Forum: pol
Page 3676
Subject: Benghazi


  Posted by: Boldwin - [33933290] Mon, Oct 29, 2012, 12:59

The other social media war.
 
1Boldwin
      ID: 33933290
      Mon, Oct 29, 2012, 13:30
A detailed look at security moves, resources available, requests for support, denials of support, independent initiative, who actually did get out alive, etc.
 
2Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sat, Nov 03, 2012, 04:04
Chaffetz goes off message.
 
3sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 03, 2012, 14:04
CIA's Benghazai timeline, shows errors, but no evidence of conspiracy

A detailed CIA timeline of the assault on U.S. facilities in Benghazi paints an anguishing picture of embattled Americans waiting for Libyan security forces who didn’t come and courageous CIA officers who died on a rooftop without the heavy weapons they needed, trying to protect their colleagues below.
 
4Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 10:47
Condoleeza Rice on CBS This Morning
On the Benghazi attack, she acknowledged that information could change as the Obama administration has argued in defending why it initially claimed that the attack was because of an anti-Islam video. "Finally we had shifting stories. Sometimes that happens, frankly, because you're getting different sources of information. I myself have been in the situation in which I got different intelligence estimates at different times."
It seems likely enough that more undecideds than not saw through the shameless push to scandalize Benghazi.

She also said she isn't interested in succeeding Clinton as secretary of state. It's probably not the most popular opinion among liberals but I'd welcome Rice back to the State Department.
 
5Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 11:01
I would as well. I've argued that having Powell back would be a good move, too.
 
6slug
      ID: 167132313
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:05
I always perceived her as too much of a "yes man" to Bush (I recognize some of that is just part of the job), but I thought she did a great job. I'd be happy to see her involved in any administration moving forward.

Powell would be fine IMO too
 
7sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:11
This is gonna sound like a bunch of yes men, but I whole heartedly agree. Speculating, with no thought as to the real world possibility, but a few of us were talking on another forum the other day, about how interesting it would be, Rice vs Hillary in 2016.

Rice held GWN in a bit too much esteem in my eyes, but nothing will take away from her intellect and ability. Powell, is a proved commodity, who IMHO, was abused by the Bush administration.
 
8bibA
      ID: 54522612
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:35
What is GWN?
 
9sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:42
a typo...GWB. my bad
 
10Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:28
CIA's Benghazai timeline, shows errors, but no evidence of conspiracy

Who asked that question?

Besides the media and Obama conspiring to push questions about it till after the election.

The issue is that Obama had two drones, by some accounts armed drones, and a spooky gunship overhead as well as teams of special operatives and he told them all to stand down when they had vastly more firepower on the scene than it would have taken to stop the rampage.

He decided to let them die for what?
 
11Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:33
Keep spinning. Maybe it'll work next time.

Most people don't believe Benghazai is a scandal. At worst, they understand that ongoing questions are, well, ongoing. They aren't looking to spin this as you are before the questions have been answered.

The problem when you shoot your spin load is that you lose the credibility that your questions are anything but partisan in nature. You aren't seeking truth.
 
12Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:35
And then General David Petraeus, the CIA Director gets the blackmail material dumped in public so he resigns, which keeps him from testifying in congress about Benghazi next week.

Rumors are he was livid about orders to stand down.

Sure glad there's nothing conspiratorial goin on. Very reassuring.
 
13Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:44
 
14DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:50
Maybe he should have thought about that before he stuck his dick in another woman.

I personally don't give much of a damn that he did, but normally I'd have thought you were against adultery.
 
15Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:56
Yes--the right wing meme of the day is Patraeus' resignation is "proof" that the Administration is covering up Libya.

How's that "unskewed" media workin' for ya?
 
16Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:57
Maybe it'll work next time.

It already didn't. This isn't about whether it removes Obama. There may be attempts to impeach. It won't work. The mainstream media wouldn't let us remove the love of their lives if Obama was caught in bed with a dead girl, a live boy and a horse in bondage.

But he can't be allowed to just bury this story. Every serviceman facing this kind of administration backup deserves the point being driven home.
 
17Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:06
He's not burying the story. Nor is he forcing out Patraeus to cover anything.
 
18Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:10
The mainstream media wouldn't let us remove the love of their lives if Obama was caught in bed with a dead girl, a live boy and a horse in bondage.

I don't think Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or any number of mainstream media feel that way.
 
19DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:12
PV, the "mainstream media" is a term of derision used as a regal sounding substitute for the more aptly named "people who use facts and math and stuff in their reporting".
 
21Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:45
Shouldn't we at least try to get to the bottom of whether there was any order to stand down in the first place?

FOX cites anonymous sources who claim operatives at the annex were ordered "by the CIA chain of command" to stand down when they sought to help the consulate.

We don't know who the sources were but FOX is standing by their credibility.

We do know that the Patraeus unequivocally stated that no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.


Rumors are he was livid about orders to stand down

So we're impeaching the president based on anonymous sources and a rumor Boldwin says he heard that Patraeus is livid about the thing that he publicly says never happened.

What an intelligent discussion this is.



And as an aside, based on the fact that the Annex was attacked shortly after the consulate and didn't seem to fare much better, I'm not sure that it would have made any difference.
 
22Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:11
Home of the brave.
 
23DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:13
*puts on Boldwin cap circa 2004*

Treason.
 
24Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:14
no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.

This means 'someone Paneta or higher made this pusilanimous call. None of us are that ____.'
 
25DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:16
No, this means "facts don't fit Boldwin's view of the world, so clearly it's time to invent new facts".

It does get old after a while. Congratulations on your break though.
 
26sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:17
No, means its most likely a horsesh*t claim/allegation to begin with.
 
27Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:45
This means 'someone Paneta or higher made this pusilanimous call. None of us are that ____.'

So the most likely answer is not to question the reliability of the anonymous sources but rather that the anonymous sources got everything except the source of the stand down order correct and also that conservative sweetheart General David Patraeus is carefully mincing his words so as not to implicate his bosses.

Well with him off the job and the affair out in the open he sure has no reason to hold back now, right? How long til the general rushes in on a white horse and gets the impeachment process started, saving all of us from certain Thunderdome?
 
28DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:48
Soros will never let that happen.

(Am I doing it right?)
 
29Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 21:22
Tyrone Woods, Glen Doherty and Sean Smith had laser targeting on the enemy for five and a half hours after they first radioed in for air support.

Obama claimed, 'the minute I found out what was happening, I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. ... I guarantee you that everyone in the state department, our military, the CIA, you name it, had number-one priority making sure that people were safe.

Well we know for a fact that Tyrone Woods was told three times that he couldn't go rescue the ambassador.

We know for a fact that airpower wasn't allowed to save the people at the safe house.

We know the CIF was not allowed to solve the situation as they are trained to.
 
30Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 21:33
Oh, I'm just not going to pile on.
 
31sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 21:40
lol
 
32Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 22:16
"We know BHO laughed and laughed when personally told about these things..."
 
33Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 22:50
"And Hillary didn't create a full archive and lawyer up for no reason." - Dan Riehl ‏
 
34Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 23:09
Rep. Peter King: Petraeus "Absolutely Necessary Witness"
 
35Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 23:18
Start listening about 1/4 in.
 
36Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 23:27
OMG, by 3pm the British had local intel that jihadis were riding around Benghazi shouting and praying and bragging that they were going to go kill the Americans.
 
37sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 23:32
OMG, another arm chair QB, with zero experience in security or foreign intel; second guessing the state dept while making full use of hind sight AND w/o facing any repercussions nor facing any pressures and while controlling completely their own inflow of 'info'...OMG, OMG, OMG
 
38Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 23:37
Don't know anything about that radio station Baldwin has twice linked to, but I find it just plain funny that I found this email address at the 'Contact Us' page.
jesuschrist@kfi640.com

Apparently, he lives in Burbank.
 
39Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 00:08
Of all the things B thinks he knows about this topic, one thing he very clearly does not know is that if Patraeus' testimony before the intelligence committees is so crucial, all they have to do is subpoena him.

So if, as B seems to know, exposing the affair was an attempt to keep Patraeus from testifying in those hearings, it was quite obviously done by someone who doesn't understand how blackmail is supposed to work.
 
40Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 01:10
1) We don't know what other blackmail material the Chicago mob has on Patraeus. He may not want the other shoe dropped.

2) Now when he testifies, he will be treated as a dishonored and discredited figure. By liberals.
 
41Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 01:14
Setting yourself up either way it sounds like. I like how the truth really doesn't enter into it--it is all about spin. It seems far more important that you feel good about your opinions rather than having opinions rooted in facts.

Planting your opinions in the shallow soil of spin and conjecture will only get you weak harvests like you got on Tuesday.
 
42Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 01:19
Hey, you've got publishing connections. Float the idea of book about hydroponics on denial. You're an expert.
 
43Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 01:19
other blackmail material

What was the first blackmail which leads you to think there is more to come?

 
44Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 02:11
Obvious.
 
45Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 02:38
Here's a tip. If you are married and enduring long forced absences from your wife...DO NOT pick a biographer who looks like this to tell your story.

 
46Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 02:59
If you don’t get torches-and-pitchforks irate about this, you are not an American:

The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told to wait, among them Delta Force operators.

There were two AC-130Us deployed to Libya in March as part of Operation Unified Protector.

The AC-130U is a very effective third-generation fire-support aircraft, capable of continuous and extremely accurate fire onto multiple targets. It has been used numerous times in Iraq and Afghanistan to save pinned-down allied forces, and has even been credited with the surrender of the Taliban city of Kunduz - PJmedia



Two hours away during a nine hour action. Can accurately fill every square foot of a football field with a five inch bullet in the blink of an eye. Whole towns surrender to a Spooky.

Heck all they had to do was make one treetop supersonic run over Benghazi and those guys would have dropped everything and ran. Would have taken Obama all of ten minutes to end it.

But no, let's bury that story and all watch the NGEO 'the day I bravely marched in and killed Osama' made-for-election special.
 
48sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 11:53
That you are sexist, is proven in post 45.
That you are delusional, is proven in post 46 where you say, "Can accurately fill every square foot of a football field with a five inch bullet in the blink of an eye.". The AC130-U is an awesome platform, but it can NOT put a 5" bullet ACCURATELY into every sq in of a football field, in the blink of an eye. (1st of all, it doesnt carry 5" shells. There are plans to convert some to carrying 120mm mortars for stand-off capability, but even the 120mm mortar, is a 4.2" shell. It would have to be 155mm, to be 5".

I dont know what you are using as a source, but "GI Joes wish book of fanciful aeroplanes", aint the one to be referring to.
 
49Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 12:19
National Review/Victor Davis Hansen
Benghazi remains a confusing tragedy, due to the fog of war and conflicting accounts, some of them wrongly reported in the media. At present they are all carefully being sorted out in bipartisan fashion by reputable diplomats. At this early juncture, we do not believe that it is helpful to reply to all sorts of rumors and innuendoes and have concentrated instead on getting to the bottom of things as well as hunting down the assailants of our brave fallen Americans. As for General Petraeus, our heart goes out to his family. Obviously as soon as the president was apprised of the unfortunate situation he immediately took action and with regret, given General Petraeus’s sterling record of service, much of it during this administration, he had no choice but to ask for the CIA director’s resignation. It was the president’s understanding that the FBI had just completed a long internal and heretofore classified investigation leading to an administration briefing on Friday about the seriousness of the situation and the need to act swiftly and decisively. Such prompt action will ensure the reputation of the CIA and end the current and needless speculation. Likewise, we look forward to congressional hearings that will clear the air about the confusion arising over the Benghazi tragedy. And we wish General Petraeus well in his future endeavors, and so now consider the unfortunate incident closed.
 
50Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 19:55
Start at 6:00.
 
51sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:10
not news B...really, DO SOME RESEARCH then contemplate long and hard, before you post BS alarmist garbage
 
52Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:36
Listen to the special forces member [CIF] being interviewed.
 
53Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:39
Because he was there when Obama personally put his foot down...
 
54sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:46
He cant tell us, what was going on elsewhere. He isnt privy, to all the intel. Read the link in 49. I think maybe, you need to reconsider your pass-time, because it seems politics has moved beyond your ken.
 
55Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:52
Listen to the special forces member [CIF] being interviewed.

Don't be disuaded from examining the truth about the resources available in the case of Banghazi.

Don't let the spinners deflecting for Obama keep you in the dark any longer.
 
56sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 20:54
No B, what I am not going to do, is pay any more attention to your garbage. Even if you SHOULD, someday, somehow, make a valid point? You have spent ALL your capital. No integrity remains, to buy into.
 
57Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Sun, Nov 11, 2012, 22:24
Not about a video.
 
58Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 01:39
Ordinarily I would never give any assistance to MoxNews but this is really a CNBC piece at it's source.


 
59Boldwin
      ID: 361012125
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 08:17
Congressmen plan on making a big issue about investigating the timing of the FBI's acting on Patraeus' adultery scandal. Particularly since these things were well known well before they were acted on and the denouement slipped in so cutely between election and congressional hearing.

This may successfully counteract the attempt to deflect the story away from Obama's actions and onto Petraeus' side issues. Tho we all know the media can't resist focusing on a sex scandal.
 
60Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 11:11
Petraeus will testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

This should put the ridiculous blackmail theories to rest, especially since we already know the Republican leadership in the house committee wants him to testify at their hearing as well.

I think the next thing to set the wingnuts' hair on fire will probably be Patraeus' testimony, which will probably back the administration's Benghazi response and statements by about 85% or so.
 
61Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:10
Unless he holds back to keep the rest of the file from dropping.

How many honorable Americans is this president willing to throw under the bus for political expediency?

All of them.
 
62sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:20
Your paranoid delusions, might be comical, if they werent so clinically dangerous.
 
63Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:21
Right, because Obama just has to be guilty of a coverup or... some terrible thing or another.

God dammit he just has to be, if down has to be up and grass has to be blue then so be it - it just has to be Obama's fault.
 
64Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:21
It's not paranoi, sarge, at least not in this case. It's seething hate.
 
65Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:37
Something I'm pretty sure I heard at the time but didn't connect with the accusation of a Benghazi coverup until just now when I was reminded of it:

ABC News 9/14/2012:
The attack that killed four Americans in the Libyan consulate began as a spontaneous protest against the film “The Innocence of Muslims,” but Islamic militants who may have links to Al Qaeda used the opportunity to launch an attack, CIA Director David Petreaus told the House Intelligence Committee today according to one lawmaker who attended a closed-door briefing.

Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger, the top Democrat on the House Intel committee, said Petraeus laid out “a chronological order exactly what we felt happened, how it happened, and where we’re going in the future.”

“In the Benghazi area, in the beginning we feel that it was spontaneous – the protest- because it went on for two or three hours, which is very relevant because if it was something that was planned, then they could have come and attacked right away,” Ruppersberger, D-Md., said following the hour-long briefing by Petraeus. “At this point it looks as if there was a spontaneous situation that occurred and that as a result of that, the extreme groups that were probably connected to al Qaeda took advantage of that situation and then the attack started.”
 
66Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 23:37
None of those quotes are from Petraeus.
 
67sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 00:13
(1) You dont know what Patraeus said. It was a closed door session.

(2)Miths post says: ... Ruppersberger, D-Md., said ..., prompting the question..what the hell is your point?
 
68Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:41
I know for a fact

1) there was no protest

2) the jihadis who overran the compound were driving all over Benghazi in the back of pickup trucks for hours beforehand loudly praying and bragging that they were going to go and attack the Americans.

So Ruppersberger was either lying or misinformed and the only way Petraeus says it was about a video protest that naturally developed into an attack is if the administration has some even more embarrassing blackmail material they haven't already released.

While Stevens' team was meeting with the Turkish ambassador [in the CIA safehouse, not the building that was first overrun if I recall correctly] they were also in communications with the outside world detailing that they were under surveillance, asking for help, and might not survive the next 24 hours. It was a coordinated planned in advance event.
 
69Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:42
He's saying that he believes it's more likely that Ruppersberger is lying than Petraeus supported on 9/14 the idea that the attack was preceded by a protest.

I suppose it doesn't matter an to him that the CIA prepared a report on 9/15 stating that "“The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”"

...indicating that this is in fact what the CIA believed at the time.

It also doesn't seem to dawn on much of the hard right that believing the attack began as (or was preceded by or took cover in) a protest does not preclude the possibility that one also believed it was an act of terror at the time.
 
70Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:44
Benghazi is not Cairo.
 
71Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:45
They had a live feed from the site. There was no protest in Benghazi.
 
72Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:50
Who's they? And what time did they supposedly turn on their live feed?

Because everything we've heard from the CIA at the time is that they believed there was a protest.

What's awful is that the existence of a protest is such a pointless detail. Contrary to the bullshhit, never did the administration use the claim that a protest occurred to deny the seriousness of the incident. They were calling it an act of terror at the same time they believe it started as (or received cover by) a protest.

That detail is so insignificant and the hard right is hammering it because they care infinitely more about nailing the president to a wall than they do about any dead Americans.
 
73Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 08:24
Listen to the ex special forces/CIF member already.

Start at 6:00 interview goes nuclear a couple minutes later.
 
74Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 08:38
I won't be able to listen to it until tonight. I don't play audio clips at work.

Is this just a soldier's assurance that there was no protest or is this actually a relevant response which includes evidence that the CIA had confirmed there was no protest by 9/14?

And if so (and even if not, frankly) the relevant question should be why the CIA was still pushing the protest story on 9/14 and 9/15.
 
75Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 08:51
Hmmm...let's see. The administration sends a guy they have blackmail material on to do a Benghazi report. Then they backstab him and try and make the guy's personal life the scandal instead of Benghazi.

Yeah, it's soooo opaque. Murkiness, tumult and confusion. Who could we go to to possibly figure it out?
 
76Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 09:21
So that's a no on the question of Whether the audio clip is a relevant response. Let me know when you come up with one.
 
77Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 09:49
Limbaugh and Fox News working hard to get some answers.
 
78Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 09:53
MITH

There is no one you are going to hear who can tell you better, whether the response to the situation was appropriate.
 
79Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 09:56
PV#77

Puts that Saudi partial ownership of Fox news into a pretty bad light.
 
80Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 09:58
Rewording my question to suit your answer doesn't win you any points.

Does the audio clip in post 73 counter the evidence that the CIA had confirmed there was no protest by 9/15 or not?
 
81Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:07
As far as the Limbaugh angle, sometimes you have to pick your battles. He needs to operate in the zeitgeist to accomplish what he is doing, or at least the ring wing zeitgeist and you are never never never gonna get that truth driven into any part of the mainstream.

