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| Posted by: Perm Dude
- [5510572522] Tue, Apr 20, 2010, 12:36
The GOP has already come out against whoever it is that Obama will nominate to replace Stevens on the bench.
The White House response has been that the solid GOP opposition frees him to pick whoever he wants, without bothering to even talk with them.
Probably not the response they were hoping for... |
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| | | 2 | Boldwin
ID: 11301223 Wed, Apr 21, 2010, 04:17
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This piece is deliberately disingenious.
When most people talk about judicial activism, they mean judges reaching out to strike down laws.
Nope, it means writing supra-constitutional decisions or making laws from the bench. The only way I could imagine them arriving at the definition they give is that their idea of activism would be striking down roe v wade. Not that that makes sense but I can imagine a liberal making that mistake.
But according to Hatch and McConnell, judges are activist if they refuse to strike down federal laws that Republicans oppose.
No, it means going beyond the constitution. They would be activists if they refused to strike down an unconstitutional law.
On the right, conservative defenders of judicial activism who view the courts as the last stand against perceived federal tyranny... claim that courts can and should resist the president and Congress.
Duh, that's what a check and balance does. The entire purpose of checks and balances was to prevent tyranny. Such as if either of the other two branches should overstep the constitution. Are they actually trying to argue against check and balance?
Closing comment:Both of us believe that law matters to the justices, and we would be surprised to find that on that score, we’re too naïve.
They should have a reverence for law preventing them from striking down the unconstitutional? The law they should hold in reverence IS the constitution AND NO OTHER.
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| | | 3 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Wed, Apr 21, 2010, 09:21
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I guess the Right thinks if they use the word "Constitution" over and over again, they feel like they can pretend like they are the only ones who believe in adhering to it.
No, most of the issues of the day have nothing to do with the explicit text of the Constitution and more to do with settled law. Conservative judges are not respecting precedence an congressionally enacted law, which by definition, makes them activist. Unless you can point out in the Constitution where corporations receive first amendment rights?
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| | | 4 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Apr 21, 2010, 09:42
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"Unconstitutional" + "laws the Right doesn't like"
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| | | 5 | astade Sustainer
ID: 214361313 Sun, May 09, 2010, 23:00
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Obama appears to be in favor of Kagan.
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| | | 6 | biliruben
ID: 16105237 Sun, May 09, 2010, 23:41
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Yuck.
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| | | 7 | Jag
ID: 2143196 Sun, May 09, 2010, 23:45
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I would hate to see any Justice take away any more state rights. It is just a way to force the failed socialist system on the nation. If the Left is so sure about their agenda, then take it to states with the same mind set.
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| | | 8 | sarge33rd
ID: 280311620 Mon, May 10, 2010, 07:10
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You rightwingers LOVE to throw around the word "socialist", when it doesnt apply. Not in the sense of establishing a socialist government.
As for your oft repeated contention that socialist governments have universally failed throughout human history, that is not true. The governments of Germany, England, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway et al; have not failed. Yet each contains varying degrees of socialist traits while also retaining varying degrees of individual freedom/rights and free enterprise.
No small part of the problem with debating with you; is your continued insistence on misapplying terms, and defining them to fit your own agenda driven labeling.
A little socialism, is probably a good thing. Soc Sec for ex, medicare; taking care of our nations elderly, can not be seen as anything BUT the right thing to do. In years gone by, families had 10 kids for two reasons. (1) infant mortality and (2) to take care of mom and dad when they got old. Our society has changed, and we no longer routinely have households of a dz. A little socialism, a little compassion for your fellow Americans; is not something to be scoffed at. It's something to be pursued and admired.
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| | | 9 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:01
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Usually, when someone is talking about the USA going socialist, they mean the USA is moving closer to socialism and away from capitalism. No country is purely socialist and no country is purely capitalist The new health care bill is moving the USA more towards socialism......it does not make the USA totally socialist. I don't think anyone is trying to make the claim that the USA is now completely socialist. It's easier to write that the country is socialist than....the country is moving more towards the socialist end of the spectrum. You are wasting a lot of time on wordsmithing, which happens alot around here.
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| | | 10 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:03
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You are wasting a lot of time on wordsmithing, which happens alot around here.
Yup!
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| | | 11 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:09
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A little socialism, is probably a good thing. Soc Sec for ex, medicare; taking care of our nations elderly, can not be seen as anything BUT the right thing to do.
Get back to me when it goes broke and we'll add up what you've paid into it over your lifetime just for kicks.
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| | | 12 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:11
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I'm very concerned. For one thing she has no judicial record. For anothet, I'm not going to be able to see her without expecting Arnold Schwartzneger to emerge from her head.
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| | | 13 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:15
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As you well know, until recently, most SCOTUS justices did not come from the lower courts.
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| | | 14 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:20
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Get back to me when it goes broke
Says the guy who supports spending billions keeping 90 year olds alive an extra week.
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| | | 15 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:22
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As you well know, until recently, most SCOTUS justices did not come from the lower courts.
Really? When was the last time that "most SCOTUS justices" had no juducial experiance? I'm curious about your definition of recently.
