RotoGuru Football Leagues & Standings

View the Forum Registry

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread

Self-edit this thread
0 Subject: 2008 RotoGurupie Keeper 14: The Second Season

Posted by: Mötley Crüe - Dude [439372011] Sat, Jul 26, 2008, 14:46
Welcome back, everybody. We have many issues to concern ourselves with at the beginning of this season, and they are listed below.
1. We have a vacancy in the league. Sludge has elected not to return and we need to find a replacement manager as soon as possible. I’d like a veteran of the RIFC league (preferably someone who’s stuck around the top for a few years). Please nominate anyone you have in mind. They must be a RotoGuru Message Boards regular and have the support of several of our league’s members at a minimum.
2. A determination needs to be made and the rules need to be amended to account for new managers replacing old ones in terms of keepers. Will the new manager be allowed to pick through Sludge’s players and keep up to five, or will the new manager control an expansion team in the spirit of the NFL and have no keepers (but pick first in the draft)?
3. We talked about several issues on these boards over the last year and we can address those now to debate any rules changes. Among the items:
a) Introducing 1 or more IDP keeper slots. For 2008 or 2009?
b) Adding X-number of IDP starters to the roster (and expanding the roster to accommodate it).
c) Adding more bench slots to the roster.

The rules below are not all inclusive. They are the rules we have customized outside of what Fanball is set up to handle and I believe these are the rules that will be subject to the most debate with regard to changes. You should be able to access Fanball still if you want to look at the transactions and scoring procedures. Those rules are for the most part the same as RIFC rules.

Custom Rules (additional rules entered by the commissioner)
KEEPER RULES

Managers may keep up to 5 players each season from the previous year's roster. There is no minimum number of keepers.

Keepers must be declared either at the RotoGuru Message Forum in the appropriate thread or by e-mailing the Commissioner. The deadline for these declarations shall be one week before the official start of the draft. An exact date for this will be stipulated each season and the Commissioner will notify managers in advance.

Each player chosen in Year X and kept in subsequent years will require a manager to forfeit a draft pick in the corresponding Year-X-draft-round the player was chosen in for the year X+1 draft. Beginning in year X+2, keeping the same player will result in the loss of a pick corresponding to the pick from Year X divided in half, rounded down to the nearest whole number. This division and rounding shall apply each subsequent year (X+3, X+4, etc) until keeping a player requires forfeiting a first round pick every year.

If there are two or more players that achieve first round keeper status, they may be kept in exchange for forfeiting the same number of picks at the front of the draft. Keep 3 first round players, forfeit the first 3 picks. Keep 5, forfeit the first 5 picks.

If two players on the same fantasy team are drafted in the same round and then kept, one of them counts as the next lowest (numerically) draft pick in the subsequent draft. If three players on the same team require forfeiture of equal draft rounds to be kept, the owner forfeits that round's pick, plus the two picks from the straddling rounds.

Players that are traded maintain their draft spot for the purposes of determining keeper status, unless they are subsequently waived.

All players who are waived automatically garner 'undrafted' status. For the purposes of assigning them a keeper round the following year, it would be as if they were never drafted, even if the same manager re-acquires the player.

Undrafted players may be kept with the 24th round pick in the subsequent draft.

Changes to the keeper rules will only be affected if at least 75% of the league votes in favor of the change. 75% of 14 requires at least 11 managers in favor.

UNLISTED PLAYERS

During the draft, any player may be drafted, regardless of whether or not the player is listed at the hosting game site. Once the draft is completed, unlisted players may not be added to any roster. This applies for any post-draft waiver processing as well.

In the event that a drafted player is not listed after the draft has completed, a placeholder player will be assigned to the drafting team, to be replaced by the drafted player as soon as he is available.

PRIORITY CLAIMING

All free agents (any players not on a current roster) are subject to a weekly claiming process at noon on Wednesday. Following the first 6 weeks of the season, the priorities will reset weekly based on the reverse of W/L percentage. After that, priorities will not be reset. Throughout the season, when a player is claimed (either via "free agent priority claim" or a waiver claim), the claiming team moves to the end of the claiming priority list. Following the final regular season game, priorities will be reset based on playoff seed, with the top seed getting the top priority. Thereafter, throughout the playoffs, priorities will again adjust only when a claim is awarded.

Starting at 1:00pm on Wednesday, all free agents may be picked up by any team "first come, first served" without any change in priority status.

(Immediately following the draft, undrafted players will be subject to a priority claiming process, with priorities equal to the reverse of the first round draft order.)

When a player is dropped from a roster, the player will go on waivers for 48 hours. At the end of the 48 hour period, if any team has placed a claim on the player, the team with the highest claiming priority will receive the player. If no claims are submitted, the player becomes a free agent at that time. If a player is dropped within 48 hours of his game freeze, he may not be claimed until the following week's free agent claiming process.

Starting five minutes prior to the scheduled start of each NFL game, no player in that game may be dropped, regardless of whether the player is an active or bench player.

SCHEDULE

13 week round robin
Doubleheaders all weeks 1-13 (play each team twice)
Single elimination playoffs, weeks 14-16

TRADES AND TRADE DEADLINE

During the draft, trades may include draft picks. Trades will normally be approved immediately by the Commissioner, assuming they are reasonably balanced. If league managers believe an announced trade is unbalanced, they should protest the trade ASAP.

Trading for future draft picks is allowed at any time, with the following limitations:

1. Draft picks in rounds 1 through 5 may only be traded during the week leading up to the draft and during the draft itself each summer.

2. Managers may accumulate as many draft picks as they wish; however no fantasy team shall have more than 24 players on its roster at any time.

After the draft, trades will be subject to a review period. For the first 24 hours following a trade, managers may protest a trade by posting a message at the RotoGuru forum, or by sending an email to the Commissioner. If at least 3 managers protest a trade within 24 hours of its announcement, then all managers will be polled within the next 24 hours. If seven or more managers vote to veto a trade, then it will not be approved. If a proposed trade is announced less than 24 hours before the earliest freeze for any player involved, then the entire trade will not be processed until the following week.

If a trade does not receive at least 3 protests, then it will be effective 24 hours after it is announced. If a trade receives at least 3 protests but the protests are not upheld in a full league vote, then the trade will be processed 48 hours after it is announced.

The trade deadline is 12 noon EST on the day before the first game of NFL Week 13. Trading is not allowed after the deadline until the Fantasy Playoffs have ended at the conclusion of NFL Week 16. Any trades agreed on by two managers outside of this time period ("trade moratorium") will be eligible for league review and commissioner approval. This includes trades made during the NFL off season.

In the event the NFL changes its schedule whether to increase or reduce the number of games, or due to unforeseen circumstances (weather, etc), this trade moratorium may be modified.

PLAYOFFS

8 teams
Top 6 W/L records are seeded 1-6
Top remaining total points are seeded 7-8
Teams with equivalent W/L records are seeded based on head-to-head first, then total points
Bracket is fixed (no reseeding after each round)

Players at the primary skill positions (QB, RB, WR) and team defenses may not be added for any reason during the playoffs. Free agents at these positions will be locked out after the final regular season game. You may drop a player at one of these positions, but once dropped, that player cannot be added later.

Players at the other positions (TE, PK, IDP) may be added or dropped according to normal regular season guidelines, subject to playoff claiming priorities, if applicable.

If a playoff game ends in a tie score, the team with the better seed shall advance.

Team which are not still active in the Championship playoffs may not make any transactions - adds or drops - even if they are still competing in the Consolation bracket.

CONSOLATION BOWL AND DRAFT ORDER

A Consolation Bracket will be established for the 4 lowest ranked teams at the end of the regular season (using regular season W/L%). The teams will be seeded 1-4. In NFL Week 14, Seed 1 plays Seed 4 and Seed 2 plays Seed 3. The winners of those two games play in NFL Week 15 in the Toilet Bowl. The winner of the Toilet Bowl is awarded the first pick in the next fantasy draft.

The other 13 draft positions will be slotted based on the reverse of the final regular season standings (using W/L%).

The draft will maintain the same order every round throughout (it will not snake).

MISCELLANEOUS

1. Players who are not eligible to play in the current NFL year, or who are under contract or obligation to non-NFL professional or collegiate football teams, may not be added to fantasy rosters. Players who have at one time been drafted or under contract in the NFL are exempt from this restriction.

Link to Fanball Commssioner.
1I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Jul 26, 2008, 15:26 		Wow! Quite the first post to have to read through. Good job MC... very thorough.

1. I'm sure there are quite a few who could qualify... Maybe targetting a few of the RIFC'ers from this year might be a good starting point? Electroman, Slackjawed Yokel, Smith32, Holt, Bags, Da Bomb... all good choices IMHO.
2. I like the idea of a new manager means a fresh start. The manager thus isn't stuck weeding through another managers beginnings, and it gives the managers who stick with there team a little extra advantage.
3. a/ 2 2008
b/ 1
c/ 0
2TB
      ID: 395122110
      Sat, Jul 26, 2008, 16:23 		Hello fellas. Looking forward to a new season.

1) I'm with IAC on this. It is a little diappointing that someone drops out of a keeper league after one season, but there is a large pile of qualified managers on this forum.
2) I prefer to give the new manager the same choice we all have. They can elect to toss them all back or to keep up to five.
3. I'd don't feel strongly about this, but if we do add one designated IDP spot we should make sure it follows the same keeper rules. We should not add any new bench positions even if we do add new starter positions. I've been a big fan of adding additional IDP starters in the RIFC format for a while. Something like 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, and two Flex.

Really, I am cool with whatever the league wants to do. I'm cutting back on teams this year and going to put more energy into just having fun in the leagues I do participate with.
3leggestand
      ID: 5993619
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 08:41 		Nice post, Erik. Looking forward to another fun year. My thoughts to the proposals posted:

1. Agree with TB and IAC above.

2. I agree with TB. The new manager should take over Sludge's team, and he has the option to keep up to 5 players. I don't agree that it should be seen as an expansion team (because it isn't). What if this was the top team from last year dropping out? I think taking over a team as is comes with the territory when you join a league.

3a. We should add IDP keepers. I am fine with 1 or 2, but I do feel pretty strongly that we shouldn't have this rule until the 2009 season. I think any rule change we make has to be for the 2009 season, as some people may have made moves assuming the rules agreed to last year.

3b. Maybe 1

3c. Add a 1 to 1 correlation as to what is agreed to on 3b.
5leggestand
      ID: 5993619
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 08:49 		Two other items I'd also like to address:

4. I'd like to see a rule that says "if a player is drafted in round 5 or earlier, then he maintains that draft spot whether he is dropped or not." The reason being that a player may have a season ending injury and be dropped because he isn't worth his 2nd round pick status, then someone else picks him up and he becomes a 24th round keeper. I'll admit that I am an owner that benefitted to the current rule last year (Cadillac Williams), and there were a couple others (Bulger, Deuce), but I'd like to see this change implemented. The limited number of bench spots is why I think this is fair.

