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Subject: Shrub says, "We do not torture..." Posted by: sarge33rd - [148422311] Mon, Nov 07, 2005, 12:20 then ummm, explain to me why you feel the need to 1) oppose legislation banning torture and 2) request an exception to that legislation on behalf of the CIA. If we "dont do that", we dont need tooppose or gain an exception to any prohibition of "doing that". Bush says "We dont torture" | |||||||
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| 358 | Frick ID: 4945458 Tue, May 19, 2009, 14:27 |
I only watch soundbites shown on other shows. Do the other 3 ever appear any better than Hasselbeck? They might be saying something you agree with, but the reverse of Hasselbeck could be applied to the other three (left-wing blog reading, talking point mimicking noise generators) | ||||||
| 359 | Building 7 ID: 471052128 Tue, May 19, 2009, 15:38 | Many people follow the savvy political insight of Whoopi Goldberg. I know I do. | ||||||
| 360 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 17:41 | Whoopi, Barbara BS, Pelosi, Garafalo, Franken...get these girls out on the comedy circuit. | ||||||
| 361 | Tree ID: 41371322 Tue, May 19, 2009, 18:32 |
still smartin' that Franken beat your boy fair and square. i'm sure when Coleman finally admits defeat, you'll turn on him and call him a RINO as well. but hey, if you're pleased to have Hasslebeck speaking for you, well, so are we. and of course you'd be proud of her. she regurgitates the same stuff you do, and doesn't use her brain either. | ||||||
| 362 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 19:08 |
the only reason i still read these threads is to see what non sense boldwin is going to post today - Boikin Any hands of those who drop by to be enlightened, amused and delighted by Tree? | ||||||
| 363 | Seattle Zen ID: 49491918 Tue, May 19, 2009, 19:40 |
FNC sat Alan Colmes next to Sean Hannity specifically for the purpose of making leftist talking points sound weak. I don't think this is a similar situation. Hannity & Colmes is a spectacle, it's the Harlem Globetrotters. Hannity plays up the crowd, plays "keep-away" with Colmes, bounces the ball off his head, and dunks on him and the crowd laps it up. It is no more a political discussion than a Globetrotters show is a actual game. I've never seen The View outside of clips, but I believe it is a variety show for women that happens to go on forays into politics. Hasselbeck may be a lightweight in political commentary, but perhaps she tested best overall. | ||||||
| 364 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 19:53 |
She's more an occasional voice of common sense when the lefties go waaay off the deep end. Not really conservative. Plus she is quick on her feet, the only one there not intimidated by Babwa, and a comedian. Viera wasn't remotely conservative either but had enuff common sense that between the two, you could bare listening. Not that I listened for more than a cumulative 60 minutes a year. Or 30. | ||||||
| 365 | Perm Dude ID: 174121611 Tue, May 19, 2009, 20:34 | She's not really a voice of common sense, either. | ||||||
| 366 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 21:07 | Compared to the others? Yeah. | ||||||
| 367 | Perm Dude ID: 174121611 Tue, May 19, 2009, 21:17 |
Compared to common sense. Forget the others--this isn't a comparison to anyone on the show. I wouldn't excuse anyone on the show from a series of pointless factual errors because someone else (or even anyone else) on the show are somehow just as bad. You shouldn't either. | ||||||
| 368 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 21:20 |
I don't tolerate it. Why I tolerate this place... | ||||||
| 369 | Perm Dude ID: 174121611 Tue, May 19, 2009, 21:34 |
If you are making the argument that Elizabeth Hasselbeck is anything other than an empty gong you'll lose that argument. Even you see, I'm sure, that the only way you'll "win" the argument (i.e., successfully come to the rescue of a conservative voice) is by doing an comparative argument. Better just to sit out the Elizabeth Hasselbeck problem entirely. | ||||||
| 370 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Tue, May 19, 2009, 21:55 |
She's not a conservative voice. She's only conservative when contrasted with crazy people.
