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| Posted by: Boldwin
- [2210132620] Sat, Nov 27, 2010, 00:48
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| | | 1 | Boldwin
ID: 2210132620 Sat, Nov 27, 2010, 01:11
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On leaving
Curious how they need felon voters and out of control immigration. Very familiar ring to it.
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| | | 2 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 04:44
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Sarkozy getting all worked up:“France on its own cannot cope.” This also has a familiar ring to it.France may not be able to cope on its own, but there aren’t many countries able or willing to help it. Moody’s just cut Spain’s debt rating and Standard and Poor’s did the same to 24 Italian banks. France has a very simple plan that will solve all its problems: Germany must pour money into a European fund that will bail France out while accepting more French influence over future German financial decisions.
It is simple and elegant, but for some reason the Germans aren’t as enthusiastic about the French.
Viewed from Paris, the European Union has always been an effective way for France to increase its global influence by marginalizing Britain and domesticating Germany. Previously, Germany swallowed the bitter pills that France handed to it. Trading the mighty D-Mark for reunification was only one of them. But this time the Germans are balking: --- When it comes to economics, the Germans are confident that they know better than the Latins and the Greeks [how can you argue with that? - B], and they are much harder to budge on economic policy issues than they used to be. Germans are in any case allergic to President Sarkozy’s hyperactive negotiating style. The faster he tries to bounce them into some grand scheme, the more their go-slow instincts kick in.
Sarkozy wants to turn global investor nervousness into a negotiating tool. “The markets will melt down worldwide if you don’t give me what I want by Sunday,” appears to be his latest approach. This may not be as powerful a weapon as he hopes. At this point the Germans have seen markets collapse and recover many times during what is slowly turning from a crisis into a historical period. A solution cobbled together to meet a self-imposed deadline may buy a few days peace on the financial markets, but unless the plan is sound and sensible, investors will quickly pick it apart and we will soon be back to yet another hysterical crisis and yet another set of French demands, Germans reason.
Take your time, get it right — and don’t get sucked into any long term commitments until you are absolutely sure you are not being entangled in some devious French ploy.
Screaming at the Germans is usually not the best way to reach an agreement. Germany is usually willing to defer to France on questions of prestige and decor. But it is increasingly less willing to give ground on substance — especially when it is convinced that France’s inflationary, politicizing instincts are the kind of Latin economic ideas that caused the European crisis in the first place. - Walter Russell Mead
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| | | 3 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 19:57
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“Just when the eurozone governments thought it could not get worse for Europe’s single currency, it did. Shell-shocked EU finance ministers meeting in Brussels on Saturday were already reeling from the worst Franco-German rift for over 20 years and a fractious failure to resolve the problems that have brought Greece, and the euro, close to the brink. But then a new bombshell hit as a joint report by the EU and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) warned that, without a default, the Greek debt crisis alone could swallow the eurozone’s entire €440 billion bailout fund – leaving nothing to spare to help the affected banks of Italy, Spain or France.” Cameron blocks a referendum on the E.U. but 66 percent of Britons back a referendum on European Union membership. - via Instapundit
European Internal Market Commissioner Michel Barnier is considering a move to ban [bond ratings] agencies from publishing outlook reports on EU countries
Naturally the great vulture circles the crisis. Soros suggests crazy plan that could only be conceivable when a region had lost it's mind with fear. Never let a crisis go to waste.So let's sum it up: if the undercapitalized banks want to be shored up by corrupt politicians giving away taxpayer money, then they become wards of the state. If they take the deal and refuse to play along, then they really become wards of the state. That way the banks are recapitalized to fund the paying down of the debt of Euro governments in order to shore up the banks so the banks fund the paying down of the debt of Euro governments to shore up the banks.
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| | | 4 | sarge33rd
ID: 579422612 Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 22:16
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Not saying the article is right or wrong (it is well outside my field of expertise), but just what *IS* the alternative and what are the "unintended consequences" of that alternative?
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| | | 5 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 23:06
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American Thinker should change its name to American Drinker. Rarely has there ever been a more distorted article written by an author who likely wrote this while drinking 12 year old scotch at his local, private, whites-only country club. I wonder if he has teenagers enrolled at the advertised Diamond Ranch Academy, which costs a mere $59,000 for a 10 month session.
People who use terms like The Great Vulture and, from the article, It's too bad we can't close our eyes, click our heels together, and go back to the old days of drinking the sweet nectar of a fiat-financed bubble and It helps to imagine the likes of Angela Merkel and Jean Claude Troche brandishing chains and whips have no real interest in seriously discussing the current situation with the EU.
Soros has no position in this except as a commentator. Unless, if we're to belive Boldwin, he's simply a front man for the Rothschild Banking Empire. If that were true, why then would this author offer this tidbit:
If the banks refuse to cooperate, then resistance becomes futile as they will be completely nationalized. Before they were nationalized but under the guise of being privately run.
Wait a minute. If the Rothschilds control European banking, and Soros is simply their stooge, why would he make suggestions that could end up nationalizing their private entities. Except they're really only under the guise of being privately run. Huh?
Come back when you have something intelligent to offer. May I suggest this live blog from the
European Wall Street Journal?
Admittedly, it doesn't mention Soros or Rothschilds, but it does offer actual journalism concerning the current European summit, even some opinion pieces like this from Allen Mattich:
Otto von Bismarck is said to have warned against watching laws and sausages being made.
Well, Europe's latest generation of politicians is trying to rebuild a pig out of sausage meat. They are trying to shore up confidence in the fatally flawed euro zone using half measures, when what's really needed is a fundamental rethink of the project itself. What's more, only half the necessary participants are involved in the half measures.
Unless the European Central Bank throws the might of its printing presses into the mix, a move that could buy Europe's politicians time to create the next medium-term eurofudge, the latest summit is likely to prove a failure.
In the longer term, one commonly cited solution is closer fiscal integration of countries that use the euro. If only, say its proponents, euro-zone members were more closely bonded through taxes, transfer payments and governance structures, the imbalances that are threatening to tear the single currency apart could be resolved.
But this seems utopian. It is unlikely that even the minimal fiscal union necessary to bind Europe's diverse nation states could be made to work over the long run. To see why, it's worth looking at Yugoslavia.
There may well be EU failure. But it has nothing to do with Soros, and you look foolish bringing it up, especially since your last paragraph is taken verbatim from the article, not your own anlysis.
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| | | 6 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:26
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European Stocks Rally
European stock markets soared Thursday, led by the heavily weighted banking sector, as investors reacted with relief to the euro zone's agreement on measures to stem the region's deepening debt crisis.
The Stoxx Europe 600 index for the banking sector jumped 7.1%. French banks led the rally, as they have been weighed down by worries over the extent of their Greek debt exposure. Shares in Crédit Agricole climbed 15%, BNP Paribas added 16%, and Société Générale was 11% higher.
Of course, today's surge in no way means the EU is out of the woods, but it's certainly a positive step in stabilizing the European markets, which directly affect all global markets.
It's distressing to see the contingency cheering for markets to tank, using fear as their weapon and political chicanery as their agenda.
We have to ask ourselves who are the real vultures circling the crisis. We have to ask ourselves who concentrates 100% on the negative and contentious aspects of this issue(see title post and posts #1, 2 and 3), while completely ignoring the positive and cooperative aspects(see the link in this post dated today).
My daily barrage of emails from Newsmax yielded a clue this morning.
Dear Moneynews Reader:
Please find below a special message from our sponsoring advertiser, the Weiss Group. They have important information to share with you
America's Financial Doomsday
The jist is that if you invest with us and subscribe to our newsletter, massive profits will be made, even in down markets. Without delving into their strategy, I'm guessing short selling is a major part of their strategy, which is the very definition of "the great vulture" in economic markets. This, and abandonment of traditional market investments in favor of gold, are the constant refrains from Newsmax "sponsors."
US, Asian and European markets are all up big today on news of a euro-zone regional bailout fund. That should be cause for celebration, even if just for today. For those invested in failure, we'll hear any number of negative comments hoping that their visions of doom will rapidly return to the news. I find that a miserable way to approach life.
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| | | 7 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:34
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There may well be EU failure. But it has nothing to do with Soros, and you look foolish bringing it up, especially since your last paragraph is taken verbatim from the article, not your own anlysis.
You figured out all by yourself that something in blockquotes was a verbatim quote?
Soros gets taken seriously because he has purchased a boatload of politicians and influential think tanks and propaganda mills. The idea that his propses 'fix' isn't a significant news item is ridiculous.
I didn't say that Soros caused the crisis. I said that as usual he was angling to profit handsomely from it. And as usual his solution would make a bad situation worse.
And don't cry for Rothschild banks. These private banks and special relationships with central banks would not be hurt.
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| | | 8 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:47
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Not saying the article is right or wrong (it is well outside my field of expertise), but just what *IS* the alternative and what are the "unintended consequences" of that alternative? - Sarge
The problem is obviously bloated socialist spending programs.
Socialism wasn't affordable in a very weak low grade services way under communism and it for sure isn't sustainable as a Mercedes Benz gold plated version of socialism.
Europe can't even afford it's socialism when they don't have to foot the bill for their own national defense.
The answer is to drop out of the EU and pursue Thatcherism, of course. At the very least cut bait on the worst offenders, let them strip down to a sustainable level of national programs before re-admitting them.
The Germans aren't getting anything from their bailout money and they won't keep this up forever. The people they are bailing out don't understand why they are the basket cases that they are and aren't sufficiently reformulating to deal with reality.
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| | | 9 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:47
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Quit acting like you know what you're talking about. Your Soros accusations- as usual he was angling to profit handsomely from it. And as usual his solution would make a bad situation worse - are mere words with no substance beyond your obsession with the man. If you're studied and prepared, give us concrete evidence of how Soros will profit handsomely. Any kind of details. Most people do the research and then make accusations.
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| | | 10 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:53
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That's like asking a great white shark what he's doing hanging around a seal colony.
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| | | 11 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:56
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He's not asking the shark. He's asking you.
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| | | 12 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 12:02
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And for the record atm Soros is 75% cash and waiting for the European fire sale. If his screwy suggestions set a few fires, well that's all to the good from his POV.
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| | | 13 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 12:04
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And for the record, threatening an industry with nationalization is never helpful for that industry, in this case already struggling banks.
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| | | 14 | sarge33rd
ID: 2992712 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 13:44
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Nr1...get off the "socialism" kick. China, whom the right scvreams about their owning America, is a communist/socialist country. So if socialism/communism is DOOMED to fail, how then can they own us?
Try one time, answering a direct question, not with politically motivated BS, but with facts. (Unless of course you are trying out for your own foxspews show; in which case facts are the very LAST thing with which you would want to familiarize yourself.
