Forum: pol
Page 3570
Subject: The Real Rick Perry


  Posted by: Tree - [41512710] Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:13

this thread should be a fun one, because he's gonna say a lot of dumb things...

Rick Perry Wants to Get Ugly With Ben Bernanke

"If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I dunno what y’all would do to him in Iowa but we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas. Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treasonous in my opinion."
 
1DWetzel
      ID: 53326279
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:15
Dude.

It's Parry.
 
2Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:51
wow. i just heard on the radio that Rick Perry's birth name is Enrique Perez, and he was born in Juarez, Mexico.

i'm pretty sure i've never seen his birth certificate.
 
3biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:55
According to blogthings he was originally Shashenka Gregori Popov, born in Stalingrad and snuck into Texas at the age of 2; deep sleeper from an old Soviet program.
 
4Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 11:58
i wish i could remember the radio station i listened to, but i know at one point it was the all-talk conservative station. pretty sure that your information is incorrect, because i heard mine on the radio and so it must be true.

i don't have any links though.
 
5Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 13:15
I'm guessing his candidacy is as serious as this thread so far. He doesn't deserve a 'Real' thread yet. Nor Huntsman.
 
6Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 13:21
Questioning Obama's citizenship wasn't serious either.
 
7Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 13:32
Not questioning it has trivialized the constitutional requirements.
 
8Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 13:52
WH on Perry: Threatening the Fed Chair isn't a Good Idea
 
9Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 14:21
Not questioning it has trivialized the constitutional requirements.

questioning it has trivialized common sense.
 
10Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 14:23
Karl Rove Slams Perry For Fed "Treason" Comments

Rick Perry's "treason" comments are drawing sharp criticism from a wide range of political observers and talking heads, among them Karl Rove.

"You don't accuse the chairman of the Federal Reserve of being a traitor to his country. Of being guilty of treason," Rove, who has clashed with Perry before, told Fox News (via TPM). "And, suggesting that we treat him pretty ugly in Texas — You know, that is not, again a presidential statement."
 
11Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 14:47
Texas used Stimulus Funds to cover 97% of its deficit.
 
12Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 14:47


nom nom nom.

this has nothing to do with anything, but it cracked me up.
 
13sarge33rd
      ID: 237511613
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 14:53
Perry feeds his face, even while declining Fed aid for his states unemployed.
 
14bibA
      ID: 48627713
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 15:25
Tree - I bet you were tempted to crop that photo a bit before posting it, weren't you?
 
15Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Aug 16, 2011, 15:45
no need to crop. the thing speaks for itself.
 
16Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 15:16
Rick Perry's changes to the Constitution

We all have changes we'd like to see made, I'm sure. Here is a list of what Rick Perry would like to see changed about the Constitution.

1. limit time served for federal judges.

Nuetral on this one. I'm all for term limits. But there is something to be said for constitency in the courts. You won't get that if judges are vying for appointments/elections every few years at the top levels and turn over is a regular thing. Guess I wouldn't be too upset if this one happened, but would prefer it didn't.

2. Allow congress to overturn federal judge rulings - as if congress didn't have enough power already. Ever hear of a check & balance system? His idea would be a check and checkmate sytem. Hope it never happens.

3. Scrap federal income tax - lets see his proposal to replace those funds then I'll decide. But on its own, this is a boneheaded move. Government needs funds from somewhere to run.

4. Appoint members of the senate instead of electing them. Hello good ol' boys club. Even more so than now. Firmly against.

5. Require balanced federal budget every year. Honestly I think most government officials supporting this do so because it sounds good, not because they believe it. Its just not realistic. Against this, despite the fact that a balanced budget, in a vacuum, is a good theory. Its not good reality and doesn't exist in a vacuum.

6. Constitution should define marriage as between a man and a woman. Against this one as well. Leave it up to state rights. Fed should not be involved. If a state wants to define it that way, great. Let them. If a state wants to define it differently, great let them. But the fed should stay out of it


7. Abortion made illegal. Not interested in starting an abortion debate. Just will say I'm comfortable with the current laws. And just like #6, it should not be a fed decision. Leave it up to the states.
 
17Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 15:25
Former Reagan & Bush official calls Perry "an idiot."
 
18sarge33rd
      ID: 547591918
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 20:03
Despite serving in Republican administrations, Bartlett is no stranger to GOP criticism, particularly of former President George W. Bush.

Bartlett's 2006 book "Imposter: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy" accused the administration of departing from conservative economic principles. More recently he attributed the economic recession to the former president and Republican Party.


Damn, a right-winger I can agree with. :)
 
19Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 21:29
I been sayin he betrayed the Reagan Revolution since day one and you've never agreed with me.
 
20Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 22:31
And I've been saying that you haven't a clue what the Revolution was. You certainly shy away from both the tactics and the goals of the thing.
 
21Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 22:41
Well heck, I'll just redefine the sixties and marxism and convince you they were all about lowering taxes, shrinking government, defending traditional culture and morality.

Two can play that game.
 
22DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Fri, Aug 19, 2011, 22:53
You've been redefining reality for years, no sense stopping now.
 
23Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 00:58
Ron Paul supporter takes out a full page ad in the Austin Chronicle accusing Perry of bing gay and also of philandering with strippers.
 
24Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 01:12
Anyone know if those proposed amendments are part of his platform? The linked article says he mentions them on the trail.

Notwithstanding the absurdity of the proposals themselves, the notion that President Perry could get Congress to make amend the constitution is the most ridiculous thing I've heard tonight.
 
25Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 01:12
And I've spent the last 30 min as the only sober guy on a late Friday commuter train out of Manhattan.
 
26Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 01:20
Some of these are spelled out in On the Issues.
 
27Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 03:25
re: 23 - FWIW, i've heard several gay friends of a similar age to Perry discuss the "worst kept secret" that he played for both teams while at A&M (where he fabulously earned a 2.2 GPA)....
 
28deepsnapper
      ID: 417581921
      Sat, Aug 20, 2011, 23:59
Didn't intend to post in here, and if I'm intruding, I'll bail, but I was born about 12 miles north of Paint Creek which I thought was an unincorporated area around Lake Stamford (Stamford pop 6000 in 60's) Stamford's clalm to fame is their annual rattlesnake roundup and being the Rattlesnake Capital of the World.

I was born in Haskell,10 miles north of Stamford to a Dr. Thigpen. Who co-incidently was the father in law to Rick Perry, That's where his initial wealth came from - the old fashioned way,(he married it). Dr. Thigpen was a staunch Democrat as well as Perry until the Republican migration to Texas in the 80s made the state Republican and Perry switched parties (flip-flopper), and Dr. Thigpen had already passed away. I'll bet he's spinning in his grave now...

He graduated in a class of 12 from Paint Creek HS & went to A&M & joined the Corps of Cadets. There's no way he was going to fail as long as he was in the Corps. The 2.2 was probably contrived.

The worst thing about his last acts as Govenor so far was to veto the "Texting while driving" bill passed by the TX Congress. He even got MADD on his rear on that one He also left Billions of dollars in a "reserve fund" while 10s of thousands of teachers have been laid off across Texas this year because he cut 4 billion from their funding and reallocated the lottery money that was designated to go directly to the schools to be redirected to the general fund. And he refused Federal funds for unemployment & education due to the 'strings' attached - what strings? Nobody knew or was it explained.

He stated on camera at a Tea Party rally in 2010 to a Fort Worth CBS reporter if changes didn't take place in Washington that we (Texas) had seccesion options to consider. Legally it was written, we could break into as many as 6 states when TX joined the Union, but there never was an "out" clause. He's probably never read the unification treaty, and if he did, probabably didn't know the "big" words.

He is so smug I'd like to slap him, but he carries a gun and he might shoot me for being a nuisance, anyway, from a "Native Texan" if he's the best the Republicans can come up with, the party is in trouble, Maybe sing Happy Birthday to Elvis on the day he died? or tell kids at Bunker Hill Paul Revere rode to warn the British?

What the heck happened to teaching American History? We even had a semester of Texas History as a requirement to graduate.
 
29Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 00:26
He's a flavor of the month in this thing. I imagine he'll last about as long in the spotlight as Herman Cain did.
 
30sarge33rd
      ID: 44714210
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 01:14
DS...if 10% of what you have to say, is as well stated as post 28...you would be a very welcome addition to the forum.
 
31Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 01:20
good stuff, snap.
 
32Seattle Zen
      ID: 10732616
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 12:21
A mighty "Here, here!" for Deepsnapper!
 
33Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 14:14
Now if we only hadn't driven away every republican who might have defended Perry, Deep would have had someone to debate.
 
34Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 14:15
I doubt it. Who could defend Rick Perry?
 
35Tree
      ID: 97151813
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 14:44
Glad Baldwin is taking some responsibility for driving away Republicans from this board.

Whenever a Republican posts here, they're met with with such bile and name calling from some of the members of the radical right, they often don't stick around long.
 
39Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 18:37
I highly doubt Toral is a Perry supporter.
 
40Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 18:46
Ben Stein dresses him down over Bernake/treason comments.
 
41 deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 19:24
Thanks everyone, I got so carried away posting about Perry that I forgot what topic I came to the forum to ask about to begin with. D'Oh

This is off-topic and deals more with a fanatic Tea Party member who loves Perry, but I could really use some advice in how to proceed with the situation.

I'm in the minority in Facebook (Texas) among a lot of people who were friends going all the way back to grade school. And these aren't the "million/year" crowd or in the capital gains group wjo could be taxed either. One in particular has brought racism into his "Tea Party" diatribes to the point he photo-shopped a picture of Obama in the middle of a bonfire with the caption "Burn Obama burn" om his Profile Page.

I don't know what else to do to bring this obsession down. The last "blog" was so racist, I told him this type of separatism is how the Nazi's vilified the Jews in the 30s and planted the seeds of the holocaust, was that what he wanted? That's when he posted the bonfire with President Obama in it.

I don't know whether to "unfriend" him or keep an eye on him if you know what I mean. Lavon says to unfriend and forget about him, but forgetting a problem doesn't solve it in my mind. Any suggestions would really be appreciated because I respect all of your political savvy so much.

I did report the picture to Facebook as objectionable, but who know what they'll do, I thought since it was the President, it might fall outside the 1st Amendment rights and be considered a threat on the office, but who know if or when they'll get to it or even do anything about it?

Thanks,any advice would be appreciated. ds
 
42DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 19:36
Lunatic fringe gonna lunatic fringe, and that's all there is to it. It's not like you're going to change their mind and they're not going to change yours (I hope!).

If it's possible to stay friends and just avoid political discussions altogether for the health of the relationship, that's cool. If not, then you have to ask yourself if the aggravation is worth the positives that the friendship brings. If the friendship basically consists of staying linked on Facebook, it's probably not worth it.
 
43Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 19:55
me. i wouldn't be friends with some jackass who does stuff like that.

i live in texas. i'm surrounded by intelligent and like minded folks, and can't imagine one of my friends posting a picture of Barack Obama on fire....
 
44sarge33rd
      ID: 527582118
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 19:58
Speaking for myself, as an unforgiving SoB, I have unfriended a few. Folks I had thought possessed some degree of intellectual honesty, butg their constant spouting of 10 sec sound-bites while ignoring truth; has led me to sever a few ties. (No, not because we disagreed. Because we disagreed violently. Such differences, would never ever result in a friendship 'IRL', so I saw no need to continue them on FB.
 
45Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sun, Aug 21, 2011, 23:48
snap, if I were in your shoes I would simply let him know that you feel his post is way over the line, and that you are sorry he doesn't see just how wrong it is. Post it on his wall, then defriend him.
 
46Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 15:56
Attention Governor Perry: Evolution is a fact

This piece is outstanding.
There is nothing unusual about Governor Rick Perry. Uneducated fools can be found in every country and every period of history, and they are not unknown in high office. What is unusual about today’s Republican party (I disavow the ridiculous ‘GOP’ nickname, because the party of Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt has lately forfeited all claim to be considered ‘grand’) is this: In any other party and in any other country, an individual may occasionally rise to the top in spite of being an uneducated ignoramus. In today’s Republican Party ‘in spite of’ is not the phrase we need. Ignorance and lack of education are positive qualifications, bordering on obligatory. Intellect, knowledge and linguistic mastery are mistrusted by Republican voters, who, when choosing a president, would apparently prefer someone like themselves over someone actually qualified for the job.

There are many reasons to vote against Rick Perry. His fatuous stance on the teaching of evolution in schools is perhaps not the first reason that springs to mind. But maybe it is the most telling litmus test of the other reasons, and it seems to apply not just to him but, lamentably, to all the likely contenders for the Republican nomination. The ‘evolution question’ deserves a prominent place in the list of questions put to candidates in interviews and public debates during the course of the coming election.
 
