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0 Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2023 Regular Season Discussion

Posted by: Species
- SuperDude [07724916] Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 11:02

Welcome to DRAFT SEASON for G20 2023. Starting this a little early with our previous thread being temporarily disabled.

Draft season schedule:
- Keepers are due TODAY at Noon ET
- Prospect keepers are due TOMORROW, Tuesday the 14th, at Noon ET
- Prospect Draft starts Wednesday the 15th, Noon ET
- Draftime will be opened by Saturday the 18th
- Four hour draft clock will start Sunday the 19th

A few reminders for this year:

1) Four IL spots are available to Keepers, Prospects and "10th keepers" ONLY. Please be cognizant of the player restriction and manage accordingly. We will be self-policing this - if you see something awry, please let a Commissioner know.

2) Up to 10 COVID IL spots are available to ANY player on the COVID list. Hopefully the days of massive COVID outbreaks - or even too many individual days - are completely behind us. But, since the site allows it I have extended it. This does require the player to specifically be on MLB's COVID list and be recognized / designated by Yahoo. This will also be self-policing.

3) The Shohei Ohtani exception. Please be reminded, and for clarification for our new managers, youngroman has owned Ohtani since our days hosted by ESPN. When we made the move to Yahoo, we wrote in an exception to allow BOTH the hitter and the pitcher to be treated as 'one player' for keeper and roster purposes. youngroman may drop and re-pick up Ohtani in Yahoo as many times as he wants in order to have something resembling the roster flexibility they had at ESPN. No other teams may pick up either the hitter or the pitcher. NOTE: youngroman (or any team he is traded to) must ALWAYS roster at least one Ohtani to retain these rights.

4) Protected prospects are shown as free agents in Yahoo - please be cognizant. You know when something is too good to be true....then it usually is? Please be aware of who is on the prospect list before picking up players that might have been prospect-eligible.

5) Trade Deadline is August 24th. Our rules indicate that our trade deadline is the last day available in August on our host site. That is August 24th this year.

6) Once the Supplemental Draft is over and the league year has started, we revert back to our 7 votes to veto a trade rule. Thank you Trade Committee for your diligence this offseason.

Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.]
      ID: 31142221
      Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 14:26
127Blue hen
      ID: 410452818
      Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 23:33
Rule Changes and a Challenge

Iíd like to bring this up publicly.

Iíd like to formally request the trade committee get together and review Pete and Thumperís trade of p picks for s picks. I donít need names but Iíd like it to be asserted that at least one neutral party found this non-objectionable.

Iíd like to propose a rule that two managers cannot trade with each other more than once in a month. If you trade on the 5th, the next trade cannot be accepted until the 6th.

Iíd like to propose a rule that all trades must be discussed with another manager in G20 to ensure itís fair or close to it. When challenged, the name must be produced or the trade wonít go through. The discussion can happen after consummation (but shouldnít), and if thereís a challenge, an impartial managed must agree and give their thoughts or the trade wonít go through.

Iíd like to re-propose a rule that the champion only gets to keep 8 players. Repeat champions only keep 7, and so forth. Co-champions are champions.

Iíd like to propose a change to the moratorium rule, ending the moratorium the day after opening day.

Iím open to a lower moves cap number, higher minimums, and even tri-weekly waivers/FAAB.

This season has not been as enjoyable as the last two.
      ID: 39230821
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 08:55
Iím not clear why trading frequently is a problem. Our recent trade was for 2024/2025 picks, what is the point in having us wait a month to punch it thru? TTU and I talk often and G20 trades come up. Itís fun.

The latest trade is in line with his rebuild and my win now. I am generally against adding layers of review (coming from someone who participates a lot in the offseason trade committee), but also believe that concerns should be vetted appropriately and thru a right channel as members of the league have posted/agreed to a dislike to the public shaming on trades lately. A trade of yours was vetoed and reworked in the offseason, I know thereís precedent for this.

This is ďDynastyĒ so Iím against lowering keepers for the winner. Weíre all working to build a dynasty and I donít like the thought that getting 2nd is better than getting 1st.

Iíd be for moving the moratorium up to opening day.

I think mins would need to be lowered if we move to tri-weekly adds. I too am open to the idea, but not strongly for or against either
      ID: 31142221
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 10:26
127: Wow ó To say reading the first part of that post is disappointing would be a massive understatement, especially coming from.

