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Subject: TSN Ultimate Hoops Is Up.
Posted by: reebbertxx2001
- [27112610] Tue, Sep 11, 2007, 18:58
This is alot earlier than last year if I remember right. Prizes are down again.You have to finish top 75 to get cash, although they pay tokens for other places. |
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| 26 | reebbertxx2001
ID: 108352516
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 02:01
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Per the TSN message boards
Hey guys,
We do not have the resources to add live scoring or draft and trade to hoops this year. Jeff would best be able to field the question "why not".
I will lower missed Free Throws to -.5 and keep everything else the same. Thanks for the help.
Good luck next season.
coutram
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| 27 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 13:51
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I have updated the sortable stats and player pages with new prices, new players, and the new schedule. I think everything is working OK, but there are a lot of moving parts - particularly with the schedule projections in hoops - so please keep a wary eye out for anything that looks to be off.
A few notes:
1. TSN initally had rookies all priced at $5m, which was clearly premature. They have since removed rookies from their published database. In order to keep them visible for now, I have included them all with their originally posted positions and a draft price of $100,000 - which is clearly not going to be their actual price. When actual prices are updated, I'll make the changes.
2. As noted above, the point formula is slightly different this year, as missed free throws are worth only -.5 instead of -1. I have not adjusted the prior year stats to reflect this - so my points will not correspond to those shown at the TSN site. Of course, I will use the new formula when calculating points this year.
3. The Assimilator is not yet updated. I'll work on that shortly.
4. Some player links (to RotoWire, RotoWorld, & NBA.com, for example) will be incorrect, particularly for rookies. I'll work on updating these during October.
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| 28 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 14:34
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OK, Assimilator is up as well. Same caveats.
Preseason schedule will appear in the schedule look-ahead section. You can change it to the regular season by clicking on the link just above the schedule grid and selecting 10-30 as the start date.
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| 29 | Bond, James Bond
Donor
ID: 04352469
Wed, Oct 03, 2007, 23:52
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Thanks Guru. However I can't see the price for Iverson, A. Miller, Harrington or S. Jackson. Maybe it's just me...I dunno.
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| 30 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 10:26
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Oops. The listing I pulled off the TSN site seems to be missing about 30 players, including Iverson.
I figured out a way to get them, however, so I hope the current listing is complete.
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| 31 | Chuck L.
Leader
ID: 02722619
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 13:59
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Guru
-- Regarding the 30 players, you initially showed no price for them, but now show them at $5 million (except Iverson). If this is what is shown in the TSN site, it's clearly a mistake and will change.
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| 32 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 14:22
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Not clearly a mistake. In fact, nothing is clear - excpet that TSN's quality control is lacking.
If I generate a list of players (at the TSN site) using 06-07 stats, I get 426 names. If I select 07-08 stats (which are all zero for now, of course), I get 469 players. The larger list includes Iverson at $9.2m, and 42 players listed at $5m. While that might be an inappropriate price for some of those players, it doesn't necessarily seem unreasonable for many others - including Steve Blake, Al Harrington, Mike Dunleavy, Stephen Jackson, Alonzo Mourning, Troy Murphy, Joe Smith, ...
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| 33 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 14:23
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Here's the complete list of the 43 discrepancies:
Allen Iverson
Louis Amundson
Steve Blake
Earl Boykins
Will Conroy
Ike Diogu
Juan Dixon
Mike Dunleavy
Melvin Ely
Devin Green
Anfernee Hardaway
Al Harrington
Jason Hart
Julius Hodge
Robert Horry
Luke Jackson
Stephen Jackson
Casey Jacobsen
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Anthony Johnson
Eddie Jones
Fred Jones
Keith McLeod
Chris Mihm
Darius Miles
Andre Miller
Alonzo Mourning
Troy Murphy
Andre Owens
Scott Padgett
Josh Powell
Jeremy Richardson
Bernard Robinson
Kareem Rush
Bobby Simmons
Joe Smith
Awvee Storey
Bob Sura
Robert Swift
Jake Tsakalidis
Dajuan Wagner
Chris Webber
Eric Williams
Iverson is listed at $9.2m, everyone else is listed at $5m.
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| 34 | Blooki
Sustainer
ID: 449292712
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 22:29
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Seems like TSN is still nailing down the prices for players who missed a significant portion of last season or changed teams.
