| 0 |
Subject: 2009 RotoGurupie Keeper 14: Preseason Discussion
Posted by: Mötley Crüe
- [45581721] Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 22:12
You should have received an e-mail today inquiring whether you'll be returning to the league this season. For your consideration, the following issues also require disposition:
1. League Expansion. I think we could expand this league by two teams this season. Finding good managers who are interested shouldn't be a problem. There would be significant additions to the rules and the scheduling format would likely be somewhat unbalanced. But a 16-team league is very feasible.
2. Status of players on NFL IR. Last year we had some heated arguments about this. I want to put the question out there one last time and get it settled and then move on. Post 131, second bullet is where the serious discussion on this began last year. I'll open the floor for discussion of this issue for a while before calling a vote. I realize it's still early, so we will probably hold off until August to finalize the answer. Starting the debate now, however, can't hurt.
Finally, if there's any possibility you might not be able to play this season, or if you have any serious draft impediments or conflicts, please let me know. Thanks. |
| 1 | TB
ID: 330252313
Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 00:17
|
I haven't checked my email in a while, but will do so this weekend. I plan on playing.
|
| 2 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 09:27
|
I am also in, and I just sent around the keeper spreadsheet for this year.
I am on vacation from August 7-14, but should have sporadic internet access. IIRC, our draft last year went pretty fast because of the kept players.
A couple of you emailed after the season about interest in Fitzgerald or Steve Smith, as I would like to trade one of them. After Fitz' playoff burst, he is off the table, but Smith is still available as a 2nd round keeper. I am looking for a good (not great RB) in return.
|
| 3 | Athletics Guy
ID: 12412249
Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 23:30
|
Count me in as well. Sorry for the somewhat late reply...been sort of busy with a lot things.
|
| 4 | The Beezer
ID: 58538277
Sat, Jun 27, 2009, 08:39
|
I've been so busy since last season ended that I looked at the draft order and thought "man, I didn't realize I had THAT bad a season that I had to pick first in every round". I didn't remember I actually earned the slot on merit until I was refreshing myself on the IR discussion. :)
Hopefully I can do the same thing legge did last year and spring from Toilet Bowl to Super Bowl this season.
FYI - I'll be on vacation July 11-25 but will otherwise be available in the evenings.
I'll get the ball rolling on the discussion items.
1. I'm initially opposed to expansion because I really like the fact that every team plays every other team the same number of times, and I think the roster size and number of teams have a good balance competitively. I'm open to persuasion on this.
2. After last year's excellent discussion, I'm in favor of prohibiting the pickup of any player on NFL IR. Any team may use the IR slot to place a player from their roster that is officially on IR, with the ability to keep that player the next season with the same rules as all other players.
|
| 5 | Mötley Crüe
ID: 26382717
Sat, Jun 27, 2009, 13:37
|
Still haven't heard anything from Doug, GoatLocker, Hubble, or Challenger. If anyone knows those guys, can you please send them an e-mail to prod them on checking in with us? Thanks.
As for expanding the league to include new teams, the motivation to me is to increase the difficulty of the league. It isn't an easy league, but adding 2 teams takes about 50 more player names off the wire each week, and I think that would be an excellent challenge. That's the kind of challenge managers in this league are up for. One drawback to expansion, however is that we'd have to let those new teams pick first in order to be fair. That would hurt the existing bad teams and truly penalize the Toilet Bowl winner. Since I pick last this season anyway, it doesn't directly affect me much. I think the pros outweigh the cons.
I do like the fact that we play each team twice, but at the end of the day, a schedule revolving around 16 teams is going to ensure we play everyone else at least once, and most teams twice. A little unbalance wouldn't change things all that much. That week you play the team with the 20-2 record he might throw up an 86 anyway. It happens all the time. I would be willing to work on the schedule so that it's somewhat like the NFL; they give playoff teams other playoff teams for opponents to increase difficulty for them. I think that would be one way to mitigate any perceived unfairness an unbalanced schedule creates.
I'm going to hold off on saying anything about the IR rules right now. My opinion is evolving but I want to wait a bit to start shooting my mouth off. I stand ready to live by the opinion of the majority, for sure.
|
| 6 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 00:49
|
I'm in, but emphatically not in favor of expansion. Once injuries hit, I fill we're already scrapping the bottom of the barrel for contributing players and that no longer makes the game enjoyable for me.
|
| 7 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 00:31
|
In!
|
| 8 | Mötley Crüe
ID: 26382717
Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 07:18
|
Hubble has informed me that he won't be able to participate this season and he's withdrawing. Everyone else has checked in and we're all coming back.
Last season when we were looking to replace Sludge, I received several e-mails from interested people. If you read this post and think you'd make a good manager in our keeper league, you can e-mail me. Please include a little bit about your fantasy football experience level (especially relative to RIFC leagues) and feel free to name drop references. I will discuss the decision with other league members before deciding on a replacement. My strong preferences are for a new manager who (a) has played in several RIFC leagues (or several seasons of the same league) and either won them or done reasonably well and (b) has strong support of at least 3 or 4 people already in the league.
