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| Posted by: Seattle Zen
- Leader [055343019] Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 00:13
This is not going to be an easy recovery.
Fierce earthquake rocks Haiti
The earthquake, the worst in the region in more than 200 years, left the country in a shambles. As night fell in Port-au-Prince, Haiti’s capital, fires burned near the shoreline downtown, but otherwise the city fell into darkness. The electricity was out, telephones were not working and relief workers struggled to make their way through streets blocked by rubble.
In the chaos, it was not possible for officials to determine how many people had been killed and injured, but they warned that the casualties could be substantial.
The physical toll was easier to assess. The headquarters of the United Nations mission was seriously damaged, the United Nations said in a statement, and many employees were missing. Part of the national palace had collapsed, The Associated Press reported. |
| | | 1 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 17:01
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My prayers are with them.
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| | | 2 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 17:10
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I didn't realize that the building in the photo is the Presidential Palace.
Before & After:
On the other hand, here's the "There's a Natural Disaster, so Here's Pat Robertson To Make Christians Look Stupid" video:
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| | | 3 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 20:22
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you have to wonder if his co-host was sitting there going "really? really??? WTF were you talking about with this devils $hit?!?"
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| | | 4 | Seattle Zen
ID: 1410391215
Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 20:30
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The photos are just horrendous. It will take billions of dollars to rebuild. I can't imagine wanting to stay.
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| | | 5 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 22:01
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I can't imagine wanting to stay.
unfortunately, i can't imagine many having much of a choice.
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| | | 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jan 14, 2010, 11:33
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More pics
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| | | 8 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Jan 14, 2010, 15:00
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Limbaugh gets some blowback from the Right for his comments on Haiti.
I agree with Pat Buchanan on this. And sometimes a political junkie like Limbaugh needs to know when to dial it down when we are dealing with real-world problems. It isn't always an opportunity for cynical political posturing.
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| | | 9 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jan 15, 2010, 14:18
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MoveOn trying to get cc companies to waive fees on Haitian donations:
http://pol.moveon.org/nofees/
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| | | 10 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Fri, Jan 15, 2010, 15:51
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8-I listened to Rush today, I really wish he wouldnt politicize this. This is so horrific and it is going to get so much worst than better. I hear they are piling up dead bodies to block the roads. We should take the troops from Afghanistan and restore order and clean up that mess down there. I think that will go a long way.
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| | | 11 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, Jan 15, 2010, 16:23
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Limbaugh sticks to his guns, and manages to sink even lower.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20100115/pl_politico/31539 (having a hard time inserting a link)
(Limbaugh) also appeared to discourage help for the island nation, saying, “We've already donated to Haiti. It’s called the U.S. income tax.”
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| | | 12 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 07:54
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I was watching olberman and he had a commentary last night and I caught the end of it and I got the impression that he threatened Limbaugh. Any body else catch that. Like I said I caught the end of it.
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| | | 13 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 08:32
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I believe the suggestion is most likely that he's going to lose listeners and supporters. However the statement was obviously intentionally obscure.
No, definitely not a threat, but language I'm not fully comfortable with, either. Kind of similar to things a lot of tea partiers said on camera or put on signs which seemed to ambiguously suggest violence against political leaders, or at least were worded in a way that some might interpret as suggesting or endorsing violence.
Here's the clip:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
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| | | 14 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 08:47
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Mith-I just wish we could have debate without the childish behavior. It is so unbelievable. I think Guru should step in. It worked here.:)
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| | | 15 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 08:54
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Is there even a debate we should be having about whether American aid should go to Haiti - or whether Obama's aid is to burnish his cred with black people?
For the record I have no problem with Olberman so blasting Rush on his show or with anything he says in that clip until his final three words; "...or acted upon".
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| | | 16 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 11:33
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i actually took the "or acted upon" phrase to be in regards to Americans turning their back on Limbaugh, in both terms of support, and ratings.
i didn't see any threat of violence, veiled or otherwise, in that statement.
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| | | 17 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 18:57
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Dear Pat Robertson
I know that you know that all press is good press, so I appreciate the shout-out. And you make God look like a big mean bully who kicks people when they are down, so I'm all over that action.