5. I am just throwing this out there...do we want to cap the number of years you can keep a player, at something like 3 years (meaning 4 years of on your team, 3 years of "declaring him a keeper.")? Or, is everyone fine with the ability to keep someone as long as they want? I'd prefer the cap, but, it's no big deal either way.
6I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 09:57 		RE Post 5:

4. No. Don't change the existing rule. We know the dangers of dropping a highly ranked player. That should be enough.
5. No. Plus changing this rule now could damage another managers long-term management ideas that he already had in place.
7Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 11:16 		At this point, I think the new manager should take over Sludge's team, too. Only because we never contemplated this in the rules and to give the new manager first pick in the drafts hurts leggestand (and IAC in one round) by pushing him down to second pick. I want to come up with a set of rules to govern this situation in the future, but for this time, I think it's best we let someone replace Sludge as if he is inheriting the team; and that manager can make the decision to keep or drop players.

RE Post 5

4. I like the rule the way it is. It boils down to an opinion question. Do we want to try to help individual managers more, or do we work to keep balance and league parity paramount? If someone feels like they need to drop a 1-5 pick during the season, they likely have a roster full of other star players they are unwilling to drop or they have a ton of injured studs. The way the rule is now, it forces us to manage frugally and very strategically. It makes it harder. I kind of like that.

5. I am against limiting keeper rights by imposing a length cap. In fantasy football, the vast majority of players will not be kept for a long time anyway. I like the reward structure we have in place incentivizing taking deep sleepers. A cap on the length of time you can keep a player would do the opposite to an extent.

8leggestand
      ID: 5993619
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 15:14 		The only counterpoint that I think needs to be made regarding #4 and IAC's and MC's responses is the player's "relative" value for a manager.

For example, if I pick Deuce McAllister in round 2 last year, and he gets hurt for the season, the only way I can keep him is if I hold onto all year and then keep him...as a round 2 keeper. I doubt anybody would hold onto this type player all season thinking that they would really keep him. But, he is certainly worth a 24th round keeper for other teams to take a chance on...but the original team does not have that option.

Basically, it puts in the owner in a no-win situation if he loses a high pick to injury. He can either:

(a) hold onto the player all season, and not keep him because the pick is too high, thus wasting a much needed roster spot, given our slim bench.

(b) drop the player and let another team have a 24th round keeper, thus strengthening an opponent

Like I said, this appears to be a no win situation (especially for a manager who just lost a top pick), and is why I think it should be remedied.

Maybe we can look into adding a single IR spot, so, that a manager doesn't have to screw himself extra for a guy getting hurt?

I really don't think this is a strategic issue for a manager. No one wants to hold an unkeepable player that is hurt for the year. Thus, they drop the player. And, all players picked round 2-5 are worth taking a chance on for the other 13 teams. So, I don't see the strategy... it's just the relative value of players.

Like I said, it's no big deal if this rule doesn't get passed, but I do still think it's an issue.
9I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 16:16 		I don't mind the idea of 1-2 IR slots... but I'm not in favor of extra bench slots.
10Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 17:49 		A single IR spot sounds reasonable with the stipulation it can only be used for a player drafted in rounds 1-5, or keepers valued in one of those slots.

Today I made some roster changes to reflect the offseason trade legge and IAC made. I also made a transaction adding the 49er Defense to my team to see if the software would allow me to have more than 24 players on a team. It did. Then I dropped San Fran. Just a little experiment if anyone saw it and was scratching their head.

Legge, I sent you an e-mail a few minutes. Your out-of-office was on the other day, so if you're not checking it, let me know if there's a better address.
11leggestand
      ID: 386512716
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 17:52 		I am still out of the office, but with a blackberry I am connected to work 24/7...hooray!

I'll give it a look and get back to you.

I also think a single IR spot with stipulations sounds reasonable.
12Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 07:52 		Da Bomb has been selected to fill Sludge's spot as a manager in the league.

Since we only have 4 opinions on the issue of whether or not da Bomb gets access to Sludge's roster for keeper purposes, and 3 of us agree, I'm going to push this issue through now and allow da Bomb to take over for Sludge completely.

Da Bomb, please be sure to review the rules at the top of the thread. They explain how the keeper process in our league works. It's a little unusual but we can help if there's anything you're not clear about.

Also, if you want to vote on the other issues presented above in post [0] and [5] please do.
13The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 10:21 		1. Welcome Da Bomb - I agree with the others about having him take over for Sludge completely.
2. I would prefer that new managers coming in be brought in as if they bought the franchise from the previous owner, as I think no matter how bad a team is in this league, someone will take a chance on building them up from this forum as long as we make the league worth being in.
3a. 1 slot for 2009
3b. I'd like to see us maintain the same roster as the RIFC as it makes it easier for current and new managers to value players
3c. Same as 3b
4. I prefer adding an IR slot for previous keepers or players drafted in rounds 1-5 instead of changing the drop rules.
5. I don't think keeper rights should be limited as the chance of a Gretzky/Jordan type player in the NFL is just about impossible.
14GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 10:30 		Da Bomb works just fine for me.
And just getting Sludge's team as is and making decisions also works just fine.

I'll make my other comments and vote shortly.

15Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 14:41 		Ditto GoatLocker's post
16Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 15:18 		1. Da Bomb is certinly fine.

2. agree with decision to take over old roster.

3. I'm OK with adding an IDP keeper slot for 2009. Does this mean that we would have up to 6 keepers in total, and that if 6 keepers are designated for a team, at least one must be an IDP? OR are we sticking with 5 keepers, of which at least one is reserved for an IDP?

I don't feel a need to add an extra IDP starting slot, however. I'd also like to conitnue to mirror the roster config for the RIFC.

4. I'm OK with a DL slot for a round 1-5 player.

5. opposed to a cap on keeper years.
17Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 18:57 		1) Welcome Da Bomb!

2) Taking over Sludge's team is fine while remaining in the team's 4th pick slot.

3) Agree with adding mandatory IDP keeper with the understanding that we'll be keeping 6.

4) I agree with adding a DL slot, but not with limiting it just to 1-5 rounds players. Taking a look back at last years draft, players like Romo, Big Ben Roeth, Derek Anderson, Witten, Welker, Ryan Grant,.... actually only 8 starting QB's were drafted in the first 5 rounds. Anderson and Grant were FA p/u's and shouldn't we have the right to protect them on th I/R as well? (Randy Moss was drafted 5.11 and would barely fall into the 1-5)

5) I'm also opposed to a cap on keeper years.

Adding a 6th consideration

I would like to see off season trading vanquished! I was on the fence last season, actually leaning toward voting against, but decided to try it for a season and now I'm totally against it.
18Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 19:01 		Oh, and I agree with Guru on not seeing the need to add another IDP slot although we should try to mirror RIFC as close as possible.
19Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 19:42 		Thanks for the welcome guys.
I will do my best to transform the team formally known as Sludge into a powerhouse for years to come.

Will be catching myself up with the league rules now but will probably not be participating in the voting as I will defer that to you veterans who understand the league better at this point. I can vote though if there's a tie.
20leggestand
      ID: 386512716
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 20:53 		Welcome, Da Bomb!

6. I wouldn't be against some restrictions to trading in the offseason, but I am against any sort of trade deadline during the regular season...maybe no trades allowed during the fantasy playoffs, and then allowed again once keepers are declared?
21GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 21:11 		OK, I answered 1 and 2 in post 14.
3A - 1 in 2008
3B - No
3C - No
4 - No Change
5 - No Cap
1 IR slot for 1-5

I sure could have used that last year.

And I'm just about fine with anything on the trading side.
22GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Tue, Jul 29, 2008, 21:11 		OK, I answered 1 and 2 in post 14.
3A - 1 in 2008
3B - No
3C - No
4 - No Change
5 - No Cap
1 IR slot for 1-5

I sure could have used that last year.

And I'm just about fine with anything on the trading side.
23 Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 18:15 		Looks like we're not going to be changing the roster requirements or keeper configuration at all for 2008. The league seems to lean towards adding a 6th keeper slot for 2009 designed specifically for an IDP. We can firm that up during the draft or early in the season, but I'd say we should all start planning for it now.

The IR slot seems to have strong support as well. My feeling is that it should be like a 25th roster spot. A manager can announce when he is using it here at the RG boards at any time and then drop the IR player and pick up his replacement. We'll work out the details when I return from vacation, but if you guys want to work to build a consensus while I'm gone, I'm OK with that. Personally, I think it should only be available for a player worth picks in rounds 1-5. But I will go with the majority on that one.

Finally, 2 important dates (which I will e-mail to you as well):

--Keeper declarations are due at noon ET on August 12, 2008. E-mail them to leggestand and me, and/or post them in here.

--The draft will start officially on August 19, 2008 at noon ET.

I'll open the draft on Kafenatid when I return from vacation. Early picks will be allowed as soon as I create the draft, but leggestand won't be on the clock until noon on the 19th.

If anyone makes any trades, please post them in here so that I can process them when I get back. Also, it would help if you'd e-mail them to me so I can keep a record. And remember: Draft picks in rounds 1 through 5 may only be traded during the week leading up to the draft and during the draft itself each summer.

leggestand and TB have agreed to help me by administering things while I'm gone. Any questions or issues should be directed at them until about August 17th. I'll be traveling a lot, but I will check in very occasionally to see how things are going.
24Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 19:11 		2 part comments on single statement.

Draft picks in rounds 1 through 5 may only be traded during the week leading up to the draft and during the draft itself each summer.

Part 1 - Draft picks in rounds 1 through 5 may only be traded during the week leading up to the draft - Agree, no problem.

Part 2 - and during the draft itself each summer - I thought this was for future drafts, 2009 and beyond for this years draft, and not for the current draft. Meaning, during the 2008 draft we can trade rounds other than 1-5, but if we wanted to trade drafts picks for future drafts, we were limited to rounds 1-5..

Huh?!!? What did he say? Sorry, I'm fighting a headache and the words are scrambling in my head, so I hope this makes since to someone.

25Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 19:19 		You're right. I think I left out some context. The rules are your guide. Listen not to the brain-addled, procrastinating, soon-to-be tourist.
26Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Thu, Jul 31, 2008, 17:00 		Welcome to the talented fantasy player Da Bomb.

To my simple brain, an IR spot is favorable to an extra bench slot that requires declarations and postings.

I agree with Challanger that not having the foresight to draft in rounds 1-5 an unknown player emerging to fantasy relevance during a season should not keep a manager from using the IR on such a player.
27 I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Fri, Aug 01, 2008, 13:44 		Players on the Block (top 100 ADP guys):

Jason Witten: 1st Year of 8th Round Contract
Roddy White: 1st Year of 24th Round Contract
DeAngello Williams: 1st Year of 5th Round Contract
Fred Taylor: 1st Year of 24th Round Contract
Todd Heap: 1st Year of 24th Round Contract

I'm only looking for picks, so if anyone is interested in acquiring any of these guys before the draft, shoot me an email.
28leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 04, 2008, 14:33 		This is just a friendly reminder that everyone has 8 days to send me and MC their keeper declarations.
29 taxman
      ID: 30741123
      Tue, Aug 05, 2008, 13:30 		why wait...I'll beat the rush (probably only thing I'll be first at this year).

Keepers sent listed with corresponding draft pick to be forfieted. Please post/send me your concurrence of my 2008 draft picks to be forfeited.
30 leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Aug 05, 2008, 13:46 		I got it, but you were not first (I was!).
31Doug
      ID: 306152020
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 03:02 		A bit late to the game here but I agree with Da Bomb taking over the team as-is and inheriting it as if it had been his own.