This league requires significant online activity during the 24 round draft, which usually starts August 20th or thereabouts. It requires significant knowledge of IDP's (we start 6 each week). It requires extensive weekly management during the regular season for lineup submissions, and claims and waivers processing. And I would really like the new manager to be an active Rotoguru Boards participant, although as long as you are willing to become one, that would be satisfactory. A long term commitment to the league is also a bonus. It is a keeper league after all.
|
| 9 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 09:19
|
Like the few others that have chimed in, I am against expansion.
On the IR option, I agree with Beezer's post 4.
|
| 10 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 13:00
|
No on expansion, indifferent on IR
|
| 11 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 16:44
|
I'm against expansion, more from the standpoint of the necessitated unbalanced schedule than anything else - although taking 6 more RBs out of the pool seems a bit extreme as well.
I suppose with one additional team (15) and doubleheaders, we could split into three 5-team divisions, and play each rival within the division four times plus every non-division rival once. At least that setup has symmetry, although you end up facing your division rivals a lot of times.
However, I think the 14 team setup has worked OK.
|
| 12 | Mötley Crüe
ID: 26382717
Sat, Jul 11, 2009, 15:09
|
I don't think there's much sense in pushing to expand when 5 managers are against it, and some pretty emphatically so. I don't want to make this league unfun to anyone, and I've tried to follow a policy of "enjoyment for as many current managers as possible". With that said, I would still like to eventually add more teams to the league. If anyone against it ever softens on this, please let me know. The way I look at it, as long as we ensure new managers are top notch, the RG Keeper 14 will always be among the most competitive keeper leagues available. I seriously view this as a tough league and I wouldn't mind doing more to make it tougher. At the same time, the 12 of you who are coming back to play with me this fall are the essential core of people that I want to compete with, so I'm not looking to step on your toes.
I see there's been some discussion on the Football Boards (link) about making RIFC leagues Points Per Reception (PPR) scoring. I'm opposed to doing this because I like the hierarchy we create by maintaining RB's at the top of the chain mostly due to position scarcity. If Owen Daniels scores nearly what Brandon Jacobs does over the course of a season, that sounds like a bad thing to me. I can't remember there ever being a big rules change in RIFC since we started RG Keeper 14, but if RIFC were to make a move, I suppose we would need to discuss whether or not to match it. This being a keeper league, it certainly would be a questionable change to make without giving managers a year's advanced warning.
Finally, I've received a few notes from interested Gurupies to fill the vacancy in the league left by Hubble's departure. I'm going to compile an informational e-mail soon and forward to the league managers laying out the applicants and asking for any input you may have. It'll be your chance to have a say in who we add, and I could use any advice you might have. Thanks in advance for taking a few minutes for replying with your opinions.
|
| 13 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Jul 11, 2009, 18:43
|
I'll probably offer the PPR option up for a vote in RIFC, but my sense is that there's not likely to be widespread interest. In any event, unless we make one of the RB slots a flex RB/WR/TE slot, then it really doesn't matter whether Owen Daniels scores as much as Brandon Jacobs, since Jacobs would be in a slot that could only be filled by RBs.
My sense is that this concept is not well understood, but to the extent that any slot is restricted to a single position and vice versa, then it really doesn't matter how that position scores relative to other positions; it only matters how the relative scoring is within that position.
|
| 14 | Taxman
ID: 76501119
Sat, Jul 11, 2009, 20:57
|
I'm in line with no expansion (hrmpff...what if we had to vote on Hawaii and Alaska)
IR question: Rule should allow pick up of any player already on NFL IR at time of pick up...but that player can not be moved to fantasy IR during season. Further, I object to a player on NFL IR beong picked up after fantasy league Play Offs start. (IMHO..Merriman's pick up last year is just wrong..at every level).
|
| 15 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 19:03
|
I'm in line with no expansion (hrmpff...what if we had to vote on Hawaii and Alaska)
What about DC and/or Puerto Rico?
|
| 16 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 136421418
Tue, Jul 14, 2009, 19:42
|
FYI - my internet will be spoty for the next couple weeks, but I'll do my best to check in.
For expansion... I'd rather not, if we do, then I'd prefer if it's only 1 spot. For PPR I'd rather we wait to see what the RIFC is doing.
|
| 17 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 21:49
|
No on expansion.
Let me think about IR, but I'm pretty sure I know how I feel.
|
| 18 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Jul 25, 2009, 10:23
|
I sent out an e-mail to the league yesterday suggesting we start drafting Aug. 27 aiming to finish by Sep. 8-9. The season starts on 10 September. Last year we finished in about 11 days.
If we set the draft start date on 27 August, the keeper declarations will be due on 20 August.
I need to know if anyone is unable to draft on those dates.
|
| 19 | Taxman
ID: 76501119
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 02:35
|
I will have some travel and and w/e "conferences during that time period, but have always been able to work with Cliffy (Goatlocker) and other s to get my picks made timely, anotherwords I'm good with your proposed dates.
Will there be a spread sheet available to compute which keepers will cost which draft picks? Or am I suppose to be smart enough to figure that out on my own??
|
| 20 | The Beezer
Dude
ID: 191202817
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 08:39
|
You should have received an email from leggestand with an attached spreadsheet with that info. Let me know if you haven't gotten it and I can forward it to you.
|
| 21 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 09:00
|
Taxman, I sent the spreadsheet to you just now. Let me know if you don't get it.
|
| 22 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 19:57
|
I'd like to welcome mjd to the league. He's going to be taking over the team vacated by Hubble, which means he'll be picking 10th in the draft.