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| | | 16 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:28
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Lewis Powell and Wm Rehnquist, I believe, were the last (read this last night--no link, sorry).
Hahaha on the Arnold reference. Now I can't get that image out of my head.
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| | | 17 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Mon, May 10, 2010, 09:46
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Get back to me when it goes broke and we'll add up what you've paid into it over your lifetime just for kicks.
get back to me when you're actually correct about something.
you're correct less often than Bill Bergen got a hit...
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| | | 18 | Mith
ID: 482583111 Mon, May 10, 2010, 10:00
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I think she looks like Patton Oswalt.
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| | | 19 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, May 10, 2010, 10:16
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While at Harvard to tried to ban the military from campus over "don't ask, don't tell". Her poilicy was effectively ended by SCOTUS ruling. She thereafter encouraged students to demonstrate against military recruiters on campus.
Is she married? If not, someone's going to be claiming pretty soon that she's a lesbian. (if they haven't already)
On another tac: Her appointment would mean that there were no Protestants on the Court. Odd statistical turn.
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| | | 20 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Mon, May 10, 2010, 10:19
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I see where you're going with Patton Oswalt, MITH, but this is what I'm seeing.
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| | | 21 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Mon, May 10, 2010, 10:32
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| | | 22 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157 Mon, May 10, 2010, 11:09
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wasting a lot of time on wordsmithing
I feel the exact opposite. Definitions have been so corrupted as to have virtually no meaning in many cases. If we thinks it's important to effectively communicate, then it's important that we define the meaning of words.
For example, while perusing the web for info on Elena Kagan this morning, I happened upon this site.
It is also unclear that a Justice Kagan would be an adequately independent check on executive excesses. She has argued in favor of greatly enhanced presidential control over the bureaucracy, which is concerning in light of President Obama’s unprecedented centralization of power in the White House.
The use of unprecedented shows either a complete lack of knowledge of American Presidential history, or, more likely, simply a recklessly applied definition of a word designed to heighten emotion.
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| | | 23 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Mon, May 10, 2010, 12:46
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One could argue that nationalizing the student loan program, giant car companies, FANNIE and FREDDIE ,and giant insurance companies is unprecedented. If it was done before, it was not on this scale.
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| | | 24 | Seattle Zen in Forks
ID: 264351014 Mon, May 10, 2010, 15:38
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I would prefer that Justice Brennan's head emerged from hers, to be honest.
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| | | 25 | Jag
ID: 334141014 Mon, May 10, 2010, 15:45
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You can't compare the small monolithic countries of Scandinavia to America. With less capitalism our economy will closer reflect that of India, China and the old Soviet Union. I fear we will never have the prosperity, that America had the majority of my life. The American dream has been replaced with hate the rich.
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| | | 26 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, May 10, 2010, 16:07
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It is good to see the ivy league rule is still in effect.
Is she married? If not, someone's going to be claiming pretty soon that she's a lesbian.
nope
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| | | 27 | Khahan
ID: 373143013 Mon, May 10, 2010, 16:47
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Have there been any other supreme court justices with no actual judicial experience?
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| | | 28 | DWetzel at work
ID: 49962710 Mon, May 10, 2010, 16:55
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Khakan, do you mean with no experience serving as a judge?
If so, it used to be quite common. Thurgood Marshall and Earl Warren are two semi-recent examples.
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| | | 29 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Mon, May 10, 2010, 17:11
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As I noted above, neither Lewis Powell nor William Rehnquist (both nominated by Nixon) had judicial experience before joining SCOTUS.
I wouldn't say common but it is not unheard of.
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| | | 31 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138 Mon, May 10, 2010, 18:40
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When I first saw a picture of her she reminded me of a wrestler back in the 60's, 70's era. Waiting for Chilly Billy Cardill to interview her after her match on Studio wrestling. Didnt Samartino wrestle her.
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| | | 32 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138 Mon, May 10, 2010, 19:11
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After finally getting to see her on TV tonight I have come to the conclusion that she is Rachel Maddows mom.
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| | | 33 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Mon, May 10, 2010, 19:15
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I fear we will never have the prosperity, that America had the majority of my life. The American dream has been replaced with hate the rich.
whatever. the United States is still one of the most prosperous nations in the world.
go ask some kid in Afghanistan or India or Burkina Fasos about prosperity.
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| | | 34 | Pancho Villa
ID: 29118157 Mon, May 10, 2010, 21:28
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One could argue that nationalizing the student loan program, giant car companies, FANNIE and FREDDIE ,and giant insurance companies is unprecedented. If it was done before, it was not on this scale.
Discounting that no giant car company or giant insurance company has been nationalized(another word used out of context of its definition), I suggest you begin with Abraham Lincoln as the president who most closely fits the unprecedented centralization of power in the White House tag.
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| | | 35 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Tue, May 11, 2010, 00:13
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Kagan's Thesis at Princeton.Titled "To the Final Conflict: Socialism in New York City, 1900-1933," Kagan opined that infighting caused the decline of the early socialist movement. She asked why the "greatness" of socialism was not reemerging as a major political force.
