Self Editor

Forum: pol
Page 3419
Subject: Political Gurupie 2010 Baseball Season Discussion

Posted by: nerveclinic - Leader [05047110] Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 04:07

This is a new thread seperate from draft discussion to discuss all thoughts about the new baseball season.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 04:08

OK allow me to start.

Zambrano starts me off with a 54.00 ERA game???

WTF

Boldwin
ID: 535651
Tue, Apr 06, 2010, 07:20

I don't know if Zambrano's turning into a headcase has resulted in his pitching problems...

...or if his pitching problems turned him into a headcase...but it aint happening for Zambrano until something radical changes.

Great One
ID: 592262415
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 11:51

I thought this league was active and people talked a lot. Nobody has said anything since Opening Day... perhaps you have all just accepted the fact that I am going to win this thing! :)

And damn, I left Kelly Johnson on my bench last night. Boo.....

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 12:46

I just got back from San Francisco, and was more concerned with golf(when the weather permitted) and family matters than baseball.

Now that I'm back, I'll do my best to participate in such smack as ,

"Nice going, GO, leaving KJ on your bench last night."

Tree
ID: 248472317
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 13:27

if anyone is looking for a quality 2b/SS, Asdrubal (he should be the new doug mankeiskaeiqix of the message board) Cabrera is available. I'm looking for a quality OF i can count on.

Biliruben movin
ID: 358252515
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 13:55

I need more dodgers...

Great One
ID: 592262415
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 14:03

But on the other hand, I'm glad that Kelly is doing well. Sometimes I don't mind a guy going off on my bench if it means he's gonna be worth something.

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 15:28

I felt the same about Casey McGehee after his opening night.

Boldwin
ID: 634489
Thu, Apr 08, 2010, 17:22

We talk smack plenty but it's a wee bit too early for me to strut when our entire pitching rotation hasn't even fired on all cylinders.

Biliruben movin
ID: 358252515
Tue, Apr 13, 2010, 16:02

Still need more dodgers. Who has kershaw for instance?

Oh, a d y'all suck.

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Thu, Apr 15, 2010, 07:40

Ya gotta a lotta damn nerve stompin' on my waiver claim.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 14:42

last summer, my trade of Ubaldo Jimenez to PD sparked a lot of controversy. I maintained that he was a rising STAR, a future STUD, and going to end up being one of the best pitchers in the game.

most everyone else who chimed in referred to him as mediocre or average. a lot of nasty venom was spilled both mine and PD's way for the trade. i believe, unfortunately, that trade paved the way for some owners to make the decision to leave this league.

yesterday, Jimenez pitched the first no-hitter in the history of his franchise, and the first of what i think will be 2 or 3 more in his career.

his numbers since the all-star break last year are amazing. 12-3, 117 Ks in 123 IP, a 2.77 ERA and a 1.14 WHIP. Those are ACE numbers, and barring injury, i'm betting he'll be one of the top five SPs drafted next season in most leagues.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 17:21

I think we're probably the only two who aren't surprised, tree.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 20:24

Didn't one of those people also claim Wainwright wasn't good either? no wonder I was left with absolutely no pitching. Apparently lack the ability to assess it.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 20:31

he was referred to as "dreck"...

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 20:48

As an fyi, GO, the trade was Choo for Jimenez. Straight up, as I recall.

Boldwin
ID: 11301223
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 21:30

So you guys are predicting the death of the 'no reliable pitcher from Colorado' rule of thumb?

It would be something if Francis comes back and we get two exceptions.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Apr 18, 2010, 23:35

Since 2002 when they determined that the problem was the dry air of Denver (and they installed a huge humidor to store the baseballs in), Coors has been fairly middle-of-the-road in terms of dingers.

No surprise that the only 1-0 games at Coors have occurred after 2002.

In fact, I believe that not long after, MLB passed a rule to ensure game baseballs were stored at a certain temperature & humidity.

The Rockies finally have two good young pitchers who might really take them places.

Boldwin
ID: 11301223
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 06:30

I've been meaning to investigate if the curveballs still fail to bite in Denver.

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 09:06

Jiminez got lucky.

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 09:13

I just think they finally got some decent pitching. The humidor does seem to have a significant effect, but Colorado is still not a pleasant place to pitch.

I do think Ubaldo is a good pitcher. I still wouldn't want to use a keeper spot on a pitcher who has to pitch in Denver for half his games. I'm biased against keeping pitchers in general, however.

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 09:14

Particularly when you can draft such bargains as Gavin Floyd. Ouch.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 11:41

I still wouldn't want to use a keeper spot on a pitcher who has to pitch in Denver for half his games. I'm biased against keeping pitchers in general, however.

while i agree with you that it takes an exceptional pitcher to be a keeper for me, i think Jimenez's numbers in Denver aren't really much of a concern, and his career numbers bear that out.

he's played 3 less games at home than on the road, yet has more career wins in denver. his ERA, WHIP, and BAA are all lower at home. he does have less K/IP at home, but considering the differences in the ratios (ERA a full .61 lower at home), i think that's manageable.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 12:29

Just using an unbiased source, Rotoworld ranks Choo as 68 on keeper cheat sheet and Ubaldo 111.

I kept Grienke but didn't keep Josh Johnson for instance who Rotoworld ranks 67 and 1 no hitter doesn't make Ubaldo a keeper in my mind but to each his own.

In the thread where we discussed the trade, PD compared Ubaldo to Gallardo on my team who I also didn't keep.

Looking at my list of keepers though I probably wouldn't have kept Choo either but I wouldn't have to think twice if the choice came down to Choo and Ubaldo, but then like Bili, I don't keep pitchers. (only kept Grienke this year)

The thing is, I just reread the discussion and it wasn't that big an argument at first, it's just that whenever someone discusses one of Trees trades he goes off like a rocket and keeps picking at it like a scab insisting everyone see the trade exactly as he does.

My first comment was "Its not an outrageous trade, just another head scratcher.", but Trees like a dog with a bone when he gets in these discussions and won't be happy unless we all see it his way.

Looking back at my discussion of it at the time I don't think I said anything I disagree with now, and even with the hindsight of Ubaldo's second half, rotoworld ranked Choo 60 points higher on their keeper cheat sheet.

12 games into the season Choo already has 4 HR's, batting 3.50 and has a grandslam.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 12:33

I couldn't find any reference in the 2009 season discussion or 2009 draft discussion where anyone disparaged Wainwright, maybe I just am not looking in the right place?

Great One
ID: 33326158
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 12:34

Adding to the unbiased pile... ESPN has Ubaldo at #46 overall and Choo at #73.

Ahead of other SP's like Kerhsaw, Josh Johnson, Gallardo (#57), Wainwright, Hamels, Johan etc.

Great One
ID: 33326158
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 12:43

It was before my time, but I believe Zen said Wainwright and Porcello sucked when Tree traded them I think? FYI - ESPN has Porcello at #102 overall (even ahead of Papelbon).

Ya know, cause Wainwright who was Cy Young third place, is in his prime and is already off to a nasty start this year wasn't worth a mid round draft pick or two I guess. And PD got McCutchen AND K-Rod AND Porcello too. Jesus, I gave up a 1st and a 3rd just for Billingsley in G20! lol... That was a great trade for both, Tree got some value for guys he couldn't keep and PD made significant upgrades to multiple positions and it only cost him some mid round picks which amount to a hill of beans when you consider 14 teams x 7 keepers.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 14:11

Adding to the unbiased pile... ESPN has Ubaldo at #46 overall and Choo at #73.

I was referring to the draft kit, ESPN has Choo at 67 and Ubaldo at 92.

By the way Fantasy Focus RAVED about Ubaldo today and said he is close to cracking top 10.

Great One
ID: 33326158
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 14:23

I was using ESPN's keeper rankings, which are different than the regular draft kit obviously. It was from a March article though so it was looking at the draft but from a keeper perspective.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 14:43

Jimenez was one piece of many--I was tired of a bunch of old rag arms on the team (I think Moyer might have even been on the team last year) and when your entire staff revolves around Buerhle you're going to get steady, unspectacular innings-eaters.

Jimenez, Wainwright, Porcello, de la Rosa, Verlander is what I decided to work with. Long-term this seems like a winning strategy.

Boldwin is right that having two Rockies SP is a high risk venture, though.

I thought that I was screwed after Nathan went down, but I got extremely lucky with Feliz being named a closer so I've got someone to plug into that slot.

Now if only I had better hitting. Seriously, what is with VMart, Swisher & Mark Reynolds?

Building 7
ID: 471052128
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 15:31

Permdude...Who is managing your team this year? Somebody is making good decisions, so far. How old are your kids now? That may explain it.

Boldwin
ID: 11301223
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 15:42

I always did think Swisher and Reynolds are as likely to struggle as to repeat.

I also think that the mind-bending problem of switching from a park where curveballs significantly fail to break in the thin air of the home park, to any other series where they do, is a recipe for disaster.

Even a great pitcher is going to have many off years in that situation imo.

SF has a somewhat similar problem I have heard. The cool evening breeze off the bay in the night games can make the temperature so changable that it effects health and performance.

Texas players I think have to deal with exhausting conditions in the extreme heat that effect their stamina thru the year. A lotta stuff that makes comparing stats difficult. I wonder if the heat has anything to do with my Haren bogging down in the second half?

C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 16:23

And to think that I was on the fence as to whether or not to keep Choo. Glad I did; I think that trade worked out OK for me since I got also Dunn in the deal (he'll come around).

I'm also glad I kept Gallardo even though he hasn't done much yet. I hope I'm glad I kept Cliff Lee, even though I couldn't consider not keeping him at the time.

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Mon, Apr 19, 2010, 22:29

I'm thinking few people thought Matt Capps would have 6 saves for the Nats by April 19.

Action Figure
ID: 191051289
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 10:44

<--------is wondering when Tree is going to make an offer for the Golden Boy.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 11:12

who's the golden boy? there are several of them right now, IMHO.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 12:34

My hitting keepers were supposed to be the core of this team, and its been an absolute disaster. The only guys producing are the pitchers I drafted. And Kelly Johnson who I drafted.

Action Figure
ID: 191051289
Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 23:41

who's the golden boy? there are several of them right now, IMHO.

Several on your Mets?

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Apr 26, 2010, 01:40

Great One "My hitting keepers were supposed to be the core of this team, and its been an absolute disaster."

Sounds like a man ready to trade... ;^}

Great One
ID: 23336239
Mon, Apr 26, 2010, 12:15

I am absolutely not married to any hitter except Hanley. And even he could be had if you brought enough to the table. And I think most are aware that I am the most active trader there is.

