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| Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [597172916] Fri, Oct 15, 2010, 23:08
The topic of Obama's czars came up in several different threads today, so maybe it deserves it's own thread. Boldwin suggested all these czars should be posted in the post office, which seems to imply that they are criminals.
From a link to Judicial Watch, the following list was posted:
Afghanistan Czar Richard Holbrooke
Health Foods Czar Sam Kass
AIDS Czar Jeffrey Crowley
Intelligence Czar James R. Clapper (nominated)
Auto Task Force Czar Ron Bloom
Information Czar Vivek Kundra
Border Czar Alan Bersin
Iran Czar unfilled
California Water Czar David J. Hayes
Medicare Czar Donald M. Berwick
Car Czar Ed Montgomery
Middle East Peace Czar George Mitchell
Climate Czar Todd Stern
Mideast Policy Czar Dennis Ross
Consumer Czar Elizabeth Warren
Mortgage Czar unfilled
Copyright Czar Victoria A. Espinel
Pay Czar Patricia Geoghegan (acting)
Cyberspace Czar Howard Schmidt
Performance Czar Jeffrey Zients
Domestic Violence Czar Lynn Rosenthal
Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein
Drug Czar Gil Kerlikowske
Science Czar John Holdren
Economic Czar Paul Volcker
Stimulus Accountability Czar Earl Devaney
Education Czar Kevin Jennings
Sudan Czar J. Scott Gration
Energy & Climate Change Czar Carol Browner
TARP Czar Herb Allison
Faith-Based Czar Joshua Dubois
Technology Czar Aneesh Chopra
FCC Diversity Czar Mark Lloyd
Terrorism Czar John Brennan
Great Lakes Czar Cameron Davis
Urban Affairs/Housing Czar Adolfo Carrion
Green Jobs Czar Van Jones (resigned)
War Czar Douglas Lute
Guantanamo Closure Czar Danny Fried
Weapons Czar Ashton Carter
Health Care Czar Nancy-Ann De Parle
Weapons of Mass Destruction Czar Gary Samore
I'm not sure how the word 'czar' fits into the current vernacular, or what constitutes a czar, as opposed to an advisor or special projects manager, but according to Judicial Watch, President Barack Obama has been taking advantage of a recent precedent by appointing government officials who are not subject to Senate approval. These "czars" have tremendous power to regulate and control enormous parts of the American economy and government. And, as powerful as these czars are, some of them may not have even been subjected to a basic FBI background check.
The first name on the list is Afghanistan czar,
Richard Holbrooke.
Holbrooke's official title is special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and, as his bio suggests, he is eminently qualified for the position. The czar term is misapplied right off the bat. Interesting to note that some pundits who do think it applies, use headlines like Afghanistan czar and potential traitor, when the accompanying copy reads:
While some may see him as a potential traitor, the indications are that he is endeavoring to bring peace to a complex part of the world.
There are also a few vague attempts to tie Holbrooke with George Soros in a Kevin Bacon kind of way that would make for a good Steven Colbert bit.
Next on the list is Health Foods Czar, Sam Kass, official title: assistant White House chef and Food Initiative Coordinator.
he has a major influence on President Obama's food policy, especially the organic and local food movements and farm-to-school initiatives.
"He really has been put in place for a different role, for advising the first lady, for being the face of the place," Walter Scheib, who was the executive White House chef for the Clinton and Bush administrations, said. "It's great that someone who is still physically in the kitchen, chopping, dicing, roasting, physically cooking, not just talking about cooking, would be part of that discussion."
Kass is on the forefront of improving school lunches in order to get kids to eat healthier food, "It's got to taste good, you know?" he said. "They're not going to eat it, no matter how healthy it is, if it doesn't taste good." link
Sounds pretty innocent to me. Health Food Czar brings images of someone dictating to the FDA that brown rice and cabbage be mandatory items for all Americans. Other than obligatory negative references in the aforementioned Judicial Watch and WND, there's absolutely nothing that would put Kass in the category of a Czar.
OK, this is getting long-winded, so one more for now. California Water Czar David J Hayes.
David J. Hayes is the Deputy Secretary of the Interior in the Obama administration. His nomination was confirmed on May 20, 2009 [1] by the United States Senate and he took office on May 22, 2009. Hayes received two Republican votes, Olympia Snowe of Maine and Jon Kyl of Arizona whom has worked closely with Hayes in the past
Didn't Judicial Watch say that President Barack Obama has been taking advantage of a recent precedent by appointing government officials who are not subject to Senate approval?