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| | | 15 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 79512712 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 13:51
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Here's what helps me sort through all these types of threads and posts. If you replaced all of Baldwins " Conspiracy! Soros, Rothchild, Socialism, End Times" etc references and paranoia with the word "UFO", you'll waste far less time responding to his nonsense. And all the subject matter will still make about the same amount of sense.
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| | | 16 | sarge33rd
ID: 2992712 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 13:53
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lmao sox
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| | | 17 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 16:15
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Nr1...get off the "socialism" kick. China, whom the right scvreams about their owning America, is a communist/socialist country. So if socialism/communism is DOOMED to fail, how then can they own us?
Get with the times it is 2011 they have not been communist/socialist of decades. China has one things with a communist country they have one party state that runs the country basically as a dictatorship.
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| | | 18 | sarge33rd
ID: 2992712 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 16:22
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apparently boikin, political scientists disagree with you. Seems they define China as 1 of the 5 remaining communist countries.
yeah i know, wiki
The PRC is regarded by several political scientists as one of the world's five last remaining Communist states (along with Vietnam, North Korea, Laos, and Cuba),[102][103][104] but simple characterizations of PRC's political structure since the 1980s are no longer possible.
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| | | 19 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 16:46
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sarge maybe while you are searching wiki you should try looking up the word several and I am sure several political scientist say the USA is communist and look at your own quote "but simple characterizations of PRC's political structure since the 1980s are no longer possible." And if you actually read the citations you would see one does not say china is communist it just says it was, the second was dated 1994 and the other story about cuba it's link does not exists.
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| | | 20 | sarge33rd
ID: 2992712 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 16:48
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I did look at the quote and I am quite familiar with the word several. However, I will take the word of "several political scientists", over that of an anonymous i-net forum poster.
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| | | 21 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 17:45
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but simple characterizations of PRC's political structure since the 1980s are no longer possible.
It is very simple. China has synthisized capitalism and communism into the next phase where only the politically correct party members get to enjoy the benefits of capitalism and everyone else is stuck with communism.
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| | | 22 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 17:48
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Which more or less describes the direction all countries are going towards.
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| | | 23 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 17:59
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Even simpler, it can simply be called representational capitalism. Very similar to crony capitalism but with a political requirement added.
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| | | 24 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 12:29
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China has synthisized capitalism and communism into the next phase where only the politically correct party members get to enjoy the benefits of capitalism and everyone else is stuck with communism.
I think you mean they stuck with poverty, there is not communist about china, The USA is more communist than china, try getting medical care in china.
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| | | 25 | Mith
ID: 23217270 Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 13:42
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FWIW I have a cousin who has lived in China for most of the last decade who raves about access to healthcare, especially dentists.
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| | | 26 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 17:54
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there is not communist about china, The USA is more communist than china - Boikin
Tell it to the millions of political prisoners in the communist Laogai prison system. Try being a chinese citizen setting up a factory without being a party member.
The USA is plenty socialist and marxist but hasn't descended to communism yet.
I was speaking precisely.
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| | | 27 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:23
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I don't think there is any question that China is communistic. Somehow people are confusing "modernism" with "westernism."
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| | | 28 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 20:06
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My favorite reporter in the entire world explains the EU problems. Unfortunately it is written for educated europeans familiar with myriad arcane references and abbreviations but rest assured that this is the real scoop. This reporter is unflinching and doesn't care whose toes he steps on to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
He routinely get's reassigned to a new beat because he has burned too many powerful people on his last assignment.
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| | | 29 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sat, Nov 05, 2011, 14:04
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I forget where I heard this but found it to be a very pithy explanation. It went:
The EU crisis boils down to the southern tier countries upon entry into the EU suddenly acquired much better credit and ease of borrowing thus allowing ballooning government deficit spending.
[of course politicians will virtually always buy votes with any available funds]
Maybe electing non-politicians whose first loyalty is to their promise to cut spending is an answer.
Term-limited non-politicians even. Non-careerists.
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| | | 30 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 07:52
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Looks like Greece had a few too many 'jobs bills'.
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| | | 31 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 09:44
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Taken out of context, we just don't know.
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| | | 32 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 11:01
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Yeah, who can tell if 77% is too high a percentage of patronage political workers in the workforce? Maybe 100% isn't too high, huh PD? Maybe they should shoot for zero GDP.
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| | | 33 | sarge33rd
ID: 47108610 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 11:42
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Talk about "out of context". The US Fed payroll is DOWN 300,000 from the day their vaunted "small govt" Pres Reagan left office, yet the population that govt serves is UP almost 50%.
Come on B...regale us with MEANINGFUL posts for a change.
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| | | 34 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 12:22
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How about that--asked for more context, and Boldwin actually tries to provide some!
Of course, the new information is not correct, but we should applaud the attempt.
who can tell if 77% is too high a percentage of patronage political workers in the workforce
Before we rip this up, let's clarify: You believe that 77% of workers in Greece are "patronage political workers," is that right? Not just public sector workers, but the subset of public sector workers who have their jobs specifically because of political patronage?
I don't like what is happening in Greece, but I try to avoid swallowing untruths about any country as a result of domestic US political bias. You should try that sometime--it'll make you seem smarter.
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| | | 35 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 14:11
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Public sector is all political. You hold your job at the whim of politics.
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| | | 36 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 14:19
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Yes, Mr. Marx--everything is politics. Glad you've taken that to heart.
Fact be damned.
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| | | 37 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 16:54
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Creative accounting, clipping off public sector workers from the count over technicalities..."the financial shortfall so far in 2011 is minor and is attributed to rational policy choices."
If you really believe Greece' shortfall is minor and it's choices have been rational go ahead, bury your head in the sand and by all means accept his 'narrowest possible' definition of public sector.
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| | | 38 | sarge33rd
ID: 47108610 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 17:36
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Rather than ridicule w./o basis, how about you enlighten us with your apparently inifinite wisdom, and explain PRECISELY where his contention is false? Then....gee...PROVE it.
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| | | 39 | Tosh Leader
ID: 057721710 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 18:07
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I'm surprised nobody has noted Baldwin's first obvious error. It was even provided in chart form in the link from 36.
The number on the graph represents "public-sector employees, in THOUSANDS". That means 770,000. Not 77%.
According to Google, the population of Greece is 11,319,048. 770,000/11,319,048 = 6.80%. According to the article, it's 8% public-sector employment. As a percentage of total-labor force, it's 18%.
Those are all noticeable differences from 77%. Or was that just some "Creative Accounting" Baldwin?
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| | | 40 | Perm Dude
ID: 549411117 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 18:20
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If you really believe Greece' shortfall is minor...
Stop acting stupid.
You are no longer permitted to misread your own chart, morph it into a slam against "public sector employment," then pivot to attacking me after I rejected the label you want to pin on me, out of embarrassment over your mistake.
Own up to your mistakes.
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| | | 41 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 18:43
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Tosh. Nice catch. I did not see it myself.
Tho the guy in PD's link is still minimizing the work that qualifies for public sector designation based on technicalities. Greece's shortfall still isn't minor and their policies still aren't rational.
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| | | 42 | sarge33rd
ID: 47108610 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 18:45
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Any solid facts to back up your contention?
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| | | 43 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 19:02
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Really, you need more facts to prove Greece is in more than a minor pickle? Proof the public sector is rioting because they are necessarily gonna take it in the neck? Proof Greece wasn't operating in a sustainable fashion?
Some things are self-evident.
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| | | 44 | sarge33rd
ID: 47108610 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 19:07
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You simply refuse, to engage in meaningful discourse. You slam without facts, you condemn using opinion pieces, you inflame via soundbites...and then you declare yourself "highly trained".
You are right about one thing though...some things ARE self evident. And your phoniness is at the top of that list.
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| | | 45 | Perm Dude
ID: 549411117 Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 19:55
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Really, you need more facts to prove Greece is in more than a minor pickle?
You are answering the wrong question.
This is like someone being anti-union because "they eat children."
Plenty of reasons not to like what is going on in Greece without making up the reasons.
Tosh's point was exactly what I was getting at.
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| | | 46 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 17:29
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Barclays Says Italy Is Finished: "Mathematically Beyond Point Of No Return"1) At this point, it seems Italy is now mathematically beyond point of no return 2) While reforms are necessary, in and of itself not be enough to prevent crisis 3) Reason? Simple math--growth and austerity not enough to offset cost of debt 4) On our ests, yields above 5.5% is inflection point where game is over 5) The danger:high rates reinforce stability concerns, leading to higher rates 6) and deeper conviction of a self sustaining credit event and eventual default 7) We think decisions at eurozone summit is step forward but EFSF not adequate 8) Time has run out--policy reforms not sufficient to break neg mkt dynamics 9) Investors do not have the patience to wait for austerity, growth to work 10) And rate of change in negatives not enuff to offset slow drip of positives 11) Conclusion: We think ECB needs to step up to the plate, print and buy bonds 12) At the moment ECB remains unwilling to be lender last resort on scale needed 13) But frankly will have hand forced by market given massive systemic risk Italy is much bigger and therefore more significant than the Greece, Portugal and Ireland problems before.
Of course Barclays is Rotschilds so maybe this just means that they already have placed their short bets and are now panicking the market.
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| | | 47 | Razor
ID: 09441723 Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 18:41
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Barclays is Rothschilds? This should be good.
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| | | 48 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 23:34
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I read that earlier. Italy was always bigger than Greece, but the Right thought they could use Greece's problems to complain about their own problems with Obama better.
This is all about how Germany reacts, however. And while they don't want to take on any more risk, they are by far the most stable (and stabilizing) force in the Union.
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| | | 49 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 00:25
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but the Right thought they could use Greece's problems to complain
Timing. We'll point out the devastating results of Italy's excessive government spending when their crisis explodes too.
In a sane country USA government overspenders would get the message before we enter the world of the financially doomed no matter what they do.
There is no Berlin waiting in the wings to rescue us.
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| | | 50 | sarge33rd
ID: 181050918 Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 01:10
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umm, in a sane world...we'd raise taxes on those able to pay and quite giving the already wealthy...welfare.
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| | | 51 | Boldwin
ID: 35615181 Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 02:18
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Um, Italy has a few rich people too. But no matter how you bleed them, it won't rescue Italy.
Pretty soon you run out of other people's money.
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| | | 52 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 09:26
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You mean: Pretty soon, the people with the money decide they are tired of supporting their own support.
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| | | 53 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 09:51
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The only sane approach is a balance of increased revenue and decreased spending. I actually agree with Michelle Bachmann's Happy Meal Tax. I also think there should be an annual cap on Medicaid to encourage recipients to choose a much cheaper InstaCare facility instead of a hospital emergency room in non-emergency cases. The cap can be raised in cases of obvious need. Just as we have to erase the mentality that the uber-wealthy shouldn't have their federal tax obligation back at levels from previous decades, we have to erase the mentality that the poor and working class should be completely exempt from any obligation whatsoever in contributing to entitlement programs that benefit them almost solely.
