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Subject: The Unofficial RIFCXXX# Cross-League Championship
Posted by: culdeus
- [109401920] Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 22:41
Ok, here's a thought. I posed this as a possibility last year to sort of merge all interested parties into one playoffs with different divisions. Well, I'd like to run a prototype of this with the RIFC leagues.
As far as I can tell there are four leagues this year.
RIFC
RIFCAAA 1&2
RIFCAA
Here's what I'm thinking I'll facillitate:
All playoff qualifiers in each league gain entry so a total of 32 teams make it in. The playoffs will run in parallel with the RIFC playoffs from weeks 14-16.
Teams will be ranked at the end on a total of:
3 week total weeks 14-16
+ Average one week total for weeks 1-13
----------------------
Total score
This assumes the following which I think by looking around can be assumed to be fact
a)Leagues all use same scoring system
b)I can take a peek into each league's page somehow during week14-16
c)Scores continue to tabluate (not a big deal I've done pencil and paper before the innernets)
This format makes cross-league competition possible as well as elminating the one-and-done nature of normal FFL playoff trees.
Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?
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| 1 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 08:54
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Great idea.
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| 2 | Nerfherders
ID: 12511815
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 10:51
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I like it!
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| 3 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 23916230
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 11:20
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Sounds good... I would imagine though... that if the "quality of play" of the RIFC is supposed to be of a higher level... then we'd expect that a lower level qualifiers would probably do better in a contest like this.
What I mean by this, should the managers in the RIFC be more evenly matched, then their will most likely be less teams that are that amazingly "stacked".
Still sounds like an interesting idea though.
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| 4 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 11:23
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I don't think that will be an issue, IAC. None of the leagues are that bad. And honestly, most of the good free agents and waiver wire guys should be on the worst teams by now, since we used a welfare system the first 6 weeks.
It's hard to have any completely unbalanced teams in a 14-manager league. Too much competition for free agents. The only way a team could really be stacked is if the owner had an insane draft and nailed all of his picks. And I still have never seen that happen.
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| 5 | Doug
ID: 131014115
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 13:57
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Interesting that the inclusion of a regular season result isn't causing an outcry. We suggested something way less significant in RIFC this season (I think a couple points?) as a "home field advantage" for regular season performance and there were a bunch of negative comments, people saying they wouldn't choose to participate in such a league, etc... yet here the same principle is being applied (more dramatically) and there is not a single complaint! I'm certainly not complaining, I like the idea... I just find the reactions (or lack thereof) intriguing.
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| 6 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 14:04
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Doug, that's because this "competition" is culdeus' toy and he is going to do it his way no matter what anyone says.
I think it's a good idea because it will give us some ideas how the teams in different leagues matched up this year. I'm not betting money on it or anything.
Basically, it's unofficial, so I don't care how he runs it. Hell, I may not even make the Playoffs, in which case my opinion is almost completely irrelevant.
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| 7 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 14:13
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It's modeled off the WCOFF system. That's the way they run their finals when everyone has access to the same rosters in the 50 or 60 leagues that feed it.
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| 8 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 14:27
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I'm just curious, could a manager from each of the 4 leagues post the highest say 3 or 4 teams total points so far. It would give a small measure of how the various leagues are doing.
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| 9 | Doug
Leader
ID: 02730280
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 15:00
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The initial post sounded very open to thoughts and concerns, so I don't know where the "he is going to do it his way no matter what anyone says" comment comes from... unless culdeus has some history of being extraordinarily stubborn that I am unaware of. Personally, I've never had that impression.
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| 10 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 15:33
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Yes, culdeus the old mule.
I just meant that there aren't any stakes. People aren't going to change their management techniques or anything to win the Cross-League Championship. Winning the individual league will still be the focus of managers.
With all of that said, I'm sure culdeus will implement any suggestions that he finds reasonable or good. Suggest away.
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| 11 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 15:45
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RIFC standings
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| 12 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 16:07
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So the top 4 in the RIFC have 1989, 1986, 1943, and 1915 with a total of the 14 teams having 25465.44
In the AA league the top 4 have 2212, 2115, 2062, 2016 with the 14 teams having 26239 points.
I wonder if the 775 point difference is a matter of luck or a difference in scoring mechanics. I tried to set up the AA the same as the RIFC, but I can't be sure that it is exact.
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| 13 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 16:40
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Frick - you can compare your league's individual player scoring through 8 weeks vs. our league. I just printed out the top 200 offensive players and the top linebackers, and put them in pdf files.