I'm fine with adding a 6th keeper and mandating it be an IDP, but am fine with not doing this also. Either way.

An IR slot sounds good and would rather not hassle with mandating it needs to be a round 1-5 pick. A good LB goes down for a few games and your hosed just because LBs aren't round 1-5 picks? Doesn't make sense to me.

I was able to log in to Fanball to see my end-of-season roster... how do I figure out the "draft round value" of each player? Just look in last year's draft thread? It doesn't matter if I drafted the player myself or traded for the player, right?
32leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 09:06 		Doug - I just sent you spreadsheet you should be using when determining keepers. The email I used was from the fanball site, so, hopefully it made it to you.


Also, on the IR spot/question, I have been assuming that this would only be available for players actually put on IR (meaning: they have had a season ending injury). An IR spot wouldn't be allowed for a player that just went down for a couple of games.

Was I wrong in this interpretation?
33Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 12:17 		An IR spot wouldn't be allowed for a player that just went down for a couple of games.

Was I wrong in this interpretation?

Huh, I think that is what we first need to determine. At the moment, I'm really on the fence on this one. If allowed for a couple of games, this basically is addong a bench spot which I wouldn't agree upon. However, if a player goes down for say 6 weeks or more, then I would have no problem with it. So we could add a rule in which if a player is placed on I/R then he must remain on I/R for a minimum of 6 weeks, meaning he could not be released either to permit another player to go onto I/R.
34leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 13:25 		I am agreement with you, Challenger. I don't think losing a player for a couple games due to something like a tweaked hamstring is what the injured reserve rule would be meant for.

But, I think the NFL has set up Injured Reserve to our fantasy league's advantage, as I think our rule should be identical to the NFL:

In the NFL, if a player is placed on IR, he cannot return for the remainder of the season. This is different to what the rule was 5 years ago (you could be on IR for 5 games and then re-activated).

Injured Reserve info using google search

Overall, I think the issue that we were trying to resolve when preparing a rule modification was to give an owner an avenue to hold onto players that are lost for the season (aka only for players put on NFL's IR). If a player is only "hurt," then a manager would not be able to place him on IR. Unless I hear otherwise, I am assuming that this is the rule we are passing.
35The Beezer
      ID: 31756616
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 18:00 		I agree that the IR spot should only be allowed for players put on the NFL's Injured Reserve list. I'm fine with this spot being available for a player drafted in any round.
36Doug
      ID: 15733617
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 18:41 		legge: thx
IR: either way is fine with me... full IR (for season), or "6 game minimum"
37GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Wed, Aug 06, 2008, 21:44 		Ditto on IR and NFL IR.

Cliff
38TB
      ID: 395122110
      Thu, Aug 07, 2008, 02:21 		Ditto for me on what Beezer said.
39leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 09:09 		About halfway there in terms of keeper submission. Four days left until they are completely due.
40GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 12:19 		I'll relook at mine Sat or Sun to see if that is what I really want to do.

Cliff
41Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Aug 10, 2008, 09:54 		Just sent in my keepers
42GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Sun, Aug 10, 2008, 17:20 		Keepers sent to leggestand and Motley Crue.
43Doug
      ID: 53937413
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 00:07 		Doesn't affect this year, but wondering for next year.

A player kept 2 years in a row, the cost of the round is half (round x divided by 2).

But is the cost of a player kept 3 years in a row "round x divided by 3"... or do you divide in half "twice"?
44Doug
      ID: 53937413
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 00:07 		Keepers sent
45MC on vacation
      ID: 0755112
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 04:03 		I think the IR spot in our league should correspond with real IR. Of course, that wouldn't have helped Marvin Harrison's owner last season. Maybe we make a rule that a manager can IR a player even if the NFL doesn't. But then that player is not lineup-eligible for the remainder of our fantasy season.

This keyböård rocks!

I'm going to post my keepers in here sometime today.

§¤€½ Sweeeeeet.
46 leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 08:59 		Hey Doug - Can you re-send your keepers to me? I did not get them.

There are currently 5 sets of keepers outstanding, excluding MC and Doug, and these managers are: TB, Boikin, Da Bomb, Hubble, and IAC. Keepers are due in about 38 hours.

But is the cost of a player kept 3 years in a row "round x divided by 3"... or do you divide in half "twice"?

The rounded gets divided by 2 each year. For example, if I keep a round 24 guy this year, next year he is round 12, then the following year he is round 6 (not 8).
47boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 09:11 		Im still working on mine, i should have them to you latter today.
48leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 09:30 		Thanks, boikin. Just to be clear, I didn't make my last post to single anybody out (as no one is late), but I figured I'd have to name names since I didn't want everyone re-sending there keepers thinking I didn't get them the first time around.
49leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 09:33 		Of course, that wouldn't have helped Marvin Harrison's owner last season. Maybe we make a rule that a manager can IR a player even if the NFL doesn't.

I think Harrision was an extreme circumstance, as he was week to week all season. I don't think anyone would of dropped him - I had him in two leagues and didin't drop him because it kept saying he would come back.

I am still leaning towards "actual IR" only, as it will be the easiest to administer.
50MC on vacation
      ID: 32742119
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 10:47 		My keepers:

Maurice Jones-Drew, Round 1
Marshawn Lynch, Round 2
Torry Holt, Round 3
Michael Turner, Round 5
Marc Bulger, Round 24
51TB
      ID: 395122110
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 14:30 		My choices seem to be much easier than some teams who have a lot of great middle and late round talent, but I am still stuck on one player so will email my list tonight after I flip a coin enough times.
52boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 16:40 		If you do not hear from me later here is my list of keepers:

Willis McGahee, ROUND 2
Thomas Jones, ROUND 3
Owen Daniels, ROUND 13
Seattle Seahawks, ROUND 18
Barrett Ruud, ROUND 24
53leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 17:41 		Thanks, boikin. Assuming I do not get a revised list from you, TB sends his in tonight, and Doug re-sends, we only need:

Hubble
Da Bomb
IAC

I haven't heard from Hubble for a bit, so, hopefully he has been peeking in.

I will send the spreadsheet to everyone once I get all keepers in, so that people can start their draft prepping.
54I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 19:35 		I too haven't heard from Hubble in a bit. We had been in trade talk a few months back, and had been holding off declaring partially based on our discussions. I will have my keepers in by early AM tomorrow, worst case scenario.
55I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 20:13 		My Keepers (like Boikin... unless I change my mind between now and noon tomorrow):

Steven Jackson, RB, STL - 1st Round
Reggie Wayne, WR, IND - 2nd Round
Tony Romo, QB, DAL - 6th Round
Jason Witten, TE, DAL - 8th Round
Ryan Grant, RB, GB - 24th Round
56Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Aug 11, 2008, 20:29 		Still deciding. Although I can see why Sludge decided not to return his team sucks ;)
57Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 02:08 		Larry Johnson, Round 1
Edgerrin James, Round 2
Brian Urlacher, Round 7
EJ Henderson, Round 17
Paris Lenon, Round 24
58boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 08:22 		Looks like we're not going to be changing the roster requirements or keeper configuration at all for 2008. The league seems to lean towards adding a 6th keeper slot for 2009 designed specifically for an IDP. We can firm that up during the draft or early in the season, but I'd say we should all start planning for it now.

If we decide to add a spot for an IDP, i suggest that they stay at level they originally drafted at or drop minimal amount per year. That would encourage you to keep a player longer. Once you divide their draft status by 2 you are not going to want to keep the player even if he was from the 24th round two years ago.
59leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 09:11 		Two sets of keepers left - one I should be getting soon, and the other is Hubble. Does anyone have a way to get in touch with him? I will send an email, but I don't know if anyone else has another way of finding him?
60leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 10:17 		I got in touch with Hubble, we should get his stuff today as well and then I will send out the spreadsheet to everyone.
61leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 11:45 		Received Hubble's. Just waiting on TB and I will send out the spreadsheet via email.
62I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 18:01 		FYI - I dropped all the guys who will being going back into the draft pool off of my team. Everyone else may as well do the same... save the commish some time.
63TB
      ID: 395122110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 00:26 		I just emailed my keepers, but can post them here now too. Sorry for the delay.

1) Peyton Manning
2) Clinton Portis
3) Roy Williams
7) Chris Chambers
24) Deuce McCallister
64Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 00:55 		I'm having second thoughts. Would anyone mind if I changed my keeper of Brian Urlacher to Donald Driver?

Thus making my keepers:
Larry Johnson, Round 1
Edgerrin James, Round 2
Donald Driver, Round 5
EJ Henderson, Round 17
Paris Lenon, Round 24
65leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 09:27 		I just sent out the spreadsheet, but I am fine with the change, unless I hear a bunch of objections.

I will send out a revised spreadsheet now.

If anyone can post the spreadsheet in the forum, it may be interesting to discuss.
66Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 10:07 		Correction: Devin Hester is missing from my keeper list - round 11. He was properly included in my email sent last week.
67leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 11:17 		Good catch, Guru, and I have sent out another revised spreadsheet.

I guess I should have added a disclaimer:

***Make sure to check your keepers to make sure I captured it correctly***
68 The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 23:09 		I'm not able to find a copy of the spreadsheet - will you resend it to the address in this post? Thanks.
69leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 09:01 		Beezer - I just sent to the above address. Let me know if you have any issues.
70Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 12:11 		Should we have received registration info for kafenatid? I don't recall seeing anything.
71leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 12:14 		I don't think we go tanything, and I have been playing our kafenatid in my head in regards to making this work (keeping the draft rounds for the kept players), and I am not sure I have solved anything.

Is there a way to make our draft format work on kafenatid, or do we have to just rememebr who is taken, and input them when the actual pick comes up (Devin Hester in Round 11 for Guru, for example.)?
72Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 12:31 		I've been musing over that as well. I suspect there is no direct way to set it up. Perhaps an email to KKB is in order, to see if he had any ideas? I'll send him one.
73Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 14:05 		I got the following response from Fred at kafenatid:
Dave, unfortunately I don't have the capability to remove the players and assign them a specific pick with the current software. It is something I plan on working on after this current run of football, basketball, and hockey drafts are complete.
So I think we are just going to have to manage this as we go along. It would no doubt be helpful to include a full list of protected players in the draft thread. And I can also help to monitor and insert keeper picks as we go along, if MC and leggestand want to give me the "keys to the executive wash room."
74leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 14:24 		I don't even think I have keys to the executive washroom!

It appears that we are just going to have to be extra diligent when making selections. Also, it is probably extra helpful if everyone puts players on their team as they are drafted (excluding the keepers, which should be the sole members of each team right now). Therefore, our free agents on Fanball should be a good source of available players.
75GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 14:54 		If everbody adds the player before they draft in Kafenatid, and everybody checks Fanball before Drafting, that should help to keep things from getting too ugly.
76leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 15:10 		It may be a good idea to do a list in this thread of kept players as well so that a person can do a quick "search" to see if someone has been kept or is available. If people are okay with me polluting this thread with that information, I can probably get it done pretty quickly.
77GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 15:25 		legge,
Why don't we start a draft thread and put the keepers in there?
Just a silly thought from the old senile one in the group.