As long as voices in the forefront scream you can't bleed the rich, pretty soon you run out of other people's money, or the wealthy should shoulder the entire burden of addressing the problems of runaway federal debt, we'll continue a gridlock that accomplishes nothing, and leads us down the path that is facing Europe.
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| | | 54 | Boldwin
ID: 111025184 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 10:36
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Commodity brokerage house, Barnhardt Capital Management, decides that the government/market performace wrt Obama crony, Jon Corzine's MF Global holding company raises such red flags that they immediately ceased trading until Obama is out of office and the government is reformed wrt the markets.
Why do I post this in this thread? These holding company clearing houses are currently highly leveraged, [MF was leveraged more than 100:1] and loaded with doomed European derivatives, bets that cannot possibly be covered as the EU collapses.The reason for my decision to pull the plug was excruciatingly simple: I could no longer tell my clients that their monies and positions were safe in the futures and options markets – because they are not. And this goes not just for my clients, but for every futures and options account in the United States. The entire system has been utterly destroyed by the MF Global collapse. Given this sad reality, I could not in good conscience take one more step as a commodity broker, soliciting trades that I knew were unsafe or holding funds that I knew to be in jeopardy.
The futures markets are very highly-leveraged and thus require an exceptionally firm base upon which to function. That base was the sacrosanct segregation of customer funds from clearing firm capital, with additional emergency financial backing provided by the exchanges themselves. Up until a few weeks ago, that base existed, and had worked flawlessly. Firms came and went, with some imploding in spectacular fashion. Whenever a firm failure happened, the customer funds were intact and the exchanges would step in to backstop everything and keep customers 100% liquid – even as their clearing firm collapsed and was quickly replaced by another firm within the system.
Everything changed just a few short weeks ago. A firm, led by a crony of the Obama regime, stole all of the non-margined cash held by customers of his firm. Let’s not sugar-coat this or make this crime seem “complex” and “abstract” by drowning ourselves in six-dollar words and uber-technical jargon. Jon Corzine STOLE the customer cash at MF Global. Knowing Jon Corzine, and knowing the abject lawlessness and contempt for humanity of the Marxist Obama regime and its cronies, this is not really a surprise. What was a surprise was the reaction of the exchanges and regulators. Their reaction has been to take a bad situation and make it orders of magnitude worse. Specifically, they froze customers out of their accounts WHILE THE MARKETS CONTINUED TO TRADE, refusing to even allow them to liquidate. This is unfathomable. The risk exposure precedent that has been set is completely intolerable and has destroyed the entire industry paradigm. No informed person can continue to engage these markets, and no moral person can continue to broker or facilitate customer engagement in what is now a massive game of Russian Roulette.
I have learned over the last week that MF Global is almost certainly the mere tip of the iceberg. There is massive industry-wide exposure to European sovereign junk debt. While other firms may not be as heavily leveraged as Corzine had MFG leveraged, and it is now thought that MFG’s leverage may have been in excess of 100:1, they are still suicidally leveraged and will likely stand massive, unmeetable collateral calls in the coming days and weeks as Europe inevitably collapses. I now suspect that the reason the Chicago Mercantile Exchange did not immediately step in to backstop the MFG implosion was because they knew and know that if they backstopped MFG, they would then be expected to backstop all of the other firms in the system when the failures began to cascade – and there simply isn’t that much money in the entire system. In short, the problem is a SYSTEMIC problem, not merely isolated to one firm.
… And so, to the very unpleasant crux of the matter. The futures and options markets are no longer viable. It is my recommendation that ALL customers withdraw from all of the markets as soon as possible so that they have the best chance of protecting themselves and their equity. The system is no longer functioning with integrity and is suicidally risk-laden. The rule of law is non-existent, instead replaced with godless, criminal political cronyism.
… Finally, I will not, under any circumstance, consider reforming and re-opening Barnhardt Capital Management, or any other iteration of a brokerage business, until Barack Obama has been removed from office AND the government of the United States has been sufficiently reformed and repopulated so as to engender my total and complete confidence in the government, its adherence to and enforcement of the rule of law, and in its competent and just regulatory oversight of any commodities markets that may reform. So long as the government remains criminal, it would serve no purpose whatsoever to attempt to rebuild the futures industry or my firm, because in a lawless environment, the same thievery and fraud would simply happen again, and the criminals would go unpunished, sheltered by the criminal oligarchy.
...my clients, who literally TO THE MAN agreed with my assessment of the situation...
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| | | 55 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 10:39
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Corzine's demise at MF was predicted in many places. Doesn't exactly make him a "crony" of Obama, or lay Corzine's failures at the feet of the Administration.
I, too, applaud Barnhardt's self-removal from the marketplace. Clearly they are too partisan to look after their client's best interests unobjectively.
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| | | 56 | Boldwin
ID: 111025184 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 11:13
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And then they started OWS to take credit for the collapse.
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| | | 57 | Perm Dude
ID: 39961218 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 12:54
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I have no idea what that means. I suspect you don't either, but it matches your twin needs of conspiracy and liberal slams. Double word score!
You will almost certainly like this rant, however. Unlike you, I'm not afraid of opposing viewpoints.
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| | | 58 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 14:01
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I don't think that was much of an opposing viewpoint...or liberal slam.
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| | | 59 | Boldwin
ID: 510171818 Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 19:21
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I really don't like the confluence of the EU collapsing and the important 2012 election. These guys never let a crisis go to waste.
These derivatives all too often put us on the hook for the EU downside. We saw that when the Fed secretly bailed out Europes banks and now we hear from this broker that far from having unwound the derivative mess, our commodity markets are using European derivatives as security. Highly leveraged security.
When the other shoe drops Obama and OWS will be in there swinging the wrecking ball as it strikes, unlike last time.
"there I was slaving away to preserve capitalism but the people rose up and demanded it's downfall." - O
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| | | 62 | Boldwin
ID: 58112185 Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 10:40
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Some day we will look back at this thread as being as prescient as the original Housing Bubble thread.
What might have happened to MF's missing billion and what could have prevented it's clients from falling victim?
Perhaps the practice of hyper-hypothecation across Europe's shadow banking system.When I asked my hedge fund expert if he thought there was a regulatory solution to the problem, such as an outright ban on re-hypothecation, he quickly came back with the right answer. Only a fool would sign a contract that allows his broker to re-hypothecate collateral! In retrospect, this pretty much describes MF Global's client base. Many other clients at many other firms around the world are probably not even aware that they have handed this doomsday device to their brokers. The solution, then, is to read the fine print in your broker dealer contract. If your broker refuses to eliminate the re-hypothecation clause and swear off gambling with your collateral, go find another broker. Also discussed at Zerohedge, the internet's premier market explication site. A site many brokers don't dare have on their work computer's history and don't dare miss a day of.
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| | | 63 | Boldwin
ID: 58112185 Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 11:11
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LOL! OMG, now comes GOLD re- hypothecationEssentially, this is at the heart of the whole commingling situation: was MF Global using rehypothecated client gold to satisfy liabilities? The thought alone should send shivers up the spine of all those gold "bugs" who have been warning about precisely this for years. Because the implications could be staggering. --- Because here is the punchline: each physical gold or silver bar has a unique deisgnator that should never be replicated, yet this is precisely what happened to lead to the lawsuit! In a non-banana world, there should never be any debate over who owns a given physical asset, as replicated ownership (note - not liens) effectively means someone stole the gold (or there was counterfeiting involved) and was never caught... until MF Global finally expired of course.
So in other words, is this the eureka moment when everyone realizes that any gold, be it paper or physical, is either a irrelevant electronic binary claim held in some semiconductor, or at best an asset in some vault, that the brokerage next door suddenly also has claims over?
The end result is that the biggest loser is Joe Sixpack who bought the gold, and decided to keep it in a bank warehouse for "safekeeping" only to realize said gold will never be seen or heard of again.Five gold bars and 15 silver bars underlie eight Comex contracts between the brokerage and client Jason Fane of Ithaca, New York, London-based HSBC said in a court filing yesterday. Both parties have asserted claims to the bars, creating difficulties for HSBC, which is storing them, the bank said, asking a judge to decide who the rightful owner is.
“HSBC has received conflicting instructions regarding ownership and disposition of the property,” it said. “Accordingly, HSBC is exposed to multiple liabilities with respect to the disposition of the properties.” As for our advice: move any gold out of the LBMA or CME warehouse system immediately. And only treat any GLD investment as a day trading vehicle that can and will be lost the second there is a global liquidity or solvency freeze, because that particular asset will be wiped out as easily as "C:\format C:" Or just follow my advice. Strategic materials, not precious metals.
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| | | 64 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 16:23
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Not sure why Corzine gets shoehorned into this thread but at least we don't push another thread into the dustbin of history.

Michael Ramirez
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| | | 65 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 16:27
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Corzine got shoehorned into this thread because you specifically brought him up.
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| | | 66 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 18:41
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Well the next debacle will feature europe and shenanigans like Corzine's so in retrospect we'll say they do belong together.
You think he doesn't merit discussion anywhere?
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| | | 67 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 18:45
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I think he's a sideshow--a squirrel that those avoiding the hard questions like to chase after.
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| | | 68 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 19:09
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Not squirrel, the canary in the mineshaft. You just don't want a whiff of any disgraced former democrat senators gracing this forum no matter how apropos.
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| | | 69 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 19:24
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Corzine has nothing to do with the EU, no matter how much you wish it to be so.
You've picked up a sparkly piece of costume jewelry and now you want us to tell you how pretty you are now that you put it on your head.
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| | | 70 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Tue, Dec 20, 2011, 20:25
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Corzine has everything to do with the other shoe about to drop which I expect the EU's partial collapse will trigger. Our still shakey wormhole riddled financial markets will not stand up well. Or should I say Corzine-hole riddled.
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| | | 71 | Boldwin
ID: 58112185 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 09:31
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| | | 72 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 09:50
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It's not the welfare state, stupid.
For someone who claims to check for the devil in the details, I would have thought you would have looked a bit further than a pithy cartoon.
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| | | 73 | Boldwin
ID: 58112185 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 11:06
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It was all caused by government overspending exacerbated by credit ratings artificially improved by membership in the EU.
If Spain's spending was low, so what? It should have been lower and then they wouldn't be bankrupt. If interest rates in one basket case aren't yet as astronomical as other socialist basket cases so what? Some haven't been basket cases as long as others.
Krugman is the biggest source of deliberately misleading economic disinformation in the western world.
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| | | 74 | Boldwin
ID: 58112185 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 11:47
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"There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." - Keynes
"Print more money." - Krugman's solution for everything.