It's just something that insiders who have taken the time and effort to dig will understand and something the average guy on the street will never be able to wrap his mind around.
 
83Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:14
Oops. Wrong videos in #77.

Limbaugh and Fox News want some answers NOW!
 
84Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:17
MITH

For the issue you are focusing on for some reason, you need to listen to the guard in the compound.
A Libyan security guard who said he was at the U.S. consulate here when it was attacked Tuesday night has provided new evidence that the assault on the compound that left four Americans dead, including the U.S. ambassador to Libya, was a planned attack by armed Islamists and not the outgrowth of a protest over an online video that mocks Islam and its founder, the Prophet Muhammad.

The guard, interviewed Thursday in the hospital where he is being treated for five shrapnel wounds in one leg and two bullet wounds in the other, said that the consulate area was quiet – there wasn’t a single ant outside,” he said – until about 9:35 p.m., when as many as 125 armed men descended on the compound from all directions.

- Mcclatchy News Service

 
85Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:20
But more importantly, listen to the entire interview. Start at 6:00.

Radio Interview
 
86Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:25
That psychobabble in #82 means nothing to me. 9/11/01 can't be discussed on any level with Limbaugh and Hannity that doesn't 100% agree with the Bush administration. 9/11/12 can only be discussed by Limbaugh and Hannity on a level that 100% condemns the Obama administration.

Nothing deep here. Obsessive partisans practising hypocrisy.
 
87Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:32
the issue you are focusing on for some reason

Here's the reason:

You and the wingnut echo chamber have been claiming the administration directed Susan Rice to lie to the American people about Benghazi with the claim that the attack was not an act of terror but a protest.

But we have a US Congressman who told ABC News that prior to Rice's appearances on TV, David Petraeus himslef told a House committee that it started with a protest.

And we also know that on the day Rice went on TV, the CIA released information to the administration saying that it started with a protest.

We also have Condoleeza Rice acknowledging that conflicting intelligence is one of the challenges of dealing with national security and literally sympathisizing with the administration's initial reports.

Nothing you have written (aside from declaring Rep. Ruppersberger either a liar or stupid) responds to any of this.
 
88Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:35
And for the record, I'm aware that there was likely no protest. The point is the question of honesty and what the administration was told and relayed to the American people.

So far all evidence points to the liklihood that in the early days the CIA thought it started with a protest.
 
89Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:36
MITH

Go back and read what the guard at the 'consulate' said in the blockquote in #84.
 
90Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:38
See that, I can directly respond to your points before you even make them.

Funny how often no amount of explaining and re-explaining get an honest reaction out of you.
 
91Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:50
I knew about the guard's testimony a couple days later.

Obama's spokesmen were still pumping the video lie into October.

The poor video guy is still in prison to provide Obama cover.
 
92Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:56
Not to mention that the British embassy gave the Americans a headsup hours in advance.

Stevens set off alarms hours beforehand that he was being surveilled and might not survive the day.

It was freaking 9/11.

They had two drones on the scene.

They had live video feeds to the cameras in the compound I believe. The security shack set off the alarm that went directly to the top of the command chain

It was 3PM Washington time when the attack started, they were watching live. Someone was in the 'i killed Osama' situation room watching live.
 
93Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 11:04
Maybe someone else will find your dementia more worthy of their time.

Left me know if you find any evidence that the CIA wasn't telling the administration that there was a protest.
 
94Boldwin
      ID: 61050158
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 11:24
Let me know when you find a witness who told them about a crowd of protesters.
 
95Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 11:41
I've not claimed to know of any witness. Only what the CIA told the administration in a memo the same day that Rice went on TV and what Petraeus himself reportedly told the House INtelligence Committee the day before that.

I agree there appears to be a disconnect between the CIA's intelligence and what appears to have happened.

That disconnect and apparent intelligence failure would be the greater focus of someone who cares more about national security than a reason to feed his seething hate for the President of the United States.
 
96Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 12:19
Let me know when you find a witness who told them about a crowd of protesters

I don't know whether he witnessed the attack but according to CBS Evening News an Interior Ministry official in Benghazi seems to be one of the early sources for the claim that it started with a protest.
Wanis al-Sharef, a Libyan Interior Ministry official in Benghazi, said the four Americans were killed when the angry mob, which gathered to protest a U.S.-made film that ridicules Islam's Prophet Muhammad, fired guns and burned down the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.


He said Stevens, 52, and other officials were moved to a second building - deemed safer - after the initial wave of protests at the consulate compound. According to al-Sharef, members of the Libyan security team seem to have indicated to the protesters the building to which the American officials had been relocated, and that building then came under attack.


According to al-Sharef, the angry mob stormed the consulate after the U.S. troops who responded fired rounds into the air to try and disperse the crowd. Al-Sharef said there had been threats that Islamic militants might try to take revenge for the death of al Qaeda's No. 2 commander Abu Yahya al-Libi, who was killed in a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan in June, and he said the U.S. consulate should have been better protected.


Al-Sharef said the Libyan guards employed to guard the consulate building were far outgunned by the protesters, and thus retreated when the building was stormed.
CBS reported in a follow up article and the following night on Evening News that emerging evidence pointed to a coordinated attack rather than mob violence.
 
97boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 13:28
I am going to repost a this link since clearly no one must have read it the real Obama thread before the Benghazi thread: State Department looks to be covering up something by attaching CNN for doing Journalism.

I think It is pretty clear there was administration was trying to hide something.
 
98Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 13:33
Frankly, it sounds like CNN was hoping for a scoop and published the journal excerpts more than anything else. Taking a journal from the crime scene seems more slimeball than anything else.

I see no evidence of State "covering up" anything when they call out CNN in that way. When a media entity acts like a slimeball, part of the cost is that they can get called slimy.
 
99Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 18:03
Maybe McCain is the new face of the GOP. He skipped a classified meeting on Benghazi, the yelled at a CNN reporter about it.

Apparently he doesn't need to know the truth--he carries it around with him and who is the media to question him, anyways?
 
100Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 04:52
as I indicated in the last debate, when we received that phone call, I immediately made sure that, number one, we did everything we could to secure those Americans who were still in harm’s way ...”

[for example three times refusing to give the forces at the CIA safe house permission to go to the 'consulate' to rescue the ambassador - B]

...

We now learn that the government’s own Counterterrorism Security Group (CSG) was never convened during or after the attack. Members of the interagency group are steamed, and sources have been leaking information to Fox News and CBS, which reported this news yesterday.
 
101Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 04:56
He skipped a classified meeting

He refused to be shined. There isn't going to be anything useful received from this administration until people are under oath and threat of perjury charges.
 
102Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 05:14


Washington time? That's my guess.
 
103Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 05:17
 
104Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 09:41
Since you believe the administration should have known from the video feed that there was know protest, I presume you have info that they had it tuned up and were watching prior to 4:00ET?
 
105Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 10:00
“The clear impression we were given was that the overwhelming amount of evidence was that it arose out of a spontaneous demonstration and that it was not a terrorist attack.”

-Rep Pete King

Also, King supported what Ruppersberger said about Petraeus' earlier appearance with the committee in September, recalling that Petraeus minimized terrorists' involvement in the attack and emphasizing that it started with anger over the video.

The administrations' account is much more consistant than some want us to believe.
 
106Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 11:47
The GOP isn't interested in truth, but in politics.

They would like us to believe is some sort of cover-up, which doesn't even make sense, if true. What, exactly, would the Administration gain if everything the GOP says is true?

They don't even make internal sense:

 
107Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 13:53
Petraeus’ testimony both challenges the Obama administration’s repeated claims that the attack was a “spontaneous” protest over an anti-Islam video, and according to King conflicts with his own briefing to lawmakers on Sept. 14. Sources have said Petraeus, in that briefing, also described the attack as a protest that spun out of control.

“His testimony today was that from the start, he had told us that this was a terrorist attack,” King said, adding that he told Petraeus he had a “different recollection.”
---
Former CIA Director David Petraeus testified in a closed-door hearing Friday morning that his agency determined immediately after the Sept. 11 Libya attack that “Al-Qaeda involvement” was suspected — but the line was taken out in the final version circulated to administration officials, according to a top lawmaker who was briefed.

There’s your smoking gun, as the saying goes. Someone, or ones, somewhere redacted that crucial line.

Who?
---
A commenter – CatDaddyKSC – on Breitbart.com has an interesting theory:

Consider this possibility … the talking points came from the CIA, and they were altered by the campaign people in Chicago. The coverup has been about hiding the sharing of classified information with campaign officials who don’t have the proper clearance. This sharing of information could also be the source of the earlier leaks such as the virus in Iran’s nuclear program.

I’ve always wondered why David Axelrod appeared on news programs to talk about the administration’s official policies when he was a campaign official. Those of us old enough to remember Watergate will recall the mixing of official administration business with CREEP (Committee to Reelect the President) activities and the Democrat’s outrage at the time. Perhaps we are seeing the results of a similar improper mix.

CatDaddyKSC may be on to something, and I am highlighting his comment in the hope that the FBI and the staffs of the House and Senate committees will take notice. I suspect too that, if true, this is more than just an “improper mix.” Legal lines may have been crossed here with a political campaign redacting or helping to redact classified material it should never have seen in the first place.

What may emerge is a kind of government by cabal, a super-government composed of David Axelrod, Valerie Jarrett, Eric Holder, and possibly a few others who operated, in the service of the president, above and beyond our legal and constitutional systems — all the time thinking what they did was for the better good of our country.

Events like Benghazi could and should be whitewashed, since in their views Obama’s continued rule was of paramount importance. To say this is a crime beyond Watergate is to understate it. In the coming days we shall see how this evolves. It is the duty of every American citizen to watch carefully, since many forces conspire to push it under the rug. - Roger Simon PJMedia
 
108Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 14:19
Former Ambassador John Bolton said that General Petraeus’ testimony this morning ‘put this dead cat right on the White House’s door step,” referring to Petraeus’ revelation that the CIA had included that it was a terrorist attack by an Al Qaeda linked group.

Bolton goes on to say that short of evidence to the contrary, the only explanation as to how the talking points on Benghazi were edited to remove references to Al Qaeda and Ansar Al Sharia is that the White House did it. And he says it’s perfectly consistent with the fact that top level officials in intelligence and the State Department and elsewhere don’t have a clue who wrote the final talking points for Ambassador Rice.

Bolton on Fox
 
109Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:49
What little legitimacy the MSM has left is rapidly evaporating.

Review the media whack-a-mole strategy for avoiding their proper role in society.

The Benghazi scandal is not and never was...
  • Romney pointing at it
  • A trailer for a video no one saw, released months and months before Benhghazi
  • A sex scandal...tho liberals finally getting even with 'General Betrayus' should be a scandal hung around liberal's necks
  • Broadwell having classified documents...she had a security clearance
  • That 'we can can't fix what went wrong if you're going to politicize it'

    Benghazi is about
  • Assigning an American ambassador in Libya to organize an al qaeda genocide against the quasi-christian Alawites in Syria...that's what he was doin, recruiting salafist fighters and organizing arms shipments to Syria
  • organizing a genocide against the christian Alawites without notifying and getting the approval of the American people
  • Failing to have any upgraded security in place on 9/11 knowing how alqaeda operates on significant dates
  • Denying permission to rescue Americans under al qaeda attack for nine hours

    Listen to the interview
 
110DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 16:48
"organizing a genocide"

Wow, I think that's about the lowest you've ever gone on this forum, and that's saying a lot.
 
111sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 17:43
More partisan horsesh*t. Here is my post from another discussion yesterday, after the first rnd of 'hearings' by the Intel Committee:

OK, I am REALLY sick to death of the partisanship in D.C. The Senate held rd1 of hearings today re Benghazi. ALL of the GOP Senators interviewed afterwards, have been essentially saying "AHA! Gotcha!", while ALL of the Dem Senators are saying "AHA! Told ya they werent hiding anything"...ALL after hearing the exact same testimony.

Now, not a single one of us was privy to the testimony so being straight up honest, there isnt a one of us that can say one way or the other. However, when 100% of 1 party sees "A", and 100% of the other party sees "B", after attending the exact same testimony; then THAT is the very definition of blind ass political partisan hackmanship. If they were HONESTLY evaluating what was said, SOMEONE from one party or the other, would be leaning the other direction.

I am FAST forming the opinion, that we need to somehow get the electorate to vote ANY party other than Dem or GOP for a national election, across the board, and unemploy every damn one of them. THAT, would get their attention.
 
112Pancho Villa in GJ
      ID: 1010151016
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 20:36
Driving from Salt Lake to Grand Junction today listening to news/talk the whole way. Benghazi was main topic and the news feeds were ABC and CNN. There is so much more demanding of answers frm the media than, say, why did a 42 story building implode for no apparent reason, that I can only conclude Boldwin's critique of the media is not based on listening or watching media coverage, but on what his media sources tell him to believe.
 
113Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 20:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah...partisanship just makes your blood boil. If only we had a monolithic communitarian dictatorship, eh Sarge?
 
114sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 20:51
No B. If only we had a whole lot fewer slugs who buy into every self-aggrandizing theory they hear. People who turned off their party allegiance and listened with the same ears as an impartial juror in a criminal trial. But we dont have that. We have Republicans, who regardless of what is said, will twist t to attack a Democratic President, and we have Democrats, who no matter what s said, will twist it to defend a Democratic President. One side MIGHT be right, which makes the other predominantly wrong, but we on the street will never now which side is which, because we will never hear an HONEST evaluation of the testimony. Only party biased.And given your choices of news sources, there is no question which side of the fence you came down on, as of Sep 10th.
 
115Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:02
As to how soon experts in the WH situation room knew al qaeda was involved...

As soon as they saw guys like this they knew precisely...



They knew that because of those rolled up pant legs.

You see, in the Castro those rolled up jeans would be all like...'Aren't these new skinny jeans to die for? Couldn't you just die?'

However experts on the muslim world know that in that area those jeans mean, 'I don't care how muslim you think you are, I am more extreme than you are.'

It means in that particular city, 'I am a member of Ansar al Sharia, not a member of the other muslim militia in town, the other one which happened to be providing protection for the American gun-running operation in town.'.
 
116Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:33
Re:denied air support
The Benghazi coverup is much worse than you think. Clearly there were air assets on the scene above the CIA annex and they were denied permission to fire.

Tyrone Woods was painting a target with a ground laser designator (GLD). Those are only used when the air asset is overhead, ready to fire. The jihadis can use cell phones with night-vision capabilities to see the laser beam, which then pinpoints the location of the person using the GLD. As a former Navy SEAL, Woods would’ve known that. He would only have exposed himself if he thought that the mortar squad was about to be taken out. The air asset didn’t fire, and Woods and Glen Doherty were killed by the mortar squad.

There was either a Spectre gunship or an armed Predator or Reaper drone overhead, and it was denied permission to fire. That’s the only explanation that fits. Woods would not have used his GLD for any other reason than to paint a target for an immediate air strike.

Only the commander of AFRICOM and the president have the authority to tell the air asset to not fire in this situation. - Thomas Wictor

 
117DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:37
"Only the commander of AFRICOM and the president have the authority to tell the air asset to not fire in this situation."

I mean, I'm no military expert, but I'm pretty sure there are multiple layers of command between "random pilot/drone operator" and "commander of AFRICOM or the President", and that the above-quoted statement is complete horse****.
 
118sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:39
It is complete and total horsesh*t.
 
119sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:44
remember DW, that post is coming from the same guy who claims the gunship pictured, is capable of accurately putting a 5" shell into every sq ft of football field. Problem is? The aircraft doesnt carry a weapon which fires a 5" shell.
 
120DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 21:56
Well, yes, that too, but I figured there'd be a shred of internal fact-checking or basic hunman decency involved.


link
 
121sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 22:02
1978. I worked with the S-2 (Physical Security and Military Intelligence Section) of 3rd Sqd 11th ACR. I was an avid board wargamer, owning an dplaying multiple Avalon Hill games, and bought the new editions of Janes Military this-n-that as soon as they came out. The US Army, had intel on a Soviet Tank, which we called the T-72. Janes, along with Avalon Hill, called it the T-10. The stats we had in the Army, were classified yet here they were, publicly available. When I asked WHY then we classified it, I was told so as to avoid confirming to the Soviets, that we had that data. Now, is was safe to assume they knew we had it, but we didnt want to CONFIRM it for them. Gee, turns out, thats what the Administratuions story was here too...

WASHINGTON — David H. Petraeus, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, told lawmakers on Friday that classified intelligence reports revealed that the deadly assault on the American diplomatic mission in Libya was a terrorist attack, but that the administration refrained from saying it suspected that the perpetrators of the attack were Al Qaeda affiliates and sympathizers to avoid tipping off the groups.

Benghazi, Not Petraeus Affair, Is Focus at Closed Hearings


(wondering when we will hear Boldwin man up and say.."damn, I hadnt thought of that, but protecting that you have sources/capabilities they may not be aware of, is probably a smart thing to do."..my bet? 3 days after Texas goes Blue AND California goes Red.)
 
122Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 22:37
Here is a picture of the smallest ordnance on a Spooky gunship.

It's 5" and then some. No I didn't find a website that takes a caliper to the bullet. My point was that these weren't bullets from a 22 rifle. They were huge freaking 'kill you even if you have a foot of concrete covering you' bullets.

The Spooky has a radar that corrects the targeting and makes sure you actually hit the target Tyrone Woods has in his laser targeting, assuming you care enuff to actually "did everything we could to secure those Americans".
 
123sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 22:44
a shells size Boldwin, refers to the diameter, not the length.
 
124sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 22:48
you must have really dug hard to find the weapons specs, and drawn a blank on the caliber. A google search for "spooky aircraft" yields the wiki:

link

Armament
Guns:
3× 7.62 mm General Electric GAU-2/M134 miniguns, 2,000 rpm or
10× .30 in Browning AN/M2 machine guns
48 × Mk 24 flares
 
125Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 00:00
Again, I was just pointing out that these were huge bullets. A non-military background layman has no idea just how devastating a Spooky gunship is.
Cruising in an overhead left-hand orbit at 120 knots air speed at an altitude of 3,000 ft, the gunship could put a bullet or glowing red tracer (every fifth round) bullet into every square yard of a football field-sized target in three seconds. - wiki
What I said, great big bullets hitting everything it sees. It's a problem? Solved. That thing was overhead and the situation room told airmen, no doubt aching to save the men below, that they could not engage the target.

