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Subject: Ahmadinejad in, ROTC out
Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [47161721] Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 10:36
Dinesh D'Souza usually makes my skin crawl, but he makes a very cogent point in this article.
But if Columbia can make room for Ahmadinejad, Columbia can make room for ROTC on campus. This absurd double standard of kowtowing even to the enemies of America, while blocking the military and other politically incorrect institutions, has got to stop and stop now. Columbia and other universities should be just as open to ideas from the right as they are to ideas from the left and from the Islamic radicals.
Part of the problem is labeling the ROTC as an idea of the right. Maybe it's true that the military will become completely associated with the right, but that could lead to serious problems down the road. Why are these universities so adamant about prohibiting students who wish to ponder a career in the military, as if it's not a noble calling?
It's tough agreeing with D'Souza, and there's some inevitable liberal bashing for the sake of liberal bashing in the column, but overall, I agree with the premise.
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| 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 368192311
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 10:53
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I don't think it is an either/or, but I agree that if campuses are enriched by a variety of viewpoints than ROTC deserves a place.
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| 2 | Tree
ID: 3533298
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 11:19
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they're two completely different issues.
Almadinejad is a horrible human being. but, one thing that separates our country from his is freedom of speech, and if he wants to speak about his hateful ways, that's his right. it's also Columbia's right to provide a forum for him if they so choose.
now, regarding ROTC at Columbia.
only two of the Ivy League schools - Cornell and Princeton - offer access to ROTC. And even then, you have to enroll through an affiliated college/university.
it should be noted that this isn't really any different than what Columbia actually does offer, ,that being the option for enrolled Columbia students to participate in ROTC through nearby schools like Fordham University and Manhattan College.
this seems like more of the bile and attempts to divide that has worked so well for the Right for the last several years.
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| 3 | Pancho Villa
ID: 47161721
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 11:37
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Nice find, Tree. That does change the dynamic of the issue.
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| 4 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 12:40
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I'm with Tree, though I was sure he was going to say, "apples and oranges"! :)
Now, if Columbia offered a full ride four-year madrassa program with military training and still prohibited ROTC, then we would have a story. If they let Ahmadinejad speak but prohibited any uniformed US military official from approaching a podium, then we'd have a story.
Furthermore, most schools in this country do not welcome employers who discriminate against people for their race, nationality, gender or sexual orientation. The US military makes themselves extremely clear, homosexuality will not be a part of the US military. That runs afoul of campus non-discrimination policies, as this Yale newspaper article argues. Until the US military allows gays and lesbians to serve without having to lie, then the ROTC should be limited to the Ava Maria and Patrick Henry Universities of the world.
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| 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 368192311
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 12:46
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You think Catholic universities should welcome ROTC, Zen?
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| 6 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 12:49
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Shouldn't someone with a whole lot more knowledge of Catholic canon and doctrine answer that?
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| 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 368192311
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 12:52
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I should add that the Solomon Act (which withholds all federal aid for colleges which boot out ROTCs from their campus) doesn't come into play, as there is no ROTC program there and the military has no plans to set up a program there. Ironically, the Solomon Act is probably what is preventing some campuses from adding ROTC to their campus mixes, because of the obvious strings attached.
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| 8 | walk
Dude
ID: 32928238
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 13:28
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Agree with Tree and SZ on this one...I think what we'd like to think is a good thing about our country is that we don't censor or prevent protest (unless it's the republican convention...aaar). Let him talk, let him answer tough questions, let them protest, let it all hang it. I am sure Bush is protested and not invited to talk in many a country these days, but he does (or does he?). I don't think allowing Mientkiewicz to speak on campus honors him or validates his views...it honors us. Allowing him to come to ground zero, that's another interesting thing. I can see not allowing him to do so as a security risk (all heck could break loose cos of the emotions that would run even higher), but my argument would even allow that (as long as security is okay and we don't have to spend a billion $ to maintain security, which would be necessary, so no ground zero for you...it'd be a transparent exploitative pub stunt anyway). Judgment calls...first cut, our American freedom of speech, second cut, intent and potential consequences.
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| 9 | walk
Dude
ID: 32928238
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 13:40
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"let it all hang out.". Nice Freudian slip there!
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| 10 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 22:54
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To quote Ahmadinejad today:
"I have suggested that I debate President Bush. I think that the United Nations provides a suitable forum for this. All of the heads of state can sit down. The world can watch for itself, independently. We will offer our proposals for resolving world problems and restoring peace, and allow everyone to think for themselves and decide which one is right."
Except for the simple fact that President Bush can't string together two coherent sentences without a prepared text(even then?), it sounds like a good idea.
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| 11 | WiddleAvi
ID: 25102616
Mon, Sep 24, 2007, 23:03
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PV - While that sounds great, Ahmadinejad is a true politician. You cannot have a real discussion with him and get real answers.
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| 12 | walk
ID: 2530286
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 06:17
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Dowd's Op-Ed, 9/26
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| 13 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 08:32
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Except for the simple fact that President Bush can't string together two coherent sentences without a prepared text(even then?), it sounds like a good idea.
Ahmadinejad would chew him up and spit him out. He would turn Bush into a laughing stock in front of the world.
What ever you think of Ahmadinejad he is a very talented public speaker and spin master. Bush, well let's just say he does better when ever his mouth isn't moving.
I'm repulsed by Ahmadinejad, don't get me wrong, but I've seen him speak enough that it's clear he would run circles around Bush.
The other point is on many issues Iran would have logic on it's side.
Why can a country with thousands of nuclear weapons tell a country with none they don't have the same right to own them? Particularly when the country with thousands just invaded a sovereign nation without provocation.
That's a hard sell in a debate.
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| 14 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 10:58
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What ever you think of Ahmadinejad he is a very talented public speaker and spin master.
Please.
I don't disagree he's a world better public speaker than Bush, but you know that says very, very little. His responses to tough questions at Columbia were pathetic. When asked about Iran's oppression and state-sponsored murder of gays, he explained that they don't have any such homosexual phenomenon in Iran! When asked whether he feels Israel has the right to exist, he responded with a question about the burden pushed upon the Palestinians following WW2. When pressed for a yes or no answer, he explained that the question is complex beyond a simple yes or no, but refused to elaborate.
Pathetically blatent denial of known oppression and murder and clumsily dancing around hard questions are not masterful spin.
His mostly respectful and even pleasent demeanor is certainly an asset and he doesn't appear to fumble his words much (tho that's hard to see through an interpreter anyway) so if you aren't hanging on what he is actually saying, he's not hard to watch, unlike Bush of course.
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| 15 | walk
Dude
ID: 32928238
Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:55
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Iran Invites Gaydar Inspectors
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| 16 | walk
ID: 2530286
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 09:44
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Blogging Ahmadenijad in Tehran
I found this very interesting...
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