We had several very impressive resumes submitted, so this was a pretty tough decision. I think mjd is going to make a very solid manager in this league based on what I hear from people who have competed with him in the past. That group apparently includes me, from RIBC qualifying a few years back. I think my memory is going, honestly.
Guru, Beezer, GoatLocker, Taxman, boikin, and mjd have responded that August 27th is good for them to start drafting. I'm also good with it. What about the other 7 of you?
|
| 23 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 20:41
|
Welcome mjd.
That date works for me.
|
| 24 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 21:13
|
No foreseen problem here, but the I wonder how the holiday weekend will effect the timing?
|
| 26 | Athletics Guy
ID: 12412249
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 23:50
|
That date should be fine for me.
Welcome aboard mjd.
|
| 27 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 23:51
|
Hey guys,
Thanks for having me. It's a great honor for me to be accepted
into this league. I've been reading your threads for a couple of
years and I now feel like I have the experience to compete at
this level. How good or bad my team does will not be due to
lack of effort on my part.
Other than the RotoGuru Invitational Leagues and another few
select redraft leagues, I've been looking to join long standing,
stable, keeper leagues, at the highest level of competition. This
league certainly qualifies.
I have several of these teams in football and baseball at varying
levels of competitiveness. Some are competing and some are
rebuilding. All have long and short term plans. I've not studied
this team extensively yet, but I like what I've seen so far and
happy to inherit a team owned by a player of Hubble's caliber.
I'll be spending the time between now and the draft evaluating
my team and making sure I'm ready for the draft. MC has
graciously volunteered to answer any rules related questions
that I may have. Despite having read them multiple times, I'm
sure I'll have a few.
I'm self/semi/unemployed and purposely clear my mostly empty
schedule in August and early Sept for my slow style football
drafts, which I've become to prefer. So most days I'm perched in
front of my computer, reading the latest updates and watching
said drafts. Those days, I'll be available to help out anyone who
needs a text, a phone call, or whatever.
|
| 28 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 10:14
|
Welcome to league, mjd. Let me know if you need the keeper spreadsheet or for a walk through on the keeper rules, as it is not a standard keeper format.
Starting Aug 27th is okay for me. I have an out of town draft on the 28th, but I'll have email access and shouldn't cause much of a delay since the beginning of the draft is typically easier for me. I just won't be as helpful on moving queues along (until the 29th) as I was last year.
Overall, the draft went fairly smooth last year, but I just want to reiterate that you check the keeper spreadsheet before selecting from someone's queue, as we had multiple "incorrect" picks last year (myself included as a culprit).
|
| 29 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 23:47
|
Welcome mjd.
Well, thought I might have some issues with the draft, but can still get into Kafenatid at work.
Just can't get into RotoGuru anymore.
So, we'll just see how long it will last.
|
| 30 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 14:41
|
I just created a new thread to discuss the IR Rules in an effort to keep this thread somewhat clean.
Here's the link: IR Rules Discussion
|
| 31 | Taxman
ID: 76501119
Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 17:00
|
Welcome mjd. You are a great fit for this league.
Thank you MC for resending the spread sheet.
|
| 32 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 18:45
|
Guys, there was a discussion last year about whether we ought to allow a manager to waive a player on their fantasy roster after the player's team had already played for the week (say, a Thursday or Saturday game) up until MNF as long as that player had not been active. I maintain that it should not be allowed. The rules currently state, "Starting five minutes prior to the scheduled start of each NFL game, no player in that game may be dropped, regardless of whether the player is an active or bench player."
Does anyone have an argument as to why this should be reversed?
I prefer the traditional method of locking in players once their teams have played. I think it's a good part of the game that we require managers to decide what to do with a player each week by the time that player's team plays. I believe that should extend to whether or not to waive the player.
The Fanball software allows us to make such moves, but if we elect to continue on with the rule, I'll look out for it to ensure compliance.
Let me know what you think.
|
| 33 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 18:54
|
Guys, there was a discussion last year about whether we ought to allow a manager to waive a player on their fantasy roster after the player's team had already played for the week (say, a Thursday or Saturday game) up until MNF as long as that player had not been active.
I thought the discussion was when a player on a his bye week locks. Otherwise I guess I don't understand what you are referring to.
|
| 34 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 19:06
|
Well, that was actually discussed the year before. Last season Doug waived Nate Washington after Pittsburgh had already played.
Post 160 of this thread begins the discussion.
|
| 35 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 20:44
|
I think the best reason for allowing a benched player to be released after his game has locked relates to having some flexibility for a last minute need on Monday night.
For example, I have a key LB who plays on Monday night. I plan to start him, and I have no other unfrozen IDPs available to start on Monday night. If I discover that my linebacker is a surprise DNP on Monday, I may be unable to replace him with a last minute F/A pickup - unless I dump that player himself.
I realize it's not a compelling rationale, but I'm not sure I see the harm in allowing a benched player to be released to clear room on the roster.
|
| 36 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 23:02
|
Oh, Okay I recall now. Sorry
Rule should remain as is. Surprise DNP's are just an unfortunate part of the game. All of us have had them at one time or another.
|
| 37 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 11:45
|
Might as well get this started.
