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0 Subject: Dirty Dozen 2017

Posted by: Khahan
- [10151510] Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 11:08

The Dirty Dozen League Constitution
Entry Fee = $30 (Due by Opening Day) Fee paid to Great One, I believe he prefers paypal.
7 keepers
Keeper Deadline outlined below or they will be picked for you.
Any trade or keeper change after that will not be accepted.
Next Day Transactions - Daily/Tomorrow
Waivers - Continual Rolling List

Payouts = $360
1st Place $245
2nd Place $ 75
3rd Place $ 30
Kafenatid $ 10*

Trade Review
Commish review, will push through in about 24 hours unless anyone raises any questions. Generally the next morning unless a trade was accepted the evening before.

Categories & Positions
Roster Positions: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF, OF, OF, Util, Util (new)
SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P, P, P, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, DL, DL, DL
Batters Stat Categories: Runs (R), Home Runs (HR), Runs Batted In (RBI), Stolen Bases (SB), Batting Average (AVG)
Pitchers Stat Categories: Wins (W), Saves (SV), Strikeouts (K), Earned Run Average (ERA), (Walks + Hits)/ Innings Pitched (WHIP)

Trade Deadline
Last available date offered by Yahoo (usually about a month before season ends)

Here's a link to the 2015 season discussion.

* - kafenatid is typically paid by the last place team and not part of the pot.
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.]
183Khahan
      ID: 397302411
      Thu, Aug 24, 2017, 12:30
So just to be clear, Astade traded Loki his round 6 pick in the Conforto deal and now Loki is trading that same pick back to Astade in the Lynn deal? This will be fun sorting thru and keeping straight next year. haha
184astade
      ID: 487112420
      Thu, Aug 24, 2017, 21:12
yes
185loki
      ID: 15046816
      Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 09:55
Should not be too difficult as long as we document the trades here.
186loki
      ID: 15046816
      Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 18:38
My trade of Billy Hamilton for Nelson Cruz in order to gain in hitting categories in particular HRs has been costly. Cruz has hit 2 HRs since the trade and has been dismal in the other hitting categories. Meanwhile losing Hamilton will cost me 1 point in SBs and give DaBomb a point. I knew that I could lose the SB point but thought that I would more than make it up in the hitting categories. Cruz has 4 weeks to turn it around.
Which is more appropriate:
"The best laid plans of mice and men..." or
"Can't anyone here play this game," to quote Casey Stengel with the NY Mets in their 1st season.
187Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Sep 05, 2017, 21:38
hey loki - how about, "there's no crying in (fantasy) baseball" ;)


From your choices I'll take best laid plans. . .
188loki
      ID: 15046816
      Wed, Sep 06, 2017, 18:14
Perhaps the Zephyrs are getting a little karma/dumb luck.
Both of my big players that I traded away, Conforto and Hamilton have season ending injuries.
189Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 22:49
I know its a little early yet, but if you are looking to rebuild come see me this off-season. My keeper situation is crowded the way a Tokyo Subway is crowded, with only 7 slots we can fill.

The "Not Going Anywhere so Dont Ask" Group
Trea Turner
Manny Machado

The "Willing to move but you wont like the cost, but try to blow me away" Group
Aaron Judge
Andrew Benintendi
Corey Kluber

The "I cant keep them all so I might as well get what I can for them" Group
Max Scherzer
Dallas Keuchel
Stephen Strasburg

The "I have no more room but they'd be a keeper on your team" Group

Craig Kimbrel
Corey Knebel
Justin Smoak
Marcell Ozuna

and finally The "I'd have been thrilled to have their talent 2-3 years ago to build around" Group
Ian Happ
Tyler Glasnow
Keon Broxton
Kolton Wong

Picks are absolutely the best. I'm so crowded its hard (not impossible so try) to upgrade.
190dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 11:13
Has the innings limit always been this hard to get to or are starters going less innings with increase in hitting in recent years? Currently there is only one team projected to surpass the innings limit and I am 25 innings off pace and have the 4th most innings pitched (due in part to some recent streaming).

