Forum: pol
Page 3318
Subject: The Real Sarah Palin, part two


  Posted by: Tree - [41371322] Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 16:09

now's as good a time as any to start anew with a previously long thread:

Palin resigning as Alaska governor
 
1Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 18:15
Wow.. Another strange twist in the ongoing Palin saga.
 
2Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 19:55
Best quick response I've seen
 
3Razor
      ID: 294491714
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 22:53
Such common sense hasn't been seen in these parts since Reagan.
 
4Biliruben on iffyone
      ID: 52052916
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 23:26
And so ends her 15 min, except in minds of dirty old
coservative white men.
 
5Pancho Villa
      ID: 10645322
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 23:45
I'm conflicted. Financially speaking, she needs to strike while the iron's hot. She can make millions as a media hussy, which would seem to be her objective.

It's ethically responsible to resign her position rather than attempt a clandestine career as an under-the-table acceptor of her worshipers' millions.

It's kind of a refreshing honesty and traditionally American to admit you don't want to toil as a public servant - you want to be rich.
 
6Seattle Zen
      ID: 51640311
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 23:57
It's kind of a refreshing honesty and traditionally American to admit you don't want to toil as a public servant - you want to be rich.

Yes, as she said (highlighted in PD's link) quitters toil. That's a "worthless path".

I'm sure the people of Alaska are glad to no longer be such a drag on her time.
 
7Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 03:24
there is part of me that thinks there is ultimately going to be more to this story - otherwise, why announce on a day when most people are distracted by other things, such as what they're going to grill the next day.
 
8holt
      ID: 2463620
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 05:16
who cares? seriously.
 
9Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 07:34
there is ultimately going to be more to this story - otherwise, why announce on a day when most people are distracted

Typically when politicians announce things like their sudden resignation on the Friday afternoon before a holiday weekend, it's in attempt to minimize the media coverage.
 
10Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 07:40
And I don't mind discussing Palin. Deserving or not, the right has decided that she is one of the most prominant figures in national politics. Frankly I'm glad to be able to have a conversation about her that is relevent in political current events and has nothing to do with her children and family.

But I would have brought this up in the direction of the GOP thread. Palin has (had?) as many supporters who see her as the flag-bearer of the party as anyone else, so I think the impact on the political landscape is the bigger story. What happens to the top of the GOP food chain now?
 
11Razor
      ID: 294491714
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 07:40
I just finished the transcript of her speech. Here's a summary for anyone short on time:

I have done a great job as governor. Liberals stink. The media stinks. I've gotten too big for this gig. I support the troops. The world needs more Trigs, not fewer. Thanks for entrusting me with the governorship, but I am going to go do other stuff. See ya. Luv, Sarah.
 
12Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 08:01
I imagine she concluded with a wink.
 
13Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 10:06
Typically when politicians announce things like their sudden resignation on the Friday afternoon before a holiday weekend, it's in attempt to minimize the media coverage.

that was my point.

i posted something on facebook about how i thought there was more to her resignation. one of my friends posted this link about how a federal indictment for embezzlement might be involved, but i don't know the reliability of the site linked in regards to honest reporting, so it's more for potentially informational reasons instead of saying "AHA! this is it!!"
 
14Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 11:40
It wouldn't surprise me if there was something lurking, but I don't think we should, in any Sarah Palin analysis, stray too far from the fact that at her heart she is a snowbilly. To think like Sarah, you need to put yourself into the mind of an overachieving white trash woman. For her, much of what happens is about acquiring power to affect things around her. The campaign was sooo frustrating for her because she could not control the things that were said about her and her family.

Likewise, in a perverse way, her many lies are just another way for the narrative to spring from her and her alone.

My take? Palin got tired of the actual work part, and quit because she could. Her resignation and its timing is entirely up to her, making it attractive.

No doubt she'll be popping up on the FOX talk circuit, but don't be surprised if she pisses off some of those people by doing things to retain a sense of her own independence, like not showing up sometimes.

 
15holt
      ID: 2463620
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 15:00
"overachieving white trash woman"

You're so brilliant PD. You must spend half the day stroking your wonderful self.
 
16Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 18:39
Anyone who knows me IRL knows that I come from white trash stock. I say what I say from experience.

I'm sorry if that hurts you.
 
17Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 22:42
Either she's being blackmailed, and beating them to the punch by resigning or she has decided to explore a presidential run without the inevitable charge that she was neglecting her job to follow her ambition. I lean towards the second.
 
18Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 23:00
Because it allows you to continue the fiction that she's blameless of all the ethics ?

I suspect a fourth reason might be entering the picture: The seriousness of the most recent charges made her try to short-circuit the investigation by quitting.

The last reason you give is a hoot. You really don't think someone who quits before the end of her first term as governor will be able to escape that very charge that ambition came before her job obligations?
 
19Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 23:54
Either she's being blackmailed

of course, another bit of fiction from you. i realize that in your masturbatory fantasies, Palin (and Coulter for that matter) can do no wrong, but the reality is there have been numerous ethical questions about her for quite some time now, and now amount of huffing and puffing and fictionalizing from you can change that.

she has decided to explore a presidential run without the inevitable charge that she was neglecting her job to follow her ambition

it's ludicrous. we just had an election 8 months ago. she has to resign NOW to explore a presidential election that is over three years from now??

never mind the fact that someone with her extremely limited experience in government could do herself a bit of good by actually staying in the office of governor.

she really has to be an extremely stupid woman, or simply surrounds herself with stupid advisors.
 
20Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 09:52
She is getting the same treatment any conservative would get who is anywhere near taking the party back from the Trotskyites.
 
21Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 09:59
She's also getting the same treatment as a hack.

It isn't so much about the treatment (of how much of it she deserves) as what she does about it. For you, she's a martyr and can do no wrong (nor has she ever). Your ability to manipulate what you see to match the reality in your head must take an enormous amount of mental energy.
 
22Boldwin
      ID: 26451820
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 10:05
I personally think she'd do fine with the slogan 'The media has their candidate and on the otherhand the American people have theirs'.
 
23Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 10:40
She is getting the same treatment any conservative would get who is anywhere near taking the party back from the Trotskyites.

wow are you delusional if you think she is "anywhere near taking the party back" from anything.

Then again, it's pretty obvious you're heavily suckered in by Vagi-Cons like Palin and Coulter, and as PD pointed out, she can do no wrong in yours.

I personally think she'd do fine with the slogan 'The media has their candidate and on the otherhand the American people have theirs'.

me too. i am 100 percent in favor of her doing that. anything that further splits her party and marginalizes moderates is obviously a very good thing.
 
24Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 12:16
I agree. The more she blames the media for her own obvious deficiencies as a candidate Americans find acceptable the better.
 
25Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 16:43
apparently, liberals aren't the only ones finding Palin's resignation curious and odd.

(Former Bush adviser Karl) Rove said, "I'm a little perplexed," since "she's not going to be able to escape media attention."

And (former Arkansas Gov. Mike) Huckabee deemed it "a risky strategy," adding that "if she did get out because of a feeling of getting chased, that's not going to stop if she stays in politics."

He also questioned the way the resignation was announced, saying, "You don't call a press conference to create questions, you call one to resolve them."
 
26Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 08:03
wow are you delusional if you think she is "anywhere near taking the party back" from anything. - Troll

There are very very few republicans who can draw a bigger crowd. The GOP bigshots, whose candidates can only draw 400 people to a campaign rally, know exactly how effective and popular she is when she draws many thousands.

The only thing preventing her from taking over the party is that the money men are on the other side. And since the money men couldn't stop Reagan from taking the party back, it isn't an open and shut case that she can be stopped either.
 
27Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 08:09
'Money men' would be those donors who also failed to show up and fund Fred Thompson when he was clearly the best candidate the republicans had in the stable last cycle.

At this point a grassroots funded and promoted movement of real conservatives is the only shot the republicans have because a slate of 'democrats lite' isn't gonna get them anywhere.
 
28Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 09:00
Only 800 more insults, and this thread will catch up with The Real Sarah Palin, Part 1.
 
29Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 09:11
Taking over the GOP and actually being able to win or do something of consequence are two different things. Being able to generate excitement among independents is what matters; Palin drove more independents away from the GOP ticket last November than she brought in and far less than Obama or McCain.
 
30Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 09:35
Only 800 more insults, and this thread will catch up with The Real Sarah Palin, Part 1

Don't worry, it'll still be way behind the Obama hate fest.
 
31Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 09:51
wow are you delusional if you think she is "anywhere near taking the party back" from anything. - Troll

There are very very few republicans who can draw a bigger crowd. The GOP bigshots, whose candidates can only draw 400 people to a campaign rally, know exactly how effective and popular she is when she draws many thousands.


thanks for insult the out of left field. it goes hand in hand with the continued claims of your own deep religious conviction. is it part of your genetic make up to respond like a kindergartner to someone you disagree with?

so Palin draws a big crowd. big deal. as you pointed out, it takes more than the ability to draw a big crowd - it takes, among other things, personal support, financial support, and the ability to reach out to the middle of your party and gain that as well.

and so far, she's done nothing to reach out to the moderates of HER OWN PARTY, much less moderates of the majority party, and all that won't amount to a hill of beans no matter how many people she draws to her speeches and rallies.

and to compare her to Reagan, quite frankly, is to insult Reagan. heck, not even yet comparing their body of work, Reagan had 8 years as governor of the most populous state, and won his party's nomination for president on his THIRD ATTEMPT.

Palin? 2 1/2 years as governor of the 47th most populous state (note, there are just 50 states), and one massive failure as her party's VP candidate.

and no amount of popularity among a fringe crowd, nor stomping up and down by you, nor childish insults from you, is going to change the fact that she is a long shot to "take the party back."
 
32Pancho Villa
      ID: 52616610
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:18
A good example of delusion can be found in this WSJ article.

Mr. Parnell said on "Fox News Sunday" that her decision was primarily prompted by her concern over $2 million a year the state has spent on records requests and the ethics inquiries.

"I think she used the word 'insane' in describing those costs," he said.


Are we to believe that Governor Palin is opposed to open and honest government? One of the things that makes our country superior to Russia, China and Cuba is the public's right to access records and to initiate ethics inquiries. Are there frivolous inquiries and claims sometimes? Of course, but what's the alternative?
Can we believe Governor Palin when

she said, having accomplished much of what she set out to, she would now pursue an unspecified leadership role "for those proud to be American, and those who are inspired by our ideals and won't deride them."

Access to public records and initiating ethics complaints are American ideals, yet she derides them to the point of calling them insane and silly.

If conservatives want a novelty candidate like Sarah Palin, then they should abandon this pretense of representing American ideals and admit that a cult of personality candidate worked with Barack Obama, so why not go with a winning strategy.

Meanwhile, a real conservative like Ron Paul is either ignored or villified by the likes of Sean Hannity for truly understanding the meaning of "defense" in the term national defense, and economic wizard and proven leader Mitt Romney is dismissed because the huge base of conservative Christians hate Mormons.

At this point a grassroots funded and promoted movement of real conservatives is the only shot the republicans have because a slate of 'democrats lite' isn't gonna get them anywhere.

You need to find a new name for your movement besides "real conservatives," unless you're pleased with your ever-shrinking exclusionary constituency willing to promote a politician over her head as Alaksa's governor as a serious candidate for President. "Real delusionaries" would be more apt.
 
33Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:09
Don't worry, it'll still be way behind the Obama hate fest.

Do you have a link to this Obama hate fest thread?
 
34Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:12
Size isn't everything, B7, despite what you might read about in those magazines...
 
35Nerveclinic
      ID: 35619612
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:19

B7 aside from the fact you like some of her political positions, is she really the kind of personality and brain you would want as President?

I'm just calling a spade a spade. A bit too much a light weight like Quayle to be the leader of the free world.

It would be the embarrasing leader syndrome all over again.



 
36Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:22
...a link to this Obama hate fest thread?

Take your pick.
 
37Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 13:31
Honestly, I don't know how anyone could read over the prepared statement from her resignation and decide that this is diction apropriate of a head of state - much less the USA.

Ezra Klein wrote over the weekend that, with such features as poor grammar, childish and mishappen use of punctuation and full words written in capital letters, it comes off as something written by an angry teenager.

I know, I know, I've gone and insulted Saint Sarah, and that in and of itself disqualifies anything I say on the topic.
 
38Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 14:54
My point is that The Real Sarah Palin thread is littered with insults. Not of any specific decision or policy, just pure insults. She's stupid.....50 times; she's an idiot....20 times. Etc. Whether she is or not; these are just pure insults. I cannot find a comparable thread with just out and out insults. One has to go back to the old Bush threads. The Obama threads are not hate fests.

One would think that if she is such a bad candidate, that Democrats would get out of the way, and beg her to run for something.

But, they do not.

Size isn't everything

I understand Permdude.
 
39Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 15:36
She's stupid.....50 times; she's an idiot....20 times. Etc. Whether she is or not; these are just pure insults. I cannot find a comparable thread with just out and out insults. One has to go back to the old Bush threads. The Obama threads are not hate fests.

come on now, seriously.

calling her stupid and and idiot pales in comparison to those who said Obama was a Muslim (note: being a Muslim is not an insult. But context in which attacks were used is a hate filled one), to those who questioned whether he was American to Boxman's repeated use of various "his highness" type of monikers to Coulter's intentionally racist repeated mentioned of Obama's middle name, and so on.

it's not just what is said, but how it is said, and a lot of what the right said about Obama was clearly filled with hate.

One would think that if she is such a bad candidate, that Democrats would get out of the way, and beg her to run for something.

i believe several of us here already have.
 
40Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:49
One of the things that makes our country superior to Russia, China and Cuba is the public's right to access records and to initiate ethics inquiries.

Yeah, so where's the birth certificate?
 
41sarge33rd
      ID: 33647616
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:50
I'll drink to that Tree. I cant help but hope she gets the RNC backing/nomination for pres in 2012, 2016, 2020, 2024, 2028, 2032, etc etc etc No surer way, of guaranteeing a DEM in the WH. Might be, the only DEM she could beat in that election, would be Michael Moore.
 
42Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 17:50
It would be the embarrasing leader syndrome all over again. - Nerve

If we could survive Obama we could survive Palin.
 
43Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:02
One would think that if she is such a bad candidate, that Democrats would get out of the way, and beg her to run for something.

This comment is stupid. Sorry if you feel insulted now but if it makes you feel any better, Tree's contention that he did just that is equally stupid. No one here denies her broad appeal to the political right. In fact far more often than the left has dismissed Palin as stupid, they have decried her broad appeal to the right, and what her effectivenes as a candidate says about that side of the political aisle. That such comments might happen to insult the candidate is not a good reason to withhold them. And if a pol who aspires to the national stage can't learn to live with being called stupid when she does and says stupid things, she's probably doing the right thing if she really intends to leave public office for good. The right thing for her and for us.

My point is that The Real Sarah Palin thread is littered with insults. Not of any specific decision or policy, just pure insults. She's stupid.....50 times; she's an idiot....20 times.

Well I'm glad to hear that you don't seem to take issue with criticizing a politician as "stupid" in response to their words and actions.

Regardless, in my skimming of that thread, it's my finding that most of the uses of those words come as the writer reacts to something she said or did on the campaign trail. We're not allowed to react to her suggestion that left-leaning regions are something seperate from what she refers to as the 'pro-America parts of the country" by calling her "stupid" for saying it?

Anyway, a search of that thread for the word "stupid" yields one, perhaps two posts in the 866-post-long Sarah Palin thrad in which a poster used that word to describe her, and perhaps one or two more where a pundit opinion describing her as stupid is pasted into a post.

"Moron" yields no results.

She was called "idiot" in 5 posts.

"Imbecile" yields no results.

"Fool" yields no results.

"Jackass" yields no results.

What tough treatment from a forum that is 90%+ leftists! And that's a touch different from your reading of the thing, huh? Did you just search those words and counted the number of times they came up and thought you could get away with a claim that every one was an ad hominem insult? Did you even do that much work?

Obama has had every aspect of his character criticized and flat-out lied about. How many times was Palin called anything so viscious as a terrorist? Palin herself made sport of pointing out that he "pals around with terrorists". Has Palin ever been falsely accused of a familial and insidiously operational relationship with a foreign despot? How about a manchurian candidate? A traitor? How much was made of Palin's half-sister who she grew up with and who was denied a share of a big inheritance which Sarah received and now lives hand to mouth? Was it as much as was made of Obama's half-brother in Kenya and Aunt in Boston, both of whom Obama had met only once or twice in his life? Was Palin's deceased mother attacked as an anti-American Communist radical or any rightist equivolent? Was Palin ever called a racist? How much was made of Palin's very questionable religious ties compared with Obama's?

How many derisive nicknames are used by pundits to describe Palin, such as "The One" and "The Great Leader" and "Messiah", which are among the less insulting nicknames I've heard.

This is a ridiculous double standard. For the love of God maybe the stupidest thing I've heard is this absurd notion that Palin was in any way treated unfairly by th emedia and the political left after what Obama was put through last year.
 
45Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:34
For crying out loud MITH, he is so embarassed by the spectacle of the sychophantic MSM stroking him that at the last press corp dinner he had to make jokes about being in bed with them and how cozy he felt being at a gathering of the people who made him a star.

And you are going to cry for him and all the media harrassment? Never again mention reality-based.
 
46Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:38
Don't give me this prima donna selective outrage act. I've made this very point many numerous times in the past year. And in the fact of countless examples you remain in ignorant denial. Mostly because you have espoused just about everly last one of those fraudulant and baseless attacks.

But heaven forbid someone call Sarah an idiot out loud!
 
47Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:42
The difference is that I am the one calling him a bat-eared marxist born in Kenya. Not the MSM.
 
48Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 18:46
Now that you've decided to change the topic of the conversation, sure it is.

And the MSM has been plenty happy to refer to him as a Kenyan Marxist, even if the integrity of your ridiculous fantasy worldview depends on your subscribing to distorted meanings of phrases like mainstream media.
 
49Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:16
Balderdash.
 
50Building 7
      ID: 475442619
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:18
"Moron" yields no results.

#393 Palin is clueless....... She's really ignorant and seemingly a moron........ cos that person simply does not know and cannot seemingly learn.

I'm not going to argue with you Mr. Mith. You're right , there are no insults in the Palin thread and the Obama threads are nothing but insults of Obama. And Big Media has been more fair to Palin than Obama. I'm sure everyone will agree with that.

What tough treatment from a forum that is 90%+ leftists! (At least you finally admit that....and I wonder why that is, given the national percentage is about 50-50.)And that's a touch different from your reading of the thing, huh? (I quit reading that thread because it was just a bunch of insults)Did you just search those words and counted the number of times they came up and thought you could get away with a claim that every one was an ad hominem insult? Did you even do that much work? (It was an estimate, Albert. What idiot is going to waste a bunch of time doing that? Oh, never mind.)

 
51Pancho Villa
      ID: 52616610
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:20
Yeah, so where's the birth certificate?

There are court cases, just like with Palin, concerning Obama's birth certificate. It's interesting that you feel Obama should acquiesce to releasing information requested by the public, but are sympathetic when Palin complains about the same thing.

I am the one calling him a bat-eared marxist born in Kenya. Not the MSM.

It would be completely irresponsible for any real news agency, MSM or not, to make a claim with no factual basis. That's reserved for the National Enquirer and WorldNetDaily.

 
52Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:22
#49: I agree.

Palin is called "stupid" and "crazy" because of her actions (including her lies). And the proof that the MSM is complicit: Obama isn't called stupid.

WTF?

Is this what the Right has lowered itself into being? Really--is Sarah "The Media Made Me Do It" Palin really what you are striving for as a party?

You're welcome to those results, if so. You saw what happened in November.
 
53Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:25
I'm not the one who bragged that he would come in with the most transparent of governments. Obama is, all the while denying the most basic disclosure.
 
54Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:27
#53: What, exactly, is "the most basic disclosure?"

And you simply can't take criticism of the Obama Administration and use that as some kind of cover of Sarah Palin. Particularly transparency, of all things! Man, you picked the wrong issue with which to tout Palin as a future candidate.
 
56Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:34
You know perfectly well what 'the most basic disclosure' means.

Proof that he qualifies to even run for president.
 
57Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:36
I'm sorry, but you are a wacko birther on that issue.

Out of the mainstream. And unable to analyze as a result, other than acknowledging (as with Palin) what you like so that the rest of us can avoid them.

But hey, keep pushing that issue.
 
58Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:41
Since you are willing to allow him to violate the constitution on that matter, let's skip to the end. How many terms are you willing to allow him?
 
59Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:05
Jeez, what a loony you are, Baldwin. One doesn't violate the constitution simply because you don't accept the evidence.
 
60Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:16
So what other reason does Obama have for spending zillions in legal fees preventing the release of that document? I'm really curious. Is it his 'principled opaqueness'?
 
61Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:20
Back in Palin-land, her lawyer states black is white and white is black. Er, actually, he states that Palin is engaging in some self-sacrifice in her resignation.

Apparently he didn't get the memo. This isn't a sacrifice at all, but an opportunity for a live fish.
 
62Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:25
#393

Whoops, you're right, B7, add 1 instance of Palin being called a moron. That makes 8 total posts, not 7, as I had initially said. We are that much closer to the 60 or so you claimed.

At least you finally admit that

When have I ever denied this fact or suggested otherwise. I've open;y wished there were more conservatives here for years.

It was an estimate, Albert. What idiot is going to waste a bunch of time doing that? Oh, never mind.

In what school is a 750% overestimation less worthy of criticism than missing 1 out of 8 in a more precise attempt at a number?

Yes, the media and also the right side of this forum and frankly vocal elements of the political right everywhere were positively vicious in their criticism of Obama. First because of the patent absurdity of the baseless claims, second because of the relentless ferocity of the campaign to dehumanize and demionize him to the point of literal rage incitement and third because of the political right was even happy to employ both implicit and explicit racism to further those ends.

Were you in a cave last year or do you just cover up and sing lalalala whenever people bring this stuff up? There was almost an entire month last year when you couldn't turn on your TV for 10 minutes without seeing at least 4 of the same 6 Jeremiah Wright quotes we kept seeing over and over. At the height, those 6 (ok maybe 7 - you know how estimations are...) quotes, none of them newer that a several years old, received literally comparable media attention to what Michael Jackson's death has received in a similar amount of time - including from the leftist media.

Really, you didn't hear one McCain/Palin supporter after another proudly explain to people with video cameras outside of those campaign events that he is a terrorist? Where do these people get these ideas? Not from Limbaugh and Hannity? You didn't see Sarah miss a beat during one speech as a reveler cried out "terrorist!" as she spoke about Obama? Of course I was happy to credit McCain with how he reacted to and dealt with such outbursts. But I'm sure that considering the difference is just another example of undue criticism of Palin.

How many regular folks at Obama events did you see make comparable statements about Palin? If the leftist media was so ruthless then where was all the psychotic anti-McCain/Palin rage at Obama campaign events?

Open your eyes.
 
63Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 20:32
What tough treatment from a forum that is 90%+ leftists! (At least you finally admit that....and I wonder why that is, given the national percentage is about 50-50.)

actually, that is because many of the posters here from the Right stopped posting for a variety of reasons.

Since you are willing to allow him to violate the constitution on that matter, let's skip to the end. How many terms are you willing to allow him?

i dunno. as someone who refused to even vote against him, how many terms are YOU willing to allow him.

onto the more serious issue - that of the continued loony attacks like yours from the right. That's exactly to the point - the attacks on Obama have questioned his core - his citizenship.

this issue of Obama's citizenship has been settled with perfectly legal and accepted documents - except for those who don't have a lick of sense and refuse to accept those legal documents simply because they don't want to.
 
64Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 15:04
From the WSJ legal blog:
On Monday, in the wake of news that Sarah Palin was stepping down as Alaska’s governor, we did a post on her legal fees. The post was titled: “Are Legal Fees at the Root of Palin’s Departure?” and in it we mentioned statements made Sunday by Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell indicating that she owed some $500,000 in lawyer fees.

Well, early this morning, a note from Sarah Palin’s personal lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, landed in our in-box. We’re typically not ones for reprinting emails in full, but we thought Van Flein’s note worthy of making an exception. Feel free, as always, to note your comments, thoughts, responses below.

It reads:
Dear Mr. Jones:

I probably have some additional insight for your readers.

Governor Palin championed ethics reform in Alaska and the current law was enacted at her initiative. Our state has had, unfortunately, some problems with legislative ethics, with several legislators convicted under federal law (notwithstanding subsequent events that may require re-trials–the subject of another story). Thus, Alaska needs strong ethics laws, and ethical people to serve in government.

During and after Governor Palin’s national campaign last fall, the Executive Branch Ethics Act was essentially hijacked by motivated partisans who saw fit to file one complaint after another for such monumental “ethics violations” as: wearing a jacket; giving interviews to reporters, traveling out of state to give a speech, having her official portrait used for a state sponsored seafood marketing program, and on and on. The abuse of the Act has in all likelihood caused a loss in public confidence of a very important law that was intended to address real ethics issues. All complaints ruled on so far (15) have concluded that Governor Palin has not violated any law, in letter or spirit. There is still one complaint pending regarding her legal trust fund to help pay her legal fees. The complainant has asserted that such a legal defense fund is itself unethical.