So your deflection from the Benghazi story and attempt to call me a liar is just so much empty and dishonorable deflection from a serious scandal to protect the revolution.
 
126sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 00:03
It would be difficult Boldwin, to be more wrong than you are and have been.

Gen Patraeus told the Senate TODAY, as reported in the NY Times article I linked above, why the story "changed" and why it didnt immediately come out that it was this-n-that group. You deflected back to the Spooky, which I AGAIN, corrected you on. Now, you accuse me of changing the topic? You spin, faster than those battling tops we had as kids, and you are about as meaningful a form of entertainmnet as they were too.
 
127DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:05
"A non-military background layman has no idea just how devastating a Spooky gunship is."

And yet you speculate endlessly.
 
129Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 02:14
You spin, faster than

Just tell me why Obama let Americans suffer an al qaeda attack for nine hours without allowing military resources on hand to save them.

Keep yer distractions from that question to yourself.
 
130Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 02:44
This Benghazi fiasco is Obama’s baby 100% and there is no way for him to wiggle out.

The system is designed to ENSURE that when a crisis is happening, (and a missing ambassador with a consulate under attack is “Crisis Level Infinity”), and military assets are already charging in to the rescue, the president must be in the loop to grant the the cross-border authorization. Nobdy else can do this. This one formality must be followed, “just put your intitials here, Mr. President, for history,” so to speak. Boiler plate, but it must be done.

(Can you imagine Reagan or either Bush saying “No. Cross border permission not granted. Stop the rescue. Stand down.”)

The POTUS has to tell the Sec. State and JCS, “Yes, do it, execute the rescue, cross the borders.” Then it WILL happen, without delay, since the military is already on the way, flying in from all directions toward Benghazi.

But if POTUS says at 5pm DC time, “No military action, no cross border,” and then he becomes “unavailable,” then his last standing order stands until he changes it. So if he went to bed, for example, nobody could change his standing orders.

I imagine that a lot of extreme military, CIA and State Dept. craziness was going down while Obama was sleeping. Aircraft must be told proceed, or return to base, or they fall from the sky. I imagine many HEATED arguments around the globe on phone, text and email, subject, “Well wake the damn president up!” Followed by, “I can’t! You MUST stand down the mission!”

Just imagine dozens of inbound planes, jets and helos. Ships moving at full speed into position to be “lilypads” for long-range over-water helo refueling. Airborne refueling tankers all head to the area. It’s a complicated ballet. The Pentagon is wide awake, the military is on full alert. The rescue is in process, from the first minutes after the alarm.

Everybody in all the planes and involved HQs knows how many minutes/miles to the Libyan border, Benghazi, and their “bingo fuel” moment, when they must turn around or run dry and crash. Ships can “loiter,” but planes fall from the sky.

So you can imagine why General Ham of Africom was relieved for refusing to stand down. He probably KNEW Obama was “unavailable,” and was screaming over the phone, “Well, wake him up, dammit!!”

Planes and jets and helicopters and ships and commando teams are zooming all around the central Med, keying in on Benghazi——

And in that environment, OBAMA WAS ASLEEP AND UNREACHABLE!!!!! Resting up for Las Vegas! With a MISSING AMBASSADOR, in Al-Queadatown!

Anybody not furious is a vegetable. - Travis McGee
 
131Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 03:19
THE WEEKLY STANDARD understands that it will take some time to “gather all the facts” about what happened on the ground in Benghazi. But presumably the White House already has all the facts about what happened that afternoon and evening in Washington—or, at least, in the White House. The president was, it appears, in the White House from the time the attack on the consulate in Benghazi began, at around 2:40 pm ET, until the end of combat at the annex, sometime after 9 p.m. ET. So it should be possible to answer these simple questions as to what the president did that afternoon and evening, and when he did it, simply by consulting White House meeting and phone records, and asking the president for his recollections.

1.) To whom did the president give the first of his “three very clear directives”—that is, “make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to?”

2.) How did he transmit this directive to the military and other agencies?

3.) During the time when Americans were under attack, did the president convene a formal or informal meeting of his national security council? Did the president go to the situation room?

4.) During this time, with which members of the national security team did the president speak directly?

5.) Did Obama speak by phone or teleconference with the combatant commanders who would have sent assistance to the men under attack?

6.) Did he speak with CIA director David Petraeus?

7.) Was the president made aware of the repeated requests for assistance from the men under attack? When and by whom?

8.) Did he issue any directives in response to these requests?

9.) Did the president refuse to authorize an armed drone strike on the attackers?

10.) Did the president refuse to authorize a C-130 to enter Libyan airspace during the attack?
 
132Pancho Villa in GJ
      ID: 1010151016
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 09:44
11. Did the president read "My Pet Goat" while Benghazi was under attack?
 
133Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:28
Blackmailing Petraeus
The reason it’s important is here’s a man who knows the administration holds his fate in its hands, and he gives testimony completely at variance with what the Secretary of Defense had said the day before, at variance with what he’d heard from his station chief in Tripoli, and with everything that we had heard. Was he influenced by the fact that he knew his fate was held by people within the administration at that time?”
---
It is just not believable that Attorney General Eric Holder knew about the affair and the investigation in late summer, and the FBI knew about it at least since May, yet the President was kept in the dark that his CIA director was under investigation.
---
In other words, President Obama was taking the credit for whatever “presentation” Rice made during her talk show appearances. Rep. Heck told Fox News, “The initial talking points, which were put together in an unclassified format at the request of the House Intelligence Committee initially did state that al-Qaeda affiliated groups were involved, however, we understand that by the time it went through its editing process after it left Langley (CIA), that reference was taken out.”
---
Was Petraeus changing his story and no longer parroting the White House’s line? That remained unclear, but it certainly appears that he changed his tune. Another oddity was the timing of an announcement by the CIA on Thursday, the day before Petraeus would be talking to the committees for the first time since his resignation, that the CIA inspector general would be conducting an investigation into his conduct. Another warning to toe the party line?
 
134DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:31
"And in that environment, OBAMA WAS ASLEEP AND UNREACHABLE!!!!!"

I thought ONLY HE COULD GIVE THE COMMAND TO NOT FIRE.

Must have been sleeptalking.


 
135Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:57
But if POTUS says at 5pm DC time, “No military action, no cross border,” and then he becomes “unavailable,” then his last standing order stands until he changes it. So if he went to bed, for example, nobody could change his standing orders.

 
136Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:06
Jenifer Rubin Washington Post
In a blockbuster report, John Solomon, the former Associated Press and Post reporter, has ferreted out the president’s daily brief that informed him within 72 hours of the Sept. 11 attack that the Benghazi attack was a jihadist operation.

Citing officials directly familiar with the information, Solomon writes in the Washington Guardian that Obama and other administration officials were told that “that the attack was likely carried out by local militia and other armed extremists sympathetic to al-Qaida in the region.”

read the whole thing
 
137Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:26
It's clear to me that Ham was temporarily relieved of command for allowing the C-130 Spooky to continue to station over Benghazi without specific authorization and he wasn't permanently relieved because he didn't allow them to fire.
 
139Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 14:22
From Boldwin's link in 136:
Solomon cautions that there were bits of evidence pointing to a spontaneous attack but, as Eli Lake of the Daily Beast and others have reported, he writes: “Among the early evidence cited in the briefings to the president and other senior officials were intercepts showing some of the participants were known members or supporters of Ansar al-Sharia — the al-Qaida-sympathizing militia in Libya — and the AQIM, which is a direct affiliate of al-Qaida in northern Africa, the officials said.”

How could the president and his senior staff then have allowed (or rather, sent) Rice to go out to tell an entirely different tale to the American people on Sept. 16 on five TV shows?
Here's how:
"First, the information about individuals linked to al-Qaeda was derived from classified sources. Second, when links were so tenuous—as they still are—it makes sense to be cautious before pointing fingers so you don’t set off a chain of circular and self-reinforcing assumptions. Third, it is important to be careful not to prejudice a criminal investigation in its early stages.”

“Most people understand that saying “extremists” were involved in a direct assault on the mission isn’t shying away from the idea of terrorist involvement," the official said. "People assumed that it was apparent in this context that extremists who attack US facilities and kill Americans are, by definition, terrorists. Because of the various elements involved in the attack, the term extremist was meant to capture the range of participants."
 
140Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 14:50
Mayday mayday
 
141Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 14:57
 
142Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 15:13
 
143Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 17:58


Sent while Stevens was still inside the compound.
 
144sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 18:03
GOP Rep Admits CIA Approved U.N. Ambassador’s Talking Points On Libya

 
145sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 18:05
let me clarify B...nobody, is claiming that the Administration didnt KNOW it was terrorists. Nobody is claiming they didnt know WHICH terrorist group it was. The source(s) of that info however were classified, and to divulge that we had that knowledge, would have compromised those sources. The story told, was necessitated by, operational concerns and national security.
 
146Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 18:10
He knows Sarge.
 
147Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 18:14
The conspiracy...to catch terrorists.

Clearly the Right is really, really pissed that a guy they don't consider "legitimate" isn't being bogged down in scandal after scandal. So they are inventing one.
 
148sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 18:39
and FTR Boldwin...NOBODY takes claim posted on a FB page, as a reliable source of hard data. I dont even think FOXSpews, is quite THAT stupid.
 
149Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 19:22
Sarge

Heck of a defense.

Tho al qaeda affiliate took public credit within two hours, we had to blackmail the CIA director into soft-peddling the terrorist angle when testifying behind closed doors to congress in order to safeguard sources.

Uhuh.
 
150sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 19:35
Song and dance time? I said FB is not a source for international intel. Whatever sources CONFIRMED the claim, required protecting.

*cue "Singing in the Rain" for B's next performance...*
 
151Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 19:52
There was nothing to hide. Al qaeda wasn't hiding it. They were advertising it. The British knew it. The other militia who ran away personally knew the al qaeda militia members they ran away from. I'd ask WTF you are talking about, but you are just waving your arms in desperate hope of distraction.
 
152sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 20:08
only a far right GOP apologist, calls the truth, a distraction.
 
153Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 20:17
I don't know that it was necessarily confirmed that al Qaeda was involved but it seems likely enough that they were the top suspect within a couple of days.

This wasn't ever contradicted by Rice or the administration. They did refrain from specifically naming al Qaeda or the affiliate but when Rice was asked about al Qaeda she said that was one of the things the investigation would determine.

CIA and other officials during Friday's hearings said the decision was made to keep that evidence classified while investigations continued.

You can assume this was a secret conspiracy involving involving an intelligence and military brass sex scandal and blackmail of the director of the CIA. Or you can give them the respect and leeway that any police chief gets when he chooses to withhold certain sensitive information from the public during an ongoing investigation.
 
154Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 20:43
And this explained then blaming and scapegoating a film-maker for a month how?
 
155Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 20:49
The film maker was never blamed for the attack, but for inciting a protest that gave opportunistic militants a hubbub to exploit.
 
156Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 20:50
And you'll have to ask the CIA why they thought there was a protest.
 
157Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 22:19
McCain doubled down today on his vow to stop Rice's confirmation.
Asked Saturday at a press conference at the Halifax International Security Forum if anything he was told by Petraeus would change his assessment of what Rice knew and the statements she made, McCain said, "No, because I knew it was a terrorist attack from the beginning. People don't go to spontaneous demonstrations with mortars and RPGs."
I'm not sure if he's twisting her words into a claim that it was protesters who stormed the consulate or if he's disqualifying her for failing to divulge classified information on national TV.

Either way, this man is disingenuously exploiting an atrocity that killed 4 Americans for the purpose of his own political relevance.
 
158sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 22:22
McCain largely lost his own political relevance, when he named Palin as his running mate.
 
161Boldwin
      ID: 210101723
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 01:47
You can't 'tip our hand' when everyone knows and everyone knows that everyone knows.
 
162sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 01:52
a rightwing blogger, knows more about National Security, than the Director of the CIA? Really Boldwn, REALLY? Not CONFIRMING what the bad guy suspects, is the whole point of the exercise Boldwn. Reread my 121 above. The data that the Dept of Defense had classifies as Secret, was openly available in Janes books AND in a board wargame. Still, the military had it classified to not confirm that we knew what we knew.

Dude, seriously, quit trying to undermine the idea of national security, You are in over your head and no biased blogger, is going to dig you out.
 
163Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 02:07
when everyone knows and everyone knows that everyone knows.

Of course the truth is that we don't know what everyone knew. Yes, lots of people were saying al Qaeda and that affiliate were responsible or at least involved. But we don't know anything about the people and circumstances around intel (possibly still being gathered) which could have potentially been compromised if the government had publicly settled on a culprit.

What we do know is that the CIA signed off on the final unclassified talking points and that Rice did not deviate from those points.
 
164Boldwin
      ID: 391032182
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 03:32
American Thinker Nov 17.
 
165Boldwin
      ID: 391032182
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 03:34
What we do know is that the CIA signed off on the final unclassified talking points

Where do you see that? I see the CIA's report being altered after receipt from the CIA.
 
166Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 07:25
Who's a source you'll accept? Pete King? Im not surprised you missed his statement on this because you don't click links here very much when you're in full hate mode and I'd noticed the righty sites are only publishing part of what he said after the House meeting.

So have a gander at post 144. King's comments are transcribed there but i really reccommend you watch the video to see just how uncomfortable it makes him to have to admit the CIA signed off on it and explicitly state that they gave no indication that they took issue with the change.

How surprising that every source you rely on for accurate information would omit such a crucially important tidbit, huh?
 
167Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 07:54
Another thing that some on the right are being dishonest about and others are just too duped or teeming with hate to see is that the belief in a protest and a belief that it was an act of terror are not mutually exclusive. The original draft of the CIA talking points and (which we are told was the same as the final draft that went to Rice except for the inclusion of named suspects) included both that an al Qaeda affiliate was involved an also that there was a protest.

The belief (again) was that the militants opportunistically used the spontaneous protest as cover to stage the attack.

This is what Rice said on 5 TV shows.
 
168Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 08:27
Again, ABC News' account of what Ruppersberger said right after Petraeus' 9/14 to the House Intel Committee:
“In the Benghazi area, in the beginning we feel that it was spontaneous – the protest- because it went on for two or three hours, which is very relevant because if it was something that was planned, then they could have come and attacked right away,” Ruppersberger, D-Md., said following the hour-long briefing by Petraeus. “At this point it looks as if there was a spontaneous situation that occurred and that as a result of that, the extreme groups that were probably connected to al Qaeda took advantage of that situation and then the attack started.”
He'd just walked out of a committee briefing with with head of the CIA and you dismissed him as lying or misinformed.

Here's Pete King from two days ago on that 9/14 briefing (during the same gaggle with reporters in which he stated that the CIA signed off on the unclassified talking points and that the Patraeus gave no indication that he took issue with that final draft):
"He (Petraeus) ... stated that he thought all along he made it clear that there was significant terrorist involvement, and that is not my recollection of what he told us on September 14," King said.

"The clear impression we were given (in September) was that the overwhelming amount of evidence was that it arose out of a spontaneous demonstration, and was not a terrorist attack," he said.
Isn't that funny? King's memory seems like it's probably off but his recollection is that Patraeus said initially that it wasn't terrorism but that it arose out of a spontaneous demonstration. He said that Patraeus' account of the 9/14 brief differs from his memory in that Patraeus claims he did include the belief that it was terrorism. Ruppersberger's account from the day of that brief supports Patraeus and surely you don't think Ruppersberger invented a terrorist story.

We'll chalk that up to old Pete having a rough couple of weeks following Hurricane Sandy, just like most Long Islanders.

So is it not clear enough yet that the CIA believed there was both a spontaneous demonstration and a terrorist act and then agreed to classify the al Qaeda part that information?
 
169Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 08:30
And of course lets not forget the good soldier King has been up to this point for the GOP's Benghazi Politicization Effort.

He's been demanding Rice resign as US Ambassador for going on TV and saying exactly what he believes Patraeus told him.
 
170Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 08:43
The morning talk shows are probably gonna be good today.
 
171sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 12:38
House GOP, gonna maintain their obstructionism. (apologies, cant remember the guys name...from GA) was just on with Candy Crowley. Everytime she brought up what the Pres said he'd veto a bll w/o (expiring the Bush Tax cuts for those making 250k+), this guy said that tax revenue needed to raise thru pro-growth reform etc etc, but rates needed to be lowered to do that.

same-o-same-o gridlock.
 
172Seattle Zen
      ID: 3603123
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 12:42
Let's not forget that the failure to properly describe what happened is FAR WORSE than a certain third rate burglary 40 years ago, FAR WORSE. We MUST have proper DEFINITIONS!
 
173sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 12:57
McCain on the programs this morning, calling for Rice to "apologize" for misleading the American people.

Appears as though John has been sufficiently humbled into playing the dutiful little Republican vs using his head.
 
174Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 13:41
Sen Graham seemed to back off on Rice a bit.

Round table discussions on one of the shows (ABC?) suggested McCain might be covering himself now for a legislative compromise with Dems coming down the road.
 
175sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 20:49
Congressman Joe heck on Soledad Obrien (Mr Heck is TOTALLY out of his league)

one brilliantly written comment, pretty much nailing the whole thing:

Joe Heck: Don't make me say what I know because I don't know what I need to know to know how to say it. Besides, I am saying what my handlers,,, er colleagues tell me to say so I don't have to know what it is I am saying, I just have to say it and as saying it makes it true, it has truly been said. If I cannot know what I said I should not be criticized for saying something that I frankly know is unknown. I have a lot more words and I will continue to sling them around in an incoherent manner incoherently because coherence can't be known and the Republicans must know what was not known by whom and when did they not know it. Ya Know?
 
176Boldwin
      ID: 1410591818
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 21:09
Send her to Benghazi if she wants to represent Obama.
 
177sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 21:15
you didnt watch the song and dance routine from Heck, did ya Boldy?
 
178Boldwin
      ID: 1410591818
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 21:40
What little legitimacy the MSM has left is rapidly evaporating.

Review the media whack-a-mole strategy for avoiding their proper role in society.

The Benghazi scandal is not and never was...
  • Romney pointing at it
  • A trailer for a video no one saw, released months and months before Benhghazi
  • A sex scandal...tho liberals finally getting even with General Betrayus should be a scandal hung around liberals necks
  • Broadwell having classified documents...she had a security clearance
  • That we can cant fix what went wrong if youre going to politicize it
  • Joe Heck
  • Getting Susan 'I gave America's greatest diplomat in a century, Richard Holbrooke the finger' Rice into the Secretary of State seat.