Not to be ironed out during the season but I would be in favor of reducing the cap by 50 innings so that we would become less dependent on streaming and who throws the most innings and more so having the best pitchers without needing to stream/carry a bench full of SPs.
191Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 12:53
Or just add another roster slot
192Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 02:35
I do believe we've always been at 1400 IP. I wouldn't be opposed to lowering it a smidge. Bean is the league leader in IP and he's on pace to come in just below threshold. Last season we had 4 people go over 1400 IP but I know at least 2, maybe 3 of them were streaming and loaded up on the last day.

In fact it looks like most seasons we have 3-4 go over. But from the numbers I'd have to say most of them are streaming pitchers and stocking up on their last day (1430+ IP). This tells me that people are working hard at just meeting the cap and it should probably be brought down some. I'd be fine with 1350.
193Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 02:41
Btw, I noticed when I was looking that up - the current record for most strikeouts in a season by a pitching staff for our league is 1450 set last year by Astade. If I hit the IP cap I'm currently on pace for 1597 K's. Maybe another day soon I'll take a look at the record highs and lows for each category and post them all up.
194Khahan
      ID: 98341911
      Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 12:34
2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 2010 2009* 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 Manager
R 973 904 868 904 898 883 917 839 882 905 891 855 897 GO
HR 297 251 214 227 273 262 241 246 219 215 240 257 240 Da Bomb
RBI 959 876 801 842 894 892 890 841 838 872 848 874 855 Da Bomb
SB 156 180 161 150 160 169 167 164 146 167 182 144 126 Little Weasel
BA 0.289 0.291 0.28 2.82 0.28 0.288 .279 (3) 0.295 0.293 .288(2) 0.296 0.29 0.292 Piccolos
W 106 95 105 90 99 108 105 100 107 98 99 101 87 Khahan
S 182 148 192 146 163 140 149 147 174 159 149 143 149 BH/WG
K 1450 1420 1368 1336 1333 1320 1345 1329 1347 1256 1200 1351 1185 Astade
ERA 0.345 3.06 3.05 3.18 3.14 3.16 3.17 3.33 3.47 3.27 3.57 3.29 3.33 dpr
Whip 1.18 1.10 1.07 1.14 1.12 1.16 1.18 1.23 (2) 1.24 1.19 1.24(2) 1.18 1.18 Holt
total 98 102 97.5 95 100 93 109.5 94.5 110 106 93 98 83.5 Holt
R 737 669 702 696 746 680 735 706 694 689 691 644 652 Wiggs*
HR 191 161 137 176 179 161 173 177 135 156 129 123 166 Wiggs*
RBI 667 676 659 703 674 638 730 729 623 689 638 546 644 Wiggs*
SB 61 70 87 83 87 112 64 76 68 59 79 61 47 Wiggs*
BA 0.251 0.256 0.260 0.263 0.252 0.256 0.257 0.265 0.263 .281(2) 0.266 0.270 0.27 Astade
W 69 65 66 76 68 67 74 67 73 (2) 71 62 53 66 Barilko
S 33 38 22 32 21 26 12 10 9 6 3 59 11 Rev
K 1060 1095 1125 1046 1078 947 1090 904 924 903 844 678 948 Astade
ERA 4.54 4.29 3.81 3.91 4.07 4.29 4.22 4.53 4.85 4.71 5.00 4.51 4.36(2) Wiggs
Whip 1.37 1.35 1.28 1.28 1.38 1.29 1.36 1.47 1.43 1.44 1.42 1.43 1.39 Wiggs
total 27 21 31.5 31.5 29.5 26 29.5 33 39 26 23 21.5 27.5 PD
195Khahan
      ID: 98341911
      Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 12:43
Explanation for post 194. I was going to just record the record best and worst in each category but as I went I realized a little historical perspective would make for a more robust set of data points. So I took the high and low from each season and recorded them on the table above.

A number highlighted in blue is the all-time best. A number highlighted in red is the all-time worst. The manager name in the last column is the record holder.

2009 has an * next to it. That is because this is the last season in which we had 1 utility spot. Starting in 2010 we added a utility spot. Not surprisingly all the lows for cumulative hitting stats came before 2009. All the highs but 1 came after (SB).

No manager owns both the best single season and the worst single season (I came closest with wins. The high is mine and second lowest is mine).

A number in parenthesis is the total number of people tied for that high or low for that season (record 3).