My tentative keepers are Frank Gore (1), Roddy White (3), Ray Rice (6), Aaron Rodgers (8), Earnest Graham (12), and James Farrior (24).
Among those I'll likely be releasing are the following (with related draft pick):
Antonio Gates (2)
Lav Coles (4)
Devin Hester (5)
Derrick Mason (10)
Jared Allen (12)
Steve Smith (NYG) (20)
Anthony Fasano (24)
There are others as well, but I thought these might be the candidates with the most appeal. I'd deal any of them for a modest pick upgrade.
|
| 38 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 12:57
|
I thought Devin Hester would be an 11th rd keeper selection for the team acquiring him from Guru and Jared Allen a 24th rounder, retaining last years draft round number. Am I wrong?
|
| 39 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 13:02
|
Fanball has changed all old league id's. Here is the new link to our league:
http://fbc.fanball.com/leaguehome/index/15746
|
| 40 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 13:02
|
Since I already kept them last year, this year the forfeited draft pick is cut in half. Anyone acquiring them via trade inherits that same pick, I presume.
Leggestand sent out a spreadsheet in June with updated draft orders.
|
| 41 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 13:17
|
I am well aware of the rule. I didn't think the new owner carried it over though because technically it is a new contract.
|
| 42 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 12, 2009, 15:58
|
Nope. Guru's right. It helps to think of it not as a contract--which could eventually expire--but more like a draft status. The player's draft status stays with him for as long as he's a keeper, whether retained by one manager or traded to another team. Once he is waived or not kept one time, his status is reset in the following draft.
Leggestand's spreadsheet is accurate. I double checked it and it takes all of the previous drafts into account.
|
| 43 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Thu, Aug 13, 2009, 00:33
|
Some players that might be of interest for a small draft pick upgrade are:
Matt Ryan (14)
Nate Burleson (26)
Donnie Avery (26)
Albert Haynesworth (26)
|
| 45 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 13:05
|
27th should be fine for me to start drafting.
|
| 46 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 13:31
|
Whoops, wake up there, Commish. I never finalized the draft start and keeper submission dates. I haven't had any protests over my selections so here goes.
--Keeper declarations are due at noon ET on August 20, 2009. E-mail them to me and/or post them in here.
--The draft will start officially on August 27, 2009 at noon ET.
That means you need to get me your keeper declarations one way or another by Thursday. If you're not sure you'll be around Thursday, you can always send me a provisional list now.
|
| 47 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 13:36
|
[This is an edit of Post 44, which I made earlier today.]
leggestand and I have made a trade.
To leggestand: Rashard Mendenhall (keeper status = 24th round pick)
To MC: Steve Smith (Carolina) (keeper status = 2nd round pick)
It's a straight trade of the players, no picks involved. leggestand winds up getting Mendenhall + he retains his own 2nd round pick, so it evens out a bit more than at first glance.
|
| 48 | Athletics Guy
ID: 10714516
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 14:05
|
Woah, you scared me on the email. It said Aug. 12th, then I noticed it was from 2008. I thought I had forfeited my keepers!!!
|
| 49 | TB
ID: 347411513
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 14:41
|
Post 46 and the email dates don't jive. Can we get confirmation on the date keepers are due and the draft start date. Can someone refresh me on keepers too. Going from Guru's list above (5 offense and 1 IDP) these are my tentative keepers:
Peyton Manning (1)
Clinton Portis (1)
Felix Jones (4)
Pierre Thomas (16)
Jerod Mayo (17)
Lance Moore (24)
|
| 50 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 14:47
|
I'm sure post 46 is the operative one. The email dates are obviously from last year.
|
| 51 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 18:26
|
Whoops. :-o
Heh, yes, post 46 is correct. Sorry for the confusion, and please see your e-mail inbox for an updated message.
|
| 52 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 16, 2009, 19:04
|
My keepers, which I reserve the right to change until the deadline, with keeper round in parentheses:
Maurice Jones-Drew (1)
Michael Turner (2)
Steve Smith (2)
Philip Rivers (10)
John Carlson (24)
Bradie James (24)
Under the keeper rules, I forfeit my 3rd round selection to keep Steve Smith.
|
| 53 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 16, 2009, 22:05
|
boikin just verbally relayed his tentative keepers to me. They are as follows:
Darren McFadden (1)
Thomas Jones (1)
Willis McGahee (1)
Marshawn Lynch (1)
Tennessee Titans Defense (14)
Ed Reed (22)
|
| 54 | The Beezer
ID: 40281619
Sun, Aug 16, 2009, 22:15
|
My tentative list:
Marion Barber (2)
Jon Beason (8)
Baltimore D (11)
Miles Austin (24)
DQwell Jackson (24)
Stephen Gostkowski (24)
|
| 55 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:52
|
My keepers:
Larry Fitgerald (1)
Chris Johnson (4)
Eddie Royal (11)
Kurt Warner (14)
Josh Wilson (24)
Rashard Mendenhall (24)
I am also updating the spreadsheet as the keepers are posted, so, that will go out as soon as all keepers are finalized.
