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| Posted by: Seattle Zen
- [10732616] Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 19:33
Are these really State Secrets?
Surprised there hasn't been mention of this yet, perhaps because it really isn't that big of a deal. We learned very little.
Right now Julian Assange has a red notice from Interpol for alleged sex crimes in Sweden.
If there was ever a person and a time when any allegation against him immediately screams - "SET UP!", it would be him and now. |
| | | 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 19:50
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I've been watching, with some amusement, some of the reactions of people like Sarah Palin, who say he should be charged with "treason" and that Wikileaks should be "shut down."
Apparently she's not aware that you can't charge a non-citizen with treason. Or that WikiLeaks isn't in the US.
There are some interesting tidbits, particularly how the autocrats of the Middle East keep trying to get the Us to do their dirty work and bomb Iran. Most of it, for me, is the kind of minutiae that reveals little new.
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| | | 2 | Seattle Zen
ID: 10732616 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 19:56
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Not everyone agrees with me...
A couple of unimportant knuckledraggers were grunting something about "executing" the leaker. So tiresome.
The Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee has called for whoever leaked the 250,000 US diplomatic cables to be executed.
His fellow potential Republican nominee Sarah Palin had already called for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to be "hunted down", and an adviser to the Canadian prime minister has echoed her comments.
Huckabee said: "Whoever in our government leaked that information is guilty of treason, and I think anything less than execution is too kind a penalty." Did we learn anything from these leaks?
David Brooks: Maybe the good news is that there is no news. I’ve asked a few world leaders if the secret information they have access to gives them a different picture of the world than the one the rest of us get just reading the paper. They generally say no. What we see on the outside is what they see on the inside. They just have more granularity.
Gail Collins: Yes, so far I’ve been amazed by how few surprises we’ve gotten. Unless you were under the impression that the other Arab countries didn’t hate Iran. Or that China wasn’t fully aware that the leadership of North Korea is entirely composed of nutballs.
David Brooks: These cables — which don’t include “top secret” stuff, admittedly — show no hidden conspiracies, at least of any consequence. Maybe the normal work of journalism covers the world as it really is.
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| | | 3 | Boldwin
ID: 261139112 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 20:34
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There is something to this take on it. I've read suggestions that they are so tame that they may just be a bag of official confetti to bury some disinformation in.
On the otherhand they've pretty much rendered diplomacy impossible. Who wants to say something confidential to a USA diplomat atm?
At least Bradley Manning, the openly gay source of the leaked material gave us a posterboy for the new gay army.
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| | | 4 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 20:46
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Did he leak something because he was gay? You've really got to get over your male anal sex fixation. It isn't healthy.
Since he was arrested in May 2010 I don't think Private Manning, gay or not, was the source for the latest release.
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| | | 5 | Boldwin
ID: 261139112 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 21:01
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Did he leak something because he was gay?
Yeah he did. Read his facebook.
male anal sex fixation. It isn't healthy
See I'd agree with you if you were talking about the people who actually do have.
Since he was arrested in May 2010 I don't think Private Manning, gay or not, was the source for the latest release.
Which doesn't invalidate anything I said.
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| | | 6 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 23:21
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Which doesn't invalidate anything I said.
I think your confusion is causing vague posting. See this: At least Bradley Manning, the openly gay source of the leaked material gave us a posterboy for the new gay army.
This was posted in a thread (this one) about a completely separate leak. I don't even think you realize, until you read this post, that Manning is under arrest for leaking the "collateral video" and not the State Department correspondence.
His stated reasons for releasing that video are a matter of public record. Your intentional substitution of his sexuality with those stated reasons notwithstanding, his reasons are clear and not at all confusing.
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| | | 9 | Boldwin
ID: 451159221 Fri, Dec 03, 2010, 09:58
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There was nothing confusing about it. He decided to take his homosexual frustrations and lash out at everyone.
And he didn't just release the Baghdad airstrike video. He also released around 260,000 diplomatic cables.
Really I wish you had a grasp on things before issuing your 'last word' on the matter.
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| | | 11 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Fri, Dec 03, 2010, 10:21
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Heh.