"In our own times, a coherent socialist movement is nowhere to be found in the United States. Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism's glories than of socialism's greatness," wrote Kagan, Obama's solicitor general.
"Why, in a society by no means perfect, has a radical party never attained the status of a major political force? Why, in particular, did the socialist movement never become an alternative to the nation's established parties?" she asked.
In the senior thesis, Kagan, who graduated from Princeton in 1981, addressed infighting in the socialist movement.
"Through its own internal feuding, then, the SP [Socialist Party] exhausted itself forever and further reduced labor radicalism in New York to the position of marginality and insignificance from which it has never recovered.
"The story is a sad but also a chastening one for those who, more than half a century after socialism's decline, still wish to change America," she wrote. "Radicals have often succumbed to the devastating bane of sectarianism; it is easier, after all, to fight one's fellows than it is to battle an entrenched and powerful foe. Yet if the history of Local New York shows anything, it is that American radicals cannot afford to become their own worst enemies. In unity lies their only hope."
Her thesis was dedicated to her brother "whose involvement in radical causes led me to explore the history of American radicalism in the hope of clarifying my own political ideas." Always a radical marxist in every appointment. Always sneering when he get's called a marxist.
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| | | 36 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, May 11, 2010, 00:15
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How sad is that, that you have to go back to a college paper to "prove" your "everyone's a marxist!" paranoia.
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| | | 37 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 01:16
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how pathetic that someone will regurgitate a handful of talking points and once again not think for themselves.
although i doubt Baldwin would actually read the full 130-page thesis, there's more than enough (in his own post even) that Kagan was not a Socialist.
and it's not as if here thesis is some OH MY GOD LOOK WHAT WE DISCOVERED bombshell. it's just that it's simply not important, and that's why Republicans didn't even bring it up during her confirmation hearings for Solicitor General.
if you'd like to actually LEARN something, this link will help you.
(History professor and Kagan's faculty advisor Sean) Wilentz defended Kagan against her critics, noting that she was adept at removing her personal beliefs from her academic research on labor and radical history. "Sympathy for the movement of people who were trying to better their lives isn't something to look down on," he explained. "Studying something doesn't necessarily mean that you endorse it. It means you're into it. That's what historians do."
Kagan said in her thesis acknowledgements that her brother's "involvement in radical causes led me to explore the history of American radicalism in the hope of clarifying my own political ideas."
Yet even if a deeper understanding of the Socialist movement helped Kagan understand her own beliefs, she did not follow her brother's path.
"Elena Kagan is about the furthest thing from a socialist. Period. And always had been. Period," Wilentz explained.
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| | | 38 | Myboyjack
ID: 447112610 Tue, May 11, 2010, 08:32
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She free-lanced for Golman-Sachs
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| | | 39 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 08:55
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she's a jew-lover. great. just what we need.
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| | | 40 | bibA
ID: 0426119 Tue, May 11, 2010, 10:31
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She was writing about the Socialist movement. When you write about a subject, does that make you an automatic adherent?
Does wanting to explore the history of American radicalism in the hope of clarifying my own political ideas mean that she was embracing radicalism? Or possibly might it mean that she was open minded enough to want to learn as much as possible before forming her own opinions about various subjects?
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| | | 41 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Tue, May 11, 2010, 11:17
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Twice she unecessarily brought up the "greatness of Socialism". This is not someone who just has a curiosity about it. I have a curiosity and I have never once considered putting the words great besides socialism unless it was to describe the great failure.
And those complaining about the fact that these views weren't uttered yesterday, didn't care when another Obama advisor recently described Mao as her favorite philosopher so timeliness is not a valid issue for them obviously.
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| | | 42 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 11:43
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Twice she unecessarily brought up the "greatness of Socialism".
i haven't read the thesis. based on your comment, i guess you have.
you missed context when you read it.
in the one passage i've been able to find online where Kagan discussed the "greatness" of Socialism, she said:
"Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism’s glories than of socialism’s greatness..."
context is important. so is reading comprehension.
she's not proclaiming Socialism to be a wonderful thing. not in the least bit.
if someone were to say "Americans are more likely to speak of of the glories of Dunkin Donuts instead of Tim Horton's greatness," it doesn't imply that Tim Horton's is wonderful, but rather, the American preference is toward the former, not the latter.
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| | | 43 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Tue, May 11, 2010, 11:55
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Yes, how sad it is that that socialism never took off. According to her.
What is sad are the victims of marxism and the inefficiency of socialism that squanders the wealth of the nation doing no net good on the whole.
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| | | 44 | Razor
ID: 222262113 Tue, May 11, 2010, 11:59
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It would be nice if one thread was not all about an imagined socialist/marxist takeover.
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| | | 45 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 13:02
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Yes, how sad it is that that socialism never took off. According to her.
she didn't say which she preferred. she said which the American people preferred.
and you're the one who just said it was sad "socialism never took off". not her.
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| | | 46 | biliruben
ID: 358252515 Tue, May 11, 2010, 13:36
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Jeebus, baldy old man.
