06 		#16: Ron Paul is mentioned in passing, specifically with his Fed fixation. He's not a flamer, as far as I know, and certainly he's not the point of the link.

But you're not interested in that. But rather than providing a contextual response, you're interested in painting that link as something other than it is.
 
19boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 18:15 		PD, you jump to conclusions so fast, it is good thing they are not cliffs and I actually found that interesting about Ron Paul because i have friend who is big Ron Paul supporter and I was thinking man i wonder how he would feel if he found this out.
 
20Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 18:24 		You mean found out something you made up? I dunno--depends upon how good of a friend it was.

It isn't Alan Greenspan, by any chance? I heard he can be a real dick.

:)
 
21boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 18:31 		made up? actually i was just going to send him the link, Im to lazy, plus he would probably enjoy the insanity of glen beck. On a side note if it was not for you posting things about him I would not even know who he is.
 
22biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 18:49 		I find Ron Paul refreshing, in that he is a reasonably honest politician who says what he believes, and does highlight some lunacy and institutionalized corruption and duplicity.

The unfortunate thing us that some of the the things he believes are kinda nutty.
 
23Pancho Villa
      ID: 16532128
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 09:33 		It's mind-boggling that Glen Beck(post #1)presents Wright's comments about "them Jews" as a counter to the claim that radical ideologues on the right are fomenting violence among the most aggressive in their flock.

Wright is a private citizen who, AFAIK, has no TV or radio show or any type of media outlet or blog. While I find his use of "them Jews" a reflection of his prejudice, it was, in context, a rather benign characterization.

In comparison, there is an entire wing of the media which promotes a message that radical beliefs and behavior are not only acceptable, but admirable. It is with stunning disbelief that Beck, Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh and Savage, all part of the mainstream media who claim to be patriotic conservatives, are in complete denial as to effect of their message on some of their fans.

"Liberals are traitors" - Ann Coulter

How are traitors dealt with? They're executed.

"Deliberately destroying America" - Baldwin

How do you deal with those committed to destroying your country? Some might suggest you destroy them first.

The 1st amendment protects this rhetoric, as it should. But please don't feign innocence when someone actually acts on these suggestions.
 
24Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 09:53 		The 1st amendment protects this rhetoric, as it should. But please don't feign innocence when someone actually acts on these suggestions.

Who has acted on the suggestions of Ann Coulter and Baldwin?
 
25Pancho Villa
      ID: 16532128
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 11:39 		Who has acted on the suggestions of Ann Coulter and Baldwin?

I provided an example of the common rhetoric being used by far right ideologues which is a factor in some of these recent events of violence.

From: "James W. von Brunn" Subject: FW: Henrik Holappa arrested Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:15:08 -0400

Millions of low IQ non-whites are encouraged to illegally invade the USA . They are provided sanctuary, jobs, health-care schooling, by those intent upon destroying Western Civilization. Whereas, the subject of this email, Henrik Holappa, the Finn, who has committed no illegal acts, is arrested and incarcerated illegally by American agents in Marxist employ.

The Henrik Holappa atrocity is a metaphor for the ILLUMINATI conquest of America: The ILLUMINATI, has captured America illegally, and is incarcerating her NOW into a Global Zionist state.

Well informed patriots are ignoring the URGENCY, the extreme DANGER confronting them. There is sparse time remaining. You must ACT NOW. KILL THE ENEMY OR DIE IN THE GULAG !

Notice any buzz words used commonly on this and other forums? Ever read the comments on an Ann Coulter column? Here's a few choice ones from yesterday's column:

That Ohbummer was the Red Black Jimmy Carter, without the administrative ability and Foreign Policy accumen.

I also pointed out what the track record of "Chocolate" admins like The Big Stupid Easy and MB's DC was.

Seems to me that Beloved Dear Fuehrer Village Organizer Chairman HO aka Smokin BO KOOLS is best at, as might have been expected given where he comes from, is LOOTING.

What do you expect when you give em a stolen credit card?

mick

........................................

Like all previous destructive leaders in history, Barack Obama is a pathological narcissist and has a very weak sense of self.

Like all previous destructive leaders in history, Barack Obama compensates his devalued and injured self with pomposity and by projecting a false image of majesty and authority.

Like all previous destructive leaders in history, Barack Obama retreats into a bubble universe of fantasy, in which he is loved, respected and omnipotent.

All children create such a world. Destructive Narcissists like Barack Obama and all previous destructive leaders in history, simply don’t leave it.

Barack Obama Like all previous destructive leaders in history, has carried this world of pretense into his adulthood.

