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| Posted by: Tree
- [17039238] Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 09:36
Six killed, three injured.
looks like the shooter was an army vet and may have been a white supremacist. |
| | | 1 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 12:49
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Good thing he wasn't a Muslim shooter, I'd have hated to think we had another terrorist attack in the US. But, clearly, he's a white guy so it's not!
(Obviously, sympathies to the victims, crazies gonna crazy, too bad a bunch of Sikhs didn't have guns in that church that would have stopped him but good!, etc. etc., in varying degrees of seriousness.)
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| | | 2 | Building 7
Leader
ID: 171572711
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 13:44
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I'm waiting on Brian Ross to tell me who did it.
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| | | 3 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 16:04
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My sympathy goes out to Sikh's who both have been horribly treated by Islam and who end up getting mistaken for them all too often. I see them like Kurds, always in the minority, always getting an unfair shake.
Althouse commenters are all over this:"According to Heidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center 's intelligence project, the group has been tracking Page since 2000, when he allegedly attempted to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi National Alliance."
How does the SPLC have access to to information about a private - and perfectly legal - commercial transaction?
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Michael Ryan said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that the SPLC allegedly knows what "goods" people are purchasing, and is following people around the country? An entire group built around stalking?
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Rob Crawford said:
The description of his band sounds like "Rage Against the Machine" and that "Peace Through Music" crap.
Thank goodness we have SPLC to tell us which is a hate group, which is a bona fide band, and which deserves hundreds of thousands in charity dollars!
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BarryD said:
Sometimes I think the SPLC figures that every time there are two or more white people standing on the street together, it's a white-power group...
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| | | 4 | bibA
ID: 54522612
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 16:42
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I knew someone was at fault for this outrage, just couldn't figure out who. Now we all know, it's the Southern Poverty Law Center!
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| | | 5 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 16:57
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What we know is:
A) we don't know anything about this guy anymore than we knew about the Giffords shooter right off the bat.
B) We know that the shooter will always be presumed to be a skinhead/tea party/militia whatever group the SLPC feels like targeting.
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| | | 6 | Tree
ID: 53555306
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:33
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post 3 is more or less, disgusting. but hardly surprising.
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| | | 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:37
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I really don't see how the SPLC has anything to do with this, except for the reflexsive pushback on the Right.
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| | | 8 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:43
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What they have to do with it, is that they are controlling the narrative. In their usual bizzare manner. Somehow they have permission to stalk people and have access to our private information. Somehow the government is using the SLPC enemies list as the USA government's enemies list. Which is a pretty important story and pretty scary if you aren't a liberal.
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| | | 9 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:44
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So, the govt is behind this guys shooting up a Sikh congregation? Now do explain, how the SPLC figured into the Norway rampage.
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| | | 10 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:45
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They aren't controlling the narrative. They are part of the narrative. As they should be. As should you.
Hate groups need to be exposed. The SPLC does a valuable service in shining the light on groups you would have breed in the darkness.
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| | | 11 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:48
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Again, the SLPC definition of hate group is any two white people having a conversation.
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| | | 12 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:49
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proof,...
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| | | 13 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 17:55
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Uh, yeah. That joke wasn't funny the first time. Less so when you insist it is true.
Go ahead--take a look at what the SPLC actually said (don't rely on comment threads for your information). Refute it if you can.
While you're at it, pick a dozen or so groups from their list and make the case that they shouldn't be on the hate list. I'm giving you the opportunity to cherry pick, dude--a dozen is only a little over 1% of their list.
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| | | 14 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:07
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Well we already know it's anyone who ever looked at Stormfront website or bought Turner Diaries. What if you were just curious after OK City? What if you didn't even notice it was Stormfront? I deliberately never click on that site even when they are commenting on something I care about. What if I didn't notice it was Stormfront and it just came up on google, I click on it, boom, I'm wearing orange someday. Thanks liberals who drove Nixon out of office for having an enemies list. What are you doing looking thru my internet history anyway?
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| | | 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:11
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Nixon? lmao Wait a minute, its coming, I know it is...where is that Clinton reference....
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| | | 16 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:14
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Well we already know it's anyone who ever looked at Stormfront website or bought Turner Diaries
That's not what they said about Page. Backpeddling away from a slur against the SPLC isn't going to work here.