Because an ethics complaint by definition involves an allegation that a public official abused state office by promoting a personal gain over state interests, when such a complaint is filed, the subject of the complaint cannot use state attorneys for their personal defense. Indeed, doing so would likely result in a meritorious ethics complaint. That does not mean the state could not indemnify a state employee after the investigation and results are completed if it is determined that there was no merit to the complaint and the costs were incurred as a result state service. But initially the subject of the complaint, if he or she desires representation, must retain personal counsel. This is all the more imperative for the Governor, where the Attorney General is barred as a matter of law from any involvement in a complaint against the Governor and the matter is handled by an independent Personnel Board and special counsel.

Because of the abuse of the Ethics Act and the seemingly endless assembly line of questionable complaints, in addition to the fees incurred during the Troopergate investigation, the Governor has incurred substantial attorney’s fees in the range of $500,000. I recognize that by New York standards this is a modest legal bill, but it is substantial up here. The Personnel Board released information that it has spent about $300,000 in legal fees on its side of the aisle. As the lawyers reading this know, while it is easy to file a complaint, it takes research and fact investigation to address the allegations and rebut them with analytical precision.

As for those reading this who want to know if there were legal problems pending that served as a catalyst for the resignation, the answer is “no.” Indeed, speculation about alleged embezzlement, kickbacks, and imminent federal indictments were so wide spread, and were crossing over into the mainstream media, that we took the calculated risk of actually addressing the issue, and the FBI took the unprecedented step of confirming that there never was any such investigation, there is no such investigation, and that there were no plans for any investigation. I continue to maintain hope that political discourse will return to issues that are the subject of fair and vigorous debate, as opposed to false implications of serious criminality, jokes about raping a teenage girl, or abusive legal machinations intended to create headlines and impose personal financial costs. I say that relative to all public servants, Democrat or Republican, that they be judged on their actions in office, not on the clothes they supposedly purchased, the shoes they wore, the actions of their family, the statements of their preacher, or other essentially irrelevant matters.

Governor Palin determined that she had accomplished her major goals in the first two and half years of her administration (which is true, she enacted ethics reform, ear mark reform, pushed through a revised petroleum tax structure highly beneficial to the state, reached consensus with oil producers that resulted in new oil well drilling at Point Thomson, and was the only governor in the last 30 years to take concrete action on getting a major gas pipeline built as opposed to the prior administrations who did much to talk about it, but otherwise took no real action.) The Governor has created a new political reality and is changing the battlefield to pursue her goals of energy independence for America, rational tax policies, improved national security and more efficient and smaller government. I suspect you may see her in the future.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this with your readers.

Thomas V. Van Flein, Esq.
Clapp, Peterson, Van Flein,
Tiemessen & Thorsness, LLC
Shame on the posters on this forum who participated in spreading those unfounded politically motivated false charges and false rumors. Your efforts have made a state with a long history of being ethically challenged, even less likely to overcome that history.

And you efforts have allowed those very same ethically challenged corrupt politicians to drive out of office the author of the ethics laws that make their corruption more difficult.
 
65Seattle Zen
      ID: 2566811
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 15:14
This is hilarious. She authored an Ethics bill that was so poorly conceived that any tinfoil hat-wearing freak can file a complaint which would cost the accused tens of thousands of their own dollars.

AND SHE IS PROUD OF THIS LAW!

Governor Palin determined that she had accomplished her major goals in the first two and half years of her administration (which is true, she enacted ethics reform

I also find it funny how the attorney flippantly mentions that the $500k total includes the Troopergate investigation, you know, the one that did find improprieties committed by the Governor.

Shame on John McCain for thinking that the Wasilla city manager was qualified for national office.
 
66Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 15:23
Shame on the posters on this forum who participated in spreading those unfounded politically motivated false charges and false rumors.

That is freaking hilarious as well. Her lawyer's note is riddled with outright lies. Shame on members of this forum for telling truth to power.

Her lawyer claims she is 15 for 15. Here's a list of the ethics inquiries (18, with 3 pending). As Zen notes, the very first one found that Palin violated state law. Ooops!

What a riot--this governor was "hounded" from office. I expect to see Baldwin's future threads airing the complaints of mob businessmen complaining they can't do their business because of constant FBI surveillance.
 
67DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 15:27
To be fair (in the interest of a kinder, gentler me) and to clarify, it appears those words were the lawyers, not Boldwin's.

Of course, you're basically right. "Look! All the ones that didn't bear much investigating were dismissed!" (Of course, the ones that are still being investigated, because they have some merit, haven't been decided yet.)
 
68Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 15:35
Fair enough, DW. I thought Baldwin posted the whole thing to also direct those words at this forum as well, but that isn't a fair projection to make.
 
69Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 17:52
This is hilarious. She authored an Ethics bill that was so poorly conceived that any tinfoil hat-wearing freak can file a complaint which would cost the accused tens of thousands of their own dollars. - SZ

Sounds like just about every law on the books. Legal harrassmant is somehow rare in your neck of the woods? She could have predicted that level of legal mischief?

If you want to support vigorous penalties for legal harrassment I'm all for it but being a liberal I doubt you are interested in making the frivolous plaintiff pay the other sides' legal bills. Unless you are I don't see that you have a leg to stand on here.

 
70Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 18:42
When you are the most secretive governor in Alaskan history, she shouldn't be surprised that the calls for ethical oversight comes in.

She's become a whiny self-martyr, Baldwin. You want to go down with that ship you are welcome to it. But enough with reprinting all her talking points--they don't make sense and are internally inconsistent.
 
71Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 19:19
I'll be the judge of that. Rather than take the word of someone deep in cognitive dissonance for the last couple years. Of course it doesn't make sense to you.
 
72Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 19:42
Then your judgement ability is broken.

Palin, who has the ability to raise oodles of cash for her legal defense fund, quits and offers virtually no reason during her resignation. Her lawyer, in a mistake-filled day-after talk, implies she was falling on her sword to save taxpayer money. Hooey.

Right wing blogger Dan Riehl has a good piece on Palin, telling it like it is.
 
73Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 21:52
While I don't know why you thot that piece was particularly damaging, I of course like Ann Coulter's take much better.
 
74Seattle Zen
      ID: 2763290
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 01:32


Off to join Admiral Stockdale on the Island of Failed Vice Presidential Candidates. It's in the Aleutians.
 
75Boldwin
      ID: 25282121
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 06:04
Put up or shut up. Tell us how soon she drops off your radar? I am sure she will some year no longer be your favorite subject. Or were you just planning on stalking her forever?
 
76Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 08:42
Being a news story and being politically significant are two different things, of course. The best Palin can ever hope for is a Senate seat. Or maybe she can ride the coattails of a more likable candidate and secure a cabinet seat or an ambassadorship (gasp).
 
77Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 09:04
It sounds like Ann Coulter has read The Real Sarah Palin thread at rotoguru.com. Maybe she gets her material from the liberals at this forum.
 
78sarge33rd
      ID: 456598
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 09:08
Or were you just planning on stalking her forever?

You stalk Clinton, some 8+ years after he left office. Why so defensive about this half-witted former beauty queen who cant help but seek the bright lights, despite her inability to even SOUND reasonable.
 
79Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 10:48
queue the "The Clintons left behind a trail of bodies" response...
 
80Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:10
I'm not the defensive one. You guys are fighting her tooth and nail, no holds barred, life or death, no blow too low...

...all the while proclaiming her politically dead and buried. If she's gone what is energizing you?
 
81Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:14
People like you who seem convinced she is destined for great things.
 
82Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:50
um, people are mocking her for quitting, while her supporters think she somehow has enough experience *and knowledge to be president.

her desire to put herself and her family in the spotlight is part of the reason she gets the treatment she does when she does things like this.
 
83Seattle Zen
      ID: 30612912
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 13:13
Put up or shut up. Tell us how soon she drops off your radar? I am sure she will some year no longer be your favorite subject. Or were you just planning on stalking her forever?

This surely isn't addressed to me. She has not ever made my top ten subjects and you need to look up the definition of "stalking". I reserved judgment on her for about two weeks after McCain's announcement, by then it was apparent to all that she was destined for county government middle management.

The fact that so many Republicans think of her as the best spokesperson in their party is hilarious. Then she quits her first real elected position claiming she has been hounded by ethical complaints. She should have said, "I'm proud of my ethics bill, it drove an under qualified, ill tempered, unsatisfied ethically-challenged star gazer from the Governor's office."

She was nominated to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office just a few short months ago. She deserves every bit of derision she's garnered. Yes, she is every bit as bad as Admiral Stockdale. I doubt I'll mention her again, until the next double digit IQ with Vice Presidential aspirations comes along and he/she gets the "Next Sarah Palin" moniker.
 
84Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 14:09
i do like this quote from her attorney, from this article, about how she is "not a quitter."

On Monday, her personal lawyer also spoke about her resignation.

No legal "bombshell" or personal scandal lies behind Palin's resignation, but off-color jokes by talk-show host David Letterman contributed to her decision to step down, Thomas Van Flein said.

The governor needed a break after being "on duty now for two and a half years solid," he said.


oh, gosh! she was the governor of one of the least populous states, and now she needs a break after 2 1/2 years.

i have no doubt being the governor of any state is stressful.

i also have no doubt that someone who needs a break after being governor of Alaska for 2 1/2 years is without a doubt, extremely unqualified to be the President of the United States.
 
85Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 14:23
Given the amount of time she spent campaigning for the Vice Presidency, you really need to deduct that from her total. Hard to say she was "on duty" when she was giving speeches across the country for a couple of months there for another job.
 
86Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 23:36
Actually you add that to her total, not deduct it.
 
87DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 23:57
Wait, so my boss will pay me for interviewing at other jobs while on the clock? I love America!


Surely you didn't mean that.
 
88astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 00:27
Boldwin meant it...

That doesn't mean it was well thought out.

 
89DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 00:39
Touche.
 
90Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 01:53
Actually you add that to her total, not deduct it.

whatever. even so, you're going to still sit there and say that someone who couldn't even handle 30 months as governor of a sparsely-populated states - 2 1/2 months of which were spent running for VP of the US - is qualified to serve as POTSA?

regardless of the reasons she quit, the fact remains that she did quit, barely halfway into her FIRST TERM.

why on earth would any sane person believe someone who can't handle the rigors of her job now be able to handle the rigors of one infinitely more challenging?
 
91Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 02:03
Is there an easier executive position in the country than Republican governor of Alaska? The toughest decision must be "what color checks will we use this year to send out the oil royalty payments to the taxpayers?"

 
92Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 06:55
Yeah, raise a family, save the republican party from the neocon takeover, keep Alaska from falling back into the hands of the former republican kleptocracy who used to run that state, fend off the most bloodthirsty media I've ever seen...

Not quite the podunk hammock I keep hearing described by you guys. To hear you tell it, she bakes a caribou in the morning, poses at the startingline of the Iditarod in the afternoon for a photo-op and watches soaps and reruns the rest of the afternoon in between shopping her white trash catelogue and gossiping on the phone.

If she wants to focus on saving the republican party more power to her. Maybe the biggest state in the union is too small for her.
 
93sarge33rd
      ID: 2616107
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 08:16
save the republican party from the neocon takeover

roflmfao And here I thought it was AC you gave way too much credit. Your vaunted GOP, was lost to the neocons some time ago Boldy. It wasnt "saved" by Miss Sarah, and it is FAR from being "saved" even as debate (laughingly) her merits.
 
94Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 09:04
Maybe the biggest state in the union is too small for her.

Ha. Does that make Stephen Harper more important than President Obama?
 
95Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 09:32
If she wants to focus on saving the republican party more power to her.

The party is more important than her committment to her constituents? Save the party, indeed. If a Democratic governor pulled the same crap there would be no end to the derision from Baldwin on the point.

Wonder what she learned in her half a term that can now save the GOP? She found the magic bullet?
 
96Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 09:45
She found the magic bullet?

Conservative principles. It turns out that republicans reaching out to the campaign funders of the world as they exist today, had forgotten or couldn't sell conservative principles to the George Soros' of the world.

Thus leaving the field clear for her.

Not the whole story because there are other conservatives, but the media and the funders make sure that we never hear from the Tancredo's of the world. Somehow she slipped thru their censorship cracks.
 
97Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 10:06
you keep dancing around it Baldwin, but even if THE JOB SHE RAN FOR AND WAS ELECTED TO DO INCLUDED IN ITS DESCRIPTION THAT SHE raise a family, save the republican party from the neocon takeover, keep Alaska from falling back into the hands of the former republican kleptocracy who used to run that state, (and) fend off the most bloodthirsty media I've ever seen, does it concern you in the least bit that if she couldn't run Alaska while doing the things you described, that there is no way she could run the United States while doing the same things?

i think that's the point here - while she's donning a Supermom Savior of the GOP cape, she apparently can't even run Alaska while doing so.

What makes you think she can also be President if she can't even be Governor?
 
98Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 10:12
I'm not altogether clear why Baldwin would continue to champion someone with "conservative principles" (whichever ones those are this week) who can't actually apply them. Is he seriously under the delusion that one can hold some governing political principles, be unable to use them in practice, and thereby save their political party?

There is a word for people who hold pure political principles and yet can't apply them in the real world. I'm sure Baldwin will come around to it soon enough.
 
99Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 11:28
PD - it's all about T&A for Baldwin at this point. i think that's pretty clear.
 
100Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 11:39
No, I don't think so.

Baldwin just measures "success" much differently than the rest of the world.
 
101Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 16:56
Sarah Palin decides to flex some policy muscle on cap-and-trade. Conor Clarke slaps her around a bit on it.

As has also been pointed out, Palin's piece (ostensibly about cap and trade) neglects to use any of the following words: pollution, emissions, carbon, or global warming.
 
102Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:14
That could be because the whole point of the excersize is global taxation and control, not those four worlds.
 
103Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:19
But in her case it was that she summed up those four words under the word 'environment'.

Summing things up is called lying around here for no good reason.
 
104Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:44
no, lying is called lying.

summing things up is called summing things up.

omitting key facts, altering the order of paragraphs to attempt to prove a point - that's lying.

but that's already been established, even by the lurkers here who chimed in on that whopper you tried to tell.
 
105Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 21:57
This is like an article about the Fed talking only about Jews.

Because, you know, it is all about Jews and their money...
 
106Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 23:54
Tree you devious scumbag.

Newspaper articles begin with a brief summary of the whole article for the benefit those like you who won't read the whole thing.

In the piece you are dogging me about the writer simply put Obama's answer to the charges right after the introductory summary and then went into the details of the article.

I put Obama's answer to the charges at the end of my peice just like the writer put it at the end of his summary. It didn't change the meaning or logic or anything and wasn't lying in any way shape or form. You are lower than low to call that lying.

You are a disgusting pig of a troll.
 
107Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 01:11
Baldwin - i'll say it again. i was far from the only person - from regular poster to lurker - who felt you were dishonest with that posting. keep denying it - it doesn't change the facts...although you tried.
 
108Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 01:36
Baldwin, what you did was wrong. This is a forum full of intelligent people. You don't need to rearrange paragraphs for our benefit. We all read full articles, especially when its only a few paragraphs.

You don't need to rearrange paragraphs for your own benefit. Or what you think is our benefit.
 
109Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 10:43
I'm perfectly within rights to try and cobble together a coherent summary out of a long article. It takes a lot more than pointing out I didn't copy it all in order to prove I was trying to change the meaning of the writer.

Furthermore I am not obligated to agree with and highlight everything the writer wrote.

I don't agree with any entire article in the NYT, most likely, but unlike you guys who can't even read one paragraph of WND without going into convulsions, I can actually pull something interesting and useful out of sources I disagree with.
 
110Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 11:21
The fact that WND causes problems for the Left while the NYT doesn't cause problems for you is probably more due to WND than anything else, Baldwin.
 
111Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 11:28
I'm perfectly within rights to try and cobble together a coherent summary out of a long article. It takes a lot more than pointing out I didn't copy it all in order to prove I was trying to change the meaning of the writer.

Furthermore I am not obligated to agree with and highlight everything the writer wrote.

I don't agree with any entire article in the NYT, most likely, but unlike you guys who can't even read one paragraph of WND without going into convulsions, I can actually pull something interesting and useful out of sources I disagree with.


exercising *my* rights, per Baldwin, what he meant from the above was:

I'm perfectly within rights to try to change the meaning of the writer.

Furthermore I am not obligated to pull something interesting, coherent, and useful out of any article.


-------------------

i mean, that is what you meant, right? i didn't do anything other than change the order of what you said and simply cobbled together a summary, which is no different than what you did, and claim was perfectly within your rights to do.
 
112Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 15:01
What morons you and anyone who respects you are.

I also am free to pull all the scriptures that bear on a certain subject together in one place.

Which is entirely different than scrambling sentences.

And no I don't have to list those scriptures by the order they appear in the Bible for them to retain their meaning.
 
113sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 15:14
True enough. But neither can you rightfully maintain that a 60% distribution to area "X" is out of line and indicative of politcal power playing, when area "X" has ALWAYS seen a 60% distribution pattern.

IOW, a continuing distribution as has been historically true, is NOT evidenciary of current wrong doing. Regardless of how hard you try to make it out to be such.
 
114Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 15:59
I also am free to pull all the scriptures that bear on a certain subject together in one place.

Which is entirely different than scrambling sentences.


and is also entirely different than scrambling paragraphs, which is what you were guilty of.

A NEWS STORY IS NOT A COLLECTION OF SCRIPTURES.

you intentionally omitted key paragraphs and facts from a new story, and changed the order of the reporter's story. that's all i did to your post - omitted key words and facts, and changed the order of your post.

you left out numerous paragraphs where outside observers said there was no funny business at work, because you wanted to prove that there was, indeed, funny business at work.

that's the key component right there - you left in certain information and moved it around, while leaving out other information that easily refuted the point you were trying to make.

it honestly boggles my mind that you don't see anything wrong or unethical with what you did.
 
115sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 16:16
back on topic:

Majority of Reoublicans do not think Palin is qualified for the Presidency

Only 33 percent of Republicans questioned in a CBS News survey released Monday night say that Palin would have the ability to serve effectively as president. Last fall, 71 percent of registered Republicans felt that way.

 
116Boldwin
      ID: 467910
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 23:53
It boggles my mind just how dishonest you are, Tree. Besides the stupidity.

Paragraphs are complete thots. You can switch one in front of the other without changing their meaning. Unlike jumbling random phrases into random sentences like you tried to equate.
 
117Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 01:01
your constant use of words like "stupid" and "moron" goes a long way in showing how weak your defense is in this case.

You can switch one in front of the other without changing their meaning.

probably.

however, in this case, you intentionally changed the meaning, and you're conveniently ignoring the part of the argument that you intentionally left out vital facts in you presentation of the material because they would have invalidated your whole point.

it's almost sad watching you destroy what little bit of credibility you might have actually had.

-----

Sarge - nice link. if only 33 percent of Republicans think she's qualified, i'm curious as to the overall percentage of americans who think she's qualified.
 
118boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:18
Sarge - nice link. if only 33 percent of Republicans think she's qualified, i'm curious as to the overall percentage of americans who think she's qualified.

I am going to guess 10%. Which seems high to me.
 
119Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:27
She's qualified to be President. She's 35, natural born citizen, etc. She's arguably more qualified than Obama.
 
120biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:40
She's eligible. That doesn't mean she's qualified.

Perhaps if you hate government and are looking to continue Bush's destruction of our government infrastructure, she's qualified to do that.
 
121Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 09:40
Eligible and qualified are not the same things. Obama is the sitting President. I'd say he's qualified.
 
122Pancho Villa
      ID: 5967169
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 10:09
Palin's piece (ostensibly about cap and trade) neglects to use any of the following words: pollution, emissions, carbon, or global warming.

Her husband is a long distance snowmobile racer, an activity that she heartily supports and endorses. It would be hard to think of a more irresponsible waste of fossil fuels.

The fuel for those snowmobiles should be taxed triple than fuel used for regular commerce.
 
123DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 10:28
"Her husband is a long distance snowmobile racer, an activity that she heartily supports and endorses. It would be hard to think of a more irresponsible waste of fossil fuels."

One acronym: NASCAR.
 
124boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 14:44
actually a Saturday in fall I can only imagine the amount of fossil fuels used to drive around the country in RVs to college football games.
 
125Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 15:05
Going down together:


 
126sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 15:08
As a Dem, I certainly hope she not only runs again, but wins the Rep nomination too. Not much else would be more certain to assure a Dem WH 2012-2016 than that would.
 
127Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 15:24
So you admit to being a democrat now?

 
128sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 15:27
Admit? Now? When have I ever denied it?

I've admitted that I have voted Rep in the past, and probably will again in the future on a case-by-case basis. But unless/until the fundamentalist ultra-conservative rightwing lets go of the Rep party; I dont want them in the WH.
 
129boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:02
But unless/until the fundamentalist ultra-conservative rightwing lets go of the Rep party;

Is this actually true on a case by case bases? Is mit romney and fundamentalist ultra-conservative rightwingist?
 
130Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:11
I remember your claiming that you would vote for the party out of power. i.e. if Dems contolled the president and the house, you would vote for a repub senator. Gridlock vote. I guess that went out the window when you voted for obama.
 
131sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:28
Are you unable to read/comprehend what I said above?

Further, prior to the Rep Party naming it's nominee; I named 3 candidates that I was considering. 2, were Republican. McCain, Paul and Obama.

Paul was unelectable withoout the Rep nomination.

McCain lost my vote, when he named Sarah Palin as running mate.

Defacto vote then, went to Obama. (Though I did state and would have, voted McCain had HC gotten the Dem nod.)
 
132Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 17:42
Are you unable to read/comprehend what I said above?

According to your gridlock strategy that you were claiming in prior posts, you would have not voted for the republican candidate, period. The democrats had sewn up the house and senate by all accounts.
 
133sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 17:44
Your memory is somewhat clouded. I said I "tend" to vote that way; not necessarily that I automatically vote that way.

WTF is your problem anyway, with a registered Dem, voting for the Dem candidate?
 
134Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 17:45
Messed that up.

According to your gridlock strategy that you were claiming in prior posts, you would have not voted for the democrat candidate, period. The democrats had sewn up the house and senate by all accounts.
 
135sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 17:46
seems to me, I had this same discussion with Box at the time.
 
136Building 7
      ID: 126371618
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:41
Had to drive home. I thought you were claiming to be a neutral voter. So never mind.

So you were going to vote for McCane , but Palin was so bad a VP choice you changed your vote to Obama. You threw out your preferred candidate and your gridlock strategy because Palin was so bad. You are aware the VP doesn't really do that much. And there's only a one in ten chance the president wil die. You must really think she's bad.
 
137Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:47
My recollection of sarge's reasons were not that he was worried Palin would be President, but that the choice of Palin by McCain called into question his judgement.

I'll leave it to sarge to verify this or not. But I think it misunderstands Obama's surge the last month of the election cycle to say that people were only worried that Palin would become President. That was always a worry, of course, but as people began to realize how bad Palin was the choice of her as a running mate began to erode confidence in McCain.
 
138sarge33rd
      ID: 17671620
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 21:07
...but as people began to realize how bad Palin was the choice of her as a running mate began to erode confidence in McCain.

Pretty much says it all right there.
 
139Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 15:19
Vanity Fair proofs and copyedits Palin's speech for her.
 
140Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 15:45
You know the republican's strongest candidate by who the MSM attacks the hardest.

You know who should be the republican's strongest candidate by who they ignore the hardest.
 
141Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 15:48
Corollary:

You know the conservative pundits with the most devastating arguments by who liberals hate the most.

You know the conservative website with the most useful information by the ones liberals trash the most.
 
142Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 15:53
I think we have completely different definitions of the words "devastating," "useful," and "strongest."

But I sincerely hope that you continue to use the things you've laid out as guidelines in choosing candidates. I really do.
 
143Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 17:15
You know the republican's strongest candidate by who the MSM conservatives attacks the hardest.

fixed that for ya.
 
144Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 23:42
more potential ethics violation for Palin...

shocking, i know.
 
145Frick
      ID: 4945458
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 08:37
I hope Palin doesn't run, all she would do is put herself deeply into debt. She has no chance of being elected. She was the main reason I didn't want to vote for McCain. Religious psychos might appeal to a vocal minority, but the silent majority would never vote for her.

She's probably made more money from appearance fees in the last 18 months then she would have made as an Alaskan politician. She should retire and fade away. Sadly I don't see it happening. Even more sadly the extreme right will fund her significantly to keep her afloat.
 
146Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 08:47
The problem Frick is that attitudes and ideals that used to be associated with "the extreme right" have very much infiltrated the the mainstream politics of that side of the aisle.

Her support base is far broader than a small vocal minority.
 
147sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 09:35
She was the main reason I didn't want to vote for McCain.

I can echo that with two minor changes to the statement....

She was the main reason I didn't want to vote for McCain.
 
148Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 13:53
"We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt."

Joe Biden, July, 2009
 
149Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 13:59
Biden is a bit of a blowhard. And the point he was making was phrased artlessly at best.

That shouldn't keep people from looking at what he was actually trying to say, which is that the government is needed, in times like this, to step in.

In fact, government spending is what finally got us out of the Great Depression.
 
150Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 14:47
In fact, government spending is what finally got us out of the Great Depression. - PD

Or prolonged it until WWII, depending on whether you look at the results.
 
151sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 15:02
It got us OUT of the Great Depression. Put people to work, put some money in the pockets of those who would spend it, put money back into circulation, created consumer demand/confidence.
 
152Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 15:20
We’re going to go bankrupt as a nation,” Biden said.

“Now, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about, Joe? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, that's what I’m telling you.

He sounds pretty clear to me.
 
153biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 15:32
What exactly do you not get?

You seem pretty gung-ho on business. Name one that didn't have to invest any money before they showed a profit.

Obviously the analogy isn't perfect, but the concept is exactly the same.

This idea isn't novel or even particularly controversial.
 
154Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 15:41
Or prolonged it until WWII, depending on whether you look at the results.

World War II spending got us out of the Great Depression. What don't you understand about that, Baldwin?

B7: Stop trying to read too much into the mangled sentence Biden said, and look at what he actually meant. (the mangling is because of the dual nature of the word "we" meaning both the government and the nation). Government needs to spend to open up markets and credits. This isn't really even controversial. Without government intervention businesses start failing wholesale.
 
155Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 16:22
Like I say, send everyone a check for one million dollars. Problem solved.

Ask anyone that has gone bankrupt, if they could have avoided it by just spending more money.

If GM just would have spent more money, they could have avoided bankruptcy. All they had to do was listen to biliruben. Who knew it was so easy.
 
156sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 16:27
just have to overstate things huh?

Business revenue doesn't grow (with a VERY few exceptions) without investments in production, marketing, distribution, etc etc. Spend money, to make money; is by and large the model of American Capitalism. Why would it necessarily be different, for the government?
 
157Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 16:48
B7: I'm not sure if you are intentionally being dense here, or really choose not to understand. If you have a problem with the economics of the stimulus then maybe you can spell it out in that thread.

You seem content, like a child, to simply repeat a nonsensical phrase by someone over and over again, as a form of mocking. Good for you. When you stop your handflapping the rest of use will be around talking about the problem.
 
158Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 17:36
Recapping:

1. Biden thinks the nation is going bankrupt.
2. Biden and you liberals think the solution is to spend more money.
3. I think the solution is to spend less money.
4. For thinking like I do, I am ridiculed.

 
159Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 17:46
Putting aside the question of why in the world that Joe Biden quote is in any way relevent to this thread...

Or prolonged it until WWII, depending on whether you look at the results

Boldwin claims to have looked?



We returned to the pre-depression GDP peak by 1935 or 36, an achievement which required the economy to be in a sustained period of growth since 1933.



Unemployment (the factor that most anti-New Deal revisionists like Boldy cite) is always a lagging indicator, but even it had returned to just below previous peak level in 1937 (again, after a long period of sustained growth) and passed it for good by 1939:



Do I have to provide a date for when the US entered WW2?

All that said, the conservative meme that it was WW2 and specifically not the New Deal that got us out of the depression is in itself a joke. What was it about WW2 that helped the economy? Government spending, you dolts.

Now perhaps Building 7 would like to pull up the Joe Biden thread to whine about Joe Biden quotes in? Nah, why should he show a lick of respect for this place?

Right, Building 7?
 
160Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 17:57
What was it about WW2 that helped the economy? Government spending, you dolts

Exactly. Who was the only party spending money in WWII? The federal government.
 
161Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 17:59
B7: You are being ridiculed because you are riffing on a poorly phrased Biden quote (of all things), while choosing to ignore what he actually meant.
 
162Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 18:01
...in a discussion that has nothing to do with Joe Biden.
 
163DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 00:49
Back on the topic of the thread:

link
 
164Wilmer McLean
      ID: 42629234
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 06:36
What was it about WW2 that helped the economy? Government spending, you dolts

...and...

The Time 100 -- FDR by Doris Kearns Goodwin

...

Yet, under Roosevelt's wartime leadership, the government entered into the most productive partnership with private enterprise the country had ever seen, bringing top businessmen in to run the production agencies, exempting business from antitrust laws, allowing business to write off the full cost of investments and guaranteeing a substantial profit. The output was staggering. By 1943, American production had not only caught up with Germany's 10-year lead but America was also outproducing all the Axis and the Allied powers combined, contributing nearly 300,000 planes, 100,000 tanks, 2 million trucks and 87,000 warships to the Allied cause. "The figures are all so astronomical," historian Bruce Catton marveled. "It was the equivalent of building two Panama Canals every month, with a fat surplus to boot."

...
 
166biliruben
      Leader
      ID: 589301110
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 06:48
... and the government spent money like it never has before, or since:



The equivalent of 10 trillion in today's dollars.
 
167biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Aug 03, 2009, 19:31
Back on topic:

Resignation speech as only the great James T. Kirk could recite it:

 
168boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 10:28
What was it about WW2 that helped the economy? Government spending, you dolts

...and...


they were also the only country with production capacity after the war was over.
 
169Valkyrie
      Dude
      ID: 47042413
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 14:20
I guess we will never know how many votes having Sarah Palin potentially just a 72 year old heartbeat from the presidency cost but it cost mine and given the fact that McCain came much closer than I thought he would, or had any right to after George W's fiasco of a second term, I would not be totally shocked if nominating Palin as vice president actually cost the Republicans the 2008 presidential race.
 
170Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:38
It was the only reason the republican base turned out or even bothered coming to McCain's campaign stops. You think he would have even come close if he kept having 400 show up at his campaign stops as he was getting before he picked her?
 
171Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 16:45
The people who showed up would have still voted for him, mostly. It's the people who don't show up to campaign rallies that matter in elections. I don't understand why you don't get this. It's a bell curve, and the GOP base is pretty far from the middle these days. So when Palin is busy appealing to them, she is busy turning off the fat middle part of the curve, you know, the ones that decide elections. So ya, McCain would have done better without the dead weight.
 
172Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:26
Where was the fat middle of the bell curve when he couldn't fill a phone booth let alone a stadium with supporters?
 
173Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Tue, Aug 04, 2009, 17:32
See the thirty people turnout at the airport to greet McCain at the airport a week before he picked Palin.

And if the VFW hadn't have gotten a buzz on and gotten teary eyed, no one would have shown up.

This was when Obama was a rock star. But you are telling me he had a chance but for Palin.

Good nite ladies. And could you bring anything weaker?
 
174Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 10:07
The fat middle doesn't show exuberant support for one candidate or another in August. They wait until the weeks before the election to make a decision. And guess what? A lot of them decided to vote against McCain after he picked Palin. Palin is not popular with moderates. McCain is popular with moderates. Thus, McCain is more popular than Palin. By a lot.
 
175Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 10:16
Baldwin's point is that McCain was getting killed before Palin came on board, which is certainly true. And the ticket got killed in the end, and McCain's only bump in the polls can be directly drawn from Palin's coming onto the ticket.

This is all true, and can give Palin supporters like Baldwin some optimism. But no Palin supporters should overlook the fact that polling at the end pointed specifically to Sarah Palin as the reason people were voting against that ticket. Moderates, in particular, were turned off by Sarah Palin. Many voters who might have supported the GOP ticket in November (and who said they did at the time when Palin was picked), changed their minds as a result of seeing her in action. Like Fred Thompson, the more people saw Sarah Palin on the campaign trail the less they liked her. Her high point was the day she accepted the VP nomination.

And while she certainly excited the base, when your base is down to 28% of voters that's not going to translate into actual election day wins if the vast independent middle voters don't come to your side.
 
176Razor
      ID: 371502414
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 10:50
McCain was more popular as a Presidential candidate in the summer before the conventions than he was at the end of the election cycle. McCain was losing but not necessarily getting killed during the summer. The bump he received from nominating Palin was pretty big but, it evaporated and then some.
 
177Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 11:27
Actually, most of that summer found his numbers to be fairly flat, both in terms of favorables & unfavorables.

His favorables jumped right after the selection of Palin, but then started falling sharply. Things really started to go off the rails a bit toward the end of September as Palin's media appearances were sinking in, such as her disaster with Katie Couric.
 
178Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:00
No one disagrees that Palin quickly became the focus of the country's attention to the GOP ticket.

I think the clearer judgement is made from the Obama vs McCain polling, rather than looking at McCain's favorablility ratings.

Obama's lead was plateaued at less than 2 points from 8/19 to to 8/27 (the Dem convention started on 8/25). On the last day of the convention when Obama gave his speech (8/28) the "bump" sent him to +2.9 and the rise continued in the following days, peaking at +6.4 on 9/2, the second day of the GOP convention.

The Palin announcement came on 9/3. The 9/4 polling showed Obama's lead down to +4.4 and by 9/7 McCain/Palin were in the lead. By 9/8 the lead was at +2.9. That would be their peak in the running poll average, and their lead would be gone for good by 9/17. In all they led for 10 total days, from 9/7 through 9/16.

By 9/18 Obama was back at +1.9, right where he was in the week before the conventions. The Palin bump had evaporated and through the last week+ of September Obama would go up to +5 and not fall below that point again through the remainder of the campaign season.

Obama's highest lead in the polling average prior to the Palin announcement was +7.5 on 6/24. His highest lead after the Palin announcement was +8.2 on 10/14.

I think any fair eyeballing of that graph shows that Obama enjoyed a higher polling average lead in the final 6 weeks or so after the Palin bump ran it's course than in any 6 week or longer period prior to 9/3.

Seems pretty clear to me that for all the fanfare, overall Palin had a slightly negative effect on the GOP campaign in 2008. It's probably a stretch to determine that a better running mate could have changed the outcome but it certainly would have made it a closer race.
 
179Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:22
All that is true, MITH. But by using unfavorability ratings, I think we get right to the heart of why people started turning against McCain a little better. People started thinking less of McCain because of his choice of Palin as they got to know her and see how she acted on the campaign trail.

There were, of course, other elements involved, as this excellent Nate Silver piece from December demonstrates. It very well could be that McCain's strategy doomed him anyway, no matter the running mate. But (and I know this is speculative) I continue to believe that a better running mate on the team (like Hutchinson, or Whitman) would have made for better strategy decisions, which would have made for a better race.

The worst part of the Palin pick was that it turned potential McCain voters into actual Obama voters. The "base" grumbles that Palin was "their" pick and not taking someone like her on would have meant that they would not have supported McCain. But a potential McCain voter who doesn't vote is much more preferable over a potential McCain voter who votes for Obama.
 
180Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:31
Well it's true that his unfavorability rating continued to trend up almost through the end of the campaign. The two approaches do seem to compliment each other.
 
181Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:40
This blog post - especially for those of us who know who the writer is - is powerful support for the position that people started thinking less of McCain because of his choice of Palin as they got to know her and see how she acted on the campaign trail.
 
182boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 13:06
The worst part of the Palin pick was that it turned potential McCain voters into actual Obama voters. The "base" grumbles that Palin was "their" pick and not taking someone like her on would have meant that they would not have supported McCain. But a potential McCain voter who doesn't vote is much more preferable over a potential McCain voter who votes for Obama.

Good observation.
 
183sarge33rd
      ID: 17681812
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 14:46
Count me as one, potential McCain vote who went Obama, primarily due to the Palin selection. Yes, there were other elements, but the Palin choice "sealed the deal" for me.
 
184Seattle Zen
      ID: 32716514
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:17
It's probably a stretch to determine that a better running mate could have changed the outcome but it certainly would have made it a closer race.

Yes, let's not forget that we were talking about national numbers, not state-by-state. National polling numbers are interesting and make for great news discussion, but are not to be confused with the 51 individual elections. I doubt that more than one state result would have changed had McCain chosen better.

PD - you didn't really suggest Whitman, did you? Talk about a woman who was shunned. I think McCain's best choice would have been Romney. I'm not so sure he would have accepted, though, he had to know that McCain was about to lose. Being the number two on a losing ticket is not a smart career move.
 
185Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:32
Sarge

You declared your support for Obama at least as early as Feb 18 2008 in the first "the Real Obama" thread when no one even had a clue what he was about.

No it wasn't Palin in your case either.
 
186Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 15:44
Whitman was fired by Bush for speaking the truth about the EPA. As a smart woman with far more experience than Palin (and, from a "blue" state to boot), she would have brought a lot more to that ticket than Palin did.

 
187Boldwin
      ID: 376192015
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:01
Not content with one nanny state, pro-abortion party, you daydream about a second one.

 
188DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:03
I think you can safely drop the nanny state argument, or conjtinue to make an utter fool of yourself--your choice. Your buddies are nanny-staters as well, just about different things.
 
189sarge33rd
      ID: 236141411
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:04
re 185...Boldy...I named 3 candidates I was considering. R Paul, McCain and Obama. I then went on to state that if HC got the Dem nod, I was voting Rep regardless who they nominated.

Been thru this wioth Box, again recently with B7 and now you. Do you rightwing nuts do anything other than call left leaning persons liars? Cause thats about all I've seen from you of late. Gibberish, and empty accusations.
 
190biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:04
How about Kay Bailey Hutchison?

If you were set on picking a woman, why slap Republican women with actual qualifications in the face by choosing a nitwit?
 
191Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:14
Not content with one nanny state, pro-abortion party, you daydream about a second one

This might surprise you, Baldwin, but the country rejected your candidate by a very, very healthy margin.

If being more moderate gets you elected, mere pragmatism would dictate a more moderate political philosophy. I realize that you don't see the difference between "moderate" and "pro-nanny" but I assure you, if you hadn't swapped out your political filters for your religious one back in the 1970's you'd see the difference. And in your case the perfect candidate (who doesn't really exist, and wouldn't get elected even if they did) is the enemy of the good (a candidate with only some conservative credentials but someone who can implement conservative policies and act as a brake on a progressive tsunami).

The base's refusal to back a moderate Republican has doomed you to the sidelines for awhile until you can learn how to play with others.

I like Hutchinson. Snowe would have been interesting but probably too regionalized. Even Condi Rice would have been a better pick.
 
192Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 16:31
Bili

The gams factor.
 
193Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 16:43
Sarah Palin: For "Death Panels" Before She Was Against Them
 
194Boldwin
      ID: 42749146
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 07:49
You and that link have it perfectly a@@backwards.

She is for protecting Trig thru legal directives, while Obama's death panels will try and talk you into agreeing to euthanazia when they aren't directing institutional euthanazia.

Just ask everyone advising Obama on end-of-life matters. They are the preminent euthanazia lobbyists in the country.
 
195Mith
      ID: 1871267
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 08:15
Sorry B, I'm not the least bit interested in your convoluted, context distorting, hate-reliant connect-the-dots and read-between-the-lines games. With your outrageous reactive "indisputable" contentions, it's clear you've become too filled with seething hate and rage to serve any useful purpose here any more.

In fact I don't think there's a soul left in this forum who buys your schtick.

HR3200 says what it says and Palin supported the same tihng in her home state. In that lying bitch's response to Obama's rejection of the death panel claim, she resorted to the claim that since the end of life consultations come in a bil designed to cut health care costs, that is reason enough to be concerned that "pulling grandma's plug" just might be too cost effective to not do.

As anyone who clicked the link in pst 192 will tell you, apparently no one got that memo to Newt Gingrich last April, when he explicitly stated in a speech that directives can “save money” while also helping to “decrease the stress felt by caregivers.” Who else is shocked to learn of Newt's geriatricidal tendencies?
 
196Boldwin
      ID: 55712148
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 09:12
1) Anyone describing the next president as 'that lying bitch' has no standing to be calling people out about their rage.

2) A political movement that spent the last 5 decades calling for 'days of rage' has no standing complaining about outrage, organized or otherwise.

3) During the period of time when George Felos and George Soros were inserting euthanazia into american case law, people from all sides were advocating for end of life directives.

4) The two sides, the pro-life side, and the death culture side, just mean different things by that. They just have 180 degree opposite uses for those directives.
 
197Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 09:30
1) Anyone describing the next president as 'that lying bitch' has no standing to be calling people out about their rage.

wanna put your money where your mouth is, on that "next president" line?

and i suppose MITH could have left the "bitch" part off as that's somewhat subjective, there's no question the "lying" part is 100 percent accurate.

that, of course, is something that you're in no position to judge, since you've proven to not be above lying, and in fact, encourage lying and distorting the truth in an attempt to get a point across.
 
198Boldwin
      ID: 8735148
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 09:35
Since you haven't a clue what reality is, how would you know what lying looks like?
 
199Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:11
In most cases, lying is pretty clear. What we're seeing these days is the Far Right using lying tactics and then self-absolving themselves of it, in the interest of some higher calling.

In calmer days, you would see that as "ends justify the means" but these days you're too busy with your holy war to notice.
 
200Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:15
...no standing to be calling people out about their rage

Then I suggest you follow your own advise and stfu.
 
201Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:17
and i suppose MITH could have left the "bitch" part off as that's somewhat subjective

At times it's too tempting to turn Boldy's own phrasing back onto him.
 
202Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:36
By the way:

The two sides, the pro-life side, and the death culture side, just mean different things by that. They just have 180 degree opposite uses for those directives.

Understanding this statement is the key to understanding the derranged far right. There is simply no way for the left to devise an end of life directive that the rubber room set on the reactionary right will accept. As far as Boldy and the hatemongers are concerned, the very fact that the bill is drawn up by political liberals is all the proof necessary that they're all set switch off your grandmother's iv drip and make off with her jewlery and gold teeth.

It works the same way across many topics. For example, when a GOP administration keeps tabs on private militias which might or might not endorse or even engage in domestic terrorism, it isn't particularly noteworthy. But the moment a Dem administration takes over, suddenly the same intelligence gathering is a case of targeting conservatives as enemies of the state.

The scary thing is that the derranged portion of the right is growing. It isn't really accurate to say these people reside on the fringe anymore.
 
203Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:41
Since you haven't a clue what reality is, how would you know what lying looks like?

i'll let my recent posts vs. your recent posts answer that question and rebutt that statement.

At times it's too tempting to turn Boldy's own phrasing back onto him.

your memory is much better than mine - thanks for the subsequent link. In context, I guess calling Palin a bitch is a-ok! :o)

 
204Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:50
Michael Sherer fisks Palin's second attempt at explaining the unexplainable

Let us pause a moment here to consider the import of this argument. Palin is saying that the government should not fund a service many doctors want to provide to their patients--and many patients want provided to them--because doctors might try to dupe patients into denying themselves services. She is arguing, in other words, that the government's proper role is to restrict the range of services that doctors can provide patients.

But that is exactly what "conservatives" have been doing for some time. I don't know why this should be a surprise.
 
205Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 10:52
Also, doctors, as we know, have no real incentive to curtail services. In fact, they have every incentive to do service after service after service (and do). This is part of the current problem with the system.

Palin seems to be arguing that doctors will argue against services but provides no reasoning for any incentive for them to do so outside of patient wishes.
 
206Boldwin
      ID: 467351410
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 11:35
The denial on the left is amazing. There are multiple avenues of government taking over the decision making process as to what care you will be allowed in this bill.

Death Czar

Death Panel

These are objective facts in your future and they are spelled out in the bill and you've been shown the lines in the bill.

It is just wishful thinking to believe that the euthanazia lobbyists among Obama's advisors aren't going to get exactly what they want and have advocated for years. No one who reads what these people like Rahm Emanuel's brother have written about nazi level disregard for life for years, could ever interpret these provisions in the bill as innocuously as liberals would have us do.
 
207Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 11:37
Um, these "death panels" don't really exist, B.
 
208Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 11:39
You can't argue with hallucinations, Perm Dude.
 
209Pancho Villa
      ID: 207341411
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 12:34
It's becoming extremely clear that Baldwin doesn't now, and likely never has understood the meaning of the word "euthanasia."

He's made up his own definition.
 
210tree on the treo
      ID: 515451613
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:09
PV...he did the same thing for the word "reality".....
 
211Pancho Villa
      ID: 207341411
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:24
These are objective facts

There is neither "objectivity" nor "factual" components in your projecting.

We should at least get the semantics right.

Death czar and death panels are as subjective and speculative as it gets.

 
212Boldwin
      ID: 227301412
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:30
Not when they kill you dead.
 
213Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:32
Like Stephen Hawking. What a mind he would have been.
 
215biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:33
You are a treasure, Baldwin.

If it weren't for you, I would assume the radical right were all simply stupid, and right them off as that. Now I know that there are some that are smart and simply batshit crazy.
 
216Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:35
I think the word you are looking for is craven, bili.
 
217Boldwin
      ID: 147361412
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:36
bili

What goes on in your head when you read Rahm Emanuel's brother advocate nazi practices?

Does your mind just go into denial?

Do you think he isn't in a position to get what he wants?

 
219biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:40
Advocating Nazi practices? I've been using YOPLL for 15 years in my research.

I'm a Nazi, your a Nazi, wouldntcha like to be a Nazi too.
 
220Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:43
It must be a lot of work to snip away context from everything before posting, Baldwin.

The good doctor said that in the case of very scarce resources (say, one liver for three donors), that a number of qualifications could be used to determine the best single recipient.

In that same paper he specifically said that such a thing should not be used regarding health care in general.

So, you've taken some of his words out of context, and tried to apply it in a way in which he said you should not (ignoring his other words on the point).

So you want us to believe only those words of his you have pulled out, but not other words of his in the same article--is that it?
 
221Boldwin
      ID: 77461412
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:46
Everyone I've ever read emanating from the Hastings Institute has been a certifiable nazi.

If you, bili, are going to argue against treating the elderly and disabled I'm going to call you a nazi.
 
222biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:47
I'm sorry, Baldwin. Madman's midnight visits have reminded me what actual discussions of issues look like from the right.

It makes it very difficult to take wingnuts seriously anymore.

I think I may find the energy if I only respond in verse or song.
 
223Boldwin
      ID: 377481412
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:48
It is not unrelated that Dr Death Cransford who worked so diligently to euthanize Terri Schiavo also hailed from the Hastings Institute.
 
224biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:49
He didn't, and neither did I.

That means I get to respond with my Son's favorite diddy:

Boom boom ain't it great to be craaaazzzzy!

Boom boom ain't it great to be craaaazzzzy!
 
225Boldwin
      ID: 17521412
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:52
I love Madman as much as the next guy, but let's be honest. He'd rather chew off his arm than leave the neutral corner. Painting him as a conservative is ludicrous.
 
226DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 13:53
"In that same paper he specifically said that such a thing should not be used regarding health care in general."

Oh, come on now, you know he only says that because it isn't what he beli--er, what the lunatic fringe wants to think he believes so they don't have to face facts and realities.

Boldwin, go take your medications, because you are really off the deep end (even by your standards) today.
 
227Boldwin
      ID: 26721413
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:02
Well I'll just have to resussitate an old thread and point out exactly what Obama's advisors have said advocating for denial of treatment of the elderly and disabled and you guys can hunker down deeper into denial as always.
 
228Boldwin
      ID: 6731413
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:03
[While resussitating is still legal]
 
229biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:03
he he.
 
230Tree
      ID: 41371322
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:25
I love Madman as much as the next guy, but let's be honest. He'd rather chew off his arm than leave the neutral corner. Painting him as a conservative is ludicrous.

it just upsets you that his conservative arguments are rational and filled with common sense, unlike your own, which are delusional, and filled with lies and out-of-context fantasies.
 
231Boldwin
      ID: 407411413
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:41
I'm not remotely disturbed by Madman, but if he's a conservative he'd rather not let it show.
 
232biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:45
Madman's conservative as can be,
He just leaves out the diet-y
 
233Boldwin
      ID: 217461413
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:46
My own theory is that he'd like to find employment no matter who is in power.
 
234Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 15:31
Swampland
Palin goes on to explain that since one of the intents of the bill is to reduce costs in the health system it is logical to assume that seniors "might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care." (This situation, it can be noted, leaves wealthy people, who by contrast do not depend on Medicare to pay for their consultations with doctors, free to be manipulated by nefarious doctors with discussions about end-of-life preferences.) Let us pause a moment here to consider the import of this argument. Palin is saying that the government should not fund a service many doctors want to provide to their patients--and many patients want provided to them--because doctors might try to dupe patients into denying themselves services. She is arguing, in other words, that the government's proper role is to restrict the range of services that doctors can provide patients. Isn't this the opposite of the traditional conservative stance on health care--that the government should not get between the doctor-patient relationship?

 
235Boldwin
      ID: 597271519
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 20:27
 
236Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 18:58
Majority doesn't want Palin to run...
 
237Tree
      ID: 23143812
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 11:43
what was really written on Palin's hand.

 
238rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 21:22
Moderator, how is #238 contributing to a valuable conversation? I'm just curious. Seems like an attempt to inflame Palin and/or Palin supporters? No?
 
240rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 21:25
err, #237.
 
241Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 21:40
Frankly, I don't find any reason to delete that one.

It may not "contribute to valuable conversation", but that was never the standard.



 
242rockafellerskank
      Dude
      ID: 27652109
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 21:51
Eh. Same info my nephew sent me via text and he is in 7th grade. Seems inflammatory to me. I'd feel differently if it was an actual pic of her hand, but it's been doctored to make her look derogatory. The post stands and speaks for itself/poster.
 
243Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 23:41
if we wanna be b!tchy about it, i'll go on record that post 242 comes a lot closer to violating the policy on civility and respect than post 237. Between the comparison to a 7th grader and the final sentence, it's borderline.

and OBVIOUSLY post 237 is a joke. i mean, did it really need to be explained?
 
244astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Tue, Feb 09, 2010, 23:45
I thought #238 was a joke too...until I read #242. Maybe he just doesn't like you? carry on...
 
245Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Wed, Feb 10, 2010, 01:01
post 237 is damn funny and "damn funny" is one of things I want to see on these boards.

She ought to have stuck with "improve evolution", honestly...
 
246Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Wed, Feb 10, 2010, 06:51
I don't think anyone wants a forum where making fun of politicians is banned.
 
247Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Wed, Feb 10, 2010, 09:12
And for whatever it's worth, this was much funnier. 5 minutes very well spent:
The Colbert ReportMon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c
Sarah Palin Uses a Hand-O-Prompter
www.colbertnation.com
Colbert Report Full EpisodesPolitical HumorEconomy
 
248Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Wed, Feb 10, 2010, 09:31
Tea Party popularity drops after Palin speech at convention

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters finds that in a three-way congressional contest with a Tea Party candidate on the ballot, the Democrat earns 36% support. The GOP candidate comes in second with 25% of the vote, while the Tea Party candidate picks up 17%. Twenty-three percent (23%) are undecided.

In early December, the Tea Party candidate came in second with 23% of the vote, while the Republican finished in third with 18%. The Democratic candidate attracted 36% of the vote in that contest, too.

Unchanged between the two surveys is the 41% of voters who have a favorable opinion of the Tea Party movement. But now 28% view the movement unfavorably, up six points from December. Thirty-one percent (31%) are not sure what they think of the movement.

The survey was taken Sunday and Monday night following the Tea Party movement’s first national convention in Nashville. Former Alaska Governor and GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin was the keynote speaker and told the group, "This is the future of our country. The Tea Party movement is the future of politics."


Anti-government sentiment is running high with the public at large, and the Tea Party and Palin have large, passionate and vocal supporters. Palin has established herself as the face of the Tea Party, probably at the expense of an upper echelon position in the Republican Party.
While some will argue that Palin should be praised for standing up for principles that Republicans have abandoned, she's all too eager to abandon these principles when it is self-serving. As Rich Lowry points out,

In her convention keynote address, Sarah Palin said that "in many ways Scott Brown represents what this beautiful movement is all about." She spoke about the new Massachusetts senator, who is pro-choice, shrugs at gay marriage and amassed a record in the state Senate that makes him look like Noam Chomsky compared with most of the convention attendees. He is lionized nonetheless. link

The attempt to portray Brown as a Tea Party candidate and representative because he drives a truck, but also posed for Playgirl Magazine, is a good indication that Palin will say most anything if she thinks it's politically expedient.
Additionally, one has to wonder just how much Brown wants to be associated with Palin and the Tea Party.

When Republican Scott Brown won the Senate seat in Massachusetts, among the many congratulatory phone calls he took on Election Night was reportedly one from Sarah Palin.

But Brown told The Associated Press on Jan. 28, nine days after his victory, "I don't know Sarah Palin. I've never spoken with her. She's never reached out, vice versa."
link
 
249walk
      ID: 44111268
      Wed, Feb 10, 2010, 20:11
Funny is good. It's political satire. Even the effin retard Palin would say that's okay!
 
250boldwin
      ID: 441481016
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 04:53
That is your way of calling her supporters an effin retard so I'd appreciate your restraint.

 
251Mith
      ID: 43914286
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 08:06
Watch the clip in 247, boldy. We stand in support of her!
 
252boldwin
      ID: 481371112
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 16:57
As I recall Bill only had one point, 'It's the economy stupid', on his short list.
 
253DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 17:33
71 percent of Americans have a clue. In other reports, Fox News claimed fully 29% of the overall news market.
 
254boldwin
      ID: 481371112
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 17:39
Shows you how effective the full court Dean/Quayle treatment is from the biased MSM and latenite writers.
 
255DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 17:43
Actually, I thought it provided great faith in the American people to see through the right-wing nutjob spin machine presenting intelligence as "elitism" and ignorance as being a desirable quality in a leader.
 
256Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Feb 11, 2010, 18:06
I think boldwin has a different definition of "effective" than I do.
 
257Boldwin
      ID: 121501617
      Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 20:32
This is what Dem insiders are getting in their internet mailboxes. Snark aside, a pretty accurate read.
Palin's Saturday Night Live

If you didn't watch Sarah Palin's speech at the National Tea Party Convention on Saturday night, you should definitely give it a gander. It was in some respects an unprecedented opportunity for her: a prepared text (obviously her best format), but not one scripted by a campaign (unlike her 2008 Republican Convention address), and guaranteed major media attention. As a private citizen, she was in a position to say pretty much whatever she wanted. Yes, the venue was a bit tricky, because of the widespread criticism of the Tea Party Convention itself, but not remotely as perilous as her resignation speech as governor of Alaska.

She used her own Saturday Night Live opportunity to perform four tasks: general cheerleading for the Tea Party Movement (while making it clear the immediate venue and the controversial for-profit organization that sponsored it was a small piece of that Movement); a quick tour d'horizon of global hot spots to begin addressing one of her most glaring weaknesses, a lack of foreign policy chops; an assortment of crowd-pleasing snarky attacks on the Obama adminstration, not very original but pretty well-delivered; and an extremely conventional recitation of time-honored conservative themes, punctuated by ritual invocations of the Holy Name of Ronald Reagan.

Anyone who thinks the Tea Party Movement is vastly at odds with the dominant conservative wing of the Republican Party should observe that this speech could have been delivered at a Lincoln Day dinner pretty much anywhere in the country, and would have received the same rapturous audience reaction.

Indeed, the speech is a good illustration of why Palin creates such dramatically different perceptions among different groups of politically active people. To most progressives, every other line in the speech was something of a howler, thanks to the exceptionally unselfconscious way in which she glides over self-contradictions. She genuflected at the altar of constitutional supremacy even as she mocked the president as a law professor. She called for a radical attack on budget deficits while she demanded more tax cuts, often in the same sentence. She repeatedly assaulted the of lack of transparency in Democratic policy formulation, but failed to offer any policy prescriptions other than minor (and frankly, stupid) conservative pet rocks like interstate health insurance sales or her own well-rehearsed pet rock of expanding fossil-fuel exploration. She redundantly assailed Wall Street bailouts that she endorsed when they were actually happening. And with every breath, she posed as just another citizen-activist fighting against political elites and media persecution, even though she was a professional politician lifted from obscurity by Washington-based Republican political professionals and then made a national celebrity by constant media attention.

But to conservative ideologues, Palin is simply expounding Revealed Truth, in the uncomplicated manner attributed to the sainted Reagan, and her red meat attacks on Democrats, her allusions to persecution by "elites," and her pose of independence from the GOP establishment, are all projections of their own feelings, cultivated over many years.

And that's why having watched Palin's act in Nashville, I disagree more strongly than ever with those who assert she can't possibly launch a viable campaign for the presidency in 2012. No, I don't think she will be elected president, but yes, I think it's possible she could win the Republican nomination.

To assess this question, you have to appreciate the psychology of movement conservatives at this particular moment of political history. Most of them have believed all along that there is a "hidden majority" of conservatives in America that can only be crystallized by the most rigorous conservative candidates and messages. After 1964, at least, conservatives have attributed every single Republican presidential defeat to a combination of RINO machinations, "moderate" policy prescriptions, and an unwillingness to exploit the opposition's vulnerability by any means necessary--all mistakes imposed by Republican "elites" who contemptuously betray conservative interest groups and causes. These are the kind of people who started showing up at McCain rallies in the autumn of 2008 to upbraid their candidate for failing to talk about Jeremiah Wright and ACORN, and who empathized viscerally with Palin's public frustration about the campaign's unwillingness to "take the gloves off" (a frustration she alluded to in her Nashville speech).

I don't think most progressives fully appreciate how vindicated conservative activists feel right now. Since the 2008 elections, their party has executed the most remarkable turn away from the political center any losing party has probably ever undertaken. RINOs have been intimidated and silenced; Republican Members of Congress have been whipped into highly disciplined submission; policy positions on issues ranging from health care to climate change to foreign policy that were highly respectable in GOP circles just a few years ago are now "socialist" anathema. And in consolidation of earlier conservative victories within the GOP, legalized abortion is now almost universally considered murder; "moral relativism," including homosexuality, is regarded as an abomination inflicted on a suffering "real American" population by decadent elites in Sodom and Gomorrah enclaves on the coasts; and any suggestion that Islamic jihadism is less than an Cold War-level existential threat is treated as "hate-America" semi-treason.

And lo and behold, even as Republicans finally take hard-core conservative advice, their electoral prospects are blossoming. A Tea Party ally has won Ted Kennedy's Senate seat! Even liberal media villains expect a big Republican victory in 2010! With every day, more American are beginning to blame Obama and the Democrats for the economic crisis, and Republican discipline in the Senate ensures he can't do much about it. And moreover, the most vibrant popular political movement in the country, the Tea Party Movement, is pushing Republicans (and perhaps the country) even further to the right, aiding materially not only in the savaging of Obama, but in the ongoing purge of RINOs and "moderate" squishes.

This is the context within which any assessment of Sarah Palin's immediate political future needs to be conducted. It's a context in which vast and largely sympathetic media coverage is devoted to an amateurish, financially-questionable convention in Nashville where people like Tom Tancredo and Roy Moore really don't stand out. It's a context where Sarah Palin is firmly in the mainstream.

So why wouldn't this sudden mega-celebrity, who believes her career is the object of divine favor, and who is surrounded constantly with adulation made even more intense by any mockery of her misteps, run for president? Why not take a chance on completely eclipsing Mike Huckabee and utterly destroying Tim Pawlenty in the Right-to-Life dominated caucuses in Iowa, a state where a new Des Moines Register poll shows one-third of all voters supporting the Tea Party Movement?

That's all a long way off, and a lot could change. 2010 may not after all represent the great gittin' up morning that conservatives expect. At some point, conservative activists may finally get tired of Palin's maddening lack of specificity, or tumble to the fact that Democratic horror of Palin does not actually represent fear of her general-election appeal. Maybe she really doesn't want anything other than her current level of fame or her very manageable political work-load. And perhaps her fans will find a new, or old, champion (her Fox colleague Glenn Beck, for example, seems to think Rick Santorum is The Bomb).

But it's far past time to stop pretending that Palin is just a joke. If her performance in Nashville was taken seriously by the kind of people who tend to dominate the Republican nominating process--and it was--then she's got a political future that she can only enhance by continuing to pose as the personification of grassroots conservative activism, "you betchas" and all.

Posted by Ed Kilgore on February 8, 2010 02:00 PM
 
258Boldwin
      ID: 121501617
      Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 04:28
What 'you people' don't get is just how much hunger there is for anyone able to communicate Reagan's principled solutions, and mean it sincerely.

For all I know Tancredo is that person, but even I haven't heard him. Curious and frustrating because I have a feeling he's given it a lot more thot than Palin has. Palin just seems to be surrounded by megaphones without even trying and Tancredo seems wrapped in sound absorbant material.
 
259biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 14:36
Social conservatives often rails against moral relativism, sometimes with a grain of truth I can agree with, sometimes merely tilting at windmills, and feeding their simplistic good vs. evil fantasies that most adults outgrow around 9th grade, when we discover that vexing complexity that doesn't fit our adolescent view of the world.

I don't know if she truly believes it (I hope not), but Sarah has been engaging in what I think of as intellectual relativism, saying



I'm not going to pretend I know more than the next person.

I'll leave the critique to Kleiman:

The populist intuition that public decision processes are frequently manipuated in hard-to-understand ways for the benefit of the privileged is largely correct. The problem is that understanding hard-to-understand things is the natural province of specialists: people who “know more than the next person” about some part of the universe. If all you want out of politics is a chance to express your resentments, a leader such as Palin will do you fine. If you actually want a better deal for the bottom 99% of the income distribution, then you’re going to need the help of experts, who by definition constitute an “elite.”

and Wieseltier:

The invocation of “the people” sounds inclusive, but it is a technique of exclusion. (This was also the case in the preamble to the Constitution.) It is based upon a particular definition of “the people.” How do Palin and the partiers know who the real Americans are? The mystical certainty of her divisive intuition reminds me of what intellectual historians used to call the “epistemological privilege” of Marx’s proletariat, his reprehensible old idea that access to truth is a feature of class position. Palin, too, is idealizing the proletariat for the uniqueness of its understanding, though her economics is starkly indifferent to its tribulations. And if you throw in Palin’s views on the “social issues,” on the questions by which we measure the decency of our society, then it is clear that this is an anti-elitism that is not an egalitarianism, a common touch without genuine commonality, which is quite an accomplishment.


Who express the contradiction much better than I ever could.
 
260Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:15
It has disturbed marxists to no end that the common man with common sense does not agree with marxism and holds marxism accountable for the actual record of marxism.

How anyone got thru the twentieth century and still wants to give marxism another try is something known only those lost in a maze of fatuous theory and sadly lacking in empathy for the several hundred millions of victims who died teaching us the error of Karl Marx' ways as well as all future victims.

 
261Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:18
then it is clear that this is an anti-elitism that is not an egalitarianism

Grinding everyone down to an equal share of misery is...
 
262biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:21
I think you need to read it again. It certainly isn't glorifying Marxism. It's comparing Palin disparagingly to Marx.
 
263Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:42
Obviously the common man does not agree.
 
264biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:44
I am sure you see the irony in your statement. ;)
 
265Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:47
I sure see the irony in his characterization - "anti-elitism that is not an egalitarianism".
 
266Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:48
Since marxism is entirely elitist and has nothing worthwhile to share.
 
267biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:50
whoooosh!
 
268Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 15:58
There is thankfully no equivalence between Marx's dream of a greedy jealous bloody-minded class of average man, and the reality either.
 
269biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 16:00
Heh. The comparison with Marx is just a minor aside. I should have known you would see red and fixate.
 
270Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 16:07
As always, Bill Buckley's, 'I'll trust the first hundred people in the phonebook over Harvard 'experts' anytime" is golden.
 
271biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 16:08
I hope that's not how you plan on finding a heart surgeon.
 
272Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 16:13
I hope medicine is a harder science than Economics.
 
273biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 17:01
There you go with the hopey changey thing.

Don't you know having hope is a character flaw?
 
274Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 17:30
If you are hoping in a marxist.
 
275biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 19, 2010, 17:33
I was hoping for a marxist, but sadly just got a bland capitalist in the Reagan mold.
 
276Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Sat, Feb 20, 2010, 02:08
That's your take on Obama?
 
277Boldwin
      ID: 2155174
      Sat, Feb 20, 2010, 10:36
In case you think there is anything remotely similar between the two, just listen.
 
278Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 13:08
Apparently Tripp Palin is on socialized medicine.

 
279Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 15:08
Apparently you think conservatives should turn down Robbinhood when he hands back a bit of their own money previously stolen.
 
280Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 15:16
No, we don't. That's the difference between conservatives and the rest of us on this matter: Conservatives decry the existence of government funding, well, anything, and take the money anyway. The rest of us have no real problem with it.

Of the two kinds of people, only one are being hypocritical.
 
281Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 15:26
A robber steals our wallet, nearly empties it, throws it back at us with a few singles left in it, and we are hypocrits for picking it up and putting it back in our pocket.

If people can't see thru that they deserve having their pockets picked.

 
282Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 19:44
Is that what you think Alaska is getting? A fraction of it's tax dollars back?

hahahahaha. Seriously. hahahahaha.
 
283Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 20:05
A robber steals our wallet, nearly empties it, throws it back at us with a few singles left in it, and we are hypocrits for picking it up and putting it back in our pocket.

Paraphrasing the Joe Stack manifesto, are we? I find it interesting that arch conservatives like to characterize liberals as self-loathing hate America types, then turn around and mimic such behavior.



 
284Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 21:13
Socialism isn't American.
 
285sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 23:04
really? So it would be somehow "more" American, to let the poor starve? Or the infirmed without financials on their side...die? Allow the homeless to pass from hypothermia?

Is that REALLY what you believe?
 
286Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 10:40
I'll rely on the labor of the motivated self-supporting individual, the support of the family, the charity of a good people...

...over the tender mercies of robbinhood and a corrupt kleptocrasy anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
287Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 12:57
Socialism isn't American.

Neither you, Sarah Palin, nor I get to decide what is and what isn't American. When I was a teenager, many of my friends and I thought dropping millions of tons of bombs on a country that posed no threat to us wasn't American. Conservatives told us,
"This is America: Love it or Leave it."

When we protested that a robber was stealing our wallets and using it to kill thousands of innocent people, conservatives told us we we self-loathing traitors who hated America.

But when you protest the way taxpayer money is used, somehow it's patriotic and American.
So,

war = good
health care = bad
Palins' free health care = getting back at being robbed
Those of us who want affordable health insurance premiums = free lunch

 
288boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 14:37
When I was a teenager, many of my friends and I thought dropping millions of tons of bombs on a country that posed no threat to us wasn't American.

I guess it is good that since you were a teenager you were paying little in taxes so you could not have felt too cheated.
 
289Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 14:42
Perhaps. But the feeling of being cheated is being stoked by the GOP for political reasons. The fact that Obama has actually reduced taxes for most people is a sin of omission by those all too willing to get people angry at the government and use them as tools for their own ends.

Are people, in fact, getting "cheated?" Where were those people's complaints when they were paying more a few years ago, and that money was going to cover an expensive war in Iraq and a monstrous prescription Medicare plan?
 
290boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 14:46
maybe they should have felt cheated, maybe the democrats should have reminded them of that.
 
291Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 15:00
Maybe they should have--certainly the biggest problem with the Dems is that they are clueless about how to sell their policies to the American people. That is, they aren't articulating the problems and their solutions to those problems.

The GOP is clueless about how to problem solve but they are masters at tearing down the other side. And the Dems have been letting the GOP pick the battles for about a year now.
 
292Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 19:00
The fact that Obama has actually reduced taxes for most people - PD

What a steaming pile. You add up every tax break he is canceling and fee and mandated payment he is piling on you or proposing before you make that statement bub.
 
293DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 19:02
Okay.

*adding machines whir*

Yup, still right.
 
294Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 19:10
Cha-ching
 
295Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 19:37
Dick Morris on the effect Obama will have on taxes before this is over.
 
296Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 19:40
"We cut taxes. We cut taxes for 95 percent of working families. We cut taxes for small businesses," Obama said. "We cut taxes for first-time homebuyers. We cut taxes for parents trying to care for their children. We cut taxes for 8 million Americans paying for college."

Democrats applauded, while Republicans were silent for the most part. In one of the unscripted moments of the night, Obama looked at the Republican side of the room, smiled and said, "I thought I'd get some applause on that one."
And that is because not one of those Republicans believed a word of it. The net result will be huge tax increases for everyone.
 
297Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Tue, Feb 23, 2010, 22:03
"The Washington Times" reports there will be 2.5 million federal employees this year.

It's the first time in history that the number of federal employees will surpass the two million mark.
 
298biliruben
      ID: 16105237
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 07:30
Scary Trends!!!

Year Fed Employees(1000s) %Workforce

1970 2,997 3.81
1971 2,899 3.65
1972 2,882 3.51
1973 2,822 3.32
1974 2,825 3.26
1975 2,877 3.35
1976 2,879 3.24
1977 2,855 3.10
1978 2,875 2.99
1979 2,897 2.93
1980 2,987 3.01
1981 2,909 2.90
1982 2,871 2.88
1983 2,878 2.85
1984 2,935 2.80
1985 3,001 2.80
1986 3,047 2.77
1987 3,075 2.73
1988 3,113 2.71
1989 3,133 2.67
1990 3,233 2.72
1991 3,101 2.63
1992 3,106 2.62
1993 3,043 2.53
1994 2,993 2.43
1995 2,943 2.36
1996 2,881 2.27
1997 2,816 2.17
1998 2,783 2.12
1999 2,789 2.09
2000 2,879 2.10
2001 2,704 1.97
2002 2,699 1.98
2003 2,743 1.99
2004 2,714 1.95
2005 2,709 1.91
2006 2,700 1.87
2007 2,695 1.85
2008 2,730 1.88

So we have been over 2.5 million for 4 decades, and we have cut the percentage of federal civilian employees in half during that time.

Conclusion: The Washington Times is good for wrapping a nice piece of salmon, or perhaps some Dungeness crab. Don't be stupid enough to actually read it, however.
 
299Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 13:13
To be precise that came from ozarksfirst.com, who either is or much more likely quotes...(Copyright 2010 by VERTEXNews/Newsroom Solutions). Neither claim to be quoting the WT verbatim so there are two sources there who may have made an assumption based on a starting point in the WT column.

When you look at the record breaking spending it's very hard to believe those census figures bili found. I'd like to look at definitions and numbers of contractors acting as civilian federal employees.
 
300Biliruben movin
      ID: 358252515
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 14:55
Record breaking spending?

Our deficit is mainly driven by war and tax cuts. Not sure how
either would expand (non-military) jobs, federal or not.
 
301Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 15:24
You can't imagine American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and (SEIU) Service Employees International Union are getting anything for their money?

Really? Yer just drawing a blank, can't see any connection?

 
302biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 15:34
My vision clearly isn't as keen as yours.

Nor is my core rotted black by cynicism painting ghostly visions of union specters and ghouls stealing, STEALING! my hard earned tax dollars in exchange for something so base, and useless old-America as labor.
 
303Tree
      ID: 23143812
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 16:05
Sarah Palin's spokeswoman Meg Stapleton, a close adviser to the former Alaska governor who developed a rocky relationship with other Republicans and members of the media, has resigned, two sources close to Palin confirmed Wednesday to CNN.
 
304Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 16:15
Wow. She was an apologist for Palin for a loooong time. Maybe she's moving on, but I've been hearing that Palin throws people under the bus with regularity for perceived non-loyalty.
 
305Boldwin
      ID: 111562213
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 22:39
bili

I'm from Chicago. I have no use for civil 'servants' with either their heels up on the desk and holding down two incomes, five guys leaning on shovels standing around a hole in the ground not working all morning, social workers with god complexes and hearts the size of dust motes.

Labor and civil service have very little in common from where I come from.
 
306Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 23:01
I have no use for civil 'servants' with either their heels up on the desk and holding down two incomes, five guys leaning on shovels standing around a hole in the ground not working all morning, social workers with god complexes and hearts the size of dust motes.

Labor and civil service have very little in common from where I come from.


Nice to know you're still capable of a gem.
 
307Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 07:38
Latest Sarah Palin speech opens Sixth Seal

And lo, there was then a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair; and the moon became as blood; and "gosh" was spoken repeatedly; and the stars of heaven fell upon the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
 
308walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 12:15
So funny. #297 includes a little quote, with no supporting data, from a lame pub to make a misleading point. #298 refutes that with much better data, and yet it's same person who put up the drivel in #297 who questions the data from #298 in post #299.

"Aristophenes --> Ridiculous!"
 
309biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 13:33
Another interesting fact to note is that we hit our peak of fed employees just at the end of the Reagan-Bush The Elder 3 term run.

Just more evidence of the ever-effective bankrupt and spend policies coming from our conservative heroes.
 
310Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 16:19
The best I could determine when I looked into that VERY counterintuitive trend in federal employees, was that Reagan apparently brought in the process of privatization [different than privatization in other contexts, not talking about business ownership but rather public sector employees --->private sector contacts] into USA government which started contracting out work wherever it was demonstrably cheaper. While I couldn't find this spelled out in one great site, it can be derived from the sites of apoplectic liberal activists, professors, etc struggling mightily to reverse the process.

Can you imagine how much worse off we'd be with 2 million extra bloated public sector pension plans hanging over our heads?
 
311biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 16:32
Spin any faster and you will and you will be drilling for oil!

1993 We had Dems controlling just about everything. If they wanted to reverse any sorts of trends, they would have.

Why don't we go with Occam's Razor, and go with the most obvious explanation that the decline was due to those in power at the time. Struggling to come up with some whacky theory regarding some sort of latency effect in order to twist the facts to support your hero is frankly a bit pathetic.
 
312Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 16:43
It is a very real phenomenon. Check it out for yourself.

And it was a Reagan phenomenon, as I am sure you remember the air traffic controllers. Reagan was the first politician with the guts to start that ball rolling.
 
313DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 16:46
Running post 310 through the BSPN translator:

"Despite minor details like all the factual evidence pointing in exactly the opposite direction, I am going to quixotically maintain that I am right and you are wrong. As soon as I can either hand-wave those figures away or come up with something else to complain about, I'm sure you'll forget that I was yet again unable to make a factual argument."
 
314Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 17:11
Reagan's standing up to the air traffic controllers union is a nice story, but doesn't take away from the fact that the government grew under his administration. Spin away, but that's a fact. It was only under the Clinton Administration that the numbers started to see any serious drops.
 
315boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 17:16
Interesting the civilian defense work force has been cut a lot since 1990 and adjusted for inflation federal employees have done well for themselves since 1970.
 
316biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 17:46
Yeah, though I would be careful about speculating on compensation.

It could be that the employment mix changed. If they started contracting out for all janitorial services, yet maintained the mid and high-level positions above them, that it would look like they salaries had risen more than they had.