But when you say that Haiti has made a pact with me, it is totally humiliating. I may be evil incarnate, but I'm no welcher. The way you put it, making a deal with me leaves folks desperate and impoverished.
Sure, in the afterlife, but when I strike bargains with people, they first get something here on earth -- glamour, beauty, talent, wealth, fame, glory, a golden fiddle. Those Haitians have nothing, and I mean nothing. And that was before the earthquake. Haven't you seen "Crossroads"? Or "Damn Yankees"?
If I had a thing going with Haiti, there'd be lots of banks, skyscrapers, SUVs, exclusive night clubs, Botox -- that kind of thing. An 80 percent poverty rate is so not my style. Nothing against it -- I'm just saying: Not how I roll.
You're doing great work, Pat, and I don't want to clip your wings -- just, come on, you're making me look bad. And not the good kind of bad. Keep blaming God. That's working. But leave me out of it, please. Or we may need to renegotiate your own contract.
Best, Satan
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| | | 18 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 19:40
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Glenn Beck on his radio show yesterday: I also believe this is dividing the nation…to where the nation sees him react so rapidly on Haiti and yet he couldn’t react rapidly on Afghanistan. He couldn’t react rapidly on Ft. Hood. He couldn’t react rapidly on our own airplanes with an underwear bomber…it doesn’t make sense. [...] Three different events and Haiti is the only one. I think personally that it deepens he divide to see him react this rapidly to Haiti. I'm still betting FNC had the good sense to leash their rabid attack dogs with regard to anything Haiti-related for now, so you won't hear this opinion on his TV show.
But really, when are the sane moderates on the political right going to wrest control of their public discourse from these derranged crackpots who have hijacked it?
Seriously.
No, seriously.
Aren't you people embarassed enough yet?
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| | | 20 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 20:00
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As well he should.
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| | | 21 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 20:10
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Florida radio personality (and Hulk Hogan groupie) Bubba the Love Sponge said this on his Twitter account:
"I say f*** haiti. Why do we have to take care of everybody our country is in shambles. Bubba"
(censorship mine, not Bubba's)
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| | | 22 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 20:50
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Reviled by many in the world, when disaster strikes, they all look to us. And we deliver. We always come through.
Because this is what we do. This is who we are. We're Americans. We have done more to liberate and help more people than any other country in the history of the world. And we always will. -Monica Crowley
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| | | 23 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sat, Jan 16, 2010, 22:56
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but when I strike bargains with people, they first get something here on earth - Satan via MITH The gangs confiscate the aid five minutes after the aid is delivered to the people. Papa Doc was well remunerated.
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| | | 24 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 09:50
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Is this why we should not donate to the Red Cross, Boldwin?
No doubt the government there was crooked. Accent on "was." There is no one in charge there anymore to confiscate anything.
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| | | 25 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 11:50
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The gangs confiscate the aid five minutes after the aid is delivered to the people.
No doubt this is true, if you say it is. So, are those who are giving their time and efforts on the ground in Haiti aware of this also? Well of course they are, if you possess this knowledge those on sight obviously know at least as much as you.
I was just listening to Lt.Gen Ken Keen on the morning press shows. He was talking about how the U.S. troops had been giving aid, food and water, medicine etc. to as many people as possible. And of course, other countries from all over the world are participating.
Then there is the Red Cross and Salvation Army giving a huge amount of aid. The Dominican Republic was the first to give aid, in spite of tensions that have existed between the two countries for well over 100 years. Organizations such as Giving Children Hope and Partners in Health and Doctors Without Borders continue efforts to supply medicine and supplies.
One must assume that all of these entities are aware of what you assert. So I ask you Boldwin, are they all in cahoots with the gangs for a financial kickback? Or are they so supportive of these gangs just because they are evil, maybe they side with Satan?
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| | | 26 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 12:54
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What has got you so torqued off, bibA? It's corrupt Chicago X 10. There is a reason the people in Haiti are doomed to misery and it is the mafia in control. There is a reason Aristide is crying to get back into the country and it isn't his big humanitarian heart. He is eating his heart out over failing to have his net in between the aid and the people of Haiti. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know Haiti.