Sure glad nobody took me up on those package offers I sent to everyone earlier in the season that included David Price. He's becoming an elite SP. I am going to look at swapping him for comprable young SP types (and Matusz as well) cause I hate having to cheer against the Red Sox so much.

biliruben
ID: 113582522
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 18:31

Nice Freakin' draft, Pancho.

Furcal, Vlad, McGehee, Capps.

Out of there minds.

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 19:06

Keeping Cantu has worked well so far. I couldn't believe how low the 'experts' had him rated at both 3B and 1B, not in the top 10 at either position.

Biliruben movin
ID: 358252515
Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 19:13

Yeah your Floridians are torrid

nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 00:39

Ok well two keepers and one early draft pick on DL anyone got me
beat?

Jimmy Rollins, Jacoby Ellsbury and Brett Anderson

Biliruben movin
ID: 358252515
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 10:02

Bittersweet pickup of meek, as I was at the game last night to
watch him help blank my woeful dodgers.

Boldwin
ID: 183112613
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 11:31

I have both closers on the shelf. I get to find out what punting a category is like for the first time.

biliruben
ID: 113582522
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 12:38

I don't have any original closers left either. I wish they went on the DL instead of imploding and shooting my ratios through the roof.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 13:04

i had one keeper start the year on the DL.

my 1st draft pick is hitting below .200, with no homers, and single digits runs and RBIs.

my 2nd draft pick has an ERA of 9.00 and a WHIP of 2.11 and is about to lose his closer job.

my 4th draft pick isn't even on my team anymore. i don't think he's above .200 yet.

my 5th draft pick is hitting .236 with one dinger.

my 7th draft pick is also no longer on my team. he's barely above .200, and has single digits runs and ribbies.

so, yea, i'm feeling that crunch.

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, Apr 30, 2010, 13:14

I've had 5 on the DL. There's another 5 I wish had been on the DL.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sat, May 01, 2010, 15:38

Names please.

Tree I didn't ask which of your draft picks suck. I am asking does anyone have three top players on the DL.

Reyes barely counts because he was expected before the season to start on the DL.

Ellsbury, Rollins and Brett Anderson

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Sat, May 01, 2010, 15:51

Names please.

That goes in the immigration thread.
Geez, I'm getting audited.

Berkman
Manny
Cruz on Texas
Hill
Fuentes

I'm not complaining, though. You can't even really count Manny or Berkman. They're always hurt. I'm just glad we have 3 DL slots.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, May 01, 2010, 16:01

Heard about Manny's new book?:

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, May 02, 2010, 00:13

Hill and Cruz are tough, luckily Hill came back quickly.

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sun, May 02, 2010, 17:40

How the game can turn in a single day:

Fri/Sat: Yovani Gallardo + Cliff Lee= 14 IP, 0.64 ERA, 19 K, 0.75 WHIP, 1 W

Today: Jered Weaver + Edwin Jackson= 8.2 IP, 12.46 ERA, 6 K, 2.31 WHIP

Weekend totals: 22.2 IP, 5.16 ERA, 25 K, 1.36 WHIP, 1 W.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, May 03, 2010, 00:20

Who would have thought, 2 years later: Both Crede and Brynes released from MLB teams.

C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Mon, May 03, 2010, 09:24

Byrnes pulled the bat back on a suicide squeeze.

ESPN Recap (end of article)

Also see this thread.

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, May 04, 2010, 14:46

Ubaldo is looking like a top Cy Young candidate at this point.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, May 04, 2010, 14:53

I'm very pleased with how it has worked out. Not so pleased with Porcello, but not everything works out the way you draw it up, especially with pitchers.

I'm extremely high on Wade LeBlanc, however. I think that guy is a real diamond in the rough, and the longer Chris Young stays out the more this guy is going to get a chance to show his stuff in SD.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, May 04, 2010, 15:12

the funny thing is that Baldwin could have had Ubaldo for a relative song. 10 months ago i offered to trade him straight up for Alfonso Soriano before PD and i went to the swap meet.

i'm actually amazed going back and reading the thread how many people bashed Jimenez as average and mediocre.

this is one of those cases where it was a win-win deal for both sides.

one of PD's posts back then said I do wonder why I get a lot of flack for trades when they occur, but never any "you were right, PD" after the dust settles and in fact I was right...

that was immediately followed by NC saying Link please... 8=]

well PD and NC, looks like we got that in post 57 above. :oD

Boldwin
ID: 183112613
Tue, May 04, 2010, 16:36

There is not a chance in the world I would have named him a keeper so I've got no regrets.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Thu, May 06, 2010, 14:40

i cannot believe i once traded away this world beater.

Eric Byrnes joins softball league

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, May 07, 2010, 09:48

but never any "you were right, PD" after the dust settles and in fact I was right...

The only reason I came on and mentioned Ubaldo's performance in post 57 was in relation to all the discussions that went on about the trade so yes I guess PD got what he was looking for.

Really right now Ubaldo is looking like a top 10 pitcher. I would probably trade Adam Jones for him if I owned him. 8^)

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, May 07, 2010, 22:39

Wow, last to first. Won't last, but the view is nice.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:41

Calling up Matusz today.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, May 11, 2010, 04:05

First time, in like, 7 years I've been on top more than a day. So pardon me but: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Where's Zen now, eh?

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, May 11, 2010, 04:06

Congrats, PD. Great season so far.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, May 11, 2010, 08:33

good draft picks and free agent pick ups (Swisher! Wiggington! Gardner!Jackson! (and Jackson kills me. i didn't think he'd get drafted, so he was going to be my first pick in the prospect draft). And i believe Feliz was a prospect pick for you, so it's always nice when those work out.

i'm looking at some of the guys i traded to you - mccutchen, but even more so wainwright and jimenez and thinking wow. those two are a combined 11-0, with an ERA under 2.00 and a WHIP under 1.00.

wow did i get screwed.

Great One
ID: 4841108
Wed, May 12, 2010, 11:02

And yet it was considered so unbalanced and ridiculous that you were screwing PD that it caused someone to leave the league haha...

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Thu, May 13, 2010, 23:01

Latos is one of my prospects and I was going use him in his next start. Please drop him.

nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, May 14, 2010, 00:58

I am kind of shocked I was able to get Lind with the second to last
waiver pick. I know he's having a slow start put it's early, this is a
14 team league, and he was a what? Top 50-60 draft pick?

Also surprised to get Howie Kendrick with last waiver spot although
less so.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, May 14, 2010, 02:08

I've been kind of scared off by Lind's freefall at the plate this month myself. Maybe he'll get out of it just fine, but without a deep bench he didn't seem like a good pickup to me.

I've been trying to squeeze one guy on my roster for three days now and just can't do it. I was going to move Porcello and decided to get one more game out of him, in which he tosses a real gem. I never thought Wiggington or Polanco would continue to bring their A game this far into the season. Frankly, at this point I'm usually desperately looking over the waiver wire to make up for drafting mistakes I finally have given up on!

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, May 14, 2010, 09:09

I meant to pick up Lind. He didn't seem to be on waivers very long. Plus, my internet broke. nerve, you can owe me...lq

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sat, May 15, 2010, 00:35

PDI was going to move Porcello and decided to get one more game out of him, in which he tosses a real gem.

Now Porcello I dropped in public leagues 2 weeks ago.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, May 15, 2010, 10:46

Yeah--not all pitchers pan out, but I never though Livian Hernandez would be outpitching Porcello at this point in the season.

Today I've got two pitchers going against each other--in Colorado. And another pitching in Cincinnati. Should be an interesting day.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, May 16, 2010, 13:31

Geesh... gigantic trade with multiple keepers and nobody has said a word? PD - we should swap backup catchers - there would be 200 posts about how you are getting screwed lol...

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Sun, May 16, 2010, 16:15

I think zen's histerionics made us numb to trades. We got to
the point where we would just hope noone would quit over it.

I actually like the trade. The two main pieces- upton and
wright- seem like two solid buy lows.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, May 17, 2010, 01:09

yea, i wasn't expecting too much commentary on the trade, unfortunately...and i'll leave it at that.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, May 18, 2010, 13:16

For the sake of clarity, note that the recent trade is:

Taxman: Grady Sizemore + 5th round pick

PD: Rick Porcello + 3rd round pick

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, May 18, 2010, 13:28

wow. Grady Sizemore's stock has dropped.

Great One
ID: 4841108
Tue, May 18, 2010, 13:42

He's hurt too now so that just compounds things. Glad I moved him for Morneau in G20.

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, May 18, 2010, 15:17

I'm buying low. I hope.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Tue, May 18, 2010, 17:16

Why are the benches so short in this league?

C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Tue, May 18, 2010, 17:36

We have three DL spots.

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, May 18, 2010, 17:54

And 5 prospect spots.

As it is, we have almost all fulltime position players on our
roster.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Tue, May 18, 2010, 17:55

Yeah, I guess I just find it tough to field a starting lineup sometimes when you can't back up all or most your positions. And we don't have the same day moves so when a guy doesn't play you are just screwed.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, May 18, 2010, 18:07

any thought to reducing the DL spots to two, and adding a bench spot?

because while we do have 3 DL spots and 5 prospect slots, none of those are active players.

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Tue, May 18, 2010, 18:38

I would add an NA spot, if it's possible. Plus it would add strategy.

Great One
ID: 39342317
Tue, May 18, 2010, 18:59

Yeah, as Tree said you have 5 prospects and 3 DL but none of those are "liquid" in finance terms... I can't get that guy in my lineup and use him immediately to help cover games.

FYI - I am looking to deal a SP for a hitter, any position hitter, all SP available.

Taxman
ID: 53382122
Tue, May 18, 2010, 21:47

Confirm draft picks listed in post #78 by PD.

PD hopes he's buying low. For 2 1/2 years I've been trying to get out of Sizemore, but I also have Kemp..thus all OF offers (except for tree) focused on Kemp (except for the "swell" trade giving Ethier for Derrick Lee..a stupid trade since I have Smoak as a prospect).

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Wed, May 19, 2010, 01:38

Heh. At the time, I thought it stupid of me to make that trade. Ethier had shown himself to be a pretty mediocre bat who couldn't really hit lefties who played the outfield. Derrick was a keeper of mine who had had a terrific 2009.

All he needed was a little love. ;)

Of course, as soon as he reaches all-universe status, he breaks his pinkie. Jeez.

Can we expand to 4 DL slots?

Boldwin
ID: 184151813
Wed, May 19, 2010, 03:11

You could talk me into it. Rather have two more bench slots like any sane league.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, May 19, 2010, 08:21

was there a chance in the league settings, where we reverted back to the old position-by-position settings for what slot you want someone in (as opposed to the drag and drop), or was it somehow a setting i hit for my own team?