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| 371 | Razor ID: 583182923 Tue, May 19, 2009, 22:55 | Does she sound like the voice of common sense in that clip? Or any other clip you've seen of her? | ||||||
| 372 | Mith Dude ID: 01629107 Tue, May 19, 2009, 23:56 | Boldwin is telling us about crazy people. | ||||||
| 373 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Wed, May 20, 2009, 05:17 | I do know berserk. | ||||||
| 374 | Boldwin ID: 26451820 Wed, May 20, 2009, 05:24 | Surrounded by it. | ||||||
| 375 | Perm Dude ID: 174121611 Wed, May 20, 2009, 08:13 | Which makes her the "voice of common sense?" You really don't want to go there. | ||||||
| 376 | Building 7 ID: 471052128 Wed, May 20, 2009, 09:09 | I'd rather be good looking and not know anything about politics than not good looking and not know anything about politics. | ||||||
| 377 | Perm Dude ID: 174121611 Wed, May 20, 2009, 10:29 | You'd probably get ahead that way. Especially if you didn't pretend to know anything about politics! | ||||||
| 378 | boikin ID: 532592112 Wed, May 20, 2009, 11:49 | Any hands of those who drop by to be enlightened, amused and delighted by Tree? I am but tree usually needs to be provoked before he comes out with something silly. | ||||||
| 379 | Tree ID: 41371322 Wed, May 20, 2009, 12:38 |
I am but tree usually needs to be provoked before he comes out with something silly. that got a legit LOL, in several different ways. thanks boikin. | ||||||
| 380 | Mith Dude ID: 01629107 Fri, May 22, 2009, 07:48 |
Jeff Goldberg:I asked [Senator McCain] about Dick Cheney and his defense of Bush Administration torture policies. He told me of his fundamental disagreement with Cheney: "When you have a majority of Americans, seventy-something percent, saying we shouldn't torture, then I'm not sure it helps for the Vice President to go out and continue to espouse that position," he said. "But look, he's free to talk. He's a former Vice President of the United States. I just don't see where it helps." | ||||||
| 382 | Tree ID: 41371322 Fri, May 22, 2009, 08:35 |
i am really being tickled by the current run of Boondocks repeats. if there is a feeling these offer nothing to the forum, please let me know.
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| 383 | Tree ID: 41371322 Fri, May 22, 2009, 19:53 |
Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture for those of you not able, or unwilling, to read the article, here's the video. it oughta provide enough for those of you who only want to read "choice parts" in an attempt to "eventually get the tone." | ||||||
| 384 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Sat, May 23, 2009, 14:46 |
I listen to that show about an hour a week and actually caught the first half-hour of that show but not when they were actually doing it. All of three al queda leaders have been waterboarded. It prevented a terrorist attack in LA. It is torture. If you actually find and post relevent and interesting stuff like this more than once a lifetime, I'd give you more respect, Tree. | ||||||
| 385 | Tree ID: 51457238 Sat, May 23, 2009, 14:52 |
If you actually find and post relevent and interesting stuff like this more than once a lifetime, I'd give you more respect, Tree. i'm not looking for respect from you. your actions and words here for the last several months show that respect from you doesn't amount to much more than a mound of refried beans - which you'd probably try to have deported anyway. sorry baldwin, i know your ego is huge, and your hubris mighty. but really, i couldn't give a damn about your respect. | ||||||
| 386 | Mattinglyinthehall ID: 37838313 Sat, May 23, 2009, 15:04 |
It prevented a terrorist attack in LA. No, it did not. | ||||||
| 387 | Mattinglyinthehall ID: 37838313 Sat, May 23, 2009, 15:13 | While B is perusing the righty hate blogs for the Library Tower propaganda, I'll leave this here waiting for him. | ||||||
| 388 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Sat, May 23, 2009, 15:48 |
Apparently three and under is fine for Baldwin. Which Gospel is that in, I wonder? | ||||||
| 389 | Razor ID: 583182923 Sat, May 23, 2009, 16:21 | It really is confusing trying to follow Baldwin's arguments. So, waterboarding is torture, which is wrong, but it was okay in this instance because Bush administration officials lied about it foiling an attack in LA? | ||||||
| 390 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Sat, May 23, 2009, 16:26 |
And we should trust the government. Unless there is a Democratic President, in which case we can assume that we will be lied to over big and small things, they will balloon the size of government, grab at power over and above what they already hold, trample on our rights, and use the message of fear to try to bully people into supporting them (apparently through guilt, if nothing else). Does that clarify? | ||||||
| 391 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Sun, May 24, 2009, 08:52 |
Sunday soldiers the day after the attack... Edging over to stand with the terrorists and throw stones at the USA and it's defenders the next. Same as it ever was... ...since 1968 anyway. | ||||||
| 392 | Tree ID: 41371322 Sun, May 24, 2009, 14:01 |
since 1968 anyway. this is one your problems at the core. you're still fighting a culture war that started over 40 years ago. most of america have moved on. additionally, that clip is just another false example. we keep hearing the ticking time bomb scenario brought forth by the Right. i saw that episode of 24 as well. but in real life - ya know, where most of us live - that scenario has not yet exhausted, and you choosing to ignore posts 386 and 387 doesnt change that. not the first time MITH (or something else on this board, for that matter) has challenged you, and proven you wrong, and instead of responding directly or admitting your error (your faux-christian hubris again), you go in a completely different and not terribly related direction. | ||||||