Cliff
78Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 15:35 		Hey!! - there's more than one old senile manager in this group!
79leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 15:45 		Cliff - I think that's a good idea. I'll start a thread and get it in there later today (unless someone beats me to it...hint, hint).
80leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 16:15 		Draft thread started...
81I_A_C
      ID: 54722239
      Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 08:42 		left 3 player queue for 14th round pick. Then won't have access for another 14 hours.
82leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 08:46 		What is the trend of Round 14? Picking players with initials as first names: JT O'Sullivan, DJ Hackett, DJ Williams, and LJ Smith.
83Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 09:47 		Ummm...
these last few posts should be in the draft thread, shouldn't they?
84leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Aug 25, 2008, 11:00 		IAC rope a doped me.
86TB
      ID: 395122110
      Mon, Sep 15, 2008, 19:15 		Keith Bulluck is showing 3 points for the week, 2 tackles and 2 assists. He also scored a TD on a blocked kick. I didn't see a scoring rule for blocked kick recoveries for a TD at the website, but from our initial scoring rules it says TD 6 (all TDs, whether on offense, defense, or special teams).

I almost started a new thread for the season, but with the draft over figured we could go back to this better titled thread.
87Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Sep 15, 2008, 19:19 		MC may have to make a manual scoring adjustment for Bulluck.
88Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Tue, Sep 16, 2008, 18:43 		Tom, I'll add the 6 points for the TD that Bulluck was credited for. I looked high and low but couldn't find an allowance for a blocked kick except for the TM DEF. I'll do it tonight.
89Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Tue, Oct 14x, 2008, 22:29 		I'm putting Adam "Pacman" Jones on "IR"!

(Infinitely Removed)

This gamble bombed like the stock market! Even Bush may not be able to bail him out if this problem.
90Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 15, 2008, 15:37 		The RIFC does not reset claim/waiver priorities from week 7-13. They simply carryover from week-to-week without any further resets based on standings.

Do we also follow that approach for this league? If so, MC will need to make an adjustment in the commissioner controls.
91Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Wed, Oct 15, 2008, 18:37 		Yes, that's what we're doing. I'll make that change.

Your claim priorities as of now are what you're stuck with.
92 Mötley Crüe
      ID: 59251716
      Sat, Oct 18, 2008, 13:38 		In reviewing the box score for the Vikings vs. Lions game from last Sunday, I've discovered that stats for my LB Ben Leber have been updated. He was credited with an additional assisted tackle and a half sack at some point since the scoring went final. That's 2 additional fantasy points, and I'd like to claim them via a Commissioner adjustment. It wouldn't affect the outcome of either of my games last week. Does anyone have an objection to this adjustment?

Please e-mail me or post in here with any comments. I'm going to add the points tonight if no one objects. Thanks.
93Mötley Crüe
      ID: 59251716
      Sat, Oct 18, 2008, 14:14 		I was thinking about this and after reconsidering a bit, I am not sure if I'm entitled to anything. This isn't the first time there's been a retroactive adjustment to a player's stats in the NFL, and I'm pretty sure we usually just live with those and afford no changes in score because of them. Of course, the rules don't address this instance (I don't think they do, anyway), so at the least, maybe it's time to define a new parameter to use.

Your opinions are important to me.
94I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 18, 2008, 22:08 		Doesn't matter to me... but I remember dealing with a "deadline" date for retro-active adjustments that they have to be announced by... Guru might have this written somewhere.
95Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 18, 2008, 23:04 		Ruling on retroactive scoring adjustments for RIFC (from 2005 - post 189)

Looks like we allowed corrections to me made until Saturday midnight.
96Mötley Crüe
      ID: 59251716
      Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 11:59 		Wow, thanks for digging that out, Guru. It had been so long since that was an issue that I couldn't clearly remember what the verdict had been.

The link says that as long as the challenge was made by Saturday night, the point total could be updated. In this case, I think a reasonable amount of time for any necessary reviews was given. I'm going to add the two points to my score for Week 6. It won't change the outcome of any games.

I'd like to add this language to the rules for this league. Please post any thoughts on that in here.
97Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 12:34 		Since it is in the RIFC rules then the adjustment should be made since we are under the general agreement we play by the RIFC rules, unless we amend them.

However....I would suggest in the future we change the deadline to sometime on Thursday (7:00PM EST) for the simple matter that we will be getting into Thursday & Saturday games in a few weeks and I don't think it reasonable that we should have the deadline points adjustment for one week after other games have been played the next week.
98I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 12:52 		Good point about the deadline Challenger. I'd be open to that change.
99Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 12:56 		Just check the NFL schedule and wk 10 starts the Thurs games going thru wk 16, with 3 being played Thanksgiving, and only wk 16 having a Saturday game.
100TB
      ID: 094599
      Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 23:59 		How about we make a common sense rule and just say that up until the first game of the next week is played? I can't see the NFL making any scoring changes past the same time frame, but if a player earned points the manager should get them.
101 Mötley Crüe
      ID: 59251716
      Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 19:31 		I have sufficient RB depth to offer one of mine in trade. I'm looking for a WR that can improve my group, which shouldn't be too hard to find. Any takers, please e-mail me.
102Mötley Crüe
      ID: 59251716
      Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 19:19 		Now that the can of worms has been opened...

DB DeAngelo Hall of Oakland was credited with another assist after the scoring went official this week.

Page 5 of linked Oak vs. NYJ gamebook shows his stat line.

I'm going to make an upward adjustment of .5 points for each of my lineups for Week 7. Again, none of the outcomes will be affected.
103I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 10:56 		Big weekend with the two 11-3 teams facing off (GL Hubble)... and we'll also be halfway through the NFL regular season; it'll be interesting to see where we all lineup at that point.

Will we be putting to vote issues on modifying the # of keepers shortly (ie. 6th slot reserved for an IDP keeper)? because it could affect a teams strategy before the playoff run.
104Mötley Crüe
      ID: 139262510
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:32 		I suppose that does need to be discussed; thanks for the reminder, IAC.

Does anyone have anything to say about adding a 6th (or more) keepers for 2009? I think we discussed increasing the possible number of keepers by 1 and requiring it to be an IDP. In other words allowing teams to keep up to 5 offensive players/TM DEF and up to 1 IDP.

Let's try to get this solved now so that going into Week 13 and the playoff transaction semi-freeze managers can be set up for next season.
105leggestand
      ID: 89332119
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:34 		I agree with the proposal by MC in 104.
106Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:40 		So under this proposal [104], we couldn't keep 4 offensive players and 2 IDPs? I wouldn't support that.

I thought the proposal was that you could keep 6, as long as at least one was an IDP. Otherwise, you could only keep 5.
107I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:42 		Me too I agree with it. (Vote: yes to adding IDP keeper [6th keeper])

I think it makes it a little more fun/interesting to draft a Patrick Willis early, then have the option of locking him in for multiple years.

I'm guessing we'd follow the same rules (Keeping player = loss of draft slot for respective round of previous years draft) as we are using for the other 5 keepers?
108I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:43 		RE 106... I'm with Guru on this one... 1 required IDP... but other slots still open to IDP SHOULD you wish to use it this way.
109Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:44 		This year, 8 teams kept no IDPs.
Three teams kept 1.
Three teams kept 2.
110I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 11:50 		Silly little buggers... keeping 2 IDP... hehe jk jk ;)

Definitely shows precedence that we have to respect the fact that managers have and may continue to wish to plan out there team this way.
111Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 12:35 		I vote to keep 6 with a minimum of one IDP, but not limited to just one.

Could keeping a team defense be considered an IDP?
112Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 12:38 		Hmmm, since we have a rule that doesn't require us keeping any players if we so choose, will this require us now to keep an IDP, but not an offensive player?!!?
113Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 12:48 		Teams already have the option of keeping an IDP.

I kept 2 IDP myself because the team I took over was pretty terrible and I found more value keeping a decent IDP who was a late round pick than say Marvin Harrison or Shockey who would have cost me my 3rd or 4th round picks.
114GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 12:56 		I like the idea of going to 6, but if you keep 6, one must be an IDP.
But, you could keep all IDPs if you want.
In other words, no limit on numbers of IDPs you could keep
115Athletics Guy
      ID: 598273014
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 16:12 		I vote in favor of the additional keeper with the minimum of having 1 IDP.

Challenger brings up a good point. Can a team defense be substituted for an IDP to meet the keeper requirement?
116I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 16:25 		As far as the Team Defense is concerned... I don't really see the point, and guess I would vote against it, although I could be swayed should someone come up with a good reason why to... I just don't see it myself.
117TB
      ID: 094599
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 01:39 		I almost kept two IDP (Bracket and Beason), but changed my mind at the last minute. I should have stuck with the initial plan.
118Doug
      ID: 589572610
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 13:00 		FYI...

Tried swapping in Flacco for Fitz, Boldin for Washington, and DeSean for Engram, and Hayes for Harper, but I guess too close to kickoff. Just FYI.
119Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 18:11 		Deadline is 5 minutes before kickoff.
120The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 20:27 		I'd prefer:

Keep 0 - 6 players
the first 5 can be any position (including IDP)
a 6th would have to be an IDP
121The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 20:56 		Well, legge, it doesn't get much closer than this with 2 to play on each team. 121.08 - 121.06! It'll probably change overnight but that's quite remarkable anyway.
122I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 21:59 		Hmmm... a quick look into the record books confirms my thoughts... FF scoring seems to be down this year. So far, on avg, each team is scoring 4 points less than last years. I guess this year seems to be less predictable. I wonder if it has anything to do with the cb/wr force-out rule? That could definitely impact wr/qb #s a fair bit.
123leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 09:29 		Beezer - it definitely can't get any closer! What is .02 points, 1/2 a passing yard? I don't know how we could of been set up to be 1/2 a passing yard apart.

I totally botched the Warner vs Big Ben decision. I didn't think the Cards would be able to pass at all against the Panthers and assumed Big Ben would be good for 10-15 points. I mean, really, 4 INT's at home?

Hopefully I can get 25 from my Titan RB combo.
124Taxman
      ID: 3985420
      Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 22:14 		I am not in favor of adding a keeper, IDP or otherwise. That is what the draft is all about.
125I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 22:58 		RE 124: I agree that every year there is a need to "replenish" the talent pool, and to add the "fun" factor of a new draft. However, I feel the idea behind a Keeper league is to indeed re-build on an existing foundation. Also, being as fond as I am to IDP, I'd like to see a "forced" IDP.

After all that being said, even with 6 keepers, we still will being drafting another 18 rounds... so the six keepers only represent 25% of the team. Still leaves a TON of possibilities for a "rebuilding" manager to turning around there team in the draft.

Not meaning to be critical... just kinda thinking out loud, and putting it to "paper".
126Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Sun, Nov 02, 2008, 12:43 		I just tried to call Taxman about his 4 players on bye and was unable to reach him. I did leave a voicemail.
127Mötley Crüe
      ID: 279253113
      Sun, Nov 02, 2008, 12:45 		Me, too. Hopefully he can get that squared away. He has some bench players in the late games that could cover a few of those byes, but he needs a TM DEF.
128Mötley Crüe
      ID: 13109317
      Tue, Nov 04, 2008, 18:22 		From post [196] in last year's thread :

The only trade moratorium will occur each year during our league playoffs. As Doug mentioned, the rules will reflect the beginning and end of the trade freeze in terms of NFL weeks 13 through 16 as opposed to a calendar date.