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, May 19, 2010, 08:22

eh, never mind. found the setting. must have clicked it accidently days ago.

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Wed, May 19, 2010, 08:33

I'd be favorable to adding another bench slot.

Great One
ID: 4841108
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:11

Yeah we actually have 7 bench spots in Dirty Dozen (3 DL). And 8 in G20 (with prospects, but no DL).

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:27

The obvious problem with an extended bench is the lack of competent free agents. Even now, try finding a decent SP among the crumbs available.

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:32

Yeah. I am looking at Ethier right now, and thinking "who would I pick up to put in that spot, even if I did have a DL spot open?"

Probably a marginal prospect or a failed prospect.

I don't think this would do much for people. If you are used to having 2 or 3 shortstops lying a round just in case, than maybe it's annoying you can't have duplicates and every position.

Personally, I think it makes it more interesting, having the super-utils have at least some marginal value, because you can sub them into many spots in a pinch.

Don't want to make it too easy.

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:33

eh..i see at least a half-dozen.

what is more likely to pass in this league?

adding an extra bench spot outright, or swapping a DL slot for a bench slot?

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:37

The home league I designed only has 2 bench slots, so you know how I feel.

I prefer a few useful players in the FA pool instead of stacked on the most anal person's benches.

I like making transactions, so I prefer there to be players useful players as FAs.

I am guessing I'm in the minority, however.

100

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:47

Bili - one of my feelings is that an extra bench slot would encourage trades - it's hard to trade in this league because of fitting puzzle pieces, which is necessary because of the short benches.

101

biliruben
ID: 113582522
Wed, May 19, 2010, 09:50

Maybe it would encourage trades, but I doubt it.

If a player is a marginal player picked up off the FA wire, I just don't see him having an impact on a trade.

If someone's trying to trade me their bench players, I am more insulted than enticed.

102

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, May 19, 2010, 10:05

although i usually find the rankings in Yahoo a bit random, there are currently 25 players in the top 200 available as free agents, many of which are arguably more valuable than players currently on our teams.

103

biliruben
ID: 113582522
Wed, May 19, 2010, 10:08

As it should be.

104

Great One
ID: 4841108
Wed, May 19, 2010, 10:19

Yeah I've got many free agents I'd like to add and frankly could start on my struggling team. I think it would help the lesser teams like me cover for guys when they are struggling, play other strategies like watching matchups, adding a pair of guys that are platooning or maybe using middle relievers -- but i can't afford to waste spots on platoon guys or middle relievers. So it limits strategy from that perspective.

It makes this league pretty much a "set it and forget it league" which I think hurts it.

Got some solid offers for my pitching -- although everyone seems to be after the same guy. Which leads me to believe I should hold on to him lol...

105

biliruben
ID: 113582522
Wed, May 19, 2010, 10:24

I peruse the WW every morning, and almost always make some sort of transaction, because there are players there worth having. If they were all stashed on people's benches, I'd pay much less attention to this league.

I guess it depends on what you like. If you want to be fiddling with your internal line-up trying to second-guess yourself in endless mental masturbation, or of if you like transactions and trades.

I prefer the later.

106

Building 7 on DL
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, May 19, 2010, 11:03

I am in rare agreement with coach biliruben. Last year , most people played all their games, except for catcher. Used most of their innings. More than any other league I have been in. I'm not a big fan of roto style, but I can usually make up ground in the counting stats, just by playing all the games that you can. Not in this league, though. Because most of the teams do it. An extra bench spot, would just suck up a bunch of free agents, that are not really needed anyways.

107

Great One
ID: 4841108
Wed, May 19, 2010, 11:55

I find that I need to use the entire free agent pool as my actual bench which leads to even more second guessing cause inevitably there is someone on there that i was looking at that had a good day. And thats not useful when a guy sits out a game cause I can't add a guy to cover that day. I think it would work better if we had the same day transactions for sure. Maybe if they get the freeze thing figured out by next year we can look at that.

As many in this league can attest there is no gurupie that trades more than I do, and I'm struggling to find good trades that line up well for both team due to the lack of flexibility in the rosters. Ya know - I can't move this or that guy, he's my only _____...

Although like I said, the pitcher for a hitter thing has yielded some solid offers but i think thats probably the simplest of trades to execute. Nothing I'm in love with yet though. I'll try and reply to everyone.

108

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, May 19, 2010, 13:27

We don't do the same day transaction method because people accidentally pickup prospects. And there would be no time to correct it. I'm in another yahoo league with same day transactions and it's awesome.

109

Great One
ID: 50461913
Wed, May 19, 2010, 14:06

Thats a good point, I had mentioned in G20 -- they need to incorporate a "Can't Add" list similar to how they have the "Can't Cut List"... would solve these prospect problems.

110

Great One
ID: 50461913
Wed, May 19, 2010, 14:09

B7 I'm mulling the latest counter... its pretty good. Gotta decide if its a move I can afford to make long term.

111

Taxman
ID: 53382122
Wed, May 19, 2010, 22:46

agree (post 99) with Bili (although I am crushed to hear about the pinkie problem...I will gladly reverse the trade) The deeper FA pool is far better than having 14 players deleted from FA status and stashed on someone's bench.

If it ain't broke...don't fix it

112

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 20, 2010, 01:11

I like things as is.

We need three DL's because we are a keeper league. I had Ellsbury, Rollins and Brett Anderson all on DL the last few weeks. In a keeper league I am glad for the slots. I had 6 dl's at one time one year and because keeper league and shallow free agent pool you can't just drop them.

The reason the bench is shallow is exactly what Bili said. The FA pool is already pathetic because we are a 14 team league. Now imagine removing 14 more players from the pool. I think the shallow bench adds a skill dimension being savvy moving in and out of the FA pool.

As far as having difficulties filling slots on days with a lot of players with no games, we are all at the same disadvantage so it makes no difference. I'd rather have someone worth grabbing when my only SS gets hurt, then one extra bench spot.

I would vote against either change.

113

Tree
ID: 248472317
Thu, May 20, 2010, 01:19

the advantage of a longer bench is that you already have that SS on your bench. it requires more strategy when drafting, not the luck of who happens to be in the free agent pool at that time.

114

Great One
ID: 50461913
Thu, May 20, 2010, 09:34

I'd rather have someone worth grabbing when my only SS gets hurt, then one extra bench spot.
We should pick our bench accordingly to backup your positions - like a real manager would. When a guy gets hurt they don't go sign someone off the street hoping someone is in the Free Agent pool that plays that position is available. You plan ahead. But I can play the free agent dance too, so I guess I'll step on the accelerator a little bit with that.

115

Great One
ID: 50461913
Thu, May 20, 2010, 12:17

That trade won't go through til Monday? That seems a bit extreme.

116

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Thu, May 20, 2010, 13:22

It takes forever.

Trade Announcement:

Building 7 trades Manny Ramirez to Great One for Nolasco. Don't know his first name, he's a pitcher on the Marlins.

117

Great One
ID: 50461913
Thu, May 20, 2010, 14:22

In my line of work that would be a T+5 trade lol... I can liquidate my 401K in less time :0

118

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, May 20, 2010, 14:22

If I'm around, I'll push it through this weekend. So long as we have the two day review period I don't have a problem pushing it through ASAP after that.

119

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Fri, May 21, 2010, 15:22

Tree the advantage of a longer bench is that you already have that SS on your bench.

Why would someone have a SS on the bench with only one more slot? What if the extra slot is a SP, RP or 2B?

120

Great One
ID: 594322114
Fri, May 21, 2010, 15:33

Here is an example of how the short bench has hurt me this season and limited strategy and options. My pitching was thin to start the year. I would have really liked to use some of the top middle relief guys in my P spots to help my stats. But to do that I'd have to carry like 9-10 pitchers total. That leaves me one backup hitter. So I've had to go with the SP or bust strategy. And its made many of the middle relief guys difficult to be worthy of rostering unless you want to come way under your innings limit -- or roll with no backup hitters.

122

Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, May 21, 2010, 16:24

Why would someone have a SS on the bench with only one more slot? What if the extra slot is a SP, RP or 2B?

um, it was responding to the direct example.

it could be ANY position. it's just an extra bench slot.

123

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, May 21, 2010, 18:46

Rand Paul: Sounding the alarm against the NAFTA Superhighway

Maybe he's backing out of his Meet the Press appearance to get the crazy out of his system.

124

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, May 21, 2010, 22:20

If I'm around, I'll push it through this weekend. So long as we have the two day review period I don't have a problem pushing it through ASAP after that.

Just do whatever the league rules are. Don't rush it thru.

125

Boldwin
ID: 224592123
Sat, May 22, 2010, 01:16

One effect of the short bench is that anyone like me with two non-performing closers, is completely out of luck when it comes to snagging anyone useful at any other position. Closers in waiting end up taking all slots. So not only is this year shot but I'm out of the running for next year's hot player.

126

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Sat, May 22, 2010, 01:32

Huh? My c-losers all imploded early, yet I'm in the running
for bridesmaid.

127

Boldwin
ID: 224592123
Sat, May 22, 2010, 02:01

Yes, well we aren't allll precient enuff to have realized Kevin Gregg would out save Fuentes and Hoffman combined.

128

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sat, May 22, 2010, 03:43

There wasn't anything prescient about it. I simply drafted their whole bullpen. Brute force.

129

Boldwin
ID: 34472223
Sun, May 23, 2010, 00:07

Thank goodness you had the bench space to accomplish that. */sarc*

130

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sun, May 23, 2010, 01:08

We have ample bench space. I demonstrate it daily. */unsarc*

131

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, May 23, 2010, 10:38

We should pick our bench accordingly to backup your positions - like a real manager would. When a guy gets hurt they don't go sign someone off the street hoping someone is in the Free Agent pool that plays that position is available. You plan ahead.

The math doesn't work, even with a 4th slot. most people use 1-2 slots for pitching, so even with 2 extra you can have lets say a 2B and 3B or SS and OF but not every position backed up. Thus you have to go to the FA pool.

So lets say we do add the slot, now 14 more players are gone and if you are unlucky enough not to have a decent SS, your really in bad shape.

That's what I was saying to Tree but I don't think he understood, or we don't understand each other.

132

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, May 23, 2010, 11:55

Of course I've been wrong before. I hated the idea of using kafienated and now I like it a lot.