|
| 56 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 15:27
|
Tony Gonzalez (4)
Santana Moss (6)
Tim Hightower (9)
Matt Ryan (14)
Torry Holt (24)
Eric Weddle (24)
|
| 57 | Taxman
ID: 76501119
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 16:44
|
Tenative Keepers
LT (1)
Calvin Johnson (1)
Deangelo Williams (1)
Matt Schaub (6)
Kevin Walter (13)
Sean Jones (24)
|
| 58 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 3626821
Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 21:59
|
Tentative Keepers:
Steven Jackson (1)
Jason Witten (4)
Leon Washington (7)
Steve Breaston (10)
Ryan Grant (12)
Ledois McKelvin (24)
|
| 59 | Da Bomb
ID: 5731180
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 02:19
|
*Trade*
Doug gets: Donnie Avery (24) and Da Bomb's 10th and 11th round picks
Da Bomb gets: Doug's 7th and 12th round picks.
|
| 60 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 12:05
|
Tentative keepers
Brandon Jacobs (1)
Randy Moss (2)
Greg Jennings (4)
Derrick Ward (15)
Lawrence Timmons (24)
Ted Ginn, Jr (24)
Jennings was a previous keeper, so if I understand the rules
correctly, he costs me a third rounder?
|
| 61 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 13:25
|
mjd - The spreadsheet already shows where Jennings was moved to...he was an 8th rounder last year, which made him a 4th rounder this year, so, he only costs you a 4th round pick.
|
| 62 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 14:53
|
Got it, thanks.
|
| 63 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 22:44
|
My Tentative Keepers: Matt Forte (1)Ronnie Brown (1)Drew Brees(2)Vincent Jackson (5)Anthony Gonzalez (7)James Harrison (7) OK, if I understand things right, I'll lose 3 and 6 also. Cliff
|
| 64 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 06:33
|
GoatLocker,
Forte and Brown cost you a 1st rounder, which translates to a 1 and a 2. Brees costs you a 2, but since you already burned the 2, you have to give up a 3. So yeah, you lose your 3.
However, legge's spreadsheet already took this year's keeper status into account, so Vincent Jackson only costs you a 10 and James Harrison costs you a 15.
If you want to look again and see if that changes any of your decisions, you still have 24+ hours to make changes.
|
| 65 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 3626821
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 12:11
|
Where are we drafting from? Kafenatid like last year? I haven't received an invite yet... if your waiting for someone to pony up the $10 for the draft fees, I'll volunteer to cover it for this year.
|
| 66 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 13:23
|
IAC, the new guy beat you to it. I'm just awaiting instructions from
the commish. As soon as he registers for our draft, I'll send
payment.
Thank you, your offer is certainly appreciated.
|
| 67 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 16:27
|
Nice offers guys (IAC and mjd). I appreciate it, as I am sure the whole league does, and gestures like that shows that we have a great group of guys here. We already knew that we were football geniuses, but this goes to show that we have big brains AND big hearts. Haha!
To be honest, I have never really thought about it, but I am certainly open to being put on a list to help cover costs as needed.
|
| 68 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 17:51
|
Yes, we'll be drafting at Kafenatid. I haven't set up the draft yet. I'll do it soon. Hadn't thought much about it yet.
That reminds me. I wanted to contact KKB and ask him about adding a feature to allow me to assign draft picks ahead of time so we don't have so much chaos during the draft with the keepers.
If we're in the same boat as last year, I'm begging you guys to look before you leap. Check the draft spreadsheet that legge will soon be sending out before making selections. Make sure if you are DP'ing for someone, you don't take players that are keepers and in turn be sure to assign keepers when they're due.
|
| 69 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 18:00
|
Re: Post [59]
I haven't heard a peep of protest on your trade, Da Bomb. So assuming Doug agrees, it's legally processed. I'll get to the actual draft pick switching when we start drafting.
For anyone planning to make any changes to their keeper declarations--including actually submitting them in a few cases--the deadline is noon EST tomorrow (Thursday, 20 August).
|
| 70 | Athletics Guy
ID: 207211917
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 18:21
|
Brian Westbrook (1)
Andre Johnson (1)
Tom Brady (2)
Brandon Marshall (2)
Braylon Edwards (2)
Demarcus Ware (9)
|
| 71 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 22:25
|
*Trade*
Athletics Guy gets: Doug's 7th round pick.
Da Bomb gets: Cedric Benson and AG's 9th round pick.
My updated keepers are:
Tony Gonzalez (4)
Santana Moss (6)
Matt Ryan (14)
Torry Holt (24)
Cedric Benson (24)
Eric Weddle (24)
Tim Hightower (9) and Brian Urlacher (24) can be had cheaply if anyone is interested.
|
| 72 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 22:49
|
AG cannot trade his 9th rd pick as he's using that pick for Ware. Correct?
|
| 73 | Da Bomb
ID: 47481921
Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 22:56
|
Good catch. I will re-work the trade with him.
|
| 74 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 00:29
|
Athletics Guy gets: Doug's 7th round pick and Da Bomb's 13th round pick.
Da Bomb gets: Cedric Benson and AG's 10th round and 12th round picks.
|
| 75 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 00:40
|
Unless otherwise stated prior to the deadline, my keepers are
stated as above.
|
| 76 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 00:50
|
Boikin if you see this, please drop me a quick line. I think I sent you an email but not 100% sure I have the address correct.
|
| 77 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 01:19
|
RB - Willie Parker (1)
RB - Adrian Peterson (1)
WR - Terrell Owens (1)
WR - Wes Welker (3)
RB - Darren Sproles (16)
DL - Terrell Suggs (19)
|
| 78 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 06:52
|
Man, I sure missed the action last night.
