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Subject: "Fencing" operator spanked by oderous Plaintiffs
Posted by: Taxman
- SuperDude [029463114] Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 09:36
e-bay liable for encouraging trade in pirated and stolen goods.
Goods (my cost @ $5500.00) stolen from my business (Invisible Fence of Texas) including serialized IF Brand transmitters and receivers, a Stihl concrete cut-off saw, a "high-tech" wire break locator and a dedicated IF Brand receiver programmer were sold on e-bay. Specific identity proven by 8 of the 32 purchasers who responded and provided us with serial numbers. E-bay does not obtain nor require serial numbers of items carrying such, nor do they enforce trademark/trade name violations. MAKES MY DAY
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| 1 | Boldwin
ID: 225152912
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 10:32
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Make the burden of scrutenizing each item for sale too great and the fee will eat all the profit. Do we really want to kill off internet auction sites?
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| 2 | Frick
ID: 23117516
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 10:52
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So, if an action is to costly for a company, they are absolved of all liability?
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| 3 | Boxman
ID: 571114225
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 11:01
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This isn't like buying an item at the local department store. Ebay is a wild wild west type organization and people should know that going in. How could they or anyone have the resources to police all the posting activity?
I've had my own wonderful experience with them and PayPal where someone tried to steal my identity. Their immense amount of caring and effort to resolve the problem (read: sarcasm) resulted in my shutting down my Ebay and PayPal accounts and never re-opened them. Thank God my bank gave a s#it in that situation.
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| 4 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 11:04
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Why should e-Bay be liable? Are we going to start holding newspapers liable for classified ads that are for counterfeit or stolen merchandise?
e-Bay has a vested interest in making sure their customers don't get screwed over; that's just good customer service. But liability? Not in my opinion.
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| 5 | Perm Dude
ID: 525173010
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 11:17
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The do some trademark enforcement, but it is very spotty. And I know that they are working with police more and more (particularly on high priced items), but I had a similar situation as Boxman and I shut down my ebay & paypal accounts.
I think there should be some "reasonable standard" when it comes to knowing whether stolen goods are on their site for sale. Whether that is requiring serial numbers up front, or pausing an auction/one-price sale to verify serial numbers when asked by police or a robbery victim, I can't really say. But there should be some process. The lack of a process merely makes ebay the marketplace of choice for thieves.
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| 6 | bibA
ID: 38582315
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 13:08
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I have to agree with Baldwin on this one. The linked article wasn't even referring to serial numbers, but copyright infringment when sellers were auctioning fake or counterfeit "luxury" merchandise. Should every auction or sales site such as Craigslist, Yahoo etc., every site that acts as intermediaries b/t sellers and buyers, be responsible for the sheer masses of items dealt thru them on the internet?
With sites such as Ebay and Craigslist, at least victims have a chance to do some investigation on their own. And let the buyers beware when they do make purchases from unknown parties.
Ebay does have a fraud unit that will cooperate with law enforcement and individual citizens when it is brought to their attention that items being merchandised on their site may be stolen.
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| 7 | Myboyjack
ID: 8216923
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 13:11
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This decision has much more to do with French protectionism than any real concern with criminal activity.
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| 8 | bibA
ID: 38582315
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 13:14
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When someone is selling hot property at a swap meet and this is brought to the attention of law enforcement, and an investigation leads to recovered property and arrests of those selling the property, should the swap meet management and owners also be held responsible. What about items sold via want ads? Arrest the editors?
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| 9 | Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Mon, Jun 30, 2008, 14:41
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so this is a bit of a rant...but for 5 large, I feel entitled.
E-bay does have a fraud unit that will cooperate with law enforcement and individual citizens when it is brought to their attention that items being merchandised on their site may be stolen.
Not a true statement. "Usually", to quote Austin Police detective (name withheld), e-bay will provide info on seller and on buyers of specific transactions to law enforcement upon receipt of a written, detailed request. Individuals get nada..I've tried. Cease and Desist order obtained in a federal court by a US corporation did cause e-bay to disclose info about a specific seller auctioning trade marked serial numbered goods that were defective (had been replaced under warranty) acquired by theft from a computer recycler (although possibility dumpster diving surfaced).
Problem is that transactions over 6 months in age can not be accessed by e-bay members to determine if transaction involves their stolen property. E-bay does have a "trade name" protection program, but the owner (only the owner, not a licensee)of the trade mark has to police, by requesting e-bay the suspected infringors a letter and after a few days, e-bay can remove an item from auction. Not difficult to circumvent by earnest poachers.
Are we going to start holding newspapers liable for classified ads that are for counterfeit or stolen merchandise?
Yes... actually HELL YES!! Under something lovingly known as RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act). If known advertisers (read auctioneers) repeatedly sell goods which are stolen, violate trade mark laws or
are falsely advertised, an ethical publication and/or e-bay should not carry the subject ad/auction and seek prosecution/develop a commercial penalty. This can easily be accomplished by e-bay instituting a bonding requirement, giving e-bay rights to hit the bonding company for violations which in turn would cause the bonding company to police the auctioneers.
Allowing auctioning of property either/or stolen, a knock off or of a trade mark violation is profiteering in it's worst sense. E-bay is complicit in the illegal transaction, if not before hand, absolutely after the fact. Thieves that have no outlet to sell stolen goods will have less motivation to steal.
You pay for this outrage in the form of higher insurance rates.
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