My question is: if they're drafted at today's prices, what happens to your team when their prices change? $50mil FV anyone?
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| 35 | Chuck L.
Leader
ID: 02722619
Thu, Oct 04, 2007, 22:41
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Perhaps it would have been safer if I had said "should" rather than "will." TSN has done some crazy pricing in the past, but (and I know you agree) there are a LOT of guys on this list who are second and third string players that should be priced MUCH lower than $5 million. Hopefully, someone on TSN staff reads your Message Forum and will get it right.
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| 36 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 039541913
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 01:14
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The reality is that none of the players like Iverson or the rookies who are currently priced at $5M can actually be added to your team. If you buy them their spot on your roster remains empty.
I emailed coutram about all the discrepancies Guru outlined above and he replied that TSN is aware of them. He is working to get them dealt with in the next few days.
I think TSN made a mistake opening Hoops so early, before they had time to check out all the anomalies.
coutram closed his email by saying, "I assure you we are committed on sewing up these games and get them to a high standard. That's not a tag line, that's a personal guarantee."
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| 37 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 10:06
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Actually, you can buy them. I successfully added Webber to one team yesterday, just to see what would happen.
The $5m cash was deducted. If I leave the roster display on the default page (06-07 stats), his name does not appear. But if you switch to the 07-08 stats, he shows up where he belongs.
As to what happens if you own a player in the preseason whose price is revised: In football, this happened with some players. They removed repriced players from all teams that owned them (and restored the original cash). So it had no impact on roster value. It did, however, invalidate any preseason work you might have done on assembling an affordable roster.
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| 38 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 039541913
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 12:32
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I got the following communication from coutram: "I requested the feed from stats to put the players on the right teams so that should be done sometime early next week. Those missing players should be in the game now. The rookies will be added to the game on the 17th."
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| 39 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 14:18
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It's still pretty much a mess. If I run the same report two different times, I get slightly different results. For example, sometimes Iverson is listed, sometimes not.
I'm going to stick with what I have for now, and hopefully by the 17th, they'll have sorted out the glitches.
I also see that they have Eddie Griffin listed for $5M, and his status is listed as "healthy".
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| 40 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 039541913
Fri, Oct 05, 2007, 15:59
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Were you thinking of putting Griffin on your team? :-)
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| 41 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Sun, Oct 14x, 2007, 16:50
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You knew you get an extra trade, if your team is valid on Oct30 b4 11pm ?
DL'ers you are warned.
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| 42 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Sun, Oct 14x, 2007, 16:52
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yea that change isn't that bad compared to what they did to baseball I'm still considering it. One thing which worries me tho is they say first trades are given out 11/13. Thats to weeks into the season. Going to be hard whether u start with 4 or 5.
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| 43 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Sun, Oct 14x, 2007, 17:03
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that i think, but also certainly hope is just a mistake.
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| 44 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Sun, Oct 14x, 2007, 17:42
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yea thats what I hope too. There have been questions on the message boards but TSN people haven't answered them. It used to be just in the game rules but now the 11/13 date is also listed on the homepage which has me a little bit more worried.
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| 45 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Sun, Oct 14x, 2007, 17:58
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so i asked again dpr.
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| 46 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 039541913
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 11:59
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I got this email from coutram after I asked him about the first trade refresh on 11/13:
"This will be addressed today but historically we front load the first week trades and then give out trades the second week. The season this year starts on Tuesday which makes it seem longer than in past years. Our customer service team will address this but this model has worked for the game in past years. Our fear is the scattered schedule to start the season will affect price movers too much so keeping the trades the same will help with regard to that.
"I understand your concerns but we think this is in the best interests of the managers playing."
I think his reasoning is faulty. If you do as well, you can email him at coutram@sportingnews.com
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| 47 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 12:14
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email sent, i cant agree on this, 15 days before new trades, that is insane.
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| 48 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 12:56
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his reply....
"This will be addressed today but historically we front load the first week trades and then give out trades the second Tuesday in the season. The season this year starts on Tuesday which makes it seem longer than in past years (if the season used to start on Thursday you ended up getting trades 10 days after). This model has worked for the game in years past.
I'd just like to emphasize that nothing has changed on our end with regard to when we give out trades. Thanks for the email and I hope this clears up any concerns you have.
-coutram"
Looks a lot like the reply Dunkenstein got...