Benghazi is about
  • Assigning an American ambassador in Libya to organize an al qaeda genocide against the quasi-christian Alawites in Syria...thats what he was doin, recruiting salafist fighters and organizing arms shipments to Syria
  • organizing a genocide against the christian Alawites without notifying and getting the approval of the American people
  • Failing to have any upgraded security in place on 9/11 knowing how alqaeda operates on significant dates
  • Denying permission to rescue Americans under al qaeda attack for nine hours


Listen to the interview
 
179sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 21:43
So now you are defending Assad???????
 
180Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 21:54
Why isn't he slipping a pamphlet with that info into every Watchtower he hands out?
 
181sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 22:24
Republicans in Congress, and their pure political posturing. Where were the demands for investigations and heads to roll over:

2002 US Consulate Karachi, Pakistan attacked, 10 dead

2004 US Embassy in Uzbekistan bombed, 2 killed and 9 injured

2006 US Embassy in Syria attacked, 1 dead

2007 US Embassy in Athens, Greece attacked by grenade launcher

2008 Rioters set fire to US Embassy in Syria

2008 US Embassy in Yemen bombed, 10 dead


SOBs use the cry of "patriotism", fraudulently. Beyond political purposes, they got no use for the word.

 
182Boldwin
      ID: 1410591818
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 22:29
MITH

If you want to turn this forum into a discussion of how to prepare spiritually to survive the immanent great tribulation I'm all for that more important discussion. Until then I'll talk about the subject on the Forum Title [Poltical Forum] when I'm here and undertake a more important mission elsewhere.
 
183Boldwin
      ID: 1410591818
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 22:31
Sarge

Any other cases of allowing an al qaeda attack on an embassy for nine hours, with military assets on hand in position and doing nothing?
 
184sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 22:37
In other words..you got nothing but allegations.
 
185Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 11:48
These are not serious people.
 
186Boldwin
      ID: 1010402018
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 22:47
If they stick to their guns, they're serious enuff.
 
187Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 23:02
Since they don't vote to confirm, this is rather easy for them to blow this particular hot air.

Be interesting to compare that signature list with those who supported Condi Rice for Sec State.
 
188Boldwin
      ID: 411028215
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 06:29
This isn't where I want the focus. This isn't the story, not hardly.

But what it is is one of those rare, and I mean very rare instances where someone has written something so perfect and so very much better than I could have put it, that I can only stand up and cheer, and sadly wonder why didn't I and why couldn't I have said that first. Nothing more need be said on the matter. It can't be improved upon.

Human nature being exactly as described, a man must never never never put himself in the position Petraeus put himself into.
 
189Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 07:18
something so perfect and so very much better than I could have put it, that I can only stand up and cheer, and sadly wonder why didn't I and why couldn't I have said that first.

Really?
Scent of a Womb, you could call it. Men sniff it in the air, like a wolf picking up the odor of prey animals, and they are sprung to action. But it is useful to remember that as strong as that fertile pxxxy odor is to men, equally strong is the alpha male odor to women. Perhaps even stronger in women, since alpha males are so much rarer, and thus more exciting when discovered, than are young fertile women to men, who need only stroll around a SPWL neighborhood for a few minutes to ogle ten or fifty babes who can adequately stiffen the staff.

A woman in a room with a four star general is as overtaken by powerful urges to FxxK AND FxxK NOW as a man is when in the company of a pretty, young woman with suppleness in all the right places.


How in tarnation is Petraeus’s potato sack poster wife for Puritan living supposed to compete with this fuel-injected sex machine? There isn’t a man alive who would pass up a chance at tapping that harlot if his only alternative was Miss Massachusetts 1687. You may as well dangle a chunk of raw meat in front of a starving lion’s maw and expect it to sit still for twenty years.

Look, I’m not claiming Broadwell is any raving beauty. She’s probably around a 7, adjusted for age. And she has that incipient manjaw going on, a classic tell of the late stage America, careerist shrike tankgrrl female with clit dxxk. But in relation to the wife, she’s a hard 10. Hard enough to cut diamond.
This is writing perfection beyond your abilities to express?
 
190Boldwin
      ID: 411028215
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 07:46
I find it hard to believe that people who fly black al qaeda flags are this hard to peg, but this is the lapdog media's best and latest attempt at explaining Rice and the administration's explanations at the time.

I'm taking it on faith the CBS reporter is what he is touted as.
 
191Boldwin
      ID: 411028215
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 07:48
MITH

Taken as a whole, it nails it cold.
 
192Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 08:06
You know despite whatever I think of your opinions and ideology I've always believed you're a fine writer, certainly far better than I'll ever be. That's a genuine part of my occasional urging you to start a blog and my belief that it would have a good shot at success.

But your high praise of that Wordpress post has me scratching my head on several levels.
 
193Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 09:35
hard to believe that people who fly black al qaeda flags are this hard to peg

I don't think it's a flaw that the intelligence community seeks a more precise distinction than sticking it under the "al Qaeda" umbrella and leaving it at that.

If we'd continued that approach through the Sunni Awakening, Bush's surge would never have been able to steal all the credit for the reduced hostilities in Iraq that followed.
 
194Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 14:41
McCain changes targets while refusing to apologize for slamming Susan Rice.

I guess we should be grateful he's decided that the facts prevent him continuing down at least some of the conspiracy theory roads.

I fully expect the unrepentant Right to do the same--simply change their targets while whitewashing their own actions.
 
195Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 14:43
he's decided that the facts prevent him continuing

I wouldn't make that assumption just yet. Sometime in the next week or so he'll be asked again whether he'd vote to confirm Rice.
 
196Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 14:57
I'm sure he's already decided against her. Now he has to harvest "facts" to back up his conclusion. Too bad--she got the UN position by unanimous consent, if I recall correctly.

He said he was "surprised" that the DNI took out those talking points before giving them to Rice. One web site I saw had the comment "He says it like "I'm surprised to find I'm wearing these clothes."
 
197Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 15:02
Didn't see this before: McCain vows to block any nominee for Sec of State “until we find out all the information.”
 
198sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 15:53
No surprise there. Since 2010, the GOP has solidly been, The Party of NO.
 
199Boldwin
      ID: 5010412318
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 20:25
Discrediting the witness.
At this very moment, every story you read and every news snippet you watch regarding the Petraeus scandal is meant to do one thing: Cast doubt on anything General Petraeus says going forward.
 
200Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 20:39
What is it you think they're trying to discredit?


Petraeus' claim that no one in the CIA chain of command issued a stand down order during the first attack?

Petraeus' claim that he believed the attack started with a protest and that the CIA supplied that information to congressional intel committees on 9/14 and in classified and unclassified talking points that went to Rice?

Petraeus' claim that the CIA signed off on the unclassified talking points?

Petraeus' claim that the classification of the al Qaeda connection in the talking points was not political?
 
201sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 20:43
another rightwingnut blog, quoted as a source. Might as well quote yourself as a source Boldwin. Those opinion-writers, are no more capable of objective reporting than you are.

Really B, one would think that after having been totally proven wrong by the recent election reality vs the rightwing blogosphere predictions, you would begin to question the veracity OF that very blogosphere.
 
202Boldwin
      ID: 5010412318
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 21:06
No one has standing as a neutral source any longer.

There is an objective reality but you and I will never again agree on the reliability of the source reporting on it.
 
204Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 21:20
It's funny that your excerpt in #199 says the media (led by such hard political entities as TMZ and Inside Edition) sought to cast doubt on anything Petraeus says going forward.

But everything Petraeus had said leading up to the public Broadwell scandal supported the administration.

And then nothing in his story changed after the scandal broke.
 
205Boldwin
      ID: 5010412318
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 22:22
Yeah, 'we' just elected a president based on the understanding that he had applied the coup-de-gras to al qaeda.

Only the administration spent the whole election denying al qaeda had just murdered a USA ambassador on 9/11.

[An undefended, abandoned to die alone ambassador. An ambassador with a C-130 gunship overhead and special forces galore only minutes away.]

Contary to what the intelligence agencies had been telling him from day one.

And that is your idea of Patraeus and Obama having their stories in synch.
 
206Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 22:27
Denying is a creative revision.

But yes they are and have been in sync throughout.

The record shows this clearly but only if you rely on what was said rather than what the rightist media says they said.
 
207Boldwin
      ID: 5010412318
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 22:49
I don't know how to get simple truths past your belief system defenses.

'Al qaeda terrorist attack' is not synonymous with 'protests over a terrible movie trailer'.

There was no similarity between Patraeus' report and the Obama admin's characterization of what happened.
 
208sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 22:53
Judas {riest Boldwin...Patraeus himself said that the INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY gave the Administration the talking points saying it was over a movie, EVEN as the intel folks knew better. They kept that to themselves, for reasons you and I may well never fully know. (Thats how international espionage works btw. Partisan hacks in the middle of nowhere, almost NEVER get the true story in its entirety and if by chance they do run across it? It gets firmly denied by all levels.) Talk about not getting past partisan defenses. PATRAEUS said all that needs saying, to get past yours and you STILL refuse to hear it.
 
209Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Sat, Nov 24, 2012, 00:15
Al qaeda terrorist attack' is not synonymous with 'protests over a terrible movie trailer'.

Nor are those things mutually exclusive.

The intelligence that Petraeus described on 9/14 - according to everyone who heard what he said - was that they believed terrorists opportunistically exploited a spontaneous protest.

Intel received before or just after that, that the militants were linked to or at least idealistically aligned with al Qaeda does not change the accuracy of what Petraeus said on 9/14, which is the same thing Rice said when taping her interviews the following day.

I usually leave the psychoanalysis to you but in this case I'll share.

I believe your fetish for the word al Qaeda comes with an implicit denial that America is rejecting the hate-agenda you subscribe to. You're clinging to some belief that the strong national emotions that name evokes, pointed in the angriest possible direction by rightist media, would have been the difference between your current miserable reality and a merely terrible one with President-Elect Romney.

Keep it up and see where it gets you.

Anyway, I don't see why the knowledge that the group might have some loose ties with or a public admiration for AQ would make such a difference to an electorate that seems increasingly disinterested in what the hate crowd on the right says. Especially sine - and there's less than a 50/50 chance you will allow this sentence to register - Rice never said it was the protestors who became the attackers, but militants who seized the opportunity it presented.

But most importantly, the notion that the American intelligence community shouldn't be allowed to withhold information about a terrorist attack from the public during the investigation is patently absurd to begin with. Police refrain from naming suspects all the time during their investigations. But you think the people tasked with protecting us from terrorism shouldn't have that luxury?
 
210Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Sat, Nov 24, 2012, 08:54
Yeah, 'we' just elected a president based on the understanding that he had applied the coup-de-gras to al qaeda.Yeah, 'we' just elected a president based on the understanding that he had applied the coup-de-gras to al qaeda.

well, it was much deeper than that, and there were many other reasons...granted, these are things you're unable to grasp in your myopic goggles of hate, but Obama was elected for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is his appeal to - and the GOP's rejection of - minorities, and in particular hispanics.

your mocking posts of hispanics and the importance of their vote speaks volumes to that.
 
211Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Sun, Nov 25, 2012, 22:04
Congressional Republicans figure out their baseless attacks on Rice have reached the expiration date.
 
212Boldwin
      ID: 44100266
      Mon, Nov 26, 2012, 15:05
The answers are largely that Obama issued no such directive and Patraeus was blackmailed into supporting a false cover story for election purposes...but here are the questions a legitimate media would be asking the president.
  1. Why were several requests for enhanced security prior to the attack on the U.S. consulate denied?
  2. Who denied the requests?
  3. On what basis?
  4. Why weren’t previous attacks on the consulate and the departure of the British and the Red Cross sufficient evidence that enhanced security was necessary?
  5. If the perilous circumstances leading up to the attack wouldn’t trigger enhanced security, what would?
  6. Why did Joe Biden falsely claim during the vice-presidential debate that no one asked for enhanced security?
  7. Was it due to ignorance or duplicity?
  8. Why wasn’t the false statement corrected immediately?
  9. What time on 9/11/12 did you learn of the attack?
  10. What were you told?
  11. By whom?
  12. What did you say and do upon being told?
  13. It’s reported that you were meeting with SecDef Panetta when the attack began. What advice, if any, did he give when the two of you were told of the attack?
  14. Were you meeting with anyone else when you were told of the attack?
  15. If so, who, and what did they say and do?
  16. It’s reported that real-time video feeds were available during the attack. Did you watch the attack?
  17. If not, why not?
  18. If you did watch it, for how long and what did you observe?
  19. What conclusions did you draw from the fact that the attackers were using RPGs and mortars?
  20. Who else watched the attack with you?

    On October 16, you were asked by a reporter whether you denied requests for aid during the attack. You responded, “The minute I found out this was going on, I gave three directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. Number two, we’re going to investigate exactly what happened to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Number three, find out who did this so we can bring them to justice.”

  21. To whom did you give the directive to secure our personnel?
  22. What did these individuals do to carry out your directive?
  23. When did they do so?
  24. What did they do?
  25. Why weren’t our personnel secured?

    The New York Times reports that the Defense Department maintains that they didn’t get a request for help from the State Department.

  26. Why would the Defense Department even need to get such request if you had already issued your directive to secure our personnel?

    Fox News’ Jennifer Griffin reports that former Navy SEALs Glen Doherty and Ty Woods were ordered to stand down from securing our personnel three times during the attack.

  27. Is this true?
  28. If so, who gave such orders in violation of your directive?
  29. Why?
  30. Have they been disciplined?
  31. If not, why not?

    Griffin further reports that when Doherty and Woods asked for armed support at the CIA annex, the requests were denied. The CIA insists no one at the agency denied such requests.

  32. Who, then, denied the requests for armed support and why?

    Panetta, who was with you at the time of the attack, said about the lack of military response, “The basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces without knowing what’s going on, without having some real-time information about what’s taking place.”

  33. How is Panetta’s statement even remotely consistent with your directive, especially since you did, in fact, have real-time information from two drones and a continuous stream of emails from personnel in Libya?

  34. Have any personnel been discharged or disciplined for the evident failure to follow your directive to do whatever’s needed to secure our personnel?
  35. If not, why not?
  36. Why weren’t nearby Delta operators deployed to assist Doherty and Woods?
  37. Why were there no air strikes on targets painted by Woods?

    During the second presidential debate you asserted that on the day after the attack you identified it as an act of terror (in truth, you made only a general reference to terrorism unrelated to Benghazi).

  38. Accepting your assertion, why, then, did you thereafter dispatch U.N. ambassador Susan Rice to five talk shows to falsely claim that the attacks were due to a spontaneous demonstration resulting from a YouTube video?
  39. Why didn’t you correct Rice after she made the false claims?
  40. Why did you decline to identify the attack as terrorism when asked about it on Letterman and The View?
  41. Why did Secretary of State Clinton make the same false claim to Ty Woods’s father?
    Who came up with the video story?
  42. Why?

    General David Petraeus testified on November 16 that the CIA knew from the beginning that the attack was an act of terrorism, but on September 14, he told Congress the attack was due to the video.

  43. Have you asked General Petraeus why he changed his testimony?
  44. If so, what did he tell you?
  45. If you didn’t ask, why not?
  46. Did you or anyone in your administration instruct Petraeus to refer to the video in his September 14 remarks?
  47. Do you know why Petraeus, knowing that the attack had nothing to do with the video, never corrected the record until after the election?
  48. Did you or anyone in your administration instruct him not to correct the record?

    The original CIA talking points on Benghazi states that the attack was an act of terror with links to al-Qaeda. But the revised version Rice claims she relied upon does not.

  49. Who deleted the references to terrorism and al-Qaeda and why?

    DNI spokesman Shawn Turner says that office removed the reference.

  50. If so, why did DNI James Clapper earlier claim he didn’t know who did it?
  51. Since you claim you said from the beginning the attack was an act of terror, why didn’t you instruct that the references to terrorism and al-Qaeda be reinserted?

    Rice asserts she relied on the revised talking points during her talk-show presentations. But CBS News reports that she was also privy to the information regarding terrorism.

  52. Do you know if she read the original version?
  53. If she didn’t, does it concern you that a cabinet-level official wouldn’t read such important documents to fully inform herself on a matter of national security before making a false claim on five national talk shows?
  54. Is that the kind of judgment you expect form a potential secretary of state?
  55. If she did read the original version, why did she provide patently false information to the public?
  56. Since there’s no evidence that even the revised talking points referred to the video, where did Rice get that information?
  57. Has anyone in your administration apologized to the maker of the video for falsely accusing him — before the entire world — of sparking violence that resulted in the deaths of four Americans?
  58. Do you have any concerns about the potential chilling effect on First Amendment rights caused by your administration’s false accusation?
  59. Have any other probation violators merited the attention of your administration?
  60. Since you stated that Susan Rice had nothing to do with Benghazi, why was she sent out to the talk shows?
  61. Wasn’t Secretary of State Clinton available?
  62. Did she refuse?
  63. If so, why?
  64. It’s been reported that Susan Rice was once concerned about how the use of the word “genocide” by the Clinton administration to describe the 1994 Rwandan genocide might affect that year’s November congressional elections. Given that history, why is it racist/sexist/beyond the pale to ask whether Rice’s false assertion that the Benghazi attack was a spontaneous demonstration in response to a video might also be a product of electoral concerns?
  65. Regarding your directive that the perpetrators be brought to justice: There are reports about specific perpetrators actually being interviewed by media. Why haven’t any perpetrators been killed or captured?
  66. Whose job is it?
  67. What progress has been made?
  68. Have we received any Libyan assistance?
  69. Are you concerned that the fact no one has been “brought to justice” (except the maker of the video) might be seen by our enemies as a sign of weakness provoking other attacks?
  70. What was going on at the CIA annex?
Just for starters.
 
213Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Mon, Nov 26, 2012, 15:36
Some of those are very reasonable questions. Others not so much, either because they have already been answered or take assumptions and unsourced reports over on-the-record accounts of officials.
 
214Boldwin
      ID: 44100266
      Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 01:46
One of my least favorite Senators:

 
215Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, Dec 04, 2012, 21:46
McCain gets hoisted.

He really is just a cranky old man now.
 
216Boldwin
      ID: 51144621
      Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 10:31
It's a two-fer.

Benghazi and choice of guest entertainment at the WH explained.
 