The Left Behind asked today,
Why do we even need them? Doesn't the President have enough advisors in the form of his cabinet and all the other people in the West Wing of the White House? Is Obama really that indecisive as a leader that he needs all those people?
Hayes is an advisor in Obama's cabinet. If you don't think California needs special attention to its water issues, I suggest you read this.
At a spirited town hall meeting in California's agricultural heartland, Salazar told a packed auditorium that Deputy Interior Secretary David J. Hayes will "bring all of the key federal agencies to the table" to coordinate efforts. Salazar said he wanted to direct $160 million in Recovery Act funds for the federal Central Valley Project, which manages the dams and canals that move water around the state, and will expedite water transfers from other areas.
Members of the San Joaquin Valley congressional delegation told Salazar that three years of drought were forcing farmers to fallow hundreds of thousands of acres and idle farmworkers.
Pretty simple, who needs a coordinator? Just give those farmers all the water they want, no matter where it comes from.
Lost in the chorus of catcalls and applause were the voices of environmental groups, fishermen and coastal communities impacted by the collapse of the salmon season. They were there to remind Salazar that the North Coast fishing industry had been hard hit by a decline of salmon in the delta, which has resulted in the cancellation of commercial fishing season for the past two years.
Zeke Grader, executive director of the Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations, said that 23,000 commercial and recreational people were unemployed because California's salmon fishery is shut down, which has cost the economy $1.4 billion.
Well, not so simple after all. And there's nothing I could find to suggest Hayes would have tremendous power to regulate and control enormous parts of the American economy and government making the California Water Czar tag nothing more than nonsensical rhetoric.
This isn't to say that those tagged as Czars can't and shouldn't be examined closely to assure that effective governance is the goal. It's also important to examine each case individually, if one had the time and desire, rather than lump all these names into the category Czar with negative conotations generally applied.
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| | | 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Sat, Oct 16, 2010, 00:05
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It is probably worth noting that Herb Allison, Gil Kerlikowske, Jeffrey Zients, Cass Sunstein, John Holdren, Aneesh Chopra, Douglas Lute, and Ashton Carter were all ratified by the Senate.
[Which raises the question: How many holes can be poked in this flimsy argument before the Right stops waving it around like it holds meaning?]
Todd Stern retired in 2009. As did Van Jones. Lynn Rosenthal actually works for the Vice President.
God forbid the President takes advice from Paul Volcker. Or John Brennan.
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| | | 2 | DWetzel
ID: 33337117 Sat, Oct 16, 2010, 00:31
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Your efforts are appreciated, PV. Of course, our resident lunatic fringe isn't going to bother to read your eminently rational thoughts, because calling people names is much easier than giving a damn about right and wrong for them. But I suppose it needed to be said anyway.
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| | | 3 | Seattle Zen Leader
ID: 055343019 Sat, Oct 16, 2010, 12:48
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TLB - Why do we even need them? Doesn't the President have enough advisors in the form of his cabinet and all the other people in the West Wing of the White House? Is Obama really that indecisive as a leader that he needs all those people?
The President took your advice and has released everyone on this list. He had to cancel all his appointments on Friday as it took him 4 hours to sign all of the paychecks for the postal workers in the Eastern Time Zone, an hour to approve vacation time requests from support staff members in the SEC, FEC, and Pentagon, and another 7 hours just approving color schemes for the interiors of the dozens of new Intelligence buildings cropping up around the nation.
Seriously, letting Baldwin dictate what silly blather to discuss really brings down the tenor of the conversation, the story I linked to is far more important. Everyone talks about the growth of spending in Washington, but nothing has mushroomed quite like Intelligence. Yeah, even the amount of money being spent is secret. Here's a top area to take a scalpel.
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| | | 4 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Oct 16, 2010, 14:51
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TLB from the Housing Bubble thread:
Why do we even need them?