I had read a few days ago that he was a person of interest in the latest release. So it *could be* that he gave WikiLeaks the cables before he was arrested. (He was arrested in May for releasing the Collateral video, and another whose name escapes me right now).
His stated reasons for the earlier video releases were pretty clear, I think. Remains to be seen if he released the cables--I wouldn't be surprised, in the end, if it turned out to be him.
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| | | 22 | Seattle Zen
ID: 10732616 Fri, Dec 03, 2010, 13:07
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Back to the Batcave!
Wikileaks now being hosted in a Swedish cave.
I'm surprised they haven't figured out how to host this stuff via bit torrent from thousands of individual PC's, a list of volunteers who would be assigned random bits that get rotated regularly.
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| | | 23 | Seattle Zen Leader
ID: 055343019 Sat, Dec 04, 2010, 12:55
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Should Assange be prosecuted?
James C. Goodale, who represented The Times in the Pentagon Papers case, writes at The Daily Beast that any prosecution would be the first step on a slippery slope: “The information leaked by WikiLeaks includes unclassified information. If Obama decides to prosecute leakers for leaks of unclassified information, we will be on our way to an Official Secrets Act. Such an act permits a government to censor and penalize the publication of information it deems secret. The U.S. does not have an Official Secrets Act because under the First Amendment, it would be unconstitutional. It would be the better part of valor to avoid these problems. All the State Department has to do is a better job of keeping its confidential information confidential, or alternatively, join the rest of us in the Digital Age.” There are a smattering of opinions on this in this piece, I agree with Goodale the most.
Then there is this whole Swedish arrest warrant thing.
Whether Assange is extradited to Sweden or not, many on the left are a tad suspicious of the circumstances:
– “Apparently having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for rape,” writes Jamed D. Catlin at Crikey. “That is the basis for a reinstitution of rape charges against WikiLeaks figurehead Julian Assange that is destined to make Sweden and its justice system the laughing stock of the world and dramatically damage its reputation as a model of modernity.”
– Glenn Greenwald kinda, maybe sees a nefarious pattern: “What I do know … is this: as soon as Scott Ritter began telling the truth about Iraqi WMDs, he was publicly smeared with allegations of sexual improprieties. As soon as Eliot Spitzer began posing a real threat to Wall Street criminals, a massive and strange federal investigation was launched over nothing more than routine acts of consensual adult prostitution, ending his career (and the threat he posed to oligarchs). And now, the day after Julian Assange is responsible for one of the largest leaks in history, an arrest warrant issues that sharply curtails his movement and makes his detention highly likely.”
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| | | 24 | nerveclinic
ID: 01154411 Sat, Dec 04, 2010, 14:34
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For those saying there "wasn't much there", what about the revelation that Hillary Clinton instructed embassy personnel to spy on foreign diplomats including hierarchy at the UN.
From the NY Times "The cables give a laundry list of instructions for how State Department employees can fulfill the demands of a “National Humint Collection Directive.” (“Humint” is spy-world jargon for human intelligence collection.) One cable asks officers overseas to gather information about “office and organizational titles; names, position titles and other information on business cards; numbers of telephones, cellphones, pagers and faxes,” as well as “internet and intranet ‘handles’, internet e-mail addresses, web site identification-URLs; credit card account numbers; frequent-flier account numbers; work schedules, and other relevant biographical information.”
Is that too much to paste from an article? If so I will self edit.
On a side note the Wikileaks website is blocked here in the UAE.
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| | | 25 | Seattle Zen Leader
ID: 055343019 Sat, Dec 04, 2010, 15:44
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what about the revelation that Hillary Clinton instructed embassy personnel to spy on foreign diplomats including hierarchy at the UN.
That's always been in the diplomat job description. Honestly, nothing new there.
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| | | 26 | Seattle Zen Leader
ID: 055343019 Tue, Dec 07, 2010, 11:32
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And detained he is....
A British judge denied Julian Assange bail on Tuesday after the WikiLeaks founder told a London court he would fight efforts to extradite him to Sweden to face a sex-crimes investigation. Assange appeared Tuesday afternoon at the City of Westminster Magistrates' Court in London after turning himself in to Scotland Yard earlier in the day. Assange and his lawyers claim the Swedish accusations from two women stem from a "dispute over consensual but unprotected sex" dating back to August, and have claimed the case has taken on political overtones. Swedish officials have rejected those claims. Let the Swedish farce begin!