I didnít expect to be having to defend in the first year of my return but here we are. Letís unpack the trades Iíve made with Thump:

2023 S 2.06, 2023 S 3.06
Jeffrey Springs, 2023 P 1.20

2023 S 1.07
2024 P1, 2024 P5

Bryce Elder, JQuijada
2024 P3

2024 S1, 2024 S13
Luisangel Acuna, 2024 P4, 2024 S6, 2024 S9

George Kirby
Bo Naylor, 2025 P2, 2025 P4

Giancarlo Stanton
Reese Olson
Jake Cronenworth
Freddy Peralta

2024 S2, 2024 S3, 2024 S4
2025 P1

I left out some of the late pick exchanges, that kept picks even, with the purpose focusing on the value exchanged in each trade. Thump and I have been a good fit because of our timelines (win now vs rebuild). Each deal fits our timelines. Each deal has material value being exchanged from both sides.

Fact is you, BH, want to have your cake (compete now) and eat it too (not have to give up any material future value). That sounds like your problem, not the leagueís problem.

Outside of that, I would support anything that eliminates stashing. Daily waivers that run in the morning, unable to claim a player if they have NA or IL next to their name. If Yahoo would allow it, those would be beneficial changes. This year, Iíve been on a mission to disband the notion that you canít hit mins and have an eye to the future simultaneously. Currently on pace to complete that mission, but do see the current ďWild westĒ setup as an opportunity for improvement for the league. Ultimately, eliminating the ability to stash will lead to a multitude of positive impacts for the league.
131Blue hen
      ID: 410452818
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 11:50
To be clear, I think Pete and Thump are great managers and even better people. I do think that particular trade is unbalanced and would love it someone outside the trade would weigh in. I think the trade committee is the fairest path.

I also think this many trades between two managers is bad for the league, even if not nefarious.
      ID: 39230821
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 12:14
You can ask all the other managers, I personally try to trade with pretty much everyone. Iíd only see trading with the same team as potentially a problem if they exclusively tried to trade with each other. I think more activity is a GOOD thing for a league.
      ID: 31142221
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 12:23
To be clear, I donít have an issue if someone objects. If we all agreed on valuations, that would be boring and quite frankly odd. With that said, I am beginning to understand why itís difficult to trade here. Many backseat managers are ready to pounce at a momentís notice. Constructive discussion is important, and keeps the league lively, but I donít feel the need to be babysat. If the league doesnít trust me to make the best decisions as I see fit for my team, why am I in the league? For what itís worth, I have no desire to leave and am thrilled to be back. The question itself is a fair one though all things considered.

And if weíre going to go full transparency here, the proposed committee should also take into consideration the manager raising an objection turned down the following:

2024 S3
2024 S4
2024 S5
2024 S6


2024 S1
2024 S12
2024 S13
2024 S14

Very similarly structured type of deal. S Picks have a wide range of interpretation in terms of value and where a manager is at with their respective timeline. Iím confident in saying the trade I made with Thump will bring more value to my team than the trade BH rejected. Also emphasizes a point that this feels like sour grapes. I cannot comprehend how someone could find a trade unfair because they werenít willing to pay a price their competitor was.
      ID: 31142221
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 12:34
In addition, I do agree exclusive trading with one team would be bad for the league. Take a look at my trading track record though ever since I rejoined the league. Iíve made trades with BMD, Thump, Tree, WG, Tosh, Lyman, BH, YR, Taxman, Fosten and Matt G. Iíve also had discussions with others not mentioned that, while it didnít materialize into a trade, were still fun and productive discussions.

All of that to say I take great exception to the notion that is being levied here.
      ID: 34537213
      Wed, Jul 05, 2023, 18:19
Pete is selling and no one else is buying besides Thumper, Lyman and BH. Iím entertaining deals but Iím not actively pursuing.

I donít see any of them as vetoable trades. Iíd have made the deal Thumper made on the last trade but itís not that lopsided and for Pete it makes sense. Early bird gets the worm and Thumper obviously beats down on everyoneís doors.
      ID: 24100310
      Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 21:24
Sending Wesneski down
137Jon Dowd
      ID: 46143111
      Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 13:55

DK Receives:
Juan Soto
Edouard Julien

Dowd Receives:
Tyler Glasnow
Ketel Marte
Jazz Chisholm Jr.
Cedric Mullins
Jordan Lawlar (p)
138Jon Dowd
      ID: 46143111
      Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 13:57
Also I'm sending Nolan Jones down first time
      ID: 416181312
      Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 14:58
137: Confirmed
      ID: 89402220
      Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 16:53
Calling up Encarnacion-Strand for the first time.
      ID: 34537213
      Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 00:44
Youngroman, Fujinama is my prospect. Please drop.
      ID: 515013
      Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 11:41
done. my bad.