Post [71-74]
AG can trade his 9th round pick and keep DeMarcus Ware. Since keeper declarations aren't official until noon today, AG still has a 9th round pick, technically. If he trades it, then he has to burn an 8th rounder for Ware. That would be the only difference.
From the rules:
If two players on the same fantasy team are drafted in the same round and then kept, one of them counts as the next lowest (numerically) draft pick in the subsequent draft...
Although this doesn't specifically address that trade, I believe we intended for the rule to cover us in this situation. We discussed how to allow for early trading of draft picks and rather than outlaw it altogether or have any difficult to implement limitations, we agreed to make the rule focus on player keeper status rather than the picks themselves. So you can trade your 6th round pick, but if you keep a 6th round player, you lose the 5th round pick. I obviously need to insert that specifically into the rules. As I said, though, that is how I remember our intent from that discussion. Does anyone's recollection differ? Can anyone think of a way in which such a rule clarification could be abused? We're prohibited from trading picks 1-5 until after keepers are officially set, so that door is closed.
If AG and Da Bomb prefer to maintain the reworked trade from Post 74, that is fine with me as well.
|
| 79 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 09:02
|
I had the same thought, MC.
|
| 80 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 09:08
|
Final keepers (same as previously posted):
Frank Gore (1)
Roddy White (3)
Ray Rice (6)
Aaron Rodgers (8)
Earnest Graham (12)
James Farrior (24)
|
| 81 | Doug
ID: 467191415
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 11:06
|
Boikin trades Ruud and 12th round pick to Doug for 11th round pick.
Doug's keepers are:
A Boldin (2)
K Smith (3)
S Slaton (8)
D Jackson (9)
B Ruud (12)
D Avery (24)
|
| 82 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 12:08
|
Re: 81, this trade has some irregularities with it, so, I want to make sure we are all on the same page.
Doug, you did the following:
(a) traded your 12th round pick to Da Bomb
(b) traded your 11th round pick to Boikin
(c) kept Ruud as a 12th rounder
Under that scenario, Ruud costs you a 10th round pick.
You did trade for Boikin's 12th round pick and Da Bomb's 10th and 11th round picks, but Ruud cannot take those draft spots, because they are technically boikin and Da Bomb's picks, and Ruud cannot fill those slots.
If you want to go through with the trade with Boikin having a loss of a 10th round pick, that is fine, but I wanted to make sure you understood the ramifications of the trade.
|
| 83 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 12:33
|
I think Boikin also traded the 12th pick he gained from not keeping Rudd, meaning Boikin has no 12th pick and Doug gains back the 12th rd pick that he lost when it was traded to Da Bomb.... thus allowing Doug to select Rudd in the 12th.
|
| 84 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 13:19
|
Boikin has his 12th round pick, but Doug gets to choose in that spot. i.e. Boikin has pick 12.02, which has been traded to Doug; Doug's 12th round pick is 12.06, which has been traded to Da Bomb.
Doug now has pick 12.02, which is really boikin's (as Doug's is 12.06). Ruud, since he is on Doug's roster now, can only take pick 12.06 (not 12.02, since that in boikin's draft slot). It opens up a can of worms if we start to allow keepers from teams to hold draft picks from other teams.
Doug has the 6th pick in every round of the draft, except for the following rounds:
List 1:
2.06 - Boldin
3.06 - Kevin Smith
7.06 - Da Bomb's pick
8.06 - Slaton
9.06 - Desean Jackson
10.06 - Ruud (moved up from Round 12 as those picks have been traded away)
11.06 - Boikin's pick
12.06 - Da Bomb's pick
24.06 - Avery
Doug has also received the following picks:
List 2:
10.03 - from Da Bomb
11.03 - from Da Bomb
12.02 - from Boikin
These are two seperate lists, and a keeper from list one, cannot take the place with a pick from list two.
Does that make sense?
|
| 85 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 14:45
|
When I typed Post [78] I was imagining a huge can of worms opening. Clearly we’ll have to be more specific in our rules going forward. We’ll get to that, but for now, I want to explain why I believe the boikin/Doug deal is OK the way it was announced and how Doug winds up getting to keep Ruud for a 12th rounder.
The rules: Each player chosen in Year X and kept in subsequent years will require a manager to forfeit a draft pick in the corresponding Year-X-draft-round the player was chosen in for the year X+1 draft.
Now, that passage is not strictly applicable to our situation, but it is relevant. It shows that we intended for managers to keep players in exchange for a draft pick. In other words, we never intended the draft pick to be identical to the player’s, only that it come from a certain round. Obviously, if a manager has 2 picks from one round, and he decides to keep a player drafted last year in that round, the manager sacrifices the exact pick (his own, not one traded to him).
But if a manager acquires a pick via trade, I’m not clear on why he shouldn’t be allowed to use that trade as a forfeit to keep the player.
What we need to prevent is someone trading their 6th and 7th round pick, and then trying to keep a 7th rounder when he already has 5 keepers in rounds 1-5. While it might be a rare occurrence, there is a loophole. The manager would get 6 keepers that should cost him picks 1-6, but wind up costing only 1-5 + 8. That is clearly not right.