133

Taxman
ID: 53382122
Sun, May 23, 2010, 14:40

attaboy nerve..I always considered you one of the brighter and "deep thinkers" in this league...and pretty much expected you would come around (I missed it if you previously endorsed our use of On The Clock)

134

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, May 23, 2010, 19:04

The math doesn't work, even with a 4th slot. most people use 1-2 slots for pitching, so even with 2 extra you can have lets say a 2B and 3B or SS and OF but not every position backed up.

but the flaw in your logic is that you're basically suggesting there's no point in that since it can't be perfect, why not at least try to make it better.

135

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, May 23, 2010, 19:42

Just saying that I'd be in favor of having one additional bench slot.

136

Great One
ID: 39342317
Sun, May 23, 2010, 19:53

14 less guys in the player pool isn't a big deal, there are about 25 guys out there I think could be helping me. And if there were another roster spot and I could actually use some of the middle relievers that player pool would be even deeper.

137

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sun, May 23, 2010, 20:45

I'll confess that if I was given any additional roster spots, I'd fill them with Middle Relievers. But that's just me.

138

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sun, May 23, 2010, 21:08

I fill them with smartest baseball-men in the business, and all of Dontrelle Willis's relatives.

139

C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Tue, May 25, 2010, 16:29

Additional conditions of the trade between C1 and GO:

If GO finishes in the Top 5, C1 gets GO's second round draft pick in exchange for C1's fourth round pick.... if GO finishes 6-10 then its GO's 3rd for C1's 5th round pick -- GO is outside Top 10 then no extra picks exchanged.

140

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, May 25, 2010, 17:10

?

Is for a future trade not yet accepted?

141

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, May 25, 2010, 17:11

If GO finishes in the top three with the player's stats included, the trade will be retroactively offered...

142

C1-NRB
ID: 2911103011
Tue, May 25, 2010, 17:27

The trade is out there (now). Refresh your team in Yahoo! to see it.

I had to make roster adjustments for it to go through and didn't realize it.

143

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, May 25, 2010, 17:40

what a flurry of trades in this league! wow!

144

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, May 25, 2010, 23:47

I really, really did not want to give up Ethier. I unfortunately found myself within striking distance of the lead, and figure I should actually try to address the glaring need of quality pitching.

Hopefully Verlander and Oswalt will at least fit the bill of making my rotation semi-whole.

145

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Wed, May 26, 2010, 13:27

I'm mildly concerned the verlander got hit hard by the hapless
Ms. Let's see how bonderman does today, just to verify a
complete screwup.

146

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, May 27, 2010, 12:39

Verlander is one of the guys on the list of pitchers who pitched X number of increased innings last year from the year before.

X being a statistical number large enough that based on past examples, said pitcher usually declines the following year.

I just can't remember what number X is. 10%, 20%?

Grienke is on the list also but I kept him.

147

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Thu, May 27, 2010, 13:01

Never tell me the odds...

148

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, May 31, 2010, 21:35

jesus. what planet is Ubaldo Jimenez from?!?!

another complete game shut out...

he's a fairly pedestrian 10-1 with 70 Ks, a 0.78 ERA, and a WHIP 0.90.

149

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, May 31, 2010, 22:19

Ho hum, eh? And that game he lost was a doozy, too.

He'll come down to earth a bit, but he's on a Cy Young tear right now. And should start for the NL at the AS Game if he keeps it up a little longer.

150

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 06:36

I think he will start the all star game and he's definitely Cy Young if he finishes at 80% of this pace. Only one in his way is Halliday.

151

Great One
ID: 594322114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 10:52

C1/GO Trade Finalized
GO's 3rd for C1's 5th round pick

We are going to pass on the conditions as originally proposed and settle in the middle of the potential outcomes because I am looking to deal some of these picks and the conditional part of it was tying things up a bit. Do we put that anywhere else? I know in Dirty Dozen we now keep a rolling tally of any trades going throughout the trade thread and on the league homepage.

152

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 10:58

i had established threads in previous years specifically for draft pick trades.

i'd suggest starting a thread called Baseball Transactions 2010, and then get the ball rolling by including your deal, and any others you can find, and then from that point on leave it to the owners making trades to keep up and put their own deals in there.

153

Great One
ID: 594322114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 11:21

I don't see any other draft pick trades in this thread, anywhere else i should be looking?

154

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 13:24

I don't recall any yet this year.

155

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 13:48

#78 includes a swap of picks.

156

Great One
ID: 594322114
Tue, Jun 01, 2010, 15:00

we can make another thread but here for now is fine I suppose

Trade Archive Politics 2010
Taxman: Grady Sizemore + 5th round pick
PD: Rick Porcello + 3rd round pick

GO's 3rd for C1's 5th round pick

157

coldwater coyotes
SuperDude
ID: 229272412
Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 10:42

Buster has joined my team.

158

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 00:49

Why have all my SP become "hard luck" cases?
I'm getting tired of these pitching duels.

My pitching line today (all SP):
24 IP 3 ER 18K 0.75 ERA 0.83 WHIP

1 lousy win from the guy who gave up 2 of the 3 runs. (The other run was a solo HR by a DustStorm Trooper "teammate").

Lines like that have moved me from the cellar to the middle of the pack, though, so I shouldn't complain too much.

159

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 08:00

I'd be happy to get those stats. That Win category can be a crapshoot. I'm sure everyone has a horror story. Last year I was really lucky in Wins. I think I lead the league, and my other stats were average. This year is the opposite. Blowing leads, throwing a shutout and not getting a win, etc. This reversion to the mean stuff is a bitch.

160

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Thu, Jun 03, 2010, 09:16

Yeah, I usually have nasty luck with Ws, but not so far this year.

For me it's been all about Tyler Clippard.

161

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 09:23

Taxman: I have a tax question if you're out there. I finished my 1040 in April and sent in a check for $300 that they cashed. Then, last week, I'm sitting around minding my own business, trying to figure out how to trade some of these closers,.....and I get a check in the mail for $643.26. All it says is Austin tax refund. No explanation. Nothing.

Should I cash it?
Will they be sending an explanation?
Does it have to be an arithmetic error?
Should I contact them? Note, I don't like the federal government, in case you haven't noticed.

Any help would be appreciated, or if anyone else knows something.

162

Boldwin
ID: 24528715
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 09:40

If there was a bench you'da never sniffed Tyler Clippard.

163

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 11:18

B7 - That number looks suspiciously close to what you would get back if you forgot to take the Making Work Pay Tax Credit.

Are you married?

Did you use Turbotax or paper? A lot of people have failed to take that credit.

164

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 11:21

Uhh... you have JJ Hardy and Scott Podsednik on your bench.

'Nuff said.

165

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 11:36

I used paper. No turbotax. Married................................wait for it......................yes.
I don't recall that credit.

166

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 12:59

Cash that sucker. And blow a kiss towards DC.

167

Boldwin
ID: 24528715
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 18:31

That's because they happen to be facing Greinke and Slowey today.

I do have outfielders to burn.

I am offering Victorino for a draft swap your first next year for my fourth, anyone?

168

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 19:54

You mean Greinke (1-7, 3.60 ERA) and Slowey (6-3, 3.84 ERA)?

They aren't the guys they could be right now.

169

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 20:07

I think that was it ruben. I filled out Schedule M and I was $8 off. So, I'm cashing it. Plus, I'm going to Vegas next week. That may cover my wife's losses. Thanks for the tip.

170

Boldwin
ID: 24528715
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 21:10

Look at the other outfielders I have going and their matchups. Then again it doesn't matter if the pitcher hasn't been perfect lately if they happen to have a particular batter's number.

171

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 22:49

I think you miss my point...

172

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 23:09

That's not a terrible offer, I don't need him I don't think.

But I like the spirit'

173

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 15:28

Trade Announcement:

Building 7 trades Brian Fuentes ,RP to DustStorm Troopers for Michael Cuddyer, OF .

174

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 21:58

PD, go ahead and speed up our trade if C1 has no objection.

Are we supposed to post trades somewhere?

The worst pitcher I am going against tonight has a 3.58 ERA and includes the likes of Lincecum and Jiminez. Looks like one of those 3 for 33 nights.

175

Great One
ID: 47515621
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 23:32

if there were any picks involved just copy the running tally in post 156 and update it... if not i don't think it matters.

so can we trade prospects?

176

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 23:40

Yes. We can trade prospects, but i don't think you can go over 5. I've got this Stanton guy that just got called up. Thinking about bringing him up.

177

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 02:00

Re 174: I don't care if goes through early (not that my opinion matters much this late.)

178

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 02:55

Looks like it won't go through until tomorrow anyway.

pd

179

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 18:31

We shouldn't be speeding up trades. The time limit is the time limit. How can you speed it up for some and not others?

180

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sun, Jun 13, 2010, 20:17

Because the default setting should really be shorter then accepting a trade on a Tuesday and not being able to play that guy until Sundays lineups. What is the point of letting it sit there for all those days?

181

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jun 13, 2010, 20:53

We have a two-day review period. But because of the quirks of Yahoo, there can, at times, be five days between when a trade is accepted and when the new player can play for his new manager. I have offered to push through trades but only once there has been a two day (48 hour) review period.

182

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sun, Jun 13, 2010, 23:10

One day is plenty. I would rather do something comprehensive than ad hoc pushes.

183

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 09:02

if both owners agree, i see no issue in pushing trades through.

184

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 09:43

Yeah, I think all we need to do is pull it down to 2 days in Yahoo settings. But I don't think that can be edited during the season.

185

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 09:46

The protest time is set at 2 days and can be adjusted. I don't have a problem with giving guys 2 days--the problem is that sometimes (depending on when the trade was accepted) this could mean a 4 or 5 day transaction period.

I'd like to see 3 days max on these things (2 days for trade review, then the player is in the next day's lineup. But that isn't always happening with Yahoo.

186

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 12:04

And then an extra day gets tacked on because of no same day transactions. Hopefully if they get that "players get frozen" thing fixed for next year we could switch to same day. There really is no reason to have to wait a day to get a player in your lineup. Hell even CBS can do that, and they have 1,001 things wrong on their website.

187

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Jun 16, 2010, 10:44

Aaron Heilman is available for a keeper quality player.

I kid, I kid... look who just cracked the Top 10 in the standings! whoo!!! Top 5 by August 1st? I wouldn't bet against it...

188

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Jun 16, 2010, 10:45

Given the way Zen left, I'm afraid you'll have a big battle on your hands to finish above me with that team, GO. Next year--maybe. This year, no freaking way.

189

Great One
ID: 2751238
Wed, Jun 16, 2010, 13:43

He left a good hitting core, but garbage for pitching other than David Price. And he wasn't even a guarantee heading into the season. I had faith in him, but he wasn't highly drafted for sure.

I said I expected all of my keepers other than Hanley to be traded and I'm already well on my way to that with Carlos Lee, Upton and Beckham shipped out.