There are a number of things to actually not like about kagan without digging up dubious conjecture about college theses.
It's like someone slipped you acid in the sixties and read Marx to you four eight hours while burning you with cigarettes.
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| | | 47 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 13:42
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shhhh...don't give him ideas.
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| | | 48 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Tue, May 11, 2010, 14:32
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We're at the very least at the tipping point where the country turns irrevocably socialist, and I believe at great risk of being driven to far more radical extremes, and if I wasn't pointing this out someone else would rise up to state the obvious.
This revolution is an elephant in the room. And you suggest we talk about what?
I'll even agree there is something more important to talk about, namely what comes after the 'new world order'. But you collectively don't want to go there either, literally [and sadly].
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| | | 49 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, May 11, 2010, 14:40
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Why don't you wait and see if indeed, there are others who would rise up and say that we're at the point of turning "irrevocably socialist"?
Of course, this depends upon your definition of "socialist" which seems to be more of a talking point to you than a hard and fast definition. For if you are talking about things like progressive taxation being "socialist" then we're already at the point of being irrevocably socialist.
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| | | 50 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, May 11, 2010, 15:27
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This revolution is an elephant in the room. And you suggest we talk about what?
if it truly existed, it would be discussed. but yet again, it's another figment of your imagination.
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| | | 51 | biliruben
ID: 358252515 Tue, May 11, 2010, 16:38
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That's fine. You have been screaming about the big bad Marxist wolf for a long long long long time, however, but only point to the schnauzer tracks in the shifting sand as evidence.
After a while people stop listening. Just sayin.
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| | | 52 | biliruben
ID: 16105237 Wed, May 12, 2010, 09:46
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And feel free to talk about the New World Order. I don't think anyone has said you can't.
We may mock you a bit, because the conspiracy theories are sometimes, um.., amusuing, but I actually sometimes like the mind-stretching. Reminds me of college. ;)
But could you do us a favor and not inject every thread with it? Start a thread called "MARXISM OMG!?!!" or "UN EATS BABIES!" or something, and if we don't feel like reading your most recent theory about why we will, any minute now!, be dancing with Trotsky, we won't have to.
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| | | 53 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Wed, May 12, 2010, 12:45
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The easier cure is to just stop electing marxists.
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| | | 54 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, May 12, 2010, 13:00
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53, on the heels of 51 and 52 is so unintentionally funny, it boggles the mind.
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| | | 55 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Wed, May 12, 2010, 14:46
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Colbert builds the bloodlust.
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| | | 56 | sarge33rd
ID: 280311620 Wed, May 12, 2010, 15:21
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The easier cure is to just stop electing marxists.
Well, that was easy. Seeing how we never have elected a Marxist. Guess you should be happy and satisfied now.
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| | | 57 | J-Bar
ID: 554411221 Wed, May 12, 2010, 23:21
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another example of how the republicans policed itself on a bad nomination and the democrats are in lock step. At least there was one party capable of having thought outside of the party.
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| | | 58 | astade Sustainer
ID: 214361313 Wed, May 12, 2010, 23:37
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J-bar, please explain.
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| | | 59 | J-Bar
ID: 554411221 Wed, May 12, 2010, 23:44
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Harriet Myers was Bush's inexperienced crony nominated and not even voted on due in part to the republicans being dissatisfied with her qualifications.
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| | | 60 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, May 13, 2010, 00:26
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are you implying that Kagan isn't qualified.
please explain why you feel that way.
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| | | 62 | Mith
ID: 482583111 Thu, May 13, 2010, 06:54
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Simple repeated boilerplate talking points.
J-Bar if you're under the impression that Miers was so roundly rejected solely because of her lack of judicial experience, you are mistaken.
If you're interested in facts I suggest you dig a little deeper than what Hannity tells you to say when comparing the resumes of Miers and Kagan.
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| | | 63 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Thu, May 13, 2010, 12:21
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J-Bar if you're under the impression that Miers was so roundly rejected solely because of her lack of judicial experience, you are mistaken. - MITH
That is certainly the way I remember it.
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| | | 64 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 12:29
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Your memory is terrible.
Lack of judicial experience was, at best, a single factor among numerous reasons to question her qualifications for SCOTUS, and often not mentioned at all.
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| | | 65 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 13:09
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Checking through the SCOTUS Nominees 2005 - 2008 thread...
Toral initially found Miers qualified.
Pat Buchanon column was linked in which he wrote:But her qualifications for the Supreme Court are non-existent. She is not a brilliant jurist, indeed, has never been a judge. She is not a scholar of the law. Researchers are hard-pressed to dig up an opinion. She has not had a brilliant career in politics, the academy, the corporate world or public forum. Were she not a friend of Bush, and female, she would never have even been considered. ...but his bigger problem was with her lack of conservative credentials.
David Frum column was linked in which his main issues was also lack of consevative cred.
Mark L found her qualified for SCOTUS.
Noonan column was linked in which she supported Miers.