And your point seems to be that they have an "enemies list" (which apparently is a bad thing?) without saying anything about the content of the list.
Meanwhile, your own listmaking of enemies continues unchecked.
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| | | 17 | Tree
ID: 1724617
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:27
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an army vet, and possibly white supremacist murdered a bunch of Sikhs.
Baldwin manages to blame the SPLC and even gets in a dig at Muslims in the process.
sick sick man he is.
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| | | 18 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:27
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IF the SPLC has an 'enemies list', the question isn't "why do they have an enemies list", it's "why on earth aren't these bigoted hate groups on YOUR enemies list too?".
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| | | 19 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:39
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I wouldn't know who is on the list of groups the SLPC is attempting to incite hatred against. Since I don't visit hate sites like SPLC.
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| | | 20 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 18:47
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Well, PD conveniently linked it up there for you. And, well, you're doing a bad job of trolling on this topic, even by your standards.
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| | | 21 | Tree
ID: 53555306
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 19:12
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he'd rather remain ignorant, then make post after post about how much smarter he is than the rest of us.
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| | | 22 | Razor
ID: 10734618
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 19:34
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A couple posts about the six deceased victims and 18 posts about the rantings of a extremist. If the discourse of this board is substandard, we only have ourselves to blame.
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| | | 23 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 19:36
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"A couple posts about the six deceased victims and 18 posts about the rantings of a extremist. If the discourse of this board is substandard, we only have the rantings of the extremist to blame. "
FYP
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| | | 24 | Tree
ID: 5675619
Mon, Aug 06, 2012, 20:09
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no question Razor.
i wish it were easy to ignore hate, but it's not.
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| | | 25 | Razor
ID: 551031157
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 10:13
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Don't get in the habit of blaming others for your actions. Y'all are much better posters when you focus on your own thoughts and findings rather than responding to nonsense.
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| | | 26 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 11:48
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You've just got to come up with better debate than labeling people haters, Tree. Stop boring people.
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| | | 27 | DWetzel
ID: 49962710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 11:50
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You've just got to come up with better debate than hating people, Boldwin. Stop boring people.
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| | | 28 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 13:21
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Razor - wasn't blaming anyone else. i take responsibility for not being able to respond to a troll.
you are also correct that our best posts are when we ignore Baldwin.
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| | | 29 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:25
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And when are people going to look at who these people are targeting? Sikhs, very harmless people, schoolkids, captive audiences, Amish schoolkids...
Anyone see a pattern here? They seek out defenseless people. Either do a better job protecting places well known to be disarmed, or arm the sikhs, school teachers, etc.
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| | | 30 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:31
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right B, arm an individual in a room with 35 9 yr olds...good idea...NOT
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| | | 31 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:32
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Ah, an arms race. Nice.
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| | | 32 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:34
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I have a better idea...look at the political ideology of these shooters. Guess what? The VAST majority, are rightwing, sooooooo.....imprison rightwingers and do away with the risk.
How does that sound B?
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| | | 33 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:43
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I assume it's a tryout for a Stormfront-sponsored comedy act at this point.
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| | | 34 | Tree
ID: 22743716
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:58
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And when are people going to look at who these people are targeting? Sikhs, very harmless people, schoolkids, captive audiences, Amish schoolkids...
Anyone see a pattern here? They seek out defenseless people. Either do a better job protecting places well known to be disarmed, or arm the sikhs, school teachers, etc.
Such as Fort Hood? a miltary base where 13 people were killed and another 29 injured. i'm sure there were a buttload of guns there, and it didn't exactly help.
or what of Columbine and other school students? who should we arm? the students?
what we need to do is look at a culture where people are afraid to stand up and say "hey! we have too many weapons here, too many high powered weapons here, and all of them are too easy to get.
adding more weapons to the mix isn't going to help. It would have caused more injuries in the Aurora movie theater, and in regards to the Sikh temple, are you suggesting we should now start filling our houses of worship with weapons? wow.
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| | | 35 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 17:59
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Very very few were rightwing, as we gather from the many many times the media has rushed to make that assumption only to have to make a disappointed retraction.
Oh the bitter disappointment they felt when Loughner turned out to not be rightwing after all.