It appears I never reset this information in the rules at the website, so I'm reminding everyone now.

The trade deadline is 12 noon EST on the day before the first game of NFL Week 13. This year that day is Thursday, November 27.
129Mötley Crüe
      ID: 13109317
      Wed, Nov 05, 2008, 18:15 		skeepers and I have consummated a trade.

Mötley Crüe has traded:
Def Titans, Team Defense, TEN
2009 Draft Pick - Round 9

And received from skeepers:
TE Owen Daniels, HOU
2009 Draft Pick - Round 17

24 hours for review starting now.
130Mötley Crüe
      ID: 421011617
      Thu, Nov 06, 2008, 18:21 		Trade processed.
131Mötley Crüe
      ID: 421011617
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 18:10 		There are a few rules issues that have been discussed that we need to vote on. I'm going out of town tomorrow and won't have computer access until Monday evening, but let's get the debate started on these.

1. Adding another keeper
Discussed in detail above. I think the options we boiled it down to were
(a) Keep up to 6 with 1 required to be IDP if 6 are kept.
(b) No change.
11 managers must agree to this item for the change to be made.

2. Injured Reserve
Starting with Post [222] in this thread, there is a discussion about when a manager should be allowed to use IR. At this time, two options have been presented.
(a) If a manager picks up a player who is already on the NFL IR, the player may not be placed on that team's (fantasy) IR.
(b) Any free agent player on NFL IR may be added to a fantasy team's IR at any time, as long as the fantasy team in question does not have a player on fantasy IR already.
Arguments for or against these positions are welcome. If you wish to vote or suggest another option, please do.

3. Retroactive Scoring Adjustments*
We discussed these starting in [92] above, and although there weren't many opinions expressed, I think we should finalize the issue. It's common sense to me to allow scores to be retroactively updated until the games of the following week--or at least to let managers have that long to submit a retroactive scoring request. So the choices are
(a) Allow review and Commissioner decision on retroactive scoring changes until 5 minutes before the kickoff of the 1st game of the following NFL week.
(b) Don't allow retroactive scoring adjustments.

* Incidentally, I'd rather not allow negative scoring adjustments. I think that possibility has the potential to create some real hard feelings, which is clearly something we want to avoid.

Please participate in the voting. I would like to have some concurrence with the majority of the league on these issues. They're pretty important to the integrity of the rules in this league.

Taxman, the e-mail address I have for you rejected the notification of the trade made this week. Not sure if it's changed or overfull or if the problem is on my end, just FYI in case you need to do anything.
132I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 18:41 		1.A
2.A
3.A

I'm sold on 1 and 3... 2 I care less about.
133TB
      ID: 339423013
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 19:15 		1 and 3 are both A.
2. I don't like either opton. I have no problem with a team picking up a player who is already on the NFL IR and adding them to their IR but all players have to be rostered first, meaning no direct pick-up to the IR. You have to have an open spot on your 24 man roster and then slide them over.
134The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 20:44 		1. A
2. Agreed with TB.
3. A
135GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 21:24 		1. A
2. Agree with TB
3. A
136Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 07, 2008, 21:26 		1. a
2. a (with TB's as a fallback)
3. a
137Athletics Guy
      ID: 81023323
      Sat, Nov 08, 2008, 19:41 		1. A
2. Agree with TB
3. A
138Taxman
      ID: 3985420
      Sun, Nov 09, 2008, 20:04 		1. B
2. A
3. A
139Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Nov 10, 2008, 14:28 		2. TB
3. I'm not sold on A. Apparently the only way scoring differences are noticed are if a manager checks the box scores to see how each of his players did and then checks with the fanball scoring to see if it matches. I and probably most others in the league will not be doing this so wouldn't this favor the perhaps 1 manager who is?
140leggestand
      ID: 1610141116
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 17:16 		1. a
2. a (with TB's as a fallback)
3. a
141Mötley Crüe
      ID: 421011617
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 17:55 		1. a
2. TB
3. a

Still waiting on a few more people to vote. Question 1 needs 3 more "a" votes to pass. Da Bomb and boikin have indicated that they will vote soon but are still considering it.

Question 2 might need a runoff or at least some further discussion.

#3 has enough votes to be passed. As far as the comments in [139], I think people may be more willing to look through a few box scores on Wednesday night than you might think. We've often credited defensive TD's retroactively; given that, I think giving credit for sacks, tackles, and other defensive stats after the fact is only fair.
142boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 09:25 		1) a, but the player should hold his draft position longer...
2) I think if you pick up a player on IR you should have to keep them on your active roster till the weeks games are over.
3) If you are going to have retroactive positive scoring then your opponent should be able to get retro-active negative scoring against you.

143Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Wed, Nov 12, 2008, 17:31 		1) B

2) B - with the written stipulation whereas if any player is placed on IR the player is an automatic keeper for the next season and cannot be drop from the team until after the 1st game of that next season.

3) C - going with my original suggestion of the deadline
144Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:09 		I don't know how to get in touch with Hubble or Doug. Neither seems to read my e-mail or messages at the Fanball site. If you guys know them could you try contacting them? We're still 2 votes short of success or defeat on that first item.
145I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 16:17 		Just spoke to Hubble on the phone. He'll check in tonight and post.
146Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Nov 13, 2008, 17:39 		Another alternative for the second issue is to have any injured player who is picked up after he is on IR retain his draft round from the current year, regardless of which manager drafted him.

For example, if Mendenhall is drafted in the 3rd round (he was), is injured, and then dropped - any other team that picks him up and puts him in an IR slot gets to keep him as a 3rd round pick the following year.

Maybe that should be the case even if the player isn't placed in an IR slot.
147Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 00:36 		1. A
148leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 09:04 		For example, if Mendenhall is drafted in the 3rd round (he was), is injured, and then dropped - any other team that picks him up and puts him in an IR slot gets to keep him as a 3rd round pick the following year.

I think this is the same as to what I was trying to get passed this offseason, except that I was thinking of limiting it to draft picks drafted in round 5 or earlier. It got shot down, so, I don't know if it is available for a re-vote.
149Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 10:21 		legge[148] - I had thought the voted proposal only applied to teams who were keeping an injured player - and not to teams who picked up (and stashed) a player who was already injured (and previously dropped by another team).

I don't recall this specific issue ever being discussed until recently. Maybe I wasn't paying attention?
150boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 13:44 		For example, if Mendenhall is drafted in the 3rd round (he was), is injured, and then dropped - any other team that picks him up and puts him in an IR slot gets to keep him as a 3rd round pick the following year.

Maybe that should be the case even if the player isn't placed in an IR slot.

I second this motion or as legge suggested for the top 5 or so rounds.
151leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 16:40 		I understand that it could of been missed, Guru, and I actually may not have been that clear, so, no big deal. Looking back, it looks like I addressed it in post 5 of this thread, but it didn't make it too far in the approval process.
152Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 19:50 		I have no problem bringing this up for a vote. I am not exactly stalling, but I wanted to get the other 2 issues out of the way completely first. Friends of Doug and Hubble: if you could ping them both again and tell them we need one more vote to add that 6th keeper, that would be helpful.

As for the IR morass: I believe this line of thinking where we maintain a player's draft position if he goes on IR, even after he's been waived, is entirely too protectionist a philosophy. Injuries are a big part of this game and we've already acknowledged that by adding an IR spot to start with. That gives managers who have an unfortunate situation with a high draft choice a bit of a break. I'm against giving them any more than that. The IR rule in place will likely cover injuries to star players a great deal of the time. It's not likely 2 star players for a given team are going to go on IR in one season. For example, Da Bomb's IR players are Mendenhall (3rd round) and Burleson (claimed as a FA, 24th round keeper). Now, it's up to him to decide which one he wants to use IR for, and that decision is going to be different for different managers. But the IR rule was created to help him keep his more "valuable" player, which was clearly Mendenhall if you go solely by draft position. The fact that he elected to cut a third round pick rather than place him on IR should be viewed in light of the choice to keep a low round pick instead. If the proposed rule change were in place, it wouldn't have protected Da Bomb any more than the current rule does. It only hurts other managers, and I think someone still would have claimed Mendenhall as a flyer for 2009. He could still be worth a 3rd round pick.

Injuries should and do have an effect on the value of players. Bottom line for me is that players that aren't worth a roster spot (or an IR spot) aren't worth more than a 24th round pick.
153Doug
      ID: 561026194
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 05:33 		AAA
154Hubble
      ID: 35812212
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 17:58 		Sup all,

Sorry if i'm not as active as i used to be... i moved last week and kid #2 is due in 1 week... so its kinda hectic time right now...

Its a shame, as my draft was really strong, i slipped a little in the past weeks. No time to log in :(

A
TB
A

As regard the different issues on the table, the majority will have my vote. A-A-A?
155Hubble
      ID: 35812212
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 18:00 		LOL... i just contradicted myself didn't i? Last line should be deleted :)

A
TB
A

Final answer...
156I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 20:24 		small note to add at this juncture in the season. i find it rather interesting that of the current top 8 (current playoff leaders), that 6 appear to be top performers from last year as well, where as only Leggestand and Hubble seem to be the only two that were heavily affected/improved by the draft (personally I would have expected many more to be "contenders" at this point).
157I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Wed, Nov 19, 2008, 20:35 		another non-important stat to consider, is that last years end of season first to last scoring had a differential of almost 1100 points, whereas this years scoring is almost at ~550 (Half) that. We'll see what the last two weeks hold, but overall a much more close season.
158Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Thu, Nov 20, 2008, 18:28 		With a final tally of 12-2, we've passed a rule adding an additional keeper slot starting in 2009. That keeper must be an IDP if it's used (no more than 5 offensive players or TM DEF's can be kept by one team).

With a final tally of 11 for and 3 "not for" in varying manners, the retroactive scoring rule is passed as follows: Retroactive scoring changes will be allowed if submitted to the Commissioner until 5 minutes before the kickoff of the 1st game of the following NFL week.

The IR question is down to this:
--5 people agree that if a manager picks up a player who is already on the NFL IR, the player may not be placed on that team's (fantasy) IR.
--7 people think that players on NFL IR should available for pickup by managers and that these managers should be able to add the IR player to team IR, but only if an active roster spot is available for the transaction. (the TB proposal).
--1 person feels that any free agent player on NFL IR may be added to a fantasy team's IR at any time, as long as the fantasy team in question does not have a player on fantasy IR already. Further, said player placed on IR is an automatic keeper for the next season and cannot be dropped from the team until after the 1st game of that next season.
--1 person feels a manager should be able to pick up a player on IR but that the player must remain on the active roster until the following week.

2 people voted for the TB plan as a fallback. Since this rule would only require 8 positive votes, the 2 additionals would pass this one.

One of those managers suggested another alternative.
--Any injured player who is picked up after he is on IR retains his draft round from the current year, regardless of which manager drafted him.