In truth, in the 90s, most everybody did pretty well salary-wise.

Crappy time to be wasting away in grad school.
 
317biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 17:58
But man. The postal workers haven gotten seriously reamed.

No wonder their trigger fingers are a bit itchy.

Speaking of that, I walk into my post office that's a half mile from my new house, and ask where my damn Baseball Prospectus is.

The lady's response: "We aren't your post office. Your post office is 7 miles from here."

Huh?
 
318Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 18:30
Bili - that's how it was for me in NYC. the post office a half block away was a different zip code. my post office was about 1.5 miles away.
 
319Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 00:52
The goons have taken over.
 
320bibA
      ID: 01116297
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 09:10
Are ALL of us government workers goons? Or just the ones who are not Tea Party followers?

According to the above linked article one million out of the 22 million drivers in California were protected by a "shield", and thus exempt from traffic laws. Ordinarily, if one out of every 22 California drivers had a license to drive any way he chose, there would be demands for more police power to protect Californians from the potential carnage. But until the newspaper series, law enforcement officials and legislators had remained mum. The reason, of course, is that the scofflaws are law enforcement officials and legislators.

This is so much b.s. This "shield" only allows the drivers to list their work address on their license as their address. This certainly would not keep a traffic violator from receiving a ticket or being held at fault for an accident he may have caused. And the idea that law enforcement would favor someone just because he was a state civil servant is pretty close to being ludicrous. Further, there may be some law that allows cops and legislators to list their work address instead of their home address on their license, but this does not mean that everyone else is prohibited from doing the same.
 
321bibA
      ID: 01116297
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 10:34
The more I think about it, the more ironic it is for someone who is so far to the right to call cops goons. There is surely no group that is more right wing than cops.
 
322Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 12:30
The cops were only the camel's nose in the tent. What followed was every civil service leech in the state.
 
323tree on the treo
      ID: 287212811
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 12:57
:: munches popcorn ::
 
324jedman
      Dude
      ID: 315192219
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 13:35
The part of the article that has bothered me for a long time is
the pensions for retiring workers. I live near Vallejo and our
city, Fairfield is looking at a $7 million budget shortfall. I have
so many friends that have retired early and gotten the type of
pensions described in the article. They then get another job for
as long as they want to work, many of them are brought back to
the department as consultants, working part time. I really worry
that these pensions are going to break many city and state
governments. You can only cut back so far on services and
when that is not enough, what? It has to come with tax
increases or an improving economy that will generate more
revenue. It scares the heck out of me for my children especially.
Most states and cities are running out of money. My business
deals specifically with school districts and they are almost all
broke. It is very tough out there and I wonder what is truly
going to happen when the wells run completely dry.
 
325DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 14:11
jedman, it's not a bad point, but the alternative is simply to do what, say "yes, even though you worked for us for 20 years for the compensation of X dollars per hour plus a defined pension when you retire, and you lived up to your end of that agreement in good faith, tough cookies, we're not going to give you part of the compensation you agreed to"?

That's called fraud.
 
326Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 15:11
jedman is entirely right--one of the biggest problems with the California budget collapse is the huge amount of pension money being paid out. The low rates on investments isn't coming close to covering the costs of the retirees.

I know that California was seriously considering defaulting on its pension payments, in fact, though the cost of any suit if they did would bankrupt them more thoroughly.
 
327Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 15:30
The packages are entirely too generous. These guys are getting a number of pensions from different civil service jobs they worked for the minimum number of years to game the system. And the pensions were two and three times more generous than they should have been in the first place.

And now you know what blue shirted SIEU union thugs are fighting for. Your grandkids as their slaves.
 
328Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 16:52
The packages are entirely too generous.

no doubt. but that's the deal that was struck, and you can't change what has already happened, just what can happen down the road.

And now you know what blue shirted SIEU union thugs are fighting for. Your grandkids as their slaves.

this is the kind of comment you make as an addendum that makes people roll their eyes and laugh off you comments as the rantings of a crazy man.

leave those sort of things off, and you'll see a lot more dialogue here.
 
329biliruben
      ID: 16105237
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 17:24
Corporations and governments generally negotiate pensions in order to avoid increasing costs now. It's a crappy way to pay people, and now many workers are realizing their error, as they've taken less pay for years only to see their pensions get yanked out from under them. I would never take less money now in exchange for ethereal pensions later.

That said, do the math. of you do, you realize that the pension obligations stated in the article are something like 150K a head, total. If you live to 85, that's like 7K a year. A friggin' pittance.
 
330Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 18:09
It isn't that the packages are too generous. It is that they were. The problem isn't the packages for the current workers but the retirees.

If by "gaming the system" you mean "follow the contractual obligations to obtain the contractually-mandated benefits" then you are entirely correct.
 
331Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 18:22
The packages are entirely too generous. - B

no doubt. but that's the deal that was struck - Tree


The seldom stated corruption in the system, is that this is no adversarial market forces negotiation.

This is Dem machine pols helping their campaign workers rip us off.
 
332Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Sun, Feb 28, 2010, 21:17


I suppose it's wishful thinking just saying there's a problem with civil service pensions and double-dipping, without making partisan claims, invoking blue shirted SIEU union thugs, but for those interested in reality,
Republican and religiously dominated Utah has the same problems.
 
333Frick
      ID: 14119248
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 08:38
It happens to people from both parties. There are a number of ways to game the system. When I worked for a local government I knew a number of people that were going to be triple dippers. They were in the military and put in the minimum time to get a full pension. I want to say it was 20 years. So if they joined at 18, they could retire from the military at 38. In Indiana to retire with a pension you need to reach 85 with a total of your age and years of service. So if you worked around 23 years you could retire at 61 with 2 full pensions and social security.

Another loophole was firefighters and police officers. They were exempt from Social Security on their pay. But they could still get Social Security if they worked another side job that took out SS.
 
334biliruben
      ID: 16105237
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 08:44
Firefighters do seem to have it pretty good. At least around here, they work so little, they can easily have a full-time side gig.

But shouldn't they have it good?
 
335Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 08:45
PV

I can certainly point to double dipping republicans in Illinois because the machine in Illinois is one party and the republicans and dems are both in it.

That said, the blue shirted SEIU thugs only support Dems for what are obvious reasons to me.
 
336Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 08:47
At least that's true in greater Chicago. Less so the further you get from that political cesspool.
 
337biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 13:25
I'd much rather have workers in the streets than lobbyists in the back room. I can guarantee there is a thousand times as much influence when the dollars start flowing.

The end result of one sort of "corruption" is a some union workers perhaps get a bit higher compensation, which then generally flows back into the economy.

The end result of the other type of corruption is that fat-cats rake in 8 and 9 figure bonuses, and destroy the world financial system.

I think it's clear which we should be a bit more worried about.
 
338boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 14:37
The end result of one sort of "corruption" is a some union workers perhaps get a bit higher compensation, which then generally flows back into the economy.

or it goes bankrupts and gets bailed out by the government and the cycle continues.
 
339Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 14:44
Bankruptcy invalidates union contracts, so it isn't clear that your example would continue at all. Bankruptcy does not (by and large) invalidate any pension obligations, however.

The problem, by and large, isn't current union contracts, as much as Boldwin like to make the working class a bunch of boogeymen.
 
340Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 15:24
Better look a little closer because some states have even added a law that makes it so these pensions can't be bankrupted out. I am thinking California is one of them.
 
341biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 16:12
I bloody well hope so.

If you had foregone social security and taken lower wages throughout your working life in exchange for pensions, and then had your pension wiped out, so dumpster diving for rotting cat food at age 75 was now your best option, that would be pretty much criminal.
 
342boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 16:43
some states have even added a law that makes it so these pensions can't be bankrupted out.

how does that work?
 
343Biliruben movin
      ID: 358252515
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 16:51
Prolly something similar to pbgc.

Do you really think it's ok to screw people out of their
retirement?
 
344boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 16:58
I have no opinion on this. that is why i was asking how it worked. I mean if it is a contract then it needs to be honored or at least to some point.

I think screwed is misleading term. if a company misuses funds then you are being screwed if you widgets are no longer popular, I don't think you got screwed. That is bad luck.
 
345Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 17:30
I think you're right boikin--the pensions are contractually structured. By screwed, I think bili is referring to the idea that the retirees should lose what was coming to them by contract.
 
347bibA
      ID: 01116297
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 17:56
All I know is that I worked 33 years on my civil service job. I didn't quit in the early years to try something new and possibly exciting because I was adding years toward my pension. Which ultimately I am receiving. So YES, I would feel royally screwed if the fund were to go broke, leaving me with no income. And no, I do not feel like I am somehow bilking the system, as it was a mutual contract between myself and the government I worked for.

Personally I did not retire so that I could go back to work, either towards additional income, or a second retirement. However, I do not feel that those who may opt to do so are doing anything wrong or crooked.

Any retirement package is a part of an overall agreement which may include not only a salary, but other benefits such as medical insurance and a pension package.
 
348Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 19:41
Just look at some of those california towns tho. They are gonna have zero civil services very shortly. Just a few hundred wealthy insiders.

Eat the rich. 8]
 
349biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 19:51
That's because they made it near impossible to raise taxes 30 years ago. I believe they enshrined it in their constitution.

There are certainly some abuses that unions in California are responsible for - the prison guards are one glaring example, but that's not why California is bankrupt.
 
350Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 20:59
Taxes being the liberal solution to everything, lets just tax civil service pensions. I am sure those civic minded liberals would find it a privilege to pay taxes on into their retirement years.
 
351Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Mar 01, 2010, 22:57
True. But the biggest problem isn't civil service pensions (though that's not the smallest). The biggest problem is that California taxpayers have chosen to both limit the ability of the state to collect revenue and compel it to spend billions of dollars through a ridiculously easy referendum system.

A recipe for disaster.
 
352biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 18:42
Here in Seattle, SIEU linking arms with Republicans.

That said, the blue shirted SEIU thugs only support Dems for what are obvious reasons to me.

I guess things aren't quite as obvious anymore.
 
353Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 04:01
PD

And yet they can still sell a trailer for a million bucks in that state. One strange dystopia.

SZ

Even SEIU realizes more taxes equal fewer jobs...get Obama on the phone. While you are at it, put that in yer own pipe and smoke it.
 
354sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 11:56
Really Boldwin? If it were true, that "more taxes equals fewer jobs", then it would HAVE to follow that "less taxes equals more jobs".

Yet after GWB cut taxes the way he did, this nation ost jobs at a nearly unprecedented rate. (As evidenced by a table linked by bili IIRC in another thread.)

link
 
355Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 13:17
Well maybe you're right, Sarge.

When the marxist-in-chief gets the taxes up to 100% we'll see if we achieve full employment with good jobs. Other than for party elites and secret police.
 
356DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 14:16
I will give you 1,000,000:1 odds on your $1 that this does not happen.

Please contact me in January 2019 to find out where you can ship your dollar.
 
357biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 15:23
re: 353

SZ?!? Insults will get you know where. ;)

I would guess janitors understand where the money in trickle-down economics gets clogged in the pipes. I doubt their union leaders really care. You should really show some consistency in your arguments of union corruption if you want to regain a modicum of credibility.
 
358biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 16:36
Know where! Nowhere.
 
359sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Wed, Mar 03, 2010, 21:11
Your continued claims of marxist, render most all of your recent commentaries absolutely moot. Unless/until you are prepared to HONESTLY discuss/evaluate...you can get by with one post, just slip in the appropriate name:

Yet another marxist agenda fast forwarded by XXXXXXXX. Yet all of you fail to see how the marxist XXXXXXXX is going to destroy this country.


Pretty much, that's the sum total of anything you have had to say, about ANYONE with a "D" behind their name instead of an "R".

Truly Boldy, we get it. You hate, loathe, despise and fear...anything and everything to the left of AC. Now, can you add something other than words/views which are 100% predictable?
 
360Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 00:36
Much as this and most every other thread seems to deteriorate into:

> marxist-in-chief
> blue shirted SEIU thugs
> Taxes being the liberal solution to everything

type rhetoric, it is after all a Sarah Palin thread.

Sarah Palin is making the most of her time in LA.

Fresh off her appearance on the "Tonight Show," Palin is meeting with network executives to pitch a reality show alongside "Survivor" creator Mark Burnett.

Entertainment Weekly's Michael Ausiello reports that Palin and Burnett are shopping a "TV docudrama about Alaska" to executives at Fox, CBS, and NBC. According to one of Ausiello's sources, the show is a "planet-Earth type look" at Alaska.

The Live Feed's James Hibberd reports that Palin and her family would appear on-camera on the show.


Her time in LA? Uh, isn't that Hollywood? The same Hollywood
she also warned against "anti-hunting, anti-Second Amendment circuses from Hollywood" that use "delicate, tiny celebrity starlets" to push their cause. ?

Well, Sarah certainly has taught us something about circuses. As the Britney Spears of politics, she's now abandoned any pretense of being a serious spokesperson on any issue except how much money one can make by quitting a job that people elected her to do.
 
361Mith
      ID: 58136177
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 08:25
the Britney Spears of politics
 
362walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 13:09
LOL
 
363Tree
      ID: 23143812
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 13:42
As the Britney Spears of politics

you are giving Palin WAY too much credit.
 
364Frick
      ID: 14224413
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 14:24
I'm not sure who would be more offended by that statement.

Actually I'm not sure who would be capable of figuring the statement out.
 
365Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 15:38
I hope that doesn't mean she's no longer wearing underwear.
 
366Tree
      ID: 23143812
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 15:47
I hope that doesn't mean she's no longer wearing underwear.

at least one poster here will take that as a win, and will be taking that image to the restroom for a private moment. and no, it's not me. I'm not that bold.
 
367Boldwin
      ID: 421172615
      Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 16:41
Some inhabit underpasses, some ooze up from the sewer.
 
368Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Mar 05, 2010, 19:24
Laugh track added to Palin's Leno appearance
 
369Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 16:56
Todd Palin: Padding his environment-chewing habit with money from Hugo Chavez.
 
370Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 17:16
oh man. that is even better than Palin going to Canada for health care or Rush going to Costa Rica for...well, i guess, health care.

outstanding.
 
371Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 17:24
 
372Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Wed, Mar 10, 2010, 09:42
no comment here on the boards, and no comment from the Palin camp either...

A Palin adviser referred questions to the Iron Dog race organizers.
 
373Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Wed, Mar 10, 2010, 10:27
I realize that if Obama's family was involved in a venture in which a Venezualan company was involved as a sponsor there would be non-stop accusations of supporting a socialist dictator, but it's really a non-story for me.

The concern should be about the wanton disrespect of fragile ecosystems that cross country snow machine racing embraces.
 
374Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Mar 10, 2010, 18:54
HT: Andrew Sullivan

 
375biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 16:29
He he. Sarah took some shots at the wrong Congressman.

Palin, the former half-term Governor, current-nothing and future-even-less, charmed the all-Republican audience with her folksy folksiness and her homespun homespunnery. Atypically, Palin was wearing clothes that she had paid for herself. At the end of the event, she shared her recipe for mooseface pie.

In response to Palin's attack on Rep Grayson, Grayson actually complimented Palin. Grayson praised Palin for having a hand large enough to fit Grayson's entire name on it. He thanked Palin for alleviating the growing shortage of platitudes in Central Florida. Grayson added that Palin deserved credit for getting through the entire hour-long program without quitting. Grayson also said that Palin really had mastered Palin's imitation of Tina Fey imitating Palin. Grayson observed that Palin is the most-intelligent leader that the Republican Party has produced since George W. Bush.

When asked to comment about what effect Palin's criticism might have, Grayson pointed out, "As the Knave's horse says in Alice in Wonderland, 'dogs will believe anything.'" Earlier, as the Orlando Sentinel reported, Grayson said, "I'm sure Palin knows all about politics in Central Florida, since from her porch she can see Winter Park," which is part of Grayson's district.

Grayson said that the Alaskan chillbilly was welcome to return to Central Florida anytime, as long as she brings lots of money with her, and spends it. "I look forward to an honest debate with Governor Palin on the issues, in the unlikely event that she ever learns anything about them," Grayson added, alluding to Politifact's "liar, liar, pants on fire" evaluation of much of what Palin has said .

Scientists are studying Sarah Palin's travel between Alaska and Florida carefully. They hope to learn more about the flight patterns of that elusive migratory species, the wild Alaskan dingbat.


Ouch!
 
376Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 16:51
Nice. Had to steal that one for facebook.
 
377sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 16:52
lmao. I stole it and posted it on another forum. :)
 
378biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 16:56
I should probably give credit as well - hat-tip Kleiman
 
379Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 17:13
wow. that was a bitch slap - and a well-deserved one - if there ever was one.

i too stole it for FB.
 
380walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 17:22
That is one of the funniest retorts ever. I would kill myself if I was on the receiving end of that. Bill Maher is likely bowing down in servitude.
 
381biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 17:27
It reminded me a bit of Colbert's schtick at the press luncheon. So biting and uncomfortably close to the mark, you feel awkward laughing.
 
382walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 17:45
Yeah, Colbert is about the wittiest poli satirist on earth. I cannot fathom how he basically does a one-man show every night, and never loses it. I oughtta go to a taping one of these days...so close by. Daily Show, too. I DVR them every night and watch about 2x-3x per week.
 
383Boldwin
      ID: 53228720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 19:06
With Joe Biden a heartbeat from the presidency, all they can think about is Palin. Talk about yer wasted comedic opportunity.
 
384biliruben
      ID: 461142511
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 19:13
I think you may be a bit temporally challenged.

It was Palin flying down to Fla to take potshots and Grayson. He simply retorted with some humorous one-liners ripping Palin's gaping and obvious flaws.
 
385Boldwin
      ID: 53228720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 20:13
Obama's ears are a comedic opportunity. Dean's scream was a comedic opportunity. Qayle's spelling gaffe was a comedic opportunity.

None of them carried the slightest legitimacy or significance other than the fact that mocking and especially group mocking works at the kindergarten level of the brain.

Obama's ears would be just as damaging if his critics were like liberal pod-people. Unfortunately for the left/right balance, conservatives are too decent to use it to the full.
 
386Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Wed, Mar 17, 2010, 20:42
The difference between the examples you gave and Sarah Palin is that Palin keeps putting her foot in it, whether it's BS or her mouth.

The mockery of her is deserved because her actions could have disasterous consequences, because she is simply inept.

She's fairly clueless, and there are moments when her blind defenders realize there's no defense, and instead, resort to silence (example being the Palin's financial relationship with Chavez being totally ignored by you, her biggest fan on this board)
 
387sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 08:16
None of them carried the slightest legitimacy or significance other than the fact that mocking and especially group mocking works at the kindergarten level of the brain.

Then please explain, the popularity on the Right with AC, Rush and Beck.
 
388DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 09:38
Um, he did?
 
389Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 09:57
Conservatives are too busy making up stuff about the health care bill to make fun of Obama's ears.

But there is a clear difference between Quayle's verbal gaffe's and Obama's ears. It may be they haven't gotten to mocking his ears yet. Or maybe, as Boldwin asserts, they are above that. But it is a lot easier to just make up stuff about the man and slam him for those things, I think.
 
390sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 10:00
above it, yet they fabricate falsehoods on a daily basis? I think PD, there is NO LOW, to which they are "above".
 
391Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 10:01
I also think that conservatives instinctively know that mocking this president's physical traits can easily turn into bad blowback for them. I don't believe it has anything to do with being "decent," which, by any measure, has virtually never been exhibited by conservatives toward this president.

I'm surprised they don't make a sign with their fingers and spit on the ground when he walks by them during the SOTU.
 
392Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 10:23
Boldwin claims in virtually every post that Obama is intentionally running this country into the group, yet he wants to claim that conservatives have some sort of moral high ground? Hilarious.
 
393sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Thu, Mar 18, 2010, 13:03
We Dems can only HOPE, the Reps are stubborn enough to nominate Palin in 2012. I can think of no more certain a way, to ensure a 2nd term for Obama.
 
394Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 22:33
Sarah Palin getting slammed for an interview show in which she doesn't actually interview anyone. Both LL Cool J and Toby Keith are questioning why their old interviews are being re-hashed and promoted as though they have been newly-interview by Palin.
 
395Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 23:21
Re #394

Not suprisingly, conservative website Newsmax gives a completely fallacious headline:


Palin Dumps Rapper from Fox News Show

"Contrary to what was reported, LL Cool J was never scheduled to be a guest on 'Real American Stories' with Sarah Palin this week," Rhett Usry, the artist's spokesman, said in a statement on Wednesday. "The show had planned to use an interview from 2008 that was being repurposed without LL's permission.

in a statement released to other media outlets, the network said: "'Real American Stories' features uplifting tales about overcoming adversity and we believe Mr. Smith's interview fits that criteria. However, as it appears that Mr. Smith does not want to be associated with a program that could serve as an inspiration to others, we are cutting his interview from the special and wish him the best with his fledgling acting career."

link

How can you dump someone who never gave permission to be on the show? And it doesn't appear Palin had anything to do with it. I get Newsmax in my email box every day. They, along with WND,are worse than the National Enquirer as far as misleading sensationalistic headlines. It's unfortunate that this type of garbage is what defines the modern conservative.
 
396Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Mar 31, 2010, 23:54
They dumped him when he questioned what the story was about the old interview.

Technically Newsmax is right: He was not scheduled to be a guest on the show. That's because no one is scheduled to be a guest--these are all old interviews repackaged in promos as though Palin was interviewing them.

"Contrary to what was reported [as a direct result of our leading promos]..."
 
397Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Thu, Apr 01, 2010, 09:30
"Mr. Smith does not want to be associated with a program that could serve as an inspiration to others, we are cutting his interview from the special and wish him the best with his fledgling acting career."

People take this organization seriously as a news outlet? They can't even issue a press release without taking a dig at someone. Pathetic.
 
398tree on the treo
      ID: 287212811
      Thu, Apr 01, 2010, 10:32
I like the "fledgling acting career" comment, considering LL Cool J has been acting in films for nearly 20 years, and has been the star in two different TV series, including the current NCIS.
 
399Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Thu, Apr 01, 2010, 15:52
Is this the video equivalent of those hokey radio spots where the DJ interviews a canned interviewee? Hard to see how producers with production values like that are trouncing.
 
400Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Apr 01, 2010, 15:58
I think she will be doing segues and an overall introduction. The promos, however, make it sound like she will be interacting with these people in fresh interviews she will be conducting.

The irony, IMO, is that she can almost certainly do this work without breaking a sweat, but FOX is clearly coddling her and making her to look more foolish for doing it, as though she needs protection from live interviewing. They are treating her like a boxing champ in which they set her up with some patsies on the way to the championship bout.
 
401astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 00:05
but FOX is clearly coddling her and making her to look more foolish for doing it.

Perhaps and it is a bit of deja vu. Didn't this just happen in 2008 when she was running for VP? The interviews were few and far between and only with 'trusted' interviewers...how did that work out?

 
402Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 08:46
Razor 397
That's pretty offensive on the part of FNC. Unless the earlier press release from Cool J's camp was harsher than Newmax reported, the shot from FNC was totally unwarranted. They were in the wrong for using (and also promoting for further use) material which did not belong to them.

PD 400
I'm guessing conducting interviews would probably be a greater investment in time than Palin cares to commit to for this program. If she's just the celebrity host (as opposed to someone who does the work of conducting interviews) she can show up at the studio (or maybe just bring her cup of coffee right from her kitchen into the full-service, full-transmission capability television studio that FOX built for her in her home in Wasilla) and tape all the introductions, closings and commercial bumps for 10 episodes in just a few hours.
 
403Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 09:01
Also, conducting interviews costs money. If they have a collection of recent interviews collecting dust on a shelf, this show provides a low-budget (aside from whatever they pay Sarah) quick and dry way to put that material to use and fill up some programming slots. If the format takes off, you can have Sarah conduct the interviews for the following season or (more likely) send a field producer out to do another season's worth of interviews on location and bring them back to NY for post-production.
 
404boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 11:28
but FOX is clearly coddling her and making her to look more foolish for doing it.

maybe FOX is trying to destroy her as media wing of the republican party they need to make sure she can not actually cause to much damage.
 
405Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 14:09
I think FOX has its own agenda. For a long time many assumed that FOX News is the media arm of the Republican Party. I believe it is actually the other way around. I don't think FOX gives a crap about the GOP.

A party of yahoo, angry tea baggers is awful for the GOP. But it is exactly what FOX needs, especially when faced with the prospect of four to eight years of a decent, quietly competent President in Obama. FOX News requires controversy, all the time, and will generate it if they have to.
 
406astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 02:18
RE 402/403:

MITH, you raise fair points and it speaks to your experience in that realm. As an outsider, it befuddles me that Palin would enter into a similar quagmire that she openly discussed in her book.

 
407Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 12:49
Despite the contentions she offered in her book and on the campaign trail (and on her facebook page) she obviously has no problem with MSM as long as the bias is favorable toward her. Further, as an employee of the FNC, she forces a blatant conflict of interest on their part to her benefit.

I guess you could argue that it's not a conflict of interest since the network's pro-Palin bias was already well established as their "interest". But it gets a lot harder for a news organization to deny nonobjective or favorable coverage of an actively public figure when she's on the payroll.
 
408Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 13:08
Somehow I don't think George Stephanopoulis or Sumner Redstone lose any sleep over it.
 
409Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 13:13
I'm not sure of your point.
 
410Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 20:58
How is Palin more of a political operator than Stephanopoulis? This is SOP in the MSM. Doesn't even draw a comment. Let alone breathless incredulity.
 
411Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 21:05
Palin was never a political operator. She was (and is) a politician.
 
412Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Sat, Apr 03, 2010, 21:59
What is she running for? She is purely a political operative atm.
 
413sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 06:00
odd. I dont recall EVER seeing Stephanopoulis or Redstone's names on a national ballot. Yet Boldwin doesn't see any difference between they and the most recent VP candidate in terms of their chosen careers?

So tell me B, would the Assistant to the Under Secretary of whatever; ALSO count as a politician/operative in your mind?
 
414Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 08:38
I guess Redstone went over your head, well the whole thing did. Yes, there is a revolving door between party and media. Palin working for Fox isn't breaking any new ground.
 
415sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 08:45
well no. ANY "mouthpiece" for the RNC 'working for FOX', isnt breaking any new ground. Neither, does her FOX contract, negate her status as a politican.
 
416Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 09:19
I don't know of any media talent who actively stumps for candidates, addresses crowds at organized political gatherings, actively works to keep him/herself in the political spotlight and is a fixture in the discussion for a major party nomination in the next presidential election other than Mike Huckabe and Sarah Palin.

George Stephanopolous and Sumner Redstone are not politicians.
 
417Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 09:40
To be clear, to my knowledge Palin (and maybe Mike Huckabe) are the only active politicianss who most people believe will again seek office (and have not themselves denied that liklihood) and have taken on-air jobs in the news media. So FOX is absolutely breaking new ground.

There are plenty of examples of people who worked for government who went on to media careers; Stephanopolous, Tony Snow, John McLaughlin, Pat Buchanan, Peggy Noonan, James Carville, etc.

But the number of actual politicians who move on to news media careers is much smaller. I can only think of Joe Scarborough to add to Palin and Huckabe. And I was critical of MSNBC for hiring Scarborough, though it does appear that Scarborough's political career is over, or at least legitimately on hold, which is certainly not the case with Palin. According to Wiki, he was approached by FL Republicans about running for Congress in 2005 and again in 2009 and he hasn't been interested.

If Scarborough was using his job at MSNBC as a means to keep himself in the political spotlight, if he was out there on the stump and directly addressing voters at tea party rallies, he and MSNBC would be deserving of the same criticism as Palin and FOX.
 
418Boldwin
      ID: 362262121
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 13:45
Did I miss it when you answered my question which job she was campaigning for or were you just splashing around hoping I wouldn't notice?
 
419DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 14:06
So, if she ever runs for something again will you apologize for being laughably wrong again or will you continue to hide under your rock?
 
420sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 15:01
I for one, dont doubt for one second that her ego is large enough to believe that by keeping out front with this 'tea party' garbage, and her 'gosh darn it' shtick; that she thinks she can fool enough people into buying it that she has a shot at a Pres bid.

I for one, hope she is right. Let the RNC demonstrate just precisely how far out of reality they have fallen.
 
421Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 21:38
Is Baldwin under the impression that a person needs to be actively campaigning to be considered a politician?
 
422DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sun, Apr 04, 2010, 22:33
When it suits him, obviously.
 
423Boldwin
      ID: 535651
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 02:56
We are dividing the line between politician and political operative. Not a lot of space between them but something the sharper minds around here should be capable of, and the trolls, not so much.
 
424Boldwin
      ID: 535651
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 03:06
And the reason we are making such a fine distinction is because, while it wouldn't usually be terribly relevant, it does matter a bit when the MSM or FOX rotate them between politics and commentary, free campaign advertisement...that kinda thing.

I am sure I can come up with ten high level well known Democrat party operatives at the Carville level who rotate in and out between party roles and media jobs as if the MSM were a deliberate cash cow to keep these guys steadily employed.

You all are well within your rights and making a significant point worth noting when FOX news rotates in Karl Rove, Palin, Rollins, Roger Ailes.

It would be a bigger point if it were a free campaign ad for an active candidate.
 
425Boldwin
      ID: 535651
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 03:10
#421 PD

And we'd all have more fun if you didn't rotate between newbie politician and Dem talking points hack who understands this stuff well enuff to be dangerous...

...and troll playing dumb.
 
426sarge33rd
      ID: 280311620
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 07:48
when was the last time Carville, was a candidate on the ballot for national office?

Carville = operative, in a lose sense of the word.

Palin = Politician; in EVERY sense of the word.


Talk about "playing dumb".
 
427Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 08:43
newbie politician who [doesn't] understands this stuff well enuff to be dangerous.

Boy has that man's impression of Palin changed, huh?
 
428DWetzel at work
      ID: 49962710
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 09:49
"Not a lot of space between them but something the sharper minds around here should be capable of, and the trolls, not so much."

You're demonstrating the troll aspect quite nicely with the Carville comment. Keep it up, you're doing a better job of proving my point than I'd like to take the time to do.
 
429Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 09:52
...and troll playing dumb

I'm a troll, you say?

And this doesn't violate civility policy because...?

Explain or delete. Or watch as I rotate between "regular poster" and "moderator."
 
430Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Mon, Apr 05, 2010, 10:03
and troll playing dumb.

see post 425...oh, wait.
 
431Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 17:01
Obama pushes back on Palin criticism

President Barack Obama snapped back at Sarah Palin and her criticisms about his nuclear defense policy, calling the former Alaska governor "not much of an expert on nuclear issues."

Obama's comments came when asked for a response about a Palin critique that he was like a kid poised for a playground fight who said 'Go ahead, punch me in the face and I'm not going to retaliate. Go ahead and do what you want to with me."

"I really have no response," Obama told ABC News. "Because last I checked, Sarah Palin's not much of an expert on nuclear issues."
 
432Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 14:35
Palin plucks quotes out-of-context because her arguments would lack a point, otherwise.
 
434DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 15:57
Amazingly, despite your particular assumption here, I:

a) had nothing to do with anything being deleted, as far as I know, and

b) Every single post number seems to be present, which they aren't when posts get deleted.


So, um, would you mind apologizing for your unfounded accusation?
 
435Boldwin
      ID: 11301223
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 16:19
I saw the numbers but it's incomprehensible that we've only had one post since the 5th in this thread. I wonder where the Palin posts are going?
 
436Farn @ work
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 16:27
Are you now hinting that Guru rewrote the coding for the forum to eliminate posts about Palin while not eliminating the post #s?
 
437Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 16:35
It's sign #62 from the book the Alinsky/Ayers book PLUNGING A DEMOCRACY INTO MARXISM FOR DUMMIES.
 
438Boldwin
      ID: 11301223
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 16:46
Quote: incomprehensible: as in 'cannot understand what I am seeing'.
 
439Farn @ work
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 17:10
What part did you not understand? There isn't a single post missing and yet you question where all the Palin posts are going. So either you are that genuinely stunned that there are no Palin posts or you are indicating someone is eliminating posts.
 
440Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 17:24
FTR post 431 was written on April 9th, not April 5th.

I think most of the recent mentions of Sarah Palin in this forum have occurred within the context of other, ongoing discussions in other threads. Over the weekend for example the topic shifted to her in the 2010 Elections thread.
 
441C1-NRB
      ID: 2911103011
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 17:57
The way numbers work in my world, what would have been post #433 is not there.
 
442Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 22:39
Yeah, post #433 was Boldwin stating that either someone was deleting posts about Sarah Palin or somehow, inconceivably, people weren't posting about her.
 
443Boldwin
      ID: 11301223
      Tue, Apr 20, 2010, 16:35
I both noted that the numbers didn't indicate anything deleted, and vividly remembered a healthy recent back-and-forth regarding Palin. In particular, I was also certain that PD's little threat to delete, had been further back in the discussion.
 
444Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, May 03, 2010, 13:16
For those keeping score at home...
 
445Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 12:33
Bristol Palin to hit speakers' circuit

Get that scrilla while you can, girlie! Your mama taught you well...



 
446Seattle Zen
      ID: 1410391215
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 13:08
Bristol Palin, 19, is listed on the speaking group's website as available for conferences... and abstinence programs.


Ahhhhh, what exactly does she know about abstinence?
 
448Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 14:00
#446 is an exceptional post if the intent is to try to live up to Boldwin's asessment of your character.
 
449Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 14:00
err #447.
 
450Boldwin
      ID: 184151813
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 14:15
Down
 
451Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, May 18, 2010, 14:34
446 is an exceptional post if the intent is to try to live up to Boldwin's asessment of your character.

i think the Palin's are in it for the money. i also find their hypocrisy on various things to be astonishing.
 
452Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Wed, May 19, 2010, 02:18
I don't know how anyone could do anything but pity Bristol Palin.

She looks so meek and unlike her mom. Any free thought the poor girl has in her mind doesn't stand a chance.


But whatever you *think* of her, #447 is a disgusting mockery of someone you've never met, has never done anything to you and whom you couldn't possibly know anything about, including whether she is in it for the chedda

much less for 'D'.

Seriously, wtf is the matter with you? You're fuking 40 years old.
 
453Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Wed, May 19, 2010, 08:00
most of this board consists of mockeries of people we haven't met, be there last name Palin, Obama, Clinton, or Bush.

SNL. Funny or Die. The Onion. everywhere you look, someone is being mocked.
 
454chode
      ID: 4744089
      Thu, May 20, 2010, 10:59
re: 452
outstanding

 
455Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Thu, May 20, 2010, 13:41
447 has been deleted due to a combination of bad taste and not being terribly funny.
 
456Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, May 24, 2010, 14:27
Palin's attempt to make hay about the BP disaster goes over worse than tree's joke.

If I were of the "drill baby drill" crowd I'd just be shutting up about now, then cheer American ingenuity when BP finally stops the thing. Otherwise, you end up just looking stupid.
 
457Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, May 26, 2010, 13:07
Want to know how to make Palin's paranoia go into overdrive? Be a journalist. And move next door.
 
458Mith
      ID: 482583111
      Wed, May 26, 2010, 15:28

love it.
 
459Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Thu, Jun 10, 2010, 11:40
i suppose there is a little less that is "real" about Sarah Palin now...

or, perhaps, more, dependng on how you spin it...
 
460DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Jun 10, 2010, 11:52
I remember when Reagan got a boob job. That symbolized everything that was right about America.
 
461Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 09:45
What is she talking about?

"Do they think, really, that we're getting anything in return for all this bowing and kowtowing and apologizing? No, we don't get anything positive in return for this," Palin said at the event spearheaded by a Norfolk talk radio station.

"So while President Obama is getting pushed around by the likes of Russia and China, our allies are left to wonder about the value of an alliance with our country any more. They're asking what is it worth," she said.


Pushed around by the likes of Russia and China? What allies is she talking about, that are asking the worth and value of an alliance with the United States?
This type of intellectually-challenged rhetoric displays a refusal to attempt to understand the complexities of geo-politics.

In the past week,
China pushed us around by raising the value of the yuan.


The move by the central bank came after US President Barack Obama and other leaders used the weekend's G20 meeting in Toronto to intensify pressure on Beijing to let the yuan strengthen.

Wait a minute. That sounds more like the US and its allies are pushing the Chinese around. And what about Russia? Are we kowtowing, bowing and getting nothing positive when it comes to

the situation in Kyrgyzstan?

Barely two weeks after ethnic purges left many minority Uzbek communities in smoldering ruin, about two-thirds of Kyrgyzstan's voters went to the polls Sunday to peacefully and overwhelmingly approve a new constitution they hoped would bring stability to the Central Asian nation.

The vote - supported by the U.N., the U.S. and Russia - is seen as an important step on the road to democracy for the interim government


So, Russia and the US work in harmony to stabilize Kyrgyzstan, where we have an important air base, and borders China.

Our political leaders should be expected to provide knowledgeable analysis about the subjects they engage, as opposed to idiotic soundbites that have no basis in reality. Sarah Palin proves once again that she is unable to grasp the complexities of global politics and is unwilling to even try.
 
462Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Jun 29, 2010, 15:19
Goofs mar Palin's Reagan college tribute, legal fund appeal

so much for knowing her hero: Following in others' grand tradition of demonstrating gaps in knowledge while addressing a university, Sarah Palin told a crowd at a fundraiser at California State University in Stanislaus last weekend that Ronald Reagan, personal hero and inspiration, was a California college graduate. She told the cheering crowd: "This is Reagan country, and perhaps it was destiny that the man who went to California's Eureka College would become so woven within and interlinked to the Golden State."

There's just one problem here: Reagan went to Eureka College in Illinois from 1928 to 1932...


and her legal woes? ooops, how much can she lie?

Meanwhile, the Associated Press reports on a more serious recent mistake of Palin's political organization. Administrators for her legal defense fund accidentally sent out a rough draft of an email to thousands of supporters that falsely claimed she faced "millions of dollars" in legal fees because of "frivolous" ethics suits against her. The corrected version of the email said the fees numbered in the hundreds of thousands, not millions.

Critics say several more claims in the email were not true. The email said 26 of 27 ethics violations against Palin were dismissed outright, which is false: Three moved into the investigative phase. One inquiry resulted in a cash settlement; another found that ethics had been abridged but declined to recommend legal proceedings because the charge involved the dismissal of the head of the Alaska state trooper force, who was an at-will employee of the governor.

The email also alleged that the Democratic National Committee created a website whose goal is to keep Palin out of public office — a charge that the organization says is untrue.
 
463Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Jul 13, 2010, 11:56
Sarah Palin: For Real and For 2012

pretty on point IMHO.

the train wreck should be one of epic proportions.
 
464Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Jul 13, 2010, 13:36
Sure she'll run. And, go down in flames in the primary after making a lot of noise.

She doesn't have the people to run a national campaign well and so it will be known more as a celebrity tour than anything else. She's used to either being governor of a small-population state (in which she can control things, to a large degree) or a celebrity (in which she can control things, to a large degree).

I've said it many times: As a Democrat, I really, really hope she runs. And does well in the primaries. She's the best friend Democrats have.
 
465Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 10:13
A decent summation of where we are with the Trig birth questions
 
466Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Thu, Jul 15, 2010, 11:13
that's certainly some interesting stuff.

regardless of who's child Trig ultimately is, the comparisons to other situations are quite well done.
 
467Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Jul 24, 2010, 12:44
Andy Borowitz might be into something here.
 
468Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 11:39


HT: Tea Party Jesus
 
469Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Fri, Aug 06, 2010, 10:22
From the "Ignorance is Strength" paradigm of the political right:

In an appearance on Fox News Sunday, former Alaska governor Sarah Palin answered questions about extending the Bush tax cuts. She said Democrats are "poised now to cause this largest tax increase in U.S. history. It's a tax increase of $3.8 trillion over the next 10 years, and it will have an effect on every single American who pays an income tax."

The problem is, she's distorting the Democrats' proposals. They plan to raise taxes on the wealthiest tax payers, and it would not result in the largest tax increase in U.S. history. We rated Palin's statement Pants on Fire; read our
complete report for details.



That $3.8 trillion -- the number she wrote on her hand -- is the cost over 10 years if all the Bush tax cuts expired. Democrats say they want to keep the tax cuts for individuals who make less than $200,000 and couples who make less than $250,000.

Palin isn't the only one distorting the Democratic proposals, though.

Rep. Randy Neugebauer, R-Texas, said that "94 percent of small businesses will face higher taxes under the Democrats' plan." This isn't even remotely true --even if the Democrats proposed letting tax cuts expire for all income levels, which they won't.

The actual percent of small businesses who will see a tax increase is more like 3 percent. Because he was so far off, we rated his statement Pants on Fire!
 
470Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Aug 06, 2010, 10:29
The tax cuts were passed by Republicans with an expiration date. Apparently they were being dishonest at the time by including such an expiration date.

They still don't get it. Their entire economic platform is to get into a time machine and go back to the Bush years.
 
471Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Fri, Aug 06, 2010, 13:00
Ignorance is Strength:
She didn't like our rating, and wrote an extensive response via Facebook. She said we went off track because the Democrats don't really have a tax plan.
"Unfortunately for PolitiFact, no such proposal exists. ... Plan? What plan? There is no plan. All we have is smoke and mirrors based on an old Obama campaign pledge that if elected, he would exempt families making less than $250,000 a year from 'any form of tax increases.' ...

"To prevent PolitiFact from making similar mistakes in future, it would be helpful if the White House and the Democratic Congressional leadership finally mustered the courage to table their plans to let the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire. Mr. President, publish your proposals, and we'll duke it out. You can argue in favor of a multi-trillion dollar tax hike in an age of economic uncertainty and mass unemployment, and we'll argue for fiscal sanity combined with serious spending cuts."
Actually, President Obama has proposed formal plans to leave tax rates in place for the middle class while raising taxes on the wealthy -- for example, on pages 39 and 164 of his 2011 budget. We also re-capped Obama's history on tax increases. We rated Palin's latest statement False.

You can see every fact-check we've reported about Sarah Palin on Palin's PolitiFact page.
 
472Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 19:37
The eye roll at about 1:15 says it all.

 
473WiddleAvi
      ID: 352232517
      Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 20:34
PD - You can read the story behind the video here
 
474biliruben
      ID: 34435239
      Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 23:28
That's just embarrassing. She's whining more than my 3 year old.
 
475Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 23:45
Thanks Widdle. I read a couple of short pieces on it already, but it is always good to get another perspective.

What a strange woman she is. Not strange as a woman (or even just a regular person). Just strange how people can think of her as some kind of leader.
 
476The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 13:21
She lived in Alaska. You go neighbor up with polar bears, moose and salmon all day and let's see how normal you are. ;)

You guys totally flamed her during the campaign. And her kids which was inexcusably pathetic. Get over it already. You got your guy in the White House. Move on.
 
477Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 13:36
So long as Palin is still a national figure (including a yet-to-be-declared candidate for POTUS) then all this is certainly relevant. Needed, even.
 
478The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 13:39
A lot of people are national figures.
 
479Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 13:57
She has a tv crew following her around. She gets in an argument with a woman and the people around her as well as her act inappropriately. You recommend the American public should pretend she doesn't exist.

Would you do the same if this was a former VP candidate who was a Democrat?
 
480Tree
      ID: 248472317
      Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 14:25
A lot of people are national figures.

yes, and they're covered by the media and discussed by people as well. Palin should get a pass because she's an idiot?
 
481Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 12:39
Karen Handel concedes GA GOV race. Palin stumped hard for Handel, as a fellow "mama grizzly."
 
482Boldwin
      ID: 477201118
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 19:48
I have no idea why that video was supposed to be damaging to Palin.
 
483Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 19:52
I agree with you Baldwin. Nothing in that video makes me think any less of Sarah Palin.
 
484Frick
      ID: 54746117
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 20:24
I completely agree Farn. I think there very, very few people who will have their opinion of her changed after that video.
 
485Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 21:41
I'm not sure that "changing opinion" on Palin is really the point. Those who don't see anything wrong with her eyerolling at finding out someone she disagrees with is a teacher are probably rolling their eyes themselves.

It is an insight into the kind of leader she would be, however, that she does it. It isn't about whether any of you three are running for office yourselves.
 
486Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 21:52
PD, I won't speak for Frick but I think you may have misinterpreted my post. :)
 
487Frick
      ID: 54746117
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 23:01
Same for me.

The people who love her, will see nothing wrong.

The people who don't care for her already have plenty to not like about her.

She's a fairly polarizing personality. IMO she was a huge negative to McCain and her support is a (I hope) minority, albeit a very vocal minority.
 
488Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 23:36
Sorry--I overread the posts. You're right.

It is funny--I know a *huge* Palinite here who is also involved in local government, and he absolutely doesn't believe Palin was a problem for McCain. In fact, he thinks the reason they lost is that Palin was "muzzled" during the campaign.

A pretty nice guy. Until politics is brought up, then he turns into Ben Quayle.
 
489Pancho Villa
      ID: 29118157
      Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 00:15
I have no idea why that video was supposed to be damaging to Palin.

Aren't you the one always complaining about "thugs"?

According to Widdle Avi's link in #473:

Todd Palin approached Billy (who owns a business called Dockside Fish and buys halibut on that dock) and asked him to get out of the Discovery crew’s shot. “You just can’t get enough of her, can you?” he asked. An Alaska State Trooper told Billy he should call the Homer Police Department and report the trespassing and destruction of property.

That would have played well for the celebrity martyrdom image Palin has worked so hard to develop. It's the media; it's the liberals; it's the environmentalists; it's the Alaskan teacher and her commercial fisherman husband. To these real Alaskans, Palin is the poster girl for elitism.


 
490Mith
      ID: 2672547
      Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 01:39
More
On the public dock, private security patted down private citizens. The Fourth Amendment protects citizens from unreasonable search and seizure from their government. Private security searching private citizens in a public place, doesn’t fall under that category. It’s a bit more hinky.

Whether it was TLC or the Palins who contracted security, under what authority did they operate in a public location? Were they looking for weapons? Well, now there’s a Second Amendment issue.

This is Alaska, we carry guns. You can open-carry or acquire a concealed weapons permit from the state. If you are a law abiding citizen, you don’t even need a permit. Sarah Palin recently endorsed Alaska Tea Party Candidate Joe Miller for US Senate. His supporters carried assault rifles in last month’s Golden Days Parade in Fairbanks. If weapons are good enough for a public parade, weapons should be fine at a public dock.

Maybe it wasn’t about guns. Maybe it was about cameras. In that case, it’s a First Amendment issue. Whether Palin had a problem with the First Amendment, the Second Amendment or the Fourth Amendment, she contradicted her entourage’s actions at the Homer dock.


In what has become typical tragic irony, Sarah initially claimed to support Kathleen’s First Amendment Rights. But as soon as Billy Sullivan walked toward the dock, one of Palin’s entourage tore down the sign to great applause from her group.



 
491Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 19:16
"This is a person for whom there is no topic too small to lie about," he said. "She lies about everything."
 
492Mith
      ID: 1585036
      Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 14:57
Refresh me please. As I recall we're supposed to hold politicians accountable for the worst behavior and statements of people they have been known to associate with, right?

Personally, I'm at least a little bit more forgiving than that, but I recall well enough being chided as naive for suggesting that such associations don't necessarily indicate the worst possible like-mindedness.

 
493Boldwin
      ID: 57850411
      Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 16:40
There's a mistake.
 
494Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Sep 04, 2010, 18:48
I do hope that's all it is. Really.
 
495Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 10, 2010, 18:29
 
496Boldwin
      ID: 48311016
      Fri, Sep 10, 2010, 18:38
Obviously Ahnold is not qualified to be president then.
 
497Boldwin
      ID: 35816155
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 09:02
Good stuff
In Mauro’s elitist model of America (”What’s the Matter with Kansas“), it is simply inconceivable that middle-class Americans have their own ideas about political issues. Instead, he believes they can only follow and mimic some rightwing elite, in this case Palin. He believes that, absent that external input, middle-class America is completely politically passive and just stands around thinking and doing nothing.

He cannot conceive that Palin is popular and that sometimes her casual comments prove politically devastating because they crystallize the preexisting ideas and concerns of the middle class. He cannot conceive that many middle-class people see themselves and their ideas reflected in Palin and that is why she is popular.

In the end, leftists’ Palin hatred is hatred of middle-class America itself. In their eyes, Palin and the ordinary Americans who see value in her political stances have committed the cardinal sin of rising beyond their station. They have dared to think for themselves and to designate as a flag carrier someone from outside the elite, someone like themselves.

And that is unforgivable.
-----

it is really the existential threat she poses to the left’s spiritual void which is really doing it.

 
498Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 10:47
Self-loathing middle class Palin opposers.

Actually it's her ability to use her ignorance as a political asset that scares this middle class voter.
 
499The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 12:57
Is there anything you agree with her on Mith?
 
500Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 13:26
Of course I can cherry-pick agreeable statements from her speaches and facebook posts. It's important to show outward support for our enlisted. There you go.

But any political position she takes that I might agree with or at least respect (getting our fiscal house back in order for example) is always articulated in the form of gross oversimplifications. She's been on the national political scene for 2 years now and I've watched her become a multi-millionaire and a television celebrity. But I've never heard her offer a detailed comprehensive explanation of any policy she supports or opposes. Instead we get passive references to "Obama's death panel."

What bothers and disappoints me is that this simplistic demagogue has managed to market her folksy ignorance into a full-on cult of personality. Any remaining doubt that she'd achieved that status was eliminated when I noticed that the tea party Senate candidate in DE who beat the establisment guy in yesterday's GOP primary recently started sporting eyeglass frames, makeup and even speech inflection similar to Palin.
 
501Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 18:26
 
502Boldwin
      ID: 57852158
      Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 20:14
Boxer and Pelosi aren't scarier looking?
 
503Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 12:54
I don't think the point is that they look scary. See post 500.



I noted elsewhere today that this tea party penchant for playing dressup might have moved from tricorner hats and teabag adornments to adopting the distinctive look of their favorite Republican cults of personality, as Paul Ryan has been running around with that ridiculous Ronald Reagan hairdo for a while now.
 
504Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 12:57
I'd suggest Rand Paul could adopt the look of his namesake, Ayn Rand, but I'm not sure that he can pull off that much masculanity.
 
505Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 15:36
O'Donnell in 1996: Investigate Bill Clinton for Vince Foster's murder!
 
506Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 15:50
Like Cupid's through Boldy's heart.
 
507Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 15:51
Err... Cupid's arrow
 
508Boldwin
      ID: 288321621
      Thu, Sep 16, 2010, 22:34
I'm liking this flow. 8]
 
509Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 12:19
Re: 501 & 503

Let's not forget that Sarah's now-famous look was not her look before the Republican/McCain people packaged her as such.
 
510Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 12:27
I think you're mistaken there, SZ.

I'm pretty sure this was her official headshot as AK Gov:



Boldy embedded that in the John McCain thread almost 3 weeks before she was added to the ticket. I do think the campaign's image people tamed the poof on top of her head (which she has continued to do since the election) but the overall look is still the same.
 
511The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 12:48
Sarah Palin lives rent free in the minds of liberals apparently. They can't stop thinking about her.
 
512Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:05
sure. And most of us are really, really hoping she gets the 2012 Republican nomination.
 
513The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:09
She will not. most of us are really, really hoping she gets the 2012 Republican nomination And if she wins?
 
514Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:13
The nomination? Great. There is no way she would win a general election against Barack Obama. None. This is a candidate who made McCain's numbers go down. Who couldn't win a debate against Joe "Blowhard" Biden.
 
515The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:17
She is the reason McCain had people at those rallies. I do not believe for a minute that she was a detriment to McCain's campaign. I meant the general election. You say she has no chance but do not discount the growing anger over unemployment. 2012 is not a gimme for Obama by a long shot. In fact I would question the reasoning behind why anybody would vote for him today. Not in a scenario against Palin mind you but in a general concept.
 
516Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:26
Voters at the time agree with my position: Palin weighed down the McCain/Palin ticket.

I have no illusions about an easy Democratic victory two years from now. Except if Palin is the nominee. She's a half-term governor who has shown the ability to actually turn off moderate voters who are the key the any general election.

She (and many in the GOP) are hoping to keep up the drumbeat of pessimism, but counting on the economy limping along for two years and then Obama completely forgetting to hit the campaign trail is a bit of a stretch.

No matter what the GOP does, I think it is clear that they will have a lot of radicals in the hunt for that nomination. Having the GOP version of Mike Dukakis on the other side of the ballot sits well with me.
 
517tree on the evo
      ID: 4251457
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:26
If Palin runs against Obama in 2012, it is an absolute gimme.....you've also made it clear in previous statements that only believe in one issue on a national scale....
 
518The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:36
That is the New York Times. Come on now. This is why I have difficulty citing things here. It is usually the partisan news sites that have an article that leans one way or another. In the case of the NYT, you will have an easier time convincing a liberal that Fox News is credible than telling me the NYT is worth the ink and paper.

She's a half-term governor who has shown the ability to actually turn off moderate voters who are the key the any general election.

Her chances would be much lower than if she had zero executive experience and was, let us say, a community organizer instead? Wait a minute.

No matter what the GOP does, I think it is clear that they will have a lot of radicals in the hunt for that nomination.

2012 will be interesting. If a RINO gets nominated will GOP voters even bother showing up? It will all depend on what Obama has done between now and 2012. Reagan was hated in his first two years as well.
 
519Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:38
You're going to discount the NYT/CBS poll because it was a New York Times poll? That's your only reason?

This is exactly to my point: I'm hoping Sarah Palin gets the nomination because bias for bias' reasons needs to get spanked in the general election.
 
520Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:44
Her campaign would mirror Giuliani's. She'd get the most attention of GOP candidates from both the leftist and rightist media and get propped up as the front runner. And then the primaries would start.

If I'm mistaken and GOP voters really do prove that stupid, I predict the biggest Democrat landslide in my lifetime at least.
 
521The Left Behind
      ID: 66232012
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:46
You are willing to risk it then if she wins the general election. Would it not be better for the country if Obama ran against a strong opponent with qualified different ideas? Why would you wish for the GOP to fall flat on its face? If unemployment does not retreat significantly I will not vote for Obama but my mind is open should he be successful. This is why we need a viable third candidate that Bloomberg would be.
 
522Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:52
you will have an easier time convincing a liberal that Fox News is credible

I don't know of anyone here who has dismissed content from Fox News based solely on the fact that it came from Fox News.

It's established fact that Palin did not in any way boost or help the the ticket and much more likely hampered it. The notion that she got people out to campaign rallies is absurd. When has a major party presidential nominne ever had trouble filling seats at rallies? She may have energized them more than McCain could have but if you judge a nominee's ability to get votes based on how the crowds react at rallies filled with hand-picked supporters then you might as well put on a blindfold and pick your winner by throwing a dart. She has ppractically no credibility among moderate voters and hasn't done anything in the past two years to change that, except among the crowd that thinks reality tv is important.
 
523Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Fri, Sep 17, 2010, 13:55
Would it not be better for the country if Obama ran against a strong opponent with qualified different ideas?

On this I agree. I do hope Republican primary voters are as smart as I give them credit for and look past the Newscorp glamor candidate for someone with substance.
 
524Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 19:01
Christine O'Donnell claims the ability to keep the country from having sex:




I'm not certain whether this is a good or a bad thing. But I'm certainly interested in seeing her superhero costume that goes with that.
 
525Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 11:10
A friend of mine from college writes about the Palin phenomenon.
 
526Boldwin
      ID: 329169
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 11:30
Ever take Lisa to the movie 'Carrie'?
 
527Tree, not at home
      ID: 18342816
      Thu, Oct 28, 2010, 13:38
Rove says Palin lacks ‘gravitas’ to be president

"There are high standards that the American people have" for the presidency, Rove told the Telegraph. "They require a certain level of gravitas. … They want to look at the candidate and say, 'That candidate is doing things that [give] me confidence that they are up to the most demanding job in the world.'"

The ex-governor's reality show, "Sarah Palin's Alaska," doesn't fit that bill, Rove said. "With all due candor, appearing on your own reality show on the Discovery Channel -- I am not certain how that fits in the American calculus of 'That helps me see you in the Oval Office,'" Rove said. The strategist said the show's trailer—in which Palin says she'd rather be in Alaska than in "some stuffy old political office"—is particularly damaging and could haunt a potential 2012 campaign.
 
528Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 11:25
Sarah Palin's got some censorship issues on Facebook.

Can't be challenging the diva, can we?
 
529Boldwin
      ID: 2710491010
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 12:02
Interesting story but do you seriously expect us to believe there is something wrong with editing our own facebook wall to make sure it reflects our views?

And no Tree, you may not post to my wall.
 
530walk
      ID: 348442710
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 12:29
Funny, second sentence in #529. Regarding first sentence, it's grayer than that. While on the one hand, it's her FB page, on the other hand, she's a very public personality who uses FB as a platform for promoting party ideas and candidates. Suppressing comments seems a bit questionable and arguably, potentially misleads the audience
 
531DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 12:59
Meh, on the list of things to hate about Sarah Palin (or anyone else, for that matter), how they treat Facebook comments is waaaaaaaaaay down the list, roughly on par for me with their choice of ice cream flavors.

I mean, I guess it shows the lengths that a politician will go to control their image in the public eye, but that's not exactly earth-shattering information.
 
532Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 14:55
It is all about control. Much more than about "editing," this is about scrubbing away any dissent.

You think you like Sarah Palin? Wait until you disagree with her on something. Anything. Even a factual mistake on her part.
 
533Tree
      ID: 1410371019
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 20:48
Interesting story but do you seriously expect us to believe there is something wrong with editing our own facebook wall to make sure it reflects our views?

yea, actually, i do. that defeats the whole purpose of Social Media. social media is about two way conversation - it's not like TV commercials, which talk to you - rather, social media is about talking with you.

on the facebook page i started - which has about 250,000 fans, i was very clear on allowing dissenting opinions to be posted, as long as they weren't obviously inflammatory and baiting.

Palin doesn't get it. and neither do you, which comes as no surprise. her life is much easier when she is preaching to her choir - as soon as she has to talk to a more broader audience, the shine quickly rubs off the penny.

And no Tree, you may not post to my wall.

with all the security flaws in Facebook, you're one of the last people i want to be friends with.
 
534Boldwin
      ID: 551039112
      Thu, Nov 11, 2010, 03:40
the shine quickly rubs off the penny - T

When you touch shiny clean things...
 
535Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 12:57
And the inter tubes explode from irony overload...
 
536Tree
      ID: 1410371019
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 13:58
omg LOL LULZ and all that. out. standing.
 
537Boldwin
      ID: 571051214
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:14
Wonder if she got the advice to hire him from the McCain team which is fully in bed with Soros.
 
538Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:18
Pretty clear now that Sarah is too.
 
539Boldwin
      ID: 571051214
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:26
Well no, conservatives are no friend to the government of Burma either. If that is the only tangential connection to Soros...

Knowing Soros' connection with Georgia, maybe there's more.

If you find out that Palin is working with Open Societies groups and taking Soros campaign funds you'll really start to derail her.
 
540Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:28
Not in your mind, I don't think. Nor with many hard core Palinites. There will always be an excuse.
 
541Razor
      ID: 57854118
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:31
I was joking. No one cares about Sarah Palin or connections to Soros except people who are obsessed with Sarah Palin or connections to Soros.
 
542Boldwin
      ID: 571051214
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 15:37
I think that not taking Soros' money should be a hard and fast rule for Reps. An acid test to see if you are for real.
 
543Tree, not at home
      ID: 18342816
      Fri, Nov 12, 2010, 17:18
so, Palin is one degree of seperation from Soros, and her husband's snowmobile team is sponsored by Hugo Chavez.

Guess we might as well pull out the paint brush and color the Palins as socialists, marxists, and communists...and considering she can see Russia from her yard, well, i'm starting to be concerned.
 
544Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 11:58
Palin complaining about liberal blogs contributing to her book's publicity.

Or something like that.

One would have thought that Palin would know whether leaking the book earlier is illegal or not.

The book is rightfully being raked over the coals. It is a typical ghostwritten piece of fluff that advances no real argument (or even real reflection, for that matter).

One thing that no blog, liberal or conservative will complain about: the third-party material is all cleared in that book, thanks to yours truly. Yeah, the guilty all need lawyers and even Sarah Palin deserves the benefit of a top-notch permissions editor. I'm proud to say I did so great work on that book, virtually none of which are reflected in the final product (that's the way I like it--permissions clearance is like proofreading: silent except when there is a mistake.
 
545Frick
      ID: 5310541617
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 13:37
So, you had to read the entire book PD? ugh.

So, for a non-Palin worshiper, is there any reason to read it?
 
546Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 13:46
Not unless they are paying you, in my experience.
 
547Boldwin
      ID: 3410322211
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 14:10
Good grief, now Palin's money may help get PD elected to regulate natural gas trucks or whatever Poconos issue gets his undies twisted.
 
548Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 14:23
Are my undies twisted? You really need to get some other life if that's something you are worrying about.
 
549Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 14:23
The couple of thousand I took off her isn't even a dent in the amount of money she's raking in, sadly.
 
550Boldwin
      ID: 3410322211
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 14:35
Now see I find a nice polite way to avoid saying the proverbial 'panties in a twist' and there's just no appreciation.
 
551Tree, not at home
      ID: 3910441615
      Mon, Nov 22, 2010, 14:51
now Palin's money may help get PD elected

look on the bright side. at least her money might help someone get elected, because it's sure not gonna help her get elected...
 
552Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Mon, Dec 13, 2010, 10:53
Ready for her close up.

Things to do in a cholera camp in Haiti:

-chase out all non-approved journalists for "security reasons"
-get hair fixed for---
-get interviewed by FOX news

 
553Tree
      ID: 2010312116
      Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 14:31
Sarah Palin - SUPER DUPER POPULAR IN ALASKA!

no. not really. actually, they don't really think that highly of her at all.
 
554Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 00:53
The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Petty Woman
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full EpisodesPolitical Humor & Satire BlogThe Daily Show on Facebook
 
555Boldwin
      ID: 10029209
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 10:29
Why they can't hit her often enuff.
But to the insecure, to those who feel the need to tear you down in order to lift themselves up, Palin is an absolute nightmare. Because she’s “not going to sit down…not going to shut up.” Because in the face of vicious attacks and death threats, she continues to prove that she’s bigger and better than those who play dirty. She continues to prove that her family and her faith are her anchors. And she continues to prove that her commitment to principle is impervious to their constant digs. - Read the whole thing
 
556biliruben
      ID: 34435239
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 10:43
Do you have to build everyone you idolize up to near-martyr status?

Can't she be just a pretty good, though slightly dishonest and hypocritical politician, with an extremely ordinary mind, that happens to be telegenic and therefore marginally electable?
 
557Boldwin
      ID: 10029209
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 10:54
You pick the person you want to apply Alinsky Rules For Radicals to and I'll mitigate whichever firestorm you choose to create.
 
558DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 11:11
"But to the insecure, to those who feel the need to tear you down in order to lift themselves up"

Particularly amusing quote to be posted by someone who does more tearing down than literally anyone else I can think of.
 
559Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 11:12
The only one even discussing them (let alone apply them) is you.

 
560Boldwin
      ID: 10029209
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 12:24
I think it's really interesting that Alinsky designed those rules to fool a public at the mercy of the MSM.

But now that his enemy 'the people' have an internet, have a bell on the cat, and are tracking every step his students are taking, it doesn't work so well.

You can try and isolate your target in your latest 'moment of hate', Rush this time, Palin or whoever is being effective next time, but it isn't working.

It's kinda backfiring. You just generate sympathy, publicity and popularity for them now.
 
561Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 12:40
And that is reflected how, exactly? Palin's unfavorables are dropping and have never been lower.

Misapplying a 1960's organizing "tool" isn't going to make people like a half-term governor whose idea of being independent is to paint herself as the victim in lieu of positive ideas about governing.
 
562Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 12:51
Also interesting that Ann Coulter's Rules for Radicals are designed to fool a public at the mercy of the MSM(Fox News, Limbaugh, WND, Newsmax).
 
563Boldwin
      ID: 10029209
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 13:01
Who would have thot those multi-generational zeitgeist controlling superpowers of CBS,NBC,ABC News could ever be marginalized by a couple media virtual pirate stations out there in cable and AM? They didn't, the public did it, voting with their eyes and ears.

I'll still keep calling ABC/NBC/ABC the MSM until they and their listeners admit their cultural irrelevancy and intellectual bankruptcy.
 
564Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 13:49
voting with their eyes and ears

As they did in 2008, and will again in 2012, it seems. Really, how bankrupt is the tea party movement when its spokesperson enjoys unfavorables twice that of Obama?

Keep moving the goalposts and soon you'll forget where you left them.
 
565Tree, not at home
      ID: 3910441615
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 14:17
Do you have to build everyone you idolize up to near-martyr status?

actually, i think he does. that way when he changes his mind and lowers their status, he can later boost them up again when his mind feels the urge.

Take Palin for example.

He once praised her as "Reagan in a skirt."

eventually, he acknowledged that maybe she wasn't at quite that level.

now, he's just a few days away from praising her as "Jesus with a v@gina"...(and i had a very real LOL that this site censors that word)

And that is reflected how, exactly? Palin's unfavorables are dropping and have never been lower.

Misapplying a 1960's organizing "tool" isn't going to make people like a half-term governor whose idea of being independent is to paint herself as the victim in lieu of positive ideas about governing.


FACTS HAVE NO BASIS IN THIS CONVERSATION!

Who would have thot those multi-generational zeitgeist controlling superpowers of CBS,NBC,ABC News could ever be marginalized by a couple media virtual pirate stations out there in cable and AM?

some prefer a higher level of honesty and accountability.

others, such as the latter groups you described above, want to be spoon-fed lies and half-truths by criminals and others, so they can run with those lies and repeat them.

 
566Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 14:23
It is always mystifying to me how "christians" immediately deify their political leaders. They defend them more than they defend their faith.
 
567Boldwin
      ID: 60332014
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 15:39
Deify, ridiculous. No one here is calling her god.

I'd just as soon see Allen West run in 2012 instead. Just remember McCain promoted her and you guys singled her out for attack. You guys would like to make it so there was only one viable conservative candidate, one you've spend half a decade vilifying.

She has Reagan's instincts but without about 20 of his years development time working his philosophy out. Nothing to say she won't be his equal someday, nor anything guaranteeing that she will.
 
568Tree, not at home
      ID: 3910441615
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 16:47
I'd just as soon see Allen West run in 2012 instead. Just remember McCain promoted her and you guys singled her out for attack. You guys would like to make it so there was only one viable conservative candidate, one you've spend half a decade vilifying.

she put herself up for attack when she repeatedly made a fool of herself.

a half-decade? she's been on the national political scene for less than 30 months. of course, by the time 2012 rolls, she will indeed have that full half-decade to look silly.

but, more importantly, you seem to imply there are other viable conservative candidates who can run in 2012.

who are they? i find it HYSTERICAL you're mentioning Allen West, who has EXACTLY 17 DAYS OF TIME IN ELECTED OFFICE, as someone you'd like to see as President.

wasn't Obama's perceived lack of experience something conservatives used against him? and you're busy advocating for a guy who has been in elected office for 2 1/2 weeks..

L. O. L. big time.

 
569DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 17:06
As someone once said, "FACTS HAVE NO BASIS IN THIS CONVERSATION!"
 
570Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 17:34
She has Reagan's instincts but...

without

the smarts?

the elected experience?

the education?

the ability to interact with Democrats?

the ability to unify rather than divide?

the willingness to follow through on his committments?

the ability to deal with the Press?

the ability to admit a mistake and learn from it?

Palin is nothing like Reagan. Not in temperament, experience, political philosophy, political smarts, or governance. They are nothing alike, except both have had Democrats take potshots at them. Oh, and you believe neither have done anything wrong.

This doesn't make Palin anything like Reagan.
 
571Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Jan 20, 2011, 22:37
a couple media virtual pirate stations out there in cable and AM?

It probably won't do any good to attempt to educate someone who is convinced they already know everything, but this is pretty simple.

Rupert Murdoch has the 3rd largest global media conglomerate in the world, behind Disney and Time Warner, as well as the 3rd largest entertainment conglomerate.

Then there's those virtual pirate AM stations. Of course, when talking talk, it's not the stations, it's the syndication, and talk syndication is practically monopolized by
Premiere Radio Networks

Premiere Radio Networks, Inc., a subsidiary of Clear Channel Communications, syndicates more than 90 radio programs and services to more than 5,000 radio affiliations and reaches over 190 million listeners weekly. Premiere Radio is the number one radio network in the country and features the following personalities: Rush Limbaugh, Jim Rome, Ryan Seacrest, Glenn Beck, Bob & Tom, Delilah, Steve Harvey, Blair Garner, George Noory, John Boy and Billy, Big Tigger, Sean Hannity, Elvis Duran, Jason Lewis, Randi Rhodes, Nikki Sixx, Kane and others.

A subsidiary of

Clear Channel

Operates over 850 radio stations with an audience of more than 110 million listeners each week.
Serves approximately 150 U.S. markets, including 89 of the top 100 markets.
Reaches 45% of all people ages 18-49 in the U.S. on daily basis.


I don't know if a failure to admit that News Corp and Clear Channel are mainstream media giants is intellectual dishonesty or blatant ignorance; either way, it's a weak and lazy approach to discussion regarding media.
 
572Boldwin
      ID: 45038210
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 01:42
Take a closer look where AM radio was at the beginning of the Rush Excellence in Broadcasting experience. Before his conquest of the MSM.
 
573Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 07:35
Reagan's instincts

Instinctively, Reagan was a pro-choice Democrat.
 
574Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 07:42
Limbaugh has been on Premeire Radio Networks since the inception of his show in 1988.

Fox News Channel has always been a part of 20th Century FOX.

a couple media virtual pirate stations out there in cable and AM

Get a grip on reality.
 
575Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 11:07
Baldwin probably first heard him on AM and is going to cling to the belief that AM radio is as piratety as he wants it to be.
 
576Boldwin
      ID: 45032111
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 12:03
First story I googled. Doesn't matter if it wasn't written yesterday. We aren't talking about yesterday, 2011.
In getting to the top, Limbaugh ended up rewriting the rule book for Talk radio and national syndication. Before him, there were only a few AM stations programming local Talk radio all day, about 125 to 200 by most estimates. Today, Talk stations number more than 1,200, comprising 10 percent of all outlets...

When he plucked Limbaugh from KFBK in Sacramento, times were tough for the radio business, especially AMs, which found themselves desperately seeking formats to compete with the better sound quality offered on the FM band. "Programming Talk required a lot of money," says McLaughlin, money AM stations didn't have because FM stations were stealing their lunch.

"There was an exodus of listeners from the AM dial. If you listened to music, you wanted that bigger sound," says George Green of George Green Enterprises, a Talk consultancy, and the former general manager of KABC-AM, the first talk radio station...

It was up to McLaughlin to convince other radio stations, who believed all programming had to be local, that a national show could work in daytime. "All the wizards in radio said it couldn't be done...

With strong ratings proving a national show could still play in Peoria, Rush mushroomed to 600 affiliates by 1994. AM stations realized they could build a whole format around Rush, and so came the explosion of syndicated Talk radio. "Rush made it easier for some stations to go to Talk that might otherwise have been playing polkas," says Talk radio consultant Walter Sabo. "Nobody has created more jobs in Talk radio than Rush. If you [put] him on, you had a viable business."

Talk hosts, liberal and conservative, owe a lot to Limbaugh. "He's the guy who paved the way. There is nobody better. He created an institution by putting this medium on the market. Everybody in Talk radio is indebted to him...
So yeah, he started his industry from scratch, might as well have been on an offshore platform or a megawatt shack in Mexico. The unstoppable outside force saying what America wishes it could have said.

The supremely misnamed 'fairness doctrine' had forced off the air any talkshow controversial opinion but that defacto censorship had been removed in 1987 and EIB was nationally syndicated in 1988 to the rapturous joy of previously censored conservatives everywhere.

 
577Boldwin
      ID: 45032111
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 12:30
Source.

I googled for about 20 minutes to make sure that wasn't a Stephens media outlet.
 
578Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 13:20
No it wasn't like he was an offshore platform. He took something that was there and made an empire out of being an ass.

Might as well "thank" Al Gore for making climate change such a big issue.
 
579Boldwin
      ID: 45032111
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 15:44
Yeah, you would think the opinion of fly-over America amounts to an empire of asses. The feeling is mutual.
 
580Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 15:58
Yes--being in Pennsylvania (and born in Ohio) that's exactly how I feel.

You really need to re-calibrate your "Insult a Liberal" quote machine.

Meanwhile, Palin beats Obama by a single point in Texas in a theoretical matchup--within the margin. If she can't win in Texas big, she's not going to win anywhere. She'll lose like Bob Dole, but with none of the grace or class.
 
581Mith
      ID: 4010542612
      Fri, Jan 21, 2011, 16:20
What nonsense. He was hired by a national AM radio syndicate.

What is so hard to understand about the difference between that reality and the fantasy that he started on a couple media virtual pirate stations out there in cable and AM?
 
582Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 07:12
 
583sarge33rd
      ID: 45072817
      Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 18:07
from 567:

...one you've spend half a decade vilifying.

That would still leave us WELL behind you. Clinton has been out of office for how long, and you will STILL erupt into a firestorm over that name.
 
584sarge33rd
      ID: 45072817
      Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 19:30
link

1935...how right he turned out to be eh?
 
585Razor
      ID: 160302211
      Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 22:14
Is it possible that Sarah Palin is getting stupider?
 
586Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 22:31
Van Susteren offers her best poker-face but her eyes betray her.
 
587walk
      ID: 348442710
      Thu, Feb 17, 2011, 16:39
NYT, Palin Q&A on Long Island
 
588bibA
      ID: 48627713
      Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 12:15
Some inside info from a Palin aide.

She may have hated her job as governor, but at least she gutted it out for over two years!
 
589biliruben
      ID: 34435239
      Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 18:33
I absolutely love this.

Brief Description – Sarah Palin called the Obama Administration’s actions as the “Road to Ruin”! Like most of the USA now, we at Stand Up America think it is a great way to express yourself and learn what is really happening to our country, so what can we do? Well, it seems the normal methods do not work because of entrenched political machinery, moneyed interests, power seeking for power’s sake, and a media that is just plan in the tank.

In the past, petitions were signed, marches on Washington and elsewhere were held, Tea Parties were created, letters were written, calls were made, new representatives were elected, yet, the road to ruin is still there, and the Obama Administration has the pedal to the floor, the speedometer is pegged, and there are no brakes. All our efforts have for the most part FAILED!

So how do we make our voices known? How do we finally succeed? How do we send a clear message that cannot be twisted by the media, misinterpreted by politicians, or co-opted by Obama apologists? Well, we have come up with one interesting new way. Are you game? It won’t cost you any money short of a gallon of gas. It won’t take much of your time, only about an hour. It won’t mean travel to distant cities. It won’t mean crowds to wade through, and it won’t interfere with your life too much.

What it will be is FUN, and a great way to vent your frustration, without being labeled, or maligned!