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| | | 36 | Razor
ID: 551031157
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:00
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I guess there weren't enough guns at Ft. Hood.
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| | | 38 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:08
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I forgot Mumbai. They went looking for people disarmed by the border crossing entry process. Mass murderers, always looking for the disarmed.
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| | | 39 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:09
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The majority of the shootings from link 2 in post 29 ... are kids shooting other kids.
Obviously, the only solution is for parents at home to have more guns and easier access to them.
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| | | 40 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:23
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I guess there weren't enough guns at Ft. Hood.
The first three victims in the Ft Hood shooting died, or were shot...1) charging him unarmed, 2) charging him with a chair...3) throwing a table at him.
No, there were not enuff armed people in the vicinity.
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| | | 41 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:24
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Tosh
In the majority of those incidents there were responsible adults cringing under their desks without the ability to defend the dependents in their care.
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| | | 42 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:29
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Don't the majority of gun murders in the country occur when armed young men shoot other young men who are armed?
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| | | 43 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:31
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The majority of gun murders involve young men seeking to take over a desirable drug selling corner.
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| | | 44 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:32
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Baldwin - All I see is a list of shootings. I see zero evidence that the Majority of those incidents had people hiding from the incident.
Please provide your evidence, and not just some hot air. Actual proof. Thank you.
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| | | 45 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:35
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B, Law Enforcement personnel are trained to handle stress. yet in a firefight, avg range < 20 feet, they fail to hit the target better than 80% of the time.
Lets use the gifford shooting as an example, as to how STUPID, yes that s right, how UTTERLY STUPID, your notion is:
crowd of what? 5,000 people or so? Let's use 5% (250), as having a Concealed Carry permit. Randomly scattered then throughout the crowd.(To make the math simple, I am going to assume that all 250 have wheelguns. No semiautos, no 13 rd magazines) Fella starts shooting at Gifford and 3 people in the vicinity see, draw and return fire.
Instead of the accurate 20% hit rate, I'm going to assume that these folks are PHENOMENAL shots, and hit 50%.
Heat of the moment, all 3 fire all 6 rounds. (Sstatistically normal) Thats 18 rounds, 9 of which hit the perp. The other 9? They go into/over the crowd. Now, we have people running, screaming, falling and shooting. We still have 247 other armed people, who now see these 3 first to respond, standing with guns drawn and bodies in front of them. What happens now? MORE people draw, MORE people shoot, MORE bullets go into the crowd.
No B. BAD idea. REALLY bad, bad, poor...idea.
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| | | 46 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:38
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The majority of gun murders involve young men seeking to take over a desirable drug selling corner.
Legalize drugs, eliminate desirable drug selling corners, raise revenue through taxation - problem solved.
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| | | 47 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:41
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Suicides typically make up 56.5% of all gun deaths
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, found an average of 178,423 ER (hospital emergency room) visits a year from 2004 to 2008 for drug-related suicide attempts.
US accidental gun deaths per year were down to 613 by 2007
The drug culture that finds so many ardent admirers here, is far and away the leading cause of gun murders, with examples so numerous no one even bothers to take note of their local daily occurrence. As opposed to mass murders which each get national coverage.
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| | | 48 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:43
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Sarge#45
And yet remarkably the armed guard business remains.
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| | | 49 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:46
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Funny that the content in #47 came after #46.
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| | | 50 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 18:47
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I see zero evidence that the Majority of those incidents had people hiding from the incident. - Tosh
Thanks for the wild goose chase suggestion. If you wish to believe every one of Columbine's teachers weren't cringing under their desks without the wherewithall to defend the dependents in their care, feel free to hold that indefensible claim. What else do you suggest they do since you insist they face gunfire unarmed?
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| | | 51 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:04
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drug culture... far and away the leading cause of gun murders
Right, young men killing other young men they believe are likely to be armed (along with anyone caught in the crossfire).
Isn't the likelihood that their targets are armed supposed to serve as an effective deterrent?
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| | | 52 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:08
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Even though it's only an opinion, and I have no actual facts to back it up, I will go ahead and state it as fact ... just because I believe it to be true. If called on to present evidence of my statement, I will change the subject. **Squirrel!**
People from Illinois are chronic masterbators. Prove me wrong.
See how that works?
