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Subject: Black man convicted of killing white teen on L.I.
Posted by: Tree
- [3711332215] Sun, Dec 23, 2007, 08:09
The case of John White, since it started.
long story short - a dispute breaks out between some white high schoolers and a black friend of theirs named Aaron White, at a party.
the black kid leaves to avoid the situation escalating. they call him on his cell phone telling him they're coming for him, and eventually show up - drunk - at the door of his family's home.
the father John White - claiming he felt a lynching type of situation was about to happen - gets his pistol before he goes to the door, and while the next few moments are in dispute, one of the teens ends up shot and killed.
yesterday, the jury convicted White of manslaughter, and he's looking at 5 to 15 years in prison.
this is an otherwise hard working man, who had a reputation for repeatedly moving his family into better and better neighborhoods as their financial situation improved, to get his kid into better schools, and by all accounts, this was his "dream house".
i'm curious as to how the conversation will go in regards to this case, particularly reflected upon the just completed trial of Jay Clements' killer, and the poignant words of his father, and this boards small level of involvement in that case.
personally, while i feel for the family of the kid that was killed, i can't begrudge John White for his actions.
i don't like guns, but if there is ever a point to have one in your possession, a bunch of drunk teenagers showing up at your door in the middle of the night and threatening to kill your son sure as hell seems like that point. |
| 1 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sun, Dec 23, 2007, 10:11
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It bothers me when we attempt to deliberate cases here at this forum without the benefit of any testimony to go on. I have no simpathy for a bat weilding, racial epithet spewing mob of teenagers on this guy's front lawn but how do you know that a coroner or other expert didn't testify that that there was likely no threat to White based on the victim's wound or position or other findings at the crime scene?
I'm not taking sides on the case, just noting that we weren't in that courtroom and are privy to very little of the testimony and evidence presented. In some states, a threatening mob on your property might be legal justification for blowing every one of them away. In NYS, you're still responsible for your actions in that situation and the details of exactly what happened are important.
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| 2 | Tree
ID: 38731322
Sun, Dec 23, 2007, 11:14
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MITH -
i didn't provide every link to the case. however, other facts include that the boy was shot at very close range, in the face.
White testified that the boy lunged at the gun, and was shot accidently in the process. another witness said that the boy slapped the gun away.
if the kid was running away, and then shot, then hell yea, throw the book at the home owner. but if some drunk kid is on my front porch and threatening me and my family, you can be damned sure i'm going to defend myself and my people.
a homeowner should never be faced with the "will i go to jail if i defend my family?" scenario.
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| 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sun, Dec 23, 2007, 12:44
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It was the defendant who testified that the gun went off accidentially. According to news reports, the victim was shot at very close range in the cheek.
There are two side to every story and the CNN report you linked focuses on only one of them.
Who was the witness who testified that the victim lunged at the gun?
At such close range, why did White have to shoot the victim in the head?
Why are you so sure the teens who arrived at the White home were as aggressive as White claims?
According to testimony from at least one of the teens present the situation actually started off civilly."I remember the older man saying, 'If you don't get out of here, I'm going to shoot you,'" Serrano recalled. "And Dano said, 'You're not going to shoot me. If you're going to shoot me, shoot me."
After Cicciaro pushed John White's handgun away, White raised it to his face and shot him, Serrano testified. That article goes on to point out that it was after the shooting that the youths who called 911.
In fact, despite no one from the White family called 911 at all. Not John White, who (despite ample warning that the teens were on their way to his home) went down the driveway to the street to confront the teens with a loaded pistol. Not Aaron White, who joined his father with a shotgun. Not John White's wife, Sonya, despite her history of frequent 911 calls over petty domestic disturbances, even though she stayed in her home as her husband and son went out to confront these teens with loaded firearms.
I'm not arguing that the jury came the right conclusion. Just that there are an awful lot of details to the events that occurred in front of the White home that night that we don't know about.
In NYS, an angry group of teenagers in the street in front of your house is not a license to kill. The smart thing to do would have been for the Whites to lock the doors and call the police and if they felt it necessary, keep their firearms nearby. Instead, they went out to confront them and the result is almost certainly worse than if they'd done the smart, responsible thing.