Because TB's proposal came after voting commenced, and several other proposals showed up as well indicating different paths of consideration, I'm willing to hold a re-vote on this issue. I think there are too many options right now, however, so I'm going to remove the ones that seemed to receive little support. I want to leave the floor open for discussion first. Anyone who hasn't said their peace, please do it by this weekend. I'll post the question up after that with the final options.
159TB
      ID: 20782117
      Thu, Nov 20, 2008, 19:20 		IAC - I don't think Doug was a play-off team last season either, so three out of six isn't too shabby. We have tough competition in this league, but still there are a few of you that just kick butt in this format. I haven't done so great in this format ever and struggled a bit this year with football depression thanks to my Raiders somehow managing to be even worse than the previous two seasons. I really didn't think it was possible, but the insanity seems to have no bounds where the Raiders are concerned. I'm getting over it and hopefully can refocus in the offseason and be a better manager next season. Yes, I'd like to stick around MC if that is okay.


In regards to IR, we should have a vote for each of those questions. From above, 10 managers are cool with adding a player who is already on the NFL IR to their team IR, so we just need to figure out what we want to add with that.

1. Should a player have to spend one week on an active roster prior to being placed on the team IR?
Yes or No

2. Should a player placed on IR become an automatic keeper?
Yes or No

3. Should a player who is already on the NFL IR prior to being picked up and placed on a gaining team IR retain his draft round from the current year regardless of which manager drafted him?
Yes or No

I think that covers the three questions.
160Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 06:58 		TB, you know you're welcome in this league as long as I'm Commish.

Let's give people a few days to consider, and at that point, I'll re-post those questions for a vote and e-mail the league.

This morning I had to reverse a transaction Doug made last night because he waived a player that should have been locked in (Nate Washington of Pittsburgh). I don't know why the website allowed that move, because players are supposed to be locked for the week 5 minutes before kickoff. Please keep that in mind moving forward. It's not a big deal because I can reverse it, but count this as a reminder of the rule.
161Doug
      ID: 2410402114
      Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 15:42 		Sorry for confusion... my bad. Didn't occur to me that Nate had played Thursday.

I'd like to just change that to Michael Jenkins as the drop instead of Nate Washington, but the site won't let me do it because it put Fujita on waivers rather than putting him back to his former FA status.
162Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 16:16 		I think that Fanball may allow a locked bench player to be dropped.

If so, I'm not sure I see that as a problem - although I don't recall if we've ever clarified that.
163Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 16:28 		With regard to IR pickups -

I'd actually be in favor of a rule that a player already on IR may not be picked up, period. If a drafted player gets injured, is placed on IR, and is dropped by the original team, why shouldn't that player simply go back into the F/A pool for the next draft? Why should some other team - especially one that has the benefit of an available IR slot - get to keep that player as a 24th rounder?
164Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 21, 2008, 16:35 		I'd suggest the follow series of questions, which represents a continuum of possibilities:

Should a player on IR be eligible for pickup?

If so, should he be required to stay in an active (non-IR) slot for the rest of the season?

If not, should he be required to stay in an active slot for at least one week?

If he is kept in an active slot for the rest of the season:
- should he be an automatic keeper?
- should he retain his original draft round from the current year draft?

If he is placed in an IR slot:
- should he be an automatic keeper?
- should he retain his original draft round from the current year draft?

165Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Sat, Nov 22, 2008, 17:13 		Under the Priority Claiming section of the custom rules, the last paragraph states the following:

Starting five minutes prior to the scheduled start of each NFL game, no player in that game may be dropped, regardless of whether the player is an active or bench player.

I don't remember when we put that rule in there, but it wasn't this season. It's been that way since at least last season. Does RIFC not have that rule?
166Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Nov 22, 2008, 17:47 		I don't see a comparable rule in the RIFC. We may have had it at one time, but it does not appear to be listed now.
167Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Nov 22, 2008, 17:54 		Actually, I do see that listed in the rules in the 2008 RIFC thread. Not sure how or why it failed to make the "Custom Rules" section on Fanball - but it appears to be an inadvertent omission.

Perhaps we should amend the rules next year to allow dropping a locked bench player. First of all, I'm not sure what the harm is. Second, it appears that it's not automatically disallowed, making enforcement difficult.
168Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Mon, Nov 24, 2008, 07:27 		Rules to remember heading into the last week of the regular season.

The trade deadline is 12 noon EST on the day before the first game of NFL Week 13 (Wednesday 26 November). Time to finalize any trades you might be considering.

Starting with Week 14:

Players at the primary skill positions (QB, RB, WR) and team defenses may not be added for any reason during the playoffs. Free agents at these positions will be locked out after the final regular season game. You may drop a player at one of these positions, but once dropped, that player cannot be added later.

Players at the other positions (TE, PK, IDP) may be added or dropped according to normal regular season guidelines, subject to playoff claiming priorities, if applicable.

Following the final regular season game, priorities will be reset based on playoff seed, with the top seed getting the top priority. Thereafter, throughout the playoffs, priorities will again adjust only when a claim is awarded.

Teams which are not still active in the Championship playoffs may not make any transactions - adds or drops - even if they are still competing in the Consolation bracket.
169I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Wed, Nov 26, 2008, 09:17 		Fanball won't allow it at the moment, but I'd like to place Brady Quinn on the IR.
170Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Wed, Nov 26, 2008, 11:13 		Thanks for the head's up. Fanball will allow it once he's actually placed on NFL IR. From what I've read, it's still in the speculation stage, despite being a near certainty. The Browns need to pull the trigger before the website will allow the move, though.
171Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 12:46 		There's been enough time to ponder the IR issues. Please vote on the following questions. If the vote indicates a split decision in certain areas, we may have a secondary vote later.

Please answer all questions with your preference given the conditions, regardless of whether you agree with the conditions.

1. Should a non-rostered fantasy player on NFL IR be eligible for pickup?

2. If so, should he be required to stay in an active (non-IR) slot for the rest of the season?

3. If not, should he be required to stay in an active slot for at least one week?

4. If he is kept in an active slot for the rest of the season:
(a) should he be an automatic keeper?
(b) should he retain his original draft round from the current year draft?

5. If he is placed in an IR slot:
(a) should he be an automatic keeper?
(b) should he retain his original draft round from the current year draft?
172Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 13:03 		1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4a. No
4b. No
5a. No
5b. No

Throughout this debate, I've maintained that a manager who loses a star player to NFL IR is taken care of by the IR rule we have in place. If he can't or won't place an NFL IR player on his team's IR, then the player goes back into the Claim/FA pool where anyone has access to him, including his original owner. Even the manager who waives an injured player has the right to pick that player back up and keep the player as a 24th rounder the following season.
173Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 13:28 		With one exception, I'm canceling out MC!

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4a. No
4b. Yes
5a. Yes
5b. Yes

In general, I think that adding a player who is already on IR for the purpose of getting a cheap keeper is gaming the system, and contrary to the spirit of our round-based keeper rules.

If a manager drafted a player who gets injured, he should have the ability to protect that player for the following year via our IR slot. But if he decides to release that player, then I'd prefer that the player is off limits, and simply reenters the draft pool in the following year. There is no skill involved in picking up an injured player (especially one who, if not injured, would not be available) simply to have the option to keep him as a last round pick in the following year.
174TB
      ID: 23109113
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 15:13 		Good points from both of you, but knowing this is a keeper league there is strategy involved in keeping an injured player or letting them go and the same holds true for any team willing to claim them.

1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4a. No
4b. No
5a. No
5b. No
175I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 16:46 		Cleveland Browns.com has Quinn on IR... but Fanball still has him listed as probable. This is getting frustrating, in that I'd like to be able to use that empty roster spot that he'll create before the deadline.
176I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 16:50 		IR:

1. No
2. Yes
3. No
4a. No
4b. Yes
5a. No
5b. No
177Mötley Crüe
      ID: 5810341217
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 17:08 		On the basis of the NFL's transaction list, I've added Quinn to your IR, IAC. I had to do it on the lineup changes page, so you may want to double-check your lineup to be sure it is as you want it. You also should be able to pick up a new player.
178Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Fri, Nov 28, 2008, 19:57 		1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4a. No
4b. No
5a. No
5b. No

I would I'm most against having an IR player be an automatic keeper if picked up.
179Athletics Guy
      ID: 49100293
      Sat, Nov 29, 2008, 04:00 		1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4a. No
4b. No
5a. No
5b. No
180The Beezer
      ID: 261053278
      Sat, Nov 29, 2008, 08:38 		1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4a. No
4b. No
5a. No
5b. No
181GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Sat, Nov 29, 2008, 10:11 		1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4.
(a) No
(b) No
5.
(a) No
(b) No
182leggestand
      ID: 11849287
      Sun, Nov 30, 2008, 09:26 		1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4a. No
4b. Yes
5a. No
5b. Yes

Good posts, and I tend to agree with Guru. Stashing players from the wire on IR seems like it is just taking advantage of the system.
183Doug
      ID: 4410431619
      Sun, Nov 30, 2008, 19:23 		1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4a. No
4b. Yes
5a. No
5b. Yes
184leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Dec 01, 2008, 09:13 		Good votes, Doug.
185boikin
      ID: 532592112
      Mon, Dec 01, 2008, 10:58 		1. YES
2. no
3. YES
4.a no
4.b yes
5.a no
5.b YES
186Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 13:23 		1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4a. No
4b. No
5a. Yes
5b. No
187Mötley Crüe
      ID: 24119220
      Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 21:34 		Playoff brackets have been set. The Championship bracket will not be reseeded each round. Single elimination.

Players at the primary skill positions (QB, RB, WR) and team defenses may not be added for any reason during the playoffs. Free agents at these positions will be locked out after the final regular season game. You may drop a player at one of these positions, but once dropped, that player cannot be added later.

Players at the other positions (TE, PK, IDP) may be added or dropped according to normal regular season guidelines, subject to playoff claiming priorities, if applicable.

The Toilet Bowl format basically matches the other tournament except it starts with only 4 teams. The Toilet Bowl winner gets to pick first in each round of the 2009 draft.

If a playoff game ends in a tie score, the team with the better seed shall advance.

Teams which are not still active in the Championship playoffs may not make any transactions - adds or drops - even if they are still competing in the Consolation bracket.

Claims and waivers will operate normally for teams eligible to make moves. Priorities have been reset based on playoff seed, with the top seed getting the top priority. Thereafter, throughout the playoffs, priorities will again adjust only when a claim is awarded.

As for the voting on IR, the tallies stand as follows.

1. Passed 10-2, Free Agents on NFL IR are eligible for pickup by league managers.

2. Passed 9-3, such IR Free Agents may be placed on a team's IR once picked up.

3. Still undecided at 6-6, whether or not the IR player should be required to remain on the active roster for one week once picked up.

4. Both (a) and (b) are irrelevant since question 2 doesn't require IR players to be placed on the active roster all season after being picked up.

5a. Passed 10-2, an IR player once picked up will not be an automatic keeper.

5b. Passed 8-4, an IR player once picked up via Claims, Waiver Wire, or Free Agency does not retain his original draft spot for keeper purposes.

This means that any IR player not on an active roster may be picked up as if he were a normal Free Agent and kept the following year in lieu of a 24th round pick.