Barack Obama has made his false image so real, Barack Obama can NO longer differentiate his 'Pretend World', from reality (real world).

Barack Obama has the emotional maturity of a child, but the intellect of a man.

Barack Obama is dangerous and will be become even more dangerous.

.................................

Of course conservative want peace and are full of love ... but, we have discovered that the best way to "educate" the evildoers is a well-aimed bullet to the brain ... learning is instantaneous and there's no regression!

..................................

Oblaba is still in campaign mode and will be so for however long he gets to pull this con until he can retire to the big payday of the lecture circuit. If the world doesn't end before, he will get to see the fruits of his elitist egotistical naivete as the revolution seeks to reverse the bankrupting agenda, depression and wars he and the dims so aggressively pursued and caused.

......................................

That's a small sampling. I didn't even get to post #50 out of 885. It's not hard for me to believe that there's a percentage of this contingency that is willing to act violently against perceived threats, be they illuminati, the globalist elite, abortion doctors, illegal immigrants, or liberals in general.


 
26biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 13:36
 
27Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 13:37 		Greg Mitchel: My Daughter's Chilling Account of Years at Holocaust Museum
 
28Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 13:48 		The Far Right's response includes---going after Shep Smith.

Like Stalin, whom they emulate, purging seems to be their initial response to anything bad.
 
29Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 14:20 		Exceptional entry from Hilzoy today.
 
30Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 21:12 		Statement by the shooter's son.
 
31Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 09:42 		PV

How can you post that without an attribution?
 
32Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 10:03 		All Hilzoy needs to do is recognize that no one in commentary carefully deliniates what percentage of the left or right to which they refer.

You could do it. You could come up with a well thot out estimate everytime but I haven't seen that from the left here in this forum, when they discuss the 'hateful right'.

Talk about ascribing bad motives to those you disagree with, when did anyone on the left ever worry that they might be guilty of that? Do they ever wring their hands over their own over-generalizing?

Excuse me if I point out the obvious...america just went thru eight years of watching liberals, a whole lot of them, exult over every coffin flying in from Iraq and use it as a tool against Bush. They ticked off every milestone like they were breathlessly waiting for McGuire's next homerun. Just how much difference was their between Sarge's Bush Derangement Syndrome and every other liberal poster on any forum out there? Hilzoy is spinning like mad to evade the obvious. Just how does he expect the right to view that attitude and not be angry about it and so many other inexcusable incomprehensible liberal positions? Perplexed amusement? That is the liberal response to the right when they don't agree?
 
33Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 10:16 		did anyone on the left ever worry that they might be guilty of that?

Go ahead then, point out all the similar balnket statements I've made over the years. Or by all means, search Obsidian Wings for Hilzoy's sloppy uses of "the right".

Yes, Boldwin, the left is generally much more conscious of avoiding these types of broad-brush accusations.
 
34biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 10:51 		...and Baldwin whines about moral equivalence.
 
35DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 12:27 		"Excuse me if I point out the obvious...america just went thru eight years of watching liberals, a whole lot of them, exult over every coffin flying in from Iraq and use it as a tool against Bush.

I think you mistyped "mourn" here. Except for a very small fringe wing of crackpots, NOBODY likes to see soldiers die.

You tend to like it even LESS, not more, when you think those lives are wasted for something they shouldn't be wasted for.
 
36tree, on the treo
      ID: 55220277
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 12:45 		baldwin never met a mis-characterization or outright lie about the left that he didn't embrace with enthusiasm....
 
38Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 13:08 		You could come up with a well thot out estimate everytime but I haven't seen that from the left here in this forum, when they discuss the 'hateful right'.

You really don't pay attention very well. I and others have been calling you out for precisely that activity for years. This forum is chock-full of literally scores (maybe hundreds) of your disparraging quotes unconditionally stating that "the left" is this and "liberals" are that, with no qualifying words or even any possibile literal interpretation that could refer only to a subgroup of the stated subject.

In fact, it is thanks in large part to this offensive and credibility-eroding habit of yours that I am careful to avoid such egregious blanket-type statements. For the record, a quick check using Guru's search tools (in both the active and deleted threads) will show that the term "hateful right" has actually never been used in the way you suggest in this forum prior to post 32 above (in one old thread I did refer to "hateful right-wing rhetoric"). I believe I have referred to the 'rabid right' from time to time, however I can assure you that in every one of those references, the intended subject was the portion of the right which I consider to rabid - and specifically not the entire political right broadly defined as 'rabid'.
 
39Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 05:41 		Yes, Boldwin, the left is generally much more conscious of avoiding these types of broad-brush accusations. - Mith

Yeah, visit most lib sites and you trip over the term repugs nearly every other post.
 
40biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 16:47 		First I've heard that term. What sites do you troll?
 
41Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 18:56 		The ones you guys link to.
 
42Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 19:30 		The ones you guys link to.

typical answer from Baldwin when he's on the run - he doesn't answer, and tries to turn it around on you.

i stopped searching google after 5 pages. aside from some comments on news articles by readers and a few blogs i'd never heard of, the only entry that could even be construed as evidence would be This reader's blog on Talking Points Memo, written OVER THREE YEARS AGO...

I'd not heard the term either until you mentioned it Baldwin, and considering the various things you refuse to read that might actually educate you, i have serious doubt you spend much time on the mainstream liberal blogs.

but please, i know i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and i suspect others here will.

provide some contemporary links from some of the sites we link to with regularity, and I know i will take back my criticism of you here, but quite frankly, i think you're just pulling stuff out of your butt, and don't have a leg to stand on.

prove me wrong.
 
43Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 20:09 		visit most lib sites and you trip over the term repugs nearly every other post

...?

I've occassionally come across the term in blog comments sections. So what?

Juvenile insults like "repug" aren't anything like the type of broad brush accusations I'm talking about.

Does B really think referring to Republicans (most typically pols, I believe) as "repugs" is the same as claiming leftists get excited when American soldiers get killed and celebrate each and every American solider's death?

Congratulations. You just surrendered the right to ever have a complaint about moral equivolence taken seriously again.
 
44Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 23:17 		no shocker Baldwin backed off here as well.
 
45Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:34 		Tree

I don't come here to talk to you. I refuse to be dragged down to your level as Boxman was. I will as a rule not be answering you at all.

If by some miracle someone here whose intelligence I respect wants me to address your point, he will have to translate your debate point from the original troll.
 
46Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:36 		There is someone here whose intelligence you respect?
 
47Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:44 		You on a good day. Bili, Nerve, Razor if he'd actually do anything serious around here. Other less frequent potsers if I gave it some thot. MBJ but who sees him more than once a month now days? [Not meaning to slight the deserving]. Plenty who only lurk these days, having been driven away by the trolls.
 
48Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 17:45 		PD, three years ago. And if he ever recovers his soul.
 
49tree, on the treo
      ID: 515451613
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 18:04 		bili made the same challenge. in fact, he made it first....

no surprise you won't meet my challenges. must chap your hide to be made a fool by someone you mock so often...

 
50Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 18:12 		Let's prove it this way. I never frequent liberal sites unless you count this one. So it's obvious where I run into it all the time. Either your links or liberals commentng on conservative sites.
 
51Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 18:15 		Post 50 constitutes as "proof"? Of what?
 
52DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 19:02 		Oh, come on. You can't expect him to use the search function to find actual examples. Can't you just take his word for it?
 
53Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 19:53 		Proof of 'where'.
 
54DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:24 		I think what my esteemed colleague is trying to say is that we believe you are lying or mistaken. It should be very easy for you to provide counter-examples to correct this assumption on our parts if you are, in fact, not lying or mistaken.
 
55Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:27 		Typical liberal wateringhole:

Indymedia

One of PD's fav sites:

Talkingpointsmemo

One of the currently most popular liberal sites:

Huffington Post

No need to go on.
 
56Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:28 		And as proper liberal postmodernists, you guys don't even believe in truth. It's all relative...remember?
 
57Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:32 		Good question, MITH.

Single comments on blog sites, for example, are probably not the level of "proof" that Baldwin should be striving for. But hey, let's let him set the bar here.

You can see where this is going, Baldwin. I doubt you have the ability to stop yourself, however.

 
58Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:41 		Baah! Who am I kidding? Look up "thin-skinned bomb thrower" in the dictionary and you'll see Baldwin's bunker.

Write when you get some standards, Baldwin.
 
59Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:42 		He's deliberately mucking up the discussion. Anyone who can read knows this nonsense is a distraction from post 43, not a response to it.

By all means just let him convince himself he's won the debate. As far as he's concerned he's never lost one here, anyway.
 
60Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 20:57 		Honestly no one has to prove the other issue. You guys hung on every milestone in the casualty list, every photo from a plane hauling coffins to Germany as if it were the freakin' holy grail.
 
61Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:01 		Really? Where, Baldwin?