Wikipedia: Advantages cited for the creation of czar type posts are the ability to go outside of formal channels and find creative solutions for ad hoc problems, the ability to involve a lot of government players in big issue decision-making, and the ability to get a huge bureaucracy moving in the right direction. Problems can occur with getting all the parties to work together and with managing competing power centers.[18]
The increase in czar positions over time may be because as the size and role of the federal government has grown, so too has the difficulty of coordinating policy across multiple organizational jurisdictions.[19] Indeed, czar positions sometimes become important enough that they become permanent executive offices, such as the Office of National Drug Control Policy or the United States Trade Representative.[19]
Two legal scholars have also questioned whether Congress has contributed to the proliferation of czars.[20] From 1939 to 1984, Congress had authorized the president to consolidate functions and agencies within the Executive branch, pursuant to the Reorganization Act, which minimized the president's administrative burden "of trying to coordinate disparate functions operating under equally disparate authorities." But Congress allowed this authority to expire at the end of President Reagan's first term, leading these scholars to conclude:Absent reorganization authority, what was a president to do? The president cannot personally coordinate all disparate functions and agencies in the massive federal government. Yet, if a policy fails because of poor coordination, the president is held to account. So it is no coincidence that as the complexity of government machinery has grown, presidents have responded by increasing the number of assistants or "czars" to help with the management and coordination of the executive branch.[1] Katherine McIntire Peters (footnote #19 from the Wiki entry):Recent presidents have had influential senior advisers charged with coordinating policy across the executive branch, said Stephen Hess, a veteran staffer of the Eisenhower and Nixon administrations and now senior fellow emeritus at the Brookings Institution.
When Hess began his career in government during the Eisenhower administration, "government did a lot less," and coordinating policy across departments wasn't as difficult as it is today, he said. "Where there were conflicts, Sherman Adams, chief of staff, simply brought in the secretary of Commerce and the secretary of Labor and locked them in a room and told them not to come out until they had reached whatever compromise. That was about it."
But when Hess joined the Nixon administration to serve as deputy to Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Nixon's urban affairs czar in today's parlance (a moniker Moynihan would have disdained, Hess said), the federal government had grown into a lot of cross-cutting issues that demanded better coordination.
Moynihan was successful because he was able to vet and get buy-in for policy proposals before Nixon announced them. "For administration-wide proposals it was a very good way to operate -- better than things just being handed down," Hess said.
Franklin Reeder, a consultant and management expert whose 35 years of public service included more than two decades at the Office of Management and Budget, said presidents of both parties have long created senior advisory positions to solve seemingly intractable problems for which no single agency or individual held responsibility.
Creating high-level coordinators allows a president to concentrate attention on a problem without expending a lot of resources or creating a large bureaucratic memorial to what might be a transitional issue, Reeder said. Is Obama really that indecisive as a leader that he needs all those people?
This is either a shamelessly disingenuous question for someone who should know that czars have been around since WW2 or an embarrassingly ignorant question from the guy who chided me yesterday, demanding, "You know what a czar is don't you?"
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| | | 5 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Oct 16, 2010, 15:37
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It's also a terrific example of a "have you stopped beating your wife" type of question, for the record.
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| | | 6 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Oct 18, 2010, 12:26
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"You know what a czar is don't you?"
This is really the crux of the issue. The lengthy list provided by Judicial Watch has no defined requirements for being termed as such. The discrepancies between George Mitchell and Sam Kass are staggering, to say the least.
What I find distressing is that those who concoted the list, as well as those who would eagerly present it as valid, are the same people who are constantly telling us how pure their principles. They tell us they are the 'real' conservatives.
The only principles I see at work here are dishonesty, laziness and distortion.
letting Baldwin dictate what silly blather to discuss
Baldwin doesn't want to discuss the issue. He wants to pull a couple names from the extensive list, like Van Jones, Kevin Jennings and Cass Sunstein, and claim that they are representative of the entire list. Marxists! Maoists! Stalinists all!
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| | | 7 | J-Bar
ID: 139551818 Mon, Oct 18, 2010, 20:11
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But is the proliferation of Czar position that are able to make policy changes that sometimes override congressional law making procedures a good thing? I would say no. I think that our process does have flaws but the checks and balances are there for a purpose.
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| | | 8 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Oct 18, 2010, 21:01
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But is the proliferation of Czar position that are able to make policy changes that sometimes override congressional law making procedures a good thing?
I would need to see some evidence of policy changes that override congressional law before making any kind of good/bad determination.
So, do you have a specific law that has been overriden?
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| | | 9 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Mon, Oct 18, 2010, 22:36
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Since no one who vehemently objects to these czars(even if the term has yet to be clearly defined), I will provide some specific objections raised by Republicans, Michigan's Fred Upton.
“We need to go line by line, page by page through the line items they happen to fund,” Upton said. “For a lot of these programs, I’m not sure they were authorized [by Congress], so how is it we are spending money for them?