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| | | 53 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:15
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Teachers in Columbine were unarmed and we know this...because they did not shoot the shooters.
See how that works?
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| | | 54 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:20
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Isn't the likelihood that their targets are armed supposed to serve as an effective deterrent? - MITH
The guy aiming to take over a drug corner has an atypical mindset, MITH...and...being shot to death is a really good deterent. Works every time it's tried.
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| | | 55 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:21
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And praise Jah that teachers are unarmed. That's just what we need. A bunch of kids breaking into the teacher's desks to check out the weaponry.
Maybe I should start packing heat when I go to church. Baldwin might be there with a gun.
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| | | 56 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:23
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How many dead schoolkids are you willing to produce, in order to secure your goal of disarming America?
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| | | 57 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:26
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How about re-instituting the AWB? Is that "disarming America?" Or are you unable to tell the difference?
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| | | 58 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:30
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Scare tactics. Nothing but Chicken Little Crap. Come on Baldwin.
I'm still waiting for ANY evidence that the Majority of those incidents had people hiding from the incident. And not hot air.
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| | | 59 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:33
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Have it your way, Tosh. I guess the fact that they were disarmed made no difference in their conduct.
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| | | 60 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:55
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A question for Baldwin -
How many dead schoolkids are you willing to produce, in order to secure your goal of arming every freak in America?
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| | | 61 | Pancho Villa
ID: 59645318
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 19:59
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Teachers in Columbine were unarmed and we know this...because they did not shoot the shooters.
We don't know if they would have shot the shooters had they been armed. My experience was that most of my teachers are basically pacifists, hardly equipped emotionally to shoot and kill, even in the face of such a calamitous situation.
Maybe a better idea than arming teachers against their wishes would be to keep lethal weapons out of the hands of seriously disturbed kids like Harris and Thebold.
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| | | 62 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 20:41
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"And praise Jah that teachers are unarmed. That's just what we need. A bunch of kids breaking into the teacher's desks to check out the weaponry.
But, they would never do that, because everyone knows the presence of the gun deters crime, or something, and if the teacher caught them committing a crime he could just blow that sixth grader away because that's why God created America.
Or something.
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| | | 63 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 20:58
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Tosh
The freaks are already armed.
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| | | 64 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:03
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Which is why we pass the AWB, to get the worst of the guns out of their hands.
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| | | 65 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:04
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No, you pass any gun ban as part of your incremental approach to seizing them all.
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| | | 66 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:07
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We already have a large segment of weapons already banned. You response is nonsense and you have no idea what you are talking about (which are clearly playing off each other in this thread). The vast, vast majority of people don't want to seize all weapons but believes that many weapons have no place in civilian hands.
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| | | 67 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:09
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The vast, vast majority of people don't want to seize all weapons... - PD
That is the reason that you are reduced to taking an incremental approach.
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| | | 68 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:18
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The guy aiming to take over a drug corner has an atypical mindset
Pretty sure I agree. And we seem to also agree that the overwhelming majority of gun murders are committed by people with atypical mindsets - atypical mindsets that are immune to the gun violence deterrent (as that term is used and endorsed by gun rights advocates) supposedly created by an armed civillian populace.
Sure, a killed gunman isn't going to kill anyone (or anyone else) but since the guy who killed him did so to defend his turf, just as he will either kill or be killed by the next threat to his turf, the cycle only continues.
A real head-scratcher, huh?
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| | | 69 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:27
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I'm not reduced to anything. You seem quite convinced of a position I've never taken, using the logical fallacy of a slippery slope to "prove" it.
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| | | 70 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:35
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PD
Not fooled.
MITH
If only selfish lawbreaking hedonists would dry up their market.
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| | | 71 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:40
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MITH
And yes, it is a depressing cycle. As long as drug dealers and drug users are willing to see people killed to satisfy their appetites...they will perpetuate the cycle.
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| | | 72 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 21:41
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Does anyone else see B's arguments lately, and find themselves reminded of their 4 yr old child?
"Daddy, why is the sky blue?"
"Because I made it that way"
"Why"
"Because I was tired of green after the grass and trees"
"why?"
"Because the earth s big, so there is a lot of grass and a lot of trees"
"why?"
ad nauseum
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| | | 73 | Mith
ID: 23217270
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 22:01
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If only selfish lawbreaking hedonists would dry up their market.