Taxman and Hubble have yet to vote. We'll settle Question 3 once they do.
188Taxman
      ID: 3985420
      Tue, Dec 02, 2008, 23:52 		3. No
189I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Thu, Dec 04, 2008, 19:06 		You might be better off making an "executive decision" w/o Hubble's input, as he has a baby that's due any day now, and he just moved into a new home a couple weeks back... so I doubt he has little time, other than to set a lineup, right now to devote to this.
190Challenger
      Sustainer
      ID: 481126818
      Thu, Dec 04, 2008, 19:16 		I picked up Shawne Merriman, LB, and moved him to IR
191Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Dec 04, 2008, 22:46 		Something about the Merriman pickup still doesn't sit right with me, in spite of the way the voting has gone. This week, there are 6 teams in the league who aren't even eligible to add any players at all. Why should a team that happens to be alive in the playoffs be allowed to pickup an IR player, presumably for the sole purpose of making him a keeper.

I realize that any team could have added Merriman last week - but they didn't. It seems to me that IR players should be ineligible for pickup after the regular season has ended, since some teams are precluded from making any transactions at that point.
192Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Thu, Dec 04, 2008, 23:29 		I got this note from Hubble via e-mail last night:

Wife gave birth Saturday. Sorry I'm not involved more. Count my vote with majority. I don't have time to read about it.

I'm going to count Hubble's vote as an abstention. That leaves the final tally at 6 yeas, 7 nays. Given that the rule in place allowed for a player to be moved directly to IR, there aren't enough votes to change that, so moving forward placement directly to IR will continue to be allowed.

Guru, I seem to remember bringing this up a few years ago in the RIFC. I believe I vigorously disagreed with transactions during the playoffs when it was first suggested. I still hold a slight distaste for them, but other than that, I don't feel like picking up Merriman, who's been on IR all year, is an especially ill-begotten act. I was thinking of picking him up myself, and truth be told, it seems likely to me that if acquiring players was not allowed during the playoffs, someone would have picked him up last week. At this point it's become one of the advantages of hanging around until the end. Everyone knew or should have known going in that the 8 teams that make the playoffs are entitled to make roster moves this week. If someone had wanted Merriman, they would have picked him up last week.

Finally, 99% of all FA IDP's, TE's, and PK's (the ones not on IR) are available to the 8 playoff managers all the way up until those managers are eliminated. Why is it necessary to distinguish all of those free agents from the free agents that happen to be on IR? The only difference I can see is that for the IR guys you can actually use the IR slot to hold them. If a manager still has his IR slot available, I'm in favor of letting him use it, just like I would be any other time during the season.
193Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 09:52 		Well, I'm already on record with my viewpoint that the whole "pick up an IR player as a last round keeper" stinks, so that certainly tempers my attitude.

But the reason to allow playoff teams to make limited moves during the playoffs is to manage those rosters for those final games. I'm fine with allowing the Merriman pick to stand for this season, since there was no rule prohibiting it this year. And perhaps it is something that will happen rarely enough that there's not reason to make a special rule that would have to be manually monitored.

But it appears to me that the IR slot is primarily being used for a purpose that it was never intended for, and I would rather we dropped the slot entirely, rather than proceed under these crazy rules. I really think it undermines the keeper system.

I'll get off my soapbox now - again.

194Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 09:57 		Question on keeper rules.

Suppose I have the top waiver priority at some moment during the regular season. I drop Frank Gore, and then immediately place a waiver claim to add him back to my roster after the 2-day waiting period. Since I have the top priority, I get him.

Would that change him from a 1st round keeper to a last round keeper? And if so, isn't that a clear loophole? Or did we address this already?

It seems as though any player dropped by a team and then re-added before a game has been played should retain his original keeper pick status.
195Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 15:15 		Just did a quick tabulation on the players currently in IR slots.

3 teams have IR players who were drafted by that team (Brady, Maroney, K. Rivers)

2 teams have IR players were were added after the draft, but while they were still active players (Diles, Quinn)

4 teams have players who are picked up after they were injured (Mendenhall, Burleson, Merriman, Kitna)

5 teams have no one on IR.
196I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 18:01 		RE 194: The only way the "Gore" add would work, would be if you did said claim during SF's bye week. Otherwise, you'd end up missing a whole weeks worth of points (Not worth it IMHO) due to trying to drop/add in this matter. Also, you'd waste a #1 WW priority, to add nobody to your team. Therefore, I think it'd still fair game, thus no reason to adjust the rules.
197Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 18:28 		[194 & 196] As long as I had the top WW priority, I could drop Gore on Wednesday, and pick him back up on Friday. No game missed. And if I did it during the first 6 weeks, it would have no lasting impact on my WW priority, either.

Seems like a pretty attractive loophole to exploit, doesn't it? Especially if I start out the year poorly enough to get the top WW priority in one of the early weeks. I wouldn't even have to be in last place, as long as the teams behind me made claims at Wednesday noon.

Maybe I should just keep this to myself, and try it next year.
198Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 18:31 		The caveat is the presumption that the hosting site allows me to immediately place a waiver claim on a player that I just dropped. If not, then the tactic takes on a much higher risk. I don't think Yahoo allows you to immediately claim a player just dropped - but I don't know if Fanball has a similar limitation or not.
199 Mötley Crüe
      Dude
      ID: 439372011
      Fri, Dec 05, 2008, 20:58 		Post [64] and [65] of this thread from last season contemplate the issue you brought up in [194] above, Guru. The solution implemented at that time was that we'd all throw rotten vegetables at anyone who tried something like that. In light of that, I guess it wouldn't hurt to codify a rule prohibiting dropping your own player just to pick him up for a better keeper spot.

It seems as though any player dropped by a team and then re-added before a game has been played should retain his original keeper pick status. Sounds good to me. I don't think this one even needs a vote, but I'll listen to objections.

[I]t appears to me that the IR slot is primarily being used for a purpose that it was never intended for, and I would rather we dropped the slot entirely, rather than proceed under these crazy rules. --[193]

I would be OK with that. I was not in favor of adding IR to begin with, but we just had 10 of 12 managers vote to allow FA pickups to IR, so I doubt we can turn back now. Does anyone else want to scrap IR altogether?

200I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Dec 06, 2008, 08:07 		Well... according to Guru's tabulations... 5 of the 9 IR moves, were indeed done in a way for it's original purpose. For the other 4, well... I don't like the principle as much, but as MC said, we did JUST finish a vote on this.
201Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Dec 06, 2008, 16:07 		I don't really see a need to eliminate the IR, if it can be structured to be used for the proper purpose. But the current structure fails.

Four teams have used it as a means to get a free keeper without having sustained an injury, and without having to use up a roster spot that would otherwise be taken by a regular player. That just seems like such a clear loophole to me that I'm stunned - not to mention dismayed - that the vote went as it did. And I have yet to see one compelling rationale for the vote going as it did.

I'm curious - for those of you who voted to allow the practice of directly warehousing an unaffiliated injured player - what is the reason? Why is this a good idea?

Sorry to be such a pest about this, but I'm flabbergasted by this result. It's not what I would have expected from this group - and I must confess, it really bugs me - so much, that my initial reaction was to consider withdrawing from the league. I've cooled off since then, and I do recognize that it's a loophole with limited applicability. But it's the principle of the thing. It just seems so egregious, that it continues to stick in my craw.

Given the voting results, the proper strategic response next year would be for everyone (with an open IR slot) to scramble to pick up an injured player any time the original team decides to drop one. A free option, and on much better terms (i.e., a potential last round keeper) than the original owner had available. It seems absurd to me. I don't get it.
202I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sat, Dec 06, 2008, 16:17 		I originally voted with you on this one Guru (and still do keep the same opinion), but something that I've started wondering about lately is... why did the team that had said injured player not just stick him on the IR? On a related note... in connection to the IR, do we have the right to drop someone on IR? (if for instance we have multiple injuries, and decided the 2nd injured player was in fact more important to our future than the first)
203Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Dec 06, 2008, 16:28 		Take Mendenhall, for example. The team that had him would have needed to retain his high draft pick if they kept him. An injured Mendenhall may not have been worth keeping for a 3rd round pick, but once dropped, he can be taken by anyone as a last rounder. And, as I recall, that team already had another player in the IR slot.

Once a player is on IR status, it's crazy that other teams can claim him as a last rounder without an active roster spot tied up when the original team can't afford to keep him due to less attractive provisions.
204The Beezer
      Dude
      ID: 191202817
      Sun, Dec 07, 2008, 11:17 		My rationale for my vote was that I prefer fewer restrictions on roster movement as a general principle. If someone wants to pick up Barry Sanders and roster him, I don't have an objection. I hadn't really considered the fact that it is beneficial to drop your IR player anytime you have the top waiver spot when it resets each week and pick him back up to make him a 24th round keeper.

I'm persuaded. To close all of these loopholes available with the current IR rules, I would vote to not allow pickup of IR players from the FA/WW pool. I would also grandfather in all of the moves made to date and furthermore allow those still active to use the IR rules as they have just been voted on so as not to disadvantage them.

Also, to close off the Gore example above, I would make the waiver wire like its real life counterpart and not allow anyone to pick up a waived player until every other team has had an opportunity to claim said player. I'm stating it this way so a team can't waive a bye week player on week 4 and then claim him back with the #1 spot in week 5. Again, I don't think that this is likely to happen, but codifying it doesn't hurt IMO.
205I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Sun, Dec 07, 2008, 20:28 		Well looks like I'm out of the playoffs. After winning the regular season for the 2nd time, I thought I'd cruise through this weeks matchup, but Romo & most of my IDPs failed to show up this week. At least I think I'll be advancing in the RIFC.
206leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Dec 08, 2008, 09:44 		Take Mendenhall, for example. The team that had him would have needed to retain his high draft pick if they kept him. An injured Mendenhall may not have been worth keeping for a 3rd round pick, but once dropped, he can be taken by anyone as a last rounder.

This is the crux of the argument and the reason I agree with Guru (it's also almost the same thing I posted at the beginning of this thread). Relative value of players is the major issue. An original owner of a player is in a no win situation, as he he two options when a player goes on IR:

1. Put the player on IR, but be stuck with this players draft spot if kept the following year
2. Drop the player, allowing someone else to pick the player up and keep as a 24th rounder

Neither option makes the original team better, but one option makes the rest of the league better. Shouldn't every owner be impacted by the same player the same way?
207Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Dec 08, 2008, 10:32 		I'd suggest we reopen the IR situation in the summer (before the draft), when people are more focused. I know we just voted, but the results don't make sense to me.

We added an IR slot to assist a team with an unfortunate injury, and we ended up providing a bigger potential benefit to all teams without injuries.

I still think the best solution is that if a team elects to drop an IR player instead of putting that player in an IR slot, then the player should simply be off limits, and back in the pool for the following year. It gives the original drafting team a simple choice (keep at the original pick, or release), and has no impact on any other team. This way, the IR provides a benefit to the team for which it was intended, and has no impact on a team with no injuries.

Of course, I said that before the vote - and it didn't seem to find much fertile soil. But I still haven't heard a compelling counterargument.
208I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Mon, Dec 08, 2008, 17:33 		I have no issue with re-opening the discussion, and truth be told, I know we all have other issues going on and such, but it'd be nice if we'd have more input (written) from the other 9-10 managers in the league.
209Mötley Crüe
      ID: 251125817
      Mon, Dec 08, 2008, 18:41 		I've been thinking about the loophole problem that boikin brought up last season and Guru mentioned again in 194, and I have a simple solution. No manager may drop a player and then pick that player up again until after the following week's claim period. I don't want to make the rule as strict as requiring a player to keep his draft round when picked up by the same manager because there are legitimate instances where players are dropped, then picked up by other managers and then re-dropped. IAC and I traded Will Witherspoon back and forth a few times this season via the wire.