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| | | 27 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 13:00
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He's probably "torqued off" because a time where the number of dead people ranging into the six figures as a result of a natural disaster is a really stupid time for you to be bringing stupid politics into this.
Of course, those of us who know you expected nothing less.
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| | | 28 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 13:08
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That's one type of post I try to avoid making since the new civility policy, DWetzel.
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| | | 29 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 13:21
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It does upset me that some object to our efforts, meager as they may be, to just do something to alleviate the massive suffering. The alternative that they apparently propose is cruel and inhumane. Thankfully, it seems that the few that do object are a small minority among us.
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| | | 30 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 13:38
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Christian benevolence meets GOP politics. It is stuggling for your soul, Boldwin. Let God deal with Aristide while you take care to follow his commandments.
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| | | 31 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 15:23
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31-- I'll stand by it, though I could have perhaps worded it a bit less brusquely. If a moderator sees fit to delete it, I understand.
It's not a sentiment unique to Boldwin, of course. See the recent Limbaugh flaps. NG had a similar sentiment a few days back, which he (to his credit) caught himself.
But if we're going to play "blame party X" or "blame the commies" for every single damn thing that happens on the planet, including humanitarian relief for an earthquake that has killed as many people as this has, then frankly, all hope is lost. If we can't just step back for a couple weeks and say, "you know what, I know we disagree, but maybe something is more important here" then we've stooped too damn low.
And I really hope that even Boldwin would realize that yeah, maybe that's over the top even for him.
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| | | 32 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 15:53
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A) I didn't say don't contribute. My religion is down there working on it. B) I was reminded of the gangs and the corruption problem that is going to plague the relief efforts by a liberal on NPR's report on the issue.
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| | | 33 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 15:57
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And I'm not getting sucked into the left-right false paradigm in this. What are Papa Doc and Duvalier? Left? Right? They are just plain corrupt and evil.
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| | | 34 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 16:00
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And obviously the new civility mods don't look left.
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| | | 35 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 16:04
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For that matter one of the mods is part of the problem.
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| | | 36 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 16:25
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How, exactly?
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| | | 37 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 17:20
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They can't see their own incivility.
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| | | 38 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 17:23
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It does upset me that some object to our efforts, meager as they may be, to just do something to alleviate the massive suffering. - bibA Who objected to relief efforts? In what possible way is the country providing the most relief somehow only providing meager relief?
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| | | 39 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 19:14
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Complaining that gangs are the ultimate recipients of aid may sound like an indirect objection, at least to some.
If were so apparent that the gangs are the ones who actually get the aid, it would be reasonable to believe that those on the ground there are aware of it, and thus complicit.
Using the word meager was a figure of speech.
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| | | 40 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 20:05
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When I'm uncivil, say so. Or remain quiet. Your choice. You aren't permitted to vaguely complain that a mod is being uncivil.
As to your trying to back away from your claim that contributing to Haiti will go to "Chicago X ten" (nice slam on the President at the same time), here is your statement:
The gangs confiscate the aid five minutes after the aid is delivered to the people
Are they, in fact, confiscating earthquake aid? If they are, link to it. Otherwise, the effect of your seems-like-a-factual statement is to discourage aid to those in help.
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| | | 41 | Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 20:15
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I'll second PD request, Boldwin. You vaguely reference an NPR report in post #32 but you provide no link or backup. Please provide that backup so we can all see your side of it.
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| | | 42 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 21:36
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You guys just don't read. Here is my post that started all this. but when I strike bargains with people, they first get something here on earth - Satan via MITH The gangs confiscate the aid five minutes after the aid is delivered to the people. Papa Doc was well remunerated. My point was that Satan's minions were in fact getting something. A possibility MITH was overlooking.
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| | | 43 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:02
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Sheesh I posted the thing because I thought it was cute.
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| | | 44 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:04
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And I started listening to podcast recordings and transcripts at the NPR website about Haiti since the earthquake but there is just too much to wade thru and I can't remember which day it was. Just trust me, the woman being interviewed said that gang members would confiscate the aid five minutes after it was given. How often? what percentage of the time? I didn't hear the whole interview and it wasn't all about that issue but the words I quoted were in that interview.