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| 49 | dpr
ID: 1733917
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 13:40
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i too sent an email..
hi coutram,
I just wanted to make a comment about giving out the first trades on 11/13. I have heard your stance and know you plan to address this today but i feel it would be a mistake to wait this long for extra trades. Historically you may have waited until the second week to give out trades but with the season starting on a tuesday this means a very long period with only a few trades. With the season starting on a sunday it may work to skip a tuesday but going 15 days with 4 (or 5) trades does not seem like the best idea. IS there a past precedent for what happens when the season starts soon after trade day? I can't imagine a game has ever gone 15 days without additional trades.
I think giving the additional trades makes sense from a competitive and enjoyment perspective. I worry some of the less experienced managers may lose interest if they can only make a move once every 4 days to tart the season. Especially managers with poor initial teams will struggle. From a competitive standpoint I feel that by by waiting so long for trades you further limit the initial player pool that people are choosing from. With this set up a manager needs to focus on only players who have long term solid schedules (you can't get a guy with a good schedule for like 2 weeks because you can't gaurentee you will have the trade to get out of him with having to get on trains in the meantime). Limiting the viable player pool is never a good way to encourage discrepancy among teams.
At the very least I think a compromise needs to be considered where 2 trades or something are given out on 11/6 however I would prefer the full 4. I believe that many experienced managers agree with me on this stance.
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| 50 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 13:54
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Guys, I made a poll about this on the tsn forum, I all invite you to go vote and/or leave your opinion.
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| 51 | Dave R
SuperDude
ID: 3010361110
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 13:59
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I have been emailing them as well and one point I made was that last season started on a Tuesday as well, and we got new trades the following week, not 2 weeks later.
I'm sure they are aware of the concerns and think it will work out.
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| 52 | Blooki
Sustainer
ID: 449292712
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 14:03
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I think this is a matter of misunderstanding rather than genuine disagreement.
Historically, this is absolutely NOT what TSN has done. I believe they are responding to these emails thinking that we're clamoring for 4 trades to be given out after opening night and oblivious to the fact that their advertised first trade refresh date is actually two weeks into the season. So rather than try to negotiate with TSN (i.e. asking for 2 trades instead of 4) or starting polls/petitions, I think somebody should just tell TSN to double-check if we're on the same page here and fix the mix-up.
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| 53 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 14:08
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The season this year starts on Tuesday which makes it seem longer than in past years.
That's wrong. The NBA season has always started on a Tuesday - at least for many years.
And TSN has always given out the first dole of trades after the first full week in Hoops.
In baseball, when the season starts on a Sunday, they have skipped the first Tuesday. But that has never been the case in Hoops, because the NBA season always starts on a Tuesday.
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| 54 | angryChair
ID: 100501014
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 15:12
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Ultimately if they stick with the 13th then it will be the SAME for
everyone----I would like the trades on the 6th too-----but I
will adjust accordingly if they do not make the change. Makes
that every year thread that reads: "THE VALUE OF A TRADE" even
more interesting to read this year!
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| 55 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 15:45
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I have got news, I emailed back and forth with coutram, and they realize that they're wrong in their reasoning, and they will discuss it today... ill keep you updated.
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| 56 | Dave R
SuperDude
ID: 3010361110
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 17:42
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They have seen the error of their ways. This is on the site now:
When do I get new trades?
After 11pm ET on the first day of the season (Tuesday, Oct 30th), the unlimited trading period ends, and you start the season with 4 free trades in your account. Every Tuesday at 11pm ET (starting on Tuesday, November 6th), your team will be awarded 4 more trades.
Also note, and this was there before:
If you have a valid roster by Tuesday, October 30th at 11pm ET you will receive an extra trade.
This is an attempt to discourage or deter day late teams.
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| 57 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Mon, Oct 15, 2007, 18:05
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That's great news! It's also encouraging to see that TSN listened to the community and corrected what would have been an unnecessary negative impact on game balance. Thanks for your efforts, guys!
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| 58 | qwert
ID: 15912114
Tue, Oct 16, 2007, 22:48
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rookie prices are up. durant 8 mill.
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| 59 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 08:05
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I updated all players and prices based on current listings at TSN.
Some active players were listed in a previous version but are now missing:
Devin Green
Anfernee Hardaway
Robert Horry
Casey Jacobsen
Chris Mihm
Darius Miles
Alonzo Mourning
Andre Owens
Kareem Rush
Bobby Simmons
Awvee Storey
Bob Sura
Robert Swift
Dajuan Wagner
I dont know if these players are all active, but many are.