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| | | 27 | Building 7 Leader
ID: 171572711 Tue, Dec 07, 2010, 13:34
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Why didn't Assange blackmail the U.S. government to not release the leaks. He could have made millions. If they didn't believe him, he could have released a fourth of his leaks, and then given them his Paypal account info. And he has dirt on a major bank. That could be worth a billion. They don't care. Anything to extend the game. He may be doing this anyways, that we don't know about.
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| | | 28 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Dec 07, 2010, 13:39
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I don't think he's interested in making money.
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| | | 29 | boikin
ID: 532592112 Tue, Dec 07, 2010, 14:58
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I don't think he's interested in making money.
And that is what scares them.
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| | | 30 | Perm Dude
ID: 5510572522 Tue, Dec 07, 2010, 15:43
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I guess the Far Right must really love the dump, since it probably confirms that Obama is undercutting, at every turn, American exceptionalism, spreading socialism/communism, giving aid to our enemies, etc., yes? Er, maybe not so much.
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| | | 32 | Boldwin
ID: 351143823 Thu, Dec 09, 2010, 01:30
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Who is also Bradley Manning's lawyer, and who also 'coincidentally'works for George Soros' Open Society.
All coincidences.
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| | | 33 | Seattle Zen
ID: 10732616 Thu, Dec 09, 2010, 17:46
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Example number 877868562385487596875875 of European opinion being far more enlightened than our leadership's.
Europeans Criticize Fierce U.S. Response to Leaks
For Seumas Milne of The Guardian in London, which has shared the latest WikiLeaks trove with The New York Times, the official American reaction “is tipping over towards derangement.” Most of the leaks are of low-level diplomatic cables, he noted, while concluding: “Not much truck with freedom of information, then, in the land of the free.”
John Naughton, writing in the same British paper, decried the attack on the openness of the Internet and the pressure on companies like Amazon and eBay to evict the WikiLeaks site. “The response has been vicious, coordinated and potentially comprehensive,” he said, and presents a “delicious irony” that “it is now the so-called liberal democracies that are clamoring to shut WikiLeaks down.”
A year ago, he noted, Mrs. Clinton made a major speech about Internet freedom, interpreted as a rebuke to China’s cyber-attack on Google. “Even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people to discover new facts and making governments more accountable.” To Mr. Naughton now, “that Clinton speech reads like a satirical masterpiece.” In what may turn out to be the Right's biggest disappointing result of the leaks, French opinion of the US may have been markedly improved! Sacre bleu!
Renaud Girard, a respected reporter for the center-right Le Figaro, said that he was impressed by the generally high quality of the American diplomatic corps. “What is most fascinating is that we see no cynicism in U.S. diplomacy,” he said. “They really believe in human rights in African and China and Russia and Asia. They really believe in democracy and human rights. People accuse the Americans of double standards all the time. But it’s not true here. If anything, the diplomats are almost naïve, and I don’t think these leaks will jeopardize the United States. Most will see the diplomats as honest, sincere and not so cynical.”
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| | | 34 | Boldwin
ID: 441152108 Fri, Dec 10, 2010, 10:05
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Very interesting post. My problem with it is the lack f accountability for the results. I read somewhere Assange bragging about thousands of deaths [in Kenya?] due to some of his early leaking. No sense of guilt or doubts. No source, I just remember it that way.
There have been some very beneficial leaks over the years. FBI foreknowlege of terrorist attacks for example. Climate-Gate hackers for example. How do you punish the bad hackers and reward the heroes? Who gets to assign the white hats?
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| | | 36 | Boldwin
ID: 591147257 Sat, Dec 25, 2010, 08:52
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Science Fiction [Brunner] was sorting thru the morality of this in 1975.“Is this an unforgivable invasion of privacy?” Haflinger asks the assembled media. “Invasion of privacy it is; unforgivable … Well, do you believe that justice shall not only be done but shall be seen to be done? The privacy my worm is designed to invade is that privacy under whose cover justice is not done and injustice is not seen.” I haven't sorted this myself but it's powerful stuff. What does it mean when governments can't say or do anything in private? How does that reshape the world?