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| 4 | holt
ID: 1811422312
Sun, Dec 23, 2007, 18:08
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I don't know the complete details on this case, but if people are making nuisances of themselves outside your house, then stay inside and call the cops. Let the cops take care of em. Especially if you're outnumbered.
A gun is nice to have when you really need one, but if you're inside, and they're outside, then you're life isn't being threatened. You can't kill someone just because they're an ass.
I remember a situation where a few teenagers were outside my house, being loud, acting like dicks (not sure why), throwing fireworks up by my house. It never crossed my mind to do some Charles Bronson impersonation and go out and confront them with a gun. That's just stupid. I called the cops, the cops took care of business. Dumb kids got in trouble for the fireworks. They all got the chance to live another day, and I didn't go to prison.
I feel for this guy, but you can't just shoot someone. Don't take a loaded gun into a situation unless you're ready to accept the consequences of it going off. If you need to protect a life, then ok.
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| 5 | bibA
ID: 3811101020
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 00:48
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I have to wonder about the media coverage, or lack thereof. Wouldn't Fox be all over this if it had been a situation of blacks allegedly threatening those in the home of a white family? Wouldn't they, and the NRA be saying that here is an example of a decent family man being able to defend his loved ones because he had armed himself, and was thus able to take appropriate action when he felt that he or his family was threatened?
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| 6 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 06:50
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Wouldn't Fox be all over this if it had been a situation of blacks allegedly threatening those in the home of a white family?
While I'm no fan of FNC, I've never known them to display the type of racial preference you accuse them of here.
here is an example of a decent family man being able to defend his loved ones because he had armed himself
IMO this doesn't quite make the ideal pro-home defense story because White did act irresponsibly. If the teens had tried to break into his home, it would be different. I'm not defending the conviction but a teenage boy is dead and another will have his father taken from his family for maybe the next decade or maybe more, all because of a series of apparently very stupid decisions made by almost everyone involved.
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| 7 | holt
ID: 1811422312
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 09:52
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Why should there be a bunch of media coverage? It's not like there was some kind of injustice. bibA, you're the one bringing race into this. why not consider just the facts of the events? what does Fox news have to do with any of this???
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| 8 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 10:01
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I think it's an interesting case, certainly worthy of local coverege and some national attention, too. For the record, from what I've seen I think Newsday's coverege has been pretty good..
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| 9 | Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 10:12
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Pretty boring case. Go to any databank of state appellate cases, do a search for "manslaughter" and you'll find dozens of cases with more interesting and controversial fact pattern.
I never get what it is that attracts the media to cover some stories and make them into a "cause celeb" and not pick up on others. They miss most of the really juicy stuff.
Also, MITH is exactly right when he implies that it's ridiculous to even try to argue the facts of a case like this based on what we get from the media. There's absolutely no way to understand whether the jury was "right" or "wrong"
It's prolly not a good policy to allow people to go into their yards and shoot teenagers; however, I tend to think that fools that threaten a man home and kin with baseball bats and racial epithets should not complain when the get what they deserve.
I doubt the guy serves much time.
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| 10 | weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 10:42
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I was flipping through channels yesterday and did see something on this case.
Dont remember which channel it was.
The interview with the defense attorney mentioned the "Lynch" word.
You can bet the race whores will be all over this as they are busy right now crafting their racial chants.
The news story said something about 10-15 years.
The sad part is if the youth had been black and Mr. White had actually been white the race whores would be claiming that manslaughter was too light a sentence for this kind of "excecution".
I agree with MITH that it is very difficult to "retry" these cases in the media when there will always be a bias when the selected facts are reported.
That being said it seems that the "I was in fear for my life and my families safety" doesnt hold water when you go to the end of the driveway to meet the mob.
I feel for Mr. White and the White family.
You want to feel safe and protected in your home and on your property.
But from the selected facts it seems that there should have been alternatives to handling the situation that would have ended without anyone being killed.
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| 11 | holt
ID: 1811422312
Mon, Dec 24, 2007, 10:53
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I tend to think that fools that threaten a man home and kin with baseball bats and racial epithets should not complain when the get what they deserve.
totally agree with that.
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