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| | | 76 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 14:51
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Jim Willie explains it all at goldseek.com
A small excerpt:
The Gold market has gone into the Twilight Zone. The ruin of the European banking system, dragged down by toxic sovereign debt, has made the big Euro banks desperate. They are tapping into the virtually unlimited Dollar Swap Facility, using borrowed money to lease gold. The Powerz have made the lease rate negative in order to attract borrowers. The supply has come from both Libya and Greece. These corrupted bankers require more gold, thus more wars and more victim nations. The system has turned to extreme abuse in order to keep a lid on the gold price, or better yet, to avert a string of Lehman-type financial firm failures in Europe. In the process, a Jackass forecast has begun to come to pass. The paper gold price (dictated by the bizarre COMEX market) is diverging from the physical gold price (determined by actual large private purchases). In late November, a great reliable global gold trader source assured that despite a posted $1740 gold price, the true physical price paid for large gold bullion purchases in the private market was more like $1950 per ounce!! That is a $200 price divergence, or 12% higher. The COMEX has been drained of gold inventory. The MF Global event was motivated by the desire to avoid meeting delivery notices. Instead, JPMorgan stole the accounts demanding delivery, a neat trick fully permitted by the Syndicate that controls the USGovt, the US regulatory bodies, and the US law enforcement. The lawsuits will be full of drama and intrigue. The integrity of the US financial system has been exposed, this time in full glory that even financial news anchors cannot deny.
Here is the smoking gun. Days after the MF Global bankruptcy was filed, and a vast array of deliveries in silver were expunged. The silver vault inventory tells the story of the crime. JPMorgan simply converted what should have been MF Global client silver into JPM licensed vaults. Review the timeline. MF Global declared bankruptcy on October 31st. About a week later the CME began reporting that 1.4 million ounces of Registered silver was unaccounted for and unavailable for delivery, including 627,182 ounces from non-cartel banks. About 7 to 10 days afterwards, JPMorgan suddenly reported a deposit of 613,738 ounces into Eligible vaults. Exactly seven days later, JPMorgan adjusted this silver into Registered vaults. JPMorgan had not seen one significant silver deposit in months prior to this bountiful day. Great work on the part of the Silver Doctors to decipher the story. The charade continues before the USCongress. They are told of claims that investigators are searching avidly for the missing funds. They know where the funds are, in JPMorgan London accounts. They told us they were avidly looking for Madoff Funds too. They know where those funds are too, in the Land of Yodels. Reckoning is coming.
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| | | 77 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 15:40
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Not sure what happened to my #75. Reposting:
It should have been lower and then they wouldn't be bankrupt
It would help more, I think, if they weren't part of the global economy. They they wouldn't have been subject to the global economic downturn.
I echo bili's comment, and suggest you look beyond cartoons and crackpot websites only interested in honing political knives. While casting blame on the Left might make you feel good, your credibility is for shiite now, after years of sugary-filled conservative media consumption.
Interested in Spain's economy? Edward Hugh is one of my main sources [I know, I know--only a deep-in-the-weeds policy geek will have a "favorite Spanish economic news source."]
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| | | 78 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 18:21
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Put a giant gold star on that post, B7. Outstanding.
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| | | 79 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 19:29
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He describes loosely a federation, where Goldman Sachs sits in the thrones of Europe, in a quasi debt failure receivership role. [power elite rapidly extracting the wealth of the nations - B] Unfortunately, the pressure on the Euro Central Bank to purchase Italian, Spanish, and Greek Govt Bonds has put its balance sheet in total ruins. It is the buyer of last resort for fast falling toxic bonds. The only central bank more ruined is the US Federal Reserve. --- expects a depression to hit Southern Europe, and for one nation to exit the Euro Monetary Union next year. The process has no rules. The day after exit, the nation will suffer ruin of their banking system, forcing a rapid nationalization in a reverted currency. The end result will be a sovereign debt default and pure chaos across the continent. The coming depression will lay waste to the USDollar, the British Pound, and probably the Yen too. All fiat currencies will endure a powerful stress test, but based in reality, not a charade. As soon as any group of big Euro banks enter a failure and bust, the cascade of contagion will act like a fast moving virus to destroy many Western banks. We will then see a repeat of history with 20 Lehmans in bank failures, if not sooner. --- The Euro Central Bank averted 10 to 20 Lehmans with the extended Dollar Swap Facility provided by the USFed. Money is almost free. The volume of money grants is enormous, likely never repaid. Witness the effect of the central banks showing reluctance to enter into bond purchases. The system breaks down in powerful manner. The European Central Bank said demand for three-month US$-based loans surged after it announced a broader Dollar Swap Facility for European usage. The USFed cut the cost of the financing from an ultra-low 1.0% to an almost free 0.5% rate. The USFed discount window was made cheaper for foreign banks than US banks (who pay 75 basis points), an indication of the destruction. Rumors persist that a cool $1 trillion has been made available. Five other central banks participated in the coordinated move which included the Bank of Japan. The Frankfurt-based EuroCB immediately made loans for $50.7 billion to 34 big teetering Euro banks on December 1st...The borrowing done at the Discount Window catapulted by 127-fold, from a paltry $395 million to $50.7 billion in a sudden move. --- The USFed was appealed to by the EuroCB so as to prevent an estimated 20 Lehmans from occurring overnight, as in multiple bank failures from a flash event. He went on to mention that a flash event is inevitable, which the central bankers are powerless to stop. It will come in time, with an unknown trigger event that lights a fuse. Each new $trillion credit line buys less time and covers fewer obligations. --- The Wall Street banks filled a void in providing liquidity in USDollar denomination to the big European banks. In doing so, the New York banks have tied themselves with a lethal financial tether to Europe. The London banks had already been connected. The connection lies in the shadowy derivative market. It used to be kept in the shadows since the contracts provided the majority of bank profit, and even supported the artificial rates in the bond market to a great extent. Now the derivative market is kept in the shadows because the big banks are mutually destroyed by insurance awards after failures. A little publicized trend was put into effect in the middle months of 2011. The big Wall Street banks filled a void. The inter-bank lending in Europe came to a halt in response to the sovereign debt crisis, a euphemism for the Southern European Govt bond market collapse. The big US banks offered a lifeline in the form of leveraged liquidity based upon unregulated derivatives whose notional value is in the $trillions. In doing so, the Anglo banks created a mutual risk factor in the umbilical cord of shadowy structures. If a handful of big European banks go bust, the contagion will be felt instantly (as in overnight) in New York and London. To claim that the US is insulated from Europe is nonsense. To claim that the European distress makes the US more attractive is patently false. Fifty major financial firms are tied around the necks with a common thick rope, weighed down by insolvency, going down together. Matters are so bad in Europe, that most banks have shut down the inter-bank lending, [if this doesn't ring a bell, it should - B]thus isolating the weakest. Huge funds placed at the Euro Central Bank signal the failures. The big European banks are soon to fail. They distrust each other. --- Big European banks on the brink of ruin, the next Lehmans, are leasing gold in order to raise cash and stave off failure. It is simple math. The great enablers are the central banks. Cases exist of multiple sellers of the same gold bullion bars, a common trick made famous by the GLD exchange traded fund, the SPDR Gold (dis)Trust. All [gold - B] leasing is done without regulation, like the derivative market. Neilson concludes, "Here is where we come upon a seeming paradox with respect to the recent explosion of gold leasing. We know that the banksters have virtually run out of their own bullion, as the evidence is absolutely conclusive. The same Western central banks which were openly selling 500 tons of gold per year onto the market every year have now all totally ceased their gold sales. They have no more gold, or at least they had no more gold." The Washington Accord guided official gold sales, a completed process. The physical gold price is diverging from the false paper price directed by the COMEX and guardians like JPMorgan. If truth be known, over 40 thousand tons of gold bullion has been leased and sold that does not exist. In the coming years, reconciliation will assist in sending the gold price much higher, toward $5000 per ounce. As time passes, more criminal actions will be visible in the open, like MF Global. --- B - Let's save some money and leave Ft. Knox unguarded. It's been empty so long that...
If you have gold which isn't physically in your hand, figure you don't have gold. --- Pointless meaningless exercise in futility is seen in the big European summit meetings. They are wasting their efforts, biding time, deceiving the public, and supporting the bankers in last ditch attempts to salvage what cannot be saved. The sovereign bond market is loaded with rollover interactive explosive devices that will continue to explode without relief. The politicians offer no solutions, as Merkel and Sarkozy are the only members meeting in public eye, yet neither has any power left. They meet and sign deals only to be contradicted and countermanded later by the bankers with power and court judges reciting law. The German leaders at the summit meetings are all for public show, even financial market management. None has any power left. None is involved in the new alliance. The informed observer need not follow what they decide upon anymore, because in 2 to 3 weeks their pact will all vaporize into nothingness. Markets are impressed for minutes and no more. Witness their last several accords, none of which endured. The movie keeps repeating like Ground Hog's Day. They cannot solve the ultimate entrenched problem of toxic sovereign bonds within the PIIGS nations of Southern Europe. They have no tools in their medicine chest, only phony money and more debt, even silly new Uber-Bonds. They actively avoid putting their decisions to a public referendum vote, since the people would vote down any further bank welfare in the form of more bond redemptions or bailouts. No evidence of democracy can be seen. Politicians debate, dispute, then make accords, but their communiques are common graffiti. --- The USGovt cannot permit a rise from 0% in capital cost, since it is running $1.5 trillion annual deficits. Normal cost of money would result in hundreds of $billions in higher debt service costs. The United States is trapped by 0%, not stimulated by it. As time passes, more capital will be retired, more speculation will be the norm, and healthy capital formation will become a mirage. The system will hurtle toward systemic failure.
The USGovt debt ratio is about to reach 100%. The once powerful beacon of freedom and juggernaut of financial prowess looks like yet another PIIGS nation. The debt monetization is orders of magnitude greater than admitted, part of the policy landscape, a QE To Infinity. More debt downgrades are coming. In early 2009 the US populace was told that the USGovt budget deficit would return under $1 billion. It did not. According to the Jackass forecast, it zoomed up to $1.5 trillion and stayed there for consecutive years. The deficits persist chronically without remedy in the $1500 billion range annually, a staggering 43% ratio of the total budget. The other debt ratio is the cumulative debt versus the USEconomic size as measured by the Gross Domestic Product. The United States Govt is soon to hit the 100% debt mark versus GDP. The pair of debt ratios is typical of PIIGS nations in deep trouble. [we had best not hear anymore snickering when comparing profligate Washington to Greece, and if I hear one more person say "yeah but when expressed in percent GNP it's not so bad" I'm gonna lose it. - B] The profound risk to the US financial system is masked by the USFed activity. They are monetizing 10 times as much as they admit, and the Quantitative Easing programs never were interrupted. The Operation Twist was a grand deception to conceal coverage of what foreign central banks wished to dump. Look for another debt downgrade of the USGovt in coming months, after the Q4 shows a ripe $1 trillion in added deficits.