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| | | 37 | sarge33rd
ID: 280311620 Tue, Dec 28, 2010, 18:32
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Govts do a LOT, which has yet to be revealed. God willing, it never will be.
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| | | 39 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 13:57
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Add a new name to the list of hero whistle blowers - Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations
Three weeks ago, Snowden made final preparations that resulted in last week's series of blockbuster news stories. At the NSA office in Hawaii where he was working, he copied the last set of documents he intended to disclose.
He then advised his NSA supervisor that he needed to be away from work for "a couple of weeks" in order to receive treatment for epilepsy, a condition he learned he suffers from after a series of seizures last year.
As he packed his bags, he told his girlfriend that he had to be away for a few weeks, though he said he was vague about the reason. "That is not an uncommon occurrence for someone who has spent the last decade working in the intelligence world."
On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent", and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.
In the three weeks since he arrived, he has been ensconced in a hotel room. "I've left the room maybe a total of three times during my entire stay," he said. It is a plush hotel and, what with eating meals in his room too, he has run up big bills.
He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.
Though that may sound like paranoia to some, Snowden has good reason for such fears. He worked in the US intelligence world for almost a decade. He knows that the biggest and most secretive surveillance organisation in America, the NSA, along with the most powerful government on the planet, is looking for him. I wonder if he had consensual sex with anyone in Sweden?
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| | | 40 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 14:05
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Ah, yes, the fallout - US in damage control mode after Edward Snowden's explosive NSA leaks
In London, the British foreign secretary, William Hague, was forced to defend the UK's use of intelligence gathered by the US. Other European leaders also voiced concern.
The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, is expected to grill Obama next week, during a much-awaited summit in Berlin. Peter Schaar, Germany's federal data protection commissioner, told the Guardian it was unacceptable for the US authorities to have access to EU citizens' data, and that the level of protection is lower than that guaranteed to US citizens.
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| | | 41 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 14:13
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It'll be interesting how the GOP frames this. After all, they wasted no effort in painting such people as traitors during the Bush Administration.
My own take is that they simply cannot resist trying to hurt Obama.
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| | | 42 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 14:28
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And just so I'm clear: I hope they do. Run with Snowden, and shut down the pro-war GOP members who have been running the GOP's Foreign Policy desk for 20 years now.
And maybe this will even give courage to weak-kneed Democrats to do the right thing and shut this dammed thing down. Repeal the Patriot Act.
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| | | 43 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 14:43
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And maybe this will even give courage to weak-kneed Democrats to do the right thing and shut this dammed thing down. Repeal the Patriot Act.
I've been thinking along those lines, too. This is a great "reach across the aisle" opportunity.
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| | | 44 | bibA
ID: 54522612 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 15:06
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It'll be interesting how the GOP frames this.
Bet my bottom dollar they will portray Snowden as a hero....you know, like they did with Assange and Ellsberg.
Seeing the likes of Dianne Feinstein defend the NSA wiretapping does make me shake my head. Wouldn't she probably have been all over Bush for the same thing?
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| | | 45 | Boldwin
ID: 31541109 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 16:37
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This is a great opportunity to see who work for the people and who work for the power elite.
I watch Lindsey Graham and my blood just boils.
I've been thinking along those lines, too. This is a great "reach across the aisle" opportunity.
Bet my bottom dollar they will portray Snowden as a hero....you know, like they did with Assange and Ellsberg.
Ellsberg was giving aid and comfort to an enemy in wartime. I was very conflicted on Assange at first but came around 95% in support of him. I'm still thinking there were a few things released that didn't do the greater good. I'd help bail him out tho.
There's a Chinese recruiter working on Snowden with a strong arm. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns them down and he ends up shipped back home. I got a world of respect for that dude. Show me what harm he did?
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| | | 46 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 16:53
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(A) How is this "whistle-blowing", when USA Today covered this very thing in their May 11, 2006 edition?
(B) Why all this phoney outrage, when it has been public knowledge for 7 years?
(C) When will Americans develop an attention span in excess of 30 seconds and a news cycle in excess of 10?