Bruce Fein column was linked in which he wrote:On constitutional matters, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein, there is no there there. She has neither said nor written anything edifying about constitutional law or politics during more than three decades as a lawyer. Her nomination evokes Sen. Roman Hruska's ill-conceived defense of G. Harrold Carswell: "Even if he is mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance?"
Miss Miers has taken to an extreme Saint Paul's advice to be all things to all people. Her political loyalties have fluctuated between Democrat presidential aspirants Michael Dukakis and Al Gore to Republican hopeful Phil Gramm and President George W. Bush. Former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie conceded Miss Miers was a Democrat throughout the 1980s. Her unelaborated conversion to Republican ranks smacks more of expediency than conviction.
Miss Miers' Supreme Court credentials are suboptimal, not to make too fine a point: graduation from Southern Methodist University with a major in mathematics contemporaneously with Laura Bush; personal attorney to Mr. Bush; general counsel to Gov.-elect Bush's transition team in 1994; assistant to the president and staff secretary in 2001; deputy chief of staff in 2003; and White House counsel in 2005. Her acclaim by Sen. Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, who has sneered at Justice Clarence Thomas' competence, adds cause for skepticism.
The nominee has been conspicuously silent on every controversial constitutional matter in her generation, including Watergate, the legislative veto, Roe v. Wade, presidential war powers, Iran-Contra, prayer in school; the impeachment of President Clinton; the line-item veto; the death penalty; and campaign finance restrictions. If confirmed, Miss Miers can be expected to exceed the obscurity of Garbriel Duvall, who contributed but two words to constitutional law ("I dissent" in Dartmouth College v. Woodward (1819)), during 23 years of Supreme Court service.
Miss Miers' defenders insist she is likely to vote with Justices Scalia and Thomas in decisive cases. But the law pivots not on results but on reasoning, which guides subordinate tribunals, legislatures and executive officials. The power of the court is in explanations, not in ipse dixits. The idea Miss Miers would be intellectually equipped to write for the ages is preposterous, like believing an amateur writer would surpass Shakespeare if awarded a Nobel Prize. In all his criticism, Fein didn't mention the fact that she'd never sat on a bench.
The following excerpts from notes Miers sent to GWB in her various appointments under him underscored her status as an unqualified crony:- "You are the best governor ever - deserving of great respect," "for taking the time to visit in the office and on the plane back - cool!" "Hopefully Jenna and Barbara recognize that their parents are 'cool' - as do the rest of us." It was these comments that led Toral to criticize Bush for what he felt was an severely blatant act of cronyism, and Madman to criticize Miers in her capacity as advisor to Bush for accepting the nomination.
I didn't see a single right-leaning posters or linked pundits in that thread who found her lack of judicial experience to be singularly disqualifying.
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| | | 66 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, May 13, 2010, 13:15
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That is certainly the way I remember it.
i wonder if you also remember that much of the criticism of Miers came from her own party, and from many conservatives. Buchanan, Krauthammer, Kristol, Limbaugh, and Will all were critical, as were the following:
Sam Brownback - A powerful conservative on the Senate Judiciary Committee says if Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers considers Roe v. Wade "settled law" there is a "good chance" that he will vote against her.
Robert Bork - MSNBC-TV's Tucker Carlson talks to former judge and Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork about the Harriet Miers' nomination. He says it's, "a disaster on every level" because she has "no experience with constitutional law whatever". The nomination is a "slap in the face" to conservatives.
David Frum - The Miers nomination, though, is an unforced error. Unlike the Roberts's nomination, which confirmed the previous balance on the Court, the O'Connor resignation offered an opportunity to change the balance. This is the moment for which the conservative legal movement has been waiting for two decades...
oh yea, and Ann Coulter too - However nice, helpful, prompt and tidy she is, Harriet Miers isn't qualified to play a Supreme Court justice on "The West Wing," let alone to be a real one.
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| | | 68 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 13:34
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He remembers the criticism from the right, Tree. His mistake was believing that it was all based primarily in her lack of judicial experience.
Of course the examples you cited are further proof of his poor memory.
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| | | 69 | Myboyjack
ID: 447112610 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:07
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She was denounced by all sides as a legal light-weight. Her lack of judicial experience certainly sighed in on that judgment , though it was by no means the only evidence of her lack of gravity.
Kayan could hardly be called a legal lightwirght.
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| | | 70 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:13
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Hopefully that settles that.
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| | | 71 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:19
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There were two problems with Miers:
- She was an idiot - She was not conservative enough for the GOP base
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| | | 72 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:22
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Well the blatant cronyism was also an issue.
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| | | 73 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:24
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It was, though I bet if Samuel Alito had been White House counsel and Bush had nominated him, he would have been confirmed. The cronyism was an issue with Bush moreso than Miers herself, who would not have survived a Senate confirmation hearing.
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| | | 74 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 14:34
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At the time Madman raised the issue that she failed in her capacity as WH Counsel by simply accepting the nomination, because the cronyism was so obvious and undenyable. FTR she didn't just serve him in the WH. Wiki:Miers met George W. Bush in January 1989 at an annual Austin dinner affair for legislators and other important people. Nathan Hecht, a mutual friend and Miers's date, made the introduction. Miers subsequently worked as general counsel for Bush's transition team in 1994, when he was first elected Governor of Texas.