Leggestand’s [81] also assumes that what we brought up this morning should be part of our rules structure: namely that you can keep any player as long as you have a lower (numerical) pick to sacrifice for him if you trade the pick from that player’s round. While I totally agree with the sentiment, we need to make a ruling on that. It’s not completely cut and dried.
How about this example? On August 1, a manager trades for a player with 10th round keeper status. On Keeper Declaration Day, the manager keeps that player, plus 3 of his own players from last season requiring forfeiture of rounds 9, 10, and 11. Since he’s forfeiting round 10 and both straddling rounds already, which pick does he have to give up to keep the newly acquired player he traded for on August 1? 8th round? 12th round? Is either option fair? Not exactly, but I would argue that if he is willing to give up the 8, I would allow that trade. I think we should stipulate that in the rules. My suggested language: “If a keeper requires forfeiture of a pick in a round that a manager does not have, then forfeiture of the next lowest (numerically) available pick shall be required to keep the player. If no lower available pick exists, the player cannot be kept by that manager and must be released upon keeper declaration.”
|
| 86 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 15:36
|
I don't want to hold up the process of declaring/finalizing keepers, but I disagree with concluding that Boikin and Doug's trade is fine as is. Post 85 says:
Obviously, if a manager has 2 picks from one round, and he decides to keep a player drafted last year in that round, the manager sacrifices the exact pick (his own, not one traded to him).
I almost completely agree with that, BUT, the proposal for Doug and Boikin is to do the opposite of what is said above. Ruud is now on Doug's team, and yet he is being held in Boikin's draft spot. Using the language above, shouldn't Da Bomb now get Boikin's 12th round selection since Doug should sacrifice his own pick, not the one traded to him?
I would be fine with that if that's the conclusion, as Ruud would take a spot in Doug's roster, and Da Bomb moves up four spots in the draft to 12.02 from 12.06, which I am sure would be fine with him.
So long that Ruud takes a spot in Doug's draft (i.e. as the 6th pick in a round), I am okay with it.
|
| 87 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 18:41
|
This reminds me: since our trade rules require a 24-hour waiting period, I want to add a rule for next year that all pre-keeper trading of players and picks should be completed 24 hours prior to the keeper declaration deadline. If I had legitimate protests of this boikin/Doug trade (I don't), we'd have to sit on it for a few days to get it resolved. Maybe we just need a mini-moratorium in the 24 hours leading up to the keeper deadline--as soon as it passes managers may trade again. We need to put that on the agenda, too.
OK, legge, I do understand what you're saying. That doesn't make me feel like a manager shouldn't be able to sacrifice a draft pick he got from someone else to keep a player, though. Before we start up in Kafenatid, I'll go through and swap all of the picks that need swapping. When pick 12.02 rolls around in the draft, Barret Ruud gets assigned to it. He'll wind up on Doug's roster. Da Bomb gets what he was promised, boikin gets what he was promised, and Doug gets something for what he gave up.
Is there any harm to it? Is there a loophole I'm missing or a way to abuse the situation?
|
| 88 | Taxman
ID: 76501119
Thu, Aug 20, 2009, 20:36
|
Final keepers (previously posted as tentative:
LaDainian Tomlinson (1)
Calvin Johnson (1)
Deangelo Williams (2)
Matt Schaub (6)
Kevin Walter (13)
Sean Jones (24)
|
| 89 | Doug
ID: 3630123
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 09:15
|
I just checked in and have to rush off to work, but I assumed I could use the 12th rounder from boikin since it is an equal or better pick than my original slot in that round. If it had been a later pick, then I would have had to move earlier.
Basically, the way I thought about it was that Ruud cost my 12.06... but since that pick isn't available then it costs me my "next best" pick... normally this would be an earlier round, but in this case it's actually 12.02.
That was my understanding of the "spirit of the rule", although I didn't read the "letter of the rule"... so technically it appears he would indeed cost me my 10th round pick. Adding to the confusion here was that my pick with Da Bomb was going to be 7th for 9th (rather than 7 and 12 for 10 and 11)... but he was keeping Hightower at the time... but then we thought we were going to switch back... but that didn't happen... but basically I thought I'd be covered either way (with either my original or replacement 12th round pick).
Anyway, I'll go along with whatever the league decides.
|
| 90 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 09:43
|
MC and I have chatted, and have agreed with his (and Doug's) interpretation that the spirit of the rule is that if you don't have a spot to keep a player, you sacrifice your next earliest available pick (in Doug's case, the 12th rounder received from Boikin). The Keeper spreadsheet should be going out soon, and I highly recommend you review your roster and picks, as there was a lot of trading that occurred this offseason.