5/11/2006 USA Today on NSA and Verizon et al
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| | | 47 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 17:23
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a decent response by Andrew Sullivan, This is bullsh...
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| | | 49 | Boldwin
ID: 25111019 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 20:14
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The problem as I see it is that the issue is NOT the 'somewhat' limited sort of general metadata they claim they track. The problem is that they have the keys to all the doors. There isn't anything they can't access and there isn't any way you could trust them to limit themselves.
But they will skate because they will claim the limited generalized data is useful. Which is a debatable position.
They will skate because we are in the post-Clinton era in which relentless shamelessness is invincible. Your backers will eventually wave the moveon.org flag longer than the media will stick to their putative mission. If you have absolutely no shame.
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| | | 50 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 20:33
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What people need to remember, especially those on the Right with little memory of actual events, is that the NSA actions are entirely legal. Under laws pushed through by the GOP, over the protests of leftist activists that they pilloried and called "naive."
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| | | 51 | Boldwin
ID: 25111019 Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 20:49
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Conservatives were sounding the alarm just as loudly as Rachel Maddow. Both sides need to sound the alarm and not stop sounding it until the threat has been subdued, culprits have been fired, jailed and thrown out of office.
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| | | 53 | Boldwin
ID: 25111019 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 00:07
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The administration claims authority to sift through details of our private lives because the Patriot Act says that it can. I disagree. I authored the Patriot Act, and this is an abuse of that law. [...]
...Technically, the administration’s actions were lawful insofar as they were done pursuant to an order from the Fisa court. But based on the scope of the released order, both the administration and the Fisa court are relying on an unbounded interpretation of the act that Congress never intended.
Congress intended to allow the intelligence communities to access targeted information for specific investigations. How can every call that every American makes or receives be relevant to a specific investigation?
This is well beyond what the Patriot Act allows. When the author of the Patriot Act says 'this abuse must end' it's pretty obvious no one should allow partisan calculations, patriotism, inertia, inattention or fear to allow this business to continue.
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| | | 54 | Boldwin
ID: 8514113 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 04:37
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Re:SZ#48
I'm out of time atm, but check the Rassmussen poll. If I remember correctly their results flip flop the ones you quote. Perhaps the way you word this one makes a big diff.
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| | | 56 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 12:09
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I think there is big point that people are missing in this issue is that the data is not being deleted. Yeah fine they only chased terrorist but nothing is stopping them from going back through past data at there leisure looking for whatever they please. While combing through every call seems impossible today, 5 years from now when it is not you think the they are going to let there huge warehouses of data go untouched.
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| | | 57 | Boldwin
ID: 365471111 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 12:56
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Remember back when Poindexter was building the 'Total Information Awareness' program and they supposedly shut it down?
They never stop.
Remember that humongous warehouse for all the world's electronic data storage they just built in Utah?

Do you think it has even occurred to them that they might stop and make the slightest correction in direction?
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| | | 58 | Frick
ID: 432501512 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 13:34
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From what I've seen, they are requesting (and probably saving) the metadata from calls (to/from/length), but not the actual call itself. And it is within possibility that they are data mining that amount of information currently. I doubt that is more data then Google has and what they are analyzing.
Boikin, is your fear that the government will go back through the data and start trying to charge people with crimes based on the telephone usage patterns?
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| | | 59 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 13:57
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I'm sure the metadata is being saved, but certainly it is less useful as time goes on, particularly without content.
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| | | 60 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 14:10
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I doubt they convict anyone based on the data they are collecting but they could probably decide to ruin your day with the data. Also the data does not lose its value with time it actually gains value as it ages. when data first comes in is raw and is mostly analyzed using basic techniques but as data ages they will be able to connect it with more future data which will increasing power of the analysis. Secondly they have multiple types of data sources which google, yahoo, apple,... don't have independently the combination of meta data of multiples sources could lead who knows what kind of patterns.
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| | | 61 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 14:36
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re 53...what was the persons opinion, when on May 11, 2006, USA Today said NSA was collecting data from Verizon, AT&T, Mobile, Sprint, etc etc?
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| | | 62 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 14:37
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Yes, the data is more useful once analyzed, and that takes a bit of time. That wasn't my point.
Say you have some data that has been analyzed. Is your point that the data is more useful in ten years? Fifteen?