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| | | 80 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 19:30
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[more from B7's best link ever]
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| | | 81 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 19:58
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Save yer snarky 'chicken little' comments and find me some space in the sand, all you ostriches. Time for some serious time in 'God's Playlists' trance from Phengway.
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| | | 82 | biliruben
ID: 34820210 Thu, Dec 22, 2011, 06:07
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Hey, you've found the Golden Magic Eight Ball!
"Reply hazy, try again"
"Outlook not so good"
"My sources say no"
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| | | 83 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 22, 2011, 10:05
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Heh.
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| | | 84 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Thu, Dec 22, 2011, 14:48
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"Krugman is the biggest source of deliberately misleading economic disinformation in the western world."
That's quite a serious charge to throw around without support, and odd coming from someone who, judging by his incessant whining about money, bubblesurfed himself into pauperdom.
I leave to the reader to decide whether to listen to the noble laureate who has been clearly and consistently predicting economic effects with uncanny accuracy for more than a decade, or a whineypants who can't seem to make a living in the lowest tax, richest country the world has ever seen.
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| | | 85 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 22, 2011, 19:28
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Any economist who claims Europe isn't in trouble caused by unsustainable socialist spending is practicing politics, not economist skills.
I'll put some effort into getting out of this hole after Obama is gone and there's actually an opportunity for business to thrive. Right now I am in the 'simplify your life' mode. And way to jump on people in a depression. No one loves the downtrodden and poor like a liberal. (*/sarc)
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| | | 86 | biliruben
ID: 34820210 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 09:44
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Simplify your life is good. I'm trying to do the same. But challenging yourself at the same time is better. There are a thousand ways to make a living in this country, and hunkering down and blaming "the man" is the only way not to.
Krugman spelled out how this whole scenario would go down upon formation of the EU.
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| | | 87 | Tree
ID: 41512710 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 10:28
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I'll put some effort into getting out of this hole after Obama is gone and there's actually an opportunity for business to thrive.
have this conversation with big business, and they'll tell you they're doing just fine, thank you very much. one of the biggest disappointments of this presidency to me is Obama's kowtowing to big business, even if i do accept that in some ways, it's necessary.
i love your criticism of liberal for blaming everyone else and not taking control of the situation, when in reality, that's EXACTLY what you're doing.
i've been unemployed or underemployed for three years, but i never stopped trying, because giving up is for losers.
i finally got a job that pays me what i'm worth, even if it's not in the field i want. i've also got another gig lined up in the field i want, but that's 6 to 9 months away. in the meantime, i'll do what it takes to get by and make ends meet, and hiding in a hole is NOT the way to get that done.
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| | | 88 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 13:03
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Neither of those things required a capital investment. I'm not looking to work for someone else. I'm just going to get my monthly bills as depression-proof as possible and then invest the rest when there is a point to investing.
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| | | 89 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 14:51
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99.9% of political theater has no effect on our day to day lives.
If you are paralyzed by who the president is, you are making a massive mistake.
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| | | 90 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 15:19
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Stopped by my gold dealer to do a quick fact check on the ramble In 79.
A 1 oz eagle was spot plus their standard 6%.
I assume the rest of the post is equal nonsense.
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| | | 91 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 20:33
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question: Many, specifically form the "right", call for an impending calamity due to the Fed Givt debt approaching annual GDP. (Debt to incme ratio of 1:1) yet, they call for the fed to run more like a business or household.
Lets examine that for a moment...
Households with 50k annual income, typically have 150k mortgages. This puts the debt at 3:1, assuming ZERO other household debt.
Having never run a business requiring large investnments in captial equipment, ir I ran an insurance agency and not a manufaturing facility. Few computers, couple phone lines, few desks, conference table and chairs...postage was my big monthly bill. Anyway, I have no figures for corporate debt vs income, though I imagine they are there to be found.
Point is, in carryng on like Chicken Little, due to the national dent approaching a 1:1 ratio vs income; isnt there a HUGE amount of disingenuous BS in the doing of such, when at the same time you call for the govt to be run more like a household? (Which runs at a debt ratio of 3:1 or worse AS A NORM)
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| | | 92 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 20:37
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Its more than that, sarge.
In order to get the 100% ratio, they add in the state debt to the federal debt. Then they imply that this is all unsustainable because of deficit spending, the willingness of the federal government to print money, etc.
But states don't run deficits--they can't. So in order to make their point (which appears to be "Be very afraid!!") they add in debt carried, and budgeted, at the state level.
I don't that, at some point, we should be concerned about debt. But adding in debt at other levels that are budgeted and being paid for by states not running a deficit seems disingenuous, at best.
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| | | 93 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Fri, Dec 23, 2011, 22:31
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Stopped by my gold dealer to do a quick fact check on the ramble In 79.
Why would you even have a gold dealer if you think it's such a bad idea? Plus you could have called or checked on the internet.
A 1 oz eagle was spot plus their standard 6%.
From the article:
The paper gold price (dictated by the bizarre COMEX market) is diverging from the physical gold price (determined by actual large private purchases). In late November, a great reliable global gold trader source assured that despite a posted $1740 gold price, the true physical price paid for large gold bullion purchases in the private market was more like $1950 per ounce!! That is a $200 price divergence, or 12% higher.
So you think one ounce is a large purchase? And then dismiss the entire article based on that wrong assumption.
I assume the rest of the post is equal nonsense.
You assume what you want. The article is not meant for you. That would just be a waste of time, based on your prior posts. The article was posted to explain the EU failure anyways. A typical liberal ploy to claim to find one thing wrong in a long article and then dismiss the whole thing.
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| | | 94 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 14:42
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I get it. It's hard when those hunks of metal in your basement start looking less shiny every day. If you can pin your hope and blame on some conspiracy, it feels a bit better.
Hopefully you are well diversified.
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| | | 95 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 08:15
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You don't know what you're talking about. I don't even have a basement. Something about the red clay. Nobody has a basement around here. So I hid it in my underwear drawer.
Not that I have much to diversify, but our retirement money does not have a direct option for precious metals. They forced me to diversify. But, you're right, nobody should put all their money into one thing.
Back to the EU failure. Why are we bailing out these socialist, deadbeat, European losers. They never paid us back from WWII.
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| | | 96 | bibA
ID: 48627713 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 08:37
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....deadbeat, European losers. They never paid us back from WWII.
You seem to be implying that the US should not have initiated the Marshal Plan. After the war, Europe was devastated. After all, that was where the war was waged. Industry lay in ruins, and food shortages were more than common. European nations were broke after exhausting their money to fight the war.
Do you seriously believe that if we had not helped Europe rebuild and recover its strength, that Communism would not have spread even farther west? In your eyes, would the world have been a better place if we had ignored Europe's plight after the fighting was finished?
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| | | 97 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 08:47
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All I said was they never paid us back. One of them did, though. Sweden or one of those countries. They were supposed to pay us back. As I recall they were loaned the money to do those good things, not given the money.
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| | | 98 | bibA
ID: 48627713 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 09:18
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The Marshal Plan consisted of grants in which repayment was not called for. In addition, billions of dollars were given as long term loans, all of which were repaid. I don't have dates, but it is my understanding that Germany made their last payment in 1971.
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| | | 100 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 11:26
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All I said was they never paid us back
You also said,
Why are we bailing out these socialist, deadbeat, European losers.
The words deadbeat and losers kind of puts a damper on discussing the economic situation in the EU and it's relationship with our economy.
I've never been to Europe, so I can't really comment on the character of its citizens, but it's my understanding that Germans are industrious and frugal, as are the the socialist societies of Scandanavia.
One would hope that after a history of genocides, social engineering and devastating warfare, we could move beyond branding entire continents and their societies with such demeaning and dehumanizing descriptions.
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| | | 101 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 16:56
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So it would encourage a recrudescent nazi menace if we were honest about mandatory early retirement at 60, the 35-hour work week, the 40 days a year sprawled out on Ibiza beaches?
Oh the inhumanity of honest discussion.
Someone light off a flare so the civility police can find this thread.
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| | | 102 | bibA
ID: 48627713 Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 20:03
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I guess post 101 is obviously just the final word....on something or other....
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| | | 103 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 09:04
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I think bailing the EU out is a bad idea, and y'all think it is a good idea. We'll have to see what happens. We have enough problems here.
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| | | 104 | bibA
ID: 48627713 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 09:21
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I can understand your position in post 103, just don't agree with your rationale that Europe is full of losers who don't repay their debts. If that were your sole concern, would you rethink your position? Don't you think that a strong, stable Europe is in the best interests of the US?
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| | | 105 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 09:25
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I'll retract the loser and deadbeat comments.....for now. Although, The country of Greece will not be paying back their debts anytime soon IMO.
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| | | 106 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 09:40
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#103: I'm not altogether certain that anyone here has expressed an opinion either way on bailing out the EU, at least by the US.
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| | | 107 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 12:48
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It doesn't matter what we've expressed by vote or here in the forum. Our Fed is bailing out the EU by the trillions. I think it's at 16 trillion and counting.
Ron Paul for secretary of the treasury no matter who get's elected.
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| | | 108 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 13:19
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Won't affect the Fed either way. Meanwhile, the numbers we're talking about (which are credit swaps instead of loans) are tiny compared to the big picture--less than $8 billion.
This is like you owing $10,000 in credit card debt and getting "bailed out" with a $100 Amazon gift card.
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| | | 109 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 13:43
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Do you remember back when the Fed was audited recently it was exposed that the Fed had loaned Europe @ 15 trillion?
Do you remember that the Fed is currently loaning a trillion dollars to european banks which no longer have enuff trust to loan to each other?
Calling that $8 billion is an absurd whitewash.
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| | | 110 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 13:46
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You appear to misunderstand the nature of the transactions, which are short term credit swaps. Once they are paid down they no longer exist.
Here's a Wall Street Journal article you might want to look through.
This article is probably right up your alley. Difference being, he's got the numbers right:
The Fed had more than $600 billion of currency swaps on its books in the fall of 2008. Those draws were largely paid down by January 2010. As recently as a few weeks ago, the amount under the swap renewal agreement announced last summer was $2.4 billion. For the week ending Dec. 14, however, the amount jumped to $54 billion. For the week ending Dec. 21, the total went up by a little more than $8 billion. The aforementioned $33 billion three-month loan was not picked up because it was only booked by the ECB on Dec. 22, falling outside the Fed's reporting week. Notably, the Bank of Japan drew almost $5 billion in the most recent week. Could a bailout of Japanese banks be afoot? (All data come from the Federal Reserve Board H.4.1. release, the New York Fed's Swap Operations report, and the ECB website.)