In 1995, George W. Bush, then Texas governor, appointed Miers to chair the Texas Lottery Commission.
Miers resigned from the lottery commission in early 2000, a year before her term ended. She said her resignation had nothing to do with lagging sales in the system's biggest game, Lotto Texas, but rather that she wanted to allow her successor time to prepare for rebidding the lottery's primary operator contract.
There was some speculation during Bush's 2000 campaign that Bush would appoint Miers to the position of Attorney General. This was seen as possible with her trusted role as Bush's personal attorney and her many appointments during his tenure as governor. This also recalled William French Smith who was Ronald Reagan's personal attorney before being named Attorney General. Miers was not chosen and John Ashcroft became Attorney General instead.
In January 2001, Miers did follow Bush to Washington, D.C., serving as Assistant to the President and Staff Secretary during the first two years of his presidency. In that role, she opposed the administration's 2001 decision to stop cooperating with the ABA rating of judicial nominees. In 2003, she was appointed Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy. In November 2004, Bush named her to succeed Alberto Gonzales, his nominee for Attorney General, to the post of White House Counsel, the chief legal adviser for the Office of the President.
Miers is said to be one of Bush's closest personal friends and appears given to effusive praise for the President. According to former Bush speechwriter David Frum, Miers has called Bush the most brilliant man she had ever met[20] and says he was the "best Governor ever."[21] She also stated that "serving President Bush and Mrs. Bush is an impossible-to-describe privilege" and noted that Bush's personal qualities "make a brighter future for our nation and people all around the world possible."[22]
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| | | 75 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, May 13, 2010, 15:35
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Miers was another example of George Bush rewarding loyalty over competency. Her nomination was one of the first instances of the rest of the GOP rejecting him. I believe it caught him completely by surprise.
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| | | 76 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, May 13, 2010, 16:19
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I think if blatant cronyism was an issue then it would be safe to say Kagan would not be confirmed.
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| | | 77 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Thu, May 13, 2010, 16:32
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What makes her a crony?
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| | | 78 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, May 13, 2010, 17:51
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i realize this is just fodder for Baldwin to get off track and ignore how wrong he was in post 63, but what the heck...
Republican Brown calls Kagan pro-military
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| | | 79 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Thu, May 13, 2010, 18:02
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One thing is for sure. If you are hispanic or gay, between the two Obama picks, you will have one vote in the bag before the case is ever heard.
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| | | 80 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Thu, May 13, 2010, 18:20
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How about being a man? Woman? Black? Catholic? Jewish? Old? Ivy League grad?
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| | | 81 | Boldwin
ID: 8423823 Thu, May 13, 2010, 18:42
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They have demonstrated extreme bias in the areas I mentioned. That is why I am not claiming they are biased in other areas until demonstrated.
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| | | 82 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Thu, May 13, 2010, 19:39
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Where can this proof of extreme bias be found?
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| | | 83 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, May 13, 2010, 19:44
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As opposed to regular bias. Can the Far Right differentiate between the two?
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| | | 84 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Thu, May 13, 2010, 20:13
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Razor - I would assume Sotomayor's "wise latina" statement and Kagan's unlawful barring of military recruiters from Harvard's campus over military policy on gays would be evidence in this regard.
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| | | 85 | Mith
ID: 482583111 Thu, May 13, 2010, 20:37
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MBJ
If Sotomayor's 'wise latina' comment was an example of bias, it was very narrow and I have trouble believing you really think it is anything close to an extreme case. Are you sure you haven't bought into the disingenuously out-of-context presentation of that quote by the rightist media?
Further, Kagan did not bar recruiters from Harvard's campus! She prevented the military from using the school’s Office of Career, a policy that was already in place prior to her tenure.
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| | | 86 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Thu, May 13, 2010, 20:43
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MITH - I wasn't stating an opinion on whether it was extreme bias. I was answering Razor's question.
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| | | 87 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Thu, May 13, 2010, 20:51
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Yeah, but if it isn't true it doesn't exactly count as a valid demonstration. :)
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| | | 90 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Fri, May 14, 2010, 17:21
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Justice questions way court nominees are grilled
Justice Anthony Kennedy decried the way some senators question Supreme Court nominees, defended President Barack Obama's pursuit of empathetic judges and rebutted the idea of activist courts in a speech Friday in south Florida...
..."An activist court is a court that makes a decision you don't like," he said.
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| | | 91 | Myboyjack
ID: 447112610 Fri, May 14, 2010, 17:26
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Lol. It's a little late to get worried about the Senate grilling nominees.
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| | | 92 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:28
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Kagan clears committee, to be sent to the Senate.
Lindsey Graham votes for nomination. In a classy statement: "What's in Elena Kagan's heart is that of a good person who adopts a philosophy I disagree with," Graham said. "She will serve this nation honorably, and it would not have been someone I would have chosen, but the person who did choose, President Obama, I think chose wisely."