Matt Holliday is available for a top SP. Also,I would trade Tim Beckham (prospect) for a pitcher to help me right now if that is possible.

190

Great One
ID: 47515621
Fri, Jun 18, 2010, 17:52

Holliday gone, and then there were 3 original keepers left...

David Price for sale for some hitting.
Super prospect Matusz available for a non-keeper type OF.
He's been improving with each start this year... a team out of it should scoop him up cheap for someone they won't keep anyway. He's a lottery ticket.

191

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 08:58

Still looking to trade a closer or two. Including Broxton for a keeper type player.

192

Boldwin
ID: 15528202
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 13:47

B7, take a look at my more than generous offer. I have one proviso since I think it's lopsided straightup...I want your second for my third in next year's draft, which given our current positions is only about 6 picks apart.

193

Boldwin
ID: 15528202
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 14:04

I am also offering someone who has been a keeper for me, to Vampirez.

194

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 18:21

That guy's not doing very well this year, Boldwin.

195

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 19:25

i wonder if it's Granderson or Haren he's trying to Soriano on you...

196

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jun 20, 2010, 21:43

my money is on Soriano...

197

PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 01:08

Actually neither of you were correct

198

Boldwin
ID: 57548233
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 04:54

Haren always ranks pretty high on the list of keepers in any ranking I've ever seen. I am sure there is some factor at work in his decision besides whether Haren actually ranks in the top 50 players.

199

Boldwin
ID: 57548233
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 05:06

Being highly ranked for many durable years and having the second highest KO total in baseball, I don't think that was some kind of sub-par tradebait for a C-loser. I know Tree has tried to pry him away in the past so I don't expect him to be knocking it at least.

200

Boldwin
ID: 57548233
Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 05:09

my money is on Soriano... - PD

Neat trick. Show me how I get value for Soriano considering I haven't owned him for a while.

201

Boldwin
ID: 42651210
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 14:43

A.J.Burnett throwing a gem, but if you can predict his golden periods and hi sour ones you should own him.

Victorino for a closer and a draft upgrade, and I'll even throw Burnett in for free.

202

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 14:57

Just dropped him in Dirty Dozen. In retrospect I should have held him for this start after watching the Indians walk all over the Jays for 4 games. But his inconsistency is maddening.

203

Great One
ID: 3265018
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 15:50

Well hot damn... up to 8th and right behind PD! Gained nearly 30 points this month since I was in last.

204

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 19:13

But I'm gaining on you in the most important stat - trades.

205

Great One
ID: 47515621
Fri, Jul 02, 2010, 23:38

Crap, I better pick it up! I am looking for a HR type OF... doesn't need to be a keeper type, an old guy will due.

206

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Jul 03, 2010, 16:14

so, i'll bite.

are there draft picks involved in that Dotel/Axford for Victorino trade?

if, so what a WEIRD deal for a 13th place team to trade one of his better players for two guys who won't even be closing at the end of the season, much less next year...

207

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 01:38

Yeah, not veto-able or anything like that. Just interesting... choices? if there weren't picks involved.

208

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 02:34

I like Axford myself. I don't believe Hoffman has anything left in the tank, so Baldwin is getting two closers who will get him a couple of points in saves plus another couple in WHIP & ERA.

B7 is in first place in saves by 14 (!) saves, and with Broxton & Wilson will probably still finish in the top 3 in that category. The hitting Victoriino brings to the table will help in out in two categories he is close in--dingers and rbi's.

B7 is obviously shedding what he doesn't need to Baldwin, who can really use it. Frankly, I think Baldwin would do better to try to trade for a good low ERA/WHIP starter myself (since I don't think he'll make up much in saves since he is already 15 down from the next guy in saves) but that's a strategy question more than anything else.

209

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 09:01

I don't think he'll gain in WHIP, they are both 1.30+ in WHIP.

Dotel won't be on the Pirates by the trade deadline, so its a gamble he even has a closing gig. (The whole closer volatility issue in keeper leagues).

Hoffman may be closing again at some point this season, who knows... not like Axford owns the job with a HOF guy setting him up. But Baldwin has Hoffman, so that seems good cause he's handcuffed the MIL situation.

But regardless, when you are in 13th place what is the point of trying to get a couple more points in Saves? He should be trading Victorino for a guy who might turn into a keeper - either a good player who is hurt (hell, he'd be better off trading for Joe Nathan from me) or a young guy that might turn into something.

Cause Victorino was keeper quality... and the guys he got aren't.

210

tree on the evo
ID: 4251457
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 09:41

What GO said....i understand the deal from
B7's perspective....but not at all from
Baldwin's...

211

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 10:17

I think you guys are overstating Hoffman's skill set these days. Axford is a long-term closer and if Baldwin is trying to lock up a top closer for years he's done it.

212

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 12:11

even elite closers are uncertain keepers. and with Baldwin's current crop of players, i don't see how Axford fits in as a keeper at all. he probably has 10 players on his roster i keep before Axford.

213

Boldwin
ID: 40614413
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 14:26

The fact is that I have too many young players who should be long term keepers but who aren't delivering yet. I have to keep them based on their solid promise and early early entry into the majors, something I put great stock in.

There are an awful lot of experts who think 1)Butler and 2)Wieters have the highest ceilings and sweetest strokes and I'm not ready to cut them from my keepers.

3)Carlos Gonzales looks like a budding superstar to me and he is untouchable. [30/105 15 7HR 18 5sb .286 for the month]

4)Curtis Granderson was keeper-worthy before he moved to the stats heaven NYY. [a pulled groin not the sort of injury to effect him next year]]

I probably won't keep 5)Beltran even tho a case can be made for it.

Have you looked at 6)Brennan Boesch's stats for the month? ...[36/102 17 8HR 24 1sb .353]...Take a deeper look at his minor league career. ["Boesch spent the 2009 season with the Erie SeaWolves, in which he led the Eastern League in home runs (28), and finished third in RBIs (93)"

This guy is lookin for real.

7)Ryan Zimmerman is for sure a keeper.

8)Dan Haren is on every keeper list you will ever find.

9)Liriano and 10)Strasburg are looking even better in my estimation.

So the bottom line is despite my miserable standings, and despite my reputation a few years back for having a terrible keeper squad...I just have got to get something for these keepers I will have to throw back into the pool otherwise.

I would have rather gotten draft upgrades but none of you were willing.

True it looks like gaining save points is unrealistic, but then again I could just as easily have three closers instead of none for months [since Mike Gonzalez might come back].

This trade was the only way I could get value from my oversupply at OF [even before Beltran returns]. Victorino may never have had more trade value. This was the time to pull that trigger.

Should I have traded for a starter? Haren/ Strasburg/Liriano/Pelfrey/Peavy [yes Peavy has found himself again...[3W 29K 1.75 0.92 for the month] is as solid a rotation as I have ever had. If Pelfrey fades maybe A.J. Burnett has a few great months that he is certainly capable of. Expect a better second half from me.

214

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 14:37

i think you were so desperate to trade Victorino - a guy you've been trying to move for a year now - you were willing to take anything for him.

he might have been a nice bargaining chip closer to the trading deadline, when you might have been more likely to get a draft pick.

215

Boldwin
ID: 40614413
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 14:45

I wasn't 'desperate' to trade 'him'. I felt he was the one most likely to bring a decent return. I like him just fine.

People don't appreciate Boesch or Carlos Gonzales yet. You can't get full value for Beltran or Curtis Granderson in their current state. What other deal do you see me doing to get value for excess outfielders?

216

Boldwin
ID: 40614413
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 14:47

And waiting till the last minute is exactly how someone like me who has a bad record convincing people to trade, ends up getting nothing.

217

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 15:06

Baldwin - that's my point. you have Boesch and Gonzalez who are tearing it up. where does Axford fit into your scheme in regards to the long-term.

what GO and i are saying is that you traded a keeper or at least a potential keeper for two guys who are neither...

218

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 17:29

He might actually be able to get greater value trading closers at the deadline than victorino.

219

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 20:34

Thats an interesting idea bili -- but I would make a side wager that one of (if not both) won't even be closing for their teams in 2 months. I'm just thinking he could have gotten a more "secure" or "permanent" closer.

If he thinks Axford is a future closer and thats mainly what he was trying to do here, then thats a reasonable plan - and he's got Hoffman to handcuff til that time. But my point of view sees these 3 things... 1. I don't see him keeping either next year. 2. gaining saves is futile at this point 3. who knows if either or will be closing even 2 months from now.

I get the idea of the OF being crowded - he kind of feels his hands are tied with all the solid OF guys and nobody wants to trade for the "no name" guys - they only want the "name brand". Thats why I was forced to deal Morneau in G20 - nobody wanted to get in on Ike or Smoak. So I've been there too and made similar deals because of it. Of course, now I've got 2 up and coming 1B under 25 - so I'll deal with it lol...

220

Boldwin
ID: 57646420
Sun, Jul 04, 2010, 21:47

that's my point. you have Boesch and Gonzalez who are tearing it up. where does Axford fit into your scheme in regards to the long-term

They don't of course. I need to either trade off excess keeper material for trade upgrades or a better shot at rescuing this season by filling a hole in my roster. There was never any thot of getting a keeper back.

221

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 10:38

bili - i was going to say what GO did. fair enough with closers having more value at the trade deadline, i just don't think either of them will be closing six weeks from now.

I need to either trade off excess keeper material for trade upgrades or a better shot at rescuing this season by filling a hole in my roster.

i understand and appreciate that logic - i've used it plenty to stay competitive (until this season, where my team mysteriously sucks).

but in *this* league, those sorts of deals are becoming harder and harder to come by. it's extremely frustrating.

222

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 13:39

Trade Announcements:

Building 7 trades Pablo Sandoval to Tree for Jonathan Sanchez.

After 20 rejected trade offers, me and Tree agreed on a trade. It was the reult of 5 Heinekens meeting 4 Martinis.

Building 7 trades Octavio Dotel and John Axford to Boldwin for Shane Victorino

223

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 14:02

yes. there were lots of drinks involved in the negotiations of that deal.

224

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Mon, Jul 05, 2010, 14:09

I think 4 Martinis may actually top 5 Heinekens in total alcohol content. Anyways, good luck on the trade.

225

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Tue, Jul 06, 2010, 23:44

GO, Drew Storen is my prospect. Please drop.

226

Great One
ID: 3265018
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 13:52

Dropping Storen...

227

Great One
ID: 3265018
Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 13:53

I passed Perm Dude! whohoo!!!

228

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Sun, Jul 11, 2010, 18:33

CC has a great team that's been decimated by injuries. He'd be in first if healthy.