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| | | 63 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 14:38
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they could probably decide to ruin your day with the data
As could Facebook. Or your credit card company, or bank...
Is that the standard we are going for here? I don't mean to be flip, but all this is old news, frankly.
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| | | 64 | boikin
ID: 430211013 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 16:20
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I agree for the most part, I would say the main difference is that a) I willing agree to use those services and b) i sign a legal contract with them so I do at least to some extent have legal/civil recourse.
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| | | 65 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 18:24
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They did not build those huge buildings to store meta data, meta data does not take up much space itself. They store EVERYTHING, the audio of the phone calls, the text of email. They admit to only viewing the meta data without a warrant, but if you become a suspect, they can get a warrant and go back and listen to every call, read every email. That was one of the new pieces of information that was contained in Snowden's leak.
So, PD, I think Sullivan is slightly off point. The feds are currently claiming to only study the meta data, but they have ALL of the data and will use it when they deem appropriate.
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| | | 66 | Boldwin
ID: 365471111 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 21:01
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| | | 67 | Boldwin
ID: 365471111 Tue, Jun 11, 2013, 21:03
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They don't just have every bit of data, it appears practically any agent, even a retired one can access it for giggles.
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| | | 68 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 11:46
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#65: That may be true. I genuinely don't know (and, really, none of us do). There is vast, vast, vast amounts of metadata, and analyzing just the metadata takes a lot of room as well.
And, as has been said elsewhere, the whole thing might, indeed, be a gross violation of power (I don't think we know enough to say so yet, but it has both the appearance and the opportunity to be such). None of it is illegal, however, and Snowden isn't a "whistleblower" in that sense. He's not pointing out criminal behavior so much as pointing out government actions with which he disagrees.
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| | | 69 | Boldwin
ID: 125451212 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 13:45
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This really belongs in the 'War On Free Speech' thread but the mods here won't allow a thread on that scandal.
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| | | 70 | Boldwin
ID: 125451212 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 13:49
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None of it is illegal, however, and Snowden isn't a "whistleblower" in that sense.
Considering that the author of the Patriot Act says it is being interpreted in a way they never dreamed the courts would countinence, he's still a whistleblower in the classic sense of the term. Who else was going to reveal it? The stakes are nothing less than the survival of America as we know it, and he faced the highest possible risk in doing this patriotic service for us all.
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| | | 71 | Tree
ID: 275221211 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 14:15
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<>Considering that the author of the Patriot Act says it is being interpreted in a way they never dreamed...
then the author of the patriot act was, and is, a moron.
those of us who were against it then predicted this sort of thing with more accuracy than nearly anything you've predicted on these boards.
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| | | 72 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 14:24
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Reminds me of the southern state rep who was shocked! shocked! to find that her bill to help religious schools would also be used by Muslim religious schools.
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| | | 73 | sarge33rd
ID: 4609710 Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 19:52
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Who else was going to reveal it?
USA Today, on May 11, 2006.
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| | | 74 | Boldwin
ID: 535391222 Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 00:01
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March 2013 – Hearing of the Senate Intelligence Committee (Oxymoron) Senator Wyden: “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” Clapper: “No, sir.” James Clapper knowingly LIED to Congress because he never thought his lie would be revealed by Edward [...]
I guess he wasn't worried about USA Today either.
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| | | 75 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3603123 Sat, Jun 15, 2013, 22:58
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Yep, the NSA can listen to your domestic phone calls without a warrant, well, that's what they are doing, whether it is legal or not...
NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants
The disclosure appears to confirm some of the allegations made by Edward Snowden, a former NSA infrastructure analyst who leaked classified documents to the Guardian. Snowden said in a video interview that, while not all NSA analysts had this ability, he could from Hawaii "wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president."
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| | | 76 | Boldwin
ID: 14538161 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 06:02
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HONG KONG GETS IT- FREE SNOWDEN, ARREST OBAMA

This, in a peculiar colony of Red China.
“By standing up for Snowden, I also want to send a message that we need that kind of citizen in Hong Kong,” activist Chikwan Ho told ABC News. “Somebody who is watching our government to see if they are abusing power to control our lives.” Also sending a message to their Beijing overlords who I would imagine are considerably less interested in public opinion than Obama is. Unless it damages the West and makes them look better in comparison if you don't think about it too carefully.