As a result, look for a primary challenge for Graham, a guy with solid conservative cred. It is the price one pays, as a conservative, for not toeing the "I hate liberals always" meme that holds sway over the GOP.
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| | | 93 | The Left Behind
ID: 66232012 Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 15:34
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I really don't see the problem with nominating a person to the Supreme Court who has no judicial experience. After all, Barack Obama is President and he has no executive experience and look how that is turning out.
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| | | 94 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 16:38
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John Marshall, William Rehnquist, Louis Brandeis, Earl Warren, William O. Douglas, Harlan Fiske Stone, Robert Jackson, Felix Frankfurter, Joseph Story and Roger Taney would all like a word with you.
so would the other 31 Supreme Court justices who had no prior judicial experiences. But those 9 were listed by name because they're among the most influential justices we've ever had.
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| | | 95 | The Left Behind
ID: 66232012 Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 13:11
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Do you like all of those justices? Do you believe all of them were good?
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| | | 96 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 15:24
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Do you like all of those justices? Do you believe all of them were good?
i don't have an opinion of a majority of people who served before my time, other than what the history books say, and the history books say they were among the best Justices this nation has ever had.
feel free to come up with another unrelated point though, you're 2-for-2 so far.
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| | | 97 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 18:06
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Roger Taney one of the best ever?
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| | | 98 | Seattle Zen
ID: 1410391215 Wed, Jul 21, 2010, 19:45
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Taney sucked.
An embarrassment to the Maryland Bar.
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| | | 99 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 00:04
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i read your link, SZ. the one that says Justice Benjamin Robbins Curtis, author of the dissent on Dred Scott, held his former colleague in high esteem despite their differences in that case. Writing in his own memoirs, Curtis described Taney:
He was indeed a great magistrate, and a man of singular purity of life and character. That there should have been one mistake in a judicial career so long, so exalted, and so useful is only proof of the imperfection of our nature. The reputation of Chief Justice Taney can afford to have anything known that he ever did and still leave a great fund of honor and praise to illustrate his name. If he had never done anything else that was high, heroic, and important, his noble vindication of the writ of habeas corpus, and of the dignity and authority of his office, against a rash minister of state, who, in the pride of a fancied executive power, came near to the commission of a great crime, will command the admiration and gratitude of every lover of constitutional liberty, so long as our institutions shall endure.
Modern legal scholars have tended to concur with Justice Curtis that, notwithstanding the Dred Scott decision and the furor surrounding it, which will forever be attached to his name, Taney was both an outstanding jurist and a competent judicial administrator.
he made some awful decisions. it doesn't make him an awful judge.
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| | | 100 | Boldwin
ID: 40648227 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 09:28
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The Left Behind
For a guy with no prior Poliboard posting experience, you are really growing on me. 8]
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| | | 103 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 11:27
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Seems a little over the top to attack a newbie, yes?
honestly, no more than fawning over someone who hasn't posted anything of real substance yet.
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| | | 104 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:14
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"Seems a little over the top to attack a newbie, yes?"
Point me to the evidence which contradicts my statement, and I'll happily apologize. Until then, a spade's a spade.
In this thread, his first post was a random thinly disguised Obama slam with no substance to it.
In the Deepwater Horizon thread, his first post was a thinly disguised Obama slam (or, more accurately, a "why isn't everyone slamming Obama... not that I would ever do such a thing" two step with no substance to it.
So, based on those pieces of evidence, it seems completely justified by the facts. Tell me where I'm wrong.
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| | | 106 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:26
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Thanks for elevating the discussion. So that'd be what, two months for what you just posted?
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| | | 107 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:40
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DW, you attacked someone who is new to the boards and hasn't even said the things you insist on attacking him for.
I'm deleting the posts in question. In the future, you can attack positions but not people. Keep that in mind.
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| | | 108 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:42
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#103: Yes, it is. Personal attacks are specifically out-of-bounds. Needless fawning by someone looking for a friend is not.
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| | | 109 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:48
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PD-- thanks for leaving post 105 up since it's not OK to attack people. Maybe you could do something about that? Or is it only OK to personally attack me?
As for attacking the position--I don't even know what the position IS, for cryin' out loud. There WAS no position except "let's make a random Obama slam out of nowhere that has basically nothing to do with the discussion". That was kind of the whole point. And he was doing precisely the things that I was "accusing" him of -- throwing out random slanders/accusations without providing any evidence to support them. This is not a personal attack, no matter how much you might wish to twist it as such.
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| | | 110 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:51
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For that matter, your very own post takes a cheap shot at Boldwin--perhaps you should delete it yourself.
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| | | 111 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:57
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#109: You certainly aren't permitted to attack the person in lieu of knowing what the position is. You want to try to tease it out you can do so. but attacking the poster simply isn't permitted.
#110: I'm happy to edit that post should Baldwin ask. I don't think he really cares one way or the other.
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| | | 112 | The Left Behind
ID: 66232012 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:57
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Have the normal people here ever tried just not responding to some of the people around here? Is it possible to just not allow them to post? On the Yahoo forums you can set people to "ignore".