2005 had 5 record lows set.
2016 had 4 record highs set.
2006 and 2016 are the only seasons with both a record high and a low set.
2007 had a low batting average of .281 which 2 people tied for. This would have been a high in 3 other seasons (2014, 2012, 2010). This is the only time a low from 1 season would have been a high in another season.
196holt
      ID: 32645623
      Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 01:09
Re 195: Looks like Astade currently has the record high and low for K's.
197Khahan
      ID: 14840208
      Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 09:40
You're right. As of this chart Astade has the unique position of having the record high and low in a single category.

198Astade
      ID: 508132010
      Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 11:13
Khahan you have too much time on your hands...
199Khahan
      ID: 20833219
      Thu, Sep 21, 2017, 10:33
Before we got sidetracked with historical data DPR raised the question about an IP cap for next season. I think we're all seasoned enough players and know this league's roster limits well enough that we don't need to spend 100 posts debating if it should be this amount or that amount. I'm just going to call for a vote here.

Do you think we should change the IP cap to:

a) 1400 - leave it where it is
b) 1350
c) 1300
d) 1250
e) 1450 raise it

I added the more standard options out there and for completeness and fairness sake even added the option for a raise.

My vote is option B.

200Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Thu, Sep 21, 2017, 16:38
B
201astade
      ID: 487112420
      Thu, Sep 21, 2017, 21:14
C
202dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Fri, Sep 22, 2017, 08:23
B
203Perm Dude
      ID: 49829217
      Fri, Sep 22, 2017, 10:14
A
204loki
      ID: 15046816
      Fri, Sep 22, 2017, 19:32
B
205holt
      ID: 32645623
      Fri, Sep 22, 2017, 22:31
A
Nothing wrong with B, but A for historical sake.
206GO
      ID: 565491620
      Fri, Sep 22, 2017, 23:42
A
207ttucowboy
      ID: 8550318
      Sat, Sep 23, 2017, 08:50
A
208dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 10:09
Looks like it is going to be a very exciting finish for the top teams. For the last few weeks I have been viewing my upside/downside in each of the categories to see how much I can increase my total but I figured it would be interesting to do it for my team and others as we head into the final week. In some cases it is hard to determine what is possible

DPR
Rs:no change
HRs: +1 possible
RBIs: +1 possible
SBs:+1.5 possible
AVG: No change expected
Ws: No change expected but category can be volatile
SVs:-1 possible (likely)
Ks: No change expected
ERA: +1 possible/minus2 possible
WHIP:+2 possible/minus1 possible
Overall: +5.5/-4

Khahan
Rs:+1 possible
Hrs: No change likely
RBIs:-1 possible
SBs: No change likely
AVG: +1 Possible
Pitching: No changes expected
Total:+2/-1

DaBomb
Rs:No change
HR:No change likely
RBI: No change
SBs: +.5/-.5
BA: No change
Ws:+.5/-.5
SVs:+.5/-.5
Ks: No change
ERA:-1
WHIP:-1
Total:+1.5/-3.5

So it looks like my team has the most categories where points can be gain or lost while Khahan score is likely to remain largely unchanged. While any order is possible, it seems Khahan is likely to stay in top 2 as both DaBomb and I would need to reach out upside to match his likely mid/low90s score. I day where a team hits 6 HRs or picks up 3 wins could also prove my calculations wrong as I was assuming 2 wins or 4 HRs to be likely to not change but those margins are definitely still possible with a week to go (and maybe even a day).

Holt and Loki could both definitely spoil for a podium finish but without running the numbers it seems unlikely they could pull off a title.
209Khahan
      ID: 24823259
      Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 10:23
That's what I've been looking at too, DPR. I've stayed very active with pitching working K's and W's as much as possible just to make sure I don't lose those 2 points to Holt. Because those 2 points are going to matter.
210Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 23:24
Holy shit. This late in the season nobody's ERA should change that much in 1 night. Overall ERA for the season went from 3.25 to 3.33!!
211dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 16:32
And you didn't even lose any points...My pitchers blowing up last night likely cost 2-4 points in the standings if I am not able to finsh strong in the ratio categories. That will likely be the difference for me as the hitting categories seem to have primarily resolved themselves for me (steals points likely cant be gained like I was hoping a couple days ago; HRs however looks more plausible).
212Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 10:09
What happens with a tie?