229

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 21:04

grrr. I sat Francour today because be was facing Wainwright. Double wammy.

230

Great One
ID: 38649207
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 13:56

Damn, I was hoping to we'd go a whole month without and discussion... boo!!! :0

231

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 15:20

i'm opening up the trading block for any contenders - or really, anyone.

my team never seemed to click this season, and i think it lends credence to my argument last season that it wasn't the superstars that made my team, but rather the role players and great draft picks.

last year, Montero, Prado, Scutaro, Escobar, Coghlan, Rajai Davis, Ubaldo, and Adam Wainwright (drafted in the 12th round!) were the glue that held the superstars together. i didn't have such luck this year.

there are definitely some untouchables, and i feel like i've got more than enough keepers for next season, but the right deal is there to be had.

232

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Wed, Jul 28, 2010, 20:10

Well I screwed up and left Johan on my bench by accident.

Thank god.

That's how my season's rolling so far!

233

Boldwin
ID: 426132914
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 15:19

I've been just the opposite with A.J.Burnett. When she was bad she was very very bad. And when she was benched she was lights out.

234

Boldwin
ID: 426132914
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 15:25

Which he credits to his pitching coach. Apparently he's such a head-case that he flakes out whenever the coach isn't holding his hand.

235

C1-NRB
ID: 2672611
Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 15:40

Draft picks involved in the trade between Tree and I are:

My Second round for his Seventh round.

Because Pagan straight up for a rookie MR doesn't look right.

236

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 09:19

Three of my players traded, all from the NL to AL. Bad news for Cantu and Guzman, who go from everyday players to spot starters, even spottier when Kinsler returns.

I fear an August swoon for my team unless Morneau comes back strong and soon.

237

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 11:48

i'm not sure Cantu really drops in value - in Texas, he gains.

he's going to be their starting first baseman.

238

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 12:48

Lost a closer.

239

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 16:15

Lost a closer.

Join the club.

240

Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 16:45

To quote Duane Allman: Can't lose what you never had.

241

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Jul 31, 2010, 20:57

Heh. You're going with the "all sticks" squad, I think.

I think I'm pretty much stuck where I am on saves. At this point the guys above me are *way* above me in saves--I doubt I'll catch anyone.

242

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 09:13

Anyone know how to contact CC? He isn't responding to emails.

243

Great One
ID: 556282911
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 09:19

Chris Perez is available for a keeper quality player that I like.

244

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 10:23

still looking to move Mauer and large portions of my roster for the right price.

245

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 10:26

All I get from CC is rejected trade responses.

246

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Aug 02, 2010, 10:38

Ditto. I did get a "Whaaat?" once when I offered up a somewhat stupid deal, however.

247

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 10:16

Leapin' conspiracy theorists!

Nice jump B7. That graph of your progress is impressive.

You don't really expect me to believe that Jose Bautista can hit in 32 guys in 1 month, do you? Do you?

I think we need a truth commission or something.

248

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 13:20

The only way I can explain Bautista's season is with the movie "Damn Yankees" And if that's the case, he wouldn't be a good keeper for next season.

249

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Aug 04, 2010, 13:34

Crazy. I drafted him in another league late because all the good 3B-eligible players were already taken. I thought he'd be filler until a young buck on some team started showing what he could do.

You know, it probably isn't a coincidence that Bautista signed a contract just before the season. And he was completely unmentioned in any "official" government list of breakout players. Hmmmmm.

250

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Sat, Aug 07, 2010, 01:28

So who's gonna break from the pack of ravenous dogs and come hunt me down?

5 guys nippin' with sharp teeth. This is a weird year. Usually it's two or 3 guys battling at the top. Very balanced this year.

251

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Aug 07, 2010, 09:44

Was just playing around with that standings graph. Pretty cool tool. No surprise that when my offensive stats started tanking so did my place in the standings--pretty much a one-t0-one drop when I went from 12 points in dingers and runs down to 4 points it all came off the wheels.

Ah, I'll still have those great 3 weeks in May.

252

Great One
ID: 47515621
Sat, Aug 07, 2010, 11:11

When was that trade accepted? it feels like a week... was it Wednesday?

253

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 10:07

anyone looking to make a serious run at the championship, or perhaps build for your future, i've got players to deal.

254

Great One
ID: 47515621
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 17:39

So as predicted Dotel no longer a closer and Axford no longer has the sole grip on things. Of course, Victorino is gonna be splitting time now so it may just even out...

255

Tree
ID: 248472317
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 18:02

any draft picks or anything in that trade that went through today?

256

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 19:04

Victorino has been on the DL. Why is he going to be splitting time. He used to be a starter.

257

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Wed, Aug 11, 2010, 19:08

Yeah the manager implied brown will be sent down.

258

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 06:54

Really frustrated by CC's complete lack of response t my trade offers. If he had looked 2 weeks ago when sent might have helped him have a shot at winning.

Anyone interested in Mariano Rivera?

259

Great One
ID: 2275057
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 09:27

because at worst Dominic will be back in Sept and they'll have 4 starting OF's.

260

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Thu, Aug 12, 2010, 09:33

Ditto on vampire's lack of response. Not that he could win anything this year.

261

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 09:18

I went from 6th to 2nd in one day in mid-August. The race for 2nd is tight. As bili pulls away.

262

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 12:57

It still feel it may be too early to get cocky.

Lotta nippers, and one could make the right trade. Cc with a
speedster for instance.

263

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 03:08

CC came on and picked up Kuo, (who I of course dropped right before he's made closer) but he can't answer multiple emails with trade offers.

264

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 03:19

Are you actually making the offers? He may not check that addy.

I know that sometimes yahoo sends to an old addy of mine for no reason. Also, spam filters have become harsh.

Make the actual offer, and he's generally responded (with a decline) pretty quickly.

265

nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 16:58

Bili I couldn't make the offer because it involved a draft pick.

PD said it was the email he is using, and then there's this thread
where I have mentioned it over a few weeks.

266

Boldwin
ID: 217531415
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 17:04

Dangit I'm the one who just dropped Kuo. What are you talking about?

267

Boldwin
ID: 217531415
Sat, Aug 14, 2010, 17:10

When Strasburg came off the DL someone had to go. Hoffman had just gotten a save and Gonzalez' manager had just declared closer was now a game by game decision.

268

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 03:10

Dangit I'm the one who just dropped Kuo. What are you talking about?

Wrong league it was Gurukeepers league.

269

nerveclinic
Leader
ID: 05047110
Sun, Aug 15, 2010, 04:05

sent CC a trade offer that includes a draft pick if he doesn't notice the draft pick will ask league to veto.

270

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 09:28

And I can't believe the Billy Wagner owner in last place didn't trade him for something of value since his career is over in 6 weeks. Surely a contender offered him something?

Why is there no callup system for these prospects? shouldn't the guy with Stanton be enjoying his rookie season instead of hoping he breaks a toe and shuts it down? Whats the fun in that? Seems like allowing at least 1 callup - but still being able to keep the guy should be allowed.

271

Coach Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 09:42

Billy Wagner is retiring?

I recommended adding an NA spot. It went nowhere. I'd rather keep Stanton as a prospect than a keeper. It looks like he will get over 300 AB's, though. Only recently, has he been worth calling up.

272

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 09:47

or a 37-year-old Ichiro who may be in his twilight years? or a 32-year old Chone Figgins. both of whom could have made a difference for a contender looking for SBs.

trying to trade with AF was infuriating. he told me point blank he wouldn't trade with me this because he felt that trading with me last season "gave" me the league championship.

it's infuriating because it prevented me from attempting to improve my team, and it likely means yet another season of him NOT improving his team.

GO - i've proposed a "super prospect" label before, and there were discussions and votes in

this thread (starting with about post 191) and this thread.

it was even voted on as a proposal. i believed in it, and still do. baldwin was in favor of it, and i think MITH was on the fence.

people's complaints registered from "too much to keep track of" to "it'll make stronger teams even stronger".

both of those responses shocked me, because really, is it REALLY that much to keep up with, and i argued it made weaker teams better because i might allow them to keep younger players longer.

anyway, i'd be in favor of working again on a proposal regarding a super prospect, but yep, i'm with you - i spend time hope certain players don't get 300 ABs....

273

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 09:47

Yes, Wagner plans to retire. Said so all season long...

I'm not saying make them keepers. But for example in G24, and the former Lucky 13 - you could call the player up to your active roster and use them - but still carry them over as a prospect if they never meet those thresholds.

274

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 09:55

Really? I have no problem bringing up the Alvarez's and the Stantons and then keeping them. If you believe in your prospect, play him.

I am starting Stanton in a much shallower league than this one right now. May even keep him, with only 4 keeper slots.

Gotta take some risks.

275

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:00

Yeah, but for example - from my perspective in 10th place with Brett Wallace. A pretty solid prospect. Could be helping me right now. But instead I gotta leave him on my prospect list and pray he doesn't get to 300 AB's.

So I think it hurts those at the bottom who could be enjoying the ride and production of some of the prospects they have in their first season. And that does kind of takes the fun out of their callup... and it also makes the FA pool more shallow cause Wallace is in there and you can't use him, and I would cut someone like Lowell that you could then be using.

276

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:01

The simple answer is you let the team use the prospect, they must keep them on their roster (no cutting him at some point and then adding him back) and if they don't meet the threshold they are allowed to be held over as a prospect.

277

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:04

Yeah, that's a good point.

I suppose giving every team one call-up that they could then put back on their prospect list wouldn't be so hard to handle.

Just have a "Protected Call-up" thread and you can put one name in their every season, and hold the prospect rights to him while playing him.

278

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:14

One way to make it easier to track is to not have a call up/send down limit. So long as a prospect is under their playing limits, allow a manager to call him up/send him down at will.

279

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:18

That would work too, I suppose.

Might increase the accidental poaching a bit, but could work.

Our main problem in implementing any changes is the lack of engagement of about a third of the league.

280

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 10:18

G24 we just put a little note in parentheses if the player is on the active roster. So for this commish would note Brett Wallace (A)... and nothing else needs to change. I just get to use him and he still gets evaluated at the end of the season to see if he is under the thresholds and can be carried over.

And I don't see why you wouldn't have multiple if you are fortunate enough to have your prospects called up in a given season. I know over there I am carrying both Carlos Santana and Domonic Brown over for free this offseason.

281

Tree
ID: 248472317
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 11:39

i like this idea - obviously not for this season, but to implemented next - but i really would still like to see something where if a prospect does go over the threshold, you do have the option to keep him as a prospect for the following season - but he must be on your opening day roster.

or, perhaps, you have to sacrifice a second round draft pick to keep him...something like that.