Back on topic, you wouldn't hire a brain surgeon with no medical experience or an accountant who never did math right? So why nominate someone to the Supreme Court (the HOF of living judges to allow a sports comparison) whose never judged? Can I get voted into the Baseball HoF? How about first base for the Phillies? I never played but so what.
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| | | 113 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 12:58
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As has been pointed out, there have been a number of cases of people on the court who have not been judges themselves--many of them have served illustriously. I don't think lack of judicial experience has been demonstrated to be a detriment to actual SCOTUS careers.
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| | | 114 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:03
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112: Past evidence suggests you're wrong. Consider why this is the case, and then reflect on why this is a really bad comparison for you to make.
Or, alternatively, Did you realize that, before they were Supreme Court justices, not a single Supreme Court justice ever actually served on the Supreme Court? How can we expect these people to serve competently on the Supreme Court of the United States when they have never served on the Supreme Court of the United States before? It's inconceivable!
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| | | 116 | The Left Behind
ID: 66232012 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:12
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I don't care what line of work it is Perm Dude, if I can choose between somebody with experience and a noob I'm choosing the guy with experience.
The argument about well those guys got nominated and they didn't have experience. Well it was dumb to nominate those people too. Its like work. You work hard, produce results, have the educational pedigree, and who gets the promotion to CEO, some slackjaw from Customer Service. What company in their right mind would do that? Why would our government?
I get it if Obama wants a lefty on the bench. That's the game they all play, but don't you people have anybody sitting on a bench somewhere that's better than this lady?
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| | | 117 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:13
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Also, since you've responded two more times since in this thread, including where I pointed out that 105 was inappropriate, and seem to be ignoring the email I sent in about it as well, I take it that you aren't going to do anything about it and that starting a post with "you're pathetic" is okay as long as certain people say it?
I'm trying to figure out why that is. If it's because it takes more than eight minutes to delete a post, then I apologize. If not, I'd love an explanation.
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| | | 118 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:17
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116 is a laughably bad comparison. "The slackjaw from Customer Service"? Really?
So the dean of Harvard Law School is a "slackjaw" in the field of law? I want to make sure I have your argument right. I mean, it's not exactly like she's an associate french fry dispenser at the University of Phoenix here, which is what you're trying to make it sound like.
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| | | 124 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:43
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I don't believe anyone can look at Kagan and think she hasn't worked in the field. She's got a legal mind, is smart, and has the understanding necessary to do a good job.
No, this isn't like taking a CR and making her a CEO.
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| | | 125 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:46
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Why did my post # 120 get deleted? How did that violate the rules?
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| | | 126 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 13:47
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dunno. Wasn't me--I didn't see it.
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| | | 128 | Guru
ID: 330592710 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 14:22
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125 - that post was off topic, individually targeted, inflammatory, seen by the target already, and no useful purpose was served by leaving it out there. Move on.
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| | | 129 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 16:17
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post 112 Back on topic, you wouldn't hire a brain surgeon with no medical experience or an accountant who never did math right? So why nominate someone to the Supreme Court (the HOF of living judges to allow a sports comparison) whose never judged? Can I get voted into the Baseball HoF? How about first base for the Phillies? I never played but so what.
this was addressed in my post 94. to which, you seem to have roundaboutly responded to with:
The argument about well those guys got nominated and they didn't have experience. Well it was dumb to nominate those people too. Its like work. You work hard, produce results, have the educational pedigree, and who gets the promotion to CEO, some slackjaw from Customer Service. What company in their right mind would do that? Why would our government?
Because judicial experience and judicial knowledge can be too different things. you don't have to be a judge to understand the law. you can be trained in other fields, and still have a superior mind for the law.
you're ignoring mountains of evidence that show, for this particular job, you don't need judicial experience.
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| | | 130 | Seattle Zen
ID: 1410391215 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 17:40
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TLB 116
The best judges are the best legal minds. That can come from sitting on the bench, but it also can come from practicing in front of the bench or teaching at a law school.
Every brain surgeon at one point picked up a scalpel for her first time...
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| | | 131 | Myboyjack Dude
ID: 014826271 Thu, Jul 22, 2010, 21:57
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Every brain surgeon at one point picked up a scalpel for her first time...
Well yeah - and sliced into the brain of a cadaver. They don't start on live tissue, you know. Plus, they go to school to learn how to be a surgeon. No one goes to Judge School.
Anyway, brain surgery is a lousy analogy anyway. We're not hiring her to perform ministerial duties like a brain surgeon or a district court judge, that's never been what being a member of that Court has been about. Legal knowledge and a keen, alert mind together with a sense of history and equity and justice are still the things we look for in a justice. I think experience as a judge on an important Court is the best method of assesing whether a candidate posseses those qualities, but it's not the only method.
I think that NFL Head Football Coach is a better fit for SCOTUS. And sure, years ago lots of guys were hired with no previous coaching experience. That's not the trend, however; and when it happens, it a legitimate point to raise.
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| | | 132 | Janessa
ID: 975530 Wed, Aug 03, 2011, 01:55
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Four score and seven minutes ago, I read a sweet article. Lol tahnks
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