“We are going to be focusing like a laser beam on overreaching by the regulators.”
I'm all for a short lease on excessive government spending, so I would have 2 questions for Rep. Upton.
1. Why are you not sure which programs are and are not authorized by Congress?
2. What aren't you focusing on overreaching by regulators now, instead of waiting until Republicans have a House majority in January?
Upton also plans to put the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) effort to circumvent congressional inaction on cap and trade by regulating carbon dioxide as a pollutant under the microscope if Republicans win in November.
The rule, published last spring, will regulate new power plants, oil refineries and factories that contribute more than 100,000 tons of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons and sulfur hexafluoride annually and existing ones that increase emissions by 75,000 tons annually. Smaller emitters will be exempted from the rule.
Finally, a specific new regulation that can be addressed. Carol Browner, Obama's energy czar, and former head of the EPA under Clinton, is a likely target as one of Obama's czars who actually fits the bill that detractors are recklessly attributing to about 40 people.
Let's also keep in mind that there were no Republican objections to the back room dealings and Congressional sidestepping of the Cheney Energy Task Force, and no characterizations of "czar" for Bush energy advised Matt Simmons.
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| | | 10 | Boldwin
ID: 10916195 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 06:30
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For the record I will stipulate that Obama could not find 40 prominent applicants for those positions, all with public professions of love for Mao and hatred for the traditional american way. I will also stipulate that Obama does not have exclusive rights to the term "Czar".
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| | | 11 | Tree
ID: 248472317 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 08:45
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For the record I will stipulate that Obama could not find 40 prominent applicants for those positions, all with public professions of love for Mao and hatred for the traditional american way.
and why would he? neither Obama, not the majority of his supporters, feel that way.
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| | | 12 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 11:25
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For the record I will stipulate that Obama could not find 40 prominent applicants for those positions, all with public professions of love for Mao and hatred for the traditional american way.
For the record, your stipulations are meaningless at this juncture. The list that you originally posted, and is the topic of this thread, has been shown to be nothing more than a hodgepodge of names, rather than any true analysis of the duties, responsibilities and, ultimately, effectiveness or ineffectiveness of those appointees.
What we have here is a gross distortion of reality by whoever created that list, a distortion you gleefully posted, sans any type of research to support your claims; instead, a caveat that all these people should have their pictures posted in the post office.
Now you want me to respect your interpretation of the American way?
Here's the bottom line, at least for me. There are names on that list, and responsibilities assigned, that either overreach the powers assigned to the executive branch, or are duplications of responsibilities already covered within a bloated federal government. There are also names on that list of people who are eminently qualified for the positions they occupy, work within the structure of the President's cabinet, and are assigned specific responsibilities which are necessary to address problems, and hopefully, resolve some of them.
Blanket condemnation based on obsessive cynicism better defines hatred of the American way IMO.
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| | | 13 | Boldwin
ID: 10916195 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 11:36
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The list that you originally posted, and is the topic of this thread, has been shown to be nothing more than a hodgepodge of names, rather than any true analysis of the duties, responsibilities and, ultimately, effectiveness or ineffectiveness of those appointees.
The list of Czars has been shown to be a list of Czars. Many of whom were picked for their love of Mao and other despots, and a corresponding distaste for capitalism and individual freedom.
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| | | 14 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 12:24
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Prove it.
While you are at it, respond to the point that at least 8 of these names were ratified by the Senate.
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| | | 15 | Boldwin
ID: 10951913 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 14:19
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You ignored the clear evidence Obama was a marxist. This gets a pass all the time by people who should know better.
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| | | 16 | Razor
ID: 57854118 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 14:20
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Firm belief is not a substitute for evidence.
This thread will go about as far as could be expected.
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| | | 17 | Boldwin
ID: 10951913 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 14:20
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Perhaps the tea party candidates will learn to play hardball with these types of nominees. I'll believe it when I see it.
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| | | 18 | Boldwin
ID: 10951913 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 14:23
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Razor
Since it will not phase you in the least when I present you with incontrovertable evidence that this Czar and that Czar have openly expressed their great respect for Mao, in fact listing him as their greatest inspirartion, what is my payoff for showing it to you?
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| | | 19 | Tree, not at home
ID: 18342816 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 14:48
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You ignored the clear evidence Obama was a marxist. This gets a pass all the time by people who should know better.
of course, if evidence was provided, it might be reviewed. alas, there was none.