Top 200 offensive players
Linebackers
Both lists are sorted by average points per week for the first 8 weeks.
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| 14 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Nov 04, 2005, 09:14
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Thank you Guru.
It looks like the difference is in Team DEF. I checked about 20 different players of various positions and it looks like every matches except for the Team Ds.
Guru AA
Bears - 97 138.74
Colts - 105 123.48
Giants - 88 131.04
Should Team Ds get points for returns, IIRC I had it set to no initially, but changed it to yes.
Is there any scoring in the Team D that would give fractional points?
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| 15 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Fri, Nov 04, 2005, 09:48
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Yes, it would be fractional if you are counting returns. That seems to be the likely reason to me why your scoring is different.
I would recommend not changing it in midstream, though. The integrity of your league depends on not adjusting scoring systems in the middle of the season.
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| 16 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Nov 04, 2005, 10:15
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We don't award return points, but I agree with Motley, that a midseason change is not desirable.
This does make culdeus' proposal problematic - unless someone wants to manually adjust for the team defenses.
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| 17 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Sat, Nov 05, 2005, 07:28
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If it's just one posistion it won't be that hard to adjust. I'll compare the other leagues also. Thanks for the help.
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| 18 | Nerfherders
ID: 64532914
Sun, Nov 06, 2005, 04:26
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I thought that it was kinda funny our league was counting returns for defenses. But its easy enough to re-calculate it for the cross competition. just subtract return yardage.
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| 19 | culdeus
ID: 151155423
Mon, Dec 05, 2005, 23:36
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I'll post the first standings tomorrow with regular season results for the first "week".
I'm not going to knock myself out correcting for the discrepancy in the AA scoring. I'm going to add in a "correction factor" with the average of the top 8 in the other three leagues compared to the average of the AA league and leave it at that. If an AA team makes a big run I'll take a closer look at how it shakes out. It would take someone giving me a login id to really go in an correct it all the way.
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| 20 | culdeus
ID: 151155423
Tue, Dec 06, 2005, 19:25
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Standings are up
AA took a 4% hit on total points for their scoring discrepancy.
Hey, if guru can win his invitational league regular season why can't I win my game's regular season too?
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| 21 | Motley Crue
ID: 2192327
Tue, Dec 06, 2005, 19:55
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How is it you know who qualified for 2006 RIFC? I thought that was still open for discussion?
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| 22 | culdeus
ID: 151155423
Tue, Dec 06, 2005, 19:58
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I just took the qualification standards guru posted pre-season as gospel. CMIIW.
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| 23 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Sun, Dec 11, 2005, 19:09
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Not sure how the other teams are doing but it looks like TB will bump up if not to the top right near it with 177. Wow.
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| 24 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Mon, Dec 12, 2005, 19:17
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There seems to be something wrong with the averages in the standings. It looks like the number used to get the average is 23, when it should be 26.
BTW I looked at my Def scoring and returns are coming out at about 3% for me. But what's 1% between gurupies? :)
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| 25 | culdeus
ID: 151155423
Mon, Dec 12, 2005, 23:38
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I'll take a fresh look at it tomorrow. I'll be manually subtracting from AA teams their d/st return yards from here on out. If it comes down to ~5 points or so at the end I'll run thru the season.
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| 26 | Guru
ID: 2811847
Tue, Dec 13, 2005, 09:57
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In order to have the system calculate scores for teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs, Commissioners may need to set up a game matchup for those teams in week 15. I was able to do this in fanball by assigning those teams a "game 2" matchup for this week in the schedule setup page.
Maybe the system will track a team's score anyway. I don't recall.
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| 27 | culdeus
ID: 151155423
Tue, Dec 13, 2005, 19:11
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Week14 Standings
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| 28 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Tue, Dec 13, 2005, 19:20
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Some comments:
TB narrowly got by guru by virtue of the highest total score this week.
Seeds held true to form despite the controversy surrounding the number of playoff teams.
0 1 seeds
1 2 seed
1 3 seed
2 4 seeds
Lost over the weekend. This is what I would expect.
Toughest lost by far was deepsnappers 144 point defeat. russelldl has the dubious honor of the lowest scoring winner at 105.14 (adjusted).
Two RIFC 2006 qualifiers fell this week: Doug and Motley Crue.