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| | | 77 | Boldwin
ID: 14538161 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 06:03
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Source
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| | | 78 | Boldwin
ID: 14538161 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 06:10
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The Scorecard: Snowden Approval Rating 54%, Obama 46%, Congress 17%
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| | | 79 | Perm Dude
ID: 201027169 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 12:44
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#75: It will be *very* interesting to see Obama's reaction to all this. This is a defining moment for this Administration, and the fact that the GOP will hate him no matter what he does should take them out of the equation.
Time to do the right thing.
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| | | 80 | Frick
ID: 157331422 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 14:08
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I agree with PD. No matter what Obama's response is, the Republican party will complain and point out what he is doing wrong.
But, for the rest of the country, this could very well set the tone for his legacy.
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| | | 81 | biliruben
ID: 41431323 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 14:46
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The NSA Director walks into a bar. Bartender: I’ve got a new joke for you. NSA Director: Heard it.
http://www.samefacts.com/2013/06/uncategorized/prism-in-action/
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| | | 82 | Boldwin
ID: 50591616 Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 22:46
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And in 25 years after the great civil war, after American Holocaust is over, a brave new president will unplug the database, vow NEVER AGAIN — MATT DRUDGE (@DRUDGE) May 13, 2013 - Drudge on Twitter The_man_has_a_lotta_sources.
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| | | 83 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Thu, Aug 29, 2013, 17:41
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Hat tip to Eric Snowden...
Intelligence-collecting colossus eats $56.4 billion dollars a year.
The 178-page budget summary for the National Intelligence Program details the successes, failures and objectives of the 16 spy agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community, which has 107,035 employees. “The United States has made a considerable investment in the Intelligence Community since the terror attacks of 9/11, a time which includes wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Arab Spring, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction technology, and asymmetric threats in such areas as cyber-warfare,” Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. said in response to inquiries from The Post. Among the notable revelations in the budget summary:
•Spending by the CIA has surged past that of every other spy agency, with $14.7 billion in requested funding for 2013. The figure vastly exceeds outside estimates and is nearly 50 percent above that of the National Security Agency, which conducts eavesdropping operations and has long been considered the behemoth of the community.
•The CIA and NSA have launched aggressive new efforts to hack into foreign computer networks to steal information or sabotage enemy systems, embracing what the budget refers to as “offensive cyber operations.”
•The NSA planned to investigate at least 4,000 possible insider threats in 2013, cases in which the agency suspected sensitive information may have been compromised by one of its own. The budget documents show that the U.S. intelligence community worried long before Snowden’s leaks about “anomalous behavior” by personnel with access to highly classified material.
•U.S. intelligence officials take an active interest in foes as well as friends. Pakistan is described in detail as an “intractable target,” and counterintelligence operations “are strategically focused against [the] priority targets of China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and Israel.”
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| | | 84 | Seattle Zen
ID: 3310162612 Mon, Sep 30, 2013, 18:19
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The impact of a leaked terrorist plot by Al Qaeda in August has caused more immediate damage to American counterterrorism efforts than the thousands of classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor.
Since news reports in early August revealed that the United States intercepted messages between Ayman al-Zawahri, who succeeded Osama bin Laden as the head of Al Qaeda, and Nasser al-Wuhayshi, the head of the Yemen-based Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, discussing an imminent terrorist attack, analysts have detected a sharp drop in the terrorists’ use of a major communications channel that the authorities were monitoring. Since August, senior American officials have been scrambling to find new ways to surveil the electronic messages and conversations of Al Qaeda’s leaders and operatives.
“The switches weren’t turned off, but there has been a real decrease in quality” of communications, said one United States official, who like others quoted spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence programs.
The drop in message traffic after the communication intercepts contrasts with what analysts describe as a far more muted impact on counterterrorism efforts from the disclosures by Mr. Snowden of the broad capabilities of N.S.A. surveillance programs. Instead of terrorists moving away from electronic communications after those disclosures, analysts have detected terrorists mainly talking about the information that Mr. Snowden has disclosed.
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