Sortable stats and Assimilator are now updated.
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| 60 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 15:51
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one of the administrators had this question/inquiry(see on tsn forum):
What are your opinions on all Ultimate Hoops trades going out at the beginning of the season instead of weekly? This wouldn't be changed this year, but it's something we would consider for the future.
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| 61 | qwert
ID: 15912114
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 16:16
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i wouldn't play anymore. changes the game completely.
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| 62 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:24
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That would be disastrous change IMHO which I believe would destroy the game. Will tempt impatient managers to blow all their trades prematurely for 15 minutes of fame. And as such will increase rate of managers quitting mid-season because all their trades are spent.
I'd say "Don't try to fix something which isn't broken"...
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| 63 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:26
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Actually, it used to be done that way. When I won it in 97-98, we got 50 trades for the whole season, all available from the beginning. (Yep, just 50!)
My sense was that they changed it in order to make sure teams could stay active throughout the season.
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| 64 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 18:36
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[59] The missing players have been added back to the game.
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| 65 | qwert
Donor
ID: 2910242819
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:37
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re 63
If I'm not mistaken, which I might be since I only started playing
around 2000, the game was free back then and played by a
considerably larger number of people.
With participation dwindling, I think that change would lead to a
paltry number of active teams by the end of the year.
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| 66 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 19:50
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I dont like that idea that much either, im with Soulman's reasoning.
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| 67 | Jack Hammers
Donor
ID: 236482918
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 21:25
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I've been to decide whether to play this year or not. This is the first time I've looked at this thread and I gotta tell ya, none of this looks very encouraging. Sounds like its a mess I don't have near the time it takes to do well at it anyway but its been such a great game....
Probobly buy one team and just struggle through the glitches
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| 69 | angryCHAIR
ID: 29955918
Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 23:25
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I played SmallWorld way back when when you received all your trades at once and actually liked it. When it switched to weekly trades I cannot remember the year) I hated it, but eventually got used to it. Both ways work. It seems that changes are good, because it forces us all to change our strategies a bit.
And yes, it was free back then too--and I was actually in the top 10 a lot early----But also still finished in the top 50 and top 100 a few times.
I think change is good.
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| 70 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 039541913
Thu, Oct 18, 2007, 01:14
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#67
Many of the glitches happened because they launched the game several weeks before they normally do, and weren't fully prepared. To their credit, I feel TSN has responded to the issues that have been raised and the glitches seem to have been rectified.
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| 71 | Chuck L.
ID: 12917118
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 13:37
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I agree that the glitches have been fixed. For purposes of discussion, one change I would like to see made for next year is to go back to the days when there was a fixed (earlier) trade deadline rather than game time deadlines. It's irritating to feel compelled to hang around the computer at game times to see if one of your players (due to unannounced injury or whatever) won't be playing. It's also a disadvantage to those who aren't able to do this. And as most of us know, even if you can do this, it can be very frustrating.
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| 72 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:34
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I absolutely second what Chuck said regarding the trade deadline. Not only would a fixed deadline (e.g. at 1200pm ET as in past seasons) do away with the disadvantage that managers outside US timezones have, it also would stop the ever-changing Yahoo starting lineups from mocking us over and over. Just ask Senator about his story with Dre Miller and the Yahoo lineup... ;)
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| 73 | angryChair
ID: 100501014
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 14:54
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#72---Agreed (mostly), but no matter what, the East Coast has
the advantage due to time change on a Noon EST trade deadline.
Make it Noon (PST) instead......
Still a 3 hour advantage, but not one that is as early as 9 am on
the west coast.
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| 74 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 16:08
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the deadline was better for my health that is sure.
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| 75 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Fri, Oct 19, 2007, 16:33
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#73
Noon in *any* of the US timezones would be fine for me. As deejay says, it would be much better for our health than this gametime trading madness, which for us Europeans means tipoff between 1 am and 4 am... ;)
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| 76 | Tequila
ID: 46941223
Mon, Oct 22, 2007, 05:41
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i agree, a fixed deadline would have a lot of benefits for my health, sleep and whatever.
A 12pm East could be too early for someone but a fixed deadline starting with the beginning of the first game of the day should be all right i think.
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