GLTA
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| 29 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Tue, Dec 13, 2005, 23:52
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I don't understand what you mean by who won and who lost from last week. I thought you were just putting together everyone's scores. Was it a 32 team bracket with #1 playing #32, #2 vs #31, etc...? I couldn't figure out who Motley Crue lost to if that was the case. Kinda confusing.
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| 30 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Wed, Dec 14, 2005, 08:12
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Nobody lost anything. Talking about their individual games within their brackets. All teams drive on to the end of the playoff seasons. Just making some commments after viewing the other brackets and how they shook out. High scoring losers don't have to fret in this format.
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| 31 | leggestand
ID: 11102399
Wed, Dec 14, 2005, 08:39
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Culdeus, Motley won in the RIFC playoffs; he took down Goatlocker.
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| 32 | russelldl
ID: 18114914
Wed, Dec 14, 2005, 09:45
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If you want to be specific, I actually won based on Alge Crumpler dropping that late touchdown pass on monday night. After which he turned to the camera and said "Merry Christmas".
Thank you, Alge.
I love the playoffs.
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| 33 | TB
ID: 1286814
Wed, Dec 14, 2005, 10:48
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I guess I am not understanding the brackets, unless he was playing against JTserb and it was just a typo that he lost. If teams whose scores are in italics reflect the "losing" teams, there are 17 in italics and only 15 that aren't.
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| 34 | culdeus
ID: 516121713
Wed, Dec 14, 2005, 17:55
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Motley lived on. I'll fix that next week. I did double checks on the scores/totals it's all hand entered so prone to a bit of error from time to time.
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| 35 | Guru
ID: 2811847
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 10:11
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RIFC points - week 15
Guru 115.52
Goatlocker 110.36
Motley 125.46
Bandos 138.08
Oaktown Raiders 148.12
leggestand 87.98
I am Canadian 101.06
Beware of Doug 118.74
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| 36 | Trip
Leader
ID: 13961611
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 12:22
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Week 15 Points for RIFC X-league Championship
AAA#1
106.44 - Valkyrie13 (Valkyrie 13)
119.30 - Youngroman (Youngroman)
121.34 - Crazy 88s (Beezer)
102.82 - Wasatch Frontrunners (Pancho Villa)
124.26 - Cowboys Homer (Bags)
109.80 - Deepsnapper (Deepsnapper)
128.70 - The fighting Jed Clampetts (Wolfer)
68.42 - Slowhand (Slowhand)
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| 37 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 13:06
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I need to go pull out the d/st kr/pr points for aa and I'll be good to go.
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| 38 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 13:16
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Week 15 Points for RIFC AA (adjusted)
AAA Bound (russelldl) 85.82
Nerfherders (Nerfherders) 128.42
Juking Safety (s_R) 132.58
Shortbus Stalwarts (Letter J) 121.96
Da Bombers (Da Bomb) 113.2
Smith32 (Smith 32) 120.2
Slackjawed Yokels (Slackjawed Yokel) 81.64
Chicago Serbs (JtSerb) 99.26
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| 39 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 13:16
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Heh I just did the work for you culdeus ;)
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| 40 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 13:33
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:thumbup: I'll post them when I get home a bit later today. Ran out of time at home during lunch.
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| 41 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 18:18
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week 15 standings
Guru pulling away a bit this week. Still wide open to anyone within about 40-50 points if the right things shake out. I'll try to pull the rosters of the top 5 teams later this week.
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| 42 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 18:19
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Some comments on h2h and rifcxlc results:
High score this week went to previously eliminated AthleticsGuy with 148.12. Only 5 scores above 130 this week compared to 10 last week.
Looking at it from a traditional H2H perspective it is interesting that of the 4 leagues the 1 and 2 seeds met in both RIFC and AAA2. In AAA1 the number 1 seed met the number 3 seed. The lowest seed to advance to the last game was Nerfherders (5) on a pretty low point total (lowest of all H2H finalists).
Breaking it down by leagues you see that the RIFC had the highest scoring 2 week average with AA at the lowest. This somewhat debunks the theory that the AA league would be top heavy with some poor drafters mixed in at the bottom.
Breaking it down in average by seeding the chart is fairly linear from 1 to 8 except some of the 6 seeds got feisty. Notably AthleticsGuy, Letter_J, and Deepsnapper all dot the top half of the XLC standings.
Based on how the seeds broke out there will be a minimum of 2 open seats (And possibly 3) for the RIFC next year by virtue of no low seeds advancing in two leagues.
Next week should be very interesting. Indy is planning on resting much of their starting offense and defense. This could put several teams in a pinch with the waiver rules being what they are.