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| | | 111 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:20
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What was revealed in the audit was startling: $16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland. From the period between December 2007 and June 2010, the Federal Reserve had secretly bailed out many of the world’s banks, corporations, and governments. The Federal Reserve likes to refer to these secret bailouts as an all-inclusive loan program, but virtually none of the money has been returned and it was loaned out at 0% interest. Why the Federal Reserve had never been public about this or even informed the United States Congress about the $16 trillion dollar bailout is obvious — the American public would have been outraged to find out that the Federal Reserve bailed out foreign banks while Americans were struggling to find jobs.
To place $16 trillion into perspective, remember that GDP of the United States is only $14.12 trillion. The entire national debt of the United States government spanning its 200+ year history is “only” $14.5 trillion. The budget that is being debated so heavily in Congress and the Senate is “only” $3.5 trillion. Take all of the outrage and debate over the $1.5 trillion deficit into consideration, and swallow this Red pill: There was no debate about whether $16,000,000,000,000 would be given to failing banks and failing corporations around the world.
“This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you’re-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.” – Bernie Sanders(I-VT), who knows socialism.
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| | | 112 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:28
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That was the Alan Grayson, Ron Paul amendment which forced that first ever partial audit of the Fed. Something useful from Grayson and me agreeing with Bernie Sanders.
Take off the right/left blinders, PD.
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| | | 113 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:37
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Boldwin, if I loan you a dollar, and you pay it back the next day, and then next week I loan you a dollar, and you pay it back the next day, and next week I loan you a dollar, and you pay it back the next day... how much money have I loaned you? It's, I suppose, technically correct to say "I loaned you three dollars!!!!!", but it also misrepresents the situation -- just as it would misrepresent the situation to say "I've run up $11,000 in credit card charges this year" when I've got like a $2,000 card limit, because I pay for the groceries and gas and a couple bills and then auto pay the credit card company each month. At no point have we had even 1% of $16 trillion dollars loaned out, just as I have at no point had $11,000 borrowed from the credit card company.
This is pretty tangential to your main points, which seem to be "should we be loaning this stuff out at all?" (probably yes) and "shouldn't this stuff at least be accounted for transparently" (absolutely it should) -- but it's sloppy messaging like that that tends to detract from your main point among people intelligent enough to see that one obvious misrepresentation and wonder what else you might be misrepresenting.
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| | | 114 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:40
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Regarding those credit swaps you claim are paid off and I and my sources claim we will never see repayment on,The ECB balance sheet is now up to $3.5 trillion USD. Tho I can't see thru the paywall. I believe that was the same article you linked to. Didn't care to quote that part?
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| | | 115 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:44
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If you can't see through the paywall, are we to assume you're just sort of taking some right wing blogger's word for what's in the article while accusing PD of doing some horrible thing (that you do like twice a week yourself by the way)?
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| | | 116 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:53
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If you read my link I think you will find it matches PD's link word for word.
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| | | 117 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 16:58
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Actually I've been drawing from two links and one quotes the O'Driscoll author word for word and one quotes him by name.
http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-the-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillion-in-secret-bailouts
http://seekingalpha.com/article/316512-a-thinly-veiled-bail
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| | | 118 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 17:21
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Re: 116 -- at no point in the (non-paywall) article does it say what the ECB balance sheet is. That's sort of my point. I was quite curious where you were drawing that information from, because it simply wasn't there (and thus it seemed pretty rude to accuse someone else of not quoting what they apparently couldn't see themselves).
I do appreciate the follow up links, which I do intend to read more fully (and yes, I know one of them is the same link in 111).
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| | | 119 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 17:47
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"The ECB balance sheet is now up to $3.5 trillion USD."
That quote does not appear in that Driscoll article.
Hard to tell, without context, what that refers to. There is no indication that the balance sheet is total owed to all European banks, or what. My guess it is money owed by the various European central banks to the ECB--the Fed, as far as I can tell, has never been owed this much in credit swaps or loans by the ECB at any point.
Actually, I just found the quote, from a Russ Winter blog post. While he makes the same alarming points about the Fed "bailing out" the ECB, the $3.5 trillion is the balance sheet for all debt. It certainly isn't debt owned to the Fed.
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| | | 120 | Boldwin
ID: 321121173 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 17:53
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"Since QE2, the Fed has gone back to dealing only with the PDs"
Figures
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| | | 122 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 20:42
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#120: I've noticed more emails from them lately...
:)
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| | | 123 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Mon, Jan 16, 2012, 08:48
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One of the few credible liberal journalists around, Nicholas Kristof takes on the impossible task of pushing back against the meme that 'the USA turning into Europe is a terrible thing'.
Ridiculous on it's face, especially 'in these times', but he does gift wrap this dog with style and panache.
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| | | 124 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Mon, Jan 16, 2012, 12:29
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121...I am sore tempted B7, to buy you a beer for that one. How did we agree on something, and I missed it? :)
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| | | 125 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 14:00
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I'll take a Heineken. Cheers.
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| | | 126 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 23:42
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When the World Bank tells you to prepare for the worst, don't waste time shooting the messenger, just do it.“If you live in Greece, you’re in a depression; if you live in Spain, you’re in a depression; if you live in Portugal or Ireland, you’re in a depression,” Celente said. “If you live in Lithuania, you’re running to the bank to get your money out of the bank as the bank runs go on. It’s a depression. Hungary, there’s a depression, and much of Eastern Europe, Romania, Bulgaria. And there are a lot of depressions going on [already].”
So will all of this economic trouble eventually spread to the United States?
Of course it will.
The global economy is more interconnected today than ever. Back in 2008 the financial crisis that started on Wall Street ended up devastating economies all over the planet. The same thing will happen during this next great financial crisis.
Only this time the U.S. is in a much weaker position.
So what are we going to do the next time large numbers of banks fail and unemployment skyrockets?
Where are we going to get the money to bail out all of those banks and to take care of all of those newly unemployed people? Soft land that.
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| | | 127 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 00:07
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So will all of this economic trouble eventually spread to the United States?
What the hell do you mean by that? Hell, it STARTED here, courtesy of the Graham-Leach-Bliley Act. That barn door opening, led the way to where we wound up in 2008. The collapse here in 2008, led Europe to where it is. It isnt going to spread to here, it started here.
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| | | 128 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 01:49
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When America catches a cold the rest of the world gets pneumonia.
If Europe dies from pneumonia does America also?
Yes America's problems pushed an insolvent socialist Europe into bankruptcy...which will rebound to bankrupt an insolvent half-socialist America.
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| | | 129 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 03:22
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Part of the problem in Europe (and the biggest part of their ongoing economic problems) is that they are being forced into doing exactly what the Tea Party wanted for the United States.
Luckily for the US the Dems were able to beat back most of the short-sighted "kill the handouts and lower the debt" mantra that the Tea Party suddenly work up spouting.
We're in far better shape than nearly all the European countries because we concentrated on keeping people working rather than cutting debt willy nilly.
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| | | 130 | Boldwin
ID: 49030519 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 04:36
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Ah...if only Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Italy had borrowed more. Then they'd be solvent.
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| | | 131 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 11:22
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Our economy Boldwin, is CONSUMER driven. No consumption, no economic avctivity. With the American populace unable to consume, the Givt has to. Fail to, and our system collapses in on itself. Contrary to GOP claims, we spent our way out of the Great Depression, and Obama SPENT our way into avoidance, of another depression. Like or not, that is the simple truth.
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| | | 132 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 11:47
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If the consumer driven economy is so awesome, why doesn't everybody do it?
If the populace does not have money to consume, how do they have money to pay taxes so that the government can consume?
You have it totally backwards. That post is classic, don't ever delete it.
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| | | 133 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 12:00
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You argue that th epublic had disposable income? Then explain, the rampant foreclosures, auto repos, BK filings, etc etc etc.
Apply some simple logic vs blind adherance to an ideologic line and you can draw only one conclusion. That which I laid out above.
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| | | 134 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Sun, Jan 29, 2012, 12:25
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#130: I'm not sure if you even realize how badly you missed to point. we'll just leave that little post up there.
Meanwhile, check out what England has done and how well they are doing.
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| | | 137 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Fri, Feb 24, 2012, 02:18
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Greece has a new tourist slogan..... Come see the new ruins.
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| | | 139 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Wed, May 16, 2012, 21:20
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Greek depositors withdrew 700 million euros ($900 million) from the nation's local banks recently, said President Karolos Papoulias, though the exact timing of the transfer was unclear.
Citing a conversation he had with Greek Central Bank Governor George Provopoulos, Papoulias said "that the strength of banks is very weak right now."...
Attempts to form a government in Greece collapsed on Tuesday, jolting financial markets at the prospect that leftists opposed to the terms of an EU bailout could sweep to victory in a June election and nudge the euro zone crisis into a dangerous new phase... The 'vote yourself other people's money' crowd have been winning elections lately in Europe and they had already run out of other people's money. The European Crash which will drag America down with it, just got closer.
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| | | 141 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Wed, May 16, 2012, 22:09
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your going to blow your mind when you read Krugman on Greece. I think you'll have a hard time believing that he largely believes Greece to be a huge disaster in the making for the Euro zone.
Of course, you are too busy looking to blame this on Democrats to do very deep on this, but there you go.
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| | | 142 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Thu, May 17, 2012, 10:43
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1) So obvious even Krugman noticed.
2) More blame on globalists than liberals per se tho obviously european liberals are zigging every time they should be zagging. Always willing to believe you can spend your way out of debt. Sheesh.
3) Even more blame on the same hedge fund managers and derivative buyers who didn't learn a thing the first time. If anyone can see any genuine new protections built into those markets explain it to me. Those are the real anchors that will drag us down with Europe.
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| | | 143 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 84371713 Thu, May 17, 2012, 14:40
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Just catching up with this thread, when I came across this quote, posted in a derisive manner: the 35-hour work week, the 40 days a year sprawled out on Ibiza beaches...
What, exactly, would be wrong with THAT? Sounds like the old world has that figured pretty nicely, and if that means I can't get the newest igadget the day it comes out on my overextended credit simply to keep up with the shmuck in the next cubicle, that's juuuuust fine in my book.
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| | | 144 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 84371713 Thu, May 17, 2012, 14:52
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And I just reached the end and post 142: Even more blame on the same hedge fund managers and derivative buyers who didn't learn a thing the first time. If anyone can see any genuine new protections built into those markets explain it to me. Those are the real anchors that will drag us down with Europe. Are we to infer that there's not enough regulation of the free markets for you B?
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| | | 145 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Thu, May 17, 2012, 22:21
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What, exactly, would be wrong with THAT? Sounds like the old world has that figured pretty nicely, and if that means I can't get the newest igadget the day it comes out on my overextended credit simply to keep up with the shmuck in the next cubicle, that's juuuuust fine in my book.
"Lazy cheezemonkeys." - Homer Simpson
Are we to infer that there's not enough regulation of the free markets for you B?
Certainly true in the derivatives market because those vehicles fail when they are needed the most and they are in effect huge 'too big to fail' institutional promises which add up to more cash than exists on the planet if and when they all crash.
