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0 Subject: Dirty Dozen Experts Draft - Round 6+

Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Mon, Oct 15, 13:49
For an introduction to this draft and to follow the development of the first five rounds, see this thread

Here's a recap of the draft so far:

Round 6
1. Fabiano - PJ Brown

Round 5
1. Fabiano - Sam Cassell
2. Klyce - Mike Bibby
3. Liss - Wally Szczerbiak
4. Bond - Rashard Lewis
5. Gonos - Reggie Miller
6. Slotnick - Keith Van Horn
7. Doolittle - Jason Terry
8. Ludwig - Darrell Armstrong
9. Roberts - Danny Fortson
10. Cummings - Juwan Howard
11. Hall - Kenyon Martin
12. McRae - Larry Hughes

Round 4
1. McRae - Van Exel
2. Hall - Ben Wallace
3. Cummings - Predrag Stojakovic
4. Roberts - Michael Finley
5. Ludwig - Jalen Rose
6. Doolittle - Andre Miller
7. Slotnick - Brian Grant
8. Gonos - John Stockton
9. Bond - Steve Nash
10. Liss - Baron Davis
11. Klyce - Eddie Jones
12. Fabiano - Terrell Brandon

Round 3
1. Fabiano - Antawn Jamison
2. Klyce - Raef LaFrentz
3. Liss - Stephon Marbury
4. Bond - Glenn Robinson
5. Gonos - Jermaine O'Neal
6. Slotnick - Shareef Abdur-Rahim
7. Doolittle - Theo Ratliff
8. Ludwig - Marcus Camby
9. Roberts - David Robinson
10. Cummings - Antonio Davis
11. Hall - Lamar Odom
12. McRae - Jamal Mashburn

Round 2
1. McRae - Mourning
2. Hall - Francis
3. Cummings - Pierce
4. Roberts - Kidd
5. Ludwig - Wallace
6. Doolittle - Jordan
7. Slotnick - Stackhouse
8. Gonos - Marion
9. Bond - Payton
10. Liss - Grant Hill
11. Klyce - Karl Malone
12. Fabiano - Elton Brand

Round 1
1. Fabiano - Shaq
2. Klyce - Bryant
3. Liss - Duncan
4. Bond - Garnett
5. Gonos - Nowitzki
6. Slotnick - Webber
7. Doolittle - McGrady
8. Ludwig - Iverson
9. Roberts - Carter
10. Cummings - Walker
11. Hall - Allen
12. McRae - Mutombo
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115Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 11:51 		I just read that Coleman missed last night's game due to tendinitis in his knee.

The long shot just got a bit longer....
116johnglad
      Donor
      ID: 3712010
      Tue, Oct 23, 14:39 		Of the centers you have listed Kwame Brown obviously has the most "upside potential" since he is the #1 draft pick playing with Michael. That being said, he did just come out of high school... I totally agree with you that these late draft picks are simply people to look at for a few games, see if they stick, and if not then dump them to the waiver wire to plug other holes on your team, fill scheduling quirks, etc.
In other news, Scott Williams (on your available center list) was just traded to Denver today. Not sure whether that helps or hurts, his team is now condsiderably worse, but he may get more playing time (Lafrentz is in Denver). I'd probably just take Kwame Brown and wait and see after that. Most of those centers look like certain waiver wire guys for almost the whole year. Good luck, your team looks very competitive in my opinion.
117chris
      ID: 149552212
      Tue, Oct 23, 14:40 		CanEHdian Pride - just so you know i clearly dont like your attitude and you are just plain lucky that you can cop it on the computer because we all know you wouldnt do it in person
119havenbros
      Donor
      ID: 54930129
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:34 		Aahh, the first opportunity of the basketball season to honor the proven tactic of ignoring a$$holes. I acknowledge that this reply itself fails to abide by that rule, but I thought it worthwhile to do so. I've only been a participant on these boards for a year or so but I saw enough trash-talking to last me quite a while early last year before someone helped everyone understand that the worst thing you can do is take the bait of people like Chris who aren't going to contribute anything positive to the forum (at least not if you respond to the crap they prefer to spew). I promise that I won't have anything further to say in response to such rants and I ask the rest of you to swallow your pride, stifle your need to enlighten the ignorant and simply refrain from responding to self-promotions and threats.
120Ender
      ID: 52438315
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:36 		Well said.
121Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 23, 15:38 		For some strange reason, the saying "Don't feed the trolls" keeps running through my head...
122Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Tue, Oct 23, 21:31 		From the list I would take Cato because he HAS to play this season. Especially after the Marc Jackson fiasco and if Kevin Willis is injured. (I think he is)
123YOUNGBUCK
      ID: 209352320
      Tue, Oct 23, 21:35 		stop taking things personal chris.
124Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 06:31 		Round 12
3. Erick Dampier (Cummings)
126CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Wed, Oct 24, 08:01 		Sorry fellas but I have never been too good at ignoring trolls. Especially the ones that like to talk a big game.