for whatever reason Yahoo is losing players from my watch list. I am 100% sure that my watch list contained all prospects and when I picked Fujinami up he was not on my watch list. this gets frustrating, as it happened a 2nd time this season that I picked up a prospect.
now I need to go through all of them again to see who is missing as well.
      ID: 416181312
      Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 12:28
Calling up Edouard Julien for the first time
      ID: 14915618
      Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 16:39
Sending down Kodai Senga for the first time.
      ID: 34537213
      Sat, Jul 29, 2023, 14:47
Lynn trade includes
Bmd sends his 2024 4th round supp pick to WG
WG sends his 2024 10th round supp pick to Bmd
      ID: 89402220
      Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 10:42
      ID: 057721710
      Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 20:30
So there are a handful of teams making a push towards the top. And a handful of teams racing towards the bottom.

But a whole bunch of teams middling around. Is there a way to make those teams more interesting in finishing out the season??

Maybe the team that finishes 10th ... gets the 4th pick in each round, rather than the 11th pick.

Just a random thought from a middling team.
      ID: 0531518
      Wed, Aug 02, 2023, 17:37
Sending down Taj Bradley for the second time.
      ID: 39230821
      Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 15:30
@<147> I posted an idea on discord to kind of reward more teams for consistently strong performances even if not 1st for the year. Iíd love something like that.

From discord:
On limited competitive teams, Iíd love to have a ďdynasty championĒ in addition to the regular season champ. Dynasty champ could be like a rolling 3 year finish. Someone who finished 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd in a 3 year span could be the champ depending on how well the other finishers placed. Some pts system like 1st place gets 20 pts for the year, 2nd 19 pts, etc. this could encourage more teams to compete because atm it feels like ďif youíre not first youíre lastĒ
150Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 23:16
Just had to post this. As you know, OBP is my worst category. Here are my day by day OBPs, starting Aug 18:

.389, .306, .459, .433, .237, .278, .405, .421, .528, .351, .341, .425, .513, .000 (3 players), .432, .485, .512, .469.

Pretty good run, donít you think?
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 19:32
The following prospects have exceeded limits, are on their respective teams' rosters and have been removed from the prospect list:

Elly de la Cruz
Jordan Walker
Bobby Miller has 107 innings and will go over next start
Tanner Bibee
Francisco Alvarez
Edouard Joulien (295 ab at this moment)
Masataka Yoshida

The following prospects have exceeded limits and are NOT on their teams' respective rosters. As such, unless called up, they MAY REMAIN on the prospect list through the end of the season. At that point, they will be called up, removed from the prospect list and must be kept in their teams' respective 9 keepers (if they want to be kept in the first place). These players are noted in bold in the Constitution:

Shintaro Fujinami
Hayden Wesneski
Kodai Senga
CJ Abrams
Nolan Jones
Brett Baty
      ID: 10031913
      Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 13:46
With 10 days to go...
4 teams have reached the GP minimum.
13 teams have reached the IP minimum.
Further supporting the reason to vote on these limits separately.
      ID: 28191121
      Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 14:08
I have zero sympathy for anyone not hitting minimums. Itís not hard to do with some reasonable diligence applied throughout the year. Also worth noting Iím on track to hit minimums and have been stashing with an eye for the future along the way.
      ID: 158412310
      Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 11:42
Sending down Royce Lewis for the first time.
      ID: 89402220
      Sun, Sep 24, 2023, 10:18
Sending down Eury Perez
      ID: 89402220
      Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 08:55
Sending down Christian Encarnacion-Strand
      ID: 28191121
      Sun, Oct 01, 2023, 20:08
Congrats Thump!!

Impressive dominating performance. 💪🏼 Youíve put the work in and are seeing the fruits of that labor. Youíre a beast of a competitor and an even better person. Enjoy your well-deserved win!
      ID: 4093129
      Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 10:31
Congrats Thumqer!
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 16:02
CONGRATULATIONS THUMPER on an amazing run to go back-to-back G20 titles -- only the 4th time this has happened in our 20-year history! Our Founder Ref won the first three titles, even with a tie in the founding year it still counts.

I don't even have to explain why he won. Just look atop the best WAR seasons and MVP voting lists and his team will be there. That said, he traded away nearly everything in the cupboard to repeat. Sure having 5 MVP candidates goes a long way, but can he work his magic for a third year in a row? We shall see!

Believe it or not, this was NOT the most dominating win in G20 history. That honor belongs to the 2nd place blue hen, who posted an ungodly 194 points during one of this back-to-back seasons. Serious props to blue hen for making this season AT ALL interesting. His 180 points is undoubtedly the highest point total for a non-winner in league history.