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| | | 20 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 15:20
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Actually, this is a golden opportunity for our friend Boldwin to engage in some real political discussion, but the topic continually seems to be sidetracked by nonsense(incontrovertable evidence that this Czar and that Czar have openly expressed their great respect for Mao).
The evidence that is incontrovertible is that, after I asked you start at the top with Richard Holbrooke, you refused to acknowledge that I made a very legitimate request to support your point of view regarding a list that you posted.
You seem to think you should be immune to having what you post challenged in any way, preferring to play a victim's role as one who is badgered and stalked. Part of the reason so many of your posts are challenged is that you tend to take an extremist position which, at the very least, beg for clarification.
Regardless, the irony of this topic is that, when you brought up Elizabeth Warren, I agreed that it was an example of federal bureauracracy being expanded in a negative way. When J-Bar asked if it was a good thing that these czars were circumventing Congress with rules and regulations, it was me who pointed out Carol Browner was the most obvious culprit behind tighter regulations on power plant emmissions.
It's been my hope that there can be an adult discussion of real issues regarding these czars, so it's disheartening to see Boldwin revert to the Mao card, then act like he's somehow being shortchanged(What's my payoff?)
I'm not sure what kind of 'payoff' we're talking here, but any intelligent discussion of these czars(taken individually) without resorting to emotional claims of Marxism or love of Mao would be a good starting point.
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| | | 21 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Tue, Oct 19, 2010, 20:32
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Here's an obvious Maoist, Sudan Czar J Scott Gration, retired US Air Force
Awards and Decorations ¡Defense Superior Service Medal ¡Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster ¡Bronze Star Medal ¡Purple Heart ¡Defense Meritorious Service Medal ¡Meritorious Service Medal with silver oak leaf cluster ¡Air Medal with two silver oak leaf clusters ¡Aerial Achievement Medal with silver and two bronze oak leaf clusters ¡Air Force Commendation Medal with gVh device and two oak leaf clusters ¡Joint Service Achievement Medal ¡Air Force Achievement Medal ¡Combat Readiness Medal with oak leaf cluster ¡National Defense Service Medal with bronze star ¡Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal with bronze star ¡Southwest Asia Service Medal with bronze star ¡Armed Forces Service Medal ¡Humanitarian Service Medal with three bronze stars ¡Kuwait Liberation Medal (Government of Kuwait) ¡Medal of Independence, First Degree Kingdom of Jordan link
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| | | 22 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:28
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Do any of these "czars" do anything? Do they get paid? I feel this could be the best job ever.
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| | | 23 | biliruben
ID: 34820210 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:36
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They aren't paid. Sorry man.
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| | | 24 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:45
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They're not paid?
Would it be possible to obtain information from these people if they were not designated a czar?
Are there other people that Obama gets information from that are not designated czars?
What does any of it matter.
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| | | 25 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 09:52
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It matters because i want the title Czar, even if not paid i feel i could be a czar in my spare time. maybe they will make me the spare time czar.
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| | | 26 | DWetzel
ID: 278201415 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 10:00
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"They're not paid?"
Nope.
"Would it be possible to obtain information from these people if they were not designated a czar?"
Sure. There's actually some benefit to identifying the people the president is seeking advice from, though. More disclosure on that sort of thing is better than less, right?
"Are there other people that Obama gets information from that are not designated czars?"
One would assume that, from time to time, someone would tell the president something, yes.
"What does any of it matter."
Very little, except to people who seem to think the President should not seek expert advice on specific issues, and who like to use silly terms like "czar" to demean people they disagree with.
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| | | 27 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 11:12
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Some are paid, some aren't. The term 'czar" applies in only a few cases, mostly the term has become a rhetorical political weapon.
That's why it's important to analyze each name on the list separately, which is the only way to determine if the person is filling a necessary function, a duplicitous function, or is simply cronyism run amock.
There are names on the list which fit each category.
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| | | 28 | J-Bar
ID: 119342020 Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 21:34
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One quick example is the welfare reform that was passed during Clinton's term has had a policy change to not count the previous months that were received against current recipients and applicants. Not real sure if this was a Czar or just HHS head that was able to circumvent the law or maybe it was voted on and I missed it.
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| | | 29 | Boldwin
ID: 011322421 Tue, Dec 25, 2012, 17:17
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I had to laugh at one of Van Jones' tweets. Been a while, but he mourned the fact that if oil prices go one way, people get cheaper gas, if prices go the other way more drilling happens and America becomes energy independent.
You just can't win...lol!
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