Once every manager has had a chance to claim a player, though, I think the player ought to be consdiered a true free agent, with the accompanying 24th round value. To me, this should apply to players on IR as well. I just wanted to draw a distinction between using a blatantly dishonest move like invoking #1 priority to shuffle a player's keeper position, and rostering a player (whether on NFL IR or not) who has been through the whole cycle and has been made available to the whole league. These are two completely different kinds of transactions in my eyes.

We have plenty of time to debate the IR rules. I'll make another e-mail plea to the league after the season ends to discuss it on these boards. When we do bring it up again, however, I'm not going to entertain "automatic keeper" questions. That line of thinking was resoundingly defeated in voting, and I think it's too forceful a way to punish behavior we want people to avoid. I'd rather do away with IR than force anyone to keep an IR player. Voting in the fall sounds fine.
210leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Dec 09, 2008, 12:17 		OT:

Guru, I thought for sure my football pickoff performance would warrant a mention in today's blurb, possibly even a hall of fame nomination! Supreme domination for the first time ever!
211Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 01:17 		I thought this was modeled after the RIFC, yet the consolation bracket is different! ;)

Disappointing first season, but I didn't expect much this year after taking over the team. I am though already looking forward to next year as I have some pretty good keeper options with Holt, Burleson, and Urlacher as last round picks, Matt Ryan (14th round), Hightower (9th), Santana, Tony Gonzalez and LJ.
212Mötley Crüe
      ID: 2711531016
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 07:35 		The Consolation bracket actually has significance in this league.

Keeping Holt over Tony Gonzalez last summer was my biggest regret. If I'd had Gonzo all these weeks rather than a mish mash of underperforming TE's, I think my team would have been significantly better. Good luck with that Rams' O next year, da Bomb. For your sake maybe they'll play better than they did this season.
213leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 09:15 		Da Bomb, I gotta commend you for a job well done with the crap team you took over. You definitely have a good set of guys going into next season.
214 leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 09:17 		On that note, I'd also be interested in moving a WR (Smith or Fitzgerald) for a decent RB during the offseason. If anyone wants to start prelim conversations, send me an email.
215I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 10:18 		I'm not quite ready to start looking at next year (just yet), but if I come up with something in a few weeks, I'll send you an offer Legge.

It should be interesting to see if I can manage to field a competitive team again next year, as it keeps getting increasingly harder. I see potential for my team to fall back in the rankings.
216Mötley Crüe
      ID: 2711531016
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 18:22 		Oh, I don't know, David Harris was a nice pickup. As active as you are in free agency, IAC, I think you'll be fine.

You, leggestand, have some phenomenal keeper material.
217I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 18:32 		RE MC: Thx for the vote of confidence... it's just that guyz like Romo/Witten/Grant's values will all end up costing me twice as much as they did this year... yet, I can't say that they have any more (most likely less) value now than they had during this preseason.

That said... yes "activity" has ALWAYS been what has kept me alive in every fantasy game that I play. I currently have 12 players rostered that were picked up during the season.
218I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Tue, Dec 16, 2008, 10:16 		Congrats to MC and Legge for making it into the finals! Two very active managers who deserve a good finish.
219leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Dec 16, 2008, 10:51 		Thanks, IAC. I was actually very close to posting yesterday giving athletics guy my congrats, but held off just in case. Eagles defense putting a 26 and Bradley getting a late interception gave me the game, but I am still surprised I was able to get 36 points from those two.

Good luck in the finals, MC. I have some RB issues with LenDale White hurt and Chris Johnson appearing to have hit the rookie wall. It does look like Addai will play, though, so, I got that going for me, which is nice.
220Mötley Crüe
      ID: 1611201520
      Tue, Dec 16, 2008, 20:27 		Beezer deserves congrats as well for winning the Toilet Bowl, or maybe just our envy for picking first in each round of the 2009 draft.

As a reminder no further transactions may be made other than leggestand and me. Once the result goes final next Monday night, trading can be commenced again throughout the offseason.

Looking forward to a good game this weekend, leggestand. I fear this could be the weekend when my matchups do me in, but I've been pleasantly surprised lately by my players. They've been playing pretty well. Not too shabby for a team of free agents.
221leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Thu, Dec 18, 2008, 18:27 		Hopefully this is allowed considering the time stamp of my post...

I am heading out for the night and won't be able to see if Addai is active for Thursday's game. If he is active, I'd like him to start (I have him starting right now). If he is inactive, I'd like to have the option of using Lendale White or Ahmad Bradshaw on Sunday (to be determined later).

I'd hate to start Addai if he is declared inactive, but I would understand the rationale since he is currently in my lineup.
222Mötley Crüe
      ID: 1611201520
      Thu, Dec 18, 2008, 18:45 		It would be allowed if you weren't playing the Commissioner in the Final, bwah ha ha ha!

I don't want to make a habit of it, but I'll make an exception for an exceptionally active and diligent manager. Enjoy your night out.
223leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Fri, Dec 19, 2008, 09:10 		Ugh, bad start. Addai was active and then didn't step on the field. And then Garrard, Jones-Drew, and Colts D all had good games. I am starting behind the 8 ball in this one.
224Athletics Guy
      ID: 71151918
      Mon, Dec 22, 2008, 00:56 		Congrats MC! I hope I didn't offend Greg Olsen by saying that. Or Leggestand for that matter. :)
225leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Mon, Dec 22, 2008, 09:40 		Congrats, MC. A deserving champion. I'd like to be upset about getting a 0 from Addai and 1 point from Warner, but it wouldn't have been close even if I had my back ups in. Just put up a 200 tonight and make it official that I would of been smoked no matter what.

At least I don't have to pick last each round next year. Maybe I really won, because I will try to take who you want each round to get back at you next season.
226I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Mon, Dec 22, 2008, 10:04 		Congrats MC! Your team really turned it up when it was really important, by outscoring everyone in each of the 3 playoff rounds. Who would you nominate to be your playoff MVP?
227Mötley Crüe
      ID: 1611201520
      Mon, Dec 22, 2008, 10:48 		Thanks, dudes. This season has been a real nail biter for me. I know we don't really have a lot at stake in this league, but you might be surprised to know just how seriously I take the results. For one thing, this is the only league I play in anymore. I devote a lot of time to it, and it's a thrill for me that my work has paid off this year.

I was honestly shocked to make it this far, but timely scoring from the players on my team accounted for this playoff run, which belies a less impressive regular season team. I felt fortunate not to be in the leggestand/Oaktown bracket of the playoffs, and when Challenger took out IAC, that cleared my path of the highest scoring impediments until the final. All of these factors contributed to re-learning one of fantasy football's most valuable lessons: luck is more important than anything else. The corollary is that your team is only as good as your timing. And finally, kickers are worthless.

I guess my playoff MVP was Antonio Bryant, who averaged nearly 22 ppg the last three weeks. He became the Top 10 WR I wish I'd had all during the regular season. Here's to hoping he re-signs with Tampa so I can keep him with confidence.

I appreciate that everyone fought hard until the end. I know you guys have lives and distractions outside of this league and it's not always easy to give a fantasy game a ton of your time. But I was pleased with everyone's efforts 99% of the time this year. Thanks very much for that.

Props to leggestand for having the most improved team by far this season; that's a sick WR corps you have, bro. And IAC deserves congratulations for winning the regular season. Your level of activity in this league (and others) is hard to keep pace with, IAC. That is one of the greatest qualities in this game, in my book.
228TB
      ID: 9116716
      Mon, Dec 22, 2008, 22:36 		Congrats MC. I was really happy to see you win a championship after your current 18 season dry spell. ;)

This league is so tough and to win a championship really means a job well done.
229Doug
      ID: 491150242
      Wed, Dec 24, 2008, 04:05 		Nicely done MC and congrats, you deserve it!
230GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Mon, Dec 29, 2008, 17:12 		Congrats MC.
Good job.
Also to legge, nice big jump.
231leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Tue, Dec 30, 2008, 15:57 		I am in the process of finalizing the roster spreadsheet and have a question regarding the draft order for next year. In post 0, it says:

"The winner of the Toilet Bowl is awarded the first pick in the next fantasy draft.

The other 13 draft positions will be slotted based on the reverse of the final regular season standings (using W/L%)."

So, the winner of the Super Bowl does not get the last pick? Is that how we intended it? My thoughts would be that the first pick is based on the Toilet Bowl and the last pick is based on the Super Bowl, while picks 2 through 13 are based on record, but that's now how we have it set up. I'll wait to hear back before sending out the final spreadsheet.
232Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Dec 30, 2008, 17:26 		I agree that the playoff winner should pick last. Was that how our draft ran this year? Or was the 2007 playoff winner also the top seed?
233Mötley Crüe
      ID: 1611201520
      Tue, Dec 30, 2008, 22:32 		We discussed this several times last season and it appears we never went ahead with a change to what was written. Post [193] of this thread is the beginning of the last discussion we had on the subject.

IAC finished 2007 as the #1 seed and managed to win the championship from that spot. I guess that made it unanimous that he would pick last. And then the rest of the draft order fell into reverse sequence of the regular system (with the exception of Toilet Bowl winner leggestand). I got caught up with the start of the season and forgot to finalize the rule.

Is anyone against using a draft order awarding 1st pick to the Toilet Bowl champ, last pick to the League Champ, and using reverse regular season standings for the rest? I see those who spoke up were for that when we discussed it.
234leggestand
      Leader
      ID: 451036518
      Wed, Dec 31, 2008, 09:17 		I think that sounds good. I just sent around the 2009 roster spreadsheet that everyone should look at. Let me know if there are any mistakes, and I can fix as quick as possible.
235I_AM_CANADIAN
      ID: 466141317
      Wed, Dec 31, 2008, 16:11 		RE 233: Sounds good on the "who picks where" idea.

RE 234: Looks good except for:
McKelvin was dropped in week 2 then picked up in week 4 (thus FA/24th round equivilant)
236Mötley Crüe
      ID: 1611201520
      Wed, Dec 31, 2008, 19:04 		Yeah, I dropped Witherspoon and picked him up again, too. Have to watch for that because it's not evident in the final roster display. You have to go through the transactions pages, of which there are many.
237leggestand
      ID: 521157237
      Fri, Jan 02, 2009, 16:30 		Thanks guys. That's why I need everyone to check their rosters, because I wasn't going to go through all the transactions to look for players that were dropped and then re-added to the same team. I'll make those two changesand wait for anyone else to chime in.
RotoGuru Football Leagues & Standings

View the Forum Registry

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread

Self-edit this thread


Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)

Name:
Email:
Message:
Click here to create and insert a link
Click here to insert a block of hidden (spoiler) text
Ignore line feeds? no (typical)   yes (for HTML table input)

Viewing statistics for this thread
Period# Views# Users
Last hour11
Last 24 hours22
Last 7 days44
Last 30 days77
Since Mar 1, 200754991328