Exactly what prohibitionists were saying in the 1920s, I'm sure.
And exactly what gun ban advocates would say about the violent firearm black market that would surely develop if they ever got a ban pushed through.
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| | | 74 | DWetzel
ID: 25740420
Tue, Aug 07, 2012, 22:57
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"Does anyone else see B's arguments lately, and find themselves reminded of their 4 yr old child?"
Nope. My now 7 year old tired of those arguments sometime before his 4th birthday.
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| | | 75 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 05:24
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I have to spoonfeed you liberals short sentences and little words sometimes.
My vocabulary scored a 96 percentile among Ivy League bound students...but I usually just pull out enuff vocabulary to beat you guys senseless and leave the rest in reserve.
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| | | 76 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 05:27
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And yet you resort to such problems on this board. Only goes to show that a large vocabulary doesn't make a person smart or argue well, just like a kick-ass hammer doesn't make the owner a carpenter.
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| | | 78 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 05:35
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He apparently also doesn't realize that gun rights under Obama have been expanded, not contracted. Apparently expansion is the surest sign of confiscation.
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| | | 79 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 08:50
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That must be why people are buying guns like there is no tomorrow.
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| | | 80 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 08:54
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In fact I guarantee that if Obama is re-elected, the next day will be the biggest day in American gun retail history.
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| | | 81 | sarge33rd
ID: 12554167
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 12:16
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Yes B, the Right has done a tremendous job, of selling the lie, that Obama is taking away their guns. A marketing campaign, successful or otherwise, does not define the truth. Only the perception of it.
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| | | 82 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 12:26
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Agreed. I don't see how fear-driven gun sales is proof that Obama is taking away guns. The fact that people would be able to buy the same kinds of guns then as the day he first took office demonstrates the opposite, in fact.
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| | | 83 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 12:51
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Thanks for the wild goose chase suggestion. If you wish to believe every one of Columbine's teachers weren't cringing under their desks without the wherewithall to defend the dependents in their care, feel free to hold that indefensible claim. What else do you suggest they do since you insist they face gunfire unarmed?
it's not a wild goose chase.
His name is Dave Sanders. he faced gunfire unarmed...
When the shooting started, this PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER who graduated from a PUBLIC COLLEGE, ran to alert other students of what was coming their way. He is responsible for saving over 100 lives.
He was shot and killed by the gun-toting maniacs for his efforts.
unarmed, he saved over 100 lives. had he been armed? the statistics showed there would have been even more deaths.
Dave Sanders is a hero in the truest sense of the word - he risked, and ultimately paid, with his life, to save over 100 children, and he did so without needing to add more bullets to the chaos.
he wasn't cringing under some desk, and to make that claim is insulting to his memory.
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| | | 84 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 13:51
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To force other teachers go thru that same crisis because you are irrational when it comes to self-defense is insulting to his memory.
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| | | 85 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 14:05
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If we can train police to defend schoolkids, there is no reason we can't teach teachers to defend kids.
BTW, do you insist police go into that situation unarmed? And if not, why not?
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| | | 87 | Tree
ID: 17039238
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 14:24
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re 84 and 85.
you were too lazy to look for proof of a point you tried to make. because there is no proof.
instead, proof against your argument - essentially shredding it to tatters - couldn't have been easier to find, especially for anyone with an interest in facts who actually remembered the story of Dave Sanders.
he wasn't cringing under the desk. he was busy being a hero, and not needing a gun to do so.
If we can train police to defend schoolkids, there is no reason we can't teach teachers to defend kids.
we do train our teachers to defend kids - that's exactly what Dave Sanders did. he defended the kids under his care, and made the ultimate sacrifice to do so. he saved move lives without a gun than he would have, with a gun. and again, statistics and facts (things you don't believe in) show that if he had a gun, it's likely more lives would have been lost.
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| | | 88 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 15:07
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I like my heroes to survive.
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| | | 89 | slug
ID: 265522515
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 17:22
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We all do. Sometimes it just doesn't happen that way. God's will
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| | | 90 | Boldwin
ID: 18643169
Wed, Aug 08, 2012, 22:11
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It happens that way a lot more often when the victim is armed.
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