Thing is the attitude that you claim I've "copped" is the same one I'd "cop" here or anywhere else. Thing is, you annoy me. I've only seen you post 2 things at the boards and they've both been about the same thing. Question is, can YOU back up the attitude that you've copped. Here it is chris, if the CBS guys haven't been enough competition because of your unmatched knowledge of the game I'd like to throw a challenge out a to you. Me vs. you in Smallworld Hoops, loser leaves the boards. You up for it?

Hope to hear from you soon!
127Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 10:32 		Round 12
4. Corey Maggette (Roberts)
128Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 10:37 		Round 12
5. Jahidi White (Ludwig)
129Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 12:23 		Round 12
6. Ruben Patterson (Doolittle)
130Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 13:36 		Round 12
7. Tim Hardaway (Slotnick)
131Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 14:11 		Round 12
8. Tony Battie (Gonos)
9. Zeljko Rebraca (Bond)
132Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 07:37 		Round 12
10. Rodney Rogers (Liss)
11. Rick Fox (Klyce)
133chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 09:43 		Guru - excellent draft!!! I have checked out the other rosters (generally) and I would say you are probably in the best shape, and definitely in the top 2 or 3 teams. I'd put my money on your team right now. As far as the center goes, I'd take Pollard. With Webber out for a full month, Pollard has the potential to put up very respectable numbers. If a starter of your went down he could step right in and perform, and he may even be decent trade bait to a team with a weak center slot. I understand the Kwame thinking, but I don't anticipate him getting enough PT to warrant a pick.
134Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 11:01 		Based on my modeling, the other two teams that look strong are those of David Klyce and Mark Bond.

League rosters

I believe we have clarified the position eligibility rules. Players are eligible for any position at which they are listed at NBA.com, and they cannot lose that eligibility if the listing is changed at a later date. In addition, a player can gain position eligibility if he starts at that position for 10 games. I believe we are relying on the player statistical splits at ESPN to track this.

So there is a chance that Cliff Robinson will gain eligibility at center. That would add some flexibility.

Overall, my weakest stat appears to be FT%, in spite of Ray Allen. The culprits are Ben Wallace, Kenyon Martin, and possibly Odom (who shot only 68% last year!) At this point, I may only finish ahead of the team with Shaq. My overall point scoring may also turn out to be in the lower half.

There are a couple of ways to deal with a weak stat. One is obviously to look for ways to improve it, but that can be a very tricky balancing act. Improving a FT% stat often comes at a cost of reduced rebounds and blocks, and the tradeoff may be unattractive.

The other is to concede the category entirely. If the league is well balanced, it will not be necessary to produce well in every category. And by punting on that stat, I may have better opportunities (via trading or free agnecy) to improve in the other stats.

In either case, it's not necessary to make that decision now. I can wait a few weeks to see how the stats are actually emerging. Early injuries or disappointments could radically change the picture.
135Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 11:56 		Round 12
12. George Lynch (Fabiano)

Round 13 (last round)
1. Chucky Atkins (Fabiano)
2. Jumaine Jones (Klyce)
136Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 13:51 		Round 13
3. Jake Tsakalidis (Liss)
4. Fred Hoiberg (Bond)
5. Dana Barros (Gonos)
137Aris3
      ID: 399161218
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 14:35 		Guru - your DC pick turned out to be great. Now DC will be a starter until he screws up. (Unless you knew something about the trade when you picked him.)
138Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 15:37 		or until his knee buckles...
139Ref
      ID: 1442849
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 15:45 		Or he gets a hangnail ;)
140Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:15 		Round 13
6. Scott Williams (Slotnick)
7. Scot Pollard (Doolittle)
141CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:23 		Well I'll try to give some advice once again.

Harrington is still out there, but another player I like this year is Wesley Person. He should help your 3 pointers and is an 80% FT shooter. Just a thought.
142CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 18:24 		Also, Person is listed as a G-F.
143jumpball
      Sustainer
      ID: 0922620
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 21:20 		EH -- based on his roster, Guru has to draft a C.