217Tree
      ID: 421111810
      Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 11:14
Benghazi and choice of guest entertainment at the WH explained.

indeed. not only explained, but the full story including the incident that fueled such sentiment more than a decade ago...
 
218Boldwin
      ID: 2411531510
      Sat, Dec 15, 2012, 14:26
Hillary yukked it up with Barbara Walters recently but then went on to 'faint, fall down, get a concussion', and get replaced in testifying about Benghazi.

POLITICO POLITICO ‏@politico

Updated Breaking: Nides, Burns to replace Hillary Clinton in Senate Benghazi testimony Thurs.
Hey, is anyone interested in this really great bridge for sale?
 
219Boldwin
      ID: 191141719
      Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 20:06
Never having spent decades pushing my leftist agenda from behind the camera while desperately, humiliatingly covering tracks for "the talent," my sociopathic spouse -- and then, having finally burst out from behind that demeaning mask, finding myself reduced to running interference again for yet another sociopath -- I cannot deny that I, too, might be suffering from vertigo.

My question, however, is why this illness and minor injury, from which she is purported to be recovering happily at home, should be considered an acceptable excuse for not having to testify about a scandal in which she was a major player -- a foreign policy disaster for which she has expressly declared herself the buck's final destination.

Men died after a seven hour battle, and after their repeated pleas to Washington for help were rejected. In the wake of this horror, the Obama administration created a calculated cloud of conflicting half-stories in order to protect Obama's re-election bid. The centerpiece of their cloud of lies was a fabrication about a "spontaneous" or "natural" protest that never occurred -- and that they knew never occurred -- a lie which, by emphasizing and repeatedly blaming a "disgusting" video about Muhammad, actually stoked real and deadly protests throughout the Middle East.

But she isn't feeling well, and wants to stay home this week, so you should just forget the whole thing; goodness knows she'd like to forget it. (By the way, is this not the kind of fragility in the face of duty that ought to disqualify her as a presidential candidate?)...dismiss any ideas about offering her a rain check. After all, rescheduling her appearance for a future date is only likely to remind her of that urgent meeting she has to attend in Bora Bora, or the hair appointment she promised herself for Christmas, or poker night with the gals at Huma's. - American Thinker
 
220Boldwin
      ID: 011322421
      Mon, Dec 24, 2012, 22:32
 
221Boldwin
      ID: 1111212718
      Thu, Dec 27, 2012, 22:52
GOP Senators: We’re Not Going to Confirm Kerry Until Clinton Testifies on Benghazi

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2012/12/27/gop-senators-were-not-going-to-confirm-kerry-until-clinton-testifies-on-benghazi-n1474917
 
222sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Dec 27, 2012, 22:56
as the GOP continues to be the party of obstruct.
 
223Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Dec 27, 2012, 23:06
Heh. GOP: "Waaah!"

They know, of course, that she is actually hurt, having suffered a concussion after fainting and was at home for a week as a result.

The GOP has decided that since they don't have any game, they'll get in the way of people who do.
 
224Tree
      ID: 1910562515
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 19:35
Hillary yukked it up with Barbara Walters recently but then went on to 'faint, fall down, get a concussion', and get replaced in testifying about Benghazi.


POLITICO POLITICO ‏@politico

Updated Breaking: Nides, Burns to replace Hillary Clinton in Senate Benghazi testimony Thurs.

Hey, is anyone interested in this really great bridge for sale?


Still think she's faking it?

(not that i expect a remotely compassionate apology for you being wrong here as well, but hey, it just shows that once again, you were wrong about something)
 
225Nerveclinic
      ID: 52134819
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 20:42
I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but are you thinking the blood clot next to the brain is all a ruse, Baldy?

 
226Boldwin
      ID: 22052119
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 20:55
I'd bet my life on it.
 
227Boldwin
      ID: 22052119
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 21:00
As does Ann Althouse.

Even better, when the moveon crowd tried to shut her up:
And, by the way, I've gotten some pushback in email and on the web, saying that it was "shameful" and "appalling" for me to tie Clinton's health problems to a possible intent to avoid testifying about Benghazi. Let me tell you that a core motivation to my blogging — and I've been going at this for 9 years now — is to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming. So I'm glad that this performance of outrage was directed at me. I know it when I see it, and it fires me up. You want silence? You want backing down? You want me not to dare say a thing like that? That's how you want to control political debate in the United States? Thanks for reminding me once again how deeply I hate that and for giving me an (easy) opportunity to model courage for the more timid people out there who are cowed by the fear of shaming.

ADDED: Here's something I would dearly love to do with this blog: I want to make it so that emotive, intimidating outrage like that backfires. I want people to learn that they can't get away with empty assertions like "I am aghast" or "You are despicable." You have to give reasons for what you think. Even if you really feel those feelings. And, of course, many of these hack writers don't actually feel the feelings they scribble about. They just don't want to have to talk about the actual issue. They want to make it something that everyone feels they'd better not talk about. But that should be a loud signal: We need to talk about it!
 
230Boldwin
      ID: 22052119
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 22:45
I wonder how they decide who gets to use the 'can't comment on an "ongoing investigation" excuse and who has to take the Coumadin?
 
231Tree
      ID: 1910562515
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 22:49
<>I'd bet my life on it.

like you'd move to Costa Rica if Obama won? just disgusting to accuse someone of faking a blood clot in her head.
 
232biliruben
      ID: 41431323
      Tue, Jan 01, 2013, 23:39
You got a lot of hate, boldy old man. If she dies, will you accuse her of faking her death?
 
233Boldwin
      ID: 22052119
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 05:42
If she died, I would predict her resurrection after the Benghazi investigation closed.
 
234Boldwin
      ID: 22052119
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 06:46
You really have to applaud the evil genius in the way the Clintons can slow-walk a scandal. Even taking away points for how eagerly the lapdog press play along with them...they really are adding special new chapters to Machiavelli's 'The Prince'.

Even the devil must rub his eyes in disbelief over the stuff those two get away with.
 
235Tree
      ID: 2510132311
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 08:33
The Devil must rub his eyes in disbelief over the things you say... Or maybe that's your God doing the eye rubbing,
 
236Tree
      ID: 4104129
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 10:41
the sane, back off. (some however, don't)

With Hillary in Hospital, Conservatives Backtrack on Fake-Concussion Meme

 
237DWetzel
      ID: 5411161018
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 12:04
"The Devil must rub his eyes in disbelief over the things you say... Or maybe that's your God doing the eye rubbing, "

This statement incorrectly implies mutual exclusivity.
 
238Tree
      ID: 31012211
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 12:12
well, in Baldwin's world, they are certainly separate.

and while my God and his God are totally different, i'm baffled at a god that accepts applauding the death of political enemies or accusing someone of faking a life-threatening ailment.
 
239sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 12:27
No God does "accept" it per se Tree. That doesnt preclude its happening,.. but occurrence doesnt imply acceptance.
 
240nerveclinic
      ID: 569232410
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 13:19


baldy what's the end game?

I mean what ultimately is the issue?

I don't understand.

OK I get it that maybe Obama should have tried to send help. (hind sight 20-20)

OK I get it that when things went wrong, he may have covered up issues to secure re-eletection.

Is that it?

The right goes on and on about "the cover up" but exactly is the "big deal"

That an ambassador in a F'ed country may have died in the line of duty and may have asked for help and the Administration may have decided i wasn't worth the risk and may have later covered up any evidence of that?

Is that it?



 
241Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 13:36
Even the devil must rub his eyes in disbelief over the stuff those two get away with.

The devil is a sneaky guy. Wonder where Hillary would get such an idea, to fake a concussion and a blood clot so she could claim memory loss.

But his deposition did reveal startling gaps in the memory of the 79-year-old former president. In all, Reagan said ``I don`t recall`` or ``I can`t remember`` 88 times in the eight hours of testimony taken Feb. 16-17 in Los Angeles.

At one point, Reagan said he could not identify Gen. John Vessey, who served for more than three years as his chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. At other times, he said he could not identify a picture of contra leader Adolfo Calero, could not recall a shipment of Hawk missiles to Iran in November 1985, had no memory of signing one presidential finding relating to the shipment of weapons to Iran and had only the slightest recollection of signing a second such finding.

He also appeared hazy on the identity of Eugene Hasenfus, an American whose shooting down over Nicaragua helped precipitate the unraveling of the then-secret Iran-contra operation. And Reagan seemed totally unable to recall what the Tower Commission-a panel he appointed in December 1986 to investigate the affair-said in its report three months later.


link
 
242nerveclinic
      ID: 569232410
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:19

But Pancho Ronnie had Alzheimer's?

Anyway even with his lack of memory he was still busted on enough to impeach him.

Trading missiles to the pigs in Iran who had held American citizens as hostages for more then a year, and doing it shortly after their release??? That would be treason worthy of hanging if a different President had done it.

But Ronnies fans are either simpletons or simply have no shame.

I will vote they are just not so bright.




 
243Boldwin
      ID: 29042213
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:43
Nerve

1) Listen to it finally. Starting at minute 6. Set aside 20 minutes and listen to it finally.

You can't have a commander in chief who doesn't even remotely subscribe to the 'never leave anyone behind' principle. American forces don't expect to be treated like toilet paper. American people don't send their sons off to war on that basis.

Even pusillanimous Jimmy Carter understood this.

Even Jimmy Carter would have green-lighted solving this.

I believe the evidence strongly suggests there was a C-130 Spooky gunship overhead as Obama watched this go down live. A C-130 was designed for this situation. You couldn't ask for a better platform to handle this situation. Solving this situation was as simple as...

A) Center crosshairs.
B) Press trigger for the blink of an eye.
C) Send forces already at the annex to the consulate to leisurely pick up the pieces.

2) Failure to do so was a craven political calculation that the people in Banghazi were less valuable to them than winning an election. It was exactly like Susan Rice deciding to keep the genocide in Rwanda in the dark so as to not encumber Clinton's re-election efforts. Which also actually happen.

If you were a parent of a serviceman would you want your family member's life hanging on that thread?

3) Avoiding the debate over this issue also avoids the debate, 'should America be arming al qaeda to take over Syria'. That is what the ambassador was doing.

4) These people were also sacrificed to avoid letting America face up to the reality that islamism was not solved with the death of OBL. Far from it. Obama didn't green-light the rescue mission, but he curiously did green-light the takeover of the Sunni world by al qaeda's daddy, the Muslim Brotherhood.

Cliff Notes version:
American soldiers, American diplomats and the American people's future are not toilet paper, 'mister' president.
 
244sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:46
B? WTF would you know about military life, honor or commitment? Seriously dude...just WHAT, do you know about it?
 
245Boldwin
      ID: 29042213
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:48
I understand waiting for a rescue.
 
246sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:50
no you dont. You've not been under fire. You've not shouldered that weight. My team and I we KNEW, we'd be "left behind" if it came t that. National interests, put the welfare of the nation way ahead of our welfare as troops. Same thing here B. Believe it, those fellas knew full well, the hazards attached to the job.
 
247Boldwin
      ID: 29042213
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:57
Listen to the former Commanders' In-Extremis Force member talk in the interview in #243.

I am positive he understands national interest, honor, rescue and the burden.
 
248sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 14:59
None of which has a damn thing to do, with you. And FTR, he is playing politics and not being honest with you. EVERY single SF soldier knows damn good and well, their next mission, could land them wherever they will lay for all eternity.
 
249Boldwin
      ID: 29042213
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 15:03
Ah, he's playing politics and you are looking at this like a hard-nosed hard-bitten soldier.

I dare anyone to listen to that interview and tell me Sarge isn't the one playing politics.
 
250sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 15:13
General Officers in the Army, Admirals in the Navy...are more politician than they are military commanders at that point. You dont get the star, if that isnt the case.
 
251nerveclinic
      ID: 569232410
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 16:25

So that is it Baldwin? Wow I thought I was missing something.

 
259Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 21:28
Once again the lack of evidence is considered evidence so long as it "proves" the point of the conspiracy theorists.

nerve: Boldwin has no end game. He's like the school principal hoping to catch the sick boy "faking" being sick so as to get out of finals. He doesn't seem to realize that the boy will have to take the finals anyway. It is all in the superior attitude of the chase.
 
263Seattle Zen
      ID: 3603123
      Sat, Jan 05, 2013, 13:11
I'd suggest, Bolwin, that you stop posting for a while or there will be no evidence left that you have ever even seen this site.
 
264nerveclinic
      ID: 205418
      Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 18:31

Baldwin

Starting at minute 6. Set aside 20 minutes and listen to it finally.

I did as you asked...yawn.

Absolutely nothing new. Nothing that I didn't already assume.

Again, that's all you've got?

And in the end, the only worse case scenario you seem to be implying is a mistake was made, a bad decision, and 4 Americans died because of it. That's all I can see. and I am left scratching my head what all the hand wringing is about.

And in the end, as your spokesman said, you and he were not privy to all the information.

Everything they said was hear say and speculation and coming from talking heads that, let's face it hate Obama, hate him with a venom.

And I would also lay money that this soldier has an ax to grind with Obama, loved the fact that he could criticize and Monday morning quarterback because there is a lot of hate in the military for Obama. I've heard it, I've seen it, and I didn't vote for Obama in either election, nor would I, but you still have shown me nothing that impresses me.

 
265Boldwin
      ID: 1054104
      Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 18:59
Wow.
 
266sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 19:18
thats what happens B, when you view it WITHOUT having decided ahead of time, what your conclusion would be.
 
267sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 13:11
Future Pres Clinton, roasting Rep Sen Johnson
 
268Tree
      ID: 160222313
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 14:22
let's embed that sucker. She took that whippersnapper to school.



"With all due respect, the fact is we had dead four Americans. Was it because of a protest, or was it because guys out for a walk one night who decided they’d go kill some Americans? What difference, at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and doing everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again Senator." - Hilary Clinton
 
269Nerveclinic
      ID: 410331010
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 14:51


The funny thing is....

there were many on the right, who schooled us that the reason Petraeus was caught up in a scandal, was all a conspiracy, to keep him from testifying about what went on in Benghazi...

(Boldwin: And then General David Petraeus, the CIA Director gets the blackmail material dumped in public so he resigns, which keeps him from testifying in congress about Benghazi next week.)

To all their astonishment, he testified under oath 1 week later with no earth shattering revelations.

Then, when Hillary Clinton became ill, we were assured she was faking it to avoid testifying about Benghazi.

(Boldwin: Hillary yukked it up with Barbara Walters recently but then went on to 'faint, fall down, get a concussion', and get replaced in testifying about Benghazi.)

A week later when it was revealed she had a clot in the brain we were assured it's because if she testified it would be so damning, so shocking she and Barry would never live it down.

Then by some miracle she too testified today, in Public, for all to see, and shockingly she didn't fold under pressure and reveal that Barack Obama had actually hired the Muslim Brotherhood and supplied them with weapons to attack the embassy.

So what's your next prediction sir?

 
270Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 14:57
Salon via Twitter:
Rand Paul's "had I been president" moment explains why Rand Paul will never be president
 
271Tree
      ID: 160222313
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 14:58
i am guessing Baldwin is going to welsh on his bet in 226.
 
272boikin
      ID: 430211013
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 19:53
the quote in 268 is completely contradictory how can she says it does not matter, then say its our job to find out what happened? Um either it does matter or your job doesn't matter.
 
273Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 19:55
Sen Johnson's question had to do with Rice being "intentionally misleading" and whether Clinton knew about it. That certainly does not matter, particularly when you are trying to find out the truth about things.

The GOP continues to insist that this is about a coverup and they are only interested in things that lead toward that conclusion. Clinton is right that it is more important to find the actual truth.
 
274boikin
      ID: 430211013
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 20:53
So in other words her argument is that maybe we mislead maybe we didn't but this doesn't matter...that sounds kind of like what W said about WMDs. you know it doesn't really matter now what we said and did then.

I don't really care too much about this issue either way who said what when but it does seem that there was evidence that ambassador knew there was trouble coming and he seemed to be ignored. These are the questions that need to asked. I think this is why at least in my opinion I think they knew what really happened because basically they had been warned by their own people.
 
275sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Wed, Jan 23, 2013, 21:04
No boikin. Her argument is, that the situation was fluid at the time. That NOW< it is pointless and counterproductive, to question WHY it was fluid. NOW, is the time for getting down to what actually happened and finding those responsible.

It is HIGH time, the GOP drop this. they are not seeking a solution, they are seeking a scapegoat.
 
276Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 00:25
Elsewhere she pointed out that Rice didn't mislead. Sen Johnson continued to insist that was not only true, but that it should have driven the narrative from the very start.

In other words, the Administration should have known from the very first moment that it was a terrorist act and acted accordingly. Clinton's point was that they didn't really know and that her first actions were to get people to safety and care for their injuries. Johnson believed that State should have been interviewing the injured before the FBI got there to determine if it was a terrorist act that got them injured.
 
277Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 00:27
From the very start, the GOP has taken the Administration to task for not proving the GOP talking points on this issue.
 
278boikin
      ID: 430211013
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:11
re 275: Sarge they all ready know what happened and who did it.

re 276: like I said before they are asking the wrong questions, either a) they already knew what this was bad situation and failed to protect their people or b) their intelligence was woefully terrible. either way it shows there are some real problems which intelligence/foreign affairs departments. This is what is being covered up now if you guys want to keep defending this that is fine, but I would have much rather someone come out and say you know what we screwed up and actually gave details. the problem is that they talk in riddles then they wonder why no one trusts government.

 
279Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:18
Boikin from you comments it sounds an awful lot like you didn't watch or read the transcript of the hearing and are basing your opinions on other people's opinions.
 
280boikin
      ID: 430211013
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:39
I admit I only watched the part posted above so maybe the more relevant parts are addressed else where in the hearing. As for the opinions those are based off what I read new stories following the attack. So not other peoples opinions.
 
281Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:50
Well, opinions like:

...either way it shows there are some real problems which intelligence/foreign affairs departments. This is what is being covered up...

...seem oblivious to the fact that an Accountability Review Board investigated the incident and offered some very harsh criticisms of the State Department last month. The same board issued 29 recommendations for addressing the deficiencies they found. State agreed to implement all 29.
 
282Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 11:54
Accountability Review Board findings

That was released on December 19th. Read that and then ask yourself if most of the questions asked by Republican senators yesterday gave any indication that they had read that report.
 
283Frick
      ID: 2193319
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 12:06
Considering most of the views on science, and how they love the bible, yet can't seem to live by its commands, I'm going to guess no.
 
284sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 13:14
The Senate hearings, are pure political posturing by the GOP. Meant to "score points" with their base and hopefully influence Senatorial elections in neighboring states, to move a few seats into the GOP column.

They (the GOP), git part of what they wanted by railroading the potential of Rice being nominated to Sec State. That put Kerry into that seat, and puts his seat up for grabs. Had Rice gotten the State nod, Kerry would surly hold his seat in any upcoming re-election bid.
 
285Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 13:16
Clinton spent an awful lot of time referring the Senators to the report (both the public and the classified versions) for many of the answers they were asking her.
 
286sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 13:47
wonderful meme floating around FB right now:

"I want to thank the Republicans, for giving us a 4 hr Hillary 2016 commercial yesterday!"

 
287Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 15:01
Joe Gandelman at The Moderate Voice
What was most notable about Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s testimony to Congress yesterday was this fact: if you didn’t look at the TV or if you listened to it on the radio you KNEW which party many lawmakers belonged to without hearing them identify themselves.
Democrats praised her profusely. And many of the GOPers sounded less like members of Congress and more like callers on conservative talk shows, or people who were repeating key points made by Sean Hannity and others on Fox News. You got the sense from some of the tone of their questions they considered her a potential Democratic Presidential nominee — and wanted to start cutting her down to size.


Clinton appeared to be if not the only adult, one of the adults in a room with sugar-crammed children, often taking questions from GOPers who were acting out.

Some acted out their own personal issues and bitterness over lost battles (Arizona Sen. John McCain), others seemed to want to make a splash and extract a big apology (Sen. Ron Johnson) and Sen. Rand Paul seemed to be making a craven attempt to win over the GOP base in an all but formal announcement in his lectures to Clinton about how he’d fire her if he had been President (REALITY TO RAND PAUL: You won’t ever be President since your appeal is so narrow and has zero appeal to the country’s growing demographics that sunk the GOP in the 2012 national election — and you narrowed your appeal some more but you sure pleased Rush, Sean and Mark and many conservative bloggers).
And before we get flooded with name-calling emails (liberal! leftie! not moderate! how can you say that about Rand Paul? you have an agenda! liar!), GO HERE to read a USA Today piece about how Rand Paul was sending out video of the exchange.
 
288Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 17:18
Republicans puzzled why they didn't slay Clinton yesterday.
 
289Boldwin
      ID: 310182420
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 21:37
The Clinton's wrote the book on stonewalling, slow walking a scandal, leaning on an adoring lapdog press to then spring an attack on accusing congressmen. Deny deny deny and then count on your firemen in the press to put out the fire.

Democrats in the Dem administration can get away with beyond murder, there isn't any scandal they can't slide on.

It's 1984 and according to the official recorder of events Benghazi never happened.

Those of us in the reality based community know better.
 
290sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jan 24, 2013, 21:57
Wasnt it Reagan, who was called "The Teflon President"? Yeah, thought so.
 
292Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 00:24
That native Mali says that Tauregs make up 2% of the population of Northern Mali.

While it's hard to make precise census estimations in such an area, It's probably safe to say the area Tauregs call Azawad is at least 50% in Timbuktu and 35% in Gao.

Regardless, it appears support for caliphate establishment isn't enjoying much support among traditional Mali Muslims.
 
293Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 00:25
Oops. 292 belonged in Social Network Wars.
 
294nerveclinic
      ID: 205418
      Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 11:13


But Baldwin I still want to know what happened.

You told everyone that the Petraus scandal was to prevent him from having to testify, yet he did.

You told us Clinton's fake illness was to prevent her from testifying, yet she also did.

What gives brah?



 
295Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Jan 25, 2013, 19:41
Top ten Republican myths
 
296Boldwin
      ID: 30137817
      Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 06:15
 
297Boldwin
      ID: 30137817
      Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 06:20
Nerve

Patraeus testified while the WH held blackmail material over his head and just before the WH destroyed his credibility and shifted attention from their guilt to his love life.

Clinton 'slow rolled' the scandal. Something that crime family has a lot of experience doing.
 
298sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Sat, Feb 09, 2013, 08:53
proof, vs mindless partisan accusations, of any contention put forth in 297....we are waiting......
 
299Boldwin
      ID: 581501018
      Sun, Feb 10, 2013, 19:51
This is an outstanding account of background operations that impacted and probably caused the attack. The material is based on classified stuff and off the record interviews so you can feel free to take it with a grain of salt. I myself think they missed the 'spooky overhead' story and I think I noticed something else missing, [I forget what it was atm] but it seems like valuable info.
 
300sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Sun, Feb 10, 2013, 20:14
keep rereading this paragraph, from your link:

How much of Murphy and Webb’s version should we believe? Given that they don’t tell us who their sources are, not to mention the conspiratorial tone to some of their insinuations, skepticism is in order. They tell us not to trust the mainstream media, which is fine, but their utter opacity about sourcing should be taken with a truckload of salt.

Not a GRAIN of salt...a TRUCKLOAD. IOW, fiction, peddled for the appetite of the far rightwingnuts, who buy every AC title, S Palin title and G Beck title, on the day they are released. THAT, is their target audience, and they know that audience, rather well.
 
307Seattle Zen
      ID: 3603123
      Sat, Feb 16, 2013, 13:37
Disgusting photos of violated, bloody corpses maybe part of the fun in your sick corner of the internet, Baldwin, but they are never welcome here.
 
309Boldwin
      ID: 36114188
      Mon, Feb 18, 2013, 20:22
It's all just a big, 'what's the big deal' joke to liberals.

I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure we are securing our personnel [failed - B] and that we are doing whatever we need to. [failed - B] Number two, we are going to investigate exactly what happened and make sure it doesn’t happen again. [let the one guy they captured go without insisting on being allowed to interrogate him - B] Number three, find out who did this so we can bring them to justice.” [not even trying - B]

Those are the words of Obama regarding his orders on the evening of September 11th 2012 and the attack on the Consulate in Benghazi.

“Make sure we are securing our personnel and that we are doing whatever we need to.”

This is a claim Obama has made over and over again.

Now…let me take you to the direct testimony, under oath, of Leon Panetta and General Dempsey just a couple of days ago.

SEN. GRAHAM: Your testimony, as I understand it, Secretary Panetta, that you talked to the president of the United States one time.
SEC. PANETTA: I talked to him on Sept. 11 with regards to the fact that we were aware this attack was taking place.
SEN. GRAHAM: One time.
SEC. PANETTA: Right.
SEN. GRAHAM: What time did you tell him that?
SEC. PANETTA: I think that was approximately about 5 o’clock?
GEN. DEMPSEY: Yeah, about 5 o’clock.
SEC. PANETTA: About 5 o’clock.
SEN. GRAHAM: General Dempsey, did you ever talk to the president of the United States at all?
GEN. DEMPSEY: I was with the secretary when — at that same time.
SEN. GRAHAM: Did you talk to the president?
GEN. DEMPSEY: Yes.
SEN. GRAHAM: You talked to him how many times.
GEN. DEMPSEY: The same — one time.
SEN. GRAHAM: How long did the conversation last?
GEN. DEMPSEY: We were there in the office for probably 30 minutes.
SEN. GRAHAM: So you talked to him for 30 minutes, one time, and you never talked to him again, either one of you. [no conversations whatsoever about cancelling stand-down order, deploying aircover, sending backup - B]
GEN. DEMPSEY: Until afterwards.
SEN. GRAHAM: Until after the attack was over.
GEN. DEMPSEY: That’s right.
SEN. GRAHAM: Thank you.

Let that sink in. Read it again if you need to and let it sink in deep.

More than 3 dozen Americans and Libyans working on behalf of our State Department were under attack by terrorists including our Ambassador and he never once wanted to know what was happening.

During an attack that lasted 7 hours, Obama never checked in. While Ambassador Stevens was missing, he never knew it because he never checked in. When Tyrone Woods asked permission to go to the rescue, Obama knew nothing of it because he never checked in. When Woods defied orders and went anyway, Obama didn’t know because he never checked in. When Tyrone Woods returned to the CIA Annex with the BODY of his fallen countrymen…Obama didn’t know because he never checked in. When the Annex came under attack, when MORE calls for help went out, when Glen Doherty joined the fight, when Doherty and Woods were killed…Obama never knew because he never checked back in.

People…AMERICANS that HE sent to one of the most dangerous places on earth were under attack by TERRORISTS…People Obama claims to be RESPONSIBLE for are being attacked, our consulate in flames, a CIA Annex being rocketed…4, under HIS responsibility…KILLED…ON THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE MOST DEADLY TERRORIST ATTACK IN U.S. HISTORY…
---
Senator John McCain lit into Dempsey: “When you’re talking about the Benghazi issue, you say, ‘We positioned our forces in a way that was informed by and consistent with available threat estimates,’” then you go on to say, ‘Our military was appropriately responsive,’ even though seven hours passed and two Americans died at the end of that. Then you go on and say, ‘We did what our posture and capabilities allowed.’” [tell that to general Ham and admiral Gaouette - B]

McCain then brought up a base in Crete was just 90 minutes away.

“We could have placed forces there. We could have had aircraft and other capabilities a short distance away at Souda Bay, Crete. So, for you to testify before this committee that they were consistent with available threat estimates is simply false; that our military was appropriately responsive.”

When responding to Senator Kelly Ayotte, Panetta stated: “Unfortunately, there was no specific intelligence or indications of an imminent attack [despite the ambassador's own communications before the attack - B, Britain's warning, etc.] on that — U.S. facilities in Benghazi. And frankly without an adequate warning, there was not enough time given the speed of the attack for armed military assets to respond.”

“The bottom line is this: That we were not dealing with a prolonged or continuous assault, which could have been brought to an end by a U.S. military response, very simply, although we had forces deployed to the region.”

General Dempsey claimed he could not have gotten troops on the ground within 13 to 15 hours.

Gereral Ham believed HE had assets within reach to offer assistance.

He was relieved of his command.

Rear Admiral Gaouette also believed HE had assets which could have reached Benghazi in time.

He also, was relieved of his command.


The claim last week that we had no assets available is a contradiction to what Panetta said at a Pentagon news briefing, on Oct. 26, 2012. There, Panetta claimed the reason for not sending assets to Benghazi was because, there was no “real-time information” to be able to act on, even though the U.S. military was prepared to do exactly that.

“You don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on,” Panetta said. “(We) felt we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”

And THAT statement from October 26th flies in the face of OTHER testimony INCLUDING some of Panetta’s OWN testimony last Thursday.

We know that we had real time intell being relayed by 1 former Navy SEAL as the attacks began and 2 former SEALS when the attack transitioned to the CIA Annex.

We were told by the State Department’s Charlene Lamb, several times, that they were watching the attack in real-time via closed circuit.

So we didn’t have enough intell to launch assets into Benghazi?

AND, from last Thursday, we were told by by Panetta himself that, within 17 minutes we had an unarmed, surveillance drone dispatched to give U.S. officials a better idea of what was happening and IT arrived at the site about 70 minutes after the attack or, approximately…10 minutes before Panetta’s and Dempsey’s meeting with Obama.

So…According to Panetta and depending on what day you ask him, either we lacked the inell but had the assets to send to Benghazi or…We HAD the intell but lacked the assets.

According to Charlene Lamb there WAS a live feed of the attacks and it WAS being watched or…According to Hillary Clinton there was NO live feed to be watched by anyone.

Either Obama WAS responsible as HE says he was or…Obama never once checked in to see what was happening as Panetta and Dempsey said.

There either WAS “an urgent request from the CIA annex for military back-up during the attack on the U.S. consulate and subsequent attack several hours later on the annex itself was denied by the CIA chain of command — who also told the CIA operators twice to “stand down” rather than help the ambassador’s team when shots were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11,” OR…There was NO stand down orders.

Obama has called what happened in Benghazi “Bumps in the road,” “Not optimal” and 2 weeks ago, in a 60 Minutes interview with Hillary Clinton at his side…Obama responded to a question about Benghazi by saying, “You know, I remember Bob Gates, you know, first thing he said to me, I think maybe first week or two that I was there and we were meeting in the Oval Office and he, obviously, been through seven presidents or something. And he says, ‘Mr. President, one thing I can guarantee you is that at this moment, somewhere, somehow, somebody in the federal government is screwing up.’ “
Yuk it up.
 
310Boldwin
      ID: 14122228
      Fri, Feb 22, 2013, 09:36
I'm guessing this was to reward drone pilots for not leaking Benghazi negligence.
 
311Boldwin
      ID: 22130283
      Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 05:10
Jay Carney: Al Qaeda is on the run, they're just running forward - The People's Cube [yes, it's satire for the humor impared]
With weapons the USA ambassador to Libya was supplying, I might add.
 
312Boldwin
      ID: 41245422
      Mon, Mar 04, 2013, 23:49
The novelist who knew too much.

Gérard de Villiers - author of “Les Fous de Benghazi”
De Villiers has spent most of his life cultivating spies and diplomats, who seem to enjoy seeing themselves and their secrets transfigured into pop fiction (with their own names carefully disguised), and his books regularly contain information about terror plots, espionage and wars that has never appeared elsewhere. Other pop novelists, like John le Carré and Tom Clancy, may flavor their work with a few real-world scenarios and some spy lingo, but de Villiers’s books are ahead of the news and sometimes even ahead of events themselves.

Nearly a year ago he published a novel about the threat of Islamist groups in post-revolutionary Libya that focused on jihadis in Benghazi and on the role of the C.I.A. in fighting them. The novel, “Les Fous de Benghazi,” came out six months before the death of the American ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, and included descriptions of the C.I.A. command center in Benghazi (a closely held secret at that time), which was to become central in the controversy over Stevens’s death.

Other de Villiers books have included even more striking auguries. In 1980, he wrote a novel in which militant Islamists murder the Egyptian president, Anwar Sadat, a year before the actual assassination took place...

Though he is almost unknown in the United States, de Villiers’s publishers estimate that the S.A.S. series has sold about 100 million copies worldwide, which would make it one of the top-selling series in history, on a par with Ian Fleming’s James Bond books. S.A.S. may be the longest-running fiction series ever written by a single author. The first book, “S.A.S. in Istanbul,” appeared in March 1965; de Villiers is now working on No. 197.
 
313boldwin
      ID: 4141214
      Thu, May 02, 2013, 17:17
State Department's Benghazi review panel under investigation
The IG's office is said by well-placed sources to be seeking to determine whether the Accountability Review Board, or ARB -- led by former U.N. Ambassador Thomas Pickering and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen -- failed to interview key witnesses who had asked to provide their accounts of the Benghazi attacks to the panel.

The IG's office notified the department of the "special review" on March 28, according to Doug Welty, the congressional and public affairs officer of the IG's office.

This disclosure marks a significant turn in the ongoing Benghazi case, as it calls into question the reliability of the blue-ribbon panel that then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton convened to review the entire matter. Until the report was concluded, she and all other senior Obama administration officials regularly refused to answer questions about what happened in Benghazi.

Since the ARB report was issued in December -- finding that "systemic failures and leadership and management deficiencies at senior levels" well below Clinton were to blame for the "inadequate" security at Benghazi -- Clinton and other top officials have routinely referred questioners to the conclusions of the board report. Now the methodology and final product of the ARB are themselves coming under the scrutiny of the department's own top auditor.
------
Joe diGenova, a former U.S. attorney, told host Geraldo Rivera that he is legally representing a career State Department officer whom the board failed to interview. DiGenova called the ARB a "cover-up."

DiGenova and his wife Victoria Toensing, a former Justice Department official who represents another State Department whistle-blower in the Benghazi case, said their respective clients will testify next Wednesday at a hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee being chaired by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

 
314Boldwin
      ID: 56439615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 17:25
Benghazi exploding right now.
 
315Tree
      ID: 56456615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 18:06
the internet - where a random blog that ranks 422,191 in the US on Alexa counts as a news source for the foolish.
 
316Boldwin
      ID: 56439615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 18:54
where a random blog quoting CBS News...

As predicted by congressmen last week who guaranteed huge new testimony. The silenced witnesses have finally been dug out from Obama and Hillary's dungeon.
 
317Tree
      ID: 56456615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 19:03
quoting CBS News...

yea, i was hoping you'd take that bait.

so now, after over a DECADE of you deriding CBS for your perceived bias of their reports, they're suddenly a good source for you??

your hypocrisy, if nothing else, is consistent.
 
318Boldwin
      ID: 56439615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 19:09
They are all covering it. I thot you'd be grateful I didn't link to the good one.
 
319Boldwin
      ID: 56439615
      Mon, May 06, 2013, 19:10
 
320Boldwin
      ID: 36417820
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 00:39
Of a piece.

The administration that does Benghazi, also does this.
 
321sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 00:59
You want to impeach Obama over Benghazai?

First, call for the execution of G W Bush for:
Jan 22, 2002 US Consulate at Kolkata, 5 dead
Jun 14, 2002, US Consulate at Karachi, 12 dead
Feb 28, 2003, US Embassy at Islamabad, 2 dead
Jun 30, 2004, US Embassy at Tashkent, 2 dead
Dec 6, 2004, US Compound at Saudi Arabia, 9 dead
Mar 2, 2006, US Consulate at Karachi (again), 2 dead
Sep 12, 2006, US Embassy at Syria, 4 dead
Mar 18, 2008, US Embassy at Yemen, 2 dead
Jul 9, 2008, US Consulate at Istanbul, 6 dead
Sep 17, 2008, US Embassy at Yemen (again), 16 dead
 
322Boldwin
      ID: 4243997
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 08:40
Did Bush tell the military to stand down and prevent rescue attempts? Did Bush put a filmmaker in jail to cover his a@@? Did his admin lie to congress, run a coverup and stonewall congress over them? Was Bush lying to prevent focus on his failed anti-al qaeda efforts in the run-up to a presidential election? Was he hiding the fact that his administration was running weapons to al qaeda affiliates at the time they were attacked?

Filmmaker Nakoula is still in jail. This aint yer father's America.
 
323Boldwin
      ID: 4243997
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 09:05
Powerline explains.
 
324Tree
      ID: 38322228
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 10:05
lol.

it's always funny to see someone who sucks at the teat of Reagan calling another administration on what he perceives as their lies.

then again, when you're sick, you blame the crimes of your hero on others.
 
325Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 15:22
Filmmaker Nakoula is still in jail.