| 393 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Sun, May 24, 2009, 17:01 |
Baldwin is always fighting 1968. His video also pulls jump quotes out of context. He also seems not to realize that Schumer (a guy I really don't like, frankly), is talking about two different things: Whether to use torture in some very limited circumstances, and whether people who make the call to do torture should face the consequences of their action. | ||||||
| 394 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Sun, May 24, 2009, 20:58 |
Schummer and Cheney were on the exact same page when it was politically expedient for Schummer. This is not apples and oranges. Cheney was talking about limited circumstances. Schummer was talking about limited circumstances. | ||||||
| 395 | Tree ID: 41371322 Mon, May 25, 2009, 00:34 |
and you're talking about non-existent circumstances. care to counter posts 386 and 387? or are you going to continue to act as if they don't exist? | ||||||
| 396 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Mon, May 25, 2009, 00:48 | Baldwin, again you miss my point. I wasn't arguing that Schumer and Cheney were saying two different things (they are not--Schumer matches Cheney's in the first point Schumer is making). I was saying that Schumer is making two different points, and that your refusal to even recognize the fact demonstrates the extent to which you will lie to yourself and others | ||||||
| 397 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Mon, May 25, 2009, 08:55 | Of course he is making two different points. They are two different clips. | ||||||
| 398 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Mon, May 25, 2009, 09:01 |
The first point being that in extraordinary cases virtually all congressmen from both sides would approve torture. And then when they do waterboard in three extraordinary cases... [out of how many detainees? What percentage of the time would that be?] ...well we need to gleefully prosecute, tho innocent before proven guilty of course. | ||||||
| 399 | sarge33rd ID: 53455255 Mon, May 25, 2009, 10:14 | and what of those we have detained, tortured etc for years; without ever prosecuting them Boldwin? You argue on the one hand to continue detention of the unconvicted and then lament the investigation of those who have all but confessed to their crimes. | ||||||
| 400 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Mon, May 25, 2009, 10:28 |
in three extraordinary cases You have no idea how many were waterboarded. Neither do I, but it was more than 3. When people break the law, including Republicans, we do, indeed, need to prosecute. | ||||||
| 401 | Building 7 ID: 9329258 Mon, May 25, 2009, 12:03 | All they have admitted to is 3. And all of them were 911 patsies. They just made up what they said, or got them to "agree" with the story they were told. And that story filled in the blanks to what happened on and before 911 and is a big part of the 911 Commission Report. | ||||||
| 402 | Tree ID: 41371322 Tue, May 26, 2009, 10:24 |
still running from 386 and 387 Baldwin? ok. cool. just checking. | ||||||
| 403 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:41 | Here your argument is destroyed...well not your argument. You aren't capable of making a coherent argument. Here Mith's cut-and-paste of the liberal talking points for the day are demolished. | ||||||
| 404 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:53 |
Destroyed? I'm sorry--where did you find the information that waterboarding was necessary to disrupting the plot? A nascent plan to "destroy" the Library tower is busted, so early in the process that the "ticking time bomb" scenerio is simply dreamed up by Cheney (and his bootlickers) as an after-the-fact reason for multiple waterboarding of prisoners under our control. Sad. Very sad. You have absolutely no argument, so you continue, zombie-like, so make the argument but with more feeling this time. You don't even seem to care that some of your later points actually remove earlier points you were trying to make. | ||||||
| 405 | Boldwin ID: 133532810 Tue, May 26, 2009, 21:23 | You just couldn't run that past your blocking, could you? Try again. | ||||||
| 406 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 01:51 |
GOP leaks classified information to show that torture was effective Bad on many levels, but I think the first to come to mind is: What dupes have the Republicans turned into, that they would reveal closed-door intelligence briefing information of what the CIA said about the effectiveness of their own techniques? Seriously--did they expect the CIA to say anything different? This is a group of professional liars--playing a bunch of politically-motivated politicians must have taken the CIA all of a single lunch hour to plan. | ||||||
| 407 | Perm Dude ID: 154552311 Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 14:08 | Rep Hoekstra: Leaking classified intelligence information is terrible, terrible! Unless I do it. | ||||||
| 408 | DWetzel ID: 33337117 Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 00:44 | http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/30/accountability/ | ||||||
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