282

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 12:18

I think there is value in doing something like that, but the tricky part there is that it just starts to complicate things, and people like simple and uncomplicated.

283

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 12:41

I would be against such carryover rules, which are merely there to reduce the risk of the prospects.

At some point you have to keep or cut bait with these guys. And if 300 ABs aren't enough, we shouldn't enable managers who can't decide.

284

Great One
ID: 2275057
Mon, Aug 16, 2010, 13:18

Well I'm carrying over Brett Wallace, because thats the most value to my team heading into the offseason. Wallace as a prospect is like a free keeper because I did a good job picking him and thats my reward. But I think it takes the enjoyment out of him being my big prospect because I have to cheer against him hitting that threshold because thats the best scenario for my team long term. Which he won't cause he came up late. But thats the scenario for countless other callups.

My proposed "Let Them Play!"^TM initiative would just get these guys into current lineups, help lower teams that had high prospect picks get those studs into their lineups immediately... and by doing so will have a domino effect of putting some solid veterans (i.e. Mike Lowell from my squad) back into the pool. Right now they are all just sitting on these guys, hoping they break a leg and hoping they can carry i.e. Stanton into next season for free.

285

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 22, 2010, 16:53

i'm gonna say we get serious about making a change to these rules.

although it's not going to help in this case, Baldwin is likely about to get MAJORLY screwed by our prospect rules.

although i think he made a huge tactical error in calling up Strasburg to his squad that had no chance of winning this season (keeping him as a prospect would have given him 8 keepers, technically), the fact remains that he did call him up.

and now he's faced with potentially being forced to keep a potential all-star who might actually miss a majority of next season, if not all of it.

that is particularly damaging to a team that already isn't close to being a contender.

we really do need to make changes.

286

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Aug 22, 2010, 18:18

Any changes would not affect Baldwin's Strasburg project, as no rule changes can be made retroactively.

287

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 22, 2010, 20:17

oh, i'm totally aware. i'm just suggesting this is an example of why the rules need some tweaking.

288

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 09:29

start Volquez... Harden on the bench. Nice.

289

Boldwin
ID: 17222319
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 10:36

How does a strained flexor tendon translate into 'may be out half of next season'. Sounds to me like this is not terribly serious and they are doing all the right things not to ruin the best pitcher in America ala Kerry Wood.

290

Tree
ID: 248472317
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 11:11

they're talking surgery as a possibility, including consultations with Dr. Andrews. that would worry me.

291

Great One
ID: 2275057
Tue, Aug 24, 2010, 15:28

Anytime Dr.Andrews' name is in a sentence with yours you should be VERY worried.

292

Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 17:31

Strasburg update

Strasburg plans to travel to Los Angeles to meet with Angels team doctor Lewis Yocum, an expert on Tommy John surgery, to confirm whether he needs the procedure.

The Nationals announced earlier in the day that an MRI exam had revealed Strasburg has a "significant tear'' of the elbow ligament. Recovery time fom ligament-replacement surgery is typically 12-18 months.

293

Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 19:49

rotoworld.com is reporting that he will definitely be having Tommy John surgery...

294

Boldwin
ID: 317392611
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 20:21

Oh, that is really all I needed.

295

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 21:31

Kicking this around a bit. I'm going to propose a rule change:

Rule change: Prospects may be called up and sent down by a manager over the course of a season without limit, so long as they remain under our prospect threshold limits.

Rationales: It is a pain in the ass to monitor callups. As it is, the moment a manager puts a prospect on their regular roster they no longer have protected status. Given the way many prospects actually play in their MLB career, using our prospects in spot starts (often, just in September) could better reflect this by allowing players to play on regular rosters without losing their prospect status for the guy who drafted them.

Rule changes need a majority agreement to pass (8 managers voting YES), and would take effect for next year's draftees and would not apply to anyone currently on a prospect roster.

I vote: YES

296

Tree
ID: 248472317
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 21:43

i was going to also propose increasing the prospect limits slightly - i think ABs should go up - give a full season of observation to make a decision.

and also something in regards to IP with pitchers - starters can hit that 125 limit in half a season. relievers, in four seasons.

297

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 21:52

I'm not sure I see the necessity for keeping players as prospects longer. I do think we need to make changes as to how we treat them when they are, however.

But do go ahead and propose the rule, if you want to.

298

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 22:02

I vote yes.

299

Taxman
ID: 53382122
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 23:09

I vote yes. (but won't be around..see my following post)

300

Taxman
ID: 53382122
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 23:11

I just posted this in the 2010 Poli Football thread.

I am unwilling to go through another poli draft. I am confident that neither of the poli leagues will ever impose a reasonable time requirement for making picks. I kept thinking I would develop tolerance for those managers who year after year disappear for hours at a time. I was wrong.

For that reason, this is my final season in poli football and poli baseball. I still have many in the poli leagues whom I consider friends. I don't want to lose those relationships over my feelings for a select few whose mothers were unable to permanently convey "manners" or respect of others.

By giving notice now, you have a year to find a replacement for me in both poli leagues or to make the next pick, which ever seems more relevant.

301

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 23:24

I vote No on allowing Taxman to leave the league(s).

I vote Yes on the rule change.

302

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 05:26

I echo C1.

Yes on the rule change.

Stick around, Tax. I know these drafts can be frustrating, but the good news is we have plenty of time!

303

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 08:42

These poli-sports drafts always run smoothly when Baldwin acts as expediter, displaying a remarkable talent as a 'community organizer.'

But the guy has to sleep occasionally, so gaps occur if no one picks up the reins. Ususally someone does(Tree, bili), and I find these poli-drafts to be more palatable than the average 'slow' draft.

Still, slow drafts can be frustrating when they end up lasting two weeks, but I don't think it's a matter of manners or respect, it's just the nature of the beast.

304

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 09:41

let's get serious here. we're losing an owner because of these drafts - and i'm with Tax - poli drafts take too long.

why don't we switch to kafenatid - with a time limit - or a live draft? losing an owner because of the pace of a draft means it's time to change the way we've been doing it for a decade.

305

Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 09:42

I'm a big fan of Kafenatid. Remind me why we aren't using it this year.

306

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 10:08

We've been using Kafe alongside the slow on-site draft for some time, with fewer and fewer objections. I don't mind making the jump completely myself.

307

Myboyjack
ID: 447112610
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 11:02

Big yes to rule change

308

coldwater coyotes
ID: 42233218
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 11:04

No on rule change
No on Taxman

309

PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 11:08

I vote Yes

310

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 13:55

We've been using Kafe alongside the slow on-site draft for some time, with fewer and fewer objections. I don't mind making the jump completely myself.

that's it. i mean, i just don't want to draft in two places. it defeats the purpose.

another option is switching from Yahoo to My Fantasy League. the biggest negative is that Yahoo is freeish. MFL is 70 bucks if you order it in advance.

i've used MFL for one league for a few years now, and now RIFC is using it. i have to say it's a truly incredible piece of work, and it is accessible year round, which means no scrambling to find your rosters, the ability to more easily make off season trades, draft pick trades, and so on and so forth.

it takes a lot of the manual labor out of it..

311

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 14:44

Tree, what's your vote on the rule change?

Right now it looks like 7 YES and 1 NO.

312

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 15:01

its an administrative nightmare, and it cracks me up that people here complain about the extra work of one prospect being giving special status as has been discussed over the years, yet have no problem with the extra work involved here.

i'm still deciding on my vote. i kind of wish there was a provision that no matter how many ABs or IP someone received that year, they'd remain your prospect for at least the full season - that way, we avoid all the potential nightmares...

313

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 15:25

I vote for one NA spot on your roster. This will do the same thing plus solve other problems.

314

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 15:31

I vote for one NA spot on your roster. This will do the same thing plus solve other problems.

there is no such roster designation on yahoo. everyone on your roster not on the DL is eligible to be plugged into to play.

315

Boldwin
ID: 77502818
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 21:23

Kafenatid is no big shake...just a tiny boost. You either cell call expedite it or you endure gut-wrenching problems, especially for those who actually live and die following every move in the draft.

I vote no on strict limits and yes on cell calls.

If Tax doesn't find the quality of the competition worth the wait, enjoy your other leagues.

316

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 23:39

its an administrative nightmare...

How so?

317

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 00:00

Prospects lose their status as soon as they are called up by a manager. So if a manager called up a prospect and dropped him, he is fair game. So I have to periodically go in and remove from the prospect list any players a manager called up.

It would be *much* easier if we just had a prospect list and removed guys after they passed the threshold limits. Be easier to tell if a guy is fair game to pick up as well.

318

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 02:58

Kafenatid is no big shake...just a tiny boost.

a program that emails you automatically when you're up is a large boost.

I vote no on strict limits and yes on cell calls.

most drafts have limits. and in a draft that moves this slow, it's necessary.

Prospects lose their status as soon as they are called up by a manager. So if a manager called up a prospect and dropped him, he is fair game.

not according to what you just proposed - if passed, they can be called up and sent down at any time.

320

Great One
ID: 15751159
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 09:49

I hardly ever answer my phone, but always see emails.

321

Boldwin
ID: 77502818
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 10:30

I go months at a time not checking my e-mail.

322

Boldwin
ID: 77502818
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 10:33

And you can't hear your computer email notification when you are away from the computer. There is no comparison which works better. I've expedited these things using both methods together for years. I know.

323

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 10:36

And you can't hear your computer email notification when you are away from the computer.

welcome to 5 years ago.

when i get an email - at any of my accounts - my phone lets me know.

just because you don't check your email doesn't mean most of the rest of the online world is the same.

you're the outlier here.

324

nerveclinic
ID: 390561510
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 11:14

Ca someone please start a thread to vote on this and explain exactly what the rules change is?

You can call up a prospect and use him, and as long as he doesn't go over 300 by season end he is not one of your keepers?

Are you saying you can call him up for a few weeks, and then drop him in the free agent pool but no one can take him?

I read a lot of what's been said and it's a bit muddled. Don't we usually have a separate rules change thread?

I would vote yes for kafinated with a liberal time period.

325

biliruben
ID: 16105237
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 11:31

If he does not go over prospect limits, he can be retained as a prospect, if you so desire.

Yes, he can be sent down, and remain a protected prospect (by necessity sitting in the Yahoo FA pool, as he does now).

326

Boldwin
ID: 77502818
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 11:40

when i get an email - at any of my accounts - my phone lets me know.

Which does not make it superior to calling you on that same phone.

327

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 11:43

There's no reason to assume going to Kafe completely will remove the need for prodding phone calls. Certainly this isn't an either/or.

Are you saying you can call him up for a few weeks, and then drop him in the free agent pool but no one can take him?