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| | | 45 | Farn
Leader
ID: 451044109
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:10
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Just trust me
Sorry, I'd rather have proof when dealing with accusations like that. If you happen to stumble across it at some point I'd love to hear it. Until then I'll be skeptical.
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| | | 46 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 17, 2010, 22:14
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Am I the only one here who ever listens to NPR? No one else caught it?
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| | | 47 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:10
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No one will dispute that there are gangs and looters in Haiti. The posts that you object to were in response to your wording, that seemed to imply that the aid was not going to those for who it was intended, but to "the gangs".
As if that was where all of it ended up, and that it was then a waste of the good efforts being made to aid those who need it.
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| | | 48 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:47
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MITH was over-reaching in his criticism and that was what I was refering to, certainly not making any recommendations about donation levels. I will add that Hugo Chavez recently accusing the USA of taking over the country is as backwards as can be. If anyone can restrain the gangs from raping the victims, it is the USA armed relief forces.
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| | | 49 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 08:56
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Boldwin, could it have been this interview with Jacqueline Charles, who covers Haiti for the Miami Herald?
In that interview, when asked about the stability of the Hatian government (and just after the discussion touched on the problems with getting aid to the people who need it, she did in fact bring up gangs, but not quite in the way that you claim to have heard:The government is very stable. I mean I have to tell you, you know, I've been reporting on this country for years now and in the last couple of years, you know, yes, there was a problem with gangs, but those, you know, they were disarmed and in the last two or three years, the country has been enjoying relative stability.
I just recently wrote a story about how it was going to get its first international hotel franchise in a decade because investors were starting to feel confident, both Haitians and non-Haitians alike. They were preparing to go to elections on February 28th, prior to that everybody was warming up for Carnival. There's supposed to be a presidential election, you know, in November. Now I think that the focus is just going to really shift to how do you dig yourself up from underneath this rubble?
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| | | 50 | Mith
ID: 43914286
Mon, Jan 18, 2010, 09:02
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MITH was over-reaching in his criticism
Please. I did not paste that letter from Satan because it was such sagacious commentary.
I didn't think a smiley face was necessary to confirm that I just thought it was funny.
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| | | 52 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 06:07
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That's not the interview, MITH.
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| | | 53 | Mith
ID: 159201318
Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 08:37
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Well in terms of settling any dispute over the liklihood of gangs stealing aid the moment it gets there, the contention of someone who appears intimately familiar with Haiti and current and recent events there should pretty well trump the second-hand account of some anonymous person in an interview that no one can find, yes?
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| | | 54 | Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 18:23
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Florida radio personality (and Hulk Hogan groupie) Bubba the Love Sponge said this on his Twitter account:
"I say f*** haiti. Why do we have to take care of everybody our country is in shambles. Bubba"
as a follow up, Bubba was asked to no longer show up at his second job, working for TNA Wrestling. He hasn't been fired yet, but it's likely coming, although he did issue an apology this morning.
IMHO, the apology was less about keeping the job, and more to do with professional wrestler The Amazing Kong kicking his a$$ backstage at the most recent tapings.
Reportedly, Kong walked up to him, said "This is for Haiti" and punched him in the head. She then clocked him 2 to 3 more times.
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| | | 55 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117
Tue, Jan 19, 2010, 19:22
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Bwahahahahahahaha.
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| | | 56 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 00:00
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I hear an awful lotta reports about aid not getting delivered fast enuff. Almost as if things are blockaded at the airport. Hope these reports are exagerated or false. I believe Hugo would say this no matter if it were false. Here is how it's done right.
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| | | 57 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:13
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I know you would eventually get to the other religions that claim they are getting aid to those who need it most, but here is a source that you may have missed.
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| | | 58 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 19:13
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No word on how that's working out, bibA?
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| | | 59 | bibA
ID: 01116297
Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 21:07
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According to the site, 100% of their donations go to their charities. Personally I gave to the Red Cross. I guess it's just a matter of faith. Same as all the rest of them.