That is where a career criminal belongs.
1. Failure to pay taxes, then failing to pay banks after declaring bankruptcy. Tax lien filed against him..
2. Production of methamphetamine. Pleaded guilty. One year in jail.
3. Violation of probation on #2. One year in jail.
4. Bank fraud. Pleaded No Contest. Two years in jail.
5. Violation of probation on #4, including lying to authorities and use of aliases, which has currently landed him in jail.

Just one more criminal/hero that Boldwin uses to puff his chest up. How many criminals are we up to now??
 
326Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Thu, May 09, 2013, 15:26
Feeding it will not sate it's appetite.
 
327Boldwin
      ID: 2145104
      Fri, May 10, 2013, 05:55
Would not be in jail today, but to cover Obama and Hillary's a@@. You know it and I know it.
 
328Boldwin
      ID: 2145104
      Fri, May 10, 2013, 06:38
I don't link to Joe Scarborough very often.

When you've lost Joe Scarborough...when the NYT is actually hedging their bets finally....

"It would be like after the Boston Bombing, the authorities went to Lord and Taylors, confiscated the surveillance tape and put the security guard guard in jail."
 
329Tree
      ID: 32459107
      Fri, May 10, 2013, 09:01
Would not be in jail today, but to cover Obama and Hillary's a@@. You know it and I know it.

and

Just one more criminal/hero that Boldwin uses to puff his chest up.

go hand in hand. people aren't criminals, unless they are moderate or to the left. people who believe like Baldwin does, aren't criminals, no matter what they might do.
 
330Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Fri, May 10, 2013, 10:20
Like I said yesterday...
 
331Boldwin
      ID: 174531013
      Fri, May 10, 2013, 14:54
Today WH rescheduled press conference two times, then called for an 'off the record' with just their favorite reporters. That's the version you want to believe. The sanitized and cooperative sychophant version.
 
332Boldwin
      ID: 49471117
      Sun, May 12, 2013, 16:00
From a Slate liberal: Why Benghazi and the IRS scandal guarantee gridlock for the rest of Obama's presidency
This week, I talked to Sen. Lamar Alexander, one of the senators the president invited to dinner last month. He testified to the president’s good faith on the budget. He thought President Obama was making an honest effort to achieve a grand bargain. He not only said that the president was sincere but that his chief of staff Denis McDonough was working with Republicans like no Obama envoy before him.

The substantive differences between the president and Republicans on the budget may be insurmountable, but now it seems like even if the pipe dream of a substantive budget agreement could be reached it wouldn’t be enough. Even if Republican senators can engage in a trust-building exercise with the White House, how can they convince their constituents that the president is offering them a fair deal on the budget? A poisoned well is now roiling. Any Republican who tries to convince their constituents about a deal will now likely get funny looks. Their constituents would wonder why they were engaged in negotiations with an administration that has told evolving stories about its response to the attack in Benghazi and that houses an IRS targeting conservative groups.

These twin controversies will spur more congressional hearings. That, in turn, means months more of disclosures, rabbit holes, and partisan attacks. For many liberals, this is the obvious point of the politically motivated Benghazi inquiries: to pin the president down and leave him ineffective. Perhaps it was always likely that something would blow the long-shot budget negotiations off course, but the continued effort by the president and a handful of Republican senators suggested at least a glimmer of opportunity. The light appears to have gone out.
Oh yeah, I didn't even bring up a thread on the IRS admitting they had deliberately targeted threatened and harrassed the Tea Party in advance of the last election. No point in giving you a free orgasm. There isn't one of you who would get disturbed over something you would have insisted Nixon be impeached over if he did it.

But we'll remember it. Believe it. Forever. And we don't really care if Lamar 'Rino' Alexander forgives Obama for it, cause he doesn't speak for us.
 
333Boldwin
      ID: 49471117
      Sun, May 12, 2013, 16:03
Dems dare not read.

Mark Stein, perhaps the greatest writer on the planet, explains Benghazi.
 
334Boldwin
      ID: 49471117
      Sun, May 12, 2013, 16:09
 
335Boldwin
      ID: 49471117
      Sun, May 12, 2013, 16:24
 
336Boldwin
      ID: 6438138
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 09:38
“But the most extraordinary aspect of the talking points editing process is what was never mentioned, at least as far I have seen — the supposedly infamous Mohammed video. Not a word of that. While emailing each other, these officials from the CIA, State, the Pentagon, and the White House seem to have completely ignored it.” - Roger Simon
 
337Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 11:23
Fazce The Nation 5.12.13:
Bob SCHIEFFER: We spoke yesterday to former Secretary of Defense bob gates at historic William and Mary College in Virginia we asked to give us his perspective on the Bengazi situation.

BOB GATES: Well, first of all I have to say I only know what I have read in the media. I haven't had any briefings or anything. And I-- I think the one where place where I might be able to say something useful-- has to do with some of the talk about-- the military response. And I listened to the testimony of-- both Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey. And-- and frankly had I been in the job at the time-- I think my decisions would have been just as theirs were. We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East. Despite all the turmoil that's going on, with planes on strip alert, troops ready to deploy at a moment's notice. And so getting somebody there in a timely way-- would have been very difficult, if not impossible. And frankly, I've heard "Well, why didn't you just fly a fighter jet over and try and scare 'em with the noise or something?" Well, given the number of surface to air missiles that have disappeared from Qaddafi's arsenals, I would not have approved sending an aircraft, a single aircraft-- over Benghazi under those circumstances. And-- and with respect to-- sending in special forces or a small group of people to try and provide help, based on everything I have read, people really didn't know what was going on in Benghazi contemporaneously. And to send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, I think, would have been very dangerous. And personally, I would not have approved that because we just don't it's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces. The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm's way. And there just wasn't time to do that.
 
338Boldwin
      ID: 6438138
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 15:31
Complete politically motivated lie. The special forces were ready to go. The plane was ready to go. The general in charge of Africa [who was relieved of command to keep him from saving the day] was ready to go. The special forces soldier in the interview in post #335 who was involved with CIF and there at the time it would seem, refutes every word of Gate's interview.
 
339Boldwin
      ID: 6438138
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 15:36
He is covering up the CIA-al qaeda complicity and would have sacrificed the entire Libya mission to cover up and go on arming al qaeda in Syria from Libya.
 
340Boldwin
      ID: 6438138
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 16:15


The military didn't think it was an unreasonable mission. THEY WERE FURIOUS WHEN TOLD TO STAND DOWN.

And that is really all you need to know about Benghazi to understand why it is an unresolved and unacceptable scandal.

That it was managed to further a president's election was bad enuff...

That it was managed to preserve Hillary's electablity was bad enuff...

That it was managed to keep the lid on public perception wrt al qaeda was bad enuff...

I'll even give you that the failure to adequately fund security is a bi-partisan scandal.

But to let our best die completely unsupported without the slightest attempt at a rescue is the nuclear 'heat of a thousand suns' scandal that will never die.
 
341Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 16:35
'heat of a thousand suns' scandal that will never die

...or you'll sure as hell turn it in to one.
 
342Tree
      ID: 143231613
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 17:09
Why exactly is it a scandal? That we didn't send our entire military into another country to save four people who had already been killed?

By all means, let's get a whole lot more killed! That makes sense.

The military didn't think it was an unreasonable mission

Of course not. I've got two marines on my kickball team - one who just got out, one on active duty.

They both say the same thing. They joined the military so they could fight wars. They WANT to be deployed.

 
343sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 20:28
340....one erroneous and self serving supposition after another, all presented as though they were fact.


There is no story here Baldwin, other than the rights refusal to drop something, that never should have been picked up in the first place.
 
344Boldwin
      ID: 594551321
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 22:56
1) They didn't know when the situation would be over. There is no basis for thinking that they didn't send rescue because it was over, or would have been over too soon for a response.

2) The soldier on the roof was laser targeting the mortar position. They do not light up the target unless there is a plane overhead ready to launch. Lighting up the target for no good reason can backfire. I heard this from the mouth of a CIF soldier. The 'stand down order' is unforgivable.
 
345Boldwin
      ID: 594551321
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 23:01
Listen to the CIF member starting @5 minutes in, to understand why the soldiers were livid at the stand down order.
 
346Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Mon, May 13, 2013, 23:25
Frm Def Sec Gates calls Benghazi critics "cartoonish."

"It's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces"

Indeed. By chickenshit armchair soldiers who have been using soldiers as political talking points for ten years now.
 
347Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 03:05
Darrell Issa's latest pretzel shape on Benghazi: Taking Obama to task for saying the attack was an "act of terror" rather than saying it was a "terrorist act."

This is what the Far Right has slobbered itself down to.

It doesn't get much better, long term. The House GOP is currently having a huge inter-party fight over whether to go all-in on Benghazi, or all-in on repealing Obamacare. And their dittoheads see nothing wrong with this.
 
348Boldwin
      ID: 594551321
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 17:01
 
349Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 19:13
Of the 41% who believe Benghazi to be the "biggest political scandal in American history" 39% didn't know that it was in Libya.

The sheep speak! Just not very well, or authoritatively.
 
350Boldwin
      ID: 174421417
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 20:02
I'm willing to bet they understand the concept of leaving someone behind to die without the slightest effort to save them.
 
351Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 20:09
Jake Tapper (no flaming liberal): White House email contradicts earlier leaks.
 
352Boldwin
      ID: 174421417
      Tue, May 14, 2013, 23:29
They sent it back 12 times until it was finally massaged into a 'hardened mis-impression'.
 
353sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 00:04
re 350....it is Hollywood, "leave no man behind", not reality. No, they dont lightly leave someone behind, but in some case, you know for an absolute fact as you go in, if the shit hits the fan, you likely arent going home.

Like PD said above, a By chickenshit armchair soldiers, talking tough, about scenarios that would leave them shitting their pants.
 
354Boldwin
      ID: 174421417
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 00:07
without the slightest effort to save them...actually insisting nothing be done to save them.
 
355Boldwin
      ID: 174421417
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 00:08
As in, 'We'll relieve you as head of Africom if you dare make a move to save them'.
 
356Tree
      ID: 564211423
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 00:28
I'm willing to bet they understand the concept of leaving someone behind to die without the slightest effort to save them.

and i'm willing to bet you don't understand that not only are most Americans unconcerned with this inventing scandal (not to mention how clueless you are about the phrase "leaving someone behind to die"), but they also don't trust you and your ilk.

Voters trust Hillary Clinton over Congressional Republicans on the issue of Benghazi by a 49/39 margin and her favorability rating shows no signs of decline at 52 percent versus 44 percent unfavorable. Congressional Republicans remain unpopular with a 36/57 favorability rating.
 
357sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 00:32
Sometimes Boldwin orders are given to NOT act, in order to avoid even more casualties. A concept you can not grasp, but I am not surprised. It's truth, and you have shown yourself to be unable to grasp it.

That you would pretend to be competent to question military orders, is in itself laughable. Seeing how you lived a life steadfastly refusing to serve.
 
358Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 13:54
Stevens twice turned down extra security.
 
359Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 14:04
Krauthammer: Stop calling everything a Watergate. Just present the facts.
 
360Boldwin
      ID: 294281510
      Wed, May 15, 2013, 14:15
"The embassy was told through back channels to not make direct requests for security"
 
361Boldwin
      ID: 494571610
      Thu, May 16, 2013, 12:25
BTW there are at least 25,000 docs they have but won't give us. - Representative Jason Chavetz via twitter
 
362Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, May 16, 2013, 20:23
GOP lying about quotes in leaks to the press.

Reflects a lack of confidence in their position, I'd say. But maybe, given their ability to implode, I should just let the GOP continue to speak for themselves.
 
363Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, May 16, 2013, 20:28
The irony should not be lost on those following this story by using their critical thinking skills: The GOP has been trying to take the Administration to task for, essentially, spinning the tragedy to reduce both personal responsibility by Clinton and to further political goals.

They do this by anonymously leaking fake quotes to try to make the Administration look bad.
 
364Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, May 16, 2013, 20:47
While the GOP is passing out pre-twisted panties for its sheeple, it is probably worth noting that Benghazi was not, in fact, an act of terror. Or terrorism.
 
365sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, May 16, 2013, 23:51
Bush appointee Robert Gates , "Some Benghazi Critics Have 'Cartoonish' View of Military Capability"
 
366Boldwin
      ID: 504361623
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 00:58
PD

No we cannot move on. An ambassador is not a combatant. Calling it a protest over a movie when his CIA and State Dept personnel on the scene were telling him something entirely different is the problem, not the semantics of the word terrorism.
 
367Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 07:52
The notion that the administration was somehow derelict in sticking with the story that the attack either started as or was provided cover by a protest about that film still escapes me.

The belief that the initial commotion outside the compound was another of the dozen or so protests about the film that were occurring all over the region at the time did not in anyway preclude the notion that there was also a coordinated attack - either by some among the protesters or from militants who used the protest for cover.

Rice was calling the attackers militants on TV that weekend. It's not like they denied there was an attack. So I still have no idea why I'm supposed to care that they were wrong about a protest.

Is the idea really that if there was no protest and only an attack, then Joe-Six-Pack in Charleston, WV was less likely to vote for Obama if there was a protest first and then an attack?

That's still the story you're sticking with?

That that narrative (no protest first, only attack) was so much better for them that they would lie to the public and risk this kind of blowback from an opposition party/media conglomerate that for the previous 5 years has unceasingly left no stone unturned no matter how crazy in their undeterred goal of disgracing and impeaching President Obama?
 
368boikin
      ID: 430211013
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 10:08
I have the solution to silliness, Obama needs to just come out and say hey look we changed the memo because we thought it would make us look bad, It was not an appropriate decision. As for military actions that was outside my control that was there call, ill take responsibility for their decisions but I can not control everything.

I think the reason this controversy continues to linger is because minor or not is that administration clearly tried to cover their tracks on decision they made instead of just coming out and saying you caught us. we thought we had plausible deniability but you know what we don't. Or at least come out and act through some underling under the bus.
 
369Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 10:39
we thought we had plausible deniability but you know what we don't

Plausible deniability of what?

That they believed the attack started as or was provided cover by a protest?

1. Why would they think a protest makes them look better? She said from that weekend they were attacked by militants.

And sticking with the initial narrative did not help them politically at all! What it did was provide the opposition with an opportunity to manufacture a scandal that dominated the news in October.

That did far more harm to the Obama campaign than any help that could possibly have come from convincing the country there was a protest.

2. Why is it so unbelievable that the administration believed there was a protest as Rice was appearing on TV? Yes we know that sources were telling them there was no protest. But there were also sources that had told them there was one. They chose to publicly stick with the initial narrative until they could definitively confirm it was wrong.

This is how every competent law enforcement agency handles messaging. Competing evidence emerges in an investigation of a chaotic incident. If they go public every time something comes up that challenges their current public assessment, they are going to be repeatedly changing the story which will make them look like buffoons.


I think the reason the controversy continues is because a significant portion of the opposition is overcome with such seething hate for the president of the United States that they just refuse to believe there isn't overwhelming evidence to warrant his removal from office, if not a traditional old-timey lynching.

And that there's money to be made and votes to be secured in catering to people who think that way.
 
370Boldwin
      ID: 504361623
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 10:49
The notion that the administration was somehow derelict in sticking with the story that the attack either started as or was provided cover by a protest about that film still escapes me.

There was no protest.

This was a lie from start to finish.

The belief that the initial commotion outside the compound was another of the dozen or so protests...

No one believed this, not the people on the scene, not Clinton, not Obama.

You were supposed to believe this in order to continue in the mistaken belief al qaeda was defeated and a non-issue in the world instead of the perpetrator of this attack.

That that narrative (no protest first, only attack) was so much better for them that they would lie to the public and risk this kind of blowback

You stated it backwards. It was advantageous to them that you believe there was a protest.

It is critical to Obama's success that you continue blind to the fact that al qaeda is alive and better than ever now that Obama is currently working with al qaeda all across the world to empower sharia compliant nation building.
 
371Boldwin
      ID: 504361623
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 10:52
Why is it so unbelievable that the administration believed there was a protest

Because no one familiar with the situation in Banghazi told them there was a protest there.
 
372Boldwin
      ID: 504361623
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 13:20
Bob Woodward [on MSNBC] explains...

 
373Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 15:13
Because no one familiar with the situation in Banghazi told them there was a protest there.

Of course there was intel that there was a protest! Libyan officials reported it that way. Injured security guards were interviewed afterward from their hospital beds saying that at first there was just a protest.

How stupid the administration would have to be to invent the protest part of the story out of thin air.

How stupid a rube would have to be to believe that!

Again, what purpose would that serve while also calling the attack an act of terror and the attackers militants? How in the world does a protest before or during (or evolving into) the attack make the president look better to voters?
 
374Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 15:28
My mistake - the guard interviewed in his bed said there was no protest. The story about the interior ministry official who reported a protest is in #96.

Also I recall reading in the official timeline of the evening that shouting was heard outside the compound some period of time (30 min? 2 hours, I don't know) before the initial attack began.
 
375Boldwin
      ID: 504491721
      Fri, May 17, 2013, 22:54
There is a world of difference between al qaeda attacking an embassy and killing an ambassador and a protest that gets out of hand.

They had a warning from the Brits about a planned attack. Anyone reading the cables knew there was no protest. Hicks was constantly updating them, and his jaw dropped when he heard the administration describing an entirely different event than the one he had been updating them about.
 
376sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Sun, May 19, 2013, 23:10
Benghazai...the latest in a line, of GOP fabricated scandals. They have so much evidence to support their contentions, they had to fraudulently edit emails in order to paint the picture they needed.

*yawn* next.....
 
377Boldwin
      ID: 2446204
      Mon, May 20, 2013, 05:18
Since you are no longer paying attention, we'll be happy to leave you behind.
 
378Boldwin
      ID: 2446204
      Mon, May 20, 2013, 06:29
The most likely suspect for organizer of the Benghazi attack is Libyan terror leader Abu Sufian bin Qumu.

Abu Sufian bin Qumu was sprung from Gitmo by White House visitor Hisham Y. Altalib.

Hisham Y. Altalib's other activities include working with Al Taqwa Bank laundering money for a plethora of violent Muslim terrorist groups and various initiatives to conquer America through Islamic propagandizing.

Naturally the administration actions make no sense from a traditional pro-American POV.
 
379Boldwin
      ID: 414282020
      Mon, May 20, 2013, 22:20
According to a source no one here will buy, but at least consider this a heads up...