47sarge33rd
      ID: 52744259
      Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 16:21
great link SZ!

Most telling paragraph to me?\

The population of the United States is more than 300 million and it includes some of the best and brightest that the human species has to offer, probably more so than any other country in the world. There is surely something wrong with a system for choosing a leader when, given a pool of such talent and a process that occupies more than a year and consumes billions of dollars, what rises to the top of the heap is George W Bush. Or when the likes of Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin can be mentioned as even remote possibilities.
 
48deepsnapper
      ID: 5681110
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 11:03
Thanks ppl. The same old crap is going on even in the group. I'm just not going to argue with people who gush over photoshopped pictures and propoganda as the truth. If they want to get real, listen to what was said between Cheney & Powell this past weekend. But that's too close to the real truth about the Bush 43 admin, their new "Regan". OMG just shoot me now.

Thanks again for the advice. Finished G24, A 12 team, & like 15 rounds of RIFC this week so I apologize for not getting back for your responses earlier, I'm just unfriending the whole bunch. In-breeding in Wichita Falls has evidently bred stupidity (see "The Last Picture Show b/w 1973" shot in WF & Archer Ciy{ (10 mi So.) My older sister moved back, that's enough proof for me. ugh.
 
49sarge33rd
      ID: 20835110
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 11:37
and btw Deep, welcome to the Politics Forum.
 
50Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 15:19
A. There are all kinds of smarts, intelligence, shrewdness, common sense, street smarts, areas of genius, and most importantly wisdom.

B. Your major in women's studies doesn't impress me much.

C. People who learned from the 20th century after watching Lenin and Stalin and Mao and Kim Il Sung and Castro and Pol Pot that what we need is more marxism shouldn't be throwing stones out of their glass houses. If those numbers didn't add up to a workers paradise how many millions do you expect you will need to kill?
 
51Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 15:25
A. A respect for science and its process, however, is not at odds with any of these, despite what the current anti-intellectuals leading your party would say.

B. Who, exactly, is this directed to?

C. Until you understand the difference between Marxism and Obama, this point will continue to elude you.
 
52Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 15:40
A. Tell it to the Hadley Center.

B. 'Progressives'.

C. He is nothing more or less than a marxist following the Alinski/Gramsci model.
 
53Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 16:03
ROFL! Nice blanket statements of your biases. Heh heh.

You really gotta love the First Amendment, in which such crank ideas get aired.
 
54Tree
      ID: 19841115
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 16:43
That's it, i'm suing you Baldwin!
 
55Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 16:48
It was really directed at SZ's link, btw, PD.
 
56sarge33rd
      ID: 20835110
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 17:18
Too bad B...evolution IS a fact.

Evolution, is why antibiotics lose their ability to help, why insecticides, lose their lethality, why herbicides, lose their lethality.

Nobody, NOBODY, with more than 1 digit in their IQ; disputes that.
 
57Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 22:18
That depends on how you rigidly you define evolution. You know perfectly well that there is no shortage of scientists who believe in a God and a creator. Masterworks look easy until you try them yourself.
 
58Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 22:20
Sarge

Do you think bili's scientist father has a double digit IQ?
 
59sarge33rd
      ID: 20835110
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 22:25
I do not think bilis father, would deny evolution as a fact. And no, there are no shortages of Christians who are also scientists. The two, are not mutually exclusive. I would suggets, the author of the linked article informing Perry that evolution is fact, is a scientist in their own right. Few others, could so easily define the weaknesses of bad theory vs the strengths of good theory.
 
60Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 01, 2011, 23:01
Perry's problem isn't his belief about evolution. Or that everything he believes comes from his religious faith.

It is that he wants all of us to believe the exact same thing, in the exact way. And he wants to use the power of government to make that happen.

Let's not let the current GOP fixation with disproving the facts of evolution take away from the Right's interest in forcing their version of Christianity on the country (in fact, I'd let Michael Dowd take on the Right's currect false dichotomy of faith and science--he's very good at it.)
 
61Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 01:50
I don't have any conflict between true science and faith. It's when little corners of science become faith based belief systems going beyond the evidence that I start pulling back.
 
62biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 09:35
My Dad, though he does believe in god, has no doubts at all on evolution.

He was appalled to hear Romney vacillating on evolution.
 
63Frick
      ID: 387512315
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 10:04
You also need to make the distinction between believers who believe the written bible is absolute fact and those who believe it is a collection of stories with errors, hyperbole and bias included.
 
64Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 10:08
Exactly which rigid definition of evolution do you oppose, Boldwin?
 
65Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 10:47
MITH

The one which insists that there is no intelligence behind it. The one which can look at a cell which is more complicated than a city and think it is just a lipid shell that got ambitious.
 
66sarge33rd
      ID: 4380210
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:00
IOW the one with generations of science behind it.
 
67Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:04
So the science, to be valid, has to be based upon faith?

Seriously?
 
68Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:17
I love these debates. But when you boil it all down here is what you get:

Evolution and the processes that contribute to it are facts which can be scientifically proven with empirical evidence.


Faith is a belief that all these facts happen because God started the processes which we can empirically define.
 
69Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:24
"Twice this morning on ABC I heard the storm referred to as having emotions. “The ire of Irene,” (OK, I see the alliterary appeal) and “the wrath of the storm.”

Folks, don’t anthropomorphize rotational fluid dynamics. The storm didn’t really have it in for anyone, honest. Besides, it hates when you do that." - Rand Simberg
Applies elswhere in nature as well.
 
70Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:29
That's not strict adherance to evolutionary theory.

That's misrepresenting evolutionary theory for the purpose of supporting atheism.
 
71Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:43
Khahan

Did you know that statistically speaking, things which are more unlikely than 1 in 1050 are impossible even over the entire timespan of the universe?
"At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt"....... I.L. Cohen, Researcher and Mathematician; Member NY Academy of Sciences; Officer of the Archaeological Inst. of America; "Darwin Was Wrong - A Study in Probabilities"; New Research Publications, 1984, p. 4
I also believe in the discovery of artifacts.

Unlike evolutionists I don't have unlimited faith that the universe both contains the second law of thermodynamics and some unknown unthinking natural principle forcing life into ever more improbable complexity.
 
72Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:48
I don't think you have a cleat idea of what "evolutionists" have faith in.
 
73Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:54
If evolutionists found a seemingly related chain of life that started out as a toaster and ended up a fusion reactor, they'd tell you with a straight face that it wasn't just likely given the age of the universe, but that that fusion reactor probably had a twin across the universe looking back at it.

With faith, all things are possible.
 
74Frick
      ID: 387512315
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 11:55
I think it is an interesting debate, but remember that we have had multiple generations that have "known" that they have figured out their world and the Universe. But looking back on them later, their beliefs appear to be comical at best. Do we truly understand the world and the Universe today? Not really, we think we understand parts, but there is a thought that all of the parts tie together in some way that we don't currently understand.

That doesn't mean that the God depicted in the bible exists, but I also won't rule out the possibility that there are entities or powers that are beyond our ability to comprehend. I can't remember the author, but technology advanced far enough can only be explained by magic to the unknowing observer.
 
75Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 12:09
With faith, all things are possible.

Except, of course, taking "evolutionists" and climate scientists at face value or in good faith.
 
76Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 12:33
climate scientists at face value or in good faith

this has nothing to do with religious faith.
 
77Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 12:48
I just love it when someone puts the term 'good faith' in with the sole number source for the AGW hoax, and who refuse to share raw data with other scientists even when court ordered to do so.
 
78Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 12:58
FRK

Scientists currently believe over 96% of the universe exists as some dark matter/dark energy components which probably don't even exist in our most common 4 dimensions...and that intelligent life develops almost like weeds...and that anytime they run into a scientific problem they can invent new 'multiverses' to explain them away...

But also that there is no ultimate intelligence in or outside this universe cooresponding to God and no such thing as a spirit dimension to the universe.
 
79sarge33rd
      ID: 4380210
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 13:23
Such a blanket statement B. On the one hand, you earlier, and I agreed, said that multiple scientists ARE Christi9an. Now in the above post, you blanket condemn "scientists" for "creating" multi-verses to explain what is currently unexplainable.

OK....and Christiandom hasnt done the same thing? "Free Will", explains away a LOT of the seeming contradictions. What is that, if not the same thing you accuse "scientists" of doing?
 
80Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 13:31
and who refuse to share raw data with other scientists even when court ordered to do so.

This is a lie. It seems you've gotten your meme's mixed up.

There is far too much misinformation you are using to come up with your wacky theories.

#76: The term "in good faith" is not a religious term. Though the Christianists would have you believe that the only way to project science is through the lens of their narrow Christian view.
 
81Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 02, 2011, 13:46
highly disturbing series of emails which show how Dr Jones and his colleagues have for years been discussing the devious tactics whereby they could avoid releasing their data to outsiders under freedom of information laws.

They have come up with every possible excuse for concealing the background data on which their findings and temperature records were based.

This in itself has become a major scandal, not least Dr Jones's refusal to release the basic data from which the CRU derives its hugely influential temperature record, which culminated last summer in his startling claim that much of the data from all over the world had simply got "lost". Most incriminating of all are the emails in which scientists are advised to delete large chunks of data, which, when this is done after receipt of a freedom of information request, is a criminal offence.

But the question which inevitably arises from this systematic refusal to release their data is – what is it that these scientists seem so anxious to hide? The second and most shocking revelation of the leaked documents is how they show the scientists trying to manipulate data through their tortuous computer programmes, always to point in only the one desired direction – to lower past temperatures and to "adjust" recent temperatures upwards, in order to convey the impression of an accelerated warming. This comes up so often (not least in the documents relating to computer data in the Harry Read Me file) that it becomes the most disturbing single element of the entire story. This is what Mr McIntyre caught Dr Hansen doing with his GISS temperature record last year (after which Hansen was forced to revise his record), and two further shocking examples have now come to light from Australia and New Zealand.

In each of these countries it has been possible for local scientists to compare the official temperature record with the original data on which it was supposedly based. In each case it is clear that the same trick has been played – to turn an essentially flat temperature chart into a graph which shows temperatures steadily rising. And in each case this manipulation was carried out under the influence of the CRU.

What is tragically evident from the Harry Read Me file is the picture it gives of the CRU scientists hopelessly at sea with the complex computer programmes they had devised to contort their data in the approved direction, more than once expressing their own desperation at how difficult it was to get the desired results.

The third shocking revelation of these documents is the ruthless way in which these academics have been determined to silence any expert questioning of the findings they have arrived at by such dubious methods – not just by refusing to disclose their basic data but by discrediting and freezing out any scientific journal which dares to publish their critics' work. It seems they are prepared to stop at nothing to stifle scientific debate in this way, not least by ensuring that no dissenting research should find its way into the pages of IPCC reports.

Back in 2006, when the eminent US statistician Professor Edward Wegman produced an expert report for the US Congress vindicating Steve McIntyre's demolition of the "hockey stick", he excoriated the way in which this same "tightly knit group" of academics seemed only too keen to collaborate with each other and to "peer review" each other's papers in order to dominate the findings of those IPCC reports on which much of the future of the US and world economy may hang. In light of the latest revelations, it now seems even more evident that these men have been failing to uphold those principles which lie at the heart of genuine scientific enquiry and debate. Already one respected US climate scientist, Dr Eduardo Zorita, has called for Dr Mann and Dr Jones to be barred from any further participation in the IPCC. - Telegraph
 
82Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Sep 03, 2011, 10:13
The controversy has thus focused on a small number of emails.[29] Skeptic websites picked out particular phrases, including one in which Kevin Trenberth stated, "The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t".[20] This was actually part of a discussion on the need for better monitoring of energy flows involved in short-term climate variability,[30] but was grossly mischaracterised by critics.[31][32]

Many commentators quoted one email referring to "Mike's Nature trick" which Jones used in a 1999 graph for the World Meteorological Organization, to deal with the well-discussed tree ring divergence problem "to hide the decline" that a particular proxy showed for modern temperatures after 1950, when measured temperatures were rising. These two phrases from the emails were also taken out of context by climate change sceptics including US Senator Jim Inhofe and former Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin as though they referred to a decline in measured global temperatures, even though they were written when temperatures were at a record high.[32] John Tierney, writing in the New York Times in November 2009, said that the claims by sceptics of "hoax" or "fraud" were incorrect, but the graph on the cover of a report for policy makers and journalists did not show these non-experts where proxy measurements changed to measured temperatures.[33] The final analyses from various subsequent inquiries concluded that in this context 'trick' was normal scientific or mathematical jargon for a neat way of handling data, in this case a statistical method used to bring two or more different kinds of data sets together in a legitimate fashion.[34][35] The EPA notes that in fact, the evidence shows that the research community was fully aware of these issues and was not hiding or concealing them.
 
83Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Sep 03, 2011, 10:16
The strongest argument in favor of climate change might be the pathetic, shameless and dishonest attempts of those who are happy to lie and ruin careers to support their agenda.
 
84Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 03, 2011, 10:20
Any scientist who refuses to share his data even going so far as to destroy his data rather than divulge them under court order, should have his career abruptly terminated.
 
85Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Sep 03, 2011, 10:26
I'll listen to the story about hiding and destroying data from a source which isn't already deliberately misrepresenting the content of the hacked emails, thank you.

Look at how happy you are to see people's work discredited and their lives destroyed based on the word of a someone already shown to be distorting the truth on this matter - because it suits your political agenda, Christian.
 
86sarge33rd
      ID: 45838311
      Sat, Sep 03, 2011, 12:52
TX to miss out on gulf storm rain

OK, IF Bachmann was right and God is using storms to talk to our politicians...

and IF Perry was so close to God that God told him to run for the Presidency as he has claimed...

Then what is Gods message in answering Perrys very public prayer to end the drought; in His sending a tropical storm to hit LA and FL but not share any rain with TX?
 
87Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 22:19
Obama removes a huge club Perry would have used on him. He still will point to the mistaken energy regulation regime Obama was planning for Texas.

Enviroweenies seethe.
 
88sarge33rd
      ID: 3384411
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 22:24
you couldnt mischaracterize things more, if you set put deliberately to do so.

Besides, only thing Perry will achieve with any club, is to break his own foot.
 
89Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 22:25
you couldnt mischaracterize things more, if you set put deliberately to do so.

You are kidding yourself if you don't think that's exactly what he tries to do with every post he makes.
 
90Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 23:00
Set me straight. Why did Obama finally ease up on Texas energy?
 
91sarge33rd
      ID: 3384411
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 23:05
Texas energy? He eased up on ALL energy and clean air requirements. Ostensibly, for jobs creation purposes. *shrug*

Silly me, I always thought coal was a heavy duty VA and WV energy. I didnt know those two states had ceded their entities to Texas.
 
92Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Sun, Sep 04, 2011, 23:10
Obama's biggest flaw is that he keeps kowtowing to the radical right, who are more and more showing themselves to be idiots and liars in every possible way imaginable.

it pains me that he keeps doing this stuff, because you'd think he learns that no matter what he does to appease the Baldwin's of the world, they'll come up with something else imaginary to slam him for.
 
93Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 00:25
I'll say this for Perry, every time he opens his mouth lately on the topic of immigration, I'm shocked at how reasonable he sounds. That'll likely be the thing that eventually knocks him off the top o the GOP candidates' totem pole.
 
94Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 00:42
He may be a talented pol, but he has an impossible balance between the insiders he is shilling for and the base he is posing for.

It is assumed he and Bachmann are playing the same game but she is identical to her base. She is the real deal.
 
95sarge33rd
      ID: 3384411
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 01:04
Sooooo he's just playing the idiot, while she IS an idiot?
 
96Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 01:31
His talent is part natural, especially for his region, and part incidental to the political climate and the hard right's susceptibility to the latest flavor.

I think he's probably stupid. Unlike Palin, whom I think is just disinterested in the issues because she is driven more by vanity than anything else. And unlike Bachman who seems stupid to some because her politics are extreme, she's gaffe-prone, and she likes to talk in that pseudo-Christian vernacular the hard right loves to hear but non-evangelicals often don't understand or don't know when or how much to take seriously.
 
97Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 06:00
I could just as well point out that virtually everyone in the Dem constellation is a stupid marxist. Some consciously evil, morally stupid and heartless, some well-meaning but soft-headed and misled.
 
98soxzeitgeist
      ID: 4282958
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 09:31
And ultimately, posts like this are why I do far more lurking and almost no posting here anymore.

I don't have words for how furious it makes me when a self professed "Christian", who doesn't vote and has never done a day of military or public service, feels comfortable behind his computer keyboard calling "virtually everyone in the Dem constellation...a stupid marxist. Some consciously evil, morally stupid and heartless, some well-meaning but soft-headed and misled."

I would wager that in every useful metric, almost every Progressive leaning poster here has made more tangible contributions in their community than you have, B. If you really don't give a sh*t about anything else but breathlessly waiting for the Rapture, (IMO more to smugly tell each and every one of us "nah nah nah nah nah, I told you so) then give it a rest. It's exhausting listening to someone who doesn't participate complain about the outcome. Whether you are aware of it or not, you seem to be the very embodiment of the whiny, sissified, entitled, "soft headed" segment of the populace you so often criticize.

Sorry to all for b*tching so, I just don't get why these forums continue to indulge B on any issues other than roto league sports.
 
99Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 10:02
no apology needed. you're right on point, including your final one, but especially your first one.
 
100Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 13:26
I'm not sure why a post about 3 particular republican candidates is in any way analogous to the charge that liberalism is so generally flawed that every person who upholds liberal ideals is either stupid or evil.

It's hard to have a civil discussion with someone who will be compelled to remind you every so often they he thinks youre stupid or worse ans clearly doesn't respect you or anyone who thinks like you.
 
101Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 13:33
Yeah, it makes perfect sense for you to weigh in in which precise flavor of stupidity each republican candidate displays and yet when you have the same mirrored right back attcha you don't even recognize yourself in the mirror.
 
102Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 13:37
When your debating partner goes absurdly off course it is usually a good tactic to throw their own absurdity back at them so they can recognize just how absurd they are being, but when your 'partner' is so @#$%^ that he can't make out the clear analogy whatchagonnado?
 
103Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 13:44
whatchagonnado?

If we're lucky what you'll do is leave and never come back.

I'm with soxzeitgeist. I read this board every single day. I don't bother to give my opinions on things because every comment here has 2 possible outcomes: Boldwin tells you how brilliant Republicans are or he tells you how all liberals are commies, Socialists, or Marxists. And it doesn't even matter what the topic is. It always results in one of those 2 outcomes.
 
104Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 13:55
Here's a hint. When a post begins, "I could just as well point out"...

...there is something analogous coming.
 
105Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:08
Farn

Since there are only three candidates on the republican side I can even stand...

...and since I was one of the first on the right anywhere on the internet to point out Bush was a neocon out to destroy the Reagan revolution...

...and since I was bashing McCain almost a decade before he ran for president...

...it is pretty silly to maintain that my default position is that republicans are brilliant.
 
106Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:26
weigh in in which precise flavor of stupidity each republican candidate displays and yet when you have the same mirrored right back attcha...

I think you should read more slowly.

Sarge called Perry (in this thread about Rick Perry) and Bachmann stupid.

I weighed in on that, adding Palin, another common target of stupidity accusations. I have no idea how that amounts to bringing a discussion absurdly off course. What more apropriate topic did I detour us from? Obama?

Further, what I said about Bachman and Palin are that they are specifically not stupid, offering my thoughts on why they are perceived that way.

But more to the point, nothing I wrote was a general indictment of conservatism, itself. In point of fact I know and know of plenty of conservatives I highly respect, without having to dismiss them as stupid or evil or misled and without having to make excuses for their ideology.

It isn't necessary for me to dismiss everyone who disagrees with me on the proper role of government as unworthy of my respect. I've always found so harshly judging people by their politics (not to mention whining that I said unflattering things about his favorite political candidates) to be very strange from someone who wears his Christianity on his sleeve to the point that he tells us from the other side of his mouth that politics is of a world which he is no part of, and therefore not his concern.

Lurkers decide for yourselves which end of that pile the steam is coming from.

But Boldwin is not allowed to get away with dismissing that post as "throwing absurdity back". He doesnt think characterizing everyone who disagrees with his politics as evil and/or stupid is the least bit absurd. It's been a go-to (and a bail-out) argument for over a decade now and if he didn't think it were true there would be dozens of such iterations scattered throughout this forum.

Like I said, it's very difficult to have a civil discussion with someone who openly does not respect you.
 
107Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:29
if he didn't think it were true there wouldn't be dozens of such iterations scattered throughout this forum.
 
108Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:45
Looking back, I dont even think I said anything particularly unflattering about Bachmann. That she's gaffe-prone? As I distinguish gaffe-prone from stupidity. The pseudo-Christian vernacular is something that even Boldwin has acknowledged in the past week. And I wouldn't think an observation that the hard right likes to hear it, or one that the non-evangelicals don't understand it would be unflattering, either.
 
109Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:47
So when Perry or Bachmann or Palin reads MITH#96 they will feel they can have a substantive debate on the issues with you and not be met with pure ad hominem?
 
110Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:50
Stupid, vainglorious and gaffe-prone are not your introduction speech as you host the republican debates.

Or are they?
 
111Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 14:57
Stupid, vainglorious and gaffe-prone are not your introduction speech as you host the republican debates.

even if you disagree with MITH's assessments of the Republican candidates, i'm not sure why you have any issue with said assessments.

after all, your assessments and name-calling of Obama couldn't be more off the mark, and more dishonest. from socialist to marxist to muslim to not-American born, you couldn't give an honest description of President Obama if it were handed to you.
 
112Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 15:19
I can even guess MITH's outfit as he hosts the debates. "I'm with stupid" t-shirt under tux.
 
113Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 15:42
Clearly my post shot way over his head. There's nothing I wrote that needs to be explained further. And I haven't a clue what logical counterpoints he thinks he is making. It's apropriate to so blanket-characterize the whole of the American left in response to my musings about 3 particular candidates? The civility standard is that we must discuss GOP candidates (or ones that Boldy likes) as if we were respectfully and objectively moderating a debate between them?

I'm imagine he'll say next that's precisely the standard he's upheld in discussing marxis- er, Democrats here for the past decade.
 
114Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 15:51
The civility standard is that we must discuss GOP candidates (or ones that Boldy likes) as if we were respectfully and objectively moderating a debate between them?


well, considering Baldwin has now compared himself to Jesus, i'm pretty sure you're being blasphemous to the Lord him(her?)self when you're discussing the intelligence, or lack of intelligence, of Michelle Bachmann.
 
115Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 16:02
I'm not discussing any lack of intelligence on her part. I made comments on why I think people see her as unintelligent, none of which were that she is unintelligent.

B, who has never shied away from calling others thinned skin when they object to his criticisms, now wants it to be out of bounds to refer to a gaffe-prone politician as gaffe-prone?
 
116Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 16:20
I'm not discussing any lack of intelligence on her part.

fair enough. sorry for my gaffe.
 
123Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 09:35
even if you disagree with MITH's assessments of the Republican candidates, i'm not sure why you have any issue with said assessments.

I agree with MITH's review of these candidates. My problem is not with how people perceive their personalities. My problem is with the fact that they are perceived as relevant candidates at all.

We have other viable candidates that the media is completely ignoring. Romney is falling out of media darling coverage. Huntsman never gained traction. IMHO, both of them have a more legit chance to rival Obama (though Romney did make a few small misteps but nothing that should knock him out of media attention and Huntsman seems a better candidate).

But maybe thats the problem.
 
124Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 10:37
I certainly think part of it is the media--their insistence on reporting on the primary as some sort of horse race really sets the tone for breatheless prose about the minutia of the daily leader.

Good, widely available information on the candidates is hard to find to all the dross.

 
125soxzeitgeist
      ID: 30822617
      Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 18:23
It is absolutely the media. Although it's not the way you think.

It's because we've become (by and large) a nation that is salivating over the next reality show star.

A good looking, June Cleaver/Stepford wife type, a "mother of 28" who fears God and loves the Founders.

C'mon, what could be better? She's a producers dream, always poised to say or do something whacky. It's actually brilliant - the media is unwilling or unable to turn it's attention elsewhere (especially when she's surrounded by a stage full of old, rumpled, slightly sour white guys who resent having her there). While we laugh at her, she's gobbling up the votes of all the other hardcore Left Behind social conservatives, not just because they Believe, but because they have found a voice that can stick it to the elites/infidels.

She's dangerous and crazy, but don't underestimate her charisma.
 
126Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 07:33
She is a young developing Ronald Reagan.
 
127biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 09:27
Must. Resist. Joke.

You really gotta stop setting me up like that. I'm generally not that mean spirited to take advantage of the huge opening.
 
128DWetzel
      ID: 53326279
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 11:15
I'm not.

It's a little early for the dementia to have set in, isn't it?

(Probably not where you were going, but what the hey.)
 
129sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 11:18
There is NOBODY, currently declared as a Rep. candidate, with the possible exception of Huntsman, who bears the slightest resemblance to a "Ronald Reagan". Certainly, none of the female candidates.
 
130Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 11:31
Romney's not so different in my opinion. Reagan also flip-flopped on at least one major principle to broaden his appeal. I think the differences are that the GOP base he had to appease wasn't nearly as puritanical and that the more general political climate in Reagan's day was not nearly so strictly party-driven.
 
131sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 11:50
I dont see Romney as much of a compromiser. Maybe I'm wrong there, or maybe its like you say...todays base calls for such bile filled rhetoric, that it gives the wrong impression to the remainder of us.
 
132Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 12:11
She is a young developing Ronald Reagan.

The 2012 GOP Field: Not Even Ronald Reagan Could Get This Nomination

a little article on how clueless you are with this proclamation.

and in case you can't be bothered to follow the link, here are two of the more "money" lines from it:

Don't get me wrong - I never was a fan of Ronald Reagan and and his policies. But I miss the days when believing in science and being able to do basic budget math didn't make you a radical Socialist.

and

Reagan, a savvy politician, rode to power on the money of corporate America and the passion of an increasingly politicized Religious Right - and, for the most part, gave both groups enough of what they wanted once he was in office to keep them both happy. But he also bucked those interests at some important points. Contrary to current Reagan hagiography, he raised taxes 11 times during his eight years in office - including the largest corporate tax hike in American history - when it became clear that pure trickle-down economics would be disastrous for the economy. And in 1981, over the objections of anti-choice groups, he nominated the highly qualified and politically moderate Sandra Day O'Connor to serve on the Supreme Court.
 
133Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 12:13
I don't have examples to provide but my recollection is that Romney was much more moderate in 2007, 08 than he is trying to appear today. It's really hard for Republicans in this climate. It seems that in order to get anywhere you have to sell your soul to the fundamentalist right, probably making yourself unacceptable to moderate voters.

The only pol i can think of who seems to have mostly moderate ideals and has managed the trick is Gov Christie, who pulls it off with major spending cuts and sufficiently surly behavior.
 
134Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 12:40
It's really hard for Republicans in this climate. It seems that in order to get anywhere you have to sell your soul to the fundamentalist right, probably making yourself unacceptable to moderate voters

I think this comes back to the point I was making earlier. Moderates don't sell newspapers or TV ad time. The media is deciding who we get to choose from (and I do feel there are plenty of stations that are happy to choose weaker candidates because they are weaker and have less chance against Obama) rather than the GoP.

Winning the GoP nomination means nothing if the candidate can't beat Obama. Of course, being able to beat Obama means nothing if you can't win the GoP nomination. But maybe its time the vocal minority in the GoP shuts up and lets the rest of us pick the candidate. We'll pick one who can beat Obama then both sides of that equation win.
 
135Razor
      ID: 33520166
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 12:47
I'd say Romney has a great shot at winning in 2012. Perry has a decent one, sadly. Bacchman and paul don't really have one.

After spending 3 months in London this summer, I now realize how poor the American media is.
 
136sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:03
money quote Tree,

Listen tonight as you hear the homage to Ronald Reagan and consider how radical this party has actually become. {emphasis added}
 
137Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:04
I think public opinion among the GOP s still very fluid and that it isnt too late at all for a current dark horse to make a run up the poll rankings.
 
138Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:08
If there is any justice in the system Perry has already hit his high mark and the Tea Party will wake up and wonder what they were drinking last night and how much when they fell for that one.
 
139Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:15
Unfortunately many in the Tea Party are looking more for a political savior than anything else--that's why they seem to be lurching from one flavor-of-the-week to the next.

Maybe as votes actually start getting counted they will get a little more serious about things. And hopefully (for them) Palin will make a statement that she's definitely out of the race.
 
140Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:16
Well, there are still some things Boldwin and I agree on in the GoP. Perry is a horrible candidate.

I'm hoping these debates are good old fashioned 'candidate debates' and not staged media parties. If they are staged media parties then Bachman and Perry will be crowned king and queen for the off-the-wall radical behavior.

If they are more old fashioned, "lets see who is really the best" then bachman and Perry will fall flat (if not this one, down the road) as their theatrics will soon separate them from the rest of the pack not in a good way.
 
141Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:23
Boldwin, why do you think more tea partiers prefer Perry over Bachmann?

Flavor of the month syndrome? Sexism? A specific policy issue? A personality chord he hits better than she does?
 
142Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:24
I actually think Perry's got decent chances of winning. I just think it would be a disaster for all sides.

Since he isn't a conservative his policies wouldn't work, disaster for everyone, and conservatives would get blamed for the results thus damaging conservatism. Much as Bush's embracing of overspending squandered so much of the republican's previously well deserved reputation while not being representative of conservatism.
 
143Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 13:36
MITH

1) Because the media is telling them he's the only electable 'Tea Party' [supposedly] candidate in the field.

2) Because they haven't taken a good hard look in the morning light.

3) He's a governor. Voters in general like to see executive exerience on the resume for president.

4) Texas has one of only a handful of encouraging stories of coping with the depression. Mitch Daniels and Chris Christy would have also had this going for them but Texas outshines the rest put together. Which has more to do with Texas than Perry btw.

5) Perry doesn't have 99% of the media making scary sounds and faces at him like Bachmann does.

6) Bachmann understand how truly desperate these times are. Perry is all 'sunshine in the morning'. Optimism beats honesty in this case [and desperation to turn the Titanic around this second before the ripping sound starts].
 
144Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 14:18
The debates with Demint and King asking the questions will be very very helpful to Bachmann and deadly to Perry I hope. I am guessing he really really needs to visit a Texas wildfire that day.
 
145Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 14:35
Post 143:

#s 1 & 5:
Does any significant portion of the media that the tea party cares about do these things? Anything resembling the recent Newsweek cover of Bachmann seems more likely to give a pol a boost among tea partiers. I thought the tea party was supposed to be a class of voters immune to lame-stream propaganda.

#2
This sounds like a nicer way of admitting they are at least partially suckered by the latest fashions.

#s 3 & 4:
Good points. I personally don't believe Texas under Perry qualifies as a success but I understand the rightist-media-driven traction of that meme.

#6:
I think that qualifies as striking a better personality chord. Not exactly what I had in mind but I don't know that I disagree.

I wouldn't attribute Perry's rise to sexism, either. Especially because most of his rise in the polls since officially announcing his candidacy appears on behalf of people who supported Bachmann a few weeks earlier. But Im pretty certain that if we were examining the same type of dynamic in a Democratic Party nomination race, charges of sexism would be prominent in your narrative.
 
146Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 15:28
Oh, dear.
 
147Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 16:02
In any case, if the liberal media does influence tea party voters in the way Boldwin believes, I think it likely they can also be counted on to level the playing field among GOP contenders.
 
148Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 16:11
Texas has one of only a handful of encouraging stories of coping with the depression

the details of these "encouraging stories" have been posted and discussed here.

it's window dressing, and not real.
 
149Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 16:16
Oh, dear.

as funny as that image is, it's just a photoshopped image incorporating Perry's "Corn Dog Moment" from last month.

personally, i'm partial to the Michelle Bachmann "Corn Dog Moment", but i'm not convinced it's not photoshopped a bit as well...

 
150sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 18:42
TX wildfire

Friend of mine in Tyler, TX...says Perry has cut Fire Public Safety funding by 75% over the past two years. (Unsubstantiated by me.)
 
151sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 19:10
cant find a 75% reduction in TX budget here, but I did find where they were looking at returning the budget to 2008 levels. Meanhwile, Gov Perrys solution to the wildfire/drought dilemma? "Pray for rain"



link
 
152Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 19:16
I wouldn't attribute Perry's rise to sexism, either. Especially because most of his rise in the polls since officially announcing his candidacy appears on behalf of people who supported Bachmann a few weeks earlier. But Im pretty certain that if we were examining the same type of dynamic in a Democratic Party nomination race, charges of sexism would be prominent in your narrative. - MITH

You do understand that the right thinks that the left's constant blathering about sexism and racism are pure unadulterated irrelevant and mostly non-existent BS, right?

I guarantee you that the Tea Party couldn't care less what race and gender the candidates are in either party and are laughing thru their hats when the media speculates about it.
 
153Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 19:23
In any case, if the liberal media does influence tea party voters in the way Boldwin believes, I think it likely they can also be counted on to level the playing field among GOP contenders. - MITH

1) The lamestream doesn't influence the TP's principles and beliefs and affections one iota.

2) On the otherhand they have to do real math. The constant lamestream drumbeat of 'Borking' and 'Dan Quayle'ing' has an effect on electibility even when it doesn't efffect the right. The TP isn't immune to worries about throwing away their votes Don Quixote style, especially when it would mean 4 more years of marxist mischief thruout the administration and government agencies.
 
154sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 19:35
cept, we have yet seen 4 years of...let alone, 4 more years of....

simple truth B..ought to try it...once anyway...just to do something different...ya know?
 
155soxzeitgeist
      ID: 47823719
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 20:23
It's comments like the ones B makes regularly that make me glad to be a gun owning Progressive.

Mostly for the zombie apocalypse, but more and more I wonder about the far Right.

Offered strictly tounge in cheek.
 
156sarge33rd
      ID: 37818710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 20:25
re your 2nd line....Is there really a difference?
 
157soxzeitgeist
      ID: 47823719
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 20:31
*laughing*

I think so sarge. I'm pretty sure Tea Party types aren't actually eating brains yet. Fears of a socialist conspiracy to force Progressive thoughts into the diet or something like that.
 
158Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 20:43
It's comments like the ones B makes regularly that make me glad to be a gun owning Progressive.

but you can't own a gun. liberals or progressive's don't like guns. Baldwin said so. it's plain and simple.


Mostly for the zombie apocalypse, but more and more I wonder about the far Right.

interestingly, i want to learn how to use a gun for the same two reasons, although i think the zombie apocalypse and the far right wing meltdown i.e. Civil War II are pretty much neck-and-neck.

on a side note, one of the two jobs in my career path that i've made it to the final cut for, is with a large firearms/weapons/all-around-cool McGyver kind of stuff seller.
 
159Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 21:02
I imagine Sox has just spilled the beans on the alternative universe 'Oathkeepers'. Only in his they promise to betray the constitution and arrest loyal Americans. Secret passwords - "I for one welcome our marxist overloards."
 
160soxzeitgeist
      ID: 4084720
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 21:04
I find no incongruity in wishing for universal healthcare, saving the environment, extending marriage rights to loving gay couples and having lust in my heart for a new Bushmaster AR to match my Mossy 20 GA, Savage 270, Mini 14 and P95.

Oh yeah, I'm ready for those zombies.

And cardio. Lots of cardio. :)
 
161soxzeitgeist
      ID: 4084720
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 21:17
*laughing* (to tears, by the way)

B, I'll let my oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic... (and to) bear true faith and allegiance to the same..." that I took once as a teen and again in my thirties, speak as my bona fides.

Participate in a meaningful way, do something - ANYTHING - in the civic arena. Hiding behind your keyboard, questioning a persons loyalty to the Constitution because they're not in lockstep with you is cowardly. Put your money where your mouth is, or do some work with that faith of yours, then we'll have something to actually talk about.
 
162Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 22:39
Glad I could entertain. ;>
 
163Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 23:10
162 as a response to 161 speaks volumes to challenge presented by Sox. it will go unanswered, i am sure.

(BTW, today i helped deliver nearly 1,000 pounds of pet food to a local pet food pantry, and also helped out at a local church, putting school donated new school clothes together for kids who can't afford them)

yep, Baldwin, i was in a church. two days in a row, in fact.
 
166Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 09:53
oh, more truth and reality in regards to job creation in Texas?

an increase in taxes and...*gasp* an investment in education.

Texas opted to invest in education in a major way. It reformed how teachers were evaluated and paid, and raised the bar at schools throughout the state. The university systems recruited scholars and invested in buildings and programs, and reputations rose nationwide.

All that was expensive, and a big tax increase was approved under Bill Clements, the late Republican governor. The state also approved a levy on oil and gas to create the rainy-day fund. Those decisions helped Texas stand out and paid off handsomely.
 
167Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 11:08
and Rick Perry's budget "solutions"?

Rick Perry's Budget Leaves Texans In Bind Amidst Historic Wildfires

The Texas Forest Service's funding was sliced from $117.7 million to $83 million. More devastating cuts hit the assistance grants to volunteer fire departments around the state. Those grants were slashed 55 percent from $30 million per year in 2010 and 2011 to $13.5 million per year in 2012 and 2013. Those cuts are effective now.
 
168Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 11:16
Perry's rejection of the rainy day fund for Texas is kinda ironic, then?
 
169Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 11:25
The single most amazing fact about Texas' recovery from this depression is that they did it under very onerous federal restrictions on the Texas oil industry. Had Obama and his regulators left Texas alone, we'd all have been considering moving to Texas, not just Tree.
 
170Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 11:29
Many people have. It shows how deep the recession actually is for many people that they would move to Texas despite the fact that the jobs, by and large, are crappy ones.

Perry will not win a general election against Obama, however, despite the Texas economy because of his wacky ideas about the death penalty and Social Security.
 
171Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 12:06
Agreed. It says more about the economy than it does a recovery in Texas that people are choosing a decent prospect for low-wage employment with scant opportunity for middle class advancement over their current situations. NYC would be a much better option if it wasnt so expensive to live here.
 
172Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 12:47
169 to 171 are all right on, and i can speak on it as someone who did leave NYC for Texas.

i left NYC because it was expensive, and because i was out of work for a year, literally spending my entire life savings while looking for a job in those 12 months.

i moved to Texas and found work within two months. it was low paying, but i was the first paycheck i had in well over a year, so it was welcomed.

three months later i was laid off.

shortly after that, i got work as a contractual writer. it paid VERY well, and was a great, albeit intense place to work. after my contract expired, they told me that due to a slower than expected recovery on their part from the economic downturn that did hit Texas, they couldn't renew my contract.

i've since worked (and am still at one of them) two jobs that were low-paying, with little chance for advancement or opportunity to come even reasonably close to my salary in NYC. and it's not just the cost-of-living change, it's the reality that finding a job in any of my chosen fields has been difficult.

yes, working is nice in the sense that i'm not drawing unemployment anymore. but the feeling that i am just going to fall further into debt, that there is no advancement chances and no chance to make real money and no benefits at all, are also very damaging to the psyche. i can now see how some people without college educations and "good" jobs feel trapped, like they'll never get out.

i have had two really good opportunities come my way in recent weeks, both "real" jobs in my chosen fields, and both of which i am optimistic about. but i also view them as "life preservers", in the sense that i am holding onto that hope because i need one of them to help drag me out of the water.

so, yea, there are jobs here. but for the most part, they are mind-numbing and soul-sucking.
 
173Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 11:49
Perry's vaccine policy in Texas looks a lot like...

I actually agree with his stand on the vaccine (as I've stated elsewhere). But this will hurt him among the most rabid of the Right. And sets him up for a charge of hypocrisy regarding the role of the government in setting mandatory health care consumption.
 
174Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 12:02
Yeah it's interesting to see him stake out positions distinct from hard right demagoguery there and also regarding a border wall.

If the Tea Party is half as influential and committed to it's ideals as FNC and Boldy would have us believe, it should sink him.

Of course the fact that he and Romney (and not Bachmann and Cain) have spent the last few weeks as front runners suggest that that integrity and/or influence aren't quite what they'd have the rest of us believe.
 
175Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 12:45
That's the disconnect on American politics. Money talks and principles walk.

Romney and Perry have unlimited insider financial support without even working for it.

Currently Palin's footdragging is sucking the wind from Bachmann's sails so that she is behind both in cash [which was always gonna be her problem] and enthusiasm.
 
176Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 12:55
Why would Palin suck tea Party support from Bachmann but not Perry?

And it's not unfair to ask why you alwas omit Cain from your comments about the GOP field. Not long ago he was your "real deal" and even your "next president" as you overtly mocked anyone who dared opine that he'd peaked.
 
177Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 19:49
It was West that I really liked, Cain was always behind him in my affections. They all look like to you?

Bachmann and Palin are much more likely to share the same backers. Being real conservatives rather than Perry posers.
 
178Khahan
      ID: 54138190
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 20:23
Bachmann and Palin are much more likely to share the same backers. Being real conservatives

They are not conservatives. They are both fringe pop-stars, representing a small portion of the Republican constituency with a very loud voice. Neither are worthy of the Republican nomination.

Thats what you don't get B. You call yourself a conservative, yet anybody who disagrees with you is not. There is more to life than your little world. You are a part of that small fringe faction they represent, but nothing more. You are far from representative of conservatives and republicans as a whole and I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd stop talking as if you were an ambassador for the party.
 
179Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 20:41
#177: You called Cain the second half of the winning ticket for the Republicans. You're the one who grouped them together.
 
180sarge33rd
      ID: 13856817
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 20:43
Can I nominate 178 for "Post of the Decade"?
 
181Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 20:44
Khahan

And I would appreciate it if democrats-lite would just look in the mirror and get honest about it.
 
182Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 21:31
whoa, look at that!!

yep, that 178 going right over Baldwin's head. also, him trying to deflect criticism toward something completely unrelated.
 
183Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 22:50
They all look like to you?

Boldwin, May 1st, 2011 in the Allen West thread:

I don't care what order on the ticket, here [a Herman Cain link] is the other half of the only winning ticket Republicans have.

No, Boldy, but they apparently all look alike to you. That revelation would why you never answered me on why you chose the "Allen West for President" thread to have your Herman Cain discussion in.

In any case, you were dead wrong on him. The guy peaked by June, is now an afterthought and will likely be one of the next two from the most recent debate to drop out of the race.
 
184Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 23:03
MITH

Again money distorts the process. Fred Thomson was the republican's best shot last time, but no money...whatchagonnado? He didn't go anywhere.

Unless republicans imitate Dean and get good at grass-roots internet fundraising it looks like a RINOs as far as the eye can see in the winners circle at the republican conventions of the future.

The grassroots are pretty fired up tho. Will they put their money where their principles are?
 
185Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Sep 09, 2011, 23:08
MITH

That was also before Bachmann took off. She has a better resume. I'm not saying she'd do better than Cain or West, but presidential winners don't come from the ranks of first time House members very often.
 
186Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 00:23
You sure didn't think money was a factor while you were scoffing at the notion that he'd peaked.

Of course you dont think his own admission to being a foreign policy know-nothing while calling Israel policy a strength of his campaign (right before he was exposed for having no idea what "right of return" meant) or the cycle of denying each latest thing he'd said on the topic of his overt Muslim bigotry, including literally exploding on a reporter in denial of the very phrase he'd just uttered minutes before.

If none of that could have anything to do with a plummet in the polls you probably think less of the tea party than I do.

What I also noticed is that Cain's popularity coincided pretty much directly with how much air time he was given on FNC. When they got bored and probably a little embarrassed by their own gushing over the big phony, they moved on and the base forgot all about him.
 
187Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 00:33
Fred Thomson was the republican's best shot last time, but no money

You're misremembering. Thompson faded because he was sluggish and lackluster, after spending all summer playing the song "Maybe I'll Run for President, I Dunno."
 
188Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 00:39
Agreed, PD. Thompson was hardly a very active campaigner. I'd think think the base prefers a potential president who wants the job enough to work for it.

At the least it's certainly a better metric than who I'd have a beer with.

Qnyway, you're not sending a great message when you're outhustled by Grampa McCain.
 
189Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 05:38
He played the song maybe I'll run because he kept hoping the donors would see that he was popular and a good bet and drop the cash on him. He was popular with the base but he wasn't the insider's/power elite's flavor of sell-out.
 
190Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 05:39
Anyone can get outspent by Soros.
 
191Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 08:57
Blaming Soros for Fred Thompson never catching fire in the GOP primary after his (Thompson's) bad campaigning and sluggo debate performance is just sad.

Thompson lost because he campaigned poorly. He never got the money for the same reason. Soros wasn't spending money on GOP primary candidates.
 
192Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 10:26
Soros wasn't spending money on GOP primary candidates. - PD

McCain had been feeding at the Soros trough for half a decade if not an entire one, before he ran.

I know for a fact he was receiving Soros checks while he did Soros' bidding with 'campaign finance reform' which effectively made Soros owner of the Democratic party apparatus.

I would bet he was in Soros' pocket when he tried to mount a challenge to Bush a cycle or two back. But I can't recall for sure reading about that one.
 
193Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 10:45
Re: Soros' Proteus Fund, a hedge fund Soros runs that specializes in shorting currencies during national crises and profiting from a country's decline which his shenanigans tend to create in the first place.

Proteus: A bacteria found in $h!t.
I can add colors to the chameleon,
Change shapes with Proteus for advantages,
And set the murderous Machiavel to school.
Can I do this, and cannot get a crown?
Tut, were it farther off, I’ll pluck it down.
- Richard III, Villain in Shakespear's play Henry VI, Part 3

At turns he is Obama, at turns he is McCain.
 
194Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 12:10
Fred Thompson? Unreal! Here I would have thought Baldwin would dismiss that hippy-Marxist godless Hollywood compromiser as a dangerous shill for all that is liberal, but nothing surprises me anymore.

You really ought to take up MITH's advice and start a blog because you just aren't accomplishing anything slumming around here. No one pays attention to your craziness here, you could make waves in the blogosphere.

It has been suggested that Baldwin was a conservative talking points bot that spewed right wing criticism in a predictable pattern, but now I am convinced that there is no computer powerful enough to spin such batshit crazy tripe at such speed. To figure out what Baldwin will post next is more complicated than trying to unscramble an egg. It will take 50+ years of quantum computing to create a processor powerful enough to figure him out.

There is another possible societal benefit from a All Baldwin All the Time website: The boards of top universities could simply pose this question to psychology doctorate candidates - "Using the DSM IV, what the hell do you make of this guy? Do we need a new category?"
 
195Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:04
Fred Thompson is the one with at least one screw loose, as he took the position that if he couldn't mount a run, then McCain should.

There's a real red flag. But he always in other areas had his head screwed on straight and pretty good conservative principles. He was VERY personable, charismatic and electable. He was surprisingly knowledgeable in a host of areas. Reagan wasn't the only actor to exceed expectations. Not as sure-footed in his principles as plenty of others I could name.

SZ

Funny take from the bizzaro alternate universe you inhabit. I don't do this for anyone else. I do this to learn.

Yeah, it would be helpful if I was sharpening up against real steel instead of the troll droppings I have thrown at me 9/10 of the time.
 
196sarge33rd
      ID: 16881011
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:07
delusional. yep...that would be the diagnosis. Paranoid and delusional.
 
197Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:23
SZ

Ever seen a forum where the best of left and right argued it out? You would think that would be easy to find if not for the trolls interfering I guess.
 
198sarge33rd
      ID: 16881011
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:24
Simple truth B...if you ARE 'the best" the right has to offer...the right is doomed. Pure and simple.
 
199Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:29
What would your blog look like, Sarge?
 
200Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:38
I guess it would look like the you, Tree and Dwetz splattered all over my denied access page.
 
201sarge33rd
      ID: 16881011
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:39
dont have one B. But if I were to start a blog? It would deal more with the disdain shown by man FOR man, than with harping about how I knew everything and the rest of the world was comprised of idiots, all while maintaining that I were the very picture of Christianity,

You embody B, that line of Val Kilmers as Doc Holiday "Seems my hypocrisy has no bounds"
 
202Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 14:55
The most interesting moment in Fred Thompson's career:

The setting: Bill Clinton had just been elected with illegal Chinese campaign funds, and he had just handed over to the Chinese scads of miltary tech that fixed their unreliable Nuke ICBM's aimed at us among many examples.

The denouement: When Thompson tried to put together a congressional investigation into these military transfers he found out that there weren't enuff people in all of congress in either party untainted by illegal Chinese campaign funds, to put together an investigation into this urgent matter.

The best government Chinese money can buy.

So no, Soros isn't the only problem in the world. He's right there in the top few tho.
 
203sarge33rd
      ID: 16881011
      Sat, Sep 10, 2011, 15:13
sox called it right
 
204soxzeitgeist
      ID: 248221115
      Sun, Sep 11, 2011, 16:45
Yeah, it would be helpful if I was sharpening up against real steel instead of the troll droppings I have thrown at me 9/10 of the time.

That is even better than any you tube video labeled "cuddly kittens"; it is simply, and by far, the finest declaration I have ever seen on the interwebs.
 
205Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 00:38
Ron White
 
206Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 00:57
and the point of that post...that you have things in common with a guy who calls himself "chevycountryboy513"?
 
207Khahan
      ID: 373143013
      Tue, Sep 13, 2011, 08:56
205 is great. Ron White is a funny guy.
 
208Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 14, 2011, 22:00
A fresh chance for Perry to demonstrate he is, in fact, "pro-justice" and pro-life.
 
209Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 10:48
Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics - Paul Krugman, 1996
Paul Krugman. So you know it's true. *cough*
 
210biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 11:00
Krugman giving context. I'm sure you won't be interested.
 
211boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 11:16
Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today’s young may well get less than they put in)

I think he is twisting his own words, Um what do you think happens when a ponzi scheme ends that last people to put there money in get less than they put in back. He is defining exactly what a ponzi scheme is. Fine if you want argue that it is not a ponzi scheme because everyone knows what they are getting into fine, but do not try and act like it does not have the same characteristics as Ponzi scheme.

 
212Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 11:36
Actually, in a Ponzi scheme the last get bupkiss, not "less than they put back." The whole thing is secret (unlike social security, whose finances are transparent). And the originator of the scheme gets the most money (government loses money running Social Security), etc etc.

Social Security doesn't have the same characteristics as a Ponzi scheme. It has the same characteristics of an insurance company. And even left alone, it will pay full benefits for decades, and about 75% of benefits in 2085 (which is probably about what the people retiring then will have paid in).
 
213Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 11:42
Actually, in a Ponzi scheme the last get bupkiss, not "less than they put back." - PD

Bernie Maddoff's victims got 7.2 billion back.

Now apologize to Paul Krugman.
 
214Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:05
They didn't get that back in the scheme. They got nothing in the scheme. They only got money back as a result of a court order following the criminal trial.

You've got a Michael-Moore like talent for adjusting timelines, Boldwin.
 
215Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:09
Probably worth noting that in a Ponzi scheme, the intent is to make gobs of money for the originators and the first ones in before it collapses. That certainly is and never was the intent with Social Security.
 
216Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:14
Actually Charles Ponzi hoped to somehow finagle it all out for everyone in the end. In fact he had hurt feelings that his victims didn't like him anymore. He liked them just fine!

The problem was he just kept digging himself in deeper without a realistic plan of solving it.

Kinda like you, PD.
 
217Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:29
Heh. Doing nothing will result in 74% of benefits paid out in 2085. Long after you and I are gone. And hopefully long after "death panels" and "vaccines cause retardation" memes die.

Keep trying to re-define "ponzi" to suite your point! There's nothing like holding fast to your conclusions and then casting about for evidence to support it.
 
218boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:35
Re 217: that assumes current population growths if the USA joins the rest of western world and begins to face population decline in which case that completely falls a part.


I am not sure 74% is something to be bragging about, hiding you your money under the mattress would serve you better. Under any other circumstance if someone told you don't worry ill give you 75 cents for your dollar you would call that a scam.

 
219sarge33rd
      ID: 488551511
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 12:55
re 208...Perry will not intervene. He declined to do so, under international pressure with a foreign national. He declined to do so, for a death row inmate who was mentally retarded (and therefore not AS accountable for their actions as per the norm)...he will decline to do so here too. Why? Cause he is a fkng jagoff, who thinks killing people is 'cool'. Look at his supporters. They demand it.
 
220Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 13:11
Sarge

I too have big issues with Texas and I have run across egregious cases where the inmate was almost certainly innocent and not given due justice.

PD

Keep trying to re-define "ponzi" to suite your point!

Good grief, now I need to find someone more liberal and credible on economics [to PD] than Krugman to concur.

Who could that possibly be?

You want definitions?

Promising unrealistically high rates of return via claims of unusual financial investments.

Invisible lock boxes?

Two kids supporting four seniors with a small fraction of their income?

Investments that get instantly raided for non-investment spending sprees?

The promoter will vanish, taking all the remaining investment money.

See liberals predicting, nay calling for the death of the nation state in preference to global government.

See 'community activists' calling for the destruction of the capitalist system.

See the budding North American Union.

Oops, sorry about the promises those other guys made.

 
221Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 15, 2011, 14:11
Promising unrealistically high rates of return via claims of unusual financial investments.

Who did this? It seems you've decided to just make up what the program is about and its promises in order to attack it. Epistemological closure isn't your strong suit.

Look at the actual numbers. Not the ones you've taken in, pre-chewed, by your biased media. The actual numbers don't lie.
 
222Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 18:31
Bad Timing Department
 
223sarge33rd
      ID: 178571611
      Fri, Sep 16, 2011, 19:08
nasty inconvenient thing...truth.
 
224sarge33rd
      ID: 88512011
      Tue, Sep 20, 2011, 20:10
Petition re Perry executing an innocent man, for a 'crime', post trial experts say didnt happen

As Governor of Texas, Rick Perry oversaw the execution of an innocent man. But the media is failing to do its job and make Perry account for his role in this terrible injustice.

The facts are pretty damning. Cameron Todd Willingham was executed for intentionally starting a fire that killed his three children.1 But all six of the outside experts who have reviewed the evidence of the Dec. 23, 1991 fire that killed the Willingham children have concluded that there is no reason to think arson caused the fire."
 
225Wilmer McLean
      ID: 28855111
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 03:50
Cameron Todd Willingham (wiki)

...

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals denied Willingham a writ of habeas corpus a month before his execution. Dr. Gerald Hurst, an Austin scientist and fire investigator, reviewed the case and concluded there was "no evidence of arson", the same conclusion reached by other fire investigators. Hurst's report was sent to governor Rick Perry's office as well as Board of Pardons and Paroles along with Willingham's appeal for clemency.

...


Capital Punishment in Texas (wiki)

...

Board of Pardons and Paroles

In addition, a defendant may also appeal to the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles (a division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for commutation of the sentence.

The Board, after hearing testimony, decides whether or not to recommend commutation to the Governor of Texas. The Governor can accept or reject a positive recommendation of commutation, but has no power to override a negative recommendation (the law was changed in 1936 due to concerns that pardons were being sold for cash under the administrations of former Governor James E. Ferguson and later his wife and Texas' first female Governor Miriam A. Ferguson). The only unilateral action which the Governor can take is to grant a one-time, 30-day reprieve to the defendant.

It should be noted that the Board members are gubernatorial appointees (though their terms overlap gubernatorial elections) and, thus, will most likely share the same political viewpoints as the Governor who appointed them.

 
226Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 09:56
While the governor has no power to stay an execution (past the one-time 30 day power, usually used so that a defendant can gather evidence for an appeal), much of the criticism against Perry is that he seemingly doesn't care that there is strong evidence that they convicted the wrong guy, and has made no effort to lobby the Board to stop the execution.

#224: IMO usually a cry that the press "isn't doing its job" in telling about an issu is less about press coverage than whether people in general start believing the POV of the person making the claim.
 
227sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 11:47
It should also be noted Wilmer, that Gov Perry replaced three Board Members, days before they were to have heard testimony indicating there was no arson.

No arson...no criminal conviction FOR arson.
 
228sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 13:34
Netanyahu and Obama re Palestinian bid to UN for recognition as a state

So why did I put this here?

On Tuesday, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who is running for the GOP presidential nomination, derided Obama's position on Israel at a pro-Israel rally in New York, slamming the president for a "policy of appeasement" toward Palestinians.

"The people of Israel and the people of this world will never question where I stand when it comes to Israel," Perry said at a press conference.

He said the president's position — that the 1967 border established between Israel and Palestine be the starting point for further peace negotiations — was "naive and arrogant, misguided and dangerous."


One of his handlers, needs to remind him that this has been US policy, since...ummm, Reagan.
 
229boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 14:55
I thought Obama was in favor of Palestine statehood? (along with past foreign policy) I guess it must suck to have bluff called on you like that.
 
230Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 15:10
He was never in favor of statehood for Palestine, and in fact will have the measure vetoed at the UN Security Council.
 
231boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 16:08
Not true, we will vote against statehood but our foreign policy has been that the US favors a Palestinian state, just on our terms.

This is best move the Palestinians could pull, it forces everyone to lay their cards on the table and as much as we love to come out in support of new countries like South Sudan and talk a big game about freedom we sure do cower when freedom does not meet our needs. Or, this will all just go to show what total joke the UN is.

 
232sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 16:21
I disagree that such favor is "just on our terms". I think it more accurate to say, such favor is conditional upon Palestine recognizing Israel's right to exist, just as Palestine wants the same right to exist. As long however, as Palestines position is that Israel needs eradication, then we can not stand in favor of granting Palestine statehood.
 
233Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 16:38
Not true, we will vote against statehood but our foreign policy has been that the US favors a Palestinian state, just on our terms.

Insert "Israel" for the "US" and you'd have their policy as well.

This really isn't asserting anything at all.

Perry, like many Christianists, is saying that because we are trying to broker agreements between Israel and the Palestinians that we are therefore agreeing with all the Palestinian demands--a silly point to make (which stems from his with-us-or-against-us stance).
 
234boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 17:26
I disagree that such favor is "just on our terms". that was meant as generalization of when ever we come out against groups not just Palestinians.

Perry, like many Christianists, is saying that because we are trying to broker agreements between Israel and the Palestinians that we are therefore agreeing with all the Palestinian demands--a silly point to make (which stems from his with-us-or-against-us stance).

this seems a bit unchristian, is this really how "Christianists" feel?
 
235bibA
      ID: 48627713
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 17:28
sarge - I think that as far back as 1988 the PLO has accepted Israel's right to exist. Several years after that Arafat basically stated that the PLO's previous policy that denied Israel's right to exist was no longer valid. The problems seem to derive from semantics, in that the Palestinians are unwilling to recognize that they have been displaced. They recognize that Israel does exist, but that they, the Palestinians, still feel that they have rights to land they have been displaced from.
 
236Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 17:57
#234: Perry says that he stands for Israel "as a Christian." In other words, his political stance on Israel is a matter of faith.

This is exactly how Christianists feel.
 
237sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 19:12
probably the 'best' solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict...which is also why it will never happen
 
238Tree
      ID: 188132118
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 19:13
I think that as far back as 1988 the PLO has accepted Israel's right to exist. Several years after that Arafat basically stated that the PLO's previous policy that denied Israel's right to exist was no longer valid

1993, actually.

of course, the PLO and Hamas are not the same thing, and Hamas' opinion is dramatically different.

 
239Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 20:00
I disagree that such favor is "just on our terms". I think it more accurate to say, such favor is conditional upon Palestine recognizing Israel's right to exist, just as Palestine wants the same right to exist. As long however, as Palestines position is that Israel needs eradication, then we can not stand in favor of granting Palestine statehood.

This isn't a 'christianist' stance, whatever those are. [I've canvased half my county and I've never met one...google John Lennon's killer to meet the only group of them I am sure deserve the term]

...this is rather the exact demand the UN has made of the palestinians to have their own state from the day the UN established Israel. They could have had their own state the very same day the UN divided that area. The UN had it in their stated plan:
Following the Second World War peace settlement and the establishment of the United Nations in 1945, the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) was mandated to the region in 1947. In its final report, the Commission recommended the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state and a UN-controlled territory (Corpus separatum) around Jerusalem[3] This partition plan was adopted with General Assembly resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. The vote itself, which required a two-third majority, was a dramatic affair. It led to celebrations in the streets of Jewish cities, but was rejected by the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League.

Within a few months, full scale Jewish-Arab fighting broke out in Palestine.[4] It also led to anti-Jewish violence in Arab countries,[5] and to a Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim lands. - wiki
So the only thing keeping Palestinians from having their own state was their own intransigence in recognizing their neighbor's right to exist. Since day one. Same as it ever was.

I fail to see how agreeing with the UN's position for the last 60 years makes someone a christianist.
 
240Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 20:31
Did you skim my short post #234. I'm not certain I could put it into simpler language. Perhaps a graphic novel?
 
241sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 20:32
since when do you have anything but disdain for the UN?
 
242Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 21:00
since when do you have anything but disdain for the UN?

Entirely besides the point. The question begged recently in this thread was, 'is Perry's taking that position some bizzare and sinister christianist plot or some perfectly natural political position not remarkable in any way'.
 
243sarge33rd
      ID: 278472110
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 21:02
I dont recall seeing the word "plot" until you used it. I dod think, PD is correct when he says it is the position of a fundamentalist fringe group and that Perry is playing TO that group.
 
244Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Wed, Sep 21, 2011, 21:13
PD

What makes you such an expert on christianists?

Give us some links demonstrating a real definition and some real world examples of them taking over the world.

Otherwise you just remind me of some catholics I've run across who take out ''the cult stick' and point it at virtually everyone who isn't a catholic.

Your bizzare fixation has been dealt with here.
 
245Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 09:27
If you don't want to answer the point I've made twice you should be more upfront about it. Is it your politics or your religion which makes you avoid it?
 
246Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 11:55
'Your post #234' was a post from Boikin. What outstanding issue of yours do you feel is still on the table?
 
247Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 12:07
Typo--meant #233.

There are no outstanding issues. You'll continue to answer the wrong questions (the ones of your choosing) no matter what. The mixture of politics and religion is now seamless for you.
 
248Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 12:30
Rick Perry's gift to Islamic extremists.
 
249boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 15:09
re 237: the reason the one state solution will never happen is that with population differences you will be making the Palestinian the defacto rulers of Israel.
 
250Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 22, 2011, 16:01
I certainly agree. The two-state solution, with mutual and verifiable security measures, is the best way to go.
 
251sarge33rd
      ID: 158472714
      Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 19:15
Onion worthy IMHO
 
252Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 29, 2011, 14:36
Bad Lip Reading: Rick Perry

One of the funniest things I've seen in some time.
 
253sarge33rd
      ID: 458482913
      Thu, Sep 29, 2011, 14:48
pssst, peek at the link 1 post above ;)
 
254Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Thu, Sep 29, 2011, 14:50
Ah--I never follow direct links to You Tube. Baldwin does that all the time.
 
255sarge33rd
      ID: 458482913
      Thu, Sep 29, 2011, 15:33
damn, comparing me now to B? :/
 
256Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 05:09
Official USA 'Death by Gardasil' events rise 26 to 82 deaths.
 
257biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 09:24
Correlation does not imply causation, no matter how much that trash you read wants it to.
 
258Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 10:34
Correlation does not imply causation

True, and it's scurrilous speculation to call these Official USA 'Death by Gardasil' events.

Still, I would have deep concerns having my teenage daughter vaccinated with Gardasil, especially by state mandate. I would have even more trepidation knowing the relationship between Perry and Merck.

Every 5 minutes on TV there's an ad for a drug for everything from erectile disfunction to acne, each with a disclaimer about potential side effects that include death. "Ask your doctor if [insert drug name here] is right for you." Now, if your doctor is receiving money from that drug company, you'd probably question his/her objectivity regarding the drug in question.
 
259sarge33rd
      ID: 299342518
      Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 00:36
Seems like as good a place as any for this:

East TX DA offers drug runners leniency for cash

Ah yes..TX, either they pay us and go scott free, or we execute even the retarded folk. Gotta love that "down home" justice they practice. Wouldnt this fall under the GOVs responsibility?
 
260Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 09:00
Don't forget the Death by Penicillin (pdf) events of up to 1000/year.
 
261sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 15:49
TX Conc Carry instr refuses to teach Muslims or Obama supporters

Let's see how perry and DPS address this.
 
262Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 16:10
You see the first comment? Typical.
 
263sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 16:40
wonder what secedetexas comment would be, if the local Drivers Ed instructor refused to teach Christian Conservatives or those who voted Republican?
 
264Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 17:34
How about if he has thug life tatooed across his torso in foot high letters? M-13 tatooed on his gun hand? A 'Die Whitey' t-shirt? A 'White Power' t-shirt? If he's on a felony registery? 'Mack the Knife' playing on the caddy's radio, rope, duct tape and concrete blocks in the trunk? Your ex-wife's boyfriend?

There is something about teaching deadly force that differs from selling soup at a lunch counter.

The constitution isn't a suicide pact.
 
265sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 17:52
Teaching a State Required course, for a State issued license, and doing so with a State Teaching Certifcate; does not allow you to pick and choose your student body.

Else, answer my question above re the Drivers Ed Instructor.
 
266Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 18:11
We've already got that. It's called public school and they won't let you stay a christian if they can help it.
 
267sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 18:31
BS...pure, unadulterated BS.
 
268Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:00
As demonstrated by all the 'no parent notification/no opt out' gay indoctrination for example.
 
269sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:03
hog wash Boldwin. Can your biased, poor me propaganda crap. Just stop it.
 
270Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:23
Sarge: According to the rules, you know you've won a point when they try to change the subject.
 
271sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:27
Hell PD in that case, my 7 yr old nephew could argue and win points vs the B we've seen of late.
 
272DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 19:31
Man, I hate that gay indoctrination stuff. The next thing you know they'll be telling us that blacks and Mexicans are humans too! The nerve of those people!
 
273Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 20:11
my 7 yr old nephew could argue and win points vs the B

So says the guy who thinks BS...pure, unadulterated BS is effective valid debate.
 
274sarge33rd
      ID: 399392811
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 20:32
comes to valid debate B, you've turned yourself into an invalid.
 
275DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 21:20
If someone says "the moon is made of green cheese", laughing and pointing out it's pure unadulterated BS is both effective and correct.

Likewise, post 267 was all the debating skill necessary.
 
276Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 09:27
Perry sticks a fork in himself.
 
277Razor
      ID: 09441723
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 09:52
Awesome. Sounds like a well-thought out plan to rebuild our government and our nation. So well thought out that he can't remember the name of the freaking agency. That's kind of step 1. Step 2 is figuring out how a radical change might improve things. If you can't remember to write your name on the test, you have no hope of getting a good grade.
 
278Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 10:11


Perry, Cain, Bachmann and Santorum are toast. Ron Paul has more solid support than any of them. Suprisingly, Gingrich is mildly surging, so a Romney/Gingrich ticket wouldn't shock me. It's a pretty strong ticket.
 
279Razor
      ID: 569263121
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 10:21
Two individual mandate guys on one ticket! That would be something.

You're likely right that Gingrich is the guy now that Cain's on the fall.
 
280Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 10:55
To be fair, the energy department has spent so much time trying to hold his state back it's understandable that he would be blocking. I'd be angry as a hornet too in his shoes.
 
281Razor
      ID: 09441723
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 10:59
Good narrative. Are you sure it's that and not that he's just an idiot in over his head?
 
282Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 11:31
No
 
283Seattle Zen
      Leader
      ID: 055343019
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 11:47
Disagree with the notion that Gingrich is a logical choice as VP. He has MASSIVE negatives and his minor attraction by conservatives does not outweigh the rejection by moderates or independents. How does he make Romney more attractive to Ohio voters? Gingrich isn't even popular in his home state.

I feel that Romney is go with someone not in the race, young and enthusiastic without baggage. Not sure if he/she will be Midwest or South.
 
284Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 11:58
To be fair

We can now add "fair" to the list of words Boldwin renders meaningless.
 
285Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 12:20
Exactly. Perry clearly has no idea of what the Energy Department even does.
 
286Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 12:28
SZ, I don't think Newt has any more negatives or turns off moderates and independents any more than Dick Cheney. There's a good chance, like Bush, that Romney might feel a conservative elder statesman, author of the "Contract with America" and a torchbearer of the Reagan Revolution fits the bill.

But, yeah, somebody like Tim Pawlenty or Marco Rubio might make more sense in 2012.
 
287Tree
      ID: 461021012
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 13:02
How does post 280 make *any* sense, even coming from a guy who's posts rarely make sense to begin with.
 
288Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 15:29
I'm not sure that it's necessarily an example of stupidity as much an indicator that his policy is based in something other than inherent familiarity and extensive study of the issues.

Admitted conjecture but Perry comes across to me as the type of pol who assigns staffers to crunch numbers and assess public sentiment and come up with policies that can support an image that works for him while also sufficiently standing up to scrutiny in the eyes of the electorate -- and then provide him with a plain language overview when they're finished.

Gingrich's and Paul's policies seem to come much more directly from their own highly researched ideologies and extensive experience. I doubt those guys ever experience that type of brainfart in a debate.

I think Perry just isn't all that personally connected to his proposed policies.
 
289Great One
      ID: 574139
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 15:34
His answer reminded me of the underwear gnomes...

 
290sarge33rd
      ID: 4610371014
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 15:37
Perry was done, once he was visible nationally. I think MITHs 288, is spot on in evaluating Perry. The ultimate poll driven politician.

What of Hunstsman as a VP candidate? Frankly, I am still amazed the GOP hasnt caught on to how LITTLE baggage he brings, how close he is to their ideals and yet how approachable he is by those outside his immediate sphere.
 
291C1-NRB
      ID: 3810481014
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 15:48
I think of the Underpants Gnome's Profit Plan every time anyone starts to outline their "plan" for a course of action.
 
292Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 18:05
Perry clearly has no idea of what the Energy Department even does. - PD

It screws Texas. What else does he need to know?
 
293Razor
      ID: 09441723
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 18:35
Define "screws Texas". Maybe you can do a better job than Perry with these types of questions.
 
294Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 19:00
It screws Texas. What else does he need to know?

if by screwing Texas you mean allowing drilling rigs all over my f*cking city, in neighborhoods where people live, next to restaurants i like to eat at, near parks and schools and highways, then i guess you're right.

 
295Perm Dude
      ID: 549411117
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 21:17
It screws Texas. What else does he need to know?

Heh. How about: What it does for the rest of the country? After all, he's not running for the President of Texas.

Boldwin takes Democratic Chicago politicians to task for being parochial in their outlook. But for GOP politicos this is suddenly a good thing.

I'm surprised he isn't a big fan of Romney, what with all the flopping.
 
296sarge33rd
      ID: 4610371014
      Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 22:00
wait till tomorrow, he will be.
 
297Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 09:19
It won't save his candidacy, but Perry made a great move with his appearance on Letterman last night.
 
298Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 11:01
Razor

Between the EPA and the DOE, Texas can barely operate their keystone industry, the oil industry, and running power-plants economically is becoming increasingly impossible along with all the business sabotage that comes with those two problems.

Specifically:

1) Obama tried to use the oilspill to kill Texas offshore drilling and refining.

2) Obama has put a defacto 5 year hold on drilling in the Permian basin [Texas] while the EPA determines how much land the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard requires.

3)Obama is forcing the closure of 1/5 of all coal power plants thus threatening to make Texas a net energy importer which is just crazy counterintuitive. He's also played havoc with clean coal new power plants that were on the books to be built. Those all won't be built now.

GE coal-fired power plants get an Obama waiver. Well of course they do.

Texas is about the only positive job creation story in the country, Obama's obstruction not withstanding.
 
299Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 11:16
Don't think Obama wants the rest of us to have energy either.

Obama puts off Canada pipeline till after election.

When he then dares kill it permanently. China should get the energy instead.
 
300Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 11:28
1) Obama tried to use the oilspill to kill Texas offshore drilling and refining

He apparently did that by expanding offshore drilling in both the Gulf and off the Alaskan coast. Here's a sample:

In the western and central Gulf, by contrast, the proposal puts all unleased acreage up for sale. There, drilling is more commonplace, infrastructure is well developed, and spill response plans have improved since the Gulf oil spill disaster in 2010.

The drilling plans are the latest iteration of President Barack Obama's strategy for energy production, which has continually shifted to account for political realities, high gasoline prices and environmental disasters such as last year's Gulf oil spill. Weeks before that disaster, the White House had talked of expanding offshore drilling off Alaska, in the Atlantic and throughout the eastern Gulf, in part to help move stalled climate-change legislation through Congress. It pulled back late last year after the blowout of BP's Macondo well caused the largest offshore oil spill in U.S. history.

In May, with Republicans in Congress passing bills to speed up and expand offshore drilling and with the public outraged over high gasoline prices, Obama directed his administration to extend existing leases and to hold more frequent sales in the federal petroleum reserve in Alaska to boost oil production.


2) Obama has put a defacto 5 year hold on drilling in the Permian basin [Texas] while the EPA determines how much land the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard requires.

You know that it was the Bush Administration which first put the lizard on the candidates list for the ESL, yes? At this point (since it isn't clear you know this), we are in a public comment period regarding the plan that Texas submitted to the Fish and Wildlife Service. There is no "Obama," "hold," "5-year," or a "land determination." I have no quibble with any of the other words in your otherwise reality-busting sentence.

3)Obama is forcing the closure of 1/5 of all coal power plants

This, of course, is a projection (by the coal industry) because of proposed rules that they cut mercury and emissions. I won't debate that coal plants want fewer regulations in place, would do away with all environmental regulation, and while like little girls when faced with the real costs of their products.

GE coal-fired power plants get an Obama waiver. Well of course they do.

This may surprise you, but the GE plant? It is in Texas. The sound we are heard are Boldwin's meme's colliding.

Texas is about the only positive job creation story in the country

They do, indeed, lead the nation in minimum wage jobs. Too bad those cheap jobs aren't keeping up with population growth. And if the GOP had their way, all those new jobs in Texas they are touting would each get paid less money.
 
301Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 12:24
Shutting down old, ineffient, often not used coal plants.
 
302C1-NRB
      ID: 3810481014
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 12:33
5 year hold on drilling in the Permian basin [Texas]

Could've fooled me. There are so many rigs going up out here you can't swing a lizard by the tail without hitting three.
 
303Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 15:39
PD#300

Typical CYA election-time smoke and mirrors.

If and when anyone actually spends the several million dollars application and development costs to start drilling in any of those places the EPA will deny them the permits.
 
304Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 15:43
PD#301

How does Obama driving out the current Texas coal powerplant owners and giving waivers to his favorite campaign cash donor to move in and occupy the false vacuum make Obama look good? Crony capitalism at it's corrupt worst.
 
305Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:13
And get off your Obama all-spin zone sites before declaring victory next time you research this subject.

U.S.News October 12, 2011:
If you look at it closely, it is almost as though President Barack Obama and his Interior Department don't want energy exploration in the Gulf of Mexico to resume under any circumstances.

Whether they are waiting for the U.S. Senate to ratify the Law of the Sea Treaty so we have to share the revenues with poorer countries or they plain just don't want America back in the energy production business, their lack of progress in getting oil and natural gas development back on line is costing the country jobs and economic growth.
Yes of course you can find some Obama backing website willing to spin that performance until you believe Obama is america's biggest energy production cheerleader, but it just aint so.
 
306Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:18
#304: We need clean coal. The fact that GE is both a contributor to his campaign and has clean coal technology isn't causal. It means you are unable to think it can be anything else.

You don't, for example, talk about all those coal plants (in Texas and elsewhere) who have gone to the time and expense of upgrading their systems with scrubbers and so on. Those plants in the South are hardly his supporters.
 
307Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:31
Unless you are a donation champion clean coal is a unicorn.
 
308Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:34
Sure, it is all relative. But this is like saying that there is no difference between a bus from 1955 and a minivan today. Sure, they both pollute, but which would you prefer to have going by your front door 200 times a day?

Many of the old coal plants have no scrubbers. None. They were grandfathered in when the Clean Air Act was passed, they operate less than half the time, and they pollute the hell out of the place.
 
309Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:36
Did you click on the link?
 
310Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:42
No. As I've mentioned elsewhere, as a rule I don't clock on youtube links.
 
311Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 16:46
You are missing one of the best things about the internet now, and for some reason you keep commenting after not following along, a forum no-no.
 
312Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 22:58
a forum no-no.

hahahaha! From you, even.

Listen--my comments are about your comments, and are never inappropriately placed.
 
313Boldwin
      ID: 35615181
      Fri, Nov 11, 2011, 23:40
Even when my comment is a youtube link.

And you probably fill the air with rose petals and perfume as you pass too.
 
314sarge33rd
      ID: 310271123
      Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 00:27
that would be Mrs PD
 
315Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 00:55
Even when my comment is a youtube link.

a 20 minute youtube link. oy.
 
316Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Wed, Nov 16, 2011, 21:51
With nothing to lose, Perry attacks the English language. Or something.
 
317Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 00:35
 
318Perm Dude
      ID: 39961218
      Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 17:20
Pelosi zings Perry.
 
319Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Thu, Dec 08, 2011, 18:06
Rick Perry takes a homophobic swing:


here's one counter punch:



and here's another:

"I don't always make homophobic commercials, but when I do, I make sure to dress like a gay cowboy."
 
320Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 11:10
now "Jesus" gets in on the act.

 
321Mith
      ID: 46121210
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 13:02
Real top notch stuff here tree.
 
322Mith
      ID: 46121210
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 13:20
Perry's pretty close to irrelevent at this point but it is worth noting the bullet America will have dodged when someone other than this yahoo gets the GOP nomination.
Now perhaps Perry thinks that the right not to be "beaten or killed because of their sexual orientation" or not being "subject to so-called corrective rape" are "special rights." But I suspect that if Perry thought it was appropriate to execute people based on sexual orientation, we probably would have known that by now. On the other hand, Perry supports criminalizing gay sex here in the US so maybe he's frustrated America isn't quite as up on its "traditional values" as say, Iran, where being gay is punishable by death.

 
323sarge33rd
      ID: 251133912
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 13:33
"Worst kept secret in TX", would lead one to believe then that he is feeling guilty over his escapades in college.
 
324Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 13:35
Real top notch stuff here tree.

yep, sorry for being pissed off at something a national political figure said, and finding some humor in the responses. maybe you oughta look for that sense of humor you lost.

(and yes, Perry may be currently irrelevant, but he still has the third highest poll numbers among the GOP candidates. numbers, BTW, that are still higher than those of Gingrich from just one month ago.)
 
325Mith
      ID: 46121210
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 13:48
You don't have to apologize for being angry with Rick Perry, Tree.

So he wore a jacket similar to one in Brokeback Mountain, huh? You're right that I lost the sense of humor that would have found that amusing. Sometime around 11th grade most likely (I was a late bloomer).

I guess it is true that I couldn't make that stuff up. That would take an actual juvenile.

Or a middle-aged, wannabe juvenile (now there's something to be proud of).

If I might offer a touch of advice, tree, why not convert to conservatism, at least for the purpose of posting in this forum? You could spam up the place with all the stupid crap you can find and Boldwin will defend your honor against every last criticsm and even call you a genius.
 
326Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 15:12
and i still find fart jokes funny too.

i'd rather maintain a sophomoric sense of humor on some matters and remain humble than be a pompous holier-than-thou jackass any day.
 
327Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 15:44
See that tree, you can be funny. Unintentional irony is where your talent for humor lies. Like when a member of a discussion group who relies more heavily on personal attacks on other members than anyone else in the forum calls anyone else "holier than thou."

You just need to focus on your strengths.
 
328Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 16:43
sorry you think i make more personal attacks than others. you might want to adjust your screen, because it's fuzzy.
 
329Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Fri, Dec 09, 2011, 17:50
you think i make more personal attacks than others

That might also be true, but what I said is that you rely on personal attacks more than anyone. Post 324 is a perfect example. I criticize your post and in response you criticize me personally.
 
330Boldwin
      ID: 4111685
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 04:11
why not convert to conservatism...Boldwin will defend your honor against every last criticsm and even call you a genius.

Yeah, I'll call Tree a genius.

Truth is I have reluctantly refrained from justifiably patting the precious few conservatives here on the back.

I hope they don't take away from that a sense of lack of solidarity or appreciation.

Just doing my part to cut down on the number of posts without interesting information.
 
331sarge33rd
      ID: 111147109
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 10:47
that last line, made me spit coffee onto my keyboard.
 
332Tree
      ID: 41512710
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 11:38
Post 324 is a perfect example. I criticize your post and in response you criticize me personally.

sorry bud. you can play semantics all day, but 324 was no more personal than 321.
 
333Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 12:38
Tree

top notch stuff here tree is not a personal attack.

It's not my fault if you take it personally when someone criticizes what you write and I'm sorry but your taking it personally certainly doesn't make it a personal attack.

It is a different thing if your reaction is to disparage the the person who comments on what you write, rather than simply attempt to counter or discredit the comments themselves.

I didn't call you an idiot for those posts and what i did write was not even particularly harsh as far as sarcasm goes.

I admit that I did have to resist the temptation to make my comment personal (while admittedly succumbing to the temptation to say anything at all) but I did so.

When you responded with a criticism of my character rather than of what I wrote (even though it was pretty mild - no sense of humor) it was escalation enough to push past the limit of my resistance.

In my opinion (and I'm sure I'm not alone) those are really annoying spam posts which drastically lower the quality of debate and makes smart people not want to be part of this forum. Your position is that I'm not allowed to express this at all?
 
334DWetzel
      ID: 31111810
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 13:40
To be fair, Mith, Tree made what he thought was a lighthearted post. Was it lowish content? Yes. Was there anything terribly wrong with it? No.

Did you take a poke at it? Yes.

Did Tree take a minor poke at you for not liking his joke? Yes. Would it have been completely appropriate to say "Sorry you didn't find it funny. I did" instead of phrasing it exactly as he did? Yeah, probably.

Did that come close to warranting your rant in 325, including calling him a "middle aged wannabe juvenile"? Not even close. From there, it just devolved into two second grade girls having a stupid slap fight.

I think you get about 2/3 of the blame on this one. I'm sure you feel like you're completely innocent in this clever little exchange, but you're not.
 
335Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Dec 10, 2011, 14:01
Yes, 325 was an escalation.

It's unfortunate that as I've grown to find the features of this forum are ever increasingly outweighed by what I feel are it's downsides, I too often find myself contributing to the latter.

DWetzel, while there are a number of things you wrote that I don't quite agree with, I've had enough of this discussion.

I guess it's too much too ask that the fart jokes be kept to a minimum. And I guess that's my problem.
 
336Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 10:16
Not sure this needs any comment by me.
 
337sarge33rd
      ID: 211332319
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 00:01
96% Caucus reports in, Perry is 5th in IA

Finishing ahead of Huntsman and Bachmann. Bachmann is from IA and finishes this poor;y; should be the end of her run. Huntsman, is still puzzling to me, why he does so poorly. He too I think packs it in.

Perry's ego, I think will keep him running through New Hampshire, after a poor showing there, he too will drop out.
 
338Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 00:08
Perry is sticking in it until SC.

Huntsman will make a small comeback in NH--probably as high as third. But it'll be a walking death.

Santorum shot his wad in Iowa. He doesn't have any real infrastructure elsewhere, he's got little money (which might change) but most importantly he hasn't really been attacked by the other candidates. Once that happens he'll be toast.

Luckily he had a good structure in Iowa and spent a heck of a lot of time there. Biggest piece of luck: He peaked at the exact right time to finish at or near the top.
 
339Pancho Villa
      ID: 597172916
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 00:24
Perry just said he's going back to Texas. Looks like he's out.
 
340Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 01:48
Perry said prior to the vote counting that he was going to SC. He obviously expected to do better than a decisive 5th place finish. He came out tonight and said he's going back to Texas to reflect and pray and reassess his campaign. Sounds more likely than not he'll be out before New Hampshire next week. Bachmann also finished terribly, a humiliating turnout in the home state of a former front-runner, though she also said she's staying through SC.
 
341Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 01:51
Though I guess they're all former front runners. Still, if she can't even crack double digits in her home state and won't likely do much better in NH, I can't imagine better than 3rd place in SC. That shouldnt be enough to keep her in it.

And I guess Gingrich shouldn't be written off. John McCain finished 4th in Iowa in 2004.
 
342Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 01:52
Er, 2008.
 
343Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 02:03
Huntsman may have a chance at a better than 3rd place showing in NH, depending on how his week goes. I think there are two debates this weekend and with Perry possibly dropping out there could be a bit of shuffling. He finished poorly in Iowa because he never stepped foot in that state. I was wondering if he'd get more votes than Herman Cain tonight.
 
344Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 12:15
Perry, likely thanks at least in part to Bachmann stepping out, announces he's staying in.
 
345Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Jan 19, 2012, 09:23
CNN reports Perry dropping out.

I am guessing the elites figure Newts ex will tear him apart, Santorum isn't viable, so they don't need their Romney stalking horse [which is all establishment insider Perry ever was] anymore. I am sure Perry is glad this embarrassment is behind him.
 
346Boldwin
      ID: 49030519
      Thu, Jan 19, 2012, 10:38
Perry is endorsing Newt. Perhaps he doesn't understand why he was lured into running. But he wins points.
 
347Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Jan 19, 2012, 12:17
Perry was running third in Texas. The writing was pretty clear.
 
348Building 7
      Leader
      ID: 171572711
      Thu, Jan 19, 2012, 13:47
Since they are down to 4 people, why can't Gary Johnson be in the debates? I can understand with 8 people. But now there is room for more. He only polls 1% so he can't be in the debates, and he can't increase his poll numbers unless he is in the debates.
 
349Seattle Zen
      ID: 10732616
      Thu, Jan 19, 2012, 18:27
Because he is not running as a Republican any more...

he's running as a Libertarian.
 
350sarge33rd
      ID: 353491011
      Thu, Apr 19, 2012, 15:24
you have got to be kidding me

Texas governor says a 2016 presidential bid is a possibility, and adds he'd do some things differently a second time around...

Only 1 thing he needs to do differently....dont run
 
351Perm Dude
      ID: 24625213
      Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 20:55
Rick Perry not seeking another term, per announcement today.
 
352Tree
      ID: 32649814
      Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 21:23
amen.
 
353Biliruben
      ID: 358252515
      Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 00:05
He's goin for pope.
 
354sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 11:16
decided rightfully, that he has done all the damage he could.
 
355Taxman
      ID: 67271623
      Sat, Aug 17, 2013, 00:28
Rick Perry draws Special Prosecutor for extortion of Travis County District Attorney. This stuff is too good. Hollywood can't write scripts this good.

Perry veto funds to Public Integrity Unit investigating Perry