MITH: This coming from a guy who prides himself on not sucking the teat of the MSM so much, he actively reads and links to a site which once took seriously and quoted (without attribution) from The Onion. A man who dislikes the media so much that he actively cheers on the biggest media whore in the land as she does her "swing and a miss!" act on anyone she can in order to get--media attention.
 
62Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:10 		Oh so be it. I get excited when American soldiers die. There, I admitted it.

I love it. In fact I celebrate each and every last one.

So my secret's out.

Old Baldy wins another one.
 
63Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:28 		Sarge more than you. I have to have a happy meter trained on each and every one of you? It was in the air. That was the liberal talking points. That was the prize you were gonna wave around to usher in the next Dem admionistration. Well you got yer administration and as usual you weren't too concerned if americaans died for nothing so long as it got you the power you hold so dear.
 
64Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:29 		Drop your email and I promise I'll remember send you an invite to the next dead soldier blowout.
 
65Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:30 		we play techno music.
 
66Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:30 		from russia.
 
67Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:51 		Figures.
 
68Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 22:04 		Typical liberal wateringhole:

Indymedia

One of PD's fav sites:

Talkingpointsmemo

One of the currently most popular liberal sites:

Huffington Post

No need to go on.

so you linked to a bunch of personal blogs and comment pages, some going as far back as 2001??!?!?!

again - try and do something even remotely mainstream. i'm sure, given the infinite monkey theorem which absolutely defines you personally, you'll find a few, but the fact of the matter is that you have no qualms lying, misleading, deceiving, and just being plain old untruthful in an attempt to prove a false point.

you no longer bother to do real research, you no longer adhere to many of the religious beliefs you probably did to at one time, and you no longer have the conviction and honesty to legitimately back up a claim you make, instead, depending on tactics you hope will fool people, but in reality, just make people see you as a fool.
 
69DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 23:10 		Boldwin, you guys relish the thought of torturing people. You guys relish blowing up villages of innocent villagers. You guys relish taking away all the freedoms that Americans enjoy in the name of security.

Of course, I don't need any proof, it's just obvious.


Are you satisfied with this level of argument?
 
70Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 23:22 		I might have suggested that he gleefully rejoices each and every last aborted fetus.
 
71Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 03:43 		I just want you to know what it looked like when you were counting down to 2000 troop deaths as breathlessly as if you were watching the ball drop new year's day.

If you thot that was impressing the right you were right but for all the wrong reasons.
 
72Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 07:26 		yea, because THAT'S how it happened.

there was no glee in that number, or in the fact we've since more than doubled that number. it was simply a benchmark to measure the cost of this terrible and ill-conceived war.

ironic that you talk about the excitement over deaths - little doubt that every time a muslim dies, there is celebration in your heart.
 
73Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 07:29 		I couldn't possibly care any less about whether you know that your memory of any "countdown" that I took part in is a fabrication of your imagination.

And for the record while I argued for allowing the press to use images of coffin-draped caskets (a position I still hold) I don't believe I have ever used the image of a dead American soldier to argue a politica point. If I search hard how many political points of yours will I come across which employ the image of an aborted fetus?
 
74sarge33rd
      ID: 42541176
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 07:41 		Post 63...Oh really Baldwin? For some "reason" (and I use the term VERY loosely); yo seem to feel as though I was elated with the deaths of fellow soldiers?

You sir; are an ass. The magnitude of which has possibly never before been seen on this Earth.

You could not be, it is not possible, more wrong.
 
76Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 08:17 		Sarge

I missed that he included your name with mine in that post.

There is no way he'll ever produce a post from you or I celebrating the deaths of American soldiers. In fact I could produce posts in the Abu Ghraib thread from both of us rushing to the defense of American troops from absurd accusations from at least one far-left radical poster. Not exactly the convenient position for Iraq War opposers to take.

I'm sure you know, but be reassured anyway that I and most regulars here would never sully the honor of your service by accusing you of celebrating the combat deaths of your fellow soldiers.

It takes a real scumbag to accuse a veteran of such a thing without offering even a shred of proof. I don't care what perverse fantasies his dementia has him believing are real memories - that's simply vile.

We're all guilty of occasionally taking our arguments a step too far. This is one of those times.
 
77Boldwin
      ID: 133532810
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 13:26 		Those countdowns were sure a counter-productive political stunt then, weren't they? Because they sure gave people the wrong impression then.
 
78DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 13:28 		Obviously you prefer keeping the real cost of the crusade hidden as much as possible.

PS: We're all still awaiting your apology to sarge.
 
79Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 13:28 		What countdowns?

Produce one from Sarge or me.

Just one.

Or shut the fu¢k up.

Please.