At the very least regulators should not accept derivatives as security against failure and the derivatives market needs clearinghouses and oversight comparable to other markets. Something congress has not gotten around to because the members of congress don't understand these arcane corners.
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| | | 146 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Thu, May 17, 2012, 22:29
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Well B, it seems that studies (and there have been many) seem to indicate that work beyond 40 hrs week, is in fact COUNTER productive.
link
I know, that runs counter to your rightwing BS, but truth is truth.
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| | | 147 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, May 18, 2012, 10:28
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Better save post 145.
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| | | 148 | soxzeitgeist
ID: 31441189 Fri, May 18, 2012, 10:41
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You have, in Homer Simpson, found the one ubermensch whose logic I cannot argue with.
That said, I am honestly (and pleasantly) surprised by your call for more regulation of ANY market. Maybe there's hope for the flowers after all!
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| | | 149 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Fri, May 18, 2012, 13:17
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In this case it's not so much calling for more. regulation. It's calling for regulation period. Basically it seems that the regulators and congressmen have said, "I don't understand derivatives, none of my staffers can get his head around them, why don't you guys just write your own rules or lack of rules and we'll look the other way."
If it was just hedge fund speculators gambling away their own money I could maybe live with that state of affairs, but instead we've got financial institutions relying on these time bombs for their legitimacy as credit-worthy in a crisis. It's madness applied to the entire financial system.
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| | | 150 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, May 18, 2012, 13:45
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The ironic things is that derivatives were designed to avoid regulation, there is a case to be made for the idea that had there been less regulations derivatives would have never been invented and while ignoring the possible benefits/cost of more regulation any new regulation will only bring on the next generation of derivatives. And, this is problem with regulation of the financial markets is that when you take a room full of hyper smart people and throw money at them they are going out game a bunch of politicians trying to create regulations.
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| | | 151 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Fri, May 18, 2012, 13:49
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hyper smart? Finding new ways to lose billions and nearly destroy a national economy is "hyper smart"?
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| | | 152 | Frick
ID: 14082314 Fri, May 18, 2012, 15:33
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Finding the loopholes to make themselves money is smart. The wreckage they left behind not so much, but do you think they really care after they've cashed out?
I remember a college prof telling us that they way to make a ton of money was to find something that wasn't regulated, exploit it before they made laws and walk away. This around the time that WorldCom was imploding. WorldCom didn't break any current laws. The same is true of Enron, they didn't break any laws or regulations, they were exploring and pushing the boundries, but the traders didn't do anything technically wrong. Morally they were awful people, but I doubt they are to trouble in their mansions.
Boikin's point is that the regulation of conventional investments pushed them into unregulated areas that they probably didn't understand fully, at least not all of the indirect connections and results.
Until we make banks into just banks again, and separate banks/trading/investing, this is going to keep happening.
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| | | 153 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Fri, May 18, 2012, 15:52
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Which Frick, goes directly to what I have said all along: Graham-Leach-Bliley and the recission of Glass-Steagall; made the crash possible. The removal of the conflict of interest prohibition between Investment Bankers serving on the board of deposit banks for ex, moved us almost inevitably into the realm that led to the crash.
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| | | 154 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Fri, May 18, 2012, 16:16
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Re 151: If Einstein were around today he wouldn't have been patent clerk he would probably would have been working in fiance and instead of discovering the equations for relativity he would have been writing the pricing algorithm for derivatives.
Until we make banks into just banks again, and separate banks/trading/investing, this is going to keep happening.
well not necessarily since the first bail out was not a bank but a hedge fund.
before the bank bailouts there was Long-Term Capital Management.
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| | | 155 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Fri, May 18, 2012, 18:02
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And before ltcm, there were the savings and loans. After Reagan deregulated them.
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| | | 156 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Fri, May 18, 2012, 18:04
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Sarge#146
What are you talking about over 40 hr work weeks for? Europeans are at no risk of getting anywhere near 40 hrs work weeks and 48 weeks a year working.
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| | | 157 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Fri, May 18, 2012, 18:22
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Because B, you were lambasting their proposed 35 hr week. It is in fact, a good idea, supported by US studies.
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| | | 158 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Fri, May 18, 2012, 19:51
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You have a study showing that 35 is better than a 40 hr work week. Riiiight. Even if you could find one, a preponderance of evidence?
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| | | 160 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Fri, May 18, 2012, 20:10
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B? Read much? The article I linked, refers to multiple studies done here i the US, that shows that work beyond 40 hrs is in fact counter-productive. You lambast the Europeans for wanting a 35 hr work week. I doubt there is much diff between 35 and 40 hrs, in terms of productivity. But overtime, is counter-productive and has been proven to be such.
Does everything need a link? Should I link to studies indicating that if you cease to inhale/exhale, it would be detrimental to your life?
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| | | 161 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Sun, May 20, 2012, 23:38
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And it was such a small domino too. Only 2% of the EU.
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| | | 162 | Controlled Bursts
ID: 41613226 Mon, May 21, 2012, 06:49
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Sarge33rd has a point about the 40 hour work week, but its so much more than that. Its the 10 days vacation, lame 8 holidays off, and the sick time allowed in the era of dual income households. Unless if a spouse is a hedge fund manager its a given that if you want real financial security, kids, and the lifestyle your parents had when only one of them was working, both people today need to be working.
Do any of you have wives where you both work?
If you have kids you know that you wind up using a couple days per year just because they get sick and can't go to school. Then the cable goes and you wait during the 8-4 window. I don't know about you guys, but when I finally get to the point where I can take a week off, I'm so fricking exhausted from working the six months straight in between time off (except for the couple token federally mandated holidays wow thanks) that the last thing I want to do is tolerate an airport, a hotel, and a thousand other people with their kids.
All of that creates stress on society which winds up costing the system in the form of healthcare. Stress is a real killer. You can lower the cost of living if people were allowed to just chill out.
Federally mandate 4 weeks vacation minimum, one week sick time, and increase the holidays to a minimum of 12.
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| | | 163 | Razor
ID: 551031157 Mon, May 21, 2012, 10:00
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It's a sad state of affairs where we've turned into a society that values going into work and producing things more than our personal happiness and spending time with friends and family and exploring the world. The Europeans have this one right.
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| | | 164 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Mon, May 21, 2012, 10:19
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Give them an inch and they'll turn this country into Greece.
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| | | 165 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Mon, May 21, 2012, 10:34
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My wife worked at the same place for 37 years. She got 4 or 5 weeks of vacation. 2 weeks is entry level.
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| | | 166 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Mon, May 21, 2012, 10:42
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depends on where B7. In more than a few industries, paid vacation doesnt exist at all. Most commission paid positions, time away from work = time with zero income.
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| | | 167 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, May 21, 2012, 10:59
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It's a sad state of affairs where we've turned into a society that values going into work and producing things more than our personal happiness and spending time with friends and family and exploring the world. The Europeans have this one right.
while I agree with the idea of 35 hour work week and more holidays historically your statement above is just false. Nothing in society has turned right now average hours worked per week as an all time low in America, so if you like maybe we should turn back to a time when the 50 hour week was standard.
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| | | 168 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Mon, May 21, 2012, 11:09
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avg hrs worked by nr of working age Americans may be at a low, but only because the nr of unemployed Americans is at a high.
Rather than be a harpie, perhaps you could acknowledge that what many of us want, is for a return to a single income supporting a household thus allowing the spouse to be there to raise kids. One can only wonder, if that would not result n a drop in crime and a rise in HS graduation and college attendance.
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| | | 169 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Mon, May 21, 2012, 11:33
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average hours worked per week as an all time low in America
Among those who work (which are, of course, the vast majority of adults in this country), the opposite is true. Americans have been working long hours for some time.
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| | | 170 | Boldwin
ID: 3944693 Mon, May 21, 2012, 12:40
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Sarge#168
Where is the feminist apology to women for condemning them to the workplace and estrangement from their kids? This is usually presented as a triumph, one they'd like to complete.
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| | | 171 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Mon, May 21, 2012, 13:14
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Hahaha. An apology for giving women the choice to work. Nice.
I revise my estimate of Boldwin's "golden period" backward, from the 1950's to the 1890's.
Here's the thing about freedom: It means you have to live with ideas that you despise.
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| | | 172 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, May 21, 2012, 13:50
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re 168 and 169, this is not a recent results the numbers have been trending down constantly since the turn of century.
It should also be noted Europeans have traded standard of living for those less hours worked. You will not see many McMansions in Europe. If you wanted to live in small 50's house drive one car own one tv, no cable not internet, no cell phone...then you could still live on one income the point is we have traded extra hours of work for extra material goods.
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| | | 173 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710 Mon, May 21, 2012, 14:05
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They don't have cable, or Internet, or cell phones in Europe?
Man, that sucks to be them.
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| | | 174 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710 Mon, May 21, 2012, 14:05
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(And yes, I know that's an oversimplification.)
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| | | 175 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Mon, May 21, 2012, 14:09
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#172: I've said this elsewhere here (I think in the jobs thread) but I believe that we as a country are beginning to turn around on that point a bit (which is a good thing, IMO). The recession has caused many people to reevaluate the constant pursuit of, well, stuff. And now that the economy is picking back up a bit, the fact that some are choosing not to go back to work is a good thing.
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| | | 176 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, May 21, 2012, 15:31
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re 173, no you are correct cell phones are dirt cheap there, though internet can be quite high. though I was actually referring to a time in America when single incomes were more common. I don't actually know the rate of single incomes in Europe but I would think it is similar to USA.
re 175, I think that is accurate and some studies have indicated this is why they think hours works have continued to decline in the past 20 years.
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| | | 177 | DWetzel
ID: 31111810 Mon, May 21, 2012, 16:45
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Boikin, did you not mean to say "It should also be noted Europeans have traded standard of living for those less hours worked." ?
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| | | 178 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Mon, May 21, 2012, 17:10
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probably should have said something like this:
It should also be noted Europeans have traded standard of living for those less hours worked. You will not see many McMansions in Europe.
You can still live on a single income, if you wanted to live in small 50's size house drive one car own one tv, no cable not internet, no cell phone...then you still could live on one income.
The point is we have traded extra hours of work for extra material goods.
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| | | 179 | sarge33rd
ID: 353491011 Mon, May 21, 2012, 17:22
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no you cant boikin...
link
In 1950, min wage, required 56 hrs to pay a months rent.
1960, 71 hours...
1970, 67.5 hrs...
1980, 78 hrs...
1990, 118 hrs
2000, 117 hrs...
2010, 109 hrs.
Thats 3 1/2 weeks pay, for 1 months rent. Doesnt leave much, does it?
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| | | 180 | Frick
ID: 14082314 Tue, May 22, 2012, 08:28
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How are they defining rent? Just apartments or does that include people who are paying mortgages as well?