Exactly. So long as the prospect remains under their threshold limits.

328

Boldwin
ID: 77502818
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 12:25

I am [no surprise] in favor of protecting our farm players till they reach their limits. As long as Strassberg doesn't get grandfathered out of that arrangement.

329

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 13:04

Which does not make it superior to calling you on that same phone.

actually it does.

let's say i pick 8th. as soon as the 7th person picks, i am notified, almost instantaneously.

a phone call requires another person to pick up the phone, and call me. it's not instant, and the person designated to call me may not be immediately available to make the phone call.

There's no reason to assume going to Kafe completely will remove the need for prodding phone calls. Certainly this isn't an either/or.

exactly.

I am [no surprise] in favor of protecting our farm players till they reach their limits. As long as Strassberg doesn't get grandfathered out of that arrangement.

unfortunately, any rule change is not going to apply to Strasburg. i don't believe our rules have ever been retroactive.

you called him up to your roster, and now it's your choice as to whether he's a regular keeper, or someone you're gonna throw back in the pool.

330

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 14:12

As tree says, prospect rule changes do not apply to players currently on prospect rosters, or called up prospect-eligible players.

331

Boldwin
ID: 87252916
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 17:25

Yeah, I recalled a nightmare where everyone's problem but mine got fixed. Just checking to see if the horror was real or imaginary.

332

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 17:26

Unlike your Obama nightmares, this one is real.

333

Tree
ID: 248472317
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 17:35

that got a fantastic legit LOL out of me.

334

Great One
ID: 15751159
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 19:58

yes, kafenatid eliminates the need for the middle man to help notify. takes that out of equation.

335

Great One
ID: 15751159
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 20:01

i sometimes go a week without looking at my cell phone... but i check a computer, whether at work or at home various times throughout the day. most people get emails on their phones AND computers... that makes it double the likelihood of a successful email notice vs. phone call notification. you need to have someone around to make the call, then you need to hope that person answers on the other end or is available. or checks their phone for a voice mail when you happen to call.

336

Boldwin
ID: 87252916
Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 20:11

Well I have notified people with both and on average cell calls work best. Some people are unusually glued to their computers and it may work for them.

Kafenatid's real benefit is the ease of leaving queues, and I have been voting for using it for several years now, but ...

337

Great One
ID: 2751238
Mon, Aug 30, 2010, 10:26

Thats because many people have jobs where they sit at a computer for several hours a day. And many aren't supposed to be answering their cell phones for personal calls. So do you want my work number to call that between 9-5 EST, but know to call my cell during the other hours? and now I am getting calls at work for a fantasy draft? how about just an email that pops up and i can indiscreetly check wherever I am.

338

Boldwin
ID: 117422921
Mon, Aug 30, 2010, 10:35

As I've sad, I've done it both ways and according to the wishes of the manager. Some never gave me a cell# but were responsive to email. Many have special procedures, voice mail, messages to be left with secretaries, etc. during work hours.

I can still assure you that when I left an email message I went and took a nap. When I made voice contact and told the forum so, we all stayed glued to the computer screen in anticipation.

339

nerveclinic
ID: 390561510
Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 12:57

As long as people keep up a que on kafe there's almost no need for phone calls or email. Stay on top of que and leave it on.

340

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sat, Sep 11, 2010, 23:36

Called up Jhoulys Chacin tonight.

He's at 124.1 IP going into tomorrow's start. I might as well get some use out of him this season.

341

Great One
ID: 548251511
Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 11:44

PD - 188:Given the way Zen left, Im afraid youll have a big battle on your hands to finish above me with that team, GO.
Next year--maybe. This year, no freaking way.

:)

342

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 12:12

Cc's got my spidey sense tingling. One speedster away...

343

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 12:53

My hitters lately have been sitting on the sideline. But I'm not quite done yet, GO!

344

Great One
ID: 548251511
Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 16:09

Oh you are done PD - I'm gonna keep you double digits behind me! :) Its the battle of who can finish higher in the middle. Dramatic. I'm still hoping to score a top 5 and think I can despite my pitching woes.

345

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, Sep 22, 2010, 21:07

CC: I wouldn't play Logan Morrison if I were you. He's Pancho's prospect.

346

Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 08:52

Yeah, Morrison has about 50 more ABs before he reaches the 250 threshold, and I'm hoping he doesn't reach it before the end of the year.

Given my issues at 1B(Morneau/Cantu, I considered calling him up, but already burned a prospect with Drew Storen.

347

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 18:52

Maybe the Commissioner can do something about Morrison.

348

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 19:38

I can't make any roster changes for today (dropping or putting him on the bench, so I emailed CC.

349

Great One
ID: 367493122
Sat, Sep 25, 2010, 11:01

FIVE wins yesterday. Thats gotta be a record.

350

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sat, Sep 25, 2010, 15:28

I saw that. Impressive.

351

biliruben
ID: 34435239
Sun, Sep 26, 2010, 10:50

Nice!

352

Great One
ID: 367493122
Sun, Sep 26, 2010, 11:42

Didn't really help, already good in that category. Ya know, if I didn't trade away all my saves cause my season was over a few months ago, I would have finished a few spots higher. I guess I did the right thing though, cause who cares if you are 3rd or 5th or whatever.

353

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Sep 26, 2010, 13:49

I wish I hadn't (as usual) blown throw all my IP so early. It's fine as it were (I should finish 1st or second in W's, and pretty much were I am in the other pitching categories). But a little better managing the last month should have been enough to squeeze our at least 2-3 more points out of my guys.

354

GO on G1
ID: 4867520
Sun, Sep 26, 2010, 14:34

Its like the reverse of my RIBC Southern where I was 40 points out of first about 6 weeks ago and am now 1 point from 1st place. I was also about 150 IP behind everybody so nobody really noticed I had all these easy points I front of me.

I gotta think it could be one of the biggest comebacks ever.

355

biliruben
ID: 34820210
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 10:12

I wish CC checked in here so I could tell him to back off.

He is making the season far too interesting for my taste at this late date.

356

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 22:03

Congratulations, biliruben. Nice run at the end, coldwater coyotes. Good season, everyone.

Is it too early to fire up the Hot Stove League? I have three third basemen that are young, well two that are young, one named Young. I'd like to move one of the three for a draft pick.

This may backfire, but keep an eye on the two that are in the playoffs if you're in the market for someone keeper-quality at the hot corner.

357

biliruben
ID: 34820210
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 23:07

Thanks, C1. Hoped to win by 20, but now feel happy to win by 2. Nice run CC, where ever you are. I was legitimately nervous.

358

nerveclinic
ID: 390561510
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 23:34

Congratulations Bili.

The difference between your finish ad CC's may be as simple as you using every slot up except catcher.

I find that close to impossible even though I check in every day and it seems to come from my fear of dropping players for someone on free agent list who I think is inferior.

Obviously this fear needs to be overcome.

359

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Sun, Oct 03, 2010, 23:48

Same for me, nerve. I'm way behind in positional GP. Even checking in most days I'm not filling those spots.

Congrats, bili. You took over first fairly early and just kept up the heat. Good job.

360

Great One
ID: 198353014
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 09:10

Congrats to bili and CC for making it interesting.

Not a good year for me in baseball, all 2nds and 3rd places - plus this league. This would have probably been another a few spots higher too if i didn't trade for the future and give away saves and depth etc. Still almost made the top 5 after I started to figure out some strategy stuff that would work in this league.

I said I would revamp my entire team that i inherited. I almost did. Only Howard and Hanley remain.

361

biliruben
ID: 34820210
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 09:38

Great season, all. I got lucky with health and depth, which makes it easy to run through those games pretty easily. Coasted a bit on hot-swapping pitchers for a busy month, when I got up by 20, and that almost cost me.

CC has a fantastic team and he played it really smart - other than trying to do it without trading, - and more importantly smack talk around these parts. ;)

362

C1-NRB
ID: 401412422
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:20

I, too, suffer from the inability to pull the trigger on the waiver wire.

But at the same time, even though I made the second fewest player moves of anyone I finished ahead of the guy the made the second most moves.

363

Tree, not at home
ID: 18342816
Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:45

great season Bili, and well deserved. i struggle with what *I* did wrong this season, but i guess ultimately the depth i had last season played a huge role in me winning.

i've got great keepers. but i had injuries, and i just don't think i drafted well this season.

you played a GREAT season. congrats again.

364

Great One
ID: 198353014
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 12:33

C1 - thats tricky to judge and can be misleading though cause my squad also traded away some major depth to plan for the future. So had I "stayed the course" as one of our greatest :) leaders once said... i would have scored a few spots higher.

Likely the 4 biggest waiver wire moves would have been 1-4.

365

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 23:21

Congrats to coach biliruben. The top 3 from last year finished 6,7,8. I never would have predicted that. And they were way ahead of the pack last year.

I need a pitching coach for next season. I had too many spectacularly bad pitching performances to make a run. 3 inning, 8 ER. Kind of like my last season in TSN. Thanks to all who offered trades, and actually made trades.

366

biliruben
ID: 34820210
Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 23:42

Thanks guys.

Having the spare bats to trade for Oswalt, Verlander/Scherzer actually allowed me to do the impossible - cure my pitching ratios. Something that I'd never been able to do before.

367

C1-NRB
ID: 2672611
Tue, Nov 23, 2010, 11:04

For the second year in a row I had an MVP on my team. Last year I traded Mauer mid-season but this year, depsite a variety of offers, I held on to Votto.

And I'm still keeping him, so don't ask. : )

Only 82 days until pitchers and catchers report.

368

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Tue, Nov 23, 2010, 14:57

Having spent the morning sledding down the hill on my street, I'm struggling to get into the baseball mood!

369

Tree, not at home
ID: 3910441615
Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 11:22

well, might as well get into the swing of our Hot Stove League..

Joe Mauer is on the block. i'd be willing to put other keeper-level players in a deal as well, whether as part of a Mauer deal, or seperately.

but i'm definitely looking to move Mauer.

370

Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 13:38

I miss sledding. One of the good things about winter. No matter where you go sledding, one of the hills is called suicide hill. Usually the most dangerous one.

371

Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522
Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 20:50

bili-- were you one of these guys?

372

biliruben
ID: 358252515
Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 01:41

Naw man. I didnt want any of that shit.

Rode my bike 21 miles through the snow Monday.

373

nerveclinic
ID: 01154411
Sat, Dec 04, 2010, 12:55

I think Adrian Gonzalez's value just shot up!

Forum: polPage 3419Subject: Political Gurupie 2010 Baseball Season Discussion

Forum: pol
Page 3419
Subject: Political Gurupie 2010 Baseball Season Discussion