Huge props to Nerfherders who secured his best finish ever with a strong 165 point finish, which in several years would have won this league. He rode the likes of Matt Olson's unbelievable season combined with terrific years from Him, Gunnar, Yelich (via trade)Bellinger, Happ, Bobby Miller, Michael King and Tanner Bibee to this finish.

Guru placed a strong fourth riding Corey Seager's near-MVP year and a seeming band of misfit toys to a strong 150 point finish despite losing ace Shane McClanahan and down-ish years from Springer and JRam. Resurgent efforts from Eflin and Civale helped and a deadly bullpen got him well into the money.

I would have thought fifth place bmd was toast after Tatis' woes, but Semien was a beast, Elly showed amazingly and Tatis still produced huge.

Many teams have put together some nice young talent and are on the upswing. It takes time for it to gel but I can see where they are going. I hope it is an exciting offseason.

I will get to some year-end administrative items as soon as I can.
160Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 16:04
Congrats Thump! 190 points is the highest total in 8 years, and the first repeat since that same year.

Congrats to all teams on another successful year.
161Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 16:06
Vote for Manager of the Year

Starting this year, weíll vote for a manager of the year, the manager who did the best improving their team, performing or working under adversity. You can vote anyone except the champion or yourself. Please send who you vote for to Species. This weíll be added to the constitution next to the winners.

      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 06:11

1. Thumpers 20 20 20 20 20 15 20 19 16 20 190
2. Blue Hen 18 17 17 18 16 20 16 20 20 18 180
3. Nerfherders 19 18 19 16 19 12 13 18 18 13 165
4. RotoGuru 16 15 16 11 13 19 18 11 15 16 150
5. beastiemiked 17 12 11.5 17 18 18 15 17 13 9 147.5
6. Lyman Bostock 10 11 13 9 19 11 13.5 17 14 17 19 143.5
7. FW House Martins 13 6 15 6 17 2 14 10 12 11 106
8. Donkey Kong 1.5 5 4 4 15 16.5 9.5 16 19 15 105.5
9. youngroman's Luschen 14 19 14 9 3 4 6 12 11 12 104
10. GangGreen 15 16 18 14 9 9.5 9.5 5.5 4 2 102.5
11. Wazaaap Guy 9 10 13 5 4 11 19 15 6 8 100
12. Munson Mobsters 12 14 10 13 14 8 12 8 1 1 93
13. Jon Dowd 4 2 5 8 6 6 8 7 10 17 73
14. Endangered Species 8 4 6 12 5 6 2 5.5 9 14 71.5
15. Tax Cuts 1.5 8 2 1 8 16.5 11 9 7 6 70
16. ttucowboy 5 11 11.5 2 10 6 1 4 5 7 62.5
17. Norfolk Neptunes G20 10 1 8 7 12 1 4 13 2 4 62
18. GO's Black Sox 7 9 7 15 7 3 3 3 3 3 60
19. Marty McFlyer 3 3 1 10 1 9.5 5 1 14 10 57.5
20. VampireWeekend 6 7 3 3 2 13.5 7 2 8 5 56.5
      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 06:37
The following teams failed to meet our 1375 Games Played threshold:

Species (3) = 1 demerit
Jon Dowd (12) = 1 demerit
Taxman (47) = 4 demerits
DK (115) = 8 demerits

Only Bobo failed to meet our 1200 innings pitched threshold (87) = 6 demerits.

With our 2 demerit waiver, that means that the following demerits will apply:

Taxman - 2 demerits
Bobo - 4 demerits
DK - 6 demerits

Demerits are applied to the lowest / worst finisher first, resulting in the following base draft grid order:

1. Vampire Weekend
2. Great One
3. Matt G
4. ttucowboy
5. Bobo
6. Species
7. Taxman
8. Jon Dowd
9. Fosten
15.(Vacated Team)
18.Nerfherders hen

Demerits are only applied down to lottery teams at pick 14, so in reality only 1 penalty spot could be assessed to DK. Nice.

Bobo's demerits were applied first, and he fell below Taxman. Then Taxman's demerits were applied and he fell his 2 spots but in reality each team lost 1 less spot because of another team's demerits. Happens a lot.

Per our rules, our Draft Lotteries are to happen within 30 days after the end of the season. I will impose upon Guru, as usual, as our steward for the draft lotteries.
      ID: 07724916
      Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 07:05
I have refreshed both Draft Grids, pre-lottery. They are up to date with one exception, previously noted in Post 122:

GO has traded his Supp 3rd twice. Once to me in 2022 and a second time to blue hen on March 14th. GO has the ability to rectify this by:

1) Reworking a trade to the mutual satisfaction of he and blue hen. blue hen is not compelled to do so.
1b) I guess he could rework his trade with me too, leaving his 3rd to fulfill his trade to bh.