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| | | 60 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Sun, Jan 24, 2010, 11:19
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I realize it's virtually impossible for the contingency that blames Hollywood for a myriad of this nation's problems to applaud George Clooney for organizing the "Hope for Haiti Now" telethon, which set a record for raising $58 million, but sometimes cynicism should be put aside when celebrities use their celebrity in a positive way.
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| | | 61 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Sun, Jan 24, 2010, 16:23
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Did anyone say anything negative about it? Now we're on the applaus-o-meter?
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| | | 62 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 11:03
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RE 60: Why do we not have more of these telethons? Kind of like the inverse of a lotto. Each month a different cause, Homeless in January, Poverty in February, heart disease in March...they could even theme them maybe like education in august...
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| | | 63 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 11:31
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re:62
I'm a bit suprised that you seem oblivious to the magnitude of the Haitian tragedy. Some estimates put the number of dead at 200,000, with 3 times that number injured, homeless and starving. And starving there means actually starving, as opposed to this country where starving means settling for a McDonald's value meal.
It's the kind of disaster that demands immediate attention in order to avoid a death toll that could reach 7 figures. While I normally appreciate sarcasm, I find it hard to digest in this instance.
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| | | 64 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 12:19
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About 2% of the population dead (1 in 200). About 5 times that (or more) injured.
NYC is about 10 million, I believe. Imagine 200K dead + many more injured, in a city with some of the best medical care and first responders in the world.
It is so much worse in Haiti.
I understand charity creep can seem tiresome. But the cost of still having your life and a little money is that you have to suck it up sometimes when faced with the reality.
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| | | 65 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 13:47
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I was only partial sarcasm, I mean if it really works why not put charity more in people's faces. Why do people give mostly at the holidays why not try and make it a year around cause?
But the cost of still having your life and a little money is that you have to suck it up sometimes when faced with the reality.
???
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| | | 66 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 13:59
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If your post was sarcastic than it doesn't really apply. But if your post was non-sarcastic, my reply was meant to point out that we (the haves) sometimes need to stop complaining about how tiresome responding to the needs of the have-nots can be.
That's all.
Your post, in fact, echoes something I heard over the weekend from a self-proclaimed "Palinite." Something like "how about Hollywood stop whining and throw a concert with their own money" kind of thing and "leave regular Americans out of it" about Haiti.
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| | | 67 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 14:08
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my reply was meant to point out that we (the haves) sometimes need to stop complaining about how tiresome responding to the needs of the have-nots can be.
easy way to solve that is not to respond or respond more often then you do not feel guilty when you do not respond later on.
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| | | 68 | Canadian Hack
ID: 10371623
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 15:00
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About 2% of the population dead (1 in 200).
Which of these is correct? 1 in 200 is 0.5%. 2% is 1 in 50.
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| | | 69 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 15:28
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Sorry--200K dead (est) / ten million population (est) = 2%. One in 50. There was an earlier report (I don't think I bookmarked it) where an estimated 1 in 220 were killed.
The percentage might go higher, of course. The epicenter of the quake was just ten miles from the capital, in which about 20% of the population lived.
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| | | 70 | biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 04:19
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Translating David Brooks.
TRANSLATION: Although it is true that Haiti was just like five minutes ago a victim of a random earthquake that killed tens of thousands of people, I’m going to skip right past the fake mourning period and point out that Haitians are a bunch of lazy n#$%#%s who can’t keep their dongs in their pants and probably wouldn’t be pancaked under fifty tons of rubble if they had spent a little more time over the years listening to the clarion call of white progress, and learning to use a freaking T-square, instead of singing and dancing and dabbling in not-entirely-Christian religions and making babies all the f!@#ing time. I know I’m supposed to respect other cultures and keep my mouth shut about this stuff, but my penis is only four and a third inches long when fully engorged and so I’m kind of at the end of my patience just generally, especially when it comes to “progress-resistant” cultures.
I think Matt might violate our policy of civility and respect. ;)
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| | | 71 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:02
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Why would you post the "translation" and not the original column? I guess shock and awe is more effective.