Congrats on great seasons Dabomb Squad, homerunners123 and Khahan
213Khahan
      ID: 30915210
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 11:15
Congratulations to Da Bomb and DPR on a nail biting finish to an exciting season. A single HR and SB and a .001 difference in BA did me in. With my hitting basically dying in September. It certainly made for an exciting finish to a great year.

Da Bomb and DPR will split 1st and 2nd prize pool. I'll take the third place prize pool and just roll it over to next year.

And congratz to all others. Especially Holt and Loki who duked it out to the bitter end and tied for forth. We've had ties in the past but I don't think we've ever had a tie for first and I don't believe we've ever had 2 ties in a single season.

Congratulations to all on another great year of fake baseball!!
214dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 12:35
It definitely was exciting following the final day. I didn't think I stood much of a chance so I threw all the streamed pitchers I had compiled into my lineup in a desperation attempt. Somehow they combined for a sub2 ERA, a sub1 WHIP and 2 Wins to give me the edge in each of these categories by the narrowest of margins (I won ERA 3.669 to 3.670!). Still as the pitchers were pulled from their games, I still needed a bit more help to pull into a tie. Most hitters had been removed as well, but luckily Michael Taylor came through for Khahan (as well as Ozuna just a couple innings earlier) to steal half a point from DaBomb in the late innings. Unfortunately Merrifield lined out to end one of the last games going when either a HR or SB would have given me the league outright.

Congrats to the rest of the league and look forward to next season.
215Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 16:00
Really fun season and I'm somewhat relieved it's over after my (over?)management the past couple weeks. Nice to tie GO with 4 league championships and move past holt's 3.

My team got hot over the past month and the last 2 days I believe were the only consecutive days I was in first. Same case for me in RIBC AAA. Congrats to dpr on a big final day and finishing as a co-champ and to Khahan on a somewhat hard luck 3rd with how strong his team was all year.

I'd also like to thank Khahan for motivating my team with posts 140 & 174, and dpr's 208. It looks like my team was at 90.5 or 91 then and I ended with 95.

I also vote A fwiw.
216Khahan
      ID: 11947215
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 16:47
For what its worth it seems like the vote called for in post 199 is settled. No change has 5 votes. A change to B has 4 votes. 2 votes still not in. Even if both of those people vote for B, we don't have a majority voting for a specific change.


217loki
      ID: 15046816
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 19:33
Congratulations to dpr and Da Bomb for winning and to Khahan on almost getting there. Great season, and it was fun being competitive for a change.

Technical question:
Can the players picked up on 10/1/2017 be legally assigned to the teams since as waiver claims they cannot be rostered until after our season was over?
218Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 19:38
We're going to go by what the system says the final rosters were. Whatever yahoo defaults too.

For example Beltre was picked up by Holt on 10/1. If next year when we pull up the archived teams Beltre shows on his team as of the last day, he can keep beltre. If beltre doesn't show on his team, he can't.

Keep It Simple.
219holt
      ID: 32645623
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 22:49
Congrats DPR, Dabomb, and Khahan. I had a lot of potential points in play over the last month of the season. Unfortunately Billy Hamilton got hurt, too many 0 for 4's from my supposedly good hitters, and too many implosions from "ace" pitchers. Especially on Saturday when Weaver, Kershaw, and McCullers all caved in simultaneously. I think I lost 6 points just in whip and ERA in a matter of an hour or two, and in the process gave dpr some points. I think I got within about 2 or 3 points from 3rd but then crapped out. It's alright though. At one point in late June I was down to about 60 points as issues like Kershaw and Marte were taking their toll. You just have to keep grinding. I don't feel bad about 4th place. If it's good enough for the Flint Tropics it's good enough for me. Looking forward to next season!

4th place!
220GO
      ID: 565491620
      Tue, Oct 03, 2017, 22:36
Congrats to Da Bomb and dpr. Our first tie I think? Every time you think you've seen it all... i guess we just add 1st and 2nd place winnings together and split evenly?

Tree is the only one not to pay and has a balance of 40 so i emailed him.

Wiggs took last and the extra 10 owed -- so he gets to pay for Kafenatid next year. PD had it two years running...
221Khahan
      ID: 2911322610
      Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 11:56
Yahoo as announced they will be adding a Shohei Ohtani/pitcher and a Shohei Ohtani/Hitter. I believe this is how most of the major outlets will end up handling him. This leaves us with 3 potential options that I see:




1. Hitter and player are 2 separate entities and must be drafted and treated separately. This is easiest to track but honestly I think greatly devalues him. Part of his allure and value comes in 1 guy delivering pitching and hitting stats.