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| 43 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 18:25
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I would also add that Letter_J is the only one to outscore all of his league in xlc scoring to not be in the final game. There are examples of people outscoring one of the two finalists in every other league, but not anything like what happened in AA.
Interesting.........
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| 44 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 19:26
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It's the randomness of H2H. He blew away his opponent last week, and was a managerial decision away from winning this week.
As for myself, luck has been on my side all year. I draw opponent after opponent who out-averages me in every way, but then has their worst game of the season.
As for AA being the worst scorers, I am not certain they all know about this little endeavor. There were a few teams with zeroes on their start sheet cuz they figured they were done for the year.
Just out of curiosity, how does being called up work? Does the AA winner have any chance of jumping up to RIFC?
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| 45 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 20, 2005, 20:25
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The H2H AA winner does get a jump up.
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| 46 | culdeus
ID: 2311202320
Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 19:08
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It'll probably be Wednesday noonish before I get the last standings up. I'm away from home and have the files on my home computer.
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| 47 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 09:31
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RIFC results for week 16
Guru 158.20
Motley Crue 133.26
I am Canadian 86.40
leggestand 95.58
Goatlocker 154.32
Bandos 92.64
Oaktown Raiders 123.24
Beware of Doug 93.16
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| 48 | Nerfherders
ID: 64532914
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 14:39
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RIFC AA results for week 16 (adjusted)
Nerfherders (Nerfherders) 136.8
Juking Safety (S_R) 128.6
Shortbus Stalwarts (Letter J) 119.18
AAA Bound (russeldl) 97.66
Da Bombers (Da Bomb) 123.32
Smith32 (Smith 32) 123.14
Slackjawed Yokels (Slackjawed Yokel) 86.8
Chicago Serbs (JtSerb) 140.38
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| 50 | culdeus
ID: 431150179
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 17:38
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Well Guru held off (and put distance on everyone) to win the XLC title as well as his own RIFC title.
Two leagues had the H2H also winning the XLC scoring (RIFC and AAA1). In both AA and AAA2 the eventual winner ended up behind not one but two other teams.
Some people look to this as a way to rectify the known imbalance of one and done H2H format by giving better overall teams a way to get past a one week slip up. In this test case it appears that in two cases did a higher seeded team advance beyond there eventual finish.
This happened with me actually in AAA2 losing to MikeV in the championship game, but still squeezed by in the final standings. However, this was somewhat mediated by the fact that Hubble blew by both of us and finished 3rd overall in XLC scoring.
In AA it shook out differently in that the highest scoring in XLC (SR) was a higher seed than the the eventual champion (youngroman).
So in this small sample size it can be said that the H2H format probably failed in two leagues to produce the most consistent champion.
As a side note my team actually scored the most points of any team for the year and finished 4th in this contest. So it doesn't really become a total points contest. I'll post the top 10 total points vs. Xlc total points and some other stuff later this week.
Hope this helped you all in some way determine if you want to implement this system in your own leagues next year.
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| 51 | Nerfherders
ID: 64532914
Tue, Dec 27, 2005, 20:17
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I have to admit something.
I didn't actually win the Final of AA. Because S_R had Buffalo defense, he received 20.04 points from receiving yards, which put him 8 points ahead by our points quirk.
However, I'm going to make a case for my being #1. I went through every game of the season to find similar incidents of receiving yards being the cause of a H2H switch. There were only 3 of these that involved potential playoff teams.
In week 1 AAA Bound would beat Manning
In week 6 Serbs would beat Frick
In week 9 Cressida would beat Da Bomb
This changes the final regular season standings only slightly:
AAA Bound 18-8
Juking Safety 17-9
Smith 32 15-11
Nerfherders 15-11
Da Bombers 14-12
Shortbus 14-12
Serbs 12-14 (points #1)
Yokels 14-12 (points #2)
The different bracket produces the same results. I would still move on to the second round, beating Da Bomb. Shortbus beats Smith 32, and we both stay in the same bracket, so the second round remains exactly the same.
So there you have it. Only 4 games all year were decided by the receiving yards discrepency in AA, three of those resulted in no difference in who made it to the finals, and the other one was the championship game.
So I leave it to you to decide who actually wins RIFC AA.
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| 52 | TB
ID: 181162415
Wed, Dec 28, 2005, 17:46
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I would say it was the guy who scored the most points in your league championship game based on your league's scoring rules.
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