2) Acquiring another 3rd from someone else.

3) If neither 1 nor 2 happen, the pick would default to GO's next highest pick.
      ID: 556321410
      Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 13:57
As I am traveling for the next week-and-a-half, I will plan to run the draft lotteries (Supplemental and prospect) on Thursday October 19.

Results will be posted here when it is completed.
166Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 09:54
For Goís pick, I assume it needs to be higher than his current pick. He shouldnít be able to trade for 3.20 and call that the same as 3.2.
      ID: 556321410
      Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 10:11
2024 Draft lottery results:

Pick 1: Matt G
Pick 2: Great One
Pick 3: Jon Dowd

Pick 1: Matt G
Pick 2: Vampire Weekend
Pick 3: Great One

Detailed supporting worksheet is at
168Matt G
      ID: 32920219
      Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 10:20
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 17:06
166: Debate the validity of this precedence if you wish, but the answer to your question is 'no'. Historically any replacement pick in the same round has been allowed.

I guarantee that you have benefited by this admittedly relaxed policy.

Technically you also erred in accepting a trade for a pick that he did not have, so you share in a component of the consequence.
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 17:13
166 / 169: Problem solved. Species and Great One agree to amend the 6-4-2022 trade. Instead of a 2024 3/6 swap, we agree to push the same trade out to 2025.

That makes the bh/GO trade for GO's 3rd now valid.
      ID: 288332716
      Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 09:57
Thanks Species and sorry for the extra work.
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Nov 24, 2023, 12:44
As noted in Discord, both Bobo and Vampire Weekend have elected to not return to G20. We thank them both for their efforts.

With Lyman gone as well, that leaves us recruiting for 3 new managers. In good news, that means that our new comrades may execute the 'Expansion Draft' option and choose their teams from the entire pool of players. While that dilutes the one monster team that has been vacated, it does allow for an exciting way to put your own stamp on your team right away.

That said, I have abolished the messed up draft pick system -- basically we will let the last person in the draft inherit the draft capital of the team of their choice.
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Nov 24, 2023, 12:45
Expansion draft - Major League Rosters:

CJ Abrams
Tim Anderson
Aaron Ashby
Chris Bassitt
Christian Bethancourt
Mark Canha
Griffin Canning
Willi Castro
Matt Chapman
Jhoan Duran
Bryce Elder
Nathan Eovaldi
Thairo Estrada
Bailey Falter
Wilmer Flores
Dylan Floro
Jason Foley
Jake Fraley
JP France
Wander Franco
Adolis Garcia
Brusdar Graterol
Josiah Gray
Trent Grisham
Robbie Grossman
Josh Hader
Garrett Hampson
Michael Harris
Liam Hendriks
Christian Javier
Jerred Kelenic
Merrill Kelly
Yusei Kikuchi
George Kirby
Alex Lange
DJ LeMahieu
Reynaldo Lopez
MIchael Lorenzen
Seth Lugo
Matt Manning
Jorge Mateo
Matt McClain
Jose Miranda
Elehuis Montero
Jordan Montgomery
Christopher Morel
Gabriel Moreno
Joe Musgrove
Lars Nootbar
Martin Perez
Evan Phillips
Luke Raley
JT Realmuto
Grayson Rodriguez
Julio Rodriguez
Eduardo Rodriguez
Brent Rooker
Joe Ryan
Jorge Soler
Giancarlo Stanton
Spencer Strider
Eugenio Suarez
Leody Tavares
Spencer Torkelson
Ezekiel Tovar
MIguel Vargas
Daulton Varsho
Alex Verdugo
Christian Walker
Jordan Walker
Joey Wendle
Hayden Wesneski
Garrett Whitlock


Kevin Alcantara
Henry Davis
Daniel Espino
Jackson Jobe
Jack Leiter
Matt Mervis
Logan O'Hoppe
Andrew Painter
Sixto Sanchez
      ID: 251182810
      Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 11:08
🔔Off-season sales first come first served!🔔
Available in combination or for comparable talent:
1B Freddie Freeman
2B Ozzie Albies
SP Zack Wheeler
SP Jesus Luzardo

Keepers who will be moved:
C Sean Murphy
OF Chas Mccormick
CL Raisel Iglesias
CL Clay Holmes

Cheaper than them (trade a pick for them):
SS JP Crawford
1B/2B Justin Turner
      ID: 251182810
      Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 16:47

🚨 Trade Alert 🚨

ttucowboy trades:

2024 P 1.20

Thumper trades:

Camilo Doval
      ID: 28191121
      Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 16:47
175 confirmed
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