2. In the draft hitter and pitcher are 1 person and when you draft one the other gets drafted, losing your last round pick. But once the season starts they are 2 separate entities and can be dropped/traded handled as individual players. This gives him the most value and the manager the most flexibility but seems a bit odd.

3. In the draft hitter and player are 1 person and when you draft one the other gets drafted, losing your last round pick. Once the season starts, they are still considered 1 person, taking up 2 roster spots. But they must be traded, dropped/added together. This makes the most sense but has the most possibility of causing problems. Especially in an add/drop situation. While it improves his draft value it may actually depress his trade value as managers receiving Ohtani need 2 roster spots for him.



For keepers I think it makes sense to go along consistently with whichever option you pick above. Options 1 and 2 means he is 1 keeper slot for a hitter and 1 keeper slot for a pitcher. Option 3 means you keep him with 1 slot as both a hitter and a pitcher.

Any thoughts?
222Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 19:29
#1 probably. I don't see him having much value as a hitter anyway as I don't think he would be playing close to everyday.
223dpr
      ID: 26244820
      Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 20:16
I don't see 2 making much sense in a keeper league. As DaBomb said he likely doesn't hold much value as a hitter so going into next year hitter Ohtani would not be kept (if he even stayed on a roster all year). This would lead us to using the option 1 after the first year anyways.

My instincts says 1 as it is the simplest. My only concern is that if next year Y! combines Ohtani into one player that puts us in a bit of a predicament where I imagine we could give that added benefit to the owner of pitcher Ohtani.

For 3, does this mean that to keep pitcher Ohtani you would need to keep hitter Ohtani as well using 2 slots? This would take away alot of his appeal and almost make him a liability. What if hitter ohtani never materializes into a player who gets ABs.
224Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 08:19
Option 3 he is 1 player so if you keep him it is 1 slot to keep. He takes up 2 roster spots because that is what Yahoo has coded. You just declare Ohtani as a keeper.

225dpr
      ID: 302321312
      Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 08:37
I still may not think hitter Ohtani is worth rostering
226loki
      ID: 15046816
      Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 14:39
I am not sure which option I would prefer, and therefore will abstain when this comes up for a vote.
However it is THIRTY-FIVE DAYS until spring training. Football is nearly over, I do not follow basketball or hockey, so am cannot wait for baseball and more importantly Fantasy Baseball to begin.
I am putting you all on notice that the Zephyrs are taking it all in 2018!!!!
227Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 14:26
gotta be 1. the others just create potential logistical nightmares.
228Khahan
      ID: 2911322610
      Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 15:33
If that's your only reason for taking #1 Tree, a) thank you as GO and are the ones dealing with the logistical nightmares and 2) even being aware of those nightmares I think GO and I are willing to do a bit of extra work to make those options work. Otherwise they wouldn't be presented.

If your votes is still for option 1, great. But wanted to throw that out there just in case.
229Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 18:01
i realize that, but as someone who has been a commish before, it's a lot of work already. i wouldn't want to ask someone to be forced to do even more work.
230Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Jan 16, 2018, 20:24
As always I'm looking to deal. My probable order for keepers:

Trea Turner
Manny Machado
Max Scherzer
Corey Kluber
Aaron Judge
Marcell Ozuna
Andrew Benintendi/Stephen Strasburg
Dallas Kuechel
Kimbrel/Knebel
Justin Smoak
Tyler Glasnow
Ian Happ


Mix and match from those guys as you see fit in offers for draft picks or keeper upgrades.
231holt
      ID: 54128513
      Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 14:28
Not sure if I read all of the ohtani discussion but I think that if you draft him you should be able to just roster him as a pitcher but retain sole rights to add him as a hitter (so he would be off limits to other owners but you aren't forced to use two slots on him if you don't want to).
232loki
      ID: 15046816
      Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 16:40
Available for draft picks:
Nelson Cruz Sea - OF
Lorenzo Cain Mil - OF
Mike Moustakas KC - 3B
Yasiel Puig LAD - OF
Matt Olson Oak - 1B,OF
Roberto Osuna Tor - RP
Ken Giles Hou - RP
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