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| | | 73 | biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:04
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I linked to the original column text. The non-lazy can easily click through.
I just thought it was funny and somewhat on mark.
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| | | 75 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:10
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oh i found the original text, It doesn't change your motive.
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| | | 76 | biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:17
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No doubt.
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| | | 77 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 10:46
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The translation was funny, if not entirely fair. Brooks is right in some aspects. We've spent trillions trying to improve conditions in countries like Haiti, and the results have been, in many cases, discouraging.
By now, we should know that you can't just throw money at these countries and expect positive results.
And let's be honest. Countries steeped in poverty with high birth rates create an endless cycle of misery for their poorest citizens that can't be improved unless a cultural shift toward responsible family planning is realized.
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| | | 78 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 11:40
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Sure. Now what will we do, exactly, with the American South?
:)
I think Brooks is so busy expressing his charity frustration to notice that he's trying to solve the wrong problem, here. His critique is like having a lazy brother-in-law who gets hit by a bus walking down the street, and complaining that the no-good lazy bones should have been in a car like any other decent hardworker.
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| | | 79 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:02
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Or like saying global warming exists because we have data showing increasing temperatures.
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| | | 80 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:09
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Er, no, that's completely different.
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| | | 81 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:11
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but wait both show throw scientific study correlation. I am confused we pick and choose when we choose to use science?
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| | | 82 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:13
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I am quite sure that you are attempting to use the term "scientific correlation" here either deliberately incorrectly or without understanding what the term actually means.
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| | | 83 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:18
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No i am trying to use it deliberately correctly, read brooks is article is based on studies done, just as global warming is based on studies done.
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| | | 84 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:21
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Again, though--solving the wrong problem. Like complaining about unemployment & crime rates in New Orleans in the wake of Katrina.
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| | | 85 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:41
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So what is solving the right problem?
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| | | 86 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 12:46
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The biggest problems have to do with distribution. But longer term, we need to start thinking about infrastructure (including those things we did in Baghdad: sewerage, water, electricity, etc).
This is an opportunity to re-build doing it the right way--there are virtually no construction standards in Haiti. But costs are a concern and that is a problem we need to address as well.
Frankly, there are so many problems to be examined right now that talking about corruption, etc is distracting.
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| | | 88 | biliruben
ID: 461142511
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 14:49
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By now, we should know that you can't just throw money at these countries and expect positive results.
And let's be honest. Countries steeped in poverty with high birth rates create an endless cycle of misery for their poorest citizens that can't be improved unless a cultural shift toward responsible family planning is realized.
Agreed. And I would guess Matt would agree to (if you clicked through).
That said, is a catastrophic natural disaster where millions who survived are left homeless and starving the time to discuss family planning?
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| | | 89 | boikin
ID: 532592112
Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 14:54
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But longer term, we need to start thinking about infrastructure (including those things we did in Baghdad: sewerage, water, electricity, etc).
This is an opportunity to re-build doing it the right way--there are virtually no construction standards in Haiti. But costs are a concern and that is a problem we need to address as well.
Frankly, there are so many problems to be examined right now that talking about corruption, etc is distracting.
I believe this is the issue addressed being addressed.
Re 87: I am sure if they had pictures of homeless people dying on the cover of every magazine and that is all they talked about everyday on the news you would get telethons for them too...It just human nature, nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. I mean ask yourself why do celebrities adopt kids from foreign countries when they have kids in need of adoption here.
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| | | 90 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jan 31, 2010, 14:45
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UN working on the food distribution problem.
If there is one thing the UN has experience in, it is food distribution in devastated areas. This is good news, I think.
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| | | 92 | Boldwin
ID: 26451820
Tue, Feb 02, 2010, 15:35
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Great great find, B7! Amazing how divorced the democratic process is from how policy is really set. American people would not stand for the deliberate impoverishment of Haiti and this waiting game [for mysterious purposes] to develop, if they were aware of it but the media has these 'black hole' zones they won't cover properly like Africa also. And these families like the Bush's and their cooresponding oligarchs in Haiti just keep dealing in the dark.
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