Here is what is planned:

• Sunday, March 13th, 2011 – 4 PM Eastern, 3 PM Central, 2 PM Mountain, and 1 PM Pacific time;

• We want everyone to get into their cars, trucks, motorcycles, RVs, Semis, box trucks, and any other vehicle, and drive to your nearest highway or main route;

• Don’t go far, just enough to get in a safe position to pull over to the shoulder, and park, engine running, headlights and flashers on;

• Why? To take a cell call, or make one or several. After all, law enforcement recommends that you pull over to the side to take your call or text.

• Hook up a boat trailer, a snow mobile hauler, or anything to make the line look miles and miles long, bring your tractor-trailer...


How do we finally succeed? We drive onto the highway and pull over and lay on the horn on Sunday afternoon!

Fantastic.
 
590Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 19:02
i wonder how many people will forget to move their clocks forward, screw the whole thing up...all six of them?
 
591biliruben
      ID: 34435239
      Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 19:07
5 out of 6. Baldwin will be all alone out there at 3 PM out on hwy 154, because you just gave him a heads-up.
 
592Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 19:10
well, someone's got to.
 
593DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Thu, Mar 10, 2011, 23:20
So, basically, it's a plan to enrich the oil companies at the expense of the gullible average Joe?

Color me stunned.
 
594Tree, not at home
      ID: 3910441615
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 13:59
Sarah Palin is reportedly on the outs with Roger Ailes


one more step to her rapid irrelavancy.
 
595Frick
      ID: 5310541617
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 16:28
Other than hard-core conservative Republicans, who still finds here relevant?
 
596Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 16:46
Non-conservatives need not even bother telling the Tea Party who gets in the door.

What is going on is that the Christopher Hitchens Trotskyite neocon wing of the Republican Party is trying to do a 'Bill Buckley excommunicates the John Birch society' number on the Tea Party favorites.

The difference is the Tea Party and Reagan conservatives in general don't owe Roger Ailes or Politico or George Will or Christopher Hitchens or the Huffington Post or the boys at Commentary magazine a thing.

Quite another thing with our favorite Skull&Bones [may they rot] member Bill Buckley.
 
597Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 16:52
May I point out that Roger Ailes running Fox News is the achilles heal of the right. An unprincipled machiavellian guy like that with a headlock on the only TV outlet with a monopoly on PC free TV...not good. He's as conservative as Dick Morris is a Democrat.
 
598Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 16:57
The Tea Party certainly owes FOX news for its very existence, however.
 
599Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 17:02
Untrue.
 
600Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 17:05
The Tea Party owes it's existance to the betrayal by both parties to spend the country bankrupt.
 
601Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 17:05
So you believe that without FOX the Tea Party would have had the same electoral success?
 
602Seattle Zen
      ID: 10732616
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 18:15
I love how Baldwin uses the John Birch Society as the historical example for the Tea Party. Could not agree more.
 
603Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 18:26
PD

If anything it was You-Tube broadcasting the townhall reactions almost live. Another social network revolution.
 
604Frick
      ID: 52182321
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 20:49
Is there a google translator for post 596?
 
605DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Tue, Mar 15, 2011, 23:43
All I got was a triple 3-D bingo, sorry.
 
606Boldwin
      ID: 55217158
      Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 08:44
Anyone who doesn't understand #596 should be a lot more humble when posting to this site. You've got a lot to learn to get up to speed.
 
607Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Mar 16, 2011, 09:00
That isn't speeding. It is skidding.

Reagan wouldn't get through a Tea Party-dominated primary. He'd be considered a RINO.
 
608Tree
      ID: 16329157
      Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 08:30

PROFESSOR: Sarah Palin Probably Staged A Gigantic Hoax About Being Trig's Mother


Scharlott's article walks through all the evidence supporting the theory, including the photos of Palin in what is said to have been a late-stage pregnancy, the leisurely 20-hour trip home that Palin took after she supposedly went into labor in Texas, the refusal of the hospital where Trig was supposedly born to even confirm that he was born there (let alone who was the mother), strange statements from Palin's doctor and the McCain campaign, and so on.


sure. why not?
 
609Boldwin
      ID: 35355159
      Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 11:14
Trig needs a birth certificate but Obama doesn't. That's rich.
 
611Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 12:09
Trig needs a birth certificate but Obama doesn't. That's rich.

No, he doesn't, and quite frankly, i couldn't care less if Sarah Palin pulled off this fraud. i wouldn't put it past her, we've seen the tactics she'll use to further her own career.

i think the larger point is lost on you - it's basically, a non-issue, much like Obama's American citizenship, which has been proven over and over and over again.

at this point, only a complete idiot would still think Obama wasn't born in this country (i'm talking to YOU, Donald Trump).
 
612walk
      ID: 348442710
      Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 14:06
#609, that is too funny...you think the point of that Palin fraud argument is that we actually care? I think the blogger professor cares, but I think there are bigger fish to fry about Palin (e.g. qualifications, common sense, intelligence, wisdom, experience, gravitas). It's that this birth stuff is absurd.
 
613DWetzel
      ID: 49962710
      Fri, Apr 15, 2011, 15:07
I'm quite sure the bigger point is that she would even consider having to jump through massive hoops to lie to "protect her daughter's honor" or whatever instead of just actually being honest and saying "yup, she got knocked up, I wish she hadn't but she's a teenager and made a mistake, we're dealing with it as a family". For which she would have I think been applauded by basically everyone except the rightmost 3% of the population who would wish that she shun her daughter into the wilderness to be eaten by wolves. Unfortunately, she thought pleasing those wackos was more important than doing right by her family.

Assuming it actually happened, which I don't know and don't care enough about to investigate.
 
614Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 01:07
Er... Uh...
 
615Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 01:34
Hers? She puts an extra L in her hashtag?
 
616Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 16:54
Good catch PD. Not the first time I've been suckered.
 
617Boldwin
      ID: 253542417
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 20:12
The big question as Chairman Bernanke gets set for his first quarterly press conference is how Sarah Palin was able to figure out sooner than everyone else that the Federal Reserve’s campaign of quantitative easing wouldn’t work. Disappointment in the Fed’s policies is being reported this morning at the top of page one of the New York Times. It reports that “most Americans are not feeling the difference” from the Fed’s “experimental effort to spur a recovery by purchasing vast quantities of federal debt.” It reports that “a broad range of economists say that the disappointing results show the limits of the central bank’s ability to lift the nation from its economic malaise.”

It’s a terrific story, and well-timed, given that on Wednesday Mr. Bernanke will break tradition and meet with the press. It is part of the Fed’s effort to get ahead of what is emerging as a public relations catastrophe...But how in the world did Mrs. Palin, who is supposed to be so thick, manage to figure all this out so far ahead of the New York Times and all the economists it talked to?

She did this back in November in a speech at Phoenix, which the Wall Street Journal, in a laudatory editorial at the time, characterized as zeroing in on the connection between a weak dollar and rising prices - The Sun (New York)
To be fair Bachman was instantly on the phone to the Fed begging them not to QE2 as soon as she heard of it also.

 
618Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 20:31
The big question as Chairman Bernanke gets set for his first quarterly press conference is how Sarah Palin was able to figure out sooner than everyone else...

Why is that a question at all? When you attack almost everything the administration does as destined to fail, you're going to be right sometimes.

Duh.
 
619Boldwin
      ID: 253542417
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 21:07
Or like when you predict the opposite of anything Paul Krugman writes, in which case you are guaranteed to be right.
 
620Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 21:26
Ironic quoting the NY Times, B, when just the other day you claimed you didn't believe a word they wrote.
 
621biliruben
      ID: 34435239
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 21:32
You were probably won't of those picketing Last Temptation who never even saw the movie.

Krugman on QE2 6 months ago.

What happens when the Fed buys long-term government securities? If we consider the Fed and Treasury as a consolidated entity — which, for fiscal purposes, they are — then what happens is that some long-term federal debt is taken off the market, and paid for by issuing more short-term debt in the form of monetary base. It’s just as if Treasury sold 3-month T-bills and used the proceeds to buy back 10-year bonds.

So the question to ask is, how much do we think federal management of its maturity structure matters for the real economy? I think if you put it that way, most people wouldn’t be terribly optimistic.


Feel free to share Palin's brilliance from 6-months ago. I'm sure it's very deep.
 
622Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 22:01
big question as Chairman Bernanke gets set for his first quarterly press conference is how Sarah Palin

Is this really the big question? Is the right reduced restricting their news to to pumping up Palin's economic cred at the expense of actual economic news?
 
623Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 22:14
It's an opinion piece about an opinion piece.
 
624Boldwin
      ID: 253542417
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 23:19
Ironic quoting the NY Times, B, when just the other day you claimed you didn't believe a word they wrote. - PV

Ironic making that accusation when you won't let me quote anyone who isn't in lock-step with the NYT.

You were probably won't of those picketing Last Temptation who never even saw the movie.

If I'm thinking of the same movie, I did see it and thot it picked up on some interesting angles even if it did have Jesus' attitudes, manor and characteristics all wrong. I got some strange looks for saying anything good about it.
 
625Boldwin
      ID: 253542417
      Sun, Apr 24, 2011, 23:53
Really how many times have we seen the lack of fair play from Dems.

We won't let you post a link from anyone but left wingers but if you do, proof you respect left wing sources.

We won't let you switch to a private retirement plan to replace SS but if you accept your own money back that you had no choice but to give to the government, you are suddenly a hypocrite who really does like big government.

 
626Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Sun, May 29, 2011, 11:21
The "Real" Sarah Palin, indeed.

"What I see is her trying to portray an image that would be pleasing to the majority of the populace - the honest, plain-speaking maverick politician and hard-working mom - but it's all fake," (said former Palin campaign director said Frank Bailey.)

He describes the self-styled "Mama Grizzly" as "thin-skinned, ambitious, very much self-serving and narcissistic".

Even her glasses are a prop, as her eyesight was corrected with laser surgery. "We used a lot of effort to make her look executive," he said. "Dark suit, hair up, speak in a lower voice. The glasses were part of that."
 
627Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, May 29, 2011, 12:56
I don't think she'll officially enter the race. The big tour looks like a way to bolster her image and standing which, if successful, could open the door for a run. But that's a really big if, since bolstering her image is exactly what all her media endeavors of the past 2+ years have been designed to do (well, that and make gobs of money) and she's still polling at the same 25% favorability. Further, polling at about 53% unfavorable shows that she's not immune to negative media coverage, which isn't going to end for as long as she keeps herself in the spotlight. And besides that, candidates who appeal to the same base who have committed before her will surely feel threatened if her numbers do begin to improve and at least some of them will likely begin to openly question her credentials and dedication, with more than a leg to stand on.
 
628Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, May 29, 2011, 13:38
Her job, at this point, is to be the almost-candidate. She maximizes her exposure and cash flow by seemingly being a candidate and not actually committing.

Love the name of her new movie: Undefeated. Really, Sarah?
 
629Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Tue, May 31, 2011, 11:59
Love the name of her new movie: Undefeated. Really, Sarah?

i read somewhere that that was a typo. it was supposed to be named "Uncompleted".
 
630Tree
      ID: 320371412
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 14:27
(Paul Revere) warned the British that they weren't going to be taking away our arms by ringing those bells and, um, making sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that, uh, we were going to be secure and we were going to be free.

oh Sarah, really???

Palin shows her lack of basic American History knowledge...again..
 
631Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 15:51
See post #114 here.
 
632weykool
      ID: 53446220
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 16:46
I always thought most people realized the the "Legend of Paul Revere" was more fiction than fact but it seems that is not the case.

A good article here explaining some of the poetic license that taken by Longfellow that some people still regard as facts.
" Paul Revere

While Prescott was riding on, Revere spent some anxious moments being interrogated by the British. He defiantly informed his captors that the game was up. "I know what you are after," he told them, "and have alarmed the country all the way up.
 
633sarge33rd
      ID: 372291615
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 17:14
right, but not by firing shots in the midst of the night, nor by ringing bells.
 
634sarge33rd
      ID: 372291615
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 17:54
and one final "point of order" re Ms Palin and her retelling....

she says he "warned the British they weren't taking our guns..."

Paul Revere's ride was April 18,1775

Decl of Indep was drafted Jun 11-18, 1776

Bill of Rights wasnt ratified until Dec 15, 1791


I'd find it curious as to how Paul Revere 'enforced' the 2nd Amendment, 16 years before it WAS the 2nd Amendment.
 
635Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Jun 04, 2011, 19:05
Sarge I don't know anything about her saying he was enforcing the 2nd Amendment. The British were on their way to Lexington to confiscate an armory and arrest two of the FFs, so that part her folksy take on the history lesson isn't necessarily inaccurate.
 
636sarge33rd
      ID: 372291615
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 14:28
Her comment early in the vid, "He warned the British that they werent taking away our guns...", to me speaks to the individuals rights to gun ownership. (A major element on the Right and one which I frankly agree with).I think it more a matter of her knowing full well how it would be interpreted, and her pandering to her base. Palin may well be an idiot, but she is savvy when it comes to manipulation.
 
637weykool
      ID: 53530517
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 18:30
She is obviously very savvy at manipulating you.
If what you are saying is true then you have to agree that she is pretty damn smart.
 
638sarge33rd
      ID: 372291615
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 19:06
being savvy in the manipulation of fools,(her supporters) and being
"pretty damn smart"; are FAR from synonymous.
 
639Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 19:18
Sarge

She obviously subjected herself to a lot of Paul Revere history that day (and apparently couldn't be bothered with paying enough attention to comment coherently or accurately on it) including the fact that the British mission was to arrest Hancock and Adams and confiscate their armories. So yes, she obviously got several things wrong, but that the militia would be preventing the British from taking away our guns wasn't one of them. Any confusion she had with the actual 2nd Amendment is a fabrication of your desire to perceive Palin as abjectly stupid as possible. Can't you just be satisfied with how much she already humiliated herself without having to invent further reason?
 
640Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 19:21
And for the record, im quite sure the general perception of her comments was absolutely not intentional. She took it from all sides over that one.
 
641scoobies
      ID: 21545519
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 20:46
More Palin from today's Fox News Sunday.

"You know what? I didn't mess up about Paul Revere. Here is what Paul Revere did. He warned the Americans that the British were coming, the British were coming, and they were going to try to take our arms and we got to make sure that we were protecting ourselves and shoring up all of ammunitions and our firearms so that they couldn't take it," she said.

"But remember that the British had already been there, many soldiers for seven years in that area. And part of Paul Revere's ride -- and it wasn't just one ride -- he was a courier, he was a messenger. Part of his ride was to warn the British that we're already there. That, hey, you're not going to succeed. You're not going to take American arms. You are not going to beat our own well-armed persons, individual, private militia that we have. He did warn the British.
And in a shout-out, gotcha type of question that was asked of me, I answered candidly. And I know my American history," she said.
 
642Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 21:15
Palin supporters are trying to change Paul Revere's wikipedia entry to align with Palin's assertions.

If the facts don't match--change the facts!
 
643Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 21:38
Yeesh.
 
644DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 21:44
You know, I could really care less about the main part of this mini-thread as to what exactly Sarah Palin said about Paul Revere, but post 642 just ... really explains a lot about her supporters, much more than it does about her.
 
645Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 00:34
I don't think 25% Americans likely seek to change Wikipedia to cover for Sarah Palin's ignorance.
 
646Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 01:07
"Of course, the 'lame stream media' ambushed Palin with gotcha questions like, "Where are you going?" and, "Why are you doing this?" -- Stephen Colbert on Sarah Palin's bus tour
 
647sarge33rd
      ID: 372291615
      Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 06:20
Fox actually got one right:

SHEP SMITH: I Didn't Cover Sarah Palin Bus Tour Because It's Not News Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/shep-smith-sarah-palin-video-2011-6#ixzz1OUR176et
 
648Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Jun 22, 2011, 13:03
Palin's bus tour ends much like her governorship: Partway through, after a sudden change of plans.
 
649Mith
      ID: 5631099
      Wed, Jun 22, 2011, 22:01
Half-term governor, on the heels of quitting her half-finished bus tour, quits her not-yet-started Sudan trip.




Sorry. Couldn't resist.
 
650Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Jun 29, 2011, 13:06
If the election were held today, Palin would lose to Obama--in Alaska.

Once you get to know her, you start casting about for other choices, it seems. Or maybe Alaska is really just a marxist outpost.
 
651Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Wed, Jun 29, 2011, 13:23
Well, considering you can see Russia from Alaska, I'm sure marxism is running rampant.
 
652Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 12:54
When reality hits the Palin apologists, it gets ugly fast. Apparently six tickets sold at a showing of Undefeated is enough to crow about.
 
654Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 11:18
Palin and Glen Rice

Minute Rice? [/rimshot]
 
655Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 11:27
Oh don't be silly. She's racist. Remember?
 
656Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 11:32
Strawman?
 
657DWetzel
      ID: 53326279
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 11:35
Farn beats me to it.

It's obviously more goofy than anything -- no laws broken, nobody was married so no big deal there, etc. However, I look forward to the hilariously defensive reactions of people who would normally be up in arms about this sort of behavior.

My biggest worry about all this is that the NCAA makes Michigan forfeit something because Glen Rice got impermissible benefits.
 
658Seattle Zen
      ID: 10732616
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 12:59
Glen Rice got impermissible benefits

Benefits? Bah, Rice was just helping some local gal in need. He very well may have had her sign a slip and turned it in for community service.
 
659Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 13:33
She's racist. Remember?

she's also Ronald Reagan in a skirt, remember?
 
660DWetzel
      ID: 53326279
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 14:38
There's also a number of "exit polling" jokes here. Someone help me out.
 
661DWetzel
      ID: 53326279
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 17:20
Via Twitter:

"I wonder if Sarah Palin could see Russia while on top of Glen Rice."
 
662Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 10:55
Big fan, Jean Wyclef
 
663Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 14:24
Oh don't be silly. She's racist. Remember?

...can a person with a clear passion for basketball and its participants be racist? I don’t think so.

Sarah Palin is a politician with a special place in her heart for the real, pro-America part of America, cities such as Detroit, Atlanta and Compton. Palin would love nothing better than an afternoon spent taking in the sights at Rucker Park.
 
664Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 21:55
Charles Barkley - Crushing on Palin

Still drilling for his vote tho.
 
665DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 21:58
Via another website:

"No surprise. Dude built an entire career out of his ability to nail 3's."
 
666Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Wed, Oct 05, 2011, 18:46
Not running for Prez
 
667Perm Dude
      ID: 4992510
      Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 13:04
Take the money and don't run.

Suckers...
 
668Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Oct 08, 2011, 19:27
�Helping to prevent her from getting her hands on power was one of my guiding goals...�I lost vast tracts of time and not a few T-cells trying to understand and expose this farce" - Andrew Sullivan

Well I'll be...those gays who took over the APA and at first tried to rewrite the DSM to include heterophobia were right afterall.

Huge Tracts
 
669Perm Dude
      ID: 4992510
      Sat, Oct 08, 2011, 19:34
Yeah yeah--kill the messenger.

 
670Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 14:38
In response to Palin's call to the Tea Party to vote for Gingrich -- the Tea Party voted for Romney.

Exit polls show in FLA that Tea Party supporters went for Romney over Gingrich.

Ms Palin: Your 15 minutes are up.
 
671Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 19:32
"(Though those who said they strongly supported the Tea Party favored Mr. Gingrich 45 percent to 33 percent.)"

Maybe Ann Coulter is influencing them instead.
 
672sarge33rd
      ID: 211332319
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 19:38
What did they say, and who did they vote for?

Two different questions, only one of which has a relevant answer.
 
673Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 19:56
Coulter is for Romney and Palin, Newt.

BTW if you aren't strongly for the Tea Party, you aren't Tea Party.
 
674Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 19:58
Tea Party: Either full dick or get out.
 
675Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 20:15
This is the guy who likes to chip in with, "Stay classy".
 
676Tree
      ID: 25119219
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 20:19
BTW if you aren't strongly for the Tea Party, you aren't Tea
Party.


Pretty sure the Nazis and the KKK felt the same way about their organizations.
 
677Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Feb 02, 2012, 21:44
Who was it who said, it was acceptible to "tear a common person to pieces like a fish."?

Yeah, lots of groups feel like luke warm is kinda like vomit. Good groups even.
 
678bibA
      ID: 4057177
      Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 20:31
I can't believe it. Ann Coulter must have been high or something, to have gotten something so accurate - Ann Coulter basically says Sarah Palin is a charlatan
 
679Tree
      ID: 462431419
      Wed, Mar 14, 2012, 20:44
ha. i was just about to post that.

Coulter said that might be a weakness in the Republican Party as a whole — that certain individuals become celebrities and are allowed to profit off that status and yet still interfere in GOP politics, which Democrats have been able to avoid.

"And just a more corporate problem is I think our party and particularly our movement, the conservative movement, does have more of a problem with con men and charlatans than the Democratic Party," she said. "I mean, the incentives seem to be set up to allow people — as long as you have a band of a few million fanatical followers, you can make money. The Democrats have managed to figure out how not to do that."
 
680sarge33rd
      ID: 4717718
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 00:25
Watched the HBO docudrama "Game Change" the other day. Not sure why Palin is all upset about it, unless it is the truth which bothers her so much.

Like many who have left comments on various sites/reviews for the show have said, I too came back to hold McCain in more respect after the show, than I did before the show. Palin,my view was unchanged.

AC getting this one right, and spot on to boot, just goes to show that the rest of her dribble is deliberately so, just so SHE can make a buck off the rabid right. IOW, she has yet to admit, she is one of the charlatans of which she speaks.
 
681Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 09:25
I saw the consultant McCain picked to steer Palin...

...on the Rachel Maddow show giggling and basking in the warm glow of Maddow's praises and approval.

One stomach turning sight that should forever banish her from GOP employment if there is any justice.
 
682Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 11:21
Don't worry: The fact that she picked Palin has already done that for you.
 
683sarge33rd
      ID: 4717718
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 12:27
"She" didnt pick Palin. Steve Schmidt was the strategist who did that. Nicole Wallace, is who B is referring to. Both have said, the film is accurate enough to be frightening.

Your bias B, is clearly showing. Try watching the movie and seeing a glimpse of what Palin put this gal through.
 
684Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 12:50
I believe she was charged with helping to vet Palin, sarge. Ultimately, of course, Schmidt is responsible for putting forth her name, but the problem was the lack of vetting.
 
685sarge33rd
      ID: 4717718
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 13:11
Wallace was a press secretary essentially, charged with prepping Palin for her interviews. Prep, which Palin refused to participate in and thus she was repeatedly embarassed by those interviews.

The campaign hired an agency to vet Palin, but gave them only a week to conduct the vetting process vs the usual 6-7 weeks. That massively reduced timeline, is what ultimately doomed the campaign. McCain, had wanted to name Leiberman as his VP candidate. But the campaigns internal polls, showed him still losing the election. Thus, the introduction of Palin, something./someone raqdically unexpected and intended to close the gender gap their internal polls showed.
 
686Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 13:15
As I said at the time, he was too smart by half. His strongest argument against Obama, by far, was Obama's inexperience at the national stage, and he cut his own legs out from under himself with that Palin pick.

Obviously he hoped to pick up votes from women (particularly, Clinton supporters). But he killed his own best argument and the fact that Palin turned out to be, well, Palin only put a dagger into a corpse already bleeding out.
 
687Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 13:20
but the problem was the lack of vetting.

Funniest line coming from an Obama lover.
 
688Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 13:26
Heh. That word means something different than what you think it does. Vetting means getting out facts.
 
689Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Thu, Mar 15, 2012, 14:45
For him it means different things depending on the subject.

Vetting Obama means espousing every last birther rumor without a shred of scrutiny and well beyond it's thorough debunking and attributing to him the full worldview (or at least it's most disagreeable aspects or that which can be contorted into such) of every person he has ever had a conversation with.

Vetting Palin means ensuring she is willing to sufficiently demonize the political left at every turn with sufficient disregard for the principles of honesty and integrity.
 
690Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Tue, Apr 03, 2012, 14:09
Sarah Palin is, now, the lamestream media.
 
691Boldwin
      ID: 12214143
      Tue, Apr 03, 2012, 15:07
The enemy has been infiltrated.
 
692Boldwin
      ID: 43492714
      Tue, Jun 05, 2012, 10:51
 
693Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 17:02
Sarah Palin in 2016?

The presents for the Democrats continue to pour in, if the GOP is hoping to ride Palin to victory at any point.
 
694sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 17:05
Saw that this morning and bar none, the best comment to follow that article: This "brave" op-ed was mistakenly printed by the Los Angeles Times. Charlotte Allen wrote this for The Onion...
 
695Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 17:24
I know people personally who are big fans of hers (still) and genuinely were disappointed she didn't run this past year. I have no doubt that there are still a lot of people who would support her.

Those people need to be encouraged.
 
696sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 17:48
Support Sarah Palin, and in that process, elect Hillary Clinton.
 
697Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 12:00
She's a parody of herself at this point...

Czech Republic Invasion
 
698Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 12:02
(Yes, I know its a fake site. But is anyone convinced in this case it couldn't be real.)
 
699biliruben
      ID: 21841115
      Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 14:41
Sarah Palin Scorned

Republicans in Alaska rolled-back Sarah Palin's tax the Oil Companies scheme.

Democrats are using her legacy to repeal the roll-back.