I apologize for putting a rut in the process, but I thought it was something we needed to discuss/clarify, and with that being said, Erik and I will work on tightening the rules a little bit should this situation arise again. But, as I said, the likely verbiage of the rule will be to allow what has happened on the Doug/Boikin transaction.
|
| 91 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 10:18
|
The Keeper spreadsheet is out, and there are some interesting tidbits to take from it:
1. Athletics Guy goes the longest without a pick, as he does not pick until Round 6. 39 players will be chosen before AG gets to pick
2. Beezer has 6 of the first 44 picks
3. Da Bomb has 3 of the first 9 picks
4. Beezer is the only manager to keep more than one IDP (he kept two). Of the 15 IDP's kept, none was a DL
5. Every round has a keeper designated in it except rounds 18, 20, and 21
6. Boikin kept 4 first rounders and Challenger kept 3
7. Two Team Defenses were kept
8. Three TE's were kept
9. One Kicker was kept
10. There are only 3 picks open in the 1st round, 4 picks open in the 2nd round, 6 picks open in the 3rd round, and 6 picks open in the 4th round (19 picks open out of a potential 56).
|
| 92 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 13:26
|
I mis-spoke on point 4 above...one DL was kept: Terrell Suggs.
|
| 93 | Hubble
ID: 267422119
Fri, Aug 21, 2009, 20:42
|
just stepping in to say hi and good luck to all, good luck mjd! i'll cheer for u :)
|
| 94 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 11:35
|
Do you want us to go in and drop the players that we did not keep on the site?
Cliff
|
| 95 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 22:27
|
GoatLocker, that would be great if managers could do that.
I'll plan to set up the draft tomorrow so we can be ready to roll this Thursday.
|
| 96 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 3626821
Sun, Aug 23, 2009, 22:46
|
FYI - Fanball gives me this message when I go to add/drop players: "Claims are currently in progress."
|
| 97 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 09:35
|
Same message here as IAC got.
|
| 98 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 14:01
|
OK, thanks for the heads up. I think I made the correct change to the league config to allow for managers to make drops, so please try again at your convenience.
|
| 99 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:20
|
I've dropped all my non-keepers, which included Steve Smith. MC, you are going to need to pick him up and send Mendenhall my way. Other players that need moved around include Ruud, Benson, Avery, and possibly a few more.
For right now, I think there are a couple things we need to focus on:
1. Getting all the rosters up to date on Fanball
2. Start the logging in at kafenatid. I know this usually takes 24-48 hours to get everyone signed up and in, so, we should probably start that process soon. Plus, with all the trades that need to be processed, that may take some time as well.
As an aside, it is very interesting to see who was kept and dropped. There are some good players out there that were dropped, which favors those with early draft picks.
|
| 100 | Doug
ID: 467191415
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:47
|
Dropped my guys too... but need Ruud and Avery added... tried proposing trades but that didn't seem to work.
|
| 101 | Doug
ID: 467191415
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 16:50
|
Re: post 91... I checked a few email accounts and didn't see it... can you please send to account in this message?
|
| 102 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 17:01
|
Doug - I just resent it to the above address. let me know if you didn't get it.
|
| 103 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 19:20
|
I just reviewed my Kafenatid e-mail and I realized that I needed to send it to you guys to get you registered. So I just forwarded it (twice in fact--sorry about that but I had a mail admin reject notice and wasn't sure if it went out).
I can't swap all of the picks in Kafenatid until we all get registered, so once you're all in, I'll do that. And speaking of trades, the one announced in post [74] passed with no comment, and since neither manager asked me to revert back to the one mentioned in post [71], I went with the later version. I'll make the update to Kafenatid once we get everyone in there.
As a reminder, please pay careful attention when drafting at Kafenatid. Last year proved that keepers can trip up even the most aware of us. If you aren't absolutely sure that you're free to make a pick, just double-check leggestand's spreadsheet. This year's draft is likely to be especially tricky because of all of these pre-draft trades of picks. With that said, I love all of the trading. It defintiely spices things up.
When we get to round 12 I want to take things very carefully. That trade between boikin and Doug is going to require some Kafenatid calisthenics. There are only 3 picks that need to be made in round 1--all other picks are occupied by keepers. Keep that in mind before clicking submit.
And please, if you notice an error, speak up immediately. It makes it very difficult to go back and fix things if we don't catch them right away.
I appreciate everyone working to make things go smoothly this year. leggestand deserves special recognition for his efforts, but also because he has been promoted to Co-Commissioner. This requires you to add some language similar to "sir" or "highness" when addressing him in the future. Thanks. That is all.
|
| 104 | GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Mon, Aug 24, 2009, 23:22
|
Registered and all players dropped.
Let's do this.
|
| 105 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 09:47
|
I am all set as well.
|
| 106 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 3626821
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 18:30
|
Registered and all players dropped.
|
| 107 | Mötley Crüe
Dude
ID: 439372011
Tue, Aug 25, 2009, 18:44
|
We just need Challenger and TB to sign up at Kafenatid and then I'll set the order and open the draft. The time limit won't start until Thursday (27 August) at noon ET. It will be an 8 hour clock and the clock will not run from midnight to 7 AM ET. If we start to bog down, I'll look at shortening the clock, but knowing you guys the way I do, I doubt we'll need to do that.
Let me know if you have any questions or problems during the draft. I'm here to make things smooth for you.
|
| 108 | TB
ID: 533492313
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 00:07
|
I'm signed up for Kafenatid and have released all my non-keepers at fanball.
|
| 109 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 13:37
|
I have overall pick #5 (not counting keepers), and will be out tomorrow until 6pm-ish. I'll try to fashion a 5-player queue in advance - as long as the draft is activated before I leave tomorrow morning (7-ish).
|
| 110 | leggestand
Leader
ID: 451036518
Wed, Aug 26, 2009, 13:44
|
I have started a Rotoguru Keeper 2009 Draft thread here, so, once the draft clock is started, let's move our discussions there.
|
|
|
|
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
|