"Retired 4 Star Admiral James Lyons reveals the entire plot that led to the deaths of Americans in Libya that could have been prevented"

He calls it a botched October Surprise that went wrong when forces ordered to stand down went to the rescue.

Supposedly Obama was going to rescue - ransom the ambassador for the Blind Sheik. This would give Obama the excuse to do what he wanted to do anyway with the Blind Sheik and come out smelling like a rose delivering the ambassador from the clutches...just in time for the election.

Enraged al qaeda did not take kindly to having the cake-walk of a plot turn into a shooting gallery on them.
 
380Boldwin
      ID: 4429213
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 04:39
There is a CIA source claiming there is a shoe about to drop that the WH is freaking out about and holding their breath over. That Lyon stuff looks pretty damaging, but the whispers were more along the lines of the media spying being far far worse than so far revealed. The media which they dare not set on permanent outrage mode.
 
381Boldwin
      ID: 4429213
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 04:53
World class spin. This piece from CBS tries to reduce the damaging actions to a state department spokesman who used to work for Dick Cheney! It's not even Bush's fault, it's indirectly Dick Cheney's fault!

Hilarious. I put it down to an effort to bamboozle liberals into dismissing the whole thing cause they can't possibly believe anyone else would buy this. At least keep your own people pacified while you dodge the steely-eyed people.
 
382Boldwin
      ID: 4429213
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 06:42
The administration's 'doctored emails defense'.

All this is based on the way the emails were first released. They were revealed to congressmen who were not allowed to make copies but could only take notes.

In one place the notetaker indicated this part was refering to the State Dept which it clearly was. The State Dept was clearly the party most actively interested in A@@covering. The email did not explicitly state this however at that point.

Then the reporters who got the notes, several people's notes were used by various reporters, included the parenthetical phrase [State Dept] as if it had been explicitly part of the email.

That in a nutshell is the defense. Reporters and the GOP had to doctor the emails.

But no, the admin deliberately hobbled the first release of the emails and so the release was imperfect.
n other words, the summary would have been fairly close if the commas had been removed and replaced with brackets: “We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities [including those of the State Department] and we don’t want to undermine the FBI investigation.”

It has long been part of the Washington game for officials to discredit a news story by playing up errors in a relatively small part of it. Pfeiffer gives the impression that GOP operatives deliberately tried to “smear the president” with false, doctored e-mails.

But the reporters involved have indicated they were told by their sources that these were summaries, taken from notes of e-mails that could not be kept. The fact that slightly different versions of the e-mails were reported by different journalists suggests there were different note-takers as well.

Indeed, Republicans would have been foolish to seriously doctor e-mails that the White House at any moment could have released (and eventually did).
There is a clever trick to remember the rest of your political researcher career.

An admin without an ace to play can invent one by deliberately introducing static into the stream of information and then waving their arms over their own created confusion they themselves created.

All 'the most transparent administration in history' had to do was actually be transparent and release the emails for copying. There was no media malfeasance or political agenda at work in this instance.
 
383Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 09:42
So Boldwin, refresh my memory here - what exactly is the charge in benghazi?
Is it that the obama administration had a hand in the riots?

Is it that they willfully and deliberately did nothing about the riots, expecting this to happen?

or did they maybe just have imperfect information and didn't make the best decision?

I'll be honest, right now my concern is not with their response after it all went down. My concern is not with emails. Not with labels put on it after the fact. Right now my concern is with the Benghazi situation itself. What exactly transpired that day, involving the Obama administration, to make all the other stuff matter (or even need to be looked at)?
 
384Mith
      ID: 4310402110
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 12:11
A pretty good clue it's long past time to give it up already.
 
385Biliruben
      ID: 358252515
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 12:37
Heh. This is what I mean by marginalizing the nut jobs. If you give them enough rope, they do it to themselves.

Hopefully we can start to govern again; sooner rather than later.
 
386Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 14:38
This is why the GOP can't have nice things.

The piece is more wide-ranging than Benghazi, but it seems pretty right-on when it comes to Benghazi, particularly this line:

"Seriously, conservatives need to wake up and realize that Benghazi just isn’t the scandal they so desperately want it to be."
 
387Boldwin
      ID: 164192113
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 16:45
Khahan

1) The ambassador was arming al qaeda. The public would be somewhat non-plussed to learn that the USA was in the business of turning al qaeda into a nation changing world power.

2) Clinton cut out the State Department's own counter-terrorism bureau from the loop in this situation, kept them in the dark. Did not seek their counsel.

3) They told ready willing and able resources to stand down and do nothing as a terrorist attack was ongoing for half a day.

4) While they watched.
 
388Boldwin
      ID: 164192113
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 16:52
Khahan

It's like the Bush administration's response to islamic terrorism in reverse.

Imagine if Bush had the goal of putting the taliban in power in Afghanistan and was arming them. Further imagine that he was aware of the 9/11 plot as it unfolded and he deliberately cut out the intelligence services and told the military to stand down.
 
389Boldwin
      ID: 164192113
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 16:58
While he watched with his drone.
 
390Tree
      ID: 59451219
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 17:35
1) The ambassador was arming al qaeda. The public would be somewhat non-plussed to learn that the USA was in the business of turning al qaeda into a nation changing world power.

like you, in regards to the GIANT role Reagan played in that exact issue?
 
391Boldwin
      ID: 164192113
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 19:26
Those people who were able to foresee al qaeda's future plans would indeed have some answering to do.
 
392Tree
      ID: 564211423
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 19:55
the point here is how quickly you are to blame those you are opposed to politically, and how equally quickly you are deflect similar criticism of those you worship.
 
393Boldwin
      ID: 164192113
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 20:27
I do not deflect criticism from the CFR that I don't doubt has had this whole thing scripted since way before Reagan.

Way back then, 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' was a perfectly reasonable suggestion, to anyone who wasn't an expert in Muslim end-time theology at the time. Anyone who was well aware of that at the time, and recommended embracing al qaeda should not be guiding anyone then or now.
 
394Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 20:45
McCain/Feingold?
 
395sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Tue, May 21, 2013, 22:34
"Muslim end time theology".

May I suggest, you listen less to alarmists, open your mind (difficult as it may be), and read both the Koran AND the Bible. Afterwards, you tell me which is the more violent and vicious.
 
396Boldwin
      ID: 14427221
      Wed, May 22, 2013, 02:33
1) I have

2) Easy. The one that says 'Put away your sword, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword' is peaceful and the one that says 'Kill the infidel wherever you may find him' is the vicious one. Even if you personally did not follow that advice.

3) How dare you call yourself a christian while defaming Christianity at every opportunity. You are insulting God and the intelligence of your listeners.
 
397Tree
      ID: 564211423
      Wed, May 22, 2013, 10:38
i believe point 3 in 396 above was self-reflective? are you talking to yourself again Baldwin?

you don't necessarily defame Christianity in your words, but you sure do in your actions and your beliefs.
 
398Boldwin
      ID: 384162217
      Thu, May 23, 2013, 07:03
Five of the Benghazi terrorists and their whereabouts are known and Obama won't have them arrested.
 
399Mith
      ID: 412561115
      Thu, May 23, 2013, 08:27
He hasn't read the Koran. He's read Koran passages that he has been directed to by people with a vested interest in convincing others to hate and distrust Muslims.

Just like he hasn't read the AP article about the identified Benghazi suspects that the link in #398 describes. He simply read (and linked, gee thanks) an item that tells you what some of the information in the AP article means - from the perspective of someone with a vested interest in convincing others to hate and distrust the president of the United States.

Of course he has all his facts straight. Why wouldn't he?

Did you know Trayvon Martin was 2/3 of the way to some fine a@@ drank when he snuck up on and attacked George Zimmerman?
 
400Tree
      ID: 564211423
      Thu, May 23, 2013, 10:11
Did you know Trayvon Martin was 2/3 of the way to some fine a@@ drank when he snuck up on and attacked George Zimmerman?

he was just a chemistry degree away. or at least a bottle of 'tussin...tussin...tussin...
 
401Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, May 28, 2013, 21:11
Was Obama high on coke during the Benghazi attack?

Examiner briefly posts, then pulls, right wing nutter theory.
 
402Mith
      ID: 29182720
      Wed, May 29, 2013, 07:15
From the Unskewed Polls guy that Republicans latched onto last fall as the savior who had figured out why all the polls (that turned out to be exactly right) were biased and posted "fixed" versions of them that just happened to show that Romney would win in a landslide. Haha I love that guy!
 
403Boldwin
      ID: 32532618
      Thu, Jun 06, 2013, 23:33
On Wednesday, military veterans and retired special operations officers demanded, in an open letter released by OPSEC, that former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen be deposed by Congress. The reason they are making the demand is to find out why U.S. forces were not ordered to rescue the four American men who were under attack and died in Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012.
-“Why does your report include no mention whatsoever of requests for military assistance made by the U.S. Deputy Chief of Mission in Libya which he has testified he made and which were denied?”

-“Your report states that you found “no evidence of…denial of support from Washington or the combatant commands.” That finding is in direct conflict with sworn testimony by DCM Hicks that a Special Operations team was denied permission to fly to Benghazi to assist in the response to the attack. Why did your report fail to account for that incident?

-“The report finds that any military response could not have reached Benghazi in time to save lives but that was not possible to know at the time of the attack when requests for assistance – requests not included in your report – were denied. Why do you believe those requests should have been denied when Americans were still under armed attack?”
 
404Boldwin
      ID: 25111019
      Mon, Jun 10, 2013, 20:41
Scandal of the week defense.
Benghazi, however, is the one scandal he cannot blame on anyone other than himself. Barack Obama was Commander in Chief during the Benghazi attack. It was he alone who could have issued the orders for our special forces to stand down and let our ambassador and three other Americans be slaughtered.
 
405Mith
      ID: 231150292
      Sun, Dec 29, 2013, 03:51
The right's remaining talking points on Bengazi collapse
Months of investigation by The New York Times, centered on extensive interviews with Libyans in Benghazi who had direct knowledge of the attack there and its context, turned up no evidence that Al Qaeda or other international terrorist groups had any role in the assault. The attack was led, instead, by fighters who had benefited directly from NATO’s extensive air power and logistics support during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi. And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam.


Fifteen months after Mr. Stevens’s death, the question of responsibility remains a searing issue in Washington, framed by two contradictory story lines.

One has it that the video, which was posted on YouTube, inspired spontaneous street protests that got out of hand. This version, based on early intelligence reports, was initially offered publicly by Susan E. Rice, who is now Mr. Obama’s national security adviser.

The other, favored by Republicans, holds that Mr. Stevens died in a carefully planned assault by Al Qaeda to mark the anniversary of its strike on the United States 11 years before. Republicans have accused the Obama administration of covering up evidence of Al Qaeda’s role to avoid undermining the president’s claim that the group has been decimated, in part because of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

The investigation by The Times shows that the reality in Benghazi was different, and murkier, than either of those story lines suggests. Benghazi was not infiltrated by Al Qaeda, but nonetheless contained grave local threats to American interests. The attack does not appear to have been meticulously planned, but neither was it spontaneous or without warning signs.

Mr. Abu Khattala had become well known in Benghazi for his role in the killing of a rebel general, and then for declaring that his fellow Islamists were insufficiently committed to theocracy. He made no secret of his readiness to use violence against Western interests. One of his allies, the leader of Benghazi’s most overtly anti-Western militia, Ansar al-Shariah, boasted a few months before the attack that his fighters could “flatten” the American Mission. Surveillance of the American compound appears to have been underway at least 12 hours before the assault started.

The violence, though, also had spontaneous elements. Anger at the video motivated the initial attack. Dozens of people joined in, some of them provoked by the video and others responding to fast-spreading false rumors that guards inside the American compound had shot Libyan protesters. Looters and arsonists, without any sign of a plan, were the ones who ravaged the compound after the initial attack, according to more than a dozen Libyan witnesses as well as many American officials who have viewed the footage from security cameras.
 
406Boldwin
      ID: 2246117
      Fri, May 02, 2014, 07:05
Your tax dollars at work. Since Obama decided to back al qeada in Syria we should see what we are getting for our money.
 
407Boldwin
      ID: 585281717
      Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 00:33
You heard it here first. I have not read this take anywhere.

What is actually going on with the 'capture of the Benghazi mastermind.'

1) Why now? They've known about him all along. The terrorists called him on State Dept cellphones they picked up at the scene of the crime.

This is 'wag the dog'. This is Clinton's bombing of the pill factory to distract from Monica, redux for Iraq/Benghazi hearings/IRS hearings, etc, redone with an extra twist.

2) Now that Obama's managed to establish a precedent of just turning key terrorists free without getting impeached and without obeying the law...

...they have just offered him the deal to testify falsely to get Hillary off the hook on the phony 'slanderous video was the cause' and they'll set him free before long. With Hillary's deck clean for the election.
 
408Perm Dude
      ID: 294531914
      Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 09:24
This just in: "Obama cures cancer! FOX questions the fact that he used a TelePrompter in making announcement..."
 
409Boldwin
      ID: 395291810
      Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 12:01
I predict he is free before the video maker.
 
410Boldwin
      ID: 395291810
      Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 12:02
They'll prolly trade him for the three Israeli kids just kidnapped or something like that.
 
411Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Wed, Jun 18, 2014, 19:31
410 is about as clueless as it gets, and shows a dramatic ignorance for..well...a lot of things.

for starters, Hamas would unlikely accept a deal like that. it took 1,027 freed terrorist to get Gilad Shalit released.

it also shows a woeful misunderstanding about prisoner exchanges through out history, including exchanges the United States did with North Korea and Nazi Germany.
 
412sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 02:21
There was no order to "stand down"

Others, such as Issa and Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah, have said a stand down order was given.

"We had proximity, we had capability, we had four individuals in Libya armed, ready to go, dressed, about to get into the car to go in the airport to go help their fellow countrymen who were dying and being killed and under attack in Benghazi, and they were told to stand down," Chaffetz said more than a year ago. "That's as sickening and depressing and disgusting as anything I have seen. That is not the American way."

Beyond questions of timing, the testimony of Rear Adm. Brian Losey, who was then Special Operations commander for Africa, also challenged the idea the team had the capacity to bolster security in Benghazi.

Losey said there was "never an order to stand down." His instruction to the team "was to remain in place and continue to provide security in Tripoli because of the uncertain environment." Earlier on Sept. 11, the U.S. Embassy in Cairo had been breached as well.


Doesnt fit well with the GOP narrative, but then over the past dozen or so years, not very much has.
 
413Boldwin
      ID: 216341110
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 11:44
There were plenty of assets ready and plenty of marines with a rescue 'leave no one behind ethos' eager to help and we notice they did not get deployed.

We know that General Ham was retired for his disagreement with Benghazi inaction. It is believed that a high level Navy Officer [an admiral?] was relieved over the same issue.

Also we know the special forces on the scene in Benghazi were ordered to stand down and not go rescue the ambassador.

If your accertion is that no one was ordered to stand down, where were their actions, then?
 
414sarge33rd
      ID: 86541113
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 14:54
Also we know the special forces on the scene in Benghazi were ordered to stand down and not go rescue the ambassador.

If your accertion is that no one was ordered to stand down, where were their actions, then?


To address your first line first;

no, they were not ordered to stand down. There was no such order issued.

As for your second line. Here, you prove beyond any doubt, how little you know about military ops. Assets must be ordered into action, They do not go into action, absent an order to do so. There was no such order, as is explained in the link I provided above.
 
415Boldwin
      ID: 216341110
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 18:17
I notice you only mentioned the officers who didn't put their jobs on the line disagreeing with the stand down order.
 
416Boldwin
      ID: 216341110
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 18:19
Obama has pruned the armed forces leadership of principled people and filled their slots with Shinseki's.
 
417sarge33rd
      ID: 86541113
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 19:46
Please regale us Boldwin, with your extensive resume which grants you so much insight into the operations of the US Military...

go ahead, you have the floor;
 
418Boldwin
      ID: 216341110
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 23:47
It's a simple job even you can handle. Google Obama purges military.
 
419sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Fri, Jul 11, 2014, 23:53
so, RWNJ bolgs are your source? Infowars, breitbart, theblaze...THOSE are the training grounds for your extensive military expertise.

Pardon me, while I laugh you off the planet.
 
420Boldwin
      ID: 216341110
      Sat, Jul 12, 2014, 00:07
189,000 results

Keep researching.
 
421Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Sat, Jul 12, 2014, 12:36
Google Obama purges military.

189,000 results


Google jehovah's witnesses touch kids

1,900,000 results.

are you implying that with many results, the truth can actually be found?

good to know.
 
422sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 20:10
After a 2 year investigation, House Panel concludes there waas NO Administration wrong doing....

The panel voted Thursday to declassify the report, the result of two years of investigation by the committee. U.S. intelligence agencies will have to approve making the report public.

Thompson said the report "confirms that no one was deliberately misled, no military assets were withheld and no stand-down order (to U.S. forces) was given."

That conflicts with accusations of administration wrongdoing voiced by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista (San Diego County), whose House Government Oversight and Reform Committee has held hearings on the Benghazi attack.

Stevens, who grew up in Piedmont, and the other Americans died when Libyans attacked the consulate on Sept. 11, 2012. Among the Intelligence Committee's findings, according to Thompson:

-- Intelligence agencies were "warned about an increased threat environment, but did not have specific tactical warning of an attack before it happened."

-- "A mixed group of individuals, including those associated with al Qaeda, (Moammar) Khadafy loyalists and other Libyan militias, participated in the attack."

-- "There was no 'stand-down order' given to American personnel attempting to offer assistance that evening, no illegal activity or illegal arms transfers occurring by U.S. personnel in Benghazi, and no American was left behind."


I know B, you were SO rooting for America to have failed........
 
423Perm Dude
      ID: 586411123
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 20:56
The report is clearly only being released to distract from Benghazi.
 
424Perm Dude
      ID: 586411123
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 21:10
btw, here's a link to the same article without that insanely big head of Ambassador Stevens.
 
425sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 21:25
lol that is annoying huh?
 
426Mith
      ID: 371172617
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 10:40
This is a time for introspection for anyone who spent the past two years hoping the president gets nailed for some scandal or other related to Benghazi.

They should be honestly asking themselves if they are relieved or disappointed to learn that in all that jumble of information, there was never anything of substance.

It's a golden opportunity to determine which is greater: their sense of earnest patriotism or their blind hate for the political opposition.
 
427sarge33rd
      ID: 390471112
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 10:57
brilliantly stated Mith.