Home sizes have increased on average. I'm not sure on apartment sizes, but it seems like they are larger, on average, as well.
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| | | 181 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915 Tue, May 22, 2012, 10:48
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The link talks about "median rental price" which seems a little off to me, particularly in NYC where much of the rental market is rent controlled (who knows if the numbers are for non rent controlled or everyone? The underlying data isn't available).
Rent does consume more and more of the worker's paycheck. But one side benefit of the housing market collapse is that is starting to reverse itself a bit.
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| | | 182 | Frick
ID: 14082314 Tue, May 22, 2012, 11:55
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I don't disagree that rents are rising, what I was questioning is what are you getting for the money. If in 1950 you were able to rent a 1 bedroom 300 sq ft apartment for 56 hours, it isn't fair to compare that to a 1 bedroom 750 dq ft apartment. And that doesn't account for the the location and the price differences associated with specific neighborhoods. It also isn't accounting for what the differences in property taxes possibly are.
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| | | 183 | Boldwin
ID: 43492714 Wed, May 30, 2012, 07:44
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Victor Davis Hansen floats down the Rhine radar trained on the zeitgeist re EU breakup and awash in historical irony.
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| | | 184 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169 Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 21:01
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You've heard of derivatives [which were not allowed to unwind and are still as big a problem as ever], the EU looming precipice, but add to that the Chinese Golden Elephants.
Opaque investment vehicles, offered by shadow banks outside the normal banking regime, paying twice the average return, and backed by empty building projects in ghost towns.
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| | | 186 | Boldwin
ID: 80221316 Mon, Jan 14, 2013, 02:31
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France slips near the level of Italy and Spain [and that's really saying something] on certain metrics as French socialists hack and slash the rich.While France is at no serious risk of a debt crisis...youth jobless rate rising to a record 27pc...The economy may have tipped into recession already...
The employers group MEDEF said business was "in revolt across the country", warning that bankruptcies were accelerating and firms were slashing investment.
"Large foreign investors are shunning France altogether," it said.
Mr Hollande has sought to rein in his industry minister Arnaud Montebourg, who first lashed out at the Peugeot family and then threatened to nationalise ArclerMittal's steel operations in Lorraine, describing Lakshmi Mittal as "unwelcome" in France.
The state's share of the economy has risen to Nordic levels of 55pc of GDP, without Nordic labour flexibility.
The International Monetary Fund warns that France risks being left behind by Spain and Italy as they cut costs and grasp the nettle of deep reform.
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| | | 187 | Boldwin
ID: 270551422 Tue, Jan 15, 2013, 00:18
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That's right. Drag the Peugeot family and Gerard Depardieu around in tumbrels and let the French people see the ugly face of marxism.
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| | | 189 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Fri, Jan 18, 2013, 21:56
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404 error
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| | | 190 | Boldwin
ID: 510151819 Sat, Jan 19, 2013, 00:29
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Reserve currency bubble, and explains why inflation hasn't yet caught up to world-wide monetary supply inflation. And what will probably be the trigger or tipping point producing runaway inflation.
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| | | 193 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Sat, Jan 19, 2013, 00:34
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I didnt watch it Looked, and it appears to be more "sky is falling" doom and gloom. Paranoia, doesnt run high on my scale.
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| | | 194 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318 Sat, Jan 19, 2013, 01:30
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Doug Casey is an interesting and entertaining guy. His economic takes generally tag him as a gold bug, which lessens his credibility. Wonder if Boldwin shares his views on Muslims and the War on Terror.
The War on Terror is being fought mainly in Muslim countries. It's not being called a War on Islam, but to the people living in those places, it's increasingly looking like a War on Islam, and the fact that most U.S. allies in the Islamic world are oppressive regimes doesn't help at all. Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi, and Pakistan, among others, are all run by quislings, puppets, or stooges of the U.S. The average citizen of those places despises his corrupt government, and recognizes that the U.S. is propping it up – which gives them good reason to hate the U.S. The demographics in these places are a time bomb – half the population is under 30, and they're mostly unemployed. Many would form terrorist groups out of boredom, except they have much better reasons. The U.S. doesn't have any real friends in those suppressive governments anyway; those people will change sides in a New York second. And it's getting worse. What do the people in those countries perceive? Christian soldiers kicking in doors and shooting people – echoes of fighting that's gone on for over a thousand years. The West may think they are fighting a War on Terror, but Muslims are going to see it increasingly as a War on Islam. And when they react accordingly, it will become so.
That fool Bush said the U.S. was attacked because "they hate our freedom." I can't imagine a more ridiculous assessment. Especially when Bin Laden clearly spelled out why the 9/11 attack occurred – three reasons. One, foreign troops in Muslim countries. Two, the U.S. propping up puppet regimes in Muslim countries. Three, the U.S. supporting Israel, which they view as a usurper of Palestinian land. In point of fact, these are reasonable objections on his part. What should be done about this insane War on Terror, before it gets totally out of control, and you get everything from the kind of attacks we've discussed above, all the way up to nuclear explosions going off in U.S. cities? While the U.S. is bankrupting itself? I suggest the manly and honorable thing to do is sincerely apologize for past aggressions. Combined with disinvolvement of the U.S. Government and military from the Mideast. If they don't do that, this thing will almost certainly escalate, and get out of hand. When it comes to the next generation of warfare, terrorism, the only way to win is not to play. link
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| | | 195 | Boldwin
ID: 510151819 Sat, Jan 19, 2013, 03:06
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I agree with every word, except the idea that WWIII was avoidable. The forces at play were designed to explode at this time.
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| | | 196 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318 Sat, Jan 19, 2013, 11:48
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I agree with every word
I missed those posts of yours where you were sympathetic to Muslims perceiving Christian soldiers kicking in doors and shooting people – echoes of fighting that's gone on for over a thousand years...Muslims are going to see it increasingly as a War on Islam
Also missed those posts where you agreed with the suggestion that the manly and honorable thing to do is sincerely apologize for past aggressions. Combined with disinvolvement of the U.S. Government and military from the Mideast.
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| | | 197 | Boldwin
ID: 250381920 Sun, Jan 20, 2013, 00:09
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There actually are cycles of violence. Jihadi outrages will be a constant for the foreseeable future. Reactions will be inevitable. Not reacting to totalitarian jihadis doesn't lead to a peaceful outcome either. That is the factor the author overlooks. There is no possible peaceful outcome with jihadis at this time.
As the Bible says, the nations are being led along as if by a ring thru the nose at this time.
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| | | 198 | Boldwin
ID: 9147197 Tue, Feb 19, 2013, 08:51
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Gold.
Germany has asked for their gold back from storage in the USA. Which was met with a refusal.
Germany asked for an audit of their physical gold in the USA which was met by a refusal.
Germany was told they could retrieve their gold over the next seven years.
The 'powers that be' have been using 'fractional lending' to leverage their control over gold into greater wealth and power. The gold isn't there. ----- In unrelated *cough* news, France was at the time of his overthrow, refusing Khadafi's requests for his Euros in French banks back, so that he could establish the African Gold Dinar made from actual physical gold, as a new currency.
Prepare for the inevitible change in world reserve currency and a crash of the dollar's value as everyone cashes in and all those overseas dollars come winging their way back home.
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| | | 200 | Biliruben
ID: 358252515 Tue, Feb 19, 2013, 12:40
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I'd say put your money where your mouth is, but I don't wish poverty on any one.
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| | | 202 | Boldwin
ID: 292531620 Sat, Mar 16, 2013, 22:58
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Big news in Cyprus today, test case for Europe. Check out ZeroHedge today.
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| | | 203 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 07:41
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| | | 204 | Boldwin
ID: 332562122 Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 09:08
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Outstanding. My son the banker says Cyprus changed course on that, but I haven't had time to research it during our draft.
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| | | 205 | biliruben
ID: 59551120 Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 09:14
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Yeah. They need to, and probably will at some point, tell the Russian mobsters to suck it, and do as the icelanders did. They need to ruminate on that for a while first, however.
They got too used to all that mob money.
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| | | 207 | Boldwin
ID: 20234245 Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 06:34
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"The disinformation-to-total-confusion train pushes on forward; beggars can be choosers and 'demanders' won't be blackmailed." - Zero Hedge
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| | | 208 | Boldwin
ID: 13330423 Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 02:27
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If you aren't reading ZeroHedge you are just in the dark. So many huge items in today's edition it boggles the mind.
97% of bankrupt Spain's SS pension fund is held in the bankrupt country's bankrupt government bonds.
This whole nanny state of the west is designed to fold.
Italian leader says there is no plan B and suggests confiscating bank deposits become the template to follow.
Gold bars being used to circumvent currency rules and facilitate capital flight from the less solvent portions of the EU. Cars loaded with bars stopped at the border.
A guide to hiding your cash from the coming haircut.
The purpose of the media's anti-offshore banking slant and leaked offshore financial info. Spooking deposits into circulation since traditional methods have not increased velocity.
Eric Holder preparing to let Enron's Skilling out way early, half his time. Bet there's been donation promises made on that one.
I've just got to find a way to track interest rate swaps.
Regular hack attacks and denial of service attacks in the virtual currency [bitcoin, etc] realm.
The Keynesian Endgame
What could tip N.K. situation into a snowball going downhill.
The truth is out there and it rarely comes from the mainstream. That's just one day's haul. I'm begging you. Read ZeroHedge.
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| | | 209 | biliruben
ID: 41431323 Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 06:51
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I read it sometimes. When I need a chuckle.
It's like going to a pretty good fortune teller. Says just enough to get you scared out of your wits, but there is no there there.
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| | | 210 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 09:13
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Here is your whole "nanny state meme" problem B...the largest "nanny states" out there? (Germany and Sweden), are both doing quite well.It's the rest of the world, doing poorly.
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| | | 211 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Fri, Apr 05, 2013, 09:23
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link for 210
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| | | 213 | Boldwin
ID: 36417820 Wed, May 08, 2013, 23:06
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Since January 2012, China has imported an absolutely stunning 1,206 tons of gold. Putting this number in context, this is 20% more than the entire reporter official gold holdings of 1054 tons, and represents roughly half of the total 2500 tons of gold mined every year.

There is an interesting stealth war going on between countries with everyone inflating their money supplies like crazy. Which instantly devalues a country's holdings in the trade and currency of the other countries they deal with.
There is also a race to nail down real wealth as opposed to paper wealth. I think Germany's attempt to repatriate their gold from vaults in America and being rebuffed in that was a real jaw dropper. The gap between physical gold and paper gold assets is one to watch closely as a telling indicator.
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| | | 214 | Boldwin
ID: 2446204 Mon, May 20, 2013, 06:02
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"Everybodies' doing it. Everyone's printing money. This has never happened before in the history of the world."
Interview with old school investor and George Soros' former partner, Jim Rogers.
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| | | 217 | Boldwin
ID: 57650716 Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 19:19
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Butt
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