I'm wondering if Scott Williams might be a good pick since he'll get minutes in Denver and might be needed to replace some Dice points.
You could use him in week 2 when he has a good schedule while Ben Wallace will be just watching.
144Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 22:04 		Round 13
8. Rodney White (Ludwig)
9. Kelvin Cato (Roberts)

Scott Williams was taken a few picks ago.
145Shelby-villian
      ID: 261146232
      Thu, Oct 25, 2001, 22:48 		Take Ilguskas and stash him and then pick up
someone else off waivers. Someone will look
good once the season starts...
146krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 01:51 		who is the better pick? kobe or allen?
147miguel p
      ID: 37883020
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 14:40 		um, i think they've both been taken already . . . someone gambled on them a few rounds ago. : )
148krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:11 		oh i know, i just don't understand how allen fell so far in the draft. guru, you're lucky, personally, i think allen should have been taken in the top 5 or 6. but my question is, who do you think is the better pick, if you had the choice to pcik kobe or allen?
149DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:17 		Kobe for sure
150Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:21 		Allen vs. Kobe. I score it a virtual tossup. Perhaps Allen should get a slight nod because of durability. But I couldn't really argue against either choice.

Why did Allen go so late in our draft? I think it is because his value is embedded in some of the stats which are not as recognized in the real world - namely 3 pointers and FT%. In an experts league, you would think that this value wouldn't go unnoticed. But based on some of the player analysis I've seen from some of these guys, I'm not convinced they all appreciate all of the nuances of our scoring method. (Some of them clearly do, though.)


151krackmark
      ID: 18950245
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:30 		ok just making sure, i'm new to this whole rotisserie style of scoring, i have always done smallworld, but now that you have to pay, i needed to find somethin else. now i have to change my whole concept of what i need to do, 13 drafts? i really am kinda lost after the first 6. hehe. i guess i need to do more research.
152DR Stars
      ID: 162592010
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 15:44 		Guru- I believe Kobe's improvement year-to-year are more dramatic, and this year he'd pass Allen even in any kind of league, I'm looking for MVP-numbers from him.

Disclaimer: I'm a die-Hard Lakers fan since 1980.
153fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:02 		hey guys is there anyplace where i can get stats on the bad stuff? like turnovers, technical fouls and rejections? i can't find anyplce that has them
154Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:47 		fgamedawg - Some magazines have turnovers and disqualifications. There also some hardcore text databases on the web, but the ones I knew have been discontinued.

These stats have been banned from nba.com and espn. They represent what's evil about the game...
155fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 17:49 		haha, your kidding me right? that is such junk.
156chuckball
      ID: 507352011
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:02 		Try

http://home.rmi.mindspring.com/~doug/
157Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:08 		Thanx for the link. Doug Steele is always a good source. And someone else mentioned Dean Oliver and the JoBS in another thread today.

This brings back memories of days with lots of free time...
158Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 18:57 		Round 13
10. [absent] (Cummings)
11. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Hall)
12. Eddy Curry (McRae)
159Aris3
      ID: 199591911
      Fri, Oct 26, 2001, 23:51 		Guru - do you really think that Z will ever play again?

He's played 29 games in 3 years and his legs and feet are only getting worse.
160Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 08:56 		Long shot. But I'll just stuff him in an IR slot for now, and then pickup a free agent when I need an active player.
161chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 9992720
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 22:17 		Again, excellent draft Guru. Z was probably the best pick available considering that you can put him on IR. I had one question for fellow gurupies. I am drafting in a league tomorrow night with the same rules, except that turnovers are a category and there are 15 teams. How would this change your analysis. I have the 1st pick. Would you guys be looking at Garnett or elsewhere? I know centers are going to be so thin, so I'd like to take a center, but can't justify taking one with the 1st pick. Any thoughts? Thanks and good luck to Guru.
162BoNkA
      Donor
      ID: 46314305
      Sat, Oct 27, 2001, 22:54 		There should be some decent centers sitting around later in the draft as was the way my draft today went. I was able to pick up Ben Wallace pretty late in the draft after picking up LaFrentz early (almost a wasted pick) along with J. O'Neal in the middle. But Wallace looks to be a good center to pick up later because he rebounds a lot, blocks shots, and apparently gets a ton of steals according to CBS sportsline...
163fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 18:06 		15 players? oh really? the draft woudln't be at 10:30pm would it? if it is, i would suggest you pick up cedric cebollos for your first pick ;)
164chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 19:56 		fgame - not the same league, but c.c. does look like a good pick.
165fgamedawg
      ID: 38982616
      Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 20:59 		i assume u were joking with the c.c. comment, i can't tell if ur being sarcastic. anyway, for the t.o. category. i wouldn't worry too much about it. as long as you keep an eye out for them. just don't create a team with too many to/pg. if ur worried about picking up someone like iverson, kidd, francis because of their to, i wouldn't sweat it. they're good outweighs the bad.
166chizz1
      Donor
      ID: 257452123
      Mon, Oct 29, 2001, 15:31 		fgame - yeah i was being sarcastic. The only thing I tried to do with the turnover category was shy away from stackhouse, antoine walker, etc. Thanks for the advice and good luck in your league.
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