Forum: pol
Page 3680
Subject: The Gloves Come Off


  Posted by: Boldwin - [12107713] Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 05:04

Now that he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected...

[Putin waiting patiently in the wings]
 
1Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 05:06
Less than a day after Obama’s election, the US backed a UN treaty to regulate arms.
Obama delayed the talks during election season.
Buy and stash them now or never, folks.
 
2Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 05:19
Businesses held their breath hoping for a reprieve...which hasn't come...

[alternate title] Is that victory confetti? Oops, no it's pink slips....
Boeing’s defense division ‘unexpectedly’ announces layoffs, facility closings on day after election

----

Stocks took a sharp nosedive in a post-election selloff Wednesday, with the Dow logging its biggest decline in nearly a year, prompted by concerns over the looming "fiscal cliff" and amid renewed worries over Europe's weak economy. [CNBC's ridiculous take on the cause - B]
 
3Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 05:28
Country cracks in half.

Sorta...



...actually it takes aaaaaall that red to pay for those tiny greedy blue blobs.
 
4Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 05:39
Victoria Jackson assures HuffPo that she was quoted accurately...'Yes, I said America has died.'
Huff Po writes, “Victoria Jackson hasn’t exactly been a beacon of rational political analysis, but her post-election meltdown on Twitter may take the cake. After Barack Obama was declared the winner, the former “SNL” castmember proclaimed that America had “died.” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/victoria-jackson-obama-election-crying-america-died_n_2088257.html)

It has died! “America” is dead. That is very rational political analysis. It’s called “truth.” And, Huff Po, as Jack Nicholson put it, “…you can’t handle the truth.”

Pamela Gellar said, “Truth is the new hate speech.”

“America” was The Constitution, The Bible, the Ten Commandments, the traditional family unit, and free enterprise. That is dead now. It has been replaced with a Dictator, his special friends (oligarchy), secular humanism, free sex, and redistribution (Marxism). “America” is gone.

Why did America die? Because we kicked God out. Read Leviticus 26.

The Democrats voted God out of their platform, and then, they voted in Obama…again…knowing that our economy is worse since he was elected, our debt is much higher, our unemployment much worse; knowing that Obama is a liar, a racist, a communist, and not a natural born citizen; knowing that he is guilty of treason, he has aided our enemies, dissed our allies, crippled our energy – coal, gas and oil industries; and that he has over-regulated small business out of business; and, that he is endorsed by dictators and communists.

Obama was very successful in his first four years. He accomplished his goal of “fundamentally transforming America” from freedom to tyranny. He did have help, besides the cheating, bribing and voter fraud. He had millions of morons, the educational system, the media, and three generations worth of Communists. Most interesting is the fact that Obama’s childhood mentor Frank Marshall Davis and Obama’s grandparents and David Axelrod’s and Valerie Jarrett’s grandparents and her father-in-law were all members of The Communist Party USA. (“The Communist” by Paul Kengor)

The God Haters now outweigh the God Lovers. And, there are more Takers than Makers. Evil won the election.

My friend B was a poll volunteer in the South. She witnessed three illegals trying to vote, teenagers with fake Driver’s Licenses, and a lot of “provisional votes.” She said 90% had wrong addresses, and several had the wrong birthday. Many didn’t know they had to ‘register’ first. The NAACP showed up. Many of the poll volunteers were wearing Obama stuff.

Founding Father John Adams said, “[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

Freedom of Religion? Dead. Obamacare did that. Freedom of Speech? O’s Benghazi proved that. Freedom to Bear Arms. That’s next. All my friends are stocked up on guns and ammo. I asked an AZ Tea Party friend what he’s gonna do when this government comes to his home to take his gun away. He said, “Call my posse.” We are prepared. We are the 50%.

Huff Po, I have another tweet you can quote. Now, that I’ve had a night to think about this, I came up with this;

“America’s dead, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” Most of that sentence is a Bible verse, so I guess I kind of plagiarized – it’s from the Holy Bible. (Hebrews 13:8)

This “New America” has a majority of people who would trade freedom for a free phone, a job for a joint, and a baby for sluttiness.

I think the red states should secede and create our own country called Original America. Obama can name his dictatorship of blue states, “Obamutopia.” The rules of Original America are; 1) If anyone from “Obamutopia” crosses our border without an invitation they are shot. 2) No welfare system. Everyone takes care of their own traditional family, and the church takes care of widows and orphans. 3) The Ten Commandments and Prayer are in our public school system and the Bible is a required course. 4) You can become a citizen if you learn English, take a test, get a job, and pledge allegiance.

I see four more years of this spiritual battle between me and the Huff Po. We will only agree when, as I said to Howard Stern, “you become a born again Christian.” Then, Huff Po, you will be healed of your spiritual blindness. You will see simple things clearly; things like spending more money can’t get you out of debt; things like government over-regulation makes less jobs, not more jobs; things like socialism makes more people poor and free enterprise makes more people rich; logical things like that.
 
5Pancho Villa in GJ
      ID: 1010151016
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 08:23
Frank Marshall Davis was never Obama's mentor, at least that Boldwin, Kengor, or anyone else has ever shown.
 
6DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 09:47
"...actually it takes aaaaaall that red to pay for those tiny greedy blue blobs."

The red parts take more money than they put out, and the blue ones take less money than they put out.

Other than the fact that you are completely lying about known facts when you say insanely stupid stuff like this (and yes, it is willful LYING at this point, since this has been pointed out to you before, it's not even discussable).

Sorry your madrassa won't let you read or do basic math, and has brainwashed you to lie on their behalf. I think at this point the only reliable option is a drone strike.
 
7Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 09:52
here's another twitter rant from Victoria Jackson:

"Thanks a lot Christians, for not showing up. You disgust me."

lovely sentiment there.
 
8Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 09:53
re: post 3 -

..actually it takes aaaaaall that red to pay for those tiny greedy blue blobs.

this is another lie.

of the states that receive more welfare than they contribute, 85 percent are red states.

Although i hate the term, "Red State Socialism" is the real deal, and the fact of the matter is that, as a whole, red states get a lot more than they give.
 
9Razor
      ID: 177192916
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 10:01
The more you contribute to blog posts, I mean, threads like these, the worse they will be.
 
10Pancho Villa in GJ
      ID: 1010151016
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 10:17
How can it get any worse than being subjected to the rantings of Victoria Jackson and her "America is dead" philosophy?
 
11DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 10:31
Re: #6 -- I fully expect this to be only comprehended by 99% of the board's population and ignored by the other 1%, but anyway:

link

This stuff ain't hard, yo. It's the red states, by and large, stealing the blue states money so they can prevent people from having sex and educating themselves.
 
12Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 11:16
The red parts take more money than they put out, and the blue ones take less money than they put out.

I'm sorry you did not understand my point. When I say that, included among those greedy blue blobs are hundreds of failed social experiments in the red states as well, known as corrupt big city democratic machines.
 
14Great One
      ID: 2431114
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 12:32
I like how the TenCommandments/Prayer and Bible is a required course... but in the same breath says that freedom of religion is dead. So if I am a Buddhist, freedom of religion = me being forced to read the Bible?
 
15Tree
      ID: 101027811
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 13:00
I'm sorry you did not understand my point. When I say that, included among those greedy blue blobs are hundreds of failed social experiments in the red states as well, known as corrupt big city democratic machines.

what failed social experiments are those?
 
16sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 13:07
the ones he called "failed social experiments". Geeeeez Tree...what do you want? Actual citations of real historic events or something?
 
17biliruben
      ID: 21841115
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 13:24
"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

"Never mock the mentally unstable after they get trounced in election."

I have serious concerns that the risk of domestic terrorism in our country just jumped 8-fold.
 
18Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 20:38
jonlovitz - I no of man who laid off 108 Employees the day after election cuz of O'care
 
19Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 20:40
:Breaking:Mountain News confirms 90 layoffs at TECO Coal. Locations, more info. expected to be announced tomorrow
 
20Boldwin
      ID: 12107713
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 20:45
IN PAST 48 HRS, FOLLOWING COs ANNOUNCED LAYOFFS: Westinghouse, Research in Motion, Boeing, US Cellular, Commerzbank, Iberia, ING, Ericsson, Bristol-Myers, corning, Boston Scientific, Abbott Labs, St. Jude, Caterpillar, CVPH Medical Center, Lightyear Haq, Hawker Beechcraft—closing facilites, laying off more than 400 employees in Arkansas, Pepsi looking to layoff 4,000 workers, Bristol-Myers To Cut Nearly 500 Jobs, Research in Motion lays off workers at US HQ in TX, Groupon lays off 80 sales employees, Energizer Holdings to lay off 1,500, close 3 plants, Energizer to cut more than 10 percent of workforce...

Welcome to the worker's paradise.
 
21sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 21:00
cripes B....is this gonna be your new M.O.? Pretend like planned layoffs are suddenly "news"?
 
22Tree
      ID: 41011820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 21:16
Mountain News confirms 90 layoffs at TECO Coal

since you have no interest in being honest, either in what you post or what you imply, here's the rest of that report: (Director of Personnel Paul) Matney said that the layoffs are at several locations and are the result of the economic conditions of the coal market.

and here's some truth about the Groupon layoffs.

"Groupon announced several months ago it would be using technology to increase productivity through automation," read a statement by a company spokesperson. "This week we reduced the sales team by approximately 80 members as part of that effort. We will always aim to optimize business operations wherever opportunities are identified."

i am sure with most of your examples above, we would find these layoffs have little to do with your implication.

unfortunately, you're not interested in the truth. you've loudly proclaimed on these boards previously that lying is an acceptable method of attacking one's political enemy, and you definitely practice what you preach.
 
23Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 21:22
The GOP: Now actively rooting for American failures.
 
24DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 21:29
Your jerb creators! at work
 
25Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 22:22
The GOP: Now actively rooting for American failures.


BZZZZT...It's Bush's fault...keep yer Dem meme's straight.
 
26sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 22:41
no B,,the RECESSION was Bushs fault. Keep your facts straight.
 
27Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 22:54
Deflection seems to be a fine art, now.

Boldwin: I was specifically referring to your post. Or are you now saying that the layoffs had nothing to do with the election, as you wanted to imply earlier?
 
28Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 22:55
"At client today, major health payor, all the talk is about influx of notifications from groups of intent to drop coverage."
 
29Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 22:57
I'm on vacation. Expect minimal posting [considering my usual rate] and rare responses.

You guys pull the load now. You broke it. You bought it. It's all yours.
 
30Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:01
"My Dad is closing his business for good tomorrow. When you already pay 70% in taxes you can't see paying MORE" - Kelly Clinger [that's her twitter handle anyway]
 
31Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:03
"My mom is a nurse & today her workplace told most of the cleaning aids they will be laid off."
 
32Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:04
Too bad people have been convinced of lies by a media more intent on making money off them then in conveying hard truths.

I'm sure Ms Clinger can make some money renting out her name to an up-and-coming porn star, however.
 
33sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:11
how about B, for the sake of brevity, you compile your list of twitter fed fear mongering and post them say, once every 4 or 5 hours as a single post? Just to be different from your usual self.
 
34Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:11
“Well unfortunately, and most of my employees are Hispanic — I’m not gonna go into what kind of company I have, but I have mostly Hispanic employees — well unfortunately we know what happened and I can’t wait around anymore, I have to be proactive,” the businessman continued. ”I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. Elections do have consequences, but so do choices. A choice you make every day has consequences and you know what, I’ve always put my employees first, but unfortunately today I have to put me and my family first, and you watch what’s gonna happen. I’m just one guy with 114 employees — well was 114 employees — watch what happens in the next six months. The Dow alone lost 314 points today. There’s a tsunami coming and if you didn’t think this election had consequences, just wait.” - interview on Las Vegas radio station/Kevin Wall
Talk about voting against your own economic interests...

If you have a job today, chances are you'll have a part-time no benefit/no insurance job tomorrow, if yer lucky.
 
35sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:18
golly,maybe we Dems should have let Nixon have his way, when he wanted to mandate EMPLOYER PAID health insurance. How would business react to it, had a Republican done it? Oh wait, we KNOW the answer to that. When the GOP tried to pass the Heritage Foundation program it was 'great'. When a Dem did pass it, it was "unconstitutional".
 
36Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Thu, Nov 08, 2012, 23:48
Bring it. In 4 years those "businessmen" are going to look silly. Dumping employees just as the markets are coming back just shows that businessmen are just as stupid as anyone else.
 
37Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 01:45
It'll be interesting to see how the next few employment reports mesh with the chicken little anecdotes.
 
38Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 01:51
Higher resolution picture of greedy blue blobs:

 
39sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 01:55
I've herd of dealerships,now planning to place EVERYONE under "part time" status to avoid health care. I dont see it working, since generally, anything 32 hrs or more is seen as full time, and in a car dealership, it isnt hard to hit 35 hrs for the week on Wed. Of course, some 86% of dealerships are owned by people identifying as Republican (proved when there were complaints of GM dealership closings having targeted Republicans), so it doesnt surprise me that some of those are going to react in a mean spirited knee-jerk fashion.
 
40nerveclinic
      ID: 569232410
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 01:56


"actually it takes aaaaaall that red to pay for those tiny greedy blue blobs."

Per Capita Income

Rank State
1 Maryland $70,004 Blue State
2 Alaska $67,825 Red State
3 New Je $67,458 Blue
4 Conn $65,753 Blue
DC $63,124 Blue (Not a State but...)
5 Mass $62,859 Blue
6 NH $62,647 Blue
7 Virginia $61,882 Blue
8 Hawaii $61,821 Blue
9 Delaware $58,814 Blue
10 Calif $57,287 Blue


So, do you ever actually fact check or do you just say what you hope to be true?

Per Capita Income by State





 
41Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 01:57
I'm not sure what you mean by "greedy" but in point of fact the red states are typically areas which are subsidized by the blue ones. So if you mean "sucks at the teat of bond-generated federal monies" then you've got it backwards.

This should not be a surprise. Things like freeways, airports, train stations, and so forth could simply not exist in lower-populated areas without the tax money coming from higher population areas to build them. Regional airports and freeways are particularly good examples of such redistribution.
 
42sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 02:02
wiki

tarting in 1982, dividends from the fund's annual growth have been paid out each year to eligible Alaskans, ranging from an initial $1,000.00 in 1982 (equal to three years' payout, as the distribution of payments was held up in a lawsuit over the distribution scheme) to $3,269.00 in 2008 (which included a one-time $1,200.00 "Resource Rebate").

So the one Red state on that list, the residents benefit from a socialist idea(communist in that it is communal?), of shared revenue amounting to approx 5% of the per capita income. Take that out, and Alaska drops down to 5th place, instead of 2nd.
 
43sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 02:09
Maps of the 2012 US presidential election results

Site for the map B selected above. Beneath it, is that same map at the county level, but with each county adjusted in relative size, based on population OF each county...



 
44Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 07:30
"my account says about a third of his small business clients are planning to close up shop in anticipation of Obamacare."
 
45Boldwin
      ID: 42105820
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 07:36
Communist Party USA Leader Hails Obama’s Reelection as the “Dawn of a New Era”

Al-Qaida’s leader Ayman al-Zawahiri declares victory.

Hard to disagree.
 
46Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 10:21
If I didn't know that God's Kingdom was going to solve all this, I'd be suggesting Bill Wittle's solution. He's got some very very interesting ideas in the meantime.

 
47Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 11:54
If my memory serves me Mayor Bloomberg turned away the national guard's help because *shudder* they had guns...and I could almost see a point if you look at it from a certain 'darkest FEMA' angle...but now this...

Not a parody: Bloomberg bans food donations to homeless shelters because the city can't control salt and fat content.

Honest to God, I do not understand how liberals look themselves in the mirror.

 
48Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 11:56
Actung! Put down that gruel! Too much gruel!
 
49sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:06
under what authority, CAN he ban donations to shelters? (Let alone the question of why he would)
 
50Frick
      ID: 157331422
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:18
Remember, Bloomberg knows more than you. Oh, you haven't eaten in 3 days? Well, this food isn't good for you, so too bad.
 
51Balrog
      Dude
      ID: 02856618
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:50
The ban is for city-run shelters so yeah, he can do whatever he wants. It doesn't ban all food donations, just unlabeled food.

Also, the linked article makes it look like Bloomberg just enacted this rule after Sandy. It actually went into effect in March.

Finally, having worked on food drives for food banks here in Colorado, I can tell you that they have similar rules. If it isn't labeled or it's expired, they won't take it for fear of poisoning somebody or something like that.
 
52Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:53
If my memory serves me ...

That hasn't always been the case when it comes to your recollection of "liberals" and their actions. Just sayin'.
 
53sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 12:56
OK...UNLABELED, doesnt surprise me they wouldnt accept that. Thanks for the clarification.
 
54Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 13:02
Balrog, I can understand banning for fear of contamination or expired labels. However, thats not what is happening here. We have our government dictating donations because of health content and trying to control salt intake.

Now different stories have slightly different takes. One I read makes it sound like he had no clue about the ban and it was just his administration. Others make it sound like its edicts from the Bloom himself. But either way, I don't feel any government entity should be dictating that kind of thing.
 
55Balrog
      Dude
      ID: 02856618
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 13:31
I agree that if they're banning un-opened bags of Fritos because they think they are unhealthy, that's stupid.

From what I've read, they are just banning foods for which they can't determine the nutritional content. They have nutrition rules for what the shelters serve just like most school districts have for lunches.

Again, this is for city-run shelters only. The Salvation Army in NYC can serve deep-fried Twinkies if they want to.
 
56Frick
      ID: 157331422
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 13:50
There is a slight difference between not accepting unlabeled food, for fear of liability, and not accepting food that doesn't meet your nutritional requirements. If the food banks are overflowing with food it might make more sense, but if it is simply Bloomberg wanting to control people's diets? No. You aren't god. Let people decide what to eat.
 
57Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 16:22
Expect minimal posting [considering my usual rate] and rare responses.

we always expect your responses to be rare. your posts have ZERO substance at this point. you feel you have carte blanche to lie, so you do.

repeatedly.
 
58Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 18:20
Tree

You can expect just about zero interaction. No one, absolutely no one wants to see you and I debate anything.
 
59Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:06
Bumper Sticker: You buy my ammunition, I'll buy your contraception. We got a deal?
 
60Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:06
I believe you use contraception so that the ammunition doesn't work. Of course, I'm a Catholic, so maybe I'm mixing things up here...
 
61Boldwin
      ID: 48102099
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:13
Two days after reelection, Obama shuts down 1.6 million acres to oil development

Well of course he did.
 
62DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 19:16


Go on... this should be fascinating.
 
63Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 20:30
Breitbart again proves to be the most pathetic excuse for journalism since WorldNetDaily.

From the Hill article Breitbart links titled:

Interior proposal would limit commercial oil shale development on federal lands in West

Under the plan, 677,000 acres in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming would be open for oil shale exploration. Another 130,000 acres in Utah would be set aside for tar sands production.


The administration and Democrats said that while the plan would curtail what was originally sought for oil shale development, it still opens up a significant amount of land that was previously unavailable for the energy production method.

The administration noted the plan pushed forward Friday also included two research, development and demonstration (RD&D) leases for oil shale development.


"The proposed plan supports the Administration’s all-of-the-above approach to explore the full potential our nation’s domestic energy resources and to develop innovative technology and techniques that will lead to safe and responsible production of resources, including oil shale and tar sands, which industry recognizes are years from being commercially viable, but require RD&D today," Interior spokesman Blake Androff said.

Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) praised the plan, saying the administration exercised the right amount of caution on oil shale development, which has not yet been brought to commercial scale and brings concerns about the amount of water used in the practice.

"I am glad the Interior Department is taking measured steps to encourage research and development of our oil shale resources. With water being one of our most precious commodities in the West, I have concerns about the potential impacts of commercial oil shale development. Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing this technology explored further," Udall said in a Friday statement.


Oil shale development is not to be confused with drilling into shale formations for oil and natural gas. The practice, which involves separating hydrocarbons bound up in rocks, has not been widely executed since Exxon's failed Colorado venture in the 1980s.

Bobby McEnaney, senior lands analyst with the Natural Resources Defense Council, praised Interior Secretary Ken Salazar for the proposed final plan.

“By significantly reducing the acreage of wilderness potentially available for leasing, Secretary Salazar is laying out a creative, thoughtful and more responsible approach in managing some of our most precious resources,” McEnaney said in a Friday statement.


Been through this all before and you've been thoroughly punked on it several times. You can't intelligently discuss the issue, so you resort to bombastic ignorance for your partisan drivel. I just rented an apartment in Grand Junction, where I'll spend part of the next six months expanding my business into Western Colorado. This is my territory. You should stick to Chicago politics, which you may actually have some knowledge about.




 
64Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 21:10
You can expect just about zero interaction. No one, absolutely no one wants to see you and I debate anything.

i totally understand. if i were you, i'd also be completely humiliated that someone i used to insult all the time is using facts to shoot down a lot of what i say.

if we debated facts, no one here would have an issue. you've made it clear, however, that you have zero interest in being honest or dealing in facts.
 
65sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 09, 2012, 21:25
maps of the 2012 election under various voting laws of our nations past

Until the 1970s when the voting age was dropped to 18, under voter eligibility laws, Romney wins at each stage. Only after combining suffrage+civil rights+youth vote, does Obama win.

Lots of relevant data here for the GOP, if they would just SEE the truth.
 
66Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 14:36
Secession! (I know--they article calls it "separation" but there is no practical difference)

I realize that most of the GOP don't refer to their political opponents as "maggots" but the dehumanization and the fact that they were all completely blindsided last Tuesday is a common thread as they thrash about trying to figure this out.
 
67Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 05:21
In June, a diffident and self-deluded President Obama claimed that "the private sector is doing fine." Last week, the private sector responded: Speak for yourself, buster. Who needs an "October Surprise" when the business headlines are broadcasting the imminent layoff bomb in neon lights?

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported last Tuesday that employers issued 1,316 "mass layoff actions" (affecting 50 workers or more) in September; more than 122,000 workers were affected overall. USA Today financial reporter Matt Krantz wrote that "(m)uch of the recent layoff activity is connected to what's been the slowest period of earnings growth since the third quarter of 2009." Some necessary restructuring is underway in response to the stagnant European economy. But more and more U.S. businesses are putting the blame -- bravely and squarely -- right where it belongs: on the obstructionist policies and regulatory schemes of the blame-shifter-in-chief.

Last week, Ohio-based auto parts manufacturer Dana Holding Corp. warned employees of potential layoffs amid "looming concern" about the economy. President and CEO Roger Wood specifically mentioned the walloping burden of "increasing taxes on small businesses" and the need to "offset increased costs that are placed on us through new laws and regulations."

Case in point: Obamacare. The mandate will cost Dana Holding Corp., which employs some 24,500 workers, "approximately $24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses." As Ohio Watchdog blogger Maggie Thurber reported, the firm's Toledo area corporate offices laid off seven white-collar employees last Friday; company insiders told her more were on the way. They are not alone.

On Tuesday, Consol Energy issued a federally mandated layoff disclosure announcing its "intent to idle its Miller Creek surface operations near Naugatuck, W.Va." The move will affect the company's Wiley Surface Mine, Wiley Creek Surface Mine, Minway Surface Mine, Minway Preparation Plant and Miller Creek Administration Group, all in Mingo County, W.Va. Despite state approval, cooperation with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and myriad other agencies, and a stellar safety record, Obama's EPA dragged its feet on the permit approval process. The impasse has forced layoffs of 145 Consol Energy employees that will hit at the end of the year. They are not alone.

In August, Robert E. Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy Corporation in Ohio, blasted the White House anti-coal agenda for the layoffs and closure of his company's mine. He told Obama water-carrying CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien that "the many regulations that (Obama) and his radical appointees and the U.S. EPA have put on the use of coal, there are dozens of them and collectively by his own energy administration, have closed 175 power plants." As O'Brien barked at her guest about purported environmental objections, Murray explained that "we cannot get permits for these mines. They are delaying the issuance of permits. If you can't get the permit, you can't have the mine. ... I created those jobs, and I put the investment in that mine. And when it came time to lay the people off, I went up personally and talked to every one of them myself to lay them off. It's a human issue."

And it's an innovation issue, too. As I reported in February, Obamacare's impending 2.3 percent medical device excise tax has already wrought havoc on the industry:

Stryker, a maker of artificial hips and knees based in Kalamazoo, Mich., is slashing 5 percent of its global workforce (an estimated 1,000 workers) this coming year to reduce costs related to Obamacare's taxes and mandates.

Covidien, a N.Y.-based surgical supplies manufacturer, recently announced layoffs of 200 American workers and plans to move some of its plant work to Mexico and Costa Rica, in part because of the coming tax hit.

Mass.-based Zoll Medical Corp., which makes defibrillators and employs some 1,800 workers in the U.S. and around the world, says the medical device tax will cost the company between $5 million and $10 million a year.

This July, Indiana's Cook Medical Inc. shelved plans to open five new plants because of the imminent medical device tax hit. They are not alone.

The heads of Koch Industries, Westgate Resorts and ASG Software Solutions have all separately informed their employees of prosperity-undermining Obama economic politics. Left-wing groups have lambasted the executives for exercising their political free speech.

But they have remained silent while the White House corruptocrats bribed federal defense contractors into delaying federally mandated layoff disclosures before the election. In a memo now being investigated on Capitol Hill, Obama promised to cover the legal fees of Lockheed Martin and other defense contractors if they ignored legal requirements to inform workers in advance about so-called sequestration cuts to the military's budget scheduled to kick in next year.

Truth suppression is a time-honored Obama tactic, of course. Remember: The administration and its Democratic allies on Capitol Hill attempted to punish Deere, Caterpillar, Verizon and ATT in 2010 for disclosing how the costs of Obamacare taxes were hitting their bottom lines -- even though they were simply following SEC disclosure requirements. The White House also tried to silence insurers who dared to inform their customers about how Obamacare was driving up premiums. Not this time.

The administration's bully boys don't have enough whitewash and duct tape to cover up the past, present and future devastation of the president and his economic demolition team. - Michelle Malkin
 
68Boldwin
      ID: 5710541118
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 05:28
Re:secession

The Red States are ready for a divorce right now.

No there won't be any credible call to do so forcibly but if it was on the ballot as a referenda, it would be adios maggots. The makers are there right now. So long Dems. See ya takers. Wouldn't wanna be ya. This election was the last straw.
 
69Boldwin
      ID: 361012125
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 06:12
I admit maggot is an ugly term, I'd prefer parasite or marxist to be clearer, but that's what it is. An infestation that will ultimately prove fatal to the host and which has little to no interest in the survival or health of the host.

It is what it is.
 
70Boldwin
      ID: 361012125
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 07:36
Notice how the 'Great Uniter', Mr Post-racial wasn't even trying to unite. He was always out to pry every last category away from those with an original American perspective.

He's deliberately broken the social contract between transformers and conservers.
 
71Boldwin
      ID: 361012125
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 07:47
And between those with common sense and those without.

We now live in an era that if Dan Savage put on his Sandra Fluke dress, showed up at a congressional committee and weeped about the undue burden the cost of his KY budget was and how those unbearably mean conservatives were preventing government provided KY jelly...

Progressives would just nod their heads, 'Fair Point', next election cycle 'war on gays' why oh why no free KY?
 
72Boldwin
      ID: 361012125
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 07:50
It's crazy season alright but don't blame me.
 
73Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 09:30
It is what it is

What it appears to be is Obama Derangement Syndrome kicked into high gear. That's not to say that the anger and disconnect with reality wasn't obsessive prior to last Tuesday, but what little rationality existed has all but evaporated.

Despite his shortcomings as a candidate; despite his continual chameleon-like positions on issues; despite his failure to understand the importance of this country's changing demographics, I'm convinced Mitt Romney would have been an effective and flexible president. I'm on record in this forum going back to the 2008 primaries as a Romney admirer, which can't be said for our resident conservative, who consistently slammed Romney until it came down to a Romney/Obama contest.
Of course the Mormon thing never bothered me, which also can't be said for many who voted for Romney last Tuesday. Despite this, I'm lumped into the unethical, anti-American characterization which doesn't describe any of the posters it was intended to insult.

So, if it is what it is, the Republicans hold a significant majority in the House, the Democrats hold the senate and the executive branch. Most Americans are concerned where we go from here, and hope that all sides can work together in a positive and constructive manner. Those who fixate on Obama as a Marxist, Kenyan, Muslim interloper who wants to destroy the country are what they are: left behind.
 
74DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 09:47
"Notice how the 'Great Uniter', Mr Post-racial wasn't even trying to unite. He was always out to pry every last category away from those with an original American perspective."

I don't think he was anti-Indian at all.
 
75Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 09:53
more succession: yay Texas! oy.


No there won't be any credible call to do so forcibly but if it was on the ballot as a referenda, it would be adios maggots. The makers are there right now. So long Dems. See ya takers. Wouldn't wanna be ya. This election was the last straw.


only a fool would believe this - granted, there are lots of fools in this country, usually among the ranks of those who believe the election was stolen, Obama isn't America, Obama is a Muslim, Homosexuals did us in, Christians didn't vote enough, and so on and so forth.

of course, never mind the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court rules secession illegal eons ago. the last time states tried to secede, it didn't work out so well, and many in the South are still fighting that war 150 years later.

 
76Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 16:04
In response to #61,

US Set To Overtake Saudi in Oil Output:IEA


LONDON--A shale oil boom means the U.S. will overtake Saudi Arabia as the world's largest oil producer by 2020, a radical shift that could profoundly transform not just the world's energy supplies, but also its geopolitics, the International Energy Agency said Monday.

How does one reconcile this prediction with the false headline in #61?

Two days after reelection, Obama shuts down 1.6 million acres to oil development

First off, as explained in #63,

Under the plan, 677,000 acres in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming would be open for oil shale exploration. Another 130,000 acres in Utah would be set aside for tar sands production.

Next, as I have explained previously, only to fall on the deaf ears of #61's author,

Oil shale development is not to be confused with drilling into shale formations for oil and natural gas.

Simply put, the Bakken and Marcellus shale fields are a completely different animal than the Green River formation in a number of different ways, the most important being the oil in the Rocky Mountains is actually contained within the rock, and can't be obtained by fracking.
As I've also explained previously, the logistics of delivering the fuel from the Rockies on a huge commercial scale are far more complicated and expensive than delivery from the relatively flat areas of Eastern Montana/Western North Dakota and Pennsylvania/New York. Making roads in a remote area of the Rockies to accomodate trucks and tanker trailers, is a much bigger challenge. Then there is the challenge of housing and associated services for the workers, when the nearest small town(like 2,000 population)may be 50 miles away on a dirt road.

Next, there is the critically important issue of water.

In the Bakken, the
average annual precipitation for Williston, ND is 14.16 inches.

Average annual precipitation in Elmira, NY is double that.

Average annual precipitation in Vernal, Utah is 8.64 inches.

Oil shale production in Utah/Colorado/Wyoming will be part of the mix, but nowhere near the output from horizontal drilling techniques being employed in the Bakken and Marcellus fields, and less than what we'll realize from offshore activities in varied locales. Protecting 1.6 million acres of precipitation-challenged Rocky Mountain land, while allowing production on 677,000 acres is a good balance, which allows for needed production of domestic sources while recognizing that a sizeable portion of this unique land be spared from environmentally devastating extraction industries.

 
77DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 16:16
He already replied with a non-responsive troll in the other thread this news was posted in. When the reality doesn't fit the hateful world view, change the reality.
 
78Boldwin
      ID: 1310561215
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 16:56
Secession petitions filed in 20 states.

Of course they are symbolic but the fun part is afaik they are taking advantage of a mechanism Obama put in place himself where if you could come up with enuff signatures in a certain period of time the president would have to deal directly with the people's petition.
 
79Tree
      ID: 53555306
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 17:22
of the first 119 names on texas', only 45 were actually from the state. it's likely the same group of idiots signing them over and over and over again.
 
80DWetzel
      ID: 25740420
      Mon, Nov 12, 2012, 17:53
Rampant voter fraud, IMO.
 
84Boldwin
      ID: 2810151220
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 11:28
Ohio food stamps funds run dry. Yeah, but they already served their purpose.
 
85Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 11:34
You don't do much research these days, it seems.
 
86Boldwin
      ID: 2810151220
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 11:44
One of us knew Ohio's food stamp fund ran dry.

One of us thinks an information-free bronx cheer is a valuable post.
 
87sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 12:03
google shows nothing B. Other than a right wingnut opinion blog, what do you have? (FTR, you havent posted a valuable info content type post, in quite some time, outside of the science thread)

you dont mean this do you?

Ohioans' food stamp benefits will decrease

 
88sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 12:28
I find nothing Boldwin, re OH's food stamp fund running dry. Well, not quite NOTHING, but next to it. There is a google hit for a rightwing blog that pops up, but the blog has been removed.

google search results


conservative rocker blog has been removed

so your post 86? (Like too many others in recent history) Devoid of both relevance and accuracy.
 
89Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 12:35
One of us knew ...

After getting spanked just a week ago (and fairly consistently both before and after) I think you need to get your soapbox taken away for awhile.

Some Ohioans will see a $50/month decrease in benefits starting in January. Is this what you are referring to?
 
90Great One
      ID: 2431114
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 14:57
Texas on way to being a swing state?
 
91Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 15:26
I've been reading a bit on that. Another reason why the GOP has to stop letting racism guide its policies and start getting back to its conservative roots.
 
92Tree
      ID: 1110281314
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 15:29
no question Texas is becoming a swing state, and those of us who live here, know it. some of the voting for certain precincts was very heavy for Obama/Biden.
 
93Mith
      ID: 98342014
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 16:36
They've got one or two more presidential elections left as a solidly red state.
 
94walk
      ID: 5010561310
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 17:00
Really? Wow, I did not know that Texas was moving on the continuum. 57 to 41 seemed pretty solid for Romney, a d I think it was slightly narrower in 2008 against McCain?

NYT: Texas Results
 
95sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 17:10
the demographics are changing walk. If the GOP doesnt address their minority gap, 8-12 years and TX is a swing state, 20-24 and it could be hard blue.
 
96Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 21:05
Latino population is exploding there. Anglos make up something like 30% of school age children and that number is shrinking fast.
 
97Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 17:51
A Twitter profile now days:
American Attitude
American Attitude
@marklindesr

Retired Cop. Served in Army Intelligence. Catholic. America isn't just a country, it's a way of life, a can-do attitude. An American Attitude.

Deep behind enemy lines
 
98Razor
      ID: 177192916
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 17:58
Texas isn't moving any time soon, but I'll tell you a state that might is Georgia. It was the second closest state that Romney won behind North Carolina. 53-45 is a shockingly small margin for this state. The influx of Latinos into the state has made the state much more competitive. You're also only talking about flipping 150,000 votes, whereas Texas you'd have to flip over half a million.
 
99Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:04
Those fine folks at the EPA. Warning! Heil particulate levels today.
 
100Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 18:15
Class warfare and America is losing.

Nomenklatura vs everyone else
 
101Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 19:24
The GOP just finished a "come on all you white folks" race, and somehow it is the Democrats engaging in "class warfare."

Huh. I guess words don't mean the same thing in Conservative Universe.
 
102Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 20:32
Class warfare

Obama today at his press conference:

"With respect to the issue of mandate, I've got one mandate. I've got a mandate to help middle-class families and families that are working hard to try to get into the middle class. That's my mandate."

This could be interpreted as a statement in favor of class warfare. There's nothing inherently wrong with Obama championing the middle-class, but it flys in the face of being the president for all Americans, to exclude upper class families as part of his mandate.

The politics of polarization works both ways, and the business community, especially, should be encouraged to participate in Obama's mandate in the most positive and productive terms. It also gives creedence to accusations of socialism and wealth redistribution, even if the intention is miles away from that which the accusers want to use as ammunition.
 
103Razor
      ID: 139162221
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:21
How does the comment that he wants to help middle and lower class Americans give credence to accusations of socialism? He has proposed tax increases that largely avoid these groups of people, but he has an eye on deficit reduction, not additional spending to benefit these groups.
 
104Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:39
There won't be a true middle class in his vision of the future. There will only be

1) a few politically connected wealthy cronies

2) Party enforcers and foot-soldiers making 10-20 times what the poor live on

3) The masses
 
105sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:45
I think B, you need to put down the rightwing blogs, and read actual US political history for a bit.
 
106Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 21:59
How does the comment that he wants to help middle and lower class Americans give credence to accusations of socialism?

That's not what he said. He said,

" I've got one mandate. I've got a mandate to help middle-class families and families that are working hard to try to get into the middle class."

Let me preface this by saying I don't think the statement is nefarious, but it is exclusive. His mandate should be to help families regardless of their financial status, and families that are working hard to get into the upper financial classes as well. Obama famously stated on July 16,

"If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

Again, that might not be a nefarious statement when broken down, but lots of successful businessmen feel they did build it, and they shouldn't be left out of any second term mandate. I fear, after Obama's response today, too many will feel that the president is not in their corner, as they strive to grow their businesses. I say this as a business owner.
 
107Perm Dude
      ID: 3210201915
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 22:02
The question at the press conference wasn't about his goals. It was about whether he had a mandate as a result of the election. Given his consistency on pushing middle class interests, I'd have to agree.
 
108Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 22:17
I really wish they hadn't scrubbed the internet of the speech Frances Fox Piven gave on an Occupy Wallstreet streetcorner in which she corrected the crowd, that they really shouldn't expect to be advancing middle class interests. That wasn't in the plan at all.
 
109Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 22:29
#108

Why would anyone care about something(and someone) so completely irrelevant?
 
110Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Wed, Nov 14, 2012, 23:01
I really wish they hadn't scrubbed the internet...

who is "they"?

and really??? are you actually trying to prove your nuts with statements like that?
 
113Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 06:51
'they is Piven herself, I presume. I watched it on youtube myself. It can't be found now. You do the math. The fact that the revolution will eat the middle class wasn't going to be helpful to completing the revolution. Can't have that going viral.
 
115Mith
      ID: 18451815
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 07:07
Here you go.

It stems from a single article Piven cowrote for The Nation in 1966. The Nation's circulation was probably under 100,000 at the time and has never grown larger than it's peak at 187,00 in 2006.
 
116Boldwin
      ID: 1210341416
      Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 07:09


The man who should have been the first black president debating Piven.
 
117Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 13:20
No Twinkies for you.
 
118Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 14:27
Shelf-life slightly longer than 'nuclear war and the extinction of cockroaches'...More popular than apple pie and only slightly less popular than mom.

...just couldn't survive union thugery. What part of 'we're in a depression' can't you power-tripping greed-heads comprehend?
 
119slug
      ID: 167132313
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 14:43
might be the part where
the Hostess CEO was awarded a 300% raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) prior to the January 11, 2012 bankruptcy filing. Additionally, at least nine additional top executives also received incredible raises ranging from 35% to 80%. For example, one such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000. The chief negotiator for Hostess received a pay increase from $375,000 to $656,256
 
120Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 14:54
There's thuggery all right. But management were the perpetrators, not the victims.
 
121Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:02
The case for reverse discrimination: Wonder Bread is no more.

Need I say more?
 
122sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:06
we'd all prefer you didnt.
 
123biliruben
      ID: 41431323
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:06
Baldwin's got some serious talent. I, no matter how hard I try, can't figure out how to type while my fingers are in my ears.
 
124Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:16
Slug

Tho outrageous, that is between them and the shareholders.
 
125Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:18
They can't possibly let those recipes die, can they? I assume whoever holds the rights to them lets them out to another company in a less union friendly production zone.
 
126Tree
      ID: 2910181611
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 15:37
I assume whoever holds the rights to them lets them out to another company in a less union friendly production zone.

amazing how in the post before you can talk about the "outrageous" behavior in 119, then turn around and blame the union.

 
127sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 16:00
I think Boldwin needs to watch some industrial history. Local cable NatGeo channel, ahs been running "Men Who Made America". Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Carnegie, et al. How they ABUSED labor, killed workers who went on strike, and ran 12 hr days, 7 day work weeks in steel smelting plants. I doubt very damn many of us, would last long working under those conditions.
 
128Boldwin
      ID: 131052163
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 16:02
The next time your union says, "the owner is bluffing!" Tell him he's a DingDong. - Richard Grenell
 
129Tree
      ID: 57842011
      Fri, Nov 16, 2012, 17:59
the next time Baldwin posts, say "Non sequitur" - anyone who has read any of his previous posts.
 
130Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 00:55
Laid-Off Hostess Employee Forced To Look For Creme-Injecting Job Somewhere Else
 
131sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:06
Vulture capitalists, ate Hostess
 
132Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:25
Always you tell us just half the story.

DEMOCRAT vulture capitalists ate Hostess.
And here comes the Hostess twist: because Tim Collins of Ripplewood, was a prominent Democrat, a position which allowed him to get involved in the first bankruptcy process in the first place, due to his proximity with the Teamsters' long-term heartthrob Dick Gephardt (whose consulting group just happens to also be an equity owner of Hostess). In other words, the traditional republican-cum-PE scapegoating strategy here will be a tough one to pull off since the narrative collapses when considering that it was a Democrat who rescued the firm, only to see it implode in a trainwreck that has resulted in the liquidation of a legendary brand, and 18,500 layoffs.

 
133sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:30
Doesnt matter Dem or Independent or whatever party. Vultures, are vultures.
 
134Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:39
Hostess, of course, filed for bankruptcy in 2004, during which the unions gave back an estimated $110 million in concessions (none of which were actually put back into the company).

This was a year or so after they started closing plants.

When the new management demanded even more money from the unions those unions balked--after all, none of the 6 CEO's since 2002 were asked to give up their salaries or pensions, yet there was no evidence the new management was going to use the concessions to save anything having to do with the company.

This is an example of what venture capitalists often do: Suck companies in bankruptcy dry while collecting huge fees and even bonuses, then tossing the husk of a company over their shoulders, blaming "unions" for it all.
 
135biliruben
      ID: 59551120
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 01:57
Don't forget gutting pensions. The current incarnation of the GOP thinks only "real Americans", but which they mean CEOs I guess, deserve to retire in reasonable comfort. Cat food for all the fake Americans who have the gall to negotiate instead of bow and scrape.
 
136Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:51
The economy is so bad MSNBC had to lay off 300 Obama spokesmen. - Jay Leno
 
137Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:55
Cat food for all the fake Americans who have the gall to negotiate instead of bow and scrape.

Any union representative with his client's best interests in mind makes concessions now and wins them back after the depression ends.

Those with arrogant stupid thugs for union leaders get extended tours exploring the social safety net.
 
138Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 11:38
Medical giant Stryker cuts 1,170 jobs, citing ObamaCare
 
139Boldwin
      ID: 910431619
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 11:46
Record sales of course, as I predicted.

 
140Tree
      ID: 5510121711
      Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:12
Record sales of course, as I predicted.

not a difficult prediction to make, considering the same thing happened 4 years ago.
 
141sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 13:02
Inside the Hostess Bankery

In 2005 it was another contract year and this time there was no way out of concessions. The Union negotiated a deal that would save the company $150 million a year in labor. It was a tough internal battle to get people to vote for it. We turned it down twice. Finally the Union told us it was in our best interest and something had to give. So many of us, including myself, changed our votes and took the offer. Remember that next time you see CEO Rayburn on tv stating that we haven't sacrificed for this company. The company then emerged from bankruptcy. In 2005 before concessions I made $48,000, last year I made $34,000. My pay changed dramatically but at least I was still contributing to my self-funded pension.

In July of 2011 we received a letter from the company. It said that the $3+ per hour that we as a Union contribute to the pension was going to be 'borrowed' by the company until they could be profitable again. Then they would pay it all back. The Union was notified of this the same time and method as the individual members. No contact from the company to the Union on a national level.

This money will never be paid back. The company filed for bankruptcy and the judge ruled that the $3+ per hour was a debt the company couldn't repay.


Evil union. Just cause you took a 14k/yr pay cut, had your pension stolen by the company and saw CEO after CEO come and go while taking multiple millions of dollars.....
 
142boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 13:36
saw CEO after CEO come and go while taking multiple millions of dollars

The problem is that companies have yet to realize that CEO's are as replaceable as everyday works and there pay should reflect that.
 
143Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 14:13
Post 138 - a follow up to the discussion we had going in The Real Obama 4 thread. Yet another industry and another company passing the cost of this care on to us, the consumer and downsizing.
 
144sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 15:13
Record corporate profits, and rather than invest part of those profits in employee wellness, they terminate people. THAT, is why I so despise corporate America.
 
145Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 15:30
#142: Wow--a boikin post that could have been written by Seattle Zen.
 
146boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 17:02
I am not sure how to take that, but the point I was trying to make is that CEO is not rocket science, yes there are special cases of CEO's that deserve the big money just like some professional athletes, but the problem is most of CEO's are more like minor league players whose skills are not much different from any other minor league player. If that all makes sense?
 
147Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 17:14
complete sense. And I certainly agree with you.
 
148Seattle Zen
      ID: 47630913
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 18:01
I am not sure how to take that

That's these board's Presidential Medal of Freedom! There is NO HIGHER HONOR!
 
149Khahan
      ID: 54138190
      Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 20:16
Cant say I disagree with anything from 142 onward. The problem is, even companies that realize CEO's are replaceable are all taking from the same pool of candidates. They're all the same after the same goals. Replacing one with a carbon copy of himself.
 
150biliruben
      ID: 21841115
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 11:38
Krugman Reminds us what the golden age of America was like:

Yet in the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, while taxes on corporate profits were twice as large, relative to national income, as in recent years. The best estimates suggest that circa 1960 the top 0.01 percent of Americans paid an effective federal tax rate of more than 70 percent, twice what they pay today.

Nor were high taxes the only burden wealthy businessmen had to bear. They also faced a labor force with a degree of bargaining power hard to imagine today. In 1955 roughly a third of American workers were union members. In the biggest companies, management and labor bargained as equals, so much so that it was common to talk about corporations serving an array of “stakeholders” as opposed to merely serving stockholders.

Squeezed between high taxes and empowered workers, executives were relatively impoverished by the standards of either earlier or later generations. In 1955 Fortune magazine published an essay, “How top executives live,” which emphasized how modest their lifestyles had become compared with days of yore. The vast mansions, armies of servants, and huge yachts of the 1920s were no more; by 1955 the typical executive, Fortune claimed, lived in a smallish suburban house, relied on part-time help and skippered his own relatively small boat

----

Strange to say, however, the oppressed executives Fortune portrayed in 1955 didn’t go Galt and deprive the nation of their talents. On the contrary, if Fortune is to be believed, they were working harder than ever. And the high-tax, strong-union decades after World War II were in fact marked by spectacular, widely shared economic growth: nothing before or since has matched the doubling of median family income between 1947 and 1973.
 
151Boldwin
      ID: 1010402018
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 19:40
Think the unions are on your side?

Judge orders mediation and Frank Hurt doesn't even bother showing up, sends the union's secretary-treasurer.

 
152sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 19:56
another blog opinion piece B? We KNOW, your sources are going to bash unions, Democrats, and anything left of AC. Thats a given. Try something new, like linking to a NEWS source, for news.
 
153Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 20:32
Even according to that slanted piece, the judge didn't "order" mediation. He "suggested" and "urged."
 
154Boldwin
      ID: 1010402018
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 22:43
What part if From the WSJ: don't you understand?
From the WSJ:

Hostess Brands Inc. said Tuesday night it would proceed with liquidation plans after mediation fails.

"I'm not too optimistic about this mediation," Frank Hurt, president of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, said when reached earlier Tuesday afternoon in Columbus, Ohio. He said he couldn't get to New York, where the session was taking place; instead, he said, the union's secretary-treasurer was attending.



Hostess Brands Inc. said Tuesday night it would proceed with liquidation plans after mediation fails.

Earlier Tuesday, the head of the bakers union whose strike precipitated Hostess liquidation plans didn't attend a last-ditch mediation session and wasn't hopeful about its prospects, he said.

"I'm not too optimistic about this mediation," Frank Hurt, president of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, said when reached earlier Tuesday afternoon in Columbus, Ohio. He said he couldn't get to New York, where the session was taking place; instead, he said, the union's secretary-treasurer was attending.

The mediation came at a judge's suggestion after the Twinkie maker said Friday that a week-long strike by the bakers left the company no choice but to seek a bankruptcy judge's approval for liquidation.

The judge, Robert Drain, urged mediation...

The judge indicated Monday that if mediation wasn't successful, Hostess could return to court Wednesday to pursue its liquidation plan.
Got that? Mediation ordered Monday. Mediation [without Frank Hurt] Tuesday. Liquidation plan finalized Wednesday.

And Frank Hurt takes the power he thinks he won, the credible threat he brings to the next company he tries to strongarm.
 
155Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 23:00
Mediation ordered Monday

Mediation was not "ordered." It was "urged" and "suggested."

Twice now you have said a basic untruth which undercuts your argument.
 
156sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 23:10
zerohedge.com. is NOT the WSJ
 
157Boldwin
      ID: 1010402018
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 23:34
Zero Hedge was quoting the WSJ verbatim.
 
158sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Tue, Nov 20, 2012, 23:47
As we said, if only people had a basic understanding of how bankruptcy truly worked, and what the real state of the economy was, then Hostess' workers may have had a chance and some amicable comrpomise would have been possible.

Then again, if people in America actually understood economics and simple finance, then the "Ohio outcome", and many others, would have likely been quite different.


No, they were not. It is an opinion piece, an editorial, with some WSJ quotes contained within. The piece itself, is a hack job.
 
159Boldwin
      ID: 411028215
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 06:32
The area in the blockquote was verbatim. Stop with the unwarranted slander both of me and of that author.
 
160sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 13:17
? Slander? Of you AND the author? It was a partisan hack job Boldwin. PD called it, in 153. Grow up dude.
 
161Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 15:00
The conservative chattering class is still unclear as to the concept: Chait dismantles Podhoretz' post election spin.

The astonishing turnabout in the evaluation of Obama’s campaign, from delusional nincompoops to the most terrifyingly efficient campaign apparatus in history, helps Podhoretz reach his desired conclusion, that Obama’s victory owed nothing at all to his policy platform.
 
162Boldwin
      ID: 2010382210
      Thu, Nov 22, 2012, 11:48
If only the damage could be contained in the vicinity of poity headed Obama-voting ivory tower dwellin' college teachin' libruls.
Pennsylvania's Community College of Allegheny County (CCAC) is slashing the hours of 400 adjunct instructors, support staff, and part-time instructors to dodge paying for Obamacare.
Most interesting are the quotes 'from our betters'. You know, those enlightened minds society needs to run things, where the rest of us are not so capable of making our own decisions. The kind of minds we will need making health decisions for us. The kinds of minds we need coming up with the next five year plan. The kind of visionary minds that will look ahead and help us avoid the pitfalls ahead we might have fallen into without their paternalistic authoritive visionary guidance. Tell us the 'smart growth' plan oh mighty visionaries...
"It's kind of a double whammy for us because we are facing a legal requirement [under the new law] to get health care and if the college is reducing our hours, we don't have the money to pay for it," said adjunct biology professor Adam Davis.
No, really? This never occurred to you before? You couldn't see this coming? I saw it four years ago. Only the majority of Americans saw it coming and opposed it.

Union representatives provide clever input.
The solution, says United Steelworkers representative Jeff Cech, is that adjunct professors should unionize in an attempt to thwart schools seeking similar cost-savings efforts from avoiding Obamacare.

"They may be complying with the letter of the law, but the letter of law and the spirit of the law are two different things," said Mr. Cech. "If they are doing it at CCAC, it can't be long before they do it other places."
There you have the solution. Make it illegal to structure your business to maximize profits. Comply with the spirit of the law, oh greedy capitalists. Bestow nirvana upon us, whether you can afford to do so or not. Ours is not the burden of coming up with the money. That's your job.

It can't be long before it happens elsewhere? Really quick on the uptake.
 
163sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Thu, Nov 22, 2012, 12:02
Allllll these thoughts about cutting hours...wont...matter. Have they not READ and consulted with legal?
 
166Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Thu, Nov 22, 2012, 13:56
Rather than throw them to the wolves (which is what the GOP would have happen) all those employees are eligible for credits toward getting their own insurance.

Here in the United States, we've always had laws to prevent companies from "maximizing profits." Surprised it took the rapid Right this long to notice.
 
168Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 11:02
all those employees are eligible for credits toward getting their own insurance.

Good thing they are getting credits. Because with less hours and less pay there is less money to buy a product the government is telling us we must purchase.


 
169Boldwin
      ID: 71035232
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 11:11
The children of the French hippie communists of the 1968 generation have a message for their parents.

 
170Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 11:16
#168: Sure, but we're better off as a country when more people have insurance. They live longer and healthier, meaning that they work more and contribute more in taxes.

Plus, of course, the "side benefit" of people living longer, and healthier. Hard to get more pro-life than that.
 
171Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 13:01
170 - that has yet to be seen if we're better off as a country. In my eyes, we're worse off as a country with less individual freedom and more government intrusion because of the way the healthcare plan was enacted.
 
172sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Fri, Nov 23, 2012, 13:08
Anything that enables more people to obtain diagnostic services BEFORE cancer advances to stage 4, is a good thing. No need to wait for anything to know that.
 
173Boldwin
      ID: 291029284
      Wed, Nov 28, 2012, 10:37
Past is prologue:
Almost two-thirds of the country’s million-pound earners disappeared from Britain after the introduction of the 50p top rate of tax, figures have disclosed.



Hey! No one baked any bread!

No goose dinner tonite. No goose dinner ever again.
 
174Boldwin
      ID: 521116123
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 19:43
In a move both Reid and Obama railed against in the past they propose to eliminate the filibuster. A proposal they had a cow over when Republicans considered it WRT approving court nominees. Worse they plan on breaking the rules, to break the rules.
"Make no mistake, what [Reid] is proposing is a Senate where the only rule is his whim, where the rest of us are bystanders, including the members of his own party," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said. "The Democrats really want to go down this road? They really think they’re going to be in the majority forever?"

Also under consideration by Sen. Reid - utilizing the so-called "nuclear option" which would call for just a simple majority, or 51 votes, to change Senate rules. Changing the rules usually requires two-thirds of the chamber, or 67 votes. As Sen. McConnell so aptly put it: Sen. Reid is advocating "breaking the rules to change the rules."

This raw power grab would be a mistake - the ramifications of which would be felt for generations to come.

Jay Sekulow
 
175sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 19:45
BS...this move was made necessary, by the GOPs exercising more filibusters in 2 years, than in the 50 years prior...COMBINED. the GOPs shameful behavior, has caused a need to alter the method by which the Senate functions. Dont like it? Then grow the hell up and act like an adult.
 
176Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 21:22
"Raw power grab" LOL! Letting the majority get their way--its practically unamerican!

Obama doesn't have a say in how the Senate changes their own rules, of course. And my reading is that the Democrats can change the Senate rules by majority whenever they want.

It is the GOP that has abused the rules by threatening filibusters at the drop of a hat.

Here's the thing: This will make very clear which party is proposing something, since it will actually become law. Right now the people have little idea of which policy proposals will work, since most of them are blocked from being made law and being tried out.

 
177sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 21:45
Unfortunately, this will only solve the Senatorial dilemma. The House, is still being led by spoiled 6 yr olds, who dont realize they LOST the election.
 
178Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 21:47
One problem at a time...

The Senate confirms many Administration appointments. This will get rid of the huge backlog of appointees that McConnell has been refusing to let come to the floor for an up or down confirmation vote.
 
179sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 21:51
true that
 
180sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 21:52
we can hope Ashley Judd runs and unseats McConnell
 
181Boldwin
      ID: 481111221
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 22:15
The House, is still being led by spoiled 6 yr olds, who dont realize they LOST the election.

Unless you were attempting to admit to massive voter fraud, which I can help you with, they all in point of fact won.
 
182sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 22:34
House Dem candidates nationally, pulled more votes cumulatively, than did Republican House candidates.

The GOP lost seats in the House AND in the Senate.

The GOP would have lost the House entirely, had the 2010 gerrymandering been less massive in its scope. (As it was a census year, the GOP is pretty much assured House control, through 2020.)

You can not demonstrate wide spread voter fraud UNLESS, you are referring to the massive effort by the GOP, to dissuade people from voting in the first place.

 
183Boldwin
      ID: 481111221
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 22:51
Seriously, you think a 'good' republican House member fresh off winning last month, should think to himself, 'well I lost so I should vote socialist.'
 
184Tree
      ID: 1910562515
      Sun, Dec 02, 2012, 23:02
Unless you were attempting to admit to massive voter fraud, which I can help you with, they all in point of fact won.

you won't even respond to when you claim someone went "underground", when in fact, they were at the polling stations.

so you can help with voter fraud? you can't even be even the least bit honest when confronting the truth to your lies.
 
185Boldwin
      ID: 281118321
      Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 22:18
Worth a read.
 
186Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 22:52
Dick Armey splits with Tea Party group.

And it doesn't sound like an amicable split by any means.
 
187Boldwin
      ID: 281118321
      Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 23:05
Reading Tom Delay's book recently, ['No Retreat/No Surrender'] Dick Armey came in for Delay's only harsh treatment of all the republican leadership team working with Newt. Delay feels Armey was unusually self-centered/ambitious even for that setting and could not work with others.

Odd since Armey is good at projecting a sensible reasonable persona. Too bad since republicans really need good communicators and Armey is well spoken.
 
188Boldwin
      ID: 501111510
      Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 18:36
this year, Merriam-Webster broke with precedent and chose two words together, or as he said "a pairing of a kind." The 2012 words of the year are socialism and capitalism, words "that trended together, that show that when one was looked up, so was the other,"
 
189Tree
      ID: 441143517
      Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 18:43
from the linked article:

"We saw a huge spike for 'socialism' on Election Day itself, but interest in both words was very high all year," says Peter Sokolowski, editor at large at Merriam-Webster. "Lookups of one word often led to lookups of the other."

makes you wonder exactly how many nimrods were tossing around that word long before election day.

 
190Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 19:12
As the GOP tracks down those Republicans who looked up the definitions, they will be systematically removed from the party rolls.
 
191sarge33rd
      ID: 12554167
      Wed, Dec 05, 2012, 19:46
One does have to wonder, how the anti-socialist GOP, justifies the vast defense spending that it does. Particularly when you realize, the military is a vast socialist complex. Free housing, free medical, subsidized groceries, subsidized big box shopping, subsidized air travel, uniforms provided, moves fully paid for, school system run by the organization, etc .
 
192Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 22:08
Twinkies CEO admits the company raided employee pensions for executive salaries.

The unions fault, of course. Driving the executives to such crass displays of greed.
 
193Boldwin
      ID: 2811321220
      Wed, Dec 12, 2012, 23:49
France too.
 
194Tree
      ID: 111141314
      Thu, Dec 13, 2012, 15:04
Pay disparity between CEO and an employee of two decades...

 
195Boldwin
      ID: 14331254
      Thu, Apr 25, 2013, 10:30
Army labels Baptists and Catholics as hostile forces and blocks their access from military computers or otherwise censors them.
 
196Boldwin
      ID: 49250121
      Thu, Mar 05, 2015, 11:49
I forget where the discussion of bili's oil futures contract is so I'll resurrect this excellent thread to place this comment.

Algo traders went nuts the last time the oil inventory numbers spiked, driving the contract numbers down. The inventory just spiked again in a record way and this time the algos went nuts driving the contract numbers up!

I guess they figure the inventories last time represented desperate suppliers caught, and this time represent a belief insider knowledge expects large price increases.

Looks like you have at the very least a window to cash in big.

I'm at a loss to see what kind of a price hike they see coming that justifies storing oil at a minimum of $25gal/mo